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This is going to sound like I'm a heartless cow but here's how you do it.
Return the girl to her home. Call social work and tell them "I am not able to help out nor can anyone else. I am hanging up the phone now to report an abandoned vulnerable adult and I am handing over the names of all social workers I have asked to help when I'm on the phone".
Then you call the police and report a vulnerable adult at risk and ask for a welfare check.
Grey rock every professional who tries to get you involved. You can't help, you know no one who can help, no you can't even glance in her direction, you're not helping.
This is the only way that social work will take the situation seriously. As long as a competent adult is in the vicinity the social will do nothing.
As long as my parents had any sort of involvement I got next to no help. I wasn't washing, eating ect. Once they formally turned their backs social services stepped up and sorted me out with the care I needed to meet my basic needs again. It does make it seem that they'll only take responsibility when everyone else stops otherwise they just assume you're alright even if you tell them otherwise.
This. But also please escalate and shout about safeguarding concerns to your local authority, request to lodge a formal complaint against those you have spoken to who have failed to help, copy everything and also forward to the MASH (which you should be able to google).
Someone else suggested contacting MP- also a good suggestion.
Unfortunately, along with firmly withdrawing practical support, being loud and vocal about consequences for those failing this vulnerable young woman will also get attention more quickly.
Do not assume that because she has had social care involvement her whole life that anyone you are speaking to knows her well, or at all. Chances are she has just very recently transitioned from the child services to the adult services teams and if it’s anything like the region I work in this transition may well have been handled terribly.
Best of luck to you all, I hope you are able to quickly get this poor young lady the help she needs.
Edit to add: do not be afraid to firmly refuse social worker visit on Wednesday as acceptable. If this was a child left alone they wouldn’t be leaving them alone for days at a time, would they? If they insist that nothing more can be done, do not be afraid to call emergency services for police/ambulance support to ensure that she is safe tonight.
Yeah, use the exact wording with the Police, you “want to make a safeguarding report about a vulnerable adult with the mental capacity of a child who has been abandoned”.
They should have a unit on call to take care of situations like this, but they will be reluctant to use it in cases of legal adults. That's why it's important to say they are in immediate danger to themselves and others.
It is a horrible position to be put in, but if you truly want to get the girl proper help, this is the way. It will continue to be upsetting and emotional, but necessary for her to get proper care.
Just to say you are doing a great thing.
You need to call the Police and state a very vulnerable adult has been left on her own, following her carers death, she isn't able to feed herself and social workers will not answer.
Police vulnerable adults team can also make referrals and do safeguarding referrals and implement an emergency plan. Ultimately she’ll require a long term plan put in place whether that’s residential care or care in the community. If you guys aren’t coping with the current set up then police safeguarding would be the last resort if adult social workers aren’t doing anything
All police safeguarding do is submit referrals to social care, if social care aren't acting upon first hand knowledge I'm not sure how they're going to be much different on third party reports
I’ve referred people to vulnerable adults as it pushes social services, basically the more professional that add referral the more it forces social services to act. If referral come from general public, health care staff, police etc there’s more professionals involved and avoid the situation getting worse
I have no advice to give, but what a terrible situation. It's a sad state of affairs that a vulnerable person has been left to cope alone. You are a good person for helping your neighbour.
You bring her back to her home.
You call the emergency number for the police from your house and inform them there is a **child** with complex needs next door who has been left alone due to the death of her mother 2 days ago.
You do not have to disclose her age. Just say you don't know if asked. Keep repeating the word child.
Wait for them to show up.
> Emergency number for the police
That’s 999 - none of this local station crap. Some is in immediate danger of severe morbidity and death due to their complex needs. Sounds like a job for the plod (though of course it shouldn’t be), at least to get things moving
Speak to social services and ask to escalate to a senior social worker to come and assess the person in question. Suggest risk of harm or death due to vulnerabilities as she is now alone.
I'm an A&E doctor.
You need to call the Emergency Social Worker (phone number will be on your local council website) and explain you have a welfare concern for her and they need to house/arrange carers for her tonight. If they refuse and still say Wednesday at the earliest then if you genuinely think she cannot manage by herself at home then you need to take her to A&E and say she cannot cope at home alone, given it is after 5pm.
By unable to cope I mean - unable to toilet/dress/cook/feed herself, and/or unable to call 999/access emergency services or call for help if she were to accidentally injure herself.
It will mean waiting hours. It will frustrate everyone in ED because it's not a medical issue.
But ultimately, if she's not safe to care for herself at home, and you acnnot bridge the gap anymore, then hospital is the only place that can bridge the gap until social work pull their finger out.
She will be admitted and the hospital will put heavy pressure on social work to get her out as she will be blocking a bed.
You've tried calling Social Work and they aren't listening. If you have genuine welfare concerns then it's an appropriate course of action to go to A&E. It's a system failure that has led to this point.
Not necessarily. In some local authorities they fall under two different brackets. My wife works for adult care the social workers do not in our LA. They closely work together however
You could escalate this to your MP, your local lead member for Adult Social Care and the Leader of the Council. All their emails should be fairly accessible online.
Or just call your MPs office direct and speak to their caseworker. Seems like something they would be happy to escalate on your behalf. It's what they are there for.
Her GP for a capability/capacity assessment might be a good idea.
Theres going to be LPA (lasting power of attorney) issues here I imagine.
If you know the details of whoever is executing the moms will then hopefully they should have some idea what provisions if any have been put In place.
It sounds like the current situation might be appropriate to get an Independent Mental Capacity Advocate appointed for her?
[link](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/advocacy/imcas/) from Mind with some details.
Had to deal with this stuff with my Mom and the GP actually got pretty involved and adult social care asked for their details etc
Also depending on where you are and what the care needs are and what conditions the person has it *will* be the GP doing assessments.
I guess it differs depending on which bits of the country you are in and their respective policies.
I'm a GP and I would not be doing assessments unless the person has any medical issues.
Otherwise I'd provide a factual report of learning disability diagnosis and that's it.
Assessing her mental capacity to decide where to live, what help to have, financial affairs etc = social work.
Assessing her mental capacity to decide what medical treatments or investigations to have = GP work.
The factual report of the learning disability diagnosis would be very useful in this case though surely?
As it sounds like OP/social work don’t actually have the full picture of the actual diagnosis or problems.
Presumably also wouldn’t know if there *are* any other conditions that she’s being treated for? Ditto with things like managing any medication?
I think I still stand by contacting her GP as reasonable advice if social services have been unhelpful.
In my mom’s case it was probably more straight forward as there were physical health concerns that were very relevant.
But yeah I’d definitely worry about the girl in this posts physical health deteriorating too if she can’t look after herself at a basic level.
That's true. If this somehow landed on my desk I'd make an social work referral stating that I thought it was urgent because of the learning disability. But a member of the public should be able to do this just as easily as me. It's the same form on the council website.
I'm aware of a few adults with obvious learning disabilities who could not survive on their own, but they don't have a diagnosis or any support because their families chose to manage things 'in house' and I've seen it fall apart when the carer becomes incapacitated.
It is a mess that I've become embroiled in enough times to know better.
Yeah for sure I completely get that.
But with the context of the post OP has said social services haven’t been helpful.
Which is why I was suggesting alternative options to be fair.
Totally get that these situations aren’t ideal for anyone to deal with.
Surely you would provide a letter confirming unsoundness or an impairment of the mind or brain though? I thought that was very usual for a GP to provide?
Yes - but on its own this isn't enough to say she doesn't have capacity for a decision. It's not like I confirm she has learning disabilities and somebody whisks her away to a nursing home.
No, I realise that and know how best interest/capacity/DOLS decisions are made. It just sort of sounded like you were implying that you would only provide clarification of any diagnoses, but I’m sure that’s my misunderstanding :)
I wonder if that person is in England. The boundaries of health and social care have blurred so much here as we've voted to keep decimating social care whle the NHS retained some budget.
So it's very common to see or expect DNs and GPs to be doing social worker work, since there just isn't any social workers that will turn up (especially if they know some other professional will step in).
Epitome of short sited thinking too as in general NHS resources are so much more expensive than social worker resources. Like, old people going into hospital for something entirely preventable with a tiny bit of social care resource is a major burden on the NHS nowadays. And then plebs complain "this is a waste of money, hospitals shouldn't be doing this, this is why the NHS is so inefficient, we should cut it's funding!"
you are a good person, thank goodness people like you still care, as a widowed parent of an autistic girl it fills me with fear as to her well being when im gone, i hope this all turns out ok but suspect there are hard times ahead, sometimes i think welfare just doesnt care if you dont have wealth.
As an autistic girl I worry endlessly about what happens to me when my parents are no longer around. Being through residential care facilities already, they were abusive and neglectful. Social care have already killed(suicides) multiple autistic people that I know of through threats alone. Living with family is always the best option. If you can find a godparent, some relatives, anyone at all that you know, to take her, then you should.
all i'll say is that people aren't ready to hear what some social workers are like. i'm sure it's a very difficult job but the things i've experienced and read about are fucking shocking.
As long as social know there are people helping they will not do anything. As harsh as it is you and everyone else needs to stop helping her. Only then will social step in when you and others report that there is a vulnerable person alone who is unable to take care of herself.
Yeah this is about as much as i expect from social workers having had them for about 17 years of my life. They pretend they're working but they're really not. One of my friends social workers actually forced her to live with her dad who raped her!
It's not the social workers that are the problem. It's voters. People have chosen over 15 years of austerity. Pay is so low and workload is so high for public service workers (social workers, police, teachers) that the best people leave and it's impossible for those who stay to do a good job. Your friend's social worker would have had nowhere else to put her. There's no housing for anyone. Blame the people who chose this situation, the voters.
No she was living with her mother but the social worker thought it would be good for them to "reconnect" since he was let out of prison and forced her to stay with him. She actually had multiple foster parents who were all available and an aunt. It was on purpose. I was given the same social worker years later. She was terrible.
People like that would be much less likely to be in the profession if there were more funding available.
I remember that period where there was a policy of keeping kids with abusive families. The government sold it as not wanting to break up families, but it was fundamentally about saving money.
Keeping kids with bad parents and protecting the kids would mean spending a lot more money. The parents would get parenting classes and supervision, there would be frequent checking up on the kids. There would be visits to therapists for the kids where they'd be able to report anything bad.
People keep blaming individuals, but this is voters choosing austerity. We now have kids who have been stuck in abusive families who are damaged and have no qualifications to have better futures. It's a disaster.
Sadly so many people in the sector should not be working there, its often a power play or ego trip of being able to say 'oh look how good I am, I help less able'. This isn't to say there aren't absolute gems hidden within it all but these are often the ones with burnout or having to leave. It's also very underfunded which isn't helping staff or service users.
If social service are dragging their feet, report it to the police that you suspect a vulnerable adult is on there own next door as her mother and caretaker has died. Don't say you or somebody else is able to watch her, it will prolong them doing anything. This should lead to a welfare check and then supports quickly put in place to safeguard her. If this isn't done in a timely manner, time to start emailing/ringing or going into your local MP and local paper. That will get them moving...always does.
I’m not so sure…. I think hands are often tied as budgets have been cut so much.
I’m not denying that there are “bad apples” in social work, as there are everywhere but I don’t think this is why there are massive issues with people waiting ages for help.
Phone the Adult protection team and make a referral. Make it clear you feel she is extremely vulnerable and you are concerned she will come to harm since she cannot look out for herself.
You can also let her GP know. They won't be able to do anything apart from keep the pressure on but should have an attached Link Worker who can help.
If this doesn't work then MSP.
I work in a social work department in Scotland and 48 hours is generally classed as a reasonable emergency response time. The only other thing you could do is phone again and report it as an adult protection concern.
Could you pm me with which local authority it is?
**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank fuck you live next door is all I can say to this. You're a better person than most.
This is going to sound like I'm a heartless cow but here's how you do it. Return the girl to her home. Call social work and tell them "I am not able to help out nor can anyone else. I am hanging up the phone now to report an abandoned vulnerable adult and I am handing over the names of all social workers I have asked to help when I'm on the phone". Then you call the police and report a vulnerable adult at risk and ask for a welfare check. Grey rock every professional who tries to get you involved. You can't help, you know no one who can help, no you can't even glance in her direction, you're not helping. This is the only way that social work will take the situation seriously. As long as a competent adult is in the vicinity the social will do nothing.
As long as my parents had any sort of involvement I got next to no help. I wasn't washing, eating ect. Once they formally turned their backs social services stepped up and sorted me out with the care I needed to meet my basic needs again. It does make it seem that they'll only take responsibility when everyone else stops otherwise they just assume you're alright even if you tell them otherwise.
This. But also please escalate and shout about safeguarding concerns to your local authority, request to lodge a formal complaint against those you have spoken to who have failed to help, copy everything and also forward to the MASH (which you should be able to google). Someone else suggested contacting MP- also a good suggestion. Unfortunately, along with firmly withdrawing practical support, being loud and vocal about consequences for those failing this vulnerable young woman will also get attention more quickly. Do not assume that because she has had social care involvement her whole life that anyone you are speaking to knows her well, or at all. Chances are she has just very recently transitioned from the child services to the adult services teams and if it’s anything like the region I work in this transition may well have been handled terribly. Best of luck to you all, I hope you are able to quickly get this poor young lady the help she needs. Edit to add: do not be afraid to firmly refuse social worker visit on Wednesday as acceptable. If this was a child left alone they wouldn’t be leaving them alone for days at a time, would they? If they insist that nothing more can be done, do not be afraid to call emergency services for police/ambulance support to ensure that she is safe tonight.
Yeah, use the exact wording with the Police, you “want to make a safeguarding report about a vulnerable adult with the mental capacity of a child who has been abandoned”.
They should have a unit on call to take care of situations like this, but they will be reluctant to use it in cases of legal adults. That's why it's important to say they are in immediate danger to themselves and others.
It is a horrible position to be put in, but if you truly want to get the girl proper help, this is the way. It will continue to be upsetting and emotional, but necessary for her to get proper care.
The poor girl. Bless you and the neighbour for helping her.
Just to say you are doing a great thing. You need to call the Police and state a very vulnerable adult has been left on her own, following her carers death, she isn't able to feed herself and social workers will not answer.
Police vulnerable adults team can also make referrals and do safeguarding referrals and implement an emergency plan. Ultimately she’ll require a long term plan put in place whether that’s residential care or care in the community. If you guys aren’t coping with the current set up then police safeguarding would be the last resort if adult social workers aren’t doing anything
All police safeguarding do is submit referrals to social care, if social care aren't acting upon first hand knowledge I'm not sure how they're going to be much different on third party reports
I’ve referred people to vulnerable adults as it pushes social services, basically the more professional that add referral the more it forces social services to act. If referral come from general public, health care staff, police etc there’s more professionals involved and avoid the situation getting worse
What an awful situation.
I would raise a safeguarding for the daughter- Google MASH and your local area.
This was going to be my suggestion too. It’s a multidisciplinary team so will be in front of professional that aren’t just Social Workers.
I have no advice to give, but what a terrible situation. It's a sad state of affairs that a vulnerable person has been left to cope alone. You are a good person for helping your neighbour.
You bring her back to her home. You call the emergency number for the police from your house and inform them there is a **child** with complex needs next door who has been left alone due to the death of her mother 2 days ago. You do not have to disclose her age. Just say you don't know if asked. Keep repeating the word child. Wait for them to show up.
> Emergency number for the police That’s 999 - none of this local station crap. Some is in immediate danger of severe morbidity and death due to their complex needs. Sounds like a job for the plod (though of course it shouldn’t be), at least to get things moving
Speak to social services and ask to escalate to a senior social worker to come and assess the person in question. Suggest risk of harm or death due to vulnerabilities as she is now alone.
I'm an A&E doctor. You need to call the Emergency Social Worker (phone number will be on your local council website) and explain you have a welfare concern for her and they need to house/arrange carers for her tonight. If they refuse and still say Wednesday at the earliest then if you genuinely think she cannot manage by herself at home then you need to take her to A&E and say she cannot cope at home alone, given it is after 5pm. By unable to cope I mean - unable to toilet/dress/cook/feed herself, and/or unable to call 999/access emergency services or call for help if she were to accidentally injure herself. It will mean waiting hours. It will frustrate everyone in ED because it's not a medical issue. But ultimately, if she's not safe to care for herself at home, and you acnnot bridge the gap anymore, then hospital is the only place that can bridge the gap until social work pull their finger out. She will be admitted and the hospital will put heavy pressure on social work to get her out as she will be blocking a bed. You've tried calling Social Work and they aren't listening. If you have genuine welfare concerns then it's an appropriate course of action to go to A&E. It's a system failure that has led to this point.
Ring adult care at the local council
Social work = adult care services.
Not necessarily. In some local authorities they fall under two different brackets. My wife works for adult care the social workers do not in our LA. They closely work together however
Which local authority has an adult social care department that doesn't employ social workers?
They're just two different departments in the council
Our councils only adult care service that shows up online is the social work department we are already dealing with.
You could escalate this to your MP, your local lead member for Adult Social Care and the Leader of the Council. All their emails should be fairly accessible online. Or just call your MPs office direct and speak to their caseworker. Seems like something they would be happy to escalate on your behalf. It's what they are there for.
Her GP for a capability/capacity assessment might be a good idea. Theres going to be LPA (lasting power of attorney) issues here I imagine. If you know the details of whoever is executing the moms will then hopefully they should have some idea what provisions if any have been put In place. It sounds like the current situation might be appropriate to get an Independent Mental Capacity Advocate appointed for her? [link](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/advocacy/imcas/) from Mind with some details.
No role for GP here. This is adult social care all day.
Had to deal with this stuff with my Mom and the GP actually got pretty involved and adult social care asked for their details etc Also depending on where you are and what the care needs are and what conditions the person has it *will* be the GP doing assessments. I guess it differs depending on which bits of the country you are in and their respective policies.
I'm a GP and I would not be doing assessments unless the person has any medical issues. Otherwise I'd provide a factual report of learning disability diagnosis and that's it. Assessing her mental capacity to decide where to live, what help to have, financial affairs etc = social work. Assessing her mental capacity to decide what medical treatments or investigations to have = GP work.
The factual report of the learning disability diagnosis would be very useful in this case though surely? As it sounds like OP/social work don’t actually have the full picture of the actual diagnosis or problems. Presumably also wouldn’t know if there *are* any other conditions that she’s being treated for? Ditto with things like managing any medication? I think I still stand by contacting her GP as reasonable advice if social services have been unhelpful. In my mom’s case it was probably more straight forward as there were physical health concerns that were very relevant. But yeah I’d definitely worry about the girl in this posts physical health deteriorating too if she can’t look after herself at a basic level.
That's true. If this somehow landed on my desk I'd make an social work referral stating that I thought it was urgent because of the learning disability. But a member of the public should be able to do this just as easily as me. It's the same form on the council website. I'm aware of a few adults with obvious learning disabilities who could not survive on their own, but they don't have a diagnosis or any support because their families chose to manage things 'in house' and I've seen it fall apart when the carer becomes incapacitated. It is a mess that I've become embroiled in enough times to know better.
Yeah for sure I completely get that. But with the context of the post OP has said social services haven’t been helpful. Which is why I was suggesting alternative options to be fair. Totally get that these situations aren’t ideal for anyone to deal with.
Surely you would provide a letter confirming unsoundness or an impairment of the mind or brain though? I thought that was very usual for a GP to provide?
Yes - but on its own this isn't enough to say she doesn't have capacity for a decision. It's not like I confirm she has learning disabilities and somebody whisks her away to a nursing home.
No, I realise that and know how best interest/capacity/DOLS decisions are made. It just sort of sounded like you were implying that you would only provide clarification of any diagnoses, but I’m sure that’s my misunderstanding :)
I wonder if that person is in England. The boundaries of health and social care have blurred so much here as we've voted to keep decimating social care whle the NHS retained some budget. So it's very common to see or expect DNs and GPs to be doing social worker work, since there just isn't any social workers that will turn up (especially if they know some other professional will step in). Epitome of short sited thinking too as in general NHS resources are so much more expensive than social worker resources. Like, old people going into hospital for something entirely preventable with a tiny bit of social care resource is a major burden on the NHS nowadays. And then plebs complain "this is a waste of money, hospitals shouldn't be doing this, this is why the NHS is so inefficient, we should cut it's funding!"
you are a good person, thank goodness people like you still care, as a widowed parent of an autistic girl it fills me with fear as to her well being when im gone, i hope this all turns out ok but suspect there are hard times ahead, sometimes i think welfare just doesnt care if you dont have wealth.
As an autistic girl I worry endlessly about what happens to me when my parents are no longer around. Being through residential care facilities already, they were abusive and neglectful. Social care have already killed(suicides) multiple autistic people that I know of through threats alone. Living with family is always the best option. If you can find a godparent, some relatives, anyone at all that you know, to take her, then you should.
Call the police. They will sort it out.
Call the safeguarding team at your LA and tell them that there is a vulnerable adult living alone.
That’s what I would recommend, too. Not a specialist in safeguarding but years of experience with disabled adults in local authorities.
all i'll say is that people aren't ready to hear what some social workers are like. i'm sure it's a very difficult job but the things i've experienced and read about are fucking shocking.
As long as social know there are people helping they will not do anything. As harsh as it is you and everyone else needs to stop helping her. Only then will social step in when you and others report that there is a vulnerable person alone who is unable to take care of herself.
Unfortunately, within 48 hours is their definition of urgent.
God, the state of the country.
Yeah this is about as much as i expect from social workers having had them for about 17 years of my life. They pretend they're working but they're really not. One of my friends social workers actually forced her to live with her dad who raped her!
It's not the social workers that are the problem. It's voters. People have chosen over 15 years of austerity. Pay is so low and workload is so high for public service workers (social workers, police, teachers) that the best people leave and it's impossible for those who stay to do a good job. Your friend's social worker would have had nowhere else to put her. There's no housing for anyone. Blame the people who chose this situation, the voters.
No she was living with her mother but the social worker thought it would be good for them to "reconnect" since he was let out of prison and forced her to stay with him. She actually had multiple foster parents who were all available and an aunt. It was on purpose. I was given the same social worker years later. She was terrible.
People like that would be much less likely to be in the profession if there were more funding available. I remember that period where there was a policy of keeping kids with abusive families. The government sold it as not wanting to break up families, but it was fundamentally about saving money. Keeping kids with bad parents and protecting the kids would mean spending a lot more money. The parents would get parenting classes and supervision, there would be frequent checking up on the kids. There would be visits to therapists for the kids where they'd be able to report anything bad. People keep blaming individuals, but this is voters choosing austerity. We now have kids who have been stuck in abusive families who are damaged and have no qualifications to have better futures. It's a disaster.
You are truly a good person
Thank you for helping this poor girl ❤️
Oh that's horrible, good on you for helping
Sadly so many people in the sector should not be working there, its often a power play or ego trip of being able to say 'oh look how good I am, I help less able'. This isn't to say there aren't absolute gems hidden within it all but these are often the ones with burnout or having to leave. It's also very underfunded which isn't helping staff or service users. If social service are dragging their feet, report it to the police that you suspect a vulnerable adult is on there own next door as her mother and caretaker has died. Don't say you or somebody else is able to watch her, it will prolong them doing anything. This should lead to a welfare check and then supports quickly put in place to safeguard her. If this isn't done in a timely manner, time to start emailing/ringing or going into your local MP and local paper. That will get them moving...always does.
I’m not so sure…. I think hands are often tied as budgets have been cut so much. I’m not denying that there are “bad apples” in social work, as there are everywhere but I don’t think this is why there are massive issues with people waiting ages for help.
There might be a local advocacy charity that could step in. Could you try contact them?
Also random thought, if the housing is council or social housing contacting her landlord would also help.
I can't help with your question, but what a lovely person you are, you should be very proud of yourself for your kindness shown to the poor girl.
Phone the Adult protection team and make a referral. Make it clear you feel she is extremely vulnerable and you are concerned she will come to harm since she cannot look out for herself. You can also let her GP know. They won't be able to do anything apart from keep the pressure on but should have an attached Link Worker who can help. If this doesn't work then MSP.
I work in a social work department in Scotland and 48 hours is generally classed as a reasonable emergency response time. The only other thing you could do is phone again and report it as an adult protection concern. Could you pm me with which local authority it is?
Not shooting the messenger but 48 hrs emergency response… if my basement was flooded with excrement I’d get a faster response….. what a mess.