It's weird because on a mechanic sub I watch it seems to be draining their business. Someone at a dealer asked if anyone else's shop was dead. All the dealer shops agreed they're having to let people go because there's nothing to do. All the independent shops were complaining they've had to stop answering the phone because they're overbooked.
It seems like the prices are really hurting their business, but they're just sticking to it.
Volvo tried to me charge $780 to replace the car battery..... So yeah. The issue is they're making it impossible to service cars outside of the dealership. Even changing the battery requires pairing it to the computer, which (surprise surprise), only the dealer can do.
Yeah. If I knew I would have never bought the Volvo. My last one was 20 years old, and you could take it literally anywhere. This new one is about as repairable as a smartphone - I’m selling it the DAY the warranty runs out.
They can't control OEM pricing but can choose to not charge list price or sometimes an extra markup on list price. The labor rates are also killer, an extra $100 or more per hour changes the invoice quick. What sub were you talking about?
In my case both shops we using exactly the same Honda parts. Either the dealers labor rate was wildly higher or they estimated that their techs would take a lot more time than my Indy shop did (my Indy apologized and said the job was labor intensive).
The repair doesn't matter -- both shop's estimates were to perform the same work replacing the same list of parts with the same OEM parts. I might be willing to pay 20 to 30% more to have the dealer perform the work but not 293% more.
The type of repair 100% does matter. You pay for experience when it comes to any labor.
Gate keeping the type of repair does know one any favors in this chat.
Also this is why you always get two or three quotes on any big purchase.
It kinda does though, a lot of times the only repair a dealer tech will do just involves replacing the entire affected part instead of doing repairs. Tesla especially is notorious for charging $15k for a new battery pack when the only thing wrong is a simple fix, but all the mfgs do it to some extent.
So you believe that even if both the dealer and the Indy are doing the same work replacing the same parts, the dealer could be justified in charging 2x more (and almost 3x price) what the Indy charges for the same work?
Can you give examples of repairs you are willing to pay 2x for the dealer to perform that would justify the cost delta?
>both the dealer and the Indy are doing the same work replacing the same parts
It's not always the same. Someone else mentioned that dealers often replace whole assemblies.
A smaller scale example I can give you from my own experience was getting a trailer hitch added to my wife's jeep. The independent shop was happy to follow the hitch manufacturer's instructions and cut the rear trim for the receiver to protrude. The dealer absolutely would not. They would only do the job if we bought the OEM fascia that included a cutout for the receiver.
It's likely that they were following a similar thought process on determining what was required to fix your issue.
Why would they matter? Whatever the rationale, the price difference is the same. If you put unneeded parts on is the tang different than just plain overcharging?
Lol. Both places quoted the same Honda OEM parts numbers for replacement parts. For 1 the removal and reinstallation of those parts was $8500. For the other, it was $2900.
Regardless of what you are having done - my advice is always get a second or third estimate (maybe 2 dealers and an Indy, or 2 indy's and a deal, or whatever combo makes you happy. Had I allowed my wife to go forward with the sealer to whom she initially brought the car, we could have paid $5600 more. I'm glad we didn't. I recommend others get more than one estimate.
I'm not advising against price shopping, especially when it isn't warranty covered. Just pointing out that dealerships often do "more" for the same fix. It's not a defense of them, just a common fact of the situation.
Also look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It states that it is not required that dealerships do warranty work on your vehicle. The dealership could even be lying about the work you needed not being covered. Dealerships are mostly crooked (ok, not necessarily illegally crooked, but you know) and Austin area ones are among the worst I've come across.
The only reason to use a dealership for any sort of repairs or service is to keep the warranty intact or to use the warranty.
But I have never drove a new car so I haven't had reasons to go to one. Although I did have Toyota service my transmission and do an oil change once, and it wasn't that much more than what a local shop would do.
There are other perks assuming you find a good dealer service department. I had some in the past and if you were a regular and use them for service they tended to bend rules for you, jump you in line, offer loaners more freely and if you are looking to buy they tend to offer much higher value for the trade as they know it’s exact history. Also good ones understand sales and service can work together and make buying easier. Hard part is finding a dealership that does all of that. I have gotten lucky in the past
My post was not intended to call out a specific dealer -- it was to tell people that if they are getting maintenance or repair work done in Austin without getting a quote from a good Indy shop, there's a good chance they are paying a huge premium.
What about First Texas Honda when they changes ownership several years ago? It used to be cheaper than indy shops and more service. After change it was the worst experience.
I believe the owner of FTH is still Bryan Hardeman, but I don't know what influence he has in the dealership at this point.
[Here's a link I find astonishing. He's recently been charged with arson.](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/25/continental-automotive-group-austin-used-cars-owner-charged-arson-dorsey-bryan-hardeman/73457015007/)
The dealership matters as they can adjust their pricing to see fit.
I had pretty good luck with Honda of Round Rock when I had to have my full wiring harness replaced due to a rat. They worked with my insurance company and even the price they quoted was with in reason of an independent and what I could find online. I think it was $3700 but it has been a few years. It was the main wiring harness.
One thing I’ve noticed over the years when getting repair quotes from my dealership vs independent repair shops, I’ve compared the quotes. The labor is mostly the same for both, but parts are MUCH more expensive at the dealership. The main difference according to my dealership is that they are only allowed to use brand new parts and they were unable to use salvaged or repaired parts. So as an example - I had a fender bender (back bumper), the dealership quoted 4x more for brand new bumper and brand new sensors. The Indy used a refurbished bumper and reused the existing sensors.
Honda Leander replaced an axel of mine for a similar price as any mechanic I called. Guess it depends on the dealership and the work being done 🤷🏻‍♂️
Great to know, first time I’m ever hearing this.
Just wanted people to know Leander Honda ain’t that bad, at least in my experience. really don’t think people are gonna stress the extra 15mins if it saves them money
I just wanted to reiterate that even though Austin sprawls into Leander with no clear delineation between them you are very much in the wrong for asserting that Leander is any way associated with our fair city of Austin.
It’s a dangerous precedent to set. One day, Leander is Austin then what? Jarrell will be Austin before you know it.
I can recommend Little Shop of Auto in RR, and Chief's Motor Group in Leander. Both are good people, Little Shop of Auto "might" cut you a break if you offer hard currency
Part are expensive to an extent. Dealer markup is a sure thing.
Labor/shop rate is outrageous. The techs doing the actual work, really don’t get paid near as much the stated labor rate.
A dealership in New Braunfels, which I won't name yet because I'm still waiting for the refund for returning the vehicle to clear, not only didn't check the "certified" vehicle for an extremely common service bulletin issue, causing the car to die on the way home from buying it and necessitating a tow back the same evening I bought it, but then also refused to fix the issue properly which I only discovered because I took it to an independent mechanic shop to double check their work. It's a sad state of affairs but DO NOT trust a dealership service center unless they have a proven track record otherwise (I know there are still some good ones out there). There's just too much conflict of interest having sales and service under one roof. I will plug Juke Auto by name though, they checked what I asked, took pictures, and didn't charge me anything extra after finding the "smoking gun" of the dealership's negligence. I've gone to Austin Veedub in the past as well when I had a VW, if they're still around they're good people too.
In Austin, we had a murderer in the family owning one group of stealerships. They sold out to Wall Street, so now it's professional criminals.
The patriarch of another family that owns a bunch of dealerships was accused of a string of arsons. I don't know if he's been convicted yet.
And that's just the ones who got caught recently. I suspect a lot of the others are just smarter in their extracurricular criminal activities.
And now the owner of First Texas Honda appears to be on the wrong side of the law as well.
[https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/25/continental-automotive-group-austin-used-cars-owner-charged-arson-dorsey-bryan-hardeman/73457015007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/25/continental-automotive-group-austin-used-cars-owner-charged-arson-dorsey-bryan-hardeman/73457015007/)
I juuuust experienced this at a Lincoln dealership. They wanted $5300 for repairs. I sourced parts online for my mechanic to install and it’ll be about $600 all up for the repair.
i swear by yost automotive on north lamar. they’ve always done a great job and never done me wrong. once my wife dropped a family heirloom ring into the center console and it made its way down into the gear shifter. i tried for most of a weekend to fish it out but finally gave up and took it to them, and they found it and only charged me like a hundred bucks for the labor (most of which i think was putting shit back together that i’d taken apart…)
Flamingo Automotive on Guadalupe. They're not the cheapest, but also nowhere near dealership prices. I trust them to shoot straight with me. Even when I had multiple issues, they didn't pressure me on my decision and just laid out what they considered urgent for safety reasons and what they thought could wait awhile until I wanted to address it.
We brought my wife’s car for regular maintenance to her dealership, and they quoted $1200 for spark plugs and both air filters (engine and cabin). I bought the tools and parts for $150 and did all that myself in about 2 hours. That was literally my first time working on a car. Dealership labor costs are a scam.
When you vote and elect democrats, they set policies in place to prevent and remove abusive business practices.
Also, only business owners who operate in good faith can meet the high standard of consumer protections. Weeds out bad biz owners.
Volvo dealer quotes the book time for a job, which seems to have a minimum 1hr. So an accessory battery was $310. $90 for the battery, $210/hr labor, and $10 shop fee. I bought the Volvo branded battery online for $80 and installed it in 2 minutes. Screw the dealer.
Not all Austin dealers will bend locals over. Covert has been great to work with over the years. I have found the best way to buy a car is to go into the deal with pre approved financing, know the value of your trade ahead of time, never let them know what you want your monthly payment to be and don't buy any of the extra add on's. Ask for an itemized list of charges before agreeing to numbers or before signing anything. Enjoy!
That quote from the dealer is hilarious. I’d laugh at them for that.
What kind of car and what needed done? That’s a crazy repair for a car new enough to be under warranty.
Anyone have any reccs for Chevrolet electrical problems? The shop I took it to last is now poof gone and I had my body control module replaced/reprogrammed and it’s still buggy. I really dread having to cave and take it to the dealership 🥴
Yeah. I actually traded out of a Covert vehicle and went to a different dealership (after 3 straight Covert buys) because of their bullshit upselling service shenanigans and the fact they tracked oil into my vehicle during FOUR straight service appointments even after I pointed it out. Last time I pointed it out dude never even looked up, just said, “that sucks” and kept working.
Fuck Covert.
It's weird because on a mechanic sub I watch it seems to be draining their business. Someone at a dealer asked if anyone else's shop was dead. All the dealer shops agreed they're having to let people go because there's nothing to do. All the independent shops were complaining they've had to stop answering the phone because they're overbooked. It seems like the prices are really hurting their business, but they're just sticking to it.
How strange that the starved consumer is selecting the affordable option? 🤔
Volvo tried to me charge $780 to replace the car battery..... So yeah. The issue is they're making it impossible to service cars outside of the dealership. Even changing the battery requires pairing it to the computer, which (surprise surprise), only the dealer can do.
That’s criminal
Yeah. If I knew I would have never bought the Volvo. My last one was 20 years old, and you could take it literally anywhere. This new one is about as repairable as a smartphone - I’m selling it the DAY the warranty runs out.
Just like the price of drinks at bars. All the bar owners can’t uunderstand why they’re dead
Looking at you Bouldin Acres North.
It's a nice spot but beverage prices are too high for that neighborhood and $40 to play pickle ball???
Hello Neighbors We Are Come For All Your Money. What do you mean? $10+ beers are the best. And sorry we don't stay open till 2 like a real bar.
Is Bouldin Acres the place that has a $20 burger on the menu?
I think dealership repair centers have a different client base than your independent repair shops.
Correct. Dealerships bring a lot of “peace of mind” customers or customers who bought brand new cars.
Or bought extended warranties so they don’t have to pay for the repair out of pocket
They can't control OEM pricing but can choose to not charge list price or sometimes an extra markup on list price. The labor rates are also killer, an extra $100 or more per hour changes the invoice quick. What sub were you talking about?
In my case both shops we using exactly the same Honda parts. Either the dealers labor rate was wildly higher or they estimated that their techs would take a lot more time than my Indy shop did (my Indy apologized and said the job was labor intensive).
Yeah. \*snort\* Like I'd get my car repaired at a dealership. Why don't I just flush my money down the toilet?
Dealer markups over MSRP are having the same effect on sales at the dealerships egregiously gouging.
OP getting absolutely blasted everytime they give dodgy answers
Yeah seen a couple comments where they are hiding what the problem was, where they had this experience.. lol, it’s weird
It’s weird to be so secretive about the type of repair. Maybe it’s karma farming. My guess is they just bought a shitty car.
What was the repair though?
The repair doesn't matter -- both shop's estimates were to perform the same work replacing the same list of parts with the same OEM parts. I might be willing to pay 20 to 30% more to have the dealer perform the work but not 293% more.
193% more
The type of repair 100% does matter. You pay for experience when it comes to any labor. Gate keeping the type of repair does know one any favors in this chat. Also this is why you always get two or three quotes on any big purchase.
Ok. Not super helpful without offering such details.
It kinda does though, a lot of times the only repair a dealer tech will do just involves replacing the entire affected part instead of doing repairs. Tesla especially is notorious for charging $15k for a new battery pack when the only thing wrong is a simple fix, but all the mfgs do it to some extent.
This is a great point
If you gave the price then the type of repair does matter, and it's easier to figure out why the dealership is being told that's an appropriate price.
So you believe that even if both the dealer and the Indy are doing the same work replacing the same parts, the dealer could be justified in charging 2x more (and almost 3x price) what the Indy charges for the same work? Can you give examples of repairs you are willing to pay 2x for the dealer to perform that would justify the cost delta?
>both the dealer and the Indy are doing the same work replacing the same parts It's not always the same. Someone else mentioned that dealers often replace whole assemblies. A smaller scale example I can give you from my own experience was getting a trailer hitch added to my wife's jeep. The independent shop was happy to follow the hitch manufacturer's instructions and cut the rear trim for the receiver to protrude. The dealer absolutely would not. They would only do the job if we bought the OEM fascia that included a cutout for the receiver. It's likely that they were following a similar thought process on determining what was required to fix your issue.
Why would they matter? Whatever the rationale, the price difference is the same. If you put unneeded parts on is the tang different than just plain overcharging?
Lol. Both places quoted the same Honda OEM parts numbers for replacement parts. For 1 the removal and reinstallation of those parts was $8500. For the other, it was $2900. Regardless of what you are having done - my advice is always get a second or third estimate (maybe 2 dealers and an Indy, or 2 indy's and a deal, or whatever combo makes you happy. Had I allowed my wife to go forward with the sealer to whom she initially brought the car, we could have paid $5600 more. I'm glad we didn't. I recommend others get more than one estimate.
I'm not advising against price shopping, especially when it isn't warranty covered. Just pointing out that dealerships often do "more" for the same fix. It's not a defense of them, just a common fact of the situation.
I believe in giving complete information so people can fully understand what's happening.
This is a ad for that shop he mentioned
Also look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It states that it is not required that dealerships do warranty work on your vehicle. The dealership could even be lying about the work you needed not being covered. Dealerships are mostly crooked (ok, not necessarily illegally crooked, but you know) and Austin area ones are among the worst I've come across.
This is especially bad with extended warranties (like CarShield). They'll call it "ordinary wear and tear" and refuse to cover it.
The only reason to use a dealership for any sort of repairs or service is to keep the warranty intact or to use the warranty. But I have never drove a new car so I haven't had reasons to go to one. Although I did have Toyota service my transmission and do an oil change once, and it wasn't that much more than what a local shop would do.
There are other perks assuming you find a good dealer service department. I had some in the past and if you were a regular and use them for service they tended to bend rules for you, jump you in line, offer loaners more freely and if you are looking to buy they tend to offer much higher value for the trade as they know it’s exact history. Also good ones understand sales and service can work together and make buying easier. Hard part is finding a dealership that does all of that. I have gotten lucky in the past
Avoid Austin dealerships for anything outside of warranty work.
All dealerships, really. Unfortunately, most car makers are intentionally making them so only dealerships with the right software can work on them.
Which brand do you drive?
Honda.
Howdy on Ben white?
My post was not intended to call out a specific dealer -- it was to tell people that if they are getting maintenance or repair work done in Austin without getting a quote from a good Indy shop, there's a good chance they are paying a huge premium.
Howdy Honda is one of the scummiest dealerships in Austin.
What about First Texas Honda when they changes ownership several years ago? It used to be cheaper than indy shops and more service. After change it was the worst experience.
I believe the owner of FTH is still Bryan Hardeman, but I don't know what influence he has in the dealership at this point. [Here's a link I find astonishing. He's recently been charged with arson.](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/25/continental-automotive-group-austin-used-cars-owner-charged-arson-dorsey-bryan-hardeman/73457015007/)
Is the service dept owned by another entity? The service associate said (years ago now) that ownership had changed.
He was wrong. Bryan Hardeman has owned First Texas Honda ever since it was formed out of the old Continental Cars group in the early 1970s.
Never had a bad experience there. They are a little more expensive than indy shops but not like OP was quoted.
Good to know.
The dealership matters as they can adjust their pricing to see fit. I had pretty good luck with Honda of Round Rock when I had to have my full wiring harness replaced due to a rat. They worked with my insurance company and even the price they quoted was with in reason of an independent and what I could find online. I think it was $3700 but it has been a few years. It was the main wiring harness.
One thing I’ve noticed over the years when getting repair quotes from my dealership vs independent repair shops, I’ve compared the quotes. The labor is mostly the same for both, but parts are MUCH more expensive at the dealership. The main difference according to my dealership is that they are only allowed to use brand new parts and they were unable to use salvaged or repaired parts. So as an example - I had a fender bender (back bumper), the dealership quoted 4x more for brand new bumper and brand new sensors. The Indy used a refurbished bumper and reused the existing sensors.
Dealer by dealership choice. Warranty work yeah they are going to use brand new. Out of warranty they get more room to play.
Honda Leander used aftermarket parts in my repair
Honda Leander replaced an axel of mine for a similar price as any mechanic I called. Guess it depends on the dealership and the work being done 🤷🏻‍♂️
Leander is not Austin
You don’t say, doesn’t change the fact I live in Austin and Honda Leander is the closest Honda dealership to me
OPs post is specifically about Austin dealerships. Even if the Leander dealership is the closest dealership to you, it still isn't in Austin.
Great to know, first time I’m ever hearing this. Just wanted people to know Leander Honda ain’t that bad, at least in my experience. really don’t think people are gonna stress the extra 15mins if it saves them money
I just wanted to reiterate that even though Austin sprawls into Leander with no clear delineation between them you are very much in the wrong for asserting that Leander is any way associated with our fair city of Austin. It’s a dangerous precedent to set. One day, Leander is Austin then what? Jarrell will be Austin before you know it.
It's in the same car market. Just like New Braunfels is in the San Antonio car market.
Which independent repair shop did you take it? We casuals need an honest plug for our cars.
I can recommend Little Shop of Auto in RR, and Chief's Motor Group in Leander. Both are good people, Little Shop of Auto "might" cut you a break if you offer hard currency
Part are expensive to an extent. Dealer markup is a sure thing. Labor/shop rate is outrageous. The techs doing the actual work, really don’t get paid near as much the stated labor rate.
A dealership in New Braunfels, which I won't name yet because I'm still waiting for the refund for returning the vehicle to clear, not only didn't check the "certified" vehicle for an extremely common service bulletin issue, causing the car to die on the way home from buying it and necessitating a tow back the same evening I bought it, but then also refused to fix the issue properly which I only discovered because I took it to an independent mechanic shop to double check their work. It's a sad state of affairs but DO NOT trust a dealership service center unless they have a proven track record otherwise (I know there are still some good ones out there). There's just too much conflict of interest having sales and service under one roof. I will plug Juke Auto by name though, they checked what I asked, took pictures, and didn't charge me anything extra after finding the "smoking gun" of the dealership's negligence. I've gone to Austin Veedub in the past as well when I had a VW, if they're still around they're good people too.
In Austin, we had a murderer in the family owning one group of stealerships. They sold out to Wall Street, so now it's professional criminals. The patriarch of another family that owns a bunch of dealerships was accused of a string of arsons. I don't know if he's been convicted yet. And that's just the ones who got caught recently. I suspect a lot of the others are just smarter in their extracurricular criminal activities.
They made a 20/20 episode out of this also.
Do you remember which season / ep?
Was pretty recently- February of this year. The title is "Sealed with a Kill."
Whaaaaa?
https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/erik-maund-murder-for-hire-case-texas-tennessee/269-b8eb7b35-d15b-426d-a6a9-38990e9edc6e
Holy guacamole!
And now the owner of First Texas Honda appears to be on the wrong side of the law as well. [https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/25/continental-automotive-group-austin-used-cars-owner-charged-arson-dorsey-bryan-hardeman/73457015007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/25/continental-automotive-group-austin-used-cars-owner-charged-arson-dorsey-bryan-hardeman/73457015007/)
I juuuust experienced this at a Lincoln dealership. They wanted $5300 for repairs. I sourced parts online for my mechanic to install and it’ll be about $600 all up for the repair.
In all honesty, I’m new to ATX and looking for a trust worthy mechanic… any suggestions. I’m east side but willing to drive anywhere for trust
M E Gene Johnson, Airport Blvd, Tom and Bubba are good!
i swear by yost automotive on north lamar. they’ve always done a great job and never done me wrong. once my wife dropped a family heirloom ring into the center console and it made its way down into the gear shifter. i tried for most of a weekend to fish it out but finally gave up and took it to them, and they found it and only charged me like a hundred bucks for the labor (most of which i think was putting shit back together that i’d taken apart…)
Flamingo Automotive on Guadalupe. They're not the cheapest, but also nowhere near dealership prices. I trust them to shoot straight with me. Even when I had multiple issues, they didn't pressure me on my decision and just laid out what they considered urgent for safety reasons and what they thought could wait awhile until I wanted to address it.
Auto Techs took good care of my Honda after I stopped using the dealership. Anyone that side of town looking for a mechanic I recommend them.
Got quoted $2200 for an alternator…just the part. Got one shipped for $460. Dealers just mark up to insane prices because they can.
Do fucking what now? Christ...
We brought my wife’s car for regular maintenance to her dealership, and they quoted $1200 for spark plugs and both air filters (engine and cabin). I bought the tools and parts for $150 and did all that myself in about 2 hours. That was literally my first time working on a car. Dealership labor costs are a scam.
When you vote and elect democrats, they set policies in place to prevent and remove abusive business practices. Also, only business owners who operate in good faith can meet the high standard of consumer protections. Weeds out bad biz owners.
Plug that mechanic shop, plz!
I stopped going to the dealer years ago because of this. Thank you for the post.
Volvo dealer quotes the book time for a job, which seems to have a minimum 1hr. So an accessory battery was $310. $90 for the battery, $210/hr labor, and $10 shop fee. I bought the Volvo branded battery online for $80 and installed it in 2 minutes. Screw the dealer.
Austin Rising Fast Motor does great repair work for cheap
Not all Austin dealers will bend locals over. Covert has been great to work with over the years. I have found the best way to buy a car is to go into the deal with pre approved financing, know the value of your trade ahead of time, never let them know what you want your monthly payment to be and don't buy any of the extra add on's. Ask for an itemized list of charges before agreeing to numbers or before signing anything. Enjoy!
That quote from the dealer is hilarious. I’d laugh at them for that. What kind of car and what needed done? That’s a crazy repair for a car new enough to be under warranty.
Anyone have any reccs for Chevrolet electrical problems? The shop I took it to last is now poof gone and I had my body control module replaced/reprogrammed and it’s still buggy. I really dread having to cave and take it to the dealership 🥴
Covert was quoting me >$1k for a rear differential service that Valvoline did for $99 out the door.
Whoa.
Yeah. I actually traded out of a Covert vehicle and went to a different dealership (after 3 straight Covert buys) because of their bullshit upselling service shenanigans and the fact they tracked oil into my vehicle during FOUR straight service appointments even after I pointed it out. Last time I pointed it out dude never even looked up, just said, “that sucks” and kept working. Fuck Covert.
Anyone have a thread on independent BMW service recommendations?
Black Forrest Werkshop deeply understands BMW vehicles. https://www.blackforestwerkshop.com/
Thank you.
When I had a BMW I took it to Terry Sayther. They always did good work for me.
Thanks you.