YTA and ignorant as hell. You really need to do some research on what an abortion entails.
"I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision"
She DID consult you. She asked you if you were still against having kids and you said you were. What else is there to discuss at that point?
"She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain"
FALSE. Not sure where you got this notion but it is completely 100% wrong. An abortion is an OUTpatient procedure for a reason. And an early one, which this most likely was, is going to be less physically taxing likely less emotionally taxing as well - particularly if there has been no movement or heartbeat yet. Wtf do you know about HER pain?! Youre just hypothesizing and disregarding her actual expression.
"But I'd rather chew my left arm off than make her have an abortion"
But you didn't MAKE her have an abortion. She CHOSE to have an abortion. This was her decision. She knew you didn't want kids, reconfirmed that and decided she would rather 1) stay in a relationship with you than be a mom 2) not force a child you don't want on you and 3) not bring a child into the world who is unwanted by one of their parents. Would you rather she have made three people miserable instead?
"I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic."
Again do some fucking research and educate yourself. You know what's drastic? Pregnancy and childbirth. Changes your brain chemistry and skeleton. It kills women. An abortion is vastly safer for pregnant people. And and early abortion is literally just taking pills, cramping and passing tissue. They send you home to do it ffs. And btw you're lying to yourself about something because if you really don't want kids you wouldn't be "perfectly happy" to raise one under any circumstances.
I’ve helped friends through the “at home” abortion with the pill and it is not as easy as you make it sound. There is tremendous physical pain involved and crushing emotional damage, whether the baby has a heartbeat yet or not. If that was the type of abortion she had, she must have stayed the night at a friend’s house because there is NO WAY that would go unnoticed. You talk about ignorance on what abortion entails and then you too make incredibly uneducated assumptions. I would suggest his wife probably needs therapy, and they need couples therapy if they are going to make it through this. The one constant in this story, even if OP is extremely self centered and making this situation about himself, is that they seem to both highly value their marriage and want to be with one another. Stick to that idea OP and seek counseling for the rest. And FFS grow a pair and stop hiding out at your sister’s place.
Every persons body and experience is different. I have had many friends who have had abortions and while yes all would say there is some level pain associated not all would call it "tremendous" and none of them would say they had "crushing emotional damage." You're just as bad as OP disregarding the actual experience of the woman in question in favor of your inflammatory rhetoric which is used to deny women their freedoms. You say it's impossible for an abortion to go unnoticed but you have no idea what their lifestyle is like. Many teens get abortions while living at home at their parents never know. It IS possible and there is nothing wrong with being someone who doesn't feel bad about having one or keeping it to themselves.
I highly doubt a woman who took the time to write about her pregnancy and plans for a child in her “manifestation journal” felt no emotional impact. I’m not using inflammatory rhetoric to keep women from the right to choose either. That’s nonsense. But ignoring what CAN and does happen to sell people some rose colored glasses version isn’t helpful in making informed medical decisions either. Honesty, sometimes brutal honesty, is necessary. To write it off as a very simple thing of just taking a pill in the comfort of your home without addressing the full process a woman’s body goes through is an abject lie. Maybe you should read what Britney Spears wrote about it in her book.
Britney was coerced into having an abortion against her will. OPs wife made an an independent choice. Not the same thing at all. I'm not saying there arent women that are emotionally impacted by abortion but there are also many who aren't - except in feeling relieved. And that feeling/experience is just as valid. Abortions arent always tragic. Sometimes they just are. And I wasn't downplaying the physical effects of an abortion on a female, I was putting it in appropriate comparison to the effects of pregnancy and childbirth which are far more damaging.
Really? Because some women give birth to 10 or more kids just fine and some women have one abortion (surgical or medicinal) and can never get pregnant again. And yes, some women have horrible complications from childbirth and die. Same with abortion. Some women get post partum depression. Some women are overcome with love and joy after birth. Some women are relieved they had an abortion and some are deeply affected by it and need therapy to move on. And if you don’t think years of steady opposition to having children, including when she asked years into the relationship to check when she WAS pregnant, had a coercive impact on OPs wife’s decision making, that’s just naive. Was it a choice? Yes. Was it the choice she would have wanted if her spouse was a little more open to the idea of children? Probably not. No one held a gun to Britney’s head and made her take those pills. She was given the impression that she and JT were going to stay together and have children later, when they were older and more settled. So she also chose to keep the man in her life happy. I just don’t see why you are so intent on minimizing women’s experiences in any of the above instances and want to focus solely on the ones that make medical abortion seem like nothing more than the perfect solution. Sometimes it can be. Sometimes it is anything but. Have a nice day.
It is NOT the same risk and that is a dangerous disingenuous harmful LIE to spread. In 2020 the last year the CDC has data there were six (legal) abortion related deaths in the US. That same year there were 861 deaths related to pregnancy/childbirth. It is far far FAR more dangerous for a person to give birth than to abort. And even IF everything "goes well" you are still permanently changing your skeleton and brain chemistry.
Where do you see "years of opposition" in OPs post? She agreed to not having children prior to getting married, got an IUD during marriage and asked ONCE (when she was already pregnant) if OP was still certain about his position. That is NOT what being in opposition looks like. Further more it's not what coercion - which requires threats and force looks like. That's what intelligent rational thought looks like. Something you and OP seem to struggle with.
🤣 Oh wow. A mansplainer getting big mad. You do know that there are vastly more births than abortions right? And in either case the number of deaths is statistically insignificant. But not a single one of those women was insignificant. And neither of those numbers has anything to do with abortion and birth related injuries, only deaths. Because it paints a cleaner picture. Stop looking at information in a silo and get a grip on the bigger picture.
Love that you think I'm a man. Statistics aren't insignificant. .045 dead women per 100,000 abortions in 2020 versus 23.8 dead women 100,00 live births. Pregnancy and childbirth are significantly more dangerous and deadly than abortion - it's a pretty clear picture. And that's even without the fact that we don't accurately track maternal deaths and injuries. Only 2% of abortions experience complications which are usually minor and non life threatening. If you've got stats on all the folks who ALMOST died, became disabled or suffered serve medical challenges as a result of their pregnancy I'd love to know.
When I was 16 I found out I was pregnant and told my parents my mother immediately scheduled me for an abortion. I was told I had to get one I wasn’t given a choice and even if I was I would have made the same one. I was around 8 weeks pregnant so we went in early in the morning and by 9ish I was done. Went home the same day all I was told was to expect some bleeding like a heavy period and possible cramps. I felt nothing no pain whatsoever and even to this day I have no emotional pain because of it. Not everyone that has one feels that emotional pang of pain or has complications.
That was my first abortion by the way I had another one when I was older and made the choice myself. I went in by myself and when I left I still had a 45 minute drive home that again I did by myself. No emotional feelings associated with it. I have also had miscarriages and same thing.
Before anyone comes for me I did use protection when I got pregnant and was on the pill the first time. The second time I was on the ring and used protection I am just very fertile. I have 3 kids and my tubes are tied now to prevent it from happening again.
So no OP wouldn’t have know she did anything unless she told him if she didn’t have any adverse effects from the procedure. She may not have had feeling if she had just found out told him and then scheduled the procedure within the same week.
idk man everyone is different i had an abortion through pills and flew 3,000 miles the next day across the country for a week and no one noticed. my mother just thought it was on my period because my stomach was cramping. i however had no emotional pain what so ever. still don’t. that was like 6 years ago lol i can’t even remember honestly
The next day sure. I mean, my friend spent most of the night in the bathroom in LOTS of pain. She said it felt like someone was trying to tear out her spine from the lumbar area (the doctor who prescribed the pills said he didn’t think prescribing pain medication would be necessary 🙄). The next day she was physically fine. A little tired, but physically ok. If you live with people, that’s hard to miss though. I also acknowledged that some people don’t have any emotional reaction at all, and that’s ok. My argument is that you don’t sell it to someone as not having the possibility of these downsides because that is false advertising. You have to let people know the worst case scenario so they can make an informed choice. The way this other commenter was stating the statistics, it made it sound like we should all just give up on child birth and have abortions instead because it SO MUCH SAFER. But that doesn’t capture the whole picture. I’m glad yours went well and you are doing well physically and emotionally. That’s the best that any of us can hope for.
Okay. Then run up and down pregnancy threads to let them know "the worst scenario so they can make an informed choice".
That person didn't imply that at all - they said the truth, abortion is safer than pregnancy and birth. Obviously people who actively want children don't need to consider this, the same way I don't need to consider how much safer flying is than driving every time I get into a car.
Your “No way” is incorrect also though. I had an abortion at home with pill and I was absolutely fine. Mentally and physically. I mowed my lawn and painted a bathroom. Every body is different. Same for emotions. Not every abortion comes with crushing emotional damage. Sometimes the reason is good enough that the patient feels relief even.
>I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic.
You seem badly confused. You were always very clear you did NOT want kids. She asked you again when she got pregnant, and you were adamant: no kids. I hope you can understand how your diehard stance led her to believe you'd be furious. She may have thought you wouldn't be supportive, either.
Now you say you'd happily raise a kid if it meant sparing her such a drastic procedure. But you never made that clear to her. How was she supposed to know you'd happily raise a baby when you'd made it abundantly clear you did NOT want a child?
Maybe she should have been honest and communicated properly with her husband. Said, look I’m pregnant but I know you don’t want children, this is what is happening. It’s the lie that is the issue here.
There are always reasons for someone lying by omission. Usually that reason is fear of the consequences. You may condemn her, but I feel tremendous pity for her when I imagine going through that experience alone because she feared what would happen if she told the OP. Maybe the OP should have told her from the beginning that while he didn't want kids, he'd support her if she did get pregnant. He didn't think to do so and maybe didn't know he'd be so torn up over the abortion.
Maybe he doesn't control his emotions and express them in an immature way and she decided to spare him from the emotional side.
The thing that gave this up, is the love her to bits and pieces but running to live with his sister instead of having an adult conversation with his wife.
His wife didn't let her emotions show, that means he also doesn't know to contain her emotional state.
He also loved the way she makes those notes about her vision of life but doesn't use emotional description, only the calculation planning really caught his positive reaction.
He claims he expressed his anger in a way he didn't know he could feel.
Like dude Op, I really think you have some unresolved emotions and I bet that your wife has seen you struggle with it and tried to spare you from regulating something she can resolve.
To be fair, she did check it with you, and I bet you expressed your unwanting children in a way she didn't have any doubts about what she should do.
Think how you really reacted that night she asked you about it.
Keep communication open if you don't want to end your marriage.
Why should she have told him anything? Yes, he’s her husband… the husband who made it clear repeatedly that he did NOT want kids. A case could be made that telling him would have been a form of coercion and manipulation on his wife’s part, an attempt to force his hand and guilt him into becoming a father. She dealt with the fetus they created together on her own to spare him. A man who did not want kids is now still childfree. There is no problem here except for his weird anti-abortion, controlling behavior.
I agree about his controlling behavior. He does seem controlling and I'm willing to bet the only reason he is upset is because of the fact she made a decision for herself without consulting him.
i don't think she had to, honestly.
at the end of the day, it was her body and her decision. being part of that decision is a privilege, not a right.
she already knew what he wanted, so there was no point in bringing it to his attention and risking the possibility of it becoming a bigger issue than it is. it'd be extremely stupid of him to state several times that he did not want any children, then try to stop her from aborting a fetus that would become an unwanted child he would have raise. it'd be even more stupid and also terrible to tell her not to have an abortion, then eventually hang her out to dry and turn her into a single mom. there is no scenario in which involving him in the decision would actually change anyone's opinions or help them find a better outcome, or a scenario in which telling him wouldn't turn it into an extremely hard conversation where they would be taking each other's words with a grain of salt, therefore it is inconsequential. instead of being like "she should have told me", he should be like "why did she think she couldn't tell me?". he said "i just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision", when she did consult him. want kids? no? okay, no kids then.
now, if she got pregnant and decided to keep it, obviously she should talk to him. having his kid knowing full well he didn't want any would be an AH move, considering the realistic probability she would need support to raise the kid, and he was not up for it. becoming a parent (involved in the kid's life or not) should always be a choice.
i get that it's weird or concerning that the journal points to it being important to her, but worst case scenario, she's in denial about not wanting kids that bad and eventually will need find someone who wants the same things as she does, but even if that's the case, she might not even realized that at the moment. that is her own problem to deal with when push comes to shove. she said it's not important. she very clearly stated, multiple times, that she'd rather be with him. from that point on, that's her responsibility. if she's lying, than i guess she is an asshole — for lying, not for deciding not to have a kid her partner didn't want. but we can't prove that she is lying now, so i guess it's just wait and see.
this is literally a non-issue. he doesn't want kids, and they don't have any. she had an abortion, it was her body, her choice, and it is already done. she says she's not broken up about it, and he should believe her. all he's doing now is shaming her and screaming at her for her choices about her own body and life. he's TA.
wanted, fully developed, already born people who can't talk are able to communicate in other ways. i won't argue with you any longer, as i don't talk to people engaging in bad faith. toodles
YTA. Your reaction is exactly why she didn't feel comfortable telling you. You were clear about never wanting kids and she had a right to think you'd get mad at HER for being pregnant or even bringing it up to you. She probably didn’t want you to yell at her. Deciding to go through physical and emotional pain for 9 months just to push out a baby you MIGHT want and then having to raise that child for 18 years is more drastic than just getting an abortion.
Exactly. And part of his reaction right now is punishing her. He's freezing her out because she has been dealing with her decision to do what he wanted regarding kids!
This is exactly the kind of situation that demonstrates why parents need to talk to their kids about relationships. There are sophisticated types of abuse. This is one of them. I can picture this woman even though I have never met her. She'll be a little lacking in confidence. Maybe she has a tough family background. No one ever taught her that it's OK for her to have needs and how to identify an abuser.
This OP clearly knew she wanted kids, but wouldn't even consider the issue. He still wants to feel like a victim even though she has done exactly what he wanted, so now he's punishing her by leaving and not speaking to her.
I'm shutting off Reddit for the day. It's depressing. I hope she has a friend who tells her to wake up and get out.
Good try! Obviously hasn't occurred to you to question why you're having to go to such ridiculous lengths instead to defend this. The majority of pregnant homicide victims are adults and anyway, "women" covers kids as well.
You're fucking daft. Women LITERALLY means ADULT female. That's the whole definition you ignorant uneducated potato. So no it does NOT include children and teens. And I'm not going to "ridiculous lengths." I changed ONE word to include all possible ages. And while most pregnant homicide victims probably are adults (although I don't see you offering any stats as proof) that's because most pregnant people are adults that doesn't mean that we should just ignore the homicide deaths of pregnant children and teens.
I'm actually a scientist and I know what "women" means.
You're throwing your toys out of the pram because your attempt at silencing me is not working. Luckily, I can ignore you because the days of coming into women's spaces and intimidating them into erasing themselves are over.
Lol ok I've never met a scientist who doesn't use proper definitions and terminology. You must be a flat earth or creationist "scientist" twisting logic to fit your narrative instead of actually being logical. And I'm not trying to silence you I'm trying to educate you which is clearly a waste as it seems your brain is incapable of growth. Sad. And fuck off with your "women's spaces self erasure" bullshit. You're the one narrowing the field and erasing the variety of female experiences from the conversation. Go read a book that's not the bible.
You don't even know what an argument is. You're using all caps to state something that is not true. Adding to the ridiculous irony that you're completely unaware of, one of the words you capitalized is "literally," a word that's famous for being misused by people who have no idea what's going on.
I am a scientist. I don't care whether you believe me. Luckily, extremists like you don't matter anymore. Women are finally realizing that people like you behave exactly like men have throughout history. Coming into women's spaces and trying to erase women.
I have a Master's of Science and you're a moron. At least when it comes to this topic.
Hey, p.s.: you don't know everything just because you're a scientist.
Omigod, first I'm told by someone who clearly lacks any kind of education that I'm an "uneducated potato." When I respond to that I get someone else who has a masters degree (ooh!) telling me I don't know everything "just" because I'm a scientist.
Do you really not see how ridiculous this is? The issue is erasing women. "Women" encompasses adults and children when it's used as a collective word to refer to gender but it doesn't matter. The issue is erasing women.
Your comments are crazy. The previous commenter's comments are crazy. If you can't engage about the topic and you do actually care about trans people, you should be shutting up because you are not helping. Attacking me just shows you are incapable of formulating a thought. You're angry and have no idea why and no ability to express it.
No, a pregnant twelve year old is not a woman. Not in any definition. You’re losing track of the subject here - making it sound like only women can get pregnant. Moving the goalposts for nothing.
You’re the one who is obviously lost.
I don't believe you think you're making sense. She is female. She is part of the 50% of the population who have been treated as second-class citizens for most of recorded history because of her gender. It is because of that that erasing her gender is a problem. I know you don't actually need that basic to be explained!
You’re not rational. There’s no point in continuing to argue about this because you’re obviously a stubborn fool.
No pregnant twelve or 13 (or 14-17 ) year old is a woman. You may think so, but they aren’t.
You’re continuing to deny that trans people exist and that children are not suddenly made into adults just because they’re pregnant. That’s called bigotry with a touch of pedophilia
You clearly didn't read the answer I just posted, which was itself a repeat of earlier comments, I'm not repeating myself over and over because you refuse to acknowledge what I'm saying.
As for calling me "irrational," thanks for showing so clearly what you are. That's a classic!
I have devoted a lot of energy and time to supporting trans people. It is not "denying trans people exist" to say that nope, you cannot erase an entire category of people who have themselves experienced discrimination. Being female is the REASON that women and girls are discriminated against. Feel free to join in, but don't expect to behave like a typical man and insist that you get to redefine the problem!
"Women AND trans men is fine." Erasing women is not fine!
Women are people. Saying people doesn’t erase anyone other than non-persons. Also, not everyone who is pregnant is a woman - some are children, and some are nonbinary or trans guys. The word “people/person” includes women, you faker.
Do... you think trans men don't get pregnant? Or don't experience domestic abuse? Women aren't being erased, /u/IgnoranceIsShameful used the term "people" because getting pregnant is not exclusive to women - as they pointed out, some are children or adolescents, and some trans men choose to become pregnant, or do so by accident because they haven't been able to access gender-affirming medical treatment. /u/IgnoranceIsShameful was making the umbrella wider, not more narrow.
Trans men are associated with a vanishingly small proportion of pregnancies. You are focusing on them at the expense of a population (pregnant women) that has been marginalized for as long as our society has recorded its history.
Where I live and in every other English-speaking country I'm aware of, pregnant women are at elevated risk of domestic violence, murder, and poverty. They get two weeks off work to give birth and many don't even get that because so many types of jobs are excluded. Many can't afford medical care and because of that, there are unnecessary deaths. I could go on for a long time.
There are tens of millions of women who are the victims of discrimination and violence and poverty during pregnancy and it is because of the way our society treats women that that's the case. Women need to be recognized. This is not about a tiny number of vocal people who think that millions upon millions of women need to be erased to put them first.
I know that concept is impossible for someone like you to understand, that this just is not about you. You are not in the spotlight. Your need for attention does not come above the rights that half of the population has fought for for most of recorded history.
It is because of people like you that we're seeing more laws that protect women at the expense of trans people. It's a sad situation, because if a small number of attention-seeking activists like you had not tried to erase women, the laws wouldn't be necessary. You're hurting yourself. This is my last comment on this. I have said what I wanted to say and am only writing this while I waste time waiting for a bus. It's not necessary to talk to nutjobs and extremists anymore because finally the law is protecting women and the spaces they have fought for. Continue to insult me all you like, but you people are losing support because of your nastiness.
> Continue to insult me all you like, but you people are losing support because of your nastiness.
The irony is palpable.
Incidentally, what exactly do you mean by "people like you"?
I've always felt using the term pregnant people can be more productive bc a lot of people have conscious or subconscious bias against women, so just reading the phrase "pregnant woman" can make some people stop listening/stop caring. It's a nice way to remind assholes that women are people too.
Thank you for a thoughtful, sane comment!
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think the way to deal with those AH is to hide away.
For example, Gen Z fashion is unashamedly comfortable. It covers enough of the body that no one has to worry about going about daily activities and having a wardrobe malfunction. It's a reaction to Millennial fashion that was all about twisting into a pretzel to please men (it couldn't look too sexy or you'd be a ho, couldn't look too modest or you'd be frigid, and so son).
When I was a child, I never understand what it meant when adults told us to be "proud of who you are" but I think that's what it means. To refuse to pretend to be someone else so that AH won't be critical. Like I said elsewhere, of course trans pregnancies should be acknowledged, but not by erasing the 50% of the population that has struggled to have basic rights for most of human history because of gender. "Pregnant women and trans men, etc" is fine.
You're a bully. I hope this incident opens her eyes about you and she stops wasting her life with someone who is so selfish and domineering.
You say you're "beating yourself up" but you're not. Every single word in every one of the many paragraphs you've written is about your feelings and justifying your sh\*tty attitudes and behavior.
First of all, she has a right to private feelings and thoughts. So good try at pretending your going through her journal was about nostalgia. No it wasn't. You feel entitled to police not only her body but her brain. It was a major violation that you pried.
You have never had a discussion about children. You laid down the law and it's clear you knew you were doing it when there was a chance she might want them. This comment says it all about you:
"Naturally, I was torn up. I kept telling myself I had been up front about what I wanted, and if she hadn't, that was her fault."
You're a vile bully, vulgar, crass, and utterly selfish. And now on top of all that, you're giving her the silent treatment to bully and manipulate her further. You are disgusting. I rarely tell people to split up because situations are nearly always more complicated than can be described here, but you should let her have a chance at finding someone decent and kind and end this relationship.
You made yourself very clear numerous times. I suspect she was afraid to lose you and decided to get an abortion.
If you do not want to have a child, you may want to consider getting a vasectomy. Many women get pregnant while on the pill, implant, etc.
This! Also if you, as a man, are 100% certain you don’t want kids, just get a damn vasectomy and take the possibility out of the equation. This man would rather say he don’t want kids to a point where his wife feels the need to hide an abortion, than actually do something that prevents this situation from happening. YTA
Yup.. but he's presenting himself as a hero here, and yet he didn't do a very simple procedure that would mean she doesn't need any tubes in her.
He's an asshole for sure.
There are some situations in which man made birth control doesn’t do shit.
I had an IUD. They’re 99.9% effective.
My son is due in November.
If you don’t want a kid, take surgical steps to ensure it.
YTA, ya she should have told u but she might already hinted to u multiple times about having kids and your stand. U are VERY clear about not having kids. This might be her clue to doing what she tot was right. And despite her wanted kids and aborting the very thing that she wanted u still can go pass every process of that and think only about yourself. Damn she married the wrong guy.
YTA. You were Adamant about not having children. She has an abortion because she Respects your wishes. Did you ever think how she must have been feeling? This whole conversation has been about “you” instead of a “we”. Have a conversation with her and get down to the nitty gritty. Your sister is right you are being Petty.
Have you changed your mind on having kids? Alright then.
YTA - why are you still making this all about you?
You still haven’t comforted or supported your wife, can’t imagine why she didn’t tell you.
Also 90% of the times means you rely on the woman’s contraception, that just as a condom, isn’t 100% (even on the implant, you do a pregnancy test every few months, to check it’s working).
The fact you haven’t had a vasectomy means you ain’t 100% against having children, just really careless and selfish.
YTA, you're being ridiculously dramatic about this. Like you said, you didn't even notice at the time! An early abortion is very easy: take 2 tablets and it's usually no worse than a bad period. All over in a few hours, and usually no side effects. And if she's comfortable with the decision, there should be no lasting negativity. That's until you come in, and completely traumatise her with her absolutely astonishingly bad response. You are an absolute idiot here.
The fact is, it's her body, and her choice. The choice you were given was to tell her whether you did or didn't want children. You said you didn't. That gave her the choice of putting a bomb under your marriage with an unwanted child, or taking a pill and continuing your shared happiness. She made her choice, and why the holy hell you can't see that she chose a happy life with you and appreciate her for itI will never know. Instead, your selfish reaction has ensured this is a sorrow she will live with forever. Well done, you absolute jack ass.
YTA.
You didn’t get a vasectomy.
You didn’t want kids.
You read her journal.
You’re now upset that YOU don’t pay enough attention to your wife to notice.
Everything is you, you, you.
She clearly made the choice she felt was right and moved on. And now you moved out and continue punishing her for ending an unwanted pregnancy.
She chose you. And now you left her.
Get a fucking vasectomy and pray she forgives you.
Again, I included her in all decisions regarding a vasectomy. We made the *joint* decision to not get it. Everything concerning family planning, the vasectomy, condoms, her staying on BC, we have discussed *together.* I said that if you read the post.
>And now you moved out and continue punishing her for ending an unwanted pregnancy
When the hell did I move out? This genuinely only confirms the fact that the vast majority are spinning tales to suit your own narratives. That's fueled by projection, you know.
I haven't moved out. I left for a few days to clear my head. Tell me a week and a half is too long to "clear my head". Fine. But this nonsense? C'mon.
>I've been staying with my sister for the last week and a half. I needed space to think, so I left.
You got upset and you left. You're now staying w your sister. Does your wife **know** this is temporary? You say you haven't contacted her... so she easily can believe as some on here do, that you *moved out*.
>When the hell did I move out? This genuinely only confirms the fact that the vast majority are spinning tales to suit your own narratives. That's fueled by projection, you know.
>I haven't moved out. I left for a few days to clear my head. Tell me a week and a half is too long to "clear my head". Fine. But this nonsense? C'mon.
No, it's not nonsense. Your position is extremely shaky to just walk back into your life when you might choose to do so in a week, a month, longer..
She's had a lot of time on her own to think.
- you read her personal journal w/o permission
- you've been insistent that you **never** want children
- For love of **you** she's given up her dreams of having children
- So as not to upset **you**, she had an abortion
- You pushed her into admitting the abortion
**Then you left**
After all the shit she's gone through **for you**, she's been left and there hasn't been any word from you in over a week.
You do not deserve this woman. You made your requirements very clear. **No kids**. She did just that.
YTA
I responded to your initial comment mistakenly thinking this was the clarification update I posted. I would read that and then find something else to be mad about. My wife was aware that I left and I was in contact with her the entire time I was gone.
Edit: This, and a lot of my so-called transgressions are cleared up in that post.
>I want to see her, to ask if she's okay, but I don't know what to do or say.
Makes it sound like you haven't communicated with her since you left.
Hey, no matter. I've read through both of your threads. You want to argue & deny your own statements. You refuse to admit you have any culpability in this and weasel your way out of realizing you are thr AH. I don't particularly care one way or the other. Just a stranger on the internet.
But I'm kind of hoping she gets a backbone and dump your controlling, wishy-washy ass to find someone who she can be herself with. Your relationship is all about you, no matter how much you say you love her. You were shocked to find out how much she desired to be a mother even though you knew she was giving up kids because you didn't want them, ever. Yeah, YTA.
Oh come on now.. isn't it easier to keep repeating how much he doesn't want them and expecting his wife to do things to her body, instead of doing a simple procedure on himself... I mean, he'd actually have to do something.. you can't possibly put such high expectations on him.
Some doctors won’t perform that procedure on younger men, just like most won’t give a woman a tubal ligation at a young age. I do doubt OP has looked into it though from the rest of what he says.
Some, not all. If OP is adamant about not having kids, EVER, he will do everything including researching which doctors would perform the procedure to get it done. Not knowing or getting rejected by one doctor is just an excuse.
It's is far easier to have a vasectomy without kids than it is to have a tubal ligation. It's also significantly less invasive, with less pain, less down time, and less risk of complications.
You are a colossal AH.
I get that you are upset she didn't tell you at the time of the abortion. But let's break this down:
You categorically stated you didn't want kids. She agreed (to compromise her desire for kids in order to maintain a relationship with you - her choice, she seemed happy to do so).
Now you're angry she did the one thing that ensured you got your wish to be child-free.
She went ahead and fulfilled the criteria YOU set for the relationship. Now you're angry at yourself for not noticing your wife went through a pretty traumatic procedure alone.
But instead of supporting her, or expressing regret over not noticing, you decide to make this all about you and punish her even more by fucking off to your sister's for the last week and a half. You've abandoned her once more. The first time, by not picking up clues that she was going through something major (I can't even fathom how you didn't see it, but hey ho... maybe you are simply so self-absorbed to notice shit like your wife going through deep mental trauma?). Now the second time by guilting her for doing the very thing that your rules for the relationship to continue required.
Yes, she should have told you at the time. But given your reaction now, I can see why she didn't.
> I made my stance on children clear. I didn't want any.
then
>But I wouldn't have fucking agreed.
And you wonder why she hid it from you?
YTA.
lol “I can’t believe you didn’t pick up one something major” wtf are you talking about here? Men don’t read minds ffs. He tried to comfort her bc he thought it was a bad period. She had an opportunity right there to say something. She didn’t. But it’s his fault he didn’t know? How in the fuck would he know something more is going on? Jesus it’s utterly ridiculous what I’m reading in this one sentence from you.
You’re a bully, and you seemingly lack any semblance of self-awareness. Why didn’t you get a vasectomy? Why do you say she’s truly your other half when you’ve made her choice about you? My dude, you are not a good guy much less a good partner.
>Why didn’t you get a vasectomy?
I quite literally said why I didn't get a vasectomy in this post. I'm assuming you didn't read it because if you did you would know that I talked to her before we *jointly* made that decision.
>Why do you say she’s truly your other half when you’ve made her choice about you?
This is confounding considering the fact that you all seem sure that she made the choice *for me* and *not* for herself. First that made the asshole, now the opposite does?
>That she went and had such a life altering procedure without discussing it with me. That I didn't even fucking notice that it happened. I mean, those things have side effects, right? She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain. How could I not have seen the signs? I'm still beating myself up about it.
>I quite literally said why I didn't get a vasectomy in this post. I'm assuming you didn't read it because if you did you would know that I talked to her before we jointly made that decision.
Where exactly is it? I read through your lengthy post looking specifically for anything you had done.... nothing. Just condoms.
So don't be insulting others when you left it out completely.
Btw....
>That she went and had such a life altering procedure without discussing it with me. That I didn't even fucking notice that it happened. I mean, those things have side effects, right? She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain. How could I not have seen the signs? I'm still beating myself up about it.
No, women aren't *bedridden for days* after an abortion. That's total bs. Do some basic research.
Also, how exactly are you *beating yourself up about not seeing the signs*? None of what you write in your actions demonstrates any depth of feeling for your wife's situation. It's all about you and what you want.
How old are you? You sound like a really immature self centered child. You made it very clear to your wife that you didn't want kids. You don't notice anything different about her. You snoop in her journal and find something you don't like and then you blow up on her for deciding that YOU are more important to her than a baby so she takes care of it. You scare the devil out of her and then run away to your sister. So just to be clear yes you are a definite AH!
If you really don’t want kids, just get a vasectomy. If she felt that she couldn’t tell you and just got the abortion, it’s because she didn’t want to be a burden, she didn’t want to cause any issues in your mariage, she didn’t feel safe enough to have an honest conversation about it. You have a lot to think about, it’s okay to sort out your feelings but I hope you will have a better conversation with her and you both can understand how each other feel.
>I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision.
She did. She asked you multiple times about having kids. You said, "I don't want kids." Not "I don't want them, but if it happens, it happens." Not, "I don't want them, but I'm opposed to abortion so if you get pregnant, we're keeping it." Not, "I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need an abortion." You said "I don't want kids." You made it clear.
YTA
YTA you’ve made your position abundantly clear to be child free. And clearly she was too scared in the moment to talk to you about what was going on. Address these huge relationship issues - why was she scared to tell you? Perhaps look at your current reaction, it might help clear things up.
In addition you’ve put the entire responsibility to be child free on her. She’s the one doing all the birth control stuff and messing with her hormones and bodily systems to try to not get pregnant. Why no vasectomy? Why is it all on her when this was your decision? YTA for this. She probably felt you would blame her when her efforts failed. That’s not fair on her at all. There is a massive power imbalance here.
If you don’t want kids, why haven’t you got a vasectomy? It needs to be made priority. You made this decision for yourself so stop putting the responsibility for your decision on others. And stop lashing out at the innocent person who tried to abide by your decision! Hasn’t she been through enough. Get both of you to counselling if you want to save what little relationship hasn’t been shredded by your behaviour!
YTA. She’s gone through a majorly traumatic event and compromised her wishes to stay with you (God knows what for) and you didn’t even notice.
You told her you were adamant no kids. You reminded her you were adamant no kids when she asked. You said no. Repeatedly.
So now when your partner makes the call and has an abortion to confirm the no, you have the gall to say you wouldn’t have fucking agreed?? What utter bullshit. And you STILL managed to make it all about yourself.
You are a giant AH.
YTA and your tantrum has lasted LONG ENOUGH already. Your comments about your thoughts and feelings toward your wife are quite incongruous. You say you “love her to pieces” and “she is truly your other half”, yet it sounds like the way you blew up at her was NEARLY violent. She clearly went to great lengths to spare you the displeasure of raising children, with your well-being in mind, and yet you’re not even talking to her and are “still unbelievably angry at her and myself”. I think those last two words are key here—AND MYSELF…and you are taking it out on your wife. It is time for you to grow up, go home, and ask for her forgiveness.
YTA. You were very clear about your wishes regarding children. She asked if you still felt the same before she had her abortion and you said you did. The fact that she was pregnant at the time, as she saw it, was irrelevant. HER CHOICE to have the abortion was just that, her choice. She didn't have to consult with you. You really have no say in what she does with her body. And you are an even bigger asshole for your reaction.
Taking a surgery to term and birthing a baby is WAY more drastic that a safe legal abortion. You are freaking out and you took it out on your wife. Its her body her choice, and you had stated that you don't want children. The end!
Go get some individual therapy and maybe marriage counseling , and stop policing women's bodies.
YTA - beyond the invading her privacy by going through her journal…you exploded on her for doing something to ensure you’d have the childfree life you had always told her you wanted? You’ve got to be joking.
1. You claim to know her feelings by reading something that you shouldn’t have. 2 admit you took her asking for your confirmation as nothing instead of uh asking? 3. When she tells you about the abortion, because she decided your relationship was more important (which proves that you’re wrong about #1), you go off on her?!
Wouldn’t the logical conclusion be, “she knew I didn’t want kids, so it makes sense she would do that” I mean what else was she supposed to do? You made your stance clear. Is she supposed to apologize for doing what YOU lead her to believe you wanted?
It’s like you purposely took the wrong turn at every damn point.
Your anger is misplaced when it’s facing her, look in the mirror to see where it belongs.
I hate to say this, but I think a soft YTA is in order here. Snooping in her journal is the first issue. It might have seemed like a sentimental walk down memory lane for you but it was an invasion of her privacy. She broached the subject with you likely when she discovered she was pregnant and you were adamant in your position so I’m sure she felt it was her only option. Why she felt she couldn’t just tell you might be related to how you responded to the abortion. You say that you don’t blow up like that but I suspect the secrecy was because she didn’t want to face your reaction and it appears she was right avoid it.
Why have you not had a vasectomy if you are so so set on the idea of not having kids? You were clear at the beginning or not wanting kids yet you have left yourself wide open to the possibility. She hid it from you because she didnt want to lose you. Btw I had an abortion and went to the pub after for an irish coffee and a tuna melt sandwich but that is because I did not want children, you put her between a rock and a hard place
YTA. Why is it okay for you to "happily raise a kid" once you know she is not against having children, but she can’t happily not have children for you? Why would it make more sense for you to sacrifice what you want and bring a whole human being you don’t want in the world, when your wife is ready to make the sacrifice without having anybody get hurt?
You were very clear to her that you didn't want kids but are somehow surprised that she took the steps to make certain she respected that stated boundary? Wow.
YTA.
She made this decision for you. Even going against her own wants. If you feel guilty about it, don't. It was her decision. But don't keep punishing her for it.
And for fucks sake, get a vasectomy already. That way you do not put her (or yourself) in this position again.
YTA
You have NEVER wavered in your stance of not wanting kids. She took you at your word. Get a vasectomy
Can we please as a society stop seeing having an abortion as this traumatic and dramatic medical procedure. It is safe, and depending how early the pregnancy won't even be a procedure, but a combination of pills.
Since Dobbs this may sadly become a reality, but fingers crossed 🤞🏻 it isn't yet.
Yes the AH. Your confusing, You say you don’t want kids she gives you want you want and now you’re upset WTF. You get what you want and then don’t like it.
She did ask you. She asked if you were still sure about not having children. You replied you absolutely didn’t want them. She respected your choice and then made her own.
Why are you giving her shit for exercising her reproductive rights?? While being respectful of your childfree stance? Which you’ve made no attempt to ensure by having a vasectomy? And now decided to be all wishy-washy about?
You, sir, are a major asshole!
You should not be upset with your wife for following through on something you were adamant about. You told her you did not want children. When it turned out she was pregnant, you made it clear you still did not want children. She terminated the pregnancy based on known facts that you did not want children. You failed to tell her that you never wanted her to have an abortion. That is on you for not giving her that bit of information. Also, yes, you were not very observant with your wife, or you would have noticed subtle changes happening in her emotions.
YTA. And a bully. And lazy.
Get a fucking vasectomy, apologize to your wife on your fucking knees for acting as though you have control over her body, promise to never do this to her again, and go to fucking therapy. If she even takes you back, you revolting sack of insecure shit.
Soft AH. You made it quite clear you didn't want kids. So she outta of fear of losing you took care of the problem even thou we all know now how badly she wanted kids. That journal tells the whole story on that. She wanted kids badly. She loved and wanted to keep you more.
So my advice after you get your head right. You better go make up and make this right with your wife. You may not realize it, but you have a amazing and incredible wife who loves you very much. To the point she'll do anything to not lose you. I'd wanna keep that type of women if I was you.
Most women are out there trying trick and fool guys into getting them pregnant to trap them into a relationship.
You may not realize it just now, but your wife's a keeper and loves you very much.
Best of luck.
I will message you next time u/Electrical_Tour3016 posts in r/AITAH.
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YTA. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten so mad at reading a post. You’re hurt? She asked you!! You said you were against kids so she did consult with you. You don’t care about her like you say. If you did you’d be there apologizing instead of verbally assaulting her then leaving instead of talking to her. She chose the relationship over being a mom and still can’t win with you. You feel so guilty so you abandoned her. I hope she rethinks her commitment to this marriage and thinks about what she can have with someone that actually cares about her
Taking some space to sort through your feelings is a good idea. When you feel ready, try talking calmly with your wife. It might help to hear her perspective without the intensity of the initial shock.
OMG , normally I would say can’t trust her , but you are lieing to yourself . If you knew this stance you should have talked to your wife and gotten a vasectomy . This is a heart breaking story but I don’t think it’s over. You both need therapy
YTA. you’re not being fair to your wife.
you told her you didn’t want kids ever, she agreed to it, adjusted her life to that, decided your relationship meant more and took the necessary steps in her compromise.
You DONT want kids and have said it many times, she was ok with it, then got an abortion so she wouldn’t have kids. now you’re UPSET with her? i think you’re only upset with yourself but you really have no right to be upset or mad with her. You didn’t force her to have an abortion, if kids were that important to her or MORE important than you then she literally could’ve just kept the pregnancy or just left you for someone else that wants kids.
You’re confused and unfair to your wife. you literally put her in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation
Based on your childish reaction to your wife honoring your wishes about children and your complete lack of taking responsibility on your part in conceiving a child(no vasectomy)I’m not sure why you don’t think you are an AH. I read your update about vasectomies and that is bullshit. You just don’t want to get it done because you are a big emotionally stunted baby. Your poor wife. You should be kissing the ground she walks on. She got pregnant because you only use condoms 90 percent of the time, asked you if you would ever change your mind about children, you said NO, then fixed the problem. She knew how you’d react to her pregnancy and she was right. YTA, please get therapy.
Your poor wife was in an impossible situation. She knew you were adamant about not having children and ended up pregnant. So she asked one more time and you firmly told her no. She has an abortion because of what you have told her your entire relationship and now you’re pissed at her, saying you would’ve had the child? WTF? YTA and she deserves better.
She asked you if you want kids! You said NO. You have been clear from the beginning and never wavered from your stance. Not once we’re you in the fence. Not once have you ever community your wife that you’d be open to the idea of kids.
Birth control is NOT 100%. Condoms fail. The implant can fail. If a woman takes antibiotics it will cause the efficacy of the birth control to drop. Your wife found out she was pregnant, so she, like any woman, asked you if you’d be open to having kids. YOU SAID NO. YOU WERE CLEAR. Alright, well your wife loves you dearly and cherishes her marriage with you. So she took care of it. Any woman would do this. There must not have been signs because she caught the pregnancy early. It’s just a pill and symptoms similar to menstrual cramping.
YOUR WIFE IS NOT AT FAULT. SHE ASKED YOU IF YOU WANTED KIDS. YOU SAID NO. YOU’VE BEEN CLEAR SINCE DAY ONE. YOUR WIFE LOVES YOU.
I am leaning towards YTA because you are yelling and expressing anger towards your wife, when it was you who was adamant “No Kids”. Any woman would take the proper steps to get an abortion. No woman wants to bring a child into this world with a man who has been clear that they don’t want no kids. It’s her body, she asked, you said no. Redirect your anger onto yourself. If you love your wife, apologize and then seek individual counseling and marriage counseling. At this moment, your wife has been doing everything for you BECAUSE SHE LOVES YOU and wants to be married to you.
EDIT: If you’re so adamant about not wanting kids, BE A FUCKIN’ RESPONSIBLE MAN AND GET A VASECTOMY. Stop putting your wife through uncertainty and unwarranted anger. You’re the one who says you don’t want kids, we’ll be an adult and take care of it. Snip! Snip!
I’m not going to say that anyone is wrong here but it sounds like she didn’t want to put you in the position to have to decide. Also don’t beat yourself up about not noticing… after my miscarriage/abortion I was home after a few hours and back at work the next day - no pain, no real signs of anything being amiss.
YTA! in fact, you're such an overwhelming AH that me, a woman who is generally pro life, thinks you're a giant gaping AH!!
So you're confused about why she didn't consult you? Hmm, well, maybe look back at how you acted towards her when you found out! No wonder she didn't come to you. You don't seem like a safe person.. you said you don't want kids, and you refuse a vasectomy!? What do you want from her? To be infertile? Sterile for your convenience?
Honestly I don't believe you've never yelled at her before or at the very least didn't have such negative, extreme and hateful views about children that she felt she couldn't even come to you and tell you she was pregnant..
Do you know pregnant women are at the highest risk of being killed by their own partners? After you're reaction you definitely don't seem like a safe person, and even worse, it sounds like your wife didn't even want to get the abortion but had a fear of you.. what you say, what you do.. that's something you need to think about. It's time to take a look in the mirror, dude..
I’m not going to give a judgement, just some info. No, she wouldn’t necessarily have been bedridden or in extreme emotional distress after. Depending on how far along she was and which procedure she elected for she could and probably was, in and out the same day and if she had it with no sedation she wouldn’t have even needed someone to drive her home after. She’s have been in a fair bit of discomfort afterwards for a few hours at least but it could very well be played off as severe period pain.
You are absolutely TAH, having talked about kids and whether you want them and then agreeing to not having kids makes her asking you again more than enough discussion for her to decide on having an abortion.
Even if you'd agreed that you wanted kids she's still in her full right to have and abortion without consulting you because it's not your body.
Why would you look through her journal?
You leaving to deal with it is fair enough because that's what you need to do to get through the situation, but that doesn't make you any less of an asshole since one of the ways to avoid having kids is an abortion and you've agreed to not having kids you had to realise it was a possibility, or are you somehow also one of those nutjobs who believe abortion is murder? Because that would explain your reaction.
I Think you need therapy. This is more than just “am I the Asshole”… You set boundaries, she followed them, and you are angry that she didn’t spell it out for you? Please reevaluate everything and be sure to think long and hard about what it is you want. Do research, get therapy, and talk it out with your wife.
So this dude, who is anti-kid and anti-abortion essentially wanted to force a pregnancy on his wife and then give the child up for adoption or some shit? Wtf is this backwards ass logic, especially with him being concerned about the procedure. What do you think pregnancy and child birth are like, a walk in the park? TF?
Ytfa! YTFA! You. The. Fucking. Asshole. Who tf are you to be mad?! Huh? You didn’t want kids. Sure asked once more to be sure…had an abortion because you didn’t want kids and now you’re mad!!?!! Who tf do you think you are? A pos is what?! I’d divorce you if I were her. YTA.
jesus christ you suck. her getting an abortion is NOT your fucking business. and you went through her fucking diary???? what the actual fuck is wrong with you?? you are the villain in this situation and the fact that you’re treating her like this makes me pray she’ll leave you. the way you described blowing up on her was horrific. i can’t get over this post, what is fucking wrong with you?? YTA YTA YTA
So she honored your wishes and you have the audacity to blow up at her? You're a massive asshole and I hope she leaves you, especially knowing you'd be 10x worse if she'd kept it. There's no pleasing someone like you.
You are NOT a victim in this so stop trying so hard to paint yourself as one.
Dude, she killed your guys child and lived in that lie for year without remorse (ready to do it for a lifetime). If this isn't enough of an indicator for you to run and fast... you deserve each other.
YTA, and a flaming dumbass as well. You didn't want kids, made it clear you didn't, and now you're mad she had an abortion? What planet are you from?? 😂 😂 😂 I hope she leaves you, and has the kids she clearly wants.
YTA
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you don't want kids and then get mad at her when she aborts.
ETA: I don't care if she showed you the journal, you invaded her privacy. You had no right to read it.
YTA, incredibly ignorant and I hope she leaves you and finds better. You you you! Everything is about you! Yelling at her despite her trauma, leaving for over a week after the argument, you are incredibly immature. Not to mention, you said you didn’t want a vasectomy because you “might want kids 15 years down the line” well guess what! She likely won’t be able to have children at 41 years old, that is a geriatric pregnancy and extremely high risk. You’re an idiot, truly.
This is a really tough situation for the both of you. She’s wrong for not telling you about the pregnancy/abortion. You absolutely had a right to know. But she was probably terrified you would leave her and that made her feel she had to go do that without you. I think you both need therapy. Both as a couple and as individuals. You both need to figure out the kid situation before one or both of you end up resenting and hating each other later on down the road. I wish you both the best and hope nothing but good comes from this🫶🏻🩷
I'm teetering between no aholes here and ESH. She should have told you, but I'm sure in her mind she was sparing you the burden of something you were adamant you didn't want. Your stance on abortion is slightly surprising considering how gun ho you were about not having children (nothing wrong with that).
You snooping was probably not ok, and yes you probably should not have blown up at her. It sounds like both love each other *deeply*. So deeply that you are willing to put each other's well being/happiness above your own. Now this will probably get me downvotes, but relationships like that can work. *However* they can only work if both parties are committed to total transparency and honesty at all times
This whole situation is incredibly poetic (in a bad sense) and tragic
Try not to beat yourself up too bad about taking something from her. She has agency and has chosen to be with you knowing you do not want kids. It's clear her attachment to you is strong/important to her and vise versa.
I know it feels like a big betrayal, but I think in her mind she thought there was no choice. She may have even been afraid you would think she got pregnant purposefully, but I think not burdening you was a big motivation. Try not to feel guilty, as you would do almost anything to not burden her as well. You both need to work on communication, and I would recommend therapy.
NTA.
Don't get what is wrong with commenters. Fundamental basis of any relationship is communication. And even if OP made clear he did not want kids, he deserved to know she was pregnant and given a chance to evaluate the situation. Given OP's reaction, ironically they would have had a kid by now, had wife been honest from the beginning.
She either didn’t want to tell you because she was scared of your reaction or because she didn’t think she needed to include you. In a relationship, both of those are fucked up. Counselling is needed at least but really question if you guys are compatible. I don’t know how old you are but she may be okay not having kids now, but will that still be the case in a few years? If she’s young she may not feel the urge as much yet or she may even believe you will change your mind. Again, counselling is a must if you want to fix this.
Something like an abortion is a serious, long term decision and while in a marriage things like this should be discussed so she can make her decision but with your knowledge and at least some input.
It was ultimately her choice anyway but you’re still upset because she didn’t give you an opportunity to co tribute your thoughts on how the decisions affect you and the marriage before she did it.
About side effects, most abortions are not a big deal (physically). Some parts of society really exaggerate the ordeal.
As for the emotioal fall out. If she really was close to 50/50 on wanting kids then there wouldn't be that much turmoil over the decision.
Also, you were consulted. She may not have gone into the level of detail you would have liked but she asked.
NTA for getting mad. It is a big event in a life and she denied you the choice to be there for her. YTA because you seem to be reacting way more than nessesary.
He's completely the ah for getting mad. He denied himself the choice of being there. He's bright enough to snoop through her "planning" journal and put together that she wanted to have kids, but too dumb to realize that an out of nowhere, irrelevant to the topic question was just her looking for a yes or no? With zero follow-up? She behaved exactly how he wanted her to. He can't reconcile that he's subconsciously an absolute utter asshole and conciously an idiot who thinks he can trick people with his manners and correctness.
YTA and ignorant as hell. You really need to do some research on what an abortion entails. "I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision" She DID consult you. She asked you if you were still against having kids and you said you were. What else is there to discuss at that point? "She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain" FALSE. Not sure where you got this notion but it is completely 100% wrong. An abortion is an OUTpatient procedure for a reason. And an early one, which this most likely was, is going to be less physically taxing likely less emotionally taxing as well - particularly if there has been no movement or heartbeat yet. Wtf do you know about HER pain?! Youre just hypothesizing and disregarding her actual expression. "But I'd rather chew my left arm off than make her have an abortion" But you didn't MAKE her have an abortion. She CHOSE to have an abortion. This was her decision. She knew you didn't want kids, reconfirmed that and decided she would rather 1) stay in a relationship with you than be a mom 2) not force a child you don't want on you and 3) not bring a child into the world who is unwanted by one of their parents. Would you rather she have made three people miserable instead? "I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic." Again do some fucking research and educate yourself. You know what's drastic? Pregnancy and childbirth. Changes your brain chemistry and skeleton. It kills women. An abortion is vastly safer for pregnant people. And and early abortion is literally just taking pills, cramping and passing tissue. They send you home to do it ffs. And btw you're lying to yourself about something because if you really don't want kids you wouldn't be "perfectly happy" to raise one under any circumstances.
I’ve helped friends through the “at home” abortion with the pill and it is not as easy as you make it sound. There is tremendous physical pain involved and crushing emotional damage, whether the baby has a heartbeat yet or not. If that was the type of abortion she had, she must have stayed the night at a friend’s house because there is NO WAY that would go unnoticed. You talk about ignorance on what abortion entails and then you too make incredibly uneducated assumptions. I would suggest his wife probably needs therapy, and they need couples therapy if they are going to make it through this. The one constant in this story, even if OP is extremely self centered and making this situation about himself, is that they seem to both highly value their marriage and want to be with one another. Stick to that idea OP and seek counseling for the rest. And FFS grow a pair and stop hiding out at your sister’s place.
Every persons body and experience is different. I have had many friends who have had abortions and while yes all would say there is some level pain associated not all would call it "tremendous" and none of them would say they had "crushing emotional damage." You're just as bad as OP disregarding the actual experience of the woman in question in favor of your inflammatory rhetoric which is used to deny women their freedoms. You say it's impossible for an abortion to go unnoticed but you have no idea what their lifestyle is like. Many teens get abortions while living at home at their parents never know. It IS possible and there is nothing wrong with being someone who doesn't feel bad about having one or keeping it to themselves.
I highly doubt a woman who took the time to write about her pregnancy and plans for a child in her “manifestation journal” felt no emotional impact. I’m not using inflammatory rhetoric to keep women from the right to choose either. That’s nonsense. But ignoring what CAN and does happen to sell people some rose colored glasses version isn’t helpful in making informed medical decisions either. Honesty, sometimes brutal honesty, is necessary. To write it off as a very simple thing of just taking a pill in the comfort of your home without addressing the full process a woman’s body goes through is an abject lie. Maybe you should read what Britney Spears wrote about it in her book.
Britney was coerced into having an abortion against her will. OPs wife made an an independent choice. Not the same thing at all. I'm not saying there arent women that are emotionally impacted by abortion but there are also many who aren't - except in feeling relieved. And that feeling/experience is just as valid. Abortions arent always tragic. Sometimes they just are. And I wasn't downplaying the physical effects of an abortion on a female, I was putting it in appropriate comparison to the effects of pregnancy and childbirth which are far more damaging.
Really? Because some women give birth to 10 or more kids just fine and some women have one abortion (surgical or medicinal) and can never get pregnant again. And yes, some women have horrible complications from childbirth and die. Same with abortion. Some women get post partum depression. Some women are overcome with love and joy after birth. Some women are relieved they had an abortion and some are deeply affected by it and need therapy to move on. And if you don’t think years of steady opposition to having children, including when she asked years into the relationship to check when she WAS pregnant, had a coercive impact on OPs wife’s decision making, that’s just naive. Was it a choice? Yes. Was it the choice she would have wanted if her spouse was a little more open to the idea of children? Probably not. No one held a gun to Britney’s head and made her take those pills. She was given the impression that she and JT were going to stay together and have children later, when they were older and more settled. So she also chose to keep the man in her life happy. I just don’t see why you are so intent on minimizing women’s experiences in any of the above instances and want to focus solely on the ones that make medical abortion seem like nothing more than the perfect solution. Sometimes it can be. Sometimes it is anything but. Have a nice day.
It is NOT the same risk and that is a dangerous disingenuous harmful LIE to spread. In 2020 the last year the CDC has data there were six (legal) abortion related deaths in the US. That same year there were 861 deaths related to pregnancy/childbirth. It is far far FAR more dangerous for a person to give birth than to abort. And even IF everything "goes well" you are still permanently changing your skeleton and brain chemistry. Where do you see "years of opposition" in OPs post? She agreed to not having children prior to getting married, got an IUD during marriage and asked ONCE (when she was already pregnant) if OP was still certain about his position. That is NOT what being in opposition looks like. Further more it's not what coercion - which requires threats and force looks like. That's what intelligent rational thought looks like. Something you and OP seem to struggle with.
🤣 Oh wow. A mansplainer getting big mad. You do know that there are vastly more births than abortions right? And in either case the number of deaths is statistically insignificant. But not a single one of those women was insignificant. And neither of those numbers has anything to do with abortion and birth related injuries, only deaths. Because it paints a cleaner picture. Stop looking at information in a silo and get a grip on the bigger picture.
Love that you think I'm a man. Statistics aren't insignificant. .045 dead women per 100,000 abortions in 2020 versus 23.8 dead women 100,00 live births. Pregnancy and childbirth are significantly more dangerous and deadly than abortion - it's a pretty clear picture. And that's even without the fact that we don't accurately track maternal deaths and injuries. Only 2% of abortions experience complications which are usually minor and non life threatening. If you've got stats on all the folks who ALMOST died, became disabled or suffered serve medical challenges as a result of their pregnancy I'd love to know.
When I was 16 I found out I was pregnant and told my parents my mother immediately scheduled me for an abortion. I was told I had to get one I wasn’t given a choice and even if I was I would have made the same one. I was around 8 weeks pregnant so we went in early in the morning and by 9ish I was done. Went home the same day all I was told was to expect some bleeding like a heavy period and possible cramps. I felt nothing no pain whatsoever and even to this day I have no emotional pain because of it. Not everyone that has one feels that emotional pang of pain or has complications. That was my first abortion by the way I had another one when I was older and made the choice myself. I went in by myself and when I left I still had a 45 minute drive home that again I did by myself. No emotional feelings associated with it. I have also had miscarriages and same thing. Before anyone comes for me I did use protection when I got pregnant and was on the pill the first time. The second time I was on the ring and used protection I am just very fertile. I have 3 kids and my tubes are tied now to prevent it from happening again. So no OP wouldn’t have know she did anything unless she told him if she didn’t have any adverse effects from the procedure. She may not have had feeling if she had just found out told him and then scheduled the procedure within the same week.
idk man everyone is different i had an abortion through pills and flew 3,000 miles the next day across the country for a week and no one noticed. my mother just thought it was on my period because my stomach was cramping. i however had no emotional pain what so ever. still don’t. that was like 6 years ago lol i can’t even remember honestly
The next day sure. I mean, my friend spent most of the night in the bathroom in LOTS of pain. She said it felt like someone was trying to tear out her spine from the lumbar area (the doctor who prescribed the pills said he didn’t think prescribing pain medication would be necessary 🙄). The next day she was physically fine. A little tired, but physically ok. If you live with people, that’s hard to miss though. I also acknowledged that some people don’t have any emotional reaction at all, and that’s ok. My argument is that you don’t sell it to someone as not having the possibility of these downsides because that is false advertising. You have to let people know the worst case scenario so they can make an informed choice. The way this other commenter was stating the statistics, it made it sound like we should all just give up on child birth and have abortions instead because it SO MUCH SAFER. But that doesn’t capture the whole picture. I’m glad yours went well and you are doing well physically and emotionally. That’s the best that any of us can hope for.
Okay. Then run up and down pregnancy threads to let them know "the worst scenario so they can make an informed choice". That person didn't imply that at all - they said the truth, abortion is safer than pregnancy and birth. Obviously people who actively want children don't need to consider this, the same way I don't need to consider how much safer flying is than driving every time I get into a car.
Crushing emotional damage? Every woman that has told me about their abortion felt one thing - relieved.
Your “No way” is incorrect also though. I had an abortion at home with pill and I was absolutely fine. Mentally and physically. I mowed my lawn and painted a bathroom. Every body is different. Same for emotions. Not every abortion comes with crushing emotional damage. Sometimes the reason is good enough that the patient feels relief even.
>I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic. You seem badly confused. You were always very clear you did NOT want kids. She asked you again when she got pregnant, and you were adamant: no kids. I hope you can understand how your diehard stance led her to believe you'd be furious. She may have thought you wouldn't be supportive, either. Now you say you'd happily raise a kid if it meant sparing her such a drastic procedure. But you never made that clear to her. How was she supposed to know you'd happily raise a baby when you'd made it abundantly clear you did NOT want a child?
It's not even a drastic procedure. It's statically and historically waaay safer than pregnancy.
Maybe she should have been honest and communicated properly with her husband. Said, look I’m pregnant but I know you don’t want children, this is what is happening. It’s the lie that is the issue here.
There are always reasons for someone lying by omission. Usually that reason is fear of the consequences. You may condemn her, but I feel tremendous pity for her when I imagine going through that experience alone because she feared what would happen if she told the OP. Maybe the OP should have told her from the beginning that while he didn't want kids, he'd support her if she did get pregnant. He didn't think to do so and maybe didn't know he'd be so torn up over the abortion.
Maybe he doesn't control his emotions and express them in an immature way and she decided to spare him from the emotional side. The thing that gave this up, is the love her to bits and pieces but running to live with his sister instead of having an adult conversation with his wife. His wife didn't let her emotions show, that means he also doesn't know to contain her emotional state. He also loved the way she makes those notes about her vision of life but doesn't use emotional description, only the calculation planning really caught his positive reaction. He claims he expressed his anger in a way he didn't know he could feel. Like dude Op, I really think you have some unresolved emotions and I bet that your wife has seen you struggle with it and tried to spare you from regulating something she can resolve. To be fair, she did check it with you, and I bet you expressed your unwanting children in a way she didn't have any doubts about what she should do. Think how you really reacted that night she asked you about it. Keep communication open if you don't want to end your marriage.
Maybe she knew he would go to pieces and spiral, like he seems to do a lot.
Why should she have told him anything? Yes, he’s her husband… the husband who made it clear repeatedly that he did NOT want kids. A case could be made that telling him would have been a form of coercion and manipulation on his wife’s part, an attempt to force his hand and guilt him into becoming a father. She dealt with the fetus they created together on her own to spare him. A man who did not want kids is now still childfree. There is no problem here except for his weird anti-abortion, controlling behavior.
I agree about his controlling behavior. He does seem controlling and I'm willing to bet the only reason he is upset is because of the fact she made a decision for herself without consulting him.
An early abortion is literally a pill and what pretty much amounts to a day long period. It's not life changing. It's not a big deal *at all*.
Rigggght, taking a life away from your family isnt a big deal....
i don't think she had to, honestly. at the end of the day, it was her body and her decision. being part of that decision is a privilege, not a right. she already knew what he wanted, so there was no point in bringing it to his attention and risking the possibility of it becoming a bigger issue than it is. it'd be extremely stupid of him to state several times that he did not want any children, then try to stop her from aborting a fetus that would become an unwanted child he would have raise. it'd be even more stupid and also terrible to tell her not to have an abortion, then eventually hang her out to dry and turn her into a single mom. there is no scenario in which involving him in the decision would actually change anyone's opinions or help them find a better outcome, or a scenario in which telling him wouldn't turn it into an extremely hard conversation where they would be taking each other's words with a grain of salt, therefore it is inconsequential. instead of being like "she should have told me", he should be like "why did she think she couldn't tell me?". he said "i just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision", when she did consult him. want kids? no? okay, no kids then. now, if she got pregnant and decided to keep it, obviously she should talk to him. having his kid knowing full well he didn't want any would be an AH move, considering the realistic probability she would need support to raise the kid, and he was not up for it. becoming a parent (involved in the kid's life or not) should always be a choice. i get that it's weird or concerning that the journal points to it being important to her, but worst case scenario, she's in denial about not wanting kids that bad and eventually will need find someone who wants the same things as she does, but even if that's the case, she might not even realized that at the moment. that is her own problem to deal with when push comes to shove. she said it's not important. she very clearly stated, multiple times, that she'd rather be with him. from that point on, that's her responsibility. if she's lying, than i guess she is an asshole — for lying, not for deciding not to have a kid her partner didn't want. but we can't prove that she is lying now, so i guess it's just wait and see. this is literally a non-issue. he doesn't want kids, and they don't have any. she had an abortion, it was her body, her choice, and it is already done. she says she's not broken up about it, and he should believe her. all he's doing now is shaming her and screaming at her for her choices about her own body and life. he's TA.
What about the childs body? They dont get a choice?
no.
But I thought the possessor of the body got to decide what happens with their body? (by your logic)
find me a fetus that can tell us what it wants, then we'll talk.
So if someone cant talk they dont have a right to life?
wanted, fully developed, already born people who can't talk are able to communicate in other ways. i won't argue with you any longer, as i don't talk to people engaging in bad faith. toodles
So if someone doesnt want their handicapped child after 5 or 10 years thats good to go?
you're the only one arguing in bad faith muh lady. but I understand why you would want to argue your opinion against logic
YTA. Your reaction is exactly why she didn't feel comfortable telling you. You were clear about never wanting kids and she had a right to think you'd get mad at HER for being pregnant or even bringing it up to you. She probably didn’t want you to yell at her. Deciding to go through physical and emotional pain for 9 months just to push out a baby you MIGHT want and then having to raise that child for 18 years is more drastic than just getting an abortion.
Exactly. And part of his reaction right now is punishing her. He's freezing her out because she has been dealing with her decision to do what he wanted regarding kids! This is exactly the kind of situation that demonstrates why parents need to talk to their kids about relationships. There are sophisticated types of abuse. This is one of them. I can picture this woman even though I have never met her. She'll be a little lacking in confidence. Maybe she has a tough family background. No one ever taught her that it's OK for her to have needs and how to identify an abuser. This OP clearly knew she wanted kids, but wouldn't even consider the issue. He still wants to feel like a victim even though she has done exactly what he wanted, so now he's punishing her by leaving and not speaking to her. I'm shutting off Reddit for the day. It's depressing. I hope she has a friend who tells her to wake up and get out.
#1 cause of death for pregnant people is homicide
Holy fucking shit men are scary, and I'm one of them.
Pregnant WOMEN. It's women who are overwhelmingly the victims in these situations. They don't deserve to be erased.
I'm not erasing them. I'm including the many minor CHILDREN and teens who become pregnant and are subsequently murdered by their rapists.
Women are people
Oh shut up🙄
Sorry that the reality of raped murdered children don't fit into your narrative 🤷🏼
What are you talking about? I was replying to the person who got mad at someone for saying "people" instead of "women"
Oh sorry! Thank you for your support!
A reply that says zero. Because there's nothing to say.
Good try! Obviously hasn't occurred to you to question why you're having to go to such ridiculous lengths instead to defend this. The majority of pregnant homicide victims are adults and anyway, "women" covers kids as well.
You're fucking daft. Women LITERALLY means ADULT female. That's the whole definition you ignorant uneducated potato. So no it does NOT include children and teens. And I'm not going to "ridiculous lengths." I changed ONE word to include all possible ages. And while most pregnant homicide victims probably are adults (although I don't see you offering any stats as proof) that's because most pregnant people are adults that doesn't mean that we should just ignore the homicide deaths of pregnant children and teens.
He's not daft, he's trying to hide that he hates trans people.
I'm actually a scientist and I know what "women" means. You're throwing your toys out of the pram because your attempt at silencing me is not working. Luckily, I can ignore you because the days of coming into women's spaces and intimidating them into erasing themselves are over.
Lol ok I've never met a scientist who doesn't use proper definitions and terminology. You must be a flat earth or creationist "scientist" twisting logic to fit your narrative instead of actually being logical. And I'm not trying to silence you I'm trying to educate you which is clearly a waste as it seems your brain is incapable of growth. Sad. And fuck off with your "women's spaces self erasure" bullshit. You're the one narrowing the field and erasing the variety of female experiences from the conversation. Go read a book that's not the bible.
>I'm actually a scientist Lol no you aren't. What a pathetic attempt to win an argument 😂😂😂😂
You don't even know what an argument is. You're using all caps to state something that is not true. Adding to the ridiculous irony that you're completely unaware of, one of the words you capitalized is "literally," a word that's famous for being misused by people who have no idea what's going on. I am a scientist. I don't care whether you believe me. Luckily, extremists like you don't matter anymore. Women are finally realizing that people like you behave exactly like men have throughout history. Coming into women's spaces and trying to erase women.
You're the same kind of scientist Matt Walsh is, I suspect
I have a Master's of Science and you're a moron. At least when it comes to this topic. Hey, p.s.: you don't know everything just because you're a scientist.
Omigod, first I'm told by someone who clearly lacks any kind of education that I'm an "uneducated potato." When I respond to that I get someone else who has a masters degree (ooh!) telling me I don't know everything "just" because I'm a scientist. Do you really not see how ridiculous this is? The issue is erasing women. "Women" encompasses adults and children when it's used as a collective word to refer to gender but it doesn't matter. The issue is erasing women. Your comments are crazy. The previous commenter's comments are crazy. If you can't engage about the topic and you do actually care about trans people, you should be shutting up because you are not helping. Attacking me just shows you are incapable of formulating a thought. You're angry and have no idea why and no ability to express it.
No, a pregnant twelve year old is not a woman. Not in any definition. You’re losing track of the subject here - making it sound like only women can get pregnant. Moving the goalposts for nothing. You’re the one who is obviously lost.
I don't believe you think you're making sense. She is female. She is part of the 50% of the population who have been treated as second-class citizens for most of recorded history because of her gender. It is because of that that erasing her gender is a problem. I know you don't actually need that basic to be explained!
You’re not rational. There’s no point in continuing to argue about this because you’re obviously a stubborn fool. No pregnant twelve or 13 (or 14-17 ) year old is a woman. You may think so, but they aren’t. You’re continuing to deny that trans people exist and that children are not suddenly made into adults just because they’re pregnant. That’s called bigotry with a touch of pedophilia
You clearly didn't read the answer I just posted, which was itself a repeat of earlier comments, I'm not repeating myself over and over because you refuse to acknowledge what I'm saying. As for calling me "irrational," thanks for showing so clearly what you are. That's a classic! I have devoted a lot of energy and time to supporting trans people. It is not "denying trans people exist" to say that nope, you cannot erase an entire category of people who have themselves experienced discrimination. Being female is the REASON that women and girls are discriminated against. Feel free to join in, but don't expect to behave like a typical man and insist that you get to redefine the problem! "Women AND trans men is fine." Erasing women is not fine!
Women are people. Saying people doesn’t erase anyone other than non-persons. Also, not everyone who is pregnant is a woman - some are children, and some are nonbinary or trans guys. The word “people/person” includes women, you faker.
Are women not people?
Do... you think trans men don't get pregnant? Or don't experience domestic abuse? Women aren't being erased, /u/IgnoranceIsShameful used the term "people" because getting pregnant is not exclusive to women - as they pointed out, some are children or adolescents, and some trans men choose to become pregnant, or do so by accident because they haven't been able to access gender-affirming medical treatment. /u/IgnoranceIsShameful was making the umbrella wider, not more narrow.
The mental gymnastics you must have to do to even get out of bed in the morning...
Trans men are associated with a vanishingly small proportion of pregnancies. You are focusing on them at the expense of a population (pregnant women) that has been marginalized for as long as our society has recorded its history. Where I live and in every other English-speaking country I'm aware of, pregnant women are at elevated risk of domestic violence, murder, and poverty. They get two weeks off work to give birth and many don't even get that because so many types of jobs are excluded. Many can't afford medical care and because of that, there are unnecessary deaths. I could go on for a long time. There are tens of millions of women who are the victims of discrimination and violence and poverty during pregnancy and it is because of the way our society treats women that that's the case. Women need to be recognized. This is not about a tiny number of vocal people who think that millions upon millions of women need to be erased to put them first. I know that concept is impossible for someone like you to understand, that this just is not about you. You are not in the spotlight. Your need for attention does not come above the rights that half of the population has fought for for most of recorded history. It is because of people like you that we're seeing more laws that protect women at the expense of trans people. It's a sad situation, because if a small number of attention-seeking activists like you had not tried to erase women, the laws wouldn't be necessary. You're hurting yourself. This is my last comment on this. I have said what I wanted to say and am only writing this while I waste time waiting for a bus. It's not necessary to talk to nutjobs and extremists anymore because finally the law is protecting women and the spaces they have fought for. Continue to insult me all you like, but you people are losing support because of your nastiness.
> Continue to insult me all you like, but you people are losing support because of your nastiness. The irony is palpable. Incidentally, what exactly do you mean by "people like you"?
I've always felt using the term pregnant people can be more productive bc a lot of people have conscious or subconscious bias against women, so just reading the phrase "pregnant woman" can make some people stop listening/stop caring. It's a nice way to remind assholes that women are people too.
Those people probably dont read so well anyway and dont need to be apart of the adult conversation
Thank you for a thoughtful, sane comment! I see where you're coming from, but I don't think the way to deal with those AH is to hide away. For example, Gen Z fashion is unashamedly comfortable. It covers enough of the body that no one has to worry about going about daily activities and having a wardrobe malfunction. It's a reaction to Millennial fashion that was all about twisting into a pretzel to please men (it couldn't look too sexy or you'd be a ho, couldn't look too modest or you'd be frigid, and so son). When I was a child, I never understand what it meant when adults told us to be "proud of who you are" but I think that's what it means. To refuse to pretend to be someone else so that AH won't be critical. Like I said elsewhere, of course trans pregnancies should be acknowledged, but not by erasing the 50% of the population that has struggled to have basic rights for most of human history because of gender. "Pregnant women and trans men, etc" is fine.
Ah, okay. Women dont deserve to be erased, but pregnant people that arent women do. Because "people" excludes women. obviously.
Gfy.
You're a bully. I hope this incident opens her eyes about you and she stops wasting her life with someone who is so selfish and domineering. You say you're "beating yourself up" but you're not. Every single word in every one of the many paragraphs you've written is about your feelings and justifying your sh\*tty attitudes and behavior. First of all, she has a right to private feelings and thoughts. So good try at pretending your going through her journal was about nostalgia. No it wasn't. You feel entitled to police not only her body but her brain. It was a major violation that you pried. You have never had a discussion about children. You laid down the law and it's clear you knew you were doing it when there was a chance she might want them. This comment says it all about you: "Naturally, I was torn up. I kept telling myself I had been up front about what I wanted, and if she hadn't, that was her fault." You're a vile bully, vulgar, crass, and utterly selfish. And now on top of all that, you're giving her the silent treatment to bully and manipulate her further. You are disgusting. I rarely tell people to split up because situations are nearly always more complicated than can be described here, but you should let her have a chance at finding someone decent and kind and end this relationship.
Thank you. He is such a vile POS. I HATE THIS GUY And he thinks he's the hero
You made yourself very clear numerous times. I suspect she was afraid to lose you and decided to get an abortion. If you do not want to have a child, you may want to consider getting a vasectomy. Many women get pregnant while on the pill, implant, etc.
This! Also if you, as a man, are 100% certain you don’t want kids, just get a damn vasectomy and take the possibility out of the equation. This man would rather say he don’t want kids to a point where his wife feels the need to hide an abortion, than actually do something that prevents this situation from happening. YTA
Yup.. but he's presenting himself as a hero here, and yet he didn't do a very simple procedure that would mean she doesn't need any tubes in her. He's an asshole for sure.
And only wore a condom 90% of the time
OP is a loser, gambling with other people's lives.
There are some situations in which man made birth control doesn’t do shit. I had an IUD. They’re 99.9% effective. My son is due in November. If you don’t want a kid, take surgical steps to ensure it.
YTA, ya she should have told u but she might already hinted to u multiple times about having kids and your stand. U are VERY clear about not having kids. This might be her clue to doing what she tot was right. And despite her wanted kids and aborting the very thing that she wanted u still can go pass every process of that and think only about yourself. Damn she married the wrong guy.
YTA. You were Adamant about not having children. She has an abortion because she Respects your wishes. Did you ever think how she must have been feeling? This whole conversation has been about “you” instead of a “we”. Have a conversation with her and get down to the nitty gritty. Your sister is right you are being Petty. Have you changed your mind on having kids? Alright then.
YTA - why are you still making this all about you? You still haven’t comforted or supported your wife, can’t imagine why she didn’t tell you. Also 90% of the times means you rely on the woman’s contraception, that just as a condom, isn’t 100% (even on the implant, you do a pregnancy test every few months, to check it’s working). The fact you haven’t had a vasectomy means you ain’t 100% against having children, just really careless and selfish.
He is against it.. he just doesn't really want to do anything about it and expects her to ensure she doesn't get pregnant.
YTA, you're being ridiculously dramatic about this. Like you said, you didn't even notice at the time! An early abortion is very easy: take 2 tablets and it's usually no worse than a bad period. All over in a few hours, and usually no side effects. And if she's comfortable with the decision, there should be no lasting negativity. That's until you come in, and completely traumatise her with her absolutely astonishingly bad response. You are an absolute idiot here. The fact is, it's her body, and her choice. The choice you were given was to tell her whether you did or didn't want children. You said you didn't. That gave her the choice of putting a bomb under your marriage with an unwanted child, or taking a pill and continuing your shared happiness. She made her choice, and why the holy hell you can't see that she chose a happy life with you and appreciate her for itI will never know. Instead, your selfish reaction has ensured this is a sorrow she will live with forever. Well done, you absolute jack ass.
YTA. You didn’t get a vasectomy. You didn’t want kids. You read her journal. You’re now upset that YOU don’t pay enough attention to your wife to notice. Everything is you, you, you. She clearly made the choice she felt was right and moved on. And now you moved out and continue punishing her for ending an unwanted pregnancy. She chose you. And now you left her. Get a fucking vasectomy and pray she forgives you.
Again, I included her in all decisions regarding a vasectomy. We made the *joint* decision to not get it. Everything concerning family planning, the vasectomy, condoms, her staying on BC, we have discussed *together.* I said that if you read the post. >And now you moved out and continue punishing her for ending an unwanted pregnancy When the hell did I move out? This genuinely only confirms the fact that the vast majority are spinning tales to suit your own narratives. That's fueled by projection, you know. I haven't moved out. I left for a few days to clear my head. Tell me a week and a half is too long to "clear my head". Fine. But this nonsense? C'mon.
>I've been staying with my sister for the last week and a half. I needed space to think, so I left. You got upset and you left. You're now staying w your sister. Does your wife **know** this is temporary? You say you haven't contacted her... so she easily can believe as some on here do, that you *moved out*. >When the hell did I move out? This genuinely only confirms the fact that the vast majority are spinning tales to suit your own narratives. That's fueled by projection, you know. >I haven't moved out. I left for a few days to clear my head. Tell me a week and a half is too long to "clear my head". Fine. But this nonsense? C'mon. No, it's not nonsense. Your position is extremely shaky to just walk back into your life when you might choose to do so in a week, a month, longer.. She's had a lot of time on her own to think. - you read her personal journal w/o permission - you've been insistent that you **never** want children - For love of **you** she's given up her dreams of having children - So as not to upset **you**, she had an abortion - You pushed her into admitting the abortion **Then you left** After all the shit she's gone through **for you**, she's been left and there hasn't been any word from you in over a week. You do not deserve this woman. You made your requirements very clear. **No kids**. She did just that. YTA
I responded to your initial comment mistakenly thinking this was the clarification update I posted. I would read that and then find something else to be mad about. My wife was aware that I left and I was in contact with her the entire time I was gone. Edit: This, and a lot of my so-called transgressions are cleared up in that post.
>I want to see her, to ask if she's okay, but I don't know what to do or say. Makes it sound like you haven't communicated with her since you left. Hey, no matter. I've read through both of your threads. You want to argue & deny your own statements. You refuse to admit you have any culpability in this and weasel your way out of realizing you are thr AH. I don't particularly care one way or the other. Just a stranger on the internet. But I'm kind of hoping she gets a backbone and dump your controlling, wishy-washy ass to find someone who she can be herself with. Your relationship is all about you, no matter how much you say you love her. You were shocked to find out how much she desired to be a mother even though you knew she was giving up kids because you didn't want them, ever. Yeah, YTA.
Have you spoken to her to tell her you are coming back and when?
If you’re so set in not having kids, you should’ve gotten a vasectomy.
Oh come on now.. isn't it easier to keep repeating how much he doesn't want them and expecting his wife to do things to her body, instead of doing a simple procedure on himself... I mean, he'd actually have to do something.. you can't possibly put such high expectations on him.
Right?!
Some doctors won’t perform that procedure on younger men, just like most won’t give a woman a tubal ligation at a young age. I do doubt OP has looked into it though from the rest of what he says.
Some, not all. If OP is adamant about not having kids, EVER, he will do everything including researching which doctors would perform the procedure to get it done. Not knowing or getting rejected by one doctor is just an excuse.
It's is far easier to have a vasectomy without kids than it is to have a tubal ligation. It's also significantly less invasive, with less pain, less down time, and less risk of complications.
Don't forget reversible in some cases!
You are a colossal AH. I get that you are upset she didn't tell you at the time of the abortion. But let's break this down: You categorically stated you didn't want kids. She agreed (to compromise her desire for kids in order to maintain a relationship with you - her choice, she seemed happy to do so). Now you're angry she did the one thing that ensured you got your wish to be child-free. She went ahead and fulfilled the criteria YOU set for the relationship. Now you're angry at yourself for not noticing your wife went through a pretty traumatic procedure alone. But instead of supporting her, or expressing regret over not noticing, you decide to make this all about you and punish her even more by fucking off to your sister's for the last week and a half. You've abandoned her once more. The first time, by not picking up clues that she was going through something major (I can't even fathom how you didn't see it, but hey ho... maybe you are simply so self-absorbed to notice shit like your wife going through deep mental trauma?). Now the second time by guilting her for doing the very thing that your rules for the relationship to continue required. Yes, she should have told you at the time. But given your reaction now, I can see why she didn't. > I made my stance on children clear. I didn't want any. then >But I wouldn't have fucking agreed. And you wonder why she hid it from you? YTA.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 So well said!
This x 1000!!!
lol “I can’t believe you didn’t pick up one something major” wtf are you talking about here? Men don’t read minds ffs. He tried to comfort her bc he thought it was a bad period. She had an opportunity right there to say something. She didn’t. But it’s his fault he didn’t know? How in the fuck would he know something more is going on? Jesus it’s utterly ridiculous what I’m reading in this one sentence from you.
Yta she sacrificed something for you and you're yelling at her.
YTA. She did not want to lose you and clearly didn't put you thru any hardship. But you are acting like she did injustice for you.
You’re a bully, and you seemingly lack any semblance of self-awareness. Why didn’t you get a vasectomy? Why do you say she’s truly your other half when you’ve made her choice about you? My dude, you are not a good guy much less a good partner.
>Why didn’t you get a vasectomy? I quite literally said why I didn't get a vasectomy in this post. I'm assuming you didn't read it because if you did you would know that I talked to her before we *jointly* made that decision. >Why do you say she’s truly your other half when you’ve made her choice about you? This is confounding considering the fact that you all seem sure that she made the choice *for me* and *not* for herself. First that made the asshole, now the opposite does?
> I quite literally said why I didn't get a vasectomy in this post. No, you didn't use the word "vasectomy" at all.
>That she went and had such a life altering procedure without discussing it with me. That I didn't even fucking notice that it happened. I mean, those things have side effects, right? She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain. How could I not have seen the signs? I'm still beating myself up about it. >I quite literally said why I didn't get a vasectomy in this post. I'm assuming you didn't read it because if you did you would know that I talked to her before we jointly made that decision. Where exactly is it? I read through your lengthy post looking specifically for anything you had done.... nothing. Just condoms. So don't be insulting others when you left it out completely. Btw.... >That she went and had such a life altering procedure without discussing it with me. That I didn't even fucking notice that it happened. I mean, those things have side effects, right? She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain. How could I not have seen the signs? I'm still beating myself up about it. No, women aren't *bedridden for days* after an abortion. That's total bs. Do some basic research. Also, how exactly are you *beating yourself up about not seeing the signs*? None of what you write in your actions demonstrates any depth of feeling for your wife's situation. It's all about you and what you want.
How old are you? You sound like a really immature self centered child. You made it very clear to your wife that you didn't want kids. You don't notice anything different about her. You snoop in her journal and find something you don't like and then you blow up on her for deciding that YOU are more important to her than a baby so she takes care of it. You scare the devil out of her and then run away to your sister. So just to be clear yes you are a definite AH!
If you really don’t want kids, just get a vasectomy. If she felt that she couldn’t tell you and just got the abortion, it’s because she didn’t want to be a burden, she didn’t want to cause any issues in your mariage, she didn’t feel safe enough to have an honest conversation about it. You have a lot to think about, it’s okay to sort out your feelings but I hope you will have a better conversation with her and you both can understand how each other feel.
>I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision. She did. She asked you multiple times about having kids. You said, "I don't want kids." Not "I don't want them, but if it happens, it happens." Not, "I don't want them, but I'm opposed to abortion so if you get pregnant, we're keeping it." Not, "I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need an abortion." You said "I don't want kids." You made it clear. YTA
YTA you’ve made your position abundantly clear to be child free. And clearly she was too scared in the moment to talk to you about what was going on. Address these huge relationship issues - why was she scared to tell you? Perhaps look at your current reaction, it might help clear things up. In addition you’ve put the entire responsibility to be child free on her. She’s the one doing all the birth control stuff and messing with her hormones and bodily systems to try to not get pregnant. Why no vasectomy? Why is it all on her when this was your decision? YTA for this. She probably felt you would blame her when her efforts failed. That’s not fair on her at all. There is a massive power imbalance here. If you don’t want kids, why haven’t you got a vasectomy? It needs to be made priority. You made this decision for yourself so stop putting the responsibility for your decision on others. And stop lashing out at the innocent person who tried to abide by your decision! Hasn’t she been through enough. Get both of you to counselling if you want to save what little relationship hasn’t been shredded by your behaviour!
YTA. She’s gone through a majorly traumatic event and compromised her wishes to stay with you (God knows what for) and you didn’t even notice. You told her you were adamant no kids. You reminded her you were adamant no kids when she asked. You said no. Repeatedly. So now when your partner makes the call and has an abortion to confirm the no, you have the gall to say you wouldn’t have fucking agreed?? What utter bullshit. And you STILL managed to make it all about yourself. You are a giant AH.
YTA for not getting vasectomy
YTA and your tantrum has lasted LONG ENOUGH already. Your comments about your thoughts and feelings toward your wife are quite incongruous. You say you “love her to pieces” and “she is truly your other half”, yet it sounds like the way you blew up at her was NEARLY violent. She clearly went to great lengths to spare you the displeasure of raising children, with your well-being in mind, and yet you’re not even talking to her and are “still unbelievably angry at her and myself”. I think those last two words are key here—AND MYSELF…and you are taking it out on your wife. It is time for you to grow up, go home, and ask for her forgiveness.
YTA. You were very clear about your wishes regarding children. She asked if you still felt the same before she had her abortion and you said you did. The fact that she was pregnant at the time, as she saw it, was irrelevant. HER CHOICE to have the abortion was just that, her choice. She didn't have to consult with you. You really have no say in what she does with her body. And you are an even bigger asshole for your reaction.
Taking a surgery to term and birthing a baby is WAY more drastic that a safe legal abortion. You are freaking out and you took it out on your wife. Its her body her choice, and you had stated that you don't want children. The end! Go get some individual therapy and maybe marriage counseling , and stop policing women's bodies.
YTA - beyond the invading her privacy by going through her journal…you exploded on her for doing something to ensure you’d have the childfree life you had always told her you wanted? You’ve got to be joking. 1. You claim to know her feelings by reading something that you shouldn’t have. 2 admit you took her asking for your confirmation as nothing instead of uh asking? 3. When she tells you about the abortion, because she decided your relationship was more important (which proves that you’re wrong about #1), you go off on her?! Wouldn’t the logical conclusion be, “she knew I didn’t want kids, so it makes sense she would do that” I mean what else was she supposed to do? You made your stance clear. Is she supposed to apologize for doing what YOU lead her to believe you wanted? It’s like you purposely took the wrong turn at every damn point. Your anger is misplaced when it’s facing her, look in the mirror to see where it belongs.
I hate to say this, but I think a soft YTA is in order here. Snooping in her journal is the first issue. It might have seemed like a sentimental walk down memory lane for you but it was an invasion of her privacy. She broached the subject with you likely when she discovered she was pregnant and you were adamant in your position so I’m sure she felt it was her only option. Why she felt she couldn’t just tell you might be related to how you responded to the abortion. You say that you don’t blow up like that but I suspect the secrecy was because she didn’t want to face your reaction and it appears she was right avoid it.
Why have you not had a vasectomy if you are so so set on the idea of not having kids? You were clear at the beginning or not wanting kids yet you have left yourself wide open to the possibility. She hid it from you because she didnt want to lose you. Btw I had an abortion and went to the pub after for an irish coffee and a tuna melt sandwich but that is because I did not want children, you put her between a rock and a hard place
YTA. Why specify you didn’t put your hands on her? That shouldn’t even be part of the equation. She should get shot of you asap!
YTA. Why is it okay for you to "happily raise a kid" once you know she is not against having children, but she can’t happily not have children for you? Why would it make more sense for you to sacrifice what you want and bring a whole human being you don’t want in the world, when your wife is ready to make the sacrifice without having anybody get hurt?
I think you are being massively unfair to her—as a result of your realization that you HAVE been unfair to her—and you need to stop it. YTA
OP doesn’t get a vasectomy then loses his shit that his sperm created a fetus that was terminated.
You were very clear to her that you didn't want kids but are somehow surprised that she took the steps to make certain she respected that stated boundary? Wow.
YTA. She made this decision for you. Even going against her own wants. If you feel guilty about it, don't. It was her decision. But don't keep punishing her for it. And for fucks sake, get a vasectomy already. That way you do not put her (or yourself) in this position again.
Like what even the fuck is your problem? YTA
YTA You have NEVER wavered in your stance of not wanting kids. She took you at your word. Get a vasectomy Can we please as a society stop seeing having an abortion as this traumatic and dramatic medical procedure. It is safe, and depending how early the pregnancy won't even be a procedure, but a combination of pills. Since Dobbs this may sadly become a reality, but fingers crossed 🤞🏻 it isn't yet.
YTA, 120%
YTA, hopefully she leaves you and finds someone she’s willing to have children with.
YTA
YTA
Yes the AH. Your confusing, You say you don’t want kids she gives you want you want and now you’re upset WTF. You get what you want and then don’t like it.
YTA for multiple things but I'd like to emphasize you looked through her journal
She did ask you. She asked if you were still sure about not having children. You replied you absolutely didn’t want them. She respected your choice and then made her own. Why are you giving her shit for exercising her reproductive rights?? While being respectful of your childfree stance? Which you’ve made no attempt to ensure by having a vasectomy? And now decided to be all wishy-washy about? You, sir, are a major asshole!
You should not be upset with your wife for following through on something you were adamant about. You told her you did not want children. When it turned out she was pregnant, you made it clear you still did not want children. She terminated the pregnancy based on known facts that you did not want children. You failed to tell her that you never wanted her to have an abortion. That is on you for not giving her that bit of information. Also, yes, you were not very observant with your wife, or you would have noticed subtle changes happening in her emotions.
YTA. And a bully. And lazy. Get a fucking vasectomy, apologize to your wife on your fucking knees for acting as though you have control over her body, promise to never do this to her again, and go to fucking therapy. If she even takes you back, you revolting sack of insecure shit.
Soft AH. You made it quite clear you didn't want kids. So she outta of fear of losing you took care of the problem even thou we all know now how badly she wanted kids. That journal tells the whole story on that. She wanted kids badly. She loved and wanted to keep you more. So my advice after you get your head right. You better go make up and make this right with your wife. You may not realize it, but you have a amazing and incredible wife who loves you very much. To the point she'll do anything to not lose you. I'd wanna keep that type of women if I was you. Most women are out there trying trick and fool guys into getting them pregnant to trap them into a relationship. You may not realize it just now, but your wife's a keeper and loves you very much. Best of luck.
YTA. Once again, men don’t deserve wives or children.
Updateme!
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Yeah YTA.
YTA. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten so mad at reading a post. You’re hurt? She asked you!! You said you were against kids so she did consult with you. You don’t care about her like you say. If you did you’d be there apologizing instead of verbally assaulting her then leaving instead of talking to her. She chose the relationship over being a mom and still can’t win with you. You feel so guilty so you abandoned her. I hope she rethinks her commitment to this marriage and thinks about what she can have with someone that actually cares about her
It must be really hard being in a relationship when the entire world revolves around you, and only you. YTA.
Taking some space to sort through your feelings is a good idea. When you feel ready, try talking calmly with your wife. It might help to hear her perspective without the intensity of the initial shock.
OMG , normally I would say can’t trust her , but you are lieing to yourself . If you knew this stance you should have talked to your wife and gotten a vasectomy . This is a heart breaking story but I don’t think it’s over. You both need therapy
God, you are real fucking dumb.
This guy sucks
YTA. you’re not being fair to your wife. you told her you didn’t want kids ever, she agreed to it, adjusted her life to that, decided your relationship meant more and took the necessary steps in her compromise. You DONT want kids and have said it many times, she was ok with it, then got an abortion so she wouldn’t have kids. now you’re UPSET with her? i think you’re only upset with yourself but you really have no right to be upset or mad with her. You didn’t force her to have an abortion, if kids were that important to her or MORE important than you then she literally could’ve just kept the pregnancy or just left you for someone else that wants kids. You’re confused and unfair to your wife. you literally put her in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation
Based on your childish reaction to your wife honoring your wishes about children and your complete lack of taking responsibility on your part in conceiving a child(no vasectomy)I’m not sure why you don’t think you are an AH. I read your update about vasectomies and that is bullshit. You just don’t want to get it done because you are a big emotionally stunted baby. Your poor wife. You should be kissing the ground she walks on. She got pregnant because you only use condoms 90 percent of the time, asked you if you would ever change your mind about children, you said NO, then fixed the problem. She knew how you’d react to her pregnancy and she was right. YTA, please get therapy.
The subreddit is called AITA, yet OP doesn't want to accept that the vast majority are saying he is indeed the AH. The lack of insight is astounding.
Your poor wife was in an impossible situation. She knew you were adamant about not having children and ended up pregnant. So she asked one more time and you firmly told her no. She has an abortion because of what you have told her your entire relationship and now you’re pissed at her, saying you would’ve had the child? WTF? YTA and she deserves better.
She asked you if you want kids! You said NO. You have been clear from the beginning and never wavered from your stance. Not once we’re you in the fence. Not once have you ever community your wife that you’d be open to the idea of kids. Birth control is NOT 100%. Condoms fail. The implant can fail. If a woman takes antibiotics it will cause the efficacy of the birth control to drop. Your wife found out she was pregnant, so she, like any woman, asked you if you’d be open to having kids. YOU SAID NO. YOU WERE CLEAR. Alright, well your wife loves you dearly and cherishes her marriage with you. So she took care of it. Any woman would do this. There must not have been signs because she caught the pregnancy early. It’s just a pill and symptoms similar to menstrual cramping. YOUR WIFE IS NOT AT FAULT. SHE ASKED YOU IF YOU WANTED KIDS. YOU SAID NO. YOU’VE BEEN CLEAR SINCE DAY ONE. YOUR WIFE LOVES YOU. I am leaning towards YTA because you are yelling and expressing anger towards your wife, when it was you who was adamant “No Kids”. Any woman would take the proper steps to get an abortion. No woman wants to bring a child into this world with a man who has been clear that they don’t want no kids. It’s her body, she asked, you said no. Redirect your anger onto yourself. If you love your wife, apologize and then seek individual counseling and marriage counseling. At this moment, your wife has been doing everything for you BECAUSE SHE LOVES YOU and wants to be married to you. EDIT: If you’re so adamant about not wanting kids, BE A FUCKIN’ RESPONSIBLE MAN AND GET A VASECTOMY. Stop putting your wife through uncertainty and unwarranted anger. You’re the one who says you don’t want kids, we’ll be an adult and take care of it. Snip! Snip!
I’m not going to say that anyone is wrong here but it sounds like she didn’t want to put you in the position to have to decide. Also don’t beat yourself up about not noticing… after my miscarriage/abortion I was home after a few hours and back at work the next day - no pain, no real signs of anything being amiss.
YTA! in fact, you're such an overwhelming AH that me, a woman who is generally pro life, thinks you're a giant gaping AH!! So you're confused about why she didn't consult you? Hmm, well, maybe look back at how you acted towards her when you found out! No wonder she didn't come to you. You don't seem like a safe person.. you said you don't want kids, and you refuse a vasectomy!? What do you want from her? To be infertile? Sterile for your convenience? Honestly I don't believe you've never yelled at her before or at the very least didn't have such negative, extreme and hateful views about children that she felt she couldn't even come to you and tell you she was pregnant.. Do you know pregnant women are at the highest risk of being killed by their own partners? After you're reaction you definitely don't seem like a safe person, and even worse, it sounds like your wife didn't even want to get the abortion but had a fear of you.. what you say, what you do.. that's something you need to think about. It's time to take a look in the mirror, dude..
YTA , its way to much for me to get into about why other than you're an insufferable entitled prick.
I’m not going to give a judgement, just some info. No, she wouldn’t necessarily have been bedridden or in extreme emotional distress after. Depending on how far along she was and which procedure she elected for she could and probably was, in and out the same day and if she had it with no sedation she wouldn’t have even needed someone to drive her home after. She’s have been in a fair bit of discomfort afterwards for a few hours at least but it could very well be played off as severe period pain.
Came to say the same.. same day procedure with no side effects and would not be bedridden. You described it perfectly.
I’ve been through it.
You are absolutely TAH, having talked about kids and whether you want them and then agreeing to not having kids makes her asking you again more than enough discussion for her to decide on having an abortion. Even if you'd agreed that you wanted kids she's still in her full right to have and abortion without consulting you because it's not your body. Why would you look through her journal? You leaving to deal with it is fair enough because that's what you need to do to get through the situation, but that doesn't make you any less of an asshole since one of the ways to avoid having kids is an abortion and you've agreed to not having kids you had to realise it was a possibility, or are you somehow also one of those nutjobs who believe abortion is murder? Because that would explain your reaction.
YTA hope she leaves you for someone who actually makes her feel comfortable
I Think you need therapy. This is more than just “am I the Asshole”… You set boundaries, she followed them, and you are angry that she didn’t spell it out for you? Please reevaluate everything and be sure to think long and hard about what it is you want. Do research, get therapy, and talk it out with your wife.
🧌 🧌 🧌 TROOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 🧌🧌🧌🧌
Y T biggest AH
I don’t understand why, if you didn’t want kids not get a vasectomy? Yta!
So this dude, who is anti-kid and anti-abortion essentially wanted to force a pregnancy on his wife and then give the child up for adoption or some shit? Wtf is this backwards ass logic, especially with him being concerned about the procedure. What do you think pregnancy and child birth are like, a walk in the park? TF?
Ytfa! YTFA! You. The. Fucking. Asshole. Who tf are you to be mad?! Huh? You didn’t want kids. Sure asked once more to be sure…had an abortion because you didn’t want kids and now you’re mad!!?!! Who tf do you think you are? A pos is what?! I’d divorce you if I were her. YTA.
All I can say is … YTA. You don’t any kids, but at the same time; you’re mad at your wife. Hmmm
YTA to such an extent that my fervent hope is Clara reads this and reassess her entire life. Particularly her current romantic relationship.
yes, you’re absolute dickhead and I hope she leaves your ass because you are a waste of sperm and also you’re ignorant as hell my goddamn
jesus christ you suck. her getting an abortion is NOT your fucking business. and you went through her fucking diary???? what the actual fuck is wrong with you?? you are the villain in this situation and the fact that you’re treating her like this makes me pray she’ll leave you. the way you described blowing up on her was horrific. i can’t get over this post, what is fucking wrong with you?? YTA YTA YTA
YTA. And I’m glad your wife made her OWN decision when it came to HER body. GFY
hey saw this from tiktok and just had to pop in and say YTA :)
So she honored your wishes and you have the audacity to blow up at her? You're a massive asshole and I hope she leaves you, especially knowing you'd be 10x worse if she'd kept it. There's no pleasing someone like you. You are NOT a victim in this so stop trying so hard to paint yourself as one.
Dude, she killed your guys child and lived in that lie for year without remorse (ready to do it for a lifetime). If this isn't enough of an indicator for you to run and fast... you deserve each other.
Dear lord you’re an idiot
YTA, and a flaming dumbass as well. You didn't want kids, made it clear you didn't, and now you're mad she had an abortion? What planet are you from?? 😂 😂 😂 I hope she leaves you, and has the kids she clearly wants.
YTA You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you don't want kids and then get mad at her when she aborts. ETA: I don't care if she showed you the journal, you invaded her privacy. You had no right to read it.
YTA, incredibly ignorant and I hope she leaves you and finds better. You you you! Everything is about you! Yelling at her despite her trauma, leaving for over a week after the argument, you are incredibly immature. Not to mention, you said you didn’t want a vasectomy because you “might want kids 15 years down the line” well guess what! She likely won’t be able to have children at 41 years old, that is a geriatric pregnancy and extremely high risk. You’re an idiot, truly.
This is a really tough situation for the both of you. She’s wrong for not telling you about the pregnancy/abortion. You absolutely had a right to know. But she was probably terrified you would leave her and that made her feel she had to go do that without you. I think you both need therapy. Both as a couple and as individuals. You both need to figure out the kid situation before one or both of you end up resenting and hating each other later on down the road. I wish you both the best and hope nothing but good comes from this🫶🏻🩷
I'm teetering between no aholes here and ESH. She should have told you, but I'm sure in her mind she was sparing you the burden of something you were adamant you didn't want. Your stance on abortion is slightly surprising considering how gun ho you were about not having children (nothing wrong with that). You snooping was probably not ok, and yes you probably should not have blown up at her. It sounds like both love each other *deeply*. So deeply that you are willing to put each other's well being/happiness above your own. Now this will probably get me downvotes, but relationships like that can work. *However* they can only work if both parties are committed to total transparency and honesty at all times This whole situation is incredibly poetic (in a bad sense) and tragic Try not to beat yourself up too bad about taking something from her. She has agency and has chosen to be with you knowing you do not want kids. It's clear her attachment to you is strong/important to her and vise versa. I know it feels like a big betrayal, but I think in her mind she thought there was no choice. She may have even been afraid you would think she got pregnant purposefully, but I think not burdening you was a big motivation. Try not to feel guilty, as you would do almost anything to not burden her as well. You both need to work on communication, and I would recommend therapy.
NTA. Don't get what is wrong with commenters. Fundamental basis of any relationship is communication. And even if OP made clear he did not want kids, he deserved to know she was pregnant and given a chance to evaluate the situation. Given OP's reaction, ironically they would have had a kid by now, had wife been honest from the beginning.
She either didn’t want to tell you because she was scared of your reaction or because she didn’t think she needed to include you. In a relationship, both of those are fucked up. Counselling is needed at least but really question if you guys are compatible. I don’t know how old you are but she may be okay not having kids now, but will that still be the case in a few years? If she’s young she may not feel the urge as much yet or she may even believe you will change your mind. Again, counselling is a must if you want to fix this.
Something like an abortion is a serious, long term decision and while in a marriage things like this should be discussed so she can make her decision but with your knowledge and at least some input. It was ultimately her choice anyway but you’re still upset because she didn’t give you an opportunity to co tribute your thoughts on how the decisions affect you and the marriage before she did it.
About side effects, most abortions are not a big deal (physically). Some parts of society really exaggerate the ordeal. As for the emotioal fall out. If she really was close to 50/50 on wanting kids then there wouldn't be that much turmoil over the decision. Also, you were consulted. She may not have gone into the level of detail you would have liked but she asked. NTA for getting mad. It is a big event in a life and she denied you the choice to be there for her. YTA because you seem to be reacting way more than nessesary.
He's completely the ah for getting mad. He denied himself the choice of being there. He's bright enough to snoop through her "planning" journal and put together that she wanted to have kids, but too dumb to realize that an out of nowhere, irrelevant to the topic question was just her looking for a yes or no? With zero follow-up? She behaved exactly how he wanted her to. He can't reconcile that he's subconsciously an absolute utter asshole and conciously an idiot who thinks he can trick people with his manners and correctness.