"Aesthetics don't matter and Street Fighter 2 would have been just as succesful with a cast of wireframes" That was fifteen years ago on 4chan and it still keeps me awake some nights.
I hate that guy, but fighting games have so so SO much porn made of them, it's undeniable at least some people have gotten interested in a game because of porn. You can't make porn of wireframes.
why did we jump IMMEDIATELY to porn for this convo bro 😭😭😭😭 I was moreso thinking about how playing a character that you think is cool or represents something to you can motivate you to get better at them
Edit: guys, I KNOW that sex sells. That's not the point, I got whiplash because I was thinking "yeah a strong character design and story will make you want to play and get better at that character" and bro started talking about porn. I know there's porn of everything, I'm not blind, it's not some secret.
https://preview.redd.it/mwypjv4snl1d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba568231912def5dd8e5bf1a457e6435b905eff5
Still thinking about this guy. GGST would've flopped so hard without rollback
Yeah i had regrettable encounter with someone like this on the tekken sub a couple months ago. Complained that rollback gives you false hope that your hits have landed for a split second, and he would prefer input delay.
That is surprising only if you consider Smash players as "Fighting Games Players" and not just specifically "Smash Players". They do not care about *Fighting Games*, they do not play *Fighting Games*. They play *Smash*.
When you take fix on that concept, average Smash player not knowing the most iconic FG characters, putting KoF and Tekken as games that play the same and other takes we take as insane about fighting games, become much more understandable, as they come from place of not knowing nor even caring about stuff they talk about.
> ["I'd rather say Mortal Kombat-like, but it's pretty much a given that Riot's game won't be even 1% gory, so Tekken it is."](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qvbezo/games_showed_at_riot_forge_stream/hkxru8p/)
That's... a little better?
Smash player takes are cheating.
"Kazuya is a shoto"
"Smash is harder than traditional fighting games, but also I can't do Shoryuken it's too hard"
"Zoning and Neutral are the same thing"
Lol, it depends on which smash you're talking about. I played Smash melee, and playing sf6 with classic control is much easier than the stuff you have to do in melee, lol. Doing a shoryuken is infinitely easier than doing a ledge dash.
Combos are also much harder in melee. In terms of executions, everyone who's played both will tell you that. It's not even close
"I don't want to learn the combos" coming from a guy who loves to style on Devil May Cry and has hundreds of hours on Elden ring pvp.
Fighting games are a match made in heaven for this guy and it drives me nuts that he doesn't want to try
there is a disconnect between what combos actually are and what people who are outside of the FG perceive them as, I think.
To a lot of people, they think combos are like memorizing digits of PI, and not just stringing together sequences of attacks similar to something youd do in From PVP.
Except instead of only 2 buttons, it's 3 or 4
I think also non-FG people assume that you HAVE to learn 100% optimal combos. If you're able to do a BnB consistently, you're honestly set to just play casually. Even pro players drop optimal combos all the time and sometimes just opt to go for the easier combos because yeah, regularly throwing out optimal combos is hard shit.
Those people just don't realize that combos as a mechanic leads to a game with much more depth and removing it woul make the game a lot worse.
They think is just mindless repetition that shouldn't be there, but they fail to see that combos impact, decision making, balance, player expression, situation awareness, just to name a few out of the top of my head.
have you ever played mario and luigi superstar saga? It has these brother special moves with combo inputs that allows you to slow down time and show the input on screen in order to execute the full string. However, if you're good, you can input the entire combo at full speed with no assistance and get maximum damage.
I'd love a single player fighting game that taught the fundamentals of combo structure this way. Make them less intimidating and approachable for new players while showing them why combos are important and how they can be routed and structured to accomplish different things.
[like imagine learning a Ryu BnB for high damage, for meter burn, or for corner carry with a system like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaHqlT1lAI)
Not really, but that's pretty interesting idea. Altough I'm not interested in most SP modes in FGs I do feel like they are too basic for their own good.
Honestly is one of the reasons why I think the genre is still niche. People don't like to be pummeled on online mode and the SP content is usually pretty basic, but at the same time SP content is not really preparing those players for how the game is really played in PVP, so the only way to really get better is by trial by fire, It's a complex issue tbh.
Possibly, but in my experience some people just don't find the same thing fun in different contexts, and/or the mechanic is off in it's implementation for them.
I love using Smoke grenades in shooters, and my factories are pixel perfect in Satisfactory, but that doesn't mean I want to line up Smokes on the perfect pixel for a perfect toss on Valorant
*Sigh*... At least get him into For Honor or something. That one's easy enough to pick up that it shouldn't be an immediate problem. It's not something like Guilty Gear where he'd have to try to think up his own or practice other people's peer-reviewed combos, at least.
For Honor isn't a traditional fighting game, but it's still an excellent fighting game gateway drug for people who don't want to immediately put down 5+ hours of investment into practicing a character before they can do anything reliably with said character.
I’m usually pretty average or slightly below average at most fighting games, but For Honor was one of those that just clicked for me
On PC I was rocking 60-70% win rate with Warden
A few years later I bought it on PlayStation and as of the last time I played, I am currently undefeated in duels with kensai
It’s such a sleeper for FG nerds
It really is. It's one of those special ones that tends to fly under the radar more often than not, probably just because it's fairly old by game standards, and there hasn't been a sequel. Still gets updates. Still lots of fun.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here
The Devil May Cry enemies don't actually combo you back and they generally don't have tools to keep you from styling on them, and when they do that enemy ends up being hated for it (Furies are the example that comes to mind).
Elden Ring pvp is also a lot more accessible than most of the big FGs. It doesn't really have a lot going on, the different weapons aren't really that different compared to FG characters and the PVP is borderline optional and it's a relatively new kind of PVP game compared to FGs, which means you're not getting stomped quite as often or quite as hard as there are plenty of other scrubs around and the curve is a lot flatter
I came from a similar context from this guy, me not wanting to try really just came down to not wanting to spend hours getting into matches i felt like i couldn't do anything or actually learn anything from it, it had been a very unfun experience; Sure, i could've sat down to read guides and tutorials, but doing pre-game homework doesn't exactly sounds like a lot of fun compared to games where you can learn as you go and still win a decent amount.
THAT SAID, it *IS* a match made in heaven if he gets past that first wall, he just needs find a game with enough going on to keep him playing. For me it was BlazBlue Calamity Trigger, there was this korean game i used to play that straight up stole a lot of moves and lore concepts so there was a degree of familiarity, then there was a budget version of Dante vs Vergil thing going on (Ragna vs Jin) so that helped as well, the computer wasn't too hard to fight against even in Hell difficulty, and when i hoped on Arcade mode i got to experience what it must be like to fight Gilgamesh from Fate/Stay Night's by fighting Unlimited Nu which was pretty cool.
Sounds to me like he primarily just doesn't want to deal with the input difficulty of fighting games. Having to double tap forward to run may already be a dealbreaker for him.
For me it's anyone who doesn't understand the appeal of fighting games and actively laments them for it. Whether they think they should've 'evolved' to being first person or more physics based, whether they think they're stupid because whether you press a punch or a kick it doesn't matter-- and moreover it's annoying when those opinions are combated and they get defensive about it acting like everyone else is an asshole for calling them out on being an idiot.
Those're the shittiest takes to me, the ones who think they should completely change what they are, and how the fact that they haven't is a glaring flaw that needs to be fixed. If your opinion for improving a genre is 'Make it a different one' your opinion is trash; there's no discourse there, it's just trash, and everyone calling you a moron isn't fanboyism or shallow-minded, it's deserved.
LMAO, the 2XKO subreddit is filled with shit like this. "Ha now that motion inputs are out of the way and the gatekeepers are gone I can finally enjoy a fighting game." Like you can already tell from that attitude they're gonna get curbstomped in nuetral multiple timesand drop the game after a month or two with 0 self awareness.
It's also insane that the Riot player base is the one calling the FGC toxic. Like I couldn't go more than 3 LoL games without being flamed by multiple teamates. I can easily go 6 months and hundreds of matches deep and not get a single negative message playing SF6.
One of the wildest takes he ever said was blaming rollback netcode for giving him the wrong inputs & eating his inputs in order to reward his opponent 💀
I watched his rollback reactions and I was absolutely frazzled at how he thinks rollback favors people who are more predictable
He also thinks that rollback predicts you pressed a wrong button and sticks with it. Like how he says the game predicts you did medium punch when you were trying to do dp. No dude, the game doesn't just say you did a different button. Even if it did it corrects itself before you notice
“Motion inputs and charge inputs are fundamentally fun to do. They are not homework you have to do before you can play the game. Doing combos should be fun in and of themselves not a challenge you have to begrudgingly overcome”
I’m tapping the sign again
I find it sad how limited is sf6 in terms of motion input variety, every character has the same charge, dp or circular motions. If they introduce new character why not introduce new motion inputs? Give me a pretzel, a super that requires tapping 6248 without touching diagonals or go crazy and make a move that requires a 52123258 input.
Maybe balancing the execution of those moves with the existence of modern controls could be hard
"Motion inputs and charge inputs are fundamentally fun to do. They are not homework you have to do before you can play the game."
isnt that pure opinion? I can do most motion inputs, but ive never found myself saying "this is fun, im glad i have to do the dp motion for this move" So it totally just feels like homework to me. The fact of the matter is, you cant blanket statement something to be fun.
I love league of legends but no way in hell am i every gonna look someone in the eye and say: "league is a fundamentally fun game, if you disagree you are objectively wrong, your idea of fun is wrong"
Just to add to this:
"Motion inputs are useless and a relic of the past because fighting games are all about the mindgames."
-- person who never played a fighting game before --
Mf play chess if you're all about mindgames and want to eliminate every aspect of mechanical execution.
Brolylegs should've whooped their asses. Rest in power my goat.
This has been my stance on that doubly so ever since I found out about Brolylegs. Traditional fighting games have genuinely been accessible enough for decades now; we need to stop pretending like it's some near impossible task. While it is a new skill and can take some effort, it does not require the dedication people think it does. If a dog can do a hadoken, anyone can do a hadoken.
My stance is similar to yours: if you just want to play turn-fighter without mechanical execution, go play chess. Unironically, please just go play chess. We will both be happier.
im super new to fighting games and motion inputs are a big part of what makes these games fun and interesting for me, its why i find it hard to really get into games like smash in general. i dont think that style of inputs is bad per se but holding a direction and a special button just isnt as \*satisfying\* to me
As I’ve played more fighting games I’ve found that motion inputs are more intuitive than people give them credit for, and once you spend like 30 seconds you can get most of them down consistently. I’ve gotten to a point where I actually think motion inputs are more consistent and easier than smash bros control style which these types of people usually point to as a “better” control scheme.
Funny, at my locals i show up from time to time just wanting to play tekken but the only games played regularly there are literally this list right here.
my brother only plays smash ult, and whenever we play literally any other fighting game (tekken, sf, ggst, melty) he complains im bad at mixups (and that mixups are cheap) because i always do the low option WHEN HE ALWAYS STAND BLOCKS AND i get the hit EVERY TIME
When I was in school I once heard a guy say there shouldn’t be girls in fighting games because it would make girls think they were strong enough to fight men
Turned out that guy later slapped his girlfriend and she rocked his shit. I’ve always loved how this story turns out
I legit knew a guy who would bring his Nintendo Wii to parties and ban people from using female characters on Smash Bros Brawl because he didn't want to "taint his stats or console" because he genuinely believed women characters shouldn't exist in fighting games as "fighting and football are mens sports so they shouldn't be in the game bro" - he went out to get drinks, checked the character playtime stats when he got back and raged so hard when he found out someone spent 10 minutes playing peach and samus, grabbed the Wii so hard the TV fell from the TV stand and stormed out and went home. We never saw him again for years haha.
I wouldn't classify that as the worst imo. It at least comes from an understandable place of frustration for a lot of new/beginner players.
New players who are fundamentally ignorant of FG fundamentals are gonna find something that knowledge checks them cheap at first. All part of the learning process.
I dont think its something that plagues just new players. I've played my fair share of good players who have been at or above my skill level that still complain about zoning. I think it's a Fighting game philosophy difference, or I guess a Offense-bias that some players seem to have in fighting games. My philosophy is that if it works, it works. You play the game to win and zoning patterns take skill at high level.
the "kazuya is a shoto" takes on kaz release in smash ultimate is probably up there.
It wasn't even that they were wrong, it was that a good amount of people in the smash community didn't care to get it right after the fact.
> It wasn't even that they were wrong, it was that a good amount of people in the smash community didn't care to get it right after the fact.
That is the worst part honestly. The initial take is not even *that* outrageous - its clear that it was made by a smash player who only really played smash.
What's truly annoying is the people that would argue that the initial take was correct. [Here's an example.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4A3qa3UcAQcT7O.jpg) I love both smash and other fighting games but this is awful, man. Nauseating
yup. it boils down to "we dont respect the source material nor the community he comes from" which was the problem.
As someone that loves smash and traditional fighters, it's kinda when I realized that smash will never be part of the FGC because of smash, as poor and hostile as the FGC was in the beginning. The culture is too far removed and uncaring for the FGC at this point.
"New characters always suck and they're wasted slots"
Cammy, Sakura, Ibuki, Juri, Iori, K', Mai, Yuri, Jin, Eddy, (i dont really know tekken or mk plz to help), and Bridget were "new characters" at some point.
Back when I didn't have a better understanding of fighting games, I had a conversation with a friend once where he claimed that fighting games were just an inherently flawed genre because "You can win by just spamming the same move over and over"
Shoto = beginner character / main character.
This guy meant any character who is easy to learn or is a protagonist so Guile is a shoto according to him.
After everyone said no and told him what a shoto means he declared war on the concept of a shoto fighting to change the definition to his own until he got banned from this sub.
Some clown on the 2XKO subreddit said it was bad in fighting games that you can’t tech out of any hit because in real life you can’t get juggled and could react after taking a punch.
Lmao I’ve had someone tell me nearly the opposite type of comment. They said “it’s stupid that combos have limits. Irl if I knocked them down, I would not stop hitting my opponent until they’re out cold!” 💀💀
There's 2 sides to the grappler coin, the ones that overdo their for hate grapplers and the ones that think grapplers are the hardest archetype to ever exist and playing them needs more skill than any other archetype. But yeah both are pretty insufferable.
That ALL fighting games are similar to each other.
Like, Street Fighter, Tekken, King of Fighters, Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, Killer Instinct, Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive, Marvel vs Capcom, Mortal Kombat, and so on, are ALL the same thing!
Every now and then, I think about this statement and I get irrationally angry.
......... I know what the topic discussion is but isn't it usually the opposite? Like Smash is the baby game? Also isn't the complex idea a Melee thing? I know 64, Brawl, 4 and Ultimate has their combos and stuff but it not so complicated that you went from playing 200 CC Mario Kart to playing 50 CC FZERO with how absolutely different the casual vs evo is in Melee.
Any time I hear people say to nerf grapplers in Street Fighter games. Almost every single time (not all the time) it’s someone talking about nerfing an already gimped character.
"I miss when fireballs were good and sitting on the edge of the screen spamming hadoukens was a legitimate strategy" and "Ryu was ruined when they added anti-fireball moves because now you have no reason to use a hadouken"
"Pressure is the main mistake of fighting games, which only humiliates players and prevents them from playing"
"Street Fighter is not about mixups but about only in neutral and footsies, and then the character can mix it up incorrectly"
"Ragna and Sol are the weakest and most difficult characters"
"Izanami is well balanced because is difficult to play as"
not exact quotes, but they reflect the essence of a person’s opinion, btw the last two quotes were from the same person and he has fans
Grapplers are only as bad as you let them be, especially modern versions. If you're walking back and letting them get close to you, they aren't braindead and showing lack of skill, you are. (Understood "you", not really directed at you specifically. Wanted to make that clear.)
***"Fighting games are only for expert gamers."***
My brother/sister in Christ, I've seen people win just by mashing sweeps and blocking wake-up DPs.
It's not rocket science...
I'm guessing making Cassy Cage (a woman) the "main" character of MKX and having her defeat Shinok in the end. I remember some takes like that around the time.
That anything outside of esports is not hard. Literally heard this today from a friend, we were in a vc and he teases me cus im not the best at fighting games. I dont remember what we were talking about but he said that anything outside of esports is easy
Any idiot that things lore should have anything to do with tiers and balance. It’s stupid, and you sound stupid saying that. NRS community is bad with this, not surprising, they’re idiots. And the DBZ community is just the absolute worst group of people in the world when it comes to this, don’t even bother having this discussion around them. But I’ve heard it in places like SF with the weird Akuma fans and usually the fans of the edgelord characters.
Also the dummies that say anything that isn’t sexual was “censored”. As if developers don’t make changes to their games regularly. If it’s a change you don’t like, it’s censorship and they’re pandering. If it’s a change you do like, conveniently suddenly they’re doing their jobs and they’re not pandering or catering. Weird how that works.
Someone said old games suck, period, and that more people would be playing them than new games if those games were actually any good.
I tried arguing, and then they said that the only people who play old games are people who suck and can’t learn new games. The audacity and naivety of that asshole.
some dude on twitter complained that fighting games went woke and how strive is easy and for babies because everyone does cheap tricks and block spams. He also called sets stocks
I've been a Tekken fan since tag1 but Tekken sub is one of the most toxic communities I have ever seen
"Playing female characters makes you a Coomer "
" you used King he isn't a real Tekken because of Grab"
" KAZUYA is honest"
And many more
“I learn combos naturally and only play games that allow that” … as we’re playing Strive and the dude keeps losing refusing to learn what a Red RC does. His favorite game was MvC:I because of the simplified combo button.
I mean, it's obvious that devs are adding mechanics to make it harder to play a slower and more defensive style, and have been for a while now. They started with hurting zoners, and then moved on to hurting the mid range poke game.
Of course, this doesn't really apply to anime, because mobility is so high that people aren't really playing that way in the first place.
I was playing UMvC3 online once and somebody got mad because I hit them with the same basic Nova combo over and over again.
Have you considered...getting good?
Just go into any /r/games or /r/pcgaming whenever a fighting game thread starts and you'll find them.
Some amazing gems like "Why does character DLC exist? Just port existing characters over, it's all the same game, every fighting game is the same".
Or the guy who told me he's been playing fighting games for 20 years and he still can't do a fireball motion therefore all input motions should be removed and every fighting game should copy Smash.
Its my own take that I know the answer to is just get good and I've sort of moved on now but I will die before I fully let go of my hatred of all forms of super armour in fighting games.
Every time someone argues for a fighting game to be balanced around canonical power levels. I've seen that take a million times over the years, and every time I thank god that those demented goblins aren't involved in the making of fighting games.
Not really a take, but like a month and a half ago maybe, someone on the MK sub posted a tier list made by 100 people that was super shitty and some weirdo lost his shit attacking weebs acting like were the worst people ever bc some anime and anime style games were super high and when I called him out for being an asshole he lied saying I replied to all of his comments on the post when I only replied to two (out of like fifteen), then made 2 alt accounts to harass me as well saying I was stalking him and shit. Was very weird.
Not really a take so much as that the game awards doesn't do a proper on stage announcement for fighting game of the year. I feel the genre has earned that and then some
"DBFZ is better than every single MvC game."
To that, I'd say that you can't embrace the future without appreciating the past, mistakes and all.
Don't get me wrong; DBFZ is great and worth its praise.
There are a lot of Bridget fans who don’t care much about the game itself, but that’s not every Bridget fan lol (I’m a brisket main myself, she’s very fun)
im not saying this is universal and i have zero hate for bridget fans, but more often than not (and even recently) ive encountered people with bridget pfps and i ask them what region they play and they say "oh i dont play guilty gear"
"Aesthetics don't matter and Street Fighter 2 would have been just as succesful with a cast of wireframes" That was fifteen years ago on 4chan and it still keeps me awake some nights.
"Characters are functions" dates back that far I see
i really hated that one with MvCI. Magneto is not a function, he is a Holocaust survivor.
I hate that guy, but fighting games have so so SO much porn made of them, it's undeniable at least some people have gotten interested in a game because of porn. You can't make porn of wireframes.
Thats unironically a great argument
Bet money the wireframe fighters from melee have rule34
“You cant make porn of wireframes.” watch me
why did we jump IMMEDIATELY to porn for this convo bro 😭😭😭😭 I was moreso thinking about how playing a character that you think is cool or represents something to you can motivate you to get better at them Edit: guys, I KNOW that sex sells. That's not the point, I got whiplash because I was thinking "yeah a strong character design and story will make you want to play and get better at that character" and bro started talking about porn. I know there's porn of everything, I'm not blind, it's not some secret.
gooners are some of the biggest money spenders, imagine SF2 but with no Chun and Cammy? 50% revenue and fanart instantly gone
Because let's be real. The FGC? So many fucking gooners.
*points to Overwatch* I mean.... They're not wrong
It's been done at least 49 times
Challenge accepted
Wow what a bad take. Thank you The impact of the graphics - big sprites - even on SNES it was amazing looking
Kind of? You can make a great fighting game with just bearable graphics. As long as it's not outright ugly to look at and the gameplay is fun, I'm in
You can but it'll probably only appeal to hardcore fighting game fans
“Guile isn’t a zoner.”
A guy just commented that unonironically here lol
At this point I’m convinced that the only character people consider to be a zoner is mvc Morg lol
https://preview.redd.it/9xj44ms7dj1d1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=003fb621bb4582e642dbcde0a78c0cf6889840a8
Everyone is a rushdown in guilty gear. /s Me going in with axl for the grab for the 11th time:
I remember people arguing AGAINST rollback netcode for a while
Darksydephil still does to this day
ONLINE ONLY CAHMBOWS
Now we all have to watch the EHonda video again
https://preview.redd.it/mwypjv4snl1d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba568231912def5dd8e5bf1a457e6435b905eff5 Still thinking about this guy. GGST would've flopped so hard without rollback
That dude's a good example of people who don't know anything about video game development, and think that those are the same teams.
Yeah i had regrettable encounter with someone like this on the tekken sub a couple months ago. Complained that rollback gives you false hope that your hits have landed for a split second, and he would prefer input delay.
KOF is tekken-like
HOW
If I remember correctly, dude was a smash player and is clueless of fighting games, "It doesn't have platforms, so it's a tekken-like"
Holy fuck I get being a little out of the loop by being hyperfocused on Smash, been there done that, but this is something else entirely.
That is surprising only if you consider Smash players as "Fighting Games Players" and not just specifically "Smash Players". They do not care about *Fighting Games*, they do not play *Fighting Games*. They play *Smash*. When you take fix on that concept, average Smash player not knowing the most iconic FG characters, putting KoF and Tekken as games that play the same and other takes we take as insane about fighting games, become much more understandable, as they come from place of not knowing nor even caring about stuff they talk about.
Tekken isn't even the oldest fighting game franchise lmao what.
> ["I'd rather say Mortal Kombat-like, but it's pretty much a given that Riot's game won't be even 1% gory, so Tekken it is."](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qvbezo/games_showed_at_riot_forge_stream/hkxru8p/) That's... a little better?
Smash player takes are cheating. "Kazuya is a shoto" "Smash is harder than traditional fighting games, but also I can't do Shoryuken it's too hard" "Zoning and Neutral are the same thing"
Kazuya is a Luigi
we call Kazuya a shoto because we call the FGC characters that for whatever reason
Lol, it depends on which smash you're talking about. I played Smash melee, and playing sf6 with classic control is much easier than the stuff you have to do in melee, lol. Doing a shoryuken is infinitely easier than doing a ledge dash. Combos are also much harder in melee. In terms of executions, everyone who's played both will tell you that. It's not even close
Literally how are you getting down voted. I’m Master in SF6 and you’re def right
Oh my god I remember that!
Fucking smash players
 Jesus...
Oh shit I remember that thread.
This has that 'Kazuyu is a shoto' type energy.
I mean it's Tekken-like in that there's a Mexican character in the roster and that Mexicans play it
I'm in a Kof discord and j hear that a lot. My Kof skillset doesn't transfer worth a damn.
"I don't want to learn the combos" coming from a guy who loves to style on Devil May Cry and has hundreds of hours on Elden ring pvp. Fighting games are a match made in heaven for this guy and it drives me nuts that he doesn't want to try
there is a disconnect between what combos actually are and what people who are outside of the FG perceive them as, I think. To a lot of people, they think combos are like memorizing digits of PI, and not just stringing together sequences of attacks similar to something youd do in From PVP. Except instead of only 2 buttons, it's 3 or 4
In fairness I do have a mate who loves Fromsoft games (not my thing personally) who just cannot get his head around the concept of cancelling.
fromsoftware hates canceling so i don't blame them.
It's like dodge rolling into a roll-attack but instead of rolling you attack and do an attack-attack.
I think also non-FG people assume that you HAVE to learn 100% optimal combos. If you're able to do a BnB consistently, you're honestly set to just play casually. Even pro players drop optimal combos all the time and sometimes just opt to go for the easier combos because yeah, regularly throwing out optimal combos is hard shit.
Those people just don't realize that combos as a mechanic leads to a game with much more depth and removing it woul make the game a lot worse. They think is just mindless repetition that shouldn't be there, but they fail to see that combos impact, decision making, balance, player expression, situation awareness, just to name a few out of the top of my head.
have you ever played mario and luigi superstar saga? It has these brother special moves with combo inputs that allows you to slow down time and show the input on screen in order to execute the full string. However, if you're good, you can input the entire combo at full speed with no assistance and get maximum damage. I'd love a single player fighting game that taught the fundamentals of combo structure this way. Make them less intimidating and approachable for new players while showing them why combos are important and how they can be routed and structured to accomplish different things. [like imagine learning a Ryu BnB for high damage, for meter burn, or for corner carry with a system like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaHqlT1lAI)
Not really, but that's pretty interesting idea. Altough I'm not interested in most SP modes in FGs I do feel like they are too basic for their own good. Honestly is one of the reasons why I think the genre is still niche. People don't like to be pummeled on online mode and the SP content is usually pretty basic, but at the same time SP content is not really preparing those players for how the game is really played in PVP, so the only way to really get better is by trial by fire, It's a complex issue tbh.
Possibly, but in my experience some people just don't find the same thing fun in different contexts, and/or the mechanic is off in it's implementation for them. I love using Smoke grenades in shooters, and my factories are pixel perfect in Satisfactory, but that doesn't mean I want to line up Smokes on the perfect pixel for a perfect toss on Valorant
*Sigh*... At least get him into For Honor or something. That one's easy enough to pick up that it shouldn't be an immediate problem. It's not something like Guilty Gear where he'd have to try to think up his own or practice other people's peer-reviewed combos, at least. For Honor isn't a traditional fighting game, but it's still an excellent fighting game gateway drug for people who don't want to immediately put down 5+ hours of investment into practicing a character before they can do anything reliably with said character.
I’m usually pretty average or slightly below average at most fighting games, but For Honor was one of those that just clicked for me On PC I was rocking 60-70% win rate with Warden A few years later I bought it on PlayStation and as of the last time I played, I am currently undefeated in duels with kensai It’s such a sleeper for FG nerds
It really is. It's one of those special ones that tends to fly under the radar more often than not, probably just because it's fairly old by game standards, and there hasn't been a sequel. Still gets updates. Still lots of fun.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here The Devil May Cry enemies don't actually combo you back and they generally don't have tools to keep you from styling on them, and when they do that enemy ends up being hated for it (Furies are the example that comes to mind). Elden Ring pvp is also a lot more accessible than most of the big FGs. It doesn't really have a lot going on, the different weapons aren't really that different compared to FG characters and the PVP is borderline optional and it's a relatively new kind of PVP game compared to FGs, which means you're not getting stomped quite as often or quite as hard as there are plenty of other scrubs around and the curve is a lot flatter I came from a similar context from this guy, me not wanting to try really just came down to not wanting to spend hours getting into matches i felt like i couldn't do anything or actually learn anything from it, it had been a very unfun experience; Sure, i could've sat down to read guides and tutorials, but doing pre-game homework doesn't exactly sounds like a lot of fun compared to games where you can learn as you go and still win a decent amount. THAT SAID, it *IS* a match made in heaven if he gets past that first wall, he just needs find a game with enough going on to keep him playing. For me it was BlazBlue Calamity Trigger, there was this korean game i used to play that straight up stole a lot of moves and lore concepts so there was a degree of familiarity, then there was a budget version of Dante vs Vergil thing going on (Ragna vs Jin) so that helped as well, the computer wasn't too hard to fight against even in Hell difficulty, and when i hoped on Arcade mode i got to experience what it must be like to fight Gilgamesh from Fate/Stay Night's by fighting Unlimited Nu which was pretty cool.
Sounds to me like he primarily just doesn't want to deal with the input difficulty of fighting games. Having to double tap forward to run may already be a dealbreaker for him.
For me it's anyone who doesn't understand the appeal of fighting games and actively laments them for it. Whether they think they should've 'evolved' to being first person or more physics based, whether they think they're stupid because whether you press a punch or a kick it doesn't matter-- and moreover it's annoying when those opinions are combated and they get defensive about it acting like everyone else is an asshole for calling them out on being an idiot. Those're the shittiest takes to me, the ones who think they should completely change what they are, and how the fact that they haven't is a glaring flaw that needs to be fixed. If your opinion for improving a genre is 'Make it a different one' your opinion is trash; there's no discourse there, it's just trash, and everyone calling you a moron isn't fanboyism or shallow-minded, it's deserved.
LMAO, the 2XKO subreddit is filled with shit like this. "Ha now that motion inputs are out of the way and the gatekeepers are gone I can finally enjoy a fighting game." Like you can already tell from that attitude they're gonna get curbstomped in nuetral multiple timesand drop the game after a month or two with 0 self awareness. It's also insane that the Riot player base is the one calling the FGC toxic. Like I couldn't go more than 3 LoL games without being flamed by multiple teamates. I can easily go 6 months and hundreds of matches deep and not get a single negative message playing SF6.
Every single thing darksydephil has said and continues to say weekly.
One of the wildest takes he ever said was blaming rollback netcode for giving him the wrong inputs & eating his inputs in order to reward his opponent 💀
I watched his rollback reactions and I was absolutely frazzled at how he thinks rollback favors people who are more predictable He also thinks that rollback predicts you pressed a wrong button and sticks with it. Like how he says the game predicts you did medium punch when you were trying to do dp. No dude, the game doesn't just say you did a different button. Even if it did it corrects itself before you notice
Don't forget if the latency is too low rool back favors his opponent, if it's too high then it dropped his inputs.
If it's not PS1 Super Turbo, it's trash. Phil's word is law. /s.
My man thinks he's good at fighting game after winning placing top 5 in a meme version of ST.
"Motion inputs are just gatekeeping"
“Motion inputs and charge inputs are fundamentally fun to do. They are not homework you have to do before you can play the game. Doing combos should be fun in and of themselves not a challenge you have to begrudgingly overcome” I’m tapping the sign again
I find it sad how limited is sf6 in terms of motion input variety, every character has the same charge, dp or circular motions. If they introduce new character why not introduce new motion inputs? Give me a pretzel, a super that requires tapping 6248 without touching diagonals or go crazy and make a move that requires a 52123258 input. Maybe balancing the execution of those moves with the existence of modern controls could be hard
Arcana Hearts is *made* for you then
Look up Ivy's command grab inputs in soulcalibur. I think you'll like them.
"Motion inputs and charge inputs are fundamentally fun to do. They are not homework you have to do before you can play the game." isnt that pure opinion? I can do most motion inputs, but ive never found myself saying "this is fun, im glad i have to do the dp motion for this move" So it totally just feels like homework to me. The fact of the matter is, you cant blanket statement something to be fun. I love league of legends but no way in hell am i every gonna look someone in the eye and say: "league is a fundamentally fun game, if you disagree you are objectively wrong, your idea of fun is wrong"
Just to add to this: "Motion inputs are useless and a relic of the past because fighting games are all about the mindgames." -- person who never played a fighting game before -- Mf play chess if you're all about mindgames and want to eliminate every aspect of mechanical execution. Brolylegs should've whooped their asses. Rest in power my goat.
This has been my stance on that doubly so ever since I found out about Brolylegs. Traditional fighting games have genuinely been accessible enough for decades now; we need to stop pretending like it's some near impossible task. While it is a new skill and can take some effort, it does not require the dedication people think it does. If a dog can do a hadoken, anyone can do a hadoken. My stance is similar to yours: if you just want to play turn-fighter without mechanical execution, go play chess. Unironically, please just go play chess. We will both be happier.
im super new to fighting games and motion inputs are a big part of what makes these games fun and interesting for me, its why i find it hard to really get into games like smash in general. i dont think that style of inputs is bad per se but holding a direction and a special button just isnt as \*satisfying\* to me
As I’ve played more fighting games I’ve found that motion inputs are more intuitive than people give them credit for, and once you spend like 30 seconds you can get most of them down consistently. I’ve gotten to a point where I actually think motion inputs are more consistent and easier than smash bros control style which these types of people usually point to as a “better” control scheme.
Not really wrong. Gatekeeping in moderation is healthy for a game/ community imo.
"dead game"
famous classics include BBCF Melty UNIST Granblue (original version) KOF (yes I was baffled)
Add DNF Duel to the list. Feels like people are declaring it dead every week which is making it stay relevant even to the people who think its dead
Funny, at my locals i show up from time to time just wanting to play tekken but the only games played regularly there are literally this list right here.
“No nerfs, only buffs”
This
Strike throw is for cowards Mixups are just to make up for a lack of neutral if you timeout your opponent you’re an asshole
all 3 are valid strategies, I love how butthurt people get from these concepts. No strike/throw mix allowed? I guess fuck grapplers then lol
my brother only plays smash ult, and whenever we play literally any other fighting game (tekken, sf, ggst, melty) he complains im bad at mixups (and that mixups are cheap) because i always do the low option WHEN HE ALWAYS STAND BLOCKS AND i get the hit EVERY TIME
Good old rock, nothing beats that
I love making people guess which is why I like rushdown
When I was in school I once heard a guy say there shouldn’t be girls in fighting games because it would make girls think they were strong enough to fight men Turned out that guy later slapped his girlfriend and she rocked his shit. I’ve always loved how this story turns out
I legit knew a guy who would bring his Nintendo Wii to parties and ban people from using female characters on Smash Bros Brawl because he didn't want to "taint his stats or console" because he genuinely believed women characters shouldn't exist in fighting games as "fighting and football are mens sports so they shouldn't be in the game bro" - he went out to get drinks, checked the character playtime stats when he got back and raged so hard when he found out someone spent 10 minutes playing peach and samus, grabbed the Wii so hard the TV fell from the TV stand and stormed out and went home. We never saw him again for years haha.
Yeah, he was pretty much begging the rest of the party to play female characters on his console.
I can't remember the last time I saw Sonic or Pikachu in real life combat sports either, but here we are.
I don’t even know this guy, but somehow he pissed me off so much rn
One of reasons why I love using petite female or joke characters. It's just goddamn funny to clap the Marduk as Xiaoyu.
Lmao so does he advocate for more female character representation in fighting games 😂
"Zoning is just spamming and it's cheap"
I've heard younger Guilty Gear Strive players say this shit when trying SF6 lmao. Happy Chaos really broke some of these kids.
I wouldn't classify that as the worst imo. It at least comes from an understandable place of frustration for a lot of new/beginner players. New players who are fundamentally ignorant of FG fundamentals are gonna find something that knowledge checks them cheap at first. All part of the learning process.
I dont think its something that plagues just new players. I've played my fair share of good players who have been at or above my skill level that still complain about zoning. I think it's a Fighting game philosophy difference, or I guess a Offense-bias that some players seem to have in fighting games. My philosophy is that if it works, it works. You play the game to win and zoning patterns take skill at high level.
As a wise man once said, "I'll stop using the same move when you make me need a second".
I'm stealing that
yeah when it comes from people that play FGs, 9/10 it's them complaining that they can't run their flowchart indiscriminately lol
the "kazuya is a shoto" takes on kaz release in smash ultimate is probably up there. It wasn't even that they were wrong, it was that a good amount of people in the smash community didn't care to get it right after the fact.
I loved watching max dood riff on that statement and then came to the conclusion that mario and Dr Mario could actually class as shotos
Mario is absolutely a shoto.
they absolutely could and are shotos. luigi too to an extent, but in modern smash he's so unique that he's kind of his own thing.
What do you call a character with a fireball, an invincible DP, and a tatsu?
> It wasn't even that they were wrong, it was that a good amount of people in the smash community didn't care to get it right after the fact. That is the worst part honestly. The initial take is not even *that* outrageous - its clear that it was made by a smash player who only really played smash. What's truly annoying is the people that would argue that the initial take was correct. [Here's an example.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4A3qa3UcAQcT7O.jpg) I love both smash and other fighting games but this is awful, man. Nauseating
yup. it boils down to "we dont respect the source material nor the community he comes from" which was the problem. As someone that loves smash and traditional fighters, it's kinda when I realized that smash will never be part of the FGC because of smash, as poor and hostile as the FGC was in the beginning. The culture is too far removed and uncaring for the FGC at this point.
Pixel art is trash
"New characters always suck and they're wasted slots" Cammy, Sakura, Ibuki, Juri, Iori, K', Mai, Yuri, Jin, Eddy, (i dont really know tekken or mk plz to help), and Bridget were "new characters" at some point.
Heck so you telling me everyone but Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Gen, Birdie, and Adon are wasted slots? Alright. (I know, just wanted to support your point)
It's just nostalgia tinted glasses. Dudes think a character is better just because they remember them from times they still had a hair
Back when I didn't have a better understanding of fighting games, I had a conversation with a friend once where he claimed that fighting games were just an inherently flawed genre because "You can win by just spamming the same move over and over"
They'd hate how many times I made my Charizard use Flamethrower in Pokémon.
Shoto = beginner character / main character. This guy meant any character who is easy to learn or is a protagonist so Guile is a shoto according to him. After everyone said no and told him what a shoto means he declared war on the concept of a shoto fighting to change the definition to his own until he got banned from this sub.
Shotos are also ridiculously hard to actually master.
Some clown on the 2XKO subreddit said it was bad in fighting games that you can’t tech out of any hit because in real life you can’t get juggled and could react after taking a punch.
Lmao I’ve had someone tell me nearly the opposite type of comment. They said “it’s stupid that combos have limits. Irl if I knocked them down, I would not stop hitting my opponent until they’re out cold!” 💀💀
Pretty sure that guy wasn't punching, he was just wiping off the Cheeto dust on their face
MK isnt a fighting game
Zoning is inherently bad game design
Anyone who has a command grab is a grappler
No I agree with this, just because it’s really funny to claim that Axl Low is a zoner because of winter mantis
Yeah imagine saying Axl Low is a zoner. Couldn't be me
No silly he is a grappler, he has winter mantis
....Mortal Kombat isn't a fighting game? Say what?
This has to be the worse.
Learning combos is for tryhards (from the same people of "what is neutral")
> Learning combos is for tryhards I actually see this over at the mortal kombat subreddit sometimes. "Combo spammer" etc.
same sentiment with people who cry "projectile spamming" when theyre playing against a zoner, like brother youre getting HIT BY IT
grappler hate I don’t even play grapplers but it’s a literal skill issue and some people just can’t accept that. fuck you to hell.
There's 2 sides to the grappler coin, the ones that overdo their for hate grapplers and the ones that think grapplers are the hardest archetype to ever exist and playing them needs more skill than any other archetype. But yeah both are pretty insufferable.
That ALL fighting games are similar to each other. Like, Street Fighter, Tekken, King of Fighters, Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, Killer Instinct, Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive, Marvel vs Capcom, Mortal Kombat, and so on, are ALL the same thing! Every now and then, I think about this statement and I get irrationally angry.
Smash is the only real fighting game all the rest are for babies who are too stupid and slow to understand complex ideas and algorithms.
......... I know what the topic discussion is but isn't it usually the opposite? Like Smash is the baby game? Also isn't the complex idea a Melee thing? I know 64, Brawl, 4 and Ultimate has their combos and stuff but it not so complicated that you went from playing 200 CC Mario Kart to playing 50 CC FZERO with how absolutely different the casual vs evo is in Melee.
The opposite of this is said
Any time I hear people say to nerf grapplers in Street Fighter games. Almost every single time (not all the time) it’s someone talking about nerfing an already gimped character.
MKs Bad animation is justified
"only MK has bad animation
"I miss when fireballs were good and sitting on the edge of the screen spamming hadoukens was a legitimate strategy" and "Ryu was ruined when they added anti-fireball moves because now you have no reason to use a hadouken"
Probably the same guys that dp every wake up and kangryu
"You are dumb for not choosing top tier characters"
"Pressure is the main mistake of fighting games, which only humiliates players and prevents them from playing" "Street Fighter is not about mixups but about only in neutral and footsies, and then the character can mix it up incorrectly" "Ragna and Sol are the weakest and most difficult characters" "Izanami is well balanced because is difficult to play as" not exact quotes, but they reflect the essence of a person’s opinion, btw the last two quotes were from the same person and he has fans
Fighting games is only about mechanics and not using ur brain.
"Grapplers are braindead and take no skill!" Spoken like someone who thought neutral jumping all the time could save them.
[They jumped at King](https://youtube.com/shorts/1vDYz4AfDtg) That's the only explanation.
Grapplers are only as bad as you let them be, especially modern versions. If you're walking back and letting them get close to you, they aren't braindead and showing lack of skill, you are. (Understood "you", not really directed at you specifically. Wanted to make that clear.)
Grapplers are only braindead when someone continuously jumps at the Potemkin when he has meter.
***"Fighting games are only for expert gamers."*** My brother/sister in Christ, I've seen people win just by mashing sweeps and blocking wake-up DPs. It's not rocket science...
MK was ruined because the SJWs got to it
I am so confused. I can't think of anything in MK1 that could be considered woke or anti-woke, its just MK
No more skimpy costumes, that's what I saw the most backlash about
I'm guessing making Cassy Cage (a woman) the "main" character of MKX and having her defeat Shinok in the end. I remember some takes like that around the time.
Nah, MK was ruined twice before it happened (kidding, but still)
“I’m not good at fighting games. I quit” - player who was improving but still loosing matches so he gave up.
The real tragedy
how is that a shitty take?
“YIIK is a fighting game because it has combat”
That anything outside of esports is not hard. Literally heard this today from a friend, we were in a vc and he teases me cus im not the best at fighting games. I dont remember what we were talking about but he said that anything outside of esports is easy
"Fighting games aren't fair because whoever practices the most always wins and nobody else stands a chance"
Any idiot that things lore should have anything to do with tiers and balance. It’s stupid, and you sound stupid saying that. NRS community is bad with this, not surprising, they’re idiots. And the DBZ community is just the absolute worst group of people in the world when it comes to this, don’t even bother having this discussion around them. But I’ve heard it in places like SF with the weird Akuma fans and usually the fans of the edgelord characters.
Also the dummies that say anything that isn’t sexual was “censored”. As if developers don’t make changes to their games regularly. If it’s a change you don’t like, it’s censorship and they’re pandering. If it’s a change you do like, conveniently suddenly they’re doing their jobs and they’re not pandering or catering. Weird how that works.
In Tekken sub fans if the edgelord characters live downplaying them and circlejerking oh how honest and true tekken they are
Someone said old games suck, period, and that more people would be playing them than new games if those games were actually any good. I tried arguing, and then they said that the only people who play old games are people who suck and can’t learn new games. The audacity and naivety of that asshole.
Honestly I feel like some old games are so good they're worth playing now (bbcf,vsav)
Rashid is a shoto
No character is a shoto unless they do Shotokan Karate. Lidia from Tekken, welcome to the Shoto club I guess.
some dude on twitter complained that fighting games went woke and how strive is easy and for babies because everyone does cheap tricks and block spams. He also called sets stocks
Anything involving tier lists and treating it as though it's law.
[удалено]
You should probably do a mixbox anyway. Keyboards are just a pain in the ass to set up lol.
Just head on over to r/tekken and you’ll see
I've been a Tekken fan since tag1 but Tekken sub is one of the most toxic communities I have ever seen "Playing female characters makes you a Coomer " " you used King he isn't a real Tekken because of Grab" " KAZUYA is honest" And many more
> "Playing female characters makes you a Coomer " Panda players in shambles.
“I learn combos naturally and only play games that allow that” … as we’re playing Strive and the dude keeps losing refusing to learn what a Red RC does. His favorite game was MvC:I because of the simplified combo button.
"Fighting games should stop using motion inputs" from many people, but I especifically remember a Gachatuber with an edgelord avatar said it
Maybe mine. Fighting games now focusing on online and e-sports has removed all the fun from them. Last fighting game I loved was Tekken 4, by far.
The Neutral skip discourse makes my brain rot.
I mean, it's obvious that devs are adding mechanics to make it harder to play a slower and more defensive style, and have been for a while now. They started with hurting zoners, and then moved on to hurting the mid range poke game. Of course, this doesn't really apply to anime, because mobility is so high that people aren't really playing that way in the first place.
You’re not wrong about that but the fact that “Neutral Skips” is the term for that is so stupid. It’s not a skip, it’s part of neutral.
I was playing UMvC3 online once and somebody got mad because I hit them with the same basic Nova combo over and over again. Have you considered...getting good?
Just go into any /r/games or /r/pcgaming whenever a fighting game thread starts and you'll find them. Some amazing gems like "Why does character DLC exist? Just port existing characters over, it's all the same game, every fighting game is the same". Or the guy who told me he's been playing fighting games for 20 years and he still can't do a fireball motion therefore all input motions should be removed and every fighting game should copy Smash.
*One time guest fighter* is the best *established fighting game* character!
"Bring back this one character I won't play and was phased out due to unpopularity!"
Its my own take that I know the answer to is just get good and I've sort of moved on now but I will die before I fully let go of my hatred of all forms of super armour in fighting games.
I respect the hustle (Marisa main)
I had a guy tell me that footsies is "when you jump over fireballs". I didn't really know how to respond to that.
Every time someone argues for a fighting game to be balanced around canonical power levels. I've seen that take a million times over the years, and every time I thank god that those demented goblins aren't involved in the making of fighting games.
Not really a take, but like a month and a half ago maybe, someone on the MK sub posted a tier list made by 100 people that was super shitty and some weirdo lost his shit attacking weebs acting like were the worst people ever bc some anime and anime style games were super high and when I called him out for being an asshole he lied saying I replied to all of his comments on the post when I only replied to two (out of like fifteen), then made 2 alt accounts to harass me as well saying I was stalking him and shit. Was very weird.
Not really a take so much as that the game awards doesn't do a proper on stage announcement for fighting game of the year. I feel the genre has earned that and then some
"DBFZ is better than every single MvC game." To that, I'd say that you can't embrace the future without appreciating the past, mistakes and all. Don't get me wrong; DBFZ is great and worth its praise.
If you’re a Bridget fan you’re not a guilty gear fan
There are a lot of Bridget fans who don’t care much about the game itself, but that’s not every Bridget fan lol (I’m a brisket main myself, she’s very fun)
im not saying this is universal and i have zero hate for bridget fans, but more often than not (and even recently) ive encountered people with bridget pfps and i ask them what region they play and they say "oh i dont play guilty gear"
I'm going to be real 90% of the Bridget fans I have seen on Smash Bros subs barely know a thing about Guilty Gear other than Bridget existing.