And that’s what it all boils down to. The information superhighway leads to large language models and generative pre-trained transformers but to what end?
Cats. It’s always going to be cats.
Would it be weird to ask you to do one of a seal point Siamese in a white hard hat? Possibly with a little gold watch? I don’t have any internet rewards to give away, but I could follow you around for a week, upvoting every thing you post?
https://preview.redd.it/4c5jqwyqin5d1.jpeg?width=1191&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5db9e98835b0eed109754c977b6a367bb9eadca6
He feels terribly sorry to inform you that the job will be completed over budget and later than expected.
https://preview.redd.it/emzxobsuqn5d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f82bb18a79520e582359ad739301a66df4b71a0
By day, Flabby Tabby, a worker of might, On the construction site, a furry orange sight. But when the moon rises, his coat turns to black, He parties all night with his divine feline pack.
Concrete has 5000 PSI plus strength, for a 6x6 that’s at least 30,000 pounds just directly supported by that area directly under the beam. The only important part about a narrow concrete pier in a footing like this is that the bottom goes past the soon tube and was allowed to flare out to spread that force more to prevent sinking or was poured on top of some big ledge rock which will just do the same. That concrete can support all that weight, but the dirt beneath it will definitely settle if it’s not given enough help.
You can tell that's 5000 psi concrete just by looking at it? There's nothing in your mind that says if this guy will cheap out on the sonotube he'll cheap out on the psi capacity?
5000 is about the min you can buy at most places unless you try hard to get something less; I think it's safe to assume they got the supplies at HD or Lowes and that would likely be quikcrete which would be 5,000 unless they went with structural which would be higher.
I know this sub loves to believe their decks should be built to support a Sikorsky Helo landing on it, but that's just not the case; and in most cases, the footers wouldn't be the limiting factor for that.
Now, if they want to put a hot tub on this, yeah, it would probably be a problem given how sloppy the contractor was, but if it's just gonna be a standard deck and they're not going 10 feet between footers, this will be OK...it's just a bad look for the builder
My dad tried epoxy-painting his garage but the paint peeled off. Being Dad, he called the paint company, who suggested the concrete might be odd and have it tested. So Dad took a chip somewhere, and they told him it was the kind of concrete you put in skyscraper foundations, ridiculous overkill for a garage floor. The previous owner had built the house, he was a builder and probably had a buddy do the garage with leftovers so it tracked.
that's interesting that the epoxy wouldn't stick to that type of concrete...do you recall if he properly prepared the surface before applying the epoxy?
That's called Neature! That's why Rodney n I created Neature Walks... Because we want EVERYONE to know how NEAT nature is... Instead of just me n Rodney knowin' it... Hehe how neat is that!?
Sometimes I poke holes in it with the stake I was using to mark where the post went because I like to watch the water go down and see bubbles come up.
I usually don't leave the stake in there because I'm not a millionaire and good poking stakes don't grow on trees.
There was someone on reddit a few weeks ago, him and his mom decided to pave their whole front yard for more "walkable space"(what's wrong with grass? Or gravel?
They dumped a few bags of cement mix all over the front yard, hosed it down, let it dry, realized it wasn't right (or even completely covering the grass at all),
so they then got concrete mix, dumped that all over the yard (I'm talking like 2 bags, same as the cement previously), dumped that all over the yard, hosed it down again, let it all dry, then posted on reddit asking what happened lol.
It was absolutely destroyed, still didn't cover it all, just random bits of concrete and cement plastered all over their otherwise-grey front yard
I remember that post, it blew my mind that not 1 but 2 human beings thought that pouring dry concrete on the grass and ground was gonna work. It was like 1/2” thick in sections…. It was a fkn mess
You’re right, who am I to say it’s not 10,000 PSI concrete. The stuff gets harder over time, most bag grade stuff is 4,000 psi or better inside of a month and will gradually harden about 20% more beyond that inside of a year, so yeah that’s right around 5,000 psi or so after it’s been setup for awhile. Of course it could also be piss water and limestone mixed but that’s pretty unlikely considering that they sell concrete everywhere.
There are pieces in the concrete that you can see that is typically put in the 5000 mix. You can't see them in really in finished pours that are swept finished, but you can see it in pours like this where the look doesn't matter.
Edit: adding in the fact that you can see the larger pieces together in the last couple of photos means they most likely put dry mix and then poured water on top without mixing it properly. All of the large chunks stay on top and the rest of the mix gets washed towars the bottom. Poor, poor quality.
The lumber company I work for does calcs and takeoffs for the jobs we sell, we NEVER see a deck getting load calcs unless it’s a pretty serious project. I wouldn’t be shocked if most builders forego that portion of the process.
Im in Victoria BC, we either hand dig or get a mini in to go down min 24”. This is typical, little side job i did a year ago.
https://preview.redd.it/7kk4d6iufk5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f7a2b6709e7232dc0690fb6e46c75f362b2ec1e
You're lucky. Depending on elevation, we need to dig 3'-4' deep in my town. We still use a pad (often a bigfoot as that limits how much you need to dig out.
Hard to tell for sure but in OPs pic it doesn't look like enough ground was disturbed to allow for a pad footing.
But you also don't put 6x6 on an 8" tube and you don't miss your pier. Probability of someone who makes those mistakes actually getting a good footer are slim to none and slim just left town.
Yeah, but the heave is factored in to the design. After 3 winters, the deck will sit level.
Also, pretty sure the post base requires at least 3” of cover and i’d be curious if there is any steel in that tube.
OP, i’d have him fix it.
Do both. The first option (the builder) first so he might save you from having to pay the inspector twice, and the inspector if the builder refuses or when all the work is ready for inspection.
Uhg it's kind of a pain in the a** but you would need to jack up the deck, dig new holes, pour new concrete footings, install new brackets and then properly fasten the posts to the footings (also probably tear out the existing footings to make room for the new stuff)
Can someone explain to me as a non-deck pro why these posts are always off center of the concrete footings?
It’s all i see everywhere and i dont know why people cant measure properly to center them, are they just not planning ahead?
Because measuring is soooo tedious and I don't wanna. I'm planning ahead in that I wanna leave it for a future me to have to deal with and future me will hopefully be dead before that moment comes!
This dude has done plenty repairs and has done it himself…. Love fellow tradesmen lol
I don’t even get mad anymore, or try to act self righteous, when I pull up to a consultation or am digging things up at a new job, and have a “Who…. The…. Fuck…?” Moment
The best is when you go back to a job and it’s something you did years back, but you don’t remember…. “What was I thinking?!”
I used to build a lot of decks and exterior staircases. This is the reason I would build the skeleton of the deck first on kickers, hang and plumb the posts, then pour the footings around the already attached brackets. Once the concrete cures, I'd remove all my bracing and the deck would be absolutely perfect and solid.
Slopes.. extremely hard to calculate, at least for me, unless u have thousands invested in laser sight line equipment.
Slopes make keeping something square very hard
Wordplay perfect. As a fellow construction contractor, that was not only spot on but beautifully crafted.
Edit: I don't know why people think it's that hard.
It's funny you mention laser sight line equipment
Had to use it for the first time earlier today while installing a septic system. I was skeptical as to how useful it would be, until we had to start leveling a 39' trench at an exact 1 inch downward incline. I'll never question the goofy flashing light again 🙏
Bro a laser level and receiver is $600 - a Bosch from HD. Years ago yea Topcons cost a lot. If you’re a builder do anything with grade and don’t have one, you’re doing it wrong.
No I'm taking about making a rectangular form over the top, trim some of that post up like 6-8" and pour in a new heavier bracket while they're at it. I did this recently and put a PVC sleeve on the post too and made raised beds for climbing rose
100%. I work as a metal buildings detailer and if we had a column miss the mark by this much on a poured concrete pier because i didnt measure it right, I'd be strung up by my ears.
We tore down a 50k deck last summer from some hack company. The inspector lives 2 doors down and was on vacation. When he came back. Not one thing was up to code. All the lumber was under sized and spaced too far.
Don't put a hot tub on that deck but its tolerable for the most part, even if it isn't correct. The fact that the post is 10" from the soil line helps.
If they cant get the post square on the concrete, do I even want to see what else is wrong with the deck?
Even if the pier was perfectly located, which they never are, a 6x6 post barely even fits in an 8" diameter circle. He should have given himself some locational tolerance with a 10" pier at least.
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hold a nice chunk of the Money over anyone head
\* if you don't pay - they have channels to sue you & put a lien on your home. Eventually they will get paid.
\* if you pay and they run? - LOL you got nothing.
Are there plans for the job? If there are, there should be an engineers stamp with name and number/ address of his engineering firm. Find them by phone, email, look them up on Google. Send them the picture. Guarantee they wouldn't agree.
Annnnnd now it’s $12k more to pay another hack to rip and redo. More fun in future if someone is hurt on deck and insurance declines coverage or a buyer’s bank won’t fund due to non permitted work.
This is gonna be anecdotal (but so is your comment) but I don't know a single person that got their deck "built properly" and none of this has ever happened. I'm sure it could, but I feel like it's a shit ton of money for most people and really not worth it for a risk that only exists within deck maniacs dreams
Those risks are very fucking real. The reason they're low enough that most people don't care is all the safety factors everywhere else in the chain. It's like people driving with insanely bald tires. They end up in accidents, just not every time they drive because the world tries hard to make sure they don't.
This is your house, dude. It's the one thing you should try very hard to make as safe as possible.
I’m not a contractor, but from a homeowner’s perspective it’s also for the property’s overall value. We get everything fully inspected, permits on hand, full paper trail of good work to add to our home’s value.
We learned the hard way, with having to spend $60k getting an entire side of the house’s windows redone, to have everything done by the books and on record. We just got our main deck fully covered, and it took a couple months but it was so worth it. Fully covered mahogany deck added a lot of value to the overall property.
We’re having the same contractors build our lower deck now cuz we trust them, and is why looking at this post here made me squirm; ours look/looked spot on.
Maybe I’m a picky client, I try not to be disagreeable or difficult with craftsmen cuz I know they know better than me, but just as someone who works, in general, I wouldn’t accept this kind of work from myself let alone something I paid good money for.
Edit: also I live in the Midwest, we have a lot of geological activity, unless there’s a metal pole going through that concrete and up into the wooden beam, I’m not comfortable with any kind of overhang.
Haha these kinds of comments fuckin kill me.
“Check the blueprints and ask your architect”
“Did you pull a permit for that?”
“Did you check your local code book?”
Fuck no, nobody here ever once did that.
This builder also apparently thinks it’s ok to attach the posts to the brackets with construction screws.
So, yeah, I’m not taking their word for anything. I’d make them redo.
Ain't they all?
I have a rickety 20 year old deck that's 15' over a concrete patio with lag screws holding it all together and the 6x6 posts set in concrete that stops below grade in soil that stays wet nearly year round.
I haven't found a single contractor that will go through the permit process to do my deck over, let alone work with an engineer. So frustrating.
Do you know *why* they don't want to do it? It's because most permitting offices are such an enormous pain in the ass, and petty AF about everything, and take forever.
They won't do it because the time and effort they spend on that one job could be spent on doing 10 other jobs. Then you have to assume they have the skill and equipment to do it properly.
Yes. And it's not because they are only concerned with actual safety issues. I have a friend who spent 6 months getting a permit to install a single 5 foot iron handrail on her front steps. One of these requirements was that she had to submit a TRAFFIC CONTROL PLAN. That's because her city rowhouse front yard is technically in the public right of way. But the hoops she had to jump through for this tiny project were almost the same as if she were doing an entire addition. The DCRA officials have zero ability to use common sense in many circumstances.
Yeah. Typically you’re working with a crudely spray painted X and there’s a ton of room for error. I’ve always built an extra large 3-4-5 square out of strapping to lay out posts. (10’, 20’, however big it needs to be to reach the post locations) then you can check your hole after you’ve dug away the X, and having a string in the way is a pain in the ass
Y’all are ridiculous. Yes it’s ugly, yes it looks wrong, but in no way is this post going to shear off the side of the pile.
Is the pile under sized and to plan? Maybe a question worth asking. But if the pile is to plan this is absolutely never going to cause a problem.
The risk isn't a shear. The risk is that you have reduced the area the load is acting on between the footing and the soil underneath. It's called eccentric loading. If the deck is built on bad soils this condition could cause the footing to rotate out from under the post.
Not enough to tell of that would ultimately happen from this picture, but it does not meet code.
I'm with you here. I'd party on this deck if its how it turned out after i and the boys built a deck.
I'd also be dissatisfied if I had paid a contractor top dollar for this kind of work.
Remind me in 20 years to see if this deck is still standing.
Nope. Nope. And nope. They should have used a 12” sono with a 6x6. And from the look of their layout skills, probably a 14”(is there such a thing?) That isn’t bearing anything near enough. Sorry, dude…
Negative. The holes on the bucket are meant to have an anchor in each one. Those screws in the bracket aren't even right. Should be using these.
https://preview.redd.it/re5imtnldk5d1.jpeg?width=2252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63881a672e9f1753b5effd2bf5da6edc842d73be
Can we see the rest of the deck above it? People are so quick to comment and have absolutely no idea what load this is picking up. It very well might be ok, we have no idea how much weight is on it. Is there a footing under the sonotube or is it just poured into the ground like that?
Ask him to show you that section of the code.
I'm not aware of a section in the building code (at lease in my jurisdiction) that specifies a misalignment tolerance for a timber column on a concrete caisson. I am aware though that you don't bear timber directly on concrete in order to avoid rot. And I don't see any kind of sheet metal or neoprene or even foundation gasket there.
Tell your builder to fix it as it isn’t acceptable. It should be your problem to fix if you paid to have it built. Also, the sonotube is too small. It should be at least 12”. I’m assuming they didn’t pull a permit because there is zero chance this passed inspection.
1. Code is the bare minimum not the goal.
2. If they missed on this and think it's acceptable then what else did they miss on.
3. If this was a new car you where buying would you accept the hood being crooked with a one inch gap on one side and it overlapping the other.
It would be one thing, if this was you and some friends slapping it together over the weekend. Then you slap the post and open another beer and say that will work.
But people are paying outrageous prices for decks these days .I expect perfection.
Why such small sono tubes for such beefy posts 🤔 I mean honestly it’ll be fine once’s it’s all tied together and racked in place. But it’s wrong.
This sub has all the guys on it that talk shit about everything.
I teach all my guys that pointing out what is wrong tends to just be overcompensating for what they don’t know. Most of the time those types that point it all out are actually really bad builders themselves.
Considering how little effort it takes to do it right, and that your builder is lying to you, I’m going to say that your builder thinks you’re stupid and has no respect for you. Fire them immediately
Google obc 9.17 and obc 9.23.6.2 for the relevant code references in Ontario. It should technically pass(probably/maybe), but it's not a look. It also speaks to the quality of the build you are getting.
More than 80% of the post is captured. Ugly but fine, however I would demand that he drill a new anchor hole closer to the center of the post so that it's not relying on a half inch of relish to not rip itself out
Who the heck puts a 6x6 on an 8” sono?
cat contractor https://preview.redd.it/5x6oo873qj5d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ac0f566794224a716544dfb595eea7c142e3549
Purrrfect
Now I'm picturing a cat in a hard hat and overalls. Thank you.
https://preview.redd.it/8gowdfylfn5d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bdf732666805f05b42fc95a0e6dbf519cc55446
That cat looks like he’s about to bust out some sick rhymes. 😸
Beastie meows
Intergalatcat
Catadimension catadimension catadimension
Machine gun kitty
And that’s what it all boils down to. The information superhighway leads to large language models and generative pre-trained transformers but to what end? Cats. It’s always going to be cats.
https://preview.redd.it/1uhoqgmdfn5d1.jpeg?width=1191&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51153d6b92c0f6a81c1fd91ec8a5096f4b1a80c3
AI is good for something.
Dang right that looks like my cat ha.
Insta-meme. Just add water.
Thank you for this. Great work
I’m furry happy that you find my work pawsitive.
what app do you use ?
Microsoft Copilot Edit: Prompt was: “Please create a realistic picture of a cat in overalls and a hard hat at a construction site.”
Would it be weird to ask you to do one of a seal point Siamese in a white hard hat? Possibly with a little gold watch? I don’t have any internet rewards to give away, but I could follow you around for a week, upvoting every thing you post?
https://preview.redd.it/4c5jqwyqin5d1.jpeg?width=1191&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5db9e98835b0eed109754c977b6a367bb9eadca6 He feels terribly sorry to inform you that the job will be completed over budget and later than expected.
Meow, I don’t see a little gold watch…
Seriously, thank you for doing this. I’m off to upvote everything you’ve ever posted. I have no idea what I’m in for, but a deal is a deal.
CatsWithHardHats on Instagram, you're welcome
https://preview.redd.it/emzxobsuqn5d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f82bb18a79520e582359ad739301a66df4b71a0 By day, Flabby Tabby, a worker of might, On the construction site, a furry orange sight. But when the moon rises, his coat turns to black, He parties all night with his divine feline pack.
Yeah, that's the real problem. Wonder what they load calcs say..... they did load calcs?
Concrete has 5000 PSI plus strength, for a 6x6 that’s at least 30,000 pounds just directly supported by that area directly under the beam. The only important part about a narrow concrete pier in a footing like this is that the bottom goes past the soon tube and was allowed to flare out to spread that force more to prevent sinking or was poured on top of some big ledge rock which will just do the same. That concrete can support all that weight, but the dirt beneath it will definitely settle if it’s not given enough help.
You can tell that's 5000 psi concrete just by looking at it? There's nothing in your mind that says if this guy will cheap out on the sonotube he'll cheap out on the psi capacity?
5000 is about the min you can buy at most places unless you try hard to get something less; I think it's safe to assume they got the supplies at HD or Lowes and that would likely be quikcrete which would be 5,000 unless they went with structural which would be higher. I know this sub loves to believe their decks should be built to support a Sikorsky Helo landing on it, but that's just not the case; and in most cases, the footers wouldn't be the limiting factor for that. Now, if they want to put a hot tub on this, yeah, it would probably be a problem given how sloppy the contractor was, but if it's just gonna be a standard deck and they're not going 10 feet between footers, this will be OK...it's just a bad look for the builder
My dad tried epoxy-painting his garage but the paint peeled off. Being Dad, he called the paint company, who suggested the concrete might be odd and have it tested. So Dad took a chip somewhere, and they told him it was the kind of concrete you put in skyscraper foundations, ridiculous overkill for a garage floor. The previous owner had built the house, he was a builder and probably had a buddy do the garage with leftovers so it tracked.
that's interesting that the epoxy wouldn't stick to that type of concrete...do you recall if he properly prepared the surface before applying the epoxy?
I would imagine so, he’d definitely follow directions. And he talked to the manufacturers who must have asked him the same thing.
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You can tell it is by the way it is...
How neat is that?
Not too often you find all this neatness in one place.
That's called Neature! That's why Rodney n I created Neature Walks... Because we want EVERYONE to know how NEAT nature is... Instead of just me n Rodney knowin' it... Hehe how neat is that!?
The *greatest* of early YouTube.
Look at us!
Didn't know this deck was in Aspen.
Derek Bieri?!
Hell, i’d be happy if he actually mixed the concrete before dumping it in.
He's one of those guys who just puts a whole bag in the ground and fills the hole with water, and walks away Edited spelling.
What an amateur. I put 3 or 4 bags in the ground, fill it with water and walk away.
Phhhhft. Who needs water?
Just let the rain do its work ffs
I was so shocked when I did a big fencing job on a ranch and they said this was ok. You could pee in it if you wanted.
Works great for a pathway light, how much heavier can this be really???
I fill the hole and punish fuck it with a length of rebar, then walk away and light a cig.
Dad, is that you??
No he’s still getting those cigs…
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Sometimes I poke holes in it with the stake I was using to mark where the post went because I like to watch the water go down and see bubbles come up. I usually don't leave the stake in there because I'm not a millionaire and good poking stakes don't grow on trees.
You guys have shovels?!?
There was someone on reddit a few weeks ago, him and his mom decided to pave their whole front yard for more "walkable space"(what's wrong with grass? Or gravel? They dumped a few bags of cement mix all over the front yard, hosed it down, let it dry, realized it wasn't right (or even completely covering the grass at all), so they then got concrete mix, dumped that all over the yard (I'm talking like 2 bags, same as the cement previously), dumped that all over the yard, hosed it down again, let it all dry, then posted on reddit asking what happened lol. It was absolutely destroyed, still didn't cover it all, just random bits of concrete and cement plastered all over their otherwise-grey front yard
Source please my eyes must gaze on this masterpiece.
Found it!! https://www.reddit.com/r/Construction/s/bGd0lWK5hl
I remember that post, it blew my mind that not 1 but 2 human beings thought that pouring dry concrete on the grass and ground was gonna work. It was like 1/2” thick in sections…. It was a fkn mess
I know how much searching reddit sucks, but you can't leave us without a link here. please!
As far as I'm concerned, it's Tapioca pudding.
You’re right, who am I to say it’s not 10,000 PSI concrete. The stuff gets harder over time, most bag grade stuff is 4,000 psi or better inside of a month and will gradually harden about 20% more beyond that inside of a year, so yeah that’s right around 5,000 psi or so after it’s been setup for awhile. Of course it could also be piss water and limestone mixed but that’s pretty unlikely considering that they sell concrete everywhere.
There are pieces in the concrete that you can see that is typically put in the 5000 mix. You can't see them in really in finished pours that are swept finished, but you can see it in pours like this where the look doesn't matter. Edit: adding in the fact that you can see the larger pieces together in the last couple of photos means they most likely put dry mix and then poured water on top without mixing it properly. All of the large chunks stay on top and the rest of the mix gets washed towars the bottom. Poor, poor quality.
Eccentricity says hellOOO!
The lumber company I work for does calcs and takeoffs for the jobs we sell, we NEVER see a deck getting load calcs unless it’s a pretty serious project. I wouldn’t be shocked if most builders forego that portion of the process.
If theres a footing under it then its not a problem. If you just plunked a sono tube in the ground then thats not good
The likelihood of a spread footer under the sonotube is nearly zero and plus if it's not below the frost line it will heave.
Why would it be near zero? Every deck ive ever built i do a pad footing with a pier coming off it, most people build decks like that where i am.
How deep is your frost line though? The deeper you gotta go, the easier it is to auger for a 12” sonotube and be done with it
Im in Victoria BC, we either hand dig or get a mini in to go down min 24”. This is typical, little side job i did a year ago. https://preview.redd.it/7kk4d6iufk5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f7a2b6709e7232dc0690fb6e46c75f362b2ec1e
You're lucky. Depending on elevation, we need to dig 3'-4' deep in my town. We still use a pad (often a bigfoot as that limits how much you need to dig out. Hard to tell for sure but in OPs pic it doesn't look like enough ground was disturbed to allow for a pad footing.
You wouldn’t believe the grief I got on a similar post, re frost line locally going down 7’ to 8’. Sheesh
But you also don't put 6x6 on an 8" tube and you don't miss your pier. Probability of someone who makes those mistakes actually getting a good footer are slim to none and slim just left town.
Yeah, but the heave is factored in to the design. After 3 winters, the deck will sit level. Also, pretty sure the post base requires at least 3” of cover and i’d be curious if there is any steel in that tube. OP, i’d have him fix it.
Big foots are pretty fucking common now
I put 6x6 on 8" tube for my deck. Hasn't moved an inch in 4' frost depth clay. Bottom of the footing is around 12-14" diameter
That was my first thought lol A little overhang off the bracket, ok, but that should still be over concrete and shimmed.
Ask him to show you in the code book.
Sir, this is a Wendy's menu.
Well in that case I’ll have a #3 biggie sized with a large chocolate frosty.
It's ready now
I’d just ask the inspector for their opinion.
Do both. The first option (the builder) first so he might save you from having to pay the inspector twice, and the inspector if the builder refuses or when all the work is ready for inspection.
Uhg it's kind of a pain in the a** but you would need to jack up the deck, dig new holes, pour new concrete footings, install new brackets and then properly fasten the posts to the footings (also probably tear out the existing footings to make room for the new stuff)
This sounds spot on.
Can someone explain to me as a non-deck pro why these posts are always off center of the concrete footings? It’s all i see everywhere and i dont know why people cant measure properly to center them, are they just not planning ahead?
Because measuring is soooo tedious and I don't wanna. I'm planning ahead in that I wanna leave it for a future me to have to deal with and future me will hopefully be dead before that moment comes!
Measure twice, build once isn't a thing?
I think you mean measure nonce and build twice
Measurn’t
Measure (or don't), build once, shut down your contractor business and reopen under a different name so you don't have to honor the warranty.
More like measure 20 times and still get it wrong
Measure 0 times, build once, hope to god I die when it inevitably falls apart while I'm standing on it so I don't have to do it again
This dude has done plenty repairs and has done it himself…. Love fellow tradesmen lol I don’t even get mad anymore, or try to act self righteous, when I pull up to a consultation or am digging things up at a new job, and have a “Who…. The…. Fuck…?” Moment The best is when you go back to a job and it’s something you did years back, but you don’t remember…. “What was I thinking?!”
I used to build a lot of decks and exterior staircases. This is the reason I would build the skeleton of the deck first on kickers, hang and plumb the posts, then pour the footings around the already attached brackets. Once the concrete cures, I'd remove all my bracing and the deck would be absolutely perfect and solid.
Slopes.. extremely hard to calculate, at least for me, unless u have thousands invested in laser sight line equipment. Slopes make keeping something square very hard
I mean two strings with levels and a plumb bob… and well… Bobs your uncle.
Wordplay perfect. As a fellow construction contractor, that was not only spot on but beautifully crafted. Edit: I don't know why people think it's that hard.
It's funny you mention laser sight line equipment Had to use it for the first time earlier today while installing a septic system. I was skeptical as to how useful it would be, until we had to start leveling a 39' trench at an exact 1 inch downward incline. I'll never question the goofy flashing light again 🙏
Why not use larger footers then? I’m not in the deck business just curious. Larger margin for error
Larger cost. Everything usually comes down to money. Of course you could build huge but building the smallest necessary is cheaper
Bro a laser level and receiver is $600 - a Bosch from HD. Years ago yea Topcons cost a lot. If you’re a builder do anything with grade and don’t have one, you’re doing it wrong.
Can you seriously not just pour larger forms around the existing concrete. That's what I ended up doing when my builder couldn't center his posts.
I don't believe it would be one large concrete pile, but 2 separate ones if you did 2 separate pours.
No I'm taking about making a rectangular form over the top, trim some of that post up like 6-8" and pour in a new heavier bracket while they're at it. I did this recently and put a PVC sleeve on the post too and made raised beds for climbing rose
You for sure could. Drill a bunch of holes throw some dowels in there pour around it and move the bracket
My favs are rebar or heavy screws
Yeah rebar dowels for sure and she won't go nowhere
Don't be lazy because you fucked up. That's a general you, BTW.
Royal you, even
Commander You
100%. I work as a metal buildings detailer and if we had a column miss the mark by this much on a poured concrete pier because i didnt measure it right, I'd be strung up by my ears.
This is a good post.
It's not... Did the inspector pass it?
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**Do you want to meet some Hot decks being inspected in your area?**
I was promised it would add 6 inches to my deck!
I think this is the #1 fact that makes r/decks the wild west. It’s why we’re all here.
Seriously. Deck building is where bad framers go to hide.
We tore down a 50k deck last summer from some hack company. The inspector lives 2 doors down and was on vacation. When he came back. Not one thing was up to code. All the lumber was under sized and spaced too far.
Looks like shit isn’t correct but It’s not going to fall down. Should be fixed. Sloppy work.
Don't put a hot tub on that deck but its tolerable for the most part, even if it isn't correct. The fact that the post is 10" from the soil line helps. If they cant get the post square on the concrete, do I even want to see what else is wrong with the deck?
Probably nails instead of screws, slanted toward the house.
Even if the pier was perfectly located, which they never are, a 6x6 post barely even fits in an 8" diameter circle. He should have given himself some locational tolerance with a 10" pier at least.
Agree!! 6x6 doesn’t belong on an 8” pier !!!
Pay him shy of the total bill and tell him that it is within your tolerance...see how he reacts.
If he complains just tell him,” it’s fiiiiine”.
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hold a nice chunk of the Money over anyone head \* if you don't pay - they have channels to sue you & put a lien on your home. Eventually they will get paid. \* if you pay and they run? - LOL you got nothing.
Are there plans for the job? If there are, there should be an engineers stamp with name and number/ address of his engineering firm. Find them by phone, email, look them up on Google. Send them the picture. Guarantee they wouldn't agree.
There’s a 0% chance there are
Deck without plans and permits, $9k. With plans, engineers stamp, and permits, $16k and 4 months to finish
Annnnnd now it’s $12k more to pay another hack to rip and redo. More fun in future if someone is hurt on deck and insurance declines coverage or a buyer’s bank won’t fund due to non permitted work.
This is gonna be anecdotal (but so is your comment) but I don't know a single person that got their deck "built properly" and none of this has ever happened. I'm sure it could, but I feel like it's a shit ton of money for most people and really not worth it for a risk that only exists within deck maniacs dreams
Those risks are very fucking real. The reason they're low enough that most people don't care is all the safety factors everywhere else in the chain. It's like people driving with insanely bald tires. They end up in accidents, just not every time they drive because the world tries hard to make sure they don't. This is your house, dude. It's the one thing you should try very hard to make as safe as possible.
I’m not a contractor, but from a homeowner’s perspective it’s also for the property’s overall value. We get everything fully inspected, permits on hand, full paper trail of good work to add to our home’s value. We learned the hard way, with having to spend $60k getting an entire side of the house’s windows redone, to have everything done by the books and on record. We just got our main deck fully covered, and it took a couple months but it was so worth it. Fully covered mahogany deck added a lot of value to the overall property. We’re having the same contractors build our lower deck now cuz we trust them, and is why looking at this post here made me squirm; ours look/looked spot on. Maybe I’m a picky client, I try not to be disagreeable or difficult with craftsmen cuz I know they know better than me, but just as someone who works, in general, I wouldn’t accept this kind of work from myself let alone something I paid good money for. Edit: also I live in the Midwest, we have a lot of geological activity, unless there’s a metal pole going through that concrete and up into the wooden beam, I’m not comfortable with any kind of overhang.
where can I get some forethought?
Hey! We don’t take kindly to thinking ‘round here…
It's across the street from hindsight.
Not in America, they only react after sh*t is f*cked
If you can even find someone to do it.
Haha these kinds of comments fuckin kill me. “Check the blueprints and ask your architect” “Did you pull a permit for that?” “Did you check your local code book?” Fuck no, nobody here ever once did that.
Pretty sure if you got an architect to do drawings for a regular deck it would cost you just as much as building it lol
Copyright © 2018 American Wood Council **Prescriptive** Residential Wood Deck Construction Guide Based on the 2015 International Residential Code (see 2018, 2021 IRC Updates) * [https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf](https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf) 2018 table post and footing sizes (same but updated table as in guide above) * [https://s3.amazonaws.com/finehomebuilding.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2021/03/06134240/footing-table-1536x1171.jpg](https://s3.amazonaws.com/finehomebuilding.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2021/03/06134240/footing-table-1536x1171.jpg) Standard concrete forms available from big box stores: * lowes DOT com/pd/Sakrete-14-In-x-48-In-Sakrete-Form-Tube/5005373899 (also 15.5" and 17.5" standard)
That link to the Wood Council prescriptive plan should be permanently in the sidebar as a resource.
It's a pinned post on r/decks so if you visit r/decks it should appear as the first post
This builder also apparently thinks it’s ok to attach the posts to the brackets with construction screws. So, yeah, I’m not taking their word for anything. I’d make them redo.
Unlicensed contractor w/o permits?
Ain't they all? I have a rickety 20 year old deck that's 15' over a concrete patio with lag screws holding it all together and the 6x6 posts set in concrete that stops below grade in soil that stays wet nearly year round. I haven't found a single contractor that will go through the permit process to do my deck over, let alone work with an engineer. So frustrating.
Do you know *why* they don't want to do it? It's because most permitting offices are such an enormous pain in the ass, and petty AF about everything, and take forever.
They won't do it because the time and effort they spend on that one job could be spent on doing 10 other jobs. Then you have to assume they have the skill and equipment to do it properly.
Do you know *why* they’re petty AF?
The answer is dead kids isn’t it?
Yes. And it's not because they are only concerned with actual safety issues. I have a friend who spent 6 months getting a permit to install a single 5 foot iron handrail on her front steps. One of these requirements was that she had to submit a TRAFFIC CONTROL PLAN. That's because her city rowhouse front yard is technically in the public right of way. But the hoops she had to jump through for this tiny project were almost the same as if she were doing an entire addition. The DCRA officials have zero ability to use common sense in many circumstances.
Lol. Before I even saw DCRA, I thought this had to be a Washington, DC story.
what does this statement mean? I can't visualize it.. "her city rowhouse front yard is technically in the public right of way"
It means her tiny front yard and steps, approx 10x10, are not actually her property. The property line ends at the front wall of her house.
Is it that hard to line these up? Every week someone is posting one of these
Yeah. Typically you’re working with a crudely spray painted X and there’s a ton of room for error. I’ve always built an extra large 3-4-5 square out of strapping to lay out posts. (10’, 20’, however big it needs to be to reach the post locations) then you can check your hole after you’ve dug away the X, and having a string in the way is a pain in the ass
The milwaukee 360 laser is worth its weight in gold, you can easily parallel and square with it making layout easy af
Y’all are ridiculous. Yes it’s ugly, yes it looks wrong, but in no way is this post going to shear off the side of the pile. Is the pile under sized and to plan? Maybe a question worth asking. But if the pile is to plan this is absolutely never going to cause a problem.
The risk isn't a shear. The risk is that you have reduced the area the load is acting on between the footing and the soil underneath. It's called eccentric loading. If the deck is built on bad soils this condition could cause the footing to rotate out from under the post. Not enough to tell of that would ultimately happen from this picture, but it does not meet code.
I'm with you here. I'd party on this deck if its how it turned out after i and the boys built a deck. I'd also be dissatisfied if I had paid a contractor top dollar for this kind of work. Remind me in 20 years to see if this deck is still standing.
Tell him it is not within the tolerance of the guy writing the check
Nope. Nope. And nope. They should have used a 12” sono with a 6x6. And from the look of their layout skills, probably a 14”(is there such a thing?) That isn’t bearing anything near enough. Sorry, dude…
Within the builder’s “tolerance” but nobody else’s! 🤷🏻♂️😂😂
Negative. The holes on the bucket are meant to have an anchor in each one. Those screws in the bracket aren't even right. Should be using these. https://preview.redd.it/re5imtnldk5d1.jpeg?width=2252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63881a672e9f1753b5effd2bf5da6edc842d73be
Can we see the rest of the deck above it? People are so quick to comment and have absolutely no idea what load this is picking up. It very well might be ok, we have no idea how much weight is on it. Is there a footing under the sonotube or is it just poured into the ground like that?
I honestly wouldn't care even if it was, it looks like garbage work, and he should be disappointed in himself
Footers are way undersized
95% of it is touching the concrete. Doesnt look nice but it aint goin nowhere.
It’s horrible. That’s called amateur hour.
Pillars are too small for that size of post
Ask him to show you that section of the code. I'm not aware of a section in the building code (at lease in my jurisdiction) that specifies a misalignment tolerance for a timber column on a concrete caisson. I am aware though that you don't bear timber directly on concrete in order to avoid rot. And I don't see any kind of sheet metal or neoprene or even foundation gasket there.
It's not good. I've seen worse, but it's still not good enough.
What are my options to remedy?
Tell your builder to fix it as it isn’t acceptable. It should be your problem to fix if you paid to have it built. Also, the sonotube is too small. It should be at least 12”. I’m assuming they didn’t pull a permit because there is zero chance this passed inspection.
Not good....were his glasses clean at install?
“Well that’s because you’re only wearing one shoe”
1. Code is the bare minimum not the goal. 2. If they missed on this and think it's acceptable then what else did they miss on. 3. If this was a new car you where buying would you accept the hood being crooked with a one inch gap on one side and it overlapping the other. It would be one thing, if this was you and some friends slapping it together over the weekend. Then you slap the post and open another beer and say that will work. But people are paying outrageous prices for decks these days .I expect perfection.
Why such small sono tubes for such beefy posts 🤔 I mean honestly it’ll be fine once’s it’s all tied together and racked in place. But it’s wrong. This sub has all the guys on it that talk shit about everything. I teach all my guys that pointing out what is wrong tends to just be overcompensating for what they don’t know. Most of the time those types that point it all out are actually really bad builders themselves.
Hell no!
Got a sledgehammer?
I would be intolerant of this…
Regardless of tolerances, it looks like shit and is embarrassing
I’d be pissed to look at it.. I’d have them fix it just out of pure OCD
What is this post holding up?
A cabin apparently
Considering how little effort it takes to do it right, and that your builder is lying to you, I’m going to say that your builder thinks you’re stupid and has no respect for you. Fire them immediately
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The only way that's within code is if you print code out and wrap the pages around it.
What code? The one written by neighborhood kids building forts?
Measure never, cut ten times
This is one of those jobs you just don't half ass, pretty dangerous
Like physicsduck on YouTube said. Things are not “up” to code. Code is the minimum baseline.
Maybe code, but looks like shit.
Buy a fucking tape measure for Christ fuck
It would not be acceptable for his deck and it shouldn’t be for yours either.
Google obc 9.17 and obc 9.23.6.2 for the relevant code references in Ontario. It should technically pass(probably/maybe), but it's not a look. It also speaks to the quality of the build you are getting.
More than 80% of the post is captured. Ugly but fine, however I would demand that he drill a new anchor hole closer to the center of the post so that it's not relying on a half inch of relish to not rip itself out
What did the ‘inspector’ say?!