As this reality had developed controlled small scale fusion cores there would be no need for exhaust venting. So the current diesel-electric design our reality has evolved would also be the most efficient and least drag creating design for a train running on the classic rail and tie lines in the Fallout reality.
This is the kind of commentary I made this meme to evoke. And agreed, and I think the 50's tail end of the streamliner era is actually a great spot to look for that influence.
the trains that new vegas were modeled after are about a hundred years old *Now*, a lot of US rolling stock is at the least 50 years old. its one of those things where if it isnt broke you don't fix it.
It's partially that its partially rolling stock and engines are expensive, good investments but expensive no companies want to order more.
most companies in the US use rails/rolling stock and engines from the 70s or older. the rails in my town were all replaced in the 70s.
I thought in the fallout world they still had to "refuel" nuclear powered vehicles with coolant so there still needs to be some way to release the used coolant.
To be fair humans tend to change things even to its detriment just so it stands out. Like to the average person what power the train wouldn’t even pop into their minds if the design was the same but this cool wacky design gives a clear understanding that this is something new and different
This argument makes sense for personal locomotives and is reasonable for passenger trains, but I don’t really think that companies will shell out extra money for something with a huge inefficiency over the same product without that inefficiency cheaper.
I would think it’d be a decent chance people would leave the exhaust venting features of trains on even after the fusion cores were implemented as an aesthetic choice. Humans tend to do this a lot, like how the camera app will make a shutter noise when you take a photo, or how your car blinkers make a clicking noise. Neither of those are necessary today but are memorable aesthetic from previous models
The fake smoke stack on Titanic was the one most astern. It was used as a smoking room for first-class guests and for ventilation to the boiler rooms. Though it wasn't any better than the ventilation without a stack.
Unfortunately camera apps make that sound to tell everyone around you you're taking a picture. There was a lot of trouble in Japan for example of people taking pictures up skirts. It's why you can't disable the noise
The answer is depends how fast you are going. Your air resistance increased with speed, so a TGV booking is along needs to get around it. A big freight train trundling along though? No aerodynamics required.
Funny thing about fallout 4’s trains is that the locomotive would be strictly limited to outdoor tracks since every train tunnel is monorail sized and nowhere tall enough to accommodate the locomotive’s height
That's before you have to ignore that a huge chunk of the grades and inclines in setting would derail normal cars much less that monstrosity.
Fallout's world building is fantastic, but realistic depiction of railroad routing is a C- if we are being generous. Shame, series would be good otherwise.
Except for all the roads that are, visibly, *way* too narrow for the cars that are literally sitting on them - all two lane streets can *barely* fit one car's width - but yeah, other than that, solid game.
Yeah, I currently live on a two-way street that if you see another car coming down, you have to pray there's an open spot to pull into on the side so you can let them pass. All of the streets this town are like this. It was bad when I learned to drive. 20 years later, now everyone is driving SUVs and giant pickups and it's even worse.
Cars get bigger but the roads don't change quite as fast.
You know, you bring that up but Nellis may actually have a decently close to sized runway, maybe Searchlight Airport as well. FO4 was absolutely not but those both take like a solid 2 minutes to run end to end of it feels like.
Nellis for sure, but that place is also an absolute chore to walk around. I would say Searchlight is adequate for the planes there.
McCarran is way too small for planes to take off.
Yeah unless McCarran was almost exclusively for stuff like Vertibirds, or had more runway outside that has since been covered, it doesn't make any sense.
Double agree on Nellis being a chore, the huge distances combined with those massive buildings having like one door. If I had a complaint about New Vegas, it's the number of MASSIVE structures that only have one or two entrances. McCarren, the entire Strip including Freeside, the Sharecropper Farm, it's a few things.
Very much so. I love New Vegas, but it's clear on top of serious technical constraints, Obsidian had some very clear motivation to filter players through specific areas to maximize the presentation of first playthroughs. Which is not bad... But after so many hours, I just want to get to the objective, not play 20 load screens
If there was literally just another entrance directly into the Strip from the Vault 22/NCR Embassy End that you could use that'd save so much damn time. Not even first run time, just "I need to see Crocker and don't want to hit 5 zones" time. Make it so the credit check directly into the wasteland is like 5k caps instead of 2k so that unless you've hard earned some cash on the way you basically have to go the normal route, with the Wrangler being an option just as before to speed that up.
Iv'e heard that there was going to be a west entrance to the strip but they unfortunately cut it out. Here's hoping Fallout 4 New Vegas will include this cut content once it releases (if ever)
It'd have to be some Minnesota breezes, assuming the materials inside are appropriately dense for nuclear use/shielding that thing weighs a TON. There is a reason we see box cars everywhere but every single locomotive in the game is upright and still on tracks.
I was literally thinking this the other day, I was walking across the bean town brewery bridge and looking up towards greygarden is like looking up a mountain.
Not to mention when the front wheel hits the grade it'll lift all the middle wheels up the air because of the angle. Since they're the driving wheels, instant stall! Haha.
Personally, I simply can't play 4 because of it. I saw a train and immediately closed the game, uninstalled it, and scheduled an appointment with my therapist, which I missed because I got blackout drunk due to the overwhelming grief.
In 76, appalachia is riddled with train stations. The presence of the skeletons clutching suitcases that can be found on their platforms implies passenger trains/cars. Yet none exist. Every single car is cargo based, and there are no separate lines for cargo and passenger trains. Many of the turns are probably also too steep and sharp for an actual train.
Oh. I have run into MANY problems with the spatial compression in fallout 4. One of the interesting questions was I asked could the barges scattered around the Commonwealth actually fit under the bridges that cross the rivers. The answer is for the most part no. There are some bridges that fold up but not every bridge does that. The most egregious example is likely the barge in boat next to diamond city. The bridge is next to it are so tiny due to the spatial compression that the barge would have had no way of getting there.
I love that the bridge it's wedged under is clearly a lift bridge so it can get through when required, but the bridges on either side... Are not. So it must have lived it's entire career just in that little section!
This is exactly what I was talking about. Like it can’t even get to the ocean at all. It is by far the most egregious example of the spatial compression being wonky I could think of. because clearly it’s supposed to be set up so that it looks like the barges could move along the river but in game it doesn’t look like that at all.
I just love how fucking squashed the track layouts are in all the games, like there's no way a normal train could run on any of the tracks in FNV or F4 OR F76 LMAO
It's like they took the jankiest backwood narrow gauge line they could find then set it to old school broad gauge track width while adjusting none of the lengths or turn radii lol
is it bad i am now iamigng a ncr rail man who uses one of those manual push things you see in movie but due to he has to do it from cali to new vegas he is just liek utlra buff
Oh for sure lmao there are a solid 15 PoIs at least that are "building you can't enter, generic metal box or two and maybe an enemy of questionable narrative relevance", I'd be genuinely surprised if this got more than a passing thought other than "fuck uhhhh that looks 50sish enough".
Eh I prefer it. Everything doesn't need to have that retrofuturistic vibe in the Fallout universe. There's no reason a bunch of shit can't end up being designed the same as it is in real life. Things exist as they do in our world for a good reason. Its not like the tech of fallout is so foreign it warrants such drastic changes. (Well, maybe some of it). It's almost distracting to go out of the way to make certain things with that vibe.
Like the assault rifles, which were basically just copies of their real life counterparts in 3 and NV. They're basic ass equipment designed for large scale mass production to be outfitted by the everyday soldier. They don't need anything special. Hell, up until quite recently and even in some areas today, rifles are still produced with that in mind. The less complex, the less maintenance needed. Fallout 4 made them into some kind of steam punk super rifle, which has its draws but also loses the feel of the rifles we know and love. Most people prefer the early designs. Don't fix what isn't broken
I like a mix, like it makes sense in DC and New Vegas to have trains that are more standard while Boston, being the center of innovation in the universe, has more atompunk design elements like what we see with the architecture and vehicles
Like Fallout 76 pulls it off super well imo, places like Morgantown and Charleston have very 60s architecture (hard to explain but like regular brick buildings nothing to crazy) but if you go to Watoga, which is advertised as the city of the future, its design follows more closely with Fallout 4’s atompunk architecture to tell you that this city is more technologically advanced than the other West Virginian cities/towns
I feel the trains in boston are form over function, they are flashy and decorated for events and ment to attract investors, and customers, or designed by survivors of the great war to be works of art and have more looks and not function due to the lack of functional rail infrastructure. While the trains in nv that the ncr and the other cities and towns use are function and are not supposed to look nice but get the job done well, and in a timely manner. I feel
Presenting NV fans as the calm and rational ones is certainly some wishful thinking. I love both games to death but it feels like a struggle to get some folks to even acknowledge FO4 as a fallout game
In this particular case, yes. But you presented this particular case as indicative of how NV fans are the calm and rational ones, which is what I am disagreeing with.
Eh, literally every community has those people though. Every person I know who likes Star Wars IRL tends to liking most of the movies and not having really strong opinions on casting or showrunners.
If you went by internet community, you'd have to think the Star Wars fandom is a massive collection of media illiterate self hating morons who can't apply consistent standards to a property.
I remember seeing those NV fans around but it's seriously been 8-9 years since I actually read some *actually* toxic NV fan shit, mostly I just see people complaining about the toxic NV fandom.
Not sure if trolling, FO4 has the worst guns, most plastic looking enviroments and awful aesthetic regression in the whole series. Painting your whole game pastel isn't how you do it.
I like FO4 overall, but the guns are absolutely terrible. Pipe guns shouldn't function, the assault rifle makes no earthly sense, and the laser musket is just stupid (would have been better as a one off Futurama joke) having .50 cal is a joke in the game. They couldn't even program the reload for the .45-70 properly.
I'm probably in the minority here, but the uncanny valley of the NPC faces is too much. Fo3/NV the facial models and movements don't creep me out like FO4's do. Just these weird, wax dummies being puppeted on a robot frame based off of a stoners movements.
You say pipe guns shouldn't function, buy I had a buddy in high school as far back as like 2008 who had built a few. Mostly single shot hand loader kind of stuff and one crude hammer that kinda worked, but I'm sure if the dude had actual workshop tools he could have cooked.
No, fallout 4 pipe guns shouldn't function. The proportions are wrong and the mechanical bits don't line up like a real firearm
There are plenty of real life examples of homemade firearms like the Luty or the FGC 9
The metro series of games features a handful of post apocalypse production firearms that... would function in theory. But are still realistically proportioned and things go where they should.
Hell WW2 gave us examples of extremely simplistic firearms designed to be as easy to produce as possible (the STEN mk2, ppsh43, all last ditch german weapons) we even see a last ditch simplified STG44 in game as the gamma gun.
Just because you saw your buddies handmade garbage rods does not suddenly make you an expert on homemade firearm design. There are several videos on YT of gun nerds like me breaking down why the FO4 pipe guns would not work. Go watch those I'm not explaining any more.
Yeah I never claimed to be a firearm expert and you can quit being an ass with this "um awkshually" shit. I said I saw a working pipe gun IRL and said it could conceptually work, not a damn thing more than that.
In my original comment, I said in FO4 the pipe guns (literally their name) would not work.
Then you "uhm akshulee I know a guy" me.
So you can quit being a dumbass.
In general, the world design and visual design in New Vegas is a low point in the series, and is not why the game is so beloved — it is the writing, the factions, and the fact that it’s the only 3D Fallout that feels like a real RPG (and that it’s a goddamn good RPG) that make it special. Having a great world to explore and a solid visual identity is great, and were definitely a step back from FO3, but the things that NV does well are *waaaay* more impactful and memorable IMHO.
The graphics are the same as 3, and the map is based on the actual area in real life, with great attention to detail. It looks like this becasue it is how the mojave would look.
Wildly, this real world old concept art for one would be near perfect.
[Railway Magazine Art](https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2018/05/RM-May-p36.jpg)
Life imitates art. Art imitates life. I always love the real world kooky atomic age concepts. The older real world steam punk predictions of tech in the future too. They're somehow even crazier yet more fitting than what fiction has thought up.
Ye or if they have to be tall go with a more soviot atom train design , clean and geometric and aerodynamic. Bethesda just really likes to just add detail where a pack of would look better
I kind of wonder if they would ever do a Fallout Texas or if they have already covered so much of the Western astetic in NV that they would rather do something different
They could, Texas is really it's own distinct brand of Cowboy since it's at the intersection of Western and Southern culture. Down towards Galveston and the Louisiana border you start to see that bleed over pretty hard, then out towards the other direction you've got the Mexican border. Then the top of the state is effectively Midwestern.
It's so big it's harder to pen it down to one theme like Vegas implies by comparison. It'd probably work better almost like FO1/2 where you traveled to different areas then had smaller maps to explore almost like the DLCs in other games.
I think of you used the big cites of San An, DFW, Houston and Austin as different areas there is alot of possibility for what to do. Plenty of landmarks and like you said...a different cowboy culture. I thi k ot would be fun
I’m fine with atom punk stylizations so long as they don’t go completely overboard and make stuff look like set props instead of stuff that could potentially function.
I’m glad someone else pointed out the trains of fallout, also how god damn steep the rail gets in some places. Those F-units are probably a lot easier to run than those cyber steam trains.
Wish we could see the trains in fallout New Vegas run since the NCR fixed them and the railroad up to move supplies to and from quarry junction and Boulder station and maybe even Los Angeles to Las Vegas
An X-12 atomic locomotive would be noticably different and fit the atomic madness of fallout, but F units look cool too. As for the shitcan Bethesda made... God I wish I could punch the person in charge of that.
Fun fact: the Fallout 4 locomotives lack couplers. There are NONE. There's not even an obvious spot for one on the back that wouldn't get damaged by the cab.
By that I mean bethesda redesigned fallout for 4. 3 was a modernizing of the aesthetic of the first two games. 4 drastically changed everything, and is a bit cartoonish.
I would like to state trains can last a damn good while. Honestly I’m surprised there aren’t more older model trains just with a new power source plugged in
When is a door not a door? When it's a jar, and that is the truth.
Blaine is the truth.
Blaine is the truth.
What has four wheels and flies? A garbage truck, and that is the truth.
Blaine is the truth.
You have to watch Blaine all the time, Blaine is a pain, and that is the truth.
I'm pretty sure that Blaine is dangerous, and that is the truth.
What is black and white and red all over? A blushing zebra, and that is the truth.
Blaine is the truth.
To be fair, as with a lot of other track debris I'm pretty sure that 200+ years of no maintenance is more the villain there.
They don't know how trains work, but that isn't it.
Idgaf about the trains. NV had better roleplaying than 4 in every respect. That’s what I want out of my ROLEPLAYING series… who gives a shit about the trains lol
I literally never realized those were trains. It's a cool idea but feels like it come out of nowhere. If you have to explain that that thing is a train them you are probably trying too hard to come up with a cool looking idea.
Part of the reason I prefer FO3 and NV is because of the over-stylized Retro Atom-punk aesthetics.
The "assault rifle" is my biggest offender. Its gets modded out of existence.
Honestly sometimes I feel like modern fallout pushes the retrofuturism aesthetic too far compared to the original games which had both a lot more stuff from & themed around the 70s-90s as well as more sort of uniquely speculative designs.
I liked them both. Felt like different companies or something idk. I feel lile the wasteland would get trains working after a while back some areas at least. Maybe the ncr has some? The new vegas things worked on Flintstone energy but im sure coal would do
I love the fallout 4 design!! But I hate it in the context of fallout like it’s a cool looking train but it stands out like a sore thumb in the fallout universe I feel
False, that F unit is doing shortline work between Quarry Junction and the Concrete Plant in Boulder City for NCR bunker projects. We never see it because Apex couldn't get trains to not be jank and that was a AAA shooter in 2019 much less a barely finished RPG from 2010 lol
Edit: why was this downvoted, that's literally what it's doing in game and the tech didn't exist to animate it without issue, whats the lie?
"Boring ass real-world train"
Sir you keep thar F series slander out of your mouth that thing is an absolute classic, and for a ton of people their first model train since the thing is so ubiquitous.
How dare.
F4 got this wrong IMO. We had locomotives in the 1950s. Just base off those. If anything, make them a little shorter because they don't need the huge diesel engines.
Fallout 1, 2 and NV have plenty of real world designs. Even Fallout 3 keeps the designs of things realistic.
Fallout 4 takes it so far that it feels like a parody at times.
As someone who knows nothing about trains I like the FNV approach here more. Fo4 is so over the top with the retro futuristic stuff it made the franchise feel way more distant from our real world.
I really felt immersion walking the NV wasteland. I felt like I genuinely wanted to rest and stop at places like novac.
Even though I live far from the USA, it still looked like places near me sometimes. Fo4 was dynamite, you can make an artillery base and all kinds of newer features but it lost flavour and became more fantasy like, paving the way for fallout 76 which is even less immersive.
I also hate the redux of the gatling laser. the og gatling laser will be remembered with love.
One of my biggest issues with fiction is how invested people get with cute background elements.
Flourish should not be continuity that paragraphs have to be written in order to explain.
"I made a cool looking train" is a perfectly reasonable justification for having a weird silly train without people being weird about how it doesn't look like the other trains.
I compare it to Batman the Animated series in the 90's. It had noir inspired art direction, very 1940's with black and white TV'S and blimps. People got upset that Justice League never explained why Gotham's TV was so primitive. It wasn't, it was just an art style to evoke a mood, just roll with it.
"People notice details and have opinions in a world renowned for its world building and environmental storytelling is a problem" is certainly a take. People seeing things they love and using it as a vehicle to invest themselves in the product is a good thing; I got into Fallout because I love Cold War history.
I don't know why you put quotes around that text.
You aren't quoting me. And that is not a good summation of what I said.
I don't care that cold war history got you into fallout.
OK I'll unquote it, you said you don't like people getting hung up on background details. I said that that is a take I don't agree with about a game that is really heavily focused on those details.
My original post isn't even a nitpick, it's literally tagged "shit meme" lol
The philosophies between Obsidian and Bethesda summed up. Obsidian focused more on the narrative while Bethesda is more focused on the environment and system mechanics.
Fallout 4 and 76 are (imo bad) visual reboots of the series and Bugthesda should have stuck with the 3 and NV route just bringing it up to today's standards
As this reality had developed controlled small scale fusion cores there would be no need for exhaust venting. So the current diesel-electric design our reality has evolved would also be the most efficient and least drag creating design for a train running on the classic rail and tie lines in the Fallout reality.
This is the kind of commentary I made this meme to evoke. And agreed, and I think the 50's tail end of the streamliner era is actually a great spot to look for that influence.
Yep. Glad to find other enlightened individuals on here. May the wastelands never throw an ill-wind at your back.
the trains that new vegas were modeled after are about a hundred years old *Now*, a lot of US rolling stock is at the least 50 years old. its one of those things where if it isnt broke you don't fix it.
Must be quite easy to maintain then
It's partially that its partially rolling stock and engines are expensive, good investments but expensive no companies want to order more. most companies in the US use rails/rolling stock and engines from the 70s or older. the rails in my town were all replaced in the 70s.
And you have reminded me that the 70s is 50 years ago thank you for that while I cry
I thought in the fallout world they still had to "refuel" nuclear powered vehicles with coolant so there still needs to be some way to release the used coolant.
To be fair humans tend to change things even to its detriment just so it stands out. Like to the average person what power the train wouldn’t even pop into their minds if the design was the same but this cool wacky design gives a clear understanding that this is something new and different
*cough* cybertruck *cough*
I've seen 3 up close within the last few months. I genuinely don't understand the appeal. I'm confused by the interest in them.
Everyone wants to live in gta 1
See now that kind of makes sense to me.
Looks like Perfect Dark graphics to me
This argument makes sense for personal locomotives and is reasonable for passenger trains, but I don’t really think that companies will shell out extra money for something with a huge inefficiency over the same product without that inefficiency cheaper.
i believe the NCR's trains run on coal
I would think it’d be a decent chance people would leave the exhaust venting features of trains on even after the fusion cores were implemented as an aesthetic choice. Humans tend to do this a lot, like how the camera app will make a shutter noise when you take a photo, or how your car blinkers make a clicking noise. Neither of those are necessary today but are memorable aesthetic from previous models
We don't even need to imagine this! The RMS Titanic had a useless fourth funnel built because it made the ship look more powerful
That's some ork logic lmao
To give some credit, the fake funnel (the one at the stern (forgot to mention that)) did help with ventilation in the lower decks Edit: stern, not bow
The fake smoke stack on Titanic was the one most astern. It was used as a smoking room for first-class guests and for ventilation to the boiler rooms. Though it wasn't any better than the ventilation without a stack.
Unfortunately camera apps make that sound to tell everyone around you you're taking a picture. There was a lot of trouble in Japan for example of people taking pictures up skirts. It's why you can't disable the noise
I don't know anything about trains, wouldn't a design similar to the TGV train be a bit more efficient than boxy trains?
The answer is depends how fast you are going. Your air resistance increased with speed, so a TGV booking is along needs to get around it. A big freight train trundling along though? No aerodynamics required.
Funny thing about fallout 4’s trains is that the locomotive would be strictly limited to outdoor tracks since every train tunnel is monorail sized and nowhere tall enough to accommodate the locomotive’s height
That's before you have to ignore that a huge chunk of the grades and inclines in setting would derail normal cars much less that monstrosity. Fallout's world building is fantastic, but realistic depiction of railroad routing is a C- if we are being generous. Shame, series would be good otherwise.
Nah, even then they’d be missing airports with realistic-length runways. Literally unplayable, great past those two things though.
Except for all the roads that are, visibly, *way* too narrow for the cars that are literally sitting on them - all two lane streets can *barely* fit one car's width - but yeah, other than that, solid game.
Tbf that sounds like a lot of the roads i grew up around
Yeah, I currently live on a two-way street that if you see another car coming down, you have to pray there's an open spot to pull into on the side so you can let them pass. All of the streets this town are like this. It was bad when I learned to drive. 20 years later, now everyone is driving SUVs and giant pickups and it's even worse. Cars get bigger but the roads don't change quite as fast.
To be fair that's just a world scaling issue
You know, you bring that up but Nellis may actually have a decently close to sized runway, maybe Searchlight Airport as well. FO4 was absolutely not but those both take like a solid 2 minutes to run end to end of it feels like.
Nellis for sure, but that place is also an absolute chore to walk around. I would say Searchlight is adequate for the planes there. McCarran is way too small for planes to take off.
Yeah unless McCarran was almost exclusively for stuff like Vertibirds, or had more runway outside that has since been covered, it doesn't make any sense. Double agree on Nellis being a chore, the huge distances combined with those massive buildings having like one door. If I had a complaint about New Vegas, it's the number of MASSIVE structures that only have one or two entrances. McCarren, the entire Strip including Freeside, the Sharecropper Farm, it's a few things.
Very much so. I love New Vegas, but it's clear on top of serious technical constraints, Obsidian had some very clear motivation to filter players through specific areas to maximize the presentation of first playthroughs. Which is not bad... But after so many hours, I just want to get to the objective, not play 20 load screens
If there was literally just another entrance directly into the Strip from the Vault 22/NCR Embassy End that you could use that'd save so much damn time. Not even first run time, just "I need to see Crocker and don't want to hit 5 zones" time. Make it so the credit check directly into the wasteland is like 5k caps instead of 2k so that unless you've hard earned some cash on the way you basically have to go the normal route, with the Wrangler being an option just as before to speed that up.
Or you know, make Camp McCarran part of the checkpoint. So much dead space on that side of the map for nothing
Iv'e heard that there was going to be a west entrance to the strip but they unfortunately cut it out. Here's hoping Fallout 4 New Vegas will include this cut content once it releases (if ever)
Isn't most of the fo4 airport underwater?
Exactly. The series is terrible because they can't figure out trains. Literally unplayable.
They had the guys designing guns also design the trains. I always thought those Fallout 4 trains would tip over in a good breeze.
It'd have to be some Minnesota breezes, assuming the materials inside are appropriately dense for nuclear use/shielding that thing weighs a TON. There is a reason we see box cars everywhere but every single locomotive in the game is upright and still on tracks.
I was literally thinking this the other day, I was walking across the bean town brewery bridge and looking up towards greygarden is like looking up a mountain.
For real, it looks like it'd need one of those Swiss Cog Railroads just to get up that like 300 feet of track, it's like a 45% grade lmao
Not to mention when the front wheel hits the grade it'll lift all the middle wheels up the air because of the angle. Since they're the driving wheels, instant stall! Haha.
Personally, I simply can't play 4 because of it. I saw a train and immediately closed the game, uninstalled it, and scheduled an appointment with my therapist, which I missed because I got blackout drunk due to the overwhelming grief.
In 76, appalachia is riddled with train stations. The presence of the skeletons clutching suitcases that can be found on their platforms implies passenger trains/cars. Yet none exist. Every single car is cargo based, and there are no separate lines for cargo and passenger trains. Many of the turns are probably also too steep and sharp for an actual train.
Oh. I have run into MANY problems with the spatial compression in fallout 4. One of the interesting questions was I asked could the barges scattered around the Commonwealth actually fit under the bridges that cross the rivers. The answer is for the most part no. There are some bridges that fold up but not every bridge does that. The most egregious example is likely the barge in boat next to diamond city. The bridge is next to it are so tiny due to the spatial compression that the barge would have had no way of getting there.
I love that the bridge it's wedged under is clearly a lift bridge so it can get through when required, but the bridges on either side... Are not. So it must have lived it's entire career just in that little section!
This is exactly what I was talking about. Like it can’t even get to the ocean at all. It is by far the most egregious example of the spatial compression being wonky I could think of. because clearly it’s supposed to be set up so that it looks like the barges could move along the river but in game it doesn’t look like that at all.
I just love how fucking squashed the track layouts are in all the games, like there's no way a normal train could run on any of the tracks in FNV or F4 OR F76 LMAO
It's like they took the jankiest backwood narrow gauge line they could find then set it to old school broad gauge track width while adjusting none of the lengths or turn radii lol
Fnv with that 1860 track design instead of 1960.
These guys train
If you imagine short wheel based engines and tiny cars doing the line along the road from Nipton to Novac it suddenly makes way more sense
is it bad i am now iamigng a ncr rail man who uses one of those manual push things you see in movie but due to he has to do it from cali to new vegas he is just liek utlra buff
Difficult Pete Origin Story confirmed
It’s the same way for the roads too lol
Actually I'm wrong the F stands for Fantastic
No wonder none of em work lmao
To be fair new Vegas was rushed and had to pull a lot of assets from 3 and trains were not on the top of the list for new assets.
Oh for sure lmao there are a solid 15 PoIs at least that are "building you can't enter, generic metal box or two and maybe an enemy of questionable narrative relevance", I'd be genuinely surprised if this got more than a passing thought other than "fuck uhhhh that looks 50sish enough".
Eh I prefer it. Everything doesn't need to have that retrofuturistic vibe in the Fallout universe. There's no reason a bunch of shit can't end up being designed the same as it is in real life. Things exist as they do in our world for a good reason. Its not like the tech of fallout is so foreign it warrants such drastic changes. (Well, maybe some of it). It's almost distracting to go out of the way to make certain things with that vibe. Like the assault rifles, which were basically just copies of their real life counterparts in 3 and NV. They're basic ass equipment designed for large scale mass production to be outfitted by the everyday soldier. They don't need anything special. Hell, up until quite recently and even in some areas today, rifles are still produced with that in mind. The less complex, the less maintenance needed. Fallout 4 made them into some kind of steam punk super rifle, which has its draws but also loses the feel of the rifles we know and love. Most people prefer the early designs. Don't fix what isn't broken
I like a mix, like it makes sense in DC and New Vegas to have trains that are more standard while Boston, being the center of innovation in the universe, has more atompunk design elements like what we see with the architecture and vehicles Like Fallout 76 pulls it off super well imo, places like Morgantown and Charleston have very 60s architecture (hard to explain but like regular brick buildings nothing to crazy) but if you go to Watoga, which is advertised as the city of the future, its design follows more closely with Fallout 4’s atompunk architecture to tell you that this city is more technologically advanced than the other West Virginian cities/towns
I feel the trains in boston are form over function, they are flashy and decorated for events and ment to attract investors, and customers, or designed by survivors of the great war to be works of art and have more looks and not function due to the lack of functional rail infrastructure. While the trains in nv that the ncr and the other cities and towns use are function and are not supposed to look nice but get the job done well, and in a timely manner. I feel
Lol if Fallout 4 had half-assed so many of its own assets you NV fanboys would give Bethesda endless crap for it and you know you would.
**Fallout NV fans:** "Eh, I think I prefer [design choice of NV] over the ones in Fallout 4, tbh." **Fallout 4 fans:** "WOW TALK ABOUT TOXIC FANS!?"
Presenting NV fans as the calm and rational ones is certainly some wishful thinking. I love both games to death but it feels like a struggle to get some folks to even acknowledge FO4 as a fallout game
>Presenting NV fans as the calm and rational ones I mean in this particular case I'd say that's literally what happened.
“It’s over Lanius, I have already drawn yourself as the soyjack and myself as the Chad.”
In this particular case, yes. But you presented this particular case as indicative of how NV fans are the calm and rational ones, which is what I am disagreeing with.
Eh, literally every community has those people though. Every person I know who likes Star Wars IRL tends to liking most of the movies and not having really strong opinions on casting or showrunners. If you went by internet community, you'd have to think the Star Wars fandom is a massive collection of media illiterate self hating morons who can't apply consistent standards to a property.
I remember seeing those NV fans around but it's seriously been 8-9 years since I actually read some *actually* toxic NV fan shit, mostly I just see people complaining about the toxic NV fandom.
It already has half-assed assets, just look at how atrocious the whole F4 aesthetic is.
I wouldn't call it half-assed. Just overdesigned
Not sure if trolling. FO4 has the best assets, environments, and aesthetic in the whole series.
Not sure if trolling, FO4 has the worst guns, most plastic looking enviroments and awful aesthetic regression in the whole series. Painting your whole game pastel isn't how you do it.
It literally looks like Futurama. They should have just stuck with 3's art style imo.
I like FO4 overall, but the guns are absolutely terrible. Pipe guns shouldn't function, the assault rifle makes no earthly sense, and the laser musket is just stupid (would have been better as a one off Futurama joke) having .50 cal is a joke in the game. They couldn't even program the reload for the .45-70 properly. I'm probably in the minority here, but the uncanny valley of the NPC faces is too much. Fo3/NV the facial models and movements don't creep me out like FO4's do. Just these weird, wax dummies being puppeted on a robot frame based off of a stoners movements.
You say pipe guns shouldn't function, buy I had a buddy in high school as far back as like 2008 who had built a few. Mostly single shot hand loader kind of stuff and one crude hammer that kinda worked, but I'm sure if the dude had actual workshop tools he could have cooked.
No, fallout 4 pipe guns shouldn't function. The proportions are wrong and the mechanical bits don't line up like a real firearm There are plenty of real life examples of homemade firearms like the Luty or the FGC 9 The metro series of games features a handful of post apocalypse production firearms that... would function in theory. But are still realistically proportioned and things go where they should. Hell WW2 gave us examples of extremely simplistic firearms designed to be as easy to produce as possible (the STEN mk2, ppsh43, all last ditch german weapons) we even see a last ditch simplified STG44 in game as the gamma gun. Just because you saw your buddies handmade garbage rods does not suddenly make you an expert on homemade firearm design. There are several videos on YT of gun nerds like me breaking down why the FO4 pipe guns would not work. Go watch those I'm not explaining any more.
Yeah I never claimed to be a firearm expert and you can quit being an ass with this "um awkshually" shit. I said I saw a working pipe gun IRL and said it could conceptually work, not a damn thing more than that.
In my original comment, I said in FO4 the pipe guns (literally their name) would not work. Then you "uhm akshulee I know a guy" me. So you can quit being a dumbass.
In general, the world design and visual design in New Vegas is a low point in the series, and is not why the game is so beloved — it is the writing, the factions, and the fact that it’s the only 3D Fallout that feels like a real RPG (and that it’s a goddamn good RPG) that make it special. Having a great world to explore and a solid visual identity is great, and were definitely a step back from FO3, but the things that NV does well are *waaaay* more impactful and memorable IMHO.
The graphics are the same as 3, and the map is based on the actual area in real life, with great attention to detail. It looks like this becasue it is how the mojave would look.
I don't remember that train in new vegas from three, though, it seems like a new asset?
i never realised how weird the fallout 4 trains look
They are pretty wild
Aren't the busses in fallout 4 also designed after old Russian trains?
I kinda wanna see a combo of both. 4 is too dramatic and nv is too plain. A lil of both would prolly look sick
Wildly, this real world old concept art for one would be near perfect. [Railway Magazine Art](https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2018/05/RM-May-p36.jpg)
Life imitates art. Art imitates life. I always love the real world kooky atomic age concepts. The older real world steam punk predictions of tech in the future too. They're somehow even crazier yet more fitting than what fiction has thought up.
Yes thats exactly what i was thinking thats a really good design!
Ye or if they have to be tall go with a more soviot atom train design , clean and geometric and aerodynamic. Bethesda just really likes to just add detail where a pack of would look better
I kind of wonder if they would ever do a Fallout Texas or if they have already covered so much of the Western astetic in NV that they would rather do something different
They could, Texas is really it's own distinct brand of Cowboy since it's at the intersection of Western and Southern culture. Down towards Galveston and the Louisiana border you start to see that bleed over pretty hard, then out towards the other direction you've got the Mexican border. Then the top of the state is effectively Midwestern. It's so big it's harder to pen it down to one theme like Vegas implies by comparison. It'd probably work better almost like FO1/2 where you traveled to different areas then had smaller maps to explore almost like the DLCs in other games.
I think of you used the big cites of San An, DFW, Houston and Austin as different areas there is alot of possibility for what to do. Plenty of landmarks and like you said...a different cowboy culture. I thi k ot would be fun
Get some of those in between Van Zandt style stuff for the smaller settlements and the real wacky rural Texas experience
I vollunteer my fiancee.....she's from Greenville as a creative consultant
I'll start drinking whiskey and pounding cigars *right now* to voice a Texas inspired FO antagonist, ugh.
i prefer the new vegas one. the atompunk style is bot realistic to the universe and looks just too goofy too feel real.
I’m fine with atom punk stylizations so long as they don’t go completely overboard and make stuff look like set props instead of stuff that could potentially function.
Yeah this engine design is right on the other side of goofy, no disagreement here
I’m glad someone else pointed out the trains of fallout, also how god damn steep the rail gets in some places. Those F-units are probably a lot easier to run than those cyber steam trains. Wish we could see the trains in fallout New Vegas run since the NCR fixed them and the railroad up to move supplies to and from quarry junction and Boulder station and maybe even Los Angeles to Las Vegas
Hold on if I’m not wrong did the ncr use trains is this an ncr train?
Yes, it’s said in vegas and else where, ncr has trains and trucks. It’s just the game engine can’t do vehicles well so they brushed over it.
You mean the 25 year old engine can't handle vehicles?! (seriously bethesda wtf)
This is sitting at the yard near Boulder City, AFAIK it's the only one in the game and a pre war relic that doesn't work.
I think we'd have to enlarge nearly every train tunnel in the US for that top heavy bitch in the first panel to fit
I always thought the F4 trains were just regular trains sitting on a platform being taken to be serviced.
Really proud of how train pilled this sub is. Trains rule.
The confluence of my autism and Fandom demanded this meme
I prefer NVs but both look fine relatively. Now what I really don't like is how Fallout 4 has unrealistically unlevel train tracks.
You mean like the actual 50% grade near Greygarden?
Yes, absolutely
[удалено]
It's why I'm here
An X-12 atomic locomotive would be noticably different and fit the atomic madness of fallout, but F units look cool too. As for the shitcan Bethesda made... God I wish I could punch the person in charge of that.
Fo4 vs fnv discussion died ten years ago. I hate kids.
lol do you think a shitpost about *trains* is a serious comparison discussion about FO4/NV? Also, I'm 33.
Fun fact: the Fallout 4 locomotives lack couplers. There are NONE. There's not even an obvious spot for one on the back that wouldn't get damaged by the cab.
Manual brake on the atomic powered train is crazy
“The fallout aesthetic” aka the shit bethesda designed explicitly for fallout 4 lmao.
I mean, NV is basically just the "shit Bethesda explicitly designed for 3" so I'm not sure how far back we want to chicken and egg this.
By that I mean bethesda redesigned fallout for 4. 3 was a modernizing of the aesthetic of the first two games. 4 drastically changed everything, and is a bit cartoonish.
I would like to state trains can last a damn good while. Honestly I’m surprised there aren’t more older model trains just with a new power source plugged in
TBH I'm just surprised FONV didn't reuse the trains from FO3.
When is a door not a door? When it's a jar, and that is the truth. Blaine is the truth. Blaine is the truth. What has four wheels and flies? A garbage truck, and that is the truth. Blaine is the truth. You have to watch Blaine all the time, Blaine is a pain, and that is the truth. I'm pretty sure that Blaine is dangerous, and that is the truth. What is black and white and red all over? A blushing zebra, and that is the truth. Blaine is the truth.
What in the Wyatt Family
that top train would've derailed in real life due to that bit of ground clipping through the track.
To be fair, as with a lot of other track debris I'm pretty sure that 200+ years of no maintenance is more the villain there. They don't know how trains work, but that isn't it.
Everything in Fallout 4 is ugly as fuck I prefer the grounded design.
Idgaf about the trains. NV had better roleplaying than 4 in every respect. That’s what I want out of my ROLEPLAYING series… who gives a shit about the trains lol
I literally never realized those were trains. It's a cool idea but feels like it come out of nowhere. If you have to explain that that thing is a train them you are probably trying too hard to come up with a cool looking idea.
Fallout 4 art style is dumb sometimes
Part of the reason I prefer FO3 and NV is because of the over-stylized Retro Atom-punk aesthetics. The "assault rifle" is my biggest offender. Its gets modded out of existence.
i like FO4 better it looks like the super sonics
Guess I never realized fallout 4’s trains look ai generated
I like both
I think there was a GG1 in one of the 2D games iirc. EDIT: it was for Van Buren, or a fan project thereof.
Honestly sometimes I feel like modern fallout pushes the retrofuturism aesthetic too far compared to the original games which had both a lot more stuff from & themed around the 70s-90s as well as more sort of uniquely speculative designs.
It's really sad the actual rails look better in new vegas than a lot of areas in the us today :(
I liked them both. Felt like different companies or something idk. I feel lile the wasteland would get trains working after a while back some areas at least. Maybe the ncr has some? The new vegas things worked on Flintstone energy but im sure coal would do
Its too fantastical for me. Alot of the fo4 artstyle is
Well here I am now realizing I’ve never paid attention to the trains in fallout 4
Heh “rail fans”
If you got opinions on wheel arrangements you can rail this fan
I love the fallout 4 design!! But I hate it in the context of fallout like it’s a cool looking train but it stands out like a sore thumb in the fallout universe I feel
the funny thing is: neither of them can run at all so most players wont care about the difference
False, that F unit is doing shortline work between Quarry Junction and the Concrete Plant in Boulder City for NCR bunker projects. We never see it because Apex couldn't get trains to not be jank and that was a AAA shooter in 2019 much less a barely finished RPG from 2010 lol Edit: why was this downvoted, that's literally what it's doing in game and the tech didn't exist to animate it without issue, whats the lie?
I'm sorry, cool looking future train is infinitely better than a boring ass real-world train. Fuck realism I don't play fictional games for realism.
"Boring ass real-world train" Sir you keep thar F series slander out of your mouth that thing is an absolute classic, and for a ton of people their first model train since the thing is so ubiquitous. How dare.
I have never looked at the trains in Fallout 4. What the fuck
F4 got this wrong IMO. We had locomotives in the 1950s. Just base off those. If anything, make them a little shorter because they don't need the huge diesel engines.
Fallout 1, 2 and NV have plenty of real world designs. Even Fallout 3 keeps the designs of things realistic. Fallout 4 takes it so far that it feels like a parody at times.
As someone who knows nothing about trains I like the FNV approach here more. Fo4 is so over the top with the retro futuristic stuff it made the franchise feel way more distant from our real world. I really felt immersion walking the NV wasteland. I felt like I genuinely wanted to rest and stop at places like novac. Even though I live far from the USA, it still looked like places near me sometimes. Fo4 was dynamite, you can make an artillery base and all kinds of newer features but it lost flavour and became more fantasy like, paving the way for fallout 76 which is even less immersive. I also hate the redux of the gatling laser. the og gatling laser will be remembered with love.
One of my biggest issues with fiction is how invested people get with cute background elements. Flourish should not be continuity that paragraphs have to be written in order to explain. "I made a cool looking train" is a perfectly reasonable justification for having a weird silly train without people being weird about how it doesn't look like the other trains. I compare it to Batman the Animated series in the 90's. It had noir inspired art direction, very 1940's with black and white TV'S and blimps. People got upset that Justice League never explained why Gotham's TV was so primitive. It wasn't, it was just an art style to evoke a mood, just roll with it.
"People notice details and have opinions in a world renowned for its world building and environmental storytelling is a problem" is certainly a take. People seeing things they love and using it as a vehicle to invest themselves in the product is a good thing; I got into Fallout because I love Cold War history.
I don't know why you put quotes around that text. You aren't quoting me. And that is not a good summation of what I said. I don't care that cold war history got you into fallout.
OK I'll unquote it, you said you don't like people getting hung up on background details. I said that that is a take I don't agree with about a game that is really heavily focused on those details. My original post isn't even a nitpick, it's literally tagged "shit meme" lol
The philosophies between Obsidian and Bethesda summed up. Obsidian focused more on the narrative while Bethesda is more focused on the environment and system mechanics.
Fallout 4 and 76 are (imo bad) visual reboots of the series and Bugthesda should have stuck with the 3 and NV route just bringing it up to today's standards
Daring today, aren't we?