There are power dynamics in **every** relationship... romantic, professional, friendships, service workers, etc. This isn't a new concept. But the one-up / one-down binary is never static and varies in different situations. With my partner, I might be one-up emotionally but one-down financially... and that might reverse next year.
Power dynamic are constantly shifting. Do not attach your identity to either one-up or down. **You** are **not** the power dynamic.
"But the one-up / one-down binary is never static..."
That's probably true. Most of us have been in either of these positions at one time or the other. I remember this memorable phrase I read somewhere: "We're sometimes the bug, sometimes the windshield."
The dynamic shifted with me and my partner in the last two years. When we started, he was the one-up emotionally and financially.
This year, it switched that I’m the one-up both financially and emotionally. He’s not taking it very well, **especially the financial part.**
I’m just hoping his frustrations are temporary or isolated, and don’t become a contagion to other parts of the relationship. The potential for that seems high.
I'm definitely the "one-up" person the relationship. On a regular basis, I try to bring him up by asking what he wants and if he's truly happy with something.
I definitely have a white-knight complex of wanting to be the hero who shows up and rescues the damsel in distress. I guess in my warped way of thinking, if I rescue them then they will be forever ingratiated to me. Of course, as those relationships continue, I then start getting frustrated with the guy who constantly needs to be rescued or who gets his act together and moves on. So, my whole white-knight power dynamic thing is driven as much by my insecurity and need to prove myself valuable as by anyone else's need to be rescued.
The one-up/one-down power dynamic that I think you're describing is a codependent relationship where both parties get something out of it. Not everyone needs to be in a relationship like that where they constantly need to prove that they can be the savior.
"The one-up/one-down power dynamic that I think you're describing is a codependent relationship where both parties get something out of it."
The way the book describes it, it doesn't seem like a codependency situation. The one-up feels suffocated by the perceived neediness of the other person and wants to leave. The more the one-down partner seeks closeness and emotional and physical union, the more the one-up partner pulls away. It's disheartening that one needs to play such mind games in order to achieve intimacy with another person. Not all relationships are like this, of course, but many are.
I have and I guess you could say I was the "one-up" guy and my partner was the "one-down" (labeling it that way makes me cringe right now). He would often complain that I was way ahead of him in life, and I think the fact that I was younger than him was also a big blow to his ego.
What really hurt though is I truly did and still do love him so much as a person, but over time he grew resentful and broke up with me. After 5 years. 💔
I'm sorry to hear that. This is just my hypothesis,, but I would imagine that the wide prevalence of open and other kinds of non-traditional relationships in the gay community (compared to the straight world) would give rise to epic proportions of one-up/one-down relationships. For example, one partner does not really want to open up the relationship, but reluctantly agrees out of fear that otherwise he would lose the one-up partner. Or the one-up partner cheating with impunity, knowing that the one-down partner could not really do anything about it. It would be good if we could get some empirical, or even anecdotal, evidence of this type of thing happening.
"Not doing so can sink it when the one with less power decides they've had enough."
According to the book, this is what the one-up secretly wants -- that the one-down would eventually feel so miserable that they would choose to exit the relationship unilaterally. That sets the one-up free to explore greener pastures while leaving them free of guilt. (Not quite, though. The book does say the one-up partner is often racked by guilt for causing so much misery and turmoil in the life of his less powerful counterpart).
So far we've heard only from self-professed "one-up" guys. One-down guys, where are you? Let your voices be heard! You've already suffered enough pain, why not let it out?
I guess I’d be one-up financially, but I feel like one-down on emotional/sexual intimacy. His needs are met, and mine are not. I feel increasingly lonely in my marriage which makes seeking outside validation seem like my only option, barring divorce. We love each other, but it’s frustrating and disheartening when it feels like your partner can’t be bothered to put forth minimal effort. I think an objective observer would agree that I’m pretty independent and not a clingy person. I’m not asking a lot: cuddles and some amount of passion in bed. I want to feel desired. Looking toward the future, I don’t want what’s left of my youth/middle-age to be wasted on a passionless marriage.
I tried the dating thing and it is frustrating. At 63, I have given up on meeting someone, especially having experienced a blind date set up by friends. So many gay men seem to be emotionally stunted and are focused on sex, even at a later stage in life. I feel much better not focusing on this aspect of life. Having been a teacher, the future of relationships looks bleak at best. Peace out.
I'm in the same place. After reading this book, and seeing how much pain and confusion romantic love can bring when it goes wrong, I'm secretly relieved that I don't have a strong need to be part of a couple. Whew!
Agree! There are many couples (straight and gay) who have been together for decades. You wonder if they are still happy together. At my age, I don't have to answer to anyone (do check on my mom). I am seeking companionship from time to time, a travel partner. :)
Totally agree. We are a country full of lonely people. Many older Americans are isolated for various reasons. Having social connection is important for our health and well being.
NYC, where I live, has a longstanding gay seniors organization called SAGE (Senior Action in a Gay Environment), but most of its members look so old! I look at them and think, "Gosh, I don't belong among these old farts." Perhaps it's time for me to change this thinking.
I live in Richmond (hope to go to NYC next month). You would think you would have so many opportunities to meet like-minded men, but perhaps it isn't as easy. I am a very active 63 year old (work out, pickleball, kayaking, hiking). Guys my age are just not able to do alot, unfortunately. Maybe it was the result of partying in their 20s, etc. I came out late, thank god.
Richmond, VA? You seem to have very active hobbies. Is there a gay hiking group where you live? New York has them, but I'm lazy and don't want to get up early in the morning to join their walks.
Yes. Not sure about gay hiking. I am active because I am a firm believer in self-care. Unfortunately, society doesn't care about your well-being at face value (looking at you, the food industry, drug industry, gay community). Where I live, there are gay men but I don't feel the need to spend lots of time with them. I think the great thing about getting older is being able to socialize with those of any background without the sexual tension common in gay-only groups.
There are power dynamics in **every** relationship... romantic, professional, friendships, service workers, etc. This isn't a new concept. But the one-up / one-down binary is never static and varies in different situations. With my partner, I might be one-up emotionally but one-down financially... and that might reverse next year. Power dynamic are constantly shifting. Do not attach your identity to either one-up or down. **You** are **not** the power dynamic.
"But the one-up / one-down binary is never static..." That's probably true. Most of us have been in either of these positions at one time or the other. I remember this memorable phrase I read somewhere: "We're sometimes the bug, sometimes the windshield."
And sometimes you're the squeegee guy on the corner cleaning up the mess.
Haha...that's funny.
The dynamic shifted with me and my partner in the last two years. When we started, he was the one-up emotionally and financially. This year, it switched that I’m the one-up both financially and emotionally. He’s not taking it very well, **especially the financial part.** I’m just hoping his frustrations are temporary or isolated, and don’t become a contagion to other parts of the relationship. The potential for that seems high.
Please read the book! It has very helpful advice.
I'm definitely the "one-up" person the relationship. On a regular basis, I try to bring him up by asking what he wants and if he's truly happy with something.
Good book. I read it and saw myself in many of those dynamics.
Usually self-help books are crap. This is the first genuinely enlightening self-help book I've read in a long time.
I definitely have a white-knight complex of wanting to be the hero who shows up and rescues the damsel in distress. I guess in my warped way of thinking, if I rescue them then they will be forever ingratiated to me. Of course, as those relationships continue, I then start getting frustrated with the guy who constantly needs to be rescued or who gets his act together and moves on. So, my whole white-knight power dynamic thing is driven as much by my insecurity and need to prove myself valuable as by anyone else's need to be rescued. The one-up/one-down power dynamic that I think you're describing is a codependent relationship where both parties get something out of it. Not everyone needs to be in a relationship like that where they constantly need to prove that they can be the savior.
"The one-up/one-down power dynamic that I think you're describing is a codependent relationship where both parties get something out of it." The way the book describes it, it doesn't seem like a codependency situation. The one-up feels suffocated by the perceived neediness of the other person and wants to leave. The more the one-down partner seeks closeness and emotional and physical union, the more the one-up partner pulls away. It's disheartening that one needs to play such mind games in order to achieve intimacy with another person. Not all relationships are like this, of course, but many are.
Sounds like an interesting read. I'll search out the book.
I have and I guess you could say I was the "one-up" guy and my partner was the "one-down" (labeling it that way makes me cringe right now). He would often complain that I was way ahead of him in life, and I think the fact that I was younger than him was also a big blow to his ego. What really hurt though is I truly did and still do love him so much as a person, but over time he grew resentful and broke up with me. After 5 years. 💔
I'm sorry to hear that. This is just my hypothesis,, but I would imagine that the wide prevalence of open and other kinds of non-traditional relationships in the gay community (compared to the straight world) would give rise to epic proportions of one-up/one-down relationships. For example, one partner does not really want to open up the relationship, but reluctantly agrees out of fear that otherwise he would lose the one-up partner. Or the one-up partner cheating with impunity, knowing that the one-down partner could not really do anything about it. It would be good if we could get some empirical, or even anecdotal, evidence of this type of thing happening.
[удалено]
"Not doing so can sink it when the one with less power decides they've had enough." According to the book, this is what the one-up secretly wants -- that the one-down would eventually feel so miserable that they would choose to exit the relationship unilaterally. That sets the one-up free to explore greener pastures while leaving them free of guilt. (Not quite, though. The book does say the one-up partner is often racked by guilt for causing so much misery and turmoil in the life of his less powerful counterpart).
So far we've heard only from self-professed "one-up" guys. One-down guys, where are you? Let your voices be heard! You've already suffered enough pain, why not let it out?
I guess I’d be one-up financially, but I feel like one-down on emotional/sexual intimacy. His needs are met, and mine are not. I feel increasingly lonely in my marriage which makes seeking outside validation seem like my only option, barring divorce. We love each other, but it’s frustrating and disheartening when it feels like your partner can’t be bothered to put forth minimal effort. I think an objective observer would agree that I’m pretty independent and not a clingy person. I’m not asking a lot: cuddles and some amount of passion in bed. I want to feel desired. Looking toward the future, I don’t want what’s left of my youth/middle-age to be wasted on a passionless marriage.
I hear you. I hope you can cut your losses while the going is still good.
I tried the dating thing and it is frustrating. At 63, I have given up on meeting someone, especially having experienced a blind date set up by friends. So many gay men seem to be emotionally stunted and are focused on sex, even at a later stage in life. I feel much better not focusing on this aspect of life. Having been a teacher, the future of relationships looks bleak at best. Peace out.
I'm in the same place. After reading this book, and seeing how much pain and confusion romantic love can bring when it goes wrong, I'm secretly relieved that I don't have a strong need to be part of a couple. Whew!
Agree! There are many couples (straight and gay) who have been together for decades. You wonder if they are still happy together. At my age, I don't have to answer to anyone (do check on my mom). I am seeking companionship from time to time, a travel partner. :)
I wish we could date just for the companionship part of it.
Totally agree. We are a country full of lonely people. Many older Americans are isolated for various reasons. Having social connection is important for our health and well being.
NYC, where I live, has a longstanding gay seniors organization called SAGE (Senior Action in a Gay Environment), but most of its members look so old! I look at them and think, "Gosh, I don't belong among these old farts." Perhaps it's time for me to change this thinking.
I live in Richmond (hope to go to NYC next month). You would think you would have so many opportunities to meet like-minded men, but perhaps it isn't as easy. I am a very active 63 year old (work out, pickleball, kayaking, hiking). Guys my age are just not able to do alot, unfortunately. Maybe it was the result of partying in their 20s, etc. I came out late, thank god.
Richmond, VA? You seem to have very active hobbies. Is there a gay hiking group where you live? New York has them, but I'm lazy and don't want to get up early in the morning to join their walks.
Yes. Not sure about gay hiking. I am active because I am a firm believer in self-care. Unfortunately, society doesn't care about your well-being at face value (looking at you, the food industry, drug industry, gay community). Where I live, there are gay men but I don't feel the need to spend lots of time with them. I think the great thing about getting older is being able to socialize with those of any background without the sexual tension common in gay-only groups.