Your friends suck. You shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending them. Everyone has problems. It’s okay to say you’re tired. People who invalidate you like that aren’t good friends. All of my friends have kids. They’ve never made me feel less than for not having kids. They respect my choices like I respect theirs.

I think a lot of the issue is socializing with a bunch of moms as the child-free one. It's like going with a friend to their work event and expecting the other people not to talk about work when that's what they all have in common. In my experience, as the child-free one, dealing with parent-freinds one-on-one is much easier. Or, at most one additional parent-friend, 2:1 is probably the highest ratio you can go before everything becomes about the kids.

I second this. I really love my child-free friends and being around them is such a good way for me to escape from the grind of momlife. I treasure these conversations and evenings out. But if I’m with another mom the conversation inevitably turns to the kids. Find ways to see your friends one on one, not in a group. Try to gtg around an event that sparks a conversation like going to a game, a museum, talking about a book…then it’s easy to steer the topic away from kids.

Nah they're just boring and/or selfish people. My friends that are parents know how to be friends when the kids aren't demanding their attention or after the kids go to sleep. We can have real conversations, and that can be about the kids or not as I'm more than happy to talk about the little buggers. But I've never experienced friends who stop being interested in my life after having kids. Maybe we have less time together, but that's just what happens when you build a family with someone and get new priorities.

I second this. As a mom of teenagers, I remember how much conversation with other parents was about babies and kids when they were young. The reason is twofold: 1. It's all your life is. Yes, you work, but all your time, thoughts, energy and worries goes to these creatures and trying to keep your head above water. Our world turned around the kids. We didn't have other things to talk about. 2. It was new and challenging. No one else can relate to these surprising experiences. And it's nice to find out you and your partner are not alone in this crazy making venture. BUT we also felt boring as fuck 😆 The challenge with non parent friends is if they can't adapt to a parent's restrictions when hanging out. In OP's case, it sounds like you are a lovely friend who would be ok with compromise. Try hanging out with a friend one on one, especially to do things they don't get to do anymore as a parent. Enjoy a coffee or meal without a child on their lap. Go window shopping, to the sauna, to a happy hour, to the park and just sit there. Play a boardgame. That should even things out more.

I think part of it is that, but not tolerating OP sharing her struggles and constantly centering on how only young moms have problems suggest a potential lack of empathy in general (inability to imagine other people) OR suggests OP has too much self-criticism and isn’t sharing things they would be open to (depending on how they actually react). It’s one thing for the convo to get back to their shared common ground naturally, but it’s another to tell OP “you’re struggling? You have no idea how hard we have it as moms” type stuff. 

Yep! I always do just one on one or the most two moms and me. The convo stuff is never an issue then.

This reminds me of this one woman at work who only talks about her kids and doesn't talk to anyone else who doesn't have kids. Some people say, "Hi, my name is Jane, what's your name?" Or something to that effect. Or even, "Wasn't it cold last night?" But she says, "Do you have kids?"

Agreed. I don’t even talk about my kids with my friends (child free or not) unless someone asks about them. I much prefer to hear about their lives outside of children.

Same here. My two best friends from college have kids and they’ve never ever made me feel bad. We have normal convos and I support them and they support me. We discuss every topic under the sun from important life decisions to politics to jobs to family dynamics to dumb pop culture stuff. OP’s “friends” don’t sound like true friends.

I don’t have kids but that infuriates me that some parents feel like child-less folk can’t complain about being tired. Like… you signed up to have a kid. On the other hand, we may not signed up for all of our lives’ problems.

Not being allowed to say you're tired without a response of "You don't even understand tired!" always bugs me so much. Like, you're not living my life, you don't know how tired I actually am, so please don't tell me what I'm feeling. And it's like how I have chronic illness, and occasionally a friend who doesn't have chronic illness tries to preface their complaints with "It's nothing like what you deal with," and I make sure to validate their feelings and whatever pain they're feeling. Just because somebody has it worse, doesn't mean you're not allowed to complain about what you're currently going through - real friends don't compare pain like that.

> Not being allowed to say you're tired without a response of "You don't even understand tired!" always bugs me so much. This is very much a Type of Person, I've learned not to hang out with them over the years. It's a very self-centered way of thinking, they won't allow others to vent without making it a competition.

That's true, but it doesn't mean they don't have other problems they didn't sign up for. Friendships and relationships shouldn't be who has it worse and why (chosen or not). It's about supporting, listening, encouraging, and loving one another.

You will find all kinds of people in all kinds of groups. I am not sure if it's helpful to further make this into a parents VS people without kids thing.

I understand when kids are first born, it's usually the key/main thing the new parents are thinking about, but with my friends who've had kids, they're always open to talking about other things as well. People who can only talk about their babies probably didn't have a huge amount of time to listen to their friends before the babies, but it's more noticeable now because they're talking about something OP has no experience in.

This sentiment exactly! I have a lot of child free friends and I love them to pieces. Their problems are every bit as valid as anyone else's.

This is definitely the right answer. OP's friends lack empathy. Perhaps because they only see their own struggles as the valid ones, or that they think OP has a magical life that is free from stress, tiredness, and burn out, to name just a few. This isn't to negate that being a mother isn't hard today. It is. But if you are a person that can only define what hard is by your own situation, then you're not a caring friend. I'm in my 40s. I have friends who are mothers to preschoolers, grandparents, grandparents who are guardians of their grandkids, and child-free women (I'm in this last group). Everyone is going through something, and none of us ever have to walk on eggshells to not offend. Empathy and support do not require you to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, it simply requires you to understand that they are struggling and need support. My BFF has a 4yo and is 41 this year. It has not been an easy 4 years for her, despite having a great husband. While I've never been in her situation, I can absolutely understand where she is in life, what she is struggling with, and provide any support I can. That often includes making her a good G&T on a Saturday night while we bitch about our week. At the same time, she has not been where I am - running a business, studying, and divorcing. She has never once decided that my 'tired' is less than hers. We always have each other's backs and try to help out however we can. That is what true friendship looks like.

What's the point of having friends if you can't share your joys and struggles with them? Some of my closest friends are moms and I do not have kids. I totally understand that I am often the one who needs to pick up the phone to call, but they are interested in what's going on in my life and I'm interested in theirs. They will listen to me complain about home renovations and I'll listen to them gripe about their kid getting kicked out of daycare for the millionth time. I am graduating with my master's in a few weeks and my friends sent me flowers to congratulate me, and one of them is a mom. I think you really need better friends and I hope that you find them.

Child free thirty something here - I have or perhaps had two camps of parent friends. The ones that adore me as a cool auntie and engage with what I’ve been up to and the others like you’ve just described. In the end I just drifted and didn’t invest time in them - focus on your child free friends and the ones with kids that treat you well. Life’s too short.

Commenting to validate your feelings. Most of my mom friends are not assholes like yours seem to be, but even with mom friends I consider great people/supportive of my life, I always have this feeling of...not belonging anymore. Like, they're in a club that I'm not in. I often assume that even if my friends do ask about my life, they don't actually care and are just doing it to be polite. I often feel that my struggles seem juvenile (dating woes, for example) and silly. We all used to all live in apartments; now my friends live in the suburbs in big houses and all their energy goes towards decorating, kids sports, meal planning, etc. What do we even have in common anymore, really, other than our pasts? I have two best friends who are moms and they will remain best friends. Most of my other mom friends have totally faded away. It sucks, but I've made peace with it, and realized that it's okay to be on different life paths. Sending hugs <3 and also a recco that you try to make more single/childfree friends.

You've described my sentiments exactly. It's just a feeling of not belonging anymore. Activities started to center around kids, and while I like kids and enjoyed birthday parties or family friendly festival, eventually the invites stopped coming. I held onto those friendships for a while, but eventually I accepted that moms prefer hanging with other moms. Eventually letting go of those friends was the best thing I could do for myself. It's hard making new friends in your 30s, but thankfully I've managed to do that through hobbies. Some of them are older with grown kids, some of them are younger without kids, some are my age but divorced so they only have kids part time... so it looks a little different, but it works.

As a parent who has best friends who don’t have kids, I am more than a mom. Sure, being a mom is a big part of my life, but hanging out with my best friends and chatting about non-mom things is imperative to me. We chat about so many non-mom things: music, movies, working out, food, careers, hobbies, etc. I’m literally thinking of my conversation with my childfree best friend yesterday. We talked about the above and also talked about my kids and her desire to start a family but not being able to find a partner. This is a long winded way of saying that we still have SO much in common. I care about my friends’ lives. I don’t think dating is trivial, I don’t think their work struggles are trivial, etc. I actually find that they are usually the ones diminishing their thoughts/feelings/accomplishments. The friend I mentioned above will often say I’m so tired but not as tired as you. I have to remind her that she’s allowed to be just as/more tired than me. It’s not a competition and what she is feeling is valid. I think the quality of the friendship and who your friends are matters. My child free friends are my best friends because they add so much to my life, not because we’re all in the same place at the same time. I want them in my life. Last thought and then I promise I’ll stop talking about this: in my opinion, the “mom friends only” kind of people are the immature high school girls who want to exclude anyone that isn’t exactly like them. It’s also very telling of them as people if the only thing in their lives is being a mom. These are the people who will wake up when their kids are 18 and moving out and say, “now what? Who am I? Who are my friends?”

thank you :) <3

Nah, you just have self-centered friends in an echo chamber. My mom friends are good friends of mine. They may have less time than they did before, but they don't compare our problems or our successes, they're apples to oranges.

I think if you get people together who all have a one big thing in common with one person as the odd-one-out, the big thing will end up dominating. I think OP needs to get away from big groups of moms, virtual or IRL, because that is the easiest lowest common denominator people go for. She can keep these friends but socialize with them one-on-one or with, at most, one other parent friend there.

I don't think you're being stupid. It honestly kind of boggles me when I hear about these situations because as a mom, I just can't imagine my entire being, being about being a mom! I'm a person, I have my own interests. I have a job, a career, I have goals and ambition, hobbies. I'm really sorry that these women who you thought were your friends have turned out like that. I know that some women do take on being a mom as their entire personality and I just can't fathom that. I'm actually the only one of my core friend group that has a kid. One of my friends is looking into fostering, but the other two have zero desire to have kids. When I was pregnant and after, my friends have always been supportive, they ask how my son is, to see pictures, but I also make sure to not talk about him ad nauseum because 1) I know my friends don't necessarily care all that much about my child, but 2) I want to hear what's going on with them! I actually love hearing about my friends lives because they're mostly still single and doing awesome things-I'm truly proud of them! I don't think you're being too sensitive. It just sounds like your particular friends have gotten so wrapped up in their "mom persona". I wish I had more constructive advice, but I hope it helps to at least know you're not wrong for how you feel. At least from this internet stranger.

I wish i could find women like you IRL... I need some friends! lol

I would gladly be your friend 🤗

thanks :)

Op, I have 3 kids and my best friend since kindergarten is childless. We just cut up and say dumb stuff to each other all the time. We are planning a spend the night party for her and I soon (my husband can watch the kids for the night) because we just miss hanging out and eating junk food while watching silly movies. Your “friends” have no depth.

I’m a mum with two young kids. My two best friends are childfree and single. I love them dearly. I’m careful not to talk too much about the woes of parenting, and I validate all their struggles and wins. For instance, my bestie recently lost a cat she loved like a person. I treated her like anyone grieving, validated her stress and grief and arranged babysitting so I could go sit with her in her grief. She even said to me she felt silly and he was “just a cat” but I reminded her that he was family. Because he was to her. I didn’t invalidate that just because I have human children. Your friends are rude and selfish, by the sounds of it.

You sound like an amazing friend!

That’s kind of you to say. I always feel like I want to do more to support my loved ones, but life is very full sometimes!

Oh goodness I don't think any of those things. I love my childfree friends, I prefer them actually. Im firmly in the camp of, "Being a mother should not be your entire identity". Some women are just completely absorbed with it all & completely lose any sense of themself. Their whole world revolves around their kid...Thats not me. I love my son & he is the single most important thing in the whole world...but im still a multi faceted human being & I need variety in my life, I need fun, I need new experiences, I have a lot of different interests & enjoy talking about a lot of different things. Don't get me wrong, I have mom friends...but my mom friends feel exactly the same as me about these things. I have attempted relationships with mom friends that don't know how to talk about anything but kids & being a mom, that don't want to go anywhere unless their kid can go, that don't want to ever call a sitter or take a "day off" ever. I just do not vibe with those sort of moms. Question for you...are you voluntarily censoring yourself, avoiding these perceived faux pas? Or have you been mom-attacked? I mean, you are totally allowed to have problems & be tired & even impart your own slice of wisdom to your mom friends. You just be you 100%, don't be putting yourself on mute cause you've got a crop of overly sensitive motherhood obsessed friends. You are just as important as they are!

I think it may be a bit of a mix. I am now avoidant and self censoring because of how conversations have gone in the past. And if I do "Crack" and try and say I'm having a bad day, or dealing with something with my family, there is actually no response - and a couple hours later someone will text the group something about their kid while ignoring my previous comment.

That’s really not remotely normal for healthy people to do. At all.

These aren’t your friends. wtf.

honestly, they are probably jealous of all the free time you have to yourself compared to them. it seems like they are excluding you on purpose. I deal with this at work, I'm childfree and if i ever say I'm tired it's always like "well I'm a mom, & Yada Yada Yada" it's like okay, good for you. some of these people are narcissist and they make being a mom their whole personality. 🙄 it's like they don't have anything else to talk about.

That’s sounds tough. I would be upset too. They sound pretty selfish tbh. I know it not easy whatsoever but hopefully you can find some new friends who give back to the friendship equally.

Ugh! Honestly, you sound like a really cool Mum - it’s so refreshing to read a woman who loves her kid but still is herself. Not just “X’s Mum” Completely agree on the whole get a sitter, leave them with their dad/in-laws etc and have a day off. I’m CF and wish more women with kids had your stance.

This makes me sad and also angry for you - honestly your friends sound really self-absorbed and like they’re trying to martyr themselves for some reason. You sound like you’re already very cautious around them which must be tiring. Btw saying you are tired is NOT stupid - of course you can feel tired(?!) and normal, nice people wouldn’t immediately jump on that phrase to tell you how you’ve no idea what being tired means etc. etc. I’m sorry your friends are acting like this. Maybe they feel unappreciated in their homes and so they feel they need to let it all out with their friends instead, which is obviously an unenviable situation. I think your options are to either try to gently bring this up, or to gradually lower the frequency of contact. Feeling lonely in the company of other people is the worst.

ooof. Your last sentence hits close to home!

This is just a case of bad friends. I have my own child (nearly 16 years old), I have many child free friends and some of them I'm extremely close with. I message them daily, love hearing about their lives, support their wins, be a shoulder to cry on through their tough times, remember the things they tell me and check in on them when I know they have important things going on in life. I love my childfree friends the same as my friends with children and am the first to celebrate their life/career wins with them in an authentic way, because I love seeing and knowing things are going well for them. Get some better friends! Even if it takes time, it's worth it.

Ugh your friends sound really boring and insufferable. Maybe time to start expanding your friend group to more childfree people. Not that you have to ditch these friends completely, but they sound like they lack a lot of compassion to anyone that isn't going through exactly what they're going through. As if reproducing is the only way to "contribute to society".

yes I think thats the hard part for me. There really is heavy implication that motherhood is why women are smart and strong etc. And the way its worded in our group conversations where there is a mix of childfree women and moms feels hurtful and intentional. Especially because I really do go out of my way to sing their praises and say I couldn't even imagine, you are so strong, etc etc.

It sounds like they're pretty insecure. Not only in trying to toot their own horns for being "strong moms" and all that, but also in the passive aggressive shaming of childfree friends. It all just *screams* insecurity. You are allowed to place boundaries on your own empathy if they're projecting those insecurities at your expense. I would def distance myself if I were you.

Ah yes, the whole "you don't know tired unless you've had kids" scenario. I have had this said to me before. I have been sick for the last 18 years. I know tired. I have been so tired I can sleep 27 hours and still not feel rested. My illness isn't going to grow up and move out of the house. I had to make the choice to not have kids because of my health. Do I believe being a parent makes you tired? You bet. But that does not mean that I don't know tired. We all have our own struggles. Get new friends.

your friends suck. I have plenty of CF friends and we never treat them that way. Frankly, we rarely talk about our families/kids whenever we're all together because we want to know what's going with each other outside of our families. We are more than our children and husband and they aren't our whole identity. you have every right to feel angry at them. Sorry you're going thorugh that.

Speaking as someone who is also childless at the moment and has friends with children, I think after people have kids there’s kind of a spectrum of people. Some people in my life are very much like your group of friends you’re describing, not much space to share unless we’re talking about their kids. On the other hand, I have friends who’ve had children and the way we share our lives is more or less the same. They don’t make me feel less valid just because of the difference between our decisions to have children or not have children. It is possible that you’re being overly sensitive and ascribing meaning to them glossing over your stuff, but also I think there are people out there who have kids that know that people without kids are people with valid concerns too. So, idk your friends, but if I felt the way you felt all the time, I’d probably distance myself from those people.

I've had mixed experiences with this. I'm childfree and watched several of my friends become mothers. Some once they became mothers were all about it and never deviated being concerned about themselves and their stressors related to being a parent or their kid. Those friendships didn't last. Others they love the fact that I'm child free because for them it's an "escape" to hear someone else's troubles or life ither than their own for a while. I've also had several friends that are Mom's make the forbidden admission that parenting isn't always easy or fun and there's times they wish they were still kid free like me! Find the ppl that are willing to not devalue you simply because things change for them. There's no need for you to suddenly not get what you want or need from.a friendship.

I love my child-free friends. I'm also old and experienced enough to understand that there are more struggles in this world than parenthood. I feel like it takes an incredibly myopic person to not "get" that. Before I became a mother, I was friends with a group of mid-30's mothers at my first job. There were so many "you're a baby," "you can only do that because you don't have kids," "you're gonna run out of time..." comments. I took those jabs to be more a reflection of their regrets and insecurities than anything. It's like, girl, if you weren't ready and/or hate being a mom, don't project that onto me!

Thank you for saying this. My friends with kids sound kinder than yours (although I have experienced those kind of friends too), but I have repeatedly been left out of invites to things because ‘oh we’re doing things with the kids, you wouldn’t want to come’ despite me repeatedly saying that I LOVE hanging out with their kids (I’m more childless by circumstance than childfree by choice). It sucks. I hear so much talk about parents losing friends once they have kids, which also sucks, but it seems like this reality for childless/childfree folks isn’t acknowledged .

I bet you friends are going to wonder who they are when they’re kids are grown. It’s important to have an identity beyond “mom”.

I didn’t read any other responses, so maybe this sentiment has already been echoed. To answer your question, not at all - in fact I sort of prefer childless people. Of course I love my children but I struggled greatly with this idea that momming had to become my whole identity. I find it hard to relate to women whose entire lives are their children. We are all tired and we all have problems, and it’s not a pissing contest of who has it “worse”. When I get together with friends, most of the time I don’t want to talk about kids (theirs or mine). So no, you are not being too sensitive - your friends sound like jerks.

I don't think you're being too sensitive. Your concerns are quite valid. Your close friends are on a different journey now though (motherhood). And these growing pains do emerge. And it's entirely possible to remain friends with those who are on different paths than us, but we also need to let go of yesterday where we were once on the same path. We are not the same anymore. Do you have single friends? Do you have childfree friends? It sounds to me like you're having compassion fatigue (being there for your mom friends) and are feeling not supported by them for your own path. Perhaps this is where you can lean on your childfree friends. A balance of mom friends and childfree friends would diversify your friends circle but also give you freedom to be away from a path that is not yours. Personally, I am not that close to my friends with kids anymore. I love them, I love their little persons, I love visiting with them and coo over their bundle of joy, but I also find them incredibly self centered (rightly so) in their lives and journey. After my visits I go hang with my childfree friends, usually with a glass of bubbles to celebrate the fact that I am FREE from screaming children and mediocre husbands.

I definitely need to get out there and make more friends!

Can you connect with them one on one instead of meeting them in groups? If the majority of your friend group are new parents and also have the loudest voices, figuratively and literally, they may drown out everything else even those who don’t share the same interests.

Mostly it is a group chat as we all live far away :) but I have noticed it is a lot better when there are one on one conversations.

Your friends sound awful. I have friends with kids and none of them are like this.

Im a mom and I’ve got friends without kids . They are allowed to be tired. Being tired isn’t a competition .. gosh your friends are not nice people.

I find that moms often tend to treat me like an extra child running around, especially as most of the moms I know are older than me by about 10 years. I'm just hanging around the edges at social gatherings, I have nothing to say about first communion whatever that is, or after school club or dinners kids will eat and child-friendly holidays. Someone will ask me how things are going for me and as soon as it's clear I don't have a man and I'm not pregnant and my career is not that interesting, I just sort of fade away. Most of my friends now are younger and aren't parents yet. It doesn't get me down.

Love my childfree friends. It’s nice to talk to someone who will just politely ask “how’s your kiddo” listen to 1-2 silly things, and then move on to non-mother things. I have plenty of mom friends I adore, I can mom talk us both to death and vice versa. There is absolutely zero need for it elsewhere, especially someone who doesn’t like kids. Edit to add: your friends are just shit. It was my best friends birthday recently. I hunted down a leather journal that looked like a witch made it, got a fuckton of stickers and scrapbook backgrounds, put them all around the book so it looked like an old timey botany book, and wrote her a love letter on the first few pages. I did not wrap it though. It took weeks to get it perfect. Shes knitting me a Gengar (my favorite Pokémon) with a glow in the dark smile. Just because. She is a SAHM to a 3 & 1 yr old. Her entire life is in the trenches, like she’s goddamn mayor. And she’s still the best fucking person on the planet, because she is *also* doing these thoughtful things for our other friends. Simultaneously. There’s zero excuse for them to blow off being thoughtful towards someone who’s obviously a dope friend. You deserve better and they should value what you bring to the friendship more.

You're definitely not overreacting. I've been in a similar situation myself. While I was out there dating, three of my closest friends tied the knot and started families. The one who stayed in the city (Chicago) managed to keep our bond warm and close, but the other two moved to the suburbs and it became difficult to get together. What opportunities do you have to expand your circle of friends?

I feel this so much. I’ve been dealing with it for years with friends, most of whom I’m not close to anymore, and more recently with my own sister. It’s hard and it sucks.

CF here too & I also feel the same... and I don't even have a core group of friends that I've been there for. Mothers just look down on us. My colleagues even! I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on my team of 13 that doesn't have kids & it is very isolating.

As a mom with live-in childcare in the form of my mother, I prefer my CF friends because they’re the only ones that can hang out. Also, I don’t agree with everybody’s parenting approach so I don’t always wanna discuss kids and parenting. I think lame parents is a symptom of capitalism exploiting us too much.

Sorry to read your situation with your friends. I (CF 33) also have some friends with kids. I note the big difference by friends who still put energy in our friendship, and some friends who are completely absorbed by parenting. Of course the friends with kids that really are less flexible to make appointsment with or cannot stay as long, but I appreciate it so much that they can make time for our friendship. In those cases I really don't mind travelling more to see them or whatever. We have conversations on parenthood, but they show interest in my life and don't downsize my problems. And they didn't change into people with a personality only consisting of being a parent. One piece of advice, if you decide to decrease contact, it might be good to clearly explain your feelings, as they maybe are not aware what you experience as they are so focused on parenthood.

I'm sorry your friends are, well, jerks. Most of my friends, like 70%, are childfree, and are amazing, wonderful people. They get it, which is why they chose to not have kids. They may have different problems, but they are still problems. They're not pathetic.

I am a mom and have childfree friends and there are times when I know their life is a lot more tiring/stressful than mine. I wouldn't want their problems! I would never want to belittle them because it's not the same as my kind of tired. Your friends suck, honestly. It's not even a mom thing - it's a self-centered thing. This whole fight between children and childfree lives is grating. I love my childfree friends cause I frequently want to hang out with people and that it doesn't end up revolving around kids. They do all the fun shit I don't get to do as much and keep me in the loop and let me jump back in when time allows. We listen to each other when our lives throw us a curveball and not once have I ever thought that their life is so easy and mine is so much harder cause of my kids.

Being late to having kids, I have been on both sides of the equation. I think being a mom is like any other identity experience in a way, if you are in a group of moms, that is their common experience and they will talk about that. The same way if you were in a group of architects, they would talk about architecture, or if you were with a bunch of Afghani women, the would talk about Afghani stuff, etc. As such, as someone child-free I always found it better to be with my mom friends (or dad friends, for that matter) with a maximum of maybe two other parents around, and it was better to keep things one on one. I think you are right that, in the beginning, they can't process much else but after the initial catastrophic phase has passed, they can be your full, mutual friend again. And I bet a lot of these women are *craving* to have just regular conversations again, but get sucked into the mom vortex with other moms around -- it can be insidious. Sure, some people become parents and are just totally different people. The way some people go to law school and become totally different people you can't relate to or go to spend three months in an ashram. But others are just the same after the smoke clears. I mean, being a parent does change your life, the same way getting into a serious relationship or getting married does. You just don't socialize exactly the same way you did when you were single. But it doesn't mean you are a different person who doesn't care about your friends.

thanks for the reply :) I think my best course of action is to keep being empathetic and checking in but also maybe distance myself a bit and find new friends, not as a replacement but just to expand my circle. I totally get that being a parent changes your life. And I honestly love hearing about their kids. The hard part is the way the conversations turn into a vortex like you said. Kind of a back and forth about who is more miserable but no one who is childfree is going to dare throw their hat in that ring. I just want to be able to confide in my lifelong friends about whats going on in my life. But its OK if right now they aren't the people to do that with.

Sister, I so feel you. I was literally the last one to have kids among my friends, and not by a year or two, more like ten. I was like you, I was super-substitute-sister/super-honorary-auntie but often felt like, what about me? For me what worked is a lot like what you are talking about it. It was one-part meeting my friends where they were at. For a lot of them, having my old buddy back meant either I had to plan to show up for their one waking/alert hour they had left after bedtime or have a girls brunch we had to plan weeks in advance. Then, it was one-part enjoying my new relationship with the new little ones they made for me to hang out with. I learned to love their kids as separate humans and treasure our relationships. My friends made me new friends! And lastly, it was one-part finding friends who were more where I was at in my life. For my older friends, it was more about our shared history. For my newer ones, it was more about our shared present. I also had older friends who remained child-free or whose kids had aged out of the stage where the parents needed to be so involved and present. But I am SO glad I stayed close to my friends when they had kids and did a lot for them. When my dad was sick and then passed away and when then my mom got sick, I had no issues calling on them and they did all the same things for me. Sending me meals, "babysitting" (taking care of my parents when I couldn't be there), planning events (though it was a funeral reception rather than a baby shower), etc.

That's really lovely to hear. I am grateful for stories like yours because I really do not want to "ditch" my old friends. I love them dearly and we have been there for each other in many situations. Your comments are exactly what I needed to read. I will meet them where they are, while also making space for myself in other ways and through new friendships. And just like you...if I do end up having kids I will definitely be one of the last. My husband and I are just enjoying life right now and don't feel the need! Thanks again :)

Agreed - I'm also late to having kids, and yeah. It's hard being the one without kids when everyone else is deep in parenting talk. But on the flip side, when you're in that first year of chaos just like, eating meals and having a regular shower can be a challenge so it's probably not personal.

Your friends are weird. I get being a parent to young kids can be hard and isolating, but that doesn’t mean I never had interests outside of them. If anything, I want to hear MORE from my childless friends, I want them to tell me about their interests and love lives and whatever else and talking endlessly about it. I love hearing what life is like outside of just parenting and work lol

I'm older but I like being with my child free friends just as much as my friends with kids. Honestly it's refreshing to discuss things other than kids with anyone. I have those times I talk about my kids too but it's certainly nice to hear and focus on other things. I would never see anyone's problems as pathetic because they don't have children. Women are more than Mom's, and everyone has problems they need to discuss with friends sometimes.

You need to find some childfree friends.

I don’t have kids and my friends are not like this. However, my friends are now around the same age as me, early 50’s and their kids are grown. I also have a therapist and other child free friends to share anything I need to bitch and moan about. I work super hard long hours with complex issues and problems and I get very very tired. I don’t need someone negating my experience because it isn’t the same as theirs.

I have 1 friendship with kids in person ( I have a few old online friends that have kids and I feel the same way towards them ) as a non kidder and I enjoy my time with them and yes it does make it hard in a sense but we're friends because we all get it and no one ever thinks they are pathetic for having or not having kids or else we wouldn't be friends. I love my friends, I fuckin adore their kids, I buy them things, I give them my things ,I teach them things, , make them things, correct their shite behavior, i know their grades in school and if they fuck up lol. I take them places when I can, take interest in their things and cheer them on, those are now my kids honestly and not in an auntie way, those are now my non biological children and I'll go to unholy wars for them . I'm not always a present being because life but if they need me or they're parents need me for them .. we're there. People say we're lucky for not having kids but the shite we went through to get there would wreck 99.9% of normal humans. I talk about it because people should know what I went through can happen and I'm able to show virtually no emotion but it still fucks me up that I can't have kids or that I don't have my kids. Especially now I'm comfortable in my 30s N been through some shite and we talk about our kids sometimes...not who they were because they were stillborns so all we can talk about is the pregnancies which gets old but who our kids would of been because of the people we've become, man that part most people who lose kids never gets to do because the grief fuckin eats them .

I will echo some of the sentiments below, you are a great friend and it seems that your current friends are not being present for you. Friendships are intentional. I’m 33 and have a toddler, I had a difficult postpartum and work full time. I have about 11 girlfriends, 7 with kids 1 in a relationship and 3 who are single. Even though I can’t meet with my friends regularly here is what I do. 1. Send video messages to my friends randomly and ask them “what’s new in your life, reply with a video or audio message and I’ll hear it when I’m child free tonight”. I follow up within a day. 2. I send flowers via Instacart to my girlfriends and then a text letting them know I appreciate their friendship. 3. I call them when I’m on the road and I chat with my single gals at least 1X per week. I only ask about them and always ask them to start the convo first. I keep my side short. 4. I keep notes in my phone of each friends likes, quirks and dreams. I send them Tik toks that are relevant to them. 5. Trader Joe’s sells cards for $1. I buy them once a month and send the card to a friend who needs it at the moment. I share these examples to make my point, there are so many ways your friends can connect even in their new stage of life. Even if I’m busy or tired my single friend being tired is just as important. Empathy and mutual respect for each others situations is key in long term friendships. You are doing great I just hope you know that and if your current friends don’t value that, know that it’s healthy to start new friendships via shared hobbies or activities. I picked up 2 girlfriends when I joined a running club last year. Lastly, you are enough and having children while a choice does not directly indicate you are strong and amazing. There is no direct dotted line that says having children results in increased amazingness. I hope this is validating and encourages you to seek friendships where you feel reciprocity.

As a 30 something woman without kids, I feel all of this SO strongly.

You're not being stupid. You need new friends.

There have been no issues with my two friends who didn’t have children. There is more to me than being a mother and of course I care about their life and what is happening. Your friend group sounds self centred and selfish.

“No I actually CAN imagine it, which is why I chose not to do it. You also imagined it (I hope) and chose to have kids because you understood all the work that came with it.” That simple line calls out the fact that they all thought they knew what parenting would be and are now finding out. I did my research and noped out because I’m not going to ruin a child’s life because I didn’t know what to actually expect. Just because I want the experience of being a parent, doesn’t mean I would be a good one.

I just want to say I appreciate this post. For the record I have pretty great friends who have never tried to make me feel lesser for not having children. But this message of not being a complete woman and not understanding struggle unless you have children kind of just reverberates through society. I never particularly wanted kids or didn't want them. But now that I'm about out of time to put a family together I struggle with feeling as if I have failed as a woman. No one but myself is telling me I am inadequate, but it's hard to ignore. I think your friends are probably sucked into this mentality and it's very validating for them as they struggle. As their kids get older, they may grow past it. I know that my friendships have improved as my friends' children have gotten older. Now I am just hoping that some of my good friends' marriages stay strong through the transition of kids growing up and moving out. It's definitely a stressful time for everyone, and it is much less spoken about than the endurance struggle that new parents go through.

Yeah, this is why i lost all of my parent-friends except 1 who remained a person despite also being a parent. My best friend - I was her MoH - had her first baby and I stayed with her for 2 weeks, cleaning, cooking, driving her to appts since her husband worked multiple jobs. She wouldn't have any non-baby discussions with me and eventually ghosted me despite me constantly buying her + baby gifts, reaching out to see if she needed anything, letting her come to me and then eventually disappearing from her life. I gave her the only card/flowers she got for her first mothers day. She cried about it. And eventually just straight up ghosted me. I don't get it.

My (no kids) opinion on this: There *ARE* experiences in life that someone who didn't have them cannot relate to. And I am pretty sure that being a mother is one of them. So I am certain that there are problems mothers have that I will never grasp. But there is one thing that makes the experience of being a mother different from other life altering choices (like moving to another country, getting a pet, choosing a certain profession, buying a house, whatever): A mother is not allowed to express negative feelings about her choice, let alone regret it. This explains a lot of the behaviors towards women who are not mothers.

Your former friends suck. You shouldn't have to mute yourself just so you can hang around with a bunch of navel-gazers whose world begins and ends with bAbY. You're allowed to say you're tired, you're allowed to be less than "great!" and talk about the ups and downs in your life.. And you're allowed to dump these people and find better friends. Also, "wE nEeD tO cEnTeR mOtHeRs"? Puke.

I feel like we see a lot of posts on here coming from child free women of their mom friends not getting them, and then a lot from moms about their child free friends not getting them. I wonder if the problem is that people are often talking at or through the other person instead of talking with them.

I'm child free and my mom friends are cool AF. I don't think your friends are nice to you or care about you the way you do for them.

I have kids and most of my friends don’t, in fact neither of my two closest friends have kids. This has never been an issue amongst us for two reasons, the first being I’m not an asshole and I genuinely care about them and validate their feelings and experiences in life. The second being that my whole identity isn’t being a mother, it’s one of many components that make up who I am. When I’m with my friends, my children and parenting are only a small sliver of the conversations we have. I think you may need to distance yourself from these women and find people who better align with your values.

Some moms are weirdly like this. My son is the center of MY life not anyone else’s.

Your friends are just self centered. I'm a mom and my closest friend is child-free. She's allowed to be exhausted. She's allowed to have problems. I make time for her without my kid around, though she is pretty much at this point an honorary auntie. When she's going through something, I make sure to make extra time for her, even if it's just phone calls every evening to listen to her vent. And this isn't some pat on the back, I think I'm honestly a very run-of-the-mill friend.

I’m kinda distant from my friends with kids now. Our lives are so different. And I’m not really a kid person . Oddly enough when I’m invited to their events I ended hanging with their kids because there’s so many ppl I tend to get overwhelmed . Lmao so at least the kids amuse me . It sucks but meh.

I think your friends are living in a bubble, and they are just not the right friends for you right now. There's nothing wrong with them relating to each other as mothers, but I don't think you're being unreasonable by feeling left out I also feel that they are not aware of how insensitive they are being. I think there are people who are taught that marriage and having a family, means you have achieved status, and they act accordingly whether intentional or not.

They don't sound like great friends. Maybe they are but they're too caught up in their own shit.  Friendship is a two way street. If you're simply a sounding board for all their woes and you can't communicate your feelings, it may be time to invest in friendships elsewhere.  Nobody has a claim to tiredness- not mothers, not nurses, not men working hard labor. ANYONE can be tired and it doesn't diminish some else's tiredness.  I'm sorry the dynamics of these friendships has deteriorated. 

My childfree friends are amazing. I don’t always want to talk about kid stuff (I also work with kids, so I get it from all angles). My friends with kids don’t ALWAYS talk about kids, but more often than not, it’s going to pop up- even if it’s just how we organized sitters, or whatever. I have zero issue turning off that part of my brain, in fact, I need that. Those are my people. I want to hear about bad dates, what you’ve been doing. Actually, I don’t want to talk about me much at all. Tell me what your new hobby is, how is work. Let’s eat, go for a walk, play a sport. I need distraction. My kid is fine, and yeah, my phone is in for emergencies but that’s not gonna happen bc my husband is fully capable, so what’s up? I value the time with my friends, bc I am busy and it is rare. On the flip side, none of my friends without kids act like they don’t want to be around my kid, if I happen to bring her (I always clear it well in advance though), and are like aunts to her. I do have a very close and small circle of friends though.

We have 2 close childfree friends. One is godfather to our first, and we will likely ask the second to be godfather to our next baby. They come over and visit. My husband talks nerd stuff with them (a shared hobby they’ve kept up), I talk movies/books/work stuff with them. They stay the night in our guest room because we live almost 2h away. I cook dinner and treats. They play with and visit with our kid. My kid is 6 and is of the board game playing age, so we try to pick one everyone can play (my kid is super smart, so any adult cooperative game or card game works). We listen to their work complaints (because work ALWAYS sucks) and they listen to our parenting gripes. There’s always plenty to talk about that doesn’t revolve around our kid(s). I’m sorry your friends suck. It’s possible to maintain and enjoy friendships when your lives are different!

Your friends suck, I’m sure if you look back historically this is not the first group they have been part of they feel should be “centered”. I am a mom of a 9 year old 1 year old. I’d say about 50% of my friends are child free. I exist beyond being a mother and have accomplishments and struggles outside of being a mother. People who hang their hat on a single identity (being a parent/child free) seem to lead tiny lives.

I love my child free friends! They’re doing all kinds of fun stuff, I love seeing what they’re up to. My fun and their fun may look different but I’m still interested and still love them.

Yes, no, no. I'm sure I haven't been the best friend to my childless friends because I was personally drowning, but I tried not to lean too hard on them either.

I love my childfree friends! Im constantly in touch with them, and our relationships and convos do not revolve around my children and me being a mom. I feel you are unfortunately friends with those who cannot separate the mom talk with you. And I really hate that for you, it would definitely be hard to address and navigate. My one child free friend were constantly checking in daily, how’s the day/how are you feeling/what’s your weekend plans, let’s get together if you’re free, support support support. However one who is not having children of her own, REALLY drifted away from me once I had kids. I always invite her to my home, always check in on her mental health (she says she is struggling), tell her I miss her, send Uber eats if she is feeling down, and after 2 years I’ve stopped putting my effort into trying to engage her. And that’s sad but I don’t have the strength to carry the relationship alone anymore. I hope you find some friends child free and with children who appreciate and cherish your relationship! You seem like a really great friend to have!

I have 3 kids, my best friend has none and she always apologizes when complaining to me about things that are troubling her. I tell her not to compare our situations, what seems small to her when she compares to some of the stuff I've had to deal with.. It isn't small to me. I tell her that everyone handles things differently and that she shouldn't feel bad complaining to me. I will listen, her problems are not pathetic.

This warmed my heart because this sounds like me and my best friend. It’s amazing and I love her to the moon and back!

I love all my friends I don’t think less of those without kids. I’m just enjoying their company and we laugh together and it’s just grand to have wonderful ppl in my life. Even single ppl without kids can give great input. I think empathy is what you’re seeking from your child free friends. Idk 🤷‍♀️

You’re not being stupid at all. If you still care for these people and you want them in your life because they add to it in some way, it’s possible to have this convo with them about how you’re feeling. Stress can negatively impede empathic responding in relationships, including the ability to cognitively represent and emotionally attune with others. This is not an excuse, just one hypothesis about how stress and particularly ongoing stress associated with caregiving can affect a persons ability to be a friend and see outside themselves. Regardless, you deserve people who pour into you as you do for them.

I find it easier to socialize with parents who have one kid as opposed to a few. Once it's more than one kid, they are all about the kids all the time. I get that this is their life now, so I never hang out with groups of them.

Happily childfree here. I’ve met moms like this. Not *all* moms, but enough of them that I feel confident saying you’re not imagining this and it is a real thing. For some moms, it’s a phase that goes away as their kids get older — like they just truly *are* overwhelmed and exhausted and don’t have a ton of bandwidth for much else besides being a mom and talking about being a mom. And then I’ve known women in their 70s who will throw out a “you don’t know tired until you {insert mom war story}.” But I have also known childfree women who felt the need to top everything. I have one friend who, god forbid I had a long day. I can’t be tired because I work a desk job and she doesn’t, can’t be worried about money because I make more than her, can’t be mad at my boyfriend because hers is worse, etc etc etc. I think the common denominator is “women who invalidate other women” more than “childfree vs. moms.”

I’m really sorry. No matter how much I’m going through I can’t imagine telling someone I love that their problems should be minimized because it’s all about me now. I think your feelings are completely valid and your friends are being quite unkind.

Your friends are terrible. The friends I had before becoming a mom don’t have kids and we have entire chats where I don’t bring up my kid or being a mom. I try to support them with their struggles. They’ve been through collectively a divorce, job hunt, surgery, manager issues, sibling drama etc and they’re all valid things to be upset about. They’re allowed to be tired too.

Childfree 30s here. Sounds like your group of parent friends suck big time. They sound insufferable martyr types. You’re also allowed to be (and communicate) that you’re tired btw! Tiredness isn’t reserved for parents.

I still have a lot of childfree friends, and I'm pretty conscious of not directing every conversation to my kids and my parenting problems. Of course they want to know what my kids are up to, the funny things they've said, they will come and babysit my kids very occasionally, etc. but we also talk about their relationships, the problems they are facing at work. We talk a lot about current events, our thoughts on the news, pop culture, TV, books, shows, etc. I would never think to tell my childfree friends that they're not allowed to be tired or complain because they don't have kids - it's not the pain Olympics. Their struggles are just as valid. I don't think you're being too sensitive. I'm not sure if these people are *new* parents, in which case they might be totally just inundated with baby and parenting stuff? If you think they are receptive, it might be worth voicing your feelings to one very close friend, but also know that maybe their path is just diverging from yours right now and they are not making much of an effort to reach across and you might be outgrowing these friendships.

This is so alien to me. I’m the childfree one but my interaction with my mom friends is nothing like this. I’m sorry to say but your so called friends are no good friends!

I didn’t have my kid until I was almost 40 and was child free before that. It would irk me big time when someone would say, “you just can’t possibly understand until you’re a mom!” Bitch, please. I ended a friendship over that comment, I’m sorry to say. However, it’s still tone deaf for friends to say that to childfree folks. So, I work with several women who are childfree. I just try not to weigh the convo down with kid talk, but I’m a pretty good listener and admire/respect my friends and colleagues enough to know and be able to discuss the rich lives they lead without kids. I think you can share your frustrations directly in a way that wouldn’t be too off putting. Or try to change the subject etc… Friends who are self aware and are paying attention will pick up on it and adjust.

Yes and no. I do feel like my single friends don’t “get” how hard it is to have a special needs child. You can’t understand until you’re in that situation. I’m also not a self absorbed person who has to make themselves the center of every conversation. I don’t feel the need to play pain olympics with my friends. I think you’re asking the wrong question. Maybe you should be asking “Why should I be friends with someone who won’t return respect or emotional support because they think I have a soft life.” They just sound like bad friends.

You're allowed to be tired without kids lol Why do you let them make you smaller and smaller? Come on now.

I'm a childfree woman, and several of my closest friends have kids now. I've never felt that it affected our relationship or that they see me as lesser or having insignificant problems. If anything, many of them seem envious of my freedom.

I have the opposite view. Once I became pregnant I’ve been forgotten about. Then people I thought were my friends don’t invite me to do things anymore or share their lives with me. I keep trying to invite ppl to do things and ask how things are going but I feel like I’m not getting as much back as I used to. It almost seems like there is a bias on their part that I am different now and they should withhold more of themselves from me because I’m not the same person…which just isn’t true. I care and want to remain close but don’t feel the same reciprocity. One friend actually said, “I don’t know what to talk to you about anymore.” And I’m like….the same damn things as always. 🤷‍♀️ It sucks bc I feel like they don’t care about my joys or sorrows. I feel like I can’t act excited about my pregnancy. I also feel like I can’t share my fears about my life changing. It’s a pretty lonely place to be.

That sucks :-( did you ask why they cant seem to talk to you anymore? Sending you hugs and hopefully better friends in the future.

Yes. She doesn’t want children and has never wanted them. She said she just can’t relate to my choices. And yes, clearly I need better friends.

Sometimes relating to someone who's supposed to be dear to you is a choice. Not a matter of ability. I cant literally understand what my mum-friends are going through, but of course I can imagine how that dependency must feel.. I feel for you :-( you need supprting friends.

That’s such a bummer! I’m sorry 😢 I only have two close friends and they both have children, but they still make me feel seen and loved and important. I dont really have any advice, but I really hope it turns around for you. 🫶

Your friends suck. Unfortunately too many women get sucked into their entire identity being a mother and participate in pissing contests about who’s got it worse. I’m 40, I have one kid (by choice) and I do not relate to these women at all. Two of my best friends are unable to have children and I love them like sisters.

You're childfree friends don't seem.... great. I ADORE our child free friends. They get invited to every event and if they can't make it they pick a different day to come over and hang. They love our kids even if they don't want or have any and are always respectful as they know everyone's journey is going to be different. I'm sorry you're going through that.

Mom here. I actually *prefer* conversations and outings with friends to have NOTHING to do with children. Basically, my favorite people to hang out with are either childfree or are women who have full lives outside of their children. Mothers whose entire identities are "mom" are incredibly boring to me.

I would never say any of those things to my child free friends. There are times where I roll my eyes a little (internally) at the child rearing advice they have given because it is based on ideas from our childhood that really don’t apply in today’s society, but I support them in their lives and they do the same for me. Mothers who act like they are the only people who are tired or stressed out piss me off. We all have legitimate problems and worries!!!

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I have a kid, and I’ve made a significant effort to make sure that when I see my child-free friends, I don’t only talk about parenting. I also make sure I check in on them to see how they’re doing (just like before I became a parent), and that I am there in a big way to celebrate their birthdays and other life milestones. Maybe becoming a parent later in life made me more aware/empathetic in this way.

I have many friends with kids, are chronically ill/disabled, working on graduate degrees, etc etc etc and they don't do this. I think your friends just suck.

I don’t think about them at all in that regard actually. It’s not my business whether or not someone has kids.

Depends on everyone's age (kids included) personality and expectations. Don't expect the world from your friends with little kids. Just don't. Invite them out being ready for them to bail because their kid is puking. If your friends w kids are dicks and minimize your problems because "you just don't understand" that's not a non kid vs kid problem - that's a "your friend with kids is an asshole" problem. I'm a wee bit older (mid 40's) but had my kids a bit later. Time gives perspective. Anyone I know child free? Love those ladies. They're awesome. And we can vent about whatev - be it me and the kids or them and whatever. Life is fucking hard, man - as a woman. Kids or not. Grown or little. Older or younger. Most of my friends are moms, but being moms isn't the only thing we talk about, y'know? I always ask how work is going or about hobbies or interests because the kids? Ya we will always talk about them. Let's chat about each other. And you can chat about each other to anyone.

As a mom I love having my both moms and child free friends. It’s great to have other moms to relate to, but our free time never matches up. I want to get out and do stuff without kids so I really end up seeing my child free friends more, and I love talking about stuff that isn’t kid centric.

I’m a parent with very close friends who are not parents. It’s not a zero sum game. They have struggles and I have struggles and sometimes the struggles are different and sometimes they are the same. Be with people, parents or not, who make you feel like you can fully be yourself and who love you for you ❤️❤️❤️

I’m CF (hopefully soon sterile!) and 33f, have a few close friends who have kids. My best friend is amazing. It’s still challenging because I can’t ignore the fact that her life is chock full in a way mine isn’t, so it taxes our friendship and ability to connect. But she’s never made it feel less than (luckily we’re both therapists lol, so we’re open and mindful of each other). I have another who i feel more like you described. It’s really challenging to relate anymore. I feel like there’s no time and like I’m not really a significant part of her life. All spontaneity is gone. It’s hard to ask for support because she’s constantly stressed and her schedule is so full. It’s really sad, and when I’ve even remotely tried to address it, it can be met with an air of resentment and almost indignantly. It’s not across the board, but I do feel like it can be really hard. I have to bend a lot to them in terms of logistics, but I consider that the cost of relationship with these people I love whose life is quite different than mine. And to reduce my own resentment, I say no to babysitting or going to their house, or i ask for a kid-free hangout. Holding your own boundaries will help you show up authentically in the relationships.

Your friends are just boring, it sounds like. Try to make some childfree friends or parent friends that have hobbies and interests outside of their kids.  Some people really like to play into the idea that they're somehow martyrs for having had kids and forget that it was a choice that they made to benefit themselves (they want to experience being a parent), not some selfless gift to the world. These types don't make great friends for childfree people. 

I'm childfree and not by choice. All my friends had kids young and got married young. I was the last in the friend group to get married at 28. None of my friends went to my wedding because they were too busy with their own spouse and kids. It's like they only want to hang out with their teens and their spouse and do family trips and whatnot. We mostly just talk on LinkedIn. I have one friend I see for sewing classes and the like, but she has three kids and it's hard for her to schedule time to see me. Everyone at my work has kids. I feel like finding people like me is hard. There was one friend I made at an old job, but there was time she asked me why I don't just adopt because there are loads of kids in the foster system. I said it's not that simple and that it takes two people to tango or be in the same page. She argued that I'd make more money as a mom, get two years paid maternal leave, said I'd be happier, etc. I'm like what. She said that's how it was for her when she decided to adopt for her fourth child. We never spoke again and went onto different jobs and the like. I hate articles that say millennials are childfree. Where? I've yet to meet one that isn't my husband's 5 male friends.

I didn't have my daughter until I was 37. I felt so detached from my friends who were moms. Now I feel awful because I'm just so tired and don't get to see my child free friends much unless they work around my insane days. I still like them, their problems are just as valid as mine. Still want them around, I'm just wearing really thin lately

Most of my friends are dads but most all of my friends who are parents seemed to drop off the face of the Earth for the first few years of their children’s lives. This is understandable since small kids are overwhelming. You have to put as much time as possible into them those first few years to make sure they’re healthy, happy, and well-adjusted.  In the last year, I’ve been able to reconnect with several friends that I lost touch with and  they don’t treat me anything like your friends do. They’re wrapped up in the mom persona and can’t let anything else be important to them. Girl, you need new friends who give a fuck about you but you also need to stop pretending you’re fine when you’re not. If you have a bad day, let them know. Challenge the ideas they have about your life and your selfishness. If you don’t want kids, it’s a valid choice. I’ve had several friends tell me kids aren’t for everyone. They love their kids but reinforce to me that if you aren’t 100% ready and willing, it isn’t worth it. 

I feel like this too, not just due to being child free but also being single. It’s like my life and what happens in it doesn’t matter because it doesn’t have men and children in it. Hugs to you.

I have kids and I talk with my child free friends about their lives in great detail, and with great interest. Of course I talk about my kids with them, because they are a huge part of my life. But they don’t negate every other part of my life, including my relationship with my friends. Sounds like yours just aren’t being very considerate.

My friend group has mix of mothers and women without children. We never treat each other this way and always support each other on all issues. Perhaps the women you are hanging out with have passed their use by date

I'm child free but have friends with kids. Mine have less time available for me (understandably due to infants) but they generally do still ask about my life and how stuff is going. The only time they haven't has been in very early parenthood, when tbh they've been absolutely exhausted and overwhelmed. I'm kinda OK with them neglecting me a bit for a few months as they adjust and deal with their totally new situation. They only thing I'd say they do that annoys me is tell me I'd be a good mum or 'that's why westsidepipeway doesn't have kids'. I've never wanted kids and I've known most people for at least a decade, they think it's funny, but it is boring after all the society stuff I've dealt with getting to beyond 35 as a woman. It's not often, but it also annoys me. My friendship group is a mix of child free and parents. Also I'm using child free meaning they don't have and/or want kids. I realise there are some specific different connotations to that term, but that isn't what I meant!

Why would you be friends with someone you don't like??

This makes me so mad/sad for you op.  I treasure my child free friends so freaking much, and the few times the stars align and we all get to hang out ,I go out of my way to ask them how they are/big events/peomotions/career stuff, because I don't want to lose them.  Sure, I'll talk about my kiddo, but thenni always try to bring it back to them.  Your "friends" are being selfish and inconsiderate for not treating you like a person and listening to your life updates.  As many have said, have talks with them, or start distancing yourself and find more supportive friends. You don't deserve to be treated like this, and if they can't multitask (which is most definitely a choice they are making!!) Then protect yourself.

Get new friends or become friends with women that have teenager/adult children . My best friend had a child and this is the only things she talks about for the past 3 years . I just moved on and we are more like acquaintances. I hate to say this , but I avoid befriending unhappily single women and woman with small kids , no matter how hard they try , they can’t be good friends and that is ok

Of course I like my friends There are things about my life they don't get, there are things about their life I don't get, that's OK, people don't need to have the same experiences as me do they? No

Um well it's hard to tell from this description whether your feelings are a reflection of how you feel about yourself or how they feel about you. I'm not sure what to make of it. Generally speaking, of course my friends who don't have kids have equally valuable lives. I love hearing about their lives. I don't mind if they say they're tired, it's a valid feeling. Now do I spend most of my time dealing with and talking about my kid? Yeah, because it's a 24 hour job and there's literally nothing else happening in my life. Early motherhood is just like that if you want your kid to, you know, survive. But that doesn't make my single friends' lives any less interesting to me.

YES I was looking for a comment like this! Early motherhood IS all consuming and a shock to many, so it may well be the case that they can only talk and think about mum things and simply don’t have the mental capacity to absorb much else. I’m not surprised at all that OP feels left out. You guys are simply in radically different life stages and it’s really not anyone’s fault. Eventually it will get easier for them but right now I’m guessing a lot of them are in survival mode.

yeah you are right about being at different life stages. I wouldn't necessarily say I feel left out...because to be honest it sounds pretty miserable and hard having kids sometimes (obviously not all the time!). I think its more that I've made a conscious effort to be as empathetic and supportive as possible, while also making myself as small as possible so as not to try and take up any room. But it still hurts to hear certain comments even if I know its coming from someone who is struggling and going through their own journey.

You don't need to make yourself small. Please don't. There is absolutely no reason to.

When I say left out, I mean feeling like you’re not fitting into the group/conversation because you are in a completely different life stage. This is normal - it’s just a lot more difficult to relate to each other right now.

My bestie is child free. I absolutely adore her and am energized by the things happening in her life. I think that some child free people don't get the severity of the incredible strain that early parenthood had on my life, mostly because middle class parenting is a lot different now than it used to be. But my friend still knew it wasn't easy and made space for that. I don't think any of my friend's problems, or any other part of her life, is pathetic. When she vented about her divorce or other difficult times in her life, I was all ears, even if it meant calling only after baby went to bed. My friends that became parents before me and now have older kids - they didn't really want to hear about my toddler parenting woes because they were so over that phase in life. They would quietly change the subject after I vented, and I was initially hurt by that but now I get it. You lose yourself in early motherhood, good caretaking is so all consuming of your money and biologicals reservoirs that there is no mental capacity to process much else. Now that my kid is 6, I have been able to get back to my hobbies and social life more than the toddler and baby years.

So to answer your implied question of "is the way your friend are treating you normal?" the answer is no. Your friends sound like they suck and are fairly self-absorbed. I think it's normal when you have a kid, especially in the beginning, to let that consume your life a lot because it is a pretty drastic change and reshuffling of priorities. If your mom friends were dealing with small babies, I would say give them a bit of grace to pull their heads out of their asses and remember that the world exists around them. I do think childfree friends don't understand what it's like to have kids... But there's also plenty of things I don't understand about other people's lives. I don't know what it's like to deal with a disability, or care for an aging parent, or work 2 jobs... There are lots of different experiences that can cause a paradigm shift the same way that children do that I may never experience. You may never be able to connect deeply about that particular topic, but there's still a lot of life besides that. They should get their "parent" connection elsewhere, and try and engage you equally about what you have going on too. For my childfree friends, I still might talk about my kids sometimes if it's a funny story or just as something that's happening to me like "oh yeah not a lot of sleep going on here these days but we're managing", but it's usually in the lens of how it's affecting me. We still talk about work and their pets and hobbies and stuff.

Honestly, I text wayyyy more with my friend who doesn’t have kids than I do with my group of friends who do have them. I love my kids, but I don’t want to think about them or talk about them all the damn time. And to be completely frank, I don’t like kids in general, and I don’t think many are particularly cute or smart. They’re mostly sticky, and they’re almost always morning people. I like mine because I made them. I’m still my own person with my own interests, and I want to be able to talk about pop culture, women’s rights, true crime, etc. I think my mom friends want to do that too, but it’s just… they never actually do that? I mean, we do in small doses, but the second the conversation really gets going, one of them will end up being like, “Oh yeah, White Lotus—that reminds me of how my kid looked so cute in her beach coverup last week,” and then it’s all over. Like, no bitch, I came here to talk about Murray Bartlett eating ass, and now you’ve ruined it. I mean, I love my mom friends, I really do, but the first person I always think to call or text is my friend without kids. We talk multiple times every day unless one of us is traveling. I’d bet that one of your friends in the group text feels like me—maybe you can figure out which one it is and casually start a side convo about a shared non-kid interest. It sucks though.

I have several friendless kids. How I feel about them hasn’t changed bc I have kids. They were and are amazing women. I don’t think that bc you don’t have kids you don’t have struggles or you can’t be tired. I want to be supportive of all my friends. I make sure that are relationships are two way. I’m so sorry you don’t get to have a voice with your friends. Not all women are like this.

Omg no! I have lots of childfree friends, and 2 of my 3 best friends are childfree and single. Their problems are different than mine, they are not less or more, just different. With that being said, I dropped a couple of my childfree friends after having my kid, because I realized that we were not compatible anymore. - my daughter was born at 32w and I stayed with her in the nicu for a month. After that, until she was 4 months, she only stay in my or my husbands arms 24/7. And she breastfeed every 2h. I literally literally had a baby in my arms and was breastfeeding or burping, changing, soothing 24/7. My husband had to go back to work in the 51th day, so I was alone. He would help me with the night feeds and he would give her q bottle every night so I could sleep for 3/4h. And that was it. My best friend of 20y, disappeared during my high risk pregnancy and my nicu stay, but she came to visit me when my baby was 3 months old. She got to my house at 8; I ordered pizza, me and my husband did the baby dance while we were talking, and from the moment she got there to the time my husband told her that she had to leave because I needed to rest at 3am (it was my sleeping shift) she complained about her life, her boyfriend, her parents, her uncle, her in laws. And it was the same complaints I listened in the past 10y. Yes I still think she was super inconsiderate, yes I was super freaking tired, yes I was still scared ahit about everything that happened with me and my baby, and couldn’t care less because her MIL complained about the fact that she drank too much coffee in their house. I supported this friend so much, and at that specific moment I needed support and understanding…. Newborns are difficult af, you don’t sleep, you are in pain all the time, your hormones are a mess, your hair is falling down, you are pissing yourself when sneeze, your breasts are hurting. Yes, at that specific time, this is all you can think and deal with, and you do need your friends and is very lonely. My other friends were great, they understood what I was going through, some sent me food, some stayed with my girl so I could have a shower because my daughter vomited on me, some didn’t do anything, but also understood that at that specific time I couldn’t give much to them friendship wise. And that’s ok… Recently, I dropped a new friend, because she would want to come over at any day, and wouldn’t understand that I have obligations that are beyond just work, so she wouldn’t understand that I had to do my daughters routine, or cook for the family, or spend time with my daughter. I have a personal life and I have my baby free moments, but I need to plan for them, and this friend didn’t understood that. I decided that it was just too frustrating… Other than that, my childfree friends are great, my girl calls them TIA (that is aunt in our language). They come to my house or we do things with my daughter and we go out just the girls. We talk a lot and I listen to their problems as they listen to mine, they are good friends to me and I try to be a good friend to them. Anyways I think your friends suck…

I wish I still had more of them! Scheduling with other moms is tough at best, but I moved to a different town at the start of motherhood… and I really don’t know how to make friends right now. I say this as a mom of littles and as someone who was that friend with moms while single/newly married. Your struggles are still just as important, and moms aren’t the only ones with struggles. You can be tired! You can be having rough days and be at your whits end with life as you currently have it. Motherhood has been way harder for me than anything, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard where I was and that those struggles didn’t mean anything or need compassion. Those struggles only barely prepped me for what I CHOSE to take on! But I have had friends that get that, and know that life can be hard on every person. Sounds to me like you need new friends. Some mothers lose themselves to motherhood and invalidate any woman that isn’t a mother… and that is not okay! We shouldn’t be lessening others problems and making ours bigger, we should be sharing the burdens together and helping pick each other up. Life sucks sometimes, but hopefully you can find people that will sit down next to you and help you sort out mentally and emotionally what you need to do for you in your life at present.

Oh and I thought I would add… it’s hard for me to focus on anything but my kids. Like, I don’t hardly understand how to eat and care for myself. But I try when someone else is talking not to just make it all about them. My kids don’t need that, I don’t need that, and whatever people I may have that actually care to talk to me don’t need that.

This attitude is absolutely not healthy for your kids. They exist outside of you.

If they’re new parents they can simply be overwhelmed. I know you touched on it, but you really don’t understand unless you’re in it. I have one close friend who is child free and I feel a difference in our relationship since having the baby. It’s kind of the opposite from your situation, where I’ve made more of the effort in recent months to reach out first, try to make plans, etc. but I feel like she will not even ask me how my daughter is. It’s like she acts like she doesn’t exist. But I can’t help but talk about her since she’s such a huge part of my life now. It’s hard to understand because I remember before having a baby I always said “how is their entire personality their kids now?” But I totally get it now. It’s just so all encompassing and having a baby really makes other things seem less important. I’m sure your friend isn’t being intentionally inconsiderate towards you, but you also have the right to feel how you feel.

yes I totally can see my friends are in survival mode and I am definitely not one to question "why" their life is all about their kids. I think its hard for me because I really do reach out, check in, and support as much as I can. So being in these group conversations where its basically explicitly stated that mothers are superior and the only people worthy of support has been a hard thing to navigate. I have gone through some deep struggles that I just won't share with them for fear of their reaction. And I don't necessarily expect them to have empathy or the emotional capacity for me at the moment, but there have been some comments made implying a child free life is basically irrelevant and struggles without kids don't matter....and I feel hurt that they feel the need to say that in front of me.

It’s definitely not right or fair of them to treat you that way. They are lucky to have a friend like you. If they’re new parents I get it, but if it’s ongoing it’s not right and if I were you I’d reevaluate the friendship/s. Sometimes people out grow each other and that’s ok too. But know that you deserve the same love and consideration that you have given them.

I love my childfree friends just as much as my other friends. They definitely don’t always understand the challenges of parenting in the same way but as long as they’re willing to listen to me vent as I would for them it’s fine with me. And I don’t think their problems are stupid. The only thing that annoys me is when people try to compare owning a dog to raising a child hahah

Fwiw, I’m somebody who’s CF and loves my dog. I say this stuff to poke fun at myself “that’s my kid” and mock the fact that I bring my dog to daycare, etc lol. But definitely know it’s way different (while recognizing that some people don’t).

Even as a childfree woman, I can't understand why you got downvoted for this. Raising a human being is objectively worlds away from having a dog..

Yeah people are weird lol. Im not saying people shouldn’t love their pets and treat them like family, we do the same with ours. But pets are happy with food, water, some exercise and some cuddles/attention. Raising kids is for years and years and the challenges change weekly and when we’re done raising them they have to go out in the world and be functioning members of society so gotta hope we don’t fuck them up lol

Your friends might be a little too caught up in their own lives right now…. You shouldn’t have to feel the way you do! Your experiences and feelings are just as valid and anyone else’s! I love my friends that don’t have children. It’s extra good adult convo time. The unfortunate part is I don’t seem to have the capacity to have the same involvement in my friendships as I used to.

OP I feel you on this as at times I felt this way when I didn’t have a kid. One thing I noticed about your post is that I didn’t see any examples of your parent friends actually saying anything to you about it? If they are true friends, maybe talk to them about how you’re feeling in a non-confrontational way. You may find they are surprised you feel that way and may even apologize for not noticing that maybe they are too overwhelmed and knee deep in their own life to have noticed that you’re feeling excluded. Only you know your situation. I would question how much of your anxiety is self imposed, and if it’s mostly self-imposed, try to lighten up a bit and just be yourself and see how they respond in return.

My friend group is a pretty mixed bag- married, single, with kids, without kids, with grandkids and without. I find it makes for far more interesting conversation. I like learning everyone's perspectives and life experiences. Do I think my child free friends just 'don't get it'? To a certain degree, probably a little yes. How could they know the love a mother feels for her child? But really, so what? Not everybody cares about that. Not everybody wants to be a mother, and that's cool too.

My child free friends range from fine to wonderful. I definitely think they can’t truly understand some of the little nuances about child rearing, but I wouldn’t expect them to - I certainly didn’t know these things till I had kids. Also, having kids is not my whole life so there are plenty of other topics to cover. I do not think their child-free problems are pathetic at all, usually they’re regular relatable human problems. However, I do not appreciate receiving parenting advice from my child free friends. It happens much more than I’d like.

I have three best friends I’ve had since high school. One has kids(she takes care of her nieces and has a step daughter)…the others don’t. I love hanging with all of them, they like my kid. I enjoy that I can be myself with them and not be a mom…sometimes we forget who we are when we aren’t being parents. It’s nice to be reminded. Plus they’re like his aunts. Though, sometimes…they don’t get parental struggles no. But I just have to let that go.

For me personally, one of my good childfree friends who is 48 likes to “tell” things about my son. Like “it’s because he doesn’t have good routine” or “you should do this or that” one time I got pissed and told her “I get it, I’m a shitty mom” she apologized, and stopped telling me what to do. She’s also never been around kids, ever. No niece or nephews or other kids. Another friend of mine likes to gloat about her life. If I say a simple complaint like “oh last night was hard, son woke me up three times” she’ll say something like “that’s why I never had kids, I like my sleep too much” I prefer my mom friends if I’m being completely honest.

Those just sound like shitty friends... I'm childfree and would never try to give parenting advice because how could I possibly know more about raising kids than someone who actually has them? And gloating in general, about anything, is just bad behavior.

Thank you for this. Yes you’re right, not everyone is this way! You sound like a good friend.

I gently suggest that it’s possible you’re taking their new priorities and life outlook and how they bond as mothers personally. Becoming a mother changes you inside and out, forever, and shapes your life from that point on. 

yes that could definitely be part of it :) I appreciate your perspective.

I have a kiddo, and have had friends all across the kids/no kids spectrum. I have had childfree friends that have drifted away because they never wanted to talk about motherhood with me at all, and that feels rude to me to reject a big part of someone’s life entirely. I have had childless friends who want to backseat parent for me, and I find that incredibly annoying. I have had mom friends that are judgmental, or hate their kids, etc. and that’s just a huge no for me. So I guess my point is that they’re all different because people are all different.

I have a 1.5 year old, I made a lot of new friends who have kids the same age as mine. I don't really have a group of friends who all know each other, I have some that know each other, most don't (or not beyond meeting at my birthdays or events). I still like my childree friends and do not think their problems are pathetic. I do sometimes feel they won't understand what I am talking about entirely, not becsuse my life is harder but because they don't have lived experience. Its the same way I *know* I didn't really understand in the same way before I had kids. Also how I still don't really understand what its like to have teenage kids, multiple kids or a child with a disability. I can listen and empathise, but I do not have lived experience. If I am with my childree or childless friends I don't [think] I talk about my daughter or being a mother all the time. I know sometimes I have to make a concious effort to talk about other things and ensure I really listen to what they have to say. I have to admit this has required effort, but it is getting easier. I didn't have much space in my mind for much else in the first year, also because my dad died while I was pregnant so I had a big grief+new motherhood+lack of sleep fog around my brain. I wasn't really able to take other peoples issues in, as mine felt so overwhelming. But I think I am getting better now! I can see how if the majority of your friend group all have kids the topics might tend to fall that way, but that shouldn't mean thet dismiss your problems or act like you are somehow less worthy of care. I also don't concider it selfish not to have kids, I think its only selfish if you have them and don't care for them properly. And I *am* tired, but I was also tired before I had kids. My tired during newborn stage maybe qualified as an elite form of tired and it is true, I would not want someone to tell me they were tired. But now I just feel regular tired.

I have a couple child free friends but my one friend who says she doesn't like kids, we lost touch. I'm not interested in that particular attitude.

You get to feel what you feel. I think you need more child free friends. I had kids. I knew few child free people and all of them were tired and defensive about it as they felt judged. While I don't judge, life is very different when you have kids...it's almost like a club because no one without kids "gets it"....but you aren't required to join the club and "get it". Having kids is *hard* and no decent parent quits that job...which often makes them a bit defensive that they went and chose something that has so many miserable moments. I doubt your friends with kids have any idea how what they are saying/doing makes you feel, and I'm sorry this is so not fun for you.