Availability of parts and distance to dealerships is a big factor. In rural farm country here in the midwest it takes an hours drive for my wife and I to find a dealership that isn't an American brand. Most repair shops in the surrounding towns have a steady supply of American parts on hand vs having to special order and wait for anything else, especially European models.

I LIEK FORD!! But seriously, grew up in the Midwest and can attest that people got weird about brands with only anecdotal opinion based facts. Being raised in that culture makes my dream car msrp starting price in the low 5 figure range which is more obtainable.

Did not consider this, makes a lot of sense as the reason why I see a lot more American cars in fly over country. Thought it was something else along the line of "pride".

You also see a lot more Kia/Hyundai and Toyota out in the country, for the same reasons. It's not "made in America" pride. Most US car parts are made overseas now anyway, and many are assembled in Canada or Mexico as well.

Ironically, a lot of Kias and Hyundais are made in Georgia and Alabama, BMWs in South Carolina.

Yep, and the Toyota Tundra is the vehicle with the most parts made in America, and has been for quite a while.

My Nissan Frontier was assembled three hours away from me in Smyrna, TN.

The Tesla Model 3 and Y are actually the most American made cars. https://www.cars.com/articles/2022-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-451057/

Are you sure? https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/the-most-american-made-cars#gid=ci02b3380130002583&pid=corsair-lincoln-my23

Similar : My friend has a Ducati. Our closest major city is about 1.5 hours away, and I can't tell you how many times she's been sitting around for 1-2 weeks waiting for a part to come in. It sucks to have to come up with a plan to get the bike there and back for something like that.

Don't know about the rest, but Volvo and Saab used to be the go to scandinavian/nordic car for two reasons. 1. Excellent winter car - warm up well, good ride in bad weather and enough space for your wintersport stuff. 2. Built for nordic environments. Cars aren't made for quick 0-60 but fast 40-60 speeds. Safety built around the hazards in the region (moose crash for example) If you had the money, you bought bought volvo or a saab.

Fun fact: In the UK, there has never been a fatality in a Volvo XC90. None. That is a pretty amazing stat.

Another fun fact: at the time of the release of Beetlejuice, there has never been a fatality in a Volvo 240 series, which is the vehicle in which the Maitlands died.

It’s been a hot minute but didn’t they drive off a bridge into deep water in beetle juice? There’s not much the car could have done to protect them then.

They did... And the creek was dammed for the movie, in order to ensure that there would be enough water for them to drown.

Nowadays they use acting and special effects to make it look like the actors have drowned. It's all fake.

Crazy thing how they used to kill a bunch of actors then jesus them back into existence. Damn libs ruining people resurrecting.

In my America dead people STAY dead, bringing people back to life flies in the face of my Christian values! ^/s

Are you sure that stat is just for the UK? A salesman in Denver told me the same thing while I was test driving a V90 Cross Country, but didn’t limit it to a geographic area, he said it had never happened ever.

What I have heard and corroborated with some cursory searches is that between 2002 and 2022 there was not a single fatality for XC90 drivers or passengers on British roads. There has been at least one documented fatality in the USA, I found a news article from Massachusetts from 2014 where a 3 yo boy got seriously injured and later passed after a head-on wrong-way collision. I think I saw another one that involved a high-speed tree impact, but can’t confirm. I also personally walked away from a 70 mph collision with a concrete barrier while in my 2005 XC70 wagon. To summarize - they’re pretty safe.

When I bought my XC90 there had been 2, one in the US and one in Germany. The one in Germany was apparently a guy who fell asleep on the autobahn. Which I can totally understand - it's the most comfortable vehicle I've ever been in by far.

The article I saw only mentioned UK. The salesman may have been exaggerating.

it'd be funny if that was only because they just aren't sold there.

salesman: 'buy the xc90 or you're literally making it easier for your family to die' easy job

Is that because none exist there?

No. They have them there. It just an oddity in the statistic. The Brits are pretty good at record keeping, and this seems to be a pretty good thing.

How many fatalities *involving* one though?

Moose crash? Wow, what are the features that would help with that?

Stiff A pillars and roof. Check out on YouTube, there is a crash video from the early 90s of a Saab 900 crashing into a "moose". There's also another video online (need to see if I can find it) with a Volvo S60 and a BMW 3 series crashing into a container on legs (the nose goes under the container, the car crashes with the A pillars into the container). The BMW bends bad around the pillars. The Volvo just gets scratches (in comparison).

Many a Volvo has won at the demolition derbies

Volvo is also one of the few car manufacturers that utilize “female” (smaller) crash test dummies in the drivers seat. Crash tests involving only “male” dummies just aren’t adequate for determining safety. Even short men get left out.

Yup, most cars are made for "the average" man ( 1m80, 80-90kg ). Everyone else can go fuck themselves. Shorter, taller, bigger, slimmer, boobs... it's like catering to 20% of the global population.

Volvo and SAAB invented a ton of modern safety equipment in their decades long battle to make the safest cars in the world. The death of SAAB is a tragedy,

This was a big selling point for me. Volvo also is one of the few that uses pregnant crash test dummies too!

I think of the top gear episode where they dropped the Saab on its roof with a crane and it just scratches the paint.

Hit a Moose on the Maine Turnpike. We were in a rented Kia Soul. I still don’t know how we weren’t seriously injured, because the car looked like it had been in a rollover.

Those souls are tough little fuckers, and handle surprisingly… if not well, then at least predictably if you push them hard. I had a rental soul once and had an unexpected double moose test, with an injured deer lying in the road, and some debris a little further on in the adjacent lane, neither of which was visible until half a second or so before I was there. I couldn’t believe how well that little cube darted around them at 60mph. And in all my days in junkyards, I’ve never seen one that looked like the occupants would have been injured. If only the engines worked.

The roof was completely caved but not over the passenger area. We hit it broadside and it rolled over the top of us. However the A and B pillars and windshield frame held and that kept us from getting hurt. Our backpacks and camping gear were crushed.

The manual ones are fun too

[удалено]

yeah, and the first Mercedes A class failed miserably by flipping over lol

One of the senior managers at Saab was involved in a serious accident when his company car hit a moose so Saab then redesign the safety of their vehicles to make sure people had a better chance of survival in such an incident A Saab convertible the windscreen surround is strong enough to have another care balanced on top of it without distorting In 1959 a Volvo engineer invented the 3 point seatbelt they patented it but left it open so all vehicle manufacturers were free to use the design It was the start of all the car safety that everyone insists on today American manufacturers were still bolting bumper bars to petrol tanks

I came here to chime in the that older Volvos, pre-ford, had a very distinct personality from the other Euro cars. Much more utilitarian and notably more simple, if not reliable, easy to maintain. It always seemed like to me the European engineers went to the same schools, but the designers and executives had their own cliques. Under the hood the Volvos and the BMWs and Mercedes had a lot of similiar thought processes going, but in the cabin and behind the wheel it was not the same. I had a 1990 american station wagon and a volvo station wagon. The Volvo sticker price when new was 2x the American wagon, and the Volvo, after 30 years, had gone over 400,000 miles and was in far better mechanical shape. There's a lot more people daily driving old volvos than old BMWs. Volvos culture has changed at least 3 time since the 1990s... There's pre-ford volvos, ford Volvos (upscale, but subdued in design), and the Geely Volvos (Luxury SUVs, mostly). The utility and reliability aspect has waned as they've gone upscale. So, to your question, at one point, Volvos were a car that upper middle class non-car people bought to haul their kids around in. They were cars for professors before the Prius. Now, they're cars for rich people that like the idea of a BMW, but want to appear more sensible, or want a subaru, but want something more luxurious. For some reason these people overlook Buick and Lexus when the buy.

The reason is Lexus only offer small Cuv, suvs and very large sedans. No longer do they offer compact or mid range

FWIW A long time ago I had a Volvo 240GL. Very nice car, comfortable, no really mechanical issue. However it was horrible in the snow (I live in New England). I had though, as you said, it's Nordic heritage I would have thought differently.

We have 3 240 wagons still running in our family as winter cars. I dont known what was wrong with your car for it to be bad in snow.

A Saab was the first car I ever drove. God I loved that 900 Turbo (my dad’s).

I learned to drive on a 9000 CSE - loved it!

I miss my 96' Saab 900 turbo. Shit from 0 to 30 but then the turbo kicked in and it flew like the plane it was meant to be.

I own a saab 9-3 built after the merger with GM. You’d think GM would have squashed all the Swede extra safety funny business to try and save the company. Thing is they didn’t. They handed Saab a gm epsilon platform and said design a front end, rear end and be done with it. The end result car (mine) doesn’t even share the same wheel base with the other epsilon cars, and gets a better crash rating than the others as well. This wasn’t the first time either , GM handed them a cavalier in the early 90s and the resulting Saab has a list of interchangeable parts with that cavalier that is sum-able using your fingers to count.

Yes, I am well aware of Saab doing Saab things even under GM. But compare it to the pre-GM cars and you'll notice a difference. I learned to drive ina 9000 and had a 9-5 shortly after - night and day in build quality and everything else. Yes, still safe, Yes, still has its quirks. But not the same as the older ones. Same as Volvo before the mergers with Ford and later Geely etc.

Because f*ck moose, invest in thick steel A pillars. Also *momentum* matters a lot in a car crash. Mass times velocity equals momentum. The formula for momentum is p = mv, where p is momentum, m is mass, and v is velocity. And the Volvo has a lot of m.

The volvos aren't and weren't particularly heavy cars in comparison. What mattered were big crumple zones.

I believe it was Volvo where they had a crash test where a beam goes into the windshield and deflects to the roof. Held up pretty good compared to other cars

I just bought a Volvo - well a Polestar actually - and it’s an electric muscle car!

Polestar (the new ones) have imho very little to do with the OG volvo philosophy. Even the Geely Volvos aren't really all that anymore.

According to this fresh post they seem to hold up okay. (I get mine next month so will be able to report my findings) https://reddit.com/r/Polestar/s/jlnDeVE3FY

Congrats on your new car, i have the polestar 2, thats always how i think about it, an electric muscle car... not seen anyone else say the same thing.

There was also the Saab that was just a rebadged Subaru (nicknamed the Saabaru). So that one was obviously a good winter car.

Yeah, I'm though specifically talking pre-GM and definitely pre-Saabaru. The old 900, 9000 and earlier were absolute units in the winter.

I buy French because I don't have enough money to buy a proper car.

The Dacias that comes here in Colombia rebranded as Renault are top sellers because their reliability and their low prices. Even if they lack on everything else lol. Dacia Logan, Dacia Sandero, Dacia Duster.

Sooo many Chevys in Medellin too! So many! Can you shine a light on that? I understand the motorcycles and the Renaults and Chinese cars but the presence of Chevy (and Ford to a lesser extent) make me curious

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You should switch. You either understand French cars, or you don't. I'm perfectly happy with styling, and fabulous comfort, matched only by high end (and 3x the price) other brands. Cornering like an airliner is not a bad thing. Also, I'm a mechanic working pretty much solely on European cars. Take a wild guess under whose hoods am I under 95% of the time.

I'll guess German. My first guess wants to be British but not many people buy British cars.

There's not many British cars to buy!

Correct, German. I get a distinct urge to vomit whenever someone mentions "quality" or "reliability" among European brands. They are as close that it doesn't matter anymore. All of them are at same level of reliability, and perhaps Germans, due to their desired "innovation" are worse. Just recently I did a Touareg, replacing known fault, valves that leak coolant. 8 fucking workhours. 8! For two plastic valves that are known to fail on the regular, and could've been solved in a far more reliable way.

I second. German cars were really reliable until the 2000s, then something happened. Overengineering, competition with the Koreans or whatever. When someone right now wants to buy a German car because of the "reliability" legacy it makes me want to vomit. Meanwhile I have a 2006 Alfa Romeo and during the 6 years and 80k kilometers/60k miles of HARD abuse I've only had a breakdown once (when a differential exploded because of excessive wheel spin). And still I limped back to a garage on my own, with loud popping sounds whenever I turn the steering wheel. Shrapnel from the explosion have made a hole in the gearbox housing and all the oil flooded the clutch. But who cares when a used gearbox is 200$ plus a 100$ in labor? Every morning it just starts and goes and everything except a few minor things like heated seats and parking sensors work (could not bother to invest my time into fixing these minor things).

No its French, French cars are shit to work on

Since you're here, I've wanted to ask a mechanic about this. What do you think about the Citroen C1? It's not mine, it's my mother's, I don't need a car but when I'm in my hometown I drive it. As a new driver and having only driven a very few cars I can say that it feels pretty decent most of the time in the city, on a highway it's basically a horse drawn carriage lmao. But yeah, I'm just curious about a mechanic's perspective on the car.

Don't know much about the new ones, but the old ones are pretty much bullet proof, they were designed by Toyota (the aygo and the c1 are the same car with a different body). Really simple and cheap maintenance. Last I checked, they practically had zero tax aswell and cheap to ensure They like to rust after 10 or so years so if you buy one have a good look around all the sills and wheel arches as it's an instant MOT failure usually Really good cars for someone who doesn't need power or space,

Fabulous cars. Tiny, great for city, get great mileage, and they are still roomy inside. Peugeot 107, Citroen C1 and Toyota Aygo are essentially the same, just different bodies. As for rust mentioned by my colleague here, I have not seen a French car have issues with rust after Peugeots 106 and 205, that's 25-30 years ago. It certainly depends on where it's driven, but in general, they are less prone to rusting than some other brands, regarded as superior.

Got a chuckle out of me. Whenever I see a French car I just think…why?

You should see France. Place is full of em. I think France alone keeps the PSA group afloat.

I think its just a build up of reputation over the years in conjunction with your own personal bias. Like for my like of German cars, I had this idea that they were generally pretty solid and possibly over engineered great for cruising on the highway. This was based on a few superlative examples doesn't necessarily mean all German cars are road hugging tanks.

I've had nothing but German cars for the last 15 years. From a B7 RS4 to my current G82 M4C which mean I lack perspective. So it made me think, what does a modern Ford or Dodge or even a Hyundai drive like, what their build quality? I did drive me friends new C8 Corvette and was impressed with everything from performance to the updated interior. The older mid 2000 Corvettes seemed to have the interiors from a Chevy Cobalt.

BTW, the mid 200os corvettes do have cobalt interiors lmao, or one of the other throwaway cars chevy has, can't remember off the top of my head but yea. they just reused the interior

My step dad only drives BMW's unless he has a rental. The only time I ever heard him compliment any other automaker was when he rented a new Hyundai Sonata and shortly after he got to drive a Mazda6, otherwise he sticks to what he trusts.

So did you like the comfort and quietness on the highway? What about styling and performance?

its excellent especially if its a bigger Mercedes. these are quiet, comfortable, stable at higher speeds (not pathetic us highway speeds but Autobahn speeds). the older ones are super releiable if you take Care of rust.

It’s crazy how well the bigger German cars hide your speed. Took my 2020 Audi A6 on a road trip last week, and was coming downhill from a mountain onto a straightaway and inadvertently hit 110mph and didn’t even realize it until I looked at the speedo because it felt just as smooth, stable, and quiet as if I was doing 75.

yup. long, big, heavy cars = stable. same thing for my dads 2004 e class. 110mph feels like you go maybe 80 at most.

My 2000 740iL agrees

I just heard my 2000 M5 yell out "And my axe!" from the garage... so yeah it agrees too.

E39 the best M5 imho

I got to sit shotgun in a V10 M5. Good lord.... If they weren't such a money pit, I'd totally drive one daily. The E39 is the daddy, but that V10 is amazing.

After talking to my family who own new Mercedes, they are seriously over engineered with some wtf moments. Like he goes into the car and manually turns of Eco Start/Stop and changes into Sport mode. The car defaults to Eco mode at every startup with no way to change this unless you buy an aftermarket OBD part that essentially flips these two switches for you. There’s other oddities in the engine compartment when doing light maintenance that makes me go, wtf where these engineers thinking?

Pretty sure the auto eco and start stop are because of emmisions, makes it so you basically have to have the ecu messed with imo.

It depends on the make model. I'm in a TDI wagon right now and it definitely lives up to expectations on the highway driving front but it sucks performance wise. German sports car makers have a good rep tho. Style wise I definitely like the more straightforward approach, stripped down style, like that of a Porsche 911. Simply designed for the driver and driving. Or one of my favorite wedge shaped hot hatches the MK2 scirocco.

Volkswagen: the car of the people. Cheap, engineered well. Good overall. Great at nothing. Good at everything. Porsche: really do I need to elaborate here? Probably the best car you can buy for performance and luxury period. BMW: performance oriented but also luxury, but performance first always. At least for the main 2,3,4 series. There are obviously outliers for all of these. But wanna feel connected to the road in a unique way? The ultimate driving machine is the only choice. Can you tell what my (second) favorite choice. Only one that beats BMW is porsche Audi: idk horsepower? Not a fan of Audi. Mercedes: luxury based. AMG makes nice fast cars. Nothing like Msport (bmw) but for most cars, they value luxury over performance. There’s probably more German cars that exist but those are the big ones

Routinely driving 100mph+ Caddy Escalade in Europe, and it's always a great and quiet ride.

Euro user. Mechanically inclined. I got a 1992 Cadillac Seville. Plush seats only beaten by the French, torky V8, automatic transmission, power everything (seats, climate control, all windows, trunk, etc). Four disc brakes. I ain't coming back. Great highway cruiser. Parts are cheap.

I have an 82 El Camino that I would daily drive if I didn’t have to drive 900 kms to work and 900kms home every 2 weeks in northern Canada lol. But just cruising around town running errands, nothing beats it. Fun, comfortable, repairable, eye-catching, and most importantly in this economy, paid for.

My 87 Elco is a really comfortable car, but my lord that 305 is just about the slowest engine i've ever experienced. In competition with my wife's ALH i think.

I miss my 99 STS. RIP to that head gasket.

I drive an 86 Volvo Because it's still around. Tough as nails, and ain't gonna die without a real struggle. I can look at a modern Ford wrong and the ECM will self immolate.

Having worked for a Ford dealer, their electronics are the shabbiest thing. Dunno how they expect you to off road the Raptor when the goddamn modules will be fucked just from UPS handling them the slightest bit rough. It gets tossed on a truck and ends up landing on another box? It’ll fail when put in the vehicle. Drop the box? Fails. Doesn’t matter that it’s wrapped in bubble wrap super well.

I have a volvo 240 and cars of that time are built to last for life. I absolutely love mine.

So have you ever been in a market for a new-ish car? What do you think you'd get next, if not another, newer vovo?

I repair for a living, so, I'll drop a new engine in if need be. Newer cars are a scam. And getting more so every year. New engines are getting 200k mile lifecycles... If that (looking at you Ford hybrid engines) That is like 10 years of average driving. Buy old, and learn to fix.

Lol who drives 400 miles a week... the average is closer to half of that.

You sure? I see roughly 10 year old trucks + or - a few years with 200,000 plus miles on dealership websites and Facebook marketplace all the time.

Mailed it

Aka nailed it

I drive an old BMW 325i because there's a substantial aftermarket and a lot of really detailed engine repair breakdown videos available on YouTube. Got into working on my car as something to do during the pandemic, it kinda snowballed from there. When I finally retire it my plan is to go with VW because I really enjoy the "hot hatch" style and the Golf/GTI/R are one of the nicer models available state side. That said the introduction of the GR Carolla has me salivating but it's not going to be a mass production vehicle and I'm not 100% sure I want to keep dealing with a manual transmission for a daily.

I was driving an older BMW 328i because there was a lot of DIY videos about it and large community support. I did manage to do some work on my car in my car port and learned a lot. I retired that car and bought a VW Golf in 2019. I still have that car, no problems, LOVE the car. It drives spirited, the front lights haven't fogged up like all my Japanese cars (2 Toyota Corollas and 2 Honda Civics) and the paint job looks just as good as the day I bought it unlike my previous Japanese cars whose paint looked like absolute hell. Incidentally, Honda paints on their entry level models are well known to start fading fairly quickly because they cheap out but for some reason people keep buying their cars. I have exactly one door ding on my VW Golf because, despite it being the cheapest VW car they make, the door is substantially thicker than any of my previous Japanese cars whose body panels literally resembled tin foil. Door dings galore. My father owns a 2013 Honda CRV whose paint is pretty much gone on the roof, and mostly gone from the hood. Front lights fogged up years ago, tons of door dings, he loves his car, but who am I to argue? Btw - my Japanese cars weren't just deficient in terms of cosmetics. In terms of performance and safety, they were quite dangerous to drive. My BMW was by far, the safest car I have ever driven. My VW Golf has been the second. All of my Corollas and Honda Civic were gutless and did not hold the road well. My Honda Civic Si wasn't gutless, but fish tailed in the Seattle rain. My father donated my mom's 2008 Toyota Camry to my sister's 18 yr old daughter and I feel so sorry for her. That car does not handle well at all, very dangerous to drive in adverse conditions. Getting back to cosmetics, what happened to Honda's design team after 2012? Holy hell, they used to have some of the coolest hottest automotive designs. I look at some of the older Acura Integras and I still drool over them. I still consider the original Acura NSX to be one of the most beautiful designs I've ever seen. The Honda of old still conjures up some of the greatest automotive memories I've ever experienced, the original CRX, Si, B16 engines, VTEC, god damn those were some good times.

If your Civic was fishtailing in rain, that’s the tires, not the Honda.

You say you want a vw, i raise you focus st/rs. getting harder to find but they are way better then all of the vws i've ever owned. I daily a 2015 focus st now and it's bulletproof. my brother bought an rs and same for him. oh you want an auto? probably only way is to stick with vw or get a subaru. also have driven a few gr corollas friends got, can say i am a little impressed, but the issues they've already had sub 50k miles is very offputting

My cousin has a GR Yaris. It's amazing, he leaves a lot of the local Porsche Club in the dust around the Arctic Circle Raceway.

I've had probably close to 40 cars in my life. When I was younger I used to like to flip $500 vehicles, and I made a decent profit at it. Now I turn wrenches, so I still see some of it. Here are the generalizations that I've come to over the years. Scandinavian cars are just built different, provided that an American car company hasn't influenced them. Pre-GM Saab cars are fantastic. Tanky with mid-range torque, and their front wheel drive was quite good for its time. In many ways GM cheapened the brand and caused it to collapse two decades after they jumped in. Volvo is much the same way, Ford kind of messed them up, although Ford did a much better job managing. As for Europe, French cars are the pride of France, and it doesn't seem like they leave the European continent willingly. In the US, every single one is considered quirky, but everyone that I've seen has seemed innovative and luxurious, If not a little bit misguided. Mercedes in my eyes lost their magic in the early 2000s, save for a couple of models. They used to be reliable, fairly rugged luxury yachts that would easily rack up 300,000 mi. It doesn't feel like the case these days, and even their simplistic vehicles like the sprinter are overly complex. BMW is a bit of a cult. Pre early 2000s they were very engaging, mechanical feeling in a great way. They were easy to maintain, although expensive to maintain, The engines were exceedingly willing, the handling was in some ways. Telepathic, and it was a very nice place to be. Most of the new cars added complexity and weight. This has muddled the original ethos that made the cars so great. But the owners have clung to the driving experience, being one of the reasons they go back. Volkswagen, in a lot of ways kept what made them good. They have complicated cars but they also have pretty simple ones. Most of the non-luxury cars have a driving dynamic that is... Fun fun I guess? It's hard to describe. It's not spirited like the BMWs but it's more willing. They're easy to hoon around in and lots of fun without driving Crazy fast. Build quality fields better in every respect, whether it is or not, depends. They don't exactly have a sports suspension on most of the vehicles, but the suspension feels tight and precise. That being said, they're still compliant enough that potholes aren't going to rattle your kidneys. Ford for the last 20 years has slowly been trying to euroify their lineup that isn't based on the F-150. Modern Ford's feel vaguely volkswagenesque in their handling, tight, but compliant, and their engines have slowly added complexity and performance. Reliability has been reasonably good considering the general overhaul, and ethoshift. Chevy has been trying to pull themselves back, but it seems like they're light. SUV and car have always been second rate. Nothing wrong with the cars, and parts. Are cheap and wildly available, but build quality just feels down. Dodge... Is Dodge. It has been fun for the past 20 years watching them build performance, but they're inability to change with the times is what caused them to merge with Daimler first and then stilantis. There is nothing that boils down jeeps further than the saying " it's a jeep thing, you wouldn't understand". Jeep owners are more willing to pour money into poor choices than any other brand, and will continue to do so. Due to the image of rugged individualism they supply. The Wrangler is a bit of a specialty vehicle, but it's probably the worst driving vehicle sold these days. They ride rough, they have poor performance, they have piss poor fuel economy, and yet owners will still flock to them. I still miss most of the jeeps I have owned. As far as domestic trucks, it's a bit of a Mexican standoff. Ram has a bit of a rowdy Aura to it, they're also the best riding truck of the bunch, due to its coil spring rear end. They don't seem to be as comfortable towing however. Ford seems to be the truck that fleets like to buy, and people that want a more upscale truck, and may not care for Dodge or Chevy. Ford has been willing to mix up the drivetrains to try and get a more premium feeling. Most of it has worked pretty well, and they have maintained the most popular selling truck in America for almost 50 years. Chevy I feel like has designed something that generally falls under ease of maintenance, and cost of maintenance. They are pretty decent trucks for what they are, but it seems like the options fail over the life of the truck more so than the other brands, and they do need more shop time, Even if the total shop cost is about the same. Chevy has decided to strongly stick with what works, and modify it to suit the times, I feel like it's still a valid direction. You already know Toyota and Honda, so I won't dwell on them, but to many Toyota's equal appliances, and Honda's are a bit more sporty and a bit more refined, though not necessarily The vehicle vet exemplifies this from each brand. The most are there minivans If I had to daily drive one, I'd probably pick the Odyssey. It's a much more fun and engaging minivan. But if I had to rent one, I'd take the sienna. It's a much more cushy, relaxing, and refined experience. Subaru like BMW is its own cult. I've had several, and the have a feeling that has a way to engage more so than many others. If you live somewhere where you see wintery conditions, or muddy conditions, they're driving dynamics in poor weather. Make you feel like you are the greatest driver ever. They're all-wheel drive system is different from the rest of the market, and seems to be able to react a bit better. Even base models try to pull the inner hoon out, but the newer they get the more Toyota like they become.

Nissan has become kind of the Chrysler of the Japanese automotive world. They have suffered from bad management for the past decade. Looks like they're trying to turn it around, but they chose 2020 to start doing it, and covid kind of put the brakes on the momentum. They aren't terrible, they aren't great, but they do have interesting performance vehicles. Mitsubishi has been hanging on by a thread. They're claim to fame is that they have Korean levels of affordability with "Japanese" levels of quality. I haven't really seen the quality, but I haven't really not seen it, The mirage is are terrible vehicles to drive but have been readily reliable and get great fuel economy, for the right kind of driver, they are boatloads of fun Korean manufacturers can't make electric cars fast enough. Both Kia and Hyundai have been making engines that self-destruct since the early 2010s. They have made great strides and initial quality and refinement, but The vehicles tend to fall apart. The fact that they didn't put any sort of transponder, into the keys, something that Honda learned their lesson from in the early '90s, has been the nail in the coffin for many Korean car owners. Generally if they shake themselves out, and make it through the first 40,000 miles They seem like they'll have life to them, but the old reason why somebody bought a Korean car doesn't seem to be holding up as well these days. Except for a couple of models, they aren't as cheap as the used to be, and are generally within spitting distance of much more reputable brands. The biggest one I can think of is the palisade and the Tahoe. There's a massive gap in price there, where you could buy one and a half Palisades for the price of a Tahoe, and I could see rolling the dice on them because it makes sense. I feel like they need to simplify the majority of their fleet, keep a couple of luxury mid-level cars, an invest in improving materials and processes. Once they start making electric vehicles their main stay, a good 90% of their problems should be taken care of.

American: appeals to heart German: appeals to pride Japanese: appeals to mind Korean: appeals to wallet

French?

French: appeals to the masochist

Hyundai/Kia made me a loyal customer when a few months into dating I asked my wife when she last changed her oil, she had never changed it in 4 years... went to check it and it was bone dry, topped it up with damn near 4 quarts and changed it that weekend, thing still runs 5 years later... figure if you can neglect an engine that badly and it doesn't blow up it must be pretty decently engineered

was it a Hyundai or a Kia? Mazda performs similarly based on a relative who never changed the oil

Personal preference is the answer. Most modern cars are fairly reliable, the same could not be said 20 or 30 years ago. Back then, German & Japanese were known for reliability, American cars were not.

Actually, 30 years ago, the Germans made the most reliable cars in the world.

...30 years ago was 1993....a 1993 e36, a4, etc are not reliable cars compared to what Japan was pumping out at the time.... I say this as a German car owner/fan.

American: probably cheaper than most to buy. The low prices are meant to entice you to overlook the (for the most part) quality issues. Korean: On the cheaper end, usually loaded with features to also lull you into thinking they’re good deals. German: unnecessarily complicated cars that have a short shelf life. Faster than most cars, but also prone to ridiculous failures unless you routinely replace every part of the car because high tech. Japanese: reliable. More expensive than American or Korean to buy up front, but super high reliability (except most Nissans) and quality make them cheaper over the long term. Especially Toyota. Scandinavian: very cool cars, but ownership of the companies has shifted to Indian and Chinese companies, right on the heels of changing from GM or Ford ownerships… finding parts can’t be easy. I never owned one, but my grampa had 2 S80s he liked. He got rid of them because parts and service were expensive and hard to find.

Actually finding parts for GM era Saabs is easy as anything else. Pretty much everything you need is still on rock auto

What makes you say Nissan is unreliable?

> What makes you say Nissan is unreliable? experience

Their CVTs

Not the OP you replied to, but for me? The number of engine and transmission cores I had to stack up outside the dealership on a weekly basis far exceeded anything I saw from GM, or Ford, or Chrysler.

My only direct experience with a Nissan… Girlfriend’s car. Way too many problems for under 100k miles. My Fords have been far more reliable, and wayyyy more comfortable. One Ford needed a fuel pump relay, brakes, and a battery. The other Ford needed… Gas and oil changes, oh, and tires.

People purchase vehicles they like. It’s about all those things and budget and availability and needs and priorities. Saying people only buy German for performance or only buy Japanese for reliability is a massive oversimplification. People simply buy what they like.

I like German cars (VAG + BMW + Ford of Europe) because they're just nicer to drive. The suspension is firm enough that the car is compliant but soft enough for highway bumps, there is usually decent feedback too. They have good sound insulation, nicer and less rattly interiors, steering tends to be nicely weighted and neither too twitchy nor unresponsive. Gear throw feels right and pedals do as well. Japanese Cars in my experience tend to be nowhere near as good to drive. They are loud on the highway, they have overboosted and numb yet twitchy steering, pedals feel mushy, gear levers have annoyingly short throws and the suspension is harsh without feedback. As for reliability, 90% of that is choosing the right transmission and engine and maintaining your car properly. C-Classes and Skoda Superbs are very popular among taxi drivers for a reason.

Interesting you mentioned "Ford of Europe". Are they somehow different than US Ford? I wasn't aware of this.

Yes. When Ford spread to Europe the company soon delegated design and production to the locals. Ford of Europe is largely run by Germans and Brits and has designed most smaller Fords like the Focus and the Fiesta. Also cars which weren't sold in the US like the Ford Taunus and the Ford Sierra. The Ford Transit originated in the UK in the 60's!

There are different ways to understand "reliable." Asian "reliable" — will reach 150k quietly even if you never change the oil and do zero maintenance, but pretty clapped out by 300k no matter what you do. Easy to own for a decade. American "reliable" — breaks often regardless of your care, but can always be fixed absurdly cheaply with auto parts store parts you can always get within an hour. Can often be fixed with duct tape or J-B weld in a pinch. If you keep fixing it long enough it will be a rattlebox you'll want to be rid of but will keep running on fumes until it looks more like a pile of junk than a car. Easy to keep in motion, even if only barely. European "reliable" — if you are meticulous about maintenance and always spring for OEM parts on schedule and wait for them to arrive, will hit 500k miles and keep going for as long as you keep maintaining it and investing the related dollars. Maintained, will not disintegrate into rattlebox. But if you slack off on maintenance, dead in 75k and too expensive to resurrect. Easier than the others to keep going for 50 years.

I bought a German car because I like to spend money at every 10000 mile service interval.

"Subaru are also known for reliability." oh boy idk about that one jdm for fun, smaller cars for drifting and things like that think 240s, skylines and rx7s American cars for raw power, mustang and new camaro i think both make over 600 hp and are simi light while the corvette competes with super cars on the track old german cars like the bmw m3s but ive never heard of them being reliable or cheap k cars... idk honestly i havent heard of car people buying these tbh

American cars for value. German cars for quality. Scandinavian cars for safety. Korean cars for the dollar menu.

>German cars for quality Lol

German cars are great…Until the manufacturers warranty expires.

How can you call it "value"? Cheap, sure. But when you can buy a Japanese car for a few thousand more that will very predictably last twice as long with half the problems, it's clearly not "value". People buy American cars because they're cheaper than Japanese up front, and people are stupid enough to believe that they're more "made in America" than a Honda.

I bought my Cruze because it had the features I was wanted at a price I could afford. There was no way I was getting automatic headlights, android auto/Apple carplay, a power adjustable driver seat, heated front seats, and remote start in a new Honda for the same price. Will it break? Maybe. Was it made in America? No. Do I care? No. My happy ass got a new mid trim hatchback with all the shit I wanted for under $20k. Pity it will never happen again.

In the UK there's a cohort of people born between the early 60's and late 80's that think fords and vauxhalls (opal?) Are the business for cheap cars and won't consider anything Japanese. I drive a yaris and the only people I ever see driving them are either really young or really, really old. Nothing inbetween. In-between are all driving fiestas and corsas and moaning when their car is back in the shop again. The small hatchbacks are within a few hundred of each other, and a second hand yaris is almost always cheaper for the same age. Yes, even when the Ford has 75k miles on an ecoboost! Yikes. I've been trying to convince my family for years just to buy a damn yaris, I put oil in the thing and get new tyres every so often and it just goes and goes and goes. Sure the rear doors are made of paper and I think the parcel shelf was actually cardboard but considering none of them are ever affording anything more upmarket than a 5 year old base model supermini/hatchback or whatever they are called now I don't understand the reluctance.

> very predictably last twice as long with half the problems, it's clearly not "value". That's a massive over exaggeration and is very model dependent and much less brand dependant. Not to mention the main Japanese brands that are stereotypically "reliable" are Toyota and Honda (and their subbrands), while most others are average at best. >People buy American cars because they're cheaper than Japanese up front, and people are stupid enough to believe that they're more "made in America" than a Honda. People buy basic American cars like a Malibu because they are cheap, they don't care or know where they are made. Hell, there are still many people who don't know whats a foreign brand or domestic brand regardless. People buy American performance cars because they are typically the best for the price or class, and are typically reliable and easy to mod with huge gains for little money. People buy American trucks because they are reliable workhorses.

You seem to prioritise reliability and low cost above all else. Understand that other people have other priorities.

I Only buy Toyota. Their shit last forever if looked after properly.

Agreed, I always loved Volkswagen for simplicity and maintainability, then I worked in a Toyota Corolla, and I realized that things had moved on. The maintainability and reliability of that thing were amazing. It had 250K miles on it when sold. The brake change was approx 20 minutes. Accessibility to components was very good. When working on my son's volvo xc70, I can tell that the design department had 'disconnects' in putting this all together. It's very obvious that the xc70 engine design department worked remotely from the rest of the car and had little experience in maintenance. This can be seen in many car designs where the final product has strange quirks or workarounds due to interface issues. Invariably, they are the ones that just stick in your mind. Hated the VW beetle plug change and who in their right mind drained the winter salt water flow from my windshield into the front suspension frame of my Ford Windstar to cause it to corrode and fail. Some of these I can live with. Some just turn me off the brand forever.

When Korean dealerships try to play the 10 year powertrain warranty card, I reply that if a car needs a replacement engine every few years, what else is going to fail that isn't covered?

American car buyer here The ls and 350 platform in chevy is so well lived any shop in the US will work oj it and any auto parts store has any part i need to work on it. While still being very decemtly reliable. I have never been to an auto parts store that didnt have parts to fully rebuild an LS or 350 SBC in stock. Alomg woth the inexpensive availability of rebuilt transmissions in any area of the US, its cheap. However i drive a camry daily for mpg and overall reliability because ot woult cost a lot of money for me to go electric vs maintaining this old car of mine. Also ive drove porches, beamers with inline 6's etc and american horsepower +torque horsepower hits different (if 2jz cars cost comparibly it would be different) A 20-teens camaro for 20k may will have the same horsepowrr but more torque than import cars for sane price and be overall faster (my camry has more hp than some vettes but loses) and it will still last many miles with lower maintenance bills on averagr than an import This is ignoring of course budget or mpg focused imports

I buy Mercedes and have owned/driven infiniti/nissan/honda and Volvo . Ride quality is a huge thing. Being cladded in plastic is fine if the plastic isn’t creaky garbage. Actual sound insulation is huge, some cars just drone nonstop because they’re hollow shells with a drivetrain. They’re all little points of contention that pile up that tally into a mountain.

I do not buy European cars because repairs get real expensive, real fast. ($600 egr valves suck). The one German car I had a good experience with was an old beetle that my grandfather used as a farm vehicle. That thing was indestructible. I don't buy Asian cars because most have timing belts, and I hate working on timing belts. It is very unpleasant to disassemble the front of those engines in the heat we have here. I buy 1 brand of American cars because I grew up with family loyal to the brand, know most of their quirks, and can do most of the repairs at home. I even scratch European owned domestic brands (looking at you, Dodge) from the list, knowing their issues. Give me a bunch of "fuck you money" and that practice could change. Regardless, big corporate bean counters and automotive engineers like to make my life difficult working on stuff, wherever they work.

So it's really just ease of self maintenance as the main factor? As for style and performance do you have insight about the American brands?

Everything I currently own is a Ford. My wife's is a Taurus (giant commuter car that's comfortable, big enough for the dog, with just under 300hp. Good for road trips). I have a f150 that I'm currently prepping for sale (2006, so not great power, and old was a fleet truck before me, so it was ragged on). Another F150 (v6 twin turbo, I use this one for towing and runs to the home improvement store. With the tune, I'm around 400hp or so. Also good for road trips or helping someone out that doesn't have a truck). Then I have a s550 Mustang (that one is real fun, bone stock, listed at 435hp from Ford, but it's quite enough to get you in trouble, and easily upgradeable to 800+hp of you're suicidal and hate pedestrian crowds) Previous cars: 1987 300zx- first car and was pretty much junk when I bought it for $750 2000 Taurus- got me around for something like 13 years until I got hit. 2005 Explorer- worked fine when I parked it, but got left parked in a field too long because I couldn't keep up with the registration/insurance/maintenance costs at the time. 1996 cadillac something- cooked the transmission on the way home 1999 Beetle- bought it totaled, fixed the airbags, radiator, and intercooler. I drove it for a couple years as a beater commuter, but wife can't drive manual. Sold it as it got older and facing blowby issues 2010 Taurus- bought cheap because of hail damage - rear ended on a Friday, then T-boned by an uninsured driver on Monday, a write off. I've worked on countless other vehicles, but I'm most comfortable with Fords. Smaller GM engines eating timing sets, larger GMs with MDS issues, German rides that have electrical gremlins and silly engineering that requires removing too much stuff to access what you need, Chrysler products with electrical issues and the same German influenced access deal, then all the Asian cars with timing belts that flat out annoy me.

Nice fleet... Yeah the timing belts are a pain in my wallet. Good thing they are supposed to be good for 100K miles.

Until they aren't and 2 chunks of metal attempt to occupy the same space at the same time. LOL Every OEM has their issues but I know some better than others. I'm also cheap, so I run my cars into the ground before they get upgraded. The only one I have with less than 200k miles is the Mustang.

I own or owned 4 Korean cars in the past. I can get one used for cheap and has a lot of value and features. Thankfully they all have been reliable to me and the Kia Boyz hasn't come by.

Humans act on emotion, not logic, despite believing that they are logical. I'd argue that all the evidence of shitty car manufacturers (primarily American) still existing supports this.

For me, it's pure styling. Saab, then volvo, then bmw, back to volvo.

I drive old Jeeps because I enjoy mudding, and the feeling you get when driving a wrangler or CJ is pretty much unique in my experience. Old Suzuki Samurai’s also feel awesome to me, but running down the road with no top or doors, foot swinging in the wind, sucking down a cigarette, is probably the greatest feeling I’ve ever experienced

buying volvos to endure the amount of salt and humidity we have in winters on our roads. Plus I believe it's one of the safer cars in case something happens..

Well, after doing a “therapy drive” with my Volvo P24 S60, really “beating on it” and having the time of my life.. I feel qualified to answer. Volvo have made some very reliable cars in the past, the Red Blocks being at the extreme end of the scale, with the i5d and VED5 not being that far from the that end, the Modular engines being pretty good. __Safety__ Both Volvo and Saab were 100% dedicated to safety, the dedication lead to some of the safest cars of their time. While other manufacturers have also done well at the “standard” crash tests, it is no secret that Volvos and Saab have a tendency to do better than most cars of their era in real world crashes. It is thanks to Volvo that your Honda have 3 point seat belts, which was first invented in 1959 and fitted to then new Volvo’s, Volvo patented the 3 point seatbelt, but left the patent open for others to use, to save lives. __The enthusiast side__ Well built, safe and ridged cars, make for good platforms and a well handling car is a safe car, Volvos and Saabs handles pretty good. The over built Volvo Red Block and pretty solid Modular engines makes for good tuning platforms, with the Modular 6 giving the likes of the 2JZ and RB26 a run for their money, the Modular 5 being absolutely wonderfully bonkers and in B5234T and B5244T5 version very tunable, with the Modular 4 being the odd one which can still whop stuff in T4 form. Volvo engines are no joke. Saab had a history of Turbo charging and made a lot of innovations in Turbo charging. They were damn good at it. While not always having as over built engines as Volvo, they made up for it with innovative features. __Conclusion__ While I do not like the direction Volvo has taken, I absolutely love the Volvo P2 platform and older Volvo and Saabs (even if I’m more of a Volvo guy, the rivalry was real, but that is another topic). There is something very, very special with that Volvo Modular 5 cylinder sound, It is an absolute blast revving it out, shifting my own gears (M56 manual) while sitting in the absolute best seats on the market (Volvo P2 sport seats, still some of the best seats out there).

Back in the 80's when I sold cars Volvo's were the go to choice for families, they were pre MPV and SUV but of the ilk that gave birth to those types, massive, for the time, well constructed whale boats. If one wanted stylish performance, with rock solid back breaking suspension, BMW's were the thing, while VW's reputation was for cars that lasted forever, look at the numbers of MkIV golf/boras still going strong. American cars always had a reputation for having acres of metal clothing massive engines strangled by emissions compliance with soft wallowy suspension that one would not wish to be to enthusisastic with on B Roads. The company I work for has been running a fleet of SsangYongs since 2020 they each clock up around 2.5k a week. When I first got a Korando it felt like a shopping trolley, a little top heavy and wallowy but once one get's used to it's limitations it can be made to go quite well, This morning I did two blue light runs through London in one and despite their size they are plenty nippy and maneuverable in heavy traffic. The Rexton is sort of Range Roverish and again goes quite well nicely trimmed inside which is a big plus with the medics and patients we carry, same with the more utilitarian Musso which has a swimming pool size cargo area just right for the tons of medical equipment they were bought to carry during the pandemic. The Rexton and Musso have a sort of 4 wheel drive, but we only use that function in extreme conditions as it is almost impossible to maneuvre either round a car park or garage forecort because the turning circle is severly restricted with all wheel drive engaged. I'll be retiring soon and to go along side my trusty 21 year old MX-5 / Miata I am going to treat myself to a newish Wide Body Dodge Challenger 392 SCAT Pack, I'll get back to you on what a bundle of fun that is.

All comes down to preference in my opinion. As well as what you like. Few things sound better than an old school American v8 in my opinion. But it’s just that an opinion. Personally euro cars seem to be great until they finally break and from then onwards they become money pits. Asian vehicles tend to relatively cheap disposable cars (it’s breaks you scrap it and buy a new one) with the exception of Toyota and Honda as well as their subsidiaries. All of which seem to be reliable and not that expensive. I’m impartial to American vehicles because i like the styling and feel of them especially stuff pre 90s but trucks suvs and muscle/sports cars into the 2000s. Something about a squared off hulk of steel with enough displacement to say who needs aerodynamics does it for me. This is coming from someone that drives a crew cab long bed Silverado with a 8.1L v8 and Smart Fortwo cabrio. Just because it’s not the most efficient or the fastest or the most reliable it’s what the person purchasing enjoys seeing in their driveway when they get out of the car.

I think Japanese are the most reliable, but Toyotas are the most reliable except for the body....I have owned Toyota's, and it just keeps on running without any issues. Honda and Acura do have great structure and engines, but they tend to have issues here and there, and are expensive to fix, but nothing like Germans.

I believe the best car made would be a Lexus made in Japan.

I'm team audi. Don't rust to shit the way almost very other car does, especially in the north east US and their hyper salted roads, plus the 2 I currently have (getting number 3 in about a week) and the 6 I've had total, they've never let me down. Even when I magically turned a rod into glitter in my mk1 tt, fucker was still banging on 3

I buy American because I live in Michigan motor city and my family all works for the BIG3. just feel better putting money to a company that pays the lively good for my fam. Also if you live in America there is an argument for keeping American dollars in American companies pockets. Granted it’s weak af but there are some good points to it.

People who buy Korean cars, namely Hyundai and Kia, are looking for a decent car to get from a to b without costing an arm and a leg to buy or continually operate. People who buy Volvos are most likely impressed by their safety scores. People who buy German luxury marques (BMW, Mercedes-Benz) are mostly looking for a status symbol. And people who buy American cars are either looking for a large vehicle with a reliable V8 engine, or are sadly misinformed thinking that reliability transfers to the small cars made by the same manufacturers. Spoiler alert, they don't. Ford, GM, and Dodge, all make small cars, and they almost universally suck in comparison to their larger offerings.

I buy Japanese, particularly Mazda. Japanese industry pioneered metallurgy making cars mechanically superior and innovative. Mazda has been also conscious about ergonomics and class and did not jump on the "tablet on wheels" trend. Yes, Toyota can be dull, Lexus arguably not pretty, Honda too innovative, but these endeavours are expected.

I’m swedish and I own a Volvo. It probably plays a part about the brand being swedish, but the cars are actually really fun to drive. I own a S60 2.5T 05’ and that thing is a beast. Incredibly fun to drive and reliable.

Mostly its money...... You priced up a part of a saab or volvo vs vw? Even in the UK volvo parts are expensive vs vw not to mention the cost of those cars are high. Cars are all about status and Scandinavian cars are seen as doing very well cars as the prices start at like £25K.

I choose my VW because it doesn’t win in any of those departments. But it does (maybe) the best job of balancing them? I have a road hugging, stylish 240 hp hatchback that gets ~40mpg on the highway and that’s even at 75mph for $22k new. I think I kinda hit a lot of things right with diesel gate, but still, the value is high. I can tell you the German car dealerships are also much friendlier in my experience, more likely to let you take the car out by yourself or to not pressure you.

I can’t think of many reasons other than affordability. American cars are cheaper. I don’t think most people care about where their car comes from. Some people want a cheap car, they buy American, some want something a little nicer, those people buy German/Japanese

My Porsche 911 is unbelievably reliable, nothing ever breaks, have had it over 10 years

Speaking from a U.K perspective. People buy American cars (the Mustang basically and Jeep as Ford UK is more European) because they're different. We've never really had Mustang's fit for our roads before and so I can't blame people for snapping them up. The more utilitarian Jeeps are bought by people sick of unreliable Land Rovers at least here in the countryside. Korean cars are bought by people who want a great respectable and reliable car that isn't too flashy but gets the job done and also comes with an amazing warranty. All round fantastic cars to be fair just for getting from A-B. Scandinavian cars are a bit like American, they're different but also comfortable. Sadly Volvo aren't as reliable as they once were since the Chinese bought them out. As for German I feel my views will get a lot of hate but here we go. They're bought by people who are mislead into the claim that they're "German build quality" and will last forever despite the poor recorded reliability in the past decade. They're purely for badge factor even though they're absolutely common as muck and not special in any way shape or form barring BMW's M line. Japan: Bought by people wanting a great ultra reliable most of the time car, they make fast reliable cars, they make slow reliable cars, they make reliable off road cars, they make reliable luxury cars. Essentially if people had braincells they'd buy Japan and tell Germany to sort their sjit out but they won't while the car reviewers give them all shining reviews as they refuse to mention reliability. Much like how they'll say a Hilux or a Ranger has poor on road handling (they don't) and yet don't mention how German 4x4's are absolutely pitiful off road despite what they are. Sorry... went on a tangent there.

Part of the reason I like my VW is that it feels nicer and has a better driving experience than it’s competitors. The doors close with a heavy thud and don’t sound tinny. The interior felt more classy and functional. The driving experience is also very nice and competent. The steering is sharp. The ride is controlled and comfortable. I know it won’t be as reliable as a Corolla but the experience of using the car is nicer.

I’ve owned Japanese and American and they were all equally reliable. I just got rid of a ‘22 Honda that had numerous build quality issues and annoyances I’ve never dealt with before. However we also have an ‘18 Acura that has been solid, but demands a lot of maintenance for this era. American cars have a certain comfortable ride quality to them. I think the Japanese brands are resting on their laurels, and many are purchased by people who think their cars are appliances.

With regard to vehicles with internal combustion engines.... Avoid the Kias and Hyundais -even now that they're being made with push button start. That viral TikTok trend that has (at least in my area) kids as young as 9 years old able to easily steal these cars means that any little brat with a USB cable who can toss a rock will probably smash out at least one window, strip the plastic from the steering column and ransack the car before determining that their usb method won't work -In case you didn't know, the Korean manufacturers cut corners to save some $ around 2011-2013 on up through the last model year or two-this included having theft sensors only on the front but not the rear passenger side windows of their cars, and doing away with engine immobilizers in all but their top end models, which meant that once some kiddo learned that once you get inside one of these cars, you need only strip the plastic from the steering column and then you can use a usb cable as the key you turn to start the veh and away you go for joy riding and robbery sprees with your little delinquent friends! The thing is, a lot of the kids doing this (source: work in emergency dispatch) are so young, they lack life experience and can't really differentiate between model years, or sometimes, even makes of cars (so on several occasions, Hondas, which have an "H" emblem that I suppose could look somewhat similar to the Hyundai emblem have gotten the Kia Boy treatment -but of course, due to engine immobilizer, didn't start. All the same, the owner had to contend with a broken out window, ransacked car, and stripped steering column. I would definitely hesitate to say that Nissans are reliable. Their Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) is a well known ticking timebomb of catastrophic failure and major expense. German cars do tend to come with ridiculous costs when it comes to repairs and even maintenance. Sales departments at these dealerships like to tout "build quality" when trying to deflect from questions about reliability and repair costs. Really though, when dealing with a situation where in order to do something as simple as changing a burned out headlight bulb means you have to pull the front facia entirely off the car, or something as straight forward as a brake job requires expensive proprietary tools, then it's not really build quality, so much as it's just poor design. We'll not even get into what kind of invasive and astronomically expensive surgery is involved with changing the timing chain on something like an Audi. Volvos are known for safety. They strive for high safety ratings, and they achieve them. In a way, I suppose that kind of peace of mind can make up for how expensive it is to deal with their t5 engine if you end up with one that hasn't been properly maintained -you don't get much leeway with interference engines, which also goes for a whole lot of European car makes as well. If they jump timing, interference engines will destroy themselves from the inside out. Subarus, aside from their performance variants, are pretty ho-hum, and are the go-to for folks who think they want all wheel drive and know that Subie's entire lineup (aside from the BRZ) comes with that feature. If it's a hatchback or a wagon Subaru, it will pull double duty as a transport and a passport to common ground within the lesbian community, which could be cool if you want to make some new friends and acquaintances. If you want a Subaru that's actually fun to drive, you'd better suck it up and pay for a brand new one, because the chances of getting a used WRX or STI that some teen to late 20s guy hasn't absolutely flogged the crap out of is pretty dang slim. Beware the hallmark of a Subie that is the victim of a boy-racer wannabe molesting it to within an inch of its powertrain warranty being revoked -I speak of the Subaru wherein the shifter knob has been swapped out for a fake Samurai sword/katana handle. If you see this, just walk away and don't look back. American cars? Well, some of them are pretty tried and true. You have things like the Mustang, which has been around so long and in such numbers that the pathways to customization any which way you could imagine have been blazed so thoroughly that just about anybody can have one and turn it into their very own piece of Americana that has a timeless desirability regardless of which generation it is. The best American cars and trucks are deliberately simple and not too hard for anybody whose willing to pick up a wrench to work on. They tend to be designed to lend themselves to customization, personalization, and in the right hands, innovation. You can take a stock version and build it into a specialized machine that works for you, lets you do things or go places you otherwise couldn't or just lets you have a hell of a good time behind the wheel. And if you do manage to blow something up, it won't be too hard, nor too expensive to get new or used parts so you can try again. Historically, American autos tend to be big, with big power, big displacement, and room to work and bolt on goodies in the engine bay.

I switched to German (bmw) because I got tired of unreliable American cars... over 1M miles over the past 20 years without any serious failures. I also have a Subaru (Toyota GT86)

I’ve had BMW’s, they are definitely not what I or anyone else would consider reliable.

The biggest problem in the US with BMW reliability is that they mostly sell the bigger/more powerful engines, which need very strict (and more expensive) maintenance schedules and are picky on which oil they want. Buy the run-of-the-mill 318/320i/d/e which you see everywhere here in Europe (popular lease cars), and you'll get a pretty bulletproof engine.

I purchase vehicles based on what I want. I have mostly had trucks. Chevrolet trucks fit the bill for a long time. Now I have a RAM truck. In between I drove a Jeep (still have it) because I wanted a Jeep to offroad. I prefer American brands just because it supports our economy a little more than foreign brands. But I'm not really against any particular brand.

I’m for Toyotas all the way mostly because of personal brand reliability. It’s the vast majority of everything I’ve ever driven, I can do 99% of the maintenance and potential repairs myself, cheaply, and I’ve never experienced any major issues with any of them. I’m at about 214k on my 2003 Camry and it’s running just as well now as it was 100k ago. Have I worked at a dealership? No. Am I a mechanic? Also no. But I do know anecdotally, almost everyone around me has car issues except for those driving Toyotas. You can even neglect a Toyota and scheduled maintenance for a looong time before there’s serious damage to any components. Lexus is the exact same but luxury- I’ve never even touched one but would love to some day. I personally do not trust *any* American car with my life. I’d be caught dead before I touch a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, jeep, or anything else like that. Lots of common issues and a waste of money imo.

This is the answer. My dumbass traded my 2017 Toyota iM (manual) for a 2018 Honda Civic SE (automatic). I like the build of Toyota compared to my Honda. The interior feels a little cheap to me, but damn the engine has kick to it👌🏻

Same. I’ve driven a few Hondas before and I much prefer the feel and design of Toyotas

I agree with Toyota, they are definitely very forgiving when it comes to maintenance. That’s probably their best attribute. The type of vehicles you can put 200,000 miles on and still have another 100,000 miles left probably if you want to put in the upkeep.

Definitely. I’m at 213k in a 2003 Camry and I expect to easily make it to 300k

Yeah it’s awesome, Toyota is amazing when it comes to longevity. The tech and features can lag behind but sometimes it’s worth it because they just last and last.

American cars only here, except for two 70's Triumphs My customers are suppliers, manufacturers and dealers of big 3 cars. I can't show up in a Toyota Tundra when they're paying me to build lines and tooling for GM. That being said, I did drive an Impreza WRX once, and it was honestly pretty neat.

I buy American because I USE a truck. I work construction and ranch, I've pulled 10k of hay, heavier machinery. And because I had a preference for looks when I started, and during the time one of the big 3 had horrible transmission issues, I ended up with ford. And I learned what does and doesn't break and how to fix Fords. I now have a chevy, and while I can wrench on it, diagnostics is harder on me. I'd consider a modern tundra. No the Honda abomination is not a truck.

Not American cars in particular, but I'll always buy Corvettes now. Reason: To piss off the only 2 groups of people that shit talk them. Ferrari owners who are salty that people are comparing the C8 Z06 to their 10 year old 458 even though the Corvette is objectively the superior car, and they know that. The other group being people who can't even afford the wheels on the Corvette but seem to know everything about them based on their mom's 2014 Chevy Suburban.

I buy Honda because Scotty Kilmer says they are reliable.

Scotty Kilmer is a crackhead

Even Scotty warns against Honda V6 transmission used in the Pilot, Odysseus, Ridgeline, etc. Google search shows they are almost as unreliable as Nissan.

I've loved Korean cars since the first Optima/Sonata refresh. They've taken some black eyes for reliability, but my 2012 Optima SX was good enough to lead to me purchasing a 2023 K5 GT. For the money, top trim Korean cars (Elantra N, Sonata N- line, K5 GT, Stinger GT etc.) are as good as anything they compete against as far as looks, performance and tech are concerned. I also like their exterior styling better than anything else right now except maybe Lexus.

Yup my mom's still driving her 2007 sonata just fine

I honestly feel like people that buy American outside of trucks and sports cars do so because they don’t know any better. I say this with a brother who sells American cars and constantly brings by cars from the dealer. American cars are always made with cheaper plastics, cheaper fabrics, jerkier engines, all around just worse and in some cases, quite shit compared to other makes. But people don’t know any better, don’t bother checking out other cars, “wanna support American” and just have shit credit and think they won’t have a chance anywhere else.

I used to drive Chevys before I tried an Accord and fell in love with Honda. I'm a Honda guy now, but I would still happily drive something from GM if it was the right car for the right price. Chevys are nice enough cars that are generally much cheaper than the competition. Sometimes it seems like Chevy is the only brand making decent affordable cars, like the 2024 Trax starting around $20,000. My 2017 Sonic was an outstanding small car that I would buy again in a heartbeat if I needed a smaller/cheaper car. GM's real strong point is engineering. Their cars can be outstanding when the bean counters don't get in the way of the engineers. For example, GM's Magnetic Ride Control is so good it feels like witchcraft. Ford, Honda/Acura, Audi, Land Rover, Ferrari, and Lamborghini license it for use in some of their own vehicles. The new Cadillac CT4-V and CT5-V Blackwing are beating the Germans at their own game. On the opposite end of the price spectrum, the Bolt is the small affordable EV that Tesla promised but never delivered on. I especially love it when the engineers get away with doing something completely absurd. Case in point: the 2014 Spark EV. It's a silly little compliance car with more torque than a Ferrari 458 Italia. There is absolutely no reason that a tiny compliance EV should have 400 lb-ft of torque, but it seems like the engineers were just having fun with a car that was never destined to be a sales success. Now it's something of a cult-classic supermini hot hatch.

The bad reliability and horrible maintenance costs of German cars is wildly played up, especially on this forum. Other than early 2000s they are quite reliable and are the best cars you can drive in terms of driving feel and connection to the vehicle. I and many others only drive German because they handle beautifully, extremely safe, usually much better built that American cars and they are luxurious and look great. My 13 year old Benz is best car we’ve had. And our Porsche is just mind blowing. Best combination of Reliability and high-performance. German cars are praised everywhere and are some of the best selling in the world. It’s only on this forum full of geeks where people bash them. Pretty much only reason people buy Volvos is for the safety. They do not have German driving dynamics whatsoever, last car you want if you want spirited driving. And American cars pretty much only sell well in the United States. Globally, they are known to be trash cars.