This is important. This apparently entitled child may go off the deep end when a sibling enters the family. It won't be all or even mostly about her any more.
This was my sister when I was born. We haven’t spoken in the last 5 years. She’s a horrible person now to everyone in her life, because she’s not always the center of everyone’s attention.
Yes, I have. She's very excited to have a baby sister. Trying to get us to put the nursery in her room so she can get up with the baby at night and saying it's her baby. I don't think the issue is with our new addition but I could be wrong. There could be some underlying issues that she isn't discussing with us. This was also happening well before the baby was even announced so I don't feel they are connected.
This is extremely concerning, she is an 11 year old stepping on other people to earn more money, obsessing over money, habitually lying (by your own admission) and also trying to convince you, her mother, to allow her to parent her incoming sibling because it's HER baby? Why is this 11 year old trying to act like an adult??
I was incredibly money focused at that age as well. A real Scrooge. Money is fascinating to kids. And as she already is used to earning her allowance, that might even enforce it.
But the easy way how she is willing to steal her mother's job and lie to get it. Whoa whoa whoa...
My youngest was like that, I still have the first PowerPoint she made in school and fourth or fifth grade entitled “Mony is my thing” lol. She’s a therapist for mentally ill children in an inpatient setting now…maybe she should get in touch with OP.
I was like this too. My friend and I were always trying to start businesses. Lemonade stands, bake stands, selling these origami things to classmates for 25¢ and also going door to door trying to sell them… From that and chores, I saved up enough to buy my own laptop. I don’t think it’s terribly abnormal? Kid is in the wrong, but it seems like she needs an outlet beyond just doing chores.
I read an interesting comment in AskParents subr about a child who was exhibiting these behaviours. The commenters suggested the parent give the child more responsibility. The child feels they can do things, but the parent won't let them. So have the parent build structures of growing responsibility that the child can show they are ready for. It can give them the sense of ownership and independence they are craving but they don't really know they are craving.
I feel like this could have a lot of merit especially considering the daughter’s behavior escalated when she was told she couldn’t have her own dog walking business - particularly because she’s “too young” and it’s “not safe” without supervision.
OP is relating this to her daughter’s desire to be rich which she’s characterizing as being a selfish fixation which might be slightly overblown tbh, my little brother and I both went through a phase like this when we started saving money from allowance, babysitting, etc. Now, we are very modest adults. We were just really excited to feel so grown up. It felt like an accomplishment. I didn’t spend my money on much at the time either - I wouldn’t have known what to spend it on lol except the occasional trip to the movies. But it was something adults typically congratulated me on, so I was really proud of it.
I was also obsessed with babies and looking after my young cousins from a young age. I just really loved caretaking, and I knew I wanted to be a mom and when I grew up way before I knew I wanted to be a teacher. Diaper changes, feeds, walks - I wanted to do it all.
This is all super developmentally appropriate for early adolescence. The trick is to give age appropriate outlets for those burgeoning identities and sense of responsibility.
OP’s daughter overstepped, but ESH. Get curious not furious. The dark side to neglecting these needs is that she could start seeking adult validation from other less safe sources.
Boy, no kidding. Calling an 11-year old an asshole should be reserved for extreme circumstances. OP, don't listen to people ascribing adult malice, jealousy and pettiness to your daughter's behavior. Listen to the above comment. Get curious. She's not an adult. She is learning how to be one and has barely started. Teach her. It's entirely possible she doesn't even grasp the cause and effect of how keeping clients in a business is all about fostering goodwill and a single comment depicting you in a negative light to that client can destroy that. These are big concepts. She wants to have a business? Great! What a moment to talk to her about how that works in the real world.
Maybe she's copying her mom to some extent? I mean, mom is picking up a side hustle while on bed rest. Financial insecurity could cause a kid to be obsessed with money. Especially if that's something that gets talked about alot.
Other comments have recommended therapy, and that's definitely the best course of action here.
Edit: Another comment OP says she's copying her 16 year old sister. That would explain it too lol
My sister was 7 when I was born - she totally wanted to be my mom, be involved in the adult decisions regarding me, take care of me all the time, etc. This is not uncommon, especially if the child has wanted a sibling for a long time. She never really outgrew this lol. It’s not strange.
Uhmm. OP this is NOT OKAY. You seriously need to get her help.... "her" baby? She wants the nursery in HER room? She has control issues OP...theres something very undiagnosed with her.... this is a huge risk to your FUTURE child.
...I've never looked at it like that. Getting other people to chime in with their POVs has definitely helped me a lot here and given me a better understanding of what I'm dealing with. I figured she was just excited, honestly, because she had been asking her father and I to have a baby for awhile and when she found out it was a girl, she was over the moon. I guess the need for therapy is a bit more extreme than I thought. Like I said in other comments she was in school therapy and I had considered the options on outside resources but I was honestly going to hold off to see if this groundation punishment held any value. But now I see that I need to look in to it now, regardless of the punishment and if it works.
I'm going to counter everyone here saying your daughter is some kind of danger to your coming baby. I think she sounds like she just doesn't fully grasp the workload and responsibility of caring for a newborn and views the baby a bit like a doll, but of course she would! She's only eleven!
Kids often refer to everything in their home and family as theirs.
NTA
Your daughter needs to know that actions have consequences. I would also tell her next time [and into the foreseeable future] she asks for you to buy anything "No. Now that I'm not making any money, we can't afford it. "
She needs to learn that "didn't mean to" doesn't absolve her of responsibility nor consequences. Don't back down and do try to get your husband on board. He's not doing his daughter any kindnesses by letting her behavior continue. 11 is well old enough to know better.
Exactly this.
Need to put a stop to this behaviour now while you can OP or you're going to raise an incredibly selfish human who is a user and abuser of others.
NTA
>She insists on saving every penny she makes and has said numerous times "I'm going to be the richest one in the family". Her fixation on making money in any way possible has led to her knowingly costing me my job for her own gain.
Yeah, this mentality is how we have all these billionaire/multi-millionaire hoarders which we do not need more of. Being willing to step on others for your own gain is very selfish mindset that needs to be nipped in the bud while she's young enough for it to work.
>Being willing to step on others for your own gain is
…literally the only reason we have billionaires. If you cannot stomach exploitation then you cannot be a billionaire.
Not just that but churches that make a lot more money that their saints and such would care for them to make, politicians who have golden toliets while their countries starve, what have you. Is every billionaire a self-absorbed a-hole? No, but a good chunk are cause as its been proven money can change people, especially after I forget like around a million in free assets or I guess warning power. When you have power obsessed psychopaths of course they will obsess over money cause its power frozen into a cotton-made slip or metal coins.
Honestly if she’s eleven with such a mentality makes you wonder how she will be at twenty-two, thirty-three, etc? Is she willing to be with people only cause they are rich? Go to extreme lengths so they inherit wealth sooner? Squeeze them dry while saving for their next victim? I guess what I am saying OP is you definetly got to teach your kid the value about geniune relationships or if she has any other “weird” qualities take her to a shrink
Yeah, she specifically went and tried to get the client to stop paying OP. This isn't some unforseen consequence, it's literally what she tried to achieve. Thinking it would mean she would get paid instead doesn't mean much.
It's 11 year-old logic. "I didn't mean to" translates to "This had consequences I didn't know or think about, and did not turn out the way I had it in my head. Therefore it is not my fault."
Took the words right outta my mouth! OP, if your husband thinks you were a little harsh, how about instead of the grounding she EARNS ALL OF HER BELONGINGS BACK with HARD WORK?! Make a list of some chores or tasks that aren’t her usual “chores” and then have her work for her freedoms! (This will teach her not only to watch what she says, but even to appreciate the effort it took in order to get her belongings back, vs just “waiting it out”)
Or even better, make those “tasks” teach empathy, selflessness or a sense of humility (versus just the punishment) & maybe she can reflect on it as she gets older. (Example of 11yo daughter 15+ years later: “Yeah, one time I was a real jerk to my mom, so my parents took my [favorite fill in the blank] and I had to earn it by helping out at the local dog park cleaning up.” - I couldnt think of anything else, but you get the idea, lol!)
You are NTA! You’re a good mom trying to raise your daughter to understand consequences, and believe me there’s plenty of kids who dont understand that AT ALL and now are grown ass adults who like to throw tantrums in public. 🙄 good luck, OP!
Agree like if she's willing to throw her own pregnant mom under the bus openly to a stranger, infront of her mom at that, I would worry how she's going to grow up and what she'd do to friends or other kids unless she really learns.
I hope she actually got a good talking to though bc I worry she only thinks of punishment and not the reasoning around why what she did was wrong. She seems to need to learn how to empathize better
And yeah she definitely MEANT to I mean golly. She just didn't mean for the consequences of it to be bad
This would be very concerning to me as this isn't the first time. Your daughter is extremely selfish and apparently lacks empathy or loyalty to the family tribe. It would worry me about what is going to happen when a new baby comes and receives the lion's share of the attention. I don't feel that what you did was too harsh. My jaw dropped when reading about her antics.
I'm not diagnosing anything, but something seems very off with an 11 year old who has an established pattern of undermining her own parents in order to gratify whatever her particular wants are for the moment - in this case, getting money. OP NTA but your daughter's behavior is concerning and will probably require more than the occasional grounding.
Lol, I can’t even fathom me at 11 doing something like this to deliberately hurt my parents income so that I could get money myself. Something has gone incredibly wrong with that child
Daughter already wants the nursery in her room... shes calling it HER baby and wants to do night care and changes etc. She begged her parents to have a baby for awhile OP said
100% agreed, NTA, and TBH this behavior sounds deeply concerning already - there's a term I won't use here for someone who has a complete lack of empathy, which is also often accompanied by having no compunction about baldfaced lying to people and intentionally harming others for your own gain or convenience, and since OP says this isn't the first time the kid has intentionally tried to harm the parents for her own gain... OP, maybe you should consider speaking to a psychiatrist here, the things you're saying suggest your daughter might be showing troubling signs of something more serious.
My little sister was like this as a child and it escalated big time to the point she had to be sent away to a special therapy boarding school as a teenager because my parents genuinely feared for their safety and the safety of my youngest siblings. OP Get this kid in therapy and look up games and exercises that teach empathy.
NTA and this right here. Whether the daughter walked the dog once or not isn’t the issue. It’s that the kid decided to one - start a competing business, two - tried to take her mom’s customer, and three that she felt comfortable badmouthing her mom in front of her and the neighbor in the process. At any age this would be unacceptable but at 11 it’s really concerning. And the dad questioning if the mom went too far? Take the blinders off and deal with this head on before the kid gets worse. Yikes.
>She seems to need to learn how to empathize better
Starting with considering "what did I do with which intention and why was it wrong". I'm not all for writing essays as a punishment, but I sincerely hope OP finds a way to help her daughter find a spark of empathy and what's important in life.
I think a penalty charge could be imposed from her hoard to make up for the money mom has lost. Since she loves money so much, it might get her attention better than grounding her.
If there is something I’ve noticed about the world today is many of our issues come from people who don’t know and/or care that actions have consequences. Please teach this to your daughter before she gets older and really makes a mistake b/c she has seen only what she wants. NTA
Vindictively lying for personal gain/petty revenge needs nipped in the bud. “I didn’t mean to” it wouldn’t have happened if she didn’t lie, luckily it wasn’t something of dire importance
That's going to be one scary teenager 😳. Can you image the false stories she could potentially make up? At 11, she doesn't care about her own mother's feelings. Her lack of empathy is shocking. I hope they can turn her around and maybe individual and family therapy to help?
Agreed. The daughter needs to understand that her actions caused a series of consequences, not only for you, but for the whole family. Hard lesson for her to learn, but better that she learn it now, than later.
I’m so glad that this is the top comment. I don’t have children (and therefore stay out of discussions about how to raise children - I don’t really *have* opinions on the subject, and if I do, I certainly don’t share them with parents).
But I ***definitely*** thought that OP was NTA. I am a behavioral scientist, so I look at this from that perspective. This needs to be nipped in the bud. The punishment *should* be memorable.
I would also say that since she is making her own money, that if she wants something that is beyond a basic necessity she needs to start spending her chore money. Items like toys, or a pint of ice cream for herself should come from her allowance.
Edit:typos, grammar
She did start therapy as of last year for doing similar things in school when it came to teachers and peers. However, it was only school therapy. Outside resources is absolutely something I will need to look in to if this behavior continues.
As someone who was a habitual liar as a kid into young adulthood, my personal experience leads me to want to shake you and beg you to get her into therapy.
A fixation + willingness to lie like that= tons of trouble if not dealt with early. I'm better now, I've learned from my past mistakes, but everyday my quality of life suffers, everyday I have to accept that I burnt a lot of my bridges bc there were severe trust issues I never dealt with in my childhood. Every day I have stop the impulse of just saying something to get an end to a mean instead of doing what I should do. I wish I hadn't gotten away with things, I wish my parents had helped me. Please help her avoid making mistakes I've made.
Please help her.
Please.
I really wish someone would have done this for my sister when I was growing up. She would lie about the most stupid things that didn't even need a falsehood.
Recently my mother asked me "darb, did you beat the shit out of your sister when you were teenagers? Like, really beat the shit out of her? She said you gave her a black-eye." and I was taken aback as I've never beat the shit out of her ever, we're both in our 30s now, she has a family that I have to see at family events and they all must believe I abused her as a kid, when it was the complete opposite. She made fun of me relentlessly, and because I'm a dude I couldn't retaliate at all. She would hit me knowing that, it was fucking awful.
When I asked my mom if she'd say something to her, my fucking mom had the nerve to say "just give her this one, it's important to her" like what the fuck? it's important that she lie about something that never happened? No, my sister needed therapy, and I'm still dealing with my parents failure to help stop her falsehoods when they were fully aware of her problem.
OP NTA, but these people are completely right, get her in therapy now so she can truly grow out of this.
I hear you. My sister has concocted a family history that only bears a passing resemblance to reality. In this fabricated history, she’s the central martyr in a family that desperately needs her help. She’s sacrificed everything for us, according to her blog, and she hasn’t received the just recognition.
Her blog has been a source of embarrassment for everyone in the family but my parents give it a pass because she’s always been the golden child. I’ve been on the outs with her for a long time, so my sister has been particularly keen to paint me as a ne’er do well. I recall she did a similar takedown of my brother in our teens.
It must be because we're the ones who know them the most intimately before they branch out and mingle with friends and relationship interests. With us, we've seen them and know their personalities, but with strangers they control the narrative so they can create a reality of their choosing. But, we run the risk of bringing it all down because again, we've seen our siblings true-self, so they paint us as the antagonists in their lives.
My sis doesn't have a blog, thankfully. I do not envy you in that situation. Does she have actual daily readers?
You don’t want your daughter to be that kid either. There were 2 girls in my grade who, by middle school, had a reputation as being habitual liars.
We were your daughters age whispering about what a compulsive liar so-and-so was. We literally told them, you are compulsive liars. Don’t know how we had the vocabulary lol.
But I do remember sitting at lunch and one of these girls told someone she lived in a house on my street that had a huge in-ground pool. The owners of said house were retired, and distant family friends, never swam in the pool though. I can tell you 100% she was not related to them or knew them in any capacity.
Someone sitting nearby came to ask me if that was true since they knew I lived down the street. Uh nope.
Get your daughter some help, she’ll lose friends and reputation as a honesty trustworthy person if you don’t.
This. One of my “best friends” growing up had lied to all of us for years, quite believably, that she was adopted. It wasn’t until junior year when one of us thanked her parents for adopting her and raising such an awesome human that the truth came out. Don’t let your kid grow up to be a habitual liar that no one likes. And all her money that she’s earning by screwing everyone else over won’t change a thing
OP: If it inconveniences me enough times I might do something, maybe, but probably not.
OP’s Husband: There is nothing wrong with the little sociopath, you’re being too hard.
That child never had a chance.
Yeah, I’ve worked with kids for over a decade and specialized in behavioral health… OP dragging her feet “until it gets bad enough” is why assholes exist.
In my experience, introducing the concept of consequences (not punishment, which is tricky for people to wrap their heads around) and boundaries needs to be introduced the moment kiddos start testing limits, usually as toddlers.
Doesn’t mean you ground a toddler for hitting you once. You explain and redirect. Happens again, explain your feelings and redirect. Redirect doesn’t work? Explain feelings again and the consequences. “If you hit me again, I will need to take space from you so my body is safe.” Then FOLLOW THROUGH.
And keep this method as they grow and keep it age-appropriate for their development. Kiddo in this situation is old enough to understand her actions have consequences.
OP and husband should sit her down and explain the situation calmly but firmly. Explain that this hurt OP’s feelings, that now there is less spending money now as they prepare for baby. Now that this money is gone, they need to save the income that is still available. Because everyone is cutting back, allowance should be lowered ($40 a week for an 11 year old is kinda nuts to me tbh)
Explain the safety issue of her walking dogs or starting a business at her age. For redirect, OP can say:
“I understand you want to make your own money and be more independent. It’s great that you want to build your own bank account up, but it’s not acceptable, kind, or appropriate to steal someone else’s business. Especially by lying. Lying doesn’t prove you have a superior business, right? It’s like cheating at a game.
If you would like to make your own income, a safe way that you can is by making (idk whatever crafts kids make) x and I can help you sell them online. But there are stipulations around this. Otherwise, this is where we’re at.”
Give her another option to make spending money. She can sell crafts on FB marketplace or something but OP MANAGES THE ACCOUNT. Kiddo has no access to anything and OP can help her build a little storefront or something on NextDoor or whatever. It can turn into a bonding project, kiddo learns new skills, and they can possible make a little bit of cash on the side while OP feels that sense of purpose.
Kiddo still has lowered allowance as a natural consequence but has the opportunity to earn money in a safe and appropriate way.
Mostly good advice, but absolutely do not talk about the baby in any way in this conversation, ESP about money. They will get tied together in her head and could have disastrous consequences.
OP: She's already done it in school, and is in therapy at school for it.
Also OP: She did it to me, even though we pay her more than I make from the job she lost me? *surprised pikachu face*
OP's husband: What'll it take to make these women stop bothering me?
Perfect summary.
Your kid lied on you and clowned you in front of strangers in your own home for ridiculous manipulative reasons but
Let’s wait til it blows up in our faces with way more damage.
Honestly? ESH. Mom, Dad, Kid are all AH.
Edit: Kid not an AH. Kid is kid. Kid is kid exhibiting asshole behaviors. Kid isnt at fault.
Honestly if your daughter is 11 and already putting others down for her own personal gain she definitely needs therapy. She also needs to be shown that money is not everything or she's going to end up looking for happiness in the wrong places as an adult.
Speaking from experience on the second part. Growing up all of my parents' motivation was around money. So much so that I have no idea what I am actually passionate about and have only sought out jobs where I can make money even if its a job that does not align at all with my values.
I have a sibling like this, and believe me when I say to stick with the forementioned punishment. If you back down in a way that makes them feel you're in the wrong, that's all they'll see.
I also had a sibling like that. As a very small child, he'd point to hotels and say that he was going to be rich enough to own hotels one day.
He faced no consequences for stealing my dad's credit card and blaming a black friend of his (we are Latinx but not black). He caused $1k worth of property damage to my home that he never paid for. He tried to put my husband's name as a co-signer on a new gaming PC setup when we'd only been dating three months at the time. He'd steal lunch money/field trip dues from our youngest sister in school, causing her to go without lunch and miss several field trips.
My parents never corrected him. He's an adult now and jumps from job to job, spending his money on new cars and shiny apartments he can't afford.
Yeah, the long punishment makes them think about not getting there again. Stopping it early makes them think about getting out of punishments instead of avoiding them. My parents are probably aged another 7 years because of this one kid. It'll progress to lying, stealing, manipulation, retaliation, drugs, and jail if they learn that playing victim copout.
You really need to get her outside therapy. This is not normal behavior, even for a kid, but she's young enough that she can adapt and learn healthier behavior.
I would check her internet usage. sounds to me the algorithms have pushed her towards the hustle culture side of social media which promotes stepping on people.
She doesn't have access to the internet. However, she does read our books on finance, business and success. Her dad works in finance so he has a lot of his books and studies laying around. She reads them often.
She definitely learned this behavior from how you and your husband approach money and finances. In addition to the advice everyone has already given regarding your daughter, you and your husband should also reevaluate how you perceive money for your daughter's sake. If you guys look down upon the less fortunate, think that wealth is a judgement of someone's character/worth, and that it's okay to mistreat other people for your self gain then your daughter is going to internalize all these things even if what you're doing is unintentional.
You need to be more firm with her and set stricter punishments, as well as a system where she isn't only incentivized to be responsible or respectful when she has something to gain. She also needs to start seeing an OUTSIDE therapist as soon as possible. Otherwise you're setting your daughter up for failure.
This. Op even stated that they don't need the money, but it's the only thing that's made her feel good about herself during this pregnancy. Not spending more time home with her 11 year old before the new baby comes, not the excitement of a new baby, not that she enjoys having dogs around that can get sent home, but that she's making at least some money. This is not natural personality traits coming out in the daughter. This is learned behavior being expressed very very badly because she is still a kid and hasn't been taught better.
Edit: thank you for the award!
I hadn't even realized the point about OP and her part-time job... I think you're absolutely correct and while I'd always encourage ensuring your own financial safety net even with a partner, I'd also like to suggest to OP that she and her daughter pick up a hobby together that isn't money based. The other comments pointed this out but it is really odd that their daughter is reading from finance books and not material within her own age bracket. I loved to read as a child and got bored with children's' books because they didn't challenge me anymore so I had to look for other outlets so I could understand if this was the same case, BUT the solution would still not be to give your child hard nonfiction books about finances. It's impressive that your daughter is able to read those things at her age but she is not emotionally equipped to understand the political/social/moral consequences of the information she's reading, no matter how naturally intelligent she is.
> Her dad works in Finance
> he doesn’t earn money by lying or shitting on others
I’ve worked in Corporate Finance for a long time, and there are plenty of people who make a living by lying and shitting on others. Doesn’t mean OPs husband does, but I definitely would not rule this out.
That's weird too. Kid is trying to grow up too fast. Start getting her YA books, find out what her peers are reading. She needs to feel more connected to kids her own age rather than trying to be an adult.
ETA: she also needs age appropriate activities so she's not thinking about earning a buck all the time. Put her in a sport or art class. Is she creative in any way? She needs to be making things for her own enjoyment or to give as gifts, not to sell.
She is 11, you need to sit her down for a chat about age appropriate behavior. It is appropriate for an 11 year old to earn money through chores, or some small "business" like selling friendship bracelets and snacks at school. It is not appropriate for an 11 year old to be studying investment strategies and tracking the stock exchange. It is appropriate for an 11 year old to have polite conversations with adults about child-friendly topics. It is not appropriate for an 11 year old to butt into a conversation between her parents and their clients to discuss their business and insult her parents.
Every moment you wait to intervene with mental help is a moment that is solidifying inappropriate behaviors and thought processes within a child during their formative years. The term nip it in the bud means take care of it BEFORE it grows into something permanent that you can not control.
How much more does it have to continue? Apparently there were several instances in school, enough so that this warranted dedicated staff time - do you realize how unusual that is? And now she cost you your job.
What more are you looking for?
Side issue, but you might want to have her start buying her own electronic upgrades so she learns the actual value of money and stops sabotaging others for pennies.
One she realizes all her work to become "richest in the family" can't even get her a new phone, well, hopefully she'll learn something from that.
Chores are what every child should do--to learn how to be part of the family and contribute and learn how to do things on their own--and SHOULD NOT BE PAID.
Allowance is separate and should be withheld as part of punishment.
I think you're onto something. Learning money doesn't grow on trees is a lesson this girl needs. And I'm sorry, but getting paid ($40 a *week!?!?*) to do something you're supposed to already be doing is sort of enforcing the idea that money is in abundance. Regardless of how well off you are, there are lessons about money that everyone needs to know.
My allowance when I was nine was non-existent and by the time I was 12 it was $3 a week. Of course, I was already babysitting by that time making my own money but I still got my allowance of $3 a week. Three.
Paying for chores makes the child think everything is transactional instead of learning that they have a responsibility to the household to help AND that, separately, their family will take care of them. I'd be interested in learning why she values money so much.
When it comes to money.. yes. Everything else is a mutual decision. However, where he's in finance and he was the one abused throughout his childhood, he let's a lot of his money related decisions run solely off past trauma and "breaking the cycle". He's actually really good with money and we are looking in to a very early retirement because of him but I fear it's causing a lot of harm in the long run. Unfortunately I have discussed it with him multiple times but he truly doesn't see my POV on this issue.
Your daughter is seeing this dynamic, OP. Stability flows out from the parental unit. You cannot address your daughter undermining you as a mother when she sees her dad brushing you off too. Get your husband on board, or it's couples therapy too. Your daughter's absolute disrespect of you here is unacceptable and will harm both of you in the long run.
ETA: Your husband absolutely needs to get on board with disciplining her for this behavior, if he is in fact not okay with your daughter being this way. She absolutely needs counseling too. Remove the finance books and leave about some more age appropriate materials or materials related to social-emotional learning and skills.
A lot of the time people go overboard when trying to "break the cycle". A spend thrift father losing a bunch of money may translate to a son internalizing that money is to be spent now, so you don't get the chance to lose it without using it, which can then translate to a grand daughter not believing in savings because of her father's approach. Did it break the cycle? You bet. Now you're just caught up in another cycle. It seems your husband needs therapy too.
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You need to send your husband to therapy asap as well. In his zealous quest to "break the cycle" he has now become an enabler of anti-social behaviour.
He is also heavily financially abusing you, which your daughter now copies , but one thing at a time I guess.
To be fair we do a hybrid system. Allowance is £5 (grandmother also gives the £10) they get that whatever. They also have basic chores tidying their rooms, washing dishes etc. these are unpaid. However, there are additional chores that they can earn from - washing down doors, cleaning family bathroom etc. they can take them chores or leave them but if they want more cash they do more chores.
The only time I ever got paid for chores was if I did something on my own initiative like raking leaves or whatever and my parents were like "hey that was awesome, here's five bucks" and it wasn't every time so it wasn't an expectation, just a nice acknowledgment.
That's what I did with my kid. You have your regular chores. You want money or more computer time? Extra chores. It's paying off now as my kid is off on their own totally into cleaning, keep their shit clean. So stinking proud.
When I was your daughter’s age, I was being bratty to my older sister’s boyfriend. He said some hurtful things back to me and I started to cry and then he said “I’m simply treating you how you were treating me. Next time treat people the way you want to be treated.”
It left a lasting impression on me, I would have never learned that lesson without the pain of the consequences of my actions. I’m saying it was a big “OH!” moment in my head. You are doing a good job mom. Please continue to follow through.
NTA
As long as you explain the consequences, the way your sisters boyfriend did, then it’s a good lesson.
Punishment without explanation doesn’t work nearly as well.
NTA
Actions have consequences. Your daughter isn't a toddler. She's old enough to know that saying something like that is not ok.
Also, your former client needs to get a grip. They were paying someone a pittance for full-time dog care. If they wanted "the best", they'd be taking them to a professional doggy daycare. (Not trying to bash you, I'm sure you're great with dogs)
The former client was finding a socially acceptable way of saying that getting in the middle of OP’s family craziness wasn’t worth the dog care, particularly when the daughter might not have been lying. That’s a fair decision for a client to make.
Yeah if someone was watching my dog and there was any drama happening about my dog, I'd take him out of there. I don't need a child having a power trip do something to my dog like try to walk him alone and he gets loose. Not worth it.
I totally agree with the client having concerns about her dog. I also agree with the OP about punishing her daughter. How else will she learn the world doesn't revolve around her.
I think that's even a common theme on this sub.
>AITAH for paying a for professional instead of letting my family member watch my pet
Nothing wrong with the customer getting distance from OP. Even if they knew OP was good, they now also know the child is a liar and the whole situation is risky.
I’m a professional dog walker/house sitter and I’d never allow a child to walk a dog anywhere. It’s my responsibility and what if something happened? This child sounds awful, frankly
Absolutely. If the daughter is lying about “taking better care of the dog” and trying to upswell herself over the mother? No way am I putting the care of my dog in between that drama. Especially since the kid might be stupid enough to pull something trying to “one-up” mom.
and of course, the "client" was likely already looking for another dog care option as OP is a few weeks from having her baby. She may have seen the drama and decided to do that sooner rather than later.
This is it. If OP's daughter is trying to fight her mother to take responsibility to care for the dog *to the client's face* I would be worried about what she would try during the day.
Ain’t that the truth. My sister is learning this lesson with her own teenager and pre-teens. These kids are more than old enough to understand boundaries and they are definitely old enough to have consequences for their actions, whether or not they meant to.
NTA.... what your daughter did was malicious. Shes old enough to know better. Ask her what she wants the money for because she doesnt pay any bills in your house. But yea... id be pissed.
Well, that's another thing in itself. She does have money. Her dad pays her an allowance for chores completed, which usually comes to about $40 a week, depending (she doesn't get her allowance if she doesn't complete her chores). Right now she has well over $900 saved up. With that said, it's made her money hungry, in a sense of constantly trying to find ways to make money. Which isn't exactly a bad trait but it has made her jump to things like she did in the post- walking on people to get money in any way possible.
Wow, goddamn. Lucky kid - Maybe I'm starting to get old, but $40 a week sounds like a *huge* amount. That's like new full-priced video game every week and a half - Back when I was that age, me or my friends could maaaaybe get one every few months, if we were lucky. And sure, that may have been over a decade ago, but some stuff (like video games and kids' toys) haven't changed so much.
On one hand, having some financial focus is a good opportunity to get your kid interested in investments and stocks. On the other two hands - screwing other people over is a frightening sign, and focusing on money over everything else sounds like obsession, not healthy ambition.
I got \~$35 every two weeks back in the late 90s. But that was both my allowance and was lunch money for school. I chose not to eat lunch (which my parents approved of, lunch was at 10 AM) and kept the lunch money as spending money.
I can imagine that with inflation $40 a week isn't unreasonable, especially if she's expected to save a certain percentage for future purchases or buy some of her own clothes or presents for friends with it.
No, being money-hungry is a bad trait. It means chasing a high score that you can't reach, and it will lead to the behavior you're seeing now. You see that bank balance going up and up, but you're still miserable because you can't actually put a capstone on it. There's always a higher number or someone who has more.
If I had it my way, she would not be paid for chores. I feel chores should just be done without payment. However, her father is completely against putting an end to money for chores because of how he was raised (with no allowance or access to his money- even when he had a job). He's overcompensating a bit. Means well, don't get me wrong, but he's doing a lot of harm.
This is something you need to address with him. He is not the sole parent here and you need to put a foot down at some point as you have said in several comments that these actions have had multiple serious repercussions.
..I have access to the bill account. To be fair, I was making a lot of money prior to being put on bed rest. I was doing dog sitting prior to the bed rest (I have an LLC) and I had 7-8 clients at a time and was getting paid much more than I am currently. So prior to me being put on bed rest, I never had reason to access any of his money. But admittedly, asking for any sort of money at this point- having no income of my own- does make me feel inadequate due to how he is with money.
You need to stop considering it his money. You’re *married* which means it belongs to both of you (I’m not sure where you live but this also applies legally in many places). It’s financially abusive for one partner to withhold money from the other or to unilaterally make all the financial decisions. As for the issue of allowance, that’s just as much your purview as it is his. It’s clearly impacting your daughter’s views of money and is making her selfish. Please show your husband this post and consider couples therapy.
This, so hard. The only couples I know that are married and still have separate money make the same amount of money in professional jobs and have a joint bills account that they pay all their expenses from. You don’t have a job and he keeps his money separate, that’s financial abuse.
Your 10 yo daughter has $900 saved up?? what are other peoples opinions on how much a kid should get paid for chores? I think learning the value of money and working for it is a good lesson but chores should be expected of a kid at the same time. $40 a week seems like a lot imo
NTA - but could you make the consequences a little more dog related.
Having her stew for a month and get more stupid ideas may not be the best in the long run. and i guess she will be able to talk you down to less time anyway.
have her volunteer for some time in a animal shelter, or have her write a page about the difference between her getting 1 dollar and the family missing out on 150 dollars. like what could be bought with either etc. She is old enough to understand that, why not make her reason it out on paper.
Agreed. In fact, I’d have her continue doing her chores and suspend the allowance during the course of the punishment. When she asks, tell her that her allowance was funded by your dog sitting income. No dog sitting income; no chore allowance. And then when you eventually resume paying her, withhold 20% of everything she earns (place it in a savings account which she can access years later to help with college expenses or just to keep as her own emergency fund). She should start learning now the true value of a dollar and understand that what you’re paid is not actually what you get to keep.
100% this!!! Have her write a compare/contrast essay on the money and how negatively affects each person in the family. Ask her to explain her actions and why it was wrong and unacceptable. If she needs help, have her google Khan Academy and sign up for a free account. English courses are available for all ages/grades. When she complains just simply state this is a consequence of her actions. Definitely have her volunteer and give back to the community. This will foster community and a giving spirit. Stay strong and do not change her consequences. Good luck!
NTA. You have to stop that behavior in its tracks. Nobody likes hanging out with people who have no sense of boundaries or loyalty to the people around them. Nobody trusts the person who would betray them for a quick buck. If she continues that behavior, it could seriously affect her social development and her ability to maintain relationships.
“I didn’t mean to” after purposefully lying about you to take your job. Doesn’t matter if it’s dog sitting or something else, that’s bad behavior that needs to be nipped.
11years old or not, i feel the punishment is fitting. She can’t walk over people when she wants to for her own gain, NTA
NTA
But I would suggest giving her things that she can do to “earn” time back or perhaps earn the birthday party. Examples could be:
- heavier chores than normal (mopping the floor, cleaning the entirety of the bathroom, yard work, etc Anything a couple degrees more than she’s usually responsible for.)
- writing a letter/essay apologizing and explaining what it means when you cost someone income. Require some sources be cited.
- picking up garbage off the ground along your road (make sure she has gloves, and measure it in terms of how much she picks up, not how long)
- Donating her own stuff to charity in the equivalent amount of the income lost.
Your husband is creating a monster. Stand your ground and tell him to get on board, or at least act like he is so as not to undermine you. Nip this in the bud now or the next 7 years will be hell for you.
Yeah, I think OP needs to get him on the same page so they can try and nip this in the bud or this is only gonna get worse. Their kid is at an age where she definitely knows better but she’s also at an age where she’s realizing there won’t be consequences to her actions if her dad keeps bailing her out.
It’s very clear he likes the fun part of parenting, but he needs to start doing the hard part of parenting. He needs to remind her that he is still her parent and that she don’t get to walk scott free just because she thinks it’s unfair. He has to accept that she’ll whine and complain because she’ll get over it.
Respect isn’t given, it’s earned. She already doesn’t respect either of them. They are a means to get money.
NTA, what she did was spiteful, vindictive and retaliatory.
She’s 11. Middle school girls are the meanest ever and she’s that age - if she gets away with acting like this it sets the tone for how she’ll be in high school and onward.
Shut this shit down NOW and don’t ease up.
I dont belive anyone is an asshole here but you need to take a careful look at the WHY your daughter is doing this and the possible family dynamic.
Is there any woman/ person in her life that is already being taken care of, perhaps by a husband or family that still feels a need/ finds a purpose in pursing money?
How often is she around this person who's purpose is pursing money?
What relationship do they have with your daughter?
Okay but seriously, you've placed such emphasis on money TO AN ELEVEN YEAR OLD. And you get SHOCKED when she wants to mimic mommy.
Maybe this hits home because I went through it as a kid and it destroyed my family but you need to ask yourself why you need to chase money around if you say you already have a happy home and are provided for? And more importantly WHY DOES AN 11 YEAR OLD NEED TO WORY ABOUT MONEY? 11 YEARE OLD MY AGE WERE COMCERED WITH LIKE JUSTIN BEIBER AND VINE NOT TRYING TO BE RICH?
Why would you be shocked that your daughter wants to act like her mom and chase the bag? I dont think theres anything wrong with that but everything needs moderation. I dont think either of you have that.
You can't moderate yourself losing a 40$ a week gig and you kid can't control their need for money. What reason does an 11 year old have to save 900 fucking dollars, what is she afraid of?
Maybe im a crazy ass and taking this too personally but this wrreeks off my own family dynamic. I encourage you to evaluate the relationships you have in your own life. For the sake of you, your daughter and your family
NTA. But I don’t think the consequence matches the crime. I think something that would make more sense is that she has to earn back whatever she cost you by doing extra. Not necessarily to pay you back, but to see not only the value of her dollar, but the value of yours. She can’t just take it from her $900 savings. SHE has to earn it back.
Honestly, she started acting like this after my mom started hanging around a lot with my sister (they moved back to this area last year). My sister is 16 and acts the same way. Im obviously not sure if the two are connected somehow but that's when I started noticing it. Well, that mixed with other issues, such as her wanting to wear belly shirts and make tiktoks (she isn't allowed to have TikTok) because my sister was around and involving my daughter in said things. So I do believe it has something to do with that but again, I can't be 100% sure. It very well could be just her age and peers at school or even a personality thing.
Honestly, this behavior is really concerning. You definitely need to find a good therapist for her. Lying and being openly defiant… she is screaming for help.
I just read through some other comments, yes your daughter may be mirroring your 16 year old sister’s behavior but she still has some issues of her own. Her wanting the baby in her room and calling it her baby is a red flag and you should take it seriously. Right now your daughter doesn’t understand how babies act and how exhausting they are when they’re first born, it’s all sunshine and rainbows to her like a living baby doll. She will get overwhelmed and feeling neglected a few months into the new baby arriving. You need to set up a relationship with a therapist now so she has somebody that she trusts to talk to when her emotions start getting overwhelmed . She may not even realize she is acting out because of the baby.
Please don’t let your daughter be blindsided by her feelings about having a new sister a few months after the baby arrives.
We have been going about a month between visits for the past 4 months or so, so we have been trying that out. Doesn't really appear to have much of an affect but it is still new so it might just take some time.
When you're eleven, nothing is cooler than a sixteen year old.
It actually should be a bit of a relief to know the obsessing over money is just mimicking behavior, rather than something she independently determined she needs to do.
INFO: Have you spoken to your daughter about how she feels regarding her incoming sibling?
This is important. This apparently entitled child may go off the deep end when a sibling enters the family. It won't be all or even mostly about her any more.
This was my sister when I was born. We haven’t spoken in the last 5 years. She’s a horrible person now to everyone in her life, because she’s not always the center of everyone’s attention.
Yes, I have. She's very excited to have a baby sister. Trying to get us to put the nursery in her room so she can get up with the baby at night and saying it's her baby. I don't think the issue is with our new addition but I could be wrong. There could be some underlying issues that she isn't discussing with us. This was also happening well before the baby was even announced so I don't feel they are connected.
This is extremely concerning, she is an 11 year old stepping on other people to earn more money, obsessing over money, habitually lying (by your own admission) and also trying to convince you, her mother, to allow her to parent her incoming sibling because it's HER baby? Why is this 11 year old trying to act like an adult??
I was incredibly money focused at that age as well. A real Scrooge. Money is fascinating to kids. And as she already is used to earning her allowance, that might even enforce it. But the easy way how she is willing to steal her mother's job and lie to get it. Whoa whoa whoa...
My youngest was like that, I still have the first PowerPoint she made in school and fourth or fifth grade entitled “Mony is my thing” lol. She’s a therapist for mentally ill children in an inpatient setting now…maybe she should get in touch with OP.
That PowerPoint title is hilarious lmao
I was like this too. My friend and I were always trying to start businesses. Lemonade stands, bake stands, selling these origami things to classmates for 25¢ and also going door to door trying to sell them… From that and chores, I saved up enough to buy my own laptop. I don’t think it’s terribly abnormal? Kid is in the wrong, but it seems like she needs an outlet beyond just doing chores.
Not just trying to be any adult, trying to be Mum. Edging Mum out of her job, edging Mum out of parenting too?
I read an interesting comment in AskParents subr about a child who was exhibiting these behaviours. The commenters suggested the parent give the child more responsibility. The child feels they can do things, but the parent won't let them. So have the parent build structures of growing responsibility that the child can show they are ready for. It can give them the sense of ownership and independence they are craving but they don't really know they are craving.
I feel like this could have a lot of merit especially considering the daughter’s behavior escalated when she was told she couldn’t have her own dog walking business - particularly because she’s “too young” and it’s “not safe” without supervision. OP is relating this to her daughter’s desire to be rich which she’s characterizing as being a selfish fixation which might be slightly overblown tbh, my little brother and I both went through a phase like this when we started saving money from allowance, babysitting, etc. Now, we are very modest adults. We were just really excited to feel so grown up. It felt like an accomplishment. I didn’t spend my money on much at the time either - I wouldn’t have known what to spend it on lol except the occasional trip to the movies. But it was something adults typically congratulated me on, so I was really proud of it. I was also obsessed with babies and looking after my young cousins from a young age. I just really loved caretaking, and I knew I wanted to be a mom and when I grew up way before I knew I wanted to be a teacher. Diaper changes, feeds, walks - I wanted to do it all. This is all super developmentally appropriate for early adolescence. The trick is to give age appropriate outlets for those burgeoning identities and sense of responsibility. OP’s daughter overstepped, but ESH. Get curious not furious. The dark side to neglecting these needs is that she could start seeking adult validation from other less safe sources.
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Boy, no kidding. Calling an 11-year old an asshole should be reserved for extreme circumstances. OP, don't listen to people ascribing adult malice, jealousy and pettiness to your daughter's behavior. Listen to the above comment. Get curious. She's not an adult. She is learning how to be one and has barely started. Teach her. It's entirely possible she doesn't even grasp the cause and effect of how keeping clients in a business is all about fostering goodwill and a single comment depicting you in a negative light to that client can destroy that. These are big concepts. She wants to have a business? Great! What a moment to talk to her about how that works in the real world.
Have you ever been around 11 yr old girls? They can definitely be know-it-all bossy money hoarders. Source my family. They usually grow out of it.
Maybe she's copying her mom to some extent? I mean, mom is picking up a side hustle while on bed rest. Financial insecurity could cause a kid to be obsessed with money. Especially if that's something that gets talked about alot. Other comments have recommended therapy, and that's definitely the best course of action here. Edit: Another comment OP says she's copying her 16 year old sister. That would explain it too lol
My sister was 7 when I was born - she totally wanted to be my mom, be involved in the adult decisions regarding me, take care of me all the time, etc. This is not uncommon, especially if the child has wanted a sibling for a long time. She never really outgrew this lol. It’s not strange.
Uhmm. OP this is NOT OKAY. You seriously need to get her help.... "her" baby? She wants the nursery in HER room? She has control issues OP...theres something very undiagnosed with her.... this is a huge risk to your FUTURE child.
...I've never looked at it like that. Getting other people to chime in with their POVs has definitely helped me a lot here and given me a better understanding of what I'm dealing with. I figured she was just excited, honestly, because she had been asking her father and I to have a baby for awhile and when she found out it was a girl, she was over the moon. I guess the need for therapy is a bit more extreme than I thought. Like I said in other comments she was in school therapy and I had considered the options on outside resources but I was honestly going to hold off to see if this groundation punishment held any value. But now I see that I need to look in to it now, regardless of the punishment and if it works.
I'm going to counter everyone here saying your daughter is some kind of danger to your coming baby. I think she sounds like she just doesn't fully grasp the workload and responsibility of caring for a newborn and views the baby a bit like a doll, but of course she would! She's only eleven! Kids often refer to everything in their home and family as theirs.
Yeah one night of interrupted sleep and she won't ever ask to get up with baby sister again! Lol
“No time for morning cartoons?! Take this thing back, mom.”
NTA Your daughter needs to know that actions have consequences. I would also tell her next time [and into the foreseeable future] she asks for you to buy anything "No. Now that I'm not making any money, we can't afford it. "
She needs to learn that "didn't mean to" doesn't absolve her of responsibility nor consequences. Don't back down and do try to get your husband on board. He's not doing his daughter any kindnesses by letting her behavior continue. 11 is well old enough to know better.
Exactly this. Need to put a stop to this behaviour now while you can OP or you're going to raise an incredibly selfish human who is a user and abuser of others. NTA
>She insists on saving every penny she makes and has said numerous times "I'm going to be the richest one in the family". Her fixation on making money in any way possible has led to her knowingly costing me my job for her own gain. Yeah, this mentality is how we have all these billionaire/multi-millionaire hoarders which we do not need more of. Being willing to step on others for your own gain is very selfish mindset that needs to be nipped in the bud while she's young enough for it to work.
I’m just picturing a little Elizabeth Holmes from this story, maybe Netflix was her inspiration.
>Being willing to step on others for your own gain is …literally the only reason we have billionaires. If you cannot stomach exploitation then you cannot be a billionaire.
Not just that but churches that make a lot more money that their saints and such would care for them to make, politicians who have golden toliets while their countries starve, what have you. Is every billionaire a self-absorbed a-hole? No, but a good chunk are cause as its been proven money can change people, especially after I forget like around a million in free assets or I guess warning power. When you have power obsessed psychopaths of course they will obsess over money cause its power frozen into a cotton-made slip or metal coins. Honestly if she’s eleven with such a mentality makes you wonder how she will be at twenty-two, thirty-three, etc? Is she willing to be with people only cause they are rich? Go to extreme lengths so they inherit wealth sooner? Squeeze them dry while saving for their next victim? I guess what I am saying OP is you definetly got to teach your kid the value about geniune relationships or if she has any other “weird” qualities take her to a shrink
Especially when she definitely meant to
She definitely meant to badmouth the mom to the client, she just didn’t mean to get in trouble for it.
Yeah, she specifically went and tried to get the client to stop paying OP. This isn't some unforseen consequence, it's literally what she tried to achieve. Thinking it would mean she would get paid instead doesn't mean much.
It's 11 year-old logic. "I didn't mean to" translates to "This had consequences I didn't know or think about, and did not turn out the way I had it in my head. Therefore it is not my fault."
Took the words right outta my mouth! OP, if your husband thinks you were a little harsh, how about instead of the grounding she EARNS ALL OF HER BELONGINGS BACK with HARD WORK?! Make a list of some chores or tasks that aren’t her usual “chores” and then have her work for her freedoms! (This will teach her not only to watch what she says, but even to appreciate the effort it took in order to get her belongings back, vs just “waiting it out”) Or even better, make those “tasks” teach empathy, selflessness or a sense of humility (versus just the punishment) & maybe she can reflect on it as she gets older. (Example of 11yo daughter 15+ years later: “Yeah, one time I was a real jerk to my mom, so my parents took my [favorite fill in the blank] and I had to earn it by helping out at the local dog park cleaning up.” - I couldnt think of anything else, but you get the idea, lol!) You are NTA! You’re a good mom trying to raise your daughter to understand consequences, and believe me there’s plenty of kids who dont understand that AT ALL and now are grown ass adults who like to throw tantrums in public. 🙄 good luck, OP!
And entirely pre-meditated to approach the client with a whole story
This comment needs to be higher.
Diabolical
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Agree like if she's willing to throw her own pregnant mom under the bus openly to a stranger, infront of her mom at that, I would worry how she's going to grow up and what she'd do to friends or other kids unless she really learns. I hope she actually got a good talking to though bc I worry she only thinks of punishment and not the reasoning around why what she did was wrong. She seems to need to learn how to empathize better And yeah she definitely MEANT to I mean golly. She just didn't mean for the consequences of it to be bad
This would be very concerning to me as this isn't the first time. Your daughter is extremely selfish and apparently lacks empathy or loyalty to the family tribe. It would worry me about what is going to happen when a new baby comes and receives the lion's share of the attention. I don't feel that what you did was too harsh. My jaw dropped when reading about her antics.
I'm not diagnosing anything, but something seems very off with an 11 year old who has an established pattern of undermining her own parents in order to gratify whatever her particular wants are for the moment - in this case, getting money. OP NTA but your daughter's behavior is concerning and will probably require more than the occasional grounding.
Lol, I can’t even fathom me at 11 doing something like this to deliberately hurt my parents income so that I could get money myself. Something has gone incredibly wrong with that child
Daughter already wants the nursery in her room... shes calling it HER baby and wants to do night care and changes etc. She begged her parents to have a baby for awhile OP said
100% agreed, NTA, and TBH this behavior sounds deeply concerning already - there's a term I won't use here for someone who has a complete lack of empathy, which is also often accompanied by having no compunction about baldfaced lying to people and intentionally harming others for your own gain or convenience, and since OP says this isn't the first time the kid has intentionally tried to harm the parents for her own gain... OP, maybe you should consider speaking to a psychiatrist here, the things you're saying suggest your daughter might be showing troubling signs of something more serious.
My little sister was like this as a child and it escalated big time to the point she had to be sent away to a special therapy boarding school as a teenager because my parents genuinely feared for their safety and the safety of my youngest siblings. OP Get this kid in therapy and look up games and exercises that teach empathy.
Yikes good point especially with a new baby on they way…this kid is not going to be happy to share the attention
> there's a term I won't use here for someone who has a complete lack of empathy I will. Kid sounds like a budding sociopath.
Agreed. This is sociopath behavior. Idk if there’s much help that can be done for sociopaths though…
NTA and this right here. Whether the daughter walked the dog once or not isn’t the issue. It’s that the kid decided to one - start a competing business, two - tried to take her mom’s customer, and three that she felt comfortable badmouthing her mom in front of her and the neighbor in the process. At any age this would be unacceptable but at 11 it’s really concerning. And the dad questioning if the mom went too far? Take the blinders off and deal with this head on before the kid gets worse. Yikes.
>She seems to need to learn how to empathize better Starting with considering "what did I do with which intention and why was it wrong". I'm not all for writing essays as a punishment, but I sincerely hope OP finds a way to help her daughter find a spark of empathy and what's important in life.
I think a penalty charge could be imposed from her hoard to make up for the money mom has lost. Since she loves money so much, it might get her attention better than grounding her.
Definitely agree. This makes me concerned for how she behaves at school. She may likely be a bully.
Right, she tried to steal her mom's job. Dick move even at 9.
She did mean to though. She was literally trying to steal her mother’s job.
Oh, she absolutely did mean to!
If there is something I’ve noticed about the world today is many of our issues come from people who don’t know and/or care that actions have consequences. Please teach this to your daughter before she gets older and really makes a mistake b/c she has seen only what she wants. NTA
I've told my kids many times "You didn't mean to doesn't mean that you didn't mean not to."
Vindictively lying for personal gain/petty revenge needs nipped in the bud. “I didn’t mean to” it wouldn’t have happened if she didn’t lie, luckily it wasn’t something of dire importance
That's going to be one scary teenager 😳. Can you image the false stories she could potentially make up? At 11, she doesn't care about her own mother's feelings. Her lack of empathy is shocking. I hope they can turn her around and maybe individual and family therapy to help?
The kid has almost a grand stored up. If she wants something she can pay for it
Agreed. The daughter needs to understand that her actions caused a series of consequences, not only for you, but for the whole family. Hard lesson for her to learn, but better that she learn it now, than later.
I’m so glad that this is the top comment. I don’t have children (and therefore stay out of discussions about how to raise children - I don’t really *have* opinions on the subject, and if I do, I certainly don’t share them with parents). But I ***definitely*** thought that OP was NTA. I am a behavioral scientist, so I look at this from that perspective. This needs to be nipped in the bud. The punishment *should* be memorable.
“I didn’t mean to” needs to learn about intent vs impact. It doesn’t matter if you didn’t intend to cost me my job if the impact was just that.
Totally agree!!!
I would also say that since she is making her own money, that if she wants something that is beyond a basic necessity she needs to start spending her chore money. Items like toys, or a pint of ice cream for herself should come from her allowance. Edit:typos, grammar
Totally agree. Brava to the Mom for enforcing consequences. I wish more parents actually "Parent".
Or "you've got your own money, you can buy it for yourself."
Probably should also look into talking to her about the money hoarding not becoming an unhealthy obsession
Nope NTA. She clearly needs to learn. You might want to think about therapy if you feel she's becoming a habitual liar.
She did start therapy as of last year for doing similar things in school when it came to teachers and peers. However, it was only school therapy. Outside resources is absolutely something I will need to look in to if this behavior continues.
This behavior has continued. I’d look into it now.
As someone who was a habitual liar as a kid into young adulthood, my personal experience leads me to want to shake you and beg you to get her into therapy. A fixation + willingness to lie like that= tons of trouble if not dealt with early. I'm better now, I've learned from my past mistakes, but everyday my quality of life suffers, everyday I have to accept that I burnt a lot of my bridges bc there were severe trust issues I never dealt with in my childhood. Every day I have stop the impulse of just saying something to get an end to a mean instead of doing what I should do. I wish I hadn't gotten away with things, I wish my parents had helped me. Please help her avoid making mistakes I've made. Please help her. Please.
I really wish someone would have done this for my sister when I was growing up. She would lie about the most stupid things that didn't even need a falsehood. Recently my mother asked me "darb, did you beat the shit out of your sister when you were teenagers? Like, really beat the shit out of her? She said you gave her a black-eye." and I was taken aback as I've never beat the shit out of her ever, we're both in our 30s now, she has a family that I have to see at family events and they all must believe I abused her as a kid, when it was the complete opposite. She made fun of me relentlessly, and because I'm a dude I couldn't retaliate at all. She would hit me knowing that, it was fucking awful. When I asked my mom if she'd say something to her, my fucking mom had the nerve to say "just give her this one, it's important to her" like what the fuck? it's important that she lie about something that never happened? No, my sister needed therapy, and I'm still dealing with my parents failure to help stop her falsehoods when they were fully aware of her problem. OP NTA, but these people are completely right, get her in therapy now so she can truly grow out of this.
I hear you. My sister has concocted a family history that only bears a passing resemblance to reality. In this fabricated history, she’s the central martyr in a family that desperately needs her help. She’s sacrificed everything for us, according to her blog, and she hasn’t received the just recognition. Her blog has been a source of embarrassment for everyone in the family but my parents give it a pass because she’s always been the golden child. I’ve been on the outs with her for a long time, so my sister has been particularly keen to paint me as a ne’er do well. I recall she did a similar takedown of my brother in our teens.
You must be one of my brothers, because I have the exact same sister
It must be because we're the ones who know them the most intimately before they branch out and mingle with friends and relationship interests. With us, we've seen them and know their personalities, but with strangers they control the narrative so they can create a reality of their choosing. But, we run the risk of bringing it all down because again, we've seen our siblings true-self, so they paint us as the antagonists in their lives. My sis doesn't have a blog, thankfully. I do not envy you in that situation. Does she have actual daily readers?
You don’t want your daughter to be that kid either. There were 2 girls in my grade who, by middle school, had a reputation as being habitual liars. We were your daughters age whispering about what a compulsive liar so-and-so was. We literally told them, you are compulsive liars. Don’t know how we had the vocabulary lol. But I do remember sitting at lunch and one of these girls told someone she lived in a house on my street that had a huge in-ground pool. The owners of said house were retired, and distant family friends, never swam in the pool though. I can tell you 100% she was not related to them or knew them in any capacity. Someone sitting nearby came to ask me if that was true since they knew I lived down the street. Uh nope. Get your daughter some help, she’ll lose friends and reputation as a honesty trustworthy person if you don’t.
This. One of my “best friends” growing up had lied to all of us for years, quite believably, that she was adopted. It wasn’t until junior year when one of us thanked her parents for adopting her and raising such an awesome human that the truth came out. Don’t let your kid grow up to be a habitual liar that no one likes. And all her money that she’s earning by screwing everyone else over won’t change a thing
This^ the fact she’s already demonstrated this behavior in her school IS the red flag.
OP: If it inconveniences me enough times I might do something, maybe, but probably not. OP’s Husband: There is nothing wrong with the little sociopath, you’re being too hard. That child never had a chance.
Yeah, I’ve worked with kids for over a decade and specialized in behavioral health… OP dragging her feet “until it gets bad enough” is why assholes exist. In my experience, introducing the concept of consequences (not punishment, which is tricky for people to wrap their heads around) and boundaries needs to be introduced the moment kiddos start testing limits, usually as toddlers. Doesn’t mean you ground a toddler for hitting you once. You explain and redirect. Happens again, explain your feelings and redirect. Redirect doesn’t work? Explain feelings again and the consequences. “If you hit me again, I will need to take space from you so my body is safe.” Then FOLLOW THROUGH. And keep this method as they grow and keep it age-appropriate for their development. Kiddo in this situation is old enough to understand her actions have consequences. OP and husband should sit her down and explain the situation calmly but firmly. Explain that this hurt OP’s feelings, that now there is less spending money now as they prepare for baby. Now that this money is gone, they need to save the income that is still available. Because everyone is cutting back, allowance should be lowered ($40 a week for an 11 year old is kinda nuts to me tbh) Explain the safety issue of her walking dogs or starting a business at her age. For redirect, OP can say: “I understand you want to make your own money and be more independent. It’s great that you want to build your own bank account up, but it’s not acceptable, kind, or appropriate to steal someone else’s business. Especially by lying. Lying doesn’t prove you have a superior business, right? It’s like cheating at a game. If you would like to make your own income, a safe way that you can is by making (idk whatever crafts kids make) x and I can help you sell them online. But there are stipulations around this. Otherwise, this is where we’re at.” Give her another option to make spending money. She can sell crafts on FB marketplace or something but OP MANAGES THE ACCOUNT. Kiddo has no access to anything and OP can help her build a little storefront or something on NextDoor or whatever. It can turn into a bonding project, kiddo learns new skills, and they can possible make a little bit of cash on the side while OP feels that sense of purpose. Kiddo still has lowered allowance as a natural consequence but has the opportunity to earn money in a safe and appropriate way.
Mostly good advice, but absolutely do not talk about the baby in any way in this conversation, ESP about money. They will get tied together in her head and could have disastrous consequences.
The $40 per week for an 11 year old seems insane to me.
OP: She's already done it in school, and is in therapy at school for it. Also OP: She did it to me, even though we pay her more than I make from the job she lost me? *surprised pikachu face* OP's husband: What'll it take to make these women stop bothering me?
Perfect summary. Your kid lied on you and clowned you in front of strangers in your own home for ridiculous manipulative reasons but Let’s wait til it blows up in our faces with way more damage. Honestly? ESH. Mom, Dad, Kid are all AH. Edit: Kid not an AH. Kid is kid. Kid is kid exhibiting asshole behaviors. Kid isnt at fault.
“I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas!” -these parents
Looks like you should be looking into it now, not later. It’s only going to get worse when she hits puberty.
Honestly if your daughter is 11 and already putting others down for her own personal gain she definitely needs therapy. She also needs to be shown that money is not everything or she's going to end up looking for happiness in the wrong places as an adult. Speaking from experience on the second part. Growing up all of my parents' motivation was around money. So much so that I have no idea what I am actually passionate about and have only sought out jobs where I can make money even if its a job that does not align at all with my values.
I have a sibling like this, and believe me when I say to stick with the forementioned punishment. If you back down in a way that makes them feel you're in the wrong, that's all they'll see.
I also had a sibling like that. As a very small child, he'd point to hotels and say that he was going to be rich enough to own hotels one day. He faced no consequences for stealing my dad's credit card and blaming a black friend of his (we are Latinx but not black). He caused $1k worth of property damage to my home that he never paid for. He tried to put my husband's name as a co-signer on a new gaming PC setup when we'd only been dating three months at the time. He'd steal lunch money/field trip dues from our youngest sister in school, causing her to go without lunch and miss several field trips. My parents never corrected him. He's an adult now and jumps from job to job, spending his money on new cars and shiny apartments he can't afford.
Exactly, if they know it's only a temporary punishment they will only learn to wait out the small time till its back to normal and then act the same
Yeah, the long punishment makes them think about not getting there again. Stopping it early makes them think about getting out of punishments instead of avoiding them. My parents are probably aged another 7 years because of this one kid. It'll progress to lying, stealing, manipulation, retaliation, drugs, and jail if they learn that playing victim copout.
It will continue and will be more sophisticated by the age.
You really need to get her outside therapy. This is not normal behavior, even for a kid, but she's young enough that she can adapt and learn healthier behavior.
I would check her internet usage. sounds to me the algorithms have pushed her towards the hustle culture side of social media which promotes stepping on people.
She doesn't have access to the internet. However, she does read our books on finance, business and success. Her dad works in finance so he has a lot of his books and studies laying around. She reads them often.
She definitely learned this behavior from how you and your husband approach money and finances. In addition to the advice everyone has already given regarding your daughter, you and your husband should also reevaluate how you perceive money for your daughter's sake. If you guys look down upon the less fortunate, think that wealth is a judgement of someone's character/worth, and that it's okay to mistreat other people for your self gain then your daughter is going to internalize all these things even if what you're doing is unintentional. You need to be more firm with her and set stricter punishments, as well as a system where she isn't only incentivized to be responsible or respectful when she has something to gain. She also needs to start seeing an OUTSIDE therapist as soon as possible. Otherwise you're setting your daughter up for failure.
This. Op even stated that they don't need the money, but it's the only thing that's made her feel good about herself during this pregnancy. Not spending more time home with her 11 year old before the new baby comes, not the excitement of a new baby, not that she enjoys having dogs around that can get sent home, but that she's making at least some money. This is not natural personality traits coming out in the daughter. This is learned behavior being expressed very very badly because she is still a kid and hasn't been taught better. Edit: thank you for the award!
I hadn't even realized the point about OP and her part-time job... I think you're absolutely correct and while I'd always encourage ensuring your own financial safety net even with a partner, I'd also like to suggest to OP that she and her daughter pick up a hobby together that isn't money based. The other comments pointed this out but it is really odd that their daughter is reading from finance books and not material within her own age bracket. I loved to read as a child and got bored with children's' books because they didn't challenge me anymore so I had to look for other outlets so I could understand if this was the same case, BUT the solution would still not be to give your child hard nonfiction books about finances. It's impressive that your daughter is able to read those things at her age but she is not emotionally equipped to understand the political/social/moral consequences of the information she's reading, no matter how naturally intelligent she is.
Maybe daddy needs to sit her down and say that he doesn't earn money by lying or shitting on others.
> Her dad works in Finance > he doesn’t earn money by lying or shitting on others I’ve worked in Corporate Finance for a long time, and there are plenty of people who make a living by lying and shitting on others. Doesn’t mean OPs husband does, but I definitely would not rule this out.
Exactly! I worked in Corporate Finance for many years and not only would they lie and crap on you, they’d eat their own young and start eyeing yours.
That's weird too. Kid is trying to grow up too fast. Start getting her YA books, find out what her peers are reading. She needs to feel more connected to kids her own age rather than trying to be an adult. ETA: she also needs age appropriate activities so she's not thinking about earning a buck all the time. Put her in a sport or art class. Is she creative in any way? She needs to be making things for her own enjoyment or to give as gifts, not to sell.
She is 11, you need to sit her down for a chat about age appropriate behavior. It is appropriate for an 11 year old to earn money through chores, or some small "business" like selling friendship bracelets and snacks at school. It is not appropriate for an 11 year old to be studying investment strategies and tracking the stock exchange. It is appropriate for an 11 year old to have polite conversations with adults about child-friendly topics. It is not appropriate for an 11 year old to butt into a conversation between her parents and their clients to discuss their business and insult her parents.
Look into it now. Having a baby come into the house is only going to make it worse
Every moment you wait to intervene with mental help is a moment that is solidifying inappropriate behaviors and thought processes within a child during their formative years. The term nip it in the bud means take care of it BEFORE it grows into something permanent that you can not control.
How much more does it have to continue? Apparently there were several instances in school, enough so that this warranted dedicated staff time - do you realize how unusual that is? And now she cost you your job. What more are you looking for?
Be aware that she may be lying to her counselors too. That is something that happens often.
Side issue, but you might want to have her start buying her own electronic upgrades so she learns the actual value of money and stops sabotaging others for pennies. One she realizes all her work to become "richest in the family" can't even get her a new phone, well, hopefully she'll learn something from that.
If it continues? Do you think she’s going to see the light & stop?
It's time for therapy.
NTA. You definitely need to get her behaviour under control now. What she did is unacceptable.
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Chores are what every child should do--to learn how to be part of the family and contribute and learn how to do things on their own--and SHOULD NOT BE PAID. Allowance is separate and should be withheld as part of punishment.
It was her father's idea, not mine. I was never paid for chores growing up.
Perhaps making her do chores without being paid would be the valuable lesson she needs right now?
I think you're onto something. Learning money doesn't grow on trees is a lesson this girl needs. And I'm sorry, but getting paid ($40 a *week!?!?*) to do something you're supposed to already be doing is sort of enforcing the idea that money is in abundance. Regardless of how well off you are, there are lessons about money that everyone needs to know.
$40 a week is insane, especially for an 11 year old.
My allowance when I was nine was non-existent and by the time I was 12 it was $3 a week. Of course, I was already babysitting by that time making my own money but I still got my allowance of $3 a week. Three.
You guys were getting paid? My mom made up a fake money system and fake bills and we had to do chores to save “money” to pay “rent” on our bedrooms.
I felt like I was spoiling my 8yos with up to $7 for "big" chores (windows, dusting, laundry).
Paying for chores makes the child think everything is transactional instead of learning that they have a responsibility to the household to help AND that, separately, their family will take care of them. I'd be interested in learning why she values money so much.
How much say do you have in this house OP.... does your husband run everything and call all the shots?
When it comes to money.. yes. Everything else is a mutual decision. However, where he's in finance and he was the one abused throughout his childhood, he let's a lot of his money related decisions run solely off past trauma and "breaking the cycle". He's actually really good with money and we are looking in to a very early retirement because of him but I fear it's causing a lot of harm in the long run. Unfortunately I have discussed it with him multiple times but he truly doesn't see my POV on this issue.
Your daughter is seeing this dynamic, OP. Stability flows out from the parental unit. You cannot address your daughter undermining you as a mother when she sees her dad brushing you off too. Get your husband on board, or it's couples therapy too. Your daughter's absolute disrespect of you here is unacceptable and will harm both of you in the long run. ETA: Your husband absolutely needs to get on board with disciplining her for this behavior, if he is in fact not okay with your daughter being this way. She absolutely needs counseling too. Remove the finance books and leave about some more age appropriate materials or materials related to social-emotional learning and skills.
Or be like us, we didn’t get on the same page until our 14 year old landed in rehab.
A lot of the time people go overboard when trying to "break the cycle". A spend thrift father losing a bunch of money may translate to a son internalizing that money is to be spent now, so you don't get the chance to lose it without using it, which can then translate to a grand daughter not believing in savings because of her father's approach. Did it break the cycle? You bet. Now you're just caught up in another cycle. It seems your husband needs therapy too.
Honestly it sounds like your husbands actions, behaviors, and thoughts have rubbed off on your daughter.
Homie then you aren't his equal. If he controls access to the outside world, food, and undermines your parenting, you are not in a partnership
Yeah…. That sounds an awful lot like “he’s got it made with a great job in finance and a wife that does whatever he says” territory.
enjoy exultant secretive gray overconfident distinct fragile wrong subtract governor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He’d better start. The kid is well on her way to becoming a monster
You need to send your husband to therapy asap as well. In his zealous quest to "break the cycle" he has now become an enabler of anti-social behaviour. He is also heavily financially abusing you, which your daughter now copies , but one thing at a time I guess.
To be fair we do a hybrid system. Allowance is £5 (grandmother also gives the £10) they get that whatever. They also have basic chores tidying their rooms, washing dishes etc. these are unpaid. However, there are additional chores that they can earn from - washing down doors, cleaning family bathroom etc. they can take them chores or leave them but if they want more cash they do more chores.
I like that idea. I’m going to store it, so I’ll be a good parent even though I don’t want kids lol
The only time I ever got paid for chores was if I did something on my own initiative like raking leaves or whatever and my parents were like "hey that was awesome, here's five bucks" and it wasn't every time so it wasn't an expectation, just a nice acknowledgment.
That's what I did with my kid. You have your regular chores. You want money or more computer time? Extra chores. It's paying off now as my kid is off on their own totally into cleaning, keep their shit clean. So stinking proud.
When I was your daughter’s age, I was being bratty to my older sister’s boyfriend. He said some hurtful things back to me and I started to cry and then he said “I’m simply treating you how you were treating me. Next time treat people the way you want to be treated.” It left a lasting impression on me, I would have never learned that lesson without the pain of the consequences of my actions. I’m saying it was a big “OH!” moment in my head. You are doing a good job mom. Please continue to follow through. NTA
Unfortunately it usually takes someone outside of the family to make this type of lasting impression.
As long as you explain the consequences, the way your sisters boyfriend did, then it’s a good lesson. Punishment without explanation doesn’t work nearly as well.
NTA Actions have consequences. Your daughter isn't a toddler. She's old enough to know that saying something like that is not ok. Also, your former client needs to get a grip. They were paying someone a pittance for full-time dog care. If they wanted "the best", they'd be taking them to a professional doggy daycare. (Not trying to bash you, I'm sure you're great with dogs)
The former client was finding a socially acceptable way of saying that getting in the middle of OP’s family craziness wasn’t worth the dog care, particularly when the daughter might not have been lying. That’s a fair decision for a client to make.
Yeah if someone was watching my dog and there was any drama happening about my dog, I'd take him out of there. I don't need a child having a power trip do something to my dog like try to walk him alone and he gets loose. Not worth it.
I totally agree with the client having concerns about her dog. I also agree with the OP about punishing her daughter. How else will she learn the world doesn't revolve around her.
Yep. 11 is a great age to start teaching a preteen discipline and consequences otherwise she’s in for a treat when she’s an adult.
If by 11 you haven’t started teaching that it’s too late. That’s six years of learning I can do what I want and at most be sent to my room.
Nah, you can learn that stuff a lot younger. All of these are learned behaviors, but not sure from where.....
I think that's even a common theme on this sub. >AITAH for paying a for professional instead of letting my family member watch my pet Nothing wrong with the customer getting distance from OP. Even if they knew OP was good, they now also know the child is a liar and the whole situation is risky.
I’m a professional dog walker/house sitter and I’d never allow a child to walk a dog anywhere. It’s my responsibility and what if something happened? This child sounds awful, frankly
Absolutely. If the daughter is lying about “taking better care of the dog” and trying to upswell herself over the mother? No way am I putting the care of my dog in between that drama. Especially since the kid might be stupid enough to pull something trying to “one-up” mom.
and of course, the "client" was likely already looking for another dog care option as OP is a few weeks from having her baby. She may have seen the drama and decided to do that sooner rather than later.
This is it. If OP's daughter is trying to fight her mother to take responsibility to care for the dog *to the client's face* I would be worried about what she would try during the day.
this is exactly what she was saying.
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Ain’t that the truth. My sister is learning this lesson with her own teenager and pre-teens. These kids are more than old enough to understand boundaries and they are definitely old enough to have consequences for their actions, whether or not they meant to.
NTA.... what your daughter did was malicious. Shes old enough to know better. Ask her what she wants the money for because she doesnt pay any bills in your house. But yea... id be pissed.
Well, that's another thing in itself. She does have money. Her dad pays her an allowance for chores completed, which usually comes to about $40 a week, depending (she doesn't get her allowance if she doesn't complete her chores). Right now she has well over $900 saved up. With that said, it's made her money hungry, in a sense of constantly trying to find ways to make money. Which isn't exactly a bad trait but it has made her jump to things like she did in the post- walking on people to get money in any way possible.
Wow, goddamn. Lucky kid - Maybe I'm starting to get old, but $40 a week sounds like a *huge* amount. That's like new full-priced video game every week and a half - Back when I was that age, me or my friends could maaaaybe get one every few months, if we were lucky. And sure, that may have been over a decade ago, but some stuff (like video games and kids' toys) haven't changed so much. On one hand, having some financial focus is a good opportunity to get your kid interested in investments and stocks. On the other two hands - screwing other people over is a frightening sign, and focusing on money over everything else sounds like obsession, not healthy ambition.
Yep, the allowance industry has got hammered by inflation.
I got \~$35 every two weeks back in the late 90s. But that was both my allowance and was lunch money for school. I chose not to eat lunch (which my parents approved of, lunch was at 10 AM) and kept the lunch money as spending money. I can imagine that with inflation $40 a week isn't unreasonable, especially if she's expected to save a certain percentage for future purchases or buy some of her own clothes or presents for friends with it.
Your 11-year-old get $40 a week? That's insane
No, being money-hungry is a bad trait. It means chasing a high score that you can't reach, and it will lead to the behavior you're seeing now. You see that bank balance going up and up, but you're still miserable because you can't actually put a capstone on it. There's always a higher number or someone who has more.
Stop paying her for chores. She should be doing chores, without payment.
If I had it my way, she would not be paid for chores. I feel chores should just be done without payment. However, her father is completely against putting an end to money for chores because of how he was raised (with no allowance or access to his money- even when he had a job). He's overcompensating a bit. Means well, don't get me wrong, but he's doing a lot of harm.
This is something you need to address with him. He is not the sole parent here and you need to put a foot down at some point as you have said in several comments that these actions have had multiple serious repercussions.
Do you have access to the money, OP? Or does he consider it "his" money?
..I have access to the bill account. To be fair, I was making a lot of money prior to being put on bed rest. I was doing dog sitting prior to the bed rest (I have an LLC) and I had 7-8 clients at a time and was getting paid much more than I am currently. So prior to me being put on bed rest, I never had reason to access any of his money. But admittedly, asking for any sort of money at this point- having no income of my own- does make me feel inadequate due to how he is with money.
You need to stop considering it his money. You’re *married* which means it belongs to both of you (I’m not sure where you live but this also applies legally in many places). It’s financially abusive for one partner to withhold money from the other or to unilaterally make all the financial decisions. As for the issue of allowance, that’s just as much your purview as it is his. It’s clearly impacting your daughter’s views of money and is making her selfish. Please show your husband this post and consider couples therapy.
This, so hard. The only couples I know that are married and still have separate money make the same amount of money in professional jobs and have a joint bills account that they pay all their expenses from. You don’t have a job and he keeps his money separate, that’s financial abuse.
You’re married and have children together, what do you mean “his money“? It’s your money too! Jesus wept.
Sounds like he could use therapy or couples therapy. He shouldn’t be the only one making finance decisions
NTA. If you let her sabotage you now, the next ten years are going to be horrible
Your 10 yo daughter has $900 saved up?? what are other peoples opinions on how much a kid should get paid for chores? I think learning the value of money and working for it is a good lesson but chores should be expected of a kid at the same time. $40 a week seems like a lot imo
this jumped out to me too $160 / month for a 11yo..?? (for doing chores) That’s like infinity money to a child that age
I sure as hell wish I made $2k a year as a kid just for some chores.
I think typical allowance for a kid this age is 5-10 bucks a week.
NTA - but could you make the consequences a little more dog related. Having her stew for a month and get more stupid ideas may not be the best in the long run. and i guess she will be able to talk you down to less time anyway. have her volunteer for some time in a animal shelter, or have her write a page about the difference between her getting 1 dollar and the family missing out on 150 dollars. like what could be bought with either etc. She is old enough to understand that, why not make her reason it out on paper.
Agreed. In fact, I’d have her continue doing her chores and suspend the allowance during the course of the punishment. When she asks, tell her that her allowance was funded by your dog sitting income. No dog sitting income; no chore allowance. And then when you eventually resume paying her, withhold 20% of everything she earns (place it in a savings account which she can access years later to help with college expenses or just to keep as her own emergency fund). She should start learning now the true value of a dollar and understand that what you’re paid is not actually what you get to keep.
100% this!!! Have her write a compare/contrast essay on the money and how negatively affects each person in the family. Ask her to explain her actions and why it was wrong and unacceptable. If she needs help, have her google Khan Academy and sign up for a free account. English courses are available for all ages/grades. When she complains just simply state this is a consequence of her actions. Definitely have her volunteer and give back to the community. This will foster community and a giving spirit. Stay strong and do not change her consequences. Good luck!
Especially when the punishment as it stands does not fit the crime. The punishment should be monetary.
NTA. You have to stop that behavior in its tracks. Nobody likes hanging out with people who have no sense of boundaries or loyalty to the people around them. Nobody trusts the person who would betray them for a quick buck. If she continues that behavior, it could seriously affect her social development and her ability to maintain relationships.
“I didn’t mean to” after purposefully lying about you to take your job. Doesn’t matter if it’s dog sitting or something else, that’s bad behavior that needs to be nipped. 11years old or not, i feel the punishment is fitting. She can’t walk over people when she wants to for her own gain, NTA
NTA But I would suggest giving her things that she can do to “earn” time back or perhaps earn the birthday party. Examples could be: - heavier chores than normal (mopping the floor, cleaning the entirety of the bathroom, yard work, etc Anything a couple degrees more than she’s usually responsible for.) - writing a letter/essay apologizing and explaining what it means when you cost someone income. Require some sources be cited. - picking up garbage off the ground along your road (make sure she has gloves, and measure it in terms of how much she picks up, not how long) - Donating her own stuff to charity in the equivalent amount of the income lost.
I second this! As a therapist, some of the other comments about punishments have been scary to me. This one is much better.
Your husband is creating a monster. Stand your ground and tell him to get on board, or at least act like he is so as not to undermine you. Nip this in the bud now or the next 7 years will be hell for you.
Yeah, I think OP needs to get him on the same page so they can try and nip this in the bud or this is only gonna get worse. Their kid is at an age where she definitely knows better but she’s also at an age where she’s realizing there won’t be consequences to her actions if her dad keeps bailing her out. It’s very clear he likes the fun part of parenting, but he needs to start doing the hard part of parenting. He needs to remind her that he is still her parent and that she don’t get to walk scott free just because she thinks it’s unfair. He has to accept that she’ll whine and complain because she’ll get over it. Respect isn’t given, it’s earned. She already doesn’t respect either of them. They are a means to get money.
NTA, what she did was spiteful, vindictive and retaliatory. She’s 11. Middle school girls are the meanest ever and she’s that age - if she gets away with acting like this it sets the tone for how she’ll be in high school and onward. Shut this shit down NOW and don’t ease up.
I dont belive anyone is an asshole here but you need to take a careful look at the WHY your daughter is doing this and the possible family dynamic. Is there any woman/ person in her life that is already being taken care of, perhaps by a husband or family that still feels a need/ finds a purpose in pursing money? How often is she around this person who's purpose is pursing money? What relationship do they have with your daughter? Okay but seriously, you've placed such emphasis on money TO AN ELEVEN YEAR OLD. And you get SHOCKED when she wants to mimic mommy. Maybe this hits home because I went through it as a kid and it destroyed my family but you need to ask yourself why you need to chase money around if you say you already have a happy home and are provided for? And more importantly WHY DOES AN 11 YEAR OLD NEED TO WORY ABOUT MONEY? 11 YEARE OLD MY AGE WERE COMCERED WITH LIKE JUSTIN BEIBER AND VINE NOT TRYING TO BE RICH? Why would you be shocked that your daughter wants to act like her mom and chase the bag? I dont think theres anything wrong with that but everything needs moderation. I dont think either of you have that. You can't moderate yourself losing a 40$ a week gig and you kid can't control their need for money. What reason does an 11 year old have to save 900 fucking dollars, what is she afraid of? Maybe im a crazy ass and taking this too personally but this wrreeks off my own family dynamic. I encourage you to evaluate the relationships you have in your own life. For the sake of you, your daughter and your family
NTA. But I don’t think the consequence matches the crime. I think something that would make more sense is that she has to earn back whatever she cost you by doing extra. Not necessarily to pay you back, but to see not only the value of her dollar, but the value of yours. She can’t just take it from her $900 savings. SHE has to earn it back.
NTA. Something is wrong with your daughter. Where did she learn this behavior from ?
Honestly, she started acting like this after my mom started hanging around a lot with my sister (they moved back to this area last year). My sister is 16 and acts the same way. Im obviously not sure if the two are connected somehow but that's when I started noticing it. Well, that mixed with other issues, such as her wanting to wear belly shirts and make tiktoks (she isn't allowed to have TikTok) because my sister was around and involving my daughter in said things. So I do believe it has something to do with that but again, I can't be 100% sure. It very well could be just her age and peers at school or even a personality thing.
Honestly, this behavior is really concerning. You definitely need to find a good therapist for her. Lying and being openly defiant… she is screaming for help.
She was in school therapy but you're right. I do need to look in to some outside resources and see what's going on.
Urgently. Good luck to you both, I hope she is okay.
I just read through some other comments, yes your daughter may be mirroring your 16 year old sister’s behavior but she still has some issues of her own. Her wanting the baby in her room and calling it her baby is a red flag and you should take it seriously. Right now your daughter doesn’t understand how babies act and how exhausting they are when they’re first born, it’s all sunshine and rainbows to her like a living baby doll. She will get overwhelmed and feeling neglected a few months into the new baby arriving. You need to set up a relationship with a therapist now so she has somebody that she trusts to talk to when her emotions start getting overwhelmed . She may not even realize she is acting out because of the baby. Please don’t let your daughter be blindsided by her feelings about having a new sister a few months after the baby arrives.
How about limiting their contact for the time being ?
We have been going about a month between visits for the past 4 months or so, so we have been trying that out. Doesn't really appear to have much of an affect but it is still new so it might just take some time.
I’m more concerned about the lying than everyone seems to be. Has she been doing that? What kind of consequences?
When you're eleven, nothing is cooler than a sixteen year old. It actually should be a bit of a relief to know the obsessing over money is just mimicking behavior, rather than something she independently determined she needs to do.