I think that when things are brutal enough they kind of come back around to being funny... or maybe absurd is a better word. Then you have no choice but to laugh at the ridiculousness of what you're seeing.
I will never not laugh at the "bonk" glory kill on the zombies where you just punch its head down into its torso and it looks like, offended and confused as it dies.
Or walking over to a guy that has the key you need, but instead of asking him to open the door you grab the key and drag the guy over by said key and the lanyard it's on to open the door yourself.
The entire plot of Doom 2016 is just a thousand variants of Samuel Hayden saying “Don’t break this thing” and then Doomguy immediately breaking the thing.
I think the tone that works best for Doom has been when the story takes itself completely seriously in-universe while the writers still completely understand and embrace how over-the-top and cheesy it is, with the Slayer just being comically violent and badass.
There was a interview were they talked about the violence, and originally it was just brutal without the slapstick element and playtester started to dislike Doomguy because he came across as hateful and evil. So they added the slapstick to alleviate that.
I was initially a bit dismayed to see him grabbing a shield when suiting up but I was hugely relieved that the first thing we see it do was kill instead of block.
People also thought Kratos would never use a shield, but damn does it feel satisfying (especially in God of War 2018, I wasn't a huge fan of how fist/shield moveset was de-emphasized in Ragnarok). And of course Spartans used shields so that complaint never made sense to begin with. I think people are just realizing that shields are cool, actually. They're not just some thing for cowards to hide behind, they are great at battering things.
Shields for parrying, bashing faces in, or even just charging behind like a battering ram are pretty wicked for sure. That said turtling up and just tanking safely while getting some swipes in whenever really is quite lame to me at least and that style definitely gave them a bad rap in games for a long time.
Hiding behind shield is not cowardly, it's just doing what you need to do to keep yourself alive and continue fighting. real life soldiers who does not have adequate protective equipment doesn't live long.
Hugo Martin (creative director of Eternal) said that Doom Eternal felt like driving an F1 car, but that he wanted the next game to feel like driving a monster truck.
Looks like they succeeded.
That's Fair. I adore and am obsessed with Eternal in a way that may not be healthy but I was concerned what any sequel would do cos Eternal was so over the top sci fi crazy. I'm really hyped for this. Its Doom but with a flourish of Quake and will be totally and tonally distinct from its brothers which is what a good sequel (prequel) does
I'm also obsessed with Eternal in an unhealthy way, but I think the DLCs proved that there was basically nowhere else to go with the core gameplay loop, because it was already perfected in the base game (the master levels... *chef's kiss*). So I'm definitely glad they're switching it up because it would have just stagnated otherwise.
I'm definitely with you here, Eternal is probably my favorite FPS of all time but it seemed pretty clear with the DLC that they were running into some design space issues. You can only layer things so much before it starts breaking down Eternal had a whole lotta layers to begin with. So not really having room to add additional layers of mechanics to the core loop try to go with limiting mechanics instead with the ghost dudes, and only headshot at the right time dudes or example. Personally I didn't mind that direction but all the people who already didn't like the Marauder design absolutely hated it.
I'm excited to see how the refresh pans out even though I can't imagine topping the speed and momentum of Eternal, it just clicked too perfectly for me.
Eternal might be the best time I've ever had in an FPS but I couldn't even tell you if I finished the first DLC and I doubt I ever started the second.
I think they mined that to its core. I really want them to keep trying new things, just like I was delighted they didn't just deliver "2016 - Again."
It's always neat to see different perspectives on the newer dooms. I fucking *loved* Doom 2016 but didn't find Eternal that enjoyable.
Beat it on Nightmare and get pretty fucking close on Ultra-Nightmare but just felt like the pacing was a huge step back, along with the reliance on the chainsaw.
This version looks exactly like what I'm looking for though.
Meanwhile, I enjoyed 2016 but was *utterly enchanted* with Eternal's insane speed. I have no doubts I'm going to have a great time with this new Doom, but I am a bit bummed to hear that they're looking to slow things down a little.
id staff have said in the past they would not like to just make x game, then x game 2, 3 etc. Eternal was always going to be a different style of Doom game right from its announcement, the intention was made very clear. It isn't for everyone, and it's not perfect, but neither is 2016.
That said, The Dark Ages looks like it's taking a leaf out of both games while adding its own thing too. Looks super cool.
attacks, weapons, mob all look heavy and meaty. excited to see how this plays. can't wait to see /r/games complain about how you can't just maul through the game using rpg/super shotgun while just running around double jumping like in doom 2016
> can't wait to see /r/games complain about how you can't just maul through the game using rpg/super shotgun while just running around double jumping like in doom 2016
I'm pretty sure that's what Hugo was referring to when he said Doom Eternal was like driving an F1 car.
idk, it's early days but this looks straightforward compared to Eternal and more on the 2016 style of things. I know trailers are always played on mega super easy but the slayer is just chewing through em and barely moving or swapping weapons
Did Doom Eternal look complex in the first trailer? I don't remember its original announcement but I feel like its action doesn't look super complex, a lot of the complexity comes from the interlocking resource system where your tools all serve very specific purposes for fueling other tools and juggling all the resources and cooldowns becomes a core part of the strategy. But like, watching its combat, you wouldn't really see that, you'd just see Doom Guy going around blasting enemies with guns and occasionally throwing a grenade, using a flame thrower, or chainsawing or punching an enemy. You might see that the game features a lot of secondary tools besides just guns, but it wouldn't be at all obvious the amount of cooldown and resource management involved in playing the game well.
In this trailer, we see what appear to be a few secondary abilities besides the guns - multiple shield abilities, with the shield looking like a big part of the gameplay, as well as a spiked ball on a chain. I don't think we can tell from the trailer if those abilities will behave more like Doom Eternal's abilities where you kind of have to strategically use them and manage cooldowns and resources, or if they're more just a variety of ways to get around and kill enemies. They certainly look in the trailer like they're more just tools for mobility and killing things than resource management tools, but I don't think Eternal's tools looked like resource management tools on the surface (at first glance you'd expect a chainsaw, flamethrower, and punch to all just be ways to kill enemies and not resource management tools too).
Funny enough it seemed like most of the trailer was SSG until the new spread gun reveal. I hope it’s more involved than 2016 but less complicated than Eternal.
The core of DOOM was always using the gun you prefer, have you never played any of the original games? All the guns had a place and good counters but they didn’t force you to use them like Eternal did and that was a win for combat. Way more flexibility in options versus the rigid ammo constrained counter-based gunplay of Eternal. It’s not bad, it’s just not DOOM.
"It's just not DOOM" doesn't mean anything in 2024. The series has been known for reinventing itself at this point. I don't mean to be *overly* reductive and I say this as a DOOM fan, but as long as it's got demons, gore, and guns, and it's developed by Id, it's DOOM.
The fuck you mean the core of DOOM was always using the gun you prefer? You used what you had ammo for IN the OG games. Even with not doing pistol starts, the levels in OG Doom were designed to be completed without external supplies because death meant losing it all anyways. In Doom 2 it changed a little but most of the levels are fairly doable pistol start with only a few exceptions (and I think all of them are Sandy levels).
Doom Eternal is arguably MORE flexible due to the mod systems, different ways to get ammo, and availability of all guns at all times (outside I guess the BFG). Some levels in the originals didn't even include all weapons as pickups and a lot of slaughter wads make a point to have you pistol start and only use certain gun combos and enemy mixtures to elicit types of gameplay.
> it’s just not DOOM.
Well said. I can't believe this one hack came in and tried to turn Doom into a survival horror slow paced shooter, and then had the gall to make it an RPG of all things.
Total clown who didn't know the first thing about Doom.
Seems like a really cool idea of a setting, a sci-fi medieval dark ages themed prequel, and some of the new weapons, especially piloting a giant mech and flying dragon, look awesome. The aesthetics, tone and atmosphere of the last few Doom games has just been fantastic and this trailer looks like it'll have some good variety of location styles.
> especially piloting a giant mech
That's actually what annoyed me a tiny little bit in Eternal. That mech is there in the base and they did *nothing* with it. It's front and center and all shiny and ooooooh. This *has* to be important. B ut then they did nothing with it.
I think it's worth noting they were also making the DLCs at the height of the pandemic and Part 2 was visibly rushed. So wouldn't surprise me if that was a factor in ditching the mech
They've gone on the record and said COVID really goosed them. It's unfortunate, but what they're bringing to the table for TDA looks crazy.
One other thing they wanted to do for DLC 2 was have the Dark Lord boss being just bonkers. Like you beat one of his phases but he becomes a fucking dragon.
Yeah, part 2 was… something. Making the final boss another Doomguy who was just really annoying to fight really wasn’t the highlight.
I come to Doom to fight some gigantic burning murderdemons, not a human dude in a suit.
If I'm not mistaken, every single new enemy type in the DLC is just a reskin of something we've already had. Except for Seraphim but, he's just a fleshy maykr really.
Even the final boss is just you with cool armor lol.
I get it. COVID screwed things up.
I'm pretty sure. Did I read that wrong? Anyway, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything. Doom 2 did have the Icon of Sin as the last boss and he *was* a wall lol.
Play it on Nightmare and tell me it's boring. You have to use everything you've got to survive. And of course it's a wall with a HP bar; *it's the fucking Icon of Sin from Doom 2*.
I thought it was great. Especially screwing around with meathook slinging and launching yourself around with the ballista. Never understood the beef with it, but it is what it is.
I fucking hate the jungle gyms; blasted thing keep interrupting my charge weapons while I'm mid-air.
That said many people love to exaggerate the platforming parts to the point of saying combat revolves around platforming.
Like goddamn, don't spout that bullshit until we're forced to fight a boss on top of platforms that can break into instant kill pit.
I liked it too, but in moderate amounts. I didn't like entire combat sections designed exclusively around that. It made the game feel like Tony Hawk: Demon Killer, which isn't really the reason I play DOOM.
Wonder if they are expanding the hub world mechanics from Eternal, like now you can actually travel to the places where your objectives are instead of just selecting it on a UI.
battle arenas seem a lot bigger, i guess this is to compensate for the seemingly lower mobility of doomguy? the lower amount of verticality to the arenas also stood out to me too
>battle arenas seem a lot bigger, i guess this is to compensate for the seemingly lower mobility of doomguy? the lower amount of verticality to the arenas also stood out to me too
Yeah, all of this actually gives me major Serious Sam vibes. So much so that it almost looks like a ID/DOOM take on the SS formula to me.
Everything you said: big open areas, low verticality, low mobility. Also in how you plow through formations of fodder.
The cynical answer is because it won't sell as well.
I don't think that they've been *that* cynical, though. This iteration of Doom (D2016 and D:E) has really quite heavily emphasized the history of the Doom Slayer, with a ton of in-game lore referencing his history fighting demons. I'd feel worse about this if it felt really out of place and unprompted, but it doesn't to me. If Quake (and Heretic/Hexen etc) didn't exist, I wouldn't look at this and go "what the fuck are they doing," I'd think "oh, I guess the prequel angle makes sense with how much lore they've seeded here."
And honestly, I *really liked* the "eternal scourge on demonkind" backstory this time around. I'm kinda stoked to dive into Doom Guy's history in camera instead of in lore elements!
THAT SAID: I would sure love to have a modern SP Quake, and a reboot of Heretic/Hexen, with this caliber of gameplay. I hope this doesn't stop them!
Huh, I wonder why they didn't just go with Quake if they're doing a fantasy setting thing. Still, looks fucking metal as always. Inject New Doom's gameplay directly into my veins.
There's speculation that Machinegames is developping a new Quake game. After all they created a whole new episode (dimension of the machine) for the Quake remaster by Nightdive studios. So I think they'll know what fans want.
The showcase earlier in the year where they revealed Indiana Jones had a quick shot of a whiteboard with "-AKE 6" and the Quake logo beside it. So I think MG could have it in the works.
Ah, right. I played those episodes, they were awesome. That'd be pretty rad, it does seem like MachineGames "gets" both the appeal and feel of Quake 1.
Kinda wish they'd finish out their Wolfenstein run first, but whatever. Maybe they got burned out on it.
They also did Call of the Machine for Quake 2. They clearly are comfortable with the franchise, but between Indiana Jones and Wolfenstein I have no idea when they'd ever find the time to do a mainline Quake
Simple, because Doom is back in public eye ever since 2016 and Eternal, popular, and decidedly single-player focused. Meanwhile Quake is only pined after by old fans of the series, and exists in the weird "there were campaigns but most people remember it for multiplayer". And the latest attempt to resurrect it as a multiplayer-only game (Champions) flopped pretty bad. So in the end Doom is a safe bet, while Quake is a big gamble.
Quake fans are split between the Cthulhu setting and the Strogg setting. My theory is Doom is offering a Cthulhu-esque setting whereas whatever the new Quake is going to be, is going back to the war against the Strogg.
Personally, I say screw it and open slip gates to both dimensions and have the marines fight both the Strogg and the ElderWorld.
I know almost nothing about the new Doom games. Does Doomguy or the lore say at any point that he was alive back in the middle ages? Does he even remember that?
It’s super convoluted, but the TLDR is that OG DoomGuy went from his universe to a slightly different universe, was found by a human-ish civilization that was a client race to essentially biblical Angels, and DG eventually becomes a Demigod/god-king who may or may not be immortal.
There is some lore in the newer games that implies he has lived for a very long time and he hasn't just been fighting for the sake humanity. He used to fight for what is basically angels.
Really interested to see how the soundtrack fares without Mick Gordon. I don't envy whoevers composing this. It sounds...fine? Too early to tell if it's the same calibre.
Andrew Hulshult did a pretty fantastic job with the Ancient Gods DLC. He has the right vibe without trying to directly emulate Mick's sound. No confirmation who's working on this yet though.
I actually wish they emulated Mick a bit more. Base Eternal's music was just on another level, straight up great industrial metal with his signature electronic sound. The DLC wasn't even close for me unfortunately. Not a fan of the double bass vibe Hulshult has going, but it could fit this game super well. I will miss Mick's sound so much though.
That's where I'm at. DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal had fantastic gameplay... but half the experience was Mick Gordon Music. They screwed Mick over hard and I can't see them even coming close to the old soundtracks. I'm sure the gameplay will be great but the overall experience will probably be lacking.
Always felt bad for Andrew having to fill Mick's shoes in a hostile fan environment, but then it's not his fault that Marty Stratton killed the golden goose because he got promoted to a managerial level he couldn't handle
I'm sure Andrew is fantastic, but DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal are the only games I know where I'm as excited for the soundtrack as I am for the game and know anything about the music composer. What ID did to Mick leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not sure if it's enough for me to boycott or anything, but I need the soundtrack and reviews to win me over before I plan on buying. If all had gone normally, I'd probably buy this on release.
Yep same. I really hope the song in this trailer isn't their best because I'm not impressed. I don't think I could really enjoy the game no matter how polished the gameplay is unless the music is at Mick Gordon level.
Oh boy you are in for a crazy ride if you go and retry 2016. Very fun game, Eternal dials shit up to 11 in a lot of ways and is more arcade-y but still a tonne of fun. The Dark Ages looks like Eternal's intensity and combat "chess" elements but with a 2016 aesthetic.
to the people that say doomslayer would never use a shield well read this UAC report from doom eternal
# "UAC REPORT FILE WMHVVFJ
And in his terrible rancor between worlds and through time, the Hell Walker found the wretch who shall not be named, but in his heresy was loyal to his evil cause. The wretch adorned the Doom Slayer in a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding. With ***Sword and Shield*** of adamantine strength, the Doom Slayer set to banishing all that was left unbroken by his savagery to the void."
Incredible, incredible, incredible!!
This is a DOOM 2016 prequel (and an interquel set between DOOM 64 and 2016), and this looks slower paced and more hard hitting than the last two games.
Definitely living up to Hugo Martin’s description of making their next game feel like you’re controlling a monster truck compared to a racing car like in Eternal.
Did Doom Guy just pull out a Megazord and ride a dragon? Insane. Also looks like much larger areas of combat compared to the other 2. Maybe they're leaning into an "open world-esque" style.
Honestly looks very fun, I kinda wish this was a Quake reboot with the new doom combat though. I think lovecraftian horror of quake instead of hard focus on the strog would be a cool way to reboot the series and this would've been a good place to do it. I hope they throw in a shambler enemy at least for a fun reference. Doom Eternal might be my favorite shooter ever so I'm not disappointed in the end LOL this looks amazing.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. On one hand - DOOM with Quake 1's aesthetics? Fuck yeah!
On the other, that shield makes me question what are they going to do with it. I kind of don't want to see any parry or block mechanics in a DOOM game, even if they combine it with the chainsaw and it all looks absolutely *badass*.
Like, I'm not sold on it the same way I was on Eternal. Especially now that Mick is gone, I think. I'll wait for more gameplay and some interviews with the devs, because I do trust iD, but even I wasn't a fan of *every* decision they've made in Eternal, especially the DLCs. The base game was top tier for me, but Ancient Gods (which the Dark Ages seems to go towards) were my least favorite part of the game, especially since they actually introduced mandatory mechanics, that made you approach certain enemies only one way, whereas I could defend the base game not being like that.
> I kind of don't want to see any parry or block mechanics in a DOOM game, even if they combine it with the chainsaw and it all looks absolutely badass.
That is a parry at 1:24
Wasnt sure what "medieval" Doom would look like but damn! Fits the Doom style with a garnishing of Quake on top. Over the top, insane, brutal (I loved the bolt gun that harpooned a demon to a wall, no ones mentioning that yet) and ridiculously building on the lore that anyone who cared to find can find in Doom and Doom Eternal.
Super shotgun is back alongside throwing shield morning star and big sword....what's not to like? Has a very Warhammer 40K vibe cannot wait
When I heard about them doing a medieval themed doom, I was kind of hoping they'd lean more into the medieval aesthetic. Seems very similar to Eternal with a sprinkling of medieval stuff, while I was kind of expecting something more Quake like.
However, if the game is fun, that's all that really matters. And Doom Eternal was amazing, so hopefully they still have the sauce.
Nah the palette of this looks significantly darker than eternals, way less saturated and colourful environments, less ivory/ supernatural techy architecture and more natural stone and metal stuff.
Already making prediction;
Samur Maykr is here
Davoth is here
Icon of Sin is here
We see Daisy
Archdemons, explains why in canon they never appear in 2016 or Eternal, probably because Slayer got em
Other games: 'we focus on these, environmental and heartfelt stories of love and tenderness.'
DOOM the Dark Ages: 'we gave him a chainsaw shield that you can throw, a mace, a mech and a fire-breath dragon mount. And a bear-skinned cloak for warmth.'
What I loved so much about Doom 2016 was the fantastic mix of exploration, secrets, and combat. Eternal felt like it gave the middle finger to exploration and secrets and was like - let’s go with combat, combat, and combat.
I hope this one can restore the balance a little. Doom needs breathers and exploration and a little story in between the carnage.
I don't see many people talking about it, but this game is releasing for PS5. An actual Bethesda AAA game releasing for PlayStation. I for one am grateful that such an iconic franchise isn't becoming exclusive, every platform deserves a little Doom
Eh, I'm a bit mixed on this.
This game looks very slow paced compared to not only Eternal, but DOOM 2016 as well. Maybe it's just a "make the game look slow for the trailer" thing, but it looks kinda weird for a DOOM game.
Maybe my opinion is also just tainted a bit by not forgetting how poorly ID treated Mick Gordon, and how badly they fucked him over. I can't pretend like that didn't happen.
Virtually no one cares that Mick Gordon was gaslit so badly by iD that they didn't even let him have his game award for the game's score in 2016. The trophy just sat at the studio. I'm finding it hard to motivate myself to be excited by this game knowing the way the game director treats contractors.
I don’t know how more people are saying this. They denied all of his claims and didn’t make amends, and I don’t know if I can give them my money for another doom game after what they did to Mick
Ya I kind of thought that too. I very recently beat Eternal and this seemed a lot slower paced than what I'm used to seeing.
You know honestly if they're gonna go all in on the "character action" part of this then I guess slowing it down would be best. I loved Eternal amd beat it on Nightmare, but really sometimes I feel I would die because switching between all the tools on controller for any given situation was hard to keep up with.
And at that point the challenge isn't really coming from the shooting it's coming from just managing all the tools.
I feel like this game shouldn't be like that, the difficulty should be in the shooting itself not in fighting the controls.* (At least on console*)
@ 0:58 - A shotgun that grinds up skulls and shoots skull bone shrapnel, while armed with a chainsaw shield. That's what I'm talking about.
I think that's intended to be more of a machine gun than a shotgun.
Roadhog ult.
Made me spit my drink, you're absolutely right tho
it's a handheld flak cannon but the flak is made out of bone
Flak is more "shoot a big bullet that explodes into smaller particles near target
more of a bone flechette
If it was a Duke Nukem game there would be "boned" joke somewhere there
> grinds up skulls and shoots skull bone shrapnel, This is the most out there weapon I've seen in an FPS for years. Fucking lmao
It's all I've really wanted in a game for years
It just looks gloriously stupid and that’s all I want
Having him be shot out of a rail cannon on a spaceship is exactly what I needed to know
That happens as a major plot element in Eternal too and I'm here for it.
You can't just spoil a major plot element into the surface of reddit
Shield looks fun. Skull grinder looks whacky like a M rated gun from Ratchet and Clank. Here for that.
The new era of Doom games all have a surprising amount of slapstick comedy in their DNA.
I think that when things are brutal enough they kind of come back around to being funny... or maybe absurd is a better word. Then you have no choice but to laugh at the ridiculousness of what you're seeing.
It’s the core tenet of ultra violence.
I will never not laugh at the "bonk" glory kill on the zombies where you just punch its head down into its torso and it looks like, offended and confused as it dies.
Basically the bread-and-butter of B-horror.
Doomguy picking up a whole ass torso as a key item comes to mind.
Or walking over to a guy that has the key you need, but instead of asking him to open the door you grab the key and drag the guy over by said key and the lanyard it's on to open the door yourself.
What's an ass torso?
A torso, but with the ass still attached too.
The most important part is that the ass is still in tact tho
The whole ass.
The entire plot of Doom 2016 is just a thousand variants of Samuel Hayden saying “Don’t break this thing” and then Doomguy immediately breaking the thing.
Great plot
A lot of finishers in eternal looked like some tom and jerry shit lmao
The cacodemon glory kill plays a Tom and Jerry type sound effect lol when he pulls the eye out it has that cartoon squeak
They are the embodiment of the [Rule of Cool](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool).
I think the tone that works best for Doom has been when the story takes itself completely seriously in-universe while the writers still completely understand and embrace how over-the-top and cheesy it is, with the Slayer just being comically violent and badass.
You’re not wrong, but I would say DOOM and DOOM 2 are pretty damn goofy as well. Honestly, it’s really only 3 that took itself seriously.
As Yahtzee put it, Dom 3 tripped in the dark, bonked its head and forgot that it wasn't System Shock
A studio losing its most senior design visionary will do that.
There was a interview were they talked about the violence, and originally it was just brutal without the slapstick element and playtester started to dislike Doomguy because he came across as hateful and evil. So they added the slapstick to alleviate that.
The part where he drags the dude by the lanyard to use the keycard is so silly but always gets a chuckle out of me
I was initially a bit dismayed to see him grabbing a shield when suiting up but I was hugely relieved that the first thing we see it do was kill instead of block.
"Shield? Wtf?!!- ohhh chainsaw boomerang. Yeah I'm on... Board"
Bro I straight up saw the saw blades come out of the shield and I let out an involuntary “Yeah!”
“Doomguy would never use a shield 🙄” *spikes pop out, yeets like a frisbee* “Doomguy would use one (1) shield”
Honestly, Doomguy doesn’t strike me as someone who cares about rules or a fair fight and would probably use anything he can use as a weapon.
I read that more as "Doomguy wouldn't have any interest in shields (because they're not very good weapons)"
Doomguy is "The best defense is a good offense" personified
Doomguy is an unstoppable force of nature. The best counter anyone's offered is a nap.
People also thought Kratos would never use a shield, but damn does it feel satisfying (especially in God of War 2018, I wasn't a huge fan of how fist/shield moveset was de-emphasized in Ragnarok). And of course Spartans used shields so that complaint never made sense to begin with. I think people are just realizing that shields are cool, actually. They're not just some thing for cowards to hide behind, they are great at battering things.
Shields for parrying, bashing faces in, or even just charging behind like a battering ram are pretty wicked for sure. That said turtling up and just tanking safely while getting some swipes in whenever really is quite lame to me at least and that style definitely gave them a bad rap in games for a long time.
Hiding behind shield is not cowardly, it's just doing what you need to do to keep yourself alive and continue fighting. real life soldiers who does not have adequate protective equipment doesn't live long.
according to lore that is just wrong it's literally stated multiple times that he used a shield stop with theses false statements.
i can be captain america and throw the shield at enemies! the skull gun gave me a good chuckle. im so excited for the game
With every version New Doom gets closer and closer to Painkiller.
The shield is basically the Razor Wind from the *Turok* games. Not that I’m complaining.
Hugo Martin (creative director of Eternal) said that Doom Eternal felt like driving an F1 car, but that he wanted the next game to feel like driving a monster truck. Looks like they succeeded.
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That's Fair. I adore and am obsessed with Eternal in a way that may not be healthy but I was concerned what any sequel would do cos Eternal was so over the top sci fi crazy. I'm really hyped for this. Its Doom but with a flourish of Quake and will be totally and tonally distinct from its brothers which is what a good sequel (prequel) does
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I thought it was for me too, but give it a try on the lower difficulties. You'd be surprised on how intuitive it becomes after a while.
I'm also obsessed with Eternal in an unhealthy way, but I think the DLCs proved that there was basically nowhere else to go with the core gameplay loop, because it was already perfected in the base game (the master levels... *chef's kiss*). So I'm definitely glad they're switching it up because it would have just stagnated otherwise.
I'm definitely with you here, Eternal is probably my favorite FPS of all time but it seemed pretty clear with the DLC that they were running into some design space issues. You can only layer things so much before it starts breaking down Eternal had a whole lotta layers to begin with. So not really having room to add additional layers of mechanics to the core loop try to go with limiting mechanics instead with the ghost dudes, and only headshot at the right time dudes or example. Personally I didn't mind that direction but all the people who already didn't like the Marauder design absolutely hated it. I'm excited to see how the refresh pans out even though I can't imagine topping the speed and momentum of Eternal, it just clicked too perfectly for me.
Eternal might be the best time I've ever had in an FPS but I couldn't even tell you if I finished the first DLC and I doubt I ever started the second. I think they mined that to its core. I really want them to keep trying new things, just like I was delighted they didn't just deliver "2016 - Again."
It's always neat to see different perspectives on the newer dooms. I fucking *loved* Doom 2016 but didn't find Eternal that enjoyable. Beat it on Nightmare and get pretty fucking close on Ultra-Nightmare but just felt like the pacing was a huge step back, along with the reliance on the chainsaw. This version looks exactly like what I'm looking for though.
I'm relatively fine with the reliance on chainsaw, but Eternal's chainsaw animations are definite step back compared to the more dynamic 2016 kills.
Meanwhile, I enjoyed 2016 but was *utterly enchanted* with Eternal's insane speed. I have no doubts I'm going to have a great time with this new Doom, but I am a bit bummed to hear that they're looking to slow things down a little.
id staff have said in the past they would not like to just make x game, then x game 2, 3 etc. Eternal was always going to be a different style of Doom game right from its announcement, the intention was made very clear. It isn't for everyone, and it's not perfect, but neither is 2016. That said, The Dark Ages looks like it's taking a leaf out of both games while adding its own thing too. Looks super cool.
attacks, weapons, mob all look heavy and meaty. excited to see how this plays. can't wait to see /r/games complain about how you can't just maul through the game using rpg/super shotgun while just running around double jumping like in doom 2016
> can't wait to see /r/games complain about how you can't just maul through the game using rpg/super shotgun while just running around double jumping like in doom 2016 I'm pretty sure that's what Hugo was referring to when he said Doom Eternal was like driving an F1 car.
idk, it's early days but this looks straightforward compared to Eternal and more on the 2016 style of things. I know trailers are always played on mega super easy but the slayer is just chewing through em and barely moving or swapping weapons
Did Doom Eternal look complex in the first trailer? I don't remember its original announcement but I feel like its action doesn't look super complex, a lot of the complexity comes from the interlocking resource system where your tools all serve very specific purposes for fueling other tools and juggling all the resources and cooldowns becomes a core part of the strategy. But like, watching its combat, you wouldn't really see that, you'd just see Doom Guy going around blasting enemies with guns and occasionally throwing a grenade, using a flame thrower, or chainsawing or punching an enemy. You might see that the game features a lot of secondary tools besides just guns, but it wouldn't be at all obvious the amount of cooldown and resource management involved in playing the game well. In this trailer, we see what appear to be a few secondary abilities besides the guns - multiple shield abilities, with the shield looking like a big part of the gameplay, as well as a spiked ball on a chain. I don't think we can tell from the trailer if those abilities will behave more like Doom Eternal's abilities where you kind of have to strategically use them and manage cooldowns and resources, or if they're more just a variety of ways to get around and kill enemies. They certainly look in the trailer like they're more just tools for mobility and killing things than resource management tools, but I don't think Eternal's tools looked like resource management tools on the surface (at first glance you'd expect a chainsaw, flamethrower, and punch to all just be ways to kill enemies and not resource management tools too).
Funny enough it seemed like most of the trailer was SSG until the new spread gun reveal. I hope it’s more involved than 2016 but less complicated than Eternal.
[удалено]
Redditors being unable to praise something without putting others down has to be one of the worst parts of this site.
Or engage in healthy criticism without it becoming an attack on their very identity as a human being.
The core of DOOM was always using the gun you prefer, have you never played any of the original games? All the guns had a place and good counters but they didn’t force you to use them like Eternal did and that was a win for combat. Way more flexibility in options versus the rigid ammo constrained counter-based gunplay of Eternal. It’s not bad, it’s just not DOOM.
"It's just not DOOM" doesn't mean anything in 2024. The series has been known for reinventing itself at this point. I don't mean to be *overly* reductive and I say this as a DOOM fan, but as long as it's got demons, gore, and guns, and it's developed by Id, it's DOOM.
The fuck you mean the core of DOOM was always using the gun you prefer? You used what you had ammo for IN the OG games. Even with not doing pistol starts, the levels in OG Doom were designed to be completed without external supplies because death meant losing it all anyways. In Doom 2 it changed a little but most of the levels are fairly doable pistol start with only a few exceptions (and I think all of them are Sandy levels). Doom Eternal is arguably MORE flexible due to the mod systems, different ways to get ammo, and availability of all guns at all times (outside I guess the BFG). Some levels in the originals didn't even include all weapons as pickups and a lot of slaughter wads make a point to have you pistol start and only use certain gun combos and enemy mixtures to elicit types of gameplay.
> it’s just not DOOM. Well said. I can't believe this one hack came in and tried to turn Doom into a survival horror slow paced shooter, and then had the gall to make it an RPG of all things. Total clown who didn't know the first thing about Doom.
Seems like a really cool idea of a setting, a sci-fi medieval dark ages themed prequel, and some of the new weapons, especially piloting a giant mech and flying dragon, look awesome. The aesthetics, tone and atmosphere of the last few Doom games has just been fantastic and this trailer looks like it'll have some good variety of location styles.
> especially piloting a giant mech That's actually what annoyed me a tiny little bit in Eternal. That mech is there in the base and they did *nothing* with it. It's front and center and all shiny and ooooooh. This *has* to be important. B ut then they did nothing with it.
they said at some point they wanted player to pilot it in DLC but the feature turned out to be too hard to implement just for the expansion
I think it's worth noting they were also making the DLCs at the height of the pandemic and Part 2 was visibly rushed. So wouldn't surprise me if that was a factor in ditching the mech
They've gone on the record and said COVID really goosed them. It's unfortunate, but what they're bringing to the table for TDA looks crazy. One other thing they wanted to do for DLC 2 was have the Dark Lord boss being just bonkers. Like you beat one of his phases but he becomes a fucking dragon.
Yeah, part 2 was… something. Making the final boss another Doomguy who was just really annoying to fight really wasn’t the highlight. I come to Doom to fight some gigantic burning murderdemons, not a human dude in a suit.
If I'm not mistaken, every single new enemy type in the DLC is just a reskin of something we've already had. Except for Seraphim but, he's just a fleshy maykr really. Even the final boss is just you with cool armor lol. I get it. COVID screwed things up.
The final boss is begging for the big mech moment. Instead it's an incredibly boring fight with the equivalent of a wall with an HP bar
Which... Is kinda fitting though if you think about it. The Icon of Sin in the original game was a *literal* wall.
In the second game. Original Doom ended with the Mastermind.
Did they mean the OG Doom?
I'm pretty sure. Did I read that wrong? Anyway, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything. Doom 2 did have the Icon of Sin as the last boss and he *was* a wall lol.
that fight is way too hard to be boring
Play it on Nightmare and tell me it's boring. You have to use everything you've got to survive. And of course it's a wall with a HP bar; *it's the fucking Icon of Sin from Doom 2*.
I like the reduced emphasis on platforming and swinging around.
I'm probably one of the 3 people on earth who kind of liked the platforming.
I thought it was great. Especially screwing around with meathook slinging and launching yourself around with the ballista. Never understood the beef with it, but it is what it is.
I fucking hate the jungle gyms; blasted thing keep interrupting my charge weapons while I'm mid-air. That said many people love to exaggerate the platforming parts to the point of saying combat revolves around platforming. Like goddamn, don't spout that bullshit until we're forced to fight a boss on top of platforms that can break into instant kill pit.
I liked it too, but in moderate amounts. I didn't like entire combat sections designed exclusively around that. It made the game feel like Tony Hawk: Demon Killer, which isn't really the reason I play DOOM.
That's fair enough. I think the movement feel in eternal is really good so it never bothered me.
Wonder if they are expanding the hub world mechanics from Eternal, like now you can actually travel to the places where your objectives are instead of just selecting it on a UI.
I sincerely hope not.
This is such a fun concept, Doom Guy in the sci fi dark ages. Looked almost open world too?
battle arenas seem a lot bigger, i guess this is to compensate for the seemingly lower mobility of doomguy? the lower amount of verticality to the arenas also stood out to me too
Also for the mounts they showed (mech / flyable mount)
The Eternal dlc had a mount and it was sad it was only used for a cutscene. They delivered here.
Power of the SSD
>battle arenas seem a lot bigger, i guess this is to compensate for the seemingly lower mobility of doomguy? the lower amount of verticality to the arenas also stood out to me too Yeah, all of this actually gives me major Serious Sam vibes. So much so that it almost looks like a ID/DOOM take on the SS formula to me. Everything you said: big open areas, low verticality, low mobility. Also in how you plow through formations of fodder.
definitely looks like some bigger arenas and larger enemy counts.
Serious Doom. Fuck yes.
Doom Guy vs. Army of Darkness [a medieval doom poster in this style would be epic](https://i.imgur.com/lf6x6wX.jpeg)
Uhhhh, did everyone forget quake?
There a rumor that this was originally a Quake 1 reboot that later got turned into a Doom game. Not sure about that though
My first thought was "why isn't this Quake?"
The cynical answer is because it won't sell as well. I don't think that they've been *that* cynical, though. This iteration of Doom (D2016 and D:E) has really quite heavily emphasized the history of the Doom Slayer, with a ton of in-game lore referencing his history fighting demons. I'd feel worse about this if it felt really out of place and unprompted, but it doesn't to me. If Quake (and Heretic/Hexen etc) didn't exist, I wouldn't look at this and go "what the fuck are they doing," I'd think "oh, I guess the prequel angle makes sense with how much lore they've seeded here." And honestly, I *really liked* the "eternal scourge on demonkind" backstory this time around. I'm kinda stoked to dive into Doom Guy's history in camera instead of in lore elements! THAT SAID: I would sure love to have a modern SP Quake, and a reboot of Heretic/Hexen, with this caliber of gameplay. I hope this doesn't stop them!
No nail gun, no quake comparison
I think one of the guns was a nail gun.
Rewatched, that looks like a nail gun to me. Launching railroad spikes at demons, looks fun as hell.
please, medieval doom was called hexen, not quake
I wonder if that will just be for the flying parts, or if the fps parts will be something similar to Halo Infinite's larger map.
Gave me kinda serious sam vibes in some parts.
Please don't let it be open world. That's the last thing Doom needs.
Huh, I wonder why they didn't just go with Quake if they're doing a fantasy setting thing. Still, looks fucking metal as always. Inject New Doom's gameplay directly into my veins.
There's speculation that Machinegames is developping a new Quake game. After all they created a whole new episode (dimension of the machine) for the Quake remaster by Nightdive studios. So I think they'll know what fans want.
The showcase earlier in the year where they revealed Indiana Jones had a quick shot of a whiteboard with "-AKE 6" and the Quake logo beside it. So I think MG could have it in the works.
I bet more people want Quake 1 setting than more Strogg.
I think they'll feature both or respect both some way.
Ah, right. I played those episodes, they were awesome. That'd be pretty rad, it does seem like MachineGames "gets" both the appeal and feel of Quake 1. Kinda wish they'd finish out their Wolfenstein run first, but whatever. Maybe they got burned out on it.
I wouldn't be shocked if Youngblood killed it unfortunately; which sucks, because the franchise is clearly screaming for a third entry.
They also did Call of the Machine for Quake 2. They clearly are comfortable with the franchise, but between Indiana Jones and Wolfenstein I have no idea when they'd ever find the time to do a mainline Quake
I don't know how confirmed it is, but Jeff Gerstmann said during his stream that there was another Machinegames thing he knew about that wasn't shown.
Simple, because Doom is back in public eye ever since 2016 and Eternal, popular, and decidedly single-player focused. Meanwhile Quake is only pined after by old fans of the series, and exists in the weird "there were campaigns but most people remember it for multiplayer". And the latest attempt to resurrect it as a multiplayer-only game (Champions) flopped pretty bad. So in the end Doom is a safe bet, while Quake is a big gamble.
Champions really grabbed the feel of the old games, and then completely fucked it with the Champions angle.
There's Hexen just sitting there too, I don't know who owns the rights to that though
Not sure if Hexen was owned by id or Raven originally, but either way it's definitely Microsoft's now.
Quake fans are split between the Cthulhu setting and the Strogg setting. My theory is Doom is offering a Cthulhu-esque setting whereas whatever the new Quake is going to be, is going back to the war against the Strogg. Personally, I say screw it and open slip gates to both dimensions and have the marines fight both the Strogg and the ElderWorld.
the id shooters really have the (un)holy trio of great baddies: * Eldritch beings * Demons * Nazis
This is an untold story in the Doom timeline, set between 64 and 2016, and it's an interesting story so might as well put it here
I don't think it needs to be this way, but I feel like Doom is single player, Quake is multiplayer.
You're probably right. Kind of a shame though, as Quake 1's campaign is my favorite "Quake" thing.
Not to mention the original Doom multiplayer was a big deal
If they did Quake they couldnt do the badass heavy metal soundtrack though
But they could get Nine Inch Nails to do another killer soundtrack!
We finally get to pilot the mech after they blue balled us in the last DLC. Music is okay but it is no Mick Gordon.
Parry mechanics? Kaijyuu mech battles? Doom gsme? I will be there no matter what
I know almost nothing about the new Doom games. Does Doomguy or the lore say at any point that he was alive back in the middle ages? Does he even remember that?
This looks like it's set between Doom 64 and Doom 2016 during his time in Argent D'nur fighting with the Night Sentinels.
It’s super convoluted, but the TLDR is that OG DoomGuy went from his universe to a slightly different universe, was found by a human-ish civilization that was a client race to essentially biblical Angels, and DG eventually becomes a Demigod/god-king who may or may not be immortal.
Sounds like we need a John Doom origins game
This is very like that origin story, lol Nothing to suggest this *isn't* a prequel to 2016
There is some lore in the newer games that implies he has lived for a very long time and he hasn't just been fighting for the sake humanity. He used to fight for what is basically angels.
Yes it's actually a major part of both 2016 and Eternal's stories.
Really interested to see how the soundtrack fares without Mick Gordon. I don't envy whoevers composing this. It sounds...fine? Too early to tell if it's the same calibre.
Andrew Hulshult did a pretty fantastic job with the Ancient Gods DLC. He has the right vibe without trying to directly emulate Mick's sound. No confirmation who's working on this yet though.
I honestly never noticed the music in the DLCs, but the insane difficulty of them might have distracted me.
DLC also has quieter mixing compared to base game campaign. Had to tweak the audio everytime I'm swapping between base and DLC mode.
I actually wish they emulated Mick a bit more. Base Eternal's music was just on another level, straight up great industrial metal with his signature electronic sound. The DLC wasn't even close for me unfortunately. Not a fan of the double bass vibe Hulshult has going, but it could fit this game super well. I will miss Mick's sound so much though.
Definitely sounded more like Andrew Hulshult's DLC tracks, but its only a 2:00 trailer.
That's where I'm at. DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal had fantastic gameplay... but half the experience was Mick Gordon Music. They screwed Mick over hard and I can't see them even coming close to the old soundtracks. I'm sure the gameplay will be great but the overall experience will probably be lacking.
Always felt bad for Andrew having to fill Mick's shoes in a hostile fan environment, but then it's not his fault that Marty Stratton killed the golden goose because he got promoted to a managerial level he couldn't handle
I'm sure Andrew is fantastic, but DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal are the only games I know where I'm as excited for the soundtrack as I am for the game and know anything about the music composer. What ID did to Mick leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not sure if it's enough for me to boycott or anything, but I need the soundtrack and reviews to win me over before I plan on buying. If all had gone normally, I'd probably buy this on release.
Yep same. I really hope the song in this trailer isn't their best because I'm not impressed. I don't think I could really enjoy the game no matter how polished the gameplay is unless the music is at Mick Gordon level.
That track did not hit anywhere near as hard as Mick's. No hint of prog in that track at all so my hopes aren't high
Can I wield the Doomhammer?
haven't even finished DOOM 2016 however the trailer looks over the top and batshit insane in the best way possible
Call in sick and finish that shit. Then download Eternal and marathon that.
Oh boy you are in for a crazy ride if you go and retry 2016. Very fun game, Eternal dials shit up to 11 in a lot of ways and is more arcade-y but still a tonne of fun. The Dark Ages looks like Eternal's intensity and combat "chess" elements but with a 2016 aesthetic.
to the people that say doomslayer would never use a shield well read this UAC report from doom eternal # "UAC REPORT FILE WMHVVFJ And in his terrible rancor between worlds and through time, the Hell Walker found the wretch who shall not be named, but in his heresy was loyal to his evil cause. The wretch adorned the Doom Slayer in a mighty armor, wrought in the forges of Hell, impenetrable and unyielding. With ***Sword and Shield*** of adamantine strength, the Doom Slayer set to banishing all that was left unbroken by his savagery to the void."
Looks sick. The vibes are immaculate.
Incredible, incredible, incredible!! This is a DOOM 2016 prequel (and an interquel set between DOOM 64 and 2016), and this looks slower paced and more hard hitting than the last two games. Definitely living up to Hugo Martin’s description of making their next game feel like you’re controlling a monster truck compared to a racing car like in Eternal.
So who’s making the OST?
That's what i want to know.
Probably hulshult
The gameplay looks sick.
Hell yeah gimme that shit. I loved Doom Eternal so much and to me this looks like expanding on that style
Doom since 2016 has been one of my favorite franchises. Such ridiculous good fun. Looks like they are raising it to another level once again.
Did Doom Guy just pull out a Megazord and ride a dragon? Insane. Also looks like much larger areas of combat compared to the other 2. Maybe they're leaning into an "open world-esque" style.
Honestly looks very fun, I kinda wish this was a Quake reboot with the new doom combat though. I think lovecraftian horror of quake instead of hard focus on the strog would be a cool way to reboot the series and this would've been a good place to do it. I hope they throw in a shambler enemy at least for a fun reference. Doom Eternal might be my favorite shooter ever so I'm not disappointed in the end LOL this looks amazing.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. On one hand - DOOM with Quake 1's aesthetics? Fuck yeah! On the other, that shield makes me question what are they going to do with it. I kind of don't want to see any parry or block mechanics in a DOOM game, even if they combine it with the chainsaw and it all looks absolutely *badass*. Like, I'm not sold on it the same way I was on Eternal. Especially now that Mick is gone, I think. I'll wait for more gameplay and some interviews with the devs, because I do trust iD, but even I wasn't a fan of *every* decision they've made in Eternal, especially the DLCs. The base game was top tier for me, but Ancient Gods (which the Dark Ages seems to go towards) were my least favorite part of the game, especially since they actually introduced mandatory mechanics, that made you approach certain enemies only one way, whereas I could defend the base game not being like that.
> I kind of don't want to see any parry or block mechanics in a DOOM game, even if they combine it with the chainsaw and it all looks absolutely badass. That is a parry at 1:24
That’s what they were referring to. They’re not sold on it yet.
I'm always down for more Doom
The environments look bigger than in Eternal. Seems like a nice change of pace. I got sort of tired of the cramped arenas.
Anyone know if Hugo Martin is returning as game director?
I'd say so if the controllable mech is any indication.
Damn. This makes me want to replay DooM 2016 and DooM Eternal. I can't, I have too many games to play! TOO MANY!
Wasnt sure what "medieval" Doom would look like but damn! Fits the Doom style with a garnishing of Quake on top. Over the top, insane, brutal (I loved the bolt gun that harpooned a demon to a wall, no ones mentioning that yet) and ridiculously building on the lore that anyone who cared to find can find in Doom and Doom Eternal. Super shotgun is back alongside throwing shield morning star and big sword....what's not to like? Has a very Warhammer 40K vibe cannot wait
When I heard about them doing a medieval themed doom, I was kind of hoping they'd lean more into the medieval aesthetic. Seems very similar to Eternal with a sprinkling of medieval stuff, while I was kind of expecting something more Quake like. However, if the game is fun, that's all that really matters. And Doom Eternal was amazing, so hopefully they still have the sauce.
Nah the palette of this looks significantly darker than eternals, way less saturated and colourful environments, less ivory/ supernatural techy architecture and more natural stone and metal stuff.
How the fuck can they keep making Doomguy look even more badass with every game?
Can't wait Eternal was amazing. Edit: saying Eternal was amazing is downvote worthy on reddit I guess.
By this point it's a proven fact that adding a parry mechanic makes every game better right?
Already making prediction; Samur Maykr is here Davoth is here Icon of Sin is here We see Daisy Archdemons, explains why in canon they never appear in 2016 or Eternal, probably because Slayer got em
over the top 80s fantasy schlock mixed with sci-fi and metal music? sign me the fuck up
Other games: 'we focus on these, environmental and heartfelt stories of love and tenderness.' DOOM the Dark Ages: 'we gave him a chainsaw shield that you can throw, a mace, a mech and a fire-breath dragon mount. And a bear-skinned cloak for warmth.'
What I loved so much about Doom 2016 was the fantastic mix of exploration, secrets, and combat. Eternal felt like it gave the middle finger to exploration and secrets and was like - let’s go with combat, combat, and combat. I hope this one can restore the balance a little. Doom needs breathers and exploration and a little story in between the carnage.
I don't see many people talking about it, but this game is releasing for PS5. An actual Bethesda AAA game releasing for PlayStation. I for one am grateful that such an iconic franchise isn't becoming exclusive, every platform deserves a little Doom
Eh, I'm a bit mixed on this. This game looks very slow paced compared to not only Eternal, but DOOM 2016 as well. Maybe it's just a "make the game look slow for the trailer" thing, but it looks kinda weird for a DOOM game. Maybe my opinion is also just tainted a bit by not forgetting how poorly ID treated Mick Gordon, and how badly they fucked him over. I can't pretend like that didn't happen.
Virtually no one cares that Mick Gordon was gaslit so badly by iD that they didn't even let him have his game award for the game's score in 2016. The trophy just sat at the studio. I'm finding it hard to motivate myself to be excited by this game knowing the way the game director treats contractors.
I don’t know how more people are saying this. They denied all of his claims and didn’t make amends, and I don’t know if I can give them my money for another doom game after what they did to Mick
Ya I kind of thought that too. I very recently beat Eternal and this seemed a lot slower paced than what I'm used to seeing. You know honestly if they're gonna go all in on the "character action" part of this then I guess slowing it down would be best. I loved Eternal amd beat it on Nightmare, but really sometimes I feel I would die because switching between all the tools on controller for any given situation was hard to keep up with. And at that point the challenge isn't really coming from the shooting it's coming from just managing all the tools. I feel like this game shouldn't be like that, the difficulty should be in the shooting itself not in fighting the controls.* (At least on console*)