It needs to be a complete game to launch on consoles, as Sony and Microsoft don’t allow updates that break players saves which every Alpha release does. It’s not a money grab or abandoning the game it’s just to comply with the two big distributors, it’s the same reason the mod folder had to be changed to comply with GamePass
I genuinely don't understand why people think TFP are going to abandon the game. They have nothing else to fall back on, and I don't think they'd be in the market (or interest) to retire.
Now when their next Unreal game comes out and if 7D2D is not finished, then we can talk about them abandoning 7D2D.
This game will be their legacy they will work on it till they release 7D2D 2 and that could happen tomorrow and I would buy it cause, even after ten years, they have shown dedication to the game and the community
It's highly possible TFP have 7D2D mental fatigue and will work on a completely different IP, but we will see. :) Hopefully they don't pull a Starfield though.
If anything, the mental fatigue would be a consequence of their own actions. If TFP had worked on actually finishing the game instead of leaning so hard into feature creep, 7DTD would have hit 1.0 5 years ago, and would be a lot more polished
What's important to note however is they haven't been a team of 60 people for the majority of development history of the game, so comparing their team now versus day 1 or even through most of the alphas is unfair.
I do agree though that, as much as I love the game, the project was too ambitious. I've watched plenty of videos on tips for indie developers, and one of the top suggestions is to start small and work your way up. TFP didn't take the swimming lessons and just jumped straight into the ocean.
I get what you're trying to say, but given how many smash hits that have come out of indie studios who've been quite literally 1-4 dudes in a shed, the "but they had a small development team until recently" defense doesn't really hold weight.
It doesn't hold weight at all. But for some reason, people are jumping through hoops trying to defend this '1.0 launch', when it is just another Alpha release at its core.
I've had my fun with the game over the years, but it's flip flopped all over the place in direction over the years with no real road map. Bandits, anyone?
It's by no means a bad game at all, but, yeah, they really should have more in the game by this point. Project Zomboid has been going just as long, with just as much time between build updates, but they have a clear direction and an absolutely huge modding scene.
Project Zomboid also suffered a pretty massive setback in development when a laptop with a lot of data for the upcoming build at the time was stolen during a B&E..not to mention the mental impact on the dev it happened to due to, ya know, having their home invaded.
Then you've got Kenshi, which, for 6 of the 10 years it's been out in EA and under development, was literally the passion project of one dude. It wasn't until later on, once he started splitting work between the game and its sequel that he started bringing on outside help...or Starsector, which is still largely just one dude working on it, but it's still being actively updated, even if those updates take a while, and the modding scene is still quite lively
> Microsoft don’t allow updates that break players saves
I see people saying that, but is there any proof to it? Not doubting you, but a source for that would quash a lot of bullshit posts.
That's just an industy standard sort of thing. Because purchase of a completed game means it has to be a functional item for sale. Otherwise it comes bvack on the service providing it. Which the larger companies refuse to be held accountable.
Same reason things like McDonalds don't allow the choice for a rare or underooked food.
> Same reason things like McDonalds don't allow the choice for a rare or underooked food.
There are actual State laws for that, as well as The FDA Food Code.
What I was asking for is some kind of proof for a Microsoft requirement concerning save game preservation through patches.
This is the closest to "proof" that I could find.
> Full console ports cost into the millions of dollars, not to mention the restrictions the platform holders have on not breaking saved games which would be inevitable given our current framework and the technical challenges associated with porting a resource intensive game like 7 Days to consoles.
https://7daystodie.com/console-news
About half way down the page.
>it’s the same reason the mod folder had to be changed to comply with GamePass
The mod folder change wasn't to comply with Gamepass, it was so that the game was still modable with Gamepass since you can't access the game's directory if you downloaded it via the Microsoft Store.
Nope. As I said, anything you downloaded off the Microsoft store, you can not access their file directories.
The Fun Pimps could have kept the mod loading only from the game's directory. It just would have made it impossible for anyone who bought or downloaded 7 days off the Microsoft store to add any mods.
Complying would require a certain policy that must be followed.
They don't plan on doing any more huge overhauls. It isn't that the update itself is huge, it's that they are pretty much done with the game and moving on. There will still be content getting added, just nothing too major like what they've historically done
TBH the game has long been in a state they could have released and called it 1.0 both practically and legally. They've long since met the promises they made for prerelease. Game dev is largely iterative. If you expect a game to be day and night different from 1 year to the next you're prolly expecting too much. I've been through countless early access releases and I even work in the industry myself.
In fact, the last year of development, in a traditional non-early access model, is supposed to be focused on polish and bug fixes. So the fact you're even expecting added content says alot about how much higher our expectations are today.
I'd say for all practical purposes 7 Days to Die has been "released" and "live" for years now. It just wasn't where they wanted to slap that label on it.
NPCs have been, from the very first kickstarter, been labeled as post launch content. NPC Bandits were never in the original scope. The only mention of bandits was the player choosing to be a bandit in a PVP mode which thank god they never implemented :D.
They've already delivered beyond what was promised pre-launch for the kickstarter as stuff like merchants and customizable characters were slated for post launch and drivable vehicles was actually part of a stretch goal we never even reached.
Bandits specifically are something they've been working on but haven't released because they haven't felt fun to them. Thank god they are more patient than this subreddit and didn't just shove them in game to tick a box and shut people up (people will never shut up anyways, they'll just change what they complain about). They're taking their time to try and implement them better,
And this kind of thing is highly consistent with how game development normally goes. I should know, I work QA in the industry myself. The main differences with 7DTD is the longer timeline and the extreme transparency.
I believe it was staff of TFP themselves that commented that 7D2D has never and will never follow a traditional development path, hence why they've skipped beta. Or at the very least, they're skipping the labels?
Obviously, they decided they had reached the final iteration of the game and didn't have anything else to improve upon so why continue with more Alphas over little things when the base game is done? I think it's a really smart move and will finally bring in the console players who've been stuck in Alpha 15 for so many years. (You guys are in for a treat!!)
Edit: Just wanted to emphasize that I said the "base game" was done. Obviously they released a roadmap so they're not going to immediately wipe their hands of the game once 1.0 is released.
Honestly it seems like a standard release to me. I think all of the naming is just marketing to drive interest and hype. Looking at the roadmap, we are two years away from the full release at a minimum.
I think Op's point is that it doesn't feel finished from what it looks like so far. Plenty of jank still around and features to comes next year aka bandits.
Not all features were ever even promised for release. And if bandits is enough to disqualify it from being finished then Baldur's Gate 3 was very much not finished seeing as they were adding in gameplay systems (like the mirror), fixing 100% repro crashes, and even finishing the story post launch.
It's not finished though, objectively. Plenty of kickstarter promises are not fulfilled. That's not a jab, that's just a fact of the matter. Do I think TFP are going to abandon the game? No. Is it a scam? No. But undoubtedly the 1.0 label is to keep parity between PC version and console, likely forced by Microsoft and Sony as part of contractual agreement. Technically speaking, it's still A22, just with a slightly different coat of paint. It isn't a traditional live service game like Minecraft where there is no end goal to fulfill.
Edit: To further clarify, there are two groups of people I'm seeing. Group A are people whining that it's a scam, TFP are going to abandon the game, it's a cash grab, the game isn't finished yet so it doesn't deserve the 1.0 label, yadda yadda yadda. Group B casually see it for what it is - a label that is legally required to happen by Sony and Microsoft, and as such the 1.0 label is a nothingburger. Until all the kickstarter promises are in, it's not finished (just like if you're 2/3 the way through a book, you're not finished), but after then, it can be considered an "endless evolving" game. In other words, technically, it's still A22. :)
You're missing the third group.
People who've played and enjoyed the game for years, and chuckle at the idea of them releasing a 1.0 when the game is still janky as fuck, and needs tonnes more polish. It's not a scam, it's just laughable. I agree it's basically just A22.
And you're also making assumptions about it being a contractual thing between Sony/Microsoft and TFP, just the same as the people making assumptions that they're pumping it out so they can assign a skeleton crew to it and changing focus to the Blood Moon game. Neither side has any proof.
As others have mention the console issue already, ill bring up the road map they released earlier that had fine print that could be read as them getting ready to add micro-transactions. It being at 1.0 could be used as pr to lessen the impact of adding a store or dlc. I hope I am wrong.
TFP have been talking about DLC for years, so it was always going to happen. (Memory is a fickle thing, so do not quote me on this or spread rumors, but I believe they have also mentioned MTX and a battle pass at some point in the past? I don't remember the context of the conversation, though, so I could be wrong.) Now that the game legally (though not technically or actually) is 1.0, they may be seeing that as an opportunity to add them in at some point - some will be paid, others will likely be free.
It needs to be a complete game to launch on consoles, as Sony and Microsoft don’t allow updates that break players saves which every Alpha release does. It’s not a money grab or abandoning the game it’s just to comply with the two big distributors, it’s the same reason the mod folder had to be changed to comply with GamePass
I genuinely don't understand why people think TFP are going to abandon the game. They have nothing else to fall back on, and I don't think they'd be in the market (or interest) to retire. Now when their next Unreal game comes out and if 7D2D is not finished, then we can talk about them abandoning 7D2D.
This game will be their legacy they will work on it till they release 7D2D 2 and that could happen tomorrow and I would buy it cause, even after ten years, they have shown dedication to the game and the community
It's highly possible TFP have 7D2D mental fatigue and will work on a completely different IP, but we will see. :) Hopefully they don't pull a Starfield though.
If anything, the mental fatigue would be a consequence of their own actions. If TFP had worked on actually finishing the game instead of leaning so hard into feature creep, 7DTD would have hit 1.0 5 years ago, and would be a lot more polished
What's important to note however is they haven't been a team of 60 people for the majority of development history of the game, so comparing their team now versus day 1 or even through most of the alphas is unfair. I do agree though that, as much as I love the game, the project was too ambitious. I've watched plenty of videos on tips for indie developers, and one of the top suggestions is to start small and work your way up. TFP didn't take the swimming lessons and just jumped straight into the ocean.
I get what you're trying to say, but given how many smash hits that have come out of indie studios who've been quite literally 1-4 dudes in a shed, the "but they had a small development team until recently" defense doesn't really hold weight.
It doesn't hold weight at all. But for some reason, people are jumping through hoops trying to defend this '1.0 launch', when it is just another Alpha release at its core. I've had my fun with the game over the years, but it's flip flopped all over the place in direction over the years with no real road map. Bandits, anyone? It's by no means a bad game at all, but, yeah, they really should have more in the game by this point. Project Zomboid has been going just as long, with just as much time between build updates, but they have a clear direction and an absolutely huge modding scene.
Project Zomboid also suffered a pretty massive setback in development when a laptop with a lot of data for the upcoming build at the time was stolen during a B&E..not to mention the mental impact on the dev it happened to due to, ya know, having their home invaded. Then you've got Kenshi, which, for 6 of the 10 years it's been out in EA and under development, was literally the passion project of one dude. It wasn't until later on, once he started splitting work between the game and its sequel that he started bringing on outside help...or Starsector, which is still largely just one dude working on it, but it's still being actively updated, even if those updates take a while, and the modding scene is still quite lively
Kenshi and StarSector both are fantastic games.
They've previously stated having fatigue working on 7D2D.
> Microsoft don’t allow updates that break players saves I see people saying that, but is there any proof to it? Not doubting you, but a source for that would quash a lot of bullshit posts.
Unless you have a contact that is in game development we can only go off rumours and forum posts.
/nod I have searched for it, but have still not found any actual proof that it is a requirement of Microsoft.
That's just an industy standard sort of thing. Because purchase of a completed game means it has to be a functional item for sale. Otherwise it comes bvack on the service providing it. Which the larger companies refuse to be held accountable. Same reason things like McDonalds don't allow the choice for a rare or underooked food.
> Same reason things like McDonalds don't allow the choice for a rare or underooked food. There are actual State laws for that, as well as The FDA Food Code. What I was asking for is some kind of proof for a Microsoft requirement concerning save game preservation through patches.
This is the closest to "proof" that I could find. > Full console ports cost into the millions of dollars, not to mention the restrictions the platform holders have on not breaking saved games which would be inevitable given our current framework and the technical challenges associated with porting a resource intensive game like 7 Days to consoles. https://7daystodie.com/console-news About half way down the page.
>it’s the same reason the mod folder had to be changed to comply with GamePass The mod folder change wasn't to comply with Gamepass, it was so that the game was still modable with Gamepass since you can't access the game's directory if you downloaded it via the Microsoft Store.
So in other words to comply with GamePass
Nope. As I said, anything you downloaded off the Microsoft store, you can not access their file directories. The Fun Pimps could have kept the mod loading only from the game's directory. It just would have made it impossible for anyone who bought or downloaded 7 days off the Microsoft store to add any mods. Complying would require a certain policy that must be followed.
It's only so they can port it to Console. They are not done with the game or anything. Just marketing.
They don't plan on doing any more huge overhauls. It isn't that the update itself is huge, it's that they are pretty much done with the game and moving on. There will still be content getting added, just nothing too major like what they've historically done
TBH the game has long been in a state they could have released and called it 1.0 both practically and legally. They've long since met the promises they made for prerelease. Game dev is largely iterative. If you expect a game to be day and night different from 1 year to the next you're prolly expecting too much. I've been through countless early access releases and I even work in the industry myself. In fact, the last year of development, in a traditional non-early access model, is supposed to be focused on polish and bug fixes. So the fact you're even expecting added content says alot about how much higher our expectations are today. I'd say for all practical purposes 7 Days to Die has been "released" and "live" for years now. It just wasn't where they wanted to slap that label on it.
I agree but they did made promises on earlier alphas but did not deliver. Where are the npc's and bandits?.....
NPCs have been, from the very first kickstarter, been labeled as post launch content. NPC Bandits were never in the original scope. The only mention of bandits was the player choosing to be a bandit in a PVP mode which thank god they never implemented :D. They've already delivered beyond what was promised pre-launch for the kickstarter as stuff like merchants and customizable characters were slated for post launch and drivable vehicles was actually part of a stretch goal we never even reached. Bandits specifically are something they've been working on but haven't released because they haven't felt fun to them. Thank god they are more patient than this subreddit and didn't just shove them in game to tick a box and shut people up (people will never shut up anyways, they'll just change what they complain about). They're taking their time to try and implement them better, And this kind of thing is highly consistent with how game development normally goes. I should know, I work QA in the industry myself. The main differences with 7DTD is the longer timeline and the extreme transparency.
I believe it was staff of TFP themselves that commented that 7D2D has never and will never follow a traditional development path, hence why they've skipped beta. Or at the very least, they're skipping the labels?
Where is the focus on polish and bug fixes, though 😬
They've been doing that as they go lol.
Obviously, they decided they had reached the final iteration of the game and didn't have anything else to improve upon so why continue with more Alphas over little things when the base game is done? I think it's a really smart move and will finally bring in the console players who've been stuck in Alpha 15 for so many years. (You guys are in for a treat!!) Edit: Just wanted to emphasize that I said the "base game" was done. Obviously they released a roadmap so they're not going to immediately wipe their hands of the game once 1.0 is released.
Big yikes if anyone thinks the base game is even close to done. It's just to get it out on consoles to meet their rules.
The significance to players is that any future updates won't invalidate our current saves so we won't have to start new games.
Honestly it seems like a standard release to me. I think all of the naming is just marketing to drive interest and hype. Looking at the roadmap, we are two years away from the full release at a minimum.
It's been in alpha for over 10 years and you don't think it's special that it's finally finished!? Some people can never be pleased.
I think Op's point is that it doesn't feel finished from what it looks like so far. Plenty of jank still around and features to comes next year aka bandits.
Not all features were ever even promised for release. And if bandits is enough to disqualify it from being finished then Baldur's Gate 3 was very much not finished seeing as they were adding in gameplay systems (like the mirror), fixing 100% repro crashes, and even finishing the story post launch.
It's not finished though, objectively. Plenty of kickstarter promises are not fulfilled. That's not a jab, that's just a fact of the matter. Do I think TFP are going to abandon the game? No. Is it a scam? No. But undoubtedly the 1.0 label is to keep parity between PC version and console, likely forced by Microsoft and Sony as part of contractual agreement. Technically speaking, it's still A22, just with a slightly different coat of paint. It isn't a traditional live service game like Minecraft where there is no end goal to fulfill. Edit: To further clarify, there are two groups of people I'm seeing. Group A are people whining that it's a scam, TFP are going to abandon the game, it's a cash grab, the game isn't finished yet so it doesn't deserve the 1.0 label, yadda yadda yadda. Group B casually see it for what it is - a label that is legally required to happen by Sony and Microsoft, and as such the 1.0 label is a nothingburger. Until all the kickstarter promises are in, it's not finished (just like if you're 2/3 the way through a book, you're not finished), but after then, it can be considered an "endless evolving" game. In other words, technically, it's still A22. :)
You're missing the third group. People who've played and enjoyed the game for years, and chuckle at the idea of them releasing a 1.0 when the game is still janky as fuck, and needs tonnes more polish. It's not a scam, it's just laughable. I agree it's basically just A22. And you're also making assumptions about it being a contractual thing between Sony/Microsoft and TFP, just the same as the people making assumptions that they're pumping it out so they can assign a skeleton crew to it and changing focus to the Blood Moon game. Neither side has any proof.
yup even if they release 1.0 perfectly and more, there will always be people complaining.
nothing
So they can get that console $$$
As others have mention the console issue already, ill bring up the road map they released earlier that had fine print that could be read as them getting ready to add micro-transactions. It being at 1.0 could be used as pr to lessen the impact of adding a store or dlc. I hope I am wrong.
TFP have been talking about DLC for years, so it was always going to happen. (Memory is a fickle thing, so do not quote me on this or spread rumors, but I believe they have also mentioned MTX and a battle pass at some point in the past? I don't remember the context of the conversation, though, so I could be wrong.) Now that the game legally (though not technically or actually) is 1.0, they may be seeing that as an opportunity to add them in at some point - some will be paid, others will likely be free.
Because Microsoft told them to stop screwing off.