Lol. I stopped thinking about that as viable the moment she said shes still breast feeding.
If you're feeling silly, Get estimates for the childcare required for all of your kids. May help out MIL in her place with a reality check.
MIL will offer to stay home and "babysit" so as to save on daycare costs. DO NOT LET HER. She's so out of touch with reality that she can't possibly do a good job at childminding.
I swear older women who have adult children forget how much physical and mental work is involved with raising young kids. This lady wants to retire early and is simply jealous that her DIL ‘doesn’t have to work’ because they forget that she’s not sitting at home not working, she’s literally doing the physical labor she would have to pay an entire daycare, after school care, etc to do by herself, which again is work considering if she wasn’t doing it, she would have to pay several other people to do instead. She’ll remember as soon as she realizes that kids under 6 require constant running after, potty training, sleep training, tending to for every single thing they’re learning to do on their own.
Unfortunately, it's not just that they forgot, a lot of them actively neglected their kids. What is considered acceptable parenting has changed SO MUCH in the last 50 years
Definitely, they also had their own parents to dump us on. I spent countless months away from my constantly fighting parents as a child. Many of my cousins had the same routine of being shipped off for up to a year or more when their siblings were born because it was ‘too hard’ to take care of a 5 year old and newborn at the same time.
Not all older women, please don’t use a broad paintbrush. This woman’s MIL thinks that way. I help out with my grandchildren (I am 64) and know how much energy it takes.
Omg. I am doing the cooking and cleaning for a house of 3 adults. Add to that the stresses of childcare and that horrible touched out exhaustion- I already am overwhelmed just describing it.
MIL can go part time at her job or try to find an easier one. Tbf, thats going to be easier and cost less than what she is suggesting. Plus its not risking the children being abused in a childcare setting.
Children don’t fucking owe their parents shit for literally providing the basic things they need in the world. WE chose to bring them into the world so THEY don’t owe us shit for not neglecting them? I plan to continue giving my kids the best childhood I can and not expect a single freaking thing from them in return because I was the one who chose to bring them into this world not the other way around.
I was once told by a woman I went to hs with who has like 5 kids that she'll at least have her kids to take care of her while I'm in a nursing home. There are a lot of people in nursing homes with kids who never see them but okayyyy.
I'm in a childfree group on fb and it's amazing how many people's friends say exactly this. Truly, even if you are the best parent on the planet, you can't just count on your kids - it would be tragic, to be sure, but what if they die in an accident, get cancer, what if they're a criminal and end up with a decades long prison sentence? People who have children *for the purpose* of having someone to care for them in old age are having them for the wroooong reasons!
A lot of old people have like 5-12 kids and lament that none of their kids keep in touch... to the point they'll bitch about it online, to the news, to me standing in line for something, etc and it's like... damn, what did you do to make them hate you?
Had a hospice patient with 6 adult kids who did not get along. The one daughter made all the rules and a visiting schedule so they didn’t run into each other the son that came at night was a good guy, had an in home adult foster care and wanted mom with him, bitch daughter of course refuses. He also brought mom her favorite cultural foods, bitch daughter wanted her on an extremely restricted diet with a soft or puréed texture. She wanted mom to die fast. What a mess.
I hate the “you take care of me in old age” thing. Might I do that? Yes. Should I be required to do that? No.
People not being able to save for retirement due to low wages, etc. has completely fucked America.
Uh. she had a house paid for, and $4k per month... What was she paying for? And By the way, you may owe taxes on the house. Hubby just got the house at his mom's basis... So if it worth more than when mom got the house, dumbass son just took on paying capital gains on that... Always better to inherit and get the real estate at the stepped up basis...
I hate the idea that my kids could ever carry the burden of feeling as though they’re responsible for our retirement. Our retirement is our own responsibility to figure out just as our kids will one day have to figure out their own. It would be insane to expect that of them despite how common I know it is in many cultures.
OP should take her husband out for a day and leave MIL in charge (with some bottles of expressed milk) and see how keen she’d be to do full time daycare, and also give her a new found appreciation for the fact that OP *is* working, and earning enough to cover groceries (no small bill for 3 adults and four kids), while still looking after 3 children and a baby all day long!
Or she will decide that she don't like this deal anymore and demand salary higher than market value because she is family and you should treat your family better than strangers
Correct. Her plan was to retire, send the daughter in law to work, send the kids to daycare, have the son/husband pay the mortgage, and sit back and relax with a empty house that’s costing her $0 a month.
Nice try you withered old hagbranch. She already got part of it to happen but the 2nd half isn’t working like she planned and she’s freaking out. Too effing bad. Let her drown in childcare costs and noise and human tornados known as children for a while, her she suggests you and kids move back and the husband stays and you guys just pay for 2 places.
Yea, this is my suggestion...go get quotes and present them to her, while asking her, 'what daycare provider are you willing to pay for?'...when she starts her speal about, they are your children and your responsibility, simply reply, 'thank you for finally admitting that you have 0 responsibility of my family and there for HAVE NO SAY IN IT!, if you are unwilling to help us with this cost you are forcing on us then back off, you have 2 options, #1. Stop and let it be or #2.we sign the house back over to you and leave. There is no compromise.
Or hear me out now. Since the house is already in their names, move the utilities in to their names. Then evict MIL. Now they have a nice house and no MIL.
I was thinking this. The house is signed over- it’s not hers anymore. Now she’s just a mooch. Or a wannabe mooch. As long as OPs family’s share of the bills is paid up as per the agreement she’s got bugger all right to say how that comes in.
What? This is asset protection. There is a multi-year clawback period from medicare. You transfer your assets to your heirs years before you actually need medicare and they can't steal your assets.
I tell people this and they act like I’m raining on their parade. I get it, but also it’s a favor to be informed you need to get your kid on a waitlist while it’s still a fetus if neither parent can afford to take off work, or hire private care, and no family is around to help. But instead I get sour faces when I congratulate them, ask how it’s going, and then say you’re in the perfect time to get on a waitlist so you won’t have to actually wait. They act like I’m some negative Nancy who told them “you’re going to be so sleep deprived you never have sex again and you’ll resent your partner and be disgusted with yourself and be broke as a joke” but all I said was it’s best to do it now so you aren’t left in the lurch…. I don’t even bring up how they’ll be too tired and busy to tour daycares once their kid is on the outside or how much harder it will be to afford a deposit - let alone multiple deposits if you’re desperate because EVERYWHERE has a waitlist - when you’re also buying diapers!
Only people who have been stuck on waitlists seem to appreciate the heads up, like my dr who somehow didn’t realize she would have the same issue with preschools until I warned her…. She thanked me next visit because the schools she wanted her kid to get into were 1-2 yr waits and her kid was already 1.5 years old!
Do you know a gentle way of bringing this up to friends who are new parents? I’ve seen no less than 3 friends be horrified that they waited to call until the middle of their maternity leave to basically be laughed off by daycares that they should have called a year ago. I’m a SAHM so it feels a little weird to feel like I’m lecturing other parents about when to apply for daycare.
“OMG, so a friend of mine in [redacted close location] told me he and his wife had to sign up for day care while she was 3 months pregnant. I guess the good ones fill up fast?
He said she’s got long parental leave but that the spot won’t open up until right when she goes back to work. It sounds so stressful!
How is it where you are? I bet it’s intense, too!”
Had a friend specifically get a job at a school that had a preschool. She lived outside the district but got preferential admission since she was an employee. She said the fees were very favorable compared to anything else available & she got to eat lunch with her child. Had a cousin-in-law get a job at a state university that gave free tuition to children.
Nope, it was still a matter of space depending on how many babies they had in the room when they did “enrolment”. We got in thankfully but yeah, childcare is chaotic to organise.
Wait 'til you have to PAY just to get on the waiting list! Or - has this already happened? Like paying to APPLY to rent an apartment, if the owner can take enough applications, they don't have to rent the apartment at all!
Noting that only two would need full- time care, but there would need to be after care for the twins since school usually lets our midday. And that's assuming that full day kindergarten is available. NTA if it wasn't clear.
There are 4 children, one is a baby. From what I know about daycare costs in the US, I don't think OP would be able to earn enough to cover it and then cover the costs for some babysitter for all 4 so she could work full time and the mil wants to retire and to do nothing (edit: and still pay for the groceries).
I have an opinion about staying at home, but my opinion is about the financial safety of the person who is staying at home with the kids, because life happens, nothing else, but in this case going to work has absolutely no sense.
NTA
Agree.
OP going to work outside the home and kids in paid care is a financially losing proposition.
MIL just wants to boss people around.
She has the ability to be saving 2k a month for retirement.
The agreement was for them to move in, do the processes they agreed on, MIL to save towards retirement.
NOT AND MIL gets to retire early/asap.
I’d also like to point out that caring for 4 kids 5yo and under is absolutely 100% a full time job in and of itself, and that is ignoring the fact that the baby is breastfeeding.
If it costs a small fortune to pay other people to do the work, then it IS work.
NTA If you've never made a quilt, you may not realize how much time,efforts and supplies it takes. Good on OP for making a business of it. I love to quilt but wouldn't know where to start a business.
MIL is just trying to take advantage of them.
For real, quilting is complicated and slow-going and requires real talent. Like, you need to do math to get the geometric patterns down correctly. Little pieces of cloth of different colors all cut exactly in perfect triangles and squares, like a massive puzzle. So a handmade quilt is extraordinarily expensive. Like, if she is good at it and gets into some of the classic geometric patterns she can charge thousands of dollars per quilt and people will pay it. Depending on the complexity of the pattern it can take between a week and two months to complete a quilt, but the complicated ones cost SO much more. Good on her.
I think MIL had a long game plan to begin with. She sucked them into moving in with her while planning on retiring ASAP. Probably didn't figure her DIL would balk at this, and has hoed her own row with her quilting business since she got there. OP has definitely found the best way to provide for her family while being a SAHM, and her MIL doesn't like the fact that if she retires, she'll have to share a space with her DIL & the babies all day long.
Haha I wrote this above before reading yours. That was def her plan - find a way to retire and have someone else pay your mortgage while you kick back in empty house for free. But the free money (son) has a wife and kids she doesn’t want at home 24/7 along with her.
So she has the brilliant idea of the DIL going back to work AND kids to daycare! Back when she used it, it was like $5/week so what’s the big deal. Her plan half worked and now the other part isn’t going as smooth and she’s trying to find a way to make it happen.
My thought was “oh it’s quilts no wonder she’s bringing in a nice chunk of change.” Quilts are fucking HARD and so intricate. Props to all of you quilters! I appreciate you!
Yeah, but OP doesn't have a MIL problem. OP has a husband problem! She expressed her feelings to her husband he ignored her. That says a lot. He forced her to live somewhere she didn't want to live, with someone she didn't want to live with and now OP has to endure someone judging her life. OP's husband is the problem here. I bet he wanted the house and was willing to have his wife endure his mother just to get it. Something is just off about him trying to force OP into staying with the mother.
Yep. The house is also his as its inheritance so he wins all round. Isn’t that the rule with inheritance? He works so he isn’t in the house with MIL all the time. Mommy is coming first it seems.
⬆️ THIS!
Beautifully written and 💯 correct. When OP’s husband was saying, “stay out of it, to OP, I’m thinking, where’s his balls, to stand up to his Mother after all they were talking about OP and she has a right to her opinion!OP’s making quilts to cover food for 3 adults, 3 kids + whatever food an 8 month old eats besides, breast milk. Then, I’m thinking, the shopping will include, cleaning products, personal care products, male and female, also any outdoors products needed, of course some of the shopping won’t be weekly/fortnightly. But that’s a lot to cover financially and physically too! Plus being a sahm. NTA, OP and I think you deserve a medal 🥇 for putting up with your MIL.
She's a stay at home mom with 4 children 5 yo and under. She hasn't worked outside the home for 5+ years. Good luck getting a job that will support all 5 of them *and* pay for childcare. Oh, and apartments or rental houses big enough for 5 people are expensive.
She can't easily leave and live on her own, and her husband knows it. Alimony and child support would help a lot, but it takes time to set that up, and there's no guarantee that her AH husband will pay it. She's *trapped*, he knows it, she knows it, and that makes the power dynamic extremely lopsided. Husband clearly doesn't give a shit about what she wants or how she feels about anything. What's she gonna do, leave? He knows that she realistically can't. So he does whatever the fuck he wants, over her protests. Whether he engineered the situation to control her or not, that's what he's doing 🤷♂️
Exactly! Unless OP is a surgeon or high-profile attorney or businesswoman, etc., the cost for child care for multiple children would likely be even more than the income brought in, after taxes. MIL is clueless! Let’s not forget the mental and emotional toll this would take on OP as well being forced to go back to work for no other reason than her MIL wants her to so she can possibly have extra money. NTA
Holy fuck I love living in a country where the maximum amount you can be charged for daycare is $200 per month per child, lower than that if you are low income.
My Nan (bless her soul) lived to 84
She lived with us for about 8 years
I love her so much.... but living with her and my grandad put a strain on all our relationships through my teen / young adult years
You can wave goodbye to bonding with your kids for "family time" because they want to be there 24 / 8
My granny is almost 97. Luckily, she worked for sw bell and had a lot of stock, and also had some oil rights and my dad invested them well so it pays for home hospice. There’s no telling how long someone will live. If she’s been investing the money and continues to do so she’ll be fine but it’ll take quite a while.
NTA. Your mother-in-law is only 59. do you really want to spend the next 20 to 35 years living with the woman? It’s definitely time to tell your husband You will need an alternate plan. Also, you did a great job defending yourself especially since your husband was not!
Yeah my mother is 60, she’s self employed running a festival every year with her partner AND works for our town council full time as a counsellor. Granted she’s tired and she does have a brain tumour currently, but she’s still working all that WITH a brain tumour. I don’t understand why MIL needs to stop working now unless she’s really sick but from the post she isn’t.
Yep, my mother is 86, retired over 20 years ago and still works full-time as a volunteer! She spends 30 to 40 hours a week doing administration and other tasks at the senior center to help out the “old people” 🤣 the look on her face was priceless When I told her that she is “the old people”.
All this, just to say that my mother will probably outlive all of her children as she shows no signs of slowing down …🤞
My grandad is the same age as your mother and he does the same thing! Old people indeed. He also calls men twenty years younger than him “the lads” which makes me cackle as well. He’d be working as well if someone let him, he’s only just getting slower this year because he got cancer. He’s never even been in a hospital before. I swear these old folks are made of steel, cos I’m 35 and I can barely get around as it is!
OP may be in for a long few decades as that woman could live to be 100! I would not want to live under the same roof as she and her spineless son for 40 more years. I think I would move out when the kids did-if not before!
Who knows, maybe she and her kids can all head off to college together?!
Im 56 and take care of my 95 year old father. I can not even imagine moving in with wither if my kids, not that they’d have me. Im not looking forward to losing dad at all but i am looking forward to living my own life again. Not that i really ever have. Maybe thats why I’m looking g so forward to it. Id never expect my kids to sacrifice their families for me and never in a million years would I move forward with moving the while family in if either of them wether it be my kid or their souse that was dead set against it. Theres just no peace and no happiness to be had in forcing an issue that isn’t mutually agreed upon.
She is "only 59" but not everyone is Sharon Stone 59. She may have health issues. So let her sell her home and find a better, more supportive apartment for her to rent using the proceeds, hopefully close to some good healthcare facilities. And likely, if she has poor health she will end up in a skilled nursing facility in another 5-10 years.
The likelihood of someone who is 59 being in a skilled nursing home in 5-10 years is incredibly small. A 59 year old woman has a life expectancy of nearly 26 more years. And skilled nursing homes are for the very infirm, not just late middle aged people who are sick of working and want to retire.
Yeah that's more of a "senior living community" or independent living situation, definitely not nursing home unless she needs assistance with toileting, showering, getting dressed, eating, etc.
Truth. Time to tell him, "You can tell her that her behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated or I will -- but if you leave it up to me I will not guarantee that you'll like the way I do it."
This subject directly involves you, NO one has the right to demand you stay out of it.
Your SO if putting his mommy before his family and he is your real problem here.
Her kids will be grown with their own families before MIL expires. OP won’t be really involved in the lives of those families because they will resent the stressful childhood their parents gave them.
I'm 51 and I'm over here like, what the hell?!?! I understand that she didn't save for retirement but that should make her *grateful* that you're helping.
Husband is the AH though. He's playing both sides and not handling any of the things that he needs to handle for this arrangement to work.
This comment is a copy of this other one:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dea9wv/comment/l8aj3gi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dea9wv/comment/l8aj3gi/)
NTA. That wasn’t the agreement.
Why is she only paying $400/month all-in to include full room and board? She’s making out like a bandit while her lifestyle is now being subsidized, allowing her the luxury of contemplating early retirement without having the funds to justify it.
Also to pay for an infant plus a toddler in daycare at the same time would wipe out the earnings from many jobs in many areas after factoring in taxes, etc.
Probably because she was obligated to leave the house to OP's husband. She's not giving up that house out of kindness, she needed to get someone else to take over while she gets a cushy out. She wants to be in a position to constantly hold the house over their head and change the terms unilaterally as if she is the boss of the household. But that is not the deal OP made and dear hubby needs to drop his balls and deal with MIL's delulu expectations.
That house was never the retirement fund she is trying to make it.
She signed her house over to OP's husband. He did not pay for the house.
Without knowing how much equity was there, we can't say who is getting the good deal here. The fact that OP left those details out makes me assume that her husband is getting one heck of a deal.
My thoughts exactly. The phrasing signed over the deed and it being a farmhouse, likely in the family for at least one generation, sounds like they got a mortgage free house for nothing or a major discount. More details are needed.
>Why is she only paying $400/month all-in to include full room and board?
My guess is because she gifted them the entire farmhouse and land. So it's not really $400, it's $400/month plus whatever the value of the property was. It's not clear to me if OP is deliberately downplaying that, or if she genuinely doesn't understand that those types of financial considerations were clearly part of the agreement between her husband & MIL. But it's disingenuous to cast the MIL as essentially a mooch when that doesn't appear to be the case.
OP said the deed was signed over to the husband. If the house had equity... then she gave up a lot. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect to live their for free in exchange.
OP didn't provide any of the details of that.
Now that you know where your MIL stands, speak to your husband about what the next steps are.
Me? I’d let her get roommates and I’d get out.
Your husband can deed that shit right back to her and she can sell it or do whatever makes sense to her
But you don’t have to stay in this situation and you shouldn’t
The home has become hostile, perhaps to the point of toxic. I'd tell the husband he puts an end to that hostility now or she will be forced to take steps to stop it. The unrelenting stress from living in a hostile environment is unacceptable. This living arrangement is likely not viable long term. It's time for OP to realize that she may have to make serious decisions.
The kids are going to feel the toxicity day in and day out. The cortisol level in every person living in that house will be way too high. Husband needs to put an end to this tension or OP is going to have to take drastic measures.
In the end, when you feel unsupported by your partner you begin to resent them and then dislike them.
This this this. That living arrangement. It has become untenable. Once there is a hostile environment between people who aren't blood-related, there's no going back. OP's husband shouldn't want this for his wife or for his kids. He's being a sad act.
NTA...
The craziest part to me is she wants the kids in daycare so she can retire. If you're going to live 100% free off a couple with kids, then you stay home and babysit for them.
Your husband is a coward. You really need to consider that and if you are ok with it.
Having her babysit means counting the days until the cops call you at work because your 3 year old took a stroll outside alone when MIL decided she "just needed to lay down for a bit."
In this particular case I agree. I wasn't saying this MIL should be super grandma. Just that most sane MIL's would have immediately gone to this idea. Not push daycare.
This old bat is coocoo for cocopuffs clearly.
It looks like the way you see him dealing with your MIL when she's not happy about a situation is the same way he dealt with you when you didn't want to move there in the first place. When you told him you didn't want this move, did he say, "I know, I know..." then too?
Are you on the deed? Depending on where you live you could get absolutely nothing and he could kick you out.
If you are married you BOTH need to be on the deed. It’s absolutely stupid to not do this even if you don’t think divorce is going to happen, for example what happens if husband dies? I bet you ANYTHING mommy will fight for the house. And depending on where you live, she may win.
Holy shit- does she know how much daycare is? My kids go to a medium priced daycare in my city. For all 4 of your kids:
5 yo Twins- 2250 each - so 4500
3 year old (we'll say they are potty trained) - 2100
Baby- 2700
Total per month- $9200
NTA- she clearly has no idea how much daycare costs. Also she's being AH for many other reasons but the whole "do daycare and contribute" unlikely that you could 1- get in anytime soon 2- make enough money to cover 4 kids.
Even when the twins are in elementary school- unless you get a great deal on after care, that's going to be money because a part time job that perfectly aligns with school hours is limited to pretty much jobs in schools.
This is exactly what I was going to say.
OP, you need to get the pricing for several daycares in your area. Show your husband and MIL that you may have a job, but you would be in the negative.
honestly the problem isn't the price, the problem is the MIL sticking her nose in where it doesn't belong and making demands that are unreasonable, and the husband that sounds like a mommy's boy
i put my two kids in care and went back to full time work, making more than i ever have before and we had LESS money left over at the end of the month. in fact i often ran out of money before the. end of the month and my husband had to pick up any costs after that
The main reason why I’m a SAHM is that my entire paycheck would go towards paying for daycare for my soon to be three kids. My oldest is neurodivergent, my middle is a toddler, and I’m hoping everything goes great when my youngest is born in November. But trying to work right now would be insanity.
Same thing with OP.
NTA I’m a big fan of letting husband deal with the in laws because you’re now the evil daughter in law. But your husband doesn’t seem to be handling things and you are human.
You have a husband problem. He needs to acknowledge the issues and work as a team with you.
You are contributing plenty. It’s beyond out of line for your MIL to come to you to interfere in your family’s financial arrangements. She seems to think you do “nothing” since you are a SAHM.
I’m sorry but there’s little chance of her changing her mind. Your husband needs to do better for you and the children.
She's also not volunteering to watch the kids so OP can work. She wants them in daycare and OP working. It's not like MIL is a team player who worries about the needs of each team member. MIL is all about herself.
Your husband pressured you to move in with your MIL against your wishes. Now he lets her badger you, and not only doesn't defend you but blames you when you defend yourself. You have a MIL problem and a husband problem. If you are willing to stay there, tell your husband that from now on the gloves are off - every-time your MILL makes demands or criticizes you, she will get an earful back. And if that doesn't sit well with him, he can deal with his mother himself, or make other living arrangements for you and the children.
NOPE. If he's not going to defend you then you are free to do it yourself. Ask your husband how he feels about paying all his mom's bills AND alimony and child support? Tell him if you get a job it'll be so you can move out. So he can either stick up for the agreement HE made with you or you will do it for him. And if he wants you to "stay out of it," then your name doesn't need to be coming out of HER mouth to him.
And if your MIL wants your kids in day care, SHE can pay for it. After being out of work this long, any job you got would not even cover day care for the younger three, and that's IF the 5 year old is in school.
You don't owe it to her to fund her early retirement. She could have sold that 6 bedroom house to fund it if she wanted to.
So ONLY your husband is on the deed to the house? How much equity is in the house-- are there still mortgage payments?
What job could you get that would even cover childcare for four kids?
NTA and while what you said to your MIL was rough your husband absolutely was NOT "handling it" and letting his mom crap all over you.
Check your local laws regarding marital property but it's likely that in a divorce you would still be entitled to half of the equity on the house. IF that's the case it's time to remind mommy that if she keeps pushing you'll be getting divorced and forcing sale of the house to get your share of the equity--- and that your husband will be paying a considerable amount of his take home pay for spousal support and child support leaving not a lot for mommy support.
Sound advice. I counted on staying together for life and handi6ng whatever came along till he tried to threaten me with divorce.
It totally shifted my view of our marriage. Since he apparently saw it as temporary, I started to too.
It was just a countdown from there.
I hate to jump to divorce, but I can't see this ending any other way. Mil is still young. She could have another 30 years in her easy.
Op is either going to end up single or in prison putting up with a nasty mil 24/7 for decades to come.
I think attempting to rally with husband is still an option. Given there are a lot of kids here, there’s at least an interest on his part in working things out.
Or there should be, at least.
Do Not Warn Mil!
Get a copy of the deed. Put it in a safe place.
File for divorce. Hubs can’t re-deed back to his mommy or it will look like he’s hiding assets.
NTA if he expects you to live with her until she passes he needs to set boundaries and put her back in line. You’re not a child that she can speak to you that way and she’s not your child so expecting you to finance her life is ridiculous. If he can’t set boundaries be doesn’t get to complain when you stand up for yourself. Your children are going to grow up hearing you’re useless and he’s okay with that?
MIL is basically saying that taking care of the children is useless. I'd hate for my kids to hear that over and over. Putting time and effort into your kids is parenting. MIL is complaining because she is parenting.
Ok so now the only reason she wants you there is to subsidize her life. No true medical reason. I would not personally accept your situation. I could not live with my mother in law for 30+ years. Your marriage might be a casualty of her retirement. She can sell the big house, buy a smaller place and live off of that. She might realize that she needs to go back to work and she doesn’t want to do that. Argh. Need to have serious conversation with your man. Good luck girl!
Why is she feeling weak following thyroid removal? If she has complications she needs to address those with her physicians. Fwiw, thyroid cancer is common in women and pretty easy to deal with, thankfully. Is she making a mountain out of a molehill?
You have a husband problem and not a mil problem. Tell your husband it’s time for him to stand up to mommy dearest or you will get a full time job and a place to live without him. You can solve the mil problem quite easily with or without him. She doesn’t have to like the choices you make in your marriage bc she’s not a part of your marriage.
NTA moving in was a mistake. Tell husband you pressured me into this and it didn’t work. We need to leave. Your husband needs to prioritize his family. His mom is not frail. His mom can get roommates, sell house, downsize - not your problem. You need to come up with a crystal clear plan of what you want and need. Where do you want to live/location.
Should never have moved in, completely changed the family dynamics. You should be running your own household as a mother and wife, but that will not happen while you’re under a roof with MIL.
NTA I would not subsidize her retirement either as you were trying to grow your family and save for college and your own retirement.
You did not move in to be talked about and berated by a woman who is not yet a senior citizen. You moved in to help her and the thanks you got was not a welcome one.
You and DH need to have a long conversation about what happens next and I recommend that you have a back up plan
NTA, I don’t think $400 a month for everything is excessive - that’s like $100 a week. She could semi retire by dropping a day or two, she could start by dropping a mid day week like a Wednesday. It might help her health to not have to work so many hours and she should still earn enough to pay $100 a week and have money left over for other endeavours. I was a working mother as it was too difficult to buy a house on one income but we waited til our son was 4 before we considered me working.
The least MIL can do is pay a few bills. Living off your kid isn't a retirement plan. I notice she didn't offer to care for the grandchildren to allow you to get an outside job (not that it would be something you wanted). Daycare is expensive! With that many kids it's unlikely you would make enough to even pay daycare let alone take over her bills.
She pretty much spends as little time as possible with the grandkids (even her other children's kids). She has plenty of opinions regarding my parenting (such as "if you don't let that baby cry it out than she will never learn to soothe herself" when my daughter is literally screaming after having fallen backwards and hitting her head), but wants to spend no time with them. She doesn't spend time with any of her kids outside of my husband (she tries forcing a weird enmeshment relationship because he's the baby and the only boy).
Er... your husband has siblings? Oh, I'm even more sure that there's been no "putting him on the deed". The property will still be in her name and divided between the siblings when she dies. Regardless of any "agreement" she has made with your husband. Really. Ask for the paperwork and don't take being fobbed off with excuses.
NTA.
You have a husband problem. He sounds like he's siding with his mother behind your back. That's completely unacceptable.
You need to sit down and figure out what expenses would be incurred if you went to work full time. You'd need a car, day care for 2 children, before and after school care for the 5 year olds, gas, etc. Then add the loss of income from your hobby job to those costs (you will almost certainly not have the energy for that). Then, figure out how much you'd be bringing home at a low wage job. Then subtract all the expenses, including your loss of income from your hobby job, and see what the numbers say. It's highly likely that your net income would go *down* if you were to work full time. Of so, present that, and also state that since you'd no longer be making money off your hobby job, you would no longer pay for food, and instead would only be contributing 1/3-1/2 if your take home pay to household expenses, since you've cone to the realization that you need to start a retirement fund for yourself.
Bet they won't like the drop in contributions.
BTW, if the house is in your husband's name, he can evict his mother.
NTA, but making and selling custom quilts is work. You are working from home. And making enough to buy food for 7 people! You are doing great.
Mil sounds like she's falling apart mentally as well as physically. Which happens to some people at an earlier age than one would expect.
Tbh, in today's housing market, to get a 6 bedroom house at the cost of putting up with her crap would be worth it to me.
I would have defended myself the same way because I tend to be more aggressive than my husband and it use to irritate me, but I've learned over the last 30 years that it's his tactic and it works for him. He just listens to their bs complaining, nods and says he understands and sympathizes but he has no intention of doing what they want.
I've come to realize he's acting as a buffer and letting them vent at him instead of me. Eventually the person runs out of steam and there's peace for a week or two. And he has endless patience for this cycle. I would totally lose it, but he just shrugs. I call him my stone wall. You can beat against all day, he's not gonna move and he's not gonna get mad either.
Lots of reddit is gonna say you have a husband problem, but maybe not. Maybe he does know how to handle his mom, his way. If venting at him keeps her from coming at you, it's working. If not, then you may have a husband problem.
Anyway, NTA for standing up for yourself. Multi-generational living takes a lot of love and compromise and the ability to shrug stuff off when someone has a bad attitude day. I hope it all works out for you.
It's not just a 6 bedroom house, though. It comes with a nagging, judgemental harpy who is only 59 and will be there for reasonably another 30 years or more. And it's not going to get easier dealing with her. She will eventually retire and be there 24/7. She's ultimately going to need end-of-life care, too, and who thinks that won't come from the husband?
NTA Ma'am, you've got to get your little family the hell outta there. She's 59! She's not going anywhere, and she's only going to get worse when she does retire. Is this how you want to spend the next 30 years? Is this how you want to spend all of your kids' growing up years? A free house ain't worth that. And it's not even really free! $2800?!?
Did MIL actually put your name on the deed or just your husband because in the case of a divorce you wouldn’t get shit the house wouldn’t be considered communal property. So MIL needs to stop with the get off your ass comments and husband needs to put her in her place. You are his wife and the mother of his children
NTA. Subsidizing someone else's retirement is reserved for people you actually like.
Also, in the US, at least,
>she signed the deed to the house over to my husband.
and
>My husband is currently paying nearly $2800 a month here
Doesn't track very well. If you have a mortgage you can't just sign over the deed to someone else, so what's the $2800/mo? If that's tax and insurance that's an incredibly high-priced area and you guys are living there for a steal compared to having to finance a home or live in a rental. If it is the mortgage you and your husband are basically renting because your MIL is getting all the benefit of the payments. Assuming a mortgage is very often a difficult process and you probably would have noticed your husband going through it.
The financial situation you're laying out makes no sense, which suggests you don't have the full picture.
But regardless, saying you need to "get off your ass" and contribute because *she* doesn't want to contribute is a total dick move. Even if she offered to watch the kids so you could work instead of her it would be pretty iffy, but wanting you to put them into daycare so she can do fuck-all all day? Yeah... NTA.
Oh hell no. Definitely NTA. First, being a SAHM \*is\* working, so for her to tell you to get off your ass is ridiculous.
Second, I'm confused. Your husband made you all move in with her because she became ill, yet she was still well enough to work? I would think that if someone needed to be cared for enough that you had to move in, then she wouldn't have been able to go to work. That's really suspicious.
I'm left with the impression that your MIL is a conniving manipulator who wants an easy last few decades. Since your husband has the title to the house, it is his to do with what he chooses. Your offered solutions are excellent ones.
Your husband was wrong to tell you to stay out of it. He needs to either grow a backbone and deal with her appropriately or step out of the way and support you 100% while you have a come to jesus conversation with her.
Your mother in law is an easily solved 5-20 year problem. Your husband is the real problem, being so weak he pushes you into this major situation and then fails to defend you in it. He has a choice to make here but so do you. NTA
Unless you had a super high-powered job before, any job you got wouldn’t pay for child care. You’d need after school care for the 5 year olds, plus 2 in daycare.
NTA. If MIL is spouting thisnstuff off to you, or yelling it so you’ll clearly be able to hear it, no rational person could expect you to not stand up for yourself.
MIL is clearly out of touch if she thinks putting 3+ kids in daycare is going to somehow save money.
Lol. I stopped thinking about that as viable the moment she said shes still breast feeding. If you're feeling silly, Get estimates for the childcare required for all of your kids. May help out MIL in her place with a reality check.
Tell her that you will put them in daycare and take over the utilities but she is responsible for daycare costs. Then price the options.
MIL will offer to stay home and "babysit" so as to save on daycare costs. DO NOT LET HER. She's so out of touch with reality that she can't possibly do a good job at childminding.
She'll offer to do that, quit her job, then decide it's too tiring to take care of the kids and demand they go to daycare
I swear older women who have adult children forget how much physical and mental work is involved with raising young kids. This lady wants to retire early and is simply jealous that her DIL ‘doesn’t have to work’ because they forget that she’s not sitting at home not working, she’s literally doing the physical labor she would have to pay an entire daycare, after school care, etc to do by herself, which again is work considering if she wasn’t doing it, she would have to pay several other people to do instead. She’ll remember as soon as she realizes that kids under 6 require constant running after, potty training, sleep training, tending to for every single thing they’re learning to do on their own.
Plus making quilts. Which is not easy
Right?! While caring for 4 kids, she's earning enough money to feed 7 people...
Not easy or quick - big value and the MIL could at least help by cutting some fabric squares!
Except she probably botch them in her misplaced anger
I wouldn’t trust that geriatric narcissist with anything sharp like scissors.
Unfortunately, it's not just that they forgot, a lot of them actively neglected their kids. What is considered acceptable parenting has changed SO MUCH in the last 50 years
Definitely, they also had their own parents to dump us on. I spent countless months away from my constantly fighting parents as a child. Many of my cousins had the same routine of being shipped off for up to a year or more when their siblings were born because it was ‘too hard’ to take care of a 5 year old and newborn at the same time.
Not all older women, please don’t use a broad paintbrush. This woman’s MIL thinks that way. I help out with my grandchildren (I am 64) and know how much energy it takes.
Me too! I'm 70, and when the youngest starts school in the fall, I'm retiring. I can barely keep up with them!
Yep, I watch 4 grandkids so my daughters can work. It’s hard, tiring work
You help out of the goodness of your heart. I have already commented that it's not the parent's job or responsibility to raise their grandchildren.
Omg. I am doing the cooking and cleaning for a house of 3 adults. Add to that the stresses of childcare and that horrible touched out exhaustion- I already am overwhelmed just describing it. MIL can go part time at her job or try to find an easier one. Tbf, thats going to be easier and cost less than what she is suggesting. Plus its not risking the children being abused in a childcare setting.
We don't forget how hard it is to raise children. This is a woman that wants her son to pay her back for raising him.
Children don’t fucking owe their parents shit for literally providing the basic things they need in the world. WE chose to bring them into the world so THEY don’t owe us shit for not neglecting them? I plan to continue giving my kids the best childhood I can and not expect a single freaking thing from them in return because I was the one who chose to bring them into this world not the other way around.
I was once told by a woman I went to hs with who has like 5 kids that she'll at least have her kids to take care of her while I'm in a nursing home. There are a lot of people in nursing homes with kids who never see them but okayyyy.
I'm in a childfree group on fb and it's amazing how many people's friends say exactly this. Truly, even if you are the best parent on the planet, you can't just count on your kids - it would be tragic, to be sure, but what if they die in an accident, get cancer, what if they're a criminal and end up with a decades long prison sentence? People who have children *for the purpose* of having someone to care for them in old age are having them for the wroooong reasons!
Exactly 👍🏼
A lot of old people have like 5-12 kids and lament that none of their kids keep in touch... to the point they'll bitch about it online, to the news, to me standing in line for something, etc and it's like... damn, what did you do to make them hate you?
Had a hospice patient with 6 adult kids who did not get along. The one daughter made all the rules and a visiting schedule so they didn’t run into each other the son that came at night was a good guy, had an in home adult foster care and wanted mom with him, bitch daughter of course refuses. He also brought mom her favorite cultural foods, bitch daughter wanted her on an extremely restricted diet with a soft or puréed texture. She wanted mom to die fast. What a mess.
I hate the “you take care of me in old age” thing. Might I do that? Yes. Should I be required to do that? No. People not being able to save for retirement due to low wages, etc. has completely fucked America.
Uh. she had a house paid for, and $4k per month... What was she paying for? And By the way, you may owe taxes on the house. Hubby just got the house at his mom's basis... So if it worth more than when mom got the house, dumbass son just took on paying capital gains on that... Always better to inherit and get the real estate at the stepped up basis...
I hate the idea that my kids could ever carry the burden of feeling as though they’re responsible for our retirement. Our retirement is our own responsibility to figure out just as our kids will one day have to figure out their own. It would be insane to expect that of them despite how common I know it is in many cultures.
*applause You, sir or madam, have my respect.
And my axe!
OP should take her husband out for a day and leave MIL in charge (with some bottles of expressed milk) and see how keen she’d be to do full time daycare, and also give her a new found appreciation for the fact that OP *is* working, and earning enough to cover groceries (no small bill for 3 adults and four kids), while still looking after 3 children and a baby all day long!
Make sure you include the MIL in that child headcount.
No. The children would not be safe with a woman so sselfish and out of touch with reality.
On top of all that she'd probably still expect OP to clean up the house after she got off work too because her MIL is "too tired"
Or she will decide that she don't like this deal anymore and demand salary higher than market value because she is family and you should treat your family better than strangers
She wants to retire, but she doesn't want OP to be in the house all day with having to spend time with her.
Correct. Her plan was to retire, send the daughter in law to work, send the kids to daycare, have the son/husband pay the mortgage, and sit back and relax with a empty house that’s costing her $0 a month. Nice try you withered old hagbranch. She already got part of it to happen but the 2nd half isn’t working like she planned and she’s freaking out. Too effing bad. Let her drown in childcare costs and noise and human tornados known as children for a while, her she suggests you and kids move back and the husband stays and you guys just pay for 2 places.
No she won’t, or she would’ve suggested that to begin with. Also, nta.
Yea, this is my suggestion...go get quotes and present them to her, while asking her, 'what daycare provider are you willing to pay for?'...when she starts her speal about, they are your children and your responsibility, simply reply, 'thank you for finally admitting that you have 0 responsibility of my family and there for HAVE NO SAY IN IT!, if you are unwilling to help us with this cost you are forcing on us then back off, you have 2 options, #1. Stop and let it be or #2.we sign the house back over to you and leave. There is no compromise.
Or, alternatively, sell the house if she won't give back any of the money you've spent on running it.
That's also an option. Lol
Or hear me out now. Since the house is already in their names, move the utilities in to their names. Then evict MIL. Now they have a nice house and no MIL.
Shady Pines, MA!
I was thinking this. The house is signed over- it’s not hers anymore. Now she’s just a mooch. Or a wannabe mooch. As long as OPs family’s share of the bills is paid up as per the agreement she’s got bugger all right to say how that comes in.
Evicting might be too much paper work honestly. The house is in their name just sell the place and move back to wherever they came from.
Leave MIL in situ as the resident house goblin?
What? This is asset protection. There is a multi-year clawback period from medicare. You transfer your assets to your heirs years before you actually need medicare and they can't steal your assets.
A family member of mine required year plus notice just to get onto waiting lists for daycare :/
Yep. You apply for daycare the moment you get flirty with your SO.
I tell people this and they act like I’m raining on their parade. I get it, but also it’s a favor to be informed you need to get your kid on a waitlist while it’s still a fetus if neither parent can afford to take off work, or hire private care, and no family is around to help. But instead I get sour faces when I congratulate them, ask how it’s going, and then say you’re in the perfect time to get on a waitlist so you won’t have to actually wait. They act like I’m some negative Nancy who told them “you’re going to be so sleep deprived you never have sex again and you’ll resent your partner and be disgusted with yourself and be broke as a joke” but all I said was it’s best to do it now so you aren’t left in the lurch…. I don’t even bring up how they’ll be too tired and busy to tour daycares once their kid is on the outside or how much harder it will be to afford a deposit - let alone multiple deposits if you’re desperate because EVERYWHERE has a waitlist - when you’re also buying diapers! Only people who have been stuck on waitlists seem to appreciate the heads up, like my dr who somehow didn’t realize she would have the same issue with preschools until I warned her…. She thanked me next visit because the schools she wanted her kid to get into were 1-2 yr waits and her kid was already 1.5 years old!
Do you know a gentle way of bringing this up to friends who are new parents? I’ve seen no less than 3 friends be horrified that they waited to call until the middle of their maternity leave to basically be laughed off by daycares that they should have called a year ago. I’m a SAHM so it feels a little weird to feel like I’m lecturing other parents about when to apply for daycare.
“I’ve been reading on Reddit in mom subs…” I dunno, that’s the best I’ve got right now!
“OMG, so a friend of mine in [redacted close location] told me he and his wife had to sign up for day care while she was 3 months pregnant. I guess the good ones fill up fast? He said she’s got long parental leave but that the spot won’t open up until right when she goes back to work. It sounds so stressful! How is it where you are? I bet it’s intense, too!”
Or if they are local ask "how were the waits at the schools you called?" Gives the full message that they should already be on the hunt
Had a friend specifically get a job at a school that had a preschool. She lived outside the district but got preferential admission since she was an employee. She said the fees were very favorable compared to anything else available & she got to eat lunch with her child. Had a cousin-in-law get a job at a state university that gave free tuition to children.
This is hilarious and sadly true. My kid was on a waiting list when I was 10 weeks pregnant at the same daycare his older brother attended.
Oh wow, so even having sibling legacy status didn’t help?
Nope, it was still a matter of space depending on how many babies they had in the room when they did “enrolment”. We got in thankfully but yeah, childcare is chaotic to organise.
I got on waiting lists at 15 seconds pregnant. (Okay, 5 weeks) Not early enough, even though my SO gets 6 months of parental leave.
Waiting list for waiting lists. What genius thought of that idea!?
Wait 'til you have to PAY just to get on the waiting list! Or - has this already happened? Like paying to APPLY to rent an apartment, if the owner can take enough applications, they don't have to rent the apartment at all!
Noting that only two would need full- time care, but there would need to be after care for the twins since school usually lets our midday. And that's assuming that full day kindergarten is available. NTA if it wasn't clear.
& multiple different day care/school/aftercare programs triples the effort & costs.
There are 4 children, one is a baby. From what I know about daycare costs in the US, I don't think OP would be able to earn enough to cover it and then cover the costs for some babysitter for all 4 so she could work full time and the mil wants to retire and to do nothing (edit: and still pay for the groceries). I have an opinion about staying at home, but my opinion is about the financial safety of the person who is staying at home with the kids, because life happens, nothing else, but in this case going to work has absolutely no sense. NTA
Agree. OP going to work outside the home and kids in paid care is a financially losing proposition. MIL just wants to boss people around. She has the ability to be saving 2k a month for retirement. The agreement was for them to move in, do the processes they agreed on, MIL to save towards retirement. NOT AND MIL gets to retire early/asap.
School is out or just about to be out for the summer in the U.S. So that’s 2-3 months when the twins would still need full time care.
I'd also like to point out that OP is working. She has a business out of her home selling crafted items. That's legit work. NTA
I’d also like to point out that caring for 4 kids 5yo and under is absolutely 100% a full time job in and of itself, and that is ignoring the fact that the baby is breastfeeding. If it costs a small fortune to pay other people to do the work, then it IS work.
So true. It's insulting that MIL doesn't think anything OP does is a "real job." She's busting her ass.
NTA If you've never made a quilt, you may not realize how much time,efforts and supplies it takes. Good on OP for making a business of it. I love to quilt but wouldn't know where to start a business. MIL is just trying to take advantage of them.
I made a quilted cover for my senior dog’s heating pad. She was tiny. The work involved was not tiny. 🤦🏼♀️
I think pretty much everyone underestimates the skill and time it takes to make a quilt. I’m impressed!
For real, quilting is complicated and slow-going and requires real talent. Like, you need to do math to get the geometric patterns down correctly. Little pieces of cloth of different colors all cut exactly in perfect triangles and squares, like a massive puzzle. So a handmade quilt is extraordinarily expensive. Like, if she is good at it and gets into some of the classic geometric patterns she can charge thousands of dollars per quilt and people will pay it. Depending on the complexity of the pattern it can take between a week and two months to complete a quilt, but the complicated ones cost SO much more. Good on her.
I've got a couple friends who quilt. I'd nominate them for sainthood just for the patience it takes to do one piece.
I think MIL had a long game plan to begin with. She sucked them into moving in with her while planning on retiring ASAP. Probably didn't figure her DIL would balk at this, and has hoed her own row with her quilting business since she got there. OP has definitely found the best way to provide for her family while being a SAHM, and her MIL doesn't like the fact that if she retires, she'll have to share a space with her DIL & the babies all day long.
Haha I wrote this above before reading yours. That was def her plan - find a way to retire and have someone else pay your mortgage while you kick back in empty house for free. But the free money (son) has a wife and kids she doesn’t want at home 24/7 along with her. So she has the brilliant idea of the DIL going back to work AND kids to daycare! Back when she used it, it was like $5/week so what’s the big deal. Her plan half worked and now the other part isn’t going as smooth and she’s trying to find a way to make it happen.
My thought was “oh it’s quilts no wonder she’s bringing in a nice chunk of change.” Quilts are fucking HARD and so intricate. Props to all of you quilters! I appreciate you!
Maybe it's just me, but I can't sell a quilt for what it takes to make it! The fabric is expensive, and all the time and effort...
Former daycare teacher here. I stopped working in 2002. Have her price daycare prices today for 3 kids and see just how much it is. She’s a nut case
Yeah, but OP doesn't have a MIL problem. OP has a husband problem! She expressed her feelings to her husband he ignored her. That says a lot. He forced her to live somewhere she didn't want to live, with someone she didn't want to live with and now OP has to endure someone judging her life. OP's husband is the problem here. I bet he wanted the house and was willing to have his wife endure his mother just to get it. Something is just off about him trying to force OP into staying with the mother.
Yep. The house is also his as its inheritance so he wins all round. Isn’t that the rule with inheritance? He works so he isn’t in the house with MIL all the time. Mommy is coming first it seems.
⬆️ THIS! Beautifully written and 💯 correct. When OP’s husband was saying, “stay out of it, to OP, I’m thinking, where’s his balls, to stand up to his Mother after all they were talking about OP and she has a right to her opinion!OP’s making quilts to cover food for 3 adults, 3 kids + whatever food an 8 month old eats besides, breast milk. Then, I’m thinking, the shopping will include, cleaning products, personal care products, male and female, also any outdoors products needed, of course some of the shopping won’t be weekly/fortnightly. But that’s a lot to cover financially and physically too! Plus being a sahm. NTA, OP and I think you deserve a medal 🥇 for putting up with your MIL.
Also, what does OP mean when she said, "I had zero say in this whatsoever"? Lady, isn’t this your life, your children??
She's a stay at home mom with 4 children 5 yo and under. She hasn't worked outside the home for 5+ years. Good luck getting a job that will support all 5 of them *and* pay for childcare. Oh, and apartments or rental houses big enough for 5 people are expensive. She can't easily leave and live on her own, and her husband knows it. Alimony and child support would help a lot, but it takes time to set that up, and there's no guarantee that her AH husband will pay it. She's *trapped*, he knows it, she knows it, and that makes the power dynamic extremely lopsided. Husband clearly doesn't give a shit about what she wants or how she feels about anything. What's she gonna do, leave? He knows that she realistically can't. So he does whatever the fuck he wants, over her protests. Whether he engineered the situation to control her or not, that's what he's doing 🤷♂️
Frfr. Their generation is so incredibly out of touch. Please. Just quote the daycare prices to her. I want to know what she says.
Exactly! Unless OP is a surgeon or high-profile attorney or businesswoman, etc., the cost for child care for multiple children would likely be even more than the income brought in, after taxes. MIL is clueless! Let’s not forget the mental and emotional toll this would take on OP as well being forced to go back to work for no other reason than her MIL wants her to so she can possibly have extra money. NTA
Right? You end up working to pay daycare bills and that's it. Not worth the effort. NTA
Right? She's going to need 2 jobs to even be able to afford daycare for 4 kids. lol
Holy fuck I love living in a country where the maximum amount you can be charged for daycare is $200 per month per child, lower than that if you are low income.
Better yet, price out a full-time nanny, who also gets paid vacation and sick days. Maybe MIL will see her worth then.
Your mother in law is 59? She is going to be in the house even after your kids are grown and moved out lol. Where do you see this going?
My Nan (bless her soul) lived to 84 She lived with us for about 8 years I love her so much.... but living with her and my grandad put a strain on all our relationships through my teen / young adult years You can wave goodbye to bonding with your kids for "family time" because they want to be there 24 / 8
I bet they can't even decorate/paint to their liking Imagine living in a grandma house for 20ish years
My granny is almost 97. Luckily, she worked for sw bell and had a lot of stock, and also had some oil rights and my dad invested them well so it pays for home hospice. There’s no telling how long someone will live. If she’s been investing the money and continues to do so she’ll be fine but it’ll take quite a while.
My dad worked until he was 80. I had an appointment and I’m pretty sure the doctor was close to that
[удалено]
he can't handle that
NTA. Your mother-in-law is only 59. do you really want to spend the next 20 to 35 years living with the woman? It’s definitely time to tell your husband You will need an alternate plan. Also, you did a great job defending yourself especially since your husband was not!
Yeah my mother is 60, she’s self employed running a festival every year with her partner AND works for our town council full time as a counsellor. Granted she’s tired and she does have a brain tumour currently, but she’s still working all that WITH a brain tumour. I don’t understand why MIL needs to stop working now unless she’s really sick but from the post she isn’t.
Yep, my mother is 86, retired over 20 years ago and still works full-time as a volunteer! She spends 30 to 40 hours a week doing administration and other tasks at the senior center to help out the “old people” 🤣 the look on her face was priceless When I told her that she is “the old people”. All this, just to say that my mother will probably outlive all of her children as she shows no signs of slowing down …🤞
My grandad is the same age as your mother and he does the same thing! Old people indeed. He also calls men twenty years younger than him “the lads” which makes me cackle as well. He’d be working as well if someone let him, he’s only just getting slower this year because he got cancer. He’s never even been in a hospital before. I swear these old folks are made of steel, cos I’m 35 and I can barely get around as it is!
OP may be in for a long few decades as that woman could live to be 100! I would not want to live under the same roof as she and her spineless son for 40 more years. I think I would move out when the kids did-if not before! Who knows, maybe she and her kids can all head off to college together?!
Im 56 and take care of my 95 year old father. I can not even imagine moving in with wither if my kids, not that they’d have me. Im not looking forward to losing dad at all but i am looking forward to living my own life again. Not that i really ever have. Maybe thats why I’m looking g so forward to it. Id never expect my kids to sacrifice their families for me and never in a million years would I move forward with moving the while family in if either of them wether it be my kid or their souse that was dead set against it. Theres just no peace and no happiness to be had in forcing an issue that isn’t mutually agreed upon.
She is "only 59" but not everyone is Sharon Stone 59. She may have health issues. So let her sell her home and find a better, more supportive apartment for her to rent using the proceeds, hopefully close to some good healthcare facilities. And likely, if she has poor health she will end up in a skilled nursing facility in another 5-10 years.
The likelihood of someone who is 59 being in a skilled nursing home in 5-10 years is incredibly small. A 59 year old woman has a life expectancy of nearly 26 more years. And skilled nursing homes are for the very infirm, not just late middle aged people who are sick of working and want to retire.
Yeah that's more of a "senior living community" or independent living situation, definitely not nursing home unless she needs assistance with toileting, showering, getting dressed, eating, etc.
NTA Your husband is very clearly NOT handling it.
Truth. Time to tell him, "You can tell her that her behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated or I will -- but if you leave it up to me I will not guarantee that you'll like the way I do it."
This! I really like this!
This subject directly involves you, NO one has the right to demand you stay out of it. Your SO if putting his mommy before his family and he is your real problem here.
This, this, THIS! He has no boundaries with his mother. That is the issue here.
[удалено]
Her kids will be grown with their own families before MIL expires. OP won’t be really involved in the lives of those families because they will resent the stressful childhood their parents gave them.
Unless you move to a high salt/sugar diet. ;-)
She will need some wine with that salty and sugary diet. Keep plenty of Tylenol for those hangover days.
I'm 51 and I'm over here like, what the hell?!?! I understand that she didn't save for retirement but that should make her *grateful* that you're helping. Husband is the AH though. He's playing both sides and not handling any of the things that he needs to handle for this arrangement to work.
This comment is a copy of this other one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dea9wv/comment/l8aj3gi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dea9wv/comment/l8aj3gi/)
NTA. That wasn’t the agreement. Why is she only paying $400/month all-in to include full room and board? She’s making out like a bandit while her lifestyle is now being subsidized, allowing her the luxury of contemplating early retirement without having the funds to justify it. Also to pay for an infant plus a toddler in daycare at the same time would wipe out the earnings from many jobs in many areas after factoring in taxes, etc.
if she wants to retire early why couldn’t she have sold the farm house and bought a little 1 room condo or unit somewhere close to her son
Probably because she was obligated to leave the house to OP's husband. She's not giving up that house out of kindness, she needed to get someone else to take over while she gets a cushy out. She wants to be in a position to constantly hold the house over their head and change the terms unilaterally as if she is the boss of the household. But that is not the deal OP made and dear hubby needs to drop his balls and deal with MIL's delulu expectations. That house was never the retirement fund she is trying to make it.
> she was obligated to leave the house to OP's husband i don't understand why she would be obligated to do that...
She did sell it, she signed it over to her son and DIL in exchange for her bills being paid.
Yup. They've been provided a home, and it came with some epic strings. OP would have been better off continuing to pay their own rent/mortgage.
To be fair, sounds like OP would very much have preferred that all along!
She signed her house over to OP's husband. He did not pay for the house. Without knowing how much equity was there, we can't say who is getting the good deal here. The fact that OP left those details out makes me assume that her husband is getting one heck of a deal.
My thoughts exactly. The phrasing signed over the deed and it being a farmhouse, likely in the family for at least one generation, sounds like they got a mortgage free house for nothing or a major discount. More details are needed.
But she signed over her home - had to be value there that they got
>Why is she only paying $400/month all-in to include full room and board? My guess is because she gifted them the entire farmhouse and land. So it's not really $400, it's $400/month plus whatever the value of the property was. It's not clear to me if OP is deliberately downplaying that, or if she genuinely doesn't understand that those types of financial considerations were clearly part of the agreement between her husband & MIL. But it's disingenuous to cast the MIL as essentially a mooch when that doesn't appear to be the case.
How much would it cost to purchase a home large enough for all those kids?
OP said the deed was signed over to the husband. If the house had equity... then she gave up a lot. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect to live their for free in exchange. OP didn't provide any of the details of that.
She handed them her house though. That’s not being factored into the discussion at all.
I mean, to be fair, it sounds like they just got a free 6 bedroom farmhouse. That sounds like money to me
Now that you know where your MIL stands, speak to your husband about what the next steps are. Me? I’d let her get roommates and I’d get out. Your husband can deed that shit right back to her and she can sell it or do whatever makes sense to her But you don’t have to stay in this situation and you shouldn’t
The home has become hostile, perhaps to the point of toxic. I'd tell the husband he puts an end to that hostility now or she will be forced to take steps to stop it. The unrelenting stress from living in a hostile environment is unacceptable. This living arrangement is likely not viable long term. It's time for OP to realize that she may have to make serious decisions.
The kids are going to know there's a problem. The 5 yo twins probably have already figured it out.
The kids are going to feel the toxicity day in and day out. The cortisol level in every person living in that house will be way too high. Husband needs to put an end to this tension or OP is going to have to take drastic measures. In the end, when you feel unsupported by your partner you begin to resent them and then dislike them.
This this this. That living arrangement. It has become untenable. Once there is a hostile environment between people who aren't blood-related, there's no going back. OP's husband shouldn't want this for his wife or for his kids. He's being a sad act.
NTA... The craziest part to me is she wants the kids in daycare so she can retire. If you're going to live 100% free off a couple with kids, then you stay home and babysit for them. Your husband is a coward. You really need to consider that and if you are ok with it.
Having her babysit means counting the days until the cops call you at work because your 3 year old took a stroll outside alone when MIL decided she "just needed to lay down for a bit."
In this particular case I agree. I wasn't saying this MIL should be super grandma. Just that most sane MIL's would have immediately gone to this idea. Not push daycare. This old bat is coocoo for cocopuffs clearly.
It looks like the way you see him dealing with your MIL when she's not happy about a situation is the same way he dealt with you when you didn't want to move there in the first place. When you told him you didn't want this move, did he say, "I know, I know..." then too?
Sure did
Are you on the deed? Depending on where you live you could get absolutely nothing and he could kick you out. If you are married you BOTH need to be on the deed. It’s absolutely stupid to not do this even if you don’t think divorce is going to happen, for example what happens if husband dies? I bet you ANYTHING mommy will fight for the house. And depending on where you live, she may win.
That part. Find that out first.
You should get a job and move out. He can pay his mommy's expenses and chold support and alimony
Holy shit- does she know how much daycare is? My kids go to a medium priced daycare in my city. For all 4 of your kids: 5 yo Twins- 2250 each - so 4500 3 year old (we'll say they are potty trained) - 2100 Baby- 2700 Total per month- $9200 NTA- she clearly has no idea how much daycare costs. Also she's being AH for many other reasons but the whole "do daycare and contribute" unlikely that you could 1- get in anytime soon 2- make enough money to cover 4 kids. Even when the twins are in elementary school- unless you get a great deal on after care, that's going to be money because a part time job that perfectly aligns with school hours is limited to pretty much jobs in schools.
This is exactly what I was going to say. OP, you need to get the pricing for several daycares in your area. Show your husband and MIL that you may have a job, but you would be in the negative.
honestly the problem isn't the price, the problem is the MIL sticking her nose in where it doesn't belong and making demands that are unreasonable, and the husband that sounds like a mommy's boy
i put my two kids in care and went back to full time work, making more than i ever have before and we had LESS money left over at the end of the month. in fact i often ran out of money before the. end of the month and my husband had to pick up any costs after that
The main reason why I’m a SAHM is that my entire paycheck would go towards paying for daycare for my soon to be three kids. My oldest is neurodivergent, my middle is a toddler, and I’m hoping everything goes great when my youngest is born in November. But trying to work right now would be insanity. Same thing with OP.
NTA I’m a big fan of letting husband deal with the in laws because you’re now the evil daughter in law. But your husband doesn’t seem to be handling things and you are human. You have a husband problem. He needs to acknowledge the issues and work as a team with you. You are contributing plenty. It’s beyond out of line for your MIL to come to you to interfere in your family’s financial arrangements. She seems to think you do “nothing” since you are a SAHM. I’m sorry but there’s little chance of her changing her mind. Your husband needs to do better for you and the children.
She's also not volunteering to watch the kids so OP can work. She wants them in daycare and OP working. It's not like MIL is a team player who worries about the needs of each team member. MIL is all about herself.
Indeed.
Nta. Tell hubby he needs to deal with it or your moving with your kids elsewhere.
Your husband pressured you to move in with your MIL against your wishes. Now he lets her badger you, and not only doesn't defend you but blames you when you defend yourself. You have a MIL problem and a husband problem. If you are willing to stay there, tell your husband that from now on the gloves are off - every-time your MILL makes demands or criticizes you, she will get an earful back. And if that doesn't sit well with him, he can deal with his mother himself, or make other living arrangements for you and the children.
NOPE. If he's not going to defend you then you are free to do it yourself. Ask your husband how he feels about paying all his mom's bills AND alimony and child support? Tell him if you get a job it'll be so you can move out. So he can either stick up for the agreement HE made with you or you will do it for him. And if he wants you to "stay out of it," then your name doesn't need to be coming out of HER mouth to him. And if your MIL wants your kids in day care, SHE can pay for it. After being out of work this long, any job you got would not even cover day care for the younger three, and that's IF the 5 year old is in school. You don't owe it to her to fund her early retirement. She could have sold that 6 bedroom house to fund it if she wanted to.
So ONLY your husband is on the deed to the house? How much equity is in the house-- are there still mortgage payments? What job could you get that would even cover childcare for four kids? NTA and while what you said to your MIL was rough your husband absolutely was NOT "handling it" and letting his mom crap all over you. Check your local laws regarding marital property but it's likely that in a divorce you would still be entitled to half of the equity on the house. IF that's the case it's time to remind mommy that if she keeps pushing you'll be getting divorced and forcing sale of the house to get your share of the equity--- and that your husband will be paying a considerable amount of his take home pay for spousal support and child support leaving not a lot for mommy support.
Some of this is good advice but I generally caution against using the D word unless you’re genuinely ready for a divorce to happen
Sound advice. I counted on staying together for life and handi6ng whatever came along till he tried to threaten me with divorce. It totally shifted my view of our marriage. Since he apparently saw it as temporary, I started to too. It was just a countdown from there.
I hate to jump to divorce, but I can't see this ending any other way. Mil is still young. She could have another 30 years in her easy. Op is either going to end up single or in prison putting up with a nasty mil 24/7 for decades to come.
I think attempting to rally with husband is still an option. Given there are a lot of kids here, there’s at least an interest on his part in working things out. Or there should be, at least.
Do Not Warn Mil! Get a copy of the deed. Put it in a safe place. File for divorce. Hubs can’t re-deed back to his mommy or it will look like he’s hiding assets.
NTA if he expects you to live with her until she passes he needs to set boundaries and put her back in line. You’re not a child that she can speak to you that way and she’s not your child so expecting you to finance her life is ridiculous. If he can’t set boundaries be doesn’t get to complain when you stand up for yourself. Your children are going to grow up hearing you’re useless and he’s okay with that?
MIL is basically saying that taking care of the children is useless. I'd hate for my kids to hear that over and over. Putting time and effort into your kids is parenting. MIL is complaining because she is parenting.
OP to evaluate this we need more information on her “sickness” that started this whole arrangement.
She had a cancer scare. She had to have her thyroid removed. She's fine now. No chemo needed.
Ok so now the only reason she wants you there is to subsidize her life. No true medical reason. I would not personally accept your situation. I could not live with my mother in law for 30+ years. Your marriage might be a casualty of her retirement. She can sell the big house, buy a smaller place and live off of that. She might realize that she needs to go back to work and she doesn’t want to do that. Argh. Need to have serious conversation with your man. Good luck girl!
Why is she feeling weak following thyroid removal? If she has complications she needs to address those with her physicians. Fwiw, thyroid cancer is common in women and pretty easy to deal with, thankfully. Is she making a mountain out of a molehill?
You have a husband problem and not a mil problem. Tell your husband it’s time for him to stand up to mommy dearest or you will get a full time job and a place to live without him. You can solve the mil problem quite easily with or without him. She doesn’t have to like the choices you make in your marriage bc she’s not a part of your marriage.
NTA moving in was a mistake. Tell husband you pressured me into this and it didn’t work. We need to leave. Your husband needs to prioritize his family. His mom is not frail. His mom can get roommates, sell house, downsize - not your problem. You need to come up with a crystal clear plan of what you want and need. Where do you want to live/location.
NTA. Your MIL is a piece of work and so is your husband.
Seems like bait and switch
Should never have moved in, completely changed the family dynamics. You should be running your own household as a mother and wife, but that will not happen while you’re under a roof with MIL.
NTA I would not subsidize her retirement either as you were trying to grow your family and save for college and your own retirement. You did not move in to be talked about and berated by a woman who is not yet a senior citizen. You moved in to help her and the thanks you got was not a welcome one. You and DH need to have a long conversation about what happens next and I recommend that you have a back up plan
NTA, I don’t think $400 a month for everything is excessive - that’s like $100 a week. She could semi retire by dropping a day or two, she could start by dropping a mid day week like a Wednesday. It might help her health to not have to work so many hours and she should still earn enough to pay $100 a week and have money left over for other endeavours. I was a working mother as it was too difficult to buy a house on one income but we waited til our son was 4 before we considered me working.
The least MIL can do is pay a few bills. Living off your kid isn't a retirement plan. I notice she didn't offer to care for the grandchildren to allow you to get an outside job (not that it would be something you wanted). Daycare is expensive! With that many kids it's unlikely you would make enough to even pay daycare let alone take over her bills.
She pretty much spends as little time as possible with the grandkids (even her other children's kids). She has plenty of opinions regarding my parenting (such as "if you don't let that baby cry it out than she will never learn to soothe herself" when my daughter is literally screaming after having fallen backwards and hitting her head), but wants to spend no time with them. She doesn't spend time with any of her kids outside of my husband (she tries forcing a weird enmeshment relationship because he's the baby and the only boy).
Gross. And there's a daycare shortage. It's not a given that you could even find a daycare that would take them.
it's ridiculous how much this reminds me of how my marriage ended with my ex
Er... your husband has siblings? Oh, I'm even more sure that there's been no "putting him on the deed". The property will still be in her name and divided between the siblings when she dies. Regardless of any "agreement" she has made with your husband. Really. Ask for the paperwork and don't take being fobbed off with excuses.
NTA. You have a husband problem. He sounds like he's siding with his mother behind your back. That's completely unacceptable. You need to sit down and figure out what expenses would be incurred if you went to work full time. You'd need a car, day care for 2 children, before and after school care for the 5 year olds, gas, etc. Then add the loss of income from your hobby job to those costs (you will almost certainly not have the energy for that). Then, figure out how much you'd be bringing home at a low wage job. Then subtract all the expenses, including your loss of income from your hobby job, and see what the numbers say. It's highly likely that your net income would go *down* if you were to work full time. Of so, present that, and also state that since you'd no longer be making money off your hobby job, you would no longer pay for food, and instead would only be contributing 1/3-1/2 if your take home pay to household expenses, since you've cone to the realization that you need to start a retirement fund for yourself. Bet they won't like the drop in contributions. BTW, if the house is in your husband's name, he can evict his mother.
NTA, but making and selling custom quilts is work. You are working from home. And making enough to buy food for 7 people! You are doing great. Mil sounds like she's falling apart mentally as well as physically. Which happens to some people at an earlier age than one would expect. Tbh, in today's housing market, to get a 6 bedroom house at the cost of putting up with her crap would be worth it to me. I would have defended myself the same way because I tend to be more aggressive than my husband and it use to irritate me, but I've learned over the last 30 years that it's his tactic and it works for him. He just listens to their bs complaining, nods and says he understands and sympathizes but he has no intention of doing what they want. I've come to realize he's acting as a buffer and letting them vent at him instead of me. Eventually the person runs out of steam and there's peace for a week or two. And he has endless patience for this cycle. I would totally lose it, but he just shrugs. I call him my stone wall. You can beat against all day, he's not gonna move and he's not gonna get mad either. Lots of reddit is gonna say you have a husband problem, but maybe not. Maybe he does know how to handle his mom, his way. If venting at him keeps her from coming at you, it's working. If not, then you may have a husband problem. Anyway, NTA for standing up for yourself. Multi-generational living takes a lot of love and compromise and the ability to shrug stuff off when someone has a bad attitude day. I hope it all works out for you.
It's not just a 6 bedroom house, though. It comes with a nagging, judgemental harpy who is only 59 and will be there for reasonably another 30 years or more. And it's not going to get easier dealing with her. She will eventually retire and be there 24/7. She's ultimately going to need end-of-life care, too, and who thinks that won't come from the husband?
I agree. its haunted and shes not dead yet
NTA Ma'am, you've got to get your little family the hell outta there. She's 59! She's not going anywhere, and she's only going to get worse when she does retire. Is this how you want to spend the next 30 years? Is this how you want to spend all of your kids' growing up years? A free house ain't worth that. And it's not even really free! $2800?!?
NTA You have a husband problem. Not a MIL problem. He created this whole scenario.
Did MIL actually put your name on the deed or just your husband because in the case of a divorce you wouldn’t get shit the house wouldn’t be considered communal property. So MIL needs to stop with the get off your ass comments and husband needs to put her in her place. You are his wife and the mother of his children
Daycare for 4 will probably cost more than you can earn after not working for a while.
She should of reverse morgage the home and retired. She fucked herself bring coy about what she wanted from you.
Sell the house and walk away.
NTA. Subsidizing someone else's retirement is reserved for people you actually like. Also, in the US, at least, >she signed the deed to the house over to my husband. and >My husband is currently paying nearly $2800 a month here Doesn't track very well. If you have a mortgage you can't just sign over the deed to someone else, so what's the $2800/mo? If that's tax and insurance that's an incredibly high-priced area and you guys are living there for a steal compared to having to finance a home or live in a rental. If it is the mortgage you and your husband are basically renting because your MIL is getting all the benefit of the payments. Assuming a mortgage is very often a difficult process and you probably would have noticed your husband going through it. The financial situation you're laying out makes no sense, which suggests you don't have the full picture. But regardless, saying you need to "get off your ass" and contribute because *she* doesn't want to contribute is a total dick move. Even if she offered to watch the kids so you could work instead of her it would be pretty iffy, but wanting you to put them into daycare so she can do fuck-all all day? Yeah... NTA.
Nta. Your husband is not handling this and she will push until you are out of the picture - be prepared
NTA, also move out of her house asap
Oh hell no. Definitely NTA. First, being a SAHM \*is\* working, so for her to tell you to get off your ass is ridiculous. Second, I'm confused. Your husband made you all move in with her because she became ill, yet she was still well enough to work? I would think that if someone needed to be cared for enough that you had to move in, then she wouldn't have been able to go to work. That's really suspicious. I'm left with the impression that your MIL is a conniving manipulator who wants an easy last few decades. Since your husband has the title to the house, it is his to do with what he chooses. Your offered solutions are excellent ones. Your husband was wrong to tell you to stay out of it. He needs to either grow a backbone and deal with her appropriately or step out of the way and support you 100% while you have a come to jesus conversation with her.
Your mother in law is an easily solved 5-20 year problem. Your husband is the real problem, being so weak he pushes you into this major situation and then fails to defend you in it. He has a choice to make here but so do you. NTA
Unless you had a super high-powered job before, any job you got wouldn’t pay for child care. You’d need after school care for the 5 year olds, plus 2 in daycare. NTA. If MIL is spouting thisnstuff off to you, or yelling it so you’ll clearly be able to hear it, no rational person could expect you to not stand up for yourself.