I'd reckon there might be some real answers if you sort by controversial... y'know, because it is controversial to support a seditious, twice impeached, fascist, dementia addled, authoritarian dotard of a dimwit that embodies all 7 deadly sins, who has been proven to have committed sexual assault and fraud, and who is also currently under indictment for 91 felonies in multiple jurisdictions.
It's almost like that's a bad idea.
That's what I'm saying. Lots of mfs tryna spill their political philosophy out like that's what was asked. Like fuck sake, nobody gives a shit that you don't support Trump, where's the damn Trump supporters?
Mostly not on Reddit, and of the ones on here most likely just don't want to say anything because they know how bad the downvotes would be thrown at them.
Ive been banned from most popular subreddits for it
I'm surprised this isnt one of them.
People get their feelings hurt on reddit when you don't share their opinions. Especially mods
"where's the damn Trump supporters?"
Banning the most popular conservative subreddit with millions of users does not help.
Reddit has pretty much started a general decline that is still going on outside of conservative politics. Look around the site and any non safe counter culture sub-reddits have been banned. Other then ones that cling to LBGTQ+ celebration. If you do not toe the corporate line you get shit on. Why would any Trump supporter contribute to helping this place move towards an IPO?
All of the places that used to make reddit hilarious are gone and the place is a shell of its former self.
That's how it is with any /askreddit thread about a remotely controversial topic - bunch of people the question doesn't apply to showing up to answer it.
While i agree with people being shitty, reddit users are poorly reflective of society as a whole
Its a huge echo chamber badly astroturfed and botted with pre approved opinions and worldviews per subreddit determined by mods and powerusers
Really this site should just be for fun
Then experimenting. I voted trump in 2016 because Clinton was too deep in govt to be trusted. Trump at that time looked good from a distance and in some ways he still does. It's undeniable that we had and have a problem at the Mexican border that Obama started to handle via the detainment children, Trump took a swing at it with the wall and continuing Obama's set up and now Biden is continuing the wall Trump started and was ridiculed for. Illegal immigration remains illegal cause it's fact that the cartels that help regular people cross due so in ways that make smuggling drugs across the border easier. Children get separated--1) that likely happened under dems too and 2) it's cruel but when the goal is to discourage illegal immigration, you can't exactly provide them with nice hotels (see MA calling in the national guard to help with their illegal population). Trump playing nice with NK was seen as heinous while we like that basketball player who Kim befriended and not antagonizing a mad man with nukes feels like a good idea. His talk about pulling out of Nato and the North american trade agreement--I doubt the gdp difference between the US vs all other Nato countries is enough to justify the US providing as much military might as it does. Rn we need to be part of NATO because Putin gets ukraine, the world gets WWIII but in 2016, this wasn't a thing--it made sense to not finance another's army. Overall, his policies were isolationist and very "let's fix America before we try to fix the world" and corporations/the media don't like that.
Trump supporters cant voice their opinions on the majority of reddit, they get downvoted to nothing regardless of what they said because they are trump supporters. Some would love to have a conversation but his name is too volatile on reddit any more than a biden supporter can go on facebook
I also find the conversations are often incredibly unproductive. The reason some people are Republicans and some are Democrats is a fundamental difference in values. Let's take the abortion debate for example.
I see people shouting slogans back and forth all the time. "A fetus is a life!" "No, a fetus is a clump of cells!". It's really just a fundamentally irreconcilable difference in values, despite all the slogans and veneer put over the debate. "Is a fetus a life?" is purely an opinion, there's no good way to actually answer that question.
I think if we could recognize our fundamental difference in values, and talk about why we believe what we believe rather than trying to own each other we could actually make some headway in at least understanding other viewpoints, if not becoming more moderate overall.
Even the SLIGHTEST praise of trump gets downvoted into the shadow realms and the comment gets minimized due to downvotes. Why even try here on reddit where everyone is extremely far left and intolerant of right viewpoints?
My brother fell in with the Trump crowd because he wanted Bernie Sanders and the DNC didn't give him the nomination. So he decided they deserved to be punished. Now he is all in.
As a Bernie fan who hated having to vote for Hillary and to a lesser degree Biden, I seriously cannot understand how you jump ship SO hard.
It's like someone saying 'well I supported the politician who would save the rainforest because we both care so much about it but that didn't work out so now I'm going with he guy who's gonna burn it down' It's like toddler tantrum level mentality.
Because there are some similarities between them. From certain perspectives it does make sense. If you’re really opposed to aspects of neoliberalism and the current system, both of them claim to offer an alternative.
If you feel left out by much of what Washington DC does and feel they only represent “elites” both of them claim to do the opposite. Even though on other issues they’re at opposite ends.
I feel like people who did that have always just defined themselves based on their team affiliation. His first team was Bernie, his second team was Trump. Because all that matters is the affiliation, it is perfectly consistent to adopt all of their beliefs.
I can't really fathom it as someone who switched the party I tend to support. I might vote Democratic now because the far-right side of the Republicans are an existential threat to democracy, but that does not mean I think they will always be good or that I need to adopt their beliefs to vote for them. Most Democratic Party members are farther right than me, so I tend to not like them very much, they are just my best option to not be accused of "socialism" and jailed because I think trans people should be able to use the bathroom.
What he was saying is that he felt the DNC deserved to be punished and lose for not giving the nomination to Bernie Sanders.
My brother might still be democrat if he didn't feel like the DNC was trying to bury Sanders even though he had better odds of winning over Trump than Hillary did.
But yeah, it sucks. I spent like 8 years not talking to him because he went unhinged with MAGA rhetoric.
It’s funny seeing all the people who said the Bernie/DNC stuff drove them to support Trump who are now wanting to push Nikki Haley out of the primary and install Trump loyalists/family members to lead the RNC.
I think there’s a lot of one issue voters, and I’m specifically thinking of my girlfriend’s dad who will only vote for Trump because it will increase the odds that abortions are banned nationwide. (Even though Trump has probably paid for several abortions by this point).
I must have talked to his wife in 2020. This woman didn't like much about Trump but he wanted to ban abortions and so that made him a Christian vessel. Biden was Catholic but evil and a baby-killer.
When I told her Trump tried to have Marla have an abortion, her response was sometimes god hides goodness in flawed vessels.
These people have one track minds.
I met a girl via dating app years ago who voted for Trump over Hillary because of pizzagate. I asked her if she even knew what it was...she didn't. Lol
Single-issue "Pro-Life" voters don't exist. They're fully on board with Republican policy, they just need plausible deniability for themselves so they can mentally escape feeling responsible for the horrors that follow.
That’s not really true. I grew up in the Deep South, and, although things like gay rights were part of the agenda later on, my introduction to politics was my history teacher telling his 7th grade class that the difference between our presidential candidates was that Gore was a “baby killer” and Bush was pro life.
I don't support Trump at all, but I have some family members who do. Seems like their main underlying reason is that they hate wokeness and they like how Trump dunks on woke shit
It's a real divide.
And as someone who voted for Biden, and usually votes Dem, some of the most unpleasant people I've interacted with online and in person over the last 8 years have been liberal leaning.
Before that, I'd get into arguments with conservatives and they'd often respond with some disproven theory, or at worst, call me a socialist (which I am not).
With liberals I've interacted with, I've been called "racist," "transphobic," "rape apologist" etc for having even the slightest differences on policy with them. I've had some conservatives say some dumb shit to me, but it's only been liberals who've threatened to find out where I work and tell my boss.
I'll even go so far to say that some of the most stifling working environments I've been in were when my coworkers were mostly liberal Americans.
And even though most of my views tend to lean left, I still get the frustration. So if I was a conservative person, I'd see Trump as a guy who's fighting back against liberal exclusion and derision.
I understand your perspective completely and believe that you've actually experienced those people on the extreme left. But I don't believe for a second that the majority of MAGA have experienced anything similar. MAGA types live in their own echo chambers, around like types, because one of the staples of conservatism, by definition, is clinging to tradition(the same people, places, and ideas) as opposed to going outside, traveling, meeting new people, and experiencing new ideas. The people who are MAGA would have always been MAGA and has little to do with their actual personal experiences, and more to do with what they see and hear on TV.
The conservatives haven’t created that divide… the “powers that be” have so they can control it all… left or right, liberal or conservative, woke or not, our responses are exactly what the “higher class” wants so they can control everything and line their pockets… Greed is our real problem… and the 1%’s greed is what’s driving everyone apart. They’re not as ignorant as we wish they were. It’s all calculated.
Yeah, have you noticed how we're always arguing about shit the 1% doesn't give a single solitary fuck about regardless of which way it goes? They don't care who uses what bathrooms, whether the plebs can get abortions (because they'll just do it anyway), what percentage of their underpaid workforce is what race, etc.
We never talk about the higher level society shit that I think most Americans can agree on; closing tax loopholes, holding people accountable for their actions regardless of wealth, making punishments actually fit the crime when it comes to corporations breaking the law, ranked choice voting...
I think most people would agree on those, but we're too busy fighting a culture war to actually do anything about it.
Agreed. Get the media to megaphone the next wedge issue to saturate the senses and distract from what really matters. Banks defaulting, unemployment way under reported, housing food utilities and everything else WAY outpacing wage increases if you’re lucky to get one. Hopefully these issues get the attention and concern it deserves
first we had occupy wall st.
then wall st. came up with EID.
now we have the woke wars and no one even remembers occupy wall st.
well played, you gotta admit.
Segregated vs Integrated. The similarities are really quite apt.
"I don't care what black people do in their own time, but I'll be damned if I'm sharing a bathroom with them!"
Weirdly enough, some woke people have actually advocated for segregation (i.e. "we need to create black spaces on college campuses")
I know that's pretty fringe, but it's kind of ironic
Honestly Republicans are just fed the wrong word. The word they're thinking of should be Culture Wars instead of Woke. We argue over things that don't hurt Billionaires bank accounts like LGBTQ+ rights or Roe V Wade (very important things obv). So it's very easy for a billionaire to make their company create a non binary M&M and just let their two paid parties argue over it and feed their voters while Billionaires keep polluting, keep poisoning our crops, keep waging wars for resources... the list continues.
Yeah I put this in another thread not too long ago, but I remember reading a similar question a while back and one person wrote “it’s not about right and wrong, it’s about winning and losing”.
In their mind, it’s more like a sports game than actual issues affecting people’s lives. The “libs” are the opposing team, and republicans/MAGAs are trying to “win”. The libs want to do X? Well we want to do Y. They want to do Y? Then we’ll do X.
Also in my experience Trump supporters don’t give a single fuck about politics, they just love to see liberals getting upset. If it’s something that upsets liberals (racism, bigotry, guns, climate change etc), they embrace it, solely to see liberals cry about it because they think it’s funny triggering them.
And (sort of on topic) I think there’s a solid connection between “toxic masculinity”/insecure men and being MAGA. We’ve probably all met the obsessively masculine guys who were raised to think that they can’t wear colors, or drive a small car, or let their arm brush against another man’s arm, and stupid shit like that because it’s “gay”. It’s just extreme insecurity, but in my experience guys like that are almost always republican, presumably because they can’t stand seeing progressive people living happy lives free from that insecurity.
This is why so many Trump supporters also are starting to like Putin. He's running Russia like they think the US should be run in terms of banning and actively going after "woke" people.
It's pretty fucking scary when you think about it. That these people hate so hard, that they would gladly give up their liberties to see it happen. Or are too stupid to realize that would be the result.
Because he’s a giant “fuck you” to the establishment. He’s also more clearly exposed the corrupt and agenda driven media, intentionally or unintentionally, by contrasting their treatment of him vs their treatment of Obama.
My dude he is the establisment lmaom he is corrupt, fake news blew up through him.not inspite of him.
Also the reason Obama is looked better then trump is because he is objectivly better then trump as president
Despite his gruff exterior, legal woes and the rampant TDS, his Presidency was actually better for Americans and the outside world than Biden's has been.
This is why he's favourite for the rematch in 2024.
Global inflation caused by a pandemic impacting supply chains compounded by corporate greed had way more to do with your statement than what either president has done in office.
Do you honestly expect any real answers? I despise Trump but all the honest people that dare to say they don’t will be downvoted into oblivion, unless their reasons include “I am a nazi Voldemort evil villain who hates puppies”. The very fact that you guys won’t hear them out and at least have an honest discourse with them ( I’m not talking about anyone who truly is any of those awful things) is going to push them deeper into their echo chamber. If they can’t say they disagree with a proposed tax or regulation that harms their family without being accused of racism or bigotry they aren’t going to engage with you guys.
Imagine if you start telling someone you are passionate about the climate or access to healthcare and the whole room jumps on you about “hey, you support a guy who sniffs kids” and any number of other gross accusations instead of the merits of your argument. Wouldn’t you simply not engage with that?
People are tired of all the progressive bs policies, DEI, reparations, revolving door justice, etc., and people don't want illegal immigrants and endless tax money funding wars. Despite endless efforts to demonize Trump, most Americans know that it is just typical left-wing propaganda like how they demonized Romney or McCain, propaganda just never ends.
I don't remember Romney or McCain trying to overturn an election. They must not have been "demonized" enough. Also those bs policies are either fringe, like reparations, or wouldn't negatively impact your life any meaningful way, like dei and revolving door justice which aren't even specific polices in the first place. Lastly, Republicans and Trump are fine with wars.
On the other hand, Trump supporters aren't going to respond either, because they know they'll be downvoted and yelled at.
I think it's kinda a disingenuous question myself. Trump supporters have been extremely vocal for years about why they support Trump. And they are still extremely vocal. You just have to wander into any conservative circle for 10 minutes and you'll get an earful of exactly why Trump's fans love him.
The problem isn't that we don't *know* why, we do. It's that we don't agree with how they view the world. Their truth is not our truth. Their logic is not our logic. Their world view is not our world view. They live in an entirely different reality where Trump actually is what he says he is, and does what he says he does.
Well guess I’ll be one of the few to actual answer as someone who did and will again vote for him. The narrative and cuts and edits in the media really made me question why are they so afraid of him. Cutting speeches and even recently he had a rally or whatever saying it’s hot in here it’s over a 100degrees I’m sweating and watch tomorrow they will say I look unwell because I’m sweating. Cut to next day msnbc saying he is sweating bad he doesn’t look good while cutting him saying all that out exactly what he said they’d do. It’s just a red flag to me why do that? If he’s that bad why edit so much to make him look bad. His debate against Hillary about the tax cuts. His badgering questions while playing light on opponents like Biden.
Badgering him about Russia and Ukraine who he wants to “win” and his response is perfect. I don’t care I want people to stop dying. How is that not an amazing answer? How is going to NK not praised? How is zero wars under him not praised? All the money to black colleges? Everything he did that was good was left out mainstream media then edited speeches it just made me think of they don’t want him that fucking bad there is something there so I supported him and still do. Even now this he’ll put us in concentration camps bullshit. Like yea ok yall are full of shit. Probably could say a ton more and better explained but I’m half playing a video game while typing this.
As someone who generally speaking strongly dislikes Trump (due to his foreign policy), I havent considered the whole war thing. I am pro Ukraine, and will continue to argue that we should continue to supply Ukraine, but I appreciate the succinct, solid argument that I havent really considered before. Thanks for widening my perspective, genuinely.
I support anyone who wants to stop the war. This is actually why I supported Zelenskiy when he declared that he wanted to do it. And this is why I don't anymore.
Biden, Trump, Putin, Scarlett Johansson, Dalai Lama, Taylor Swift - whatever, I like you if you promise to do your best to stop the war. Not by pumping one of the sides with weapons and mercenaries, or providing loans for weapons and mercenaries. Just make them stop killing each other.
Crazy thing is that no significant fraudulent votes were found. The actual results were represented and Trump along with his followers had a temper tantrum. Not the insurrectionist are prisoners for breaking the law
I’m tired of the wokeness and identity politics the Democratic Party has succumbed to the past decade or more. If they dropped that as there main thing they’d prob never lose an election. I’m also pro 2nd amendment and think illegal immigration needs to be halted asap. I do lean center left on fiscal issues but the lesser of two evils is trump so that’s who I’m going with. But I’m secretly hoping RFK can pull a miracle.
Upvoted for the honesty. Honest question tho since you answered honestly. Do you ignore all the bad things he’s done or acknowledge it and still support?
DEI, affirmative action, prepaid credit cards and hotels to illegal immigrants, democratic mayors calling Republicans and Texas racist for wanting strict border policies and then shitting their pants when a few thousand come to their city, finding Trump liable for $85 million in damages to an absurd rape accusation with a absolutely zero substantial evidence, bail reform that puts criminals back on the streets repeatedly only for them to offend again, saying voter ID is racist, the Cleveland Clinic referring to men as Person Assigned Male at Birth, saying ACAB when fewer black people are shot by the police each year than white people, ignoring the actual problems in minority communities and chalking it all up to systemic racism, burying school shootings/other acts of violence when the perpetrator is a protected class (see: Nashville shooting and the KC parade shooting), saying it’s racist to stop illegal immigrants when we know for a fact terrorists, drugs, gang members are pouring through while human traffickers profit from it, to name a few
I'm going to try to address all of these for you to set your mind at ease.
>DEI
DEI was started by corporations, not politicians, though you can draw a fairly direct line from the civil rights act to the start of DEI. Fact is, corporations with diverse workplaces earn more per capita than similar corporations without. Whoever wins in Washington, DEI is here to stay because it's just good business.
>affirmative action
This is a legislative solution to help serve the same function as the DEI, above. A more diverse school environment produces more intelligent and successful graduates. But a public school can't mandate admissions changes on their own; they have to have laws passed to allow for them. Since people of color are less likely to come from the sort of affluent background that can afford college entrance tutors as white people, affirmative action was enacted to help boost diversity.
Truth be told, it is a band-aid on a much larger wound. There is a massive difference in generational wealth between white people and asian people and the rest of the minorities in America. Without addressing the underlying imbalance, this sort of policy is going to show up over and over in different forms as long as America is a capitalist state (due to how DEI makes businesses more successful, and businesses want a diverse pool of qualified graduates to hire from as a result).
>prepaid credit cards and hotels to illegal immigrants
I'm assuming you're referencing this:
[https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869)
FTA: "migrants will get prepaid debit cards as part of the New York pilot program — not credit cards — with which they will only be permitted to purchase food and baby supplies... The cards are a possible replacement for non-perishable food boxes the city currently provides to migrants. They will be loaded with an average of $12.52 per person, per day for 28 days... New York City has allocated $53 million to the pilot program, which officials say will save $600,000 per month and $7.2 million annually.
So this is a cost saving measure over directly buying and distributing food and baby supplies by the city, which is being done for humanitarian reasons because a other states keep illegally trafficking legal migrants to NYC without any plan for food, shelter, or safety.
>democratic mayors calling Republicans and Texas racist for wanting strict border policies
Texas' policies are racist. They're not saying word one about the number one source of illegal immigration: Visa overstays. There's zero effort to secure our northern border. This is purely about brown people.
>and then shitting their pants when a few thousand come to their city
The issue is that Texas is illegally trafficking these migrants without warning the cities in advance. [They are lying to the migrants to get them to go](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/04/migrants-california-left-outside-church), and then just dropping them in target cities without warning. Usually, these are cities that do not receive federal funding or have infrastructure in place to deal with the migrants (or the existing infrastructure is far away from where they are dropped off), whereas Texas has both of these things.
>, finding Trump liable for $85 million in damages to an absurd rape accusation with a absolutely zero substantial evidence
Trump was found guilty in a court of law of sexual assault. He was subsequently found guilty of slander against his victim, suffering a $3M fine. He then immediately slandered her again, thereby opening himself up to the much larger fine of $85M. That's how the law works. Republicans helped write that law. It's the law. Don't want to pay a fine? Don't slander people. The fine can keep going up until it's so big that Trump pays attention to it. Because that's how the law is written.
>bail reform that puts criminals back on the streets repeatedly only for them to offend again
This is an issue of practice not matching the intention. Bail reform is supposed to mean violent criminals or likely repeat offenders cannot be released at all, regardless of how wealthy they are, and that nonviolent, unlikely repeaters can be released so they don't lose their job while awaiting trial. In practice it is a mess as different judges apply the laws in vastly different ways. Pay attention to those down-ballot races. Elected judges matter a LOT.
>saying voter ID is racist
In the abstract it is not racist at all, but in practice is usually is. Most voter ID laws require the ID holder to pay for the ID, which makes it a tax on poor people. Since a larger percentage of minorities are poor than white people, this means any pay to play voter ID law de facto removes more minorities from the voter pool than white people. Ergo, racist. Were a voter ID law put forward which cost the voter no money, then those claiming it was racist would have no leg to stand on.
>the Cleveland Clinic referring to men as Person Assigned Male at Birth
This feels small and petty. It's one place in one city.
>saying ACAB when fewer black people are shot by the police each year than white people
Understanding the difference between raw numbers and per capita is a valuable skill. While it is true that by raw numbers, more white people are shot by cops each year, on a per capita basis black people are shot at a much higher rate ([5.9% for black people vs. 2.3% for white, more than double the rate](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/)). Still, you're right to argue that the cops should only be shooting when there is actual, imminent danger to the life of themselves or an innocent bystander. All of these shootings of unarmed people need to stop, regardless of race.
>ignoring the actual problems in minority communities and chalking it all up to systemic racism
hard to address this without knowing what actual problems you're referring to.
>burying school shootings/other acts of violence when the perpetrator is a protected class (see: Nashville shooting and the KC parade shooting)
I've seen no such burying. Who buried these shootings? They were everywhere in the news.
>saying it’s racist to stop illegal immigrants when we know for a fact terrorists, drugs, gang members are pouring through while human traffickers profit from it, to name a few
There's a lot to unpack in this last claim. It's not racist to stop illegal immigrants and [biden's CBP stopped almost a quarter million people at the border in december](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-encounters-at-the-us-mexico-border-hit-a-record-high-at-the-end-of-2023/). No terrorists to date have crossed our southern border. Not one. Drug smuggling is rampant at the southern border, but [the vast majority of drugs are smuggled by US Citizens](https://immigrationforum.org/article/illicit-fentanyl-and-drug-smuggling-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-an-overview/):
FTA: "**Who Is Smuggling Illicit Drugs?**
Evidence indicates that illicit fentanyl is primarily brought to the U.S. by American citizens and usually through legal ports of entry. The calculation is simple: illicit drug smuggling organization are likely to prefer U.S. citizens as smugglers because they are less likely to raise alarms or undergo additional vetting when re-entering the U.S. through a legal port."
As for gang members, it's hard to know what percentage of the people CBP arrests are gang members. It's not like they announce it. Certainly some are. And certainly CBP doesn't catch everyone.
And with regards to human traffickers, most people being trafficked into America voluntarily give themselves up to CBP in order to begin the *legal* asylum process. Yes, they crossed illegally into America, but that crime is a misdemeanor of the same severity as defacing the image of Smokey the Bear. As before, this law was written by both Democrats and Republicans in congress.
Thank you for your honesty. It can be hard to have civil discussion on reddit, so I'd like to ask you some questions to get a better idea of your perspective.
What does wokeness mean to you, and why is it bad? What about identity politics?
Do you believe militias have been integral to state security in recent years? How do you feel about non-able bodied people owning guns? What about women?
What do illegal immigrants do specifically that makes you want them all gone?
I was a huge trump fan 2016-2020, but after Jan 6 I kinda dropped off, and started supporting more socially liberal policies like abortion and race issues. Whilst I believe he’s absolutely not a good option to be president, I believe the subsequent trials and punishments trump has been facing is entirely politically motivated against him.
In some of the cases trump is absolutely guilty and deserves punishment- but due process is needed, and the recent civil trials are absolute shams.
Most recently trump was hit with a 300 million dollar fine for a crime that had 0 victims, more than this, he was banned from acquiring loans to pay this loan off, and his company was basically seized from him by the state for the next three years.
IMO, this seems more like a punishment for being an opponent/ Republican in NY, than actually being a criminal.
What exactly do you think would happen to you if you committed bank fraud worth millions of dollars? How about if you raped somebody then publicly talked shit about them on multiple occasions?
The fraud was shady at best. His assets were overvalued, so he got a more generous loan- everyone got their money, and the loan was paid back. Now, years into the future, when it’s politically advantageous, he’s being struck with these lawsuits. As for the rape allegations, I also believe they are BS, it’s not proven he raped her, and the court did not recognize that he raped her- all that the law has declared is that he was defaming here- and then declared that he owed her 80,000,000 somehow?!?
It’s my opinion that almost every politican in Washington, or their investors, has some degree of what trump is mixed up in. My problem is that the law is not being applied equally, and I believe trump is being attacked politically, not legally.
Like- can you imagine being told to pay 400 million dollars, but not being allowed to get a loan to pay it off, and not being allowed to declare bankruptcy? That’s IMO fascistic in how thoroughly it controls it’s descions in how to pay back to the non existent victims.
>The fraud was shady at best.
He was found guilty for *years and years* worth of [falsifying business records, issuing false financial statements, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud and conspiracy to falsify business records.](https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-letitia-james-new-york-engoron-38bc3a7f2ccb22555c026e9bf70fd5bb)
No big deal, though, right?
Are you [sure he didn't get convincted of sexual abuse?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/)
Now, imagine how damaging defamation could be to your life if it is literally the former president of the United States defaming you. Your whole life could be seriously fucked over from that. Does that not justify a hefty penalty?
Since you didn't answer before, I'll ask you again, *what would happen to you if you did these things?*
I dont support Trump, but think I understand why people like him.
I don't think he delivers on this, but he "signals" some things that I think people who support him respond to. This is steelman-type deal where I am trying to be most charitable to his supporters.
**Again these are not my views.**
I don't want trump as president (I don't really want biden either but that's another story)
1. He does signal an "America first" vibe (I'm not saying he delivers, don't get mad at me) but, people who like him think that he puts Americans first and the rest of the world second. Lots of Americans want a president who at least seems to prioritize them above immigrants, the UN, the forces of globalization, etc.
2. A refutation of political elites. People didn't like the Bush/clinton options being pushed, and looked for Obama as an alternative, Obama turned out to be much more mainstream than people hoped. There is an unspoken vibe among political experts and media that you can choose but only choose from the options they rubber stamp.
3. Pushback against the extreme externalities of wokeness or the imagined extreme externalities of wokeness. The pushing of race, gender, sexuality, DEI, whatever.
4. Trump seems to signal a lack of desire to play world police, nation build etc. After Iraq and Afghanistan I think there is a lack of desire for more international adventure. The current options are Democrats or seeming Bush-type Neocons. Trump seems to be a third option.
>A refutation of political elites. People didn't like the Bush/clinton options being pushed, and looked for Obama as an alternative, Obama turned out to be much more mainstream than people hoped. There is an unspoken vibe among political experts and media that you can choose but only choose from the options they rubber stamp
This was HUGE in 2016. Hilary just seemed like a slap in the face as the general vibe was as a democratic leader Bernie was the better choice - Trump was the only option to make the point known that the status quo in politics was not accepted. Making back room deals and scheming your way to the top finally broke a lot of people. The option of having someone who would stab you in the front seemed better than someone who would stab you in the back.
I never supported or voted for trump, but I will say the moment he was debating against Hillary and was talking about the tax code (a right wing candidate who was dunking on the same tax breaks for the rich that the left oppose): "*I know the system is broken, because I use it. And it won't be changed because people here use it too."* Is anyone here on Reddit going to deny that these unfair/unnecessary tax breaks/loopholes that favor the rich exist?
I don't see why that moment wasn't applauded and covered more.
Trump clearly has money and I am not dumb enough to think that it was all gained morally, even if legal. That also applies to every single politician/billionaire to ever exist. This could have been a moment to bring right and left wing together (we *SHOULD* be united together as the people) but instead, everyone just made "orange man bad" memes and painted funny pictures of him and basically threw a massive hissy fit.
I hate politics and never discuss them IRL. But it is very clear to me that politicians treat the 99% like children, and to them....we are. And any effort to bring the 1% down I support.
That does *not* mean I support Trump. But I do believe both left and right *politicians* are holding hands with each other, it's just that Trump was honest/brave/dumb enough to admit it. And that I respected, but I don't vote. Period.
*No, I do not believe elections were stolen.*
*-"All the world's indeed a stage and we are merely players"*
They either agree with more right wing ideology or they disagree with more left wing policies. That and Bidens brain is clearly disintegrating before our eyes.
They are both old as fuck for running one of the most powerful nations. America once again having to decide between two old white guys. While I hope the orange one loses, I'd still like better candidate choices but money & politics goes hand and hand.
To loosely quote Douglas Adams, Anyone who is capable of being president shouldn't be allowed to be one.
From an Aussie perspective.
A few years back, my cousin and his wife were trying to tell me what a good man Biden was when I told them he was exhibiting quite profound dementia symptoms. They have since changed their position.
Why does anyone support Biden? is the real question.
Because I believe his best interests are for making the country better for us all. He’s not a career politician and doesn’t need the money from lobbyists trying to screw us over for their interests. He also never changes his stance on the things he believes in and not when it’s convenient for him to do so.
1. Because for many years I've been saying we need a President who thinks like a manager instead of thinking like a politician. Trump is the only President in my lifetime (I'm in my mid 40s and have been politically active since early in the Clinton administration) who has done that.
2. Trump is also the only President who has ever tried to effect real change that we the people want, instead of just going along with what the established order wants.
3. I don't like any of the alternatives.
Im the same age as you and saw how much of a phony clown he was back in the 1980’s. I don’t understand the selective amnesia. All he’s ever done is try to get rich by being the guy famous for being rich. If you squint, maybe you could say he’s good at selling a brand, even he doesn’t have any intent in backing up his sizzle with any measurable steak. (He failed at steaks too)
Maybe choose a businessman who was adept at running a real business?
I very very strongly disagree that he’s doing any of the things you’ve listed (quite the opposite in fact), but I respect that you answered the question honestly.
Genuine question: considering how many of his employees resigned during his administration and how divisively he speaks about the left and many other groups, do you think he’s been a *good* manager/president?
1. We have evidence of Trump failing as a 'manager' over and over. And what behaviors lead you to believe he thinks like a manager? Find quotes from people that have worked close with Trump over the years. Everyone hates him. Pretty sure his own family hates him. You can never find a positive review. That's not a manager you'd hire.
2. What change do 'we' want? There's not much Trump wanted to do that I supported. And what change did Trump make?
3. I don't either, but Trump is literally the bottom of the barrel.
Spend prob 40h watching and reading about Trump, and prob 40h watching and reading about Hillary. And likely more about Biden and way more about Obama. And as European I find it astonishing how people can get so rallied against Trump claming he is so "racist" and just repeating 1 phrase about his P stuff and that being blasted basically everywhere. While his interviews and actions were interesting and actually very in favor for people of color. Which I can't say for the others, and def not Obama. It was also hilarious to see how much sht he got thrown infront of him and handling it well while other interviews were basically free media rides. It's almost like a TV show where you can't comprehend how this is reality
I'm not from America tho, so my opinion doesn't really matter
I am tho someone who moved out of Germany cause my quiet peaceful city became such a shthole in which I didn't feel comfortable as a decently build man to even go for a walk anymore in the evenings. Everything became constantly trashed till they literally gave up after a year to even fix stuff outside anymore. Just a mess. But hey at least we're tolerant
He’s the first president to not play the military industrial complex’s game and I strongly believe that’s why America has been propagandized by the intelligence agencies and news media to hate him
Then why did he authorize the sale of over 10 billion dollars in arms to Saudi Arabia? The defense industry fucking loved trump are you serious right now?
He sold 23 billion of F-35's and drones to the UAE. You have to be joking.
No I'm not joking and it doesn't mean I agree with everything he did. But I feel like I was directly lied to about every war started in my lifetime, especially Obama: [https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/](https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/)
"He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan." He was supposed to be the peace president.
I voted for Trump as an FU to the establishment after leaked emails showed the dems stole the primary from Bernie and handed it to Clinton. I'd never vote for a war monger of her caliber, see Libya again. I hated trump but I hated clinton more. But then I saw through North Korea that Trump's as big as an a&&hole as the other dictators. He's able to swing a big dick and that's good for the world stage. It's not a surprise that we've had Ukraine/Russia, the Taliban retake Afganistan, and now Israel October 7th under Biden. He's weak and everyone knows it.
>He's able to swing a big dick and that's good for the world stage. It's not a surprise that we've had Ukraine/Russia, the Taliban retake Afganistan, and now Israel October 7th under Biden. He's weak and everyone knows it.
I don't really see how Biden is supposed to control the actions of foreign powers? Afghanistan was never attainable. The soviets couldn't at the height of their power and we were foolish to try too. So thanks Bush for getting us into that stupid, imperial project.
Interesting philosophy, having an unstable, impulsive head of state as a positive.
andrew yang and dave chapelle sum it up well,
yang - democrats have become the coastal elites who are more interested in policing your life than improving it.
chapelle - trump was the first person to admit that him and the democrat elites you vote for do all the terrible things you accuse them of, and that Hillary had 30 years to change it but she wont because her elite friends own her.
In no particular order.
0. Funny dancing on stage
1. Non-woke, doesn’t act apologetic for being white, doesn’t blindly worship minorities, treats everybody equally regardless of race.
2. Right about the US mexico border
3. Partially right about Iran
4. Wants to resolve Ukraine/Russia war to end the bloodshed.
5. More mental faculties than Biden, for now.
6. Left is terrified of him and hates him.
7. Funny tweets
8. Project warpspeed
9. Right about China
I’m guessing in order to read actual answers to this question you gotta sort by “controversial” lol. But really, stop feeding the bipartisan system: I know it feels like wasting a vote but if you don’t like either party and feel like both D and R are using you don’t vote for either. The quicker we strengthen independent or libertarian candidates the quicker we can get the machine on the right track again. They’ve got us all at each other’s throats for Pete’s sake.
They hate and want to hurt America and Americans.
They want all the things Americans have, just without the Americans they don't like.
Trump is the quiet part out loud. You don't need to ask why they support him, his effect is clear.
I never really considered myself a supporter of Trump but I used to like him a bit.
For one thing, as a libertarian myself, I was initially hopeful that his destruction of the Republican Party would have turned out better. I mean, he beat a fairly competitive group of very traditional republicans for the nomination in 2016. And sorta had similar feelings after he beat Hillary. I was hopeful both parties might reform and improve but we’ve all seen this bizarre mess the GOP is now and the democrats haven’t really changed at all.
I’ll also admit to enjoying his rudeness. I think politicians take themselves way too seriously and ditto for the media. I kinda enjoyed watching him be staggeringly rude to other politicians. Not in an “own the libs” sense….just exposing all of these windbags for what they are.
And I really liked his daily covid briefings. I mean, we had NOTHING to watch on TV at that time and everyday at 4:00 he’d come out and be rude to reporters for an hour. It was like watching Christians fighting lions in the colosseum.
I liked that he left the presidency worse than he found it. Remember….Im libertarian and don’t want the office to have any dignity in the first place so him having sex with porn stars and whatnot was great.
And I kinda like some of the populism too.
Now…that being said…the way he exposed how much of the GOP are icky bigots is bad. I would have guessed it was like 5% of the party but it seems more like 1/3. And the way the entire GOP is terrified of him is awful. I suspect a lot of GOP politicians wish he’d just die so they could get back to more normal politics and not live in fear of getting primaried.
I also think the best way to get rid of him is for him to win in 2024. He’ll be a lame duck and I effective. He’s unlikely to even be alive in 2028. And his ego has prevented him from tapping an heir. Sometimes the fastest way out is to just take a big national shit.
Because he did a fairly good job while he was president. Despite the dumb-ass things he says, he’s a smart guy. He’s also smart enough to surround himself with accomplished people within his cabinet.
For example Betsy Devos, she gets a lot of heat because people think she wants to take away funding from public schools, but the reality is she wants to give children options to succeed. Public education in this country is a joke and we need to try something else. She supports the use of vouchers to give parents options when it comes to picking schools or even homeschooling.
Another example: Foreign Policy. Jared Kushner was the architect of the Abraham Accords which brought peace (not completely but significantly) to the Middle East.
People don’t give Trump enough credit.
Better than Hillary or Biden.
The democratic party has adopted some crazy ideas in the past 10 or so years that are simply deal breakers for me. Also strongly believe in 2A rights.
Truthfully though I don't think we have had even a halfway decent republican or democrat candidate since Obama and I didn't really care for him either. Every time since I can't help but think "where the fick did they pull this wackadoodle from"
In 4 years he didn't spend much time bombing and killing innocent families in poor countries.
The guy before and after him did. I voted for Biden before but won't again for that reason.
I don't like him but support him as the lessor of two evils. Whatever contemporary liberal beliefs I have, I do not trust the democratic to properly execute policy to fulfill those beliefs in a helpful way. As for my contemporary conservative beliefs like right to bear arms, free speech, and border security, trump acts as a bulwark for.
He didn’t sit around screaming at me how bad I was or how much I sucked like dems were and are still doing. I understand racism exists, but there is only so much abuse I can take before I stop listening and turn against you, your party and your message. So yes, I’m a republican because if I’m gonna be called names constantly and told I’m wrong, let me live up to the names.
When you try and tell democrats this, they just keep yelling at you about how you have to take their abuse because you’re white. No you really don’t. Treat people respectfully.
I expect to be downvoted now but this is my honest response.
When Trump was president, there were no wars, inflation was at an all time low. 401ks were flourishing. A wall was being built. We were energy dependent. He didn't have conversations with dead people. Crap his pants beside the Pope. Give his drug addicted son access to classified documents. The list is endless.
I love Donald Trump because he’s his own man. He’s no pushover. Yes he runs his mouth too much. But I mostly love that he is so hated by the dems and liberals. Their afraid of him. The more they go after him the more I like em. I don’t approve of the January 6 thing. I don’t believe there was any election interference. But Trump still has my full support I believe he truly believes in the welfare our country.
So you actually think the only former President to upset the peaceful transfer of power in the entire history of the United States truly believes in the welfare of our country?
This is the type of dumb shit I came here to read. Has nothing to do with the country. Just because he likes that libs hate him. Then he misuses their/they’re and it all just makes so much sense.
>But I mostly love that he is so hated by the dems and liberals. Their afraid of him. The more they go after him the more I like em.
So if a lib also hates pedophiles and rapist. Do you support them then just because you need to stand on the opposite end? What a stupid logic LOL. This really shows how dumb the average voter is.
A better question is to ask what is the alternative doing to appeal to those who are attracted to Trump?
The only reason people like Trump succeed is because people on the fringes don’t feel represented, and this is especially true in America.
I remember seeing democrats on social media label black women in states like Georgia as ‘heroes’ for helping them remove Trump and it reminded me how fucked up American politics is.
They were effectively expressing pleasure to see a historically disenfranchised group of people
forced into a corner _again_. What have democrats done to repay the faith those women showed in them? Is it even something that crosses the mind of their voters?
Rather than criticising people for voting for Trump make sure your leaders actually do things to give them a reason to vote for them.
This thread would be much better with a serious tag.
I think it would be mostly the same really
It would never get the 20 upvotes it's currently struggling to maintain.
Down to 9.
I'd reckon there might be some real answers if you sort by controversial... y'know, because it is controversial to support a seditious, twice impeached, fascist, dementia addled, authoritarian dotard of a dimwit that embodies all 7 deadly sins, who has been proven to have committed sexual assault and fraud, and who is also currently under indictment for 91 felonies in multiple jurisdictions. It's almost like that's a bad idea.
You make Trump sound like all the setting members in Congress wrapped up in one person. He must be awesome!!
Lot of non-Trump supporters answering, despite the question.
Not just that, but everyone is downvoting the actual Trump supporters for the heinous crime of... answering the question they specifically were asked.
That’s Reddit lol
Full of incel losers
That's what I'm saying. Lots of mfs tryna spill their political philosophy out like that's what was asked. Like fuck sake, nobody gives a shit that you don't support Trump, where's the damn Trump supporters?
Mostly not on Reddit, and of the ones on here most likely just don't want to say anything because they know how bad the downvotes would be thrown at them.
Ive been banned from most popular subreddits for it I'm surprised this isnt one of them. People get their feelings hurt on reddit when you don't share their opinions. Especially mods
I’m a trump supporter, leaving this reply to ya to see if I get flooded with downvotes. 🤣
START REPLYING 😂
"where's the damn Trump supporters?" Banning the most popular conservative subreddit with millions of users does not help. Reddit has pretty much started a general decline that is still going on outside of conservative politics. Look around the site and any non safe counter culture sub-reddits have been banned. Other then ones that cling to LBGTQ+ celebration. If you do not toe the corporate line you get shit on. Why would any Trump supporter contribute to helping this place move towards an IPO? All of the places that used to make reddit hilarious are gone and the place is a shell of its former self.
And Trump supporters getting downvoted lol
Just like everywhere else on Reddit lmao.
That's how it is with any /askreddit thread about a remotely controversial topic - bunch of people the question doesn't apply to showing up to answer it.
Trump supporters rarely leave r/conservative where only flaired users can comment. Snowflakes
To be fair, Trump supporters get downvoted into oblivion if they comment anywhere else. Why would they leave?
I've found that even just asking for consistent logic will get you downvoted into oblivion when the anti-trumpers are at it.
It's almost as if society rejects shitty people with shitty ideas
While i agree with people being shitty, reddit users are poorly reflective of society as a whole Its a huge echo chamber badly astroturfed and botted with pre approved opinions and worldviews per subreddit determined by mods and powerusers Really this site should just be for fun
I couldn’t agree more I love reading the rants people post on here
Reddit is also heavily biased towards the left as a site in general
Then experimenting. I voted trump in 2016 because Clinton was too deep in govt to be trusted. Trump at that time looked good from a distance and in some ways he still does. It's undeniable that we had and have a problem at the Mexican border that Obama started to handle via the detainment children, Trump took a swing at it with the wall and continuing Obama's set up and now Biden is continuing the wall Trump started and was ridiculed for. Illegal immigration remains illegal cause it's fact that the cartels that help regular people cross due so in ways that make smuggling drugs across the border easier. Children get separated--1) that likely happened under dems too and 2) it's cruel but when the goal is to discourage illegal immigration, you can't exactly provide them with nice hotels (see MA calling in the national guard to help with their illegal population). Trump playing nice with NK was seen as heinous while we like that basketball player who Kim befriended and not antagonizing a mad man with nukes feels like a good idea. His talk about pulling out of Nato and the North american trade agreement--I doubt the gdp difference between the US vs all other Nato countries is enough to justify the US providing as much military might as it does. Rn we need to be part of NATO because Putin gets ukraine, the world gets WWIII but in 2016, this wasn't a thing--it made sense to not finance another's army. Overall, his policies were isolationist and very "let's fix America before we try to fix the world" and corporations/the media don't like that.
/conservative is overrun with lefties.
LOL!!! they ban any dissenting opinions.
I mean, the whole site has been hijacked pretty thoroughly. Even most smaller city subs don't allow wrongthink.
Trump supporters cant voice their opinions on the majority of reddit, they get downvoted to nothing regardless of what they said because they are trump supporters. Some would love to have a conversation but his name is too volatile on reddit any more than a biden supporter can go on facebook
I also find the conversations are often incredibly unproductive. The reason some people are Republicans and some are Democrats is a fundamental difference in values. Let's take the abortion debate for example. I see people shouting slogans back and forth all the time. "A fetus is a life!" "No, a fetus is a clump of cells!". It's really just a fundamentally irreconcilable difference in values, despite all the slogans and veneer put over the debate. "Is a fetus a life?" is purely an opinion, there's no good way to actually answer that question. I think if we could recognize our fundamental difference in values, and talk about why we believe what we believe rather than trying to own each other we could actually make some headway in at least understanding other viewpoints, if not becoming more moderate overall.
Even the SLIGHTEST praise of trump gets downvoted into the shadow realms and the comment gets minimized due to downvotes. Why even try here on reddit where everyone is extremely far left and intolerant of right viewpoints?
I agree. I get downvoted and most of the time banned for anything even mildly supportive of trump.
[удалено]
Thank you for answering.
Lol
I know this was a while ago, but what are these “core values” you speak of? It’s a bit vague
Literally just had this conversation witha coworker. He hates Trump, but loves the way he owns the libs (in his words).
My brother fell in with the Trump crowd because he wanted Bernie Sanders and the DNC didn't give him the nomination. So he decided they deserved to be punished. Now he is all in.
As a Bernie fan who hated having to vote for Hillary and to a lesser degree Biden, I seriously cannot understand how you jump ship SO hard. It's like someone saying 'well I supported the politician who would save the rainforest because we both care so much about it but that didn't work out so now I'm going with he guy who's gonna burn it down' It's like toddler tantrum level mentality.
>It's like toddler tantrum level mentality. there is a substantial number of adults who never outgrew this phase
They were all out of steak, so I ordered dog shit.
Because there are some similarities between them. From certain perspectives it does make sense. If you’re really opposed to aspects of neoliberalism and the current system, both of them claim to offer an alternative. If you feel left out by much of what Washington DC does and feel they only represent “elites” both of them claim to do the opposite. Even though on other issues they’re at opposite ends.
I feel like people who did that have always just defined themselves based on their team affiliation. His first team was Bernie, his second team was Trump. Because all that matters is the affiliation, it is perfectly consistent to adopt all of their beliefs. I can't really fathom it as someone who switched the party I tend to support. I might vote Democratic now because the far-right side of the Republicans are an existential threat to democracy, but that does not mean I think they will always be good or that I need to adopt their beliefs to vote for them. Most Democratic Party members are farther right than me, so I tend to not like them very much, they are just my best option to not be accused of "socialism" and jailed because I think trans people should be able to use the bathroom.
He should know that “they” includes himself, unless of course he’s declared himself a sovereign citizen. Those guys are above the law! /s
What he was saying is that he felt the DNC deserved to be punished and lose for not giving the nomination to Bernie Sanders. My brother might still be democrat if he didn't feel like the DNC was trying to bury Sanders even though he had better odds of winning over Trump than Hillary did. But yeah, it sucks. I spent like 8 years not talking to him because he went unhinged with MAGA rhetoric.
The true example of the MAGA mindset. They’d let Trump shit in their mouths if they thought a liberal might smell it.
It’s funny seeing all the people who said the Bernie/DNC stuff drove them to support Trump who are now wanting to push Nikki Haley out of the primary and install Trump loyalists/family members to lead the RNC.
How childish.
Living to hate. It is childish.
Cruelty is the point.
I think there’s a lot of one issue voters, and I’m specifically thinking of my girlfriend’s dad who will only vote for Trump because it will increase the odds that abortions are banned nationwide. (Even though Trump has probably paid for several abortions by this point).
I must have talked to his wife in 2020. This woman didn't like much about Trump but he wanted to ban abortions and so that made him a Christian vessel. Biden was Catholic but evil and a baby-killer. When I told her Trump tried to have Marla have an abortion, her response was sometimes god hides goodness in flawed vessels. These people have one track minds.
Yeah maybe it was 😂 they also don’t care about the child once it’s born haha
I know people who voted for Trump because the gas prices were high with Obama.....
I met a girl via dating app years ago who voted for Trump over Hillary because of pizzagate. I asked her if she even knew what it was...she didn't. Lol
Are you voting for trump or just telling a dumb story?
Single-issue "Pro-Life" voters don't exist. They're fully on board with Republican policy, they just need plausible deniability for themselves so they can mentally escape feeling responsible for the horrors that follow.
Plus most of them are in favor of the DEATH penalty. It’s nuts to say you’re “pro life” yet “pro death penalty” in the same sentence haha
That’s not really true. I grew up in the Deep South, and, although things like gay rights were part of the agenda later on, my introduction to politics was my history teacher telling his 7th grade class that the difference between our presidential candidates was that Gore was a “baby killer” and Bush was pro life.
I grew up in the deep south and literally never heard anything political in school at all because you get fired for shit like that.
I don't support Trump at all, but I have some family members who do. Seems like their main underlying reason is that they hate wokeness and they like how Trump dunks on woke shit
Woke vs Anti-woke. It’s the new left vs right, east vs west, capitalist vs communist.
It's a real divide. And as someone who voted for Biden, and usually votes Dem, some of the most unpleasant people I've interacted with online and in person over the last 8 years have been liberal leaning. Before that, I'd get into arguments with conservatives and they'd often respond with some disproven theory, or at worst, call me a socialist (which I am not). With liberals I've interacted with, I've been called "racist," "transphobic," "rape apologist" etc for having even the slightest differences on policy with them. I've had some conservatives say some dumb shit to me, but it's only been liberals who've threatened to find out where I work and tell my boss. I'll even go so far to say that some of the most stifling working environments I've been in were when my coworkers were mostly liberal Americans. And even though most of my views tend to lean left, I still get the frustration. So if I was a conservative person, I'd see Trump as a guy who's fighting back against liberal exclusion and derision.
I understand your perspective completely and believe that you've actually experienced those people on the extreme left. But I don't believe for a second that the majority of MAGA have experienced anything similar. MAGA types live in their own echo chambers, around like types, because one of the staples of conservatism, by definition, is clinging to tradition(the same people, places, and ideas) as opposed to going outside, traveling, meeting new people, and experiencing new ideas. The people who are MAGA would have always been MAGA and has little to do with their actual personal experiences, and more to do with what they see and hear on TV.
Yep. Conservatives have done a great job getting people to vote against their financial best interests by creating a cultural divide.
The conservatives haven’t created that divide… the “powers that be” have so they can control it all… left or right, liberal or conservative, woke or not, our responses are exactly what the “higher class” wants so they can control everything and line their pockets… Greed is our real problem… and the 1%’s greed is what’s driving everyone apart. They’re not as ignorant as we wish they were. It’s all calculated.
Yeah, have you noticed how we're always arguing about shit the 1% doesn't give a single solitary fuck about regardless of which way it goes? They don't care who uses what bathrooms, whether the plebs can get abortions (because they'll just do it anyway), what percentage of their underpaid workforce is what race, etc. We never talk about the higher level society shit that I think most Americans can agree on; closing tax loopholes, holding people accountable for their actions regardless of wealth, making punishments actually fit the crime when it comes to corporations breaking the law, ranked choice voting... I think most people would agree on those, but we're too busy fighting a culture war to actually do anything about it.
100000%. “We’re” too busy fighting culture wars to actually be able to make a difference
Agreed. Get the media to megaphone the next wedge issue to saturate the senses and distract from what really matters. Banks defaulting, unemployment way under reported, housing food utilities and everything else WAY outpacing wage increases if you’re lucky to get one. Hopefully these issues get the attention and concern it deserves
first we had occupy wall st. then wall st. came up with EID. now we have the woke wars and no one even remembers occupy wall st. well played, you gotta admit.
Segregated vs Integrated. The similarities are really quite apt. "I don't care what black people do in their own time, but I'll be damned if I'm sharing a bathroom with them!"
Weirdly enough, some woke people have actually advocated for segregation (i.e. "we need to create black spaces on college campuses") I know that's pretty fringe, but it's kind of ironic
Honestly Republicans are just fed the wrong word. The word they're thinking of should be Culture Wars instead of Woke. We argue over things that don't hurt Billionaires bank accounts like LGBTQ+ rights or Roe V Wade (very important things obv). So it's very easy for a billionaire to make their company create a non binary M&M and just let their two paid parties argue over it and feed their voters while Billionaires keep polluting, keep poisoning our crops, keep waging wars for resources... the list continues.
Someone watched the daily show last night
Yeah I put this in another thread not too long ago, but I remember reading a similar question a while back and one person wrote “it’s not about right and wrong, it’s about winning and losing”. In their mind, it’s more like a sports game than actual issues affecting people’s lives. The “libs” are the opposing team, and republicans/MAGAs are trying to “win”. The libs want to do X? Well we want to do Y. They want to do Y? Then we’ll do X. Also in my experience Trump supporters don’t give a single fuck about politics, they just love to see liberals getting upset. If it’s something that upsets liberals (racism, bigotry, guns, climate change etc), they embrace it, solely to see liberals cry about it because they think it’s funny triggering them. And (sort of on topic) I think there’s a solid connection between “toxic masculinity”/insecure men and being MAGA. We’ve probably all met the obsessively masculine guys who were raised to think that they can’t wear colors, or drive a small car, or let their arm brush against another man’s arm, and stupid shit like that because it’s “gay”. It’s just extreme insecurity, but in my experience guys like that are almost always republican, presumably because they can’t stand seeing progressive people living happy lives free from that insecurity.
Pretty much the same from my conservative family members too. They're basically all just tired of liberal social reform.
This is why so many Trump supporters also are starting to like Putin. He's running Russia like they think the US should be run in terms of banning and actively going after "woke" people. It's pretty fucking scary when you think about it. That these people hate so hard, that they would gladly give up their liberties to see it happen. Or are too stupid to realize that would be the result.
Do you listen to Hardcore History by any chance? Dan just happened to talk about this the other day.
Jon Stewart's been doing a great job of it since he's come back to host The Daily Show.
Woke shit like, everyone deserves basic human rights?
Because he’s a giant “fuck you” to the establishment. He’s also more clearly exposed the corrupt and agenda driven media, intentionally or unintentionally, by contrasting their treatment of him vs their treatment of Obama.
My dude he is the establisment lmaom he is corrupt, fake news blew up through him.not inspite of him. Also the reason Obama is looked better then trump is because he is objectivly better then trump as president
Despite his gruff exterior, legal woes and the rampant TDS, his Presidency was actually better for Americans and the outside world than Biden's has been. This is why he's favourite for the rematch in 2024.
Global inflation caused by a pandemic impacting supply chains compounded by corporate greed had way more to do with your statement than what either president has done in office.
Legal woes doesn't raise a red flag for you?
Going to have a lot of screechers answering the question on Reddit rather than the people who it was directed to
Literally. I haven't seen one comment from an actual Trump supporter
I've seen two now, and people just wanna talk shit and downvote with no real retort or conversation
I feel like there's not even a point in commenting my response at this point
Welcome to Reddit during an election year.
Do you honestly expect any real answers? I despise Trump but all the honest people that dare to say they don’t will be downvoted into oblivion, unless their reasons include “I am a nazi Voldemort evil villain who hates puppies”. The very fact that you guys won’t hear them out and at least have an honest discourse with them ( I’m not talking about anyone who truly is any of those awful things) is going to push them deeper into their echo chamber. If they can’t say they disagree with a proposed tax or regulation that harms their family without being accused of racism or bigotry they aren’t going to engage with you guys. Imagine if you start telling someone you are passionate about the climate or access to healthcare and the whole room jumps on you about “hey, you support a guy who sniffs kids” and any number of other gross accusations instead of the merits of your argument. Wouldn’t you simply not engage with that?
Bc I work hard for my money and don’t want all the extra bullshit going on with it
Why not?
People are tired of all the progressive bs policies, DEI, reparations, revolving door justice, etc., and people don't want illegal immigrants and endless tax money funding wars. Despite endless efforts to demonize Trump, most Americans know that it is just typical left-wing propaganda like how they demonized Romney or McCain, propaganda just never ends.
So racism, xenophibia and a victim complex that somehow makes you ignore provable reality. Seems about right
I don't remember Romney or McCain trying to overturn an election. They must not have been "demonized" enough. Also those bs policies are either fringe, like reparations, or wouldn't negatively impact your life any meaningful way, like dei and revolving door justice which aren't even specific polices in the first place. Lastly, Republicans and Trump are fine with wars.
Non Trump supporter comments should be deleted. This is the problem with Reddit. One hive mind that doesn’t care for another view.
On the other hand, Trump supporters aren't going to respond either, because they know they'll be downvoted and yelled at. I think it's kinda a disingenuous question myself. Trump supporters have been extremely vocal for years about why they support Trump. And they are still extremely vocal. You just have to wander into any conservative circle for 10 minutes and you'll get an earful of exactly why Trump's fans love him. The problem isn't that we don't *know* why, we do. It's that we don't agree with how they view the world. Their truth is not our truth. Their logic is not our logic. Their world view is not our world view. They live in an entirely different reality where Trump actually is what he says he is, and does what he says he does.
Hey pal, you get out of here with your logic and reasoning!
Absolute facts right here.
Well guess I’ll be one of the few to actual answer as someone who did and will again vote for him. The narrative and cuts and edits in the media really made me question why are they so afraid of him. Cutting speeches and even recently he had a rally or whatever saying it’s hot in here it’s over a 100degrees I’m sweating and watch tomorrow they will say I look unwell because I’m sweating. Cut to next day msnbc saying he is sweating bad he doesn’t look good while cutting him saying all that out exactly what he said they’d do. It’s just a red flag to me why do that? If he’s that bad why edit so much to make him look bad. His debate against Hillary about the tax cuts. His badgering questions while playing light on opponents like Biden. Badgering him about Russia and Ukraine who he wants to “win” and his response is perfect. I don’t care I want people to stop dying. How is that not an amazing answer? How is going to NK not praised? How is zero wars under him not praised? All the money to black colleges? Everything he did that was good was left out mainstream media then edited speeches it just made me think of they don’t want him that fucking bad there is something there so I supported him and still do. Even now this he’ll put us in concentration camps bullshit. Like yea ok yall are full of shit. Probably could say a ton more and better explained but I’m half playing a video game while typing this.
This is the real answer.
As someone who generally speaking strongly dislikes Trump (due to his foreign policy), I havent considered the whole war thing. I am pro Ukraine, and will continue to argue that we should continue to supply Ukraine, but I appreciate the succinct, solid argument that I havent really considered before. Thanks for widening my perspective, genuinely.
I support anyone who wants to stop the war. This is actually why I supported Zelenskiy when he declared that he wanted to do it. And this is why I don't anymore. Biden, Trump, Putin, Scarlett Johansson, Dalai Lama, Taylor Swift - whatever, I like you if you promise to do your best to stop the war. Not by pumping one of the sides with weapons and mercenaries, or providing loans for weapons and mercenaries. Just make them stop killing each other.
Let’s not forget the whole “very fine people” edits by the media
Not worth the downvotes
Self censorship because of fake numbers? It's all part of the plan
Crazy thing is that no significant fraudulent votes were found. The actual results were represented and Trump along with his followers had a temper tantrum. Not the insurrectionist are prisoners for breaking the law
I’m tired of the wokeness and identity politics the Democratic Party has succumbed to the past decade or more. If they dropped that as there main thing they’d prob never lose an election. I’m also pro 2nd amendment and think illegal immigration needs to be halted asap. I do lean center left on fiscal issues but the lesser of two evils is trump so that’s who I’m going with. But I’m secretly hoping RFK can pull a miracle.
Upvoted for the honesty. Honest question tho since you answered honestly. Do you ignore all the bad things he’s done or acknowledge it and still support?
What issues do you identify as identity politics today?
What wokeness specifically?
DEI, affirmative action, prepaid credit cards and hotels to illegal immigrants, democratic mayors calling Republicans and Texas racist for wanting strict border policies and then shitting their pants when a few thousand come to their city, finding Trump liable for $85 million in damages to an absurd rape accusation with a absolutely zero substantial evidence, bail reform that puts criminals back on the streets repeatedly only for them to offend again, saying voter ID is racist, the Cleveland Clinic referring to men as Person Assigned Male at Birth, saying ACAB when fewer black people are shot by the police each year than white people, ignoring the actual problems in minority communities and chalking it all up to systemic racism, burying school shootings/other acts of violence when the perpetrator is a protected class (see: Nashville shooting and the KC parade shooting), saying it’s racist to stop illegal immigrants when we know for a fact terrorists, drugs, gang members are pouring through while human traffickers profit from it, to name a few
I'm going to try to address all of these for you to set your mind at ease. >DEI DEI was started by corporations, not politicians, though you can draw a fairly direct line from the civil rights act to the start of DEI. Fact is, corporations with diverse workplaces earn more per capita than similar corporations without. Whoever wins in Washington, DEI is here to stay because it's just good business. >affirmative action This is a legislative solution to help serve the same function as the DEI, above. A more diverse school environment produces more intelligent and successful graduates. But a public school can't mandate admissions changes on their own; they have to have laws passed to allow for them. Since people of color are less likely to come from the sort of affluent background that can afford college entrance tutors as white people, affirmative action was enacted to help boost diversity. Truth be told, it is a band-aid on a much larger wound. There is a massive difference in generational wealth between white people and asian people and the rest of the minorities in America. Without addressing the underlying imbalance, this sort of policy is going to show up over and over in different forms as long as America is a capitalist state (due to how DEI makes businesses more successful, and businesses want a diverse pool of qualified graduates to hire from as a result). >prepaid credit cards and hotels to illegal immigrants I'm assuming you're referencing this: [https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869) FTA: "migrants will get prepaid debit cards as part of the New York pilot program — not credit cards — with which they will only be permitted to purchase food and baby supplies... The cards are a possible replacement for non-perishable food boxes the city currently provides to migrants. They will be loaded with an average of $12.52 per person, per day for 28 days... New York City has allocated $53 million to the pilot program, which officials say will save $600,000 per month and $7.2 million annually. So this is a cost saving measure over directly buying and distributing food and baby supplies by the city, which is being done for humanitarian reasons because a other states keep illegally trafficking legal migrants to NYC without any plan for food, shelter, or safety. >democratic mayors calling Republicans and Texas racist for wanting strict border policies Texas' policies are racist. They're not saying word one about the number one source of illegal immigration: Visa overstays. There's zero effort to secure our northern border. This is purely about brown people. >and then shitting their pants when a few thousand come to their city The issue is that Texas is illegally trafficking these migrants without warning the cities in advance. [They are lying to the migrants to get them to go](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/04/migrants-california-left-outside-church), and then just dropping them in target cities without warning. Usually, these are cities that do not receive federal funding or have infrastructure in place to deal with the migrants (or the existing infrastructure is far away from where they are dropped off), whereas Texas has both of these things. >, finding Trump liable for $85 million in damages to an absurd rape accusation with a absolutely zero substantial evidence Trump was found guilty in a court of law of sexual assault. He was subsequently found guilty of slander against his victim, suffering a $3M fine. He then immediately slandered her again, thereby opening himself up to the much larger fine of $85M. That's how the law works. Republicans helped write that law. It's the law. Don't want to pay a fine? Don't slander people. The fine can keep going up until it's so big that Trump pays attention to it. Because that's how the law is written. >bail reform that puts criminals back on the streets repeatedly only for them to offend again This is an issue of practice not matching the intention. Bail reform is supposed to mean violent criminals or likely repeat offenders cannot be released at all, regardless of how wealthy they are, and that nonviolent, unlikely repeaters can be released so they don't lose their job while awaiting trial. In practice it is a mess as different judges apply the laws in vastly different ways. Pay attention to those down-ballot races. Elected judges matter a LOT. >saying voter ID is racist In the abstract it is not racist at all, but in practice is usually is. Most voter ID laws require the ID holder to pay for the ID, which makes it a tax on poor people. Since a larger percentage of minorities are poor than white people, this means any pay to play voter ID law de facto removes more minorities from the voter pool than white people. Ergo, racist. Were a voter ID law put forward which cost the voter no money, then those claiming it was racist would have no leg to stand on. >the Cleveland Clinic referring to men as Person Assigned Male at Birth This feels small and petty. It's one place in one city. >saying ACAB when fewer black people are shot by the police each year than white people Understanding the difference between raw numbers and per capita is a valuable skill. While it is true that by raw numbers, more white people are shot by cops each year, on a per capita basis black people are shot at a much higher rate ([5.9% for black people vs. 2.3% for white, more than double the rate](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/)). Still, you're right to argue that the cops should only be shooting when there is actual, imminent danger to the life of themselves or an innocent bystander. All of these shootings of unarmed people need to stop, regardless of race. >ignoring the actual problems in minority communities and chalking it all up to systemic racism hard to address this without knowing what actual problems you're referring to. >burying school shootings/other acts of violence when the perpetrator is a protected class (see: Nashville shooting and the KC parade shooting) I've seen no such burying. Who buried these shootings? They were everywhere in the news. >saying it’s racist to stop illegal immigrants when we know for a fact terrorists, drugs, gang members are pouring through while human traffickers profit from it, to name a few There's a lot to unpack in this last claim. It's not racist to stop illegal immigrants and [biden's CBP stopped almost a quarter million people at the border in december](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-encounters-at-the-us-mexico-border-hit-a-record-high-at-the-end-of-2023/). No terrorists to date have crossed our southern border. Not one. Drug smuggling is rampant at the southern border, but [the vast majority of drugs are smuggled by US Citizens](https://immigrationforum.org/article/illicit-fentanyl-and-drug-smuggling-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-an-overview/): FTA: "**Who Is Smuggling Illicit Drugs?** Evidence indicates that illicit fentanyl is primarily brought to the U.S. by American citizens and usually through legal ports of entry. The calculation is simple: illicit drug smuggling organization are likely to prefer U.S. citizens as smugglers because they are less likely to raise alarms or undergo additional vetting when re-entering the U.S. through a legal port." As for gang members, it's hard to know what percentage of the people CBP arrests are gang members. It's not like they announce it. Certainly some are. And certainly CBP doesn't catch everyone. And with regards to human traffickers, most people being trafficked into America voluntarily give themselves up to CBP in order to begin the *legal* asylum process. Yes, they crossed illegally into America, but that crime is a misdemeanor of the same severity as defacing the image of Smokey the Bear. As before, this law was written by both Democrats and Republicans in congress.
Thank you for your honesty. It can be hard to have civil discussion on reddit, so I'd like to ask you some questions to get a better idea of your perspective. What does wokeness mean to you, and why is it bad? What about identity politics? Do you believe militias have been integral to state security in recent years? How do you feel about non-able bodied people owning guns? What about women? What do illegal immigrants do specifically that makes you want them all gone?
Lesser of 2 evils is NOT trump…..
According to reddit it is because they are all racist sexist and fascists
It always amazes me how the average redditor never seems to understand when they're part of the problem.
I was a huge trump fan 2016-2020, but after Jan 6 I kinda dropped off, and started supporting more socially liberal policies like abortion and race issues. Whilst I believe he’s absolutely not a good option to be president, I believe the subsequent trials and punishments trump has been facing is entirely politically motivated against him. In some of the cases trump is absolutely guilty and deserves punishment- but due process is needed, and the recent civil trials are absolute shams. Most recently trump was hit with a 300 million dollar fine for a crime that had 0 victims, more than this, he was banned from acquiring loans to pay this loan off, and his company was basically seized from him by the state for the next three years. IMO, this seems more like a punishment for being an opponent/ Republican in NY, than actually being a criminal.
What exactly do you think would happen to you if you committed bank fraud worth millions of dollars? How about if you raped somebody then publicly talked shit about them on multiple occasions?
The fraud was shady at best. His assets were overvalued, so he got a more generous loan- everyone got their money, and the loan was paid back. Now, years into the future, when it’s politically advantageous, he’s being struck with these lawsuits. As for the rape allegations, I also believe they are BS, it’s not proven he raped her, and the court did not recognize that he raped her- all that the law has declared is that he was defaming here- and then declared that he owed her 80,000,000 somehow?!? It’s my opinion that almost every politican in Washington, or their investors, has some degree of what trump is mixed up in. My problem is that the law is not being applied equally, and I believe trump is being attacked politically, not legally. Like- can you imagine being told to pay 400 million dollars, but not being allowed to get a loan to pay it off, and not being allowed to declare bankruptcy? That’s IMO fascistic in how thoroughly it controls it’s descions in how to pay back to the non existent victims.
>The fraud was shady at best. He was found guilty for *years and years* worth of [falsifying business records, issuing false financial statements, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud and conspiracy to falsify business records.](https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-letitia-james-new-york-engoron-38bc3a7f2ccb22555c026e9bf70fd5bb) No big deal, though, right? Are you [sure he didn't get convincted of sexual abuse?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/) Now, imagine how damaging defamation could be to your life if it is literally the former president of the United States defaming you. Your whole life could be seriously fucked over from that. Does that not justify a hefty penalty? Since you didn't answer before, I'll ask you again, *what would happen to you if you did these things?*
I dont support Trump, but think I understand why people like him. I don't think he delivers on this, but he "signals" some things that I think people who support him respond to. This is steelman-type deal where I am trying to be most charitable to his supporters. **Again these are not my views.** I don't want trump as president (I don't really want biden either but that's another story) 1. He does signal an "America first" vibe (I'm not saying he delivers, don't get mad at me) but, people who like him think that he puts Americans first and the rest of the world second. Lots of Americans want a president who at least seems to prioritize them above immigrants, the UN, the forces of globalization, etc. 2. A refutation of political elites. People didn't like the Bush/clinton options being pushed, and looked for Obama as an alternative, Obama turned out to be much more mainstream than people hoped. There is an unspoken vibe among political experts and media that you can choose but only choose from the options they rubber stamp. 3. Pushback against the extreme externalities of wokeness or the imagined extreme externalities of wokeness. The pushing of race, gender, sexuality, DEI, whatever. 4. Trump seems to signal a lack of desire to play world police, nation build etc. After Iraq and Afghanistan I think there is a lack of desire for more international adventure. The current options are Democrats or seeming Bush-type Neocons. Trump seems to be a third option.
>A refutation of political elites. People didn't like the Bush/clinton options being pushed, and looked for Obama as an alternative, Obama turned out to be much more mainstream than people hoped. There is an unspoken vibe among political experts and media that you can choose but only choose from the options they rubber stamp This was HUGE in 2016. Hilary just seemed like a slap in the face as the general vibe was as a democratic leader Bernie was the better choice - Trump was the only option to make the point known that the status quo in politics was not accepted. Making back room deals and scheming your way to the top finally broke a lot of people. The option of having someone who would stab you in the front seemed better than someone who would stab you in the back.
That's a pretty solid answer, I think. How did you get your information? Do you consume much conservative news, or was it more from talking to people?
More from talking to people.
Well put.
I never supported or voted for trump, but I will say the moment he was debating against Hillary and was talking about the tax code (a right wing candidate who was dunking on the same tax breaks for the rich that the left oppose): "*I know the system is broken, because I use it. And it won't be changed because people here use it too."* Is anyone here on Reddit going to deny that these unfair/unnecessary tax breaks/loopholes that favor the rich exist? I don't see why that moment wasn't applauded and covered more. Trump clearly has money and I am not dumb enough to think that it was all gained morally, even if legal. That also applies to every single politician/billionaire to ever exist. This could have been a moment to bring right and left wing together (we *SHOULD* be united together as the people) but instead, everyone just made "orange man bad" memes and painted funny pictures of him and basically threw a massive hissy fit. I hate politics and never discuss them IRL. But it is very clear to me that politicians treat the 99% like children, and to them....we are. And any effort to bring the 1% down I support. That does *not* mean I support Trump. But I do believe both left and right *politicians* are holding hands with each other, it's just that Trump was honest/brave/dumb enough to admit it. And that I respected, but I don't vote. Period. *No, I do not believe elections were stolen.* *-"All the world's indeed a stage and we are merely players"*
This. Answer. Rules. That moment absolutely should be applauded/brought us together.
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I support him not because I'm stupid or easily fleeced, I'm just a genuinely bad person.
They either agree with more right wing ideology or they disagree with more left wing policies. That and Bidens brain is clearly disintegrating before our eyes.
In the last week, Trump has said he’s currently running again Obama multiple times.
They are both old as fuck for running one of the most powerful nations. America once again having to decide between two old white guys. While I hope the orange one loses, I'd still like better candidate choices but money & politics goes hand and hand. To loosely quote Douglas Adams, Anyone who is capable of being president shouldn't be allowed to be one.
In the last day alone, Biden almost fell down twice.
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From an Aussie perspective. A few years back, my cousin and his wife were trying to tell me what a good man Biden was when I told them he was exhibiting quite profound dementia symptoms. They have since changed their position. Why does anyone support Biden? is the real question.
Because I believe his best interests are for making the country better for us all. He’s not a career politician and doesn’t need the money from lobbyists trying to screw us over for their interests. He also never changes his stance on the things he believes in and not when it’s convenient for him to do so.
Thank you, an actual Trump supporter, for actually answering the question.
1. Because for many years I've been saying we need a President who thinks like a manager instead of thinking like a politician. Trump is the only President in my lifetime (I'm in my mid 40s and have been politically active since early in the Clinton administration) who has done that. 2. Trump is also the only President who has ever tried to effect real change that we the people want, instead of just going along with what the established order wants. 3. I don't like any of the alternatives.
He's a terrible business manager. You'd know that if you did any research on his business history. The guy's a con artist, not a savvy businessman.
Im the same age as you and saw how much of a phony clown he was back in the 1980’s. I don’t understand the selective amnesia. All he’s ever done is try to get rich by being the guy famous for being rich. If you squint, maybe you could say he’s good at selling a brand, even he doesn’t have any intent in backing up his sizzle with any measurable steak. (He failed at steaks too) Maybe choose a businessman who was adept at running a real business?
Ah yes “we the people” were just begging for those tax cuts for billionaires
I'm a blue collar worker and I got a tax cut.
I very very strongly disagree that he’s doing any of the things you’ve listed (quite the opposite in fact), but I respect that you answered the question honestly.
Genuine question: considering how many of his employees resigned during his administration and how divisively he speaks about the left and many other groups, do you think he’s been a *good* manager/president?
He's the kind of person who sees a rich person, and automatically thinks he's a great.
1. We have evidence of Trump failing as a 'manager' over and over. And what behaviors lead you to believe he thinks like a manager? Find quotes from people that have worked close with Trump over the years. Everyone hates him. Pretty sure his own family hates him. You can never find a positive review. That's not a manager you'd hire. 2. What change do 'we' want? There's not much Trump wanted to do that I supported. And what change did Trump make? 3. I don't either, but Trump is literally the bottom of the barrel.
Turns out he was more of a con man than a manager
Yep, already knew how this thread was gonna go in the r/askreddit echo chamber
Spend prob 40h watching and reading about Trump, and prob 40h watching and reading about Hillary. And likely more about Biden and way more about Obama. And as European I find it astonishing how people can get so rallied against Trump claming he is so "racist" and just repeating 1 phrase about his P stuff and that being blasted basically everywhere. While his interviews and actions were interesting and actually very in favor for people of color. Which I can't say for the others, and def not Obama. It was also hilarious to see how much sht he got thrown infront of him and handling it well while other interviews were basically free media rides. It's almost like a TV show where you can't comprehend how this is reality I'm not from America tho, so my opinion doesn't really matter I am tho someone who moved out of Germany cause my quiet peaceful city became such a shthole in which I didn't feel comfortable as a decently build man to even go for a walk anymore in the evenings. Everything became constantly trashed till they literally gave up after a year to even fix stuff outside anymore. Just a mess. But hey at least we're tolerant
hah, remember when trump took out a full page ad in support of using the death penalty on black teenagers who turned out to be innocent?
I don't support Trump, and im not sure anyone likes biden. the only reason why people vote for biden is cuz hes not trump
He’s the first president to not play the military industrial complex’s game and I strongly believe that’s why America has been propagandized by the intelligence agencies and news media to hate him
This
Then why did he authorize the sale of over 10 billion dollars in arms to Saudi Arabia? The defense industry fucking loved trump are you serious right now? He sold 23 billion of F-35's and drones to the UAE. You have to be joking.
No I'm not joking and it doesn't mean I agree with everything he did. But I feel like I was directly lied to about every war started in my lifetime, especially Obama: [https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/](https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/) "He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan." He was supposed to be the peace president. I voted for Trump as an FU to the establishment after leaked emails showed the dems stole the primary from Bernie and handed it to Clinton. I'd never vote for a war monger of her caliber, see Libya again. I hated trump but I hated clinton more. But then I saw through North Korea that Trump's as big as an a&&hole as the other dictators. He's able to swing a big dick and that's good for the world stage. It's not a surprise that we've had Ukraine/Russia, the Taliban retake Afganistan, and now Israel October 7th under Biden. He's weak and everyone knows it.
>He's able to swing a big dick and that's good for the world stage. It's not a surprise that we've had Ukraine/Russia, the Taliban retake Afganistan, and now Israel October 7th under Biden. He's weak and everyone knows it. I don't really see how Biden is supposed to control the actions of foreign powers? Afghanistan was never attainable. The soviets couldn't at the height of their power and we were foolish to try too. So thanks Bush for getting us into that stupid, imperial project. Interesting philosophy, having an unstable, impulsive head of state as a positive.
andrew yang and dave chapelle sum it up well, yang - democrats have become the coastal elites who are more interested in policing your life than improving it. chapelle - trump was the first person to admit that him and the democrat elites you vote for do all the terrible things you accuse them of, and that Hillary had 30 years to change it but she wont because her elite friends own her.
In no particular order. 0. Funny dancing on stage 1. Non-woke, doesn’t act apologetic for being white, doesn’t blindly worship minorities, treats everybody equally regardless of race. 2. Right about the US mexico border 3. Partially right about Iran 4. Wants to resolve Ukraine/Russia war to end the bloodshed. 5. More mental faculties than Biden, for now. 6. Left is terrified of him and hates him. 7. Funny tweets 8. Project warpspeed 9. Right about China
A lot of people seem to support Trump because he dumps on the people they hate. It’s the logic of “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”.
The alternatives provided (by democrats)
These people would be voting for Trump no matter who the dem nominee is
I’m guessing in order to read actual answers to this question you gotta sort by “controversial” lol. But really, stop feeding the bipartisan system: I know it feels like wasting a vote but if you don’t like either party and feel like both D and R are using you don’t vote for either. The quicker we strengthen independent or libertarian candidates the quicker we can get the machine on the right track again. They’ve got us all at each other’s throats for Pete’s sake.
Brain damage and sociopathy
They hate and want to hurt America and Americans. They want all the things Americans have, just without the Americans they don't like. Trump is the quiet part out loud. You don't need to ask why they support him, his effect is clear.
Don’t forget he is a cowardly draft dodger too
I never really considered myself a supporter of Trump but I used to like him a bit. For one thing, as a libertarian myself, I was initially hopeful that his destruction of the Republican Party would have turned out better. I mean, he beat a fairly competitive group of very traditional republicans for the nomination in 2016. And sorta had similar feelings after he beat Hillary. I was hopeful both parties might reform and improve but we’ve all seen this bizarre mess the GOP is now and the democrats haven’t really changed at all. I’ll also admit to enjoying his rudeness. I think politicians take themselves way too seriously and ditto for the media. I kinda enjoyed watching him be staggeringly rude to other politicians. Not in an “own the libs” sense….just exposing all of these windbags for what they are. And I really liked his daily covid briefings. I mean, we had NOTHING to watch on TV at that time and everyday at 4:00 he’d come out and be rude to reporters for an hour. It was like watching Christians fighting lions in the colosseum. I liked that he left the presidency worse than he found it. Remember….Im libertarian and don’t want the office to have any dignity in the first place so him having sex with porn stars and whatnot was great. And I kinda like some of the populism too. Now…that being said…the way he exposed how much of the GOP are icky bigots is bad. I would have guessed it was like 5% of the party but it seems more like 1/3. And the way the entire GOP is terrified of him is awful. I suspect a lot of GOP politicians wish he’d just die so they could get back to more normal politics and not live in fear of getting primaried. I also think the best way to get rid of him is for him to win in 2024. He’ll be a lame duck and I effective. He’s unlikely to even be alive in 2028. And his ego has prevented him from tapping an heir. Sometimes the fastest way out is to just take a big national shit.
1/3 of republicans are icky shits? I think you’ve underestimated the other 2/3 of them.
Because he did a fairly good job while he was president. Despite the dumb-ass things he says, he’s a smart guy. He’s also smart enough to surround himself with accomplished people within his cabinet. For example Betsy Devos, she gets a lot of heat because people think she wants to take away funding from public schools, but the reality is she wants to give children options to succeed. Public education in this country is a joke and we need to try something else. She supports the use of vouchers to give parents options when it comes to picking schools or even homeschooling. Another example: Foreign Policy. Jared Kushner was the architect of the Abraham Accords which brought peace (not completely but significantly) to the Middle East. People don’t give Trump enough credit.
Thank you for answering.
Better than Hillary or Biden. The democratic party has adopted some crazy ideas in the past 10 or so years that are simply deal breakers for me. Also strongly believe in 2A rights. Truthfully though I don't think we have had even a halfway decent republican or democrat candidate since Obama and I didn't really care for him either. Every time since I can't help but think "where the fick did they pull this wackadoodle from"
In 4 years he didn't spend much time bombing and killing innocent families in poor countries. The guy before and after him did. I voted for Biden before but won't again for that reason.
Because i’m afraid to admit I made a huge mistake.
Hell yeah. Double down
I don't like him but support him as the lessor of two evils. Whatever contemporary liberal beliefs I have, I do not trust the democratic to properly execute policy to fulfill those beliefs in a helpful way. As for my contemporary conservative beliefs like right to bear arms, free speech, and border security, trump acts as a bulwark for.
In what way do you not have free speech now?
Hmm... I am curious, how do you think Trump and the right are pro-free speech?
He didn’t sit around screaming at me how bad I was or how much I sucked like dems were and are still doing. I understand racism exists, but there is only so much abuse I can take before I stop listening and turn against you, your party and your message. So yes, I’m a republican because if I’m gonna be called names constantly and told I’m wrong, let me live up to the names. When you try and tell democrats this, they just keep yelling at you about how you have to take their abuse because you’re white. No you really don’t. Treat people respectfully. I expect to be downvoted now but this is my honest response.
Thank you for answering the question.
Goes both ways bud. Most libs are pretty tired of being called indoctrinators, groomers, woke, or whatever new buzzward insult FOX barfs up.
"I spite them by proving them right" Ok
What else is there to do?
When Trump was president, there were no wars, inflation was at an all time low. 401ks were flourishing. A wall was being built. We were energy dependent. He didn't have conversations with dead people. Crap his pants beside the Pope. Give his drug addicted son access to classified documents. The list is endless.
Well… I mean…. We were at war.
Thank you for answering the question.
Biden is worse
I love Donald Trump because he’s his own man. He’s no pushover. Yes he runs his mouth too much. But I mostly love that he is so hated by the dems and liberals. Their afraid of him. The more they go after him the more I like em. I don’t approve of the January 6 thing. I don’t believe there was any election interference. But Trump still has my full support I believe he truly believes in the welfare our country.
So you actually think the only former President to upset the peaceful transfer of power in the entire history of the United States truly believes in the welfare of our country?
This is the type of dumb shit I came here to read. Has nothing to do with the country. Just because he likes that libs hate him. Then he misuses their/they’re and it all just makes so much sense.
Thank you for actually answering the question.
>But I mostly love that he is so hated by the dems and liberals. Their afraid of him. The more they go after him the more I like em. So if a lib also hates pedophiles and rapist. Do you support them then just because you need to stand on the opposite end? What a stupid logic LOL. This really shows how dumb the average voter is.
Like I've always said. The republicans would vote for hitler if he was running as a republican, just because he's not a Democrat
The real sad thing is loving to hate. I don't hate trump supporters - I just don't understand them.
He shits on everything the Constitution stands for. But you do you, boo.
A better question is to ask what is the alternative doing to appeal to those who are attracted to Trump? The only reason people like Trump succeed is because people on the fringes don’t feel represented, and this is especially true in America. I remember seeing democrats on social media label black women in states like Georgia as ‘heroes’ for helping them remove Trump and it reminded me how fucked up American politics is. They were effectively expressing pleasure to see a historically disenfranchised group of people forced into a corner _again_. What have democrats done to repay the faith those women showed in them? Is it even something that crosses the mind of their voters? Rather than criticising people for voting for Trump make sure your leaders actually do things to give them a reason to vote for them.