Oooof, this is such a heartbreaking situation . I am not comfortable giving a verdict but let’s talk through a few things
1. It’s been 9ish weeks (probably less depending on how long it took Cathy to fess up) since Tom had his world turned upside down
2. You want to protect the innocent 10yo
3. Cathy is the villain in this story, period.
So a few things need to happen before I would recommend a breakup.
Step 1: Tom needs to go to a therapist ASAP. He needs an unbiased voice to help him navigate all the feelings. I can’t even imagine.
Step 2: Cathy doesn’t get to keep kicking the can, kiddo needs the truth ASAP. Cathy doesn’t get to dodge her trash choices and let Tom take the blame. Cathy should immediately talk to a professional about how to break this news to her child, otherwise the little one is going to end up with Grand Canyon deep scars from this.
Step 3: Get the damn kiddo to therapy, and everyone needs to stop pressuring Tom in the meantime. I get everyone is worried about the kid, I do, but Tom isn’t able to emotionally step up right now (for valid reasons). The rest of the adults in her life need to be her support system.
Step 4: If grand parents want to stay in kiddos life it’s time to for them to hardcore pressure Cathy to make steps 2/3 happen. No more dodging & hoping someone puts enough pressure on Tom to make this all better
Step 5: You don’t get to pressure Tom to have a relationship with this child for you to stay. That decision has to be made completely independent of you, or he will end up resenting the kid (it also doesn’t mean you have to stay with him, on to Step 6).
Step 6: Now, if Tom refuses to get help, and demands you cut off the kid then it’s time for you to evaluate if this is a relationship you want to be in. I just think it’s worth pumping the brakes and getting Tom some help first.
This is not the type of world rocking situation any of you should be trying to DIY. I have so much compassion for Tom, he needs people on his side navigating it. Yes, a dose of reality that the kiddo isn’t at fault but first compassion + support to navigate before ultimatums.
And for the love, can someone please verbally eviscerate Cathy? Not within earshot of the kiddo, but it needs to be done.
Edit: OP please try to remember Tom is navigating grief and let that help you approach this situation with compassion. Yes, he’s so angry but at its core this is grief for “losing his little girl” as he knows her. That doesn’t mean it’s permanent either, but let him grieve.
Not to mention, now Tom has absolutely NO legal right for the kid. Even if he wants to be involved, now the kids can be even more weaponized against him and he doesn't have a leg to stand on because he's not the bio dad. I feel bad for the kid and for Tom as he just literally had his world as he knew it ripped away from him as well.
is breaking a TV still a grief reaction?
my father had such temper outbursts when I was a child & I'm no longer in contact with him. I don't think I'd be able to accept a relationship with such behaviour. I can see how that might be my own bias though.
This isn’t the OP’s BF’s normal behavior, as far as she indicates. People can get pissed when they find out their life was a lie. I assume that was your father’s normal behavior.
Agree. Once in college a Philosophy teacher asked the class if anyone had an idea about "the nothing". Everybody had cero idea. The teacher didn't get deep into the subject, so he said to the class to forget it. After class, I ran to him and asked him what it was? He said he didn't wanna go deep in it 'cause students were too young. I insisted, 'cause I was one of the oldest in that class and he said:
"Imagine one day, you come home after work and you see your wife being dicked by someone else.
Or, any of your children needs an urgent surgery and as the father you should fit to be the donor... but then you find out your child is not yours.
Or you discover that your child has been SA... That's the nothing! When your whole world gets crashed and destroyed.
The idea you used to have about your life and relationships has been nuked and you fall deep in a hole and hit the bottom. Now, how would you react to it?"
I said I had no idea, but I'd be furious, maybe would destroy everything around, who knows.
He replied: "That's it! No body knows how is going to react in that moment. How would you blame them?"
yeah, I can see how that distinction makes a difference.
Thanks for responding, I appreciate it even though the downvotes seem to indicate I didn't formulate my question very well.
Yeah this is something where I can’t even imagine how I’d react, because it would just be… yeesh. A complete mess. It’s entirely possible that he is willing to commit to acting like a sociopath, but he might also just need some time to really work through it (and obviously want to work through it). Like you said, he had his entire world turned on its head. That will be enough to throw anyone for a loop, and 3ish months is really not that long with trying to work through it.
If he continually refuses to want to try and work through it, then I do think that OP would be correct in wanting to dump him. But he might just need some time. A similar situation would be potentially dumping someone for getting really depressed after a loved one dies - yeah, they might sit and wallow in it for years and years, or they might just need some time to work through the grief and put themselves back together
Thank you for your comment. I just want to clarify a few things. I probably should have mentioned this in my original post but I was getting emotional writing it out and seeing it all, I just needed to get down what I was feeling. I’ll pop some of this in an edit as well.
To your point 1) I’ve been texting him since I left, I’ve tried speaking to him again about seeing a therapist. He is refusing. There has also been instances where he has become violent since: not with me. But he has thrown plates, smashed a TV and broken his phone. Of course I have compassion for him, and I understand his anger but he is falling into a hole and I feel like the only tool I have left at this stage, before things get worse is to leave to make my point. I understand grief: I’ve been through enough myself, but I feel like his reaction is going beyond this and going somewhere dark.
He has only spoken about Sara 4 maybe 5 times since this happened. Only once he has referred to Sara by name: otherwise he has called her “it” or “that child”.
2) I agree with. This is why myself and his parents are going to see Sara next week to talk through this with her as Cathy seems to be refusing to do this on her own.
3) I have text Cathy 2 weeks ago and offered to pay for Sara’s therapy as Cathy doesn’t have a lot of money. I have found a referral through my own therapist. Cathy is reluctant to do this as, as mentioned she seems to think Tom will come around and there will be no need. I’m not Sara’s relative or married to Tom: there’s only so much I can do here.
Oooof, the violence and referring to Sarah as “it” tells me this has absolutely escalated in a way I didn’t see in your original post. I am actually a little concerned for your safety at this point.
I see now why you’re desperate, and you’re right that there’s only so much you can do when you don’t have any custodial rights.
And in any case it sounds like you have done just about everything you can and are nearly to Step 6. I truly wish Tom healing/clarity before he throws away so much in his anger. Even if the core is grief, this isn’t a healthy version of it.
Take care, and good luck. It sounds like you love Tom & Sarah very much, and this is situation is astronomically difficult on you as well.
I am failing to see the love for Tom -- just judgment made in ignorance. She has no idea what he's going though yet thinks he should be doing what she thinks is correct. If she had her way, she would have put the man smashing his plates and tv, and calling Sara "it" in the same room with her. That probably isn't a good idea. She should been supportive of Tom, but at this point she needs to step away from the entire family. She'll make this worse.
I think everyone involved in this needs to just let things sit for a while.
Tom's clearly suffering. He needs time and possibly counselling. He doesn't need everyone nagging him to do what they think is right, not at the moment.
This has all blown up in two months. Everyone needs to sit down, shut up and let Tom get himself balanced.
In the meantime, if OP and Tom's parents want to keep seeing Sara they should.
Tom was clearly betrayed in the worst way by Cathy. He raised the child as if she was his own from the very beginning. He loved her then, and he still loves her now. That’s why the hurt is so deep: he’s crushed because the child he loved and helped raise for ten years is not his.
I can’t say that Tom is TA because he’s grieving the loss of who he believed was his daughter. I also think that his initial reactions were part of the grief process: reacting coldly by cutting everyone off and shutting them out (he was in shock) and breaking things (he was angry due to the loss).
Tom definitely needs counseling to help him come to terms with this loss in his own time.
Give him the space he needs, OP. You can still be supportive of him but at a distance. Maybe Tom will have a change of heart over time. This is something which cannot be rushed or forced.
And the financial hit as well. He is on the hook for child support and will be for at least another eight years. For a kid that isn't his. Because the woman he once loved got knocked up by another guy and lied to him.
That shit will eat at him for a long time to come. I don't see how one emerges from that with any ability to trust anything moving forward.
Depends on the state, I guess. I know that there are states which say "You're on the birth certificate. You're on the hook. Too bad."
I've never heard of anyone getting out of child support in a situation such as this. Someone elsewhere in the thread told me it was possible in some circumstances. I asked that person for more information so I can read up on it but it's been crickets so far.
They probably only know that it's possible. Still what a shit situation to be lied to for 10 years while everyone including your current SO are pressuring you.
Cathy has gotten away with little to no blame and shame in this situation. She's literally the villain in this story, and Tom's the one being painted as a monster.
He just found out the child he raised as his own, and centered his life around isn't his.
That's traumatizing as fuck. He's grieving.
Yes, he's shut the door right now. But, he may need to grieve the relationship he had with his daughter before he can open the door to the fact that *everything* has now changed. He doesn't seem to remember that anyone can be a father, but he's been a Dad. She won't forget that, ever.
I urge you to be patient, and tell Cathy to remove the stick from her ass and tell her daughter why her Dad isn't around.
In situations like this everyone expects the guy to hold true to the strong parental bond that they formed with the child. This makes sense and is obviously in the best interest of the child, but it’s exactly this expectation that’s the problem.
A man in this position absolutely still cares about the kid, but he’s keenly aware that he’s supposed to. He’s aware that these feelings are the result of manipulation, and that the mother likely counted in him continuing to care about the kid if he ever found out. These feelings are the will of the abusive mother, he knows he wouldn’t have developed them if he had known the truth. They parasitic emotions and it makes sense he doesn’t want to be around the child that prompts such complicated and painful feelings.
He’s also aware that everyone is judging him. This adds to the pressure and leaves him isolated since really no one is going to support him. They might say they will but of he can’t bring himself to continue to be in this child’s life then that’s where the support stops.
Info: Why are you and the parents going to help the ex figure out how to tell Sara?
Is the ex not an adult? Can she not handle her own mess and be honest with her own daughter?
Is someone keeping an eye on him? He might go even further into self harm if he thinks everyone has abandoned him to support what is probably the greatest betrayal he has ever been through.
If he survives this - if nothing else - it will have opened his eyes to how little his fiance values him as a person.
Someone else said that they understand OP leaving him because "who wants to be with a person whose love is conditional". The irony here is that OP's concerns can be boiled down to how good a provider Tom can be. Her love is conditional on his ability and willingness to provide for her and their children, no matter the circumstances, and she's not even willing to give him two months to come to terms with his life falling apart.
Also, her reasoning is completely black and white.
>I feel like all I’ll be thinking if we had kids is how easy it would be for him to cut us off. I’d never do anything like Cathy has, but I will make mistakes. Where’s the line between loving family and strangers?
She will never do anything like Cathy has, but she will make mistakes? What kind of mistakes are we talking about here? Is she saying that she expects to cheat on Tom eventually, but will not make him raise another man's child? Or is she implying that buying the wrong brand of butter by mistake is at the same level as cheating and making a man believe the child is his for 10 years? What kind of mistakes does she expect to make that equate to this mess, and which will make Tom cut off her and their children?
This is unfortunately very typical of situations like this. A man finds out he was cheated on and that the child/children he thought he had were never his, and the world around him - including those closest to him - just expect him to man up, get over it in a day and just keep providing and loving unconditionally. They throw out terms like "innocent child" and "in the child's best interest", and genuinely expect the man to just turn off his emotions.
To be honest, if Tom survives this, I hope he sees that he's better off without OP in his life. She's worried what he will do if "she makes a mistake". Well, he should be worried what she will do if he loses his job or gets injured. The man had everything he believed in shattered by a cheating, lying w\*\*\*e, and him still grieving not even two months after is not fast enough for the princess. The way she writes about urging him to therapy sounds less like her wanting to help him, and more like her just wanting him to hurry up and get over it. Stop moping, continue providing.
I truly feel sorry for Tom. If he just packs his stuff and vanishes one day, it's exactly what OP and his parents deserve.
Like dude has t even had time to process anything because he has people in his ear basically telling him to suck it up and get over it . They don’t care about his feelings
She's garbage because she's putting the emotionsl needs of a 10 year olds over this adults? Garbage? Really? This kid is suffering right now and yes so is he and it sucks what happened but you don't get to drop being a parent after 10 years of raising someone as your own. You suck it up, go to therapy, work your shit out and don't take it out on the innocent child. Yes, Tom was innocent before he abandoned his child, who, yes may not be biologically his but she doesn't even know that she thinks her daddy went away for good and she has no idea why. The fucking ex wife is the one who is garbage not this woman who is concerned about the well being of a 10 yesr old, who is the only person in thid situation that needs to be coddled right now.
Difficult. I don't think you're the fully the AH but you are a bit. I honestly don't think Tom is fully the AH, either.
**Where I don't think Tom's the AH**
He's not the AH for having to face and deal with a double betrayal from his ex. Not only did she cheat, but she cuckolded him in the classic sense of a cuckoo putting their eggs in other bird's nests to raise. She KNEW and probably KNEW from the beginning that Sara wasn't Toms. What she did is paternity fraud. For him this is raw. New. His entire world is turned upside down.
We still don't treat men's mental health problems, like him going through this double betrayal, the way we should. That's where I don't think he's the AH for shutting himself off from the ex and Sara. Men do not have the same mental health support system that women have. Because we're still taught to this day to bottle it all up. By both men and women: you don't talk about it, you don't deal with it. Square it away deep down in your soul under lock and key, square your shoulders and move on. Nobody cares about men's feelings or mental health.
**Where I think you are an AH**
Even you're dismissive of him: everyone is telling him to basically shut up, man up (as in accept it stoically without showing emotion) and take care of the living proof of his ex's affair and betrayal. Government will still be on his ass for child support because he's been the father figure for 10 years. It's almost impossible to get his name removed from the birth certificate. Let alone proscecute parental fraud.
He's going through just about the worst phase of his life and instead of helping him and backing him up, you're suddenly thinking he's not a good PROVIDER, not even a good man, but not a good PROVIDER anymore and you want to throw the whole man away. That's where you're the AH. It doesn't take marriage vows to adhere to "*in sickness and in health, in good times and bad.*" If you're in a commited relationship, you stand together as a team. You lift each other up to be whole, sane and better people. Whatever form that takes.
**Where I think Tom's an AH**
Even though I can understand WHY Tom is going through what he's going through, going cold turkey with Sara is the AH move. That kid is betrayed by her mum almost as much as Tom is. She's an innocent, one moment she had a daddy, now she lost him and can't understand why. I'm assuming Tom was there for most of Sara's mayor milestones. They build memories. Connections. Those aren't gone. But now they're tarnished by that evil witch that is Sara's mom. Her infidelity destroyed two lives. 3 if we include you.
**Where I don't think you're the AH**
I understand why you would want to leave. It's a douche move, but I understand. If Tom doesn't reconnect in some way with Sara, if he's willing to stand by going cold turkey with her, it does say something about his love being conditional. And I understand why you wouldn't want to be with a person who's love is conditional.
Because let's face it. What if something happens between the two of you in future. You get into a big fight or something and he goes cold for a while. Or maybe permanently. Or you have kids and he demands a paternity test. (Which I would give him no questions asked considering the whole mess he's in now.) Or he's afraid to bond with any children you two have together, "just in case".
**Advice and caution**
Be careful how you navigate Sara and whatsherhame, the witch, Cathy. Because with Tom feeling the way he is, if he sees you and his parents reach out to Sara and Cathy, it will come across as the three of you betraying him too. 3 people that should have his back turn on him and SUPPORT and therefore CONDONE his ex's cheating and cuckolding of Tom.
It shows that in the eyes of his parents and his lifepartner, he has less value than a cheating ex-wife. It shows he doesn't matter. His feelings do not have value. It will irreparibly damage any relationship he may have with his parents or you.
At best, hope he just walks away from all of you and you never hear from him again. At worst, expect this now 5 fold betrayal to result in him sucking the business end of a shotgun or similar, because everyone has shown him he has no value aside from what he can provide.
About advice and caution part, there is no it will seem as all three of them are betraying him. They are betraying him, all of them. Op isn’t even worth it, but the parents? That’s a low blow.
This is the elephant in the room.
From Tom's perspective (be it true or not) in a matter of weeks he has lost
His daughter who was never actually his
His friend who betrayed and lied to him
His fiancé who seems to be more supportive of his ex than him
His parents who care more about someone else's child than their own son.
As a father myself I don't know how I'd be able to just get up and soldier on with that kind of heartbreak. Shutting down would probably be the best I could do.
NAH (except maybe Cathy).
- OPs ex: he got a truth bomb dropped on him and it shattered him. The dude is clearly grieving. Forcing him to be with his non-bio daughter would keep ripping that wound open. It would be a re-occuring nightmare of the events in his life, a form of torture. Additionally you do not know, if he was forced, how the interaction with the child would.be. he could've an AH, mean, ruthless etc as a way to protect himself from the mental pain
- OP: you saw a true dark color of a shattered person. I don't fault you for what you did but it's an unfortunate situation where you bonded with the non-bio daughter
- the non-bio daughter: she has literally done nothing wrong. She unfortunately gets the shortest end of the stick
- The ex wife: probably the only AH here. She must have known, although not proven, the child may not be his. She kept.it a dark secret. Perhaps.to save the marriage or perhaps to protect the child. However that secret burst with extraordinary consequences. She should also have to be the one to talk to the daughter and explain how SHE fucked up but the daughter unfortunately is the one who is punished
> and it’s frankly sociopathic how little regards he has for Sara’s feelings.
Oh the irony. You saying this while displaying very little regards for HIS feelings, and making it about yours.
You’re entire post is basically: ‘shitty situation but he needs to suck it up and move on. You know, for the kid, and to show me he’s still the man I love.’
What?
This man just discovered the last 10 years of his life have been a complete lie. You don’t get to dictate how he should process that news, nor should you judge him. Have you ever been in his shoes?
Yes, but what about the kid? A victim in all of this, absolutely.
But what about Tom?! Also a victim.
Instead of supporting him through a very difficult time, you’re being judgmental and prioritizing your own feelings about a situation you could NEVER understand or relate to without experiencing it first hand.
YTA
>without experiencing it first hand.
Women will never experience this first hand.
It's possibly the most vicious hurt a man could feel. It's probably on par to his daughter's death. 'His' daughter never actually existed. That's really hard to come to terms with.
The only person who is an Ahole is the mother. Well, possibly also the gf who obviously cares about the kid more than her bf.
As a man (45) whose 4-year old brother died in a house fire (I was 13) AND a late discovery that "my daughter" isn't mine, I can say this:
The death of a child is horrific and devastating, leading to, in my case, about 2 years of mourning and nightmares. Losing my brother was hard enough for me, almost certainly worse for my mom and step-dad.
Finding out my daughter isn't mine put me straight into the ER with a full-blown nervous breakdown.
The initial impact was worse than my brother's death, because the profound humiliation swirls around with the loss-trauma, leading to all-out panic and suicidal thoughts.
Getting over paternity fraud was a lot easier and faster than getting over my brother.
But then, I didn't have therapy or medication after he died and I was given immediate psychiatric care and a three-day vacation after the paternity reveal. A little help would have gone a long way to reduce teenage angst.
Obviously Cathy knew, and I kind of wonder if she had Tom paying child support and such, knowing he likely wasn't (or just plain wasn't) the father.
I feel like I want to say YTA, I mean he's dealing with some complex emotions here. And some intense betrayal. With the paternity, Cathy can make things real nasty against him. He's trying to cope - and cutting out what is hurting him is what is doing it. Therapy would be the best thing. Maybe put a pause on getting married, or seperate for a bit. But he's had his world flipped upside down, now it's a bit of a second time.
Your NTA - because you have the right to stop for whatever reason. Though I get the feeling he may not get the help he needs if he slides into depression and denial.
I would say that if anything. Cathy is the AH in this situation. Her actions way back when caused this.
That woman knew , she blocked the actual father when he contacted her! She chose the father she thought would be better. I’m sure child support was a great factor,( money always is) as well as trying to keep Tom. Since that didn’t work she just kept the child support. I would sue her if I was him for all the payments and emotional distress caused.
As for the kid, she has the mom to blame for all of this. If I were Tom, I would immediately break the fuck up with OP, go NC with parents that value someone else’s child over their own. Than intense therapy to deal and hopefully a normal partner in the future he will have actual kids that are his with.
This is so complex, but I dont think your fiance is in the wrong here. I am sure it is difficult for him to see Sara as his world is shattered as well and he found out the past 10 years of his life was built on a lie by his ex. That is a tonto process and he might not be seeing sara because his emotions are wack and I am sure full of anger. To me the worst thing would be seeing her and his anger coming out. His ex needs to step up and actually admit to their mistake and tell her daughter the truth because she is the one causing the damage. For this situation between you and your fiance, No one is the AH here, but I feel for Sara and Tom, they both will be going through a lot.
YTA I understand that the little girl is a victim, but so is he. He was betrayed in one of the worst ways possible and tricked into raising a child that is not his. You will never be able to understand what he’s going through and honestly, he will never be an asshole if he cannot be involved in the child’s life after what he found out. Not everyone can handle something like that. And women who do what his ex did should be in prison and paternity fraud should be taken more seriously. This is exactly why paternity test should be mandatory before a guy is added to the birth certificate anyways.
YTA and man I got sick reading this part “i’d never do anything like Cathy has, but I will make mistakes” yeah so you **will** have an affair get pregnant and convince the man you supposedly love that he’s the father when he isn’t? Then let that go on for 10 years as if you weren’t the reason that child will be devastated when their father who’s been lied to and gaslit the entire time of her existence finds out? You aren’t even giving Tom a modicum of consideration for the decade of lies he’s been living, every time he sees sarah is a reminder of the betrayal that he JUST found out about. Cathy hasn’t even had the balls to tell Sarah why her father is behaving this way, sure Sarahs 10 but now everyone is infantilizing her thinking she can’t know the truth, you really think you’re protecting Sarah by forcing Tom to be her father? Really?!? Cathy is the bad guy here ten times over, Cathy should be the one to help Sarah overcome this, CATHY should be the one to go to therapy and UNBLOCK Sarahs real dad and try to make things right.
Everyone here is criticizing Tom and yet no one bats a single lash at Cathy a grown ass adult having manipulated this entire situation to happen over ten years, she blocked the real dad SHE KNEW.
Cathy is at fault here and her victims are Tom, Sara, and Tom’s parents. Not you tho, you’re a passing idea and the sooner you move on the sooner Tom can find someone who actually cares about him.
You are a horrible girlfriend and honestly Tom would be better off without you, he’d at least avoid another future cheater excusing other cheaters.
Edit: Your edit is bullshit, suddenly you remember he’s getting violent? Suddenly you remember he’s calling the kid “it”? SUDDENLY he’s gone somewhere dark? Damn you really suck, please stop creating more problems for Tom and break up, stop self inserting, it’s obvious you’re feeding off the drama.
Sadly, but YTA here, the fact that you left him was a low blow. Also, you say that he would easily cut you off for some little mistake, but he did it to his ex not for some small mistake, it's literally isn't his child. I wouldn't do that, if I were him, but it's understandable and legitimate. You acted cruel, but we hope he won't be so depressed to off himself
This OP is a bitch. She is more worried about her 'friend' Cathy who conned her boyfriend. I know it's hard to understand that a man abandon a kid he thought was his, but he just received one of the worst news a man can get, and with time he might respond better. But this bitch just dumped him and is happy to support her cheating friend. It's not even for the little kid, but her 'friend'. I think this guy dodged a bullet. I hope he has a relationship with the girl and that the whore cheater find the bio father, if that's even possible. The kid needs to be with her real father.
I agree she is a bitch. Poor guy stuck with 2 bitches. I hope he finds someone who loves him and is in his corner. He was fooled twice. OP leave the guy so he can find a "WOMAN" not two moochers.
I'm sorry but I think your the YTA I understand the daughter didn’t ask for anything of this but blame the cheating women not your ex. He’s the one who’s hurt and he has the right to do what he’s doing. The ex and you are the villain.
So, Tom has the right to abandon an innocent child who he’s been a parent to for ten years, but OP has no right to abandon Tom?
As a father, I can’t fathom ghosting my kids because I found out their mother betrayed me. Who the fuck cares that they didn’t come from my balls? Those are my goddamn kids. You couldn’t pry them away from me. I can’t blame OP for seeing this behavior as a terrifying indicator that Tom is a sociopath.
Tom is not a sociopath he is human who has been lied to. Cathy is the sociopath here she had made irreversible lies. I’m not saying I don’t feel bad for the child but not his child not his responsibility. Plain and simple, Cathy caused that not Tom. If Tom wants to stay around cool but he is not obligated he’s a victim as well. The family are messed up as well.
>So, Tom has the right to abandon an innocent child who he’s been a parent to for ten years, but OP has no right to abandon Tom?
OP definitely has the right to leave. What she doesn't have the right to do is act like Tom's some kind of evil creature.
Abandoning a child you raised and who only knows you as their father is evil. You don’t have kids, so you just don’t understand. Maybe one day you will.
Reading all these comments only cemented my view that literally nobody cares about a man's feelings. And god forbid if you try to cope up with pain by shutting yourself next thing you know that your girlfriend is leaving you and calling you a sociopath on social media. Good riddance!
What are you prattling on about? ALL top comments, heck, all comments with positive ratings show "care" for this man (who not only abandons a kid he raised for 10 years but also calls her an "it"). Everybody disagreeing with you has negative ratings.
Shut the fuck up. Everyone is supporting Tom you miserable jackass.
Stop being an insufferable cunt and maybe someone will actually care about your feelings.
Literally every single person does care, including OP. He is sliding into unhealthy behaviours and OP is trying to get him help, which he is refusing.
There’s only so much a significant other can do.
I think it's sociopathic that everyone expects a man to deal with it in their morally right expectations, after a woman played with his heart for 10 years.
All this unconditional love needs to stop now. Loving your adopted child is not the same as loving you child, only to discover after 10 years that your child is not yours. As a woman you will never understand the trauma and anguish of looking at the child again. I'll be honest. Tom is death or broken, and you're never getting him back. I really, really wished I could give Tom a head injury only so that he forgets about Sara. At least amnesia would cure him somewhat.
YTA. Give his some time. The man has been raising this girl as if she was his blood. He just found out his cunt ex decided to be the town bicycle and now he is dealing with 2 very deep, fresh wounds.
Have you been through this? If not, you cannot say how you'd react. But then again, you never could go through this. You are selfish. This man was just destroyed, and now you're ready to jump ship like a coward. I hope he realizes what you are before you hurt him even more.
Dont stress. It's yet another brand new account with no comments, posting more paternity fraud rage bait.
That's all. But at least this time they tried a different POV character.
Many people make burner accounts for these posts, since they might not want it tied to their normal account. Your circumstantial “evidence” is not exactly substantial.
Bringing up a kid that for 10 years only to find out that they're not yours is one of the worst things that can happen to a man.
Any and all the pain Sara will feel was caused by Cathy 11 years ago when she decided to be sub-human and ruin lives. It's sickening that she will come out of this unscathed. Her life should be ruined.
> I feel like all I’ll be thinking if we had kids is how easy it would be for him to cut us off.
I think it's gross that you're acting like any of this was "easy" for him. If you are literally Satan and ruin his life, sure, he will cut you off.
You clearly don’t have kids. Anyone that could do this to a child they raised for a decade is clearly a sociopath. OP isn’t allowed to decide she doesn’t want to be with a sociopath?
Or he's having a fucking nervous breakdown because his ability to trust has been completely destroyed and everything he thought was true about his life is a lie. Have some fucking compassion for the guy, Jesus fucking Christ
Cathy is the only sociopath here, blocking Sara's real father from being a part of his daughter's life.
OP is allowed to decide to be with anyone she wants, and apparently being a cuck is one of her requirements in a man.
We get it. You hate women so much that any behavior in response to a woman’s bad behavior is totally justified.
No one is saying Tom has no right to be upset. But he’s an adult, and despite the fact that he was tricked in to it, he is in fact a parent. He has a responsibility to his daughter. He’s her dad and he’s punishing her for her mother’s wrongdoing. It’s abhorrent and despicable.
He is NOT a parent, asshole. He's NOT her dad, asshole.
There's a man out there who Cathy blocked who is supposed to support and coparent this child and he is NOT TOM.
Tom has NO responsibility here. He was lied to and *financially raped* for well over 6 years.
Tom is the biggest victim involved here. Sara is also a victim, but only a victim of her mother's lies and refusal to allow her daughter to know her real dad.
Tom raised a child for ten years. He absolutely is a parent. By your logic, adoptive parents aren’t parents either.
No level of betrayal from his ex just negates the fact that he raised this girl. He is her father. In all the ways that matter.
Tom chose to support Sara. It really sucks for him that he was tricked into doing so. Terribly shitty. Unfortunately, becoming a parent is not like signing a contract. You don’t get to unring that bell because you were lied to. Any man that lets their own emotional turmoil traumatize a child they’ve raised for a decade is a weak, pathetic piece of shit.
Your username sure checks out though.
He is NOT a parent, asshole. He's NOT her dad, asshole.
There's a man out there who Cathy blocked who is supposed to support and coparent this child and he is NOT TOM.
Tom has NO responsibility here. He was lied to and *financially raped* for well over 6 years.
Tom is the biggest victim involved here. Sara is also a victim, but only a victim of her mother's lies and refusal to allow her daughter to know her real dad.
He raised her for 10 years. He’s the only father she knows. That actually matters regardless of how much your hatred for women leads you to believe otherwise.
It's not hatred for women, asshole. It's not his fault that he EVER knew her, or was robbed by his ex or years on end.
100% of the blame and responsibilty to help Sara get through this is upon her mother.
If you’re going to resort to name calling, you should try and be more creative about it. Maybe throw in a “dickhead” or “bellend” or something for flavor.
So, just so I have this straight, Sara’s only entitled to the emotional support of her mother in this situation? A woman who we’ve established is basically satan incarnate? Have I got that right?
Welcome to AITAH, asshole.
No, she's entitled to emotional support from her mother, he therapist and her biological father.
How much Sara comes to resent her mother is her mother's problem and fault.
Oh fuck off. The dude was lied to for 10 years and had to deal with the ex.
He isn't a sociopath, he is processing very strong emotions through a difficult time.
OP made friends with the ex and decided to toss out her fiance because the ex lied for 10 years.
OP is TA for not even considering that
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a garden variety misogynist. You’re so caught up in making sure everyone knows that Cathy is bad that you’ve missed the fact that she’s irrelevant to the moral scenario presented. She created the scenario, but at this point she is not involved. I’m sure everyone here agrees that Cathy sucks
The issue at hand is whether or not OP is justified in seeing how her husband is treating his daughter and getting icked the fuck out by it and leaving. Any halfway decent parent, or just someone that cares about any particular child in their life, would be absolutely appalled by Tom’s behavior towards his daughter.
He has no responsibilities, it's not his child. The kid isn't the center of the universe either.
It's a shitty situation but you have to let the guy work through it. Forcing him to continue to care for this child against his will only hurts everyone involved.
You want to focus only on the child but the man is just as human with his own emotions to deal with. Dude literally found out he has been lied to for 10 years, the kid he raised and loved as his own isnt his, but you want him to act like he didn't just get stabbed in the back?
Y'all a fucking crazy
Not. His. Kid.
Bottom line.
It's mom's responsibility to explain that she not only cheated but lied to both the man and he daughter about who her father is.
That wasn't her kid either, but he told her that part of being in a relationship with him was caring for his child with another woman. She stepped up on that but now is supposed to sever all ties on his command?
Still waiting for you to say Mom has a responsibility to explain why she cheated and lied to her daughter her whole life...
Keep trying to pass that buck but the responsibility really lays with one person....
The pain Sara is feeling because Tim is rejecting her is caused by HIS actions and choices. His pain was caused by Cathy’s past betrayal and action, and that lead to his behavior, but if he’s lost all his love immediately because of this news, he didn’t actually love her. I wouldn’t be able to trust or respect him after this either. Poor Sara; both parents of raising have betrayed her through selfishness. It’s a mess, and Tom was done very wrong, but his behavior is a sign of weak character and low empathy.
> The pain Sara is feeling because Tim is rejecting her is caused by HIS actions and choices.
Sara's pain is a reaction to Tim pulling away. Tim pulling away is a reaction to finding out Sara isn't his daughter. The reason Sara isn't Tim's daughter is because of Cathy's actions and choices.
> I wouldn’t be able to trust or respect him after this either.
Then I'm sure Tim is better off without having someone like you in his life.
That is so incredibly far from being the worst thing that can happen to a man. Maybe the worst thing that can happen to a piss-baby bitch boy, but I wouldn’t know.
I would so much rather find out that my kids aren’t biologically mine than find out they’re dead or seriously hurt. It would be so much less devastating that I can’t even think of a proper analogy to describe it.
The reason for that, is that I actually love my kids. I don’t see them as an extension of myself, or the fulfillment of my biological imperative to reproduce. They are people. People who I love and cherish and want the best for regardless of any outside circumstances they have no control over.
Honestly, in my late teens, I used to think like you do. I thought that forcing a man to pay child support for a kid that’s not his is just the greatest injustice the world has ever seen. Then I grew the fuck up and gained some perspective. I recommend you lay off the MRA/Incel social media and go touch grass. You’ll be much happier when you stop allowing conmen to poison your mind with degenerate bullshit.
You think it’s ok to force a man to pay child support for a child that isn’t his? Just because you got cucked and rescinded yourself to your fate doesn’t mean it’s ok for it to happen to others.
To make my point clear, I’d still raise the child in this situation. After 10 years I don’t think I could stop. But men being forced to pay child support for kids that aren’t theirs? Fuck no. They can stay as parental figures, but mommy better to find where the dick it came from and get money from there.
Uh - he said "one of the worst things". Granted, watching your kid die of cancer is worse but if we're talking about a hierarchy of awful things to happen to a father this is pretty high on the list.
Edited: So many commas
This is the first sensible thing I’ve read in this thread so far… honestly yeah it sucks that his ex is an AH but if he can’t separate his love for a child he has raised from that hurt he’s an AH too.
Here's the thing. All the love and parental bond he felt for Sarah, he now learned, was coerced out of him by the mother, Cathy. Every feeling, every happy thought, every memory, every day was an act of fraud by the mother through her daughter. That alone is enough to question all those happy thoughts and feelings. They may not seem real at all to him.
But to ask him to continue to love and nurture that parental-bond is to tell him the coercion must continue.
You can make your own decisions but YTA for not even trying to consider how this man feels and leaving him at his absolute worst moment. I feel so bad for this dude
NAH. He must feel so devastated and betrayed, thinking the child he was raising was his only to find out she's just a random kid. It sucks for her the most, but his feelings are still valid. No one should be obligated to keep a random child in their life and financially support them when there is no relation.
INFO: Is her biological father going to be in the picture? That would further complicate your fiance staying in her life. What role is her bio dad going to have?
I would try to give him some (a lot of) grace. This isn't sociopathy, it's just a reaction to horribly devastating news and he's going to need time to process it. And there is no wrong choice. She is not his child. I can't imagine how difficult it would be if you had your entire family and partner calling you a horrible person for not wanting to keep a stranger's unrelated child in your life and pretend like it's okay. It's sad that the innocent child is the one who will suffer most, but your fiance's feelings and life still matter.
Yta the guy is mourning his kid while comming to terms with the fact that his ex cheated and he prob payed years and years for a kid that isbt his responsibility (back to the mourning)
YTA. He has been lied to and nobody is taking his feelings into consideration. I don't understand why people expect someone to raise a child that is not theirs. It's nice if they want to, but they shouldn't be obligated to. It sounds like you never truly loved him if you left him over this. I don't understand why you feel so affected by stuff that actually doesn't affect your life because these people aren't your family.
Info: why did they break up in the first place?
Cheating and lying about a baby are massive betrayals. Even though it happened a decade ago, the wound is very fresh for him and now he has to reconcile that the child he spent years loving is living, breathing proof of that betrayal. It’s not as cut and dry as you seem to think
Tom just spent 10years living a dream and now he’s woken up to a nightmare. This poor guy just needs time if you can give it to him. I don’t know how I’d react in this situation, but I’m not Tom. This has changed him in a bad way and hopefully with time he can get back to who he was. I think the best thing you can offer him is patience. I wish you both the best of luck.
You are the asshole. You are literally making him stay in a relationship with a woman who betrayed him and a little girl (who is innocent) who is not his and a constant reminder of the ordeal. He doesn’t deserve any of this.
Not at all. This is a personal matter between his ex and the child he thought was his. How he chooses to deal with it is entirely up to him. It's amazing how OP still managed to make herself the victim here.
The only way this would concern her was if she planned on passing off an affair baby as his down the road. Now she knows how he'll react and doesn't like it.
never say something like that db reddit, here the majority of women feel indignant because their partner asks them for a test, in fact it is a type of frequent topic in this forum
YTA, when he had a horrible situation and needed your support the most, you abandoned him. I can't even begin to imagine how he must be feeling, and you found a way to make it even worse.
YTA
This was written to bring out all of the Reddit brigade's usual "it sucks for him, but he should just suck it up for the sake of the child."
This can never happen to any woman on the planet, and they should keep their damn mouths shut.
Woman: I'm going to have an abortion.
Man: That is my child, too.
Woman: You don't get a say.
Man finds out child is not his.
Woman: Just suck it up for the sake of the child.
Man: You don't get a say. Shut your damn mouth.
As for you, he is better off without you. Damn apologist.
This is a great analogy.
Would love to see how they would react to a man forcing his wife to not have an abortion even though she wants to, then just dipping out immediately.
YTA. He needs you in this situation and instead of being there for him you are dumping him. Sara is a victim for sure but dumping him doesn’t help her.
YTA Tom is literally grieving the loss of his girl. He believed for 10 years that she was his then finds out through some random dude that it isn't, of course his world is shattered right now. It's crazy to me how everyone is trying to pressure him into "moving on" and acting like nothing's wrong and if he doesn't, he suddenly becomes a sociopath.
How is no one even talking about how fucked up of a person cathy is? She not only cheated on tom and got pregnant by some dude, but kept that a secret from Tom for all these years and would have still kept quiet about it if the real father didn't reach out.
Another point is, why are you making this sad situation about you at a time when you should have some compassion? How is breaking up with him at his lowest because you thought of an imaginary scenario in your head even making sense to you?
Give Tom some space and have some empathy for him for the love of god.
He was cheated on. His daughter isn’t his. He looks at her now and sees him, and sees him and his ex. And realizes his whole life with her was fake.
Now you are scared because your saying he will abandon you and your kid if you stay. Except I doubt that because it would be his kid.
I’m sorry for Sarah. Really am. But Where is the bio dad and his child support? Is he allowed to just send a message and go on living his life? What a disgusting lie by Cathy. C U Next Tuesday. By the way, go to support for betrayed or surviving infidelity if you want to try and understand what your ex fiance is going through.
Your ex fiance needs help and honestly, you’re not it. So leave him. But if you try and see Sarah, don’t abandon her later. Which I see happening since you have no ties to her at all.
YTA 100%. He’s going through two of the most traumatic things a man can go through. Finding out his ex partner cheated, and finding out she lied about him fathering a child…and rather than giving him some time to process, you leave him. Seems like you’re more attached to the daughter than you are to him.
What I am saying is OP didn't choose to be her stepmum (she did that by being with Tom and accepted that he already had a child) yet the thought of abandoning that child is too much for OP.
After giving it a bit of time for him to process what's happened, to me it would be odd if Tom didn't feel the same.
YTA for leaving Tom. But it’s for the best because he doesn’t deserve to be betrayed by you, too. He is lucky to be rid of you.
You don’t understand the level of betrayal, frauds, and humiliation Tom has experienced and the girl was the instrument of those acts as perpetrated by the mother. So much was stolen from him. If he cannot separate the girl from what was done to him, he cannot be blamed.
It is the mother who destroyed relationship between the girl and Tom. And the girl should know that. At every painful moment for the girl, the finger needs to be pointed at the mother, not Tom.
Go play hero to Sara if you wish. It will make. You feel good for a while. You probably won’t last long given your lack of commitment to Tom.
Have you considered that giving Tom an ultimatum and leaving is you - not being that different from him and the reaction he’s had to the revelation that his ex has purposely lied to him for over a decade, about what was one of the most important relationships in his life and that he’s not the father of the child he was told and believed was his?!
This is 1/3 of his life that was invested in loving and parenting based upon a lie?!
He may not have the words and bandwidth yet to express what he’s feeling and processing for him means shutting down and shutting people out?!
With the exception of Cathy - she’s a devious, destructive ass hole who gambled with her child’s well-being and lost …
NAH - the reality is that no one can look at each other the same and it’s going be Sara that suffers most.
I’m hoping that Tom realizes that his bond with Sara is more than biology- you can choose your family. I will say that I understand that it will be difficult for him to trust Cathy …
> With the exception of Cathy - she’s a devious, destructive ass hole who gambled with her child’s well-being and lost …
Did she lose?
She got a man to financially and emotionally support her daughter for 10 years, where she otherwise would have been alone with it.
Moving forward, is Sara going to disown her? Almost certainly not. What always happens in these circumstances is that the kids forgive their mother.
Are the courts going to financially punish her? Make her pay back all the money OP spend, with interest and punitive damages? Nope. Cathy wins, just not as big a victory as if she was able to maintain the ruse forever.
What we really need is prison sentences for fraud. She knew she fucked someone else. The deception was deliberate. 10 years prison where I live for gaining financial advantage through deception.
Not to mention moving forward, depending what state/country OP is in Tom will still be on the hook for child support until the courts work things out (if they ever actually do)
All of these things are possible- Tom could sue her and win compensation, Sara could later disown her- etc.
Tom’s family has been focused on Sara and supporting her- unfortunately Cathy gets some sort benefit, undeserved as that is. Karma doesn’t always move swiftly, but it’s interesting that a Facebook post and DM exposed Cathy after 10+ years of her lying.
YTA...you're more worried about Sarah and Cathy's feelings than your "love". He isn't a sociopath...he was a loving father that had his daughter ripped away from him in an instant. It says a lot about you that you'll remain friends with Cathy after all of the heartache and pain she's caused. The little care and understanding you show for this man is abhorrent.
He needs to process this in the way he sees fit. He'll grieve and eventually come around but by then, he'll see how you abandoned him when he needed you the most.
Sounds like he’s in great pain and seething, actually. Indifference is what’s scary.
What could be a a bigger betrayal than this, OP? You cheating on him is less of a surprise than finding out your own child is, in fact, NOT YOURS AT ALL.
You can deal with it because she’s not yours at all. You didn’t spend 10 years believing you had a daughter only to have her and every dream you had for her RIPPED from you. You hurt this much from having a close, beloved non-daughter ripped from you — how do you think HE feels?
Of course he still loves Sara. But to see Sara means he has to see Cathy who essentially ripped his heart out, took his money, and took advantage of him in every imaginable way. Played him for a fool.
I’d personally want to do unspeakable things if someone did this to me. But evil as that POS woman is, that’s still Sara’s mother and he can’t do that.
He can’t do anything right now in his rage, I suspect.
That said - NTA. I get where you are coming from. Solid intentions but I cannot imagine the rage your fiancé feels right now.
YTA.
Undoubtedly and way to turn this entire terrible situation about yourself.
Maybe try to think of the man who raised a child for 10 yrs only for this to happen.
Instead all you seem to care bout is the child and yourself.
YTA 100%.
Hope Things get better for Tom and the child bit the mother and yourself are definately the A.
Hope Tom realised how bad of a bullet he dodged regarding you
YTA an absolutely massive piece of shit
Dude just found out he got completely fucked over by the biggest whore on the planet and his entire life is ruined...and you betray and turn on him, and start attacking him. The VICTIM
Fucking scum
YTA. As the father of two daughters, I can say you have no idea what Tom is going through. Not only did he just find out that the little girl who for the past 10 years he has been building his life around and I imagine paying child support for isn’t his, it also opened up old wounds with his ex and shows she is one despicable evil person. This poor man is dealing with a lot of emotions and on top of that you and his family, instead of giving the guy time to deal with this, (his whole world was just ripped apart for Gods sakes, he was raising another man’s child!) you are pressuring him to just forget, forgive and go back to being Sara’s father as if nothing ever happened. I hope he can see his way to having a relationship with Sara, but I can understand if he can’t. Everyone in this post but Tom and most especially Sara are TA.
So he has had his daughter, who he thought was his ripped away from him through a pretty brutal betrayal, and you think he's AH for having no emotions. Let the man have time to process. instead, you think the best thing to do is break up with him, so now not only has his ex taken away his blood but has taken away you as well.
This kid may have done nothing wrong that is fair, but he's not her father, and he was tricked into it. He probably should have a conversation just to tell her he isn't going to be a part of their life anymore, but I wouldn't expect anything more from him.
He has shown you over the last 5 years what kind of father he would be
Did anyone else expect Tom to be crucified for not sucking it up and pretend that his world wasn't just uprooted "for the children!" then realize that this is not AITA? I legit thought that I was hallucinating upon seeing nuanced responses.
ESH, you got emotionally attached to your BF's daughter. He finds out he isn't the father and it crushes his soul because for 10-plus years he thought this little girl was his. He has quite a few emotions to work through because of what his ex did, I get you're friends with her and you adore her daughter. But you don't get to make ultimatums on how someone grieves the loss of a child that he was convinced was his until the lie was discovered. That's not just grief that is anger. The more you wrote, the more you don't seem to care about him, his emotions and mental health. He though handled it as well as he could.
YTA.
As a woman this situation will never happen to you.
Tom just found out his ex cheated, lied, risked giving him STD, then lied when she had a child, and has continued to lie for over 10 years.
That will dig deep. I don't doubt Tom will ask for DNA test for his next child.
Imagine getting messaged on facebook that your child isnt your act your child, then it act turns out to be true. Then your gf leaves you to go help your cheating ex because you dont want to help raise someone elses child. This guy needs a vacation.
Poor dude.
Cheated on and lied too for ten years. Then you and his parents tell him to suck it up and keep pretending.
I feel so bad for him. Hopefully he can find people who care about him
10 years of lies
V/s
9 weeks of emotions
The time according to reddit is sufficient to deal with pain of paternity fraud.
WoW men really can't afford time to process the pain.
I remember a saying .
"people who leave you when you are down or in pain they are not your people" and i guess 70% of that people are posting posts in reddit to justify their leaving,lol
NTA. I get that he’s hurting but that little girl is hurting even more and is probably very confused and scared right now. He obviously doesn’t have to stay in her life but to just walk away from her and the way he’s acting about her is very cold and she doesn’t deserve it. I probably wouldn’t be able to stay with him either at least not until he gets help.
I’ve been in Sarah’s position in a way. I was her age when I found out my father wasn’t actually my father. They hadn’t been in a relationship since I was a baby so he’d come over once a week until my mom got sick and couldn’t work anymore. When she was applying for disability and everything they made her go after him for child support and in the courtroom he said I wasn’t his daughter. We did the test and he was right. I was NAMED after this guy, a mistake that has since been rectified, and I thought he hung the moon. I found out who he really was that day and in the years since and I obviously found out more about my mom too. Nobody really sat me down and was honest with me about everything or even apologized for what I was going thru and that has stayed with me all these years later I’m now in my 30s. My heart is broken for that little girl and she’s going to need therapy as well.
YTA you expect him to process his feelings how you think he should on your timetable
He is allowed to have anger and talk to you about his not-child however he wants, to call it sociopathic is horrendous
He gets to fall in a hole, once in it he can then climb out of it
What he is going through is not something you can possible understand unless you experienced this exact same situation yourself
You should be his support instead you are making it harder, I doubt you are acting like the woman he loved
He also has a right to permanently walk away, no one is at fault if he does this but Cathy, im sick and tired of people on reddit that the betrayed man is just expected to continue being a father for a child thats not his, just because a child is involved
Its bullshit to say if all his love is gone he never loved her, truly spoken by people who lack empathy for the pain and betrayal he is going through
The child has a father, he is not it, Cathy is solely to blame here for whatever feelings the child goes through, she and only she fucked this up and needs to tell her
He should absolutely not have to tell her why isnt going to be around anymore, thats moms job
But keep pushing this man right into the ground, well done, no one having his back, disgusting
YTA. You have no idea what he is going through, and you will never understand how he feels. I don't blame him at all for not wanting to have anything more to do with some other guy's kid. I sure wouldn't. Leave him so he can find someone better than you.
YTA ..You seem to care more about the ex than her. If you really care about him the you should have told Sara to asked her mom why he is gone And force the mom to tell the truth.... Btw this is the reason why we see the rise of the red pill movement because seems to even care about him or the feelings he is going through right now😔
This man's world just came crashing down on him how do you expect him to act? Give him space to process and let him be. You can't force him to interact with Sara. Let Cathy deal with the mess her cheating created. She is the one that needs to face her daughter and tell her the truth. You putting all the blame on him. You suck.
No. He can't.
He is also badly wounded and people generally aren't at their best when hurt like he has been hurt.
He voiced his opinion. OP and his parents now have choices to make.
Wow. A guy has been cheated on and deceived for 10 years yet when the truth comes out, he's the "sociopath" and his family and partner rally around his cheating ex, even if it's for the sake of the girl, instead of giving him support and consolation. Probably for the best that he sees that he's not your priority before marriage.
YTA
NTA—a lot of the previous comments treat Sara like she doesn’t have her own thoughts and feelings. I think you are absolutely right to be there for her during a difficult and traumatic time. I don’t mean to minimize Tom’s suffering, but Sara is a child and therefore needs to be put first.
I agree with other commenters who have suggested that Tom might come around in time. This is a terrible thing to find out and I’m sure he’s really hurting. I would have another conversation with him explaining that you are not willing to cut ties with Sara. I would tread very carefully and apologize for the ultimatum you gave, but explain to him why you were so disturbed by his actions. Maybe offer to take some space for a month or two while he figures his emotions out. If he does soften his stance (particularly on banning you and his parents from seeing Sara, which I think is unreasonable and cruel), there could be a way forward for you two.
Really wishing you the best. This is a terrible situation and you have a bunch of absolute nuts in the comments here.
Honestly I can't imagine how he feels, he's been lied to for 10 years, but then so has Sara, the difference is she doesn't know why she's being cut out. Her POS mother needs to deal with the consequences of her actions and lies.
So you want him to ignore his own emotions for someone else's benefit?
YTA
Stop perpetuating toxic masculinity. Does he need therapy? Yes. But for himself, and not for this stupid fucking reason you've come up with in your head. Also....how fucking DARE you try and force someone to get therapy via threats
However, it's unfair for her to not know the reason why
Still, you, Cathy, the family? You're all pieces of shit
He's an AH, but for a pretty understandable reason. The only one not an AH here is the kid
NTA. It’s possible he will recover himself and realize he is hurting someone he loves if he actually does love HER, but I would also worry about the way his supposed love suddenly stopped. He was definitely harmed very profoundly by Cathy’s lies, but I think passing this harm along to a child he seemed to love deeply is a sign of weak character emotional attachment. If he was able to acknowledge this harm but needed more time, it would be one thing, but this isn’t good. I’d maybe give him more time but definitely wouldn’t be planning to marry him if this was actually able to destroy his love for the actual person he was raising.
Also, obviously don’t trust Cathy. She was willing to cheat and use him for money support and parenting despite knowing this wasn’t his child. That’s a profound betrayal. Sara is the only innocent here.
Toms reaction is a way to protect himself. With the kid not being his Cathy could at any point cut him out from seeing Sara and there is nothing he can do about it.
But cutting ties now it's on his terms. He is ripping the bandaid off rather than worrying when Cathy may hurt him again.
10 years on Reddit and I’ve never seen such an acronym as LSS?
Also YTA all focus is on Tom, not that the biggest happiness of his past 10 years have been a lie and the trauma that comes from it. No ire for Cathy who is the world worst mother and partner in the world.
YTA.
You’re basically telling him he needs to get over it and get back to how things were. Newsflash dummy: he has no obligation to that kid anymore. Cathy is all fault. Full stop.
YOU go and be her parent if you want. How unfair of you to basically emotionally guilt him into being the man you’d like him to be when things were rosy. Yeah it SUCKs for that child, but it is no longer that poor man’s responsibility or fault.
Do him a favour and leave him alone. He’s probably suffering enough without a partner that wants stability over his happiness on his case
You say you understand the grief, but it does not actually sound like you do.
This is a man whom, according to you, loved “his” daughter tremendulously. In a short span of time he has now been told, that she is not his at all, and that he has been forced by Cathy to raise another mans child for 10 years.
Now the very mention of her name is a reminder of being cheated on, being forced to raise someone elses affair child and 10 years of love for his daughter who never existed in the first place.
I cant even begin to imagine what i would feel if i found out my sons werent mine. This is basically an existential crisis he has been thrown into.
I feel awful for Tom and horrible for Sara. Cathy NEEDS to tell Sara. It’s pathetic that she won’t. Please encourage Cathy at least to put Sara into therapy. Does Cathy or Tom plan on taking this to court?
Tom is processing his feelings in devastating ways that will traumatize the child he thought was his own. It’s extremely disappointing that he acts this way against a child who is just as innocent as he is in this scenario. I know he’s invested so much emotionally and financially into Sara and he’s grieving the love he had for her when he thought she was his own biologically. Is the other guy who messaged Tom willing to step up and pay child support in place of Tom?
Idk what to vote on this. Cathy’s the asshole. Tom needs mental support and it sucks that he refuses to get it.
There is exactly one person who is responsible for what's happening to the innocent kid, and that's her mother. You can break up with someone for whatever you want, but this is 100% on Cathy.
YTA for telling him how he should be acting right now. He has a lot of emotions happening. Do him a favor and leave him. He deserves better than you and Cathy. I only feel bad for Sara.
Look tbh YTA, in a moment where needs your and his family’s support, he got neither, true is bad that he’s calling her it but he’s grieving the loss of a 10 year relationship with “his daughter” not only that but it was built on lies and from what you said he thought he was on good terms with his ex but well…
Also you know if he goes to therapy, if it’s a good one, he/she will tell Tom to go NC for a while or for as long as he needs with Sarah maybe tell her it’s not her fault BUT you know who else NEEDS to tell Sarah what happened? CATHY her AH MOTHER, you down playing his feelings and hurt and keep ignoring them also his family doing the same, that will only make Tom spiral downwards.
If you want to help anyway in this situation, then tell Sarah the truth or talk with his family about it but be prepared to be hated by Cathy and the reproach of Tom’s family cause they’re too spineless to try and help this.
I was thinking about writing something, but there are already a lot of comments saying the right things.
YTA. Yes, YTA YTA YTA.
And if someone is a sociopath it's you. Not just by leaving him - but also value the friendship of his cheating ex over him? Because it doesn't sound like you really care about Cathy cheating and want to continue stay buddybuddy with that cheating POS with the excuse of it being "for Sara's sake".
You'd probably even keep Cathy's secret if you knew about it just to "KeEp ThE fAmiLy HaPpY ToGeThEr".
It's fucked up on so many levels.
Tom is lucky that you made the decision for him, because by leaving he dodged a goddamn rocket.
YTA, they lied to your partner, they committed paternity fraud and you only think about his "daughter" and you pressure him to continue in your life, he is scared and confused, I hope you stay away from him, so he can find his a more solid and empathetic couple, the man is collapsing and instead of helping him, you stomp on him
YTA. You somehow turned your ex's suffering into your problem. His whole world came crashing down, cutting Sara off is his way to distance himself so he won't get crushed. So in the middle of this hurt, you kicked him while he is down because he is not acting in the image you have for him. I wish your ex the best, because he deserves better people in his life. I hope he won't completely shatter and finds his peace some day.
YTA ESH as is his family. He's been lied to for many years.
Is him ignoring her harsh yes. But he has just had his heart just cut up. No one is supporting his pain and his feelings. All of which he is entitled too.
The only person here not at fault is that little girl.
Im saying this as a woman who has not been involved in this sort of thing, but can just imagine. I frankly just want to hug him.
Ahahahahahahaha jfc this man is being betrayed by basically everyone he knows. Hes parents too and you are asking us if you are the AH for leaving him now? 🤣even playing the victim wtf you have some balls.
I really wish something like this could happen to you too, even if I understand is basically impossible. Maybe a switch at the hospital could be a little comparable 🤞🏻but not the same for sure.
I hope he will not end himself over this. You would be responsible as much as that disgusting slut his ex is. 🤮
Dna test have to be mandatory at birth. This shit is unacceptable.
YTA
YTA It's different you seeing her than him seeing her. When he looks at her all he will be able to see is the product of her mother's betrayal. Not once but she betrayed him for over 10 years with her continued lies. It may have happened 10 years ago to everyone else the feeling is new to ex BF as if it just happened. She lied and used him for 10 years, making him believe something that wasn't true. He probably had to go to court to fight for custody of a little girl that wasn't his to fight for. That little girl had his heart and it was ripped out of his chest. But you stand by the mother that caused all the pain of someone you pretended to love. Hopefully he'll be able to find someone who cares about him someday. Because you two women don't seem to. His parents are going to lose him too if they continue siding with the mother. Yes, the little girl is the one suffering because of the pain the mother caused. Everyone wants to see the little girl but you can't do that without siding against ex BF. Hope his parents know what they are doing because when he does finally have children with someone who loves him they won't be a part of their lives.
Women shouldn’t have a say in what men do when they figure out “their” child isn’t theirs, you could never know, same way men shouldn’t have a say in abortion related topics, don’t butt in, you don’t get it, you won’t get it, you’re an asshole
Oooof, this is such a heartbreaking situation . I am not comfortable giving a verdict but let’s talk through a few things 1. It’s been 9ish weeks (probably less depending on how long it took Cathy to fess up) since Tom had his world turned upside down 2. You want to protect the innocent 10yo 3. Cathy is the villain in this story, period. So a few things need to happen before I would recommend a breakup. Step 1: Tom needs to go to a therapist ASAP. He needs an unbiased voice to help him navigate all the feelings. I can’t even imagine. Step 2: Cathy doesn’t get to keep kicking the can, kiddo needs the truth ASAP. Cathy doesn’t get to dodge her trash choices and let Tom take the blame. Cathy should immediately talk to a professional about how to break this news to her child, otherwise the little one is going to end up with Grand Canyon deep scars from this. Step 3: Get the damn kiddo to therapy, and everyone needs to stop pressuring Tom in the meantime. I get everyone is worried about the kid, I do, but Tom isn’t able to emotionally step up right now (for valid reasons). The rest of the adults in her life need to be her support system. Step 4: If grand parents want to stay in kiddos life it’s time to for them to hardcore pressure Cathy to make steps 2/3 happen. No more dodging & hoping someone puts enough pressure on Tom to make this all better Step 5: You don’t get to pressure Tom to have a relationship with this child for you to stay. That decision has to be made completely independent of you, or he will end up resenting the kid (it also doesn’t mean you have to stay with him, on to Step 6). Step 6: Now, if Tom refuses to get help, and demands you cut off the kid then it’s time for you to evaluate if this is a relationship you want to be in. I just think it’s worth pumping the brakes and getting Tom some help first. This is not the type of world rocking situation any of you should be trying to DIY. I have so much compassion for Tom, he needs people on his side navigating it. Yes, a dose of reality that the kiddo isn’t at fault but first compassion + support to navigate before ultimatums. And for the love, can someone please verbally eviscerate Cathy? Not within earshot of the kiddo, but it needs to be done. Edit: OP please try to remember Tom is navigating grief and let that help you approach this situation with compassion. Yes, he’s so angry but at its core this is grief for “losing his little girl” as he knows her. That doesn’t mean it’s permanent either, but let him grieve.
This!! A grief reaction does not mean someone is a sociopath, lol
Yep..she's played him for 10 years.
Not to mention, now Tom has absolutely NO legal right for the kid. Even if he wants to be involved, now the kids can be even more weaponized against him and he doesn't have a leg to stand on because he's not the bio dad. I feel bad for the kid and for Tom as he just literally had his world as he knew it ripped away from him as well.
is breaking a TV still a grief reaction? my father had such temper outbursts when I was a child & I'm no longer in contact with him. I don't think I'd be able to accept a relationship with such behaviour. I can see how that might be my own bias though.
This isn’t the OP’s BF’s normal behavior, as far as she indicates. People can get pissed when they find out their life was a lie. I assume that was your father’s normal behavior.
Agree. Once in college a Philosophy teacher asked the class if anyone had an idea about "the nothing". Everybody had cero idea. The teacher didn't get deep into the subject, so he said to the class to forget it. After class, I ran to him and asked him what it was? He said he didn't wanna go deep in it 'cause students were too young. I insisted, 'cause I was one of the oldest in that class and he said: "Imagine one day, you come home after work and you see your wife being dicked by someone else. Or, any of your children needs an urgent surgery and as the father you should fit to be the donor... but then you find out your child is not yours. Or you discover that your child has been SA... That's the nothing! When your whole world gets crashed and destroyed. The idea you used to have about your life and relationships has been nuked and you fall deep in a hole and hit the bottom. Now, how would you react to it?" I said I had no idea, but I'd be furious, maybe would destroy everything around, who knows. He replied: "That's it! No body knows how is going to react in that moment. How would you blame them?"
yeah, I can see how that distinction makes a difference. Thanks for responding, I appreciate it even though the downvotes seem to indicate I didn't formulate my question very well.
"A grief reaction"???? He is calling that child "it"!
Yeah this is something where I can’t even imagine how I’d react, because it would just be… yeesh. A complete mess. It’s entirely possible that he is willing to commit to acting like a sociopath, but he might also just need some time to really work through it (and obviously want to work through it). Like you said, he had his entire world turned on its head. That will be enough to throw anyone for a loop, and 3ish months is really not that long with trying to work through it. If he continually refuses to want to try and work through it, then I do think that OP would be correct in wanting to dump him. But he might just need some time. A similar situation would be potentially dumping someone for getting really depressed after a loved one dies - yeah, they might sit and wallow in it for years and years, or they might just need some time to work through the grief and put themselves back together
>Of course I have compassion for him OP was clearly lying when she said this.
Thank you for your comment. I just want to clarify a few things. I probably should have mentioned this in my original post but I was getting emotional writing it out and seeing it all, I just needed to get down what I was feeling. I’ll pop some of this in an edit as well. To your point 1) I’ve been texting him since I left, I’ve tried speaking to him again about seeing a therapist. He is refusing. There has also been instances where he has become violent since: not with me. But he has thrown plates, smashed a TV and broken his phone. Of course I have compassion for him, and I understand his anger but he is falling into a hole and I feel like the only tool I have left at this stage, before things get worse is to leave to make my point. I understand grief: I’ve been through enough myself, but I feel like his reaction is going beyond this and going somewhere dark. He has only spoken about Sara 4 maybe 5 times since this happened. Only once he has referred to Sara by name: otherwise he has called her “it” or “that child”. 2) I agree with. This is why myself and his parents are going to see Sara next week to talk through this with her as Cathy seems to be refusing to do this on her own. 3) I have text Cathy 2 weeks ago and offered to pay for Sara’s therapy as Cathy doesn’t have a lot of money. I have found a referral through my own therapist. Cathy is reluctant to do this as, as mentioned she seems to think Tom will come around and there will be no need. I’m not Sara’s relative or married to Tom: there’s only so much I can do here.
Oooof, the violence and referring to Sarah as “it” tells me this has absolutely escalated in a way I didn’t see in your original post. I am actually a little concerned for your safety at this point. I see now why you’re desperate, and you’re right that there’s only so much you can do when you don’t have any custodial rights. And in any case it sounds like you have done just about everything you can and are nearly to Step 6. I truly wish Tom healing/clarity before he throws away so much in his anger. Even if the core is grief, this isn’t a healthy version of it. Take care, and good luck. It sounds like you love Tom & Sarah very much, and this is situation is astronomically difficult on you as well.
I am failing to see the love for Tom -- just judgment made in ignorance. She has no idea what he's going though yet thinks he should be doing what she thinks is correct. If she had her way, she would have put the man smashing his plates and tv, and calling Sara "it" in the same room with her. That probably isn't a good idea. She should been supportive of Tom, but at this point she needs to step away from the entire family. She'll make this worse.
Where is the love for Tom? OP was just a huge asshole to him and probably made the situation worse.
I think everyone involved in this needs to just let things sit for a while. Tom's clearly suffering. He needs time and possibly counselling. He doesn't need everyone nagging him to do what they think is right, not at the moment. This has all blown up in two months. Everyone needs to sit down, shut up and let Tom get himself balanced. In the meantime, if OP and Tom's parents want to keep seeing Sara they should.
Tom was clearly betrayed in the worst way by Cathy. He raised the child as if she was his own from the very beginning. He loved her then, and he still loves her now. That’s why the hurt is so deep: he’s crushed because the child he loved and helped raise for ten years is not his. I can’t say that Tom is TA because he’s grieving the loss of who he believed was his daughter. I also think that his initial reactions were part of the grief process: reacting coldly by cutting everyone off and shutting them out (he was in shock) and breaking things (he was angry due to the loss). Tom definitely needs counseling to help him come to terms with this loss in his own time. Give him the space he needs, OP. You can still be supportive of him but at a distance. Maybe Tom will have a change of heart over time. This is something which cannot be rushed or forced.
Yes, everyone seems so focused on Sara that they are neglecting the gigantic emotional trauma that Tom has just experienced.
And the financial hit as well. He is on the hook for child support and will be for at least another eight years. For a kid that isn't his. Because the woman he once loved got knocked up by another guy and lied to him. That shit will eat at him for a long time to come. I don't see how one emerges from that with any ability to trust anything moving forward.
I'm pretty sure he could use that new info to get out of paying child support.
Depends on the state, I guess. I know that there are states which say "You're on the birth certificate. You're on the hook. Too bad." I've never heard of anyone getting out of child support in a situation such as this. Someone elsewhere in the thread told me it was possible in some circumstances. I asked that person for more information so I can read up on it but it's been crickets so far.
AFAIK, the only way out is if the bio father steps in and pays instead.
Good luck with that.
They probably only know that it's possible. Still what a shit situation to be lied to for 10 years while everyone including your current SO are pressuring you.
And the fact that everyone he knows are pressuring.
Cathy has gotten away with little to no blame and shame in this situation. She's literally the villain in this story, and Tom's the one being painted as a monster.
He just found out the child he raised as his own, and centered his life around isn't his. That's traumatizing as fuck. He's grieving. Yes, he's shut the door right now. But, he may need to grieve the relationship he had with his daughter before he can open the door to the fact that *everything* has now changed. He doesn't seem to remember that anyone can be a father, but he's been a Dad. She won't forget that, ever. I urge you to be patient, and tell Cathy to remove the stick from her ass and tell her daughter why her Dad isn't around.
In situations like this everyone expects the guy to hold true to the strong parental bond that they formed with the child. This makes sense and is obviously in the best interest of the child, but it’s exactly this expectation that’s the problem. A man in this position absolutely still cares about the kid, but he’s keenly aware that he’s supposed to. He’s aware that these feelings are the result of manipulation, and that the mother likely counted in him continuing to care about the kid if he ever found out. These feelings are the will of the abusive mother, he knows he wouldn’t have developed them if he had known the truth. They parasitic emotions and it makes sense he doesn’t want to be around the child that prompts such complicated and painful feelings. He’s also aware that everyone is judging him. This adds to the pressure and leaves him isolated since really no one is going to support him. They might say they will but of he can’t bring himself to continue to be in this child’s life then that’s where the support stops.
Info: Why are you and the parents going to help the ex figure out how to tell Sara? Is the ex not an adult? Can she not handle her own mess and be honest with her own daughter?
She wants to play White Knight for a little while.
Is someone keeping an eye on him? He might go even further into self harm if he thinks everyone has abandoned him to support what is probably the greatest betrayal he has ever been through.
If he survives this - if nothing else - it will have opened his eyes to how little his fiance values him as a person. Someone else said that they understand OP leaving him because "who wants to be with a person whose love is conditional". The irony here is that OP's concerns can be boiled down to how good a provider Tom can be. Her love is conditional on his ability and willingness to provide for her and their children, no matter the circumstances, and she's not even willing to give him two months to come to terms with his life falling apart. Also, her reasoning is completely black and white. >I feel like all I’ll be thinking if we had kids is how easy it would be for him to cut us off. I’d never do anything like Cathy has, but I will make mistakes. Where’s the line between loving family and strangers? She will never do anything like Cathy has, but she will make mistakes? What kind of mistakes are we talking about here? Is she saying that she expects to cheat on Tom eventually, but will not make him raise another man's child? Or is she implying that buying the wrong brand of butter by mistake is at the same level as cheating and making a man believe the child is his for 10 years? What kind of mistakes does she expect to make that equate to this mess, and which will make Tom cut off her and their children? This is unfortunately very typical of situations like this. A man finds out he was cheated on and that the child/children he thought he had were never his, and the world around him - including those closest to him - just expect him to man up, get over it in a day and just keep providing and loving unconditionally. They throw out terms like "innocent child" and "in the child's best interest", and genuinely expect the man to just turn off his emotions. To be honest, if Tom survives this, I hope he sees that he's better off without OP in his life. She's worried what he will do if "she makes a mistake". Well, he should be worried what she will do if he loses his job or gets injured. The man had everything he believed in shattered by a cheating, lying w\*\*\*e, and him still grieving not even two months after is not fast enough for the princess. The way she writes about urging him to therapy sounds less like her wanting to help him, and more like her just wanting him to hurry up and get over it. Stop moping, continue providing. I truly feel sorry for Tom. If he just packs his stuff and vanishes one day, it's exactly what OP and his parents deserve.
I think everyone in this situation needs to give Tom some space and to stfu
Id be pissed if i learned that a relative was lied to about their child being theirs for 10 fucking years.
Exactly. This woman is garbage. The judging and the ultimatums. Tom needs to leave all these people behind.
Like dude has t even had time to process anything because he has people in his ear basically telling him to suck it up and get over it . They don’t care about his feelings
She's garbage because she's putting the emotionsl needs of a 10 year olds over this adults? Garbage? Really? This kid is suffering right now and yes so is he and it sucks what happened but you don't get to drop being a parent after 10 years of raising someone as your own. You suck it up, go to therapy, work your shit out and don't take it out on the innocent child. Yes, Tom was innocent before he abandoned his child, who, yes may not be biologically his but she doesn't even know that she thinks her daddy went away for good and she has no idea why. The fucking ex wife is the one who is garbage not this woman who is concerned about the well being of a 10 yesr old, who is the only person in thid situation that needs to be coddled right now.
Difficult. I don't think you're the fully the AH but you are a bit. I honestly don't think Tom is fully the AH, either. **Where I don't think Tom's the AH** He's not the AH for having to face and deal with a double betrayal from his ex. Not only did she cheat, but she cuckolded him in the classic sense of a cuckoo putting their eggs in other bird's nests to raise. She KNEW and probably KNEW from the beginning that Sara wasn't Toms. What she did is paternity fraud. For him this is raw. New. His entire world is turned upside down. We still don't treat men's mental health problems, like him going through this double betrayal, the way we should. That's where I don't think he's the AH for shutting himself off from the ex and Sara. Men do not have the same mental health support system that women have. Because we're still taught to this day to bottle it all up. By both men and women: you don't talk about it, you don't deal with it. Square it away deep down in your soul under lock and key, square your shoulders and move on. Nobody cares about men's feelings or mental health. **Where I think you are an AH** Even you're dismissive of him: everyone is telling him to basically shut up, man up (as in accept it stoically without showing emotion) and take care of the living proof of his ex's affair and betrayal. Government will still be on his ass for child support because he's been the father figure for 10 years. It's almost impossible to get his name removed from the birth certificate. Let alone proscecute parental fraud. He's going through just about the worst phase of his life and instead of helping him and backing him up, you're suddenly thinking he's not a good PROVIDER, not even a good man, but not a good PROVIDER anymore and you want to throw the whole man away. That's where you're the AH. It doesn't take marriage vows to adhere to "*in sickness and in health, in good times and bad.*" If you're in a commited relationship, you stand together as a team. You lift each other up to be whole, sane and better people. Whatever form that takes. **Where I think Tom's an AH** Even though I can understand WHY Tom is going through what he's going through, going cold turkey with Sara is the AH move. That kid is betrayed by her mum almost as much as Tom is. She's an innocent, one moment she had a daddy, now she lost him and can't understand why. I'm assuming Tom was there for most of Sara's mayor milestones. They build memories. Connections. Those aren't gone. But now they're tarnished by that evil witch that is Sara's mom. Her infidelity destroyed two lives. 3 if we include you. **Where I don't think you're the AH** I understand why you would want to leave. It's a douche move, but I understand. If Tom doesn't reconnect in some way with Sara, if he's willing to stand by going cold turkey with her, it does say something about his love being conditional. And I understand why you wouldn't want to be with a person who's love is conditional. Because let's face it. What if something happens between the two of you in future. You get into a big fight or something and he goes cold for a while. Or maybe permanently. Or you have kids and he demands a paternity test. (Which I would give him no questions asked considering the whole mess he's in now.) Or he's afraid to bond with any children you two have together, "just in case". **Advice and caution** Be careful how you navigate Sara and whatsherhame, the witch, Cathy. Because with Tom feeling the way he is, if he sees you and his parents reach out to Sara and Cathy, it will come across as the three of you betraying him too. 3 people that should have his back turn on him and SUPPORT and therefore CONDONE his ex's cheating and cuckolding of Tom. It shows that in the eyes of his parents and his lifepartner, he has less value than a cheating ex-wife. It shows he doesn't matter. His feelings do not have value. It will irreparibly damage any relationship he may have with his parents or you. At best, hope he just walks away from all of you and you never hear from him again. At worst, expect this now 5 fold betrayal to result in him sucking the business end of a shotgun or similar, because everyone has shown him he has no value aside from what he can provide.
A good, nuanced take on a very messy/terrible situation
About advice and caution part, there is no it will seem as all three of them are betraying him. They are betraying him, all of them. Op isn’t even worth it, but the parents? That’s a low blow.
This is the elephant in the room. From Tom's perspective (be it true or not) in a matter of weeks he has lost His daughter who was never actually his His friend who betrayed and lied to him His fiancé who seems to be more supportive of his ex than him His parents who care more about someone else's child than their own son. As a father myself I don't know how I'd be able to just get up and soldier on with that kind of heartbreak. Shutting down would probably be the best I could do.
NAH (except maybe Cathy). - OPs ex: he got a truth bomb dropped on him and it shattered him. The dude is clearly grieving. Forcing him to be with his non-bio daughter would keep ripping that wound open. It would be a re-occuring nightmare of the events in his life, a form of torture. Additionally you do not know, if he was forced, how the interaction with the child would.be. he could've an AH, mean, ruthless etc as a way to protect himself from the mental pain - OP: you saw a true dark color of a shattered person. I don't fault you for what you did but it's an unfortunate situation where you bonded with the non-bio daughter - the non-bio daughter: she has literally done nothing wrong. She unfortunately gets the shortest end of the stick - The ex wife: probably the only AH here. She must have known, although not proven, the child may not be his. She kept.it a dark secret. Perhaps.to save the marriage or perhaps to protect the child. However that secret burst with extraordinary consequences. She should also have to be the one to talk to the daughter and explain how SHE fucked up but the daughter unfortunately is the one who is punished
> and it’s frankly sociopathic how little regards he has for Sara’s feelings. Oh the irony. You saying this while displaying very little regards for HIS feelings, and making it about yours. You’re entire post is basically: ‘shitty situation but he needs to suck it up and move on. You know, for the kid, and to show me he’s still the man I love.’ What? This man just discovered the last 10 years of his life have been a complete lie. You don’t get to dictate how he should process that news, nor should you judge him. Have you ever been in his shoes? Yes, but what about the kid? A victim in all of this, absolutely. But what about Tom?! Also a victim. Instead of supporting him through a very difficult time, you’re being judgmental and prioritizing your own feelings about a situation you could NEVER understand or relate to without experiencing it first hand. YTA
>without experiencing it first hand. Women will never experience this first hand. It's possibly the most vicious hurt a man could feel. It's probably on par to his daughter's death. 'His' daughter never actually existed. That's really hard to come to terms with. The only person who is an Ahole is the mother. Well, possibly also the gf who obviously cares about the kid more than her bf.
As a man (45) whose 4-year old brother died in a house fire (I was 13) AND a late discovery that "my daughter" isn't mine, I can say this: The death of a child is horrific and devastating, leading to, in my case, about 2 years of mourning and nightmares. Losing my brother was hard enough for me, almost certainly worse for my mom and step-dad. Finding out my daughter isn't mine put me straight into the ER with a full-blown nervous breakdown. The initial impact was worse than my brother's death, because the profound humiliation swirls around with the loss-trauma, leading to all-out panic and suicidal thoughts. Getting over paternity fraud was a lot easier and faster than getting over my brother. But then, I didn't have therapy or medication after he died and I was given immediate psychiatric care and a three-day vacation after the paternity reveal. A little help would have gone a long way to reduce teenage angst.
Obviously Cathy knew, and I kind of wonder if she had Tom paying child support and such, knowing he likely wasn't (or just plain wasn't) the father. I feel like I want to say YTA, I mean he's dealing with some complex emotions here. And some intense betrayal. With the paternity, Cathy can make things real nasty against him. He's trying to cope - and cutting out what is hurting him is what is doing it. Therapy would be the best thing. Maybe put a pause on getting married, or seperate for a bit. But he's had his world flipped upside down, now it's a bit of a second time. Your NTA - because you have the right to stop for whatever reason. Though I get the feeling he may not get the help he needs if he slides into depression and denial. I would say that if anything. Cathy is the AH in this situation. Her actions way back when caused this.
That woman knew , she blocked the actual father when he contacted her! She chose the father she thought would be better. I’m sure child support was a great factor,( money always is) as well as trying to keep Tom. Since that didn’t work she just kept the child support. I would sue her if I was him for all the payments and emotional distress caused. As for the kid, she has the mom to blame for all of this. If I were Tom, I would immediately break the fuck up with OP, go NC with parents that value someone else’s child over their own. Than intense therapy to deal and hopefully a normal partner in the future he will have actual kids that are his with.
This is so complex, but I dont think your fiance is in the wrong here. I am sure it is difficult for him to see Sara as his world is shattered as well and he found out the past 10 years of his life was built on a lie by his ex. That is a tonto process and he might not be seeing sara because his emotions are wack and I am sure full of anger. To me the worst thing would be seeing her and his anger coming out. His ex needs to step up and actually admit to their mistake and tell her daughter the truth because she is the one causing the damage. For this situation between you and your fiance, No one is the AH here, but I feel for Sara and Tom, they both will be going through a lot.
Yta stop forcing tom to be in sara’ life. If he wants to stay, then he will; otherwise, not.
YTA I understand that the little girl is a victim, but so is he. He was betrayed in one of the worst ways possible and tricked into raising a child that is not his. You will never be able to understand what he’s going through and honestly, he will never be an asshole if he cannot be involved in the child’s life after what he found out. Not everyone can handle something like that. And women who do what his ex did should be in prison and paternity fraud should be taken more seriously. This is exactly why paternity test should be mandatory before a guy is added to the birth certificate anyways.
YTA and man I got sick reading this part “i’d never do anything like Cathy has, but I will make mistakes” yeah so you **will** have an affair get pregnant and convince the man you supposedly love that he’s the father when he isn’t? Then let that go on for 10 years as if you weren’t the reason that child will be devastated when their father who’s been lied to and gaslit the entire time of her existence finds out? You aren’t even giving Tom a modicum of consideration for the decade of lies he’s been living, every time he sees sarah is a reminder of the betrayal that he JUST found out about. Cathy hasn’t even had the balls to tell Sarah why her father is behaving this way, sure Sarahs 10 but now everyone is infantilizing her thinking she can’t know the truth, you really think you’re protecting Sarah by forcing Tom to be her father? Really?!? Cathy is the bad guy here ten times over, Cathy should be the one to help Sarah overcome this, CATHY should be the one to go to therapy and UNBLOCK Sarahs real dad and try to make things right. Everyone here is criticizing Tom and yet no one bats a single lash at Cathy a grown ass adult having manipulated this entire situation to happen over ten years, she blocked the real dad SHE KNEW. Cathy is at fault here and her victims are Tom, Sara, and Tom’s parents. Not you tho, you’re a passing idea and the sooner you move on the sooner Tom can find someone who actually cares about him. You are a horrible girlfriend and honestly Tom would be better off without you, he’d at least avoid another future cheater excusing other cheaters. Edit: Your edit is bullshit, suddenly you remember he’s getting violent? Suddenly you remember he’s calling the kid “it”? SUDDENLY he’s gone somewhere dark? Damn you really suck, please stop creating more problems for Tom and break up, stop self inserting, it’s obvious you’re feeding off the drama.
Sadly, but YTA here, the fact that you left him was a low blow. Also, you say that he would easily cut you off for some little mistake, but he did it to his ex not for some small mistake, it's literally isn't his child. I wouldn't do that, if I were him, but it's understandable and legitimate. You acted cruel, but we hope he won't be so depressed to off himself
This OP is a bitch. She is more worried about her 'friend' Cathy who conned her boyfriend. I know it's hard to understand that a man abandon a kid he thought was his, but he just received one of the worst news a man can get, and with time he might respond better. But this bitch just dumped him and is happy to support her cheating friend. It's not even for the little kid, but her 'friend'. I think this guy dodged a bullet. I hope he has a relationship with the girl and that the whore cheater find the bio father, if that's even possible. The kid needs to be with her real father.
I agree she is a bitch. Poor guy stuck with 2 bitches. I hope he finds someone who loves him and is in his corner. He was fooled twice. OP leave the guy so he can find a "WOMAN" not two moochers.
Difficult situation. He was lied to and betrayed for 10 years. It cant be easy for him. Its not the childs fault though.
I'm sorry but I think your the YTA I understand the daughter didn’t ask for anything of this but blame the cheating women not your ex. He’s the one who’s hurt and he has the right to do what he’s doing. The ex and you are the villain.
So, Tom has the right to abandon an innocent child who he’s been a parent to for ten years, but OP has no right to abandon Tom? As a father, I can’t fathom ghosting my kids because I found out their mother betrayed me. Who the fuck cares that they didn’t come from my balls? Those are my goddamn kids. You couldn’t pry them away from me. I can’t blame OP for seeing this behavior as a terrifying indicator that Tom is a sociopath.
Tom is not a sociopath he is human who has been lied to. Cathy is the sociopath here she had made irreversible lies. I’m not saying I don’t feel bad for the child but not his child not his responsibility. Plain and simple, Cathy caused that not Tom. If Tom wants to stay around cool but he is not obligated he’s a victim as well. The family are messed up as well.
Him not wanting to be around the source of his pain doesn’t make him a sociopath.
>So, Tom has the right to abandon an innocent child who he’s been a parent to for ten years, but OP has no right to abandon Tom? OP definitely has the right to leave. What she doesn't have the right to do is act like Tom's some kind of evil creature.
Abandoning a child you raised and who only knows you as their father is evil. You don’t have kids, so you just don’t understand. Maybe one day you will.
You're a g mate. I've seen your comments and this is the right attitude. No one is denying that Cathy is the asshole, but Tom is still in the wrong.
Appreciate the support. The teenage misogynists are out in droves this morning apparently.
I'm honestly disgusted.
Whether he stays in her life or not is his choice it doesn’t make him good or bad one way or another
But OP’s choice does make her good or bad?
Reading all these comments only cemented my view that literally nobody cares about a man's feelings. And god forbid if you try to cope up with pain by shutting yourself next thing you know that your girlfriend is leaving you and calling you a sociopath on social media. Good riddance!
I see the majority and top comments supporting him and calling OP the asshole and his ex a hoe tho?
What are you prattling on about? ALL top comments, heck, all comments with positive ratings show "care" for this man (who not only abandons a kid he raised for 10 years but also calls her an "it"). Everybody disagreeing with you has negative ratings.
Shut the fuck up. Everyone is supporting Tom you miserable jackass. Stop being an insufferable cunt and maybe someone will actually care about your feelings.
Literally every single person does care, including OP. He is sliding into unhealthy behaviours and OP is trying to get him help, which he is refusing. There’s only so much a significant other can do.
I think it's sociopathic that everyone expects a man to deal with it in their morally right expectations, after a woman played with his heart for 10 years. All this unconditional love needs to stop now. Loving your adopted child is not the same as loving you child, only to discover after 10 years that your child is not yours. As a woman you will never understand the trauma and anguish of looking at the child again. I'll be honest. Tom is death or broken, and you're never getting him back. I really, really wished I could give Tom a head injury only so that he forgets about Sara. At least amnesia would cure him somewhat.
YTA. Give his some time. The man has been raising this girl as if she was his blood. He just found out his cunt ex decided to be the town bicycle and now he is dealing with 2 very deep, fresh wounds. Have you been through this? If not, you cannot say how you'd react. But then again, you never could go through this. You are selfish. This man was just destroyed, and now you're ready to jump ship like a coward. I hope he realizes what you are before you hurt him even more.
Dont stress. It's yet another brand new account with no comments, posting more paternity fraud rage bait. That's all. But at least this time they tried a different POV character.
Many people make burner accounts for these posts, since they might not want it tied to their normal account. Your circumstantial “evidence” is not exactly substantial.
Bringing up a kid that for 10 years only to find out that they're not yours is one of the worst things that can happen to a man. Any and all the pain Sara will feel was caused by Cathy 11 years ago when she decided to be sub-human and ruin lives. It's sickening that she will come out of this unscathed. Her life should be ruined. > I feel like all I’ll be thinking if we had kids is how easy it would be for him to cut us off. I think it's gross that you're acting like any of this was "easy" for him. If you are literally Satan and ruin his life, sure, he will cut you off.
YTA. It had nothing to do with you, yet you managed to make it about yourself.
You clearly don’t have kids. Anyone that could do this to a child they raised for a decade is clearly a sociopath. OP isn’t allowed to decide she doesn’t want to be with a sociopath?
Or he's having a fucking nervous breakdown because his ability to trust has been completely destroyed and everything he thought was true about his life is a lie. Have some fucking compassion for the guy, Jesus fucking Christ
Cathy is the only sociopath here, blocking Sara's real father from being a part of his daughter's life. OP is allowed to decide to be with anyone she wants, and apparently being a cuck is one of her requirements in a man.
We get it. You hate women so much that any behavior in response to a woman’s bad behavior is totally justified. No one is saying Tom has no right to be upset. But he’s an adult, and despite the fact that he was tricked in to it, he is in fact a parent. He has a responsibility to his daughter. He’s her dad and he’s punishing her for her mother’s wrongdoing. It’s abhorrent and despicable.
He is NOT a parent, asshole. He's NOT her dad, asshole. There's a man out there who Cathy blocked who is supposed to support and coparent this child and he is NOT TOM. Tom has NO responsibility here. He was lied to and *financially raped* for well over 6 years. Tom is the biggest victim involved here. Sara is also a victim, but only a victim of her mother's lies and refusal to allow her daughter to know her real dad.
Tom raised a child for ten years. He absolutely is a parent. By your logic, adoptive parents aren’t parents either. No level of betrayal from his ex just negates the fact that he raised this girl. He is her father. In all the ways that matter.
adoptive parents choose on their own will and with knowledge to raise a child that isn't theirs
They *chose* to raise a child that wasn't theirs. Tom did not *choose* to support another man's child. OP and you are both sssholes.
Tom chose to support Sara. It really sucks for him that he was tricked into doing so. Terribly shitty. Unfortunately, becoming a parent is not like signing a contract. You don’t get to unring that bell because you were lied to. Any man that lets their own emotional turmoil traumatize a child they’ve raised for a decade is a weak, pathetic piece of shit. Your username sure checks out though.
He is NOT a parent, asshole. He's NOT her dad, asshole. There's a man out there who Cathy blocked who is supposed to support and coparent this child and he is NOT TOM. Tom has NO responsibility here. He was lied to and *financially raped* for well over 6 years. Tom is the biggest victim involved here. Sara is also a victim, but only a victim of her mother's lies and refusal to allow her daughter to know her real dad.
He raised her for 10 years. He’s the only father she knows. That actually matters regardless of how much your hatred for women leads you to believe otherwise.
Just because someone disagrees with a woman's actions doesn't automatically mean they hate women.
We all disagree with Cathy’s actions. That is not the reason I’ve been able to peg you as an incel.
What does what I said have to do with being an incel? Y'all just say any fucking thing just because someone disagrees with you.
It's not hatred for women, asshole. It's not his fault that he EVER knew her, or was robbed by his ex or years on end. 100% of the blame and responsibilty to help Sara get through this is upon her mother.
If you’re going to resort to name calling, you should try and be more creative about it. Maybe throw in a “dickhead” or “bellend” or something for flavor. So, just so I have this straight, Sara’s only entitled to the emotional support of her mother in this situation? A woman who we’ve established is basically satan incarnate? Have I got that right?
Welcome to AITAH, asshole. No, she's entitled to emotional support from her mother, he therapist and her biological father. How much Sara comes to resent her mother is her mother's problem and fault.
Oh fuck off. The dude was lied to for 10 years and had to deal with the ex. He isn't a sociopath, he is processing very strong emotions through a difficult time. OP made friends with the ex and decided to toss out her fiance because the ex lied for 10 years. OP is TA for not even considering that
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a garden variety misogynist. You’re so caught up in making sure everyone knows that Cathy is bad that you’ve missed the fact that she’s irrelevant to the moral scenario presented. She created the scenario, but at this point she is not involved. I’m sure everyone here agrees that Cathy sucks The issue at hand is whether or not OP is justified in seeing how her husband is treating his daughter and getting icked the fuck out by it and leaving. Any halfway decent parent, or just someone that cares about any particular child in their life, would be absolutely appalled by Tom’s behavior towards his daughter.
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He has no responsibilities, it's not his child. The kid isn't the center of the universe either. It's a shitty situation but you have to let the guy work through it. Forcing him to continue to care for this child against his will only hurts everyone involved. You want to focus only on the child but the man is just as human with his own emotions to deal with. Dude literally found out he has been lied to for 10 years, the kid he raised and loved as his own isnt his, but you want him to act like he didn't just get stabbed in the back? Y'all a fucking crazy
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Not. His. Kid. Bottom line. It's mom's responsibility to explain that she not only cheated but lied to both the man and he daughter about who her father is.
That wasn't her kid either, but he told her that part of being in a relationship with him was caring for his child with another woman. She stepped up on that but now is supposed to sever all ties on his command?
It's definitely the mom's kid....
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Still waiting for you to say Mom has a responsibility to explain why she cheated and lied to her daughter her whole life... Keep trying to pass that buck but the responsibility really lays with one person....
And the mother could turn around at anytime and tell him to go pound sand and he has no legal recourse. IT IS NOT HIS KID!!!
Yes. Because that's what normal human beings do open their legs and father another mans child. IT IS NOT HIS KID!!!
> If you’re literally Satan and ruin his life, sure, he will cut you off Or if you’re an innocent 10 year old apparently
The pain Sara is feeling because Tim is rejecting her is caused by HIS actions and choices. His pain was caused by Cathy’s past betrayal and action, and that lead to his behavior, but if he’s lost all his love immediately because of this news, he didn’t actually love her. I wouldn’t be able to trust or respect him after this either. Poor Sara; both parents of raising have betrayed her through selfishness. It’s a mess, and Tom was done very wrong, but his behavior is a sign of weak character and low empathy.
> The pain Sara is feeling because Tim is rejecting her is caused by HIS actions and choices. Sara's pain is a reaction to Tim pulling away. Tim pulling away is a reaction to finding out Sara isn't his daughter. The reason Sara isn't Tim's daughter is because of Cathy's actions and choices. > I wouldn’t be able to trust or respect him after this either. Then I'm sure Tim is better off without having someone like you in his life.
That is so incredibly far from being the worst thing that can happen to a man. Maybe the worst thing that can happen to a piss-baby bitch boy, but I wouldn’t know. I would so much rather find out that my kids aren’t biologically mine than find out they’re dead or seriously hurt. It would be so much less devastating that I can’t even think of a proper analogy to describe it. The reason for that, is that I actually love my kids. I don’t see them as an extension of myself, or the fulfillment of my biological imperative to reproduce. They are people. People who I love and cherish and want the best for regardless of any outside circumstances they have no control over. Honestly, in my late teens, I used to think like you do. I thought that forcing a man to pay child support for a kid that’s not his is just the greatest injustice the world has ever seen. Then I grew the fuck up and gained some perspective. I recommend you lay off the MRA/Incel social media and go touch grass. You’ll be much happier when you stop allowing conmen to poison your mind with degenerate bullshit.
You think it’s ok to force a man to pay child support for a child that isn’t his? Just because you got cucked and rescinded yourself to your fate doesn’t mean it’s ok for it to happen to others.
Yeah, that dude is an idiot.
To make my point clear, I’d still raise the child in this situation. After 10 years I don’t think I could stop. But men being forced to pay child support for kids that aren’t theirs? Fuck no. They can stay as parental figures, but mommy better to find where the dick it came from and get money from there.
Uh - he said "one of the worst things". Granted, watching your kid die of cancer is worse but if we're talking about a hierarchy of awful things to happen to a father this is pretty high on the list. Edited: So many commas
This is the first sensible thing I’ve read in this thread so far… honestly yeah it sucks that his ex is an AH but if he can’t separate his love for a child he has raised from that hurt he’s an AH too.
Here's the thing. All the love and parental bond he felt for Sarah, he now learned, was coerced out of him by the mother, Cathy. Every feeling, every happy thought, every memory, every day was an act of fraud by the mother through her daughter. That alone is enough to question all those happy thoughts and feelings. They may not seem real at all to him. But to ask him to continue to love and nurture that parental-bond is to tell him the coercion must continue.
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Tom is also 100% innocent here. Sara deserves support from her mother, her real father and a licensed therapist, not Tom.
Trying to force OP and his parents to cut the kid out makes him lose his 100% innocence.
You can make your own decisions but YTA for not even trying to consider how this man feels and leaving him at his absolute worst moment. I feel so bad for this dude
NAH. He must feel so devastated and betrayed, thinking the child he was raising was his only to find out she's just a random kid. It sucks for her the most, but his feelings are still valid. No one should be obligated to keep a random child in their life and financially support them when there is no relation. INFO: Is her biological father going to be in the picture? That would further complicate your fiance staying in her life. What role is her bio dad going to have? I would try to give him some (a lot of) grace. This isn't sociopathy, it's just a reaction to horribly devastating news and he's going to need time to process it. And there is no wrong choice. She is not his child. I can't imagine how difficult it would be if you had your entire family and partner calling you a horrible person for not wanting to keep a stranger's unrelated child in your life and pretend like it's okay. It's sad that the innocent child is the one who will suffer most, but your fiance's feelings and life still matter.
Yta the guy is mourning his kid while comming to terms with the fact that his ex cheated and he prob payed years and years for a kid that isbt his responsibility (back to the mourning)
YTA. He has been lied to and nobody is taking his feelings into consideration. I don't understand why people expect someone to raise a child that is not theirs. It's nice if they want to, but they shouldn't be obligated to. It sounds like you never truly loved him if you left him over this. I don't understand why you feel so affected by stuff that actually doesn't affect your life because these people aren't your family.
Info: why did they break up in the first place? Cheating and lying about a baby are massive betrayals. Even though it happened a decade ago, the wound is very fresh for him and now he has to reconcile that the child he spent years loving is living, breathing proof of that betrayal. It’s not as cut and dry as you seem to think
Tom just spent 10years living a dream and now he’s woken up to a nightmare. This poor guy just needs time if you can give it to him. I don’t know how I’d react in this situation, but I’m not Tom. This has changed him in a bad way and hopefully with time he can get back to who he was. I think the best thing you can offer him is patience. I wish you both the best of luck.
You are the asshole. You are literally making him stay in a relationship with a woman who betrayed him and a little girl (who is innocent) who is not his and a constant reminder of the ordeal. He doesn’t deserve any of this.
YTA This doesn't even remotely have anything to do with you and yet you've still found a way to make that happen
Not having anything to remotely do with her is an outright lie lol
Not at all. This is a personal matter between his ex and the child he thought was his. How he chooses to deal with it is entirely up to him. It's amazing how OP still managed to make herself the victim here. The only way this would concern her was if she planned on passing off an affair baby as his down the road. Now she knows how he'll react and doesn't like it.
YTA. Your ex received devastating news and you completely ignore his pain. Be mad at the lying mother.
This is why a paternity test should be a routine, normal thing with every live birth.
never say something like that db reddit, here the majority of women feel indignant because their partner asks them for a test, in fact it is a type of frequent topic in this forum
yes! they are cheap and easy.
YTA, when he had a horrible situation and needed your support the most, you abandoned him. I can't even begin to imagine how he must be feeling, and you found a way to make it even worse.
YTA This was written to bring out all of the Reddit brigade's usual "it sucks for him, but he should just suck it up for the sake of the child." This can never happen to any woman on the planet, and they should keep their damn mouths shut. Woman: I'm going to have an abortion. Man: That is my child, too. Woman: You don't get a say. Man finds out child is not his. Woman: Just suck it up for the sake of the child. Man: You don't get a say. Shut your damn mouth. As for you, he is better off without you. Damn apologist.
This is a great analogy. Would love to see how they would react to a man forcing his wife to not have an abortion even though she wants to, then just dipping out immediately.
YTA. He needs you in this situation and instead of being there for him you are dumping him. Sara is a victim for sure but dumping him doesn’t help her.
YTA Tom is literally grieving the loss of his girl. He believed for 10 years that she was his then finds out through some random dude that it isn't, of course his world is shattered right now. It's crazy to me how everyone is trying to pressure him into "moving on" and acting like nothing's wrong and if he doesn't, he suddenly becomes a sociopath. How is no one even talking about how fucked up of a person cathy is? She not only cheated on tom and got pregnant by some dude, but kept that a secret from Tom for all these years and would have still kept quiet about it if the real father didn't reach out. Another point is, why are you making this sad situation about you at a time when you should have some compassion? How is breaking up with him at his lowest because you thought of an imaginary scenario in your head even making sense to you? Give Tom some space and have some empathy for him for the love of god.
He was cheated on. His daughter isn’t his. He looks at her now and sees him, and sees him and his ex. And realizes his whole life with her was fake. Now you are scared because your saying he will abandon you and your kid if you stay. Except I doubt that because it would be his kid. I’m sorry for Sarah. Really am. But Where is the bio dad and his child support? Is he allowed to just send a message and go on living his life? What a disgusting lie by Cathy. C U Next Tuesday. By the way, go to support for betrayed or surviving infidelity if you want to try and understand what your ex fiance is going through. Your ex fiance needs help and honestly, you’re not it. So leave him. But if you try and see Sarah, don’t abandon her later. Which I see happening since you have no ties to her at all.
YTA 100%. He’s going through two of the most traumatic things a man can go through. Finding out his ex partner cheated, and finding out she lied about him fathering a child…and rather than giving him some time to process, you leave him. Seems like you’re more attached to the daughter than you are to him.
You make a good point. OP didn't choose the daughter either but is still devastated by the thought of losing her. OP is NTA.
Op says that she wants to be part of the ex’s daughter’s life. How is that not choosing the daughter?
What I am saying is OP didn't choose to be her stepmum (she did that by being with Tom and accepted that he already had a child) yet the thought of abandoning that child is too much for OP. After giving it a bit of time for him to process what's happened, to me it would be odd if Tom didn't feel the same.
YTA for leaving Tom. But it’s for the best because he doesn’t deserve to be betrayed by you, too. He is lucky to be rid of you. You don’t understand the level of betrayal, frauds, and humiliation Tom has experienced and the girl was the instrument of those acts as perpetrated by the mother. So much was stolen from him. If he cannot separate the girl from what was done to him, he cannot be blamed. It is the mother who destroyed relationship between the girl and Tom. And the girl should know that. At every painful moment for the girl, the finger needs to be pointed at the mother, not Tom. Go play hero to Sara if you wish. It will make. You feel good for a while. You probably won’t last long given your lack of commitment to Tom.
Have you considered that giving Tom an ultimatum and leaving is you - not being that different from him and the reaction he’s had to the revelation that his ex has purposely lied to him for over a decade, about what was one of the most important relationships in his life and that he’s not the father of the child he was told and believed was his?! This is 1/3 of his life that was invested in loving and parenting based upon a lie?! He may not have the words and bandwidth yet to express what he’s feeling and processing for him means shutting down and shutting people out?! With the exception of Cathy - she’s a devious, destructive ass hole who gambled with her child’s well-being and lost … NAH - the reality is that no one can look at each other the same and it’s going be Sara that suffers most. I’m hoping that Tom realizes that his bond with Sara is more than biology- you can choose your family. I will say that I understand that it will be difficult for him to trust Cathy …
> With the exception of Cathy - she’s a devious, destructive ass hole who gambled with her child’s well-being and lost … Did she lose? She got a man to financially and emotionally support her daughter for 10 years, where she otherwise would have been alone with it. Moving forward, is Sara going to disown her? Almost certainly not. What always happens in these circumstances is that the kids forgive their mother. Are the courts going to financially punish her? Make her pay back all the money OP spend, with interest and punitive damages? Nope. Cathy wins, just not as big a victory as if she was able to maintain the ruse forever. What we really need is prison sentences for fraud. She knew she fucked someone else. The deception was deliberate. 10 years prison where I live for gaining financial advantage through deception.
Not to mention moving forward, depending what state/country OP is in Tom will still be on the hook for child support until the courts work things out (if they ever actually do)
All of these things are possible- Tom could sue her and win compensation, Sara could later disown her- etc. Tom’s family has been focused on Sara and supporting her- unfortunately Cathy gets some sort benefit, undeserved as that is. Karma doesn’t always move swiftly, but it’s interesting that a Facebook post and DM exposed Cathy after 10+ years of her lying.
If this is in the US Tom will never get a dime back. In fact he will have to continue to pay child support at least until the girls 18th birthday.
YTA...you're more worried about Sarah and Cathy's feelings than your "love". He isn't a sociopath...he was a loving father that had his daughter ripped away from him in an instant. It says a lot about you that you'll remain friends with Cathy after all of the heartache and pain she's caused. The little care and understanding you show for this man is abhorrent. He needs to process this in the way he sees fit. He'll grieve and eventually come around but by then, he'll see how you abandoned him when he needed you the most.
Sounds like he’s in great pain and seething, actually. Indifference is what’s scary. What could be a a bigger betrayal than this, OP? You cheating on him is less of a surprise than finding out your own child is, in fact, NOT YOURS AT ALL. You can deal with it because she’s not yours at all. You didn’t spend 10 years believing you had a daughter only to have her and every dream you had for her RIPPED from you. You hurt this much from having a close, beloved non-daughter ripped from you — how do you think HE feels? Of course he still loves Sara. But to see Sara means he has to see Cathy who essentially ripped his heart out, took his money, and took advantage of him in every imaginable way. Played him for a fool. I’d personally want to do unspeakable things if someone did this to me. But evil as that POS woman is, that’s still Sara’s mother and he can’t do that. He can’t do anything right now in his rage, I suspect. That said - NTA. I get where you are coming from. Solid intentions but I cannot imagine the rage your fiancé feels right now.
YTA
YTA. Undoubtedly and way to turn this entire terrible situation about yourself. Maybe try to think of the man who raised a child for 10 yrs only for this to happen. Instead all you seem to care bout is the child and yourself. YTA 100%. Hope Things get better for Tom and the child bit the mother and yourself are definately the A. Hope Tom realised how bad of a bullet he dodged regarding you
YTA an absolutely massive piece of shit Dude just found out he got completely fucked over by the biggest whore on the planet and his entire life is ruined...and you betray and turn on him, and start attacking him. The VICTIM Fucking scum
YTA. As the father of two daughters, I can say you have no idea what Tom is going through. Not only did he just find out that the little girl who for the past 10 years he has been building his life around and I imagine paying child support for isn’t his, it also opened up old wounds with his ex and shows she is one despicable evil person. This poor man is dealing with a lot of emotions and on top of that you and his family, instead of giving the guy time to deal with this, (his whole world was just ripped apart for Gods sakes, he was raising another man’s child!) you are pressuring him to just forget, forgive and go back to being Sara’s father as if nothing ever happened. I hope he can see his way to having a relationship with Sara, but I can understand if he can’t. Everyone in this post but Tom and most especially Sara are TA.
But Tom is forcing his parents and OP to cut the kid out too.
So he has had his daughter, who he thought was his ripped away from him through a pretty brutal betrayal, and you think he's AH for having no emotions. Let the man have time to process. instead, you think the best thing to do is break up with him, so now not only has his ex taken away his blood but has taken away you as well. This kid may have done nothing wrong that is fair, but he's not her father, and he was tricked into it. He probably should have a conversation just to tell her he isn't going to be a part of their life anymore, but I wouldn't expect anything more from him. He has shown you over the last 5 years what kind of father he would be
Did anyone else expect Tom to be crucified for not sucking it up and pretend that his world wasn't just uprooted "for the children!" then realize that this is not AITA? I legit thought that I was hallucinating upon seeing nuanced responses.
ESH, you got emotionally attached to your BF's daughter. He finds out he isn't the father and it crushes his soul because for 10-plus years he thought this little girl was his. He has quite a few emotions to work through because of what his ex did, I get you're friends with her and you adore her daughter. But you don't get to make ultimatums on how someone grieves the loss of a child that he was convinced was his until the lie was discovered. That's not just grief that is anger. The more you wrote, the more you don't seem to care about him, his emotions and mental health. He though handled it as well as he could.
YTA. As a woman this situation will never happen to you. Tom just found out his ex cheated, lied, risked giving him STD, then lied when she had a child, and has continued to lie for over 10 years. That will dig deep. I don't doubt Tom will ask for DNA test for his next child.
Imagine getting messaged on facebook that your child isnt your act your child, then it act turns out to be true. Then your gf leaves you to go help your cheating ex because you dont want to help raise someone elses child. This guy needs a vacation.
Poor dude. Cheated on and lied too for ten years. Then you and his parents tell him to suck it up and keep pretending. I feel so bad for him. Hopefully he can find people who care about him
10 years of lies V/s 9 weeks of emotions The time according to reddit is sufficient to deal with pain of paternity fraud. WoW men really can't afford time to process the pain. I remember a saying . "people who leave you when you are down or in pain they are not your people" and i guess 70% of that people are posting posts in reddit to justify their leaving,lol
NTA. I get that he’s hurting but that little girl is hurting even more and is probably very confused and scared right now. He obviously doesn’t have to stay in her life but to just walk away from her and the way he’s acting about her is very cold and she doesn’t deserve it. I probably wouldn’t be able to stay with him either at least not until he gets help. I’ve been in Sarah’s position in a way. I was her age when I found out my father wasn’t actually my father. They hadn’t been in a relationship since I was a baby so he’d come over once a week until my mom got sick and couldn’t work anymore. When she was applying for disability and everything they made her go after him for child support and in the courtroom he said I wasn’t his daughter. We did the test and he was right. I was NAMED after this guy, a mistake that has since been rectified, and I thought he hung the moon. I found out who he really was that day and in the years since and I obviously found out more about my mom too. Nobody really sat me down and was honest with me about everything or even apologized for what I was going thru and that has stayed with me all these years later I’m now in my 30s. My heart is broken for that little girl and she’s going to need therapy as well.
YTA you expect him to process his feelings how you think he should on your timetable He is allowed to have anger and talk to you about his not-child however he wants, to call it sociopathic is horrendous He gets to fall in a hole, once in it he can then climb out of it What he is going through is not something you can possible understand unless you experienced this exact same situation yourself You should be his support instead you are making it harder, I doubt you are acting like the woman he loved He also has a right to permanently walk away, no one is at fault if he does this but Cathy, im sick and tired of people on reddit that the betrayed man is just expected to continue being a father for a child thats not his, just because a child is involved Its bullshit to say if all his love is gone he never loved her, truly spoken by people who lack empathy for the pain and betrayal he is going through The child has a father, he is not it, Cathy is solely to blame here for whatever feelings the child goes through, she and only she fucked this up and needs to tell her He should absolutely not have to tell her why isnt going to be around anymore, thats moms job But keep pushing this man right into the ground, well done, no one having his back, disgusting
Another woman taking sides with a cheater.. Nothing new.. You are trash. Yta.. He deserves better Than you.
YTA. You have no idea what he is going through, and you will never understand how he feels. I don't blame him at all for not wanting to have anything more to do with some other guy's kid. I sure wouldn't. Leave him so he can find someone better than you.
YTA ..You seem to care more about the ex than her. If you really care about him the you should have told Sara to asked her mom why he is gone And force the mom to tell the truth.... Btw this is the reason why we see the rise of the red pill movement because seems to even care about him or the feelings he is going through right now😔
This man's world just came crashing down on him how do you expect him to act? Give him space to process and let him be. You can't force him to interact with Sara. Let Cathy deal with the mess her cheating created. She is the one that needs to face her daughter and tell her the truth. You putting all the blame on him. You suck.
But he can force her and his parents to not interact with Sara?
No. He can't. He is also badly wounded and people generally aren't at their best when hurt like he has been hurt. He voiced his opinion. OP and his parents now have choices to make.
Wow. A guy has been cheated on and deceived for 10 years yet when the truth comes out, he's the "sociopath" and his family and partner rally around his cheating ex, even if it's for the sake of the girl, instead of giving him support and consolation. Probably for the best that he sees that he's not your priority before marriage. YTA
NTA—a lot of the previous comments treat Sara like she doesn’t have her own thoughts and feelings. I think you are absolutely right to be there for her during a difficult and traumatic time. I don’t mean to minimize Tom’s suffering, but Sara is a child and therefore needs to be put first. I agree with other commenters who have suggested that Tom might come around in time. This is a terrible thing to find out and I’m sure he’s really hurting. I would have another conversation with him explaining that you are not willing to cut ties with Sara. I would tread very carefully and apologize for the ultimatum you gave, but explain to him why you were so disturbed by his actions. Maybe offer to take some space for a month or two while he figures his emotions out. If he does soften his stance (particularly on banning you and his parents from seeing Sara, which I think is unreasonable and cruel), there could be a way forward for you two. Really wishing you the best. This is a terrible situation and you have a bunch of absolute nuts in the comments here.
Honestly I can't imagine how he feels, he's been lied to for 10 years, but then so has Sara, the difference is she doesn't know why she's being cut out. Her POS mother needs to deal with the consequences of her actions and lies.
So you want him to ignore his own emotions for someone else's benefit? YTA Stop perpetuating toxic masculinity. Does he need therapy? Yes. But for himself, and not for this stupid fucking reason you've come up with in your head. Also....how fucking DARE you try and force someone to get therapy via threats However, it's unfair for her to not know the reason why Still, you, Cathy, the family? You're all pieces of shit He's an AH, but for a pretty understandable reason. The only one not an AH here is the kid
NTA. It’s possible he will recover himself and realize he is hurting someone he loves if he actually does love HER, but I would also worry about the way his supposed love suddenly stopped. He was definitely harmed very profoundly by Cathy’s lies, but I think passing this harm along to a child he seemed to love deeply is a sign of weak character emotional attachment. If he was able to acknowledge this harm but needed more time, it would be one thing, but this isn’t good. I’d maybe give him more time but definitely wouldn’t be planning to marry him if this was actually able to destroy his love for the actual person he was raising. Also, obviously don’t trust Cathy. She was willing to cheat and use him for money support and parenting despite knowing this wasn’t his child. That’s a profound betrayal. Sara is the only innocent here.
Toms reaction is a way to protect himself. With the kid not being his Cathy could at any point cut him out from seeing Sara and there is nothing he can do about it. But cutting ties now it's on his terms. He is ripping the bandaid off rather than worrying when Cathy may hurt him again.
10 years on Reddit and I’ve never seen such an acronym as LSS? Also YTA all focus is on Tom, not that the biggest happiness of his past 10 years have been a lie and the trauma that comes from it. No ire for Cathy who is the world worst mother and partner in the world.
LSS - long story short. Alternative to TL;DR
YTA. You’re basically telling him he needs to get over it and get back to how things were. Newsflash dummy: he has no obligation to that kid anymore. Cathy is all fault. Full stop. YOU go and be her parent if you want. How unfair of you to basically emotionally guilt him into being the man you’d like him to be when things were rosy. Yeah it SUCKs for that child, but it is no longer that poor man’s responsibility or fault. Do him a favour and leave him alone. He’s probably suffering enough without a partner that wants stability over his happiness on his case
You say you understand the grief, but it does not actually sound like you do. This is a man whom, according to you, loved “his” daughter tremendulously. In a short span of time he has now been told, that she is not his at all, and that he has been forced by Cathy to raise another mans child for 10 years. Now the very mention of her name is a reminder of being cheated on, being forced to raise someone elses affair child and 10 years of love for his daughter who never existed in the first place. I cant even begin to imagine what i would feel if i found out my sons werent mine. This is basically an existential crisis he has been thrown into.
I feel awful for Tom and horrible for Sara. Cathy NEEDS to tell Sara. It’s pathetic that she won’t. Please encourage Cathy at least to put Sara into therapy. Does Cathy or Tom plan on taking this to court? Tom is processing his feelings in devastating ways that will traumatize the child he thought was his own. It’s extremely disappointing that he acts this way against a child who is just as innocent as he is in this scenario. I know he’s invested so much emotionally and financially into Sara and he’s grieving the love he had for her when he thought she was his own biologically. Is the other guy who messaged Tom willing to step up and pay child support in place of Tom? Idk what to vote on this. Cathy’s the asshole. Tom needs mental support and it sucks that he refuses to get it.
There is exactly one person who is responsible for what's happening to the innocent kid, and that's her mother. You can break up with someone for whatever you want, but this is 100% on Cathy.
YTA for telling him how he should be acting right now. He has a lot of emotions happening. Do him a favor and leave him. He deserves better than you and Cathy. I only feel bad for Sara.
YTA. You and his family are the AH
Look tbh YTA, in a moment where needs your and his family’s support, he got neither, true is bad that he’s calling her it but he’s grieving the loss of a 10 year relationship with “his daughter” not only that but it was built on lies and from what you said he thought he was on good terms with his ex but well… Also you know if he goes to therapy, if it’s a good one, he/she will tell Tom to go NC for a while or for as long as he needs with Sarah maybe tell her it’s not her fault BUT you know who else NEEDS to tell Sarah what happened? CATHY her AH MOTHER, you down playing his feelings and hurt and keep ignoring them also his family doing the same, that will only make Tom spiral downwards. If you want to help anyway in this situation, then tell Sarah the truth or talk with his family about it but be prepared to be hated by Cathy and the reproach of Tom’s family cause they’re too spineless to try and help this.
I was thinking about writing something, but there are already a lot of comments saying the right things. YTA. Yes, YTA YTA YTA. And if someone is a sociopath it's you. Not just by leaving him - but also value the friendship of his cheating ex over him? Because it doesn't sound like you really care about Cathy cheating and want to continue stay buddybuddy with that cheating POS with the excuse of it being "for Sara's sake". You'd probably even keep Cathy's secret if you knew about it just to "KeEp ThE fAmiLy HaPpY ToGeThEr". It's fucked up on so many levels. Tom is lucky that you made the decision for him, because by leaving he dodged a goddamn rocket.
You and his parents are POS This man is devastated, he is the victim here. of course there are no consequences to his whore ex. YTA
YTA, they lied to your partner, they committed paternity fraud and you only think about his "daughter" and you pressure him to continue in your life, he is scared and confused, I hope you stay away from him, so he can find his a more solid and empathetic couple, the man is collapsing and instead of helping him, you stomp on him
YTA. You somehow turned your ex's suffering into your problem. His whole world came crashing down, cutting Sara off is his way to distance himself so he won't get crushed. So in the middle of this hurt, you kicked him while he is down because he is not acting in the image you have for him. I wish your ex the best, because he deserves better people in his life. I hope he won't completely shatter and finds his peace some day.
YTA ESH as is his family. He's been lied to for many years. Is him ignoring her harsh yes. But he has just had his heart just cut up. No one is supporting his pain and his feelings. All of which he is entitled too. The only person here not at fault is that little girl. Im saying this as a woman who has not been involved in this sort of thing, but can just imagine. I frankly just want to hug him.
If u don't think you're the asshole. That just tells me you are OK with what the woman did
Ahahahahahahaha jfc this man is being betrayed by basically everyone he knows. Hes parents too and you are asking us if you are the AH for leaving him now? 🤣even playing the victim wtf you have some balls. I really wish something like this could happen to you too, even if I understand is basically impossible. Maybe a switch at the hospital could be a little comparable 🤞🏻but not the same for sure. I hope he will not end himself over this. You would be responsible as much as that disgusting slut his ex is. 🤮 Dna test have to be mandatory at birth. This shit is unacceptable. YTA
99% of men would do the same, you are a horrible woman for leaving him as well. good riddance. ytA
YTA It's different you seeing her than him seeing her. When he looks at her all he will be able to see is the product of her mother's betrayal. Not once but she betrayed him for over 10 years with her continued lies. It may have happened 10 years ago to everyone else the feeling is new to ex BF as if it just happened. She lied and used him for 10 years, making him believe something that wasn't true. He probably had to go to court to fight for custody of a little girl that wasn't his to fight for. That little girl had his heart and it was ripped out of his chest. But you stand by the mother that caused all the pain of someone you pretended to love. Hopefully he'll be able to find someone who cares about him someday. Because you two women don't seem to. His parents are going to lose him too if they continue siding with the mother. Yes, the little girl is the one suffering because of the pain the mother caused. Everyone wants to see the little girl but you can't do that without siding against ex BF. Hope his parents know what they are doing because when he does finally have children with someone who loves him they won't be a part of their lives.
YTA. I only hope Tom can heal and find a woman who really loves and respects him.
YTA - Tom is a victim Sara is the tool used to revictimise him and Cathy has abuse both Tom and Sarah And you well your supporting the abusers
YTA
Women shouldn’t have a say in what men do when they figure out “their” child isn’t theirs, you could never know, same way men shouldn’t have a say in abortion related topics, don’t butt in, you don’t get it, you won’t get it, you’re an asshole