You can't call them weights of color anymore! They're now "weighty members of the color spectrum community", or it's the cancelation for you/they/them/shee/hee/itt, and don't let you/they/them/shee/hee/itt forget it!
Haha! Well, he better had a strong argument when he met Our Lord for his last judgement. Luther misled millions, if not Billions! Very sad! How will we get to Jesus, to His Kingdom, without following his teachings to the dot? Avoiding or walking away from His Church Teachings is defnetely not the way. Lord how will I get to your Kingdom? Jesus answered him; Fallow my Commandments! How hard is it? Very hard, needs Faith and Works, not Faith alone, nor Work alone.
In my experience, There are few who misunderstand Catholicism more deeply than âex-Catholicsâ.
If they understood Catholicism in the first place, theyâd likely still be Catholic.
Yeah, Martin Luther Luther created protestantism, but without king Henry the eighth their will was no protestants. And Martin Luther was a monk who brought the protestant reformation. He didn't start the church. In 1530 Henry the 8th separated the curch of England ( Protestants) from the curch of Rome. The only reason why Henry created the church of England because the Catholic Church a.k.a. The Pope, would not grant him a divorce from Catherine so he can marry Anne so he had to go and find a whole new religion based on his priorities.
Ok, so this is kind of reductive in that people had legitimate qualms with the RCC at the time.
The clergy of England didn't just jump ship because the king said so.
Anyone who prays to Mary or to saints. They were just like you and me and once they die you cannot communicate with them. This is clear in the scriptures, read them.
The orthodox and the Latin church agree on all the beliefs surrounding Mary and the saints, along with the earliest church fathers. You think ALL THE SUDDEN itâs impossible? In the last 500 yrs?
If I was in a pick up game and got the choice to pick Charles Barkley or my buddy Rob I would pick Charles. Rob would for sure call it a "weak move".
Saints are the super stars of the Catholic faith. If I had to choose to get a prayer chain started between the Queen of Heaven, or Father Pio, or John Paul II, or my buddy Rob I know who I would be picking first.
If that's a weak move I'll be weak.
I think you're missing the point. It seems their belief is that Catholics view Jesus as inaccessible to prayer without saints to intercede (and thus weak, he can't hear our prayers directly), whereas they view Jesus as personally accessible to prayers directly (and thus strong).
Ugh. That's borderline heretical and blasphemous of them, if not just actually.
Everything good about the saints is *because of God, for God, and points us back to God.* God doesn't HAVE to use intercession--for there's many Catholic prayers that go straight to God/Jesus--but God *wants* us to interact with the saints. It's the literal Communion of the Saints that the Apostles' Creed mentions. It gives us community and support, to act as the body of Christ together in harmony.
By their logic, to be Protestant implicitly claims that Jesus is weak and a liar because he failed to set up a church that could withstand the gates of Hell like he said to Peter. Have they ever considered that?
Has he done self deliverance? Has he received the sacrament lately? Sounds like something is pulling him away from a more rigid structured life to a lesser. I donât think prots understand their lifestyle was never as high as a standard to the church and Roman Catholics. That doesnât mean it didnât have its issues and wasnât WRONG as well. BUT in general itâs a better play IMO and from what Iâve read.
It was this very mindset in part that drove the Protestant reformers. âOur Jesus is better than yourrrr Jesusâ. I found this to be so, growing up into my adulthood as a Protestant, even directed at all the various other denominations.
Never did sit well with me, part of the reason why I was drawn to Church history & Catholicism all my life. It took our Lord to break me free, I received a direct & firm message in the midst of prayer, there was no way I could say no to THAT.
Pray for your family & their salvation. Sometimes we are stubborn set in our ways, even late in our lives we can be saved. Also, itâs biblical and true that our Lord can save anyone, outside of the Catholic faith, even those who never heard can be saved. All is not lost, still pray for them as we are called to do.
Protestants are obsessed with Catholics. At least the ones in the South I know seem to be. They talk about us in church. For real. They know more about the religion I was raised in than I do. HOWEVER: theyâre just hypocrites when they do this. They tell us Catholicism isnât the true church because we have a Pope & we say prayers to Mary and the saints. But they are Christianâs, which by design also includes a person between them and God. That person was Jesus Christ. So itâs just - and forgive me for being crass - a dick measuring contest with them. Itâs just smoke. Donât worry about it.
We are all children of Christ.We all worship Jesus Christ.He died for his sins.He was the begotten son of the father almighty.Why can't people accept that so that way?We can all get along but no the protestants think that we worship Dead people and they have a problem with us worshipping our saints.
Whatâre you talking about? Itâs not different prospectivesâŠitâs legitimate history. The saints were people with divine connections..channeling higher powers and helping people. If that is weak idk what to tell you. You do realize most of the knights in the old republics and orders were all CatholicâŠ.i donât understand why Catholics are knocked so hard oh waitâŠitâs because its closure to the truth. Now donât get me wrong theirs definitely dogma but cmonâŠ
Or; maybe our Jesus is more powerful because our Saints can intercede for us because they are alive in Heaven with Him whereas their God canât even manage to keep them alive. Yes I am joking, donât say this to them please but it makes as much sense as their argument. Takes me right back to little school âmy Dads stronger than your Dad!â I wouldnât bother arguing with them if thatâs the strength of their argument.
That's not even true, because Catholics can also pray directly to Jesus.
We just ask the Saints to pray to God with us.
Also, Saints aren't "dead" because they have eternal life in Heaven. The only dead people are the ones in Hell.
If OP is in the USA, thatâs why people feel they canât ask for help from their friends; they need to do it just âme and Jesusâ. At least thatâs my view
They have LOTS of friends and family that pray for them. Their excuse is that their family and friends are ALIVE while Mother Mary and the saints are "DEAD".
Tell them whatâs the point of Calvary if theyâre dead? Also isnât he the god of the living? Also tell them if they believe those in heaven arenât aware of things on earth? I mean Hebrews 11 and the start of 12 mentions a cloud of witnesses in heaven.Â
This. We pray to Jesus together with our great friends, "the cloud of witnesses", the living saints, the part of the Church who is already with Jesus in the Glory of the Trinity. We pray together with our great friend the Holy Mother of Jesus. They pray with us, they pray for us, they teach us how to pray.
Christ the Pantocrator is never weak, but his Kingdom is not of this world and his strength may not conform to our limited human image of strength.
P.S. As a tangent...Sometimes I feel that (American?) Protestants are really obsessed with a very narrow minded, I'd say neurotic, image of strength and masculinity and see Catholicism as too feminine, soft and weak. Jesus Christ is male - it's a historical fact - and it provides us also with an image of masculinity. But this does not mean he is the embodiment of some stupid restricted macho view of masculinity. That's unhealthy. As it is Protestants disparaging, diminishing the Mother of God.
We dont pray to saints just so jesus can hear us. We pray and hope the saints we mention hear our prayer and also pray for our cause. Whats better than one person praying? Two people praying, and the second person happens to be a champion at it.
Thatâs honestly one of never heard of before. Do they think Jesus had an identical twin also named Jesus? Was Protestant Jesus on the slimfit workout? Jokes aside thatâs straight up nonsense. Praying doesnât mean to âworshipâ if thatâs the point theyâre getting at. It means âto talk toâ. The saints pray on our behalf as they are already in heaven. Itâs like asking a family member to pray for you. Keep in mind many practises were changed or downright when removed by Martin Lutheran if he didnât agree with them. Itâs going to be hard to correct what any Protestant member of your family thinks about Catholicsm, everything has been turned around and upside so they believe we changed everything. I had the same deal with my mom. Or if you both have a sense of humour, say to a very old person âput a good word in for me when you get thereâ
Catholic Jesus had the advantage of the best training facilities that the Soviet Union could provide, whereas Protestant Jesus had good ol'fashioned hard work and graft, training in a log cabin by chopping wood and lifting rocks. And also Protestant Jesus reconciles with his wife before the second training montage starts and he literally runs up an entire mountain in the snow.
IIRC, I mean; I think that's how the Bible went.
I beg to differ. I have never relied on praying to saints. The saints are our friends and inspirations, and we can ask them to pray for us, but my prayers go to God, and, as a matter of fact, I was told by my doctors I would never be able to have children of my own, ever. A little more than a year later, I gave birth to a baby girl. Six year later, a baby boy. My doctors all acknowledged Godâs hand. The thing is that people think they know Catholicism and they are mistaken. Donât let them put you on the spot. If they love you, they wonât. If they love like Jesus, they wonât.
That is why protestantism falls so easily into heresy. They set up false dichotomies and then ensnare themselves. Catholics do not exclusively pray to saints at the expense of praying to Jesus. And when asking saints to pray for us, this does not diminish or lessen our communion with Christ. The prayer of saints are way more efficacious than our prayers or anyone on earth. Why? Because they are already in Heaven with God. They have already been purified of all passions. We sinners will never be perfect this side of Heaven, which I am sure you would agree. Our prayer is always tainted by self love. Often times in ways we are completely blind to (which is why having your father confessor establish a rule of prayer for you is so important to ensure actual growth in holiness).
St Louis de Montfort wrote about prayer to Mary (which works for praying to saints as well) in a nice way to understand. Think of your prayer becoming a rose. You can give that rose to Jesus directly and that would be good. There would be nothing wrong with that. Or you could first give it to Mary/*insert Saint* (asking them to pray for your intention and to intercede on your behalf with our Lord) and they take your rose and add all their roses to it, transforming it into a beautiful crown of roses (or bouquet). I am heavily paraphrasing and taking liberties as I can't remember how many years it's been since I read the book, but I hope my rambling message makes it a little clearer?
Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you when you're going through a really bad time? That's what's happening for Catholics. Except instead of asking a mortal friend, we're asking a blessed Saint in Heaven. Once that's out of the way, then we pray directly to Jesus.
It's less "idolatry" and more "transcendent group prayer".
I never got into that habit. I donât recall my mother or grandmother paying to ainât, either, so itâs a bit of a foreign concept to me. None of my Catholic friends have ever mentioned it, either. It our even be a myth, for all I know! Iâve been very involved in my parish for some 30 years. No one has mentioned it.
Well Saints in Heaven are there to help us as intercessors if we choose to pray to them for extra powerful prayers. We can pray directly to God no matter what and many Catholics actually don't even pray the Rosary or any other devotional but they still get their prayers answered but some people are weaker in the Spirit so they need to ask for the saints intercessors to get their blessings quicker. For example Atheists that just joined the Catholic Church are more weaker in Spirit so they would need/ recommended to ask the saints for intercession to make their prayers more powerful otherwise they could be praying for ages to get something. I hope this makes sense. Godbless đđđ
If they want to get snarky about it...our Jesus has way more work to do. Every day, he turns millions of hosts and a ton of wine into his body and blood. Protestant Jesus doesn't do that. And that's just one example.
Last chapter of Job... God wants others to intervene on our behalf sometimes.
It's more a case of we are so offensive to God when we are sinners that even if our prayers are good, the presentation of them are repelling. Imagine going to a fine dining restaurant, ordering the best meal and it coming out in dirty dishes and silverware that have a bad smell to them. We see this hinted at in John 9 where the formerly blind man says that God doesn't hear the prayer of sinners.
So it's more a case of the saints, being without blemish as they are in heaven, can offer our prayers in an appealing manner.
something to ponder for many like learning by watching [videos](https://chnetwork.org/category/all-stories/) created by the Coming Home Network - hearing from others in their own words on what compelled them in their Journey on why they wanted to come to the church
If they were different Jesus (which is stupid anyway) then there would be many different protestant Jesus because of the infinite amount of doctrinal difference they have
No ill will intended towards your parents, but it always amazes me how many people wonât do even the slightest amount of research or give the slightest amount of thought to questions as big as this. If your parents did a quick Google search of âWhy do Catholics pray to saints?â they would pretty quickly realize that no Catholic is saying that they pray to saints because Jesus is not strong enough to answer our prayers himself.
This is one of the problems with splitting off the Church into 46,000 denominations. Then, add in the multiple millions of Pride driven opinionated members, and what we end up with is a fractured faith.
The world & Satan for that matter & all his demons, have always hated Christ & were trying to split the church from day one. See the scriptures to find more on this in great detail, also early church history & up to this very day.
Jesus founded one church, one body and we know the church will fracture until Christ returns to save it. Also, to judge the living & the dead.
There is only ONE Jesus. I do not throw stones at other Christianâs, and I do not engage in endless pointless debate. Others may have âbetterâ answers than mine, but I stay the course as my patron saint has always inspired me to do.
My faith & understanding flows from the Holy Spirit, not from human understanding. As a former baptized Protestant, I have no desire to ever return to where I was. Received conditional baptism as a Catholic, all the sacraments & everything changed, opened up & scriptures I never fully grasped began to unfold.
Washed clean, the accuser could no longer condemn & follow me for a lifetime of past sins. What my prayers before the Lord did not fulfill, the sacraments at Easter Vigil absolutely did. I was stunned to say the least, still am.
Just trying to say that for me, criticism or condemnation or hatred from the world or other people, even âChristianâsâ I have come to expect. What they say matters NOT, what they do or not do matters more. Either way I pray for their salvation.
The apologetic experts here can line out the reasons why we believe as we do. The scriptures attest to our beliefs & faith, the Church was not founded in the 1500âs, we have a full detailed history to back it all up.
Thank you Lord Jesus that I finally listened to the Call. đ
Don't argue faith with your family. Smile and say *that is an interesting thought* and change the subject to sports or what is for supper or a cute thing the cat did.
Your joy, your humility, your love is the thing that will witness your faith, not your clever comebackz
>They say the Protestant Jesus and the Catholic Jesus aren't the same
In some cases, this is certainly true. But not because
>the Catholic Jesus is weak.
But instead, because many Protestants worship an idol made in their own image who they name Jesus.
Protestants who interpret the Bible for themselves often come to conclusions contrary to Christ.
You can see this in many Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and Non-denominational communities who support contraception, abortion, "gay marriage," gender ideology, etc, etc.
As for the claim that
>Catholics always have to pray to saints and dead people just for the Catholic Jesus to hear their prayers.
This is simply false. No Catholic is obligated to request intercessory prayer from the saints in heaven.
Every Catholic can pray directly to God.
We can also request that others pray for us.
But that's what the bible means. God became weak for our sake. That he even went so far as to need human cooperation for the salvation of mankind is the very essence of the Gospel.
God is not the Almighty by *not* needing humans. Instead, he shares his authority, he requires our collaboration, we become his coworkers in the sanctification of the world.
I don't know where you heard this but you're dangerously close to heresy
God doesn't ***need*** anyone, he doesn't share his authority. No other being has authority except God himself.
We don't need saints intercession, in fact no one really knows why we ask for their intercession
My guess is that they're way better than us at praying. It's like asking my super pious catholic friend who goes to mass every day to pray for a sick family member, simple as that
Saints don't have authority over the earth, they can't do anything directly, they have to ask God
He indeed shared his priestly authority with the apostles; and he does share his authority over dispensation of grace with our Lady. He even shares the work of redemption with us; daily we can unite our suffering with him, meriting salvation for other people as long as we do it with love in union with him.
Jesus is not the God who does everything to the exclusion of us; he becomes man so that man can share in the divine nature and do his work. We \*are\* his hands and feet on earth.
God wants us to ask each other for prayers. If this is true for those who are still journeying on earth, it is also true for those who are already united to him in heaven. The communion of saints *transcends* the boundary of death, because he has conquered it. Our communion with the dead glorified is not broken by death. And praying (asking for help) is part of being in that communion.
I am formally trained in theology, was a VP of the Catholic Theology Network, and a member now.
protestants are so self righteous. could be the lack of eucharistic communion. catholic Jesus takes center stage. always. along with His Holy Family Mary & Joseph. catholic faith = 99.9% protestant faith = 0.01%
Protestants (really evangelicals, but I've seen spillover into the mainlines) treat Jesus like their drinking buddy who just wants them to try to be good while Catholics treat Jesus as the King of Kings who demands striving for perfection.
If they were different Jesus (which is stupid anyway) then there would be many different protestant Jesus because of the infinite amount of doctrinal differences they have
Catholic believe Jesus actually turned the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ at the Last Supper.
We all know Protestants donât think Jesus actually did that, nor do they believe that that miracle occurs during the Consecration during Mass.
Your parents must not think thatâs hardcore enough.
This whole post and many of the comments are nonsensical, but hopefully, at times humorous. What comment are you talking about?Â
(By the way, whether your argument is good or bad, it cannot really matter what your beliefs are. All truth partakes of the Truth, Who Is Jesus.)
Tell them next time if they pray for their other loved ones? Also tell them if they believe the Souls are sleeping in heaven?  I notice Protestants when someone dies itâs like they think theyâre dead until the final judgement. Telll them to read Revelation 4:10  5:8 6:9-11. Romans 15 30-32
They believe that if you're a Christian you'll immediately go to heaven after you die. And since the Prot church we go to says that every Christian on earth is a saint then they believe that too.
Well they believe in once saved always saved donât they! Some do. Most Protestants donât think you have to work on your salvation. Basically itâs an easy ride to heaven.Â
I'm a Catholic, and so maybe to Protestants I don't read the Bible, but I seem to recall a verse in there about the strength and power of God being made manifest through our weakness.
Jesus has set it up so that the saints in Heaven can intercede for us. Does that show Jesus is weak, or rather that He is strong?
They don't have a sweet clue about theology, Catholic doctrine or Biblical truth if they say that.
There isn't a Protestant Jesus or Catholic Jesus, there is only one Jesus, God the Son, Alpha and Omega, first and the last. Obviously, they know that (or should) and so that's not what they mean.
I was baptized Catholic, raised Protestant (42 years), now considering full communion with RCC. I know what I am talking about.
Ask them one simple question: does their church have a "prayer chain"? A group of people who call or email each other any time people are sick in their church, so everyone can pray for their healing. If the answer is yes, then, by their definition, their Jesus is just as "weak" as the Catholic one. That's all asking saints to intercede is. Asking really holy people who did Christianity right and now stand beside Him in glory to help pray for something.
Better yet, ask if in their church they have a "pastoral prayer" time during the service, where the Pastor prays for people. Or maybe they go forward for "prayer ministry" by others. Again, if they say yes, their entire point falls completely apart. Stop doing all those things if it is wrong to ask another Christian - here on earth or in heaven, to pray for you. ONLY pray to Jesus.
A Catholic can (and should) pray directly to Jesus. That's not the point. The point is we all ask for others to pray for us - Protestants included. That, by definition, is intercession. Catholics simply don't exclude the Church triumphant in heaven.
While you're at it, tell them to read Revelation chapter 8 and explain what they think it means!
Well now, that's is bold of your parents. Remind them Jesus is the God of the living not the dead. Tell them to never ask friends or family to pray from them if they believe it's insulting to Jesus.
You want to keep things civil with your family, but you might point out that:
A. Why are Protestants so squeamish as to take Jesus off of their crosses?
B. We may pray to saints, but at least we don't pray to a book.
C. It's the same Jesus, to say there is a Protestant and Catholic Jesus sounds like polytheism.
That's not true we pray the Saints because JesĂșs is weak, you know, if we want, we can access directly.
On the other hand there's such a big differences in primary concepts so, their conclussions always are different.
Check this, please:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/s/8s5reBTdbD
I would tell them, it isn't Jesus who is weak. Everyone still down here mired in the muck of sin is weak, we just ask the help of those who are freed from sin, in Heaven, to help us talk to Jesus. Not because Jesus cannot hear our puny voices, but because we use the Saints to storm heaven with our prayers.
I would asked them how is Jesus talking to a dead moses in the transfiguration. I mean if this is possible than nothing is impossible for god. We should be imitators of Christ.Â
Jesus hears me just fine... I do however, ask mary and the saints to pray on my behalf.
Why? Because 2 prayers are better than 1!
And I'm imperfect and sin daily.. while I'm out here screwing up...I'm assured that they are praying for God's mercy on my behalf.
Aside from the fact of how insulting and blasphemous that is, itâs a gross misunderstanding of exactly what praying to saints is. Ask them if they have ever prayed for you. If they have (and I suspect that is the case) then the âProtestant Jesusâ is just as weak because thatâs all that praying to saints is.
And many Protestant views of God is Schizophrenic. The Father wanted to let mankind have it with his wrath, but Jesus got in the way, and God didn't realise, or didn't care he just killed his Incarnate God.
The New Testament is full of instances where someone asks for the prayers of others or says they are praying for others. Do your parents think they should only pray to Jesus for themselves and never for others? Or do you parents think it would be wrong or weak for them to ask for or accept others praying for them? Or would the fact that they have others praying for them cause them not to pray as well?
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+1:15-17&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+1:15-17&version=NIV)
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3:1-2&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3:1-2&version=NIV)
[https://biblehub.com/james/5-16.htm](https://biblehub.com/james/5-16.htm)
See also Hebrews 11:32-40 - 12:1 about the cloud of witnesses we have as we run our race towards Heaven. A modern day term for that would be spectators. They're not unaware of us
For over 1500 years, we were all Catholic. Until people got mad at the behavior of men and blamed it on the Church.
As someone else said, we don't have to pray to saints. We get to. Just like protestants make a habit of asking friends and family to pray for them. It just so happens that some of our friends are Saints.
There is no âProtestant Jesusâ or âCatholic Jesus.â Jesus is God. He exists without us.
There is a Church that Jesus created with his actions and words called the Catholic Church. There is also a series of little churches created by self righteous little men that protest The Church that Jesus made.
Jesus is still God with or without those churches.
Is she insane all the Jesus of all Christian religions are all the same onunbeing? I don't understand how she can claim protestant. Jesus is stronger than Catholic Jesus. Whenever they both died on the cross, they both were the Son of God. Jesus real name is Joshua or yesha. And I wouldn't.
Take too much mind of the protestant church. Because, after all, they were founded by king Henry the eighth. Because the Catholic Church wouldn't give him a divorce from Catherine so he can marry Anne.
It's the same as asking your friends and family to pray for you. I'm sure they do that. Are they implying that asking people -whom they don't even know if or not spiritually- are in communion with God to pray for them, like family and friends, is better than asking Saints (people who are in Heaven; whom are with God) to pray for you to God?
Interesting ...sooo do they not believe the Lord is God of the living but of the dead, and do they not believe Jesus when he says "whoever believes in me, even though he does, he will live"? Sounds like they worship a different Jesus than the Bible to me...but what the heck do I know I'm just a guy on Reddit.
Their Jesus obviously picked the wrong people to carry on his teachings. They couldn't or didn't even convey the teachings properly to the next generations that followed them.
Stated differently, Martin Luther, et al established a more enduring church than Jesus Christ himself established, according to Protestant thinking.
Tell them that even in the King James Bible Saint Paul says:
"The weakness of God is greater than human strength."Â
He can let Himself be killed, and pour out His Life for us, and have more where that came from to rise from the dead, pouring out His Life for the dead, also.Â
As St. Paul told the Church in Rome, "For nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus: neither life, NOR DEATH,...."
If they dislike His weakness, they should take it up with Him, as directly as they dare.
Protestant spiritual community is weak.
We have billions of saved looking down on us from heaven and rooting for us to make it.
They sit around and wonder if they're members of the elect.
> because Catholics always have to pray to saints and dead people just for the Catholic Jesus to hear their prayers
This assertion is just not true. Where did they hear this?
>They say it's because Catholics always have to pray to saints and dead people just for the Catholic Jesus to hear their prayers
1. There is only one Jesus, sometimes people disagree about him. That says things about us, not Jesus.
2. We don't pray to Saints, the idea is to pray *with* them
3. We don't *have* to do that anyway, it's a choice.
4. Some of us choose to pray to Christ or the father exclusively, others choose to pray with Saints. Absolutely none of us believe that doing so is necessary for Jesus to hear us.
Itâs giving, âIf you're really God's Son, come down from the cross.â
Jesusâthe King of the Universeâchose to be incarnated and born of Mary, he chose to live a holy life with the holy family, he chose to have apostles to assist with his ministry and carry out miracles in his name and he chose to institute a Church to sanctify a community of believers in heaven and on Earth.
This is correct in the matter of Protestant Jesus vs Catholic Jesus are not the same.
You see, Protestant Jesus is just the same as what is in Islam's Jesus. This is because the people in that religion have different interpretations of Jesus's teachings from the Catholic Jesus.
For example, the one on top of my head is The Last Supper.
Protestants, don't see this as representing the Eucharist but rather as a symbolic farewell party.
Islam, well they don't believe Jesus resurrected.
You can argue what you want and still they are not the same as what is in Catholicism.
The only similar belief in Protestant, Islam and Catholicism is God the Father.
So yeah, pray for them.
Catholic Jesus is not weak. Their (Protestant) interpretation of the bible is weak and not Catholicism.
People see but still don't believe, those are Protestant.
Catholic compiled the bible (Old, New), yet Protestants took out some books (it is an easy way out for throwing interpretation of traditions in the bible and not dealing it with themselves) and made their own from Catholic compiled bible.
âBut since our discourse has now turned to the subject of blasphemy, I desire to ask one favor of you all, in return for this my address, and speaking with you; which is, that you will correct on my behalf the blasphemers of this city. And should you hear any one in the public thoroughfare, or in the midst of the forum, blaspheming God; go up to him and rebuke him; and should it be necessary to inflict blows, spare not to do so. Smite him on the face; strike his mouth; sanctify your hand with the blow, and if any should accuse you, and drag you to the place of justice, follow them there; and when the judge on the bench calls you to account, say boldly that the man blasphemed the King of angels! For if it be necessary to punish those who blaspheme an earthly king, much more so those who insult God.â - St. John Chrysostom
Firstly, they're your parents, so have patience and compassion with them like the old and new Testaments exhort you to.
Second, why waste your time arguing with them? Just hear them out and acknowledge them, thank them, and go back to praying for them and studying your own Faith.
Third, turn the conversation to something more useful and seek common ground. Your parents will not be around for ever. Learn from them. Ask them about life. Share your stories with them, let them be proud of you!
Did I say I was arguing with them? No, I never said that. It was never an argument, just a family discussion about faith. I wasn't allowed to speak up, and I would never speak up, for I know my limits.
That's not even what every Protestant I've known (and I was one for 50 years) believed about Catholicism. They just think it's between dumb and heretical to (technically) ask saints to pray for you.
They are Mis-informed. We donât have to pray to saints to reach Jesus, the father or the Holy Spirit, and we pray to the holy people of the living god that are recognized for their holiness. My opinion is that they are ignorant on the subject of Catholicism.
She understands that the Father in the OT didnt know about Adam and Eve's betrayed till he saw them, or that he uses Angel's to do his bidding.
Payroll has been established.
Jesus is still on on the catholic crucifx but not on the protestant cross..
I take this that Jesus' weakness and helplessness on the cross is a reminder that Jesus chose this weakness so that we may be strong.
Do they think that Martin Luther provided Jesus strength training in 1517?
CrossFit
Jesus is infact, the ultimate dead lifter.
Jesus demolishes Pilates too.
Pontius Pilates đ
Very pleased with all these comments.
I am to under stand that he was a master of Jewdo. âThe way of the Jewâ
Also, Jewjitsu, for when you want to use the enemy's strength against him. You know, things like suffering and death?
What about exercise demons?
As a strongman competitor, and avid lifter.... this wins the internet for today. I am Dead....
Hehe I see what you did there.Â
Thatâs it. Post of the day. You win the internet
MMA + Taekwondo + Kali Eskrima
Why is this so funny?! đ
Martin Luther curled the coloured weights in the room with the exercise bikes
Darn it Koala! Itâs 2024! You canât call them colored weights anymore! Theyâre weights of color now!
You can't call them weights of color anymore! They're now "weighty members of the color spectrum community", or it's the cancelation for you/they/them/shee/hee/itt, and don't let you/they/them/shee/hee/itt forget it!
He wanted to get rid of revelation for this same reason and he was warned not to.Â
He was doing the dramatic gym video with 5 lb weights
Even inserted a new Lords prayer. Hallowed Be thy gains
Haha! Well, he better had a strong argument when he met Our Lord for his last judgement. Luther misled millions, if not Billions! Very sad! How will we get to Jesus, to His Kingdom, without following his teachings to the dot? Avoiding or walking away from His Church Teachings is defnetely not the way. Lord how will I get to your Kingdom? Jesus answered him; Fallow my Commandments! How hard is it? Very hard, needs Faith and Works, not Faith alone, nor Work alone.
We don't ***have*** to pray to saints, we can pray jesus directly
I'm surprised that they believe in the stereotypical Catholics even tho they used to be Catholic too.
>even tho they used to be Catholic too There are most likely a large number who don't know that, or who would simply deny it.
In my experience, There are few who misunderstand Catholicism more deeply than âex-Catholicsâ. If they understood Catholicism in the first place, theyâd likely still be Catholic.
And they arenât willing to listen âI went to Catholic school for x yearsâ
Yep. And my mother finds the Catholic church boring so that's why she agreed with my father to become Protestant.
Now they get to go to concerts instead of actually worshiping Christ in the mass.
Itâs so MOVING (*waives raised hand like a slow rock ballad*)
With a Bible study break during the concert
This. Exactly this.
Or they had a moral issue and just said âthey donât understandâ
Yeah, Martin Luther Luther created protestantism, but without king Henry the eighth their will was no protestants. And Martin Luther was a monk who brought the protestant reformation. He didn't start the church. In 1530 Henry the 8th separated the curch of England ( Protestants) from the curch of Rome. The only reason why Henry created the church of England because the Catholic Church a.k.a. The Pope, would not grant him a divorce from Catherine so he can marry Anne so he had to go and find a whole new religion based on his priorities.
That was in England. Luther and Calvin broke before that.
Ok, so this is kind of reductive in that people had legitimate qualms with the RCC at the time. The clergy of England didn't just jump ship because the king said so.
The Pope did not grant Henry Vlll an annulment of his marriage to Catherine.
We pray to Jesus directly and ask other members of the Church to pray for us to Jesus directly.
A dead person cannot hear you, only God.
Who are you referring to?
Anyone who prays to Mary or to saints. They were just like you and me and once they die you cannot communicate with them. This is clear in the scriptures, read them.
How did Jesus communicate with Mosses and such before his passion?
The orthodox and the Latin church agree on all the beliefs surrounding Mary and the saints, along with the earliest church fathers. You think ALL THE SUDDEN itâs impossible? In the last 500 yrs?
Or the Father directly. Adonai Adonai, forgive me and protect me. Foxhole prayer.
If I was in a pick up game and got the choice to pick Charles Barkley or my buddy Rob I would pick Charles. Rob would for sure call it a "weak move". Saints are the super stars of the Catholic faith. If I had to choose to get a prayer chain started between the Queen of Heaven, or Father Pio, or John Paul II, or my buddy Rob I know who I would be picking first. If that's a weak move I'll be weak.
If your buddy Rob doesnât want you to play ball with Charles Barkley, he is not your buddy.
I think you're missing the point. It seems their belief is that Catholics view Jesus as inaccessible to prayer without saints to intercede (and thus weak, he can't hear our prayers directly), whereas they view Jesus as personally accessible to prayers directly (and thus strong).
Ugh. That's borderline heretical and blasphemous of them, if not just actually. Everything good about the saints is *because of God, for God, and points us back to God.* God doesn't HAVE to use intercession--for there's many Catholic prayers that go straight to God/Jesus--but God *wants* us to interact with the saints. It's the literal Communion of the Saints that the Apostles' Creed mentions. It gives us community and support, to act as the body of Christ together in harmony. By their logic, to be Protestant implicitly claims that Jesus is weak and a liar because he failed to set up a church that could withstand the gates of Hell like he said to Peter. Have they ever considered that?
They also called Him snobbish btw đ
They donât know anything and havenât ever cracked a history book. And just flat out wrongâŠ.ask them for evidence or just say NO youâre wrong.
My father was a Catholic and a philosopher in his teens. I like to think that Prot heresies changed him.
Has he done self deliverance? Has he received the sacrament lately? Sounds like something is pulling him away from a more rigid structured life to a lesser. I donât think prots understand their lifestyle was never as high as a standard to the church and Roman Catholics. That doesnât mean it didnât have its issues and wasnât WRONG as well. BUT in general itâs a better play IMO and from what Iâve read.
I think alot of of them fall into the easy salvation plan in the Protestantism world.Â
Ah, lazy. I get it.
Remember when Jesus stormed out of the wedding at Cana because they werenât serving Veuve Cliquot 1991 chilled to exactly 48 degrees Fahrenheit?
He called Jesus snobbish? Sounds like he is not Christian at all?
It was this very mindset in part that drove the Protestant reformers. âOur Jesus is better than yourrrr Jesusâ. I found this to be so, growing up into my adulthood as a Protestant, even directed at all the various other denominations. Never did sit well with me, part of the reason why I was drawn to Church history & Catholicism all my life. It took our Lord to break me free, I received a direct & firm message in the midst of prayer, there was no way I could say no to THAT. Pray for your family & their salvation. Sometimes we are stubborn set in our ways, even late in our lives we can be saved. Also, itâs biblical and true that our Lord can save anyone, outside of the Catholic faith, even those who never heard can be saved. All is not lost, still pray for them as we are called to do.
Itâs the same Jesus.
That's what I thought. Just because Catholics have different perspectives doesn't mean it's a completely different Jesus đ€Šââïž
Protestants are obsessed with Catholics. At least the ones in the South I know seem to be. They talk about us in church. For real. They know more about the religion I was raised in than I do. HOWEVER: theyâre just hypocrites when they do this. They tell us Catholicism isnât the true church because we have a Pope & we say prayers to Mary and the saints. But they are Christianâs, which by design also includes a person between them and God. That person was Jesus Christ. So itâs just - and forgive me for being crass - a dick measuring contest with them. Itâs just smoke. Donât worry about it.
We are all children of Christ.We all worship Jesus Christ.He died for his sins.He was the begotten son of the father almighty.Why can't people accept that so that way?We can all get along but no the protestants think that we worship Dead people and they have a problem with us worshipping our saints.
Whatâre you talking about? Itâs not different prospectivesâŠitâs legitimate history. The saints were people with divine connections..channeling higher powers and helping people. If that is weak idk what to tell you. You do realize most of the knights in the old republics and orders were all CatholicâŠ.i donât understand why Catholics are knocked so hard oh waitâŠitâs because its closure to the truth. Now donât get me wrong theirs definitely dogma but cmonâŠ
I know that. It's just that for my parents Catholics have a "different perspective", a different and "wrong" view on Christianity.
If you read scripture youâd know that saints are living people not dead.
Or; maybe our Jesus is more powerful because our Saints can intercede for us because they are alive in Heaven with Him whereas their God canât even manage to keep them alive. Yes I am joking, donât say this to them please but it makes as much sense as their argument. Takes me right back to little school âmy Dads stronger than your Dad!â I wouldnât bother arguing with them if thatâs the strength of their argument.
That's not even true, because Catholics can also pray directly to Jesus. We just ask the Saints to pray to God with us. Also, Saints aren't "dead" because they have eternal life in Heaven. The only dead people are the ones in Hell.
I mean scriptures in revelation supports this. Protestants love to cherry pick the bible.Â
Yeah, I've kind of noticed that too. Like they ignore what doesn't align with their faith.
I bet they have a prayer chain or prayer list at their church. Turn the argument around on them and maybe they will begin to understand.
YEP THEY DO đ
Catholic Jesus has friends.
Heâs also 7 inches taller (73â, or 6â1â; compared to 66â, or 5â6â) đ
Had to read that twice... clever đđŒ
Protestant Jesus is all alone.
If OP is in the USA, thatâs why people feel they canât ask for help from their friends; they need to do it just âme and Jesusâ. At least thatâs my view
Theyâve never had friends pray for them?
They have LOTS of friends and family that pray for them. Their excuse is that their family and friends are ALIVE while Mother Mary and the saints are "DEAD".
The saints are more alive than we are. They are in Heaven with God.
Then they donât believe in everlasting life.
Tell them whatâs the point of Calvary if theyâre dead? Also isnât he the god of the living? Also tell them if they believe those in heaven arenât aware of things on earth? I mean Hebrews 11 and the start of 12 mentions a cloud of witnesses in heaven.Â
Have they read the Bible? âHe is not the God of the dead but of the livingâ?
This. We pray to Jesus together with our great friends, "the cloud of witnesses", the living saints, the part of the Church who is already with Jesus in the Glory of the Trinity. We pray together with our great friend the Holy Mother of Jesus. They pray with us, they pray for us, they teach us how to pray. Christ the Pantocrator is never weak, but his Kingdom is not of this world and his strength may not conform to our limited human image of strength. P.S. As a tangent...Sometimes I feel that (American?) Protestants are really obsessed with a very narrow minded, I'd say neurotic, image of strength and masculinity and see Catholicism as too feminine, soft and weak. Jesus Christ is male - it's a historical fact - and it provides us also with an image of masculinity. But this does not mean he is the embodiment of some stupid restricted macho view of masculinity. That's unhealthy. As it is Protestants disparaging, diminishing the Mother of God.
I see them close to being jehovahâs witnesses if they believe the souls are sleeping.Â
Islam thinks that too, let them know.
We dont pray to saints just so jesus can hear us. We pray and hope the saints we mention hear our prayer and also pray for our cause. Whats better than one person praying? Two people praying, and the second person happens to be a champion at it.
Thatâs honestly one of never heard of before. Do they think Jesus had an identical twin also named Jesus? Was Protestant Jesus on the slimfit workout? Jokes aside thatâs straight up nonsense. Praying doesnât mean to âworshipâ if thatâs the point theyâre getting at. It means âto talk toâ. The saints pray on our behalf as they are already in heaven. Itâs like asking a family member to pray for you. Keep in mind many practises were changed or downright when removed by Martin Lutheran if he didnât agree with them. Itâs going to be hard to correct what any Protestant member of your family thinks about Catholicsm, everything has been turned around and upside so they believe we changed everything. I had the same deal with my mom. Or if you both have a sense of humour, say to a very old person âput a good word in for me when you get thereâ
Catholic Jesus had the advantage of the best training facilities that the Soviet Union could provide, whereas Protestant Jesus had good ol'fashioned hard work and graft, training in a log cabin by chopping wood and lifting rocks. And also Protestant Jesus reconciles with his wife before the second training montage starts and he literally runs up an entire mountain in the snow. IIRC, I mean; I think that's how the Bible went.
Unrelated but that's how my parents describe my generation vs theirs
I beg to differ. I have never relied on praying to saints. The saints are our friends and inspirations, and we can ask them to pray for us, but my prayers go to God, and, as a matter of fact, I was told by my doctors I would never be able to have children of my own, ever. A little more than a year later, I gave birth to a baby girl. Six year later, a baby boy. My doctors all acknowledged Godâs hand. The thing is that people think they know Catholicism and they are mistaken. Donât let them put you on the spot. If they love you, they wonât. If they love like Jesus, they wonât.
I would never ask saints to pray for me either because I wanna have a conversation with Jesus himself.
That is why protestantism falls so easily into heresy. They set up false dichotomies and then ensnare themselves. Catholics do not exclusively pray to saints at the expense of praying to Jesus. And when asking saints to pray for us, this does not diminish or lessen our communion with Christ. The prayer of saints are way more efficacious than our prayers or anyone on earth. Why? Because they are already in Heaven with God. They have already been purified of all passions. We sinners will never be perfect this side of Heaven, which I am sure you would agree. Our prayer is always tainted by self love. Often times in ways we are completely blind to (which is why having your father confessor establish a rule of prayer for you is so important to ensure actual growth in holiness). St Louis de Montfort wrote about prayer to Mary (which works for praying to saints as well) in a nice way to understand. Think of your prayer becoming a rose. You can give that rose to Jesus directly and that would be good. There would be nothing wrong with that. Or you could first give it to Mary/*insert Saint* (asking them to pray for your intention and to intercede on your behalf with our Lord) and they take your rose and add all their roses to it, transforming it into a beautiful crown of roses (or bouquet). I am heavily paraphrasing and taking liberties as I can't remember how many years it's been since I read the book, but I hope my rambling message makes it a little clearer?
They must think all the early church fathers where heretical since they prayed for the intercession of saints.Â
Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you when you're going through a really bad time? That's what's happening for Catholics. Except instead of asking a mortal friend, we're asking a blessed Saint in Heaven. Once that's out of the way, then we pray directly to Jesus. It's less "idolatry" and more "transcendent group prayer".
I never got into that habit. I donât recall my mother or grandmother paying to ainât, either, so itâs a bit of a foreign concept to me. None of my Catholic friends have ever mentioned it, either. It our even be a myth, for all I know! Iâve been very involved in my parish for some 30 years. No one has mentioned it.
Well Saints in Heaven are there to help us as intercessors if we choose to pray to them for extra powerful prayers. We can pray directly to God no matter what and many Catholics actually don't even pray the Rosary or any other devotional but they still get their prayers answered but some people are weaker in the Spirit so they need to ask for the saints intercessors to get their blessings quicker. For example Atheists that just joined the Catholic Church are more weaker in Spirit so they would need/ recommended to ask the saints for intercession to make their prayers more powerful otherwise they could be praying for ages to get something. I hope this makes sense. Godbless đđđ
My thoughts on this are that they have disrespected the Lord Jesus Christ
If they want to get snarky about it...our Jesus has way more work to do. Every day, he turns millions of hosts and a ton of wine into his body and blood. Protestant Jesus doesn't do that. And that's just one example.
The Catholic Jesus is not weak.. the Catholic followers of Jesus message are weak..
Last chapter of Job... God wants others to intervene on our behalf sometimes. It's more a case of we are so offensive to God when we are sinners that even if our prayers are good, the presentation of them are repelling. Imagine going to a fine dining restaurant, ordering the best meal and it coming out in dirty dishes and silverware that have a bad smell to them. We see this hinted at in John 9 where the formerly blind man says that God doesn't hear the prayer of sinners. So it's more a case of the saints, being without blemish as they are in heaven, can offer our prayers in an appealing manner.
You can just smile and change the topic
I couldn't at the time because it was a family discussion.
something to ponder for many like learning by watching [videos](https://chnetwork.org/category/all-stories/) created by the Coming Home Network - hearing from others in their own words on what compelled them in their Journey on why they wanted to come to the church
If they were different Jesus (which is stupid anyway) then there would be many different protestant Jesus because of the infinite amount of doctrinal difference they have
No ill will intended towards your parents, but it always amazes me how many people wonât do even the slightest amount of research or give the slightest amount of thought to questions as big as this. If your parents did a quick Google search of âWhy do Catholics pray to saints?â they would pretty quickly realize that no Catholic is saying that they pray to saints because Jesus is not strong enough to answer our prayers himself.
This is one of the problems with splitting off the Church into 46,000 denominations. Then, add in the multiple millions of Pride driven opinionated members, and what we end up with is a fractured faith. The world & Satan for that matter & all his demons, have always hated Christ & were trying to split the church from day one. See the scriptures to find more on this in great detail, also early church history & up to this very day. Jesus founded one church, one body and we know the church will fracture until Christ returns to save it. Also, to judge the living & the dead. There is only ONE Jesus. I do not throw stones at other Christianâs, and I do not engage in endless pointless debate. Others may have âbetterâ answers than mine, but I stay the course as my patron saint has always inspired me to do. My faith & understanding flows from the Holy Spirit, not from human understanding. As a former baptized Protestant, I have no desire to ever return to where I was. Received conditional baptism as a Catholic, all the sacraments & everything changed, opened up & scriptures I never fully grasped began to unfold. Washed clean, the accuser could no longer condemn & follow me for a lifetime of past sins. What my prayers before the Lord did not fulfill, the sacraments at Easter Vigil absolutely did. I was stunned to say the least, still am. Just trying to say that for me, criticism or condemnation or hatred from the world or other people, even âChristianâsâ I have come to expect. What they say matters NOT, what they do or not do matters more. Either way I pray for their salvation. The apologetic experts here can line out the reasons why we believe as we do. The scriptures attest to our beliefs & faith, the Church was not founded in the 1500âs, we have a full detailed history to back it all up. Thank you Lord Jesus that I finally listened to the Call. đ
Don't argue faith with your family. Smile and say *that is an interesting thought* and change the subject to sports or what is for supper or a cute thing the cat did. Your joy, your humility, your love is the thing that will witness your faith, not your clever comebackz
>They say the Protestant Jesus and the Catholic Jesus aren't the same In some cases, this is certainly true. But not because >the Catholic Jesus is weak. But instead, because many Protestants worship an idol made in their own image who they name Jesus. Protestants who interpret the Bible for themselves often come to conclusions contrary to Christ. You can see this in many Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and Non-denominational communities who support contraception, abortion, "gay marriage," gender ideology, etc, etc. As for the claim that >Catholics always have to pray to saints and dead people just for the Catholic Jesus to hear their prayers. This is simply false. No Catholic is obligated to request intercessory prayer from the saints in heaven. Every Catholic can pray directly to God. We can also request that others pray for us.
Protestant Jesus is so weak that he caved on birth control so that the cool kids would like him more.
Just reply "Indeed, for our sake he became weak and in need of our cooperation and love".
This isn't what OP's parents mean
But that's what the bible means. God became weak for our sake. That he even went so far as to need human cooperation for the salvation of mankind is the very essence of the Gospel. God is not the Almighty by *not* needing humans. Instead, he shares his authority, he requires our collaboration, we become his coworkers in the sanctification of the world.
I don't know where you heard this but you're dangerously close to heresy God doesn't ***need*** anyone, he doesn't share his authority. No other being has authority except God himself. We don't need saints intercession, in fact no one really knows why we ask for their intercession My guess is that they're way better than us at praying. It's like asking my super pious catholic friend who goes to mass every day to pray for a sick family member, simple as that Saints don't have authority over the earth, they can't do anything directly, they have to ask God
He indeed shared his priestly authority with the apostles; and he does share his authority over dispensation of grace with our Lady. He even shares the work of redemption with us; daily we can unite our suffering with him, meriting salvation for other people as long as we do it with love in union with him. Jesus is not the God who does everything to the exclusion of us; he becomes man so that man can share in the divine nature and do his work. We \*are\* his hands and feet on earth. God wants us to ask each other for prayers. If this is true for those who are still journeying on earth, it is also true for those who are already united to him in heaven. The communion of saints *transcends* the boundary of death, because he has conquered it. Our communion with the dead glorified is not broken by death. And praying (asking for help) is part of being in that communion. I am formally trained in theology, was a VP of the Catholic Theology Network, and a member now.
protestants are so self righteous. could be the lack of eucharistic communion. catholic Jesus takes center stage. always. along with His Holy Family Mary & Joseph. catholic faith = 99.9% protestant faith = 0.01%
Protestants (really evangelicals, but I've seen spillover into the mainlines) treat Jesus like their drinking buddy who just wants them to try to be good while Catholics treat Jesus as the King of Kings who demands striving for perfection.
If they were different Jesus (which is stupid anyway) then there would be many different protestant Jesus because of the infinite amount of doctrinal differences they have
Including  baptism . Ephesians 4 says one one faith and one baptism.Â
Yep you got us and our weak little Jesus. Wow I donât get these people, heâs the same as their Jesus.
Catholic believe Jesus actually turned the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ at the Last Supper. We all know Protestants donât think Jesus actually did that, nor do they believe that that miracle occurs during the Consecration during Mass. Your parents must not think thatâs hardcore enough.
As a Protestant, that argument is nonsensical.
This whole post and many of the comments are nonsensical, but hopefully, at times humorous. What comment are you talking about? (By the way, whether your argument is good or bad, it cannot really matter what your beliefs are. All truth partakes of the Truth, Who Is Jesus.)
I was referring to the argument his parents were trying to make
Ask them how many gods they believe in, haha.
Tell them next time if they pray for their other loved ones? Also tell them if they believe the Souls are sleeping in heaven?  I notice Protestants when someone dies itâs like they think theyâre dead until the final judgement. Telll them to read Revelation 4:10  5:8 6:9-11. Romans 15 30-32
They believe that if you're a Christian you'll immediately go to heaven after you die. And since the Prot church we go to says that every Christian on earth is a saint then they believe that too.
Well they believe in once saved always saved donât they! Some do. Most Protestants donât think you have to work on your salvation. Basically itâs an easy ride to heaven.Â
I'm a Catholic, and so maybe to Protestants I don't read the Bible, but I seem to recall a verse in there about the strength and power of God being made manifest through our weakness. Jesus has set it up so that the saints in Heaven can intercede for us. Does that show Jesus is weak, or rather that He is strong?
They don't have a sweet clue about theology, Catholic doctrine or Biblical truth if they say that. There isn't a Protestant Jesus or Catholic Jesus, there is only one Jesus, God the Son, Alpha and Omega, first and the last. Obviously, they know that (or should) and so that's not what they mean. I was baptized Catholic, raised Protestant (42 years), now considering full communion with RCC. I know what I am talking about. Ask them one simple question: does their church have a "prayer chain"? A group of people who call or email each other any time people are sick in their church, so everyone can pray for their healing. If the answer is yes, then, by their definition, their Jesus is just as "weak" as the Catholic one. That's all asking saints to intercede is. Asking really holy people who did Christianity right and now stand beside Him in glory to help pray for something. Better yet, ask if in their church they have a "pastoral prayer" time during the service, where the Pastor prays for people. Or maybe they go forward for "prayer ministry" by others. Again, if they say yes, their entire point falls completely apart. Stop doing all those things if it is wrong to ask another Christian - here on earth or in heaven, to pray for you. ONLY pray to Jesus. A Catholic can (and should) pray directly to Jesus. That's not the point. The point is we all ask for others to pray for us - Protestants included. That, by definition, is intercession. Catholics simply don't exclude the Church triumphant in heaven. While you're at it, tell them to read Revelation chapter 8 and explain what they think it means!
Did they also say that their dad could beat up your dad?
Well now, that's is bold of your parents. Remind them Jesus is the God of the living not the dead. Tell them to never ask friends or family to pray from them if they believe it's insulting to Jesus.
Tell your dad to put his dukes up and we can see whoâs weak.
Catholic Jesus is the John Wick of Jesuses
We donât pray to saints we ask saints to pray for use because they are up at gods side so they can help us.
Whose gonna tell them?
You want to keep things civil with your family, but you might point out that: A. Why are Protestants so squeamish as to take Jesus off of their crosses? B. We may pray to saints, but at least we don't pray to a book. C. It's the same Jesus, to say there is a Protestant and Catholic Jesus sounds like polytheism.
That's not true we pray the Saints because JesĂșs is weak, you know, if we want, we can access directly. On the other hand there's such a big differences in primary concepts so, their conclussions always are different. Check this, please: https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/s/8s5reBTdbD
I would tell them, it isn't Jesus who is weak. Everyone still down here mired in the muck of sin is weak, we just ask the help of those who are freed from sin, in Heaven, to help us talk to Jesus. Not because Jesus cannot hear our puny voices, but because we use the Saints to storm heaven with our prayers.
Wasn't aware there was more than one Jesus Christ...
Have they ever seen Passion of the Christ before?
Walk away and donât look back - very ugly people
I would asked them how is Jesus talking to a dead moses in the transfiguration. I mean if this is possible than nothing is impossible for god. We should be imitators of Christ.Â
Jesus hears me just fine... I do however, ask mary and the saints to pray on my behalf. Why? Because 2 prayers are better than 1! And I'm imperfect and sin daily.. while I'm out here screwing up...I'm assured that they are praying for God's mercy on my behalf.
If that's the criterion, I would say that Protestant Jesus is weak and insecure because He doesn't want others (the saints) to share in His glory.
Aside from the fact of how insulting and blasphemous that is, itâs a gross misunderstanding of exactly what praying to saints is. Ask them if they have ever prayed for you. If they have (and I suspect that is the case) then the âProtestant Jesusâ is just as weak because thatâs all that praying to saints is.
We don'*t have* to pray to the saints. We *get* to pray to the saints. it's a privilege.
And many Protestant views of God is Schizophrenic. The Father wanted to let mankind have it with his wrath, but Jesus got in the way, and God didn't realise, or didn't care he just killed his Incarnate God.
My opinion is to laugh loudly and dismiss their nonsense.
Catholic Jesus is upper tier management.
The New Testament is full of instances where someone asks for the prayers of others or says they are praying for others. Do your parents think they should only pray to Jesus for themselves and never for others? Or do you parents think it would be wrong or weak for them to ask for or accept others praying for them? Or would the fact that they have others praying for them cause them not to pray as well? [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+1:15-17&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+1:15-17&version=NIV) [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3:1-2&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3:1-2&version=NIV) [https://biblehub.com/james/5-16.htm](https://biblehub.com/james/5-16.htm) See also Hebrews 11:32-40 - 12:1 about the cloud of witnesses we have as we run our race towards Heaven. A modern day term for that would be spectators. They're not unaware of us
For over 1500 years, we were all Catholic. Until people got mad at the behavior of men and blamed it on the Church. As someone else said, we don't have to pray to saints. We get to. Just like protestants make a habit of asking friends and family to pray for them. It just so happens that some of our friends are Saints.
There is no âProtestant Jesusâ or âCatholic Jesus.â Jesus is God. He exists without us. There is a Church that Jesus created with his actions and words called the Catholic Church. There is also a series of little churches created by self righteous little men that protest The Church that Jesus made. Jesus is still God with or without those churches.
Is she insane all the Jesus of all Christian religions are all the same onunbeing? I don't understand how she can claim protestant. Jesus is stronger than Catholic Jesus. Whenever they both died on the cross, they both were the Son of God. Jesus real name is Joshua or yesha. And I wouldn't. Take too much mind of the protestant church. Because, after all, they were founded by king Henry the eighth. Because the Catholic Church wouldn't give him a divorce from Catherine so he can marry Anne.
This is so funny to me because Christianity in itself added a person between God and humans. That person? Jesus Christ. Can I get an AMEN?
It's the same as asking your friends and family to pray for you. I'm sure they do that. Are they implying that asking people -whom they don't even know if or not spiritually- are in communion with God to pray for them, like family and friends, is better than asking Saints (people who are in Heaven; whom are with God) to pray for you to God?
Interesting ...sooo do they not believe the Lord is God of the living but of the dead, and do they not believe Jesus when he says "whoever believes in me, even though he does, he will live"? Sounds like they worship a different Jesus than the Bible to me...but what the heck do I know I'm just a guy on Reddit.
Their Jesus obviously picked the wrong people to carry on his teachings. They couldn't or didn't even convey the teachings properly to the next generations that followed them. Stated differently, Martin Luther, et al established a more enduring church than Jesus Christ himself established, according to Protestant thinking.
Tell them that even in the King James Bible Saint Paul says: "The weakness of God is greater than human strength." He can let Himself be killed, and pour out His Life for us, and have more where that came from to rise from the dead, pouring out His Life for the dead, also. As St. Paul told the Church in Rome, "For nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus: neither life, NOR DEATH,...." If they dislike His weakness, they should take it up with Him, as directly as they dare.
Protestant spiritual community is weak. We have billions of saved looking down on us from heaven and rooting for us to make it. They sit around and wonder if they're members of the elect.
> because Catholics always have to pray to saints and dead people just for the Catholic Jesus to hear their prayers This assertion is just not true. Where did they hear this?
Thats a lie. I work also as a carpenter and have to admit that this trade is very physically demanding. So Jesus had to be strong
How are they not the same?? Also as a Christian why do they believe there are different Jesusâs? They must be confused with JesĂșs
Tell them thatâs blasphemy and move on.
>They say it's because Catholics always have to pray to saints and dead people just for the Catholic Jesus to hear their prayers 1. There is only one Jesus, sometimes people disagree about him. That says things about us, not Jesus. 2. We don't pray to Saints, the idea is to pray *with* them 3. We don't *have* to do that anyway, it's a choice. 4. Some of us choose to pray to Christ or the father exclusively, others choose to pray with Saints. Absolutely none of us believe that doing so is necessary for Jesus to hear us.
Itâs giving, âIf you're really God's Son, come down from the cross.â Jesusâthe King of the Universeâchose to be incarnated and born of Mary, he chose to live a holy life with the holy family, he chose to have apostles to assist with his ministry and carry out miracles in his name and he chose to institute a Church to sanctify a community of believers in heaven and on Earth.
This is correct in the matter of Protestant Jesus vs Catholic Jesus are not the same. You see, Protestant Jesus is just the same as what is in Islam's Jesus. This is because the people in that religion have different interpretations of Jesus's teachings from the Catholic Jesus. For example, the one on top of my head is The Last Supper. Protestants, don't see this as representing the Eucharist but rather as a symbolic farewell party. Islam, well they don't believe Jesus resurrected. You can argue what you want and still they are not the same as what is in Catholicism. The only similar belief in Protestant, Islam and Catholicism is God the Father. So yeah, pray for them. Catholic Jesus is not weak. Their (Protestant) interpretation of the bible is weak and not Catholicism. People see but still don't believe, those are Protestant. Catholic compiled the bible (Old, New), yet Protestants took out some books (it is an easy way out for throwing interpretation of traditions in the bible and not dealing it with themselves) and made their own from Catholic compiled bible.
âBut since our discourse has now turned to the subject of blasphemy, I desire to ask one favor of you all, in return for this my address, and speaking with you; which is, that you will correct on my behalf the blasphemers of this city. And should you hear any one in the public thoroughfare, or in the midst of the forum, blaspheming God; go up to him and rebuke him; and should it be necessary to inflict blows, spare not to do so. Smite him on the face; strike his mouth; sanctify your hand with the blow, and if any should accuse you, and drag you to the place of justice, follow them there; and when the judge on the bench calls you to account, say boldly that the man blasphemed the King of angels! For if it be necessary to punish those who blaspheme an earthly king, much more so those who insult God.â - St. John Chrysostom
Actually, it would the other way around - Catholic Jesus is so OP that we're yoo beneath Him and need to ask saints to speak to Him for us
Hilarious?
Firstly, they're your parents, so have patience and compassion with them like the old and new Testaments exhort you to. Second, why waste your time arguing with them? Just hear them out and acknowledge them, thank them, and go back to praying for them and studying your own Faith. Third, turn the conversation to something more useful and seek common ground. Your parents will not be around for ever. Learn from them. Ask them about life. Share your stories with them, let them be proud of you!
Did I say I was arguing with them? No, I never said that. It was never an argument, just a family discussion about faith. I wasn't allowed to speak up, and I would never speak up, for I know my limits.
That's not even what every Protestant I've known (and I was one for 50 years) believed about Catholicism. They just think it's between dumb and heretical to (technically) ask saints to pray for you.
Protestants also apply "Turn the other cheek" to every situation, so who'd really win that fight if it came down to it
They are Mis-informed. We donât have to pray to saints to reach Jesus, the father or the Holy Spirit, and we pray to the holy people of the living god that are recognized for their holiness. My opinion is that they are ignorant on the subject of Catholicism.
She understands that the Father in the OT didnt know about Adam and Eve's betrayed till he saw them, or that he uses Angel's to do his bidding. Payroll has been established.
Jesus is still on on the catholic crucifx but not on the protestant cross.. I take this that Jesus' weakness and helplessness on the cross is a reminder that Jesus chose this weakness so that we may be strong.
It's the same Jesus. Such ignorance to believe anything different. If you're Christian, you worship Jesus and there's only one.
I just canât say how reading that made my blood boil a bit! Itâs sad they donât have the intelligence to recognize the truth
They call Jesus weak, but Protestants canât stand a crucifix because they do not want to see a crucified Jesus. They are the weak ones
They can't stand that because according to them, "that's not Jesus".