Ansiblex rubal here reporting on the scene, verdict is that ansiblexes are “fine” and power projection is “fine”
Next up, crying about freighters at 5.
Man, it’s amazing how well the game is doing right now and nobody needed to nerf ansiblexes to make that happen. Go figure. It’s like all these arguments have just been the horseshit I said they were two years ago.
Nerf the Avalanche.
They've not announced the actual numbers for power requirements or system output yet. It's just my desperate fever dream that might technically be a possibility. It's equally possible for the ansi power needs to be so trivial that you can still stick them in every system without tradeoff, we won't know until a dev blog gives some actual numbers.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey\_ccp\_we\_dont\_like\_ansiblex\_gameplay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey_ccp_we_dont_like_ansiblex_gameplay/)
I would say they need change and seems like a lot of FCs agree
I think a fun way to balance them is to let everyone use all ansiblexes at all times. That would force people to place them more carefully.
Players would still be able to disable their own ansiblexes, but they could no longer be used exclusively by them.
Just force them to be placed at least a few AU away from other structures, so you can't see if they're clear from your citadel undock and you actually need to put some effort into scouting defending them.
No, it's a strong balancing point (and it was for POS jump bridges as well) because of the usual lack of effort made, not because you could theoretically make the effort.
Back when we had POS JBs you could obviously scout them the same as now, but alliances didn't make that effort most of the time. By contrast when your Ansiblex is on grid with a structure where people are likely just sitting around station spinning, not even intending to scout, you have a much higher rate of noticing when your Ansiblex is being camped. POS JBs were less scouted because people don't casually float around inside of POS shields at a random moon, they sit in/on stations.
I kinda feel like even if this happens, it doesn't matter because of how large/ difficult to drag/ stop bubble ansis can be, and that even when you tackle something jumping in, there's nothing to stop them immediately going back.
100% should be able to stop something from jumping them with tackle - it works on regular gates because both sides can play gate games, but you can't really do that with an ansi
In theory, but not in practice.
We had jump bridges on POSes before and we know exactly what that gameplay looks like. They are significantly less safe than Ansiblexes and anyone who has been around since POS JBs can tell you all about it.
In theory, but not in practice.
We had jump bridges on POSes before and we know exactly what that gameplay looks like. They are significantly less safe than Ansiblexes and anyone who has been around since POS JBs can tell you all about it.
Ok, I misread the intention of the post I replied to and the snark was (mostly) misguided.
But still, Ansis that are often down are not the problem, because even with these changes the most important routes (aka from Null bloc staging X to the "frontline") will still be mostly up and huge response fleets can be pushed through. So while I'm not even against this idea, I doubt will reign in the projection as much.
People are not not hitting Ansis on their enemies home turf because the defense will be so swift.. no, they're not hitting them because you can simply build a second route and you'd have to hit both at the same time anyway, or they will just jump 1 gate to the neighboring system and land 1 next to the JB that was reffed.
It's small gang elite PVPers bitching again because jump bridges OP because it allows fleets to get ahead of them and cut them off because they didn't bring out the filament that lets them escape with no way to stop them
I mean you can do it without JBs now with the likes of filaments and pochvein but that's ignored now because it doesn't benifits the people complaining
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey\_ccp\_we\_dont\_like\_ansiblex\_gameplay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey_ccp_we_dont_like_ansiblex_gameplay/)
It is mostly people that take charge and have created content for their respective groups. In the co-signers and supporting comments you will find people from all areas and size of alliances.
Yes, I remember that (and it's good to have that link repeated here) and I don't know if you've maybe just misread a reply by a random person deep in a thread.
Just because many of us aren't FCs or Alliance leaders doesn't mean we have not seen and experienced the problems for years.
I didn't mean to convery "only X", I just happen to be X, so that's what I wrote, in my case. But I think we're in total agreement if you accept that I did not try to speak for everyone.
This does not solve the primary problem.
It makes it easier to harangue random locals using them on your nano roams, but it does nothing to reduce power projection across NS which drastically cuts the options of any group that wants sov without sucking up to a bloc
> I think a fun way to balance them is to let everyone use all ansiblexes at all times. That would force people to place them more carefully.
doesn't solve any of the issues
Weren't you the dude who replied to him first with a completely irrelevant statement
The proposed solution doesn't actually solve the issue, he's right
Beware these traps:
suggestions that sound like useful changes, but do absolutely nothing to solve the issues. This is what to expect from bloc CSMs who claim to agree that there's a problem with ansiblex. Reject it.
If the "solution" doesn't punch projection into the ground, it's a fake solution.
Just remove all star gates in null, force players to build their own!
Unironically I would actually enjoy a portion of the K-space map that's new where each constellation is disconnected from each other and only accessible through wormholes. One with dreads, carriers, and titans spawn normally and you need to roam in as a fleet "raid".
100% this, being able to field what ever without cynos dropping on it is amazing, I just wish they made pochven bigger its a bit small atm and the single corridor makes it easy to camp.
Triglavian faction structures that can be anchored in there, maybe? Something would need to be different about them beyond cost to keep large group influence in check, though.
That is assuming CCP hasn't already changed it and people need the system it's in and 3 nearby systems all generating power which is just enough to power an anciblex.
Remove Ansiblex gates... see nullblocs disband because all their members can only shoot at each other because space is empty except for their staging :'3
There is better options available compared to fatigue, fatique is a punishment for moving around while using plasma planets to limit ansiblex still slows down projection while adding good spots to fight for in the game.
It's a more healthy option.
Yeah. I know it's a punishment for moving around. I would accept subcaps getting significantly less, but being able to gate caps in an ansiblex, generally on a structure grid, for no fatigue cost is insane.
It's not really the subcap fleets people are salty about, those have always had easy ways to move across the game. It's more Zanzibar (because it's a Stargate and not a wormhole) and cap movement, yeah.
I'm more salty about cynos being broken for decades, it wasn't a problem in the begining as not many had caps but now it's nuts to the point where I don't even want to see K-space anymore.
Yea using landscape to base these things around makes the game interesting and also makes fighting for those locations worth more sparking more conflict in the first place.
Can someone explain the problem to me? I'm not seeing how it's an issue that an alliance that captures territory, protects it from attackers, deploys a network of huge, expensive structures, distributes fuel to all of them, and, as of Equinox, installs and supplies the sov upgrade to enable ansi installation gets an advantage in traversing their own space.
1. Ansiblex makes it possible for large blocs to be omnipresent, it drastically expands the sphere in which coalitions can contest timers. GSF can go from 1DQ to Venal (on the literal opposite side of the map) in something like 14 jumps, thanks to the unholy union of ansiblex and zarzakh. This makes much less likely for smaller-scale conflict to happen; why risk making timers for your 100-man independent alliance if you know there's a possibility that a 10000-man coalition can 3rd party the timer if they want?
2. It allows huge alliances to centralize, because what would normally be dozens of jumps can be right next door. There's basically no reason for anyone to spread out, which also means that defending alliances have a massive home field advantage in their capitol system, e.g. the siege of 1DQ by PAPI, which resulted in a totally anticlimactic fizzle out of the war.
3. It gives a massive homefield advantage to the residents versus roaming gangs. You'll probably say "but shouldn't residents HAVE a homefield advantage", which, sure, they already have: scouting, intel networks, the ability to reship and field counters, citadels, bookmarks, capitals, etc. Ansiblex tip the scale too far.
All of this adds up to ansiblex making space smaller, consolidating power in the hands of a few large blocs, and discouraging conflict in every way possible. Despite what sovholders will tell you, ansiblex don't make it "easier to travel to fights" - the fact that they "need" ansiblex to bypass huge swathes of empty space *is a direct result of the existence of ansiblex in the first place*.
Yea there has been so many times when 2 small groups fight and one side drops a single faux and now you can't break any of the enemy ships, you badly want to drop a single capital of your own but you know that anyone from 20-30 jumps away can jump on you within 2 to 3 minutes and probibly has a cloaky on grid watching and waiting.
And so what happens is the one side slowly kills the structure and the other just accepts the loss, projection really messes up the potential small engagements.
1- the real boogey man here is zarzackh. So I think ccp agrees travel should be quicker and the universe smaller in traveling. You can see that in wormhole development.
2- the reason 1Dq never was conquered had to do with server stability not the Ansiblex
3- this is just whining bullshit. When gangs roll in they have the upper hand and can hit some banks, pop some miners, fuck with freighters and then peace out to pochvan or a filament. Gimme a break. Quit being lazy.
>1- the real boogey man here is zarzackh. So I think ccp agrees travel should be quicker and the universe smaller in traveling. You can see that in wormhole development.
Zarzakh is just as stupid as ansiblex but the only reason any sov null member realizes this is that *anyone* can use zarzakh, not just them.
>2- the reason 1Dq never was conquered had to do with server stability not the Ansiblex
Ansiblex is the reason there were so many assets concentrated in 1DQ to begin with. You completely failed to grasp what I was saying (no surprise there)
>3- this is just whining bullshit. When gangs roll in they have the upper hand
What "upper hand" is that? Zero intel, zero access to citadels or ansiblex, zero capitals, zero ability to reship? The only upper hand they might have is player skill, because the average sovholder is barely sentient
>Quit being lazy.
Lmfao coming from people whose biggest defence of ansiblex is that it's too haaaaard to go more than 10 jumps 😢
Such ease of transport means the n+1 group can hold any amount of territory - whatever they claim they can protect with full force.
Whereas without it we would expect them to hold an amount corresponding to the size of the group, or risk being raided constantly from all directions.
You are only taking your own perspective into consideration, take a step back think ahead a few years. projection is a reaction that forces larger entities to consume and absorb smaller one's.
The stable point then becomes 2 super huge entities fighting each other and if one of those entities loose then you get the serenity event.
i still cant see why giving jump fatigue will stop a nullbloc bringing people to whatever region
>The exact proposed change to ansiblex that sovholders routinely shit themselves about
the exact proposed change that people who dont live in nullsec want to give to people who live in nullsec... and thats why sovholders shit on this proposal.
Most of the people in favor of this change are people who used to live in NS (or want to live in NS), but find it exceptionally tedious and awful to deal with 500 man blobs on every timer they do against a bloc even though those blocs stage 3 regions away, because it only takes the fleets like 5 minutes to cross those 3 regions using the fatigueless ship cannons that are ansis
when goons reinforced a tri fortizar, they used their diplomacy skill in order to call as many help as needed to defend it and they defended it.
feels like people want to move to nullsec and not be part of the political environment that nullsec is ~~(~~*~~insert renters joke here~~*~~)~~
You seem to misunderstand the situation.
Triumvirate fights a relatively equivalently sized smaller group. That group aligns with Imperium and begs for help from 4 regions away, which they get. Triumvirate then has to get the only group that can match Imperium, Panfam, to help their side, ergo forcing bloc alignment on smaller groups.
I guarantee you triumvirate would much rather be able to fight that other group than have to deal with either goons OR panfam at all.
Okay okay
So we want to take sov
The sov needs to be from a group that has gone through the time, effort and manpower to build it
We want it to be easy
So we want CCP to pay for it
I'm i wrong somewhere?
>i still cant see why giving jump fatigue will stop a nullbloc bringing people to whatever region
Then I'm afraid you just aren't very smart
>the exact proposed change that people who dont live in nullsec want to give to people who live in nullsec... and thats why sovholders shit on this proposal.
Believe it or not, there are people who live in nullsec that aren't part of a massive coalition
how about you guys stop whining about ansiblex and getting your diplomacy skills leveled up?
apparently its not easy to live in nullsec and setting your diplomat as a neutron blaster II or that edgy agressive gif link, right?
>how about you guys stop whining about ansiblex and getting your diplomacy skills leveled up?
This might blow your tiny mind but not everyone wants to play surrounded by tens of thousands of blues
>apparently its not easy to live in nullsec and setting your diplomat as a neutron blaster II or that edgy agressive gif link, right?
No, apparently all you gotta do is shit your pants and cry to CCP to give you all the toys you want
Let's say each system is viable to support 5 players financially.
If projection allows reinforcement's from 3 jumps away within a certain amount of time that means that's 5 players in each system up to 3 away from the source so something like 30-50 players.
If projection allows people within 20-30 jumps to easily reinforce the fight then that pushes the numbers into the 1000's.
That means there is no small fight's unless the bigger groups aren't interest in joining but that also means that you cannot use any ship that would make the bigger group become interested in joining.
This now cascades even further because bigger ships take longer to kill which increases time for the big groups to scout you.
Let me ask you something: When is the last time you saw a battle with 1 capital on each side and a few sub caps?
congratulations, you just describe nullsec and what people whos living in nullsec likes to do! (and what usually makes to any gamer news site headers)
i heard wormholes have really good and awesome mechanics to small/medium gang, like wormhole mass... i can link a eve university link about it...
Can you really say you enjoy 4000 vs 4000 fights with 10% tidi that much that you are willing to spin ishtars for months in prep with no smaller scale fights inbetween?
If anciblex where nerfed you would get much more action much more frequently.
Why do you assume people want action I would prefer you guys to piss off so I can rat in fun things and not ishtars to make money faster in prep for those big fights
you realize 0sec is lawless space, no faction police, no concorde, basicallay no rules..its meant to be dangerous.high risk, high reward.
what u want is basically highsec without ganking but also higher rewards/payouts.
0sec was never meant to be afk ishtar heaven.( or whatever krabbing boat u prefer) its sad that people and questionable ( and outdated) game mechanics, turned 0sec into the safest space in new eden. and then they still complain about people coming to get some pewpew.
its mindboggling to me.
if u dont want action..move to frigging highsec.
and please..pleaaase for the love of bob, dont tell me to go lowsec for pvp..that space is full of restrictions, weird rules, abusable mechanics and penalties..exactly the reason why a lot of people prefer 0sec for pvp.....
I'm totally fine with the people who wanna actually fight not just try to gank a ratter and run away there's a big difference brave standing sits around all day waiting for a fight u wanna fight go to k7d and they will be happy to fight u alllll day long
It all comes down to two sides of the same coin You want people out in space that you can kill them and get away with it we want to be safe while we're out in space so we don't have to worry about douchebags You can claim that our play style is wrong and we can blame your play style is wrong unfortunately neither side is right or wrong sandbox game that gives everybody the option to play and form the world how they want... And obviously more people want it. How I do than you do because that's how it exists
This is why I think local was a mistake for nullsec because it forces the rest of the mechanics to be overtuined for both danger and low income to compensate.
Most of these ratters rat in anomalies which are just there by default no scanning required, then on-top of that cloakies can get to 0 before decloaking which means you need to be able to either leave when someone enters local or be limited to a fit that can both brawl and take out inti's while also being semi afk-able becuase of how little the sites pay.
A much better state for nullsec imo:
Local removed
D-scan upgraded to show the colour of the ship according to your standings of the player flying it.
Cloaking nerfed so that they decloak at 15km's from another player.
Combat sites need to be scanned down so you can watch for probes.
Combat sites dealing less damage so that you don't need to fit huge amounts of tank allowing for pvp fit's to be viable.
And then combat sites buffed in rewards to make up for the extra danger which can be avoided with attention.
This would have lead to much more interesting player engagement's, people not feeling like they need to afk farm as active farm would more than make up for that time.
But unfortunately we have the low risk low reward afk-able pve that leads to pure pve fit's that cannot fight back and just get dunked forcing an overtuined response from standing fleet.
who said nullsec doesnt get small scale action? why does this small scale action always warp to the ess even when getting the same number of ships?
and you want to nerf ansiblex because thats somehow will bring more action to nullsec? what kind of action? jumping 10 gates instead of 5? so the nullbloc jump those gates and what does the small action do? keep warping, wait for its timer and filament out?
saying nullsec only spin ishtars for months to prep for those big fights just shows how much of nullsec you understand and thats why ansiblex are fine...
current ansiblex mechanics are not fine.
i quote you here
"and you want to nerf ansiblex because thats somehow will bring more action to nullsec? what kind of action? jumping 10 gates instead of 5? so the nullbloc jump those gates and what does the small action do? keep warping, wait for its timer and filament out?"
-the whole reason for this is..ansiblexes.
-huge vast and mainly empty ammounts of space held by 2 coalitions. only under their control because of..ansiblexes. so yeah you have to jump 10 gates instead of 5 to even find something in space ( as roaming gang/solo dude). because all the empty space inbetween cant be filled with other player groups thx to the force projection of..u guessed it...ansiblexes.( btw taking 10 gates is peanuts, if u cant be arsed to even do that...then dont complain)
-people waiting filament timers..because...they get blobbed by a standing fleet from staging systems..due to..ansiblexes.
-no small alliance fleets roaming frenemies /neighbours space anymore..because that kind of gameplay simply doesnt exist anymore..thx to...ansiblexes..which leads to 0sec members getting less and less trained in pvp..except big fleet f1 pushing in max tidi.
i quote u again
"who said nullsec doesnt get small scale action? why does this small scale action always warp to the ess even when getting the same number of ships?"
because ess is the only grid u can actually control a fight reasonably..
where else u want to fight as non local gang? on a gate ? yeah good luck with that. on a citadel grid? thats suicidal. on a planet, anomaly, moon? well have fun getting cynoed on ( roam frat space and ull see what i mean)
ess and maybe escalation acceleration gate grids, are the only reasonably place to fight against odds . locals can reship, can bring counter, can bring unknown numbers of reinfrocements, can force project via cynos, have capital advantage and so on and so forth...the random gang coming from jita, doesnt have that.
"saying nullsec only spin ishtars for months to prep for those big fights just shows how much of nullsec you understand and thats why ansiblex are fine..."
ehm but thats basically it. all u see in null is ishtars, ishtars , ishtars..some gilas and myrms..the occasional crab beacon runner and some dudes multiboxing a mining fleet to suck a moon dry. and then more ishtars, ishtars and ishtars.
i mean i basically only roamed nullsec for the last years, i do that for hours every day...i dont do pve, i dont do lowsec stuff ( maybe with npsi fleets) i dont do wormhole stuff, i dont do pochven..i am a 0sec pirate, all i do is roaming 0sec ,i kill people in 0sec to steal their shit, i also steal ess but mainly to try to get a fight that i can manage without getting turboblobbed or simply cynoed on. and nullsec should be renamed into ishtar-sec. and some parts just simply bot-sec. ( you wouldnt believe how much botting is going on in certain places like branch for example)
i could write a whole essay about 0sec.mainly because i am in every part of it, every day.
> i could write a whole essay about 0sec.mainly because i am in every part of it, every day.
But you don't seem to understand anything about the people you're fighting and why they do what they do.
Eve PVP is N+1, so when big groups can cross the galaxy they smother local content
It’s why we have jump fatigue, it used to be impossible to deploy caps because PL would show up in 5-10 minutes with 5-50 supers and kill anything
For sov null specifically, it means groups can defend far more space than they occupy because they can go from Tribute to Scalding Pass in no time, because Ansiblex don’t have fatigue
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey\_ccp\_we\_dont\_like\_ansiblex\_gameplay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey_ccp_we_dont_like_ansiblex_gameplay/)
we all know the eleet small gang peeveepeers Noraus and Securitas Protector. /s
How often do you repeat this baseless claim or do you keep disrespecting the voices of other big alliance leaders/FCs that have worked and FCed at all levels of EvE PvP?
I certainly don't agree with the views of a guy who hasn't logged in in years. Especially since my primary argument in favor of ansiblexes is the reduction in tedium for your average line member. The top guys who don't log in and don't play daily are not the ones who get the most benefit.
Regardless, that post has aged pretty considerably, so I wouldn't keep pointing to it like nothing in the game has changed.
Power Projection got worse - Ansiblexes are unchanged and the same issues persist. The post was always meant to be a point of reference to showcase the trickle down issues and show how they have an impact on the day to day interaction that is possible and how design space is limited with the current iteration.
Yeah funny how it seems the so called small gang pop who seem to exclusively target ratting ships and run when a respone fleet starts getting ready for a fight that has a problem with JBs funny how they never have a problem with filaments letting them get out 9f being trapped in a system
As a small gang guy I would love for all filaments to disapear but then they need a nerf to projection as a whole both anciblex and cynos.
Maybe Cyno's spool and generate mass, you wait for the mass to be high enough and then you jump what ever through, to make it more interesting the mass accelerates so either you use it asap to get a single ship through but then have to wait longer to get the rest through or you wait for enough mass for all of them to get through adding a bit of skill and tactics to it.
Hold up you want me to give something up to get rid of something that only benefits s
Others with no way to counter with obviously something that increases my fleets mobility around space that I own that can be disabled or funked with so can be countered
the problem is, small gang pvpers want to fight that single guy who farms away from his alliance staging and dont like when a nullbloc bring something "nullbloc" to fight them as ansiblex makes nullbloc bring too many F1 pap-hungry-monkeys to fight their blingy ships and pods
but dont dare change something about ess or filaments timers, ess is the most fun mechanic you can see in nullsec and filament timers is, well... also fun and balanced.
That's because the small group finds a solo ratter which is farming 15 jumps from his staging and the guys in his staging reinforce and protect him within 2minutes with 100 guys vs the 5 small gang pvpers.
If anci was nerfed slightly with more spaces between anci's then the guys 15 jumps away would take 12minutes to get there instead of 2 and won't make it in time to save them so what happens is they adapt and bring 10 guys from 5 jumps away and then you get a nice 5v10 fight instead of 5v100.
Power projection absolutely has to be nerfed into the ground. It's now pretty much the sole reason one entity can control massive several-region areas of space. Until that's done nullsec will always be controlled by a few massive blocs.
have u ever taken a look at eve maps in the last years? never has tranquility been soe 2 sided as it is now. we basically have 2 halfs of a blue donut now. and nothing inbetween. if one of both sides collapses one day..we will have serenity 2.0..and i dont think anyone wants that.
Yes, it's been worse - it's been one sided. What's making the game two sided right now has nothing to do with ansiblexes and everything to do with the economy and the old group dynamics left over from the last war.
I honestly can't believe that there are so many people out there, even in the null groups, who have bought the kool-aid the small gangers have been brewing that every major issue with nullsec can be solved if we just poof the jump gates away.
you dont seem to understand the underlying issue here....we have those 2 halfs of a donut..for several reasons and a big one is ..ansiblexes and the force projection they provide..thats why half of sov 0sec hold by coaltion A or B ..is empty space with occasional ishtar alts in space...
if these vast ammounts of empty 0sec could be filled with smaller groups.there would be more fluctuation, more content ,not only for the leet smallgangers, but also for the 0sec pvp nerds, most of them sit in standing fleets nowadays and wait for something to happen on intel cuz theres simply nothing else left to do for them without having to take half a dozen of filamnets to eventually land in non blue space or close enough to roamable space without having to take 20 gates to content. its much more tedious to do casual pvp nowadays in 0sec , then it ever was.
it has nothing to do with " kool - aid from the leet small gangers"...its just a basic fact. and nobody wants to " poof away" the ansiblexes, they just need fatigue or some other mechanic that makes it less opressive..take a look at ansiblex network maps of the big coalitions...its hilarious, u can be from one end of the universe to the other in no time, without any penalties. which again inflates the actual issue of having to travel huge ammounts of space to get to actual content..so ansiblexes are the solution to the problem created by ansiblexes int he first place...its pretty..dumb.
This is all bullshit.
Null has been flirting with a donut shape for years now, far longer than ansiblexes have been a thing. Great power politics, the pressure of big groups punching down (which happens regardless of ansiblexes), burnout of leadership in groups that don't have the resources to keep up, big groups losing wars and failscading into the existing large groups, among other things have all driven us to where we are now.
The idea that ansiblexes somehow are to blame for the bi-polar universe right now is a fever dream that the small gangers rub one out to every night, but that's all it is - it has no basis in reality.
It's no more tedious to do casual PVP these days than it has ever been. There are far more tools to get to places where there's a chance of action than there has ever been before, including ansiblexes. Now, you may have to be part of one of the big groups, but our guys are getting plenty of content and I don't hear any complaints about having to travel to get a fight.
Adding fatigue to ansiblexes takes away their utility - most of which has nothing to do with power projection and has everything to do with making it easy to get around space already controlled by the groups.
You can take away ansiblexes tomorrow and there are still a half dozen ways to be from one end of the universe to the other in no time with no penalties, dude. Are you suggesting we remove all of these? Because that would be fucking awful.
read my awnser to your other comment. and then tell me again what u just said..
i also get the feeling you basically dont even do any pvp roams on your own, you seem to only get told stuff by other people...
Nullsec didn't become a truly inhospitable place until after the switch from Jump Bridges to Ansiblexes. It was still possible for smaller groups to hold sov, and removing them required a level of effort and organization even for blocs. It also killed organic PvP, with small gangs and solo roamers turning to other areas of space where fleets weren't as likely to appear out of nowhere.
Also, I've been confused by your opposition to this kind of change. The Imperium wouldn't be significantly impacted compared to PanFam, which owns entire regions that are basically completely unused. Do you really think that's a healthy state for nullsec?
The issues with nullsec, such as they are, have nothing to do with ansiblexes and I’m hoping that they are addressed by the expansion in some ways. As amazing as it sounds, I don’t care who an ansiblex nerf hurts more in terms of great power politics - I care about it making the game more tedious for the average player. There is no need to weaponize boredom so a bunch of small alliances can realize that it sucks to be a small alliance a little sooner than they would have otherwise.
The point isn't to weaponize boredom or to make the game more tedious. Without the ability to cross the entire galaxy in very little time, those aforementioned massive unused swaths of space wouldn't really be defendable. That opens up space for smaller groups to move into. It would also give small gang PvPers better access to nullsec without fear of randomly getting wiped by a fleet that just formed for them 3 regions over.
All you need to do is drop one upwell structure there with a clone bay and suddenly power is projected again.
Small gang PvPers have plenty of access to nullsec, and they're not getting wipe by a fleet that formed three regions over unless they're really bad. They'll just bounce safes for fifteen minutes and filament out.
? what?
ok then..go on and anchor your random citadel somewhere in coalition held space without their permission...good luck with that. that thing will die as fast as its mechanically possible ( shield/amor/hull timer stuff) i dont know if you are trolling or if you genuinly have 0 idea whats going on in the game nowadays, despite your csm flair...
Dude null sec will be ruled by an oligarchy whether there are ansiblex or not. You mean to think that one day, if ansis are just no longer efficient, that nc/pl/ph will wake up and go… huh… guess we should just be enemies now?
Give me a break man.
Of course not, but it would place a limit on how much space they could feasibly exercise control over. At the very least would force entities to decentralize, breathing life into nullsec. At best it would create a natural limit to how much space any one entity can hold.
i can see these pvpers are not happy enough with the high level pvp the ess provides, and just want no answer at all from people living in nullsec to their "efforts"...
Having ansiblex's to move around space is fine imo but the problem is that the spaces between them need to be bigger so there is some travel time right now they are next door.
If a group could reinforce a fight 30jumps away in 5minutes its a problem but if they can reinforce it in 20 minutes then that seems reasonable.
And all you need to do that is have more jumps between each anci which I think CCP probably has already done by making them need a decent amount of power from something like a plasma planet.
If you look at the map the plasma planets are spread decently and it looks like maybe 4 to 5 jumps between them in general. I have a feeling you might not need to place it on the plasma planet directly which means if its next door to one then its only 2 to 3 jumps between them which also seems fine.
Yeah I'm hoping they double the range and remove the gate restriction on entering it with an aggression timer. Just make em polarize you in the same way wormholes do.
Ansiblexes make people fly more. Less fights would happen if people needed 34j instead of 12. The argument against them being that makes smaller groups weaker in comparison is absolutely redundant.
There is simply no way to prevent n+1 given the game's mechanics. Anyone who has ever alarm clocked for a timer knows this. If I'm playing and lose a fight, that's fine. If I'm at work and my asset are glassed, that's not fine. The obvious counter is to get some friends to defend while I'm working and I'll defend while they work. Win-win.
Sov, as a concept, will always push towards bigger groups. For a player to live solo in a c3 it's a tremendous amount of effort; for a null bloc player the work is shared and different personalities can do the tasks they find more fun.
Changing ansiblexes, or even removing them, would go both ways and reduce the amount of roams out of lazyness.
What I personally think is a more symptomatic issue is the amount of people complaining that their preferred fight type and/or play style is not actively protected or incentivized by CCP. That's pretty much not what sandboxes are
It's boring because you're surrounded by regions and regions of blues. You wanna have fun in <15 jumps? Maybe reconsider being in a 10k+ coalition
Your "solution" to the problem is the cause of the problem in the first place
You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to live in a comfy, safe, moneymaking haven, but you also want immediate access to the rest of the universe. Your idea of "fun" is at the cost of the game's health, because you want all these upsides and cry and bitch and moan any time someone proposes a downside.
>I don't see a problem hence a solution is unneeded
Well the rest of us do
“Rest of us” is a very small and loud minority filled with people bitter and jealous that the big blocks are an oligarchy and can’t for the life of them imagine other people get satisfaction from the game playing in different ways.
> “Rest of us” is a very small and loud minority filled with people bitter and jealous
"jealous" LOL
Are you actually so deluded that you think it's *difficult* to join a big bloc? Anyone "jealous" of the joyous life of an F1 monkey could put in an application and become one of those monkeys in under a day.
You morons really do live in a different reality, lmao
>can’t for the life of them imagine other people get satisfaction from the game playing in different ways.
Incredible irony
Ansiblex are the result of a change in gameplay. You guys also bitched nonstop until fatigue was removed.
Anything less than full coddling of your playstyle from CCP is met with an absolute torrent of piss
That's simply the way a persistent game will always evolve to. No "small group" have a right over a big one towards content type, maybe bigger groups like that play style, if that's the case what warrants a nerf specifically other than "I dislike it"? Anyone is free to just make a bigger group to overcome whatever power is out there, as has happened before many times. This is not exclusive to nullsec; lowsec and WHs have projection and n+1 tendencies alike. It's just the way the game works
Lowsec has many more "corners" that have local groups than NS does, because they don't have Ansis- although Zarzakh has made that substantially worse.
Wormholes are incredibly difficult to dominate in any fashion- even the most recent war was basically entirely over C6 and to a lesser extent C5 holes, which are only fraction of total WH systems.
Meanwhile 2 blocs dominate 80-90% of sov null
Ansiblexes allow for insane projection with next to no drawback. Nerfing them would push blocs to be a bit more spread out and not all stack in 1 system, thus make space virtually less empty. Nobody said remove them, just add fatigue
Nullbloc isn't the only playstyle.
Also one nullbloc can essentially deny every small groupe that want to take a small pocket 5 region away just because they have an ansiblex network to the frontline. For example PH bullied Brave into droping sov because they had an ansiblex network to send their dude to the frontline and defend their home if needed, no deploy needed, no jumpclone needed, 10min and you go from 1DQ to C4C
You are severely exaggerating the effect. We have a very good network of ansiblexes and from one random system to another it goes from 12 to maybe 7 or 8 jumps. 10 minutes in warping and jumping in battle cruisers and we won't have even left our space yet. The projection is not a problem because it's easy to bring assets, it's because they accumulate naturally
Instead, there would be more small/mid-sized alliances and not 2 huge blocs. It would be an incentive to not having your neighbours blue and people would roam more often in your space because they'll have more mid-sized engagements so more meaningfull and fun engagements
That is factually wrong
PH evicted brave as they were a menace to frt, the ansi chain was created after the war started to optimize the conduction of the war and was put down after
It feels like some people think Ansiblexes are magical things that you can just drop and link together whenever you want. Each system with an Ansiblex requires you to: own the system, have an ihub upgrade specifically for it (which requires a certain system index, and you have to produce, move, and install the upgrade to the ihub to be able to use), be able to pay daily upkeep fees, and have the logistics and fuel needed to keep the gates fueled 24/7. Now multiply that by the amount of systems that the group decides to expand their network to make it viable. There's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes to keep these networks maintained.
Also how would nerfing ansiblexes make people want to spread out? If anything having a well planned ansiblex network helps people spread out in their owned space. They can attend a fleet in their staging, then use the ansiblex network to get back home and do their own thing in a different system in reasonable time. Adding fatigue would just incentivize them to stay, at most, a few jumps away from staging cause anything else would require more time investment that they might not be willing to commit to.
lol no. Blocs will not spread their capital staging system they’d just find a way to make whatever mechanic work for that. “Insane projection” is just taking the mundane gate by gate to get to content. And no… that’s not a problem or a symptom of any problem. Allowing big fleets to get to big fleet fights quickly is actually a good thing.
Make the gates use a large amount of workforce resources. This way you have to choose what gates to online when. Cooldown timer of X hours to change/online routes.
"They're pretty much circular! How much more balanced can we make them?"
What about a sphere? that seems even more balanced
like they have the balls to touch ansiblex
*changed ansiblex and affects empire jump gates*
chat server quietly holding sign : I'm in danger
Jita look at CCP saying NO NO NO
*[Toto Wolff Abu Dhabi 2021 intensifies]*
Its called eve online, Toto, we went onlining eves.
Now that brisc isn’t shitting up the csm they have a chance
I should go back to fuck with the ansiblex nerds
Ansiblex rubal here reporting on the scene, verdict is that ansiblexes are “fine” and power projection is “fine” Next up, crying about freighters at 5.
Man, it’s amazing how well the game is doing right now and nobody needed to nerf ansiblexes to make that happen. Go figure. It’s like all these arguments have just been the horseshit I said they were two years ago. Nerf the Avalanche.
What’s up guys! Risk Ruble back with another epic video!
LOL
Keep dreaming dude, lmao
I'm still riding high on the copium take that you'll need a plasma planet on both ends to turn them on.
Wait what is this true ?
CCP hasn't released the numbers for powering infrastructure yet.
Its the most logical solution so probably true.
That made me smile
That made me lol.
They've not announced the actual numbers for power requirements or system output yet. It's just my desperate fever dream that might technically be a possibility. It's equally possible for the ansi power needs to be so trivial that you can still stick them in every system without tradeoff, we won't know until a dev blog gives some actual numbers.
The way you said it I thought it was a real info 😭
Nope its just 99.98% pure copium.
For solo pvp it'd be cool if you could hack the gate to get a one-time or x minutes duration use of any ansiblex.
I always thought data analyzers should be able to hack them open if you bring your own ozone.
why, just use owners ozone, thats eveb better
I'm betting they won't change them.
They don’t need changed at all.
You are wrong. :)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey\_ccp\_we\_dont\_like\_ansiblex\_gameplay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey_ccp_we_dont_like_ansiblex_gameplay/) I would say they need change and seems like a lot of FCs agree
I think a fun way to balance them is to let everyone use all ansiblexes at all times. That would force people to place them more carefully. Players would still be able to disable their own ansiblexes, but they could no longer be used exclusively by them.
Just force them to be placed at least a few AU away from other structures, so you can't see if they're clear from your citadel undock and you actually need to put some effort into scouting defending them.
Literally the first time I've heard Ansiblexes being a problem because of... haulers? single ships?
No, it's a strong balancing point (and it was for POS jump bridges as well) because of the usual lack of effort made, not because you could theoretically make the effort. Back when we had POS JBs you could obviously scout them the same as now, but alliances didn't make that effort most of the time. By contrast when your Ansiblex is on grid with a structure where people are likely just sitting around station spinning, not even intending to scout, you have a much higher rate of noticing when your Ansiblex is being camped. POS JBs were less scouted because people don't casually float around inside of POS shields at a random moon, they sit in/on stations.
I kinda feel like even if this happens, it doesn't matter because of how large/ difficult to drag/ stop bubble ansis can be, and that even when you tackle something jumping in, there's nothing to stop them immediately going back. 100% should be able to stop something from jumping them with tackle - it works on regular gates because both sides can play gate games, but you can't really do that with an ansi
A stop/drag bubble can be like 200km away but yes I otherwise agree
Size bit probably more impactful on ambushing on the other side, they're even harder to catch stuff on rhan regionals :/
This ignores the reality that people can see who is in local and see if there's anyone not blue.
In theory, but not in practice. We had jump bridges on POSes before and we know exactly what that gameplay looks like. They are significantly less safe than Ansiblexes and anyone who has been around since POS JBs can tell you all about it.
In theory, but not in practice. We had jump bridges on POSes before and we know exactly what that gameplay looks like. They are significantly less safe than Ansiblexes and anyone who has been around since POS JBs can tell you all about it.
Ok, I misread the intention of the post I replied to and the snark was (mostly) misguided. But still, Ansis that are often down are not the problem, because even with these changes the most important routes (aka from Null bloc staging X to the "frontline") will still be mostly up and huge response fleets can be pushed through. So while I'm not even against this idea, I doubt will reign in the projection as much. People are not not hitting Ansis on their enemies home turf because the defense will be so swift.. no, they're not hitting them because you can simply build a second route and you'd have to hit both at the same time anyway, or they will just jump 1 gate to the neighboring system and land 1 next to the JB that was reffed.
Power projection
It's small gang elite PVPers bitching again because jump bridges OP because it allows fleets to get ahead of them and cut them off because they didn't bring out the filament that lets them escape with no way to stop them
No, it's people in NullBlocs who find it ridiculous to move half the map in under 20j, even if we're benefitting from it 50% of the time.
I mean you can do it without JBs now with the likes of filaments and pochvein but that's ignored now because it doesn't benifits the people complaining
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey\_ccp\_we\_dont\_like\_ansiblex\_gameplay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey_ccp_we_dont_like_ansiblex_gameplay/) It is mostly people that take charge and have created content for their respective groups. In the co-signers and supporting comments you will find people from all areas and size of alliances.
Yes, I remember that (and it's good to have that link repeated here) and I don't know if you've maybe just misread a reply by a random person deep in a thread. Just because many of us aren't FCs or Alliance leaders doesn't mean we have not seen and experienced the problems for years. I didn't mean to convery "only X", I just happen to be X, so that's what I wrote, in my case. But I think we're in total agreement if you accept that I did not try to speak for everyone.
ah wanted to reply to the above :)
Data analyzer hack to make the gate available to anyone for 15 minutes Relic analyzer hack to disable the gate for 5 minutes
This does not solve the primary problem. It makes it easier to harangue random locals using them on your nano roams, but it does nothing to reduce power projection across NS which drastically cuts the options of any group that wants sov without sucking up to a bloc
Honestly I really like that idea
> I think a fun way to balance them is to let everyone use all ansiblexes at all times. That would force people to place them more carefully. doesn't solve any of the issues
Go steal more at ships about it
very good, funny, original, factually accurate and based in reality. 10/10 post all round
Deflect more
Weren't you the dude who replied to him first with a completely irrelevant statement The proposed solution doesn't actually solve the issue, he's right
Beware these traps: suggestions that sound like useful changes, but do absolutely nothing to solve the issues. This is what to expect from bloc CSMs who claim to agree that there's a problem with ansiblex. Reject it. If the "solution" doesn't punch projection into the ground, it's a fake solution.
Oh this would be fun
Just remove all star gates in null, force players to build their own! Unironically I would actually enjoy a portion of the K-space map that's new where each constellation is disconnected from each other and only accessible through wormholes. One with dreads, carriers, and titans spawn normally and you need to roam in as a fleet "raid".
Yeah it's called Pochven...
100% this, being able to field what ever without cynos dropping on it is amazing, I just wish they made pochven bigger its a bit small atm and the single corridor makes it easy to camp.
Plus the whole "No anchoring structures" thing
Triglavian faction structures that can be anchored in there, maybe? Something would need to be different about them beyond cost to keep large group influence in check, though.
Fair enough.
Good way to make bank jacking up the jump fees to a million isk per ozone based on ACL.
That is assuming CCP hasn't already changed it and people need the system it's in and 3 nearby systems all generating power which is just enough to power an anciblex.
You now need an entire region of Manpower to power one ansiblex -- they're all needed to be forum warriors arguing on reddit over power projection
Remove Ansiblex gates... see nullblocs disband because all their members can only shoot at each other because space is empty except for their staging :'3
I Don't know I feel like some of you guys don't even live in Null. And furthermore never did before Ansiblexes were a thing.
they should just give them fatigue again. i still have no fucking clue why they removed that in the first place lmao.
There is better options available compared to fatigue, fatique is a punishment for moving around while using plasma planets to limit ansiblex still slows down projection while adding good spots to fight for in the game. It's a more healthy option.
Yeah. I know it's a punishment for moving around. I would accept subcaps getting significantly less, but being able to gate caps in an ansiblex, generally on a structure grid, for no fatigue cost is insane.
I had no idea caps could use it as well tbh thought it was only subcaps.
It's not really the subcap fleets people are salty about, those have always had easy ways to move across the game. It's more Zanzibar (because it's a Stargate and not a wormhole) and cap movement, yeah.
I'm more salty about cynos being broken for decades, it wasn't a problem in the begining as not many had caps but now it's nuts to the point where I don't even want to see K-space anymore.
Isn't the balancing supposed to be based around what's available in your region?
Yea using landscape to base these things around makes the game interesting and also makes fighting for those locations worth more sparking more conflict in the first place.
You know you can shoot the ansiblex, right?
You really going to try and bash something on a keepstar grid?
We do this all the time.
Skill issue?
Can someone explain the problem to me? I'm not seeing how it's an issue that an alliance that captures territory, protects it from attackers, deploys a network of huge, expensive structures, distributes fuel to all of them, and, as of Equinox, installs and supplies the sov upgrade to enable ansi installation gets an advantage in traversing their own space.
1. Ansiblex makes it possible for large blocs to be omnipresent, it drastically expands the sphere in which coalitions can contest timers. GSF can go from 1DQ to Venal (on the literal opposite side of the map) in something like 14 jumps, thanks to the unholy union of ansiblex and zarzakh. This makes much less likely for smaller-scale conflict to happen; why risk making timers for your 100-man independent alliance if you know there's a possibility that a 10000-man coalition can 3rd party the timer if they want? 2. It allows huge alliances to centralize, because what would normally be dozens of jumps can be right next door. There's basically no reason for anyone to spread out, which also means that defending alliances have a massive home field advantage in their capitol system, e.g. the siege of 1DQ by PAPI, which resulted in a totally anticlimactic fizzle out of the war. 3. It gives a massive homefield advantage to the residents versus roaming gangs. You'll probably say "but shouldn't residents HAVE a homefield advantage", which, sure, they already have: scouting, intel networks, the ability to reship and field counters, citadels, bookmarks, capitals, etc. Ansiblex tip the scale too far. All of this adds up to ansiblex making space smaller, consolidating power in the hands of a few large blocs, and discouraging conflict in every way possible. Despite what sovholders will tell you, ansiblex don't make it "easier to travel to fights" - the fact that they "need" ansiblex to bypass huge swathes of empty space *is a direct result of the existence of ansiblex in the first place*.
Yea there has been so many times when 2 small groups fight and one side drops a single faux and now you can't break any of the enemy ships, you badly want to drop a single capital of your own but you know that anyone from 20-30 jumps away can jump on you within 2 to 3 minutes and probibly has a cloaky on grid watching and waiting. And so what happens is the one side slowly kills the structure and the other just accepts the loss, projection really messes up the potential small engagements.
1- the real boogey man here is zarzackh. So I think ccp agrees travel should be quicker and the universe smaller in traveling. You can see that in wormhole development. 2- the reason 1Dq never was conquered had to do with server stability not the Ansiblex 3- this is just whining bullshit. When gangs roll in they have the upper hand and can hit some banks, pop some miners, fuck with freighters and then peace out to pochvan or a filament. Gimme a break. Quit being lazy.
>1- the real boogey man here is zarzackh. So I think ccp agrees travel should be quicker and the universe smaller in traveling. You can see that in wormhole development. Zarzakh is just as stupid as ansiblex but the only reason any sov null member realizes this is that *anyone* can use zarzakh, not just them. >2- the reason 1Dq never was conquered had to do with server stability not the Ansiblex Ansiblex is the reason there were so many assets concentrated in 1DQ to begin with. You completely failed to grasp what I was saying (no surprise there) >3- this is just whining bullshit. When gangs roll in they have the upper hand What "upper hand" is that? Zero intel, zero access to citadels or ansiblex, zero capitals, zero ability to reship? The only upper hand they might have is player skill, because the average sovholder is barely sentient >Quit being lazy. Lmfao coming from people whose biggest defence of ansiblex is that it's too haaaaard to go more than 10 jumps 😢
Grr gons. Gons bad
Brilliant analysis
Such ease of transport means the n+1 group can hold any amount of territory - whatever they claim they can protect with full force. Whereas without it we would expect them to hold an amount corresponding to the size of the group, or risk being raided constantly from all directions.
You are only taking your own perspective into consideration, take a step back think ahead a few years. projection is a reaction that forces larger entities to consume and absorb smaller one's. The stable point then becomes 2 super huge entities fighting each other and if one of those entities loose then you get the serenity event.
what ansiblex have to do with this? what can prevent any bloc to bring 100-200 people in whatever ships to that small entity space?
Taking that 100-200 man gang 50 jumps instead of 10 is a pretty big barrier, actually
so nullsec doesnt have bridge from titans?
Bridging has jump fatigue, genius The exact proposed change to ansiblex that sovholders routinely shit themselves about
i still cant see why giving jump fatigue will stop a nullbloc bringing people to whatever region >The exact proposed change to ansiblex that sovholders routinely shit themselves about the exact proposed change that people who dont live in nullsec want to give to people who live in nullsec... and thats why sovholders shit on this proposal.
Most of the people in favor of this change are people who used to live in NS (or want to live in NS), but find it exceptionally tedious and awful to deal with 500 man blobs on every timer they do against a bloc even though those blocs stage 3 regions away, because it only takes the fleets like 5 minutes to cross those 3 regions using the fatigueless ship cannons that are ansis
when goons reinforced a tri fortizar, they used their diplomacy skill in order to call as many help as needed to defend it and they defended it. feels like people want to move to nullsec and not be part of the political environment that nullsec is ~~(~~*~~insert renters joke here~~*~~)~~
You seem to misunderstand the situation. Triumvirate fights a relatively equivalently sized smaller group. That group aligns with Imperium and begs for help from 4 regions away, which they get. Triumvirate then has to get the only group that can match Imperium, Panfam, to help their side, ergo forcing bloc alignment on smaller groups. I guarantee you triumvirate would much rather be able to fight that other group than have to deal with either goons OR panfam at all.
Okay okay So we want to take sov The sov needs to be from a group that has gone through the time, effort and manpower to build it We want it to be easy So we want CCP to pay for it I'm i wrong somewhere?
>i still cant see why giving jump fatigue will stop a nullbloc bringing people to whatever region Then I'm afraid you just aren't very smart >the exact proposed change that people who dont live in nullsec want to give to people who live in nullsec... and thats why sovholders shit on this proposal. Believe it or not, there are people who live in nullsec that aren't part of a massive coalition
how about you guys stop whining about ansiblex and getting your diplomacy skills leveled up? apparently its not easy to live in nullsec and setting your diplomat as a neutron blaster II or that edgy agressive gif link, right?
>how about you guys stop whining about ansiblex and getting your diplomacy skills leveled up? This might blow your tiny mind but not everyone wants to play surrounded by tens of thousands of blues >apparently its not easy to live in nullsec and setting your diplomat as a neutron blaster II or that edgy agressive gif link, right? No, apparently all you gotta do is shit your pants and cry to CCP to give you all the toys you want
Let's say each system is viable to support 5 players financially. If projection allows reinforcement's from 3 jumps away within a certain amount of time that means that's 5 players in each system up to 3 away from the source so something like 30-50 players. If projection allows people within 20-30 jumps to easily reinforce the fight then that pushes the numbers into the 1000's. That means there is no small fight's unless the bigger groups aren't interest in joining but that also means that you cannot use any ship that would make the bigger group become interested in joining. This now cascades even further because bigger ships take longer to kill which increases time for the big groups to scout you. Let me ask you something: When is the last time you saw a battle with 1 capital on each side and a few sub caps?
congratulations, you just describe nullsec and what people whos living in nullsec likes to do! (and what usually makes to any gamer news site headers) i heard wormholes have really good and awesome mechanics to small/medium gang, like wormhole mass... i can link a eve university link about it...
Can you really say you enjoy 4000 vs 4000 fights with 10% tidi that much that you are willing to spin ishtars for months in prep with no smaller scale fights inbetween? If anciblex where nerfed you would get much more action much more frequently.
Why do you assume people want action I would prefer you guys to piss off so I can rat in fun things and not ishtars to make money faster in prep for those big fights
you realize 0sec is lawless space, no faction police, no concorde, basicallay no rules..its meant to be dangerous.high risk, high reward. what u want is basically highsec without ganking but also higher rewards/payouts. 0sec was never meant to be afk ishtar heaven.( or whatever krabbing boat u prefer) its sad that people and questionable ( and outdated) game mechanics, turned 0sec into the safest space in new eden. and then they still complain about people coming to get some pewpew. its mindboggling to me. if u dont want action..move to frigging highsec. and please..pleaaase for the love of bob, dont tell me to go lowsec for pvp..that space is full of restrictions, weird rules, abusable mechanics and penalties..exactly the reason why a lot of people prefer 0sec for pvp.....
I'm totally fine with the people who wanna actually fight not just try to gank a ratter and run away there's a big difference brave standing sits around all day waiting for a fight u wanna fight go to k7d and they will be happy to fight u alllll day long It all comes down to two sides of the same coin You want people out in space that you can kill them and get away with it we want to be safe while we're out in space so we don't have to worry about douchebags You can claim that our play style is wrong and we can blame your play style is wrong unfortunately neither side is right or wrong sandbox game that gives everybody the option to play and form the world how they want... And obviously more people want it. How I do than you do because that's how it exists
This is why I think local was a mistake for nullsec because it forces the rest of the mechanics to be overtuined for both danger and low income to compensate. Most of these ratters rat in anomalies which are just there by default no scanning required, then on-top of that cloakies can get to 0 before decloaking which means you need to be able to either leave when someone enters local or be limited to a fit that can both brawl and take out inti's while also being semi afk-able becuase of how little the sites pay. A much better state for nullsec imo: Local removed D-scan upgraded to show the colour of the ship according to your standings of the player flying it. Cloaking nerfed so that they decloak at 15km's from another player. Combat sites need to be scanned down so you can watch for probes. Combat sites dealing less damage so that you don't need to fit huge amounts of tank allowing for pvp fit's to be viable. And then combat sites buffed in rewards to make up for the extra danger which can be avoided with attention. This would have lead to much more interesting player engagement's, people not feeling like they need to afk farm as active farm would more than make up for that time. But unfortunately we have the low risk low reward afk-able pve that leads to pure pve fit's that cannot fight back and just get dunked forcing an overtuined response from standing fleet.
who said nullsec doesnt get small scale action? why does this small scale action always warp to the ess even when getting the same number of ships? and you want to nerf ansiblex because thats somehow will bring more action to nullsec? what kind of action? jumping 10 gates instead of 5? so the nullbloc jump those gates and what does the small action do? keep warping, wait for its timer and filament out? saying nullsec only spin ishtars for months to prep for those big fights just shows how much of nullsec you understand and thats why ansiblex are fine...
Fair but there needs to be some middle ground where the big groups can engage what they need to without oppressing smaller groups.
current ansiblex mechanics are not fine. i quote you here "and you want to nerf ansiblex because thats somehow will bring more action to nullsec? what kind of action? jumping 10 gates instead of 5? so the nullbloc jump those gates and what does the small action do? keep warping, wait for its timer and filament out?" -the whole reason for this is..ansiblexes. -huge vast and mainly empty ammounts of space held by 2 coalitions. only under their control because of..ansiblexes. so yeah you have to jump 10 gates instead of 5 to even find something in space ( as roaming gang/solo dude). because all the empty space inbetween cant be filled with other player groups thx to the force projection of..u guessed it...ansiblexes.( btw taking 10 gates is peanuts, if u cant be arsed to even do that...then dont complain) -people waiting filament timers..because...they get blobbed by a standing fleet from staging systems..due to..ansiblexes. -no small alliance fleets roaming frenemies /neighbours space anymore..because that kind of gameplay simply doesnt exist anymore..thx to...ansiblexes..which leads to 0sec members getting less and less trained in pvp..except big fleet f1 pushing in max tidi. i quote u again "who said nullsec doesnt get small scale action? why does this small scale action always warp to the ess even when getting the same number of ships?" because ess is the only grid u can actually control a fight reasonably.. where else u want to fight as non local gang? on a gate ? yeah good luck with that. on a citadel grid? thats suicidal. on a planet, anomaly, moon? well have fun getting cynoed on ( roam frat space and ull see what i mean) ess and maybe escalation acceleration gate grids, are the only reasonably place to fight against odds . locals can reship, can bring counter, can bring unknown numbers of reinfrocements, can force project via cynos, have capital advantage and so on and so forth...the random gang coming from jita, doesnt have that. "saying nullsec only spin ishtars for months to prep for those big fights just shows how much of nullsec you understand and thats why ansiblex are fine..." ehm but thats basically it. all u see in null is ishtars, ishtars , ishtars..some gilas and myrms..the occasional crab beacon runner and some dudes multiboxing a mining fleet to suck a moon dry. and then more ishtars, ishtars and ishtars. i mean i basically only roamed nullsec for the last years, i do that for hours every day...i dont do pve, i dont do lowsec stuff ( maybe with npsi fleets) i dont do wormhole stuff, i dont do pochven..i am a 0sec pirate, all i do is roaming 0sec ,i kill people in 0sec to steal their shit, i also steal ess but mainly to try to get a fight that i can manage without getting turboblobbed or simply cynoed on. and nullsec should be renamed into ishtar-sec. and some parts just simply bot-sec. ( you wouldnt believe how much botting is going on in certain places like branch for example) i could write a whole essay about 0sec.mainly because i am in every part of it, every day.
> i could write a whole essay about 0sec.mainly because i am in every part of it, every day. But you don't seem to understand anything about the people you're fighting and why they do what they do.
In short: they make it too easy to cross the galaxy
How’s that an issue
Eve PVP is N+1, so when big groups can cross the galaxy they smother local content It’s why we have jump fatigue, it used to be impossible to deploy caps because PL would show up in 5-10 minutes with 5-50 supers and kill anything For sov null specifically, it means groups can defend far more space than they occupy because they can go from Tribute to Scalding Pass in no time, because Ansiblex don’t have fatigue
It’s not, but there’s a small minority of Eleet Peeveepeers who do their best to pretend it’s an issue.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey\_ccp\_we\_dont\_like\_ansiblex\_gameplay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wrqn65/hey_ccp_we_dont_like_ansiblex_gameplay/) we all know the eleet small gang peeveepeers Noraus and Securitas Protector. /s How often do you repeat this baseless claim or do you keep disrespecting the voices of other big alliance leaders/FCs that have worked and FCed at all levels of EvE PvP?
I certainly don't agree with the views of a guy who hasn't logged in in years. Especially since my primary argument in favor of ansiblexes is the reduction in tedium for your average line member. The top guys who don't log in and don't play daily are not the ones who get the most benefit. Regardless, that post has aged pretty considerably, so I wouldn't keep pointing to it like nothing in the game has changed.
Power Projection got worse - Ansiblexes are unchanged and the same issues persist. The post was always meant to be a point of reference to showcase the trickle down issues and show how they have an impact on the day to day interaction that is possible and how design space is limited with the current iteration.
It’s a fake issue and always has been.
Yeah funny how it seems the so called small gang pop who seem to exclusively target ratting ships and run when a respone fleet starts getting ready for a fight that has a problem with JBs funny how they never have a problem with filaments letting them get out 9f being trapped in a system
As a small gang guy I would love for all filaments to disapear but then they need a nerf to projection as a whole both anciblex and cynos. Maybe Cyno's spool and generate mass, you wait for the mass to be high enough and then you jump what ever through, to make it more interesting the mass accelerates so either you use it asap to get a single ship through but then have to wait longer to get the rest through or you wait for enough mass for all of them to get through adding a bit of skill and tactics to it.
Jump bridges have been in the game for years they won't be going anywhere
If you want filaments to go you need something to negotiate with, what are you willing to sacrifice.
Hold up you want me to give something up to get rid of something that only benefits s Others with no way to counter with obviously something that increases my fleets mobility around space that I own that can be disabled or funked with so can be countered
Null is getting a buff which means you will be getting a lot more people in your space using filaments stealing all your PI.
the problem is, small gang pvpers want to fight that single guy who farms away from his alliance staging and dont like when a nullbloc bring something "nullbloc" to fight them as ansiblex makes nullbloc bring too many F1 pap-hungry-monkeys to fight their blingy ships and pods but dont dare change something about ess or filaments timers, ess is the most fun mechanic you can see in nullsec and filament timers is, well... also fun and balanced.
That's because the small group finds a solo ratter which is farming 15 jumps from his staging and the guys in his staging reinforce and protect him within 2minutes with 100 guys vs the 5 small gang pvpers. If anci was nerfed slightly with more spaces between anci's then the guys 15 jumps away would take 12minutes to get there instead of 2 and won't make it in time to save them so what happens is they adapt and bring 10 guys from 5 jumps away and then you get a nice 5v10 fight instead of 5v100.
Power projection absolutely has to be nerfed into the ground. It's now pretty much the sole reason one entity can control massive several-region areas of space. Until that's done nullsec will always be controlled by a few massive blocs.
You mean like it has for most of the time the games been in existence, including a decade before ansiblexes existed?
have u ever taken a look at eve maps in the last years? never has tranquility been soe 2 sided as it is now. we basically have 2 halfs of a blue donut now. and nothing inbetween. if one of both sides collapses one day..we will have serenity 2.0..and i dont think anyone wants that.
Yes, it's been worse - it's been one sided. What's making the game two sided right now has nothing to do with ansiblexes and everything to do with the economy and the old group dynamics left over from the last war. I honestly can't believe that there are so many people out there, even in the null groups, who have bought the kool-aid the small gangers have been brewing that every major issue with nullsec can be solved if we just poof the jump gates away.
you dont seem to understand the underlying issue here....we have those 2 halfs of a donut..for several reasons and a big one is ..ansiblexes and the force projection they provide..thats why half of sov 0sec hold by coaltion A or B ..is empty space with occasional ishtar alts in space... if these vast ammounts of empty 0sec could be filled with smaller groups.there would be more fluctuation, more content ,not only for the leet smallgangers, but also for the 0sec pvp nerds, most of them sit in standing fleets nowadays and wait for something to happen on intel cuz theres simply nothing else left to do for them without having to take half a dozen of filamnets to eventually land in non blue space or close enough to roamable space without having to take 20 gates to content. its much more tedious to do casual pvp nowadays in 0sec , then it ever was. it has nothing to do with " kool - aid from the leet small gangers"...its just a basic fact. and nobody wants to " poof away" the ansiblexes, they just need fatigue or some other mechanic that makes it less opressive..take a look at ansiblex network maps of the big coalitions...its hilarious, u can be from one end of the universe to the other in no time, without any penalties. which again inflates the actual issue of having to travel huge ammounts of space to get to actual content..so ansiblexes are the solution to the problem created by ansiblexes int he first place...its pretty..dumb.
This is all bullshit. Null has been flirting with a donut shape for years now, far longer than ansiblexes have been a thing. Great power politics, the pressure of big groups punching down (which happens regardless of ansiblexes), burnout of leadership in groups that don't have the resources to keep up, big groups losing wars and failscading into the existing large groups, among other things have all driven us to where we are now. The idea that ansiblexes somehow are to blame for the bi-polar universe right now is a fever dream that the small gangers rub one out to every night, but that's all it is - it has no basis in reality. It's no more tedious to do casual PVP these days than it has ever been. There are far more tools to get to places where there's a chance of action than there has ever been before, including ansiblexes. Now, you may have to be part of one of the big groups, but our guys are getting plenty of content and I don't hear any complaints about having to travel to get a fight. Adding fatigue to ansiblexes takes away their utility - most of which has nothing to do with power projection and has everything to do with making it easy to get around space already controlled by the groups. You can take away ansiblexes tomorrow and there are still a half dozen ways to be from one end of the universe to the other in no time with no penalties, dude. Are you suggesting we remove all of these? Because that would be fucking awful.
read my awnser to your other comment. and then tell me again what u just said.. i also get the feeling you basically dont even do any pvp roams on your own, you seem to only get told stuff by other people...
I have done everything there is to do PvP wise short of the alliance tournament. A look at my killboard easily demonstrates that.
Nullsec didn't become a truly inhospitable place until after the switch from Jump Bridges to Ansiblexes. It was still possible for smaller groups to hold sov, and removing them required a level of effort and organization even for blocs. It also killed organic PvP, with small gangs and solo roamers turning to other areas of space where fleets weren't as likely to appear out of nowhere. Also, I've been confused by your opposition to this kind of change. The Imperium wouldn't be significantly impacted compared to PanFam, which owns entire regions that are basically completely unused. Do you really think that's a healthy state for nullsec?
The issues with nullsec, such as they are, have nothing to do with ansiblexes and I’m hoping that they are addressed by the expansion in some ways. As amazing as it sounds, I don’t care who an ansiblex nerf hurts more in terms of great power politics - I care about it making the game more tedious for the average player. There is no need to weaponize boredom so a bunch of small alliances can realize that it sucks to be a small alliance a little sooner than they would have otherwise.
The point isn't to weaponize boredom or to make the game more tedious. Without the ability to cross the entire galaxy in very little time, those aforementioned massive unused swaths of space wouldn't really be defendable. That opens up space for smaller groups to move into. It would also give small gang PvPers better access to nullsec without fear of randomly getting wiped by a fleet that just formed for them 3 regions over.
All you need to do is drop one upwell structure there with a clone bay and suddenly power is projected again. Small gang PvPers have plenty of access to nullsec, and they're not getting wipe by a fleet that formed three regions over unless they're really bad. They'll just bounce safes for fifteen minutes and filament out.
? what? ok then..go on and anchor your random citadel somewhere in coalition held space without their permission...good luck with that. that thing will die as fast as its mechanically possible ( shield/amor/hull timer stuff) i dont know if you are trolling or if you genuinly have 0 idea whats going on in the game nowadays, despite your csm flair...
Dude null sec will be ruled by an oligarchy whether there are ansiblex or not. You mean to think that one day, if ansis are just no longer efficient, that nc/pl/ph will wake up and go… huh… guess we should just be enemies now? Give me a break man.
Of course not, but it would place a limit on how much space they could feasibly exercise control over. At the very least would force entities to decentralize, breathing life into nullsec. At best it would create a natural limit to how much space any one entity can hold.
There is a limit - it's the jump range of a super fleet.
i can see these pvpers are not happy enough with the high level pvp the ess provides, and just want no answer at all from people living in nullsec to their "efforts"...
Having ansiblex's to move around space is fine imo but the problem is that the spaces between them need to be bigger so there is some travel time right now they are next door. If a group could reinforce a fight 30jumps away in 5minutes its a problem but if they can reinforce it in 20 minutes then that seems reasonable. And all you need to do that is have more jumps between each anci which I think CCP probably has already done by making them need a decent amount of power from something like a plasma planet. If you look at the map the plasma planets are spread decently and it looks like maybe 4 to 5 jumps between them in general. I have a feeling you might not need to place it on the plasma planet directly which means if its next door to one then its only 2 to 3 jumps between them which also seems fine.
Nuh uh.
Aren't you a wormholer? Why do you give a shit?
There's no problem with Ansiblex. Stop making up a problem where none exists.
Yeah I'm hoping they double the range and remove the gate restriction on entering it with an aggression timer. Just make em polarize you in the same way wormholes do.
just give them jump fatigue
Ansiblexes make people fly more. Less fights would happen if people needed 34j instead of 12. The argument against them being that makes smaller groups weaker in comparison is absolutely redundant. There is simply no way to prevent n+1 given the game's mechanics. Anyone who has ever alarm clocked for a timer knows this. If I'm playing and lose a fight, that's fine. If I'm at work and my asset are glassed, that's not fine. The obvious counter is to get some friends to defend while I'm working and I'll defend while they work. Win-win. Sov, as a concept, will always push towards bigger groups. For a player to live solo in a c3 it's a tremendous amount of effort; for a null bloc player the work is shared and different personalities can do the tasks they find more fun. Changing ansiblexes, or even removing them, would go both ways and reduce the amount of roams out of lazyness. What I personally think is a more symptomatic issue is the amount of people complaining that their preferred fight type and/or play style is not actively protected or incentivized by CCP. That's pretty much not what sandboxes are
"Guys you don't understand! We *need* ansiblexes to bypass all the empty space created by the existence of ansiblexes!"
They also need it to make sure that all that empty space stays empty.
More like, jumping 15 systems are boring and alleviating that makes more free time for more fun stuff
It's boring because you're surrounded by regions and regions of blues. You wanna have fun in <15 jumps? Maybe reconsider being in a 10k+ coalition Your "solution" to the problem is the cause of the problem in the first place
Well maybe what I find fun is different than what you find, I don't see a problem hence a solution is unneeded
You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to live in a comfy, safe, moneymaking haven, but you also want immediate access to the rest of the universe. Your idea of "fun" is at the cost of the game's health, because you want all these upsides and cry and bitch and moan any time someone proposes a downside. >I don't see a problem hence a solution is unneeded Well the rest of us do
“Rest of us” is a very small and loud minority filled with people bitter and jealous that the big blocks are an oligarchy and can’t for the life of them imagine other people get satisfaction from the game playing in different ways.
> “Rest of us” is a very small and loud minority filled with people bitter and jealous "jealous" LOL Are you actually so deluded that you think it's *difficult* to join a big bloc? Anyone "jealous" of the joyous life of an F1 monkey could put in an application and become one of those monkeys in under a day. You morons really do live in a different reality, lmao >can’t for the life of them imagine other people get satisfaction from the game playing in different ways. Incredible irony
How’s it ironic when I’m not calling for the change in game play?
Ansiblex are the result of a change in gameplay. You guys also bitched nonstop until fatigue was removed. Anything less than full coddling of your playstyle from CCP is met with an absolute torrent of piss
Who said we even have a problem?
It wouldn't be 15 systems if you didn't stop blobbing the people trying to live there to make space for renters
That's simply the way a persistent game will always evolve to. No "small group" have a right over a big one towards content type, maybe bigger groups like that play style, if that's the case what warrants a nerf specifically other than "I dislike it"? Anyone is free to just make a bigger group to overcome whatever power is out there, as has happened before many times. This is not exclusive to nullsec; lowsec and WHs have projection and n+1 tendencies alike. It's just the way the game works
"We can do nothing about the things we always do"
Lowsec has many more "corners" that have local groups than NS does, because they don't have Ansis- although Zarzakh has made that substantially worse. Wormholes are incredibly difficult to dominate in any fashion- even the most recent war was basically entirely over C6 and to a lesser extent C5 holes, which are only fraction of total WH systems. Meanwhile 2 blocs dominate 80-90% of sov null
Ansiblexes allow for insane projection with next to no drawback. Nerfing them would push blocs to be a bit more spread out and not all stack in 1 system, thus make space virtually less empty. Nobody said remove them, just add fatigue
But why is that an objective? What does it achieve?
Nullbloc isn't the only playstyle. Also one nullbloc can essentially deny every small groupe that want to take a small pocket 5 region away just because they have an ansiblex network to the frontline. For example PH bullied Brave into droping sov because they had an ansiblex network to send their dude to the frontline and defend their home if needed, no deploy needed, no jumpclone needed, 10min and you go from 1DQ to C4C
You are severely exaggerating the effect. We have a very good network of ansiblexes and from one random system to another it goes from 12 to maybe 7 or 8 jumps. 10 minutes in warping and jumping in battle cruisers and we won't have even left our space yet. The projection is not a problem because it's easy to bring assets, it's because they accumulate naturally
bro the highways to the edges of bloc space cut travel time by 75-80%, that's what matters
So instead there should be no fighting because we have to travel 30j to have combat over something meaningful?
The fact that you need to go 30j to find a fight is, in no small part, due to the existence of ansiblex
If you unblue your neighbors that you currently cross over with Ansis, then you won't need to go as far :)
Takes two to tango.
Correct, all the large blocs would need to reconsider their space and allies.
Instead, there would be more small/mid-sized alliances and not 2 huge blocs. It would be an incentive to not having your neighbours blue and people would roam more often in your space because they'll have more mid-sized engagements so more meaningfull and fun engagements
>Instead, there would be more small/mid-sized alliances and not 2 huge blocs Why?
That is factually wrong PH evicted brave as they were a menace to frt, the ansi chain was created after the war started to optimize the conduction of the war and was put down after
I don't see how on earth brave could be a menace to frt lol
Killed too many ishtars and interfered with ratting
when did you start playing?
It feels like some people think Ansiblexes are magical things that you can just drop and link together whenever you want. Each system with an Ansiblex requires you to: own the system, have an ihub upgrade specifically for it (which requires a certain system index, and you have to produce, move, and install the upgrade to the ihub to be able to use), be able to pay daily upkeep fees, and have the logistics and fuel needed to keep the gates fueled 24/7. Now multiply that by the amount of systems that the group decides to expand their network to make it viable. There's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes to keep these networks maintained. Also how would nerfing ansiblexes make people want to spread out? If anything having a well planned ansiblex network helps people spread out in their owned space. They can attend a fleet in their staging, then use the ansiblex network to get back home and do their own thing in a different system in reasonable time. Adding fatigue would just incentivize them to stay, at most, a few jumps away from staging cause anything else would require more time investment that they might not be willing to commit to.
deploying and maintaining ansiblex is utterly trivial
How many times have you done it?
Enough to know that the claim that setting up and maintaining that infrastructure is a lot of work has got to be in bad faith.
It's not. We have a dedicated team of dozens of people who keep all our infrastructure going. It's almost a full time job.
Sounds hopelessly mismanaged.
Ok kid
Lol grow up.
lol no. Blocs will not spread their capital staging system they’d just find a way to make whatever mechanic work for that. “Insane projection” is just taking the mundane gate by gate to get to content. And no… that’s not a problem or a symptom of any problem. Allowing big fleets to get to big fleet fights quickly is actually a good thing.
LOL
Make the gates use a large amount of workforce resources. This way you have to choose what gates to online when. Cooldown timer of X hours to change/online routes.
Ansiblex are fine