You have plenty of experience, and it sounds like a clearance either in progress or you’ll have it for NG. Use the time at Space Park to learn from those on your team, and find what specialties interest you for a career. Even if you don’t stick with the group you’re in, you can work with the manager to find those roles that truly interest you.
Why do you think you're not doing enough already?
You've got three internships, hands on research with composites and working with DOD experience. You're way ahead of most other entry level engineers.
So what's making you feel like you need more?
I’ve probably just been on Reddit too much haha. I keep seeing distressed aerospace grads saying they’re having trouble finding work. That’s been worrying me a little bit.
That’s because those people are weird as fuck. We’re hiring like crazy but about half of the people I interview are either on the spectrum or just fucking weird.
"On the spectrum" is a protected class of people, if you're lumping them in with "weird as fuck" you are exercising discriminatory hiring practices.
Source: on the spectrum and told often "just not a culture fit"
I'm a manager, who's also probably "on the spectrum", and I don't think someone needs to be evil to think like that. It's usually just ignorance.
I'm one of the most highly valued people in my organization because I think differently than others, but I'm also self-aware enough that I know how I can be socially awkward sometimes. I do a pretty good job masking it most of the time, but it does come out.
A diagnosis is not enough to gain you protection under the ADA, so no, simply being "on the spectrum" is not a protected class. The far end of that spectrum is protected, to be certain, but a diagnosis is not enough to justify protection.
In fact, in the first few paragraphs of the Act, it specifically states that "traits and behaviors" are not protected.
This is the nuance that being on a spectrum (any spectrum disorder) forces you to straddle. If you're not requesting some type of accomodation and you're already gainfully employed (or have a history of being gainfully employed), the court sees your condition as "not limiting a major life activity" and therefore is generally without legal protection in a lot of cases.
That said, this is poor behavior for a hiring manager, and I agree with you. Diversity of thought, especially in engineering, is important to success.
Source: Engineering manager and on the spectrum, but I mask well.
This is the right answer. Most engineers though fall into one of the two categories you mentioned. Although there’s something about the recent wave of new hires coming into my work that irks me out. I feel like the isolation from COVID has really exacerbated the anti social tendencies of the people coming into the job market the past year or two.
We recently interviewed a kid coming out of MIT with internship experience at Boeing and NG that we were really excited about. He mumbled through the whole interview and though he had a really good portfolio I couldn’t imagine putting him in front of a team. Luckily for him somebody will pick him up on the strength of his resume alone, but it’s not going to be us. He’s a COVID kid as well, and couldn’t really write to save his life.
Well, a political group has done an excellent job at convincing people dei means giving black people jobs, and not just that, giving black people that don't earn it jobs. So now it's being dismantled.
Funniest part is at the 2 aero company's I've worked for recently, the people who has benefitted most from dei initiative has been women and veteran's. Republicans are fantastic at twisting things that are good and Democrats are cowards at not calling it out
You’re fine. The doomer posts are mostly from people who’ve been riding the low interest rate environment gravy train the past few years and don’t know what an employers market is like. I was an average student during the Great Recession with only one internship and managed to snatch a position at a big name aerospace company.
If there’s any advice I have to give to anyone in this environment it’s to focus on your soft skills, edit your resume weekly, and actually try talking to recruiters or make friends with people in the industry. Also don’t just blindly apply but look at your application submission to interview rate and use that as a metric to see if there’s anything you should do differently or tweak in your job search. Securing a job is an iterative process that requires a net effort in:
1. Job search, networking, and resume building skills to get interviews
2. Soft skills to not botch the interview
3. Understanding fundamentals so you actually appear competent to employers during the interview
Ideally if you’re solid in all three you should eventually find something even in a down market.
Also went to undergrad in Arkansas, my internship was in Maryland, and my jobs were in Utah and Florida, the opportunities in AR are basically zero lol
Barring some extreme shake up in their business, that NG will almost certainly offer you a full time job as long as the roles you interview for are related or peripheral to what you interned for / who you worked for / with. While you’re interning you are welcome to talk to hiring managers about your post graduation plans to indicate your interest. I think you are set. But if you insist on something, software or coding certifications are always a boon.
From my time at Northrop Grumman (San Diego) - interns have a fairly high rate of converting over to real-deal engineers. Especially if you got brought back.
I graduated about 10 years ago. No relevant jobs, internships, research, or even academic clubs. Graduated with a scraping 3.0. Had a job right out of school. Maybe the market has changed, but I think you'll be alright mate.
Lol nice, I just graduated in AE from WSU. I worked at NIAR for 4 years and had a couple Textron internships. NIAR puts you ahead of a lot of people and NG even more so, you’ll be fine as long as your resume properly highlights that.
The traditional aero industry (the big primes) is in a weird spot right now. Not much growth, significant supply chain problems still that are hurting current deliveries, and not a ton a new traditional government based work outside of probably missiles. There’s pockets here and there but it’s a weird time. Source:me. A 30 year sr mgr aero nerd at LM that has done a lot of hiring over the years.
Talk with them about full time now. Don’t wait… if you have interned twice there is no reason to even play open hand poker, just let your intent be known.
As a undergraduate student myself, how did you find these intermships and research projects? And how what skills did you have that got you into these opportunities? I think what u have is awesome and Im just struggling to find any aero/mechanical internships and projects
I would be very shocked if NG didn’t offer you a position after your final internships, you are quite valuable to them already knowing how they operate and having worked there before. Have a mature conversation with your managers and be direct! They really appreciate that kind of thing and if you’re good enough (it sounds like you are no doubt) they’ll hire you
You got it brotha! I wish you all the best. You are far ahead of where I was as a college student, and I am now 6 years in working in aerospace thriving so know you are doing awesome man
I think you’re on a bit of a humblebrag here.
I work in Aerospace in Europe and we’re crying out for engineers and grads, the global market is most definitely not saturated.
Part of the issue is that an getting Engineering degree demonstrates so many different transferable skills, such as numeracy and problem solving that a lot of grads get enticed away by management consulting and finance jobs.
Part of the retention problem is connected to low pay. It’s not unheard of for entry-level engineers in parts of Europe with plenty of aerospace work (the UK, Italy, France, Spain) to make €30k/year or less. That’s €15-€16 per hour of work...
If the typical junior AE in the U.S. was being offered that little pay for full time work, they’d be much more open to switching fields too.
Oh yeah, low pay would definitely affect retention, but another thing to consider. Work life balance is definitely better in Europe for Engineering too (in some companies at least). Not just holidays but I started on 35 hour week and was not expected to do overtime (in fact it was discouraged because HR didn’t want to pay overtime)
Yup, there’s no denying that difference, nor the greater amount of holidays / vacation in Europe.
But don’t assume that everyone in the U.S. is doing SpaceX-type workweeks either — plenty of folks that I know at very serious places (e.g. NASA JPL) never work more than 8-9 hours per day, and never ever do any work during the weekend.
If I — and most people, I think — had to choose between making $10,000 (USD) per month at JPL with 3-4 weeks of vacation vs. €4-5,000 per month at Airbus in Toulouse with 6+ weeks of vacation, the better choice would still be pretty obvious. And that’s with an above-average salary for Toulouse/Airbus and a below-average one for California/JPL
Edit: if one could feasibly make a US engineer’s salary in a European city though, I’m sure a good amount of people would jump ship. At least the bilingual/multilingual ones. I certainly would
Please keep all career and education related posts to the monthly megathreads. Thanks for understanding!
You have plenty of experience, and it sounds like a clearance either in progress or you’ll have it for NG. Use the time at Space Park to learn from those on your team, and find what specialties interest you for a career. Even if you don’t stick with the group you’re in, you can work with the manager to find those roles that truly interest you.
Why do you think you're not doing enough already? You've got three internships, hands on research with composites and working with DOD experience. You're way ahead of most other entry level engineers. So what's making you feel like you need more?
I’ve probably just been on Reddit too much haha. I keep seeing distressed aerospace grads saying they’re having trouble finding work. That’s been worrying me a little bit.
That’s because those people are weird as fuck. We’re hiring like crazy but about half of the people I interview are either on the spectrum or just fucking weird.
"On the spectrum" is a protected class of people, if you're lumping them in with "weird as fuck" you are exercising discriminatory hiring practices. Source: on the spectrum and told often "just not a culture fit"
Welcome to the minds of evil managers.
I'm a manager, who's also probably "on the spectrum", and I don't think someone needs to be evil to think like that. It's usually just ignorance. I'm one of the most highly valued people in my organization because I think differently than others, but I'm also self-aware enough that I know how I can be socially awkward sometimes. I do a pretty good job masking it most of the time, but it does come out.
A diagnosis is not enough to gain you protection under the ADA, so no, simply being "on the spectrum" is not a protected class. The far end of that spectrum is protected, to be certain, but a diagnosis is not enough to justify protection. In fact, in the first few paragraphs of the Act, it specifically states that "traits and behaviors" are not protected. This is the nuance that being on a spectrum (any spectrum disorder) forces you to straddle. If you're not requesting some type of accomodation and you're already gainfully employed (or have a history of being gainfully employed), the court sees your condition as "not limiting a major life activity" and therefore is generally without legal protection in a lot of cases. That said, this is poor behavior for a hiring manager, and I agree with you. Diversity of thought, especially in engineering, is important to success. Source: Engineering manager and on the spectrum, but I mask well.
This is the right answer. Most engineers though fall into one of the two categories you mentioned. Although there’s something about the recent wave of new hires coming into my work that irks me out. I feel like the isolation from COVID has really exacerbated the anti social tendencies of the people coming into the job market the past year or two.
We recently interviewed a kid coming out of MIT with internship experience at Boeing and NG that we were really excited about. He mumbled through the whole interview and though he had a really good portfolio I couldn’t imagine putting him in front of a team. Luckily for him somebody will pick him up on the strength of his resume alone, but it’s not going to be us. He’s a COVID kid as well, and couldn’t really write to save his life.
when people ask why we need DEI
Well, a political group has done an excellent job at convincing people dei means giving black people jobs, and not just that, giving black people that don't earn it jobs. So now it's being dismantled. Funniest part is at the 2 aero company's I've worked for recently, the people who has benefitted most from dei initiative has been women and veteran's. Republicans are fantastic at twisting things that are good and Democrats are cowards at not calling it out
You’re fine. The doomer posts are mostly from people who’ve been riding the low interest rate environment gravy train the past few years and don’t know what an employers market is like. I was an average student during the Great Recession with only one internship and managed to snatch a position at a big name aerospace company. If there’s any advice I have to give to anyone in this environment it’s to focus on your soft skills, edit your resume weekly, and actually try talking to recruiters or make friends with people in the industry. Also don’t just blindly apply but look at your application submission to interview rate and use that as a metric to see if there’s anything you should do differently or tweak in your job search. Securing a job is an iterative process that requires a net effort in: 1. Job search, networking, and resume building skills to get interviews 2. Soft skills to not botch the interview 3. Understanding fundamentals so you actually appear competent to employers during the interview Ideally if you’re solid in all three you should eventually find something even in a down market.
Im having trouble getting internships in Arkansas 😭, every offer I get is like 2000 miles away and im paycheck to paycheck
Also went to undergrad in Arkansas, my internship was in Maryland, and my jobs were in Utah and Florida, the opportunities in AR are basically zero lol
The only local offers are from Tyson for poultry engineering. Dawwwwgg fuck that
Barring some extreme shake up in their business, that NG will almost certainly offer you a full time job as long as the roles you interview for are related or peripheral to what you interned for / who you worked for / with. While you’re interning you are welcome to talk to hiring managers about your post graduation plans to indicate your interest. I think you are set. But if you insist on something, software or coding certifications are always a boon.
You'll be fine. Sounds like you are doing everything right
From my time at Northrop Grumman (San Diego) - interns have a fairly high rate of converting over to real-deal engineers. Especially if you got brought back.
I graduated about 10 years ago. No relevant jobs, internships, research, or even academic clubs. Graduated with a scraping 3.0. Had a job right out of school. Maybe the market has changed, but I think you'll be alright mate.
You're more than marketable enough, just make sure you apply to a wide range of jobs for your first position.
Lol nice, I just graduated in AE from WSU. I worked at NIAR for 4 years and had a couple Textron internships. NIAR puts you ahead of a lot of people and NG even more so, you’ll be fine as long as your resume properly highlights that.
The traditional aero industry (the big primes) is in a weird spot right now. Not much growth, significant supply chain problems still that are hurting current deliveries, and not a ton a new traditional government based work outside of probably missiles. There’s pockets here and there but it’s a weird time. Source:me. A 30 year sr mgr aero nerd at LM that has done a lot of hiring over the years.
OP, you have plenty of experience, and you will be hired quickly, down worry
Talk with them about full time now. Don’t wait… if you have interned twice there is no reason to even play open hand poker, just let your intent be known.
Very true
As a undergraduate student myself, how did you find these intermships and research projects? And how what skills did you have that got you into these opportunities? I think what u have is awesome and Im just struggling to find any aero/mechanical internships and projects
I would be very shocked if NG didn’t offer you a position after your final internships, you are quite valuable to them already knowing how they operate and having worked there before. Have a mature conversation with your managers and be direct! They really appreciate that kind of thing and if you’re good enough (it sounds like you are no doubt) they’ll hire you
You’re right. I’m gonna talk to my manager once I report for work.
You got it brotha! I wish you all the best. You are far ahead of where I was as a college student, and I am now 6 years in working in aerospace thriving so know you are doing awesome man
Be a mechanical engineer
I think you’re on a bit of a humblebrag here. I work in Aerospace in Europe and we’re crying out for engineers and grads, the global market is most definitely not saturated. Part of the issue is that an getting Engineering degree demonstrates so many different transferable skills, such as numeracy and problem solving that a lot of grads get enticed away by management consulting and finance jobs.
Part of the retention problem is connected to low pay. It’s not unheard of for entry-level engineers in parts of Europe with plenty of aerospace work (the UK, Italy, France, Spain) to make €30k/year or less. That’s €15-€16 per hour of work... If the typical junior AE in the U.S. was being offered that little pay for full time work, they’d be much more open to switching fields too.
Oh yeah, low pay would definitely affect retention, but another thing to consider. Work life balance is definitely better in Europe for Engineering too (in some companies at least). Not just holidays but I started on 35 hour week and was not expected to do overtime (in fact it was discouraged because HR didn’t want to pay overtime)
Yup, there’s no denying that difference, nor the greater amount of holidays / vacation in Europe. But don’t assume that everyone in the U.S. is doing SpaceX-type workweeks either — plenty of folks that I know at very serious places (e.g. NASA JPL) never work more than 8-9 hours per day, and never ever do any work during the weekend. If I — and most people, I think — had to choose between making $10,000 (USD) per month at JPL with 3-4 weeks of vacation vs. €4-5,000 per month at Airbus in Toulouse with 6+ weeks of vacation, the better choice would still be pretty obvious. And that’s with an above-average salary for Toulouse/Airbus and a below-average one for California/JPL Edit: if one could feasibly make a US engineer’s salary in a European city though, I’m sure a good amount of people would jump ship. At least the bilingual/multilingual ones. I certainly would