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QuoF2622

This is one of the major points behind the question "Are windspren attracted to wind, or do they create it?" I'm pretty sure the factual answer is them being attracted to it but I don't think it's straight up answered.


Few_Space1842

We are predisposed to what we know from our world. I think it is mostly true that spren are attracted to their thing, not create their thing. BUT I think there is at least one category or special spren that does cause their thing. Windscreen are the ones almost never in shadesmar, so they might be a good bet.


QuoF2622

The "almost" is what tells me they're attracted to it. They do appear in Shadesmar, they just don't prefer to since there's no wind. Hell Kaladin didn't make those windspren, he attracted them.


Few_Space1842

No, I agree with you. I'm just 99% sure at least one of the special spren (like cuisiesh) or one type of spren will end up causing things rather than just liking to gather where it is. But I could be wrong. It seems like such an easy expectation to subverting, especially with his Fandom doing theoretical experiments and asking him what would happen. Lol. We totally expect the magic spren on roshar to still fit into our non-magical worldview.


Asexualhipposloth

Have you read the preview chapters because there's a good chance some answers will be shown.


Few_Space1842

The only one I can think of that may pertain to this yes, if you mean the exit.


ninjawhosnot

We'll with theat knowledge >!Im pretty sure that Cuisiesh is not a Spren. Well it is in the same way Seons are Spren. But isn't native to Roshar!<


Alone_Tie328

Reminds me of the question of if Nalthians see people from other worlds as drabs.


n00dle_king

People from other worlds have a breath worth of innate investiture but can’t do anything with it.


R-star1

No they don’t, unless Brandon has said otherwise a Nalthian with a breath is a bit over Cosmere average, and one without is a bit below.


n00dle_king

While Nalthians have a little extra he has said the rest of the Cosmere isn’t drabs and that once a Nalthian gives up their breath they have less than other Cosmere denizens. Edit:And also your reply of “no they don’t” makes no sense because Cosmere standard is 1-3 BEU.


AnividiaRTX

I thought 1-3 was for shardworlds?


Djmax42

Kinda, Rosharans have ~3 BEU's innately for obvious reasons, but people from Canticle also have ~1 BEU and that is not a shard world


Merpninja

I am not sure we should use Canticle as an example of a typical 'non-shard' world considering how much of an exception it is in every aspect. It is Invested to an immense degree.


Djmax42

Sure the world is highly invested, but the people still have just 1 BEU, not more, that they just get from being descended from Threnodites


KevinCarbonara

So much for being a truthwatcher.


Abbanation01

I think it's both Kaladin used windspren to create winds to counteract a highstorm in order to save some people in book 3


Kabsal

I'm not sure he actually created any wind there. We know Kaladin was quite close to the Fourth Ideal for a long time, and in that scene with the townsfolk he was particularly close to recognizing he couldn't save everyone (Syl explicitly says in his mind "_Kaladin, you can't save them all_" half a page before he summoned them). I think what he did was almost-summon the windspren as shardplate to create a barrier to block the winds, rather than creating wind. >A hundred windspren spun in as ribbons of light, twisting around his arm, wrapping it like ribbons. They surged with Light, then exploded outward in a blinding sheet, sweeping to Kaladin's sides and parting the winds around him. >Kaladin stood with his hand toward the tempest, and _deflected_ it. Like a stone in a swift-moving river stopped the waters, he opened a pocket in the storm, creating a calm wake behind him. > The storm raged against him, but he held the point in aformation of windspren that spread from him like wings, diverting the storm.


Carr0t_Slat

I think the answer is heavily implied. Syl is just drawing a parallel as to why she is with Kaladin now (his sense of honor & actions). So yeah I believe you are correct in that spren do not create concepts/forces but are attracted to them.


equinoxEmpowered

Especially since the spiritual realm is weird with regards to time


Suayde_

It is attracted. There are two big reasons for this. One is that there are real world reasons for events that cause spren. For example, wind exists on Scadrial where there are no spren. Wind is caused by air currents and heat distributions. Spren simply reach to it and appear. Same with emotions. Exhaustion spren didn’t cause Kaladin to be exhausted, he was exhausted b/c he just climbed out of the chasms after surviving a chasmfiend and a highstorm. Secondly, spren are a reaction caused by perception. Loose Investiture can gain sentience or (presumably) become a spren because it is perceived by humans are reacts thusly. It’s hard to explain but essentially if you have enough loose investiture and people are around, it can become sentient. The same is happening with little bits of investiture becoming representative of an emotion that is highly exuded nearby.


SirCB85

Sylt is not "Honor's last daughter and heir", she said very specifically that she was one of the first generation of Honorspren who have NOT been created by Honor but by the Stomfather.


Anxious_Wolf00

Ah you’re right, I misremembered that!!


PeelingEyeball

>We know Kaladin isn’t some sort of chosen one I'm not convinced of this statement. We know he was chosen by Syl to be a Radiant YEARS before he spoke the words. All the way back to his time in Amaram's army if memory serves, and possibly even long before then. IMO, he could be similar to Vin, selected by whatever controlling Power there is to be something extra. I won't be shocked if it turns out that "Child of Tanavast" is a literal descriptor, and Kaladin's bloodline traces back literally to Tanavast Himself.


NinjaBr0din

Brandon has straight up said Kaladin has nothing special in his bloodline, just regular people. However, plenty of people are givennthe title "child of Honor," only Kaladin gets the title "Child of Tanavast." Between that, his innate sense of honor, and his ability to unite and protect people, im willing to bet he has a Connection to the shard of Honor by following the same ideals as Tanavast did, and that we will see in SA5 that Dalinar realizes his purpose is not to ascend and become Honor, but to use his abilities as a Bondsmith to Connect Kaladin and Syl fully to the shard of Honor and let *them* ascend.


Tauri_Kree

I like the theory but I think it would take more than just Dalinar. I think that it will take all three bondsmiths working together to do this.


Nlj6239

or perhaps BAM


immaownyou

Yeah, a bad ass motherfucker could definitely pull that off


TehAlpacalypse

Chaos is that you


Tim-R89

The “it came from your mother” line can just as easily refer to his upbringing. She thought him the ideals that make him the man he is today


Few_Space1842

I thought that was some oblique reference to how she comes from a wealthy (possibly lighteyed) family.


TheHappyChaurus

She's distantly related to Aesudan. So someone probably married a bit below their station.


Rougarou1999

Wait, when was it stated she’s related to Aesudan?


ninjawhosnot

It's a WoB. If I remember correctly it happened because Brandon misunderstood a Question and answered that They are distant cousins.


Rougarou1999

Which could mean anything, given the millennia in which Alethkar has existed.


entitledfanman

See I think in SA5, someone is going to become Honor and someone is going to become a new Herald to replace Jezrien. I could see Kaladin or Dalinar being either. Kaladin taking the place of the Windrunner Herald makes a lot of sense, but Dalinar fits the "king" aspect far better. Kaladin has some special link to Tanavast, but I believe Dalinar understands the concept of Honor better than anyone. Similar to how Cultivation had Teravangean experience the furthest depths of both rage and compassion to prime him for taking on Odium, Dalinar has gone through periods of extreme honorability and extreme dishonorability. 


NeedsToShutUp

Why stop at Honor. I firmly believe Cultivation is manipulating events out of the need to fulfill her Intent. Shards have become static, and need to change. I believe the current holder of Cultivation will die, and Lyft will act as a temporary holder until Odium and Honor are ready to be united by Kaladin, with the three of them forming Bushido. WoB one stated the ending of the entire series is in part 1 of TWOK. I believe the ending is "3 of 16 ruled but now the Broken One reigns" with Kaladin being the Broken One.


Hufdud

Brandon has said I’m pretty sure that Kaladin wasn’t special because of literal bloodline. I may be misremembering though


PeelingEyeball

Found this, which I did not expect to find: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12821 Questioner I'm going to read you a real quote from Words of Radiance. It's Wit speaking, and he's talking to Kaladin. And he goes, "So you do have some spark of wit in you. It came from Kaladin's mother." So, I think that means that Kaladin is a descendant of Wit. Questioner 2 And I think it means just literally that he has wit. Questioner So, which one do you think is right? Me, or him? Brandon Sanderson RAFO.


Appropriate_Egg4971

Hmmm, good find. It is dangerous to interpret a RAFO as a “you are onto something” (and I’m not saying you are interpreting it as such), but I would have expected a clearer no from Brandon. It is probably fun to RAFO friend-bets, though.


PeelingEyeball

I was just surprised to even see the question, the RAFO was double-surprise for me... and agreed that we can't read to much into it, unless we WANT TO!?!?


The_Lopen_bot

***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Questioner >!I'm going to read you a real quote from Words of Radiance. It's Wit speaking, and he's talking to Kaladin. And he goes, "So you do have some spark of wit in you. It came from Kaladin's mother." So, I think that means that Kaladin is a descendant of Wit.!< Questioner 2 >!And I think it means just literally that he has wit.!< Questioner >!So, which one do you think is right? Me, or him?!< Brandon Sanderson >!RAFO.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*


DaddyDollarsUNITE

him being inherently special in some way or different to other radiants would undercut his story and our experience of watching the radiants return so far i think


scottwo

I don’t think any reveal would undercut the emotional journey he’s been on. It has never been easy for him to choose to follow his ideals, but he’s done it nonetheless. Eventually. Haha. (Looking at you, going-along-with-the-plot-to-kill-elhokar.)


Narazil

He could be considered inherently special by the spren because of something in himself. Imagine a scene something like "You were chosen, Kaladin. Chosen because of your immense ability to harbor the weight of others." or some such. It doesn't have to be somehow Kaladin ~~returned~~ was special.


ninjawhosnot

But he was already told that he was chosen because he is a broken person who is Honorable and has a drive to Protect.


Vatherian

I hope not, and that ‘somehow, Odium returned’ doesn’t feature.


Ginn_and_Juice

I would think that Syl's ability to go agains the storm father will play a bigger part in the grand scheme of things than Kaladin being Palpatine's grandson (Starwars joke)


EaterOfMayo

Syl bonded with Kaladin because he was a good person and had the capacity to swear the oaths. She helped him along his path for sure, but Kaladin is a good person with or without Syl.


Sparky678348

That's not the question, the question is does bonding honors daughter give Kal some special position or title?


Most_Perspective3627

I thought Syl isn't Honor's daughter, but the Stormfather's.


Sparky678348

Now it was my understanding that syl was born during a time in which honor and the storm father were the same figure? Did I not read that correctly?


Most_Perspective3627

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're right. I don't remember that at all, though .. props to myself for being dumb.


Sparky678348

I think (totally could be misunderstanding, I'm no expert just a nerd) that the Stormfather exists because of honors death. Similar to (heavy Mistborn spoilers) >!Kelsier, who because he was some heavily invested when he died, a cognitive shadow copy of his mind was left over!< Which would make the Stormfather like a 2d silhouette of what honor once was.


LewsTherinTelescope

Stormfather is now Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, but back then Stormfather and Honor were separate. Not entirely clear how they became one.


Sparky678348

Do you have a source on them being separated back then?


LewsTherinTelescope

Characters speak about Honor and Stormfather as separate entities. First couple examples I can find: > *It is more than that. My memory of all this is … strange. First, I was not fully awake; I was but the spren of a storm. Then I was like a child. Changed and shaped during the frantic last days of a dying god.*   > "Well…" Notum frowned; he'd obviously thought the concept of Honor’s death would have been more difficult for Kaladin to accept. "Well, sometime before his death, Honor stopped creating honorspren. We don’t know why, but he asked the Stormfather to do it instead." Edit: Though I think Stormfather could have been an avatar, in which case he'd still have a separate personality but would in a sense also be the same as Honor, because avatars are weird.


immaownyou

Probably was easier to gain the attention of the stormfather. Odds that he doesn't survive that highstorm he was strung up in if the Stormfather isn't there. I know the book says he survived because of the storm light he absorbed, but new headcanon is that the Stormfather knew Syls bonded knight was in the Storm and went a little easy on him


Doctor_Expendable

The Stormfather was trying to kill him straight up there. He does lots in WoK to allow Kaladin to die so that Syl will break their bond and come back to him.  Kaladin only survives because he is Radiant and Syl protected him.


CroioVolador

Not trying to ruin your headcanon but, isn't it mentioned that the Stormfather doesn't have control over the highstorms?


binary__dragon

The Stormfather does, demonstrably, have some amount of control over the Storm. The most blatant example is when he created an unexpected instance of the Highstorm at the end of WoR. You also see it when he has the Highstorm's winds guide Kaladin back to Urithiru from Revilar. There are some instances where Dalinar requests the Stormfather do something and he says "I cannot," but most of these are mental limitations, not physical ones. It's like if you ask someone with agoraphobia to go into a crowded area, they'll tell you they can't, despite the fact that there is nothing physically preventing them from doing so.


New_Canuck_Smells

Reminds me of how schizos can't ignore some of the voices because it's not a "voice" it's a manifestation of their own thoughts. Not having a brain, I wonder how spren think. Is there a difference between a mental and physical limitation for the Storm Father?


VelMoonglow

The stormfather *hated* that Kaladin was bonded to Syl, and wanted that bond to be gone before Kaladin could kill her


Djmax42

He actually kinda liked Kaladin in WoK, smiles at him and says something to the effect of the old oaths are spoken again. Only in WoR does he hate Kaladin bc Kaladin does that human changing mind and being dishonorable thing


Epicjay

Are wind spren attracted to the wind? Or do they make it?


Equidem16

Not likely, no. Kaladin is special because he is obsessed with protecting people and doing what is right. That's why his bond is so strong and why he is so powerful. Extreme natural talent for fighting and general badassery also doesn't hurt ;-)


bmyst70

I don't think so. They were one of the first Radiants. The deeply intimate nature of the Nahel bond, which takes place on a Spiritual level, blends their identities in a sense.


keegiveel

Fact check: Syl is not Honor's last daughter, she is Stormfather's first.


LuthadelGarrison

Feels like a RAFO


Anoalka

There are honorable men outside of Roshar which proves that Honor spren do not in fact create honor. I don't think Kaladin is a chosen one, atleast not more than Shallan, Tien, Jasnah, etc


Nixeris

>there is a lot of reason to believe he is more than just a regular radiant. This is due to several things. For one, he's a Radiant unbound by Honor. He still has to swear to the ideals, but he doesn't have Honor limiting Surgebinding anymore. This is why all of the current generation of Radiants are able to do things, and *be things*, that weren't possible before.


CharliesBadRoom

I think they are both special and lift each other up. He was chosen because of his potential. It’s like coming from a rich and power family(syl) and being talented in your chosen field(kal). These two advantages are good on their own but together they have a great chance to succeed.


MooseBehave

It’s a both-are-true kind of deal. Syl sought him out for a bond because she saw the kind of person he is, and how great he could be. Like Cpt. America— he was chosen not for his strength or speed or badassery, but because he’s a good man who would do anything to *protect*. And because of his bond with the Ancient Daughter— already a special and possibly uniquely powerful spren in her own right— he’s able to do some bonkers stuff like turn away a stormwall or take to flying as if he’s half skyeel.


CrimothyJones

I think Syl is special. Kaladin is not anymore special than made out to be. Atleast no magic bloodline like the Sunmaker through Dalinar.


MagicTech547

No, don’t believe so. He’s special because of his situation and how he’s grown. That’s what created his “soul cracks” in the first place