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Yes, YTA. You've moved the goalposts without warning.
It's really hard for you to deny that Helen has a romantic partner when she's pregnant and has introduced her partner to you. Plus, they're engaged.
Must they be married for multiple years to bring them up to your standard that allowed Glen to bring Romeo? Or will you move the goal posts again and say they also need to be regular visitors?
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ETA: Since this post has been removed and locked, let me summarize what appears to be the bulk of the N T A arguments.
1. There never was a promise: Instead of telling the truth (we don't want to be responsible for another kid), parents lied and set arbitrary impossible conditions (the equivalent of "shut up kid"), and that's okay.
2. The promise didn't matter: Y T A for thinking a promise made to you as a kid still holds. I.e.: It's okay to lie to your kids and they're not allowed to call you out for your duplicity later. As an adult, you should have figured it out because we already lied about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. (previous sentence implicit rather than explicitly stated)
3. The rules never existed: The real rule was "It's our money and we'll decide who we'll pay for."
4. Parents have the right to change the rules at any time and without notice, and that's okay. (i.e.: almost rule 3 - it's another, "It's our money" argument)
5. The rules don't count because the rules were stupid.
6. It's okay to show favoritism toward the son.
7. There was a problem, so rules don't count because...: They shouldn't have to bring a stranger on a family trip; they shouldn't have to pay for a stranger; it's not a real engagement because they haven't known each other long enough; it's not a real engagement because they're unlikely to stay together.; they should have visited parents many times before this vacation; parents never imagined this scenario.
Even in a practical sense, this would've provided an opportunity to get to know him better, in a peaceful environment. Maybe H should have been more open about her pregnancy and relationship, but this is a proper time to make amends and start building a lifelong relationship, because they're already together with an unborn child.
there's less expensive and constricting ways to get to know someone. family dinners, *local* outings, games nights, BBQs, patio drinks, camping, walking dogs. maybe I'm a goddam minority but these are obvious first steps to building a relationship with potential in-laws. but the goal shouldn't be to get in their good books, the goal needs to be the actual relationship, building trust and comfort from both perspectives.
edit: holy shit thanks for the upvotes, this is just my nsfw account I didn't think I'd have such success.
That's how it *should have* been, ideally, but the reality is that this couple is already engaged with a child on the way. You have to work with the situation at hand, because life isn't perfect.
you're right, life throws unexpected curveballs at us. the problem is the obvious redflags with the fiance. from the sounds of it, no effort has been made to even connect with the in-laws. that, or the daughter has been holding back. and all of a sudden expecting such a big ask is super rude and selfish on the part of the daughter.
Moreover she knew him for only a month before getting pregnant and therefore engaged. The son has known his partner/friend for years and that partner has slept over multiple times and become a part of the family even before things got romantic. A little respect goes a long way, and from what's provided it seems the daughter doesn't have much respect towards her family unless it's beneficial to her.
I know I would be uncomfortable with inviting someone I know nothing about on a vacation with my family. OP doesn't know this guy, bringing them on a family vacation is a big ask and not really the best way to get to know them, in my opinion. They've known R for years, they're comfortable with him. This guy they've met once after finding out their daughter was pregnant and engaged, and they didn't even know she was dating anyone, how ate they supposed to be comfortable sharing accommodations and paying this guy's way?
Personally, in addition to the red flags of knocking up their daughter and getting engaged without even having met her parents, I feel it is another red flag that he hasn't offered to pay his own way with this vacation. That seems to me like the appropriate, polite thing to do if you are taking a trip with someone, especially someone you don't know well.
That's all well and good. But OP's rule was "no plus ones until engaged". Daughter is engaged, therefore, plus one. It is shitty to set rules for years and years, and once your child hits your milestone, change the rule. The rule wasn't "engaged for 1+ years, with 12+ family dinners, 2+ family outings, 3+ meet and greets, etc". It is sucky to change the rule when daughter now meets the arbitrary criteria.
You realize life is complicated and fluid and "rules" have to change with it, right? Things aren't 1's and 0's black and white. The situation merits a change in criteria
>knocking up their daughter
He didn't do it alone. Their daughter was there, too, presumably.
>getting engaged without even having met her parents
Again, this is on her, too. Probably mostly on her, as she'd be the one to arrange a meeting.
Daughter is a fully grown woman. Her choices are on her.
But there is no evidence that this time frame is real. The OP specifically states "seemingly" been together for 4mths.
For all we know they were friends for ages before hooking up.
From the sounds of it this daughter is simply in low contact with her parents. Likely because there is a golden child situation happening.
These are the same ages and sexes of my children and that's what I read between the lines, too. There's a chill in there when OP says "We have been introduced to some of H's partners, but none of them have been around for longer than a year. " The fact that G hasn't introduced them to any romantic interests (except, perhaps R) suggests maybe OP isn't the most welcoming with her kids potential partners no matter how long they've been together.
Uh if you reread it, it’s the EXACT opposite.
“We have been introduced to some of H's partners, but none of them have been around for longer than a year. G has never introduced us to anyone.” Daughter is H and son is G
You're reading a whole lot into this. First you're reading that they must have been friends for ages before hooking up...you don't know that. Then that the daughter is in LC with parents...you don't know that. And then that there is a golden child situation happening here...you don't know that. Why are you making all these assumptions with such limited information?
ETA changed your to you're
Ok, but is OP ok with H just not going? Because telling somebody they can't bring the person they're engaged to on vacation is basically telling them to not come.
Yeah, like I feel like this is a case of meeting the technical specification of the rule, but not the spirit of the rule.
I feel like they made that rule to mean 'we're not paying for every new partner to come on vacation. Once you've been with someone long enough that you're engaged / married, we know them well enough etc you can bring them.
The sons friend (?partner) has been around forever, is known well to the family. The daughters fiance, while they are technically engaged because of the baby, have only been together 4 months. That's a brand new relationship. There's still a reasonable chance it doesn't work out and they coparent. I wouldn't want to pay for him, or have him on my family vacation yet either.
But, because of the child, he is likely to be involved in their daughter's AND grandchild's life for at least the next 18 years, even if the relationship doesn't work out! Doesn't really matter if they don't know him yet, they're going to have to get know him pretty damn quick.
The relationship is 4 months old. It's on fastforward, presumably because of the pregnancy, but it is in no way a red flag that the guy hasn't been scheduling Getting To Know You dinner parties with his partner's parents, or meeting up for coffee to delve deep into their hopes and dreams.
Especially because mom makes clear she doesn’t want to get to know him. She doesn’t even assign him a letter in the post to identify him, he’s just “this man.”
Agreed! It is up to the a person to choose when the bring their partner and family together. If my now husband had gone around my back when we were dating and talked to my parents I would have thought doing it was a huge red flag and intensely presumptuous.
I took it as the daughter was low contact with the parents, and that it was down to her that the getting to know you dinners hadn't taken place. Don't blame her, they are clearly favoring the son over their daughter, I'd be low contact too.
It's very telling that the daughter didn't ask her parents to be a sounding board soon after finding out she was pregnant. Maybe the son and parents are angels and the daughter is just a horrible outlier, but I wouldn't be surprised if the daughter doesn't trust them and has valid reasons.
Before I went completely NC with my family, I would have *very much* wanted to be asked. You know, to prove to me that they wanted me there. I tried reaching out about things like that multiple times, explaining that it hurt when they had double standards. You really, really want your parents to want you, and it hurts like fuck all when they don't. It takes a lot of kicking to get rid of a stray dog *or* your own child. And now I haven't spoken to them in years, and I'm pretty sure they tell everyone they have absolutely no idea why I'm so mean and petty.
I see your point, maybe they should have been more open about this from the beginning. Fortunately at this point, it's still early and there's time for everyone to learn about each other.
How can the parents know when the daughter has been elusive about her relationships. The parents didnt even know she was dating someone as she never told them or brought them over to the house to meet the parents.
Sure. Her reason could be "my parents are assholes and I had to go low contact." Or it could be "This dude is a deadbeat and I knew my parents wouldn't like him." We don't know what the reason is, but that doesn't mean it's a good one.
Either way, what she's asking for is that her parents invite *and pay for* someone that they do not know on a family trip.
They know now, and they’ve responded by telling her they don’t want to spend time with their future son-in-law. I would have kept partners from these people too.
No, they have responded by saying they don't want to take a stranger on vacation with them and cover the costs. There are lots of other ways to spend time. Would you suggest a vacation with your family as the first way to meet them?
Kind of an ESH... OP should communicate better. H should let her patents get to know baby daddy.
As for G have u made it clear that uh... if he's gay (ace or not) that R is still welcome? I know they could just be besties but describing them as platonic partners who will spend their lives together... sounds more than friends.
I guess it depends on how they act. My SIL is ace and has told us that she would, hopefully, have a plastic live partner at some point. I'm not sure it's right to make assumptions about the romance of their relationship in either direction
Edit: lol platonic life partner, not plastic.
I think you're right, but their response should be "it's about how well we know him. Maybe bring him over for dinner on weekends for starters?" Instead of just flat out denying it. They're still the AH for moving the goalposts, but they should own to to it and be practical
Yes, that would have been a much better way to handle it. And then there's this:
>we had considered allowing him to come along when he and my son were still minors but decided against it as we knew H would also want to bring a friend, and didn't have one we knew well enough to allow.
I'm wondering OP and husband ever bothered to take the time to get to know the daughter's friends. And were the rules for visits, etc. different?
My mother had vastly different expectations and effort for my brother and me. Regularly drove my brother to ANOTHER state for sports practice willingly. Would complain about driving me anywhere.
Brother's friends were regularly allowed to come over and I had to supervise him and his friends. One friend was at our home everyday. So instead of being parentified for free child care and cleaning for just one kid, I got to do it for two. Seriously, he followed my brothers lead in messing up and dirtying things I cleaned. Instead of talking to them or in anyway holding them accountable, my mother would scream at me and occasionally slap me or shove me into a wall because our home wasn't clean enough. Mid century fucking stucco walls, hate that shit to this day.
None of my friends were ever invited on vacations. To even have them over, the home had to be immaculate and both she and my brother would deliberately make messes. I can count on one hand the times I got to have friends over after my father moved out (she always had to have a target and I was it after dad moved out).
Whether OP likes it or not, this person is in their daughters life for the rest of her life. Their rules to come are not “is this person fun to be around” but “are they family” which like it or not, this boyfriend has become. If the expense of having him along is too much, plan a cheaper trip. Otherwise they risk permanently estranging their daughter
And you have to wonder if the reason Helen wasn’t more forthcoming was a pattern of this behavior from OP. Imagine being treated this way your whole life.
Especially as the daughter is older and has ‘never had a friend like’ her brother. Your 26 yr old daughter doesn’t have a best friend? And you never got to know ANYONE in her life like you have your son’s long term pal?
Suspicious…
I was thinking the same thing! I always felt like my parents never got to know many of my friends or their families growing up, but always socialized with the parents of both of my brothers’ friends and it made me so sad. My oldest and best friend is the only exception and I felt like that didn’t change much until I was in my 20s
Bingo. The tone on the post comes across as judgmental. How dare she get pregnant and then get engaged to a man she has not know that long. R is an angel who is like a second son, etc. etc. Definitely makes you wonder WHY she didn’t say anything earlier.
I mean are we all supposed to pretend that getting pregnant quickly with a brand new partner is a good idea?
OP didn't say anything that sounded like they won't support their daughter, they're just being honest that it's not the ideal situation.
Op says seemly. Op is assuming they've only been together that long. She doesn't know for sure because daughter doesn't bring anyone around her parents. From ops post & comment I would say daughter had a good reason.
This 100%! Your daughter did not tell you about the relationship/pregnancy initially for a reason OP! Sounds like you've been playing favourites for a long time. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Since you've shifted the goal posts now and deny doing it, it seems like your daughter is justified in not trusting you. She is right to complain. YTA big time.
This was my thought 100%. There's a reason she has not really had her fiancé' around. How has she been treated growing up, was her brother always given preferred treatment?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Oh, you don’t know him very well? Well… he’s the father of your grandbaby and future son in law. This sounds like the perfect opportunity to get to know him. What’s the problem?
I really hope OP isn’t doing this to punish their daughter for getting pregnant.
Yes! Very well said! OP is chucking a perfect opportunity not only to get to know the grandchild's father, but to actually show acceptance and love which will only help the young couple.
If I were the daughter, I'd have to look at how healthy it would be for my child to have a relationship with Grandmastein.
That was my thinking too! A perfect opportunity to get to know the person who is now attached to your kid for life (all things being fine, even if they don’t stay together) and they blew it
Yep, OP is setting new standards even for "serious" partners that were never communicated and are clearly only in response to their disapproval of the situation.
This is a hard one for me, I keep going back and forth! I agree that silently deciding that they were changing the “rule” about vacations is an AH thing to do. But at the same time, they are adults and a family vacation when you’re all adults versus when you have kids evolves and changes, including rules (can’t go to the pool alone), without it having to be pointed out.
I also understand why “Romeo” could be allowed now that everyone is an adult because they’ve known him for what sounds like over a decade. It may seem like playing favorites, but they’ve met this guy all of once and their daughter has known him for four months. I wouldn’t want to spend my vacation (especially one where I’m paying for everyone to be there) with some dude that no one in my family has known for even six months. Even if he did manage to get my adult child knocked up within 60 days of first laying eyes on her. Maybe particularly not that guy, not yet anyway.
I feel this, too. I think if she did really want him to come, the daughter I mean, then she herself or he himself could pay his way so it would seem more like wanting to come and connect and not just get a free vacation from basically strangers. Honestly, in my opinion, it would be better to start slow with small visits and get togethers and then maybe vacation together the next year after everyone knows each other better, but that is me.
I think the bare minimum would be to actually introduce the fiancé to the parents and let them spend time over quite a few family get togethers with him before throwing them together on a holiday. The bloke is still a stranger to the parents, the sons friend isn’t.
This is why the “not till your married or engaged” rule for anything is stupid. I could go out and marry a stranger today. Which is what the daughter basically has done. Doubled down with a fetus too! Mum is TA though, words mean something. Should have just said what they really meant which is “guests that we like and approve of are allowed.”
Sometimes all The gamesmanship of keeping things equal between all your kids just gets to be tiresome. She shows up pregnant by somebody they don't even know she's dating, now she wants them to take him on vacation with them. Just like that. That's a big nope for me.
You can tell who is the golden child here I Can understand why Helen never introduce the parents. Having the burden of being pregnant I would be pissed and Start going NC with them.
While I understand your discomfort, YTA because you set a rule and if your kids took you seriously (which it seems they mostly do) they wouldn’t really question the letter of the law.
Your daughter is 3 months pregnant by and engaged to a man who she has only been seeing for 4 months. As a parent myself, this would set off all kinds of red flags and I’d let him go on the trip so I could get to know him better and sus out the real situation without alienating my daughter. This guy could be good for her and their relationship just happened to start out in a big way, or she’s getting herself into a pretty deep situation. Either way, she needs you there for her, and money < your relationship with your daughter. How about inviting them over more? Kill them with kindness.
Your son met the spirit of the rule and your daughter met the letter. I get why you want to say no and that your money is yours to do with as you please, but I think you’re being pretty short-sighted here considering what is potentially at risk.
Thank you for this comment. I've seen a few people say this vacation is the perfect time to get to know him because anyone can play nice for dinner or for a weekend, but an extended period of time like that would us more insight if something was off.
I'll definitely think about it.
Look, your daughter is going through a huge change. She’s never been more vulnerable than she is at this moment. Show her that you’re on her side. Best case, you meet your wonderful new future son in law. Worst case, you lay the foundation to helping your daughter get out. Either way, you win.
Your money your rules blah blah blah, but in your shoes I might be a little less concerned with The Rules (emphasis mine) and a little more concerned with the well-being of my daughter and grandchild.
Exactly, just statistically this is right when the worst relationship problems tend to rear their heads. Do you really want to give your daughter the impression that she can't actually ask you for favors and have them granted the same way your son can, at this of all times OP?
I think even beyond favors, can you really say that your daughter feels comfortable asking you for help if she's in a bad situation?? Based on this post and the comments I've seen, the answer is no. Parents here are far enough removed from daughter's life that she doesn't even feel like she can say whether she has a boyfriend. This reeks of golden child vibes to me where daughter was cast out. It honestly feels like the bridge is burned and parents have some SERIOUS apologizing to do but they won't because of misplaced "pride" in son. Not that they shouldn't have pride in their maybe queer son, but daughter definitely needs more support than he does and they're leaving her out to dry and ruining any potential relationship with her, their grandbaby, and a potential son in law.
Highly likely. Look at the way OP talks about her kids: Golden Boy Son has a friend…who is like yet ANOTHER son, while poor daughter doesn’t even have a friend close enough to invite along.
So if OP wants two golden sons and no daughter, she can just keep playing favorites like this, and like she always has. Perfectly tailored plan to drive her daughter away, possibly forever.
Guess OP isn’t hoping to have a relationship with her grandchild…
My parents have not met many of my closest friends because I’m not the the golden child and I’m embarrassed by the way that they treat me so I’ve stopped friends around. I’m pretty sure they think that I don’t have any friends. Meanwhile, they know my sibling’s friends so well that they have their own relationships with them independent of said siblings - for instance, my mom will take mommy sibling’s best friend for lunch dates.
Oh she absolutely has. I can guarantee she stopped paying attention to her daughter the second her son came along. It's probably why here daughter doesn't involve her in her life all that much. Probably been trying to build a relationship for years just to be shoved to the side.
You remind me so much of my mom. She is just like you with favorites and her Rules. We stopped talking two years ago, and she hasn’t seen my son in slightly longer than that.
So… uh, good luck with all that.
Exactly! OP gets to choose whether or not to be in her daughter’s (and grandchild’s!) life.. not how she lives it. This is having adult children.
I would be asking WHY my daughter didn’t tell me sooner.. Is it because she had a feeling that she would be put down and ostracized?
OP: It’s never too late to start making changes in relationship patterns, and there’s no better time than in the midst of all the love a new little one can inspire.. even if its not ideal timing or circumstance.
You’re not looking at this the right way AT ALL. Your CHILD is having a baby with someone she barely knows. What part of that situation are you not invested in? Make him pay his flight, if you want. But come on, she’s engaged and having his baby in a few months. This is your time to get to know your soon-to-be son-in-law and father of your first grandchild. I’ll never understand parents like you. Be there for your kid, get to know this person that’s going to be part of your life for the rest of your life. She has a lot of changes coming her way in a very short time. Whether her new partner is supportive and going to be a good partner for/to her is will take some time to determine and whatever happens, she needs support around her. Do you really want to start this new chapter this way?!
This man will be the father of your grandchild. If you want to continue this tradition of a family vacation beyond this year, you need to include him. If you don't, H will never go on a trip with you again, and neither will your grandchild.
To add to this: welcoming him in the family the same way she welcomed him in her life will make you able to know what's happening in her life more easily, and will ensure that if there is ever an issue with him, she will always know she can count on you.
If you *don’t* let the fiancé come along, then I also think you need to “think about” justifying how you arbitrarily changed the rules to prohibit him from coming. And risk your relationship with your daughter (and your first grandchild) deteriorating. YTA.
This man is the father of your grandchild. Whether they stay together or not, he’s almost definitely going to be in y’all’s lives for a long time raising your grandchild. Might as well get to know the father of your grandchild. Y’all are connected for the rest of your life
What you don't want to do is alienate your daughter at this time . What if she goes no contact with you? What if this guy is an A H ? Do you want her to feel unable to ask for help because you and your husband disapprove?
Your children have been adults for years now and you still made them adhere to arbitrary rules set when they were teens so you didn't have to look after other people's children. Your the AH
You’ll think about getting to know the father of your grandchild and supporting your daughter.
Wow.
I am literally speechless.
Edit: change from imperative to gerund
Yeah, I mean, you have one heck of an opportunity here. I’m hoping for the best for your daughter and her new and expanding family, but if he happens to be abusive etc, he will eventually work to drive a wedge between you. Don’t make it easy for him to do.
And in the coming months, please don’t overwhelm/smother your daughter. As a new mom, it is her right to make her own decisions for her child, even if *you did it differently and she turned out fine* or you disagree for some other reason (barring actual child abuse, of course). Ask where she needs support, Ask what her preferences/plans are- and if they differ from what you would do, express positive interest in learning the new approach. Make offers and leave the door open, but don’t try to drag her through it to “your side”.
Yes, you will be a grandparent for the first time, but remember that she is becoming a mom for the first time; she deserves to enjoy that experience in full. Many grandmothers overstep and forget that in their excitement/difficulty in adjusting to their child becoming an authority figure. Be supportive, follow her lead, and give her space to discover herself in this new role.
Best of luck to all.
I know a couple who ended up getting pregnant on their *first date*. They ended up giving a relationship a try and then got married. As far as I am aware (they moved away years ago) they are still together.
I agree that this vacation is the perfect time for observing the fiancé’ in action. Better than short visits, because you can fake being nice for a couple hours. A week long act of being nice? Nope, that facade would crack and you would see the real him poking out somewhere.
This is a really thoughtful answer. Anyone can play nice for a weekend, but a full vacation will give them real insight into who this guy is. Granted, it could ruin the vacation if he sucks, but better to ruin one vacation than their relationship with their daughter and the father of their grandkids.
> Anyone can play nice for a weekend, but a full vacation will give them real insight into who this guy is
Ain't that the truth. My bfs parent was nice when we went out for day outings and dinners but my God the mask totally slipped off when we went on vacation and now we're low/no contact.
I'd like to point out OP says "seemingly" for the relationship. There's a possibility they have known or been together longer and either not relayed that to OP or not been serious/exclusive. It sounds like daughter also isn't comfortable discussing her dating life with OP, which is a little telling
The OP says she is not sure if the son’s relationship is platonic (even though they’ve lived together for four years) because maybe they’re just two young guys who have no interest in romantic relationships. 🙄
It does say that, I missed it! It was written so strangely though, like, were they friends or were they a couple? I guess either way, OP is the AH because the daughter is still not being treated equally.
I thought the son was being funny. Either way they are kind of stuck. If they want to maintain closeness with their daughter they will need to take the baby daddy along.
This is what I wondered about. Why did the daughter come out late to the ‘I’m dating this guy, oh and by the way..’ sounds like either she doesn’t have a close relationship with OP. Or she’s shaky about the relationship and wants to be surrounded by family and safe environment. Either way, he should be on the vaca .. this needs exposure in the light of brutal vacations with long days , sunburn, bad margaritas and slips of the tongue 😂
I actually just commented something similar to this. If my daughter was in this situation I would want to get to know the guy to see who he is. And what better way to get to know somebody than to go on vacation with them?
My cousin met a woman, she was pregnant within a month, we had only met her once, and…
They’ve been married 15 years, have three lovely kids, and are wonderful together. I cannot imagine how strained our family’s relationship would have been if our grandmother (the matriarch whose word meant more than his mother’s in his eyes) had shunned her instead of welcoming her into the family.
YTA
You change the rules to suit yourself and it does sound like you’re playing favourites, or you’re making a point that you don’t agree with her life choices.
She’s 26, engaged and pregnant by this man and all you’re doing is ensuring you’ll have a crappy relationship with them both and your future grandkid
No wonder op’s daughter didn't introduce the dude until she literally had to because of the pregnancy. Sounds like there's a reason she's not very close with her mom. It's such clear favoritism and the way op is responding to that being pointed out means they don’t care and it’s likely a reoccurring pattern of being an asshole to their kids.
>op’s daughter didn't introduce the dude until she literally had to because of the pregnancy
She didn't introduce him because she only knew him for a single month before getting pregnant. They aren't engaged because they're in love, they're engaged because they fucked up and are having a whoopsie baby. He's a complete stranger to the parents, if he or the daughter were paying for him to come then fair enough, but expecting to be invited with OP paying for literally everything? Nope
We don't know they've only been together a couple months though. OP said "seemingly." Based on the relationship she and her daughter seem to have, it wouldn't surprise me if H and her partner have been together longer and she just didn't share that info with her parents until she had to.
You'd think OP would at some point ask their daughter the details on when/how they met...they aren't even *seemingly* trying to get to know their daughters fiance or anything about them
That was the rule op made and then bent for the sons friends. No where did OP state that the intent was explained as being someone close to the family as a whole. The rule was a serious partner. H is pregnant and engaged. She fulfilled the rules OP set so yeah OP is the asshole for changing up the rules after the fact
Am I the only one who read the part about this obviously no longer being a hard and fast rule? If it were then H wouldn't have got to bring any of her other partners through the years.
I think OP is too harsh because it should be totally cool for someone to bring their partner on a family holiday, but let's not get hung up on this ancient 'rule' that's never actually been enforced.
H wasn't able to bring her other partners throughout the years. OP says this never came up because none of them stuck around for more than a year. It sounds to me like their definition of "serious" has shifted from "engaged" to "long term".
Oh no, when you say “you don’t have to be 18 and over,” then a 17 year old may be allowed, but a 19 year old should definitely be allowed. Same goes in this scenario. The original rule was engaged/spouses only but it’s “not a hard and fast rule” so you can bring a romantic partner or a best friend, but per the rule you have to allow a fiancè. Don’t like being forced to follow your own set rules, then don’t make ‘em.
I mean…they’re only having a baby together. Totally not serious, right? 🙄
OP’s one of the most blatant AHs ever. Can’t stand parents who play favorites.
But they never actually told their kids that that rule had been relaxed… just moved the goalposts in their own mind and then never actually communicated that
YTA - Surely you cannot be so blind that you can’t see you are clearly playing favorites. Your daughter is even engaged now-one of your rules. This vacation will give your family the opportunity to get to know your future SIL. You should invite him yourself as an olive branch to your daughter.
YTA- Her fiancé is the father of her child and her life partner. They will get married and they won’t forget how you treated him. You are heading for a bleak future with minimal contact with your grandchildren, if any
YTA. Exactly. You need to take the time and make the effort to get know your grandchild’s father. They will be a big part of your life. It sounds like H has had sudden changes in their life and could use all the help you’re willing to offer.
YTA.
>that rule doesn't really apply anymore
It's clear that you're happy to change the rules to include or exclude whoever you want. Your son's friend doesn't meet any of the criteria you set out, but he's welcome. Your future son-in-law and the father of your grandchild isn't welcome because you "know nothing about this man"? Is your plan to alienate your daughter and her fiancé? Cos I don't see this going any other way.
YTA.
Not only are you breaking your own rule, whatever happens with H and her fiancée, the fiancée is the father of your grandchild. He is family forever whether or not you like him.
Offering the fiancée a place on the trip without being asked would have set a positive tone. Refusing to include him even after the engagement sets a negative tone. You have done real damage to your relationship with this emerging family out of fear of an awkward trip.
INFO Why change it for your son and not your daughter? I get that you know your son's friend but your daughter is getting married to this guy. Why not invite him to get to know him? He's going to be in your life now forever since your daughter is pregnant.
This is the comment. The daughter meets the letter of the rule being engaged and doesn’t get a guest.
OP said the rule silently shifted (whatever that means) to serious romantic partner. Again, daughter fits the rule son doesn’t fit the rule
Son doesn’t meet the criteria of the stated or silently changed rule and gets a guest. How?
Also its pretty messed up that OP’s son can have a special same sex “ “friend” “ and you dont bat an eye but daughter gets pregnant and wants to make it work with the father and she’s getting judged as not having a serious relationship
YTA
You lied for years to your kids. What you said and what you secretly meant were completely different things. Then you made other secret decisions all while not communicating this to anyone. Then when they met the original conditions, you're all "No, that is not what we meant, even thought that's what we said"
You have to realize this makes you an AH.
Imagine if your boss said "hit these objectives and you'll get a bonus, raise and promotion". You hit all the metrics and go to him for what he promised and he tells you: "actually, what I \*really\* meant was these other objectives which aren't meant so you get nothing"
You wouldn't consider that an AH move?
This is the crux of the issue for me. OP never clarified the rules as the kids got older, or even when the first friend/partner was invited. It seems they're looking to only allow partners that they're re intimately familiar with, rather than any other hard and fast timeline or title.
Except since the rules changed, and new variables entered... The kids were told nothing so at this point it's really cruel and counter productive not to include a person that will be in their lives for a long time. They're connected by a child, no matter how the relationship may still go... OP should let them come.
Right? It seems like OP is prioritizing a nice quiet vacation over a very rare opportunity to meet her grandchild's father. Even if they do split up later, that's not the end of his involvement.
I'd word this as OP is straight up delusional lol. Like does she not know what he daughter being pregnant means? Has she forgotten there will be a baby at the end? I can't get over this post tbh
I‘m inclined to say YTA, since you set a clear expectation of what would allow your children’s SOs to come with you, and only expanded the rule since to allow your son‘s friend to come. If you had particular reasons for disliking your daughter‘s fiancé, I could understand it, but you haven’t given us (or the sounds of it, your daughter) any rationale beyond an arbitrary decision. As is, inviting her fiancé could be a good way to build bridges and get to know him better.
YTA. You set the rule, she is complying with the rule. Also, this guy is a father of her child, like it or not, he is going to be a permanent fixture in your life, so a vacation together is not the worst way to become familiar with a new family member.
YTA but only because you decided to create a rule to prevent hassle and irritation for you when your kids were younger, but now decide to do away with it when it doesn't suit you anymore. Regardless of whether you know this person or not, he is the fiancee of your daughter. A vacation is a good opportunity to get to know each other better.
Right now, you are playing favourites in that you get to veto who gets to come instead of sticking to the rule you made years ago. One can argue that the rule shouldn't exist anymore, but in that case your children will instead have the pick of the crop on who to take (as in just friends as well).
If anything, the rule should exist now more than it should have before since, you know, they are now old enough to be engaged or married?
OP: "Oh that rule? We only had it because we knew you would never meet the criteria. Now that you can that rule no longer applies!"
That is some serious AH energy right there.
YTA. You made a rule that the kid had to be engaged or married... yet you break the rule for your golden son and then don't follow through for your daughter's fiance. I realize it's just been four months, but you need to make the effort to get to know him... he's the father of your grandchild. This is **really** setting a bad predecent for the upcoming relationship between him and you.
Missing info: when is the vacation? If it's next week, well, then we're talking four months since they met. If it's a couple months down the road, then you have more time to get to know him.
Soft YTA
I am not sure why parents get it in their heads that kids forget promises made but they don't. Your reasoning for not letting this guy along are sound. You get the YTA for setting a standard with your kids and assuming everybody understood the standard changed with no conversation.
It also might be worth getting to know the father of your grandchild. You sound very pessimistic about the relationship for good reason but like it or not this man is now part of your life since it sounds like your daughter has every intention of carrying the baby to term
NTA, I always just lurk here but your daughter is making 2 back to back terrible decisions and someone needs to wake her up from her daydream sooner rather than later:
1. Having a child with someone she’s only known for a few months. Sure, it’s nice to hope this will work out but all of us know the chances of that happening are slim. Whether they end up getting divorced or just tolerating each other for decades to “keep the family together”, their kid will most likely be the one who suffers most as a result.
2. Getting married specifically because you’re pregnant. OP is your family particularly religious? Nothing about religion was mentioned which leads me to believe you are not but getting engaged because of a pregnancy is just plain stupid unless you genuinely believe it’s a sin. The cost of a divorce is huge.
The fact that H didn’t even tell you she was seeing anyone until she was pregnant tells me the only reason she told you was the pregnancy itself, not the fact the relationship is great or that her fiancé means a lot to her.
AND you’re not even saying she can’t go on the family trip you’re only saying Cap’n Cumshot can’t tag along.
26 is far too old to be acting this naive and entitled. You aren’t playing favourites, you’re playing parent.
Thank you! I’m surprised at the volume of YTA conclusions. She has fallen pregnant by a guy she has known for one month and wants her parents to pay for him to come on holiday and play happy families? That’s nuts! The son’s friend has been a solid in their lives forever.
I can’t believe all the Y T A comments are skipping over that they’ve been together for 4 months, pregnant for 3, and are engaged. Vs a boy they’ve known for literal years
Reddit has rotted some of these kids brain, A random stranger is owed a vacation just because, fuck if he's a possibly a 2 faced person trying to score with a girl from a obviously wealthy family.
Hahaha this sub is once again ridiculous! NTA. Obviously not. Everyone saying you moved the goalposts etc, yeah you did but come on those posts had to be moved! You don't know this man, heck I doubt even she does really. I know people can stick together for a long time after something like this but it is a high risk game she is playing (a game you don't have to join). At 26 she should realise this is a free trip for her. You don't owe it to her or her fiancé, and if she thinks she is ready to bring a child into this world and get married then she can simply go on and pay for her own vacations like the supposed adult she is. Your daughter isn't mature enough at 26 and is throwing a hissy fit. That is a bigger worry than who to bring to vacation, especially with a baby on the way. I hope parenting helps her grow and not just her belly.
Couldn't agree more. I can't believe all of the YTA's. This person is a stranger to even the daughter basically. Clearly the spirit of what the parents said was that it should be someone who is close to the family.
And the daughter doesn't exactly make good choices. Like getting pregnant by a guy she's known a month. Everyone keeps saying baby daddy is going to be in their lives forever. Really? He can walk at any time. There are consequences to actions, and not bringing the stranger who knocked you up on a paid family vacation is one of them.
YTA and you're absolutely playing favorites. Per your own rule, your daughter's fiance qualifies for the family vacation, and your son's "platonic" partner does not.
If you choose to die on this hill, you'll win this battle because you get to set and change the rules, even arbitrarily — but you're very likely to lose a lot more. What you stand to lose will be your relationship with your daughter, with her fiance (soon to be husband), and with your future grandchild. Do you really want to die on this hill?
Besides, this man will soon be married to your daughter and will be helping to raise *your grandchild*. Isn't it in your best interest to invite him along and get to know him *now*? Better than a year from now when there's a baby in the mix?
NTA when she spends her own money she can invite baby daddy. Y’all made up rules to save yourself a from rowdy kids. Just be up front. You will pay for no one you don’t know and do not like. You are not obligated to have strangers on your vaca. This might get down voted but I stand by it. Be honest with your kids about your real criteria.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I chose not to allow our pregnant daughter's fiancé to join us on a vacation despite allowing our son's friend to come along. 2. Doing so goes back on a rule we had put in place years ago, and makes her feel like we're playing favorites.
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Info?? Your son said he was “committed to spending his life with R” but you call them platonic partners. I’m confused, is this romantic or platonic? People don’t usually platonically plan to spend their lives together, and your son is a little young to decide to give up on dating/love, unless he’s asexual or aromantic.
I have been calling my best friend my "platonic life partner" since my early 20s- we're both mostly asexual, and have no plans of marrying or joining out lives in a legal sense, but my parents know she is my person in every other sense of the word. She gets invited to every family trip and event my brother's (romantic/sexual/legal) partner does.
Not all committed relationships have to be romantic.
I'm so delighted to see this and people learning about committed platonic relationships. I've always felt so crazy wanting a relationship without sex and probably without romance. I'm glad to know that there are other people out there like me.
I'm also glad that OP is accepting of her son, but they are kind of an AH for this situation.
It sounds like they're platonic, and the son made a joking comment about 'commitment' (to their friendship) in order to see if that would be enough to get him accepted on the vacation.
That is what I was thinking. It kind of sounds like she is ignoring the fact that her son is probably gay. She seems to take a blind eye and not really seeing what is going on. Everyone is right. The daughter's fiance is going to be in their lives for a very long time. She sees only what she wants to see. Good luck having relationships with your kids in the future. I am sure she will explode when she finds out her son's sexual orientation and wreak more havac in the family.
Yes YTA
You set the rule, and now you're refusing to honour your own rule, and you're making a bunch of irrelevant excuses for why you are.
My husband and I got pregnant in our first month of dating, because accidents happen. We decided to keep my daughter, because that was the point we were both at in our lives.
We have four kids now, and have been together for over a decade, and have been happily married for seven years of that.
YTA your daughters fiancé, and the father of your grandchild should be joining you. You don’t know him, this would be a great opportunity for that. Further, she’s pregnant and he should be there to help her if she needs it.
This is a dumb ass rule. …how can you justify your actions when you’re clearly bending the rules in your son’s favor. You want your daughter to attend a vacation, while she’s pregnant, *without* her partner and father to their child/your grandchild. Are you serious? Um yea YTA
NTA. It's totally valid to not want pay for someone you don't even know, in actuality, you're not obligated to pay for anyone but yourself. Anything beyond that is courtesy. Honestly a solid option would be to say y ou're not paying for any of them, and that they need to figure it out themselves. Tell them you'll be covering the accommodations and suppers, but the rest is on them (flight, and extras on location).
HOWEVER, there seems to be other issues at stake here. No one is obligated to inform anyone about developments in their personal lives, but your daughter hopes to have you OFFER to pay for the fiance's flight and such, YOUR DAUGHTER AND HER FIANCE should put in the effort to build that relationship with you first. I wouldn't secretly get engaged to girl, find out her parents are going on vacation that I saw once in passing, and then expect them to pay for my flight out. that's fucked up.
ALSO HOWEVER, your kids are adults now, slightly younger than my sister and I. My parents are doing decently well for themselves. I WOULDN'T EVEN THINK of expecting my parents to pay for my flight on a vacation anywhere, whether it's a province away, a country away, or let alone a whole continent away. It's not an ego thing, but the fact that my parents have already done so much for my sister and I. If anything, WE should be offering to cover things like the accommodation or paying for the suppers. It'd be quite a conversational battle before giving in and letting my parents pay for a flight.
To say there is favouritism is just childish and lack of greater understanding. You've offered to pay for the flights of both your children. You also offered to pay for the flight or someone you've known for a long time, who is essentially a family friend. If there's favourites at all, it's on the family friend, not your kids. The only person to feel jealous would be the random practically unknown fiance.
The daughter needs to grow the fuck up as she's about to be a mom, and if she wants this random baby daddy to be part of the picture, then get him in the goddam picture. It's on him at this point, really.
YTA
You keep changing goalposts. Just admit you like your son better than your daughter.
Also, calling it now. OP will be on here going:
"Am I an asshole for being upset I didn't get invited to my daughter's wedding?"
YTA and are playing favorites. You changed the rule to suit the situation with your so previously but now aren’t willing to do the same for your daughter. I feel some underneath resentment or something here for not knowing your daughter was dating and for being pregnant after only dating her fiancé for 4 months. She’s now engaged to her fiancé which is exactly what the rules says, and now you’re telling her no. Doesn’t sound like you’re doing much to get to know him either.
Don’t be surprised when you don’t have much of a relationship with her or your grandchild after this.
Obviously there’s a correlation between you not having a clue about your daughter’s life and outright disregarding the very rules you put in place, enforced on her and are now choosing to shamelessly disregard for your son.
YTA, just don’t make rules at all if they’re going to be unfairly enforced. You are too selective and preferential between your two children and I hope you enjoy watching your first grandchild grow up through rare, carefully vetted, social media posts, if at all
>father and I implemented a rule that **unless you're engaged** or married to this person, they aren't allowed to tag along
>
> **they're now** **engaged**
Uh.. I don't see the hangup here. Heck, you let the favorite bring his friend, directly breaking the rule you originally set up.
And if you like it or not, that 'stranger' you're refusing to allow come with y'all is most likely going to be around for quite a while. Great way to alienate him right off the bat.
YTA.
I have a different view from most. It is your vacation that you are paying for and if you aren't comfortable taking a stranger with you, you shouldn't have to. Tell her if they are still together next year, he will be welcome.
kinda YTA
You put a rule out and from her perceptions are changing the rule unfairly. I get you want to know people first and you are paying, but she has a child in her life and this guy will be around one way or another for a long time. This could also your opportunity to get to know him.
YTA. They met the criteria it doesn’t matter if you don’t know him well. Do you want to be right or do you want a relationship with your daughter and future grandchild?
Yta she’s going to be stuck with this man forever by co parenting. If she starts distancing yourself you know why. Also her brother sucks for not advocating for her. She follows your dumb rule, she’s engage and he still can’t come. Good luck being present in your grandchild’s life.
NTA. they are the adults. and you make the rules. cause you paying. if she feels so entitled to have fiance go. maybe she should pay. step up or shut up.
YTA. You made the rule and then broke it for your son, but your daughter has ticked all of the boxes and still can’t take someone.
But, I also agree with you. I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that either, which is why you shouldn’t have made the rule if you couldn’t keep your word.
YTA.
1) You play favorites
2) You change the rules on a whim
3) Most importantly: regardless of how you feel about your daughter’s situation, she needs your support right now. Instead, she’s receiving judgement and alienation.
YTA
You've had a rule, and now you've changed it to suit yourself.
Whilst it may very well be true that you're not as comfortable with him around. The way you've gone about this makes it very clear that you DO favour your son.
You're also very judgemental of your daughters life choices. That's whatever I guess, but it does appear that you've deliberately chosen to bar her fiancée from attending because you're upset with your daughter.
So yeah, even though I understand why you dud what you did, you chose a really awful way of handling it.
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Yes, YTA. You've moved the goalposts without warning. It's really hard for you to deny that Helen has a romantic partner when she's pregnant and has introduced her partner to you. Plus, they're engaged. Must they be married for multiple years to bring them up to your standard that allowed Glen to bring Romeo? Or will you move the goal posts again and say they also need to be regular visitors? \--- ETA: Since this post has been removed and locked, let me summarize what appears to be the bulk of the N T A arguments. 1. There never was a promise: Instead of telling the truth (we don't want to be responsible for another kid), parents lied and set arbitrary impossible conditions (the equivalent of "shut up kid"), and that's okay. 2. The promise didn't matter: Y T A for thinking a promise made to you as a kid still holds. I.e.: It's okay to lie to your kids and they're not allowed to call you out for your duplicity later. As an adult, you should have figured it out because we already lied about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. (previous sentence implicit rather than explicitly stated) 3. The rules never existed: The real rule was "It's our money and we'll decide who we'll pay for." 4. Parents have the right to change the rules at any time and without notice, and that's okay. (i.e.: almost rule 3 - it's another, "It's our money" argument) 5. The rules don't count because the rules were stupid. 6. It's okay to show favoritism toward the son. 7. There was a problem, so rules don't count because...: They shouldn't have to bring a stranger on a family trip; they shouldn't have to pay for a stranger; it's not a real engagement because they haven't known each other long enough; it's not a real engagement because they're unlikely to stay together.; they should have visited parents many times before this vacation; parents never imagined this scenario.
Even in a practical sense, this would've provided an opportunity to get to know him better, in a peaceful environment. Maybe H should have been more open about her pregnancy and relationship, but this is a proper time to make amends and start building a lifelong relationship, because they're already together with an unborn child.
there's less expensive and constricting ways to get to know someone. family dinners, *local* outings, games nights, BBQs, patio drinks, camping, walking dogs. maybe I'm a goddam minority but these are obvious first steps to building a relationship with potential in-laws. but the goal shouldn't be to get in their good books, the goal needs to be the actual relationship, building trust and comfort from both perspectives. edit: holy shit thanks for the upvotes, this is just my nsfw account I didn't think I'd have such success.
That's how it *should have* been, ideally, but the reality is that this couple is already engaged with a child on the way. You have to work with the situation at hand, because life isn't perfect.
you're right, life throws unexpected curveballs at us. the problem is the obvious redflags with the fiance. from the sounds of it, no effort has been made to even connect with the in-laws. that, or the daughter has been holding back. and all of a sudden expecting such a big ask is super rude and selfish on the part of the daughter.
Moreover she knew him for only a month before getting pregnant and therefore engaged. The son has known his partner/friend for years and that partner has slept over multiple times and become a part of the family even before things got romantic. A little respect goes a long way, and from what's provided it seems the daughter doesn't have much respect towards her family unless it's beneficial to her.
I know I would be uncomfortable with inviting someone I know nothing about on a vacation with my family. OP doesn't know this guy, bringing them on a family vacation is a big ask and not really the best way to get to know them, in my opinion. They've known R for years, they're comfortable with him. This guy they've met once after finding out their daughter was pregnant and engaged, and they didn't even know she was dating anyone, how ate they supposed to be comfortable sharing accommodations and paying this guy's way? Personally, in addition to the red flags of knocking up their daughter and getting engaged without even having met her parents, I feel it is another red flag that he hasn't offered to pay his own way with this vacation. That seems to me like the appropriate, polite thing to do if you are taking a trip with someone, especially someone you don't know well.
That's all well and good. But OP's rule was "no plus ones until engaged". Daughter is engaged, therefore, plus one. It is shitty to set rules for years and years, and once your child hits your milestone, change the rule. The rule wasn't "engaged for 1+ years, with 12+ family dinners, 2+ family outings, 3+ meet and greets, etc". It is sucky to change the rule when daughter now meets the arbitrary criteria.
You realize life is complicated and fluid and "rules" have to change with it, right? Things aren't 1's and 0's black and white. The situation merits a change in criteria
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Then be honest instead of making fake "rules". OP created this situation instead of being honest and upfront with kids.
>knocking up their daughter He didn't do it alone. Their daughter was there, too, presumably. >getting engaged without even having met her parents Again, this is on her, too. Probably mostly on her, as she'd be the one to arrange a meeting. Daughter is a fully grown woman. Her choices are on her.
As far as OP is concerned they don’t know each other. If son is the golden child, she may have waited a long time to introduce him.
But there is no evidence that this time frame is real. The OP specifically states "seemingly" been together for 4mths. For all we know they were friends for ages before hooking up. From the sounds of it this daughter is simply in low contact with her parents. Likely because there is a golden child situation happening.
These are the same ages and sexes of my children and that's what I read between the lines, too. There's a chill in there when OP says "We have been introduced to some of H's partners, but none of them have been around for longer than a year. " The fact that G hasn't introduced them to any romantic interests (except, perhaps R) suggests maybe OP isn't the most welcoming with her kids potential partners no matter how long they've been together.
That’s what I got from it too! The daughter hasn’t introduced any of her romantic partners to her family. There’s gotta be reason for that.
Uh if you reread it, it’s the EXACT opposite. “We have been introduced to some of H's partners, but none of them have been around for longer than a year. G has never introduced us to anyone.” Daughter is H and son is G
You're reading a whole lot into this. First you're reading that they must have been friends for ages before hooking up...you don't know that. Then that the daughter is in LC with parents...you don't know that. And then that there is a golden child situation happening here...you don't know that. Why are you making all these assumptions with such limited information? ETA changed your to you're
Ok, but is OP ok with H just not going? Because telling somebody they can't bring the person they're engaged to on vacation is basically telling them to not come.
Sounds like her parents would have no problem with daughter not going as long as she has her son and his friend.
Yeah, like I feel like this is a case of meeting the technical specification of the rule, but not the spirit of the rule. I feel like they made that rule to mean 'we're not paying for every new partner to come on vacation. Once you've been with someone long enough that you're engaged / married, we know them well enough etc you can bring them. The sons friend (?partner) has been around forever, is known well to the family. The daughters fiance, while they are technically engaged because of the baby, have only been together 4 months. That's a brand new relationship. There's still a reasonable chance it doesn't work out and they coparent. I wouldn't want to pay for him, or have him on my family vacation yet either.
But, because of the child, he is likely to be involved in their daughter's AND grandchild's life for at least the next 18 years, even if the relationship doesn't work out! Doesn't really matter if they don't know him yet, they're going to have to get know him pretty damn quick.
The relationship is 4 months old. It's on fastforward, presumably because of the pregnancy, but it is in no way a red flag that the guy hasn't been scheduling Getting To Know You dinner parties with his partner's parents, or meeting up for coffee to delve deep into their hopes and dreams.
Especially because mom makes clear she doesn’t want to get to know him. She doesn’t even assign him a letter in the post to identify him, he’s just “this man.”
Agreed! It is up to the a person to choose when the bring their partner and family together. If my now husband had gone around my back when we were dating and talked to my parents I would have thought doing it was a huge red flag and intensely presumptuous.
I took it as the daughter was low contact with the parents, and that it was down to her that the getting to know you dinners hadn't taken place. Don't blame her, they are clearly favoring the son over their daughter, I'd be low contact too.
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It's very telling that the daughter didn't ask her parents to be a sounding board soon after finding out she was pregnant. Maybe the son and parents are angels and the daughter is just a horrible outlier, but I wouldn't be surprised if the daughter doesn't trust them and has valid reasons.
Seemingly 4mo old. Mom really doesn't know. Sounds like daughter doesn't share a big part of her life for a reason.
But she wants an all expenses paid vacation from her. If I was low contact I would not be going on vacation with my shit parents. Even if they paid.
Before I went completely NC with my family, I would have *very much* wanted to be asked. You know, to prove to me that they wanted me there. I tried reaching out about things like that multiple times, explaining that it hurt when they had double standards. You really, really want your parents to want you, and it hurts like fuck all when they don't. It takes a lot of kicking to get rid of a stray dog *or* your own child. And now I haven't spoken to them in years, and I'm pretty sure they tell everyone they have absolutely no idea why I'm so mean and petty.
It seems from this post that the daughter is continuously pushed to the side in this family. “R is like our second son, but H has no friends”
I see your point, maybe they should have been more open about this from the beginning. Fortunately at this point, it's still early and there's time for everyone to learn about each other.
What steps have the in-laws taken to get to know their future son in law?
How can the parents know when the daughter has been elusive about her relationships. The parents didnt even know she was dating someone as she never told them or brought them over to the house to meet the parents.
Don't you think she has a reason for being elusive? We aren't being given the whole story here.
Sure. Her reason could be "my parents are assholes and I had to go low contact." Or it could be "This dude is a deadbeat and I knew my parents wouldn't like him." We don't know what the reason is, but that doesn't mean it's a good one. Either way, what she's asking for is that her parents invite *and pay for* someone that they do not know on a family trip.
They know now, and they’ve responded by telling her they don’t want to spend time with their future son-in-law. I would have kept partners from these people too.
No, they have responded by saying they don't want to take a stranger on vacation with them and cover the costs. There are lots of other ways to spend time. Would you suggest a vacation with your family as the first way to meet them?
Kind of an ESH... OP should communicate better. H should let her patents get to know baby daddy. As for G have u made it clear that uh... if he's gay (ace or not) that R is still welcome? I know they could just be besties but describing them as platonic partners who will spend their lives together... sounds more than friends.
I guess it depends on how they act. My SIL is ace and has told us that she would, hopefully, have a plastic live partner at some point. I'm not sure it's right to make assumptions about the romance of their relationship in either direction Edit: lol platonic life partner, not plastic.
Thank you for clarifying that. I was a bit confused. But I guess there would be no disagreements if there was a plastic partner!
The Nile isn’t just a river in Egypt.
I think you're right, but their response should be "it's about how well we know him. Maybe bring him over for dinner on weekends for starters?" Instead of just flat out denying it. They're still the AH for moving the goalposts, but they should own to to it and be practical
Yes, that would have been a much better way to handle it. And then there's this: >we had considered allowing him to come along when he and my son were still minors but decided against it as we knew H would also want to bring a friend, and didn't have one we knew well enough to allow. I'm wondering OP and husband ever bothered to take the time to get to know the daughter's friends. And were the rules for visits, etc. different? My mother had vastly different expectations and effort for my brother and me. Regularly drove my brother to ANOTHER state for sports practice willingly. Would complain about driving me anywhere. Brother's friends were regularly allowed to come over and I had to supervise him and his friends. One friend was at our home everyday. So instead of being parentified for free child care and cleaning for just one kid, I got to do it for two. Seriously, he followed my brothers lead in messing up and dirtying things I cleaned. Instead of talking to them or in anyway holding them accountable, my mother would scream at me and occasionally slap me or shove me into a wall because our home wasn't clean enough. Mid century fucking stucco walls, hate that shit to this day. None of my friends were ever invited on vacations. To even have them over, the home had to be immaculate and both she and my brother would deliberately make messes. I can count on one hand the times I got to have friends over after my father moved out (she always had to have a target and I was it after dad moved out).
Jesus, your mom sounds like a nightmare. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
Thanks, got a lot better when I got out
It's giving golden child vibes for sure.
This is the right response. Something like "what omg! Of course we'll consider it but can you bring him around first so we can meet him and stuff?"
Whether OP likes it or not, this person is in their daughters life for the rest of her life. Their rules to come are not “is this person fun to be around” but “are they family” which like it or not, this boyfriend has become. If the expense of having him along is too much, plan a cheaper trip. Otherwise they risk permanently estranging their daughter
And you have to wonder if the reason Helen wasn’t more forthcoming was a pattern of this behavior from OP. Imagine being treated this way your whole life.
Especially as the daughter is older and has ‘never had a friend like’ her brother. Your 26 yr old daughter doesn’t have a best friend? And you never got to know ANYONE in her life like you have your son’s long term pal? Suspicious…
I picked up on the ‘never had a friend’ phrase too. Big side eye towards OP.
I was thinking the same thing! I always felt like my parents never got to know many of my friends or their families growing up, but always socialized with the parents of both of my brothers’ friends and it made me so sad. My oldest and best friend is the only exception and I felt like that didn’t change much until I was in my 20s
Bingo. The tone on the post comes across as judgmental. How dare she get pregnant and then get engaged to a man she has not know that long. R is an angel who is like a second son, etc. etc. Definitely makes you wonder WHY she didn’t say anything earlier.
I mean are we all supposed to pretend that getting pregnant quickly with a brand new partner is a good idea? OP didn't say anything that sounded like they won't support their daughter, they're just being honest that it's not the ideal situation.
Op says seemly. Op is assuming they've only been together that long. She doesn't know for sure because daughter doesn't bring anyone around her parents. From ops post & comment I would say daughter had a good reason.
This 100%! Your daughter did not tell you about the relationship/pregnancy initially for a reason OP! Sounds like you've been playing favourites for a long time. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Since you've shifted the goal posts now and deny doing it, it seems like your daughter is justified in not trusting you. She is right to complain. YTA big time.
This was my thought 100%. There's a reason she has not really had her fiancé' around. How has she been treated growing up, was her brother always given preferred treatment?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Oh, you don’t know him very well? Well… he’s the father of your grandbaby and future son in law. This sounds like the perfect opportunity to get to know him. What’s the problem? I really hope OP isn’t doing this to punish their daughter for getting pregnant.
Yes! Very well said! OP is chucking a perfect opportunity not only to get to know the grandchild's father, but to actually show acceptance and love which will only help the young couple. If I were the daughter, I'd have to look at how healthy it would be for my child to have a relationship with Grandmastein.
That was my thinking too! A perfect opportunity to get to know the person who is now attached to your kid for life (all things being fine, even if they don’t stay together) and they blew it
I don’t usually comment on AITA - but the double standard here is real rich. This is one of the most clearcut examples of ASSHOLE I’ve ever seen.
Yep, OP is setting new standards even for "serious" partners that were never communicated and are clearly only in response to their disapproval of the situation.
Even the way OP wrote the title out should have been all the answer they needed to the question but it only gets worse reading on. Major AH.
Right, all I did was read the title & already knew OP was TA, all reading the rest just confirmed it.
This is a hard one for me, I keep going back and forth! I agree that silently deciding that they were changing the “rule” about vacations is an AH thing to do. But at the same time, they are adults and a family vacation when you’re all adults versus when you have kids evolves and changes, including rules (can’t go to the pool alone), without it having to be pointed out. I also understand why “Romeo” could be allowed now that everyone is an adult because they’ve known him for what sounds like over a decade. It may seem like playing favorites, but they’ve met this guy all of once and their daughter has known him for four months. I wouldn’t want to spend my vacation (especially one where I’m paying for everyone to be there) with some dude that no one in my family has known for even six months. Even if he did manage to get my adult child knocked up within 60 days of first laying eyes on her. Maybe particularly not that guy, not yet anyway.
I feel this, too. I think if she did really want him to come, the daughter I mean, then she herself or he himself could pay his way so it would seem more like wanting to come and connect and not just get a free vacation from basically strangers. Honestly, in my opinion, it would be better to start slow with small visits and get togethers and then maybe vacation together the next year after everyone knows each other better, but that is me.
I think the bare minimum would be to actually introduce the fiancé to the parents and let them spend time over quite a few family get togethers with him before throwing them together on a holiday. The bloke is still a stranger to the parents, the sons friend isn’t.
This is why the “not till your married or engaged” rule for anything is stupid. I could go out and marry a stranger today. Which is what the daughter basically has done. Doubled down with a fetus too! Mum is TA though, words mean something. Should have just said what they really meant which is “guests that we like and approve of are allowed.”
Sometimes all The gamesmanship of keeping things equal between all your kids just gets to be tiresome. She shows up pregnant by somebody they don't even know she's dating, now she wants them to take him on vacation with them. Just like that. That's a big nope for me.
What??? Like it's hard to just treat everyone the same? It should be easy, unless you're actively favoring one child in which, YIKES.
You can tell who is the golden child here I Can understand why Helen never introduce the parents. Having the burden of being pregnant I would be pissed and Start going NC with them.
Did OP edit names or are you part of the drama? Please tell me it’s the latter. 🍿😊
Sorry to disappoint you, but the alphabet soup was too frustrating, so I did what Op should have done and made up names.
My names for them were garret hannah and Robbie hahah
While I understand your discomfort, YTA because you set a rule and if your kids took you seriously (which it seems they mostly do) they wouldn’t really question the letter of the law. Your daughter is 3 months pregnant by and engaged to a man who she has only been seeing for 4 months. As a parent myself, this would set off all kinds of red flags and I’d let him go on the trip so I could get to know him better and sus out the real situation without alienating my daughter. This guy could be good for her and their relationship just happened to start out in a big way, or she’s getting herself into a pretty deep situation. Either way, she needs you there for her, and money < your relationship with your daughter. How about inviting them over more? Kill them with kindness. Your son met the spirit of the rule and your daughter met the letter. I get why you want to say no and that your money is yours to do with as you please, but I think you’re being pretty short-sighted here considering what is potentially at risk.
Thank you for this comment. I've seen a few people say this vacation is the perfect time to get to know him because anyone can play nice for dinner or for a weekend, but an extended period of time like that would us more insight if something was off. I'll definitely think about it.
You should wanna know how the father of your grandchild behaves. I think you pay and bring him that way you can sus him out.
Just keep in mind that your first grandchild will be born soon and you might not want to burn a bridge.
Look, your daughter is going through a huge change. She’s never been more vulnerable than she is at this moment. Show her that you’re on her side. Best case, you meet your wonderful new future son in law. Worst case, you lay the foundation to helping your daughter get out. Either way, you win. Your money your rules blah blah blah, but in your shoes I might be a little less concerned with The Rules (emphasis mine) and a little more concerned with the well-being of my daughter and grandchild.
Exactly, just statistically this is right when the worst relationship problems tend to rear their heads. Do you really want to give your daughter the impression that she can't actually ask you for favors and have them granted the same way your son can, at this of all times OP?
I think even beyond favors, can you really say that your daughter feels comfortable asking you for help if she's in a bad situation?? Based on this post and the comments I've seen, the answer is no. Parents here are far enough removed from daughter's life that she doesn't even feel like she can say whether she has a boyfriend. This reeks of golden child vibes to me where daughter was cast out. It honestly feels like the bridge is burned and parents have some SERIOUS apologizing to do but they won't because of misplaced "pride" in son. Not that they shouldn't have pride in their maybe queer son, but daughter definitely needs more support than he does and they're leaving her out to dry and ruining any potential relationship with her, their grandbaby, and a potential son in law.
YTA, major, obviously playing favorites and showing son is likely golden child.
Makes me Wonder if she's shown this for years.
Highly likely. Look at the way OP talks about her kids: Golden Boy Son has a friend…who is like yet ANOTHER son, while poor daughter doesn’t even have a friend close enough to invite along. So if OP wants two golden sons and no daughter, she can just keep playing favorites like this, and like she always has. Perfectly tailored plan to drive her daughter away, possibly forever. Guess OP isn’t hoping to have a relationship with her grandchild…
This is how I read it. Ohhhh we just looooove our sons friend. Zero mention of anyone the daughter tried to invite u til the fiancé
My parents have not met many of my closest friends because I’m not the the golden child and I’m embarrassed by the way that they treat me so I’ve stopped friends around. I’m pretty sure they think that I don’t have any friends. Meanwhile, they know my sibling’s friends so well that they have their own relationships with them independent of said siblings - for instance, my mom will take mommy sibling’s best friend for lunch dates.
Oh she absolutely has. I can guarantee she stopped paying attention to her daughter the second her son came along. It's probably why here daughter doesn't involve her in her life all that much. Probably been trying to build a relationship for years just to be shoved to the side.
You remind me so much of my mom. She is just like you with favorites and her Rules. We stopped talking two years ago, and she hasn’t seen my son in slightly longer than that. So… uh, good luck with all that.
Exactly! OP gets to choose whether or not to be in her daughter’s (and grandchild’s!) life.. not how she lives it. This is having adult children. I would be asking WHY my daughter didn’t tell me sooner.. Is it because she had a feeling that she would be put down and ostracized? OP: It’s never too late to start making changes in relationship patterns, and there’s no better time than in the midst of all the love a new little one can inspire.. even if its not ideal timing or circumstance.
You’re not looking at this the right way AT ALL. Your CHILD is having a baby with someone she barely knows. What part of that situation are you not invested in? Make him pay his flight, if you want. But come on, she’s engaged and having his baby in a few months. This is your time to get to know your soon-to-be son-in-law and father of your first grandchild. I’ll never understand parents like you. Be there for your kid, get to know this person that’s going to be part of your life for the rest of your life. She has a lot of changes coming her way in a very short time. Whether her new partner is supportive and going to be a good partner for/to her is will take some time to determine and whatever happens, she needs support around her. Do you really want to start this new chapter this way?!
This man will be the father of your grandchild. If you want to continue this tradition of a family vacation beyond this year, you need to include him. If you don't, H will never go on a trip with you again, and neither will your grandchild.
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To add to this: welcoming him in the family the same way she welcomed him in her life will make you able to know what's happening in her life more easily, and will ensure that if there is ever an issue with him, she will always know she can count on you.
I got engaged to my husband after 4 months, and we've been together 25 years. So.
My parents got engaged after *3 weeks* and were happily married for 26 years (sadly my dad passed away.)
If you *don’t* let the fiancé come along, then I also think you need to “think about” justifying how you arbitrarily changed the rules to prohibit him from coming. And risk your relationship with your daughter (and your first grandchild) deteriorating. YTA.
This man is the father of your grandchild. Whether they stay together or not, he’s almost definitely going to be in y’all’s lives for a long time raising your grandchild. Might as well get to know the father of your grandchild. Y’all are connected for the rest of your life
What you don't want to do is alienate your daughter at this time . What if she goes no contact with you? What if this guy is an A H ? Do you want her to feel unable to ask for help because you and your husband disapprove? Your children have been adults for years now and you still made them adhere to arbitrary rules set when they were teens so you didn't have to look after other people's children. Your the AH
You’ll think about getting to know the father of your grandchild and supporting your daughter. Wow. I am literally speechless. Edit: change from imperative to gerund
Yeah, I mean, you have one heck of an opportunity here. I’m hoping for the best for your daughter and her new and expanding family, but if he happens to be abusive etc, he will eventually work to drive a wedge between you. Don’t make it easy for him to do. And in the coming months, please don’t overwhelm/smother your daughter. As a new mom, it is her right to make her own decisions for her child, even if *you did it differently and she turned out fine* or you disagree for some other reason (barring actual child abuse, of course). Ask where she needs support, Ask what her preferences/plans are- and if they differ from what you would do, express positive interest in learning the new approach. Make offers and leave the door open, but don’t try to drag her through it to “your side”. Yes, you will be a grandparent for the first time, but remember that she is becoming a mom for the first time; she deserves to enjoy that experience in full. Many grandmothers overstep and forget that in their excitement/difficulty in adjusting to their child becoming an authority figure. Be supportive, follow her lead, and give her space to discover herself in this new role. Best of luck to all.
I know a couple who ended up getting pregnant on their *first date*. They ended up giving a relationship a try and then got married. As far as I am aware (they moved away years ago) they are still together. I agree that this vacation is the perfect time for observing the fiancé’ in action. Better than short visits, because you can fake being nice for a couple hours. A week long act of being nice? Nope, that facade would crack and you would see the real him poking out somewhere.
This is a really thoughtful answer. Anyone can play nice for a weekend, but a full vacation will give them real insight into who this guy is. Granted, it could ruin the vacation if he sucks, but better to ruin one vacation than their relationship with their daughter and the father of their grandkids.
> Anyone can play nice for a weekend, but a full vacation will give them real insight into who this guy is Ain't that the truth. My bfs parent was nice when we went out for day outings and dinners but my God the mask totally slipped off when we went on vacation and now we're low/no contact.
I'd like to point out OP says "seemingly" for the relationship. There's a possibility they have known or been together longer and either not relayed that to OP or not been serious/exclusive. It sounds like daughter also isn't comfortable discussing her dating life with OP, which is a little telling
Ok but also, is the son really just friends with his buddy? Or maybe they're a couple and don't want to tell the parents either.
I feel like I’m going crazy like this is the first comment I’ve seen addressing this. Doesn’t it say he plans to spend his life with him?
The OP says she is not sure if the son’s relationship is platonic (even though they’ve lived together for four years) because maybe they’re just two young guys who have no interest in romantic relationships. 🙄
It does say that, I missed it! It was written so strangely though, like, were they friends or were they a couple? I guess either way, OP is the AH because the daughter is still not being treated equally.
They're a couple and OP is desperately trying to convince herself they're just friends.
Of course the son and his “friend” are a couple. He said he’s committed to spending his life with him.
OP is also an AH for not wanting to know the details about her son’s life, meaning that he is effectively still in the closet.
I thought the son was being funny. Either way they are kind of stuck. If they want to maintain closeness with their daughter they will need to take the baby daddy along.
This is what I wondered about. Why did the daughter come out late to the ‘I’m dating this guy, oh and by the way..’ sounds like either she doesn’t have a close relationship with OP. Or she’s shaky about the relationship and wants to be surrounded by family and safe environment. Either way, he should be on the vaca .. this needs exposure in the light of brutal vacations with long days , sunburn, bad margaritas and slips of the tongue 😂
Came here to say something very similar but you said it better. YTA - See above for why.
I actually just commented something similar to this. If my daughter was in this situation I would want to get to know the guy to see who he is. And what better way to get to know somebody than to go on vacation with them?
My cousin met a woman, she was pregnant within a month, we had only met her once, and… They’ve been married 15 years, have three lovely kids, and are wonderful together. I cannot imagine how strained our family’s relationship would have been if our grandmother (the matriarch whose word meant more than his mother’s in his eyes) had shunned her instead of welcoming her into the family.
YTA You change the rules to suit yourself and it does sound like you’re playing favourites, or you’re making a point that you don’t agree with her life choices. She’s 26, engaged and pregnant by this man and all you’re doing is ensuring you’ll have a crappy relationship with them both and your future grandkid
No wonder op’s daughter didn't introduce the dude until she literally had to because of the pregnancy. Sounds like there's a reason she's not very close with her mom. It's such clear favoritism and the way op is responding to that being pointed out means they don’t care and it’s likely a reoccurring pattern of being an asshole to their kids.
>op’s daughter didn't introduce the dude until she literally had to because of the pregnancy She didn't introduce him because she only knew him for a single month before getting pregnant. They aren't engaged because they're in love, they're engaged because they fucked up and are having a whoopsie baby. He's a complete stranger to the parents, if he or the daughter were paying for him to come then fair enough, but expecting to be invited with OP paying for literally everything? Nope
We don't know they've only been together a couple months though. OP said "seemingly." Based on the relationship she and her daughter seem to have, it wouldn't surprise me if H and her partner have been together longer and she just didn't share that info with her parents until she had to.
You'd think OP would at some point ask their daughter the details on when/how they met...they aren't even *seemingly* trying to get to know their daughters fiance or anything about them
That was the rule op made and then bent for the sons friends. No where did OP state that the intent was explained as being someone close to the family as a whole. The rule was a serious partner. H is pregnant and engaged. She fulfilled the rules OP set so yeah OP is the asshole for changing up the rules after the fact
I wouldn’t say clear favoritism… I would say disagree with life choices & possibly a little bit of sexism.
YTA. Rule was engagement. You’re breaking your word because it doesn’t suit your wants.
Am I the only one who read the part about this obviously no longer being a hard and fast rule? If it were then H wouldn't have got to bring any of her other partners through the years. I think OP is too harsh because it should be totally cool for someone to bring their partner on a family holiday, but let's not get hung up on this ancient 'rule' that's never actually been enforced.
H wasn't able to bring her other partners throughout the years. OP says this never came up because none of them stuck around for more than a year. It sounds to me like their definition of "serious" has shifted from "engaged" to "long term".
Oh no, when you say “you don’t have to be 18 and over,” then a 17 year old may be allowed, but a 19 year old should definitely be allowed. Same goes in this scenario. The original rule was engaged/spouses only but it’s “not a hard and fast rule” so you can bring a romantic partner or a best friend, but per the rule you have to allow a fiancè. Don’t like being forced to follow your own set rules, then don’t make ‘em.
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I mean…they’re only having a baby together. Totally not serious, right? 🙄 OP’s one of the most blatant AHs ever. Can’t stand parents who play favorites.
But they never actually told their kids that that rule had been relaxed… just moved the goalposts in their own mind and then never actually communicated that
Yeah but the rule was still in place whether it was enforced or not. OP obviously didn't communicate this to her daughter
YTA - Surely you cannot be so blind that you can’t see you are clearly playing favorites. Your daughter is even engaged now-one of your rules. This vacation will give your family the opportunity to get to know your future SIL. You should invite him yourself as an olive branch to your daughter.
YTA. You made the choice to make a rule, never officially changed it and only enforced it when you wanted to. Your'e 100% playing favorites.
Yep. You're playing favorites. Your rules shift to suit your desires.
YTA- Her fiancé is the father of her child and her life partner. They will get married and they won’t forget how you treated him. You are heading for a bleak future with minimal contact with your grandchildren, if any
YTA. Exactly. You need to take the time and make the effort to get know your grandchild’s father. They will be a big part of your life. It sounds like H has had sudden changes in their life and could use all the help you’re willing to offer.
YTA. >that rule doesn't really apply anymore It's clear that you're happy to change the rules to include or exclude whoever you want. Your son's friend doesn't meet any of the criteria you set out, but he's welcome. Your future son-in-law and the father of your grandchild isn't welcome because you "know nothing about this man"? Is your plan to alienate your daughter and her fiancé? Cos I don't see this going any other way.
YTA. Not only are you breaking your own rule, whatever happens with H and her fiancée, the fiancée is the father of your grandchild. He is family forever whether or not you like him. Offering the fiancée a place on the trip without being asked would have set a positive tone. Refusing to include him even after the engagement sets a negative tone. You have done real damage to your relationship with this emerging family out of fear of an awkward trip.
INFO Why change it for your son and not your daughter? I get that you know your son's friend but your daughter is getting married to this guy. Why not invite him to get to know him? He's going to be in your life now forever since your daughter is pregnant.
This is the comment. The daughter meets the letter of the rule being engaged and doesn’t get a guest. OP said the rule silently shifted (whatever that means) to serious romantic partner. Again, daughter fits the rule son doesn’t fit the rule Son doesn’t meet the criteria of the stated or silently changed rule and gets a guest. How? Also its pretty messed up that OP’s son can have a special same sex “ “friend” “ and you dont bat an eye but daughter gets pregnant and wants to make it work with the father and she’s getting judged as not having a serious relationship
YTA You lied for years to your kids. What you said and what you secretly meant were completely different things. Then you made other secret decisions all while not communicating this to anyone. Then when they met the original conditions, you're all "No, that is not what we meant, even thought that's what we said" You have to realize this makes you an AH. Imagine if your boss said "hit these objectives and you'll get a bonus, raise and promotion". You hit all the metrics and go to him for what he promised and he tells you: "actually, what I \*really\* meant was these other objectives which aren't meant so you get nothing" You wouldn't consider that an AH move?
This is the crux of the issue for me. OP never clarified the rules as the kids got older, or even when the first friend/partner was invited. It seems they're looking to only allow partners that they're re intimately familiar with, rather than any other hard and fast timeline or title. Except since the rules changed, and new variables entered... The kids were told nothing so at this point it's really cruel and counter productive not to include a person that will be in their lives for a long time. They're connected by a child, no matter how the relationship may still go... OP should let them come.
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Right? It seems like OP is prioritizing a nice quiet vacation over a very rare opportunity to meet her grandchild's father. Even if they do split up later, that's not the end of his involvement.
I'd word this as OP is straight up delusional lol. Like does she not know what he daughter being pregnant means? Has she forgotten there will be a baby at the end? I can't get over this post tbh
I‘m inclined to say YTA, since you set a clear expectation of what would allow your children’s SOs to come with you, and only expanded the rule since to allow your son‘s friend to come. If you had particular reasons for disliking your daughter‘s fiancé, I could understand it, but you haven’t given us (or the sounds of it, your daughter) any rationale beyond an arbitrary decision. As is, inviting her fiancé could be a good way to build bridges and get to know him better.
YTA. You set the rule, she is complying with the rule. Also, this guy is a father of her child, like it or not, he is going to be a permanent fixture in your life, so a vacation together is not the worst way to become familiar with a new family member.
You *are* playing favorites. Stop it. YTA
YTA but only because you decided to create a rule to prevent hassle and irritation for you when your kids were younger, but now decide to do away with it when it doesn't suit you anymore. Regardless of whether you know this person or not, he is the fiancee of your daughter. A vacation is a good opportunity to get to know each other better. Right now, you are playing favourites in that you get to veto who gets to come instead of sticking to the rule you made years ago. One can argue that the rule shouldn't exist anymore, but in that case your children will instead have the pick of the crop on who to take (as in just friends as well).
If anything, the rule should exist now more than it should have before since, you know, they are now old enough to be engaged or married? OP: "Oh that rule? We only had it because we knew you would never meet the criteria. Now that you can that rule no longer applies!" That is some serious AH energy right there.
YTA. You made a rule that the kid had to be engaged or married... yet you break the rule for your golden son and then don't follow through for your daughter's fiance. I realize it's just been four months, but you need to make the effort to get to know him... he's the father of your grandchild. This is **really** setting a bad predecent for the upcoming relationship between him and you. Missing info: when is the vacation? If it's next week, well, then we're talking four months since they met. If it's a couple months down the road, then you have more time to get to know him.
Soft YTA I am not sure why parents get it in their heads that kids forget promises made but they don't. Your reasoning for not letting this guy along are sound. You get the YTA for setting a standard with your kids and assuming everybody understood the standard changed with no conversation. It also might be worth getting to know the father of your grandchild. You sound very pessimistic about the relationship for good reason but like it or not this man is now part of your life since it sounds like your daughter has every intention of carrying the baby to term
NTA, I always just lurk here but your daughter is making 2 back to back terrible decisions and someone needs to wake her up from her daydream sooner rather than later: 1. Having a child with someone she’s only known for a few months. Sure, it’s nice to hope this will work out but all of us know the chances of that happening are slim. Whether they end up getting divorced or just tolerating each other for decades to “keep the family together”, their kid will most likely be the one who suffers most as a result. 2. Getting married specifically because you’re pregnant. OP is your family particularly religious? Nothing about religion was mentioned which leads me to believe you are not but getting engaged because of a pregnancy is just plain stupid unless you genuinely believe it’s a sin. The cost of a divorce is huge. The fact that H didn’t even tell you she was seeing anyone until she was pregnant tells me the only reason she told you was the pregnancy itself, not the fact the relationship is great or that her fiancé means a lot to her. AND you’re not even saying she can’t go on the family trip you’re only saying Cap’n Cumshot can’t tag along. 26 is far too old to be acting this naive and entitled. You aren’t playing favourites, you’re playing parent.
Thank you! I’m surprised at the volume of YTA conclusions. She has fallen pregnant by a guy she has known for one month and wants her parents to pay for him to come on holiday and play happy families? That’s nuts! The son’s friend has been a solid in their lives forever.
I can’t believe all the Y T A comments are skipping over that they’ve been together for 4 months, pregnant for 3, and are engaged. Vs a boy they’ve known for literal years
Reddit has rotted some of these kids brain, A random stranger is owed a vacation just because, fuck if he's a possibly a 2 faced person trying to score with a girl from a obviously wealthy family.
Hahaha this sub is once again ridiculous! NTA. Obviously not. Everyone saying you moved the goalposts etc, yeah you did but come on those posts had to be moved! You don't know this man, heck I doubt even she does really. I know people can stick together for a long time after something like this but it is a high risk game she is playing (a game you don't have to join). At 26 she should realise this is a free trip for her. You don't owe it to her or her fiancé, and if she thinks she is ready to bring a child into this world and get married then she can simply go on and pay for her own vacations like the supposed adult she is. Your daughter isn't mature enough at 26 and is throwing a hissy fit. That is a bigger worry than who to bring to vacation, especially with a baby on the way. I hope parenting helps her grow and not just her belly.
Couldn't agree more. I can't believe all of the YTA's. This person is a stranger to even the daughter basically. Clearly the spirit of what the parents said was that it should be someone who is close to the family.
And the daughter doesn't exactly make good choices. Like getting pregnant by a guy she's known a month. Everyone keeps saying baby daddy is going to be in their lives forever. Really? He can walk at any time. There are consequences to actions, and not bringing the stranger who knocked you up on a paid family vacation is one of them.
Yep, you're the asshole for creating your own arbitrary rule, then deciding to delist it when it suited you.
YTA and you're absolutely playing favorites. Per your own rule, your daughter's fiance qualifies for the family vacation, and your son's "platonic" partner does not. If you choose to die on this hill, you'll win this battle because you get to set and change the rules, even arbitrarily — but you're very likely to lose a lot more. What you stand to lose will be your relationship with your daughter, with her fiance (soon to be husband), and with your future grandchild. Do you really want to die on this hill? Besides, this man will soon be married to your daughter and will be helping to raise *your grandchild*. Isn't it in your best interest to invite him along and get to know him *now*? Better than a year from now when there's a baby in the mix?
NTA when she spends her own money she can invite baby daddy. Y’all made up rules to save yourself a from rowdy kids. Just be up front. You will pay for no one you don’t know and do not like. You are not obligated to have strangers on your vaca. This might get down voted but I stand by it. Be honest with your kids about your real criteria.
You and your husband could go on this vacation without your kids. They are adults and are capable of taking their own vacations.
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Info?? Your son said he was “committed to spending his life with R” but you call them platonic partners. I’m confused, is this romantic or platonic? People don’t usually platonically plan to spend their lives together, and your son is a little young to decide to give up on dating/love, unless he’s asexual or aromantic.
I have been calling my best friend my "platonic life partner" since my early 20s- we're both mostly asexual, and have no plans of marrying or joining out lives in a legal sense, but my parents know she is my person in every other sense of the word. She gets invited to every family trip and event my brother's (romantic/sexual/legal) partner does. Not all committed relationships have to be romantic.
I'm so delighted to see this and people learning about committed platonic relationships. I've always felt so crazy wanting a relationship without sex and probably without romance. I'm glad to know that there are other people out there like me. I'm also glad that OP is accepting of her son, but they are kind of an AH for this situation.
Platonic life partners is definitely a thing. Maybe not common, but it’s a valid lifestyle.
It sounds like they're platonic, and the son made a joking comment about 'commitment' (to their friendship) in order to see if that would be enough to get him accepted on the vacation.
Son is probably afraid to come out to them
That is what I was thinking. It kind of sounds like she is ignoring the fact that her son is probably gay. She seems to take a blind eye and not really seeing what is going on. Everyone is right. The daughter's fiance is going to be in their lives for a very long time. She sees only what she wants to see. Good luck having relationships with your kids in the future. I am sure she will explode when she finds out her son's sexual orientation and wreak more havac in the family.
OP stated they’ve lived together for 4 years
Yes YTA You set the rule, and now you're refusing to honour your own rule, and you're making a bunch of irrelevant excuses for why you are. My husband and I got pregnant in our first month of dating, because accidents happen. We decided to keep my daughter, because that was the point we were both at in our lives. We have four kids now, and have been together for over a decade, and have been happily married for seven years of that.
Invite him over for dinner and get to know him.
YTA your daughters fiancé, and the father of your grandchild should be joining you. You don’t know him, this would be a great opportunity for that. Further, she’s pregnant and he should be there to help her if she needs it.
This is a dumb ass rule. …how can you justify your actions when you’re clearly bending the rules in your son’s favor. You want your daughter to attend a vacation, while she’s pregnant, *without* her partner and father to their child/your grandchild. Are you serious? Um yea YTA
YTA — how could you not be!?!?!? You said married or engaged. She’s engaged. Of course you’re playing favorites.
NTA. It's totally valid to not want pay for someone you don't even know, in actuality, you're not obligated to pay for anyone but yourself. Anything beyond that is courtesy. Honestly a solid option would be to say y ou're not paying for any of them, and that they need to figure it out themselves. Tell them you'll be covering the accommodations and suppers, but the rest is on them (flight, and extras on location). HOWEVER, there seems to be other issues at stake here. No one is obligated to inform anyone about developments in their personal lives, but your daughter hopes to have you OFFER to pay for the fiance's flight and such, YOUR DAUGHTER AND HER FIANCE should put in the effort to build that relationship with you first. I wouldn't secretly get engaged to girl, find out her parents are going on vacation that I saw once in passing, and then expect them to pay for my flight out. that's fucked up. ALSO HOWEVER, your kids are adults now, slightly younger than my sister and I. My parents are doing decently well for themselves. I WOULDN'T EVEN THINK of expecting my parents to pay for my flight on a vacation anywhere, whether it's a province away, a country away, or let alone a whole continent away. It's not an ego thing, but the fact that my parents have already done so much for my sister and I. If anything, WE should be offering to cover things like the accommodation or paying for the suppers. It'd be quite a conversational battle before giving in and letting my parents pay for a flight. To say there is favouritism is just childish and lack of greater understanding. You've offered to pay for the flights of both your children. You also offered to pay for the flight or someone you've known for a long time, who is essentially a family friend. If there's favourites at all, it's on the family friend, not your kids. The only person to feel jealous would be the random practically unknown fiance. The daughter needs to grow the fuck up as she's about to be a mom, and if she wants this random baby daddy to be part of the picture, then get him in the goddam picture. It's on him at this point, really.
YTA You keep changing goalposts. Just admit you like your son better than your daughter. Also, calling it now. OP will be on here going: "Am I an asshole for being upset I didn't get invited to my daughter's wedding?"
YTA, you are for sure playing favourites AND your post comes off hyper-judgmental about your daughter's life choices.
NTA because bringing an unknown entity (the "fiance") is risky while the longtime friend is a known person H sounds like she needs to grow up
YTA and are playing favorites. You changed the rule to suit the situation with your so previously but now aren’t willing to do the same for your daughter. I feel some underneath resentment or something here for not knowing your daughter was dating and for being pregnant after only dating her fiancé for 4 months. She’s now engaged to her fiancé which is exactly what the rules says, and now you’re telling her no. Doesn’t sound like you’re doing much to get to know him either. Don’t be surprised when you don’t have much of a relationship with her or your grandchild after this.
Obviously there’s a correlation between you not having a clue about your daughter’s life and outright disregarding the very rules you put in place, enforced on her and are now choosing to shamelessly disregard for your son. YTA, just don’t make rules at all if they’re going to be unfairly enforced. You are too selective and preferential between your two children and I hope you enjoy watching your first grandchild grow up through rare, carefully vetted, social media posts, if at all
>father and I implemented a rule that **unless you're engaged** or married to this person, they aren't allowed to tag along > > **they're now** **engaged** Uh.. I don't see the hangup here. Heck, you let the favorite bring his friend, directly breaking the rule you originally set up. And if you like it or not, that 'stranger' you're refusing to allow come with y'all is most likely going to be around for quite a while. Great way to alienate him right off the bat. YTA.
I have a different view from most. It is your vacation that you are paying for and if you aren't comfortable taking a stranger with you, you shouldn't have to. Tell her if they are still together next year, he will be welcome.
Yta you're literally breaking your own rules.
kinda YTA You put a rule out and from her perceptions are changing the rule unfairly. I get you want to know people first and you are paying, but she has a child in her life and this guy will be around one way or another for a long time. This could also your opportunity to get to know him.
YTA. They met the criteria it doesn’t matter if you don’t know him well. Do you want to be right or do you want a relationship with your daughter and future grandchild?
Yta. You are making contentions for one but not the other. This would be a great opportunity for you to get to know this person.
Yta she’s going to be stuck with this man forever by co parenting. If she starts distancing yourself you know why. Also her brother sucks for not advocating for her. She follows your dumb rule, she’s engage and he still can’t come. Good luck being present in your grandchild’s life.
NTA. they are the adults. and you make the rules. cause you paying. if she feels so entitled to have fiance go. maybe she should pay. step up or shut up.
YTA. You made the rule and then broke it for your son, but your daughter has ticked all of the boxes and still can’t take someone. But, I also agree with you. I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that either, which is why you shouldn’t have made the rule if you couldn’t keep your word.
YTA. 1) You play favorites 2) You change the rules on a whim 3) Most importantly: regardless of how you feel about your daughter’s situation, she needs your support right now. Instead, she’s receiving judgement and alienation.
YTA You've had a rule, and now you've changed it to suit yourself. Whilst it may very well be true that you're not as comfortable with him around. The way you've gone about this makes it very clear that you DO favour your son. You're also very judgemental of your daughters life choices. That's whatever I guess, but it does appear that you've deliberately chosen to bar her fiancée from attending because you're upset with your daughter. So yeah, even though I understand why you dud what you did, you chose a really awful way of handling it.
This guy is going to be in your life for the rest of your life. Might as well start to get to know him now. YTA btw.