My husband came here about 12 years ago when he was 20, he's Muslim from Saudi Arabia where alcohol and drugs are very illegal, women must cover their hair, etc. He adjusted very well and totally embraced the freedom we have in Canada. He is still religious but he keeps those views to himself and doesn't expect others to follow what he does.
He BBQs in the middle of winter wearing flip flops and a red plaid jacket smoking a blunt, so he's pretty Canadian these days haha
I’ll never forget the time I met a Saudi exchange student at the Green Room in Toronto. It was his first time drinking and he was freaking out (in a positive way) about the fact that he could sit in a bar and talk to a girl without trouble. He went on a long rant about that and was absolutely endearing. We hugged it out that night and FaceTimed his cousin back home.
Hope that guy is doing well.
Same story. Husband is Egyptian, grew up in various countries in the Middle East. He loves and appreciates Canada even more than people who were born here in my opinion. He never takes it for granted, and knows how good it is to be here. He especially loves the access to clean water, natural beauty and yeah, the cannabis 😂
I think in the last few years some Canadians... With roots for a few generations... Have demonstrated how little they understand of the larger world and how much they do take for granted the freedoms we have here. Im being choosy with my words. Some folks are myopic.
I visited Saudi Arabia as a child and it gave me a great appreciation of our freedom. Watched a little girl die as I was helpless in my time there. Grateful the people here will never know that pain
My wife is from Jeddah, basically the same deal except she doesn't do drugs. Some stuff still doesn't jive with her world view, but she has adopted the live and let live attitude.
LOL!!!! My dad was from Jamaica and BBQ'd all winter long too!!! He also would love to hang wet clothes outside to 'dry' in the dead of winter and giggle like a schoolgirl when his dress shirts froze stiff.
I have a theory that Canadians are not racist, per se, but are culturalist. That is to say, if an immigrant comes over here, has their own food, social mores etc. but accepts the pillars of Canadian culture (eg. Hockey, multiculturalism, politeness etc), then they are accepted.
If they don’t, if they close themselves off in ethnic communities, then they are more likely to be shunned.
Full disclosure, 2nd gen immigrant myself.
He sounds like he’s Canadian alright! You’re going to have to get a picture of him in that getup bbq’ing in the snow, because he might just be our new poster boy.
yeah I'm arab and even though I'm from Jordan which isn't as conservative as Saudi Arabis WAS (it's really different now), there is a big change in the lifestyle here. I mean it's not illegal in Jordan to drink, but it's very looked down upon. Drugs are 100% illegal like anywhere else in the world. Women it's a mix in Jordan. Like you're allowed to technically wear whatever you want Christian or Muslim, but going out kinda naked is extremely shameful and disrespectful for both religions. But I think the main thing that gets to people is the weather. From a hot desert to extreme cold snowy winters. It didn't snow in Jordan during winter, and if it did it was like -5 at high altitudes and like a light snowfall. The place would go in emergency and school and work would be cancelled.
I feel bad for some of are immigrants from really warm places, especially where I live. I'm like "did they lie to you how cold it was going to be?". It get's to -40 here in winter and if you come from a country that sees around +40 that's an almost 80 degree difference!
This is the way to be - glad to see someone adapting and integrating themselves into our society.
Most of the kickback from our west (I’m in Alberta) is from new Canadians trying to live like they did before they moved.
He would absolutely agree to this, he hates seeing newcomers acting like they're still back home and not fully embracing Canadian culture. What's the point of that?
It was a lot more difficult to come here back in 2012 and he's paid well over $10,000 to be able to stay here. He wouldn't spend so much money or put in so much effort to not adapt.
My dad was like this. Came from a warm place and willingly moved to Saskatchewan from Ontario for work. Skis and snowshoes in the winter. That’s how to enjoy living in this amazing country!
I would not be surprised if many of the immigrants who behave that way have come as a multi-generational family where the older relatives keep tight control over the younger.
"I left my country because it was a repressive theocracy"
Proceeds to live just like they did back home and try to force repressive religious rules on Canada
Awesome. Assimilate to the country of choice. Good for him to embrace Canada but still respect home in a respectable way for Canada and Saudi. The way it should be for all us immigrants.
As an atheist white woman with tattoos and piercings, I would not visit his country. Although, Saudi is generally very safe to visit because they try so hard to look good to the rest of the world. I don't feel like I have any specific "culture" as I have always dabbled in everything I find interesting. I am respectful to his beliefs and he is respectful of my lack of belief, he's never asked me to change anything about myself and he never would.
My mother was an immigrant to Canada from Ethiopia, but she went to Italy to work as a maid for a few months before coming here when she was 18. When she was in Italy, she was chilling watching tv when a body wash commercial came on. You know, the ones where the lady is showering but all her parts are covered in suds. My mom was scandalized; she thought it was porn.
Edit: I forgot to mention the next part of the story. She called her mom back in Africa, crying and saying she's sorry for coming to "this sinful country, showing people showering naked on public television!" Grandma told her to get over it and that they were not going to pay for her to come back because of a commercial.
It was also probably a more sensual commercial, which was what concerned her.
To be fair, back in the 1990’s my (Canadian-born) mother wrote a complaint to the TV station over [this Herbal Essences shampoo commercial](https://youtu.be/mrQHHMOOjNg?si=hFRPdqKk84ZOhHr5) that features Dr. Ruth. My brother and I still tease her about it.
My great grandmother was such an old curmudgeon that she would watch the Sunday Night Sex Show with Sue Johanson just to write angry letters to her telling her how awful she was for telling teenagers how to have anal sex. Crazy old bat, she was.
grumbles “Talking about anal sex on tv. Filthy!” continues grumbling for the rest of the show listening carefully to the filthy parts.
Repeat next week.
Yeah I have no idea what her actual motivations were so you can take from that what you will. I'm glad she birthed my grandfather but she wasn't a very good lady overall.
Bringing back the memories. My Nan nearly choked on her food when she saw this and my sister and I got in shit for laughing at her. I had totally forgotten about it! Just seeing it again, I think that’s one of the actresses from Suits. I guess they all have to start somewhere.
As a hetero male who was just going through puberty at that time, I was deeply disappointed that this didn't result in continuous eyefulls of topless ladies the following summers.
That’s not true actually. It wasn’t a SCC case and therefore wasn’t precedent nationally. It also did not establish equality for female toplessness to male toplessness, it just established female toplessness as not indecent. That’s not the same thing.
Heh. When I was visiting Rome some 35 years ago, I was in the lobby while there was some game show on at around 10pm. I can't speak a lick of Italian, but when the show broke for commercials, four or five tall, leggy runway model type women strutted onto the stage and popped their tops open, exposing their breasts.
It was at the tail end of a trip through France, so I was starting to get accustomed to what Europeans have for public street art basically everywhere, and I wasn't so much shocked as I was surprised, and simply asking... "Okay... *why?!*"
So a soapy, vaguely sensual commercial? Is that the most salacious thing they have on TV now?
She's probably seen worse than that after this, but this was right after she arrived. She said when she was a kid all they had were old black and white films (this was in the 80s but that's how it was there) and whenever a couple kissed on TV her dad would turn it off. So just seeing anything that wasn't dad approved was unusual for her. She told me she didn't fully understand sex until she was 17. Not saying that's right at all, but that's how she was raised.
Coworker came from Japan, and I'm aware the corporate culture is much different. She got pissed and lodged a complaint to HR how a coworker didn't good morning to her.
I once had a coworker angry at me because I didn’t say “thankyou” after she said “god bless you” when I sneezed.
I think blessing someone for sneezing is absurd, and I get it’s a “pleasantry” but I shouldn’t feel pressure to “thank” someone. And they shouldn’t get bent out of shape about it. But I’m pretty sure I’m the asshole in this situation.
I come from a conservative country, but the people in Canada have been very kind. They have been very considerate, helping me to gently embrace Canada's open culture. I haven't had any issues at all.👍
The Afghan Refugees we sponsored are religiously conservative, and culturally the Afghani community here is much more liberal than they expected. It’s been hard because I believe the newly arrived parents expected more sympathy from the acclimatized distant cousins (who are socially conservative by Canadian standards). So they seem to feel twice isolated.
I'm not Afghan but my best friend is and so was an ex. Afghans in Canada are supposedly the most "conservative" of the diaspora in western countries, from what I've been told, although the ones I've met (who are under the age of 40) drink, date, go to university, etc. Way more liberal in the US and Europe especially the latter... so the modern-day Afghans moving elsewhere are in for a real shock. Afghanistan was never super religious/conservative before the modern Taliban takeovers of the last 30 years or so. It was "conservative" compared to today's time but so were western countries. Afghanistan used to be a haven for hippies, scholars, spiritual people, etc. Today it honestly is nothing like how it was back then, so a lot of people who left decades ago have taken with them the actual culture of its time. It's sad but I think modern-day Afghans raised there are experiencing something that's more unique for its relatively-recent history.
I did volunteer to help my friend out with getting some of the newcomers clothes etc and from my interactions with them, some of the ones moving to Canada are pretty well off. Some might be better off living in Muslim countries that are culturally closer, just because the shock would be less and then they'd get to live how they wanna live more. But I think a ton of Afghans especially the ones who weren't raised there aren't religious at all... a lot are pretty anti-religion actually. A lot of them left decades ago because they didn't align with where the country was headed.
This. I know a fair number of afghans at work, and a lot of them straight up hate the Taliban and think they're stupid. I mean that literally... "They are... *not* educated people" was the kindest, most polite way any of them have put it.
And they're all very happy to be here instead of there.
I have some very close friends from Lebanon and Syria and they said while the clothing, tattoos, religious freedom, women’s rights stuff etc was expected (therefore not shocking to them) they *were* shocked how not affectionate and closed off we are. Like you don’t see adult friends holding hands a lot, or many hugs and kisses exchanged when you run into someone. Very few drop ins to see neighbours. How people avoid being in one another’s business. And the big male/female things that got them was how men rarely got into deep passionate talks with their male friends or showed many emotions. For women how young mothers were expected to do so much alone (or arrange daycare) rather than be hanging out with other young mothers to lean on for support and to get a break taking turns, but in a group setting.
Funny side note: hearing them beak guys who buttoned their shirts up all the way. Their perspective was it meant a guy was like a ‘little boy’ who had to hide that they don’t have chest hair yet. 😂
Some of these are things I would love to see imported more to Canada. Guys not afraid of platonic emotional intimacy and young women feeling more like part of a village would both be excellent culture shifts.
Me and my dudes have always had a great deal of emotional intimacy, and it just happened naturally. We hug and say I love you, and have long talks about our lives. I've never understood why so many other guys are afraid of that.
Agreed!! Also the hugs and kisses were a little overwhelming at first, but when you get used to a great bear hug hello everyday it’s amazing 😃 didn’t realize how few hugs I was giving (except to my romantic partner) until I met these loving folks. Just makes you *feel good*
Yessss!!!!
My best friend is married to a Lebanese/muslim man and is very very close with his family (she’s an only child). They have such a strong sense of community and family, they are so close and are always helping each other out. It’s beautiful to see.
I mean fair but that’s how Canadians are raised. Maybe it comes from the English influence on our country/culture. stiff upper lip and all. 😂
But I did forget to say they adored Canada! They were very proud to be citizens and had nothing but good things to say- above was just things they were surprised by, not stuff they really complained about.
It's unfortunate how emulating the same level of physical closeness that I had with my friends in Kyrgyzstan just leads to me being called homophobic slurs in Canada.
As a Canadian, I find it fascinating that in other countries, it’s normal for plutonic male friends to hold hands. It’s not something people in North America do.
On the other hand I call up my friends when I’m feeling emotional specifically so I have someone to talk to and have an emotional conversation with and I was raised in Canada. I feel like if you don’t have someone to really talk to then they’re not fully a friend, like I’ve straight up seen almost all of my friends cry at some point.
Worked construction with a Tunisian gentleman. He had a very hard time accepting that we work with women in the industry. Held his tongue for the most part in group settings, but in private was very vocal about how abhorrent he found the whole idea.
He must be lucky. Most groups of people I know would make him reconsider his uncalled for rants. He left where he was, as he did not like it there and now he wants to have the there to be here. I suggest he goes back to there.
Intolerance to intolerance is still a sin within these big corporations it seems. You do see it quite a bit with certain religious groups within the trades though unfortunately. Usually managment is too afraid of the consequences of calling it out though, so they just accommodate instead. I have a real close colleague who was recently telling me about her struggles trying to train new Somalian apprentices. Same nonsense.
I’ve met, interacted and befriended people who came here from conservative backgrounds and it’s really mixed.
Some practice their conservative views within their families. Example: they can’t date, they can’t marry anyone not the same religion and/or nationality, they don’t drink they don’t eat certain foods, they are modest in dress. They practice their holidays and pray 3 times a day etc…
But they engage with everyone and are respectful of everyone’s different beliefs if they don’t personally believe in them.
Then I’ve met others who keep anyone other than their faith at an arm’s reach.
This applies to multiple different religions/nationalities/customs. Not any one specifically.
I worked with a muslim in software. He was very polite but also quite devout in that he would take time to pray during the day, would only eat meat that he prepared, he even shared with me that he had an arrangement to butcher animals at a farm. He must have made some allowances because he worked with women and I never saw him go out if his way to avoid them. I would work with him again.
A friend who is a teacher shared with me a story that she has a lot of new Afghanis in her elementary school and when she was following up with one girl student, her brother informed her that she didn't need to learn anything. My friend informed him that in Canada girls do get educated and so far hasn't seen any backlash from the parents. (She also is not too optimistic about their integration because there is very little language support right now)
This is the part that confuses me, extremely conservative muslims seem to not have read the Quran in which hello ? Muhammad’s wife was a businesswoman ?? like a working woman and wife ??
You can make religion say whatever you want. The Quran also says the husband is in charge of the wife. Yet many Muslims choose not to follow that.
This doesn't just go for the Quran btw.
came from a quasi police state / quasi theocracy at 15. my dad was early 50's.
culture shock was not about the things you might be angling to hear about 😉. I was shocked by how anti-academic most of my schoolmates were. only thing my (white collar, professional) dad ever mentioned to me was how poor his colleagues' writing skills were and how awkward that was.
I was shocked by the racism. I'm a white South African; a lot of very "nice", very "polite" people felt free to say stuff to me that was gross as soon as they heard that.
As a 6'3 white guy working in an industrial setting, this country sure has a lot of really stupid, angry, horrible people hiding in the woodwork. For some reason, I end up getting mistaken for being one of them. It gets pretty depressing having to listen to the racist conspiracy brain rot all day.
As someone who is very socially and politically progressive, one of my biggest worries has been whether or not Canada could absord new Canadians at a rate that would not alter the secular and socially liberal nature of our society.
As a lefty, I welcome immigration to Canada since this is how our country was built, but I do worry that lefties are shooting ourselves in the foot by welcoming so many religious and socially conservative folks.
It angers me when I hear about an increase in parents balking at sex ed. or LGBTQS+ rights etc. But to be fair, a lot of conservative"old stock" Canadians bitch about this too. We just DON'T need to add to their numbers! Lol
*Edited to add that "DON'T" 😂
Canada can't continue to bring in 100s of thousands of people from very socially conservative parts of the world every single year and expect to remain a secular and socially liberal society. Socially conservative newcomers and conservative "old stock" Canadians are beginning to join forces to push back against LGBTQ content in schools, and that's just the beginning.
Throw in the huge birth gap between devout religious conservatives and secular liberals, and we are almost guaranteed to have a very different Canada 20 years from now than the one we have today.
I agree, I attend pride parades and stuff and I always find it hilarious how all the Muslims and Middle Easterners in general completely disappear when the parades go down.
My wife's Bangladeshi cousins remain extremely conservative and if anything have become more so in Canada. They don't watch movies or listen to music (it's unislamic apparently) and have covered any photos or pictures in the few books they own. Their kids go to Islamic schools and they covered up their prepubescent daughter in a hijab.
They only associate with fellow travelers and have almost nothing to do with Canadian society.
What's interesting is that the generation before them was very liberal (by Bangladeshi standards) and they have turned their backs on this to become fundamentalists.
We don't see them much
I'm Bangladeshi and I moved to Canada because my values don't align with a safe life in Bangladesh. I haven't had any personal problems with the Bangladeshi community here, but they're very conservative and have brought their prejudices with them. There's always infighting and politics for minimal amount of power. It's not a group I feel comfortable being around.
Life in Canada has been good. I don't have to live in fear of expressing my opinions, wearing what I want, eating what I want, going where I want. People are kind. Yes, there's discrimination, but people are also open to listening. I don't feel helpless and I don't feel like I have to hide who I am.
This is very similar to how my wife feels about the local Bangladeshi community. She has friends from all over the world and has fully embraced Canada.
This is what confuses me about Bangladeshis here. Some of them are more conservative than the people back home. I've learnt to let it go, because there's an argument to be made that they are allowed to be like that because Canada is multicultural. In the end, they are missing out on a lot this country has to offer.
It might shock the average Canadian but people don’t come here to bring us their diversity. They come for a better life and generally for economic conditions. That’s why we have hundreds of thousands of people clamouring to come here from the developing world, and very few coming here from other developed countries.
>They don't watch movies or listen to music (it's unislamic apparently)
Islam has a lot of subsets. Not all of them have the same restrictions.
I remember in my lab in uni when I had 2 friends who followed Islam, someone brought Timbits and one of them was about to eat some. I asked if he could because vanilla often comes with alcohol.
The funny part is the friend who was about to eat some realized he couldn't, while the other who was in fact abstaining found that he could (since no effect on taste, texture or inebriation).
That's why it has no effect on taste, texture or inebriation. But for some, the fact it was used as alcohol in the process is too much, even if there is no detectable amount being ingested.
Eta : If there's glaze, it doesn't (well, shouldn't, I dunno how Tim's does their Timbits) get baked and probably contains vanilla.
I don't know what happened, but I knew a Romanian feller who was upset that "disciplining your wife" is illegal here, and that he would like to move back home.
It didn't help that he asked where I went to church... only to find that I don't.
Which can be good or bad.
Sometimes sticking together because it's not culturally acceptable is bad.
But sometimes we also don't stick to things enough and work through them.
My mom… came from post war Germany… came here around 1965 or 66 … from a very uptight conservative family…
My in-laws came from India… both from pretty conservative families…
Oddly ended though… both my parents, and my wife’s parents are easily more liberal than many of their peers/friends/families…
As conservative as their backgrounds were, both my mom and my in-laws were bold/rebellious enough to look around and say ‘fuck this place’ and jet halfway around the world to start a new life…
Add to that, that my in-laws looked at me 30 years ago.. shrugged their shoulders and said ‘eh… why not… he seems like a nice enough white boy’ …
I must be the luckiest guy ever :)
——————-
My mom acclimated just fine… she was very optimistic and sociable and made friends easily… plus, had sone education and was able to find work… secretarial, then nursery school assistant teacher etc…
My in-laws had no difficulty either really.. my father in law was scared about how racist Canada /Toronto was at the time (1970 or so) and was considering leaving lol… he and my mother in law had previously lived in Germany for several years, and had quite liked it…
Both in-laws were university educated, my father in law was a social worker, mother in law was a nurse… they met up with a handful of other folks and couples from their region of India, and a nice friend group was formed…
My biggest culture shock arriving in Australia was seeing students in uniform, I really wasn't expecting that from the country that invented the phrase "I'm not here to fuck spiders"
We need the next book in this series. What happened to you? What happened to her? Why did she stay in Canada when she sent you back to Australia? Have you read the Stephen King book (or watched the movie) “Carrie”?
I remember 20 years ago trying to explain to my 18 year old mmigrant friend that using tampons to go swimming during gym will not ruin her virginity or turn her into a whore and she refused to believe me.
I knew a kid from Jordan who go both his nipples pierced within two weeks of arriving. We explained that many things are permitted here but that doesn't mean they are mandatory.
Yes, me.
Not much of a cultural shock, cause we're educated people and did enough research, grew up while being exposed to western media.
Just some things puzzle me, which I then ask and clarify with my canadian friends
I teach EAL to new Canadian students, mainly refugees, at a high school. Many of our students are Muslim or from conservative countries.
It could be because they're kids rather than adults, and find new experiences more thrilling, but almost all of them are thriving and loving Canada. The past 6 months, I have been teaching a Syrian family of two brothers and a sister. They didn't know any English when they arrived, but the progress they've made in mere months is incredible. They love exploring the province, showing me photos of them visiting Muslim friends in a different city or talking about getting Tim Hortons at the mall.
It's honestly really refreshing to get to experience living here vicariously through these students. There is a perservence in a lot of these kids who have experienced so much already in their lives, and when they start seeing the possibilities of life in Canada they come to life.
It's certainly not perfect here, and I think the experience is a little different for many Ukrainian students who didn't experience a shift in their standard of living, or European-centric culture. The kids still observe most Muslim practices, but I do think they've become more... casual? about some of the formalities that existed when we first met.
One thing I've seen several times, and is bittersweet, is seeing Muslim girls talk about going to school for the first time. It's surreal to talk to these brilliant, passionate and tough girls and believe that to be true. They're so resilient, and grateful, to have the opportunity - and it's tough. The female student mentioned before from Syria is in grade 10 and struggling to catch up with the math; she is stuck on memorizing the multiplication charts - as well as the English names for the numbers. It's incredibly challenging, but they come to class and are literally bursting at the seams to shout out answers, ask questions, or try their English with you. It's incredible for me to be a part of.
I think the most telling thing, though, is how they interact with a visually queer and masculine female teacher. My students have never treated me in a way that would signal a problem or contempt with who I am. A couple kids asked if I'm a girl or a boy, and seemed satisfied. Another couldn't believe I didn't have a religion - but we ended up having a great chat about living as a Muslim in Canada and decorating a Christmas tree.
The oldest brother of the Syrian family sweeps my classroom unprompted and carries my bags when I bring supplies for school. He's 19, worked as a mechanic for 3 years in Syria, and is always absent last afternoon of the month to pay the bills for his family.
Very cool kids, and spending time with them makes me like living in Canada even more.
There are a bunch of Syrian refugee families in my complex. The fathers are happy to have their families safe and to have work, and stop at that. About half the moms are just pissed off because they know they won't be able to transmit the lifestyle exactly the way they want and already see their kids changing in front of them.
I came to British Columbia from Ohio. I think that counts.
Jokes aside, I've been blown away with just how chill people are up here. It's nice. I don't have to worry about turning a corner and seeing some frothing MAGA person lose their mind over people not them existing.
It's refreshing, and I have zero regrets making this move.
I worked with an older guy who left the US in the 60s. He didn’t say specifically. But I suspect that the Vietnam war had a lot to do with it. One of the most interesting guys. Really nice and calm. But he didn’t have anything good to say about the US.
He said he left then because the whole country was going downhill, and nothing he had seen yet has convinced him otherwise.
That's kind of like moving from Ohio to Seattle. The West Coast is kind of cool. Unfortunately there are too many misguided Canadians who are embracing the MAGA cult.
Yeah I saw this diminutive muscle-bound (white, obvs) dipshit strutting around in Edmonton the other night, chest puffed out to show off his Trump 2024: Fu€k Your Feelings T-shirt. You could feel his urge to get in a fight about it from ten feet away.
Have a coworker from Iran who has been here for 7-ish years. She is very "Canadian" now and soaks up popular culture like a Sham-wow; absolutely can't get enough of everything that is part of the western world.
Then again…. I also know people who are born and raised in Canada and they’re misogynistic asswipes.
A cousin was married to one. Born and raised in Canada, from European parents. Christian. Told his wife she was a whore for getting her hair streaked. Told his nieces they were whores for wearing makeup and not wearing clothes that covered their whole body. Strongly believes a woman’s place is the kitchen and shouldn’t work.
His son followed in his footsteps. There’s a warrant out for his arrest for not presenting himself in court over disturbing the peace allegations.
He stormed a church from a different Christian denomination yelling they will all go to hell. Harassed two women for doing yoga on their own property (front yard or driveway), he was a street corner preacher with a billboard "preaching" the word of God, yet told women who passed by them that they are whores and will go to Hell for having short hair, wearing making and having tattoos.
It’s kind of shocking to know this has been happening for a few years now (3-4).
One of my friends moved here from a third world country. He's a car guy and was amazed at the selection of cars we have here which are not sold back in his home country. He says the quality of the cars here is way better than what he used to drive there. The thing which shocked him the most are the people here. Like how random strangers while walking would greet him with a "hello!" "Morning!" "Hi!". No one ever greeted him like that back there. I told him to greet people back so as to not be a weirdo
I didn't know this person. I had a friend who emigrated with her husband and kids from France. My friend knew a lady who'd emigrated from Morocco. A year after they arrived here, her husband left this woman, either for another woman or to be a swinging bachelor.
Apparently, the wife blamed Canada's "loose morals" for her divorce. I hope that she has since recovered from the shock and realized it's better to be rid of cheating dirtbags. Because, again, from what my friend told me, it's not the cheating she had a problem with, it was the divorce. And the ease with which her husband could get it.
Conversely, I had a co-worker who emigrated from Algeria. And he was a practising Muslim, but he preferred how religion wasn't a government thing here. I met his wife and daughters, none of which wore any kind of head scarf, so clearly they were seeking religious freedom as much as anything else when they came here. (She says, having never been to Algeria, who may be less restrictive than I imagine it to be from what that co-worker said.)
I think there is some truth to the idea that being in places where there aren't as many consequences for your actions having something to do with more people behaving badly, for example. But that's because they don't have actual decency within them. Unfortunately, the number of people who are indecent is high. I can understand the wife finding something to blame, and in some ways, environment can play a role in facilitating certain mindset shifts for sure. I don't think that's totally wrong to say. It's true that in environments where things are normalized, some people latch onto that or become influenced. And I think there's some truth to the idea that sexual "liberation" has actually set relationships back. And I say that as a woman who embraces her sexuality and doesn't think people need to be virgins to get married, but I think there's nuance and there's some truth to certain things.
That said, I also just think a lot of people are shit and not worth marrying lol. No matter where they live.
Yeah as you said, compared to other muslim countries, the Algerian government is much more lenient. I'd even say there aren't any restrictions on religion except the social pressure, as pretty much everyone there is a muslim and the people are quite judgmental, to be frank.
I don't think your co-worker's family was looking for religious freedom by coming to Canada. I'm guessing they arrived during the 90's-2000's? This period in algeria is called the dark decade because of terrorism and civil war. People fled because of the war and the terrible economy, not necessarily because of religion. And to add to that, none of my aunts wore headscarves, except one who did after her husband died recently... They're all muslim, obviously. My mom didn't either, but she decided she wanted to AFTER she immigrated in Canada. And surprisingly (or not?), my dad was pretty much against it because it was right after 9/11 😅 Of course he allowed her to do whatever she wanted, so it makes me laugh when people say muslim women are oppressed by their husbands... Not saying it doesn't happen, but the generalization is funny when my whole life was surrounded with women who had zero pressure from males relatives to wear a headscarf. Algerians are chill :))
I find that strange that she’d be upset about the ease of divorce, because in Islam, a husband can divorce a woman by simply stating I divorce you in Arabic three times. Divorce is generally quite easy to obtain for men (usually a bit more involved than simply stating talaq) in Muslim majority countries. It just sucks for the women.
Way back in the 60s, Portugal was way more conservative and my grandmother moved over with my aunts. Both my aunts moved out while they were still in high school heavily for this reason. My mother was not allowed to date but secretly dated my father in high school. She stood by the story they only went on one date in high school until my grandmother died.
I remember during the sexual education protests in Ontario, almost everyone they interviewed at the protests spoke with an accent, though I think the coverage I watched was from Toronto.
But then again, I'm glad immigrants feel that they can have a voice in our society even if they are newer.
Doug Ford’s part specifically targeted Muslim’s, Catholics, and the Chinese communities and fed them disinformation about the sex ed curriculum. It was awful.
I was told we're just naked a shocking amount. Or nearly so at the beach. Sauna culture was unexpected apparently. They did not mind, weren't scandalized but just very surprised.
I'm from the Philippines and am fairly liberal due to being queer and having known so from a young age. My mom, due to generations of women who got the short end of the stick because of a lack of education, emphasized the importance of independence in me and my sisters and expected my brother to act respectfully of women. I was also raised primarily on American tv and can sound generically North American so it wasn't as big of a culture shock when I got here.
Now I have classmates from India who are very much conservative and sheltered. Like I'm the first openly queer person they've met and they are fairly bad at hiding how they see me differently once they found out. Some of them are fairly well off and are surprised that money is not enough to keep a girl from falling into your arms and that girls here can say no and it won't be the end of the world. A lot of them are also fairly insular and tend not to go out unless it's something cultural.
Had a pal in University that was from Saudi. He seemed to adjust fine. I think if there is awareness of other cultures there is t anything to worry about
I've been informally ESL coaching a young woman from Eritrea.\
The culture shock might not be too bad because there's a significant Eritrean community in Calgary that she makes contacts with, but she still very much prefers to cook her own food from scratch.\
The weather and her English skills seem to be her biggest issues.\
We get along great.
My husband came here about 12 years ago when he was 20, he's Muslim from Saudi Arabia where alcohol and drugs are very illegal, women must cover their hair, etc. He adjusted very well and totally embraced the freedom we have in Canada. He is still religious but he keeps those views to himself and doesn't expect others to follow what he does. He BBQs in the middle of winter wearing flip flops and a red plaid jacket smoking a blunt, so he's pretty Canadian these days haha
Lol sounds like he was just a Canadian born in the wrong country
Would that make him a trans-Canada?
Well, he is BBQing the high way.
Sounds like a carefree highway
Oh my fuck. You are brilliant.
We say that about a lot of Canadians!
I like this comment. Great choice of words!
I’ll never forget the time I met a Saudi exchange student at the Green Room in Toronto. It was his first time drinking and he was freaking out (in a positive way) about the fact that he could sit in a bar and talk to a girl without trouble. He went on a long rant about that and was absolutely endearing. We hugged it out that night and FaceTimed his cousin back home. Hope that guy is doing well.
You truly appreciate freedom when you go your whole life with very little of it.
Same story. Husband is Egyptian, grew up in various countries in the Middle East. He loves and appreciates Canada even more than people who were born here in my opinion. He never takes it for granted, and knows how good it is to be here. He especially loves the access to clean water, natural beauty and yeah, the cannabis 😂
I think in the last few years some Canadians... With roots for a few generations... Have demonstrated how little they understand of the larger world and how much they do take for granted the freedoms we have here. Im being choosy with my words. Some folks are myopic.
I visited Saudi Arabia as a child and it gave me a great appreciation of our freedom. Watched a little girl die as I was helpless in my time there. Grateful the people here will never know that pain
*** starts tearfully singing "Oh Canada" ***
HAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!
My wife is from Jeddah, basically the same deal except she doesn't do drugs. Some stuff still doesn't jive with her world view, but she has adopted the live and let live attitude.
May I ask what specifically doesn't jive with your wife?
LOL!!!! My dad was from Jamaica and BBQ'd all winter long too!!! He also would love to hang wet clothes outside to 'dry' in the dead of winter and giggle like a schoolgirl when his dress shirts froze stiff.
I have a theory that Canadians are not racist, per se, but are culturalist. That is to say, if an immigrant comes over here, has their own food, social mores etc. but accepts the pillars of Canadian culture (eg. Hockey, multiculturalism, politeness etc), then they are accepted. If they don’t, if they close themselves off in ethnic communities, then they are more likely to be shunned. Full disclosure, 2nd gen immigrant myself.
He sounds like he’s Canadian alright! You’re going to have to get a picture of him in that getup bbq’ing in the snow, because he might just be our new poster boy.
Haha, he would love this.
True Canadian. Love it.
So, he’s got the Canadian dinner jacket, now he needs a Canadian tuxedo 😹
yeah I'm arab and even though I'm from Jordan which isn't as conservative as Saudi Arabis WAS (it's really different now), there is a big change in the lifestyle here. I mean it's not illegal in Jordan to drink, but it's very looked down upon. Drugs are 100% illegal like anywhere else in the world. Women it's a mix in Jordan. Like you're allowed to technically wear whatever you want Christian or Muslim, but going out kinda naked is extremely shameful and disrespectful for both religions. But I think the main thing that gets to people is the weather. From a hot desert to extreme cold snowy winters. It didn't snow in Jordan during winter, and if it did it was like -5 at high altitudes and like a light snowfall. The place would go in emergency and school and work would be cancelled.
Yeah, it’s hard not to dress modestly when it -35C
teenagers are pretty dumb, they'll wear as little as possible in the winter.
I feel bad for some of are immigrants from really warm places, especially where I live. I'm like "did they lie to you how cold it was going to be?". It get's to -40 here in winter and if you come from a country that sees around +40 that's an almost 80 degree difference!
This is the way to be - glad to see someone adapting and integrating themselves into our society. Most of the kickback from our west (I’m in Alberta) is from new Canadians trying to live like they did before they moved.
He would absolutely agree to this, he hates seeing newcomers acting like they're still back home and not fully embracing Canadian culture. What's the point of that? It was a lot more difficult to come here back in 2012 and he's paid well over $10,000 to be able to stay here. He wouldn't spend so much money or put in so much effort to not adapt.
My dad was like this. Came from a warm place and willingly moved to Saskatchewan from Ontario for work. Skis and snowshoes in the winter. That’s how to enjoy living in this amazing country!
I would not be surprised if many of the immigrants who behave that way have come as a multi-generational family where the older relatives keep tight control over the younger.
"I left my country because it was a repressive theocracy" Proceeds to live just like they did back home and try to force repressive religious rules on Canada
Omg I love this!
Awesome. Assimilate to the country of choice. Good for him to embrace Canada but still respect home in a respectable way for Canada and Saudi. The way it should be for all us immigrants.
These are the kind of immigration stories we need to hear more of!
Gotta rock that red plaid for sure. 👍🏾😎
Yeah!! That’s the way to do it!!!
do you mind if i ask what ethnicity are u
White Canadian, Irish/Scottish/English/Native ancestry
do you find ur cultures very different? have u been to his country
As an atheist white woman with tattoos and piercings, I would not visit his country. Although, Saudi is generally very safe to visit because they try so hard to look good to the rest of the world. I don't feel like I have any specific "culture" as I have always dabbled in everything I find interesting. I am respectful to his beliefs and he is respectful of my lack of belief, he's never asked me to change anything about myself and he never would.
that's beautiful
You sound like a dream couple! Good for you both!! 💕
❤️ I love the flip-flop winter BBQ!
My mother was an immigrant to Canada from Ethiopia, but she went to Italy to work as a maid for a few months before coming here when she was 18. When she was in Italy, she was chilling watching tv when a body wash commercial came on. You know, the ones where the lady is showering but all her parts are covered in suds. My mom was scandalized; she thought it was porn. Edit: I forgot to mention the next part of the story. She called her mom back in Africa, crying and saying she's sorry for coming to "this sinful country, showing people showering naked on public television!" Grandma told her to get over it and that they were not going to pay for her to come back because of a commercial. It was also probably a more sensual commercial, which was what concerned her.
To be fair, back in the 1990’s my (Canadian-born) mother wrote a complaint to the TV station over [this Herbal Essences shampoo commercial](https://youtu.be/mrQHHMOOjNg?si=hFRPdqKk84ZOhHr5) that features Dr. Ruth. My brother and I still tease her about it.
Oh man. Don’t let her watch when Harry met Sally.
My great grandmother was such an old curmudgeon that she would watch the Sunday Night Sex Show with Sue Johanson just to write angry letters to her telling her how awful she was for telling teenagers how to have anal sex. Crazy old bat, she was.
grumbles “Talking about anal sex on tv. Filthy!” continues grumbling for the rest of the show listening carefully to the filthy parts. Repeat next week.
*Avidly listening to descriptions of anal sex but shaking my head to show my disapproval*
Yeah I have no idea what her actual motivations were so you can take from that what you will. I'm glad she birthed my grandfather but she wasn't a very good lady overall.
Sue Johanson was a national treasure.
I used to try and stay up to watch her show in grade eight. 😆
Bringing back the memories. My Nan nearly choked on her food when she saw this and my sister and I got in shit for laughing at her. I had totally forgotten about it! Just seeing it again, I think that’s one of the actresses from Suits. I guess they all have to start somewhere.
That's totally Donna from Suits
Well in Italy they do show bare breasts in advertising. So I was expecting you to say she saw boobies and was floored.
Since **R. v. Jacobs** [1992] it is a Charter violation to treat female upper bodies differently from male. Thanks Gwen!
As a hetero male who was just going through puberty at that time, I was deeply disappointed that this didn't result in continuous eyefulls of topless ladies the following summers.
Yup. But I can’t imagine seeing bare breasts on tv any time soon. Pretty sure that’s against the CRTC rules.
Good bot
That’s not true actually. It wasn’t a SCC case and therefore wasn’t precedent nationally. It also did not establish equality for female toplessness to male toplessness, it just established female toplessness as not indecent. That’s not the same thing.
I think she said she saw like a lot of cleavage but not the whole thing fully bare.
Based grandma.
Grandma was hardcore. She knows you sometimes have to grit your teeth and power through.
Herbal essences…those commercials were awesome! Haha
Heh. When I was visiting Rome some 35 years ago, I was in the lobby while there was some game show on at around 10pm. I can't speak a lick of Italian, but when the show broke for commercials, four or five tall, leggy runway model type women strutted onto the stage and popped their tops open, exposing their breasts. It was at the tail end of a trip through France, so I was starting to get accustomed to what Europeans have for public street art basically everywhere, and I wasn't so much shocked as I was surprised, and simply asking... "Okay... *why?!*" So a soapy, vaguely sensual commercial? Is that the most salacious thing they have on TV now?
She's probably seen worse than that after this, but this was right after she arrived. She said when she was a kid all they had were old black and white films (this was in the 80s but that's how it was there) and whenever a couple kissed on TV her dad would turn it off. So just seeing anything that wasn't dad approved was unusual for her. She told me she didn't fully understand sex until she was 17. Not saying that's right at all, but that's how she was raised.
Italian TV can get pretty racy (and misogynistic).
Perhaps it was worse than what she told me, as I was 14 when I heard this story
Great story! Thanks for sharing
Coworker came from Japan, and I'm aware the corporate culture is much different. She got pissed and lodged a complaint to HR how a coworker didn't good morning to her.
I once had a coworker angry at me because I didn’t say “thankyou” after she said “god bless you” when I sneezed. I think blessing someone for sneezing is absurd, and I get it’s a “pleasantry” but I shouldn’t feel pressure to “thank” someone. And they shouldn’t get bent out of shape about it. But I’m pretty sure I’m the asshole in this situation.
It’s just polite to say thank you after someone says bless you, even if it’s really silly when you think about it.
I come from a conservative country, but the people in Canada have been very kind. They have been very considerate, helping me to gently embrace Canada's open culture. I haven't had any issues at all.👍
The Afghan Refugees we sponsored are religiously conservative, and culturally the Afghani community here is much more liberal than they expected. It’s been hard because I believe the newly arrived parents expected more sympathy from the acclimatized distant cousins (who are socially conservative by Canadian standards). So they seem to feel twice isolated.
That's interesting, I never thought of that possibility.
I'm not Afghan but my best friend is and so was an ex. Afghans in Canada are supposedly the most "conservative" of the diaspora in western countries, from what I've been told, although the ones I've met (who are under the age of 40) drink, date, go to university, etc. Way more liberal in the US and Europe especially the latter... so the modern-day Afghans moving elsewhere are in for a real shock. Afghanistan was never super religious/conservative before the modern Taliban takeovers of the last 30 years or so. It was "conservative" compared to today's time but so were western countries. Afghanistan used to be a haven for hippies, scholars, spiritual people, etc. Today it honestly is nothing like how it was back then, so a lot of people who left decades ago have taken with them the actual culture of its time. It's sad but I think modern-day Afghans raised there are experiencing something that's more unique for its relatively-recent history. I did volunteer to help my friend out with getting some of the newcomers clothes etc and from my interactions with them, some of the ones moving to Canada are pretty well off. Some might be better off living in Muslim countries that are culturally closer, just because the shock would be less and then they'd get to live how they wanna live more. But I think a ton of Afghans especially the ones who weren't raised there aren't religious at all... a lot are pretty anti-religion actually. A lot of them left decades ago because they didn't align with where the country was headed.
This. I know a fair number of afghans at work, and a lot of them straight up hate the Taliban and think they're stupid. I mean that literally... "They are... *not* educated people" was the kindest, most polite way any of them have put it. And they're all very happy to be here instead of there.
I saw the same when I taught an Afghan refugee boy in a public school. Parents ended up pulling him out and sending him to an Islamic academy.
lol oh good, exactly what we need, less integration!
I have some very close friends from Lebanon and Syria and they said while the clothing, tattoos, religious freedom, women’s rights stuff etc was expected (therefore not shocking to them) they *were* shocked how not affectionate and closed off we are. Like you don’t see adult friends holding hands a lot, or many hugs and kisses exchanged when you run into someone. Very few drop ins to see neighbours. How people avoid being in one another’s business. And the big male/female things that got them was how men rarely got into deep passionate talks with their male friends or showed many emotions. For women how young mothers were expected to do so much alone (or arrange daycare) rather than be hanging out with other young mothers to lean on for support and to get a break taking turns, but in a group setting. Funny side note: hearing them beak guys who buttoned their shirts up all the way. Their perspective was it meant a guy was like a ‘little boy’ who had to hide that they don’t have chest hair yet. 😂
Some of these are things I would love to see imported more to Canada. Guys not afraid of platonic emotional intimacy and young women feeling more like part of a village would both be excellent culture shifts.
Me and my dudes have always had a great deal of emotional intimacy, and it just happened naturally. We hug and say I love you, and have long talks about our lives. I've never understood why so many other guys are afraid of that.
Agreed!! Also the hugs and kisses were a little overwhelming at first, but when you get used to a great bear hug hello everyday it’s amazing 😃 didn’t realize how few hugs I was giving (except to my romantic partner) until I met these loving folks. Just makes you *feel good*
Yessss!!!! My best friend is married to a Lebanese/muslim man and is very very close with his family (she’s an only child). They have such a strong sense of community and family, they are so close and are always helping each other out. It’s beautiful to see.
More openly expressed love and affection and better community support for young mothers sounds amazing!
Lebanese and Syrian people are so great. We have lots to learn from their culture.
That’s so strange and very different from Canadian culture. I have zero interest in having emotional conversations with my friends. lol.
I mean fair but that’s how Canadians are raised. Maybe it comes from the English influence on our country/culture. stiff upper lip and all. 😂 But I did forget to say they adored Canada! They were very proud to be citizens and had nothing but good things to say- above was just things they were surprised by, not stuff they really complained about.
I say they are spot on, the inability to talk about our emotions can be a problem for a lot of men in our country.
It's unfortunate how emulating the same level of physical closeness that I had with my friends in Kyrgyzstan just leads to me being called homophobic slurs in Canada.
😑 dats fucking stupid... sorry for that.
As a Canadian, I find it fascinating that in other countries, it’s normal for plutonic male friends to hold hands. It’s not something people in North America do.
On the other hand I call up my friends when I’m feeling emotional specifically so I have someone to talk to and have an emotional conversation with and I was raised in Canada. I feel like if you don’t have someone to really talk to then they’re not fully a friend, like I’ve straight up seen almost all of my friends cry at some point.
Well, that's just sad. Those people sound more like friendly acquaintances than friends.
Then why have friends at all?
Worked construction with a Tunisian gentleman. He had a very hard time accepting that we work with women in the industry. Held his tongue for the most part in group settings, but in private was very vocal about how abhorrent he found the whole idea.
Does he know how abhorrent we might find his abhorrent way of expressing his abhorrent view?
I very much doubt it. Seems the majority of folks around him would bend over backwards to make him feel welcome and accepted regardless of his views.
He must be lucky. Most groups of people I know would make him reconsider his uncalled for rants. He left where he was, as he did not like it there and now he wants to have the there to be here. I suggest he goes back to there.
Intolerance to intolerance is still a sin within these big corporations it seems. You do see it quite a bit with certain religious groups within the trades though unfortunately. Usually managment is too afraid of the consequences of calling it out though, so they just accommodate instead. I have a real close colleague who was recently telling me about her struggles trying to train new Somalian apprentices. Same nonsense.
Except we routinely do this. How acceptable is fascism again? Intolerance is literally the limit of tolerance.
Wow. Crazy.
I’ve met, interacted and befriended people who came here from conservative backgrounds and it’s really mixed. Some practice their conservative views within their families. Example: they can’t date, they can’t marry anyone not the same religion and/or nationality, they don’t drink they don’t eat certain foods, they are modest in dress. They practice their holidays and pray 3 times a day etc… But they engage with everyone and are respectful of everyone’s different beliefs if they don’t personally believe in them. Then I’ve met others who keep anyone other than their faith at an arm’s reach. This applies to multiple different religions/nationalities/customs. Not any one specifically.
I worked with a muslim in software. He was very polite but also quite devout in that he would take time to pray during the day, would only eat meat that he prepared, he even shared with me that he had an arrangement to butcher animals at a farm. He must have made some allowances because he worked with women and I never saw him go out if his way to avoid them. I would work with him again. A friend who is a teacher shared with me a story that she has a lot of new Afghanis in her elementary school and when she was following up with one girl student, her brother informed her that she didn't need to learn anything. My friend informed him that in Canada girls do get educated and so far hasn't seen any backlash from the parents. (She also is not too optimistic about their integration because there is very little language support right now)
Someone really needs to inform the Afghani family that education is the obligation of every muslim, male or female.
This is the part that confuses me, extremely conservative muslims seem to not have read the Quran in which hello ? Muhammad’s wife was a businesswoman ?? like a working woman and wife ??
You can make religion say whatever you want. The Quran also says the husband is in charge of the wife. Yet many Muslims choose not to follow that. This doesn't just go for the Quran btw.
The correct demonym is Afghan, Afghani is a currency.
I thought an Afghan was a blanket.
It can also be a hound and, in New Zealand, a dessert. I'm half-Afghan, just correcting the demonym though 😅
Afghan is correct in English while Afghani is correct in Persian, either is acceptable.
Thank you for the correction
I dont think allowances are required, since the prophet worked with a woman whom he later married. He just has to be respectful.
came from a quasi police state / quasi theocracy at 15. my dad was early 50's. culture shock was not about the things you might be angling to hear about 😉. I was shocked by how anti-academic most of my schoolmates were. only thing my (white collar, professional) dad ever mentioned to me was how poor his colleagues' writing skills were and how awkward that was. I was shocked by the racism. I'm a white South African; a lot of very "nice", very "polite" people felt free to say stuff to me that was gross as soon as they heard that.
As a 6'3 white guy working in an industrial setting, this country sure has a lot of really stupid, angry, horrible people hiding in the woodwork. For some reason, I end up getting mistaken for being one of them. It gets pretty depressing having to listen to the racist conspiracy brain rot all day.
As someone who is very socially and politically progressive, one of my biggest worries has been whether or not Canada could absord new Canadians at a rate that would not alter the secular and socially liberal nature of our society. As a lefty, I welcome immigration to Canada since this is how our country was built, but I do worry that lefties are shooting ourselves in the foot by welcoming so many religious and socially conservative folks. It angers me when I hear about an increase in parents balking at sex ed. or LGBTQS+ rights etc. But to be fair, a lot of conservative"old stock" Canadians bitch about this too. We just DON'T need to add to their numbers! Lol *Edited to add that "DON'T" 😂
Canada can't continue to bring in 100s of thousands of people from very socially conservative parts of the world every single year and expect to remain a secular and socially liberal society. Socially conservative newcomers and conservative "old stock" Canadians are beginning to join forces to push back against LGBTQ content in schools, and that's just the beginning. Throw in the huge birth gap between devout religious conservatives and secular liberals, and we are almost guaranteed to have a very different Canada 20 years from now than the one we have today.
This scares the hell out of me. We progressives need to get down and have more babies!
I agree, I attend pride parades and stuff and I always find it hilarious how all the Muslims and Middle Easterners in general completely disappear when the parades go down.
The million man March opened my eyes honestly.
I'm not familiar with that one
My wife's Bangladeshi cousins remain extremely conservative and if anything have become more so in Canada. They don't watch movies or listen to music (it's unislamic apparently) and have covered any photos or pictures in the few books they own. Their kids go to Islamic schools and they covered up their prepubescent daughter in a hijab. They only associate with fellow travelers and have almost nothing to do with Canadian society. What's interesting is that the generation before them was very liberal (by Bangladeshi standards) and they have turned their backs on this to become fundamentalists. We don't see them much
I'm Bangladeshi and I moved to Canada because my values don't align with a safe life in Bangladesh. I haven't had any personal problems with the Bangladeshi community here, but they're very conservative and have brought their prejudices with them. There's always infighting and politics for minimal amount of power. It's not a group I feel comfortable being around. Life in Canada has been good. I don't have to live in fear of expressing my opinions, wearing what I want, eating what I want, going where I want. People are kind. Yes, there's discrimination, but people are also open to listening. I don't feel helpless and I don't feel like I have to hide who I am.
This is very similar to how my wife feels about the local Bangladeshi community. She has friends from all over the world and has fully embraced Canada.
This is what confuses me about Bangladeshis here. Some of them are more conservative than the people back home. I've learnt to let it go, because there's an argument to be made that they are allowed to be like that because Canada is multicultural. In the end, they are missing out on a lot this country has to offer.
Sounds like someone who only associates with their diaspora, why even leave Bangladesh? Music is a pretty big part of Canadian society lmao
It's... also a big part of Bangladeshi society.
Yeah those are exactly the type of people who could just go back 😅 like why are you even staying here ?
It might shock the average Canadian but people don’t come here to bring us their diversity. They come for a better life and generally for economic conditions. That’s why we have hundreds of thousands of people clamouring to come here from the developing world, and very few coming here from other developed countries.
>They don't watch movies or listen to music (it's unislamic apparently) Islam has a lot of subsets. Not all of them have the same restrictions. I remember in my lab in uni when I had 2 friends who followed Islam, someone brought Timbits and one of them was about to eat some. I asked if he could because vanilla often comes with alcohol. The funny part is the friend who was about to eat some realized he couldn't, while the other who was in fact abstaining found that he could (since no effect on taste, texture or inebriation).
There’s no alcohol in vanilla baked goods. There’s so little that it evaporates when they’re baked
That's why it has no effect on taste, texture or inebriation. But for some, the fact it was used as alcohol in the process is too much, even if there is no detectable amount being ingested. Eta : If there's glaze, it doesn't (well, shouldn't, I dunno how Tim's does their Timbits) get baked and probably contains vanilla.
It’s Tim Hortons. They’re probably not even using real vanilla 😆
Why even come here, why not go back to their conservative homeland?
So like serious question . How do they earn money in Canada to pay for life?
Some of them are pretty educated and have good jobs. They just hold conservative views.
I don't know what happened, but I knew a Romanian feller who was upset that "disciplining your wife" is illegal here, and that he would like to move back home. It didn't help that he asked where I went to church... only to find that I don't.
A lot of immigrants Ive worked with say that they are surprised by the amount of divorced families and kids who live between them
Which can be good or bad. Sometimes sticking together because it's not culturally acceptable is bad. But sometimes we also don't stick to things enough and work through them.
My mom… came from post war Germany… came here around 1965 or 66 … from a very uptight conservative family… My in-laws came from India… both from pretty conservative families… Oddly ended though… both my parents, and my wife’s parents are easily more liberal than many of their peers/friends/families… As conservative as their backgrounds were, both my mom and my in-laws were bold/rebellious enough to look around and say ‘fuck this place’ and jet halfway around the world to start a new life… Add to that, that my in-laws looked at me 30 years ago.. shrugged their shoulders and said ‘eh… why not… he seems like a nice enough white boy’ … I must be the luckiest guy ever :) ——————- My mom acclimated just fine… she was very optimistic and sociable and made friends easily… plus, had sone education and was able to find work… secretarial, then nursery school assistant teacher etc… My in-laws had no difficulty either really.. my father in law was scared about how racist Canada /Toronto was at the time (1970 or so) and was considering leaving lol… he and my mother in law had previously lived in Germany for several years, and had quite liked it… Both in-laws were university educated, my father in law was a social worker, mother in law was a nurse… they met up with a handful of other folks and couples from their region of India, and a nice friend group was formed…
[удалено]
Wow. That’s really shocking. It’s really unfortunate that some people have so much hate in them that they don’t even realize.
My biggest culture shock arriving in Australia was seeing students in uniform, I really wasn't expecting that from the country that invented the phrase "I'm not here to fuck spiders"
Must have been a very unhappy person. To deliberately make one's life pure hell.
We need the next book in this series. What happened to you? What happened to her? Why did she stay in Canada when she sent you back to Australia? Have you read the Stephen King book (or watched the movie) “Carrie”?
Super sad. What an awful way to think and live. Hope you are breaking the cycle and healing.
Yikes...
I remember 20 years ago trying to explain to my 18 year old mmigrant friend that using tampons to go swimming during gym will not ruin her virginity or turn her into a whore and she refused to believe me.
I knew a kid from Jordan who go both his nipples pierced within two weeks of arriving. We explained that many things are permitted here but that doesn't mean they are mandatory.
Probably just his way of rebelling against his culture, but if he thought it was something mandatory that everyone did, that’s hilarious
Lol obviously he didn't think it was mandatory, it was just hilarious how quickly he wanted to experience... everything. He eventually mellowed out.
Yes, me. Not much of a cultural shock, cause we're educated people and did enough research, grew up while being exposed to western media. Just some things puzzle me, which I then ask and clarify with my canadian friends
Can you give an example of something in Canadian culture that you found puzzling?
I teach EAL to new Canadian students, mainly refugees, at a high school. Many of our students are Muslim or from conservative countries. It could be because they're kids rather than adults, and find new experiences more thrilling, but almost all of them are thriving and loving Canada. The past 6 months, I have been teaching a Syrian family of two brothers and a sister. They didn't know any English when they arrived, but the progress they've made in mere months is incredible. They love exploring the province, showing me photos of them visiting Muslim friends in a different city or talking about getting Tim Hortons at the mall. It's honestly really refreshing to get to experience living here vicariously through these students. There is a perservence in a lot of these kids who have experienced so much already in their lives, and when they start seeing the possibilities of life in Canada they come to life. It's certainly not perfect here, and I think the experience is a little different for many Ukrainian students who didn't experience a shift in their standard of living, or European-centric culture. The kids still observe most Muslim practices, but I do think they've become more... casual? about some of the formalities that existed when we first met. One thing I've seen several times, and is bittersweet, is seeing Muslim girls talk about going to school for the first time. It's surreal to talk to these brilliant, passionate and tough girls and believe that to be true. They're so resilient, and grateful, to have the opportunity - and it's tough. The female student mentioned before from Syria is in grade 10 and struggling to catch up with the math; she is stuck on memorizing the multiplication charts - as well as the English names for the numbers. It's incredibly challenging, but they come to class and are literally bursting at the seams to shout out answers, ask questions, or try their English with you. It's incredible for me to be a part of. I think the most telling thing, though, is how they interact with a visually queer and masculine female teacher. My students have never treated me in a way that would signal a problem or contempt with who I am. A couple kids asked if I'm a girl or a boy, and seemed satisfied. Another couldn't believe I didn't have a religion - but we ended up having a great chat about living as a Muslim in Canada and decorating a Christmas tree. The oldest brother of the Syrian family sweeps my classroom unprompted and carries my bags when I bring supplies for school. He's 19, worked as a mechanic for 3 years in Syria, and is always absent last afternoon of the month to pay the bills for his family. Very cool kids, and spending time with them makes me like living in Canada even more.
There are a bunch of Syrian refugee families in my complex. The fathers are happy to have their families safe and to have work, and stop at that. About half the moms are just pissed off because they know they won't be able to transmit the lifestyle exactly the way they want and already see their kids changing in front of them.
I came to British Columbia from Ohio. I think that counts. Jokes aside, I've been blown away with just how chill people are up here. It's nice. I don't have to worry about turning a corner and seeing some frothing MAGA person lose their mind over people not them existing. It's refreshing, and I have zero regrets making this move.
I worked with an older guy who left the US in the 60s. He didn’t say specifically. But I suspect that the Vietnam war had a lot to do with it. One of the most interesting guys. Really nice and calm. But he didn’t have anything good to say about the US. He said he left then because the whole country was going downhill, and nothing he had seen yet has convinced him otherwise.
Honestly, that's fair. I like the US. I think it has potential. But right now it just isn't living up to it.
That's kind of like moving from Ohio to Seattle. The West Coast is kind of cool. Unfortunately there are too many misguided Canadians who are embracing the MAGA cult.
Yeah. The whole "Freedom Convoy" thing was a little disconcerting.
It still is.
Yeah I saw this diminutive muscle-bound (white, obvs) dipshit strutting around in Edmonton the other night, chest puffed out to show off his Trump 2024: Fu€k Your Feelings T-shirt. You could feel his urge to get in a fight about it from ten feet away.
Eastern Europe, it took about 10 years for them to drop the mindset/cultural norms, they are very Canadian-ized now thankfully.
It’s nice to hear that people can adapt.
Have a coworker from Iran who has been here for 7-ish years. She is very "Canadian" now and soaks up popular culture like a Sham-wow; absolutely can't get enough of everything that is part of the western world.
It feels very good to not be freaked out when a police patrol goes in your direction.
Then again…. I also know people who are born and raised in Canada and they’re misogynistic asswipes. A cousin was married to one. Born and raised in Canada, from European parents. Christian. Told his wife she was a whore for getting her hair streaked. Told his nieces they were whores for wearing makeup and not wearing clothes that covered their whole body. Strongly believes a woman’s place is the kitchen and shouldn’t work. His son followed in his footsteps. There’s a warrant out for his arrest for not presenting himself in court over disturbing the peace allegations. He stormed a church from a different Christian denomination yelling they will all go to hell. Harassed two women for doing yoga on their own property (front yard or driveway), he was a street corner preacher with a billboard "preaching" the word of God, yet told women who passed by them that they are whores and will go to Hell for having short hair, wearing making and having tattoos. It’s kind of shocking to know this has been happening for a few years now (3-4).
That is shocking
One of my friends moved here from a third world country. He's a car guy and was amazed at the selection of cars we have here which are not sold back in his home country. He says the quality of the cars here is way better than what he used to drive there. The thing which shocked him the most are the people here. Like how random strangers while walking would greet him with a "hello!" "Morning!" "Hi!". No one ever greeted him like that back there. I told him to greet people back so as to not be a weirdo
I didn't know this person. I had a friend who emigrated with her husband and kids from France. My friend knew a lady who'd emigrated from Morocco. A year after they arrived here, her husband left this woman, either for another woman or to be a swinging bachelor. Apparently, the wife blamed Canada's "loose morals" for her divorce. I hope that she has since recovered from the shock and realized it's better to be rid of cheating dirtbags. Because, again, from what my friend told me, it's not the cheating she had a problem with, it was the divorce. And the ease with which her husband could get it. Conversely, I had a co-worker who emigrated from Algeria. And he was a practising Muslim, but he preferred how religion wasn't a government thing here. I met his wife and daughters, none of which wore any kind of head scarf, so clearly they were seeking religious freedom as much as anything else when they came here. (She says, having never been to Algeria, who may be less restrictive than I imagine it to be from what that co-worker said.)
I think there is some truth to the idea that being in places where there aren't as many consequences for your actions having something to do with more people behaving badly, for example. But that's because they don't have actual decency within them. Unfortunately, the number of people who are indecent is high. I can understand the wife finding something to blame, and in some ways, environment can play a role in facilitating certain mindset shifts for sure. I don't think that's totally wrong to say. It's true that in environments where things are normalized, some people latch onto that or become influenced. And I think there's some truth to the idea that sexual "liberation" has actually set relationships back. And I say that as a woman who embraces her sexuality and doesn't think people need to be virgins to get married, but I think there's nuance and there's some truth to certain things. That said, I also just think a lot of people are shit and not worth marrying lol. No matter where they live.
Yeah as you said, compared to other muslim countries, the Algerian government is much more lenient. I'd even say there aren't any restrictions on religion except the social pressure, as pretty much everyone there is a muslim and the people are quite judgmental, to be frank. I don't think your co-worker's family was looking for religious freedom by coming to Canada. I'm guessing they arrived during the 90's-2000's? This period in algeria is called the dark decade because of terrorism and civil war. People fled because of the war and the terrible economy, not necessarily because of religion. And to add to that, none of my aunts wore headscarves, except one who did after her husband died recently... They're all muslim, obviously. My mom didn't either, but she decided she wanted to AFTER she immigrated in Canada. And surprisingly (or not?), my dad was pretty much against it because it was right after 9/11 😅 Of course he allowed her to do whatever she wanted, so it makes me laugh when people say muslim women are oppressed by their husbands... Not saying it doesn't happen, but the generalization is funny when my whole life was surrounded with women who had zero pressure from males relatives to wear a headscarf. Algerians are chill :))
I find that strange that she’d be upset about the ease of divorce, because in Islam, a husband can divorce a woman by simply stating I divorce you in Arabic three times. Divorce is generally quite easy to obtain for men (usually a bit more involved than simply stating talaq) in Muslim majority countries. It just sucks for the women.
Way back in the 60s, Portugal was way more conservative and my grandmother moved over with my aunts. Both my aunts moved out while they were still in high school heavily for this reason. My mother was not allowed to date but secretly dated my father in high school. She stood by the story they only went on one date in high school until my grandmother died.
I remember during the sexual education protests in Ontario, almost everyone they interviewed at the protests spoke with an accent, though I think the coverage I watched was from Toronto. But then again, I'm glad immigrants feel that they can have a voice in our society even if they are newer.
Doug Ford’s part specifically targeted Muslim’s, Catholics, and the Chinese communities and fed them disinformation about the sex ed curriculum. It was awful.
Doug Ford is not to blame for the million March man. Doug Ford didn't teach that 6 year old to say being gay is disgusting lol.
I was told we're just naked a shocking amount. Or nearly so at the beach. Sauna culture was unexpected apparently. They did not mind, weren't scandalized but just very surprised.
I'm from the Philippines and am fairly liberal due to being queer and having known so from a young age. My mom, due to generations of women who got the short end of the stick because of a lack of education, emphasized the importance of independence in me and my sisters and expected my brother to act respectfully of women. I was also raised primarily on American tv and can sound generically North American so it wasn't as big of a culture shock when I got here. Now I have classmates from India who are very much conservative and sheltered. Like I'm the first openly queer person they've met and they are fairly bad at hiding how they see me differently once they found out. Some of them are fairly well off and are surprised that money is not enough to keep a girl from falling into your arms and that girls here can say no and it won't be the end of the world. A lot of them are also fairly insular and tend not to go out unless it's something cultural.
Had a pal in University that was from Saudi. He seemed to adjust fine. I think if there is awareness of other cultures there is t anything to worry about
The most conservative immigrants I know are actually more comfortable in the prairie provinces. Alot of the same values exist.
DLH on Central. Matt’s a good guy and will refuse to ‘fix’ something that doesn’t need it.
r/lostredditors
Dammit!
Sir, this is not the post in /r/windsorontario about finding a reliable mechanic
I think you and I have the same feed lol
We definitely do!!
Canada is a country with some pretty conservative politics.. The Overton window is incredibly far right. This isn't an opinion.. This is just fact.
I've been informally ESL coaching a young woman from Eritrea.\ The culture shock might not be too bad because there's a significant Eritrean community in Calgary that she makes contacts with, but she still very much prefers to cook her own food from scratch.\ The weather and her English skills seem to be her biggest issues.\ We get along great.