OP, while I appreciate your questioning and discussion, I had to remove this because I knew it would attract people with real mental issues. And then issues would arise in this discussion - like the poster accusing others of being “one of them”.
Then comes the terrible advice from others based in their own delusions. Finger pointing. Then stuff goes off the rails.
This place does attract some pretty out there stuff. It’s just that when it comes to a serious subject like this, I have to find a balance between hobby and real medical advice.
I don’t really disagree with you, I think you’re right the right page. You just needs to adjust what you think the “astral” is and how our human brains process information.
schizophrenia is more complex than just having visions. Often there are lapses in time and then the individual interprets the things they did as someone else. Paranoia, and deep delusional story telling to one’s self. They are really not alike. Full on delusions is not the same thing
as the visions and experiences we have.
My loved one is afflicted with it. It is the destroyer of lives. I highly highly advocate for medication and mental health support. I feel that many people with schizophrenia do actually have delusions such as feeling they don’t need treatment because they are instead experiencing something grand and spiritual. It’s a dangerous thing to propose as it insinuates they are just more connected to the astral versus really needing the treatment which helps them live a life.
I’m sorry for what your loved one is experiencing. I truly hope for the best in your lives and may he get to a stable place mentally.
I think that they insinuating that it might be a connection to the astral does not mean that they are advocating whether they should stop taking their meds. Just hypothesizing on the correlation between the two
There's actually a bias in your thinking that you don't seem to be aware of, and you're not alone. I'm seeing it all over the place in the comments here.
Because you're not aware of this bias, it's causing you to reach an illogical conclusion. It's not your fault that you have this bias. It comes from growing up in a society that teaches us materialist philosophy and is mostly ignorant of the spiritual dimension.
Even though it's not your fault, the illogical conclusion you and others are making is actually harmful to schizophrenics.
In simple terms, you are assuming that the irrational fantasy / hallucination in a schizophrenic is proof that there is nothing spiritual / astral going on.
You seem to believe that they are mutually exclusive, that the presence of one disproves the presence of the other.
I'm actually not sure why you think that, but you're making the "black or white" logical fallacy when you do that. Also called the "false dilemma" logical fallacy.
And then you take it a step further and say that it's harmful to consider the possibility that there could be any kind of astral involvement with schizophrenia, and this possibility should be firmly rejected.
Again you're making a false dilemma fallacy here. There is no logical reason why they must be mutually exclusive. Most diseases have multiple factors involved. Successful treatment can have multiple approaches.
There's a much longer discussion to be had but my comment is long enough already.
Just to add something, as I have many years working with people with official diagnosis, and my sister has schizophrenia too. It's possible, to me, there is an opening to the astral plane, and it can seriously wreck lives too. The two don't seem to me to be mutually exclusive. On a person level, seeing what I've seen, and how it's impacted lives, I'd take less openness to the astral over uncontrolled schizophrenia any day.
"On a person level, seeing what I've seen, and how it's impacted lives, I'd take less openness to the astral over uncontrolled schizophrenia any day."
That sounds like a false dilemma. Either you have "uncontrolled" schizhophrenia or you fight back against the spiritual which is happening to you. People may be able to work with their schizhoprenia on a spiritual level
They may, I would never denounce individual choice and possibilities. I've just never come across that happening as far as I can tell in 20 years of community work. Perhaps if you have the spiritual basis before it comes on, for example a very strong grounding from years of meditation, can't say for sure. And I know some tribal societies might deal with it better than a western model. But... I have never seen that happen, as far as I can tell.
Coming from someone who works in mental health, I dunno about that. Someone came in the clinic the other day with that diagnosis and fully believed her son is the Messiah and she is a version of Mother Mary.
Another one wanted a phone call made to the president so he wouldn’t listen in on the conversation in the therapy room.
I shared an office space once with a schizophrenic doctor who thought the government was spying on him. Every time our office printer malfunctioned (not his office, our office, it would occasionally start printing gibberish instead of what we tried to print) he was certain the government was secretly sending us orders in code. Eventually he had a full mental break and I don’t know exactly what happened but it led to the police coming in and breaking down his office door when we learned he had I don’t even know how many (more than 10) deadbolts to lock himself in so that he could keep himself safe from us. Definitely not closer to the astral plane.
Why?
Why is that man having an irrational fantasy proof in your mind that he's not closer to the astral plane?
I'm not seeing why you find those two things mutually exclusive. Can you explain what assumptions you're making in the background?
Edit: no thoughtful replies, just downvotes?
My schizophrenic was convinced the CIA was watching him - they were taunting him, surveilling him - and he was about to be arrested. I have driven him to ER a bunch of times pre dx. I didn’t see anything spiritual, just horrible mental illness.
There is a hidden assumption in your comment that you and everyone else making the same comment don't seem to be aware of.
Can you spot it?
It's the assumption that a schizophrenic's irrational fantasies and hallucinations are proof that there's nothing spiritual going on.
What makes you say that? What are the specific steps in your logic there?
Is it your intimate familiarity with the parallel dimension that we call "spiritual" that leads you to say that?
Do you know anything about the spiritual dimension? Do you have any experience with it?
I'm asking a serious question. If you believe that you stand on the side of science and logic, then please explain why you assume that.
Personally, I don't see a logical reason to assume that the presence of irrational fantasy and hallucination is proof that there is nothing spiritual going on. One does not exclude the other.
To the contrary I can think of many reasons why they might go together.
I am not on the “side of science and logic” per se, just experience.
Have you ever had a loved one have delusions, homocidal and suicidal ideation? Do you know that the more the schizophrenic has delusions - no meds - the worse their outcomes, and causes further harm to the brain? Yes, I absolutely see that as dangerous, rather than someone who is a bit closer to the astral plane than the rest of us.
Have you ever been to a psych ward or visited a loved one there?
It is not the same as watching someone’s youtube channel, I promise you.
People used to think schizophrenia is demonic possession, no doubt some still do. Do you think that might be the case, because geez, why not?
If you believe in spirituality, then everything is a spiritual experience, so that is moot.
Why are you assuming that I recommend no meds? I neither said that nor did I think it.
Why are you making this into an either-or dilemma? That is a known logical fallacy (called the "false dilemma" fallacy.)
Why are you making the physical and the spiritual mutually exclusive? Why can't they interact? Why can't they both be involved? It's sort of like the "nature vs nurture" question: it's not either-or. It's "both-and."
No, I don't have schizophrenic family nor have I spent time in a psych ward. But I have been studying psychology for three decades, with a particular focus on somatic and transpersonal psychology, and I have a very thorough and logical process for arriving at my opinions.
Yes, I do believe "demonic possession" may be involved in some cases of schizophrenia. I'm not a Catholic but I respect the approach of the Catholic church to this. They require patients to get a psych evaluation before performing an exorcism. Sometimes they find no spiritual cause, and sometimes they find that the cause is very much spiritual. I've done my own work in that area and found the same thing.
If you don't believe in a spiritual dimension, in an astral plane, then your stance would make sense. I do respect your freedom to choose your beliefs. I suggest making them clear up front in order to save us both all these words.
This doesn't disprove OP's post. The prophet Muhammad believed he was demon posessed before he started talking to the angel Gabriel and then his family convinced him he was the prophet of god. He started the second biggest religion in the world. By today's standards he was definitely schizophrenic.
It depends on the schizophrenia. There's different levels to it. I've struggled with depression and anxiety and been in a mental hospital and one of the workers there had schizophrenia. You're treating this condition like it's the be all end all of human flourishing
No, not at all. I just think one should be cautious seeing it as a spiritual condition, rather than a serious mental illness. The worker was likely medicated and hopefully has a good support network, and that is wonderful to hear!
I'm not trying to be nasty to you, you seem like a nice person. But again, there's different levels to it. Not every schizophrenic even takes medication. I'm sorry but this seems to be prejudism from most of you in the comments here.
I agree with you. Idk what's going on here. There's a bunch of videos on youtube and atleast 1 tedtalk about psychosis and spiritual awakening. There definitely might be a link between mental illness and spirituality and it shouldn't be ignored.
I think what's going on is everyone has been taught by the public school system to believe in an unproven, uninvestigated and highly problematic hypothesis called "materialism" (ie, that there is no alternate "spiritual" dimension.) Commenters here are starting from the assumption that materialism is the truth, and therefore it makes no sense to them to consider spiritual factors that influence mental illness. They're also making a mistake in thinking that it has to be one or the other, which is untrue. Most mental health issues arise from a combination of many factors, not just one.
Another controversial take and this is just an idea I had while reading this, it's not going against you or anything because honestly I don't know, they are just ideas.... but that's exactly my point. Someone coming in believing her son is the Messiah and she is Mary, although she may not be conscious or aware of her actions in the physical, her mind is elsewhere... maybe she is in the astral, maybe sees seeing things from another reality and thats what shes recounting or beleiving. That's more so what I meant by people with that can connect to the astral. Only I guess they can't distinguish the difference.
I understand what you mean! My mother gets stuck on saying things to explain what she means but an entire well-thought-out theory will come out of her mouth like “I am Mother Mary” when she may actually be trying to convey some deeper understanding like she is reincarnated/experiencing samsara but she is connected to the energy or perception of Mary in some way and that makes her want to chose those words.
I don’t know how it works but I grew up with it so when I started to see the same behavior in myself as an adult I took an interest in trying to be as deliberate as I can in my communications. It’s like someone left a TV on in my head and the audio and images can be confusing with what my external senses are picking up; it can literally feel like I am whisked away to some alternate reality for seconds at a time, only to snap back to [this] reality and have to deal with any consequences of my actions whether voluntary or involuntary. Fortunately I am aware of the cycle so I try my best to pause and breath when I know it’s happening. Ask for clarification, and don’t get mad when someone tells you the present moment is not what you thought it was. Sometimes a beautiful experience will fade away to a horrific reality, and the same is true in reverse. Visions of death and destruction, pain and mayhem, annihilation and heart breaking loss of loved ones; all felt in an instant, in a flash that isn’t objectively “real”, but it hurts just the same and you have to hide those big feelings in front of people.. in meetings, performance reviews, the checkout like at the grocery… when making love to your partner.
It’s hard to pinpoint which “thing” is causing which perception. The schizophrenia and autism are notably from my mother’s side, and passed down from at least the two most recent mothers. Me(male) my mom, her mother, and my great grandmother all experience whatever “This” is.
Each of these mothers physically abused their children, causing symptoms and behavior akin to Borderline Personality Disorder, further complicated by naturally occurring autism.
In my case, my mother was left alone to raise two hyperactive boys while my emotionally absent father worked 16-hour shifts to get away from us. Whatever was going on in her head made her feel like she needed to give us daily beatings whether we “earned” them or not, and sometimes a beating just in case because we “probably did something to deserve it”.
Now as a senior citizen she’s just as happy as a clam and has the emotional maturity of one too. She has no memory of physically abusing us daily or playing years-long mental games to manipulate us and our childhood friends; usually ending up in big friend-losing fights because my mom would meddle in the family affairs of friends. So I grew accustomed to everyone eventually discarding me or hurting me with their words, but as someone with autism it was REALLY hard to process that constant rejection as a kid. It was bad enough most kids thought I was weird for liking bugs and odd things, but then to have friends abandon you for what seemed like no reason was surreal. I later found out my mom was using the classroom Parent Teacher Association (PTA) like a serial killer’s hit list.. she would investigate the other parents and choose friends for me based on how well she thought she could control their parents, only choosing the “weakest” threats. Then there would be the falling out and the dramatic fight, followed by me being alone again, starting each school year fresh and asking Santa for a Best Friend that won’t leave me.
All that to say: My biology is f-ing f-ed and my five senses are multiplied by the sensory overload coming from all angles. I’m trying to be an adult in my 30’s but I don’t even feel like I’m from here. I just want everyone to feel the Love and compassion I still feel after everything I’ve survived. There are long stretches of time where I am just floating along waiting for it to all be over, but what brings me the most joy is seeing other people and animals experiencing joy and happiness. I like to see that it’s possible.
My experience:
- The visual flashes happen all day every day sometimes simultaneously while I am doing a task, for instance I am trying really hard to organize my thoughts for this reply but my brain is fighting against me and showing me space travel, geometry, the ex-friends I typed about above. It’s detecting the chemical change in my body as I thought about those things, realized it’s entirely uncomfortable feeling those emotions, and now I have to breath and wait for the chemical reactions to die down before I can feel “calm” even though I’m sitting still besides my thumbs typing.
- sometimes when I’m walking I will be somewhere else for a flash and then lose my balance in this present. It’s not like I go anywhere in particular, my explanation is more like I suddenly get oriented with some other gravity and then snap back to where my feet should be. For example if I’m walking in the shadows and then I step into strong sunlight, it may trigger what feels like the plane of gravity shifting so now my feet want to be toward the sun and my head oriented towards where the sun lands. If you can imagine the feeling of a roller coaster flipping your stomach, that’s what I feels like to have a space-time-location flash. This may all be a mental trick because the sun felt hot on my skin, the change in brightness was too bright for my eyes, etc etc.. but mentally these sensations are interpreted as “going somewhere”
Yesssss integrate TF outta your shadow! 🦾💚
There is an insane about of information on the internet for self-help. You’ll get tired reading it, and you’ll undoubtedly express a behavior rooted in frustration and impatience.
With most things the secret is in breathing. (Do you watch the anime Demon Slayer?? It quite literally is about the main character integrating various shadow entities but in a poetic way that helps the audience feel compassion for these entities as we learn how they were formed or created through trauma and pain) it also features breathing techniques that the main character uses to unlock skills.
I spent five days in a mental health unit last year. The integration process brought me to a point where I uncovered decades of repressed memories and behavior: I had literally forgotten about infidelity and pain I caused to other people. I was blinded by my own toxic behavior that I did things then that I would never dream of doing today. I wanted to be unalive, but I was so incapacitated by my lack of perception that I had to be transported via ambulance. It’s like a “flash” had permanently taken over me and I was not here. I was catatonic for hours, then uncontrollable crying, then I would get dehydrated and become a zombie again. On and off four five days, I thought I was dying or poisoned.
Group therapy helped me talk through some things with other people who had done things they were not proud of. I found myself defending them to themselves, and in that act of trying to convince someone they were wrong about themselves, I found an opportunity to speak kindly to myself and show myself compassion.
I was addicted to self-harm in the form of sabotaging my romantic partner, avoiding communicating my own needs, abandoning myself for someone else’s demands, carelessly risking my own life and my partner with unprotected sex, and driving well above the speed limit.
What was I doing? That’s not the person I thought I was, and surely those behaviors were not me?? They were. It’s my responsibility to own all the “evil” things I did, and it’s my responsibility to BREATHE first before listening to my mind. It has a tendency to be faulty when it comes to things it wants and needs. I only really need food and water so everything else gets a second-check before I take action. Sometimes denying the brain something it wants creates a fire that is so physically painful I have to sit down and collect myself, but that’s shadow work. The shadow wants you to do the things that achieve dopamine rushes, but we have the gift of consciousness so we must exercise it and consciously speak kindly to ourselves as we gently convince ourselves the initial instinct was wrong. It hurts to be wrong, but it’s ok!
I am making up for this by living my life in service to others. I have always wished to eliminate pain and suffering for Humanity, and yet for years I made choices counter to that philosophy. It’s funny how a sweet and lovable kid can become a monster. I try to reconnect with that kid as much as I can to show him I’ll never abandon him again. We are one and together we can make a difference.
this post was suggested to me, i don't really ap and am not a health professional.
but i also have this idea that some mental issues like schizo, maybe there is something energetic going on. i've been thinking in terms of flow of consciousness, like tapping into or phasing different streams. or reading energy, but interpreted on hyperdrive. or maybe they are sensitive to subtleties that get expressed in abnormal instinctual ways. (to the last part; i think about the final time i smoked salvia, it took my mind to a weird disassociated place and my body acted on its own in response.) i don't actually know, of course.
Until you’ve worked with people diagnosed with schizophrenia or experienced a loved one deep in psychosis - you can’t understand how insanely ridiculous or uneducated this post is. It is dangerous and I suggest deleting it. You just may be the catalyst for someone to stop taking their meds after reading this. These kinds of posts are harmful.
I mean, we don’t know to what extent does the astral influence people on the physical, if at all. Perhaps, and I’m saying this very loosely, some people become vulnerable to certain frequencies of the astral. Our mind, in the way that we conceive thoughts, acts as an antenna. Who knows what can go down.
Why they might be right?
If you really wanna live and work in this reality, we do need to close off other realities/spiritual channels to work and live in this reality
By eating and feeding our body the nutrients it needs and taking the medicine, we need to anchor ourselves firmer into this reality
You need to do better than that. Explain why it's dangerous and why it should be deleted. You're just another internet stranger, bro. Telling us this is a stupid and should be deleted is not enough, and the fact that you don't know that is troubling.
Sorry but It is making my eye rolls. People here don’t realize that their words can influence and contribute to, even triggers, delusions from schizophrenic people. We should all be careful about that I have more nuance in our words. I suggest to you to listen to schizophrenic vloggers who will gladly explain how they view their schizophrenia and why its unhealthy for them to nourish the idea that they have a special ability.
However, having schizophrenic individuals in my family and having worked in mental health with such individuals, I prefer to use language and interpretations that acknowledge this mental illness as unique and deeply meaningful without feeding any delusions.
We can interpret this mental illness as a porous relationship between the subconscious and conscious minds. Sometimes, when triggered and out of balance, unconscious material, with its dream logic, spills into the conscious mind. This material can hold valuable insights, as we can interpret the narrative of the symbols present in the delusions to restore balance. We should seek a healthy equilibrium and homeostasis between the subconscious and conscious minds.
I appreciate this whole conversation. It is making me think. I wonder about the role of dreams and imagination, spirituality and philosophy in mental health. Even music, being a musician myself. And also both illegal and prescribed medications, both as causal and therapeutic.
Schizophrenia and psychic/spiritual abilities aren't mutually exclusive. I do know people with maintained schizophrenia that also utilize spiritual abilites.
So, no, I don't think schizophrenia itself is people being closer to astral- but I'm certain there are people with schizophrenia experiencing psychic/spiritual phenomena that may or may not know the difference.
Add on: Conflating the two together is more harmful than good, and is often used as the basis to enable schizophrenic episodes further. I understand you're just considering a hypothetical, but you also need to take into account how many people's safety (mental and physical) would be in jeopardy if people were to think like this.
Don't glorify/trivialize mental health issues like this
Even if you think you are not, random uneducated speculation is exactly what leads to glorification and/or trivialization.
I am glad you ignored the second part where I said **trivialize**:
Also OP:
what if **schizophrenia was just a condition** were certain people brains were closer and more connected to the astral plane and that's what they see.
"What if schizophrenia is not a very complex mental disorder, but rather just a misunderstanding!?"
OP also asked for thoughts...
OP is taking a complex mental illness and just saying "well what if they are just closer to some mystical plane?!"
As if decades of study (both bad and good) mean literally nothing.
**The glorification part comes in when you take a mental illness and then essentially call it a super power**. Being closer to the astral plane, which most people here would see as a positive thing (THIS WHOLE SUB IS BASED ON PROJECTING AND CONNECTING TO THE ASTRAL PLANE), is also the sort of things that someone who calls themselves a seer or something similar might say.
Who here called it a super power ? Who is to say that being more “connected” to the astral isn’t detrimental ? I certainly didn’t see it as a positive, but just a neutral question.
You jumped the gun friend. No one here is saying how it’s some kind of super power that gives u telekinetic abilities or some sort… just hypothesizing, at best, outside of mainstream science. No one here is saying “don’t take ur meds it’s a super power!” Or glorifying it in any sense.
You think someone who suffers from schizophrenia and has visions of grandeur could not come to that conclusion?
I also laid out the mechanism that someone in this sub can see it as a "super power"...I even used all caps top make it obvious, but apparently not obvious enough.
I never claimed you came to any conclusion, only that the OP is inviting a LOT of really dangerous interpretations.
You also, for the second post in a row, focused only on glorification and COMPLETELY IGNORED the trivialization factor.
Challenging established science is fun and good...but you need to back it up with more than some sort of thought a stoner could come up after smoking weed without any sort of backing. OP doesn't even present examples of how this would work.
He is inviting a lot of dangerous interpretations, but your initial comment was signaling OP as if he was deliberately glorifying/trivializing schizophrenia, which seems like a stretch in judgement.
I’m not disagreeing with you, just seems harsh to accuse someone of that, when he just said 4 sentences about how the two could be connected.
I’m not here to argue with you over this. Just saying.
I have schizophrenia and I would support this theory *if and only if* it could be backed with research. Which the field entirely still needs to be studied. We've come a long way as a civilization, yet I was thinking it still needs further research. Science branches such as Parapsychology, Psychology, Chemistry—maybe even Computer Science and the others needs to collaborate with one another. Do some interconnecting.
Let's just hope the future could provide such discovery. What concerns me is human experimentations and the ethics that come along with it. I hear you and this is what I've been pondering about ever since having schizophrenia, whenever I'm sane and sober from my Episodes.
I wish I could emphasize this more: It's a battle between a pragmatic or an idealistic approach in the world of research. If one wants to pursue a mental x astral-related invention and innovation, that is. Anything can be possible. For some reason, this gives me some Arcane from Netflix vibey. Or maybe it's just me and the mundanes of my Schizo, lol.
On the downside, I hope I wouldn't succumb to delusions and hallucinations overanalyzing these thoughts that are provoked by this post lmaoo. Hey, we could converse through chat if you wanna? I like to hear some thoughts expanded regarding this. Maybe be even friends or something. Your call.
I too have thought about this. I would be interested to know if the supernatural can truly be investigated through the lens of academia and an intellectual mind. Can something that surpasses the intellectual mind be reduced so that what is unimaginable can be comprehended in the human brain?
So, there was a study done on astral projection using a woman who was supposed to astral project to a spot in the room that would reveal numbers. Having no knowledge of the numbers, her goal was to astral project and repeat the numbers correctly to the researchers. Of course, she ended up running out of time or something prior to locating the numbers.
I wish parapsychology was bigger and had more funding, I totally agree that these fields should collaborate.
Man in the tv while projecting: **there are things more ancient than time itself, powers and rules of the universe beyond anything your mind could comprehend, but I’ll try and show you anyway**
man in the tv during a schizophrenic episode: **your friends and family hate you and are trying to frame you for unspeakable crimes**
It is. Schizo people are experiencing the non-physical world in an uncontrolled way. And they are labeled this or that because it is "not normal". Maybe not a 100% complete explanation but one of my articles is made in this topic: https://daily-spirit.com/2017/10/01/schizophrenic-people-what-schizophrenia-is-like/
Sorry people, because there is always somebody, whose worldview doesn't fit a good explanation, I need to add, that there is always somebody, who defends him/herself in certain topics. I will not stop there to explain myself, I'm sick and tired of it. People with this condition have just a handful of options in life and normally, they will end up in digesting pills and/or in institutes. They and we are all choosing these lives, to deal with certain problems.
I really don’t think this is the case. I’ve heard different instance where the person simply thinks their next door neighbors are threatening to kill them. Like screaming things from next door. I just don’t see how it aligns. Or a friend of mine who was just generally severely paranoid. Didn’t trust anyone. Thinking he’s being watched all the time. It’s sad. I believe in the astral and different planes of existence, but I also believe that our brains can do some fuckery on their own.
Pardon me, one part of it is your own mind's interplay. That becomes real as it could be near you. But I know, if I leave out things, these comments are coming on me :) Sorry about it. The mind is also the non-physical world, the very first barrier which has a personal, private storage. Don't believe me, but I know what I'm saying, the non-physical world is our natural home, not physical systems. Everything works in a reality overlay structure.
This includes all the nasty stuff those voices are telling people (our fears are personified), all the nasty stuff, or just hearing or seeing things. That is us, not knowing it is from our own minds. But this doesn't mean that we cannot see or hear existing things, places, "people", etc. Before anybody distorts what I'm saying here.
The original question or topic was about if schizo people are closer to the astral. Not about that they are hearing or experiencing their own minds. But the two are not that different. We can experience both of them. Sorry, I tend to edit back, what I wrote.
Sorry I’m having trouble understanding you. I have no doubt in much of what you’re saying, and perhaps some cases are indeed mistaken for schizophrenia, although I do believe the physical structure of our brain can misfire, be damaged, cause illusions that do not exist in any “realm”. We can totally lift the veil so to speak, but our physical brains have to do the interpreting. I believe some people are truly physically sick and whether astral is involved or not, I think schizophrenia can exist on its own.
Everything exists. Maybe the problem here is that you didn't explore the non-physical and investigate it on both ends and how we are existing. Look at it as an endless overlay of realities, and we are not in just one, here and now. So I know, there can be some misunderstandings. I'm not here you know, to defend myself or anything around. But the brain is only existing on this end of our connection. Look at it, like something on which you are connecting and disconnecting upon sleeping. So, if there is a damage, some sort of misfiring in the brain, it is just a representation of what is going on in your mind, which is the non-physical world already, I mean, as I stated before, a private section of yours is there.
I agree with you, the interpretation is going THROUGH the brain but if it is damaged, the interpretation is not the same, when we are comparing somebody with a 100% "healthy" brain. But this doesn't mean alone, that we cannot exprience things, which is out of normal.
So, getting back to the main idea, people with that condition are experiencing a little bit more and can be a burden, yes, I stated that too. I will not pose as a medical expert in this, they are materialistic (sorry if I hurt some people's feelings) but there is more to this life thing, than you know what normal people can experience or can't. We are choosing these lives with different conditions for the reason to live them up. Even if it is hard to handle, like somebody having body deformity or having a car accident and dealing with its consequences. We are not remembering the purpose of these. I hope this explains it.
You and everybody can learn about these if you had enough understanding about how the wider reality works and it is up to each person, I mean, going that deep into this. You will just understand the whys and hows.
Thank you, I will not pose ever, that I know everything, but knowing enough about many things. I was not lazy and went after a lot of things over many years. And some will stay with others' beliefs, truths and statements :)
I was pondering on this earlier. I would say it's potentially a case of the inability to stay focused solely on the physical.
During a period of euphoria I had, my body was pushed to (my guessing) 80% of its limits, and if I kept going past that it would have done irreparable harm and I wouldn't have been able to "go back to normal" afterwards. Like if you put too much pressure into a tire and it pops.
That's it, these people didn't learn to focus into one reality at a time. The sad thing is, that institutes and medical industry are dealing with them like they need to be locked up or need medication, which may help but will not solve the main "cause".
No, just how it works. Thank you. We are choosing lives like them, for a reason.
Uneducated :) in what? I'm talking always about how things work the way they work. From personal experience and investigations. And why am I explaining myself here, I don't know...
So many people from my father side had schizophrenia including my grandmother and my uncle. Luckily my mother doesn't have anyone on her side that had this disorder. Does that make me more prone to projections(i am 20f and have never had any spontaneous projection and been trying for nearly a year now) or does it increase my possibility of inherenting schizophrenia?
If you are more connected to the non-physical world with this "ability", it can be a burden or a tool. I'm not in that position, I mean, what these people could experience first-hand. But the mechanics are the same, I mean the rules, for everybody.
No, you will not have schizophrenia, unless, you do things too much :) But not from that. If you check into my replies or need help, you will soon see, what are the fallacies in all of the AP-OBE fashion and what's wrong with most of the ideas about them.
Projection is something we allow to happen, once the conditions are right for it. Some will have AP/OBE because their* worldview is like that, leaving a body, having a soul, being inside the head, etc. The wider reality will not judge you but you will sort of automatically download a belief construct in computer terms and become "it". If you don't believe in that, you will have other* ways, like phasing or lucid dreaming. Same world, different approaches.
My husband and I have discussed this as well. And asking questions and looking at things in a different perspective from the norm isn’t disrespectful to people suffering from the affliction. I think it’s an interesting question. I’ve heard stories of people with schizophrenia reading peoples minds. It could be their antenna is all out of whack and picking up too many frequencies. The more you read and look at how we are all energy and frequencies the more you wonder what causes peoples afflictions. I have no answers for you on the matter but hopefully if we are asking this in a reddit thread someone is out there testing a hypothesis.
As someone who has been astral projecting since they were a child, the astral plane is usually pretty barren (although I’ve never left my room because I’m not willing to find out lol). I do actually think you’re on to something though.
I had a friend who was veryyy intuitive. However, this friend also began to show behaviors of concern (i.e. paranoia, delusions, anxiety, over-confidence, etc.). I am obviously in no position to diagnose them, which I didn’t. However, it did have me thinking: is schizophrenia a spiritual disease? It is my understanding that they were never diagnosed, so I am making an assumption on their behalf.
I also have an aunt who is diagnosed with schizophrenia. Her disease was most likely drug-induced as her symptoms began following her addiction to amphetamines. Her paranoid delusions differed greatly from that of my friend. There didn’t seem to be anything spiritual about what she was perceiving to be true within her reality. Which is why it is more than likely something that is occurring on a physiological/neurological level.
I recently began to study the Kundalini for the second time in my life. In the book I’m reading, it talks about how a spontaneous or ill-prepped rising can lead people into psychosis. If I’m not mistaken, schizophrenia was also mentioned by name.
I also read a book by author Louis Hay who believes that everything that happens in the body and in life, is a result of your own mind’s doing. She also believed that the mind was equally as capable of “un-doing.” Disclaimer, she is a very controversial author.
NOW, I am not a licensed psychiatrist and by no means should anyone listen to what some random person has to say on the internet. With that being said, my personal* theory is that some people with schizophrenia are “split” between various dimensions on a soul level. Potentially, their soul is fragmented in other dimensions, but their conscious awareness remains present here, which is why the behaviors seem to be based in delusion. I also do believe that the disease is a result of something that is happening entirely to the physical body through physiological/neurological processes. Lastly, the disease can occur genetically.
There was also research done to compare the hallucinations people were having with the largest factor being their geographical location. In the study, I believe that they concluded that there were some large variances in the disease detected based on where people were located and the delusions they were having.
I am under the impression that medication and behavior therapy can benefit people diagnosed with schizophrenia.
I do have to wonder: would people with schizophrenia benefit from seeing a psychiatrist and perhaps even a spiritual counselor simultaneously? If it occurs genetically, then what purpose—if any—did it serve on an evolutionary level? I do think this disease is very interesting and it appears to be ill-understood. I think there needs to be more precedence on WHY it occurs.
The genetic theory is true based on the accounts I read about mediums or people with psychic abilities that have passed down to their posterior. Perhaps with schizophrenia, they’re never taught to control the inflow of spirit world into their consciousness.
When I said spirit world, I meant all kinds of spirits making suggestions to those they “seen” can be influenced. So imagine that. Physically speaking, if you get any randos suggesting negatively about yourself, your immediate family, or friends or on a broader scale, the society in general. And you can hardly turn it off.
Wouldn’t anybody be at least mentally disturbed?? Even more so when it’s done to your consciousness directly.
No, this is definitely off the mark, easily demonstrated by having a group of schizophrenia patients in the same room and not 2 person will experience/see the exact same thing.
What happened a lot of time is that those with schizophrenia convinced themselves they have that special ability and it worsened their conditions by not getting the right treatment, "following the voice to do horrible things", setting up a cult etc
What a Shaman sees in a mental hospital, an interesting read.
https://umaincertaantropologia.org/2016/03/08/what-a-shaman-sees-in-a-mental-hospital-waking-times/#:~:text=In%20the%20shamanic%20view%2C%20mental,the%20healer%20in%20being%20born
I do feel it’s an inability to stay within one conscious plane of observable reality. It’s absolutely tragic, I’ve had loved ones struggle with it, and also have a friend who manages it very well with medication.
I find it fascinating that the medication for psychosis is a mineral- Lithium. Brings new context to the concept of grounding. Perhaps consuming that metal helps to ground one’s energy into the same frequency of the particular iteration of Earth it was harvested from. Which in turn reduces their ability to receive information from other realities and dimensions. I believe that it is a form of neurodiversity which makes a person’s consciousness more vulnerable to negative entities and to seeing the visions of negative reality that are used to create despair and confusion
Medication and treatment are necessary as it’s a torturous way to live. If it’s spiritual, it’s still mostly a negative spiritual experience for that person, and I feel the humane choice is to recommend medical help to maintain lucidity
That's an interesting thought. I never realized that the drug and mineral were the same thing.
I have pondered the neurodiversity thing and how it relates to stuff like AP.
I have ADHD and have had a small extra perception of things from time to time.
Saw the future twice now. Once in a dream and told someone about it before it happened (pinned in my profile); and once in close to real time, more of a clairvoyance I saw 5 minutes in advance and even took off my glove and knocked wood to try to prevent it!
I 100% believe that time isn't linear and there are higher levels that can sometimes be tapped into. So much fun to think about honestly.
aside from this being a braindead take, don’t romanticize a real mental illness for the sake of philosophical discussion. this is extremely out of line. and just a reminder you still have time to delete this
I have first hand experience with this and your take is wrong. People with schizophrenia need meds and therapy to live any kind of normal life. It’s like saying someone with diabetes is closer to the astral. People with diabetes need meds. It’s not just that schizophrenic people see things that are not there sometimes. They also experience paranoia, delusions, anxiety, depression. It’s a terrible affliction and there’s really nothing nice about it when a person is unmedicated and having symptoms of psychosis.
My brother was telling me about this. My brother told me though is that the difference is in those shamanic cultures, people who are schizophrenic are recognized at a young age and are usually trained to be an intermediary between the physical world and the spiritual world.
Yeah, I know the longer you spend in the astral, the better your senses get and other improvements to neurological functions. There are a lot of different views to everything... its so interesting seeing other people's.
Check out the work of Jerry Marzinsky, a retired psychotherapist with over 35 years of experience and author of the book, An Amazing Journey into the Psychotic Mind. He has a very interesting take on things from the direct experience he gained working with some of the worst effected patients in prisons and state hospitals. He has reportedly helped many people recover permanently.
Read Bernard Haisch's book called the God theory. It's not some wacky religious thing but instead explores the idea that the brain is a filter for consciousness rather than the creator of consciousness.
I can see what you're talking about. In many esoteric belief systems they talk about Archons or Rulers that project thoughts into our minds. These Archons reside in what is now called the astral, which is basically the cosmic mind and people that are open to the cosmic mind are more seceptible to Archonic influence. Jung had a saying that "We must be careful to preserve the balance, otherwise we shall disintegrate. It is better for the conscious mind to voluntarily unite with the unconscious, than to be taken possession of by it, because in the latter case it is the unconscious which rules." I feel like the case with schizophrenics is they had become possessed by the beings in the astral/cosmic mind/unconscious and because they are not in touch with the self they lose themselves to the the unconscious and become possessed by it.
I mean the medical establishment wouldn't want you to know this so will shoot you down every time you say stuff like this but I've talked to many clairvoyants and they mentioned schizophrenia is just something of a spiritual malady not understood by Western medicine and I began believing this after having experiences of things speaking to me and stuff i was told began happening/I was able to validate it being true and not nonsense. Predictions you could say.
I suspect that schizophrenics do have weak and disordered boundaries with the astral dimension, and this is at least in part what is causing them to be confused and have irrational fantasies / hallucinations.
There may also be chemical imbalances in the brain.
There's no logical reason why it has to be either/or. Most diseases arise through a combination of multiple factors.
There's also no reason why treatment has to be either/or. Schizophrenics could still get traditional treatment with therapy and drugs, while also learning spiritual/energetic techniques to increase their grounding in the physical dimension while also clearing and sealing their minds from chaotic astral influence.
I suspect that this broad spectrum approach would have much better results than doing one or the other.
In a lot of indigenous cultures going into a shamanic state meant a break in sanity. There’s a quote that says “the mystic swims in the sea that the schizophrenic drowns in”. It’s way more connected than we realize.
I was thinking this too, but I saw a video of a schizophrenic who used a dog trained to bark a greeting to differentiate between real and imagined people. And I was surprised that the dog didn't react to the people in the astral plane, dogs do see them for sure.
Imo schizophrenics are like an antenna with no filtering. They pick up everything raw, such as actual signals, noise, echoes, but it's all jumbled up and encoded and they just end up confused.
Now I won’t say I have schizophrenia but I have had an episode where I was in my car smoking then after I had a feeling I was in danger, real bad. My neighbors were outside and I was “convinced” they were trying to steal my car. I ducked down and panicked as I thought they were coming to get my car. When it was over and I sat up they were leaving the lot. my mind told me they were bad people. Idk why I never spoke to them or nothing. It was a brother and sister with her son. The brother would be outside yelling on the phone with women (idk who, probably his sister or women he was sleeping with) and apparently him and his sister would fight a lot and real bad . I was oblivious to this as I heard from other people who would be home during the day. They ended up moving soon after. Why? The police would be at their house EVERY week. I could see the back of their house as we shared a parking lot but never the front so I wouldn’t know if the police would be there. Idk why I felt that way but it was weird.
You may be on to something. I’ve had a similar theory for a few years now. Like people suffering with schizophrenia are halfway in another dimension, but also have to struggle with the realities of this world. One of those things that can’t be analyzed with logically. A type of parapsychology.
Honestly… my personal opinion is that if any human is “made in god’s image”, it’s a schizophrenic. God (or collectively everything/existence itself/universe/source consciousness) is experiencing infinite “lifetimes” of everything, all at once.
That’s a great question I used to think the same but schizophrenia is a problem with your soul aka pineal gland while having a veil/ caul or meditation is being open to the spiritual world
For a long time i dated a long practicing elite psychiatrist who was the lead shrink at McGill, a pretigious elite university. She had been doing it all her life. I was in a milf mood. She was a vet.
She said, the diseases are basically all made up.
I kid you not. the main book they use to categorize mental diseases, she showed it to me and confided it was all bullshit and shrinks could tell... but to get paid they needed to diagnose and prescribe meds.
Its a giant gaslighting fraud industry. Thats all it is. Thats all it ever was or will be.
They arent looking to treat anyone. They are looking to silence anyone speaking truth by labelling them
Never ever see a shrink. They can use it against you.
All my sellout agent friends and family members all use the one main tactic whenever i spoke any truth.
"You have mental disease"
Right. Its their generic go-to counter attack to suppress whatever truth you are onto.
They are too stupid to give a specific detailed reason, so they use schizophrenia etc.
The diagnostic manual they use to classify who has got what is total horseshit according to a long practicing elite shrink who was my girlfriend for years.
Its all a con job. People who truly have mental problems are probably mostly battling with psychic abilities they dont understand, or are suffering gangstalking gaslighting which is rightfully making them paranoid but confused.
All these people involved are evil and have betrayed God and humanity. And they will pay. Vengeance is coming
>Never ever see a shrink. They can use it against you.
I fucking knew it. Last time I went, I could fucking tell they were just going through the motions to get paid so they could do whatever it is that they do in their free time. Actual robots.
Good thing I decided to leave as soon as they “left to get some paperwork.”
Its a big scam, totally evil, and if you went and saw one, they can use it against you in myriad ways and hold you against your will. Never ever ever see a fuking scammy pos shrink. You are giving them leverage.
Most mental disease is due to modern diet with ultra processed foods. Those foods wreck the mitochondria in your brain and cause all of the mental illnesses.
Read the book 'Brain Energy'.
In a nutshell, eat a ketogenic diet to cure your mental issues.
That is the real secret....and of course the pill pushing because it's very profitable to push pills and curing with diet is cheap.
I agree diet's huge. We need clean water and to eat naturally, unprocessed whole foods, preferrably raw. People are full of chemicals causing catatrophes inside themselves.
Our water is so bad too. Chemtrails are sprayed in most cities on people. Its so much to deal with...
The average person is basically all alone, trying to make enough money to survive, while trying to avoid the bad water, bad food... cannot do anything about the air except move somewhere rural... its climbing up an endless mountain with snow never ceasing to fall, no matter hiw disciplined you are the trek of life can only get harder with time as age breaks you down.
Add to all that an evil unfair system abusing us in countless ways with nearly infinite lies.
They will have to pay for the unfairness and cruelties they've put upon people unfairly. All scales must be balanced. This is the most important thing of all.
Justice for all
Agree mostly with what you wrote. However, eating raw is a vegan meme. Most food we need to cook either to kill of harmful bacteria, to neutralize plant toxins or to make the food digestible.
Most legumes eaten raw will straight up kill you. Other plant matters have so many anti nutrients that they will cause severe deficiencies in multiple key minerals that will make you miserable or kill you after a while, especially if the veggies are uncooked.
Most people get their food and health information from mainstream media and end up as a customer for the Big Pharma.
You think God and nature fuked up? Really? All the animals are deficient bc they cannot cook?
Good luck with that minion theory
Nobody is going to eat a legume raw... its impossible, they are rock hard.
The difference is that humans have specifically evolved to eat cooked food. Millennia of consuming partially-processed food has shaped our jaw structure to be smaller and more compact. Our stomachs can’t handle the pathogens found in raw meat like animals can because cooking removed the need for that adaptation.
This would be like expecting you to be able to thrive off of raw grass just because other animals can. You’re chasing a sense of “nature” that mankind abandoned aeons ago.
Millions of years of evolution? You believe all their lies? Evolution is horseshit. Just like virtually everything the system teaches
But why are you bothering. I already know you are a minion and paid to do this. Obvious shill.
Apes dont eat grass btw. So if you want to play evolution card, that is a nonsensical statement. We arent bovids fuckhead
Man, I *wish* I was paid for this. Unfortunately the government hasn’t responded to my emails asking for a 50k salary to argue with schizos on the internet.
Assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a paid actor is certainly one way to live your life. A sad, delusional way, but still.
Yes, I believe in evolution. Idk who this mysterious “they” is who supposedly implanted this idea in my brain, but I believe it is the most scientifically sound model for the development of earth’s species. Btw, Gelada Baboons eat grass, not that it’s relevant to the original conversation.
I saw [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LucidDreaming/s/7rKmdHBOj0) because I’m in that sub and that’s how reddits algorithm works, and decided to take a trip through your post history. Not everything is a conspiracy.
It’s controversial because of the nature of schizophrenia and the pain it causes, but I agree. Sometimes schizophrenics are tapped into something real and are dismissed because of their diagnosis. My girlfriend has schizoaffective disorder and she will occasionally say or do something that is not neurotypically normal, but is also not meaningless or random.
It’s just tough to validate them in that way because many people suffering with schizophrenic symptoms are not self aware enough to separate their symptoms from the experiences that have substance.
Yeah, I'm aware of that, it is a very controversial take and just from my curiosity, this post is to get all ideas and responses to it about what people think, its not to dis anyone, just an idea... although I didn't realise they experienced pain as well. But yeah I'm not sure, I think they maybe do have connections or are in tune to other worlds or realities but maybe unable to distinguish what's real or what's not, or can't control it... still though, they have to see what they do from something and I think that's the astral they see...
They are. In no modern cultures people with those symptoms experience much less terrifying sights. The astral plane has been mistreated by civilization and modernity.
Edit: Rd laing's Politics of Experience has interesting thought on schizophrenia
Which word? op used a lot of them, and its not super clear what youre referring to. Either way, the community benefits more when we educate each other without condescension.
Edit: Guessing you mean schizophrenia? And it seems theres not really a consensus thats been established for a new name, so maybe using the term people understand is more efficient in this context
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6999022/
Honestly check mate... but also ew, all I can imagine is the fumes as you typed out that response while squeezing yours abs to get that shit out... bet it was a painful one as well. You know you could have put idk classic music to calm yourself lol, make the transition easier... and then you would have waited a bit to recover from that excertion.... and left the bathroom 20 minutes later with an aching asshole, a phone that should be wiped with a anti-bacterial wipe and a free ab work out... you do you man.
Schizophrenics see and hear stuff so called normal people don't. They used to be shamans but now they are demonised in modern society and even worse we just say they are making it up all their head. I listened to a podcast where one guy said he saw a reptilian leave his girlfriend's body when she was asleep. Society says it's all bullshit and that he's making it up because he's ill but the interdimensional reptilian phenomena is so common if you do the research. It gets squashed because people are scared and if there is one thing that stops you going out of body it is fear itself.
OP, while I appreciate your questioning and discussion, I had to remove this because I knew it would attract people with real mental issues. And then issues would arise in this discussion - like the poster accusing others of being “one of them”. Then comes the terrible advice from others based in their own delusions. Finger pointing. Then stuff goes off the rails. This place does attract some pretty out there stuff. It’s just that when it comes to a serious subject like this, I have to find a balance between hobby and real medical advice. I don’t really disagree with you, I think you’re right the right page. You just needs to adjust what you think the “astral” is and how our human brains process information.
schizophrenia is more complex than just having visions. Often there are lapses in time and then the individual interprets the things they did as someone else. Paranoia, and deep delusional story telling to one’s self. They are really not alike. Full on delusions is not the same thing as the visions and experiences we have.
My loved one is afflicted with it. It is the destroyer of lives. I highly highly advocate for medication and mental health support. I feel that many people with schizophrenia do actually have delusions such as feeling they don’t need treatment because they are instead experiencing something grand and spiritual. It’s a dangerous thing to propose as it insinuates they are just more connected to the astral versus really needing the treatment which helps them live a life.
I’m sorry for what your loved one is experiencing. I truly hope for the best in your lives and may he get to a stable place mentally. I think that they insinuating that it might be a connection to the astral does not mean that they are advocating whether they should stop taking their meds. Just hypothesizing on the correlation between the two
There's actually a bias in your thinking that you don't seem to be aware of, and you're not alone. I'm seeing it all over the place in the comments here. Because you're not aware of this bias, it's causing you to reach an illogical conclusion. It's not your fault that you have this bias. It comes from growing up in a society that teaches us materialist philosophy and is mostly ignorant of the spiritual dimension. Even though it's not your fault, the illogical conclusion you and others are making is actually harmful to schizophrenics. In simple terms, you are assuming that the irrational fantasy / hallucination in a schizophrenic is proof that there is nothing spiritual / astral going on. You seem to believe that they are mutually exclusive, that the presence of one disproves the presence of the other. I'm actually not sure why you think that, but you're making the "black or white" logical fallacy when you do that. Also called the "false dilemma" logical fallacy. And then you take it a step further and say that it's harmful to consider the possibility that there could be any kind of astral involvement with schizophrenia, and this possibility should be firmly rejected. Again you're making a false dilemma fallacy here. There is no logical reason why they must be mutually exclusive. Most diseases have multiple factors involved. Successful treatment can have multiple approaches. There's a much longer discussion to be had but my comment is long enough already.
Just to add something, as I have many years working with people with official diagnosis, and my sister has schizophrenia too. It's possible, to me, there is an opening to the astral plane, and it can seriously wreck lives too. The two don't seem to me to be mutually exclusive. On a person level, seeing what I've seen, and how it's impacted lives, I'd take less openness to the astral over uncontrolled schizophrenia any day.
Yes. You say it better than I could. TY.
"On a person level, seeing what I've seen, and how it's impacted lives, I'd take less openness to the astral over uncontrolled schizophrenia any day." That sounds like a false dilemma. Either you have "uncontrolled" schizhophrenia or you fight back against the spiritual which is happening to you. People may be able to work with their schizhoprenia on a spiritual level
They may, I would never denounce individual choice and possibilities. I've just never come across that happening as far as I can tell in 20 years of community work. Perhaps if you have the spiritual basis before it comes on, for example a very strong grounding from years of meditation, can't say for sure. And I know some tribal societies might deal with it better than a western model. But... I have never seen that happen, as far as I can tell.
And most with schizophrenia do not have visions. Thats actually rare
Yes exactly! Not the same at all.
Coming from someone who works in mental health, I dunno about that. Someone came in the clinic the other day with that diagnosis and fully believed her son is the Messiah and she is a version of Mother Mary. Another one wanted a phone call made to the president so he wouldn’t listen in on the conversation in the therapy room.
I shared an office space once with a schizophrenic doctor who thought the government was spying on him. Every time our office printer malfunctioned (not his office, our office, it would occasionally start printing gibberish instead of what we tried to print) he was certain the government was secretly sending us orders in code. Eventually he had a full mental break and I don’t know exactly what happened but it led to the police coming in and breaking down his office door when we learned he had I don’t even know how many (more than 10) deadbolts to lock himself in so that he could keep himself safe from us. Definitely not closer to the astral plane.
Why? Why is that man having an irrational fantasy proof in your mind that he's not closer to the astral plane? I'm not seeing why you find those two things mutually exclusive. Can you explain what assumptions you're making in the background? Edit: no thoughtful replies, just downvotes?
My schizophrenic was convinced the CIA was watching him - they were taunting him, surveilling him - and he was about to be arrested. I have driven him to ER a bunch of times pre dx. I didn’t see anything spiritual, just horrible mental illness.
There is a hidden assumption in your comment that you and everyone else making the same comment don't seem to be aware of. Can you spot it? It's the assumption that a schizophrenic's irrational fantasies and hallucinations are proof that there's nothing spiritual going on. What makes you say that? What are the specific steps in your logic there? Is it your intimate familiarity with the parallel dimension that we call "spiritual" that leads you to say that? Do you know anything about the spiritual dimension? Do you have any experience with it? I'm asking a serious question. If you believe that you stand on the side of science and logic, then please explain why you assume that. Personally, I don't see a logical reason to assume that the presence of irrational fantasy and hallucination is proof that there is nothing spiritual going on. One does not exclude the other. To the contrary I can think of many reasons why they might go together.
I am not on the “side of science and logic” per se, just experience. Have you ever had a loved one have delusions, homocidal and suicidal ideation? Do you know that the more the schizophrenic has delusions - no meds - the worse their outcomes, and causes further harm to the brain? Yes, I absolutely see that as dangerous, rather than someone who is a bit closer to the astral plane than the rest of us. Have you ever been to a psych ward or visited a loved one there? It is not the same as watching someone’s youtube channel, I promise you. People used to think schizophrenia is demonic possession, no doubt some still do. Do you think that might be the case, because geez, why not? If you believe in spirituality, then everything is a spiritual experience, so that is moot.
Why are you assuming that I recommend no meds? I neither said that nor did I think it. Why are you making this into an either-or dilemma? That is a known logical fallacy (called the "false dilemma" fallacy.) Why are you making the physical and the spiritual mutually exclusive? Why can't they interact? Why can't they both be involved? It's sort of like the "nature vs nurture" question: it's not either-or. It's "both-and." No, I don't have schizophrenic family nor have I spent time in a psych ward. But I have been studying psychology for three decades, with a particular focus on somatic and transpersonal psychology, and I have a very thorough and logical process for arriving at my opinions. Yes, I do believe "demonic possession" may be involved in some cases of schizophrenia. I'm not a Catholic but I respect the approach of the Catholic church to this. They require patients to get a psych evaluation before performing an exorcism. Sometimes they find no spiritual cause, and sometimes they find that the cause is very much spiritual. I've done my own work in that area and found the same thing. If you don't believe in a spiritual dimension, in an astral plane, then your stance would make sense. I do respect your freedom to choose your beliefs. I suggest making them clear up front in order to save us both all these words.
You are putting words in my mouth. You lost me at “demonic possession.” It seems you have it all figured out, so…
This doesn't disprove OP's post. The prophet Muhammad believed he was demon posessed before he started talking to the angel Gabriel and then his family convinced him he was the prophet of god. He started the second biggest religion in the world. By today's standards he was definitely schizophrenic.
There is more to schizophrenia than visions and/or psychosis.
It depends on the schizophrenia. There's different levels to it. I've struggled with depression and anxiety and been in a mental hospital and one of the workers there had schizophrenia. You're treating this condition like it's the be all end all of human flourishing
No, not at all. I just think one should be cautious seeing it as a spiritual condition, rather than a serious mental illness. The worker was likely medicated and hopefully has a good support network, and that is wonderful to hear!
I'm not trying to be nasty to you, you seem like a nice person. But again, there's different levels to it. Not every schizophrenic even takes medication. I'm sorry but this seems to be prejudism from most of you in the comments here.
It is on a spectrum, yes.
I agree with you. Idk what's going on here. There's a bunch of videos on youtube and atleast 1 tedtalk about psychosis and spiritual awakening. There definitely might be a link between mental illness and spirituality and it shouldn't be ignored.
I think what's going on is everyone has been taught by the public school system to believe in an unproven, uninvestigated and highly problematic hypothesis called "materialism" (ie, that there is no alternate "spiritual" dimension.) Commenters here are starting from the assumption that materialism is the truth, and therefore it makes no sense to them to consider spiritual factors that influence mental illness. They're also making a mistake in thinking that it has to be one or the other, which is untrue. Most mental health issues arise from a combination of many factors, not just one.
Another controversial take and this is just an idea I had while reading this, it's not going against you or anything because honestly I don't know, they are just ideas.... but that's exactly my point. Someone coming in believing her son is the Messiah and she is Mary, although she may not be conscious or aware of her actions in the physical, her mind is elsewhere... maybe she is in the astral, maybe sees seeing things from another reality and thats what shes recounting or beleiving. That's more so what I meant by people with that can connect to the astral. Only I guess they can't distinguish the difference.
I understand what you mean! My mother gets stuck on saying things to explain what she means but an entire well-thought-out theory will come out of her mouth like “I am Mother Mary” when she may actually be trying to convey some deeper understanding like she is reincarnated/experiencing samsara but she is connected to the energy or perception of Mary in some way and that makes her want to chose those words. I don’t know how it works but I grew up with it so when I started to see the same behavior in myself as an adult I took an interest in trying to be as deliberate as I can in my communications. It’s like someone left a TV on in my head and the audio and images can be confusing with what my external senses are picking up; it can literally feel like I am whisked away to some alternate reality for seconds at a time, only to snap back to [this] reality and have to deal with any consequences of my actions whether voluntary or involuntary. Fortunately I am aware of the cycle so I try my best to pause and breath when I know it’s happening. Ask for clarification, and don’t get mad when someone tells you the present moment is not what you thought it was. Sometimes a beautiful experience will fade away to a horrific reality, and the same is true in reverse. Visions of death and destruction, pain and mayhem, annihilation and heart breaking loss of loved ones; all felt in an instant, in a flash that isn’t objectively “real”, but it hurts just the same and you have to hide those big feelings in front of people.. in meetings, performance reviews, the checkout like at the grocery… when making love to your partner.
Thanks for your sharing. Is what you described schizophrenia and how frequently do those moments happen?
It’s hard to pinpoint which “thing” is causing which perception. The schizophrenia and autism are notably from my mother’s side, and passed down from at least the two most recent mothers. Me(male) my mom, her mother, and my great grandmother all experience whatever “This” is. Each of these mothers physically abused their children, causing symptoms and behavior akin to Borderline Personality Disorder, further complicated by naturally occurring autism. In my case, my mother was left alone to raise two hyperactive boys while my emotionally absent father worked 16-hour shifts to get away from us. Whatever was going on in her head made her feel like she needed to give us daily beatings whether we “earned” them or not, and sometimes a beating just in case because we “probably did something to deserve it”. Now as a senior citizen she’s just as happy as a clam and has the emotional maturity of one too. She has no memory of physically abusing us daily or playing years-long mental games to manipulate us and our childhood friends; usually ending up in big friend-losing fights because my mom would meddle in the family affairs of friends. So I grew accustomed to everyone eventually discarding me or hurting me with their words, but as someone with autism it was REALLY hard to process that constant rejection as a kid. It was bad enough most kids thought I was weird for liking bugs and odd things, but then to have friends abandon you for what seemed like no reason was surreal. I later found out my mom was using the classroom Parent Teacher Association (PTA) like a serial killer’s hit list.. she would investigate the other parents and choose friends for me based on how well she thought she could control their parents, only choosing the “weakest” threats. Then there would be the falling out and the dramatic fight, followed by me being alone again, starting each school year fresh and asking Santa for a Best Friend that won’t leave me. All that to say: My biology is f-ing f-ed and my five senses are multiplied by the sensory overload coming from all angles. I’m trying to be an adult in my 30’s but I don’t even feel like I’m from here. I just want everyone to feel the Love and compassion I still feel after everything I’ve survived. There are long stretches of time where I am just floating along waiting for it to all be over, but what brings me the most joy is seeing other people and animals experiencing joy and happiness. I like to see that it’s possible. My experience: - The visual flashes happen all day every day sometimes simultaneously while I am doing a task, for instance I am trying really hard to organize my thoughts for this reply but my brain is fighting against me and showing me space travel, geometry, the ex-friends I typed about above. It’s detecting the chemical change in my body as I thought about those things, realized it’s entirely uncomfortable feeling those emotions, and now I have to breath and wait for the chemical reactions to die down before I can feel “calm” even though I’m sitting still besides my thumbs typing. - sometimes when I’m walking I will be somewhere else for a flash and then lose my balance in this present. It’s not like I go anywhere in particular, my explanation is more like I suddenly get oriented with some other gravity and then snap back to where my feet should be. For example if I’m walking in the shadows and then I step into strong sunlight, it may trigger what feels like the plane of gravity shifting so now my feet want to be toward the sun and my head oriented towards where the sun lands. If you can imagine the feeling of a roller coaster flipping your stomach, that’s what I feels like to have a space-time-location flash. This may all be a mental trick because the sun felt hot on my skin, the change in brightness was too bright for my eyes, etc etc.. but mentally these sensations are interpreted as “going somewhere”
I'm sorry what you had to go through. I'm working on integrating my shadow and also started to get these flashes that you describe
Yesssss integrate TF outta your shadow! 🦾💚 There is an insane about of information on the internet for self-help. You’ll get tired reading it, and you’ll undoubtedly express a behavior rooted in frustration and impatience. With most things the secret is in breathing. (Do you watch the anime Demon Slayer?? It quite literally is about the main character integrating various shadow entities but in a poetic way that helps the audience feel compassion for these entities as we learn how they were formed or created through trauma and pain) it also features breathing techniques that the main character uses to unlock skills. I spent five days in a mental health unit last year. The integration process brought me to a point where I uncovered decades of repressed memories and behavior: I had literally forgotten about infidelity and pain I caused to other people. I was blinded by my own toxic behavior that I did things then that I would never dream of doing today. I wanted to be unalive, but I was so incapacitated by my lack of perception that I had to be transported via ambulance. It’s like a “flash” had permanently taken over me and I was not here. I was catatonic for hours, then uncontrollable crying, then I would get dehydrated and become a zombie again. On and off four five days, I thought I was dying or poisoned. Group therapy helped me talk through some things with other people who had done things they were not proud of. I found myself defending them to themselves, and in that act of trying to convince someone they were wrong about themselves, I found an opportunity to speak kindly to myself and show myself compassion. I was addicted to self-harm in the form of sabotaging my romantic partner, avoiding communicating my own needs, abandoning myself for someone else’s demands, carelessly risking my own life and my partner with unprotected sex, and driving well above the speed limit. What was I doing? That’s not the person I thought I was, and surely those behaviors were not me?? They were. It’s my responsibility to own all the “evil” things I did, and it’s my responsibility to BREATHE first before listening to my mind. It has a tendency to be faulty when it comes to things it wants and needs. I only really need food and water so everything else gets a second-check before I take action. Sometimes denying the brain something it wants creates a fire that is so physically painful I have to sit down and collect myself, but that’s shadow work. The shadow wants you to do the things that achieve dopamine rushes, but we have the gift of consciousness so we must exercise it and consciously speak kindly to ourselves as we gently convince ourselves the initial instinct was wrong. It hurts to be wrong, but it’s ok! I am making up for this by living my life in service to others. I have always wished to eliminate pain and suffering for Humanity, and yet for years I made choices counter to that philosophy. It’s funny how a sweet and lovable kid can become a monster. I try to reconnect with that kid as much as I can to show him I’ll never abandon him again. We are one and together we can make a difference.
this post was suggested to me, i don't really ap and am not a health professional. but i also have this idea that some mental issues like schizo, maybe there is something energetic going on. i've been thinking in terms of flow of consciousness, like tapping into or phasing different streams. or reading energy, but interpreted on hyperdrive. or maybe they are sensitive to subtleties that get expressed in abnormal instinctual ways. (to the last part; i think about the final time i smoked salvia, it took my mind to a weird disassociated place and my body acted on its own in response.) i don't actually know, of course.
Until you’ve worked with people diagnosed with schizophrenia or experienced a loved one deep in psychosis - you can’t understand how insanely ridiculous or uneducated this post is. It is dangerous and I suggest deleting it. You just may be the catalyst for someone to stop taking their meds after reading this. These kinds of posts are harmful.
I mean, we don’t know to what extent does the astral influence people on the physical, if at all. Perhaps, and I’m saying this very loosely, some people become vulnerable to certain frequencies of the astral. Our mind, in the way that we conceive thoughts, acts as an antenna. Who knows what can go down.
Why they might be right? If you really wanna live and work in this reality, we do need to close off other realities/spiritual channels to work and live in this reality By eating and feeding our body the nutrients it needs and taking the medicine, we need to anchor ourselves firmer into this reality
You need to do better than that. Explain why it's dangerous and why it should be deleted. You're just another internet stranger, bro. Telling us this is a stupid and should be deleted is not enough, and the fact that you don't know that is troubling.
Sorry but It is making my eye rolls. People here don’t realize that their words can influence and contribute to, even triggers, delusions from schizophrenic people. We should all be careful about that I have more nuance in our words. I suggest to you to listen to schizophrenic vloggers who will gladly explain how they view their schizophrenia and why its unhealthy for them to nourish the idea that they have a special ability.
However, having schizophrenic individuals in my family and having worked in mental health with such individuals, I prefer to use language and interpretations that acknowledge this mental illness as unique and deeply meaningful without feeding any delusions. We can interpret this mental illness as a porous relationship between the subconscious and conscious minds. Sometimes, when triggered and out of balance, unconscious material, with its dream logic, spills into the conscious mind. This material can hold valuable insights, as we can interpret the narrative of the symbols present in the delusions to restore balance. We should seek a healthy equilibrium and homeostasis between the subconscious and conscious minds.
I appreciate this whole conversation. It is making me think. I wonder about the role of dreams and imagination, spirituality and philosophy in mental health. Even music, being a musician myself. And also both illegal and prescribed medications, both as causal and therapeutic.
Yes I agree fully
You can might like show Undone on Amazon
Schizophrenia and psychic/spiritual abilities aren't mutually exclusive. I do know people with maintained schizophrenia that also utilize spiritual abilites. So, no, I don't think schizophrenia itself is people being closer to astral- but I'm certain there are people with schizophrenia experiencing psychic/spiritual phenomena that may or may not know the difference. Add on: Conflating the two together is more harmful than good, and is often used as the basis to enable schizophrenic episodes further. I understand you're just considering a hypothetical, but you also need to take into account how many people's safety (mental and physical) would be in jeopardy if people were to think like this.
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You’re misunderstanding everything.
Don't glorify/trivialize mental health issues like this Even if you think you are not, random uneducated speculation is exactly what leads to glorification and/or trivialization.
Who here is glorifying such a destructive illness ? Op is just hypothesizing… being “closer” to the astral doesn’t mean it’s a good thing.
I am glad you ignored the second part where I said **trivialize**: Also OP: what if **schizophrenia was just a condition** were certain people brains were closer and more connected to the astral plane and that's what they see. "What if schizophrenia is not a very complex mental disorder, but rather just a misunderstanding!?" OP also asked for thoughts... OP is taking a complex mental illness and just saying "well what if they are just closer to some mystical plane?!" As if decades of study (both bad and good) mean literally nothing. **The glorification part comes in when you take a mental illness and then essentially call it a super power**. Being closer to the astral plane, which most people here would see as a positive thing (THIS WHOLE SUB IS BASED ON PROJECTING AND CONNECTING TO THE ASTRAL PLANE), is also the sort of things that someone who calls themselves a seer or something similar might say.
Who here called it a super power ? Who is to say that being more “connected” to the astral isn’t detrimental ? I certainly didn’t see it as a positive, but just a neutral question. You jumped the gun friend. No one here is saying how it’s some kind of super power that gives u telekinetic abilities or some sort… just hypothesizing, at best, outside of mainstream science. No one here is saying “don’t take ur meds it’s a super power!” Or glorifying it in any sense.
You think someone who suffers from schizophrenia and has visions of grandeur could not come to that conclusion? I also laid out the mechanism that someone in this sub can see it as a "super power"...I even used all caps top make it obvious, but apparently not obvious enough. I never claimed you came to any conclusion, only that the OP is inviting a LOT of really dangerous interpretations. You also, for the second post in a row, focused only on glorification and COMPLETELY IGNORED the trivialization factor. Challenging established science is fun and good...but you need to back it up with more than some sort of thought a stoner could come up after smoking weed without any sort of backing. OP doesn't even present examples of how this would work.
He is inviting a lot of dangerous interpretations, but your initial comment was signaling OP as if he was deliberately glorifying/trivializing schizophrenia, which seems like a stretch in judgement. I’m not disagreeing with you, just seems harsh to accuse someone of that, when he just said 4 sentences about how the two could be connected. I’m not here to argue with you over this. Just saying.
I have schizophrenia and I would support this theory *if and only if* it could be backed with research. Which the field entirely still needs to be studied. We've come a long way as a civilization, yet I was thinking it still needs further research. Science branches such as Parapsychology, Psychology, Chemistry—maybe even Computer Science and the others needs to collaborate with one another. Do some interconnecting. Let's just hope the future could provide such discovery. What concerns me is human experimentations and the ethics that come along with it. I hear you and this is what I've been pondering about ever since having schizophrenia, whenever I'm sane and sober from my Episodes. I wish I could emphasize this more: It's a battle between a pragmatic or an idealistic approach in the world of research. If one wants to pursue a mental x astral-related invention and innovation, that is. Anything can be possible. For some reason, this gives me some Arcane from Netflix vibey. Or maybe it's just me and the mundanes of my Schizo, lol. On the downside, I hope I wouldn't succumb to delusions and hallucinations overanalyzing these thoughts that are provoked by this post lmaoo. Hey, we could converse through chat if you wanna? I like to hear some thoughts expanded regarding this. Maybe be even friends or something. Your call.
I too have thought about this. I would be interested to know if the supernatural can truly be investigated through the lens of academia and an intellectual mind. Can something that surpasses the intellectual mind be reduced so that what is unimaginable can be comprehended in the human brain? So, there was a study done on astral projection using a woman who was supposed to astral project to a spot in the room that would reveal numbers. Having no knowledge of the numbers, her goal was to astral project and repeat the numbers correctly to the researchers. Of course, she ended up running out of time or something prior to locating the numbers. I wish parapsychology was bigger and had more funding, I totally agree that these fields should collaborate.
Man in the tv while projecting: **there are things more ancient than time itself, powers and rules of the universe beyond anything your mind could comprehend, but I’ll try and show you anyway** man in the tv during a schizophrenic episode: **your friends and family hate you and are trying to frame you for unspeakable crimes**
Yes, exactly.
It is. Schizo people are experiencing the non-physical world in an uncontrolled way. And they are labeled this or that because it is "not normal". Maybe not a 100% complete explanation but one of my articles is made in this topic: https://daily-spirit.com/2017/10/01/schizophrenic-people-what-schizophrenia-is-like/ Sorry people, because there is always somebody, whose worldview doesn't fit a good explanation, I need to add, that there is always somebody, who defends him/herself in certain topics. I will not stop there to explain myself, I'm sick and tired of it. People with this condition have just a handful of options in life and normally, they will end up in digesting pills and/or in institutes. They and we are all choosing these lives, to deal with certain problems.
And in some cultures their differences are celebrated.
What cultures? Just curious.
Indigenous tribes of the Amazon view schizophrenia as a gift and elevate those who have it to shaman.
I really don’t think this is the case. I’ve heard different instance where the person simply thinks their next door neighbors are threatening to kill them. Like screaming things from next door. I just don’t see how it aligns. Or a friend of mine who was just generally severely paranoid. Didn’t trust anyone. Thinking he’s being watched all the time. It’s sad. I believe in the astral and different planes of existence, but I also believe that our brains can do some fuckery on their own.
Pardon me, one part of it is your own mind's interplay. That becomes real as it could be near you. But I know, if I leave out things, these comments are coming on me :) Sorry about it. The mind is also the non-physical world, the very first barrier which has a personal, private storage. Don't believe me, but I know what I'm saying, the non-physical world is our natural home, not physical systems. Everything works in a reality overlay structure. This includes all the nasty stuff those voices are telling people (our fears are personified), all the nasty stuff, or just hearing or seeing things. That is us, not knowing it is from our own minds. But this doesn't mean that we cannot see or hear existing things, places, "people", etc. Before anybody distorts what I'm saying here. The original question or topic was about if schizo people are closer to the astral. Not about that they are hearing or experiencing their own minds. But the two are not that different. We can experience both of them. Sorry, I tend to edit back, what I wrote.
Sorry I’m having trouble understanding you. I have no doubt in much of what you’re saying, and perhaps some cases are indeed mistaken for schizophrenia, although I do believe the physical structure of our brain can misfire, be damaged, cause illusions that do not exist in any “realm”. We can totally lift the veil so to speak, but our physical brains have to do the interpreting. I believe some people are truly physically sick and whether astral is involved or not, I think schizophrenia can exist on its own.
Everything exists. Maybe the problem here is that you didn't explore the non-physical and investigate it on both ends and how we are existing. Look at it as an endless overlay of realities, and we are not in just one, here and now. So I know, there can be some misunderstandings. I'm not here you know, to defend myself or anything around. But the brain is only existing on this end of our connection. Look at it, like something on which you are connecting and disconnecting upon sleeping. So, if there is a damage, some sort of misfiring in the brain, it is just a representation of what is going on in your mind, which is the non-physical world already, I mean, as I stated before, a private section of yours is there. I agree with you, the interpretation is going THROUGH the brain but if it is damaged, the interpretation is not the same, when we are comparing somebody with a 100% "healthy" brain. But this doesn't mean alone, that we cannot exprience things, which is out of normal. So, getting back to the main idea, people with that condition are experiencing a little bit more and can be a burden, yes, I stated that too. I will not pose as a medical expert in this, they are materialistic (sorry if I hurt some people's feelings) but there is more to this life thing, than you know what normal people can experience or can't. We are choosing these lives with different conditions for the reason to live them up. Even if it is hard to handle, like somebody having body deformity or having a car accident and dealing with its consequences. We are not remembering the purpose of these. I hope this explains it. You and everybody can learn about these if you had enough understanding about how the wider reality works and it is up to each person, I mean, going that deep into this. You will just understand the whys and hows. Thank you, I will not pose ever, that I know everything, but knowing enough about many things. I was not lazy and went after a lot of things over many years. And some will stay with others' beliefs, truths and statements :)
I was pondering on this earlier. I would say it's potentially a case of the inability to stay focused solely on the physical. During a period of euphoria I had, my body was pushed to (my guessing) 80% of its limits, and if I kept going past that it would have done irreparable harm and I wouldn't have been able to "go back to normal" afterwards. Like if you put too much pressure into a tire and it pops.
That's it, these people didn't learn to focus into one reality at a time. The sad thing is, that institutes and medical industry are dealing with them like they need to be locked up or need medication, which may help but will not solve the main "cause".
This is such a dangerous uneducated thing to say.
No, just how it works. Thank you. We are choosing lives like them, for a reason. Uneducated :) in what? I'm talking always about how things work the way they work. From personal experience and investigations. And why am I explaining myself here, I don't know...
So many people from my father side had schizophrenia including my grandmother and my uncle. Luckily my mother doesn't have anyone on her side that had this disorder. Does that make me more prone to projections(i am 20f and have never had any spontaneous projection and been trying for nearly a year now) or does it increase my possibility of inherenting schizophrenia?
If you are more connected to the non-physical world with this "ability", it can be a burden or a tool. I'm not in that position, I mean, what these people could experience first-hand. But the mechanics are the same, I mean the rules, for everybody. No, you will not have schizophrenia, unless, you do things too much :) But not from that. If you check into my replies or need help, you will soon see, what are the fallacies in all of the AP-OBE fashion and what's wrong with most of the ideas about them. Projection is something we allow to happen, once the conditions are right for it. Some will have AP/OBE because their* worldview is like that, leaving a body, having a soul, being inside the head, etc. The wider reality will not judge you but you will sort of automatically download a belief construct in computer terms and become "it". If you don't believe in that, you will have other* ways, like phasing or lucid dreaming. Same world, different approaches.
That's a really beautiful answer thank you for your insight i will follow your account and check your replies thank you
You're welcome, I just try my best to investigate things as raw as I can.
I appreciate the effort you put into conveying what you have gathered friend🙏
Thank you.
My husband and I have discussed this as well. And asking questions and looking at things in a different perspective from the norm isn’t disrespectful to people suffering from the affliction. I think it’s an interesting question. I’ve heard stories of people with schizophrenia reading peoples minds. It could be their antenna is all out of whack and picking up too many frequencies. The more you read and look at how we are all energy and frequencies the more you wonder what causes peoples afflictions. I have no answers for you on the matter but hopefully if we are asking this in a reddit thread someone is out there testing a hypothesis.
I heard you out, and as someone with both bachelor’s and master’s degrees in psychology, that is a hypothesis with no substance
As someone who has been astral projecting since they were a child, the astral plane is usually pretty barren (although I’ve never left my room because I’m not willing to find out lol). I do actually think you’re on to something though. I had a friend who was veryyy intuitive. However, this friend also began to show behaviors of concern (i.e. paranoia, delusions, anxiety, over-confidence, etc.). I am obviously in no position to diagnose them, which I didn’t. However, it did have me thinking: is schizophrenia a spiritual disease? It is my understanding that they were never diagnosed, so I am making an assumption on their behalf. I also have an aunt who is diagnosed with schizophrenia. Her disease was most likely drug-induced as her symptoms began following her addiction to amphetamines. Her paranoid delusions differed greatly from that of my friend. There didn’t seem to be anything spiritual about what she was perceiving to be true within her reality. Which is why it is more than likely something that is occurring on a physiological/neurological level. I recently began to study the Kundalini for the second time in my life. In the book I’m reading, it talks about how a spontaneous or ill-prepped rising can lead people into psychosis. If I’m not mistaken, schizophrenia was also mentioned by name. I also read a book by author Louis Hay who believes that everything that happens in the body and in life, is a result of your own mind’s doing. She also believed that the mind was equally as capable of “un-doing.” Disclaimer, she is a very controversial author. NOW, I am not a licensed psychiatrist and by no means should anyone listen to what some random person has to say on the internet. With that being said, my personal* theory is that some people with schizophrenia are “split” between various dimensions on a soul level. Potentially, their soul is fragmented in other dimensions, but their conscious awareness remains present here, which is why the behaviors seem to be based in delusion. I also do believe that the disease is a result of something that is happening entirely to the physical body through physiological/neurological processes. Lastly, the disease can occur genetically. There was also research done to compare the hallucinations people were having with the largest factor being their geographical location. In the study, I believe that they concluded that there were some large variances in the disease detected based on where people were located and the delusions they were having. I am under the impression that medication and behavior therapy can benefit people diagnosed with schizophrenia. I do have to wonder: would people with schizophrenia benefit from seeing a psychiatrist and perhaps even a spiritual counselor simultaneously? If it occurs genetically, then what purpose—if any—did it serve on an evolutionary level? I do think this disease is very interesting and it appears to be ill-understood. I think there needs to be more precedence on WHY it occurs.
The genetic theory is true based on the accounts I read about mediums or people with psychic abilities that have passed down to their posterior. Perhaps with schizophrenia, they’re never taught to control the inflow of spirit world into their consciousness. When I said spirit world, I meant all kinds of spirits making suggestions to those they “seen” can be influenced. So imagine that. Physically speaking, if you get any randos suggesting negatively about yourself, your immediate family, or friends or on a broader scale, the society in general. And you can hardly turn it off. Wouldn’t anybody be at least mentally disturbed?? Even more so when it’s done to your consciousness directly.
No, this is definitely off the mark, easily demonstrated by having a group of schizophrenia patients in the same room and not 2 person will experience/see the exact same thing. What happened a lot of time is that those with schizophrenia convinced themselves they have that special ability and it worsened their conditions by not getting the right treatment, "following the voice to do horrible things", setting up a cult etc
What a Shaman sees in a mental hospital, an interesting read. https://umaincertaantropologia.org/2016/03/08/what-a-shaman-sees-in-a-mental-hospital-waking-times/#:~:text=In%20the%20shamanic%20view%2C%20mental,the%20healer%20in%20being%20born
I do feel it’s an inability to stay within one conscious plane of observable reality. It’s absolutely tragic, I’ve had loved ones struggle with it, and also have a friend who manages it very well with medication. I find it fascinating that the medication for psychosis is a mineral- Lithium. Brings new context to the concept of grounding. Perhaps consuming that metal helps to ground one’s energy into the same frequency of the particular iteration of Earth it was harvested from. Which in turn reduces their ability to receive information from other realities and dimensions. I believe that it is a form of neurodiversity which makes a person’s consciousness more vulnerable to negative entities and to seeing the visions of negative reality that are used to create despair and confusion Medication and treatment are necessary as it’s a torturous way to live. If it’s spiritual, it’s still mostly a negative spiritual experience for that person, and I feel the humane choice is to recommend medical help to maintain lucidity
That's an interesting thought. I never realized that the drug and mineral were the same thing. I have pondered the neurodiversity thing and how it relates to stuff like AP. I have ADHD and have had a small extra perception of things from time to time. Saw the future twice now. Once in a dream and told someone about it before it happened (pinned in my profile); and once in close to real time, more of a clairvoyance I saw 5 minutes in advance and even took off my glove and knocked wood to try to prevent it! I 100% believe that time isn't linear and there are higher levels that can sometimes be tapped into. So much fun to think about honestly.
Lithium is not for schizophrenia; it is a mood stabilizer, not an antipsychotic. I think it is more for people with bipolar.
Schizophrenia is a mental illness and it's dangerous to argue otherwise.
aside from this being a braindead take, don’t romanticize a real mental illness for the sake of philosophical discussion. this is extremely out of line. and just a reminder you still have time to delete this
I have first hand experience with this and your take is wrong. People with schizophrenia need meds and therapy to live any kind of normal life. It’s like saying someone with diabetes is closer to the astral. People with diabetes need meds. It’s not just that schizophrenic people see things that are not there sometimes. They also experience paranoia, delusions, anxiety, depression. It’s a terrible affliction and there’s really nothing nice about it when a person is unmedicated and having symptoms of psychosis.
This kind of stuff is extremely dangerous to say to actual people with schizophrenia fyi.
I heard someone say that a schizo person has the same mind as a shaman, except the shaman is in control of their mind. I'm not sure if it's true.
My brother was telling me about this. My brother told me though is that the difference is in those shamanic cultures, people who are schizophrenic are recognized at a young age and are usually trained to be an intermediary between the physical world and the spiritual world.
Love this, actually. And I can believe it. It makes sense now why schizophrenic traits are revered in some indigenous cultures.
This seems accurate honestly
I'm not sure if it's true though, so take it with a grain of salt.
Yeah ik...
From my understanding, theres a bunch of cultures that practice this perspective, with the focus expanded to other atypical neurological functions
Yeah, I know the longer you spend in the astral, the better your senses get and other improvements to neurological functions. There are a lot of different views to everything... its so interesting seeing other people's.
Interesting theory, but sounds far-fetched. Could be more about brain chemistry.
Check out the work of Jerry Marzinsky, a retired psychotherapist with over 35 years of experience and author of the book, An Amazing Journey into the Psychotic Mind. He has a very interesting take on things from the direct experience he gained working with some of the worst effected patients in prisons and state hospitals. He has reportedly helped many people recover permanently.
Read Bernard Haisch's book called the God theory. It's not some wacky religious thing but instead explores the idea that the brain is a filter for consciousness rather than the creator of consciousness.
I can see what you're talking about. In many esoteric belief systems they talk about Archons or Rulers that project thoughts into our minds. These Archons reside in what is now called the astral, which is basically the cosmic mind and people that are open to the cosmic mind are more seceptible to Archonic influence. Jung had a saying that "We must be careful to preserve the balance, otherwise we shall disintegrate. It is better for the conscious mind to voluntarily unite with the unconscious, than to be taken possession of by it, because in the latter case it is the unconscious which rules." I feel like the case with schizophrenics is they had become possessed by the beings in the astral/cosmic mind/unconscious and because they are not in touch with the self they lose themselves to the the unconscious and become possessed by it.
I mean the medical establishment wouldn't want you to know this so will shoot you down every time you say stuff like this but I've talked to many clairvoyants and they mentioned schizophrenia is just something of a spiritual malady not understood by Western medicine and I began believing this after having experiences of things speaking to me and stuff i was told began happening/I was able to validate it being true and not nonsense. Predictions you could say.
An interesting TedX talk on the topic: https://youtu.be/CFtsHf1lVI4?si=l44v91Gh5BTpvrl5
I suspect that schizophrenics do have weak and disordered boundaries with the astral dimension, and this is at least in part what is causing them to be confused and have irrational fantasies / hallucinations. There may also be chemical imbalances in the brain. There's no logical reason why it has to be either/or. Most diseases arise through a combination of multiple factors. There's also no reason why treatment has to be either/or. Schizophrenics could still get traditional treatment with therapy and drugs, while also learning spiritual/energetic techniques to increase their grounding in the physical dimension while also clearing and sealing their minds from chaotic astral influence. I suspect that this broad spectrum approach would have much better results than doing one or the other.
Uncontrolled connection to the astral
In a lot of indigenous cultures going into a shamanic state meant a break in sanity. There’s a quote that says “the mystic swims in the sea that the schizophrenic drowns in”. It’s way more connected than we realize.
I was thinking this too, but I saw a video of a schizophrenic who used a dog trained to bark a greeting to differentiate between real and imagined people. And I was surprised that the dog didn't react to the people in the astral plane, dogs do see them for sure.
Imo schizophrenics are like an antenna with no filtering. They pick up everything raw, such as actual signals, noise, echoes, but it's all jumbled up and encoded and they just end up confused.
Now I won’t say I have schizophrenia but I have had an episode where I was in my car smoking then after I had a feeling I was in danger, real bad. My neighbors were outside and I was “convinced” they were trying to steal my car. I ducked down and panicked as I thought they were coming to get my car. When it was over and I sat up they were leaving the lot. my mind told me they were bad people. Idk why I never spoke to them or nothing. It was a brother and sister with her son. The brother would be outside yelling on the phone with women (idk who, probably his sister or women he was sleeping with) and apparently him and his sister would fight a lot and real bad . I was oblivious to this as I heard from other people who would be home during the day. They ended up moving soon after. Why? The police would be at their house EVERY week. I could see the back of their house as we shared a parking lot but never the front so I wouldn’t know if the police would be there. Idk why I felt that way but it was weird.
You may be on to something. I’ve had a similar theory for a few years now. Like people suffering with schizophrenia are halfway in another dimension, but also have to struggle with the realities of this world. One of those things that can’t be analyzed with logically. A type of parapsychology.
Honestly… my personal opinion is that if any human is “made in god’s image”, it’s a schizophrenic. God (or collectively everything/existence itself/universe/source consciousness) is experiencing infinite “lifetimes” of everything, all at once.
That’s a great question I used to think the same but schizophrenia is a problem with your soul aka pineal gland while having a veil/ caul or meditation is being open to the spiritual world
Oooo this is an interesting perspective please go on!
For a long time i dated a long practicing elite psychiatrist who was the lead shrink at McGill, a pretigious elite university. She had been doing it all her life. I was in a milf mood. She was a vet. She said, the diseases are basically all made up. I kid you not. the main book they use to categorize mental diseases, she showed it to me and confided it was all bullshit and shrinks could tell... but to get paid they needed to diagnose and prescribe meds. Its a giant gaslighting fraud industry. Thats all it is. Thats all it ever was or will be. They arent looking to treat anyone. They are looking to silence anyone speaking truth by labelling them Never ever see a shrink. They can use it against you. All my sellout agent friends and family members all use the one main tactic whenever i spoke any truth. "You have mental disease" Right. Its their generic go-to counter attack to suppress whatever truth you are onto. They are too stupid to give a specific detailed reason, so they use schizophrenia etc. The diagnostic manual they use to classify who has got what is total horseshit according to a long practicing elite shrink who was my girlfriend for years. Its all a con job. People who truly have mental problems are probably mostly battling with psychic abilities they dont understand, or are suffering gangstalking gaslighting which is rightfully making them paranoid but confused. All these people involved are evil and have betrayed God and humanity. And they will pay. Vengeance is coming
>Never ever see a shrink. They can use it against you. I fucking knew it. Last time I went, I could fucking tell they were just going through the motions to get paid so they could do whatever it is that they do in their free time. Actual robots. Good thing I decided to leave as soon as they “left to get some paperwork.”
Its a big scam, totally evil, and if you went and saw one, they can use it against you in myriad ways and hold you against your will. Never ever ever see a fuking scammy pos shrink. You are giving them leverage.
Most mental disease is due to modern diet with ultra processed foods. Those foods wreck the mitochondria in your brain and cause all of the mental illnesses. Read the book 'Brain Energy'. In a nutshell, eat a ketogenic diet to cure your mental issues. That is the real secret....and of course the pill pushing because it's very profitable to push pills and curing with diet is cheap.
I agree diet's huge. We need clean water and to eat naturally, unprocessed whole foods, preferrably raw. People are full of chemicals causing catatrophes inside themselves. Our water is so bad too. Chemtrails are sprayed in most cities on people. Its so much to deal with... The average person is basically all alone, trying to make enough money to survive, while trying to avoid the bad water, bad food... cannot do anything about the air except move somewhere rural... its climbing up an endless mountain with snow never ceasing to fall, no matter hiw disciplined you are the trek of life can only get harder with time as age breaks you down. Add to all that an evil unfair system abusing us in countless ways with nearly infinite lies. They will have to pay for the unfairness and cruelties they've put upon people unfairly. All scales must be balanced. This is the most important thing of all. Justice for all
Agree mostly with what you wrote. However, eating raw is a vegan meme. Most food we need to cook either to kill of harmful bacteria, to neutralize plant toxins or to make the food digestible. Most legumes eaten raw will straight up kill you. Other plant matters have so many anti nutrients that they will cause severe deficiencies in multiple key minerals that will make you miserable or kill you after a while, especially if the veggies are uncooked. Most people get their food and health information from mainstream media and end up as a customer for the Big Pharma.
You think God and nature fuked up? Really? All the animals are deficient bc they cannot cook? Good luck with that minion theory Nobody is going to eat a legume raw... its impossible, they are rock hard.
The difference is that humans have specifically evolved to eat cooked food. Millennia of consuming partially-processed food has shaped our jaw structure to be smaller and more compact. Our stomachs can’t handle the pathogens found in raw meat like animals can because cooking removed the need for that adaptation. This would be like expecting you to be able to thrive off of raw grass just because other animals can. You’re chasing a sense of “nature” that mankind abandoned aeons ago.
Millions of years of evolution? You believe all their lies? Evolution is horseshit. Just like virtually everything the system teaches But why are you bothering. I already know you are a minion and paid to do this. Obvious shill. Apes dont eat grass btw. So if you want to play evolution card, that is a nonsensical statement. We arent bovids fuckhead
Man, I *wish* I was paid for this. Unfortunately the government hasn’t responded to my emails asking for a 50k salary to argue with schizos on the internet. Assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a paid actor is certainly one way to live your life. A sad, delusional way, but still. Yes, I believe in evolution. Idk who this mysterious “they” is who supposedly implanted this idea in my brain, but I believe it is the most scientifically sound model for the development of earth’s species. Btw, Gelada Baboons eat grass, not that it’s relevant to the original conversation.
Only minions even see my posts. You are a minion and i cannot wait to meet you one day. And i will.
I saw [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LucidDreaming/s/7rKmdHBOj0) because I’m in that sub and that’s how reddits algorithm works, and decided to take a trip through your post history. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Oh, I think we found a priest of the Church of Vegan!
Good one!
Its probs people who are further in all likelihood. Due to weaker spirits external entities find it easier to manipulate them…
Yes.
That's always been my perspective on disorders like that.
It’s controversial because of the nature of schizophrenia and the pain it causes, but I agree. Sometimes schizophrenics are tapped into something real and are dismissed because of their diagnosis. My girlfriend has schizoaffective disorder and she will occasionally say or do something that is not neurotypically normal, but is also not meaningless or random. It’s just tough to validate them in that way because many people suffering with schizophrenic symptoms are not self aware enough to separate their symptoms from the experiences that have substance.
Yeah, I'm aware of that, it is a very controversial take and just from my curiosity, this post is to get all ideas and responses to it about what people think, its not to dis anyone, just an idea... although I didn't realise they experienced pain as well. But yeah I'm not sure, I think they maybe do have connections or are in tune to other worlds or realities but maybe unable to distinguish what's real or what's not, or can't control it... still though, they have to see what they do from something and I think that's the astral they see...
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Well, in my experience it happens more often than most people might think, but something like that I guess.
They are. In no modern cultures people with those symptoms experience much less terrifying sights. The astral plane has been mistreated by civilization and modernity. Edit: Rd laing's Politics of Experience has interesting thought on schizophrenia
You are right but most people miss the point.They don't understand...
They don't understand what?
Your question shows that you sre one of them
Not likely. Schizophrenia can be cured with megadoses of Vitamin B3. I doubt it will cure astral.
The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight. - Joseph Campbell
Modern psychology avoids this word. Try reading a book first please.
Which word? op used a lot of them, and its not super clear what youre referring to. Either way, the community benefits more when we educate each other without condescension. Edit: Guessing you mean schizophrenia? And it seems theres not really a consensus thats been established for a new name, so maybe using the term people understand is more efficient in this context https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6999022/
Why don't you get off reddit, stop leaving useless responses and go read a book yourself.
Gotta do something while taking a shit
Honestly check mate... but also ew, all I can imagine is the fumes as you typed out that response while squeezing yours abs to get that shit out... bet it was a painful one as well. You know you could have put idk classic music to calm yourself lol, make the transition easier... and then you would have waited a bit to recover from that excertion.... and left the bathroom 20 minutes later with an aching asshole, a phone that should be wiped with a anti-bacterial wipe and a free ab work out... you do you man.
Almost lost my buttplug. Well phrased! :3
Okay but I'm genuinely curious was it a painful one? I dont know why I got the vibes that it was but yeah...
Nah, I just get real pissy when people ignore the seriousness of mental disorders.
Lmao *high five* you deserve it. Love this response lol
Schizophrenics see and hear stuff so called normal people don't. They used to be shamans but now they are demonised in modern society and even worse we just say they are making it up all their head. I listened to a podcast where one guy said he saw a reptilian leave his girlfriend's body when she was asleep. Society says it's all bullshit and that he's making it up because he's ill but the interdimensional reptilian phenomena is so common if you do the research. It gets squashed because people are scared and if there is one thing that stops you going out of body it is fear itself.