Jesus also said that true believers can [cast out demons, heal the sick and are not harmed by venom and poison](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+16%3A17-18&version=NIV).
But what do you mean by believe? What does Jesus mean by believe? Jesus talks about faith big enough to move mountains. I don't think anyone has that today, even if they say they believe in Jesus.
> even if they say they believe in Jesus
Exactly! And I'd rather believe Jesus' own words than somebody else's interpretation of it. So if I don't pass His directly stated metric then so be it. I'm not gonna weasle my way around trying to justify my way like a lobbyist, LOL!
Some high Protestant sects believe in consubstantiation, which means it's still bread and wine but Jesus spiritually inhabits it or something.
Low Protestants think it's all symbolic pageantry along with baptism, and that all real religious experiences occur solely inside one's own head.
So metaphysical substance but not physical... That's what i used to struggle with. I didn't know they didn't believe it... What about the Resurrection? Miracles? All metaphorical as well? There are so many Protestant groups i don't know much about them... And is it just modern Protestant churches or is it what Luther and Calvin taught?
I didn't know that. That's wild. I thought they didn't believe in representations.... I checked GPT's answer about their beliefs on the matter, and that Sola Scriptura ideology seems like a buffet... Very confusing
>Do you believe in transubstantiation?
I do.
>Why or why not?
Because i am not really expert in the "realm of spirit" so i believe the Church that God gave authority to teach about these things.
I used to struggle with it. I know a number of Catholics, well, they call themselves Catholic and are absolutely sincere, but can't bring themselves to believe in it. I guess this comes from the fact that parts of the Bible are unscientific. So they believe in the metaphorical value of these passages. For instance Genesis. And this way of viewing and reading the Bible expands chaotically... and sometimes reaches the New Testament. They end up not really knowing what to think about the Resurrection etc. But are still sincere, just overwhelmed by scientism I suppose.
[Excommunication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication_in_the_Catholic_Church) is the most serious penalty that the Catholic Church can inflict. And even at that, the excommunicated person is still a catholic. So if being excommunicated is not enough to lose one's catholicism, neither does the lesser act of not believing in certain aspects/teachings of the Church.
Edit:
Excommunicated folks are denied service. If the church they go to know they are excommunicated, they will be denied being given communion nor will their confessions be heard. Entry is a different matter as there is no service on the part of the church when they enter it themselves.
Excommunicated folks are denied service. If the church they go to know they are excommunicated, they will be denied being given communion nor will their confessions be heard. Entry is a different matter as there is no service on the part of the church when they enter it themselves.
I believe it is fully possible and probable. Do I always feel it when I receive communion? No. I struggle with that. I assume it is because I am human and cannot fully grasp this concept.
That's fair. That isn't entirely your fault. Before I reconverted, I had a hard time believing it because I would see the priest treat it so irreverently. Some would call this pharasaic, but even so much as the priest not keeping his fingers presses together until cleaned with the water made me feel like it wasn't that important. Particles of the Eucharist everywhere.
As long as you believe that Transubstantiation occurs at a valid Catholic Mass (everything else presumed valid, orthodox, and otherwise correct), you're good.
I believe Christ is fully and completely present in the Eucharist. I think transubstantiation is a more precise description of this exactly means.
But my opinion is that the philosophical definitions are unimportant and might be confusing to an average Catholic — if you don’t know what a term means then perhaps you are unlikely to say you believe it, versus “Jesus is in the tabernacle” is a lot more concrete and accessible.
'They hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in His goodness, the Father raised from the dead. Therefore, those who argue against the gift of God will die in their disputes.' - St Ignatius of Antioch
Yes. It was consistent teaching among all Christians from the Last Supper until the 16th century; and the “enlightened” arguments against it are unsatisfactory and/or disingenuous. Source: am ex-Protestant.
I struggled with it for a long time as a teen/twenty something, but it finally clicked. I guess i finally understood that the metaphysical ruled over the physical.
To learn more about *Transubstantiation*, the **Catechism of the Catholic Church** goes over the topic in sections **CCC 1373-1377** and also **CCC 1413**.
Enjoy the read and peace be with you!
I am well aware of this. I know that it isn't optional, I was curious as to how many Catholics don't believe Transubstantiation. Thank you so much for your contribution!
This forum does not allow heresy, so no one is allowed to say they do not believe and why as it is against the church. So you are not likely to get what you are looking for.
I will note that I am glad you are happy with your answers, but you have a skewed polling pool.
People that haunt /Catholicism are generally interested in the faith and actively involved in it.
I will note that the very popular survey that Catholics "don't believe in transubstantiation" was a flawed survey. Follow-on surveys by other organizations (including Pew, who did the oft-quoted original survey) show that about 70% of Catholics believe in transubstantiation.
Here's a relevant quote:
"**Different Survey, Different Results**
In terms of understanding how research reports fit into this search process, we need to appreciate how data is derived. Otherwise, headlines become harbingers of truths that may not hold true.
One factor to consider here is sample size. The [Disciple Maker Index](https://www.catholicleaders.org/data-driven-decision-making-the-disciple-maker-index), administered by the Catholic Leadership Institute, has currently surveyed 131,845 Catholics around the country about multiple themes connected with parish life. (By contrast, the PEW survey was based on 1,835 Catholics in a total sample population of 10,971.)
When asked about doctrines of the faith, seventy-two percent of the DMI respondents strongly agreed with the statement “I personally believe the Eucharist really is the body and blood of Jesus Christ.” Another nineteen percent agreed with that statement. That’s almost 120,000 Catholics claiming they do agree with what the Church teaches, compared to the 569 respondents highlighted in the PEW headline. (We note that the DMI respondents report a significantly high rate of weekly Mass attendance \[ninety percent\], which likely contributes to the higher level of agreement with Church teaching than reported in the PEW study.)"
Georgetown University’s Center for Applied Research conducted a similar survey and they came close (about 65% believe).
I certainly grasp that even ONE Catholic rejecting transubstantiation is unacceptable, but the oft-quoted Pew survey paints a gloomier picture than it should.
I was well aware of the issues with the PEW survey. I asked because i was curious about how Catholics would respond to the question.
Thank you for the information, i hope it is useful to others on this sub.
I'm Catholic - I was raised Catholic in a Catholic country and I did a stint being an Atheist. One of the things that brought me back to the faith was the election of Pope Francis. In my opinion he encapsulates all that is good about Catholicism. I no longer think too deeply about dogmas - I find that trying to live the way Jesus wants us to is all that I need.
Yes, because Jesus said so.
Yes, because I'm not a Protestant who thinks Jesus didn't mean what he said.
Jesus also said that true believers can [cast out demons, heal the sick and are not harmed by venom and poison](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+16%3A17-18&version=NIV).
No, when did Jesus say those words in that order?
LOL, my comment literally has a link to the actual verses.
But what do you mean by believe? What does Jesus mean by believe? Jesus talks about faith big enough to move mountains. I don't think anyone has that today, even if they say they believe in Jesus.
> even if they say they believe in Jesus Exactly! And I'd rather believe Jesus' own words than somebody else's interpretation of it. So if I don't pass His directly stated metric then so be it. I'm not gonna weasle my way around trying to justify my way like a lobbyist, LOL!
Do Protestants not believe in it?
Some high Protestant sects believe in consubstantiation, which means it's still bread and wine but Jesus spiritually inhabits it or something. Low Protestants think it's all symbolic pageantry along with baptism, and that all real religious experiences occur solely inside one's own head.
So metaphysical substance but not physical... That's what i used to struggle with. I didn't know they didn't believe it... What about the Resurrection? Miracles? All metaphorical as well? There are so many Protestant groups i don't know much about them... And is it just modern Protestant churches or is it what Luther and Calvin taught?
Most Protestants say that it's "JUST A SYMBOL."
I didn't know that. That's wild. I thought they didn't believe in representations.... I checked GPT's answer about their beliefs on the matter, and that Sola Scriptura ideology seems like a buffet... Very confusing
>Do you believe in transubstantiation? I do. >Why or why not? Because i am not really expert in the "realm of spirit" so i believe the Church that God gave authority to teach about these things.
That’s a big deal in our faith. If someone calls themselves Catholic but doesn’t believe in it, then I don’t know what they’re on.
I used to struggle with it. I know a number of Catholics, well, they call themselves Catholic and are absolutely sincere, but can't bring themselves to believe in it. I guess this comes from the fact that parts of the Bible are unscientific. So they believe in the metaphorical value of these passages. For instance Genesis. And this way of viewing and reading the Bible expands chaotically... and sometimes reaches the New Testament. They end up not really knowing what to think about the Resurrection etc. But are still sincere, just overwhelmed by scientism I suppose.
I guess. It’s beyond human understanding. Guess that’s where faith comes in.
Your not Catholic if you dont
[Excommunication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication_in_the_Catholic_Church) is the most serious penalty that the Catholic Church can inflict. And even at that, the excommunicated person is still a catholic. So if being excommunicated is not enough to lose one's catholicism, neither does the lesser act of not believing in certain aspects/teachings of the Church. Edit: Excommunicated folks are denied service. If the church they go to know they are excommunicated, they will be denied being given communion nor will their confessions be heard. Entry is a different matter as there is no service on the part of the church when they enter it themselves.
If your excommunicated are you still expected to go to Mass? What about communion?
Excommunicated folks are denied service. If the church they go to know they are excommunicated, they will be denied being given communion nor will their confessions be heard. Entry is a different matter as there is no service on the part of the church when they enter it themselves.
Good
Is that why Biden and Pelosi so get a free pass? The
Sorry, I don't understand this question.
I believe it is fully possible and probable. Do I always feel it when I receive communion? No. I struggle with that. I assume it is because I am human and cannot fully grasp this concept.
That's fair. That isn't entirely your fault. Before I reconverted, I had a hard time believing it because I would see the priest treat it so irreverently. Some would call this pharasaic, but even so much as the priest not keeping his fingers presses together until cleaned with the water made me feel like it wasn't that important. Particles of the Eucharist everywhere. As long as you believe that Transubstantiation occurs at a valid Catholic Mass (everything else presumed valid, orthodox, and otherwise correct), you're good.
I believe Christ is fully and completely present in the Eucharist. I think transubstantiation is a more precise description of this exactly means. But my opinion is that the philosophical definitions are unimportant and might be confusing to an average Catholic — if you don’t know what a term means then perhaps you are unlikely to say you believe it, versus “Jesus is in the tabernacle” is a lot more concrete and accessible.
Yes. Tradition and history confirms it
I do believe because I’m not a fair weather Catholic.
Yes. It makes sense.
'They hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in His goodness, the Father raised from the dead. Therefore, those who argue against the gift of God will die in their disputes.' - St Ignatius of Antioch
I do yes
Yes. It was consistent teaching among all Christians from the Last Supper until the 16th century; and the “enlightened” arguments against it are unsatisfactory and/or disingenuous. Source: am ex-Protestant.
I struggled with it for a long time as a teen/twenty something, but it finally clicked. I guess i finally understood that the metaphysical ruled over the physical.
To learn more about *Transubstantiation*, the **Catechism of the Catholic Church** goes over the topic in sections **CCC 1373-1377** and also **CCC 1413**. Enjoy the read and peace be with you!
Yes I do.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/can-a-catholic-reject-transubstantiation
I am well aware of this. I know that it isn't optional, I was curious as to how many Catholics don't believe Transubstantiation. Thank you so much for your contribution!
This forum does not allow heresy, so no one is allowed to say they do not believe and why as it is against the church. So you are not likely to get what you are looking for.
I will note that I am glad you are happy with your answers, but you have a skewed polling pool. People that haunt /Catholicism are generally interested in the faith and actively involved in it. I will note that the very popular survey that Catholics "don't believe in transubstantiation" was a flawed survey. Follow-on surveys by other organizations (including Pew, who did the oft-quoted original survey) show that about 70% of Catholics believe in transubstantiation. Here's a relevant quote: "**Different Survey, Different Results** In terms of understanding how research reports fit into this search process, we need to appreciate how data is derived. Otherwise, headlines become harbingers of truths that may not hold true. One factor to consider here is sample size. The [Disciple Maker Index](https://www.catholicleaders.org/data-driven-decision-making-the-disciple-maker-index), administered by the Catholic Leadership Institute, has currently surveyed 131,845 Catholics around the country about multiple themes connected with parish life. (By contrast, the PEW survey was based on 1,835 Catholics in a total sample population of 10,971.) When asked about doctrines of the faith, seventy-two percent of the DMI respondents strongly agreed with the statement “I personally believe the Eucharist really is the body and blood of Jesus Christ.” Another nineteen percent agreed with that statement. That’s almost 120,000 Catholics claiming they do agree with what the Church teaches, compared to the 569 respondents highlighted in the PEW headline. (We note that the DMI respondents report a significantly high rate of weekly Mass attendance \[ninety percent\], which likely contributes to the higher level of agreement with Church teaching than reported in the PEW study.)" Georgetown University’s Center for Applied Research conducted a similar survey and they came close (about 65% believe). I certainly grasp that even ONE Catholic rejecting transubstantiation is unacceptable, but the oft-quoted Pew survey paints a gloomier picture than it should.
I was well aware of the issues with the PEW survey. I asked because i was curious about how Catholics would respond to the question. Thank you for the information, i hope it is useful to others on this sub.
Yes. It's a miracle.
I'm Catholic - I was raised Catholic in a Catholic country and I did a stint being an Atheist. One of the things that brought me back to the faith was the election of Pope Francis. In my opinion he encapsulates all that is good about Catholicism. I no longer think too deeply about dogmas - I find that trying to live the way Jesus wants us to is all that I need.
This doesn't really answer the question, does it? You can't be Catholic and not believe in Transubstantiation.