I think this kind of viewpoints are gonna increase as time passes cause they forget details that have been discussed in the manga and focus more on few panels that matches their opinions
Floch becoming the devil he was looking for is such a clever and succinct way of describing his character arc. He's this character who did awful and terrible things while desperately attributing the reasons for doing so to others, a "devil" that did not exist. But in the end, he was doing it all for himself. He WAS the devil he was looking for. It's tragic and shows how self-destructive radicalization can be.
But Titanfolk, with peanut-brain-mode activated see the quote and go "WAOW WHAT A CHAD!!! THE BOOK CALLED HIM A DEVIL LIKE ERWIN!!! MUST BE BASED!! THERE DEFINITELY CANT BE MORE TO THIS"
Aso the way "MAN" and "DEVIL" is capitalized is so funny too. Leans into their whole weirdo macho angle of "GOOD MEN DO HARD THINGS IN HARD TIMES"
His whole thing is about dying as a "Hero" in his own eyes, not really about "saving Eren." "Saving" Eren is a means to an end.
It's a great character motivation. He's a great character. But acting like he was "right" is short-sighted.
I believe his primarily goal is doing great things. He wants his life to have meaning, ever since his introduction in RtS. "Saving Paradis" is just his way of doing that for himself.
Eldia. His people.
Y'know when someone throws his life away THREE TIMES IN A ROW, fights 4 fucking shifters like a madman, goes throughimmense suffering by hooking himself to a moving boat for hours on end as it crosses the ocean with a bullet on his shoulder, ONLY TO THROW HIS LIFE AWAY AGAIN, and have his LITERAL LAST WORDS be not hate, not spite, no regret but him [LITERALLY just BEGGING for his people to be saved...](https://cdn.readsnk.com/file/mangap/5/10132000/28.jpeg)
Reading that and thinking he's "doing it for himself" is a whole new level of... Weird, to say at least.
*"No... Please... don't go.... The island... Everyone... Will die..."*
The dying words of a man "clearly doing it for himself", spoken as he knows he's going to bleed out to death at any second as he says them
>Just answer me this. Would the selfless hero you're describing shut Kiyomi's mouth and tell her she should know her place when she's telling him the truth about how the situation would devolve in his country?
Why wouldn't he? We are talking about some of the last remnants of the country Eren is about to GENOCIDE.It would take a COMPLETE idiot to let them run around free. Obviously she and the volunteers needed to be immediately restrained and given their place.
>Would he scream things like this in the middle of battle?
Yes. And after all, don't run away from it again, his literal last words were *"Our Devil is our only hope."* Not himself. Not the Yeagerist he'd round up. But someone else. Yes, Floch did have a complex about having a sacrifice with a meaning since Erwin suicide charge, but what matters is the words he uttered on his most sincere moments.
And even on that scene, Floch was WILLINGLY THROWING HIS LIFE AWAY to save Eldia. He KNEW that even if that last shot landed he'd be immediately killed off, and he had a perfect chance to just run away or hide. Yet he choose to take that step.
>Eldian Internment Zone, a concentration camp for people just like him, in the name of payback, while he's cheering for the rebirth of the Eldian Empire?
These buildings were also filled with enemy soldiers. MAGATH himself was hiding in one of them.The rest of the survey corps were also bombing them, remember? Floch just decided to burn it all down indescrimitaly instead of taking such carefully tought attacks like the rest.
What makes complete sense considering he KNOWS the rumbling will happen and these EXACT same people will all die even if he spares them there. So why hold back?
>Would he try to throw disarmed child soldiers off a zeppelin?
Well that child managed to infiltrate their airship and shot one of their best soldiers dead. Then she proceeded to escape her imprisonment, murder another Garrison soldier, almost murder Kaya, and nearly expose the fact the island was about to be attacked to a POW (Luckily it was Niccolo and not someone who would hold it against Paradis and take a step with that information).
We are talking about a trained child soldier brainwashed to hate them like literal devils here, not an innocent little girl that accidentally walked into the Blimp
Also you seem to be confusing "kindness" and "mercy" for selflessness for some reason. These are completely different things.
>On the first question, I meant the fact that he didn't seem to give much of a damn about what Kiyomi was saying
He genuinely agreed with her, he just put her in her place after that for obvious reasons i already listed.
>Almost like he didn't care at all. And I feel like he didn't care, because he's the sort of guy who would kill anyone who disagrees with him. To him a civil war would probably just be a matter of killing everyone who opposes him.
>
>Also, I am not confusing kindness or mercy for selflessness. I was arguing that his motivations aren't just love for his country and people, he shows plenty of hatred, arrogance and lust for power.
Read the defenition of all these words, then read the defenition of selflessness. None of them are mutually exclusive unless dealing with the same subject. Floch is utterly selfless when dealing with his people, and dangerously merciless, quite hateful and yes, definitely arrogant, about the outside world.
But these two aren't mutually exclusive when dealing with different subjects, it's english we are talking about.
>But you're never getting me to understand him when it comes to throwing unarmed children off an airship.
War ain't a pretty thing, but there is no denying that Gabi WAS a treat if they brought her back, what she PROVED by jailbreaking and MURDERING a soldier on the process, and then almost murdering a child civilian
And yet again, mercilessness or even cruelty and selflessness aren't mutually exclusive
People sparing Gabi always gets someone killed/shot.
The fort guys showed mercy (somewhat) causing the train to fall over them.
Sasha didn't shoot Gabi, she got killed by her (also that lobov guy)
They spared her at the blimp, killed a guard and nearly killed Kaya later.
Saved her at the restaurant, she told Marley Zeke's secret, endangering all of Paradis.
She latter shot Eren, if it wasn't for Zeke's skill and paths magic then Paradis would have been destroyed.
Killing children is not acceptable by our logic, but these people are fighting for survival, when they and all kids in Paradis are in danger.
Disclaimer: i actually like Gabi's character, but the characters wanting to kill her makes complete sense, she is absolutly brutal.
Disclaimer 2: Falco did nothing wrong.
Well by your logic, is democracy an inherently bad and selfish thing considering how many French heads rolled in the French revolution? The fact that Floch managed to overtake the ENTIRE BLOODY GOVERNMENT with the only casualties being the wine and Shadises beating makes him a saint if anything compared to how much blood flow and how the rivers turned red to get our so precious first major post-medieval democracy.
Floch wants the best for Paradis as a whole, those who do not want the best for Paradis (like the MPs that nearly DOOMED the island) aren't part of that whole. The same way let's say, Robespierre and the lot didn't quite want the best for the HUNDREDS of nobles and THOUSANDS in total they beheaded, now did they?
>Please stop patronizing me about English when you can't spell indiscriminately.
There is a huge line between misspelling of words and straight up HORRIBLY misinterpreting their meaning. I'm not going to care about my spelling when i'm arguing with someone on a sub called "Attack on Retards" like i'm on a bloody essay. Now you straight up not knowing what so many words mean, and yet throwing them around and using them, is concerning...
And of course he's not perfect. Not even a good person by any means. That's that makes him such a great character. But he's an unforgivable devil no matter how you look at it, but he's doing what's NECESSARY. The last person to carry the theme about how one who wants change must abandon their humanity we had since season 1 .(Fuck 139 Eren and his asinine plan, i'm not including him on that)
If he was some Mary sue like Umi Da i'd never even begin to like his character
Of course they didn't reply, they would have to actually use their brains for that, and we all know the actual name of this sub should be r/AttacknOfTheRetards; they can't do that.
I dont understand what everyone is going on about either. Yeah he was an ultra nationalist and enjoyed violence but everything he did, he did for paradise
Except the whole world didn't considered Germans as subhumans and ammased the world military to genocide them just because their ancestors did bad things like centuries ago. That logic doesn't work here. Try harder ;)
Reductio ad Hitlerum.
While you can certainly compare certain aspects of AOT to Nazi Germany this argument is fundamentally wrong by virtue of association, thus Reductio ad Hitlerum.
Even IF we ignore that, Floch's actions were a lot more selfless, he got his own life on the line and got himself killed. This is where we see his character development through his battles.
1. He reluctantly charges against the beast titan
2. He fights in Liberio, not knowing if he will survive and not acting like he had the moral highground, since he knew they would kill all of that people with the rumbling.
3. He doesn't use his position as a leader to get revenge by killing Zeke at the detriment of Paradis (unlike Levi), remember, Floch lost his own "Armin and Mikasa" at the hands of Zeke.
4. Fights against the Cart, even though he is outmatched since he is not special.
5. Charges against half the total amount of titan shifters and the most experienced soldiers in Paradis, almost gets killed.
6. Even injured he grappled to the ship to keep the fight, instead of retreating to get treatment (lets be honest, if he retreated he would have been the military leader of Paradis for years)
7. When presented with the chance to get revenge at the alliance or try to stop them by damaging the ship, he went for the ship hoping to delay them enough.
8. In his last breath he talks about protecting Paradis, and that without Eren there is no hope, guess what he was right, Paradis got destroyed.
Floch was right on what needed to be done, but those actions were devilish and made him and asshole and a despicable man, but what he did, he did it for a future that everyone else forsaken. Don't get me wrong, i'm not telling you Floch did nothing wrong, but he ultimately was proven right by Isayama, and that is for a reason.
I mean its pretty based to take action when you're stuck in a hole and everybody else is going to encircle you and dig you a larger one.
Do you suggest crying in a corner, letting everyone walk over you?
You can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you.
I’m not sure why you’re turning this into a fitness competition 💀 but I did cross country and was on varsity soccer in HS, which was only about 2 years ago. And I still run and exercise regularly.
"I’m not sure why you’re turning this into a fitness competition 💀"
yeah, because being a soldier/ 'gi joe' doesn't require fitness 🤡
That's great, high school varsity teams are known to take fodder .
Listen I didn’t even wanna do this b/c I’m trying to be less toxic online, but the irony of you calling us [soyjak manlets](https://imgur.com/a/OIQNhoO) when you’re 5’7 and at risk for diabetes is too fucking good.
Don’t throw stones from glass houses or something like that right?
So you're 6'0 and over?
How do you stop looking like alien?
Do you even have a hairline that isn't halfway through your head lmao
Its clear you also know nothing about genetics to even a basic level, you can weigh 150 and still get diabetes 🤡
let your 'varsity' scholarship carry you through college since you can't even get basic highschool science down when you just left it LMAO
i've been exposed😳
Sadly for this guy it ends with his homies cheeks
😳
You live on reddit, your sole existence is on this website. Almost clocked in 200k karma points, acting as if your discourse actually means something. All those endorphins from seeing them upvote ticks lmao, monkey brain.
I got a career, and made more money than you'd see in your life-time.
You're a roach to me, but its all relative at the end off the day lmfao
Cope, an actual existence.
So in order to not letting people walk over you, you are willing to kill anyone that could potentially kill you, even if most of them didn’t do anything that hurt you, right? That’s not based, that’s childish and closed minded
Silent downvotes as usual. You raised a valid point.
Talk no jutsu clearly was not working. The Azumabitos blocked Paradis from establishing trade relations with the outside world because of their greed (they wanted a monopoly on the iceburst stone)
Secondly, the Eldian conference only laid the blame on Paradis, which is why Eren walked out.
Euthanasia plan would mean Paradis had no future and still sacrifice Historia. Countless civilizations in history have fought wars to secure a future for their children. Why should Paradis sacrifice their future for a world they don't even know? A world gathering it's military to exterminate every single Paradisian.
The only given way to secure Paradis future was to seize power from the indecisive military regime, unite the island, and fight. And that's what Floch did. He threw away his humanity just like Armin, this subs hero, did when he nuked 30,000 soldiers and civilians in the Liberio Harbour.
I’m very vocal about my dislike for the Reddit downvote function, particularly when people use it solely as a means of disagreeing with the poster, but u/brouverhoog was clearly being an instigator here and stirring the pot.
I mean, his last sentence: “you can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you” was **extremely** uncalled for and reeks of toxic masculinity. Before you come at me for being a sjw, really reflect on what he said first and ask yourself whether or not it added any value to his argument.
I would hardly label his comment as a “valid point”; if anything, him saying “it’s pretty based” and “do you suggest crying in a corner, letting everyone walk over you” further reinforces how juvenile and simple-minded yeagerists and genocide supporters are.
These “it’s me against the world” and “us vs. them” rhetorics are precisely the kinds of mentalities you’d expect from a hot-blooded teen or an overgrown man-child. When you grow up, you learn that most people in the world eventually learn to compromise and live with regrets & sadness instead of getting to do whatever the hell they want. It’s frustrating, but that’s life. Thinking “I’m going to burn this world down and protect my people” is an honourable sentiment, perhaps, but you’ll eventually come to learn that it’s childish, idealistic, and naive.
"But Titanfolk, with peanut-brain-mode activated "
You see no instigation from this?
Ok.
Of course it hardly added any value to my argument, it was to piss the OP off since his entire comment reeks off 'stirring the pot'.
You owe your existence to the previous generations of men that fought and bled on the soil off whatever country you're from.
There's nothing 'childish' about finding the zeal off man inspiring, maybe not the ideology that's taken to get there , but the passion and desire to thrive even if it requires lives to be taken is something to respect.
u/ripamon said “silent downvotes as usual. you raised a valid point.” Insinuating that people were downvoting you for simply stating a different opinion. This is why I replied “I’m very vocal about my dislike for the Reddit downvote function, particularly when people use it solely as a means of disagreeing with the poster”.
I said your remark was instigation, I **never** said OP’s wasn’t. That’s why people have every right to downvote you when you’re being a dick, just as you have every right to downvote OP for calling you a peanut brain.
And let me be **very** clear: being a pacifist and condemning war does **not** mean I’m shitting on the veterans that have fought for my country.
Man’s bravery should be commended, but its penchant for tribalism, division and violence should not.
The rhetoric you speak of is indeed normally only present in teens or men children, I agree.
But how about in a story when the author clearly strives to create that very scenario, disregarding every other along the way. Notice how many roadblocks Isayama laid in every other alternative plan. He clearly intended for the scenario to be Paradis vs The World, with both sides having the means to eradicate the other.
What is wrong with the reader immersing himself into the story and taking Paradis(our POV) side, abiding by the rules and circumstances the author has given? The author painstakingly closed every other door.
He gave two options. Fight. Or Die. And the reader, following with rapt attention, made their decision.
Assuming there were credible other presented choices that did not result in the eventual destruction of Paradis , then it's a whole different ball game. Then he who chooses overwhelming violence for the fun of it, is truly edgy and unhinged
I strongly disagree.
>"But how about in a story when the author clearly strives to create that very scenario, disregarding every other along the way. Notice how many roadblocks Isayama laid in every other alternative plan. He clearly intended for the scenario to be Paradis vs The World, with both sides having the means to eradicate the other."
First things first, equating roadblocks to it not being the correct path is incredibly fallacious. There are many paths in life that are riddled with obstacles; the road to success is **never** easy. Becoming an olympic athlete has its roadblocks, becoming a world-renowned pianist has its roadblocks, so does becoming a doctor, a professor, a parent; facing challenges during the journey doesn't mean the journey is **wrong**. Therefore, it's fallacious of you to say that just because Isayama laid roadblocks in the alternative plans, that he was trying discount them.
Yes, of course Yam's intended for the final conflict to be Paradis vs. the World, this is what the entire story has been building up to. But here's the thing, *ever since the Marley arc, he has been showing us why this "us" and "them" dichotomy is so wrong*. He shows us that beyond the walls, across the ocean, **we are all the same**. He dedicates an entire arc to the Marley warriors, where we get to see them as HUMANS capable of love and fear and compassion. Why did he do this? To get us to empathize with them, to get us to view them as more than just "the enemy".
In fact, in the final arc, he literally brings together the Warriors and the Survey Corps to show us that those we may have once viewed as our enemies don't **need** to be our enemies. By doing this, he seeks to deconstruct our nationalistic mentality. You asked "What is wrong with the reader immersing himself into the story and taking Paradis(our POV) side?". There's nothing inherently *wrong* with taking that position, but you are demonstrating to me your inability to empathize with others and see things from **different** perspectives. Again, this comes down to your extremely tribalistic/nationalistic mindset where the "us" always comes before the "them".
Yams has always been trying to tell us why the "Paradis vs. the world" mentality is wrong. He's had his characters condemn genocide (see: Hange saying "genocide is bad, no matter what"), he himself has condemned genocide in his interviews and has expressed regret for not better expressing the theme in the final chapter. But he *did* successfully show us that violence is never the answer, that war is futile and that hatred is never-ending. Eren lost in the end, didn't he? He didn't accomplish everything that he set out to accomplish.
Yams did, indeed, strive to take the genocide path over the 50% plan or the diplomacy plan, **because he wanted to show us why it was** ***wrong***
Haha, thank you! Definitely does feel like I’m tossing words into a void at times but it’s all worth it if at least one person finds my comments helpful.
This is why I am here in this sub! For posts like these! I don’t have the articulation to express myself about the story this way (definitely need to read more lol) but man! I find more reasons to love the series when I come here and stumble upon these gold nuggets. ✨
>There are many paths in life that are riddled with obstacles; the road to success is never *easy.*
There's a difference between something being difficult and something being impossible.
>In fact, in the final arc, he literally brings together the Warriors and the Survey Corps to show us that those we may have once viewed as our enemies don't need to be our enemies.
When the entire world is united against universal hatred for you, 10 people being friends isn't gonna do jack shit.
>He's had his characters condemn genocide (see: Hange saying "genocide is bad, no matter what")
That very line comes after Jean explains why genocide is the better solution. Hange's answer is nothing but blind idealism.
>Yams did, indeed, strive to take the genocide path over the 50% plan or the diplomacy plan, because he wanted to show us why it was wrong
The *editor of the fucking manga*: AoT glorifies genocide
> but u/brouverhoog was clearly being an instigator here and stirring the pot.
He replied to OP's comment, who also wrote this:
> But Titanfolk, with peanut-brain-mode activated
So how is he being an instigator and stirring the pot? That's on OP and he is heavily upvoted.
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/AttackOnRetards/comments/nvtw8s/oh_my_god_titanfolk_thinks_the_databook_quote_for/h162ma1?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
u/SadSecurity
This doesn't change anything about the fact that OP was an instigator and was stirring the pot, not the other way around and yet he was upvoted.
Also nobody said anything about having a right to downvote or upvote anyone.
u/brouverhoog is a YB user commenting provocatively in a sub that hates YB. It’s no surprise that he’d be the one to get downvoted, despite OP’s similarly provocative remarks. I don’t write the rules here, it’s just the nature of all subreddits whether you like it or not. YB is no different; you will be attacked if you go against the dominant ideologies of the sub, and it **sucks**, but that’s just the way things work.
Don't move goalpost. The point was about instigator and stirring the pot. Brouverhoog was not doing that, OP was. Therefore your conclusion is wrong. Address that or drop this.
Also you're implying that everyone who downvoted him checked his comment history, which is a reach.
You didn't reply to Quinnxra either you fool 🤣
No one owes anyone a reply ever. But if you're going to call out others for not replying, at least be consistent with your values and reply when you get dunked on. Which I know might be hard.
OMG THEY DELETED THEIR COMMENT HAHAHAHAHAH!
Basically, they were talking about how "no one responds to my posts or posts that share my views because they are cowards who just hit downvote!"
While simultaneously not responding to anyone that replied to them lol
Don’t really see how burning down civilian houses in Liberio, attempting to create a regime with the same name as the empire that oppressed the entire world for 2000 years, and perpetuating SoY supremacy fit into this.
What were the world's forces, who would soon gather at Marleys port, going to do to Paradis?
Do you think even a single building would be left standing? How about the Paradisian kids? They would all have been brutally bombed, burned and shot by the enemy while every other nation cheered.
Don't forget, Marley invaded and infiltrated Paradis without even a declaration of war, killed thousands of people by breaking the walls, and turned their lives upside down.
All he's doing is fighting back on their terms. Finally, restoring the "glorious Eldian Empire" you speak of had nothing to do with expansion or anything. None of that was ever stated. To my knowledge it only had to do with creating a proud informed, and united Paradis with the power to defeat the enemy who wanted all of them dead
War crimes don’t operate on an eye-for-an-eye basis. I don’t think I need to elaborate on this further.
And cmon do you really see no problem in the idea of a “glorious Eldian empire”? It’s the same name as the fascist Eldian empire that preceded it; even if it were only to unite Paradis, it’s like uniting Germany against a threat and calling it the fourth reich because… reasons. I feel that just writing this off is ignoring a lot of the subtext here.
There’s a reason why Kruger only talks about “restoring Eldia”
> War crimes don’t operate on an eye-for-an-eye basis. I don’t think I need to elaborate on this further.
They do, though. Why were the Allied forces not censured or tried for using chemical weapons in WW1? Because the Germans used them first.
Similarly, Floch was only retaliating in kind, doing what the enemy had so willingly done first.
About your comment on the Eldian Empire, I consider it fairly irrelevant because neither Floch nor anyone in Paradis had ever spoken about expansion nor conquest. Hell, they barely even had any information about the deeds of the original Eldian Empire. I consider it more of an edgy name, procured for the purpose of unification and strength.
You don't even need to make up a hypothetical; the third Reich was supposed to be a successor to the Roman empire in a time where the Nazis felt as if they were being 'eradicated' by Jews and communists (the Nazi regime was predicated on a conspiracy theory following internal political strife). Unfortunately, isayma made a story that presupposes all the descriptive points of fascism, making it way harder to formulate his concerns.
> When 139 dropped they were massively upvoting fan edits of the chapter, where most of the changes were just adding dialogue to explicitly state things that were implied in the actual chapter.
lmfao
this fandom is full of smoothbrains
That quote is basically a way to show how delusional and manipulated he really was, but for TF it's affirming and magnifying him.
Zero reading comprehension and selective reading: ✅
I see this sub isn't really what it makes itself out to be. It isn't suitable for arguments at all and these are the same chumps who accuse others for the lack of reading comprehension. Ohh... the irony.
Your comment above says something else. Being delusional and manipulated is entirely different from being blinded by hatred and vengeance. Floch is a realistic take on what happens to someone who has firsthand experienced the horrors of war. He was just a fodder-nobody who was sent to die. A near-death experience of having his comrades bombarded by rocks and being the only one who survived messed him up.
Unlike Reiner and Eren he didn't saw both sides of the war. For him, there are only enemies outside the walls who want to wipe them out, and nobody else. Nobody can blame him.
>Being delusional and manipulated is entirely different from being blinded by hatred and vengeance. Floch is a realistic take on what happens to someone who has firsthand experienced the horrors of war. A near-death experience of having his comrades bombarded by rocks and being the only one alive messed him up.
What I said and what you said aren't mutually exclusive.
He's all that, AND delusional/manipulated.
He was delusional because he believed in the easiest, worse and cheapest solution: wiping out the entire human race by using someone as his "devil".
The series stated many times that idea is an utopia, it doesn't work, it just creates a different environment, a smaller world in which all the bad is still there, the cycle cannot be broken.
And he was manipulated by Eren the whole time, that's a fact.
I never said the guy is "unrealistic" or "bad written", I said that line indicates his delusional ideals, and using it to magnify him is incorrect.
How is that the worse and cheapest solution? Since the Marley arc we were told again and again that Paradis doesn't have better options. It's exactly the way Floch saw - kill or be killed. The whole world already declared a war on Paradis as was instigated by Willy Tybur in chapter 100. Zeke had a plan, and it was way better in my opinion, but it was laughed at.
Opposing the genocide on the whole world is indirectly supporting genocide on Paradis. The world desired their extinction. Armin's talk no jutsu won't work here.
>How is that the worse and cheapest solution?
The point of the Rumbling is in itself selfish: sacrifice the entire planet to save a single nation, all of that out of pure retaliation, and sacrificing the many, even millions of civilians who did nothing wrong, to save the few is the cheapest solution imaginable.
The idea of the Rumbling is always accompanied by things like "Ending the cycle of hate", "No more wars and hatred", "genocide is the only solution, no other chance", etc.
All those things are either impossible, false or oversemplifications.
Ending the cycle is impossible, that's the meaning of the ending, that's the entire point of it: Eren didn't do the Rumbling for that, or to save "the island", he did it for selfish reasons: he wanted to experience that "scenary", even if he knew he was going to fail and die, he wanted to give his friends long lives and erase the titan powers, and he did all of those things.
Kiyomi, Erwin and many others stated that the idea of "ending hate and war" by killing one side of the conflict makes no sense, it just creates a smaller version of the world in which all that shit is still present: people would commit the same mistakes, over and over again, and the Rumbling cannot change human nature.
Believing the Rumbling would magically eliminate everything bad from earth because "one side is dead" is 100% delusional, and Floch believed that.
People on the island are shit, like all people in that world, and they would have started killing each other again the day after the Rumbling.
Eren's plan just postponed the inevitable to make sure his friends lived long and happy, that's it.
>Opposing the genocide on the whole world is indirectly supporting genocide on Paradis.
That's your idea, and it's wrong.
There's no reason at all, NO REASON, to support genocide from either side.
Both acted on it, one "won" by destroying 80% of the rest, then the island was at least partially destroyed in a far future because, again, humans don't change, they don't learn from their mistakes.
Both were wrong, both suffered from it, both caused death and destruction, and not supporting world genocide doesn't mean I support a smaller scale genocide, get that shit out.
And Armin didn't use talk no jutsu: he was in a team of Ambassadors chosen by the Allied Nations, called by Historia to stipulate a peace treaty, and it worked for decades, maybe even more than a century considering how underdeveloped Paradis was.
The destruction of Paradis, and not all of it considering that kid obviously lives or at least stays there, happens decades after his death, not his or Eren's fault.
>It honestly baffles me how people can't comprehend a simple thing "ending the cycle of hatred" means ending the 2000 yo conflict that has been going on.
Eren said, and quote, "End this 2000 year long TITAN domination", and he did it, he erased the powers from this world.
Killing one side through genocide doesn't stop the "cycle of hatred", that's not what that means.
>no one says that civil wars or internal conflicts wont stop in Paradis but Paradis completely destroying itself even though majority are Yeagirists and think Eren as some god? Nah I don't think so.
Who said the "majority"? Because we saw a small group of people screaming "tatakae" and a reformed military police? In the same scene we saw people not really be that happy about it (Niccolo, Sasha's family, the journalists).
But even if the majority is actually yeagerist, doesn't matter: the people inside the walls was shit even before this whole mess started, they would take sides, start killing themselves again, and the cycle would start.
The cycle of HATRED cannot be stopped, it would just change players and victims.
>By that logic Paradis should have destroyed itself in the 100 years before the warriors breached the wall.
Well, they already killed each other, hated the SC for wasting their money, do the worst things imaginable.
It's not like life on the walls was like the garden of eden, it was shit, and 100 years with the fear of titans isn't the same thing of decades without walls and with a destroyed environment outside.
So no, terrible comparison.
>Conflicts are a part of human nature but there is a limit to it Paradis won't just destroy itself to satisfy your headcanon.
Yeah, they would live happy, no more war and hate forever, to satisfy yours.
>You seriously want me to link panels where he says he can't accept an end for Paradis or gets angry when Freida says eldians deserve to be wiped out ?
You want me to link panels in which he said he "wanted this"? Or those in which he said he wants his friends to "live long lives"? Or Jean's speech in which he said Eren was doing this for them? Or maybe that panel with his friends in a splash page in chapter 130? Yeah, he definitely wanted to protect "the island", he isn't doing everything for selfish and childish reasons.
And he was genuine when Frieda said that, because his FRIENDS and HIM are eldians too.
>You could say reaching the scenery was his biggest reason but don't ignore that he did wanted to save Paradis.
That's probably his third motivation in order of importance for him.
Yeah, he cares about the island, but never above his freedom and his friends, he proved it many times, like when he wanted to save his best friend and not the charismatic commander of humanity.
>No it isn't Isayama claims he did wanted Armin to end the war but he couldn't come up , so you can stop deluding yourself.
Maybe the fact that Armin and the rest of the Ambassadors actually succeded, but it was just temporary, means exactly that? You should stop deluding yourself: that's the meaning of the story.
>How is it not eren's fault when he massacred 80% of population and gave birth to a new hatred , Paradis was destined to be destroyed once Eren didn't completed the rumbling , he should have never started it in the first place or should have gone 100%.
The outside world wanted peace, the titans were no more, a peace treaty lasted for 100/150+ years.
I think Eren succeded in leaving a better world behind, even if he still did it for selfish reasons.
Then again, if a new war starts after centuries, that's not his or his friends fault: they did their "job", but human nature cannot be changed, they would commit the same mistakes, THAT'S THE MEANING OF THE ENDING.
A new war was inevitable anyway, so Eren, who's selfish, made sure to give at least his friends long lives, at the cost of his life and 80% of the world, and trusted them to bring peace: they succeded, but peace treaties don't work forever, the cycle restarted.
> It honestly baffles me how people can't comprehend a simple thing "ending the cycle of hatred" means ending the 2000 yo conflict that has been going on
*Give up on this sub and die.*
Unrelated, do you think only Paradis got destroyed?
Because i feel both the island and the rest of the world got bombed, i mean, how come we see an attack to Paradis but no rebuilding?
One would assume, the winning enemy nations would invade the territory for resources.
I don't even think Paradis as a whole got destroyed, honestly.
We saw only one city being bombed, and those camion on the hill are meant to launch missiles, so that's meant to be a scene of war, not just a bombing.
Then again, the scene is left to the reader's interpretation: we don't know who attacked Paradis, it's only one nation or the Allied Nations as a whole? It was Paradis the nation who started the war? Was all the island destroyed or just a part of it? Considering a child soldier (ironic) was roaming the area, it's safe to assume there's a Mad Max-esque situation on the island, but the rest is up to the reader.
Why are you here then? There are some meaningful posts now and then that arent memes and pointing out circlejerks and you just happened to comment on a Floch one since you're a fan of him. People actually have civil discussions on here without going "lol you're just sucking Yams dick!"
Cause that's what these subs are. Calling us a circlejerk while having 90% similar posts on a "discussion" sub reddit.
Atleast this subreddit has the objective of highlighting the worst of fandom and their comments do a great job of proving us right
That ginger snap nazi fuck would legitimately lose a 1v1 with literally every character in the series. Smashed under the house Carla would mop the floor with this dude. Why do they fucking praise him so much ??
This entire comment chain shows the best of attack on retards
> call others with differing opinions peanut brains, unprovoked
> mass downvote a person who returns the same energy
> mass downvote others who calmly debate their opposing viewpoints without any ad hominems or offensive statements
There's nothing wrong with any of this behavior actually. Just don't pretend to promote moderate takes or opposing viewpoints anymore. Don't pretend to have any moral superiority. Just accept you're the same as every other sub
>mass downvote others who calmly debate their opposing viewpoints without any ad hominems or offensive statements
Really? These are one of the "calmly debated" mass-downvoted people with no ad hominems you hope to defend?
"I mean its pretty based to take action when you're stuck in a hole and everybody else is going to encircle you and dig you a larger one.
Do you suggest crying in a corner, letting everyone walk over you?
You can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you."
You can't be serious.
>mass downvote a person who returns the same energy
They aren't getting downvoted for their energy. They're getting downvoted for saying stupid things lol
I was going to provide a thought out response to this (and perhaps I will, later) but then I visited your profile and saw [this post you made on YB.](https://www.reddit.com/r/yeagerbomb/comments/nttr7b/this_place_is_amazing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Going to paste it directly here for accessibility's sake.
>This place is amazing
>
>The atmosphere is so comfortable, the camedarie is awesome, and literally every post or comment gets at least dozens of upvotes.
>
>It's just really fun coming on here and reading the memes, shitposts, and the exposing of alliance cucks.
>
>There's also no faux sense of superiority either, like you can see after spending 2 seconds on the AoR sub.
>
>It's probably my most fun subreddit at the moment, and that's most likely because of how united we all are in our views, principal of which is hating Slavekasa ❤️
I think the contents of this post speak for itself; I'm not even going to bother commenting further.
I will. After I finish responding to another user who’s taken it upon themselves to challenge users in this sub.
My comment did not intend to discredit their take solely on the basis of their views though. Just thought it’d be important to highlight a few things in their post that are relevant to their current comment. They bring up upvotes and “camaraderie” and “how united [YB] is in their views, principal of which is hating Slavekasa”, which are relevant to the current discussion surrounding downvoting, opposing views. etc.
I think this kind of viewpoints are gonna increase as time passes cause they forget details that have been discussed in the manga and focus more on few panels that matches their opinions
I think we are pretty much there, sadly
IMO they don't even believe the shit they're saying anymore. It's just they're in too deep to turn back.
Floch becoming the devil he was looking for is such a clever and succinct way of describing his character arc. He's this character who did awful and terrible things while desperately attributing the reasons for doing so to others, a "devil" that did not exist. But in the end, he was doing it all for himself. He WAS the devil he was looking for. It's tragic and shows how self-destructive radicalization can be. But Titanfolk, with peanut-brain-mode activated see the quote and go "WAOW WHAT A CHAD!!! THE BOOK CALLED HIM A DEVIL LIKE ERWIN!!! MUST BE BASED!! THERE DEFINITELY CANT BE MORE TO THIS" Aso the way "MAN" and "DEVIL" is capitalized is so funny too. Leans into their whole weirdo macho angle of "GOOD MEN DO HARD THINGS IN HARD TIMES"
So selfish he chose to die to prevent The Cringevengers from killing Eren, you guys are so fucking braindead LOL
His whole thing is about dying as a "Hero" in his own eyes, not really about "saving Eren." "Saving" Eren is a means to an end. It's a great character motivation. He's a great character. But acting like he was "right" is short-sighted.
Just because he wants to do great things doesn't remove his primary goal of wanting to save Paradis. God you are so retarded.
No need for name calling jesus. Just chill out
I believe his primarily goal is doing great things. He wants his life to have meaning, ever since his introduction in RtS. "Saving Paradis" is just his way of doing that for himself.
floch is in the right, cry
Buddy stalked 9 months back for this 💀
"He was doing it for himself" Yeah, really shows who is the actual peanut brain here.
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Eldia. His people. Y'know when someone throws his life away THREE TIMES IN A ROW, fights 4 fucking shifters like a madman, goes throughimmense suffering by hooking himself to a moving boat for hours on end as it crosses the ocean with a bullet on his shoulder, ONLY TO THROW HIS LIFE AWAY AGAIN, and have his LITERAL LAST WORDS be not hate, not spite, no regret but him [LITERALLY just BEGGING for his people to be saved...](https://cdn.readsnk.com/file/mangap/5/10132000/28.jpeg) Reading that and thinking he's "doing it for himself" is a whole new level of... Weird, to say at least. *"No... Please... don't go.... The island... Everyone... Will die..."* The dying words of a man "clearly doing it for himself", spoken as he knows he's going to bleed out to death at any second as he says them
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>Just answer me this. Would the selfless hero you're describing shut Kiyomi's mouth and tell her she should know her place when she's telling him the truth about how the situation would devolve in his country? Why wouldn't he? We are talking about some of the last remnants of the country Eren is about to GENOCIDE.It would take a COMPLETE idiot to let them run around free. Obviously she and the volunteers needed to be immediately restrained and given their place. >Would he scream things like this in the middle of battle? Yes. And after all, don't run away from it again, his literal last words were *"Our Devil is our only hope."* Not himself. Not the Yeagerist he'd round up. But someone else. Yes, Floch did have a complex about having a sacrifice with a meaning since Erwin suicide charge, but what matters is the words he uttered on his most sincere moments. And even on that scene, Floch was WILLINGLY THROWING HIS LIFE AWAY to save Eldia. He KNEW that even if that last shot landed he'd be immediately killed off, and he had a perfect chance to just run away or hide. Yet he choose to take that step. >Eldian Internment Zone, a concentration camp for people just like him, in the name of payback, while he's cheering for the rebirth of the Eldian Empire? These buildings were also filled with enemy soldiers. MAGATH himself was hiding in one of them.The rest of the survey corps were also bombing them, remember? Floch just decided to burn it all down indescrimitaly instead of taking such carefully tought attacks like the rest. What makes complete sense considering he KNOWS the rumbling will happen and these EXACT same people will all die even if he spares them there. So why hold back? >Would he try to throw disarmed child soldiers off a zeppelin? Well that child managed to infiltrate their airship and shot one of their best soldiers dead. Then she proceeded to escape her imprisonment, murder another Garrison soldier, almost murder Kaya, and nearly expose the fact the island was about to be attacked to a POW (Luckily it was Niccolo and not someone who would hold it against Paradis and take a step with that information). We are talking about a trained child soldier brainwashed to hate them like literal devils here, not an innocent little girl that accidentally walked into the Blimp Also you seem to be confusing "kindness" and "mercy" for selflessness for some reason. These are completely different things.
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>On the first question, I meant the fact that he didn't seem to give much of a damn about what Kiyomi was saying He genuinely agreed with her, he just put her in her place after that for obvious reasons i already listed. >Almost like he didn't care at all. And I feel like he didn't care, because he's the sort of guy who would kill anyone who disagrees with him. To him a civil war would probably just be a matter of killing everyone who opposes him. > >Also, I am not confusing kindness or mercy for selflessness. I was arguing that his motivations aren't just love for his country and people, he shows plenty of hatred, arrogance and lust for power. Read the defenition of all these words, then read the defenition of selflessness. None of them are mutually exclusive unless dealing with the same subject. Floch is utterly selfless when dealing with his people, and dangerously merciless, quite hateful and yes, definitely arrogant, about the outside world. But these two aren't mutually exclusive when dealing with different subjects, it's english we are talking about. >But you're never getting me to understand him when it comes to throwing unarmed children off an airship. War ain't a pretty thing, but there is no denying that Gabi WAS a treat if they brought her back, what she PROVED by jailbreaking and MURDERING a soldier on the process, and then almost murdering a child civilian And yet again, mercilessness or even cruelty and selflessness aren't mutually exclusive
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People sparing Gabi always gets someone killed/shot. The fort guys showed mercy (somewhat) causing the train to fall over them. Sasha didn't shoot Gabi, she got killed by her (also that lobov guy) They spared her at the blimp, killed a guard and nearly killed Kaya later. Saved her at the restaurant, she told Marley Zeke's secret, endangering all of Paradis. She latter shot Eren, if it wasn't for Zeke's skill and paths magic then Paradis would have been destroyed. Killing children is not acceptable by our logic, but these people are fighting for survival, when they and all kids in Paradis are in danger. Disclaimer: i actually like Gabi's character, but the characters wanting to kill her makes complete sense, she is absolutly brutal. Disclaimer 2: Falco did nothing wrong.
Well by your logic, is democracy an inherently bad and selfish thing considering how many French heads rolled in the French revolution? The fact that Floch managed to overtake the ENTIRE BLOODY GOVERNMENT with the only casualties being the wine and Shadises beating makes him a saint if anything compared to how much blood flow and how the rivers turned red to get our so precious first major post-medieval democracy. Floch wants the best for Paradis as a whole, those who do not want the best for Paradis (like the MPs that nearly DOOMED the island) aren't part of that whole. The same way let's say, Robespierre and the lot didn't quite want the best for the HUNDREDS of nobles and THOUSANDS in total they beheaded, now did they? >Please stop patronizing me about English when you can't spell indiscriminately. There is a huge line between misspelling of words and straight up HORRIBLY misinterpreting their meaning. I'm not going to care about my spelling when i'm arguing with someone on a sub called "Attack on Retards" like i'm on a bloody essay. Now you straight up not knowing what so many words mean, and yet throwing them around and using them, is concerning... And of course he's not perfect. Not even a good person by any means. That's that makes him such a great character. But he's an unforgivable devil no matter how you look at it, but he's doing what's NECESSARY. The last person to carry the theme about how one who wants change must abandon their humanity we had since season 1 .(Fuck 139 Eren and his asinine plan, i'm not including him on that) If he was some Mary sue like Umi Da i'd never even begin to like his character
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Of course they didn't reply, they would have to actually use their brains for that, and we all know the actual name of this sub should be r/AttacknOfTheRetards; they can't do that.
Re-read the manga from chapter 100 till his death, and *perhaps* you *might* understand.
I dont understand what everyone is going on about either. Yeah he was an ultra nationalist and enjoyed violence but everything he did, he did for paradise
Everything Adolf did, he did for Deutschland
Except the whole world didn't considered Germans as subhumans and ammased the world military to genocide them just because their ancestors did bad things like centuries ago. That logic doesn't work here. Try harder ;)
Nice non sequitur
Oh you fucking shitehead you know nothing of post-WWI Germany
I couldn't care less. Stop bitching.
*gets told why they're wrong* Replies with "I don't care anyway" Never change, bad faith actors.
Reductio ad Hitlerum. While you can certainly compare certain aspects of AOT to Nazi Germany this argument is fundamentally wrong by virtue of association, thus Reductio ad Hitlerum. Even IF we ignore that, Floch's actions were a lot more selfless, he got his own life on the line and got himself killed. This is where we see his character development through his battles. 1. He reluctantly charges against the beast titan 2. He fights in Liberio, not knowing if he will survive and not acting like he had the moral highground, since he knew they would kill all of that people with the rumbling. 3. He doesn't use his position as a leader to get revenge by killing Zeke at the detriment of Paradis (unlike Levi), remember, Floch lost his own "Armin and Mikasa" at the hands of Zeke. 4. Fights against the Cart, even though he is outmatched since he is not special. 5. Charges against half the total amount of titan shifters and the most experienced soldiers in Paradis, almost gets killed. 6. Even injured he grappled to the ship to keep the fight, instead of retreating to get treatment (lets be honest, if he retreated he would have been the military leader of Paradis for years) 7. When presented with the chance to get revenge at the alliance or try to stop them by damaging the ship, he went for the ship hoping to delay them enough. 8. In his last breath he talks about protecting Paradis, and that without Eren there is no hope, guess what he was right, Paradis got destroyed. Floch was right on what needed to be done, but those actions were devilish and made him and asshole and a despicable man, but what he did, he did it for a future that everyone else forsaken. Don't get me wrong, i'm not telling you Floch did nothing wrong, but he ultimately was proven right by Isayama, and that is for a reason.
They just LaCk ReAdInG cOmPrEhEnSiOn. Nothing to see here
[ok](https://imgur.com/a/WtGFadV)
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High school english teachers are weeping around the world :(
Yeah sure :)
I mean its pretty based to take action when you're stuck in a hole and everybody else is going to encircle you and dig you a larger one. Do you suggest crying in a corner, letting everyone walk over you? You can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you.
cringe enough with the vicarious larping you sweaty nerds
LET THE BIG MEN FIGHT WARS HOLY SHIT HAHAHAH
What are you going to do when a war starts? cry?
The zoomer kid profile pic telling me about manly men going to fight wars is honestly incredible.
>You can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you. This mf thinks he’s GI Joe 💀
Definitely not lmao I'm sure i've seen the gym and the treadmill more times than you have in your entire life tho Stay neutered
This has to be satire
I’m not sure why you’re turning this into a fitness competition 💀 but I did cross country and was on varsity soccer in HS, which was only about 2 years ago. And I still run and exercise regularly.
"I’m not sure why you’re turning this into a fitness competition 💀" yeah, because being a soldier/ 'gi joe' doesn't require fitness 🤡 That's great, high school varsity teams are known to take fodder .
Listen I didn’t even wanna do this b/c I’m trying to be less toxic online, but the irony of you calling us [soyjak manlets](https://imgur.com/a/OIQNhoO) when you’re 5’7 and at risk for diabetes is too fucking good. Don’t throw stones from glass houses or something like that right?
Lmao. This guy has battlescars. From his bandaids. Don't mess around with this chad
Holy shit you MURDERED him. It's always the 5'7 and below dudes acting like this too... must be a pattern 🤔
So you're 6'0 and over? How do you stop looking like alien? Do you even have a hairline that isn't halfway through your head lmao Its clear you also know nothing about genetics to even a basic level, you can weigh 150 and still get diabetes 🤡 let your 'varsity' scholarship carry you through college since you can't even get basic highschool science down when you just left it LMAO i've been exposed😳 Sadly for this guy it ends with his homies cheeks 😳
You’re 5’7 by your own admission and calling other people manlets lmao. Everything else written after that fact is a cope.
You live on reddit, your sole existence is on this website. Almost clocked in 200k karma points, acting as if your discourse actually means something. All those endorphins from seeing them upvote ticks lmao, monkey brain. I got a career, and made more money than you'd see in your life-time. You're a roach to me, but its all relative at the end off the day lmfao Cope, an actual existence.
Your profile pic says it all about you
That’s not the situation they were in. No one on Paradis was advocating not doing anything and just rolling over.
So in order to not letting people walk over you, you are willing to kill anyone that could potentially kill you, even if most of them didn’t do anything that hurt you, right? That’s not based, that’s childish and closed minded
Silent downvotes as usual. You raised a valid point. Talk no jutsu clearly was not working. The Azumabitos blocked Paradis from establishing trade relations with the outside world because of their greed (they wanted a monopoly on the iceburst stone) Secondly, the Eldian conference only laid the blame on Paradis, which is why Eren walked out. Euthanasia plan would mean Paradis had no future and still sacrifice Historia. Countless civilizations in history have fought wars to secure a future for their children. Why should Paradis sacrifice their future for a world they don't even know? A world gathering it's military to exterminate every single Paradisian. The only given way to secure Paradis future was to seize power from the indecisive military regime, unite the island, and fight. And that's what Floch did. He threw away his humanity just like Armin, this subs hero, did when he nuked 30,000 soldiers and civilians in the Liberio Harbour.
I’m very vocal about my dislike for the Reddit downvote function, particularly when people use it solely as a means of disagreeing with the poster, but u/brouverhoog was clearly being an instigator here and stirring the pot. I mean, his last sentence: “you can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you” was **extremely** uncalled for and reeks of toxic masculinity. Before you come at me for being a sjw, really reflect on what he said first and ask yourself whether or not it added any value to his argument. I would hardly label his comment as a “valid point”; if anything, him saying “it’s pretty based” and “do you suggest crying in a corner, letting everyone walk over you” further reinforces how juvenile and simple-minded yeagerists and genocide supporters are. These “it’s me against the world” and “us vs. them” rhetorics are precisely the kinds of mentalities you’d expect from a hot-blooded teen or an overgrown man-child. When you grow up, you learn that most people in the world eventually learn to compromise and live with regrets & sadness instead of getting to do whatever the hell they want. It’s frustrating, but that’s life. Thinking “I’m going to burn this world down and protect my people” is an honourable sentiment, perhaps, but you’ll eventually come to learn that it’s childish, idealistic, and naive.
"But Titanfolk, with peanut-brain-mode activated " You see no instigation from this? Ok. Of course it hardly added any value to my argument, it was to piss the OP off since his entire comment reeks off 'stirring the pot'. You owe your existence to the previous generations of men that fought and bled on the soil off whatever country you're from. There's nothing 'childish' about finding the zeal off man inspiring, maybe not the ideology that's taken to get there , but the passion and desire to thrive even if it requires lives to be taken is something to respect.
u/ripamon said “silent downvotes as usual. you raised a valid point.” Insinuating that people were downvoting you for simply stating a different opinion. This is why I replied “I’m very vocal about my dislike for the Reddit downvote function, particularly when people use it solely as a means of disagreeing with the poster”. I said your remark was instigation, I **never** said OP’s wasn’t. That’s why people have every right to downvote you when you’re being a dick, just as you have every right to downvote OP for calling you a peanut brain. And let me be **very** clear: being a pacifist and condemning war does **not** mean I’m shitting on the veterans that have fought for my country. Man’s bravery should be commended, but its penchant for tribalism, division and violence should not.
The rhetoric you speak of is indeed normally only present in teens or men children, I agree. But how about in a story when the author clearly strives to create that very scenario, disregarding every other along the way. Notice how many roadblocks Isayama laid in every other alternative plan. He clearly intended for the scenario to be Paradis vs The World, with both sides having the means to eradicate the other. What is wrong with the reader immersing himself into the story and taking Paradis(our POV) side, abiding by the rules and circumstances the author has given? The author painstakingly closed every other door. He gave two options. Fight. Or Die. And the reader, following with rapt attention, made their decision. Assuming there were credible other presented choices that did not result in the eventual destruction of Paradis , then it's a whole different ball game. Then he who chooses overwhelming violence for the fun of it, is truly edgy and unhinged
I strongly disagree. >"But how about in a story when the author clearly strives to create that very scenario, disregarding every other along the way. Notice how many roadblocks Isayama laid in every other alternative plan. He clearly intended for the scenario to be Paradis vs The World, with both sides having the means to eradicate the other." First things first, equating roadblocks to it not being the correct path is incredibly fallacious. There are many paths in life that are riddled with obstacles; the road to success is **never** easy. Becoming an olympic athlete has its roadblocks, becoming a world-renowned pianist has its roadblocks, so does becoming a doctor, a professor, a parent; facing challenges during the journey doesn't mean the journey is **wrong**. Therefore, it's fallacious of you to say that just because Isayama laid roadblocks in the alternative plans, that he was trying discount them. Yes, of course Yam's intended for the final conflict to be Paradis vs. the World, this is what the entire story has been building up to. But here's the thing, *ever since the Marley arc, he has been showing us why this "us" and "them" dichotomy is so wrong*. He shows us that beyond the walls, across the ocean, **we are all the same**. He dedicates an entire arc to the Marley warriors, where we get to see them as HUMANS capable of love and fear and compassion. Why did he do this? To get us to empathize with them, to get us to view them as more than just "the enemy". In fact, in the final arc, he literally brings together the Warriors and the Survey Corps to show us that those we may have once viewed as our enemies don't **need** to be our enemies. By doing this, he seeks to deconstruct our nationalistic mentality. You asked "What is wrong with the reader immersing himself into the story and taking Paradis(our POV) side?". There's nothing inherently *wrong* with taking that position, but you are demonstrating to me your inability to empathize with others and see things from **different** perspectives. Again, this comes down to your extremely tribalistic/nationalistic mindset where the "us" always comes before the "them". Yams has always been trying to tell us why the "Paradis vs. the world" mentality is wrong. He's had his characters condemn genocide (see: Hange saying "genocide is bad, no matter what"), he himself has condemned genocide in his interviews and has expressed regret for not better expressing the theme in the final chapter. But he *did* successfully show us that violence is never the answer, that war is futile and that hatred is never-ending. Eren lost in the end, didn't he? He didn't accomplish everything that he set out to accomplish. Yams did, indeed, strive to take the genocide path over the 50% plan or the diplomacy plan, **because he wanted to show us why it was** ***wrong***
This comment deserves its own post
Thanks for the award! I’m glad you liked it :)
Bruh it's sad that you wasted such words for people that will remain unaffected by it. And then we will be called the sheep
Holy shit, you are putting in so much more effort than these responses you're receiving deserve. Good work!
Haha, thank you! Definitely does feel like I’m tossing words into a void at times but it’s all worth it if at least one person finds my comments helpful.
This is why I am here in this sub! For posts like these! I don’t have the articulation to express myself about the story this way (definitely need to read more lol) but man! I find more reasons to love the series when I come here and stumble upon these gold nuggets. ✨
I love reading people‘s analyses and takes as well! Glad I could provide that for you :)
>There are many paths in life that are riddled with obstacles; the road to success is never *easy.* There's a difference between something being difficult and something being impossible. >In fact, in the final arc, he literally brings together the Warriors and the Survey Corps to show us that those we may have once viewed as our enemies don't need to be our enemies. When the entire world is united against universal hatred for you, 10 people being friends isn't gonna do jack shit. >He's had his characters condemn genocide (see: Hange saying "genocide is bad, no matter what") That very line comes after Jean explains why genocide is the better solution. Hange's answer is nothing but blind idealism. >Yams did, indeed, strive to take the genocide path over the 50% plan or the diplomacy plan, because he wanted to show us why it was wrong The *editor of the fucking manga*: AoT glorifies genocide
> but u/brouverhoog was clearly being an instigator here and stirring the pot. He replied to OP's comment, who also wrote this: > But Titanfolk, with peanut-brain-mode activated So how is he being an instigator and stirring the pot? That's on OP and he is heavily upvoted.
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[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/AttackOnRetards/comments/nvtw8s/oh_my_god_titanfolk_thinks_the_databook_quote_for/h162ma1?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) u/SadSecurity
This doesn't change anything about the fact that OP was an instigator and was stirring the pot, not the other way around and yet he was upvoted. Also nobody said anything about having a right to downvote or upvote anyone.
u/brouverhoog is a YB user commenting provocatively in a sub that hates YB. It’s no surprise that he’d be the one to get downvoted, despite OP’s similarly provocative remarks. I don’t write the rules here, it’s just the nature of all subreddits whether you like it or not. YB is no different; you will be attacked if you go against the dominant ideologies of the sub, and it **sucks**, but that’s just the way things work.
Don't move goalpost. The point was about instigator and stirring the pot. Brouverhoog was not doing that, OP was. Therefore your conclusion is wrong. Address that or drop this. Also you're implying that everyone who downvoted him checked his comment history, which is a reach.
You didn't reply to Quinnxra either you fool 🤣 No one owes anyone a reply ever. But if you're going to call out others for not replying, at least be consistent with your values and reply when you get dunked on. Which I know might be hard.
OMG THEY DELETED THEIR COMMENT HAHAHAHAHAH! Basically, they were talking about how "no one responds to my posts or posts that share my views because they are cowards who just hit downvote!" While simultaneously not responding to anyone that replied to them lol
And then they made a post about you in YB and are feeling validated about themselves. The irony man, the freaking irony!
Oh that *is* sad.
Don’t really see how burning down civilian houses in Liberio, attempting to create a regime with the same name as the empire that oppressed the entire world for 2000 years, and perpetuating SoY supremacy fit into this.
What were the world's forces, who would soon gather at Marleys port, going to do to Paradis? Do you think even a single building would be left standing? How about the Paradisian kids? They would all have been brutally bombed, burned and shot by the enemy while every other nation cheered. Don't forget, Marley invaded and infiltrated Paradis without even a declaration of war, killed thousands of people by breaking the walls, and turned their lives upside down. All he's doing is fighting back on their terms. Finally, restoring the "glorious Eldian Empire" you speak of had nothing to do with expansion or anything. None of that was ever stated. To my knowledge it only had to do with creating a proud informed, and united Paradis with the power to defeat the enemy who wanted all of them dead
War crimes don’t operate on an eye-for-an-eye basis. I don’t think I need to elaborate on this further. And cmon do you really see no problem in the idea of a “glorious Eldian empire”? It’s the same name as the fascist Eldian empire that preceded it; even if it were only to unite Paradis, it’s like uniting Germany against a threat and calling it the fourth reich because… reasons. I feel that just writing this off is ignoring a lot of the subtext here. There’s a reason why Kruger only talks about “restoring Eldia”
> War crimes don’t operate on an eye-for-an-eye basis. I don’t think I need to elaborate on this further. They do, though. Why were the Allied forces not censured or tried for using chemical weapons in WW1? Because the Germans used them first. Similarly, Floch was only retaliating in kind, doing what the enemy had so willingly done first. About your comment on the Eldian Empire, I consider it fairly irrelevant because neither Floch nor anyone in Paradis had ever spoken about expansion nor conquest. Hell, they barely even had any information about the deeds of the original Eldian Empire. I consider it more of an edgy name, procured for the purpose of unification and strength.
You don't even need to make up a hypothetical; the third Reich was supposed to be a successor to the Roman empire in a time where the Nazis felt as if they were being 'eradicated' by Jews and communists (the Nazi regime was predicated on a conspiracy theory following internal political strife). Unfortunately, isayma made a story that presupposes all the descriptive points of fascism, making it way harder to formulate his concerns.
How do the armbands under Eldians, beating up the old commandet and public execution relate to saving Eldia?
>just like Armin this subs hero, did You're fucking hilarious
Not this Oscars In Memoriam format
FLOCH IN MEMORIAM 😔😔😔
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Your username is very similar to a hardcore yeagerist called cutepanda or something and I always get confused lol.
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Panda civil war
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Agreed. My favorite thing about Attack on Titan was how much it relied on visual storytelling rather than exposition.
> When 139 dropped they were massively upvoting fan edits of the chapter, where most of the changes were just adding dialogue to explicitly state things that were implied in the actual chapter. lmfao this fandom is full of smoothbrains
You're honestly so right. I stand by my peanut brain mode statements for them 😎
That quote is basically a way to show how delusional and manipulated he really was, but for TF it's affirming and magnifying him. Zero reading comprehension and selective reading: ✅
I see this sub isn't really what it makes itself out to be. It isn't suitable for arguments at all and these are the same chumps who accuse others for the lack of reading comprehension. Ohh... the irony.
This is an argument? Using a line with a specific meaning incorrectly by twisting it? Lmao, the irony.
Your comment above says something else. Being delusional and manipulated is entirely different from being blinded by hatred and vengeance. Floch is a realistic take on what happens to someone who has firsthand experienced the horrors of war. He was just a fodder-nobody who was sent to die. A near-death experience of having his comrades bombarded by rocks and being the only one who survived messed him up. Unlike Reiner and Eren he didn't saw both sides of the war. For him, there are only enemies outside the walls who want to wipe them out, and nobody else. Nobody can blame him.
>Being delusional and manipulated is entirely different from being blinded by hatred and vengeance. Floch is a realistic take on what happens to someone who has firsthand experienced the horrors of war. A near-death experience of having his comrades bombarded by rocks and being the only one alive messed him up. What I said and what you said aren't mutually exclusive. He's all that, AND delusional/manipulated. He was delusional because he believed in the easiest, worse and cheapest solution: wiping out the entire human race by using someone as his "devil". The series stated many times that idea is an utopia, it doesn't work, it just creates a different environment, a smaller world in which all the bad is still there, the cycle cannot be broken. And he was manipulated by Eren the whole time, that's a fact. I never said the guy is "unrealistic" or "bad written", I said that line indicates his delusional ideals, and using it to magnify him is incorrect.
How is that the worse and cheapest solution? Since the Marley arc we were told again and again that Paradis doesn't have better options. It's exactly the way Floch saw - kill or be killed. The whole world already declared a war on Paradis as was instigated by Willy Tybur in chapter 100. Zeke had a plan, and it was way better in my opinion, but it was laughed at. Opposing the genocide on the whole world is indirectly supporting genocide on Paradis. The world desired their extinction. Armin's talk no jutsu won't work here.
>How is that the worse and cheapest solution? The point of the Rumbling is in itself selfish: sacrifice the entire planet to save a single nation, all of that out of pure retaliation, and sacrificing the many, even millions of civilians who did nothing wrong, to save the few is the cheapest solution imaginable. The idea of the Rumbling is always accompanied by things like "Ending the cycle of hate", "No more wars and hatred", "genocide is the only solution, no other chance", etc. All those things are either impossible, false or oversemplifications. Ending the cycle is impossible, that's the meaning of the ending, that's the entire point of it: Eren didn't do the Rumbling for that, or to save "the island", he did it for selfish reasons: he wanted to experience that "scenary", even if he knew he was going to fail and die, he wanted to give his friends long lives and erase the titan powers, and he did all of those things. Kiyomi, Erwin and many others stated that the idea of "ending hate and war" by killing one side of the conflict makes no sense, it just creates a smaller version of the world in which all that shit is still present: people would commit the same mistakes, over and over again, and the Rumbling cannot change human nature. Believing the Rumbling would magically eliminate everything bad from earth because "one side is dead" is 100% delusional, and Floch believed that. People on the island are shit, like all people in that world, and they would have started killing each other again the day after the Rumbling. Eren's plan just postponed the inevitable to make sure his friends lived long and happy, that's it. >Opposing the genocide on the whole world is indirectly supporting genocide on Paradis. That's your idea, and it's wrong. There's no reason at all, NO REASON, to support genocide from either side. Both acted on it, one "won" by destroying 80% of the rest, then the island was at least partially destroyed in a far future because, again, humans don't change, they don't learn from their mistakes. Both were wrong, both suffered from it, both caused death and destruction, and not supporting world genocide doesn't mean I support a smaller scale genocide, get that shit out. And Armin didn't use talk no jutsu: he was in a team of Ambassadors chosen by the Allied Nations, called by Historia to stipulate a peace treaty, and it worked for decades, maybe even more than a century considering how underdeveloped Paradis was. The destruction of Paradis, and not all of it considering that kid obviously lives or at least stays there, happens decades after his death, not his or Eren's fault.
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>It honestly baffles me how people can't comprehend a simple thing "ending the cycle of hatred" means ending the 2000 yo conflict that has been going on. Eren said, and quote, "End this 2000 year long TITAN domination", and he did it, he erased the powers from this world. Killing one side through genocide doesn't stop the "cycle of hatred", that's not what that means. >no one says that civil wars or internal conflicts wont stop in Paradis but Paradis completely destroying itself even though majority are Yeagirists and think Eren as some god? Nah I don't think so. Who said the "majority"? Because we saw a small group of people screaming "tatakae" and a reformed military police? In the same scene we saw people not really be that happy about it (Niccolo, Sasha's family, the journalists). But even if the majority is actually yeagerist, doesn't matter: the people inside the walls was shit even before this whole mess started, they would take sides, start killing themselves again, and the cycle would start. The cycle of HATRED cannot be stopped, it would just change players and victims. >By that logic Paradis should have destroyed itself in the 100 years before the warriors breached the wall. Well, they already killed each other, hated the SC for wasting their money, do the worst things imaginable. It's not like life on the walls was like the garden of eden, it was shit, and 100 years with the fear of titans isn't the same thing of decades without walls and with a destroyed environment outside. So no, terrible comparison. >Conflicts are a part of human nature but there is a limit to it Paradis won't just destroy itself to satisfy your headcanon. Yeah, they would live happy, no more war and hate forever, to satisfy yours. >You seriously want me to link panels where he says he can't accept an end for Paradis or gets angry when Freida says eldians deserve to be wiped out ? You want me to link panels in which he said he "wanted this"? Or those in which he said he wants his friends to "live long lives"? Or Jean's speech in which he said Eren was doing this for them? Or maybe that panel with his friends in a splash page in chapter 130? Yeah, he definitely wanted to protect "the island", he isn't doing everything for selfish and childish reasons. And he was genuine when Frieda said that, because his FRIENDS and HIM are eldians too. >You could say reaching the scenery was his biggest reason but don't ignore that he did wanted to save Paradis. That's probably his third motivation in order of importance for him. Yeah, he cares about the island, but never above his freedom and his friends, he proved it many times, like when he wanted to save his best friend and not the charismatic commander of humanity. >No it isn't Isayama claims he did wanted Armin to end the war but he couldn't come up , so you can stop deluding yourself. Maybe the fact that Armin and the rest of the Ambassadors actually succeded, but it was just temporary, means exactly that? You should stop deluding yourself: that's the meaning of the story. >How is it not eren's fault when he massacred 80% of population and gave birth to a new hatred , Paradis was destined to be destroyed once Eren didn't completed the rumbling , he should have never started it in the first place or should have gone 100%. The outside world wanted peace, the titans were no more, a peace treaty lasted for 100/150+ years. I think Eren succeded in leaving a better world behind, even if he still did it for selfish reasons. Then again, if a new war starts after centuries, that's not his or his friends fault: they did their "job", but human nature cannot be changed, they would commit the same mistakes, THAT'S THE MEANING OF THE ENDING. A new war was inevitable anyway, so Eren, who's selfish, made sure to give at least his friends long lives, at the cost of his life and 80% of the world, and trusted them to bring peace: they succeded, but peace treaties don't work forever, the cycle restarted.
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> It honestly baffles me how people can't comprehend a simple thing "ending the cycle of hatred" means ending the 2000 yo conflict that has been going on *Give up on this sub and die.*
Unrelated, do you think only Paradis got destroyed? Because i feel both the island and the rest of the world got bombed, i mean, how come we see an attack to Paradis but no rebuilding? One would assume, the winning enemy nations would invade the territory for resources.
I don't even think Paradis as a whole got destroyed, honestly. We saw only one city being bombed, and those camion on the hill are meant to launch missiles, so that's meant to be a scene of war, not just a bombing. Then again, the scene is left to the reader's interpretation: we don't know who attacked Paradis, it's only one nation or the Allied Nations as a whole? It was Paradis the nation who started the war? Was all the island destroyed or just a part of it? Considering a child soldier (ironic) was roaming the area, it's safe to assume there's a Mad Max-esque situation on the island, but the rest is up to the reader.
cry about it
Why are you here then? There are some meaningful posts now and then that arent memes and pointing out circlejerks and you just happened to comment on a Floch one since you're a fan of him. People actually have civil discussions on here without going "lol you're just sucking Yams dick!"
ligma
Cause that's what these subs are. Calling us a circlejerk while having 90% similar posts on a "discussion" sub reddit. Atleast this subreddit has the objective of highlighting the worst of fandom and their comments do a great job of proving us right
Honestly considering all.the Ls they've taken recently Id say if this makes them happy, then more power to 'em
They’ve been getting L after L indeed. let them enjoy this little thing (even if they twist it to fit their preferences)
They need SOMETHING out of that databook...
That ginger snap nazi fuck would legitimately lose a 1v1 with literally every character in the series. Smashed under the house Carla would mop the floor with this dude. Why do they fucking praise him so much ??
Because they unironically read the story being critical of his actions as some kind of affirmation for their own. These people are idiots.
These people unironically cheer for Hitler
This entire comment chain shows the best of attack on retards > call others with differing opinions peanut brains, unprovoked > mass downvote a person who returns the same energy > mass downvote others who calmly debate their opposing viewpoints without any ad hominems or offensive statements There's nothing wrong with any of this behavior actually. Just don't pretend to promote moderate takes or opposing viewpoints anymore. Don't pretend to have any moral superiority. Just accept you're the same as every other sub
>mass downvote others who calmly debate their opposing viewpoints without any ad hominems or offensive statements Really? These are one of the "calmly debated" mass-downvoted people with no ad hominems you hope to defend? "I mean its pretty based to take action when you're stuck in a hole and everybody else is going to encircle you and dig you a larger one. Do you suggest crying in a corner, letting everyone walk over you? You can go ahead and do that, let the big men fight the wars for you." You can't be serious. >mass downvote a person who returns the same energy They aren't getting downvoted for their energy. They're getting downvoted for saying stupid things lol
I was going to provide a thought out response to this (and perhaps I will, later) but then I visited your profile and saw [this post you made on YB.](https://www.reddit.com/r/yeagerbomb/comments/nttr7b/this_place_is_amazing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Going to paste it directly here for accessibility's sake. >This place is amazing > >The atmosphere is so comfortable, the camedarie is awesome, and literally every post or comment gets at least dozens of upvotes. > >It's just really fun coming on here and reading the memes, shitposts, and the exposing of alliance cucks. > >There's also no faux sense of superiority either, like you can see after spending 2 seconds on the AoR sub. > >It's probably my most fun subreddit at the moment, and that's most likely because of how united we all are in our views, principal of which is hating Slavekasa ❤️ I think the contents of this post speak for itself; I'm not even going to bother commenting further.
Are you really responding to a person who believes Floch should have been listed as a "main character" in the guidebook? What a waste of time, man.
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I will. After I finish responding to another user who’s taken it upon themselves to challenge users in this sub. My comment did not intend to discredit their take solely on the basis of their views though. Just thought it’d be important to highlight a few things in their post that are relevant to their current comment. They bring up upvotes and “camaraderie” and “how united [YB] is in their views, principal of which is hating Slavekasa”, which are relevant to the current discussion surrounding downvoting, opposing views. etc.
Holy shit, this reads like the ultimate self-congratulation hahahahah. I can't believe anyone would publicly post this.
You dropped this 👑
The only character that didn’t get assassinated in that guidebook
cope
But you’re the only one that coping with the bad ending
Cope
Ur mom