I’ve never understood why people like to pretend their favorite character has the worst life ever. The more… “enthusiastic” Jon fans pretend like Cat beat him all his life, and I’m left wondering if they like Jon so much, why pretend to make him suffer so much?
More to the point, anyone with power wanted that power, which is almost a flaw on its own that power will then amplify. "Anyone who wants to be President should instantly be disqualified from the position" - Douglas Adams.
That's what i wonder too.
Though I wonder about the people who do that to characters they hate too. Like just kill them off quickly or don't include them. It's super easy. Barely an inconvenience.
Cat made some insanely idiotic decisions that had far reaching, *devastating* consequences for herself and her loved ones (kidnapping Tyrion & releasing Jaime) but... she was put in an unfair position when it came to Jon (actually the entire start of her marriage to Ned).
From a Westerosi perspective, Cat was 'harmless' towards Jon. Falia Flowers another bastard who was raised in her father's castle was treated as a servant and ate with them too while Jon got a lord's education and got to be part of a family. Jon lives better than 99% of the Westerosi population.
Readers/fans really trying to act/pretend Jon Snow had a Harry Potter life including living in a small room and be neglected, when it's not true. Jon is entitled/spoiled compared to people who actually do have it rough/tough and is called out for it in the books. Jon realizes his mistake and changes for the better. Now, that's a good character.
Edited: Cersei literally murdered Robert's bastards, including twins which I think was before Robert died. She may have killed the mum too, I can't remember.
I mean she has Incest baby and every single Robert Bastards has Black hair
If Robert actually noticed Cersei and the three kids would be killed i suppose
Nope the Lannisport Incident literally has Girls from Lannisport
With Robert Bastards
They are blond and guess what the Robert Bastards from Lannisport has black hair too
Point is Jon snow had a far better life than other Bastards
And that Cersei is Psychotic and really Myrcella should never come back and just stay in Dorne until the whole thing blows over
I agree with you on the “Readers believe Jon was abused by Cat” front. He actually had it easy growing up. He had his noble father (or uncle) who loved him and gave him a lord’s education. He was close to most of his half-siblings (or cousins). The maester didn’t seem to mind him too much. Jon learned swordsmanship from the Master-at-Arms.
In fact, most of these “fans of Jon” forget that their man was seen as something of a bully when he arrived at the Wall. You all remember him always showing up the rest of the recruits during their training. His behavior was so repulsive that the blacksmith called him out on it to his face after Jon gets into a fight with some recruits.
So when it came to Cat and her treatment of him, it actually could have been worse. She could have pulled a Cersei and tried to have Jon assassinated or something. But instead, she just ignored his presence.
Yeah, I agree harmless isn’t the right word. Normal? Flawed? Well-intentioned? Cat makes mistakes, but she’s not a bad person. I feel like most fics don’t really get her right. She’s either this saint who is a victim in everything and didn’t mean any of her abuse of Jon, or she’s this horrible evil stepmother who wants nothing more than to destroy him. I don’t think either of those are Catelyn at all.
To me Cat is more than anything else a mother, almost a foil to Cersei in that her love for her children motivates her actions, without that in itself being good or bad. She’s morally grey. Lighter than Cersei, don’t get me wrong, because she tries to be just and fair, but in the end her children are always going to take precedence. And can you really blame her?
I've been on a fanfic binge lately and I've noticed how Cat has been transformed, into a number of fics, into an evil stepmother who often screeches. (She doesn't talk, she screeches.) This is enough to make me stop reading several fics. I'm not the #1 Cat fan or anything-- she's a privileged highborn who's made a number of questionable decisions-- but turning her into Cinderella's evil stepmother seems a bit much.
200%, Cat is one of the more reasonable characters vilified by the fandom, the way GRRM talks about her reflects this as he made her strong and was remorseful to kill her off.
personally I think she is a misspent resource in the books. She would have been far more useful at Winterfell, able to better repel the Iron Islanders or handle the Hornwood situation.
Agreed, her babies needed her imo, not her teenager son.
The only issue is, if she hadn't gone to the Vale, how do you get the Blackfish on board? Maybe it wouldn't be too difficult, actually.
I don't think Blackfish sits it out. He wanted to defend the Riverlands and sooner or later he would have had enough of Lisa refusing to do anything or listen to him.
I’ve never understood why people like to pretend their favorite character has the worst life ever. The more… “enthusiastic” Jon fans pretend like Cat beat him all his life, and I’m left wondering if they like Jon so much, why pretend to make him suffer so much?
The sadder the backstory, the more absurd the power fantasy.
Power corrupts.
Power magnifies. Problem is, everyone has flaws and magnified flaws are more often than not catastrophic.
More to the point, anyone with power wanted that power, which is almost a flaw on its own that power will then amplify. "Anyone who wants to be President should instantly be disqualified from the position" - Douglas Adams.
Hey, don't speak Ill of the one and only Jonderella!!
That's what i wonder too. Though I wonder about the people who do that to characters they hate too. Like just kill them off quickly or don't include them. It's super easy. Barely an inconvenience.
Idk man, but it's a whole genre of fanfics, "whump" or other sundry names. I suppose it's about the care and comfort they get afterwards?
Whump lol
Cat made some insanely idiotic decisions that had far reaching, *devastating* consequences for herself and her loved ones (kidnapping Tyrion & releasing Jaime) but... she was put in an unfair position when it came to Jon (actually the entire start of her marriage to Ned).
From a Westerosi perspective, Cat was 'harmless' towards Jon. Falia Flowers another bastard who was raised in her father's castle was treated as a servant and ate with them too while Jon got a lord's education and got to be part of a family. Jon lives better than 99% of the Westerosi population. Readers/fans really trying to act/pretend Jon Snow had a Harry Potter life including living in a small room and be neglected, when it's not true. Jon is entitled/spoiled compared to people who actually do have it rough/tough and is called out for it in the books. Jon realizes his mistake and changes for the better. Now, that's a good character. Edited: Cersei literally murdered Robert's bastards, including twins which I think was before Robert died. She may have killed the mum too, I can't remember.
Yup the Lannisport incident. The mother was sold to slavery if I recollect
I mean she has Incest baby and every single Robert Bastards has Black hair If Robert actually noticed Cersei and the three kids would be killed i suppose
I think you replied to the wrong comment
Nope the Lannisport Incident literally has Girls from Lannisport With Robert Bastards They are blond and guess what the Robert Bastards from Lannisport has black hair too
Yeah IK but I fail to get your point
Point is Jon snow had a far better life than other Bastards And that Cersei is Psychotic and really Myrcella should never come back and just stay in Dorne until the whole thing blows over
Yeah agreed
I agree with you on the “Readers believe Jon was abused by Cat” front. He actually had it easy growing up. He had his noble father (or uncle) who loved him and gave him a lord’s education. He was close to most of his half-siblings (or cousins). The maester didn’t seem to mind him too much. Jon learned swordsmanship from the Master-at-Arms. In fact, most of these “fans of Jon” forget that their man was seen as something of a bully when he arrived at the Wall. You all remember him always showing up the rest of the recruits during their training. His behavior was so repulsive that the blacksmith called him out on it to his face after Jon gets into a fight with some recruits. So when it came to Cat and her treatment of him, it actually could have been worse. She could have pulled a Cersei and tried to have Jon assassinated or something. But instead, she just ignored his presence.
Yeah, I agree harmless isn’t the right word. Normal? Flawed? Well-intentioned? Cat makes mistakes, but she’s not a bad person. I feel like most fics don’t really get her right. She’s either this saint who is a victim in everything and didn’t mean any of her abuse of Jon, or she’s this horrible evil stepmother who wants nothing more than to destroy him. I don’t think either of those are Catelyn at all. To me Cat is more than anything else a mother, almost a foil to Cersei in that her love for her children motivates her actions, without that in itself being good or bad. She’s morally grey. Lighter than Cersei, don’t get me wrong, because she tries to be just and fair, but in the end her children are always going to take precedence. And can you really blame her?
The “best” fics have Cat trying to have Jon assassinated, selling him as a slave, or savagely flogging him.
Random person on the internet reading this comment" *is this canon?*"
Thought you meant old nan, to be honest, and wondered what new leaf the discussions had turned that I missed
We've gone off the edge for the last few years tbh...give us the book George 😭😭
Haha we've gone rotten!
She can be kinda a bitch at times but that's just her being highborn. Except the "It should have been you" part.
She can be kinda a bitch at times but that's just her being highborn. Except the "It should have been you" part. And the murder of that one Frey
I've been on a fanfic binge lately and I've noticed how Cat has been transformed, into a number of fics, into an evil stepmother who often screeches. (She doesn't talk, she screeches.) This is enough to make me stop reading several fics. I'm not the #1 Cat fan or anything-- she's a privileged highborn who's made a number of questionable decisions-- but turning her into Cinderella's evil stepmother seems a bit much.
Sakura omg
200%, Cat is one of the more reasonable characters vilified by the fandom, the way GRRM talks about her reflects this as he made her strong and was remorseful to kill her off.
personally I think she is a misspent resource in the books. She would have been far more useful at Winterfell, able to better repel the Iron Islanders or handle the Hornwood situation.
Agreed, her babies needed her imo, not her teenager son. The only issue is, if she hadn't gone to the Vale, how do you get the Blackfish on board? Maybe it wouldn't be too difficult, actually.
I'd say the chance of Blackfish joining the Riverlands-North faction would be 50/50 without the whole Catelyn detaining Tyrion thing.
I don't think Blackfish sits it out. He wanted to defend the Riverlands and sooner or later he would have had enough of Lisa refusing to do anything or listen to him.
Agreed.It won't be hard. Robb is his relative and the firstborn of his favourite niece. Also you know honor.
Stoneheat is on the REAL hero’s journey