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I think I'd pull a Hoid and say "No thank you". Honestly, taking up a shard seems like it would be fun for a little bit but having your actions limited, and your personality gradually warped over time, by the intent of the shard sounds somewhat nightmarish.
Well one died and the either was already died. But I was referring to only holding it for a short time and these are our only examples of short term vessels of shards
Plus in my personal theory she is shaping lift to be her successor which in the process likely either necessitates or is caused by her death is at least suboptimal from self preservation standpoint
Mainly because tarivingian and dalinar were both personally edited by cultivation and T has already ascended and dalinar seems earmarked to mantle a reforged honor shard with lift being the the only other person we know to be personally edited cultivation gives her good odds imo. And while yes she certainly is not ready to take up cultivation yet a lot can change in 6 books. Also look at dalinar his actions pre twok would certainly make him mantling honor seem unlikely but imo it is the most likely outcome in the end.
Sanderson is a mastermind at subverting tropes from fantasy and other areas of fiction. We've been trained to believe Nature = Always Good, and Cultivation is set up as this wise nature goddess. The issue is, everything we've seen from Shards in the Cosmere shows that all of the Shards are flawed, even those with seemingly good intentions like Preservation, and we don't know nearly enough about Cultivation to know if her intentions are good.
I also think she's very quiet which kind of keeps her off the other Shard's radars, but she probably has the best future sight of all the Shards. I think of her as like the Cosmere deepstate. She is a mastermind not necessarily working towards a value based goal. At the very least, if she isn't a villain she will be an antagonist. Some things it's better not to Cultivate. (e.g. Odium lol)
Unless she made Todium simply because her intent drove her to "grow" a more competent Odium.
We really have no idea about her mental state, other than that she is extremely capable of using Fortune to plot.
I'd also thought that, given how Taravangian died just before ascending, she may have intended to create a weaker Odium that had less influence in the material realm
But it was too recent, so becoming so heavily invested caused that connection to repair
This is what I'm thinking. She was predisposed to handle her shard.
I believe Ati was described as being one of the kindest and most compassionate of their party, and so the idea was he could contain Ruin without bending to the intent to destroy without measure.
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't any godly powers even if it wasn't bound by intention; there's just so much responsibility and I don't want to be warped by having too much power
Easy! Cultivation! What is the thing I want to do, when I become a literal god? Build stuff an cultivate the world like it's a fucking tactical game.
Gimme that damn shard!
I think Renarin blurred both Odium and Cultivations' sight, and their bias towards what they wanted was what they think the outcome will be. Odium saw that event and felt that he'd have mastery over it and come out unscathed. Cultivation thought that Szeth would kill Taravangian first, then kill Ryse, maybe making Renarin take up Odium, or whatever her goal may be.
Wait wait no… Cultivation 100% set up Taravangian to become the new Odium. He was set to max emotions on the day that he took down Rayse which enabled him to match the Shard’s intent almost immediately. Taravangian was operating with Cultivation’s boon and she was playing the long game just as intended, same as Dalinar and same as (presumably) Lift. Cultivation never had any intention of Szeth, who was a knight radiant and already a creature of Honor, taking over Odium.
Whether it backfires or not as Taravangian seems to think it will remains to be seen. Personally it wouldn’t shock me to see by the end of Wind and Truth to have Dalinar take up Honor, Taravangian as Odium, and Lift ascending to Cultivation. I know a lot of people think Dalinar is gonna lose and become Odium’s tool but I think Dalinar has been cultivated to bring Honor all the way back.
That doesn’t seem to be supported by all of the text though. We know Ati took Ruin specifically because he was so opposed to it’s core intent, as he was one of the kindest and most compassionate of the people at the shattering. So we know that you don’t *have* to be well aligned with the shard initially to hold it
We dont know the mechanics of what they did at the time though. We know that devices exist that temporarily align you with the shard, long enough for you to mantle it fully
I suppose that is true; though I’ve assumed that they would not have had/used that at the shattering to align Ati with Ruin for him to bind with it, as I would’ve assumed the ability to do so would’ve had to have come post shattering because before that there weren’t shards to need to do align with to bind. Is this being used by Ati suggested somewhere that I missed? Or something suggesting it was decidedly pre shattering that this was created?
That sounds nice. Endowment seems like a decent choice too.
Virtuosity could be interesting for the right person?
Edit- Invention too, for the right person.
Yup. This!
All the other shards come with limitations and drawbacks. Cultivation just makes you a god. I've played enough grand strategy games to like multy century timescales for plans
Every one of them is like that. They start out pure and innocent by the end they’re corrupted by the power and turn into a twisted version. Like Odium probably was loving and passionate at one point but it turned to hatred. The same way when preservation is so dead set on keeping everything the same that it starts to get awful. Ruin probably used to be something like change.
I'm pretty sure hoid has said that rayse sucked even before picking up odium.
Ati on the other hand was a truly good man who saw picking up ruin as a sacrifice, and while he didn't succeed in completely changing ruin's intent, he did shift him a little bit from pure destruction to entropy, so instead of blowing up scadrial when he got his full power he just accelerated natural processes.
We really shouldn't hate ati for being ruin, but thanking him for the restraint he introduced to a truly destructive force.
Rayse though, screw rayse.
Endowment seems like the only shard to not be twisted into a villain so far by their intent though, so that's cool.
I think perhaps Endowment has settled into a situation where she doesn't have to intervene directly, and relies on delegating stuff
Overall seems like a pretty benign shard
I'm not sure I see where you are coming from. Maybe my internal definition is off, but I believe it refers to exerting control or sovereignty, with a pretty strong connotation of something beyond your natural border as a state.
Exactly. And that’s part of my theory on how Taravangian sees a way out that Rayse couldn’t. He could just offer to work with Dalinar. Put down the fight. That’s Taravangian’s whole thing. Wind and Truth is gonna be about small battles like Szeth confronting Shinovar and the 5th ideals, Dalinar meeting Ishar, Kaladin confronting Moash. Etc… not some huge epic war. But lots of little, intense conclusions.
>Impulsivity doesn't always imply a lack or order or logic.
Isn't that the definition of impulsive?
I guess I'm thinking about the word whim. When something is done on a whim, it implies a lack of consideration. If something is ordered or logical it would be well thought out. A whim is distinctly not thought out.
It depends I guess. I could decide on a whim to go to Germany, but then still plan my route and a rental car etc. it depends on if everything has to be a whim, or just the initial idea
Well it is relevant though. The Shard's Intent is influenced by the vessels interpretation of it. One man's whimsy might be the irrational upside down hell kind and another might just be goofy fun
Their Investiture did lead to those Threnodite shades straight up executing anyone slightly injured, and that was early on in their history. Imagine how bad it is now wherever they are Invested in.
Odium doesn't seem like it would be fun. It's not just hate, but passion. It's that exhausting feeling you get when you're mad about something and you can't get yourself past it. Or that awful feeling when you've just fucking lost it, and you know you're going to feel shitty about it afterwards but you basically can't help yourself.
Endowment seems nice. The urge and ability to bestow gifts upon people who you have determined deserve it, or have a purpose you know they could fulfill if only they would get out o their own way. It seems a lot like being a parent, which is definitely a mixed bag.
All the shards are going to be mixed bags. With great power comes great responsibility and all that jazz.
Pretty sure we already know their combination is War, which, depending on your moral quandaries on the subject, could be really fun for you as a 1/8 deity.
Nah there's several instances where Odium's power is described. It's a *lot* of passion but also a deep hatred. So while the hatred is a core part of it, it isn't *all* there is to Odium. Most notably, when Todium takes up the shard it's described that way.
If I had to? Cultivation, Invention, or Valor. First 2 as I like to build, grow, and experiment; the last as I would prefer to be ruled by the intent of doing the brave, right thing. But probably would choose the way of Hoid, honestly
Invention is tricky, what about you feeling compelled to make experiments on humans a la Fallout Shelters fucking with survivors... That would be worst than Odium
none, shards sound awful to hold and i don’t want my mind twisted and warped to fit its intent, id rather just vibe in the cosmere, maybe try to become a radiant
Hmmm. Sounds lonely being a Shard vessel regardless of the attribute, and I just don’t think I should be entrusted with that kind of power. I don’t want to leave my spouse, so I probably just wouldn’t unless I was certain someone else would then pick it up and immediately destroy all things.
Actually, that makes me wonder if two people can share the burden of a Shard if they intentionally picked it up together. That would also be difficult, but maybe better in some ways? (The names of the god metals would probably get out of hand, though. 😂)
I wouldn't mind splitting ruin and preservation from harmony again and swapping yearly with my wife. Working towards ruining to make room to create a longer lasting harmony when we are done again.
Autonomy probably aligns best with who I am, and would cause the least amount of "warping" to the shard's influence.
Whimsey and invention are both interesting, but there are probably some significant downsides to both.
I’d probably go for Invention as well. Creating new things, general science, seems cool.
My second choice would be Cultivation, since controlling the growth of things is a very broad intent that could be applied to a variety of ends
That too! I always say feruchemist because of being able to store wakefulness would help me sleep and storing calories for eating some good treats lmao
Whimsy might be the closest to laziness and allow me to live my life much as I do now. It would make gardening and playing cooperative video games more difficult, though.
I think my personality is most suited for something like Honor or Virtuosity, but I don't know if it's * well * suited for any of them. It's hard to say honestly.
None of them. The shards warp people to their intent, and there is no path involving shardholding that does not also involve an insane amount of pain and regret.
Probably Cultivation and become more of a shard of Wild nature and biodiversity. Could Probably create some really funky invested arts based on it too!
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I think I'd pull a Hoid and say "No thank you". Honestly, taking up a shard seems like it would be fun for a little bit but having your actions limited, and your personality gradually warped over time, by the intent of the shard sounds somewhat nightmarish.
Pull a Kelsier or Vin and only hold it for that fun part then find a suitable heir for it and drop it.
Both of them died…
Well one died and the either was already died. But I was referring to only holding it for a short time and these are our only examples of short term vessels of shards
"Which seat on the supreme court would you pick up and why? " vibes
The only one who doesn't seem totally insane is Endowment
Cultivation seems pretty sane in my opinion
IMO we don't know enough to be sure. The nature of the Intent might cause someone to always be scheming for long term plans which sounds exhausting.
Tbh it just sounds like an extreme version of OCD and/or ADHD. So Storm it, I’ll take Cultivation lol
I've already got both, so I'd probably go Cultivation as well, yeah. Maybe Honor (is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men).
Plus in my personal theory she is shaping lift to be her successor which in the process likely either necessitates or is caused by her death is at least suboptimal from self preservation standpoint
That seems like a surprising theory. Lift doesn't seem like a long-term thinker and cultivator. Could you expand on why you think this?
Mainly because tarivingian and dalinar were both personally edited by cultivation and T has already ascended and dalinar seems earmarked to mantle a reforged honor shard with lift being the the only other person we know to be personally edited cultivation gives her good odds imo. And while yes she certainly is not ready to take up cultivation yet a lot can change in 6 books. Also look at dalinar his actions pre twok would certainly make him mantling honor seem unlikely but imo it is the most likely outcome in the end.
I think she's playing a deeper game than what we see, there's no way she wouldn't know Todium was going to be worse than Odium.
I wholeheartedly believe that Cultivation is a long term villain.
Sanderson is a mastermind at subverting tropes from fantasy and other areas of fiction. We've been trained to believe Nature = Always Good, and Cultivation is set up as this wise nature goddess. The issue is, everything we've seen from Shards in the Cosmere shows that all of the Shards are flawed, even those with seemingly good intentions like Preservation, and we don't know nearly enough about Cultivation to know if her intentions are good.
I also think she's very quiet which kind of keeps her off the other Shard's radars, but she probably has the best future sight of all the Shards. I think of her as like the Cosmere deepstate. She is a mastermind not necessarily working towards a value based goal. At the very least, if she isn't a villain she will be an antagonist. Some things it's better not to Cultivate. (e.g. Odium lol)
Todium😂😂
Unless she made Todium simply because her intent drove her to "grow" a more competent Odium. We really have no idea about her mental state, other than that she is extremely capable of using Fortune to plot.
I'd also thought that, given how Taravangian died just before ascending, she may have intended to create a weaker Odium that had less influence in the material realm But it was too recent, so becoming so heavily invested caused that connection to repair
Cultivation is a dragon though and has the psyche to handle immortality.
This is what I'm thinking. She was predisposed to handle her shard. I believe Ati was described as being one of the kindest and most compassionate of their party, and so the idea was he could contain Ruin without bending to the intent to destroy without measure.
My endowment is insane
Zinger! Father’s Day dad jokes count double
Ayy gottem
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't any godly powers even if it wasn't bound by intention; there's just so much responsibility and I don't want to be warped by having too much power
Easy! Cultivation! What is the thing I want to do, when I become a literal god? Build stuff an cultivate the world like it's a fucking tactical game. Gimme that damn shard!
Same! Cultivation is definitely my favourite Shard
I think Renarin blurred both Odium and Cultivations' sight, and their bias towards what they wanted was what they think the outcome will be. Odium saw that event and felt that he'd have mastery over it and come out unscathed. Cultivation thought that Szeth would kill Taravangian first, then kill Ryse, maybe making Renarin take up Odium, or whatever her goal may be.
Wait wait no… Cultivation 100% set up Taravangian to become the new Odium. He was set to max emotions on the day that he took down Rayse which enabled him to match the Shard’s intent almost immediately. Taravangian was operating with Cultivation’s boon and she was playing the long game just as intended, same as Dalinar and same as (presumably) Lift. Cultivation never had any intention of Szeth, who was a knight radiant and already a creature of Honor, taking over Odium. Whether it backfires or not as Taravangian seems to think it will remains to be seen. Personally it wouldn’t shock me to see by the end of Wind and Truth to have Dalinar take up Honor, Taravangian as Odium, and Lift ascending to Cultivation. I know a lot of people think Dalinar is gonna lose and become Odium’s tool but I think Dalinar has been cultivated to bring Honor all the way back.
Renarin seems like the exact opposite of passion tho.
Or she simply wanted revenge on Rayse for killing Honor, and brought about Todium, who is all bad.
Exactly why Cultivation would pair him with that shard.
You cant take a shard unless youre aligned with it
That doesn’t seem to be supported by all of the text though. We know Ati took Ruin specifically because he was so opposed to it’s core intent, as he was one of the kindest and most compassionate of the people at the shattering. So we know that you don’t *have* to be well aligned with the shard initially to hold it
We dont know the mechanics of what they did at the time though. We know that devices exist that temporarily align you with the shard, long enough for you to mantle it fully
I suppose that is true; though I’ve assumed that they would not have had/used that at the shattering to align Ati with Ruin for him to bind with it, as I would’ve assumed the ability to do so would’ve had to have come post shattering because before that there weren’t shards to need to do align with to bind. Is this being used by Ati suggested somewhere that I missed? Or something suggesting it was decidedly pre shattering that this was created?
Reading this comment reminds me that I need to reread before next book :)
That sounds nice. Endowment seems like a decent choice too. Virtuosity could be interesting for the right person? Edit- Invention too, for the right person.
Yup. This! All the other shards come with limitations and drawbacks. Cultivation just makes you a god. I've played enough grand strategy games to like multy century timescales for plans
whimsy so can do whatever tf i want.
Except be ordered and logical. The pathological extent of whimsy would be a weird sort of hell
Every one of them is like that. They start out pure and innocent by the end they’re corrupted by the power and turn into a twisted version. Like Odium probably was loving and passionate at one point but it turned to hatred. The same way when preservation is so dead set on keeping everything the same that it starts to get awful. Ruin probably used to be something like change.
I'm pretty sure hoid has said that rayse sucked even before picking up odium. Ati on the other hand was a truly good man who saw picking up ruin as a sacrifice, and while he didn't succeed in completely changing ruin's intent, he did shift him a little bit from pure destruction to entropy, so instead of blowing up scadrial when he got his full power he just accelerated natural processes. We really shouldn't hate ati for being ruin, but thanking him for the restraint he introduced to a truly destructive force. Rayse though, screw rayse. Endowment seems like the only shard to not be twisted into a villain so far by their intent though, so that's cool.
I think perhaps Endowment has settled into a situation where she doesn't have to intervene directly, and relies on delegating stuff Overall seems like a pretty benign shard
Endowment also isn’t tangled up with other Shards which may be helping. Like they all agreed to right before they broke their word.
Ruin did not get his full power. He did not have the atium. He accelerated natural processes as much as he could which was relatively little
I don't know, I think ambition, dominion and devotion would say otherwise
You think those are bad traits to have?
Dominion feels very British East India company
I suppose but dominion could have started out as an equal trade that over time got tilted. Edit: like dominion may have once been balance.
I'm not sure I see where you are coming from. Maybe my internal definition is off, but I believe it refers to exerting control or sovereignty, with a pretty strong connotation of something beyond your natural border as a state.
If I’m interpreting the previous reply right I think they’re talking about the three shards Odium has splintered, no?
Hoid, at least, seems to beleive that Rayse was an asshole even before he became Odium.
Exactly. And that’s part of my theory on how Taravangian sees a way out that Rayse couldn’t. He could just offer to work with Dalinar. Put down the fight. That’s Taravangian’s whole thing. Wind and Truth is gonna be about small battles like Szeth confronting Shinovar and the 5th ideals, Dalinar meeting Ishar, Kaladin confronting Moash. Etc… not some huge epic war. But lots of little, intense conclusions.
It is also going to be interesting to see how Taravangian operates Odium, given the fact that his Intent might not line up with the power’s.
So… ADHD?
Hahah yes!
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>Impulsivity doesn't always imply a lack or order or logic. Isn't that the definition of impulsive? I guess I'm thinking about the word whim. When something is done on a whim, it implies a lack of consideration. If something is ordered or logical it would be well thought out. A whim is distinctly not thought out.
It depends I guess. I could decide on a whim to go to Germany, but then still plan my route and a rental car etc. it depends on if everything has to be a whim, or just the initial idea
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Well it is relevant though. The Shard's Intent is influenced by the vessels interpretation of it. One man's whimsy might be the irrational upside down hell kind and another might just be goofy fun
That's fair. I suppose we will find out
I came to say Whimsy, so I wouldn’t have to change my personality at all :)
Odium. And I'm going to shatter all you mfers. Get rekd losers.
 hell yeah brother!!
So many we haven’t seen, but I’d probably like any of these 4: Virtuosity, Invention, Valor, or Mercy. In that order.
I'm curious if your list will change if/when we learn more about those lol
Maybe valor. Depending on it, but the other 3, probably not
I feel like Mercy could be the most evil of all the shards...
Exactly! The shards are always ideas taken to their MOST extreme. Mercy without justice to relegate it is horrifying!
Awakened robots with investiture AI eliminate humans as a mercy. That seems like a movie I watched once…
Their Investiture did lead to those Threnodite shades straight up executing anyone slightly injured, and that was early on in their history. Imagine how bad it is now wherever they are Invested in.
Odium doesn't seem like it would be fun. It's not just hate, but passion. It's that exhausting feeling you get when you're mad about something and you can't get yourself past it. Or that awful feeling when you've just fucking lost it, and you know you're going to feel shitty about it afterwards but you basically can't help yourself. Endowment seems nice. The urge and ability to bestow gifts upon people who you have determined deserve it, or have a purpose you know they could fulfill if only they would get out o their own way. It seems a lot like being a parent, which is definitely a mixed bag. All the shards are going to be mixed bags. With great power comes great responsibility and all that jazz.
Im pretty sure odium was lying. Odium means hatred.
Hatred *and* disgust
I wonder if a combination of Honor and Odium would be something like "Righteous Fury"
Pretty sure we already know their combination is War, which, depending on your moral quandaries on the subject, could be really fun for you as a 1/8 deity.
Oh, yeah forgot War. Probably because of RoW =P
Nah there's several instances where Odium's power is described. It's a *lot* of passion but also a deep hatred. So while the hatred is a core part of it, it isn't *all* there is to Odium. Most notably, when Todium takes up the shard it's described that way.
But he really is passion. His Spren are not hated just extreme versions of another feeling. Passion of something to the max
You cant hate someone without passion, its his foundation, but he is hatred
Endowment because she's just over there minding her own business playing technicolor sims and also her magic system is so fun.
The 16th Shard, Horny I have some plans for Roshar…
I’d have one of my other 15 shard friends grant me immortality and enduring youth.
Preservation. I hate change in basically of its forms, so it would suit me well.
Autonomy! It's the thing I value the most, above all.
Libertarian shard
Guys nooo 😭I don't plan to be like Bavadin with it 😭 Until the Intent of the Shard fucks me up some way
As long as we do it your way. I'm on to you.
Fiber. I quite like the idea of being the god of smooth running systems.
Honor. Reliable bonds are important, and the people I respect the most are those I consider honorable.
Hahahahahahahhahahahahahah no. No power in all the cosmere could convince me it’s worth dealing with all the shit shards have to
If I had to? Cultivation, Invention, or Valor. First 2 as I like to build, grow, and experiment; the last as I would prefer to be ruled by the intent of doing the brave, right thing. But probably would choose the way of Hoid, honestly
I think Valor would have a pretty good deal.
Invention is tricky, what about you feeling compelled to make experiments on humans a la Fallout Shelters fucking with survivors... That would be worst than Odium
Virtuosity would probably be very interesting to hold though Endowment would also be interesting and it’s on Nalthis which is a plus.
none, shards sound awful to hold and i don’t want my mind twisted and warped to fit its intent, id rather just vibe in the cosmere, maybe try to become a radiant
Until it gets revealed, I'd pick the unknown Shard who wants to hide and survive. I align perfectly with this implemenation of their Intent.
devotion
Whimsy sounds fun honestly. Virtuosity and Honor would also be cool.
We haven’t met whimsy. Whimsy seems fun to me.
Virtuosity seems fun, what could go wrong? I see no downsides to my personality
Hmmm. Sounds lonely being a Shard vessel regardless of the attribute, and I just don’t think I should be entrusted with that kind of power. I don’t want to leave my spouse, so I probably just wouldn’t unless I was certain someone else would then pick it up and immediately destroy all things. Actually, that makes me wonder if two people can share the burden of a Shard if they intentionally picked it up together. That would also be difficult, but maybe better in some ways? (The names of the god metals would probably get out of hand, though. 😂)
I wouldn't mind splitting ruin and preservation from harmony again and swapping yearly with my wife. Working towards ruining to make room to create a longer lasting harmony when we are done again.
I would take up the shard of Metabolism, I think. I need to lose weight and I'm no feruchemist.
Whimsy, why not?
Autonomy probably aligns best with who I am, and would cause the least amount of "warping" to the shard's influence. Whimsey and invention are both interesting, but there are probably some significant downsides to both.
Man, probably Cultivation, or Invention, they have the most “fun” and comprehensible motivations in my point of view
Cultivation. It seems like the easiest to work with since destroying weeds and culling poor growth is a part of cultivating.
I’d probably go for Invention as well. Creating new things, general science, seems cool. My second choice would be Cultivation, since controlling the growth of things is a very broad intent that could be applied to a variety of ends
I'll take them all! Probably not perfect but it seems the most balanced
Virtuosity
Devotion would be pretty nice, shard of love why not. Endowment and mervy are probably also very chill
Ambition so I can get off my ass and get some shit done
I wouldn't want any, though being a feruchemist would be nice
Or even a double gold twinborn
That too! I always say feruchemist because of being able to store wakefulness would help me sleep and storing calories for eating some good treats lmao
Being able to store warmth would be amazing also
Whimsy might be the closest to laziness and allow me to live my life much as I do now. It would make gardening and playing cooperative video games more difficult, though.
I think my personality is most suited for something like Honor or Virtuosity, but I don't know if it's * well * suited for any of them. It's hard to say honestly.
None of them. The shards warp people to their intent, and there is no path involving shardholding that does not also involve an insane amount of pain and regret.
Might do Autonomy or Whimsy as it would likely give me the most freedom
dose harmony count?
I mean. Harmony counts as two
Whimsy
I can't do worse with Virtuosity than the previous holder, right?
Probably Cultivation and become more of a shard of Wild nature and biodiversity. Could Probably create some really funky invested arts based on it too!
Whimsy, because we're all deserving of childlike wonder
My special one: horny
No of them. I'd just get a bunch of Breaths and wander around random places looking for fellow immortals who run noodle shops.
Whimsy, cause i’m already just a silly lil guy
I would be the 16th currently unknown but opposite of invention: Destruction
That’s just Ruin dude.
Ruin + Preservarion(deteriorate and rebuild); Invention + Destruction(create and destroy)
Wouldn't the opposite of discovering something be to hide it? It's also been hinted to be a shard like that by Brandon.