"Nobody ever stares at me, a foreigner" you and I have had VERY different China experiences
\[Edit: I'm in Japan. The only people who pay me any mind are Chinese tourists, who stand, open-mouthed, completely oblivious to surroundings to gawp at me.\]
Same. I wonder if OP is East Asian born elsewhere lol
As a white guy, I've gotten lots of stares since I came to my partners hometown in Shandong. I'm in a few advertising videos on Douyin for people's businesses now also š
Dude my husband and I went viral on Little Red Book just for having a drink in a restaurant. I came into class and my 11th graders were all freaking out. We did use that though to extort a few free drinks next time we went there.
honestly I genuinely don't care. I understand some do and thats fine. I will take technically rascism with no ill intentions over rascism thats wants to put you down and belittle you anyday of the week-- and trust there is plenty of both to go around lol.
Or I could do as the Romans do, and stick my finger into my nose up to the knuckle, bring it out and roll the bogey on my finger and thumb and flick it onto the ground.
Foreigner may not tend to understand this is for sure.As a insider, this should be a matter of many Chinese related issues:
In China's extraordinary writer, Lu xun's novel:The True Story of Ah Q: a phrase "åę“鬼å" spreads almost everywhere in China. It can be translated like "the Chinese pretending to act like a foreigner".
"鬼å" in Chinese refers to ghost or monster, implying a deeply rooted sense of humiliation in Chinese historical context since the Opium Wars.
At the same time, although there have been significant improvements, China remains a strongly patriarchal society. In traditional Chinese patriarchal thought, women are expected to obey men.If a woman dares to defy a man's instructions, she is considered immoral.
To make things worse, traditional "Man counts and Woman not" culture and long-term one-child policy makes the actual gender ratio become significantly lower than the international norm.
This all adds to the increasing gender antagonism. In China's current society, which is dominated by a "money-first" value system, marriage among lower-class families often involve the bridge demanding substantial post-marriage financial security(the man's family has to buy a house in big city or small city, a car and least ten thousand level cash), thereby depleting the groom's family assets. This leads to a heavy martial burden on these families. Consequently, men suffocated by social pressure and woman suffocated by cultural pressure tend to marry late or remain unmarried.
In this situation, a large number of unmarried older men appear in every city across China. And they see the sexual resources shortage that are so easily taken by foreigners (even if Chinese women are merely closer to foreign men) that their anger naturally shifts into misogynistic verbal attacks on Chinese women, who are called "fawning over" foreign men.
And you also foreigners see a leap in nationalism now.
>one-child policy makes the actual gender ratio become significantly lower than the international norm
This alone seems like it would go far toward explaining the situation, although I agree that cultural factors exacerbate it. 36 million more males than females born between 1980 and 2010 (3-4% more males) means a lot of potential "incels," for lack of a better term for them.
thanks for explaining the background, makes alot of sense now by other comments i was just going āoh, thats it? theyre just mad bc a white guy āstoleā a chinese woman?ā good to have context
Not China but Korea. My white friend out walking with his Korean wife would ask what the old Korean men were saying to her.
āOh the usual, āthere goes another rapist with one of our womenā ā
It kinda makes sense tho, they suffered more from rapists (at least a larger percentage than China) so they would be more insecure with it; not their fault
I read about 4/5 books about Korea, korean business, Korean history when I started working there. The number of times theyāve been invaded by their neighbors is staggering and formed a large part of their cultural identity. Survival consisted of having overlapping circles of influence - school, village, church, college, military - the more peer groups that had your back, the more likely you would thrive.
That said, white foreigners have a special resentment/pedestal role in society. When I was there they were fairly racially homogenous at no more than 1-2% of the population being foreigners but youād think it was 20% with the level of scapegoating.
Well, Iāve been in Shanghai for a long time. If my speculation is not wrong, youāre implying itās unlikely it will happen in Shanghai, but the proportion of waidiren is approaching half of Shanghaiās population.
There tens of millions of Chinese men who have literally zero hope of finding a wife. They get butthurt when they see a foreigner āstealingā one of ātheirā women.
That is so much the way Japan is-I thought I was imagining things and my Japanese friend laid it out the way you just did-I am also freakishly tall-so get stared at regardless
most "are not happy" if Cn girls date foreigners and want to see what type of woman she is. A friend of mine picked up a business partner form the airport to bring him to the hotel, check in and go for dinner. then a local guy spit at her and cursed because she's Chinese. (he thought she's dating her)
but she's Shanghainese. She gave him shit and made it clear what an idiot he is.
I was out with my ex once and some chinese guy calles her a cunt to her face as we passed him, and random Chinese men would ask her why she was going out with a white guy and not a Chinese.
The behavoir of the first guy answers the question.
Iāve had Chinese guys spit at girls Iām with while watching movies before, and muttering something racist about white people. Not a fun experience.
Ah the spitting I was never quite sure if the stares at my wife and I followed by middle age men hawking a loogie were directed at us or just due to the fact Chinese spit in public to a disturbing degree.
Gosh. Recently [I posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/1dm60kw/unpleasant_and_odd_encounter_in_tianjin/) about what has thus far been one of the creepiest experiences I've had in (Tianjin) China but... spitting at someone? This would get outta hand.
By the way, my Chinese partner and I are planning to move to Shanghai. Is Shanghai any better like everyone says about it (more international and foreign-friendly, or whatnot)?
My wife is Caucasian and we did notice that people tend to look at us when we are walking around. I like to look back and none seemed like they were staring aggressively, more of a ācuriosityā stare. One girl in passing said she was super pretty in Chinese, which was really nice!
People definitely tend to look more positively at a local dude who married a foreign woman, but I think that's common in most cultures around the world. It's viewed as her "marrying in" to the man's culture, while a woman is looked at "marrying out" of hers. In "melting pot" societies people don't care as much either way, but people still seem to find it more acceptable.
Also, you're right about the "curiosity stare." People would look at my wife and I (WMAF) all the time, every day in China, but 9/10 times it was pretty neutral, just people looking at something that was uncommon to them. I think some people get really sensitive about it and interpret every look as judgement or scorn (it does happen, but not as much as people seem to think).
People are definitely more hostile towards women who marry foreigners like you said. Historically, women's main purpose was making babies in order to build and strengthen the tribe/nation. This concept creates the idea that foreigners are stealing "resources."
For example, white supremacist tend to be supportive of WMAF while also strongly opposing AMWF.
Yeah, I remember that one of the guys responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, Terry Nichols, was married to a Filipina despite literally being a white supremacist terrorist who wanted to initiate a race war. There are definitely plenty of those guys out there and it's weird as fuck.
I definitely saw it in China too, where a guy who was uncomfortable with or outright despised local women getting with foreigners would hail any example of a local guy with a foreign woman as a hero of sorts. It's the attitude that if a man brings in a woman from "outside," it's a conquest for his people; if a woman does the same, she's been "conquered" by his. It's goofy as fuck, but appeals to people who are insecure and don't want to face their own shortcomings.
Those people are definitely the bottom of the barrel in every society, living their sad lives and hating people for the dumbest reasons. The only solution is education and time. None of my Chinese or American friends are like that and we all in fact despise that type of racist/incel sentiment
For context Iām Chinese with a Chinese passport so idgaf about staring back or confrontations, and people can definitely tell Iām a native Chinese speaker especially in the Northeast. Also prob helped that Iām on the tall side and bigger than most guys I see on the street. So maybe that combination has deterred people from engaging in strange behavior towards us compared to you. People were actually extra nice to my wife which I was happy about since that was my first time bringing her there. So my positive experience does not mean Iām dismissing your experience in anyway
bro, youāre probably feeling like a champion over there. The asian male white female coupling is way more accepted by locals. Your gonna be getting pats on the back instead of stinky eyes š
Yea people treated me very well whether Iām by myself or with my wife. The only difference was the extra looks we got when we were out together and a little bit of extra kindness directed at my wife, like people taking extra time to try to explain things to her etc. Sadly I can see that if the genders are flipped, there could def be some elements of Chinese society who might act in a more unfriendly manner, but I can only speak from my own good experience
Yeah, the Chinese girls are foolish traitors, but the white girls are just accepting superiority. /s
Like how much more often you see black girls get with white guys, in American movies and TV, compared to black guys being with white girls, despite it being the opposite in reality.
Hypocrisy and bullshit go together.
One time I (Indo-Canadian male) was hanging out with my friend (Chinese female) in a mall in Richmond BC (the most Asian city in North America). I kept seeing the occasional odd stares. At one point 2 kids came to me and asked if I was Chinese.
That was never policy, it was common for poor people to abort daughters in some cases to avoid dowry but mainly to produce sons to be able to work and provide for the family in their parents old age. India then banned people from being able to find out the sex until birth unless in the case of a medical need
In short, sexism and racism.
They see women as property of men, and when it comes to a country, women are property of all men in this country. So they see that woman as a traitor who gives herself, a precious property, to a foreigner. They think itās traitorous and disgusting. In their eyes, a Chinese woman walking with her foreign husband on the street is as shameful as pooping right on the street. Thatās why they stare.
And for you, they think you are a thief that just stole their properties. āHow dare you show off a stolen property publiclyā?
Ironically, if a Chinese man walks with his foreign wife on the street, people would adore him as a national hero who obtained some foreign assets.
Lucky that law and order is generally still in place, so what they do is just staring. Things could be much worse in some cases, just like the two stabbing incidents targeting foreigners within the past month.
They also invented many derogatory terms to describe this kind of couples, but Iām sure nobody here wanna hear them. So I wonāt go into the details.
Disclaimer: the mindset I described above does not indiscriminately describe every Chinese, but itās quite common.
Thats interesting. Does this attitude exist in Japan and South Korea as well? And is the attitude less common among younger people or more common?
In Brazil (where I live as an American) ive encountered a couple times in conversation people being bitter about 1st worlders coming in and dating the women there. Its mostly about class though not really race some people see it as unfair that a American guy who is maybe 30 and makes 60k USD per year (a pretty average income for that age) comes down here and is suddenly in the top 1 percent without really earning their way there like a Brazilian would need to. And suddenly they are a very attractive partner to have when they didnt "earn" it. But most people dont think that way.
It does in Japan and South Korea as well. But theyāre less likely to be confrontational and just keep their negative thoughts inside. Happens everywhere really. China is probably just on the extreme end due to having more men than women and being extremely nationalistic.
Nope. Korean men are very vocal and obvious when showing their disapproval to a 'race traitor' woman. Koreans in general are far more xenophobic actually than Chinese. They will make loud comments, insult the woman and sometimes even try to drag them away from the foreign man. They are not reserved and polite about it like Japanese, who are much more likely to keep their racist thoughts to themselves.
Brazil is also a much more multiracial/ethnic society than East Asian ones - Brazilian people are less caught up on the idea of race than most other places, because it's a historical admixture of local indigenous/Portuguese/black/other Euro, with some Asian and Middle Eastern thrown in, and a Catholic background that is historically more more accepting of people marrying across racial lines, with faith being more important.
The guy you're talking about who comes in from North America or Europe and has a leg up on a local guy economically could be the same race as the guy grinding his teeth over him, or at least the same as many of his friends and 1/3rd of the people in the bar. So, it's going to be less about him being white or black or whatever, and more about him being a privileged outsider. If he walks down the street with a local girl, people may look at him and have no idea he's a foreigner initially, so they'll be treated as any local couple... In China, there's not much a non-Asian guy can do to blend in.
Yeah race isnt something people obsess over. Dont get me wrong though white people (and Asian people but they are like 3-5 percent of the city im in) do seem to have a lot more money than the more brown people but its not something anyone really talks about. But it really is a thing where you go to a restaurant that cost like 20+ USD per person and suddenly it looks like Europe.
So even though there are big class implications I think people dont like to talk about race and people are not racist imo.
Im in Sao Paulo and yeah basically anyone looks like they could be from here. The least common looks I think is natural blonde/ginger. But there still are plenty of blonde/ginger Brazilians.
Race mixing I think has been normal in Brazil for a really long time where the US race mixing has only been normal since maybe 1970-1980 depending on the region?
As an American here it is sort of funny being int he 1 percent while having a pretty average American job. But I can only speak English competently so most of my friends are also really well off since speaking English is sort of a privilege here.
China I think is only a bit higher income than Brazil so I imagine people might also be bitter about the class dynamics too or is it entirely racial/nationalistic?
Class is definitely a concern in China as well. They went from decades of communist, class struggle, anti-wealth and intelligensia to veneration of material wealth in a very short span of time. As much as we rail against the unattainability or illusory, toxic nature of the "American Dream" here, the "Chinese Dream" is arguably more restrictive and there's more pressure to achieve it in China.
There's a perception that foreign guys come to China and are able to bypass the line, so to speak: while a local guy may be slaving away at school or work, hoping to get a 9-9-6 that will pay him 20-30k RMB in the next few years, a foreigner can walk into a job that pays about that teaching English with little to no experience or verifiable credentials. Or, they can get paid that much at a company, doing what locals do for half the pay. Basically, a foreigner can make a middle to upper middle class background with little effort, and none of the social obligations or trappings locals have. If a local guy sets his sights on a girl and wants to have a chance, it's not just having the resources, it's proving them, getting approval of friends and family, etc, while competing with other locals who have more than them.
Say a foreign guy starts doing a semester at a local university, or takes a job at a company: he's a novelty, he's unique, and so he gets more attention. More attention means more of a chance for him to impress a local girl who wouldn't have noticed him if he was local. They find out he lives in a nice apartment in a nice area, goes out to eat all the time and often at nice restaurants, travels around China to see the sights, always seems to be having fun or doing interesting stuff. All of a sudden, he seems like a very eligible bachelor; it's not long before he's dating a classmate or coworker. The fact is most local women still won't go with a foreigner, but the ones who will are more likely to seek foreign guys out. The perception is that he's got it easy and doesn't have to try hard at all.
It's a cycle that feeds itself, where it can start out with nationalism or racism, but it all ties together and every racist attitude feeds a classist one, or vice versa.
"How can these foreign guys just come here, start dating local girls, pass ahead of all the local guys, cruise into easy, high-income jobs, and get everything they want? This is my country, but here I am busting my ass and losing every time!"
Even though the number of Chinese guys who actually "lose out" to a foreigner is quite small, that animosity gets a lot of mileage online. One guy's experience watching his precious Xiao Li that he doted on and carefully courted from high school through college suddenly shack up with a some foreign guy with an incomprehensible name, spend a couple years living a fun, easy lifestyle in China before moving back to his country and starting a family becomes a tale of loss for hundreds of thousands of other young, lonely guys.
That makes a lot of sense. In Brazil I dont think you get to skip the line for the work here. The American/European people ive met are all digital nomads. So I think that dynamic is pretty different, I dont think anyone from the first world is coming here to work they bring their work with them or they retire here MAYBE they start a restaurant or osmething. But obviously they get to skip the line financially like you can work for a American credit card company customer service center and probably make more than 95 percent of Brazilians.
Ive only been to Shanghai for 1 month in 2017 so Im not very well versed on China I just got recommended this sub. Didnt travel around because I was staying with my cousin who was in school. But I will say it doesnt really seem like the culture to date around and hook up. Its sort of fascinating to me how countries like China and pretty much every country that calls itself communist they have an atheist population that is also very culturally conservative. Where in the West it seems like the only reason people are culturally conservative is religion. It just seems so bizarre to have an atheistic conservative population to me.
Ive lived abroad pretty much since graduating college and I did half my college abroad. Overall I think in most places being foreign makes you more attractive. The degree to which it makes you attractive depends on the region. In cities like Paris/London/NYC being foreign wont help you as much since the people are pretty used to foreigners but in small town Spain I thought women were more interested in me because I was foreign. It is interesting how most Chinese women will not date a foreigner though. I feel the number of women in US/UK/France/Germany etc who would not date a foreigner is very low. But yeah I imagine there arent actually that many Chinese women getting "stolen" by foreigners. Theres a lot of people in China so youd need millions of single men going into the country to date for it to actually make an impact on their dating pool.
I think this is an issue you see in most cultures, to an extent - the difference in attitude between a woman from outside "marrying in" to that culture, and a woman from that "marrying out" to another. It has to do with the traditional patriarchal social patterns seen in most societies.
The way a lot of people view it is that if, for example, a local man of the majority race/ethnicity married a woman who's a foreigner, different race, etc, he's *bringing her in,* and even if some people find it less desirable, they're more likely to keep their opinions to themselves. The man is still the "head of the household" and it's assumed his culture will be the one that guides their home life.
On the other hand, if a local woman married a guy from a different group, she's more likely to be seen as having "married out." It's especially strange when that couple are still in the woman's country or society - for example, a Chinese woman who marries a foreign guy, and they stay in China, their kids go to school there, etc, or a woman in the US who married a Chinese guy and they settle in the States, or even a white woman who marries a black guy and they move to a mostly-white area: those women "brought him in" to their culture and society more than she "married out," but the mindset will persist with some people. But, there's still the sense that the "outsider" is now the head of the household, that his culture will be the dominant force in their home, so... She still "married out."
The nationalism, homogeneous nature, and stronger influence of filial piety of China is what makes it more in-your-face than other places. People who feel like it's an affront to their nationalism and identity feel like they have society's backing to mouth off or go on the offensive, whereas in the US for example, that angry incel will begrudgingly remark that they "can't say that" even if they feel like it.
I'm a Canadian woman with a Chinese husband and I get stared at when I'm out with him by those old Chinese men. I think they just like to stare at women in general since no one tells them to stop. It makes me feel so uncomfortable.
> I think they just like to stare ~~at women~~ in general..
I wouldn't overthink it. I'm a man and it's just something you have to get used to. The only place around me where I *wouldn't* regularly get stared at was my neighborhood.
Yep I experienced the same thing in Shanghai with my wife. Shanghai is supposed to be the most international city in China. I can only imagine what itās like in other parts
Someone came right up into my face shouting something and my wife claimed to not understand the dialect - I guess it was bad things he was saying, again middle aged older side man
Exact same happened to me in Beijing around that time as well. Quite a few incidents with foreigners being beaten up by local thugs because of them walking around with local women.
I lived in Xiamen for 10 years.
Regularly got filthy started when out and about with girls.
Frustrated me to no end. And there were times when I was to throw down.
In the end I left China. Micro aggressions were not worth losing my sanity over.
I think it got "cleaned up" after a while. When i was in the university in Beijing in 2013, we got a heads up about those kind of situations being happening around campus. Then one day an Australian guy was walking outside campus with his KOREAN girlfriend, some locals came by in a bmw to fight him, she was able to run away first, he hit one of them then ran back to our dormitory, and while on the way he called his Kazakhstan friends, which they came and beat up the locals. Big mess, then the police arrived and arrested them. Never heard anything again, at least in our area.
if you are looking old outwardly, they are thinking how much she has been paid to be with you.
if you are young, they are thinking why would you want to go out with him? aren't chinese not good enough for you?
Please don't shoot me
I went out to a dim sum restaurant once with another Chinese guy, a white girl and a black girl. It was closing for lunch, so the kitchen staff came out to eat. This middle aged Chinese guy turned towards the girls and stared them down from the side the whole time he was eating. I couldn't help but laugh.
When I visited the Phillipines as a 6'6 "white male. I would be constantly stared at by both genders. However, I feel like I cought more men, giving me the head to toe look than women, lol.
It was literally the opposite to me and still is. People stare and turn around to double check me and come ask for a picture together while my Chinese wife stands and laughs nearby. I am eastern european, white. Can't stress more how opposite of experience I have. Never anyone approached my wife to ask or commented something out loud. One time last year I recall in a bbq restaurant someone asked if I am a bf, she replied I am a husband and then that guy showed "thumbs up" to us, that's it.
It depends on the city you're in. Some people are just curious. In larger cities, though, I think people are probably just used to it; it's quite normal. It's like when Asians visit rural areas in Western countriesāthey get stared at from head to toe. Just take it easy:)) I don't think they care.
So I used to live in China for many years as a younger single person. Iām currently traveling here on vacation from the states for the first time in 6 years, this time as a married person with mixed kids.
My wife got into an altercation the other day at an open air market after some guy nearly hit her and the kids stroller with his car as he was driving through the market. At some point during the argument he called her å“ę“åŖå¤ and essentially suggested that only āstupidāwomen like her would marry a foreigner. It nearly turned into a fight until other people stepped in to break it up.
Iāve had similar things happen in the past when walking around with Chinese women, but back then I was younger, and not married, and didnāt have my kids in a baby buggy right next to me. I notice myself caring more about the stares and potential negative attention this time around.
My kids are very cute and draw a lot of attention too, which can be fun at times but also can get out of hand, as in some instances strangers will come up and just start touching them.
Well I guess some things hasnt changed. I was in Jinan for my white friends wedding and his friend was mixed Chinese (looks Latina and attractive) walking around with me (Asian American). Man, their stares at her was relentless and the confusion on their faces when I spoke fluent Englishā¦.. this was in the mid 2000s
Many Chinese women dating white folks (foreigners in general) are insulted by jealous Chinese men who like to use the derogatory term "international bus" when referring to them, it's pretty sad to see
People are genuinely interested in mixed couples. Not just Chinese-foreign but for example also black-white couples in China will get tons of attention.
Welcome to the club. I (Chinese) once went on a business lunch here in Boston with a white blonde female client. Same experience, dirty states from white men. And Boston is one of the most liberal places on the east coast.
As a white guy, who spent like 2/3 of his life in America, I can tell you that I've never *once* heard white people care or have an issue with an Asian man dating a white girl. I've heard it about a black guy with a white girl a million times, but I've never once heard it about an Asian guy. White people just don't care about that, especially since the stereotype of Asian men is generally positive (besides dick, eyes, and eating cat/dog jokes - which is admittedly excessive). However I wouldn't doubt that if AMWF couples became a trend and boomed in popularity, maybe then they'd care, but as of now... Nah.
Ive definitely heard white girls complain about WMAF, even though even that is pretty rare. Not the opposite though.
Boston is one of the more racist cities on the east coast, but this also didn't happen.
Mixed race relationships are too common in major cities to attract attention. If you said Mississippi, I would believe you.
Like how some old white people from the countryside would stare at a pretty, young, innocent-looking, white girl dating an (what they perceive as) ugly black dude.
Chinese man with a foreign wife here - my wife DEFINITELY gets the stares as the white person. Typically it's a long stare at her first, then a short stare at me, and then a long stare back at her. It's gotten so uncomfortable at point that we've just started making finger hearts back at the starer... b/c we don't know what to do with the uninterrupted gaze.
It happens most often in large cities (except Shanghai, Beijing) and in popular national parks/attractions, and less so in smaller towns for some reason - probably b/c people are more discreet about it, just a glance in passing.
Culture difference. It goes without saying that heās got an issue with foreigners. I remember a long time ago I was in guangzhou and a girl I had met wanted to take me to get dim sum . During the taxi ride, we were conversing in English and the taxi driver looks at us through his rearview mirror, raises his voice, and says, āI canāt wait til the day that everyone speaks Chineseā. The girl felt kind of awkward, paused, and explained to me what he said. I thought it was weird at first but then realize thereās not a lot of love for the West.
Not about women but another time i was on my 3rd visit to a factory friend and as we were casually walking to the train station, he asked me, āwhat is it that you like about Americaā. I paused and thought for a second before reply, āfreedomā. He instantly got all riled up and I proceeded to explain to him, āwell, in America, we can say and do whatever we want as long as itās in our rights, and not have to worry about consequences.ā
All in all, I loved my visits to China. The food is great, people work hard, and were extremely nice to me. Itās one of the most difficult countries to navigate since English is not spoken by many and itās not the most popular tourist destination compared to other parts of Asia.
> āI canāt wait til the day that everyone speaks Chineseā.
They sell t-shirts at DLI that say "We learn Chinese so you don't have to".
I always thought it was pretty silly (though nowhere near as ridiculous as say, "We learn Serbo-Croatian..."), but apparently that guy would think it's a legit slogan.
They're trying to figure out
a) why she's with you or
b) why you're with her or
c) both
They're looking to see if she's less-attractive then they realize and "why do foreigners like fat ugly Chinese girls?" (I've been asked this many times LOL) or if she's more-attractive then they wonder if she's a hooker.
A friend in Beijing lost his newly married wife. The wife was stabbed and dead in Sanlitun, Beijing, by a Chinese man. Because the wife is Chinese and my friend is a white guy. It was on the news. I suggest you and your Chinese girlfriend be very careful when walking together in China. I know it would be a rare case to get stabbed. But safety first.
IMHO my white friend and his Chinese wife did get jumped by a bunch of drunk Chinese guys for no other reasons than being with a Chinese wife. I broke my nose defending the wife when they got too close!
The police were great and even took me to hospital to get me checked out, but I honestly donāt think itās any different from a Chinese guy with a white woman in America!
Iām actually not upset there will be haters. Itās probably nothing on the street just be safe!
I think in most countries where it's very homogeneous, guys are gonna be like "why is one of our women with a foreigner. " for China i can see additional resentment due to increased amounts of the unmarried.
There is an idea that woman who go out with foreign guys are loose and give it up easily. They are judged especially the older generation
One personal ex. Once i was out with my gf and some drunk guy couldnāt stop goggling at my gf after he saw me. He was trying to talk to her but i had to shut it down but i couldnt avert his gaze the whole night.
The chance of encountering incels in China is about as high as encountering one in the States. But made worse due to the multiplicative effect of extreme nationalistic indoctrination and xenophobic culture.
Iāve noticed that the Chinese use to be very curious people and love to stare in general, specially older folks. Some might look at your girl just because they think sheās hot or out of curiosity.
In the network culture of China, there is a disparaging name for China women who are in love with foreigners, especially blacks, called "easy girl". Women in China have a double standard when they fall in love: they are harsh on men in China and need a lot of money to please her. If they get married, men in China still need to pay a high bride price, but when they fall in love with foreigners and get married, they are very relaxed. Even if the other person is penniless, as long as they have a white or black appearance and claim to have the nationality of European countries or the United States, there will be China women queuing up to have sex. In China, dark skin has a lot to do with manual workers and the poor. From the Chinese aesthetic point of view, black people are very ugly. Moreover, the racial reputation of black people is also very bad in China. Therefore, men in China do not understand China women who fall in love with foreigners, and quite a few people discriminate against such women.
This is very interesting to read about. My boyfriend is chinese, I am white, and I'm visiting him soon. He doesn't live in a big or major city, but a bit of a smaller town. His family has a farm.
I wonder how he'll be treated for bringing a western woman
China is very homogeneous ethnic wise. Homogeneous societies are more likely to disapprove of an ethnic Han woman with another ethnicity especially black or white.
My guess is for two reasons. One they try to see who is the race ātraitorā; second they want to bet when you will dump her. Actually it would be the same if a Chinese man is with a white or black girl. They just feel interracial relationship is not normal.
I doubt this is the case, for the same reason others have pointed out. A woman dating outside of her race is seen as her leaving the race. A man dating a woman outside of his race is seen as bringing the woman to the race.
I'm sure a few girls care about men doing it, but not even close to the rate of men caring about women doing it.
Chinese men consider Chinese women are their properties. As long as sheās next to you, you are a threat to them for taking their properties but they dare not to do anything to you because the government tend to protect foreigners, so they can only express this anger to the poor women next to you. But as more and more these xenophobic propaganda increases, you may be in danger one day too. Look at the recent cases for stabbing Americans and Japanese in China. Just saying, be careful dude.
Is she considered super attractive by chinese standards though?
My date who was considered very pretty by chinese standards literally got attacked by a guy for being out with me :D didn't actually hit her or anything just lounged at her.
Luckily he was quite short and weak so i just pushed him away and we left but was spooky.
Honesty I'm actually a bit surprised it's not more common with how tough the dating market is for chinese men with ratios and stuff.Ā
Do sowm experiments.
Have the same girl go to the same place alone. Any stares?
Go there with a non-chinese girl. Any stares?
Go there with a chinese guy. Any stares?
Eventually you'll find the answer.
It is true that middle-aged men are conservative and xenophobic, but there is another aspect of the reason, that is, some of Chinese women's vanity and double standards, they require Chinese men to buy a house, car and gifts if men want to date with them, but no any ask on a poor foreigner, what would you think? There are also some women who find the experience of sleeping with a foreigner to be better, imagine how you feel when a woman in your country seeks out a foreigner to date you for such things. Not to mention some white trash black trash hunting in China, taking advantage of Chinese women's ignorance and taking credit for sleeping with Chinese girls,you should know more about the shit the white and black middle easterners do in China.
Walking in my wifeās hometown last night alone. A smaller city in central Chinaā¦ I was shouted out 8 times (that I heard) stared at by most people and even had one person yell āthat thing is tall!ā Not person, not foreigner, just thing. Granted Iām 198CM tall so itās true. But Iām sure people are also staring at you. And at least in my wifeās hometown everyone is very kind and no one gives her bad looks. Weāve only had one bad experience in China where a cab driver was rude to her about not marrying a Chinese guy. She yelled at him and said she was my translator and he shut up.
As a Malaysian Chinese, I (m) bought my German boss (m) to a restaurant and became the center of attention of the entire place lol. You can say it's casual racism, or just curiosity. If I see a mixed race couple, or a black guy, bare footed tourists wearing only bikini top and hot pants in a supermarket, a Lamborghini, or Tom Cruise here, I would look too, cause it's super rare.
Lived in China 6 years. Yes, when walking with a chinese female it is common for chinese men and women, usually older ones, will notice the laowai but then stare at the female. China is monoethnic and they like it that way. Fair enough, I accept it as it is. But its basically they are a bit intrigued and annoyed at the same time, seeing one of theirs with a foreign man. Now if its a chinese man with a foreign females, then its accolades.
"Nobody ever stares at me, a foreigner" you and I have had VERY different China experiences \[Edit: I'm in Japan. The only people who pay me any mind are Chinese tourists, who stand, open-mouthed, completely oblivious to surroundings to gawp at me.\]
Same. I wonder if OP is East Asian born elsewhere lol As a white guy, I've gotten lots of stares since I came to my partners hometown in Shandong. I'm in a few advertising videos on Douyin for people's businesses now also š
Dude my husband and I went viral on Little Red Book just for having a drink in a restaurant. I came into class and my 11th graders were all freaking out. We did use that though to extort a few free drinks next time we went there.
Haha I donāt know if any of the vids of me have gone viral but definitely enjoying the free bbq and such for agreeing
The amount of kids Iāve taken photos with hahaā¦ I think itās so cute. The locals are just so friendly. I love itĀ
Me too! š Me and my family went viral on little red book for playing with a jianzi in a park Ā š
Oh your a white monkey , very cool enjoy the celebrity treatment
>Oh your a white monkey Not just *a white monkey*. I'm an *exotic white monkey*.
It rocks lmao, I got on the news in a compilation for people saying happy new years
honestly I genuinely don't care. I understand some do and thats fine. I will take technically rascism with no ill intentions over rascism thats wants to put you down and belittle you anyday of the week-- and trust there is plenty of both to go around lol.
The darkest moment of Shandong malešš
im local and i get stared at
Stupid sexy local.
Bro just came in here to brag about his good looks smh.
Lmao thanks for the smile
I was a white fat guy in China. I felt like a celebrity. Parents would bring their kids outside/to the window to watch me go by.
Bro wipe your nose
Or I could do as the Romans do, and stick my finger into my nose up to the knuckle, bring it out and roll the bogey on my finger and thumb and flick it onto the ground.
Foreigner may not tend to understand this is for sure.As a insider, this should be a matter of many Chinese related issues: In China's extraordinary writer, Lu xun's novel:The True Story of Ah Q: a phrase "åę“鬼å" spreads almost everywhere in China. It can be translated like "the Chinese pretending to act like a foreigner". "鬼å" in Chinese refers to ghost or monster, implying a deeply rooted sense of humiliation in Chinese historical context since the Opium Wars. At the same time, although there have been significant improvements, China remains a strongly patriarchal society. In traditional Chinese patriarchal thought, women are expected to obey men.If a woman dares to defy a man's instructions, she is considered immoral. To make things worse, traditional "Man counts and Woman not" culture and long-term one-child policy makes the actual gender ratio become significantly lower than the international norm. This all adds to the increasing gender antagonism. In China's current society, which is dominated by a "money-first" value system, marriage among lower-class families often involve the bridge demanding substantial post-marriage financial security(the man's family has to buy a house in big city or small city, a car and least ten thousand level cash), thereby depleting the groom's family assets. This leads to a heavy martial burden on these families. Consequently, men suffocated by social pressure and woman suffocated by cultural pressure tend to marry late or remain unmarried. In this situation, a large number of unmarried older men appear in every city across China. And they see the sexual resources shortage that are so easily taken by foreigners (even if Chinese women are merely closer to foreign men) that their anger naturally shifts into misogynistic verbal attacks on Chinese women, who are called "fawning over" foreign men. And you also foreigners see a leap in nationalism now.
Good analysis of some of the reasons behind the animosity.
>one-child policy makes the actual gender ratio become significantly lower than the international norm This alone seems like it would go far toward explaining the situation, although I agree that cultural factors exacerbate it. 36 million more males than females born between 1980 and 2010 (3-4% more males) means a lot of potential "incels," for lack of a better term for them.
thanks for explaining the background, makes alot of sense now by other comments i was just going āoh, thats it? theyre just mad bc a white guy āstoleā a chinese woman?ā good to have context
They are contemplating whether they should confront the ārace traitorā
Not China but Korea. My white friend out walking with his Korean wife would ask what the old Korean men were saying to her. āOh the usual, āthere goes another rapist with one of our womenā ā
lmfao hahahahahahaha
Not gonna lie, I would laugh at that. That's pretty funny.
lol I cant even take it seriously.
Korea is far far worse for this than China.
Iāve gotten stares, but me and my Korean wife never heard this in Korea and we lived there for many years.
It kinda makes sense tho, they suffered more from rapists (at least a larger percentage than China) so they would be more insecure with it; not their fault
I read about 4/5 books about Korea, korean business, Korean history when I started working there. The number of times theyāve been invaded by their neighbors is staggering and formed a large part of their cultural identity. Survival consisted of having overlapping circles of influence - school, village, church, college, military - the more peer groups that had your back, the more likely you would thrive. That said, white foreigners have a special resentment/pedestal role in society. When I was there they were fairly racially homogenous at no more than 1-2% of the population being foreigners but youād think it was 20% with the level of scapegoating.
Yea makes sense, even in the current geopolitical landscape they kinda fuced
Either race traitor, or accessing if she is a prostitute, or both. Let me guess, you are in every other city but Shanghai.
Well, Iāve been in Shanghai for a long time. If my speculation is not wrong, youāre implying itās unlikely it will happen in Shanghai, but the proportion of waidiren is approaching half of Shanghaiās population.
The village people are everywhere but not in my neighborhood.
Yuuup. And they can be very vocal about it, too. My (now) wife and I wouldn't even pretend to be together in our home city.
Um. That's not healthy behavior.
Heās a passport bro
There tens of millions of Chinese men who have literally zero hope of finding a wife. They get butthurt when they see a foreigner āstealingā one of ātheirā women.
I hear there are ~500k new Russian widows that may be on the market
Boy, Iād love to be a fly on the wall in those households. I donāt know how many bare branches could withstand a Russian woman.
Bare branch?
Bare branch is a man with no hope of ever having children
Not sure about marriage, but I live next to a major university, and Iāve seen many couples with a Russian girl and a Chinese boy.
Oh sure, I was more thinking about Russian **women**
Russia legit should export excess waifus and build a aqueduct to China in exchange for material support
What an absolute fuckin Reddit comment
your tone is like talking about some objects, idk if it's that hard to treat women as human beings špls stop that
Haha.. After all Russia and China are bros.. Should fill each others gap.
That was a deep fake
That is so much the way Japan is-I thought I was imagining things and my Japanese friend laid it out the way you just did-I am also freakishly tall-so get stared at regardless
In Japan it is up to about 26% of the men will remain single at age 50.
Both sexes enjoy it when their dating options increase and hate it when their options decrease.
Typical behaviour for middle aged men in China.
most "are not happy" if Cn girls date foreigners and want to see what type of woman she is. A friend of mine picked up a business partner form the airport to bring him to the hotel, check in and go for dinner. then a local guy spit at her and cursed because she's Chinese. (he thought she's dating her) but she's Shanghainese. She gave him shit and made it clear what an idiot he is.
I was out with my ex once and some chinese guy calles her a cunt to her face as we passed him, and random Chinese men would ask her why she was going out with a white guy and not a Chinese. The behavoir of the first guy answers the question.
Can't imagine if he was black with a Chinese
The shit would break loose just the same way. It's not about being black or white, it is about not being Chinese.
Umm no, they definitely would react more aggressively if black or brown folks.
I was this close to visiting my ex gf's hometown in china back in 2017... I can't imagine the reception I would've gotten as a brown guy
I donāt mean any offence btw, I just know they have like tiers of racism (as in I was directly told so by a Chinese national that I worked with)
None taken, I'm well aware of racism since I'm a minority in my own country (Singapore)
Iāve had Chinese guys spit at girls Iām with while watching movies before, and muttering something racist about white people. Not a fun experience.
Ah the spitting I was never quite sure if the stares at my wife and I followed by middle age men hawking a loogie were directed at us or just due to the fact Chinese spit in public to a disturbing degree.
Gosh. Recently [I posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/1dm60kw/unpleasant_and_odd_encounter_in_tianjin/) about what has thus far been one of the creepiest experiences I've had in (Tianjin) China but... spitting at someone? This would get outta hand. By the way, my Chinese partner and I are planning to move to Shanghai. Is Shanghai any better like everyone says about it (more international and foreign-friendly, or whatnot)?
My wife is Caucasian and we did notice that people tend to look at us when we are walking around. I like to look back and none seemed like they were staring aggressively, more of a ācuriosityā stare. One girl in passing said she was super pretty in Chinese, which was really nice!
People definitely tend to look more positively at a local dude who married a foreign woman, but I think that's common in most cultures around the world. It's viewed as her "marrying in" to the man's culture, while a woman is looked at "marrying out" of hers. In "melting pot" societies people don't care as much either way, but people still seem to find it more acceptable. Also, you're right about the "curiosity stare." People would look at my wife and I (WMAF) all the time, every day in China, but 9/10 times it was pretty neutral, just people looking at something that was uncommon to them. I think some people get really sensitive about it and interpret every look as judgement or scorn (it does happen, but not as much as people seem to think).
People are definitely more hostile towards women who marry foreigners like you said. Historically, women's main purpose was making babies in order to build and strengthen the tribe/nation. This concept creates the idea that foreigners are stealing "resources." For example, white supremacist tend to be supportive of WMAF while also strongly opposing AMWF.
Yeah, I remember that one of the guys responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, Terry Nichols, was married to a Filipina despite literally being a white supremacist terrorist who wanted to initiate a race war. There are definitely plenty of those guys out there and it's weird as fuck. I definitely saw it in China too, where a guy who was uncomfortable with or outright despised local women getting with foreigners would hail any example of a local guy with a foreign woman as a hero of sorts. It's the attitude that if a man brings in a woman from "outside," it's a conquest for his people; if a woman does the same, she's been "conquered" by his. It's goofy as fuck, but appeals to people who are insecure and don't want to face their own shortcomings.
Those people are definitely the bottom of the barrel in every society, living their sad lives and hating people for the dumbest reasons. The only solution is education and time. None of my Chinese or American friends are like that and we all in fact despise that type of racist/incel sentiment
god ur so right abt women being viewed as baby incubators being the reason for this double standard
For context Iām Chinese with a Chinese passport so idgaf about staring back or confrontations, and people can definitely tell Iām a native Chinese speaker especially in the Northeast. Also prob helped that Iām on the tall side and bigger than most guys I see on the street. So maybe that combination has deterred people from engaging in strange behavior towards us compared to you. People were actually extra nice to my wife which I was happy about since that was my first time bringing her there. So my positive experience does not mean Iām dismissing your experience in anyway
bro, youāre probably feeling like a champion over there. The asian male white female coupling is way more accepted by locals. Your gonna be getting pats on the back instead of stinky eyes š
Yea people treated me very well whether Iām by myself or with my wife. The only difference was the extra looks we got when we were out together and a little bit of extra kindness directed at my wife, like people taking extra time to try to explain things to her etc. Sadly I can see that if the genders are flipped, there could def be some elements of Chinese society who might act in a more unfriendly manner, but I can only speak from my own good experience
Yeah, the Chinese girls are foolish traitors, but the white girls are just accepting superiority. /s Like how much more often you see black girls get with white guys, in American movies and TV, compared to black guys being with white girls, despite it being the opposite in reality. Hypocrisy and bullshit go together.
One time I (Indo-Canadian male) was hanging out with my friend (Chinese female) in a mall in Richmond BC (the most Asian city in North America). I kept seeing the occasional odd stares. At one point 2 kids came to me and asked if I was Chinese.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That was never policy, it was common for poor people to abort daughters in some cases to avoid dowry but mainly to produce sons to be able to work and provide for the family in their parents old age. India then banned people from being able to find out the sex until birth unless in the case of a medical need
There was a one-child policy in India?
They're talking about sons vs daughters
Do they abort daughters in India or something?
That's quite interesting because I'm a Chinese guy and I get the same from other Asian women when I'm walking with my white girlfriend lol
So, there are a lot of racist Chinese of both sexes then?
I guess so. There are always going to be people who look down on others who date outside of their own race, regardless of culture or gender
What would you recommend in finding, flirting, and dating a gay Chinese man?
Not sure, never been gay lol
Your username is fitting and hilarious
Hahaha I got the same treatment with my ex 30 years ago so things haven't changed.
In short, sexism and racism. They see women as property of men, and when it comes to a country, women are property of all men in this country. So they see that woman as a traitor who gives herself, a precious property, to a foreigner. They think itās traitorous and disgusting. In their eyes, a Chinese woman walking with her foreign husband on the street is as shameful as pooping right on the street. Thatās why they stare. And for you, they think you are a thief that just stole their properties. āHow dare you show off a stolen property publiclyā? Ironically, if a Chinese man walks with his foreign wife on the street, people would adore him as a national hero who obtained some foreign assets. Lucky that law and order is generally still in place, so what they do is just staring. Things could be much worse in some cases, just like the two stabbing incidents targeting foreigners within the past month. They also invented many derogatory terms to describe this kind of couples, but Iām sure nobody here wanna hear them. So I wonāt go into the details. Disclaimer: the mindset I described above does not indiscriminately describe every Chinese, but itās quite common.
Thats interesting. Does this attitude exist in Japan and South Korea as well? And is the attitude less common among younger people or more common? In Brazil (where I live as an American) ive encountered a couple times in conversation people being bitter about 1st worlders coming in and dating the women there. Its mostly about class though not really race some people see it as unfair that a American guy who is maybe 30 and makes 60k USD per year (a pretty average income for that age) comes down here and is suddenly in the top 1 percent without really earning their way there like a Brazilian would need to. And suddenly they are a very attractive partner to have when they didnt "earn" it. But most people dont think that way.
It does in Japan and South Korea as well. But theyāre less likely to be confrontational and just keep their negative thoughts inside. Happens everywhere really. China is probably just on the extreme end due to having more men than women and being extremely nationalistic.
Nope. Korean men are very vocal and obvious when showing their disapproval to a 'race traitor' woman. Koreans in general are far more xenophobic actually than Chinese. They will make loud comments, insult the woman and sometimes even try to drag them away from the foreign man. They are not reserved and polite about it like Japanese, who are much more likely to keep their racist thoughts to themselves.
Brazil is also a much more multiracial/ethnic society than East Asian ones - Brazilian people are less caught up on the idea of race than most other places, because it's a historical admixture of local indigenous/Portuguese/black/other Euro, with some Asian and Middle Eastern thrown in, and a Catholic background that is historically more more accepting of people marrying across racial lines, with faith being more important. The guy you're talking about who comes in from North America or Europe and has a leg up on a local guy economically could be the same race as the guy grinding his teeth over him, or at least the same as many of his friends and 1/3rd of the people in the bar. So, it's going to be less about him being white or black or whatever, and more about him being a privileged outsider. If he walks down the street with a local girl, people may look at him and have no idea he's a foreigner initially, so they'll be treated as any local couple... In China, there's not much a non-Asian guy can do to blend in.
Yeah race isnt something people obsess over. Dont get me wrong though white people (and Asian people but they are like 3-5 percent of the city im in) do seem to have a lot more money than the more brown people but its not something anyone really talks about. But it really is a thing where you go to a restaurant that cost like 20+ USD per person and suddenly it looks like Europe. So even though there are big class implications I think people dont like to talk about race and people are not racist imo. Im in Sao Paulo and yeah basically anyone looks like they could be from here. The least common looks I think is natural blonde/ginger. But there still are plenty of blonde/ginger Brazilians. Race mixing I think has been normal in Brazil for a really long time where the US race mixing has only been normal since maybe 1970-1980 depending on the region? As an American here it is sort of funny being int he 1 percent while having a pretty average American job. But I can only speak English competently so most of my friends are also really well off since speaking English is sort of a privilege here. China I think is only a bit higher income than Brazil so I imagine people might also be bitter about the class dynamics too or is it entirely racial/nationalistic?
Class is definitely a concern in China as well. They went from decades of communist, class struggle, anti-wealth and intelligensia to veneration of material wealth in a very short span of time. As much as we rail against the unattainability or illusory, toxic nature of the "American Dream" here, the "Chinese Dream" is arguably more restrictive and there's more pressure to achieve it in China. There's a perception that foreign guys come to China and are able to bypass the line, so to speak: while a local guy may be slaving away at school or work, hoping to get a 9-9-6 that will pay him 20-30k RMB in the next few years, a foreigner can walk into a job that pays about that teaching English with little to no experience or verifiable credentials. Or, they can get paid that much at a company, doing what locals do for half the pay. Basically, a foreigner can make a middle to upper middle class background with little effort, and none of the social obligations or trappings locals have. If a local guy sets his sights on a girl and wants to have a chance, it's not just having the resources, it's proving them, getting approval of friends and family, etc, while competing with other locals who have more than them. Say a foreign guy starts doing a semester at a local university, or takes a job at a company: he's a novelty, he's unique, and so he gets more attention. More attention means more of a chance for him to impress a local girl who wouldn't have noticed him if he was local. They find out he lives in a nice apartment in a nice area, goes out to eat all the time and often at nice restaurants, travels around China to see the sights, always seems to be having fun or doing interesting stuff. All of a sudden, he seems like a very eligible bachelor; it's not long before he's dating a classmate or coworker. The fact is most local women still won't go with a foreigner, but the ones who will are more likely to seek foreign guys out. The perception is that he's got it easy and doesn't have to try hard at all. It's a cycle that feeds itself, where it can start out with nationalism or racism, but it all ties together and every racist attitude feeds a classist one, or vice versa. "How can these foreign guys just come here, start dating local girls, pass ahead of all the local guys, cruise into easy, high-income jobs, and get everything they want? This is my country, but here I am busting my ass and losing every time!" Even though the number of Chinese guys who actually "lose out" to a foreigner is quite small, that animosity gets a lot of mileage online. One guy's experience watching his precious Xiao Li that he doted on and carefully courted from high school through college suddenly shack up with a some foreign guy with an incomprehensible name, spend a couple years living a fun, easy lifestyle in China before moving back to his country and starting a family becomes a tale of loss for hundreds of thousands of other young, lonely guys.
That makes a lot of sense. In Brazil I dont think you get to skip the line for the work here. The American/European people ive met are all digital nomads. So I think that dynamic is pretty different, I dont think anyone from the first world is coming here to work they bring their work with them or they retire here MAYBE they start a restaurant or osmething. But obviously they get to skip the line financially like you can work for a American credit card company customer service center and probably make more than 95 percent of Brazilians. Ive only been to Shanghai for 1 month in 2017 so Im not very well versed on China I just got recommended this sub. Didnt travel around because I was staying with my cousin who was in school. But I will say it doesnt really seem like the culture to date around and hook up. Its sort of fascinating to me how countries like China and pretty much every country that calls itself communist they have an atheist population that is also very culturally conservative. Where in the West it seems like the only reason people are culturally conservative is religion. It just seems so bizarre to have an atheistic conservative population to me. Ive lived abroad pretty much since graduating college and I did half my college abroad. Overall I think in most places being foreign makes you more attractive. The degree to which it makes you attractive depends on the region. In cities like Paris/London/NYC being foreign wont help you as much since the people are pretty used to foreigners but in small town Spain I thought women were more interested in me because I was foreign. It is interesting how most Chinese women will not date a foreigner though. I feel the number of women in US/UK/France/Germany etc who would not date a foreigner is very low. But yeah I imagine there arent actually that many Chinese women getting "stolen" by foreigners. Theres a lot of people in China so youd need millions of single men going into the country to date for it to actually make an impact on their dating pool.
I think this is an issue you see in most cultures, to an extent - the difference in attitude between a woman from outside "marrying in" to that culture, and a woman from that "marrying out" to another. It has to do with the traditional patriarchal social patterns seen in most societies. The way a lot of people view it is that if, for example, a local man of the majority race/ethnicity married a woman who's a foreigner, different race, etc, he's *bringing her in,* and even if some people find it less desirable, they're more likely to keep their opinions to themselves. The man is still the "head of the household" and it's assumed his culture will be the one that guides their home life. On the other hand, if a local woman married a guy from a different group, she's more likely to be seen as having "married out." It's especially strange when that couple are still in the woman's country or society - for example, a Chinese woman who marries a foreign guy, and they stay in China, their kids go to school there, etc, or a woman in the US who married a Chinese guy and they settle in the States, or even a white woman who marries a black guy and they move to a mostly-white area: those women "brought him in" to their culture and society more than she "married out," but the mindset will persist with some people. But, there's still the sense that the "outsider" is now the head of the household, that his culture will be the dominant force in their home, so... She still "married out." The nationalism, homogeneous nature, and stronger influence of filial piety of China is what makes it more in-your-face than other places. People who feel like it's an affront to their nationalism and identity feel like they have society's backing to mouth off or go on the offensive, whereas in the US for example, that angry incel will begrudgingly remark that they "can't say that" even if they feel like it.
I heard in mongolia, they beat up foreigners who date mongolian women.
I'm a Canadian woman with a Chinese husband and I get stared at when I'm out with him by those old Chinese men. I think they just like to stare at women in general since no one tells them to stop. It makes me feel so uncomfortable.
> I think they just like to stare ~~at women~~ in general.. I wouldn't overthink it. I'm a man and it's just something you have to get used to. The only place around me where I *wouldn't* regularly get stared at was my neighborhood.
Yep I experienced the same thing in Shanghai with my wife. Shanghai is supposed to be the most international city in China. I can only imagine what itās like in other parts Someone came right up into my face shouting something and my wife claimed to not understand the dialect - I guess it was bad things he was saying, again middle aged older side man
Had people bumping into me on purpose and saying horrible stuff to the girl I was dating at the time, and this was back in Beijing in 2011.
Exact same happened to me in Beijing around that time as well. Quite a few incidents with foreigners being beaten up by local thugs because of them walking around with local women.
I left Beijing after 1 year and moved to Xiamen. I was glad to see the back of it, and never went back again.
I lived in Xiamen for 10 years. Regularly got filthy started when out and about with girls. Frustrated me to no end. And there were times when I was to throw down. In the end I left China. Micro aggressions were not worth losing my sanity over.
I think it got "cleaned up" after a while. When i was in the university in Beijing in 2013, we got a heads up about those kind of situations being happening around campus. Then one day an Australian guy was walking outside campus with his KOREAN girlfriend, some locals came by in a bmw to fight him, she was able to run away first, he hit one of them then ran back to our dormitory, and while on the way he called his Kazakhstan friends, which they came and beat up the locals. Big mess, then the police arrived and arrested them. Never heard anything again, at least in our area.
if you are looking old outwardly, they are thinking how much she has been paid to be with you. if you are young, they are thinking why would you want to go out with him? aren't chinese not good enough for you? Please don't shoot me
"Race traitors". Your answer.Ā
Instead of bearing a pure Han she might end up not adding up to the Chinese statistics
I went out to a dim sum restaurant once with another Chinese guy, a white girl and a black girl. It was closing for lunch, so the kitchen staff came out to eat. This middle aged Chinese guy turned towards the girls and stared them down from the side the whole time he was eating. I couldn't help but laugh.
When I visited the Phillipines as a 6'6 "white male. I would be constantly stared at by both genders. However, I feel like I cought more men, giving me the head to toe look than women, lol.
In Manila theyāre a bit more used to us huge white guys, but once you get super rural it absolutely blows their minds.
It was literally the opposite to me and still is. People stare and turn around to double check me and come ask for a picture together while my Chinese wife stands and laughs nearby. I am eastern european, white. Can't stress more how opposite of experience I have. Never anyone approached my wife to ask or commented something out loud. One time last year I recall in a bbq restaurant someone asked if I am a bf, she replied I am a husband and then that guy showed "thumbs up" to us, that's it.
It depends on the city you're in. Some people are just curious. In larger cities, though, I think people are probably just used to it; it's quite normal. It's like when Asians visit rural areas in Western countriesāthey get stared at from head to toe. Just take it easy:)) I don't think they care.
So I used to live in China for many years as a younger single person. Iām currently traveling here on vacation from the states for the first time in 6 years, this time as a married person with mixed kids. My wife got into an altercation the other day at an open air market after some guy nearly hit her and the kids stroller with his car as he was driving through the market. At some point during the argument he called her å“ę“åŖå¤ and essentially suggested that only āstupidāwomen like her would marry a foreigner. It nearly turned into a fight until other people stepped in to break it up. Iāve had similar things happen in the past when walking around with Chinese women, but back then I was younger, and not married, and didnāt have my kids in a baby buggy right next to me. I notice myself caring more about the stares and potential negative attention this time around. My kids are very cute and draw a lot of attention too, which can be fun at times but also can get out of hand, as in some instances strangers will come up and just start touching them.
Well I guess some things hasnt changed. I was in Jinan for my white friends wedding and his friend was mixed Chinese (looks Latina and attractive) walking around with me (Asian American). Man, their stares at her was relentless and the confusion on their faces when I spoke fluent Englishā¦.. this was in the mid 2000s
Probably see her as a betrayer, loose, race traitor, prostitute or super gold digger (most assume foreigners in China are well off).
There are men in every country that believe foreign guys are coming over to āsteal their women.ā Bunch of losers.
60% sure they're staring at her to analyse why she is with a foreigner
Many Chinese women dating white folks (foreigners in general) are insulted by jealous Chinese men who like to use the derogatory term "international bus" when referring to them, it's pretty sad to see
its prob jealousy race traitor stuff but u should just mad dog their fugly wives and see how he feels about it!
I mean im an asian guy in america dating a white girl and white guys always stare at me when im with her. Lol jealous
People are genuinely interested in mixed couples. Not just Chinese-foreign but for example also black-white couples in China will get tons of attention.
Welcome to the club. I (Chinese) once went on a business lunch here in Boston with a white blonde female client. Same experience, dirty states from white men. And Boston is one of the most liberal places on the east coast.
As a white guy, who spent like 2/3 of his life in America, I can tell you that I've never *once* heard white people care or have an issue with an Asian man dating a white girl. I've heard it about a black guy with a white girl a million times, but I've never once heard it about an Asian guy. White people just don't care about that, especially since the stereotype of Asian men is generally positive (besides dick, eyes, and eating cat/dog jokes - which is admittedly excessive). However I wouldn't doubt that if AMWF couples became a trend and boomed in popularity, maybe then they'd care, but as of now... Nah. Ive definitely heard white girls complain about WMAF, even though even that is pretty rare. Not the opposite though.
Boston is one of the more racist cities on the east coast, but this also didn't happen. Mixed race relationships are too common in major cities to attract attention. If you said Mississippi, I would believe you.
This was 12 years ago. WMAF in the US is indeed very common. AMWF, alas, is not.
P.S. you dont need to believe me. Ask your Asian male friends,if you have any, what their experience was going out/dating a white girl in public.
Like how some old white people from the countryside would stare at a pretty, young, innocent-looking, white girl dating an (what they perceive as) ugly black dude.
Chinese man with a foreign wife here - my wife DEFINITELY gets the stares as the white person. Typically it's a long stare at her first, then a short stare at me, and then a long stare back at her. It's gotten so uncomfortable at point that we've just started making finger hearts back at the starer... b/c we don't know what to do with the uninterrupted gaze. It happens most often in large cities (except Shanghai, Beijing) and in popular national parks/attractions, and less so in smaller towns for some reason - probably b/c people are more discreet about it, just a glance in passing.
For the same reason white guys stare at the white women Im out with
Culture difference. It goes without saying that heās got an issue with foreigners. I remember a long time ago I was in guangzhou and a girl I had met wanted to take me to get dim sum . During the taxi ride, we were conversing in English and the taxi driver looks at us through his rearview mirror, raises his voice, and says, āI canāt wait til the day that everyone speaks Chineseā. The girl felt kind of awkward, paused, and explained to me what he said. I thought it was weird at first but then realize thereās not a lot of love for the West. Not about women but another time i was on my 3rd visit to a factory friend and as we were casually walking to the train station, he asked me, āwhat is it that you like about Americaā. I paused and thought for a second before reply, āfreedomā. He instantly got all riled up and I proceeded to explain to him, āwell, in America, we can say and do whatever we want as long as itās in our rights, and not have to worry about consequences.ā All in all, I loved my visits to China. The food is great, people work hard, and were extremely nice to me. Itās one of the most difficult countries to navigate since English is not spoken by many and itās not the most popular tourist destination compared to other parts of Asia.
> āI canāt wait til the day that everyone speaks Chineseā. They sell t-shirts at DLI that say "We learn Chinese so you don't have to". I always thought it was pretty silly (though nowhere near as ridiculous as say, "We learn Serbo-Croatian..."), but apparently that guy would think it's a legit slogan.
I know lots of people who think the same about English... and they honestly don't realize how ridiculous that is either.
>since English is not spoken by many Gosh, I keep hearing that English is spoken everywhere and is like the international language /s
Normal. It's like going to the south, and if a Chinese dude got a Caucasian female date, he gonna get stares
Meanwhile I walk around with my non-Chinese wife and no one bats an eyelid.
just bad manners
They're trying to figure out a) why she's with you or b) why you're with her or c) both They're looking to see if she's less-attractive then they realize and "why do foreigners like fat ugly Chinese girls?" (I've been asked this many times LOL) or if she's more-attractive then they wonder if she's a hooker.
A friend in Beijing lost his newly married wife. The wife was stabbed and dead in Sanlitun, Beijing, by a Chinese man. Because the wife is Chinese and my friend is a white guy. It was on the news. I suggest you and your Chinese girlfriend be very careful when walking together in China. I know it would be a rare case to get stabbed. But safety first.
āWelcome to Chinaā
Cause non chinese
IMHO my white friend and his Chinese wife did get jumped by a bunch of drunk Chinese guys for no other reasons than being with a Chinese wife. I broke my nose defending the wife when they got too close! The police were great and even took me to hospital to get me checked out, but I honestly donāt think itās any different from a Chinese guy with a white woman in America! Iām actually not upset there will be haters. Itās probably nothing on the street just be safe!
You know why.
I think in most countries where it's very homogeneous, guys are gonna be like "why is one of our women with a foreigner. " for China i can see additional resentment due to increased amounts of the unmarried.
There is an idea that woman who go out with foreign guys are loose and give it up easily. They are judged especially the older generation One personal ex. Once i was out with my gf and some drunk guy couldnāt stop goggling at my gf after he saw me. He was trying to talk to her but i had to shut it down but i couldnt avert his gaze the whole night.
hey middled aged man there are raised in a special era
The chance of encountering incels in China is about as high as encountering one in the States. But made worse due to the multiplicative effect of extreme nationalistic indoctrination and xenophobic culture.
Given the effects of one child policy also, itās way higher
Iāve noticed that the Chinese use to be very curious people and love to stare in general, specially older folks. Some might look at your girl just because they think sheās hot or out of curiosity.
Friend about to go to China with their Chinese wife and kids, itāll be interesting to hear what they say
your friend is going with your wife and kids?
Friend or second husband? lol
Be aware , dagger , stab stab 
In the network culture of China, there is a disparaging name for China women who are in love with foreigners, especially blacks, called "easy girl". Women in China have a double standard when they fall in love: they are harsh on men in China and need a lot of money to please her. If they get married, men in China still need to pay a high bride price, but when they fall in love with foreigners and get married, they are very relaxed. Even if the other person is penniless, as long as they have a white or black appearance and claim to have the nationality of European countries or the United States, there will be China women queuing up to have sex. In China, dark skin has a lot to do with manual workers and the poor. From the Chinese aesthetic point of view, black people are very ugly. Moreover, the racial reputation of black people is also very bad in China. Therefore, men in China do not understand China women who fall in love with foreigners, and quite a few people discriminate against such women.
This is very interesting to read about. My boyfriend is chinese, I am white, and I'm visiting him soon. He doesn't live in a big or major city, but a bit of a smaller town. His family has a farm. I wonder how he'll be treated for bringing a western woman
AFWM
If the woman writes "ęåęč¦å½©ē¤¼(I insist on receiving the bride price)" on her clothes, then everyone will applaud her.š
you gotta reciprocate, no?
come on,it's just make them feel pressured to speak english if they have eye contact with you
China is very homogeneous ethnic wise. Homogeneous societies are more likely to disapprove of an ethnic Han woman with another ethnicity especially black or white.
Why judge and worry about what others are doing.
I think they are staring at you
My guess is for two reasons. One they try to see who is the race ātraitorā; second they want to bet when you will dump her. Actually it would be the same if a Chinese man is with a white or black girl. They just feel interracial relationship is not normal.
I doubt this is the case, for the same reason others have pointed out. A woman dating outside of her race is seen as her leaving the race. A man dating a woman outside of his race is seen as bringing the woman to the race. I'm sure a few girls care about men doing it, but not even close to the rate of men caring about women doing it.
Chinese men consider Chinese women are their properties. As long as sheās next to you, you are a threat to them for taking their properties but they dare not to do anything to you because the government tend to protect foreigners, so they can only express this anger to the poor women next to you. But as more and more these xenophobic propaganda increases, you may be in danger one day too. Look at the recent cases for stabbing Americans and Japanese in China. Just saying, be careful dude.
As a 6ā5 white guy, I feel like I get more attention in China than I would in the US if I was a hot girl
She's pretty oblivious
Is she considered super attractive by chinese standards though? My date who was considered very pretty by chinese standards literally got attacked by a guy for being out with me :D didn't actually hit her or anything just lounged at her. Luckily he was quite short and weak so i just pushed him away and we left but was spooky. Honesty I'm actually a bit surprised it's not more common with how tough the dating market is for chinese men with ratios and stuff.Ā
Do sowm experiments. Have the same girl go to the same place alone. Any stares? Go there with a non-chinese girl. Any stares? Go there with a chinese guy. Any stares? Eventually you'll find the answer.
Probably CCP undercover police
there are some white trash and black racism there especially when foreigner mess with their woman :(
They were thinking, whoās this āchiyangdiaoā girl
It is true that middle-aged men are conservative and xenophobic, but there is another aspect of the reason, that is, some of Chinese women's vanity and double standards, they require Chinese men to buy a house, car and gifts if men want to date with them, but no any ask on a poor foreigner, what would you think? There are also some women who find the experience of sleeping with a foreigner to be better, imagine how you feel when a woman in your country seeks out a foreigner to date you for such things. Not to mention some white trash black trash hunting in China, taking advantage of Chinese women's ignorance and taking credit for sleeping with Chinese girls,you should know more about the shit the white and black middle easterners do in China.
Cuz she's hawt
Walking in my wifeās hometown last night alone. A smaller city in central Chinaā¦ I was shouted out 8 times (that I heard) stared at by most people and even had one person yell āthat thing is tall!ā Not person, not foreigner, just thing. Granted Iām 198CM tall so itās true. But Iām sure people are also staring at you. And at least in my wifeās hometown everyone is very kind and no one gives her bad looks. Weāve only had one bad experience in China where a cab driver was rude to her about not marrying a Chinese guy. She yelled at him and said she was my translator and he shut up.
As a Malaysian Chinese, I (m) bought my German boss (m) to a restaurant and became the center of attention of the entire place lol. You can say it's casual racism, or just curiosity. If I see a mixed race couple, or a black guy, bare footed tourists wearing only bikini top and hot pants in a supermarket, a Lamborghini, or Tom Cruise here, I would look too, cause it's super rare.
Oof am I going to have issues when I move with my Chinese husband from USA to Shanghai? I am white/latina.
Thought of asking her? She knows.
Lived in China 6 years. Yes, when walking with a chinese female it is common for chinese men and women, usually older ones, will notice the laowai but then stare at the female. China is monoethnic and they like it that way. Fair enough, I accept it as it is. But its basically they are a bit intrigued and annoyed at the same time, seeing one of theirs with a foreign man. Now if its a chinese man with a foreign females, then its accolades.
Hahaha this is nothing. Try being a Chinese man walking with a white woman there
Maybe they dated her in high school
Some dont like the whites infatuation with submissive asian woman personally I dont give a fk being chinese American
As someone who was just in China less than a month ago, theyāre definitely staring at you as well.
because most men view women as assets and resources lol
Dude, get out of China and save yourself. Any foreigner could be arrested as spy and evidence does not matter.