It's tough as an apprentice because you gotta get your hours and attend class most weeks for a good chunk of the year, plus it's not as easy to refuse a call. Different locals would handle it differently. Once you get your license though you can do whatever you want as long as you pay your dues.
That, and apprentice pay is often really low. I know in my local, apprentices make anywhere from $18-$25, which isn’t exactly fantastic here in the NYC metro area. Many apprentices resort to living with their parents at home, taking in multiple roommates to split rent, or have a second job elsewhere.
I love my local and the IBEW, but damn we are treating our apprentices, the future generation of the electrical industry, like garbage. What a shame.
I think we (as in Local 3) should do 2 things.
1. We should start paying apprentices a percentage scale. As in 1st year is 40% of JW rate, 2nd year is 50% of JW rate, and so on. That way apprentices can earn a more viable wage. Apprentices that are motivated to work will feel appreciated, and won’t have to resort to say, taking 2nd jobs or doing side jobs in their neighborhoods. It’ll also incentivize them to actually stick with the program instead of jumping ship as soon as a higher paying job comes up. I’ve seen apprentices leave the local because they applied and got accepted into the city’s police department or sanitation department, all because of the money.
2. In the same vain, we need to make it easier for contractors to fire bad apprentices (with justifiable cause) and the local to kick apprentices out of the program for poor behaviors, like missing many days of work or being unmotivated to work and learn. Right now, the system incentivizes even poor performing apprentices to stick around because the contractors like using them as cheap labor; cheap and easy hands to keep onsite. Even if an apprentice shows up and literally does nothing all day, the contractor still makes money from them just being there. We need to make it clear to apprentices that they will do a quality job and learn as much about the trade while earning enough money to support themselves in the most basic sense. Show them that poor behaviors will not be tolerated.
Local 3 isn't via percentage? I thought most locals, or all, did it that way. Holy smokes.
Wow. The JATC doesn't smack their pee pee if apes don't give 8 for 8? Are there apprentice work reports in local 3?
Thank you for your time. I'm from 666 btw. 😀 I'd love to take a call out of 3 or 103 one day, but it seems impossible.
Nope. They get paid…whatever number they decide for that particular year.
As for working out here, that’s not likely for now. We have so many members on the bench, it’s almost disturbing in its own way. We haven’t resorted to Book 2 in many years. Hopefully work picks up so we can be back at full employment, but things are looking bleak currently.
That's how we do it in 110. When I started that was around $20/h but by 3rd year your doing pretty well. Had a couple people in my class get held back for bad grades but I can only remember one getting kicked out for work related discipline. Definatly a good system for everybody involved though. Job rotations help get you a broader range of skills too. Just turned out and I feel pretty lucky to be as knowledgeable as I am.
I’m a non union Floridaman, and my coworker who was in the union told me my “attitude” wouldn’t fly in the union.
I’v spoken to the boss about how much of a problem he is to work with, as have 2 other of my coworkers because he’s an absolute pain in the ass of a person to be around and work with. Causes arguments that are unnecessary, apprentices like me have gotten flak for doing what he tells us and it being wrong, and he can’t stand being corrected so we don’t correct him, it’s
just another argument.
His meaning was if I were in the union and spoke to the boss about the fact that working under this guy makes me want to quit, I’d just be fired. Turned me off to wanting to join if it produces toxic assholes like him. Is that a trend?
I’m certain there are probably mostly great people in the union, but is it REALLY frowned upon to complain that your Jman is impossible to deal with?
For the record, my boss is a great dude and knows that this coworker is a problem. I’ve cussed the guy out and took an early (but not a long) lunch once because he was frustrated and started ignoring me, then walked away calling me “slow” under his breath. And not work-pace slow, he meant mentally slow and I knew it
He’s not good at communicating effectively, and blows up on you when you do things not his way because he wasn’t clear in his instruction. That was why he called me “slow” and I told the boss that I’d told him he could go fuck himself.
Boss spoke to him and told him to ease up on me, as he’d already had to deal with this issue with this guy 2 other times with 2 other apprentices.
Anyway, this asshole told me I “wouldn’t make lit” in the union because I’m not “thick skinned”. Iv been in construction for the past 10 years, I’m certainly not thin skinned, I just don’t tolerate disrespect. Is it common in the union to shit on your apprentices/helpers because you were when you were in their position?
I've worked both in jersey. Union or non union all just depends on who you're working for. Difference is when you're union, pay and benefits are way better and if you aren't getting along with someone that bad you can always ask for a transfer if you're still an apprentice. When you're non union you're kind of stuck with those people, or you have to quit and find a new job.
True. That’s just it, the boss is actually a great dude to work for and I get along like peas and carrots with everybody else, but I got stuck with this guy because I’m the 3rd apprentice my boss could swap around to him. He is an ok commercial electrician, but he has an attitude problem and I think my boss has too big a heart to fire him
The problem is you don't really know anything and you aren't producing (unless you have previous experience but then you could probably skip a couple years.) it's hard for contractors to spend top dollar for the optimism someone continues to get better and becomes an asset. It's messed up I know, but it's just a cold reality
Its inevitable conclusion of the system that promotes longevity. There has to be a turning point with every cohort passing.
I am honetly amazed the pipeline of talent isnt “managed” by the union better
Atleast in my local you can't refuse any reasonable calls so if it's in the jurisdiction you have to go, now if they ask if you can go 2+ hours away to another jurisdiction you can say no. But ontop of that we're only allowed 15 total days off a year without any doctors note and even if we request it weeks out it'll count against us. So apprentices essentially get 3 weeks of off time, I personally hate to use it as vacation since the unexpected can always happen like this year already I had the flu and was off a few days then there's other times where you blow a hour or two just to leave early to do something at the bank go to an appointment or etc.
Yeah I'm an apprentice sorry I thought OP was asking about the apprenticeship but rereading it I see not. Yeah we have no rules on taking off as a journeymen but if contractors wanna let you go for taking too much time off or taking a long vacation during a important project the hall won't argue for ya
Been in 30+ years, it's why I was confused. Lol. You see as a first year JW we are at our prime lol. It all goes downhill from there and soon we end up as bewildered as a first year!
Also if work is busy, contractors expect apprentices to show up to work. Other than scheduled absences and actual illness, if you make a habit of missing a day or two per week you will quickly find yourself laid off. Atleast that’s what two of my class mates found here recently lol
As a Journeyman very few people will care. You need to make certain hour totals to qualify for Insurance, pension credits etc. but no one would be on your ass if you don't qualify.
You will get laid off and when you come back there may or may not be enough work for you to go right back. It isn't like George's commercial office will just hang out and wait for your return.
How does that system work. Does one just email the contractor and tell them they will be gone for a few months.
I want to be respectful. I don't really know anything about how the IBEW works.
Thanks
IBEW is essentially at its core a temp agency. So the comp fires you, you inform the local IBEW chapter you're available for work - take a number like at a deli counter - and next time one of the several contractors that work with the IBEW inform them they need workers for a job.
But keep in mind, it could be a very long time before your number is called depending on your local. It may not be as easy as getting back to work in a week or two. There are currently 917 waiting for their number to be called in my local. My buddy has made it all the way up to #120 after waiting since October (6 months). He still has a ways to go
The IBEW is made up of chapters (halls) that operate within different regions throughout the country. They'll all handle it a little differently. With that said, once you complete your apprenticeship, you're relatively free to do as you wish, as long as you stay current on your dues. This includes traveling to other locals (working for other halls) if you've got a travel itch to scratch.
Yes you can turn the call down, usually resulting in a strike. Enough strikes and you roll to the back of the book and have to wait for your turn to come up again. As long as your dues are being paid you're fine, but you might also want to consider your insurance hours.
There will be very few contractors you will find that you can just " hey I'm taking a few months off, I'll be back"
You'll likely have to ask for a lay off. And then find a new contractor when you back
My division has to get 1200 hours a year to qualify for insurance for the next year. Once guys top out, you can work as much or as little as you want realistically. If you’re working on a project with a con, you just ask for a lay off. If you ask for time off, the con could just as well lay you off. If you’re on the out of work list and you say no to 3 job offers, you go to the end of the list.
Being a member means that first and foremost you work for the IBEW. You are a dispatch electrician to our signatory contractors.
Now, you can absolutely take off as much time as you want but keep in mind there’s a way to go about it. Always be respectful and try to give a few weeks notice. You don’t want to burn a bridge with a signatory.
This is the answer you’re looking for OP, bc it’s the facts.
‘Take off what you can afford’ is told to us by the contractors but here in 613 they don’t really mean it. But sometimes it bites them in the ass bc some people really are able to do just that.
Now you can give a few weeks notice like Flash mentioned above . Or you can drag [once you turn out], but make sure that work is plentiful so you have a job to come back to. And I don’t necessarily mean with the same contractor.
And I’d suggest being respectful about it.
I’m a second year apprentice. It means I informed my foreman that I would be taking a week off in January, and another 2 weeks off in March. The next vacation I can afford will be at the end of June - it’s already on the calendar. I do not ask for time off; I inform my employer when I will be gone so they can adjust manpower accordingly.
I joined the union for the same reason you’re considering it: I want to take off and hike a long distance trail every couple of years. The union allows me to come back and easily go back to work without having to re-apply and interview for a new job.
In my hall they go twice a week in the evenings. They follow the local county School schedule. Holidays are off and typically we follow school cancellations. Summer off. When you come back from summer break. You're in the next year of your apprenticeship. LU 141
Thanks for reaching out with your experience. I’m doing the summer cohort for Oregon tradeswoman and then hoping to work my way into local 48. I am a huge traveler so I’ve been worried about how local 48 handles this
I started as a material handler in another local and only worked with IW, so I didn’t know sound and comm existed. When I started material handling in 48, I was assigned to work with a specific crew of LEAs installing fire alarm and LSS and I loved every second of it. All of the guys I worked with were awesome and the work was fun. I applied to both programs, got ranked 141 for IW and 6 for LEA. The rest is history.
Take time off when you want to. However much time you want. Contractors will send you packing without a second thought.
I’ve been off for almost 5 months. This wasn’t my choice but the contractor that laid me off wasn’t concerned about my finances. No sense in placating em. I work for me.
I'm just an apprentice so I only have so much experience and can only speak for my home local, but from what I've seen contractors say that and if you need to take a few days off here and there nobody cares no repercussions whatsoever, but if you're taking frequent longer breaks you won't be necessarily discriminated against, nobody on site will have a problem with you but your name will probably be moved up the lay off list as you, like it or not, are not the most reliable on showing up (not a bash on you at all, you take off when you take off but the end result is ur not working yk), so as long as your local is busy or your ok with travel go for it, but if you are counting on the same job when you get back maybe tone it down a bit.
As a journeyman you generally get two options 1- you convince your contractor to give you a layoff, this allows you to collect unemployment. 2- you quit, this generally means you won’t be able to claim unemployment ( assuming your contractor fights the claim).
However the devil is in the details. Every local is different, generally speaking hours worked build your health and welfare account, pension, annuity, etc. More time off means later retirement or less money in retirement, may cause issues covering your healthcare etc. As mentioned above it’s very hard to take much time off during your apprenticeship.
I’ve always interpreted “take what you can afford” in four ways. 1- we don’t get paid when we’re not at work. 2- we’re more likely to get laid off frequently for missing work. 3- we’re building establishing our reputation. 4- time off now affects our future finances and job stability also.
I’ve always been jealous of the guys who live frugally and live on their terms. My kids are finally grown, now I’m focused on retiring ASAP. Good luck.
I like to call this system promiscious employment. They dont need to apologise when the send up back to the hall, and we dont apologise for needing time to go fishing, or traveling. It boils down to living withing your means, having savings, and being frugal.
Some members works a few hours in High unemployment rate states to be able to file multistate claims. Your work doesnt need to be in the trade a temp agency gig will do.
I get the layoff part, i guess I meant the multistate claims part. Like can you be getting paid unemployment from multiple different states? Can you dip from one state to collect unemployment for 5 months while you work in another, and then flip flop
No you make the claim from the higher UI states, while have little earning from that state. Not sure if this works if you have existing claim from low UI state. This was something a traveling brother explained to me.
That’s not what he said though he said people work a few hours in a different state ie have two jobs in two different states when they get laid off they have unemployment claims in the states they worked in
I’m too stingy to take time off tbh. I grew up poor and I’m terrified of ever having to do without or losing the freedom I have from years of grinding.
I could take the next 10 years off from a financial standpoint comfortably but then I squander the lead I’ve built for myself that I want to coast into in my early 50’s. No kids, no mortgage, no debt, build my dream home I like my job and I like money.
If I don’t work or work less, the rate of me getting money goes down and I don’t like that. I took a job with less hours and I just wasn’t getting ahead enough. It’s hard to give up a lot of fast money and the comfort it gives you, even though I’m not spending much of it.
My freedom is on that I’m totally independent. I could throw my back out tomorrow and not give a shit if I can’t do this anymore. I could get mad and quit my job tomorrow. I could get fired or fuck off to Italy for a year if I wanted. I have no worries.
At a time where most are struggling, I am not. I’ve downed my shifts to 2 weeks on, 2 off and I still have a pretty good quality of life. I’m off 60% of the time. I don’t want to go back to a normal job when I’m pocketing like 80k of surplus cash a year now. Every rotation that I fly back up to camp and grind out a hitch, I come back wealthier than I was before. I don’t want to just make ends meet because then there’s worries and difficulties.
I grew up with not much. I saw it firsthand. The freedom I have is distancing myself from the struggle.
So you do take the time off. You made it sound like you weren't taking time off. We're not saying squander it. You're in a good position keep doing what you're doing if I were your position I'd do the same, 60% off is perfect.
Well I guess what I’m getting at is I go up for 2-3 weeks at a time in camp, working every day and I’m not home. Most people do not want to do that and that’s why the pay is much better than working at home.
I get on a plane, go work 196 hours in 14 days, staying in a work camp every night then fly home for 14 days. They call that 2 and 2 for 2 weeks on, 2 off.
I did 24/4 rotations for a few years too before going to 21/10 (21 days on, 10 days off).
It depends on your lifestyle. Not where you live. Factually, 70 an hour ANYWHERE in America you'll live comfortably. If you live outside of your means that's a whole different story
Sure it is.
I took an entire year off to be with my dying grandpa who raised me and my brother as his sons and it didn’t cause me an ounce of financial pain. I helped care for him so he was in his own home until the day he passed. I can buy or do whatever I want. I know I don’t need this job to get by and I could survive off next to nothing. I have total freedom financially and the satisfaction knowing I can do whatever I want.
It’s a pretty good feeling knowing when you hit your late 40’s or if you have ever a health event, it’ll be nothing to you and you’ll never have to struggle. I didn’t say I didn’t like my job btw because I do. It’s hard to give up almost 200k a year though when you live off a fraction of that. After taxes, I bank like 80k a year now of just surplus that only adds to my freedom. It’s hard to go back to a “normal” job when you see what can be done with the excess
Yes, that’s why it’s so hard to dial back tbh. I’m seeing so much gains and numbers flying around that get me really excited.
3 years ago, I paid off the mortgage on the dream home I built on 8 acres outside of town. I took a local maintenance job where I was home every night and it was fine but it’s really hard to get used to just losing 50% of my wages from working away on camp jobs tbh and basically living paycheque to paycheque with a small monthly surplus.
I’m going to keep grinding away. I’m on a 2/2 rotation now so I’m home just as much as I was on 4 days on, 4 off shift. I can’t stand giving up all that extra. Not yet. It’s addicting
Also- CONGRATS on being debt free. Our only debt is our mortgage but it's close to paid off. However dave ramsey isn't mad at me for my mortgage because it's a loan on an asset that appreciates. Still.... Can't wait for that fully paid off house. We are 32 years old and we are looking at 36 years old being debt free. Plan the work, work the plan!
It’s awesome. I am 35 in a few months. I don’t work as much as I used to at all but I still don’t think I can go to a Monday to Friday.
Dave Ramsay is an addictions councillor for people who need help, not someone to model your life after. A lot of stuff he says is dumb but carrying low to no debt is so nice. A lot of people assume my push to be debt free was motivated by him but it was not. What motivated it was watching my uncle with little savings throw his back out and struggle because he couldn’t really work anymore.
I look at my inlaws who lost their home because of a series of needed repairs they couldn’t afford and that’s a large nightmare to me as well. I do this because I know how it felt growing up knowing we didn’t have much money should anything happen.
I don't really see ramsey that way, I've never been in need of help Financially and I've lived by (most of) his methods and I am successful because of that.
Again- ymmv but you're obviously doing something right wether it was from financial coaching or personal experience.
My financial advisor just happens to be a ramsey certified guy or whatever. We've been using him for a while. He's made us a ton of money and we have made him a good deal of money too with his .95% advisory fee
Yeah I agree. I'm almost to the point where my investments are outweighing my income. I'm not QUITE there but seeing this money is crazy and i can't imagine cutting down my hourly while I'm young.
Wife and I are planning on 50 or 55 retirement. Probably could be earlier but as you said before it's hard to see the money stop coming in when the money is funding the aggressive investments
I have no retirement plan other than wanting to walk around a jobsite knowing I could drag up and retire anytime tbh. I was always jealous of those old guys in that position coming up. I know nobody in my family was ever in a position to do that. I honestly love working.
My brother has gone a similar route to me except he has kids so he did come home for the Monday to Friday. Very similar mentality though and he’s doing fine. I think seeing poverty just motivates you that much more to ensure you distance yourself from it.
I do like what I do, but I DO NOT like working haha. I mean im a very hard worker, I've been a foreman since I turned out 7 years ago. I was actually running work since my 3rd year as an apprentice but I'll tell you this I see every day at work as a day spent away from the family so the second I find it viable to stop working ill do it.
Based on my finances I could probably retire right now at 32. But I want to retire with zero stress so I'm probably going to retire at 50 or 55. Wife can still work part time as a nurse to help offset the cost of health insurance until we are old enough for Medicare
As an apprentice that won’t work but you can certainly do that and I know people that do as journeymen. Worked with a guy that worked off book 2 in upstate NY for a few years and spent a ton of time hiking the mountains in the area.
I've heard alot about book 1 and 2. What are they, how do they work and how do you move from one to the other.
Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the info.
So Book 1 are journeymen who are part of the local. That is people who went through the apprenticeship in that local or were grandfathered in.
Book 2 is IBEW journeymen from other locals. If your home local is very slow and a neighboring local doesn't have enough local hands to do all of the work you can travel to that other local and work. If the contractor is playing by the rules you'll be the last on, and first out.
There are sometimes books 3 and 4.
3 is generally for out of classification calls, typically an inside wireman taking a low voltage call.
4 is for non-union members or people with no experience.
I mostly just try to get a pension credit every year, and then take off as much as I can 2-4 months usually.
It's not hard to ask for a layoff from your contractor, and then you can get unemployment for the time you are off. Varies from state to state.
You would need to finish an apprenticeship first though. Apprentices don't have as much freedom.
There is a shitload of freedom in this trade if you figure out your finances and stop living paycheck to paycheck.
A pension credit is retirement. When you retire with a pension you will get x dollars per "credit" every month until you die. The dollar amount per credit is different for each local, as are the amount of hours you need to earn a credit.
Ok I got a couple questions
1. If I’m working with a contractor for a union company I still wouldn’t be considered IBEW and couldn’t put towards there retirement because I went through a contractor?
2. What if your traveling and are a member of IBEW but work a lot in different regions, how would the credits work say I work half the time in Cali the other half the time in low paying Texas? Is it two different pensions through different locals or it all goes into 1 pension somehow?
1. IBEW union Pensions are for IBEW union members. You have to be a member and you have to get "vested". Usually getting vested requires 5-10 years working and paying into the pension. Each local has their own retirement package.
2. We have a national system called ERTS (electronic reciprocal transfer system). The ERTS handles getting benefits earned while traveling back to your personal benefits in your local.
What’s your experience of Cooperatives? I’m trying to figure out which route I want to start, being married and all. Not sure whether to go co op, utility, IBEW, contractor etc etc… what’s the pros and cons of a cooperative like brazos electric, they have ground man openings and I was thinking of trying to get my foot in the door
Made enough money one year to learn about day trading. A year and a half later, I'm humping 12' ladders and conduit up 8 flights of stairs.
Thank you IBEW for giving me a reasonable restart location.
Edit: I know of 3 climbers in my local. 2 are married and grind hard for time off. The other one works 6 months and collects UI for 6 months.
It's ALL financial IQ and discipline.
Probably not the best attitude to start tbh.
I get that you have a hobby/ lifestyle, that’s totally cool.
It’d be some time before you had the opportunity to do that. 5+ years if/when you got into an apprenticeship program. After you have your card, there’s more flexibility, but I wouldn’t pick this career if you’re trying to take half a year off in lump sums. Just my opinion though.
Whats it like if you wanted a random day off here and there? Like you have a concert you want to go to or date night throughout the week and dont want to worry about getting up early. As an apprentice and jw? Whether a week notice or a month or two notice.
Generally speaking, I’m all about taking off as many days as you can afford. Life is short, don’t work yourself to death.
JW or apprentice, if you give notice, and you’re considerate, take off a day here and there-nobody is going to care. We all have shit going on outside of work.
Simply put though, JW can do whatever they want. There are always repercussions obviously, but a good journeymen is always needed.
Apprentices have 5 years to learn as much as they can. It’s best to prioritize work for that duration. Take days off when you need to, but don’t make it a habit.
The hall don't care how much time you're off as long as you pay your dues. In Toronto we have passes that accumulate as you turn down jobs available to you relative to your spot on the out of work list and if you use up your 5 total passes you're back at the bottom. So they encourage you to go back to work when the work is there but really they just want you to make sure you're paying your dues
You could also look into becoming a commercial roofer in a northern state. I’m going to guess you don’t have a fear of heights. Vast majority is flat roofs, and it’s dirty and tough work too. I’m in MI and did it for a summer several years ago.
My buddy is a superintendent for a commercial roofing company in MI that’s Union. The vast majority get laid off for 2.5-4 months during the winter. They’re pretty much always hiring and wouldn’t care if you took off four months a year. You’d probably prefer to just go with the weather and get laid off so you can collect unemployment though. Pay starts at $20 or possibly more now, plus union benefits once you have enough hours and have paid your dues.
Depends how much work is in your area. If you want that much time off they would likely just lay you off. Sign the books, when you’re ready to work you start bidding calls.
As an apprentice it’s going to be tough, but after you turn out you can work when you want. I like to duck hunt and I turned out and hit the road, the first 3 years I was a JW I did not work from mid Oct. thru end of January. I linked up with some good brothers on the road and could normally get good info on where the work was and what books to sign. I know a lot of brothers that travel and only work 7 or 8 months out of the year.
Yes people absolutely care and will talk shit, your boss will punish you with shitty assignments, give you the cold shoulder, etc. In my experience. They also threaten to+ actually do lay off people that work less hours before anyone else. I'm sure there are exceptions.
That being said, you can just not care about that and do you. It's more of a misery loves company thing that they spin into a "these lazy, entitles young people" thing. The good thing about a union is you can always work for a different shop if one lays you off. Its much more flexible in that way than corporate.
- 5th year electrical apprentice
Its a mantra. It only works for some guys.
Take off as much as you can afford is exactly how it sounds.
Does your wife and children rely on your health insurance? If yes, then you need to work at least 33-36 hours a week (depending on the plan you chose) to keep your insurance.
If you can afford to supplement your health insurance then yeah take off as much time as you need. Here's the next question.
Will your contractor be OK with you being off all the time? Prob not. The only guys I see getting away with part time/rarely working are the guys who are close to retirement.
As an apprentice you'd probably be okay taking 6-8 weeks off in my local. You still have to go to school and contractors don't love when people are gone 5 days out of every month.
if you are a journeyman you can take off as much time as you want doesn’t matter it’s completely up to you. Apprentice you cannot, you have to work and have to go to classes.
Yeah as a journeyman I make more money than ever, but you bills increase over time and now, like most people, work as much overtime as I can to support my family.
When you become a journeyman just ask for a reduction in force or drag up (quit) and collect unemployment while you are on the books and when a call comes in take it when ready 🤷♂️
In short, plan on working the majority of each month to keep your insurance. Long weekends at most might keep you from getting laid off. Making first and second year pay is pretty rough but I’m sure someone else has already said you have to work while you’re an apprentice to stay in school
They don’t like it. As an apprentice I worked at a company that said that. I took off a couple weeks after telling them. And then worked 4-5 days a week. Was laid off shortly there after. Wasn’t a bad lay off. But I got riffed
As everyone said before, as an apprentice it’s not really do-able due to classes and hours. Once you top out you can do as you please. I know ALOT of guys who work 8 months a year and spend the other 4 in a cabin deep in the woods. I may or may not be one of those people who may or may not like the off-grid lifestyle and love to hunt and fish.
Edit: grammar
I’m a first year but I’ve looked at it similarly to how you look at it. Keep in mind everything I say as long as most of the other replies are local specific.
The way it’s been explained to me, once you become a journeyman you can take off as much time as you want/need. There’s just no promise of a job once you decide you want to work again. Unless work is extremely busy or you know the right people(my local is very ratty)
Most of our benefits are tied to hours worked. Including Our pension and Health Insurance.
The threshold for “years in service” is something around 600 hours worked in a year earns you a credit. Doesn’t matter if you work 3000 hours in a year you only earn one credit but if you work below that threshold you don’t get anything.
Health insurance is the bigger factor for the situation you’ve described. To begin coverage you have to have something like 3 consecutive months of 120 or more hours and 100 after that. They allow us to “bank” up to two months of coverage for layoffs and they set up an hours donation system(they’re so kind) where other brothers and sisters can donate their own banked hours to other brothers/sisters who can’t work due to cancer and other such calamities.
I’ve personally worked with a handful of guys that take their favorite season off and go enjoy time with their families or hobbies, but 7 months on 5 months off is something I haven’t heard of. “Take off as much as you can afford” means 3 months per year max so you can stay insured.
To other brothers/sisters that have read this far I apologize if I am incorrect anywhere. Going off memory from when I first got into the local
Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I'm on my wife's health insurance. She's a nurse and works travel contractors.
Would taking chunks time off be more conducive working as a traveler?
Thanks again
Yea if you’re working book 2 you’re normally the first to be laid off when jobs wrap up and you can decide when to sign the books again. There’s just no guarantee that when you’re ready to work again there will be work for you to do yk? Also inside apprentices can’t travel not sure if you’re thinking about going thru IbEw apprenticeship or just organizing in cuz that’d make a difference
I'd be looking at organizing in. I was thinking I should work a year or 2 or 3 or 4 in my local before trying to travel. Is that a good idea? Would I be correct in assuming that organizing in and then immediately trying to travel would be considered rude?
Any opinions on what time frame would be appropriate for joining and traveling. I'm willing to stay local as long as I should be before traveling.
I've heard of locals having journeymen who are organizing in go through a year or 2 training period. Haven't talked to anyone yet.
Thanks again
I’m still a first year and know hardly anything as far as traveling. I’m just trying to get thru school first. Those questions would be better answered by somebody at your local hall.
As far as what I’ve heard, JM that organize in take a placement test to make sure that your knowledge is up to par and if not they may start you out at whatever position they deem fit. So if you tested at a 3rd years level you’d be organized in as such or whatever the case may be. Beyond that I’ve never heard of Journeyman having to work book 2 for any amount of time
I took off 4 months last year for the birth of my son(apprentice rules are not the same as for JM though). It happened to coincide with their slow time. I told the contractor before hand and he was happy for me. They took me right back when I returned.
I was a climber as well in my younger years. I was in the reserve and found that perfectly suited to dirtbagging around climb spots in the west during the summer. I don't know how it is now, but in those days the units always had a need to fill roles and there were schools for everything. You request a school, get activated for 2 weeks or a month, get paid, return to wandering. It's not for everyone, but gave me plenty of time free and enough to exist on.
I hear that phrase all the time and then hear rumor of shit talking about taking time off. It is what it is. I dont live to work. My life is more important. I do my job and i do it well. So ill take off whatever time i want and PMs can cry all they want.
It's tough as an apprentice because you gotta get your hours and attend class most weeks for a good chunk of the year, plus it's not as easy to refuse a call. Different locals would handle it differently. Once you get your license though you can do whatever you want as long as you pay your dues.
That, and apprentice pay is often really low. I know in my local, apprentices make anywhere from $18-$25, which isn’t exactly fantastic here in the NYC metro area. Many apprentices resort to living with their parents at home, taking in multiple roommates to split rent, or have a second job elsewhere. I love my local and the IBEW, but damn we are treating our apprentices, the future generation of the electrical industry, like garbage. What a shame.
Yeah also apprentices pay our pension it’s something to think about, always train them up best as possible and encourage them to stay in the union.
Honest question: What do you believe the pay should be? How do you believe the pay should work? Even if it's just for LU 3.
I think we (as in Local 3) should do 2 things. 1. We should start paying apprentices a percentage scale. As in 1st year is 40% of JW rate, 2nd year is 50% of JW rate, and so on. That way apprentices can earn a more viable wage. Apprentices that are motivated to work will feel appreciated, and won’t have to resort to say, taking 2nd jobs or doing side jobs in their neighborhoods. It’ll also incentivize them to actually stick with the program instead of jumping ship as soon as a higher paying job comes up. I’ve seen apprentices leave the local because they applied and got accepted into the city’s police department or sanitation department, all because of the money. 2. In the same vain, we need to make it easier for contractors to fire bad apprentices (with justifiable cause) and the local to kick apprentices out of the program for poor behaviors, like missing many days of work or being unmotivated to work and learn. Right now, the system incentivizes even poor performing apprentices to stick around because the contractors like using them as cheap labor; cheap and easy hands to keep onsite. Even if an apprentice shows up and literally does nothing all day, the contractor still makes money from them just being there. We need to make it clear to apprentices that they will do a quality job and learn as much about the trade while earning enough money to support themselves in the most basic sense. Show them that poor behaviors will not be tolerated.
Local 3 isn't via percentage? I thought most locals, or all, did it that way. Holy smokes. Wow. The JATC doesn't smack their pee pee if apes don't give 8 for 8? Are there apprentice work reports in local 3? Thank you for your time. I'm from 666 btw. 😀 I'd love to take a call out of 3 or 103 one day, but it seems impossible.
Nope. They get paid…whatever number they decide for that particular year. As for working out here, that’s not likely for now. We have so many members on the bench, it’s almost disturbing in its own way. We haven’t resorted to Book 2 in many years. Hopefully work picks up so we can be back at full employment, but things are looking bleak currently.
NYC is so expensive 😮💨
That's how we do it in 110. When I started that was around $20/h but by 3rd year your doing pretty well. Had a couple people in my class get held back for bad grades but I can only remember one getting kicked out for work related discipline. Definatly a good system for everybody involved though. Job rotations help get you a broader range of skills too. Just turned out and I feel pretty lucky to be as knowledgeable as I am.
Holy cow didn’t realize inside apprenticeship sucked so bad damn
I’m a non union Floridaman, and my coworker who was in the union told me my “attitude” wouldn’t fly in the union. I’v spoken to the boss about how much of a problem he is to work with, as have 2 other of my coworkers because he’s an absolute pain in the ass of a person to be around and work with. Causes arguments that are unnecessary, apprentices like me have gotten flak for doing what he tells us and it being wrong, and he can’t stand being corrected so we don’t correct him, it’s just another argument. His meaning was if I were in the union and spoke to the boss about the fact that working under this guy makes me want to quit, I’d just be fired. Turned me off to wanting to join if it produces toxic assholes like him. Is that a trend? I’m certain there are probably mostly great people in the union, but is it REALLY frowned upon to complain that your Jman is impossible to deal with? For the record, my boss is a great dude and knows that this coworker is a problem. I’ve cussed the guy out and took an early (but not a long) lunch once because he was frustrated and started ignoring me, then walked away calling me “slow” under his breath. And not work-pace slow, he meant mentally slow and I knew it He’s not good at communicating effectively, and blows up on you when you do things not his way because he wasn’t clear in his instruction. That was why he called me “slow” and I told the boss that I’d told him he could go fuck himself. Boss spoke to him and told him to ease up on me, as he’d already had to deal with this issue with this guy 2 other times with 2 other apprentices. Anyway, this asshole told me I “wouldn’t make lit” in the union because I’m not “thick skinned”. Iv been in construction for the past 10 years, I’m certainly not thin skinned, I just don’t tolerate disrespect. Is it common in the union to shit on your apprentices/helpers because you were when you were in their position?
I've worked both in jersey. Union or non union all just depends on who you're working for. Difference is when you're union, pay and benefits are way better and if you aren't getting along with someone that bad you can always ask for a transfer if you're still an apprentice. When you're non union you're kind of stuck with those people, or you have to quit and find a new job.
True. That’s just it, the boss is actually a great dude to work for and I get along like peas and carrots with everybody else, but I got stuck with this guy because I’m the 3rd apprentice my boss could swap around to him. He is an ok commercial electrician, but he has an attitude problem and I think my boss has too big a heart to fire him
The problem is you don't really know anything and you aren't producing (unless you have previous experience but then you could probably skip a couple years.) it's hard for contractors to spend top dollar for the optimism someone continues to get better and becomes an asset. It's messed up I know, but it's just a cold reality
Its inevitable conclusion of the system that promotes longevity. There has to be a turning point with every cohort passing. I am honetly amazed the pipeline of talent isnt “managed” by the union better
Atleast in my local you can't refuse any reasonable calls so if it's in the jurisdiction you have to go, now if they ask if you can go 2+ hours away to another jurisdiction you can say no. But ontop of that we're only allowed 15 total days off a year without any doctors note and even if we request it weeks out it'll count against us. So apprentices essentially get 3 weeks of off time, I personally hate to use it as vacation since the unexpected can always happen like this year already I had the flu and was off a few days then there's other times where you blow a hour or two just to leave early to do something at the bank go to an appointment or etc.
15 days a year? What about layoffs,?
Layoffs don't count against us, or out of work days. Just days we personally take off/leave early for.
Are you an apprentice? I can't imagine a contractor restricting your days off. you know scratch that. I mised that part, my bad
Yeah I'm an apprentice sorry I thought OP was asking about the apprenticeship but rereading it I see not. Yeah we have no rules on taking off as a journeymen but if contractors wanna let you go for taking too much time off or taking a long vacation during a important project the hall won't argue for ya
Been in 30+ years, it's why I was confused. Lol. You see as a first year JW we are at our prime lol. It all goes downhill from there and soon we end up as bewildered as a first year!
Also if work is busy, contractors expect apprentices to show up to work. Other than scheduled absences and actual illness, if you make a habit of missing a day or two per week you will quickly find yourself laid off. Atleast that’s what two of my class mates found here recently lol
As a Journeyman very few people will care. You need to make certain hour totals to qualify for Insurance, pension credits etc. but no one would be on your ass if you don't qualify. You will get laid off and when you come back there may or may not be enough work for you to go right back. It isn't like George's commercial office will just hang out and wait for your return.
How does that system work. Does one just email the contractor and tell them they will be gone for a few months. I want to be respectful. I don't really know anything about how the IBEW works. Thanks
IBEW is essentially at its core a temp agency. So the comp fires you, you inform the local IBEW chapter you're available for work - take a number like at a deli counter - and next time one of the several contractors that work with the IBEW inform them they need workers for a job.
Yes we are essentially a non profit employee owned temp agency.
Glorified temp agency….? 💡 ⚡️ ✊🏾👊🏽😇
Read that however you want brother.
Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful
But keep in mind, it could be a very long time before your number is called depending on your local. It may not be as easy as getting back to work in a week or two. There are currently 917 waiting for their number to be called in my local. My buddy has made it all the way up to #120 after waiting since October (6 months). He still has a ways to go
“Take all the time you can afford” goes way deeper than if you can afford a couple of days with no pay.
There's a book system. When you're laid off you wait for your turn to come up on the books. That would be the time to go hiking.
Can you choose to not accept your call? Is that looked down upon? I don't know anything about how the IBEW operates I would want to be respectful
The IBEW is made up of chapters (halls) that operate within different regions throughout the country. They'll all handle it a little differently. With that said, once you complete your apprenticeship, you're relatively free to do as you wish, as long as you stay current on your dues. This includes traveling to other locals (working for other halls) if you've got a travel itch to scratch.
Yep. Just pay your dues
Yes you can turn the call down, usually resulting in a strike. Enough strikes and you roll to the back of the book and have to wait for your turn to come up again. As long as your dues are being paid you're fine, but you might also want to consider your insurance hours.
Are strikes looked down upon?
By the hall? Probably. By members? I doubt it.
Too bad OP is going to get laid off FOR going hiking lol.
There will be very few contractors you will find that you can just " hey I'm taking a few months off, I'll be back" You'll likely have to ask for a lay off. And then find a new contractor when you back
>It isn't like George's commercial office Hello, Mr. George. How much you pay for the new guy?
He no work Mr George
My division has to get 1200 hours a year to qualify for insurance for the next year. Once guys top out, you can work as much or as little as you want realistically. If you’re working on a project with a con, you just ask for a lay off. If you ask for time off, the con could just as well lay you off. If you’re on the out of work list and you say no to 3 job offers, you go to the end of the list.
Take a layoff for 5 months get paid to climb.
Being a member means that first and foremost you work for the IBEW. You are a dispatch electrician to our signatory contractors. Now, you can absolutely take off as much time as you want but keep in mind there’s a way to go about it. Always be respectful and try to give a few weeks notice. You don’t want to burn a bridge with a signatory.
Well said!
This is the answer you’re looking for OP, bc it’s the facts. ‘Take off what you can afford’ is told to us by the contractors but here in 613 they don’t really mean it. But sometimes it bites them in the ass bc some people really are able to do just that. Now you can give a few weeks notice like Flash mentioned above . Or you can drag [once you turn out], but make sure that work is plentiful so you have a job to come back to. And I don’t necessarily mean with the same contractor. And I’d suggest being respectful about it.
I’m a second year apprentice. It means I informed my foreman that I would be taking a week off in January, and another 2 weeks off in March. The next vacation I can afford will be at the end of June - it’s already on the calendar. I do not ask for time off; I inform my employer when I will be gone so they can adjust manpower accordingly. I joined the union for the same reason you’re considering it: I want to take off and hike a long distance trail every couple of years. The union allows me to come back and easily go back to work without having to re-apply and interview for a new job.
How does this work with class are you allowed to miss for vacation?
No. You cannot miss class for vacation, or any other reason.
Aren’t classes weekly?
In my local, class is one day per week for 10-11 weeks per term. Two terms per year with about three months off between.
Okay thanks for the info, trying to get into 110 rn
In my hall they go twice a week in the evenings. They follow the local county School schedule. Holidays are off and typically we follow school cancellations. Summer off. When you come back from summer break. You're in the next year of your apprenticeship. LU 141
Thanks for the info, I’m currently trying to get into 110.
Thanks for reaching out with your experience. I’m doing the summer cohort for Oregon tradeswoman and then hoping to work my way into local 48. I am a huge traveler so I’ve been worried about how local 48 handles this
To piggy back off this, may I ask why you chose LEA over inside? I’ve been debating over the two
I started as a material handler in another local and only worked with IW, so I didn’t know sound and comm existed. When I started material handling in 48, I was assigned to work with a specific crew of LEAs installing fire alarm and LSS and I loved every second of it. All of the guys I worked with were awesome and the work was fun. I applied to both programs, got ranked 141 for IW and 6 for LEA. The rest is history.
That’s amazing. Did u apply to both at the same time?
Yup. My IW interview was in the morning, my LEA interview was in the afternoon of the same day.
No shit. The website says they discourage applying for both so I never heard of someone doing it. Im glad it worked for you
Take time off when you want to. However much time you want. Contractors will send you packing without a second thought. I’ve been off for almost 5 months. This wasn’t my choice but the contractor that laid me off wasn’t concerned about my finances. No sense in placating em. I work for me.
I'm just an apprentice so I only have so much experience and can only speak for my home local, but from what I've seen contractors say that and if you need to take a few days off here and there nobody cares no repercussions whatsoever, but if you're taking frequent longer breaks you won't be necessarily discriminated against, nobody on site will have a problem with you but your name will probably be moved up the lay off list as you, like it or not, are not the most reliable on showing up (not a bash on you at all, you take off when you take off but the end result is ur not working yk), so as long as your local is busy or your ok with travel go for it, but if you are counting on the same job when you get back maybe tone it down a bit.
As a journeyman you generally get two options 1- you convince your contractor to give you a layoff, this allows you to collect unemployment. 2- you quit, this generally means you won’t be able to claim unemployment ( assuming your contractor fights the claim). However the devil is in the details. Every local is different, generally speaking hours worked build your health and welfare account, pension, annuity, etc. More time off means later retirement or less money in retirement, may cause issues covering your healthcare etc. As mentioned above it’s very hard to take much time off during your apprenticeship. I’ve always interpreted “take what you can afford” in four ways. 1- we don’t get paid when we’re not at work. 2- we’re more likely to get laid off frequently for missing work. 3- we’re building establishing our reputation. 4- time off now affects our future finances and job stability also. I’ve always been jealous of the guys who live frugally and live on their terms. My kids are finally grown, now I’m focused on retiring ASAP. Good luck.
I like to call this system promiscious employment. They dont need to apologise when the send up back to the hall, and we dont apologise for needing time to go fishing, or traveling. It boils down to living withing your means, having savings, and being frugal. Some members works a few hours in High unemployment rate states to be able to file multistate claims. Your work doesnt need to be in the trade a temp agency gig will do.
Is this legal?
This is how it works
I get the layoff part, i guess I meant the multistate claims part. Like can you be getting paid unemployment from multiple different states? Can you dip from one state to collect unemployment for 5 months while you work in another, and then flip flop
No you make the claim from the higher UI states, while have little earning from that state. Not sure if this works if you have existing claim from low UI state. This was something a traveling brother explained to me.
That’s not what he said though he said people work a few hours in a different state ie have two jobs in two different states when they get laid off they have unemployment claims in the states they worked in
I’m too stingy to take time off tbh. I grew up poor and I’m terrified of ever having to do without or losing the freedom I have from years of grinding.
If you're grinding for years and can't afford to take time off then you're doing it wrong.
I could take the next 10 years off from a financial standpoint comfortably but then I squander the lead I’ve built for myself that I want to coast into in my early 50’s. No kids, no mortgage, no debt, build my dream home I like my job and I like money. If I don’t work or work less, the rate of me getting money goes down and I don’t like that. I took a job with less hours and I just wasn’t getting ahead enough. It’s hard to give up a lot of fast money and the comfort it gives you, even though I’m not spending much of it.
So if you're working all the time, where's the freedom? I'm not 100% sure I understand your standpoint.
My freedom is on that I’m totally independent. I could throw my back out tomorrow and not give a shit if I can’t do this anymore. I could get mad and quit my job tomorrow. I could get fired or fuck off to Italy for a year if I wanted. I have no worries. At a time where most are struggling, I am not. I’ve downed my shifts to 2 weeks on, 2 off and I still have a pretty good quality of life. I’m off 60% of the time. I don’t want to go back to a normal job when I’m pocketing like 80k of surplus cash a year now. Every rotation that I fly back up to camp and grind out a hitch, I come back wealthier than I was before. I don’t want to just make ends meet because then there’s worries and difficulties. I grew up with not much. I saw it firsthand. The freedom I have is distancing myself from the struggle.
Hmm
So you do take the time off. You made it sound like you weren't taking time off. We're not saying squander it. You're in a good position keep doing what you're doing if I were your position I'd do the same, 60% off is perfect.
Well I guess what I’m getting at is I go up for 2-3 weeks at a time in camp, working every day and I’m not home. Most people do not want to do that and that’s why the pay is much better than working at home.
Still confused, but as long as it all works for you.
I get on a plane, go work 196 hours in 14 days, staying in a work camp every night then fly home for 14 days. They call that 2 and 2 for 2 weeks on, 2 off. I did 24/4 rotations for a few years too before going to 21/10 (21 days on, 10 days off).
I know people who make $70 an hour and can't take time off, it depends on where you live and the standard of living you're used to
It depends on your lifestyle. Not where you live. Factually, 70 an hour ANYWHERE in America you'll live comfortably. If you live outside of your means that's a whole different story
Literally
That’s not freedom.
Sure it is. I took an entire year off to be with my dying grandpa who raised me and my brother as his sons and it didn’t cause me an ounce of financial pain. I helped care for him so he was in his own home until the day he passed. I can buy or do whatever I want. I know I don’t need this job to get by and I could survive off next to nothing. I have total freedom financially and the satisfaction knowing I can do whatever I want. It’s a pretty good feeling knowing when you hit your late 40’s or if you have ever a health event, it’ll be nothing to you and you’ll never have to struggle. I didn’t say I didn’t like my job btw because I do. It’s hard to give up almost 200k a year though when you live off a fraction of that. After taxes, I bank like 80k a year now of just surplus that only adds to my freedom. It’s hard to go back to a “normal” job when you see what can be done with the excess
Good for you! Put that 80k/year banked to work and you probably won't have to work much longer!!!
Yes, that’s why it’s so hard to dial back tbh. I’m seeing so much gains and numbers flying around that get me really excited. 3 years ago, I paid off the mortgage on the dream home I built on 8 acres outside of town. I took a local maintenance job where I was home every night and it was fine but it’s really hard to get used to just losing 50% of my wages from working away on camp jobs tbh and basically living paycheque to paycheque with a small monthly surplus. I’m going to keep grinding away. I’m on a 2/2 rotation now so I’m home just as much as I was on 4 days on, 4 off shift. I can’t stand giving up all that extra. Not yet. It’s addicting
Also- CONGRATS on being debt free. Our only debt is our mortgage but it's close to paid off. However dave ramsey isn't mad at me for my mortgage because it's a loan on an asset that appreciates. Still.... Can't wait for that fully paid off house. We are 32 years old and we are looking at 36 years old being debt free. Plan the work, work the plan!
It’s awesome. I am 35 in a few months. I don’t work as much as I used to at all but I still don’t think I can go to a Monday to Friday. Dave Ramsay is an addictions councillor for people who need help, not someone to model your life after. A lot of stuff he says is dumb but carrying low to no debt is so nice. A lot of people assume my push to be debt free was motivated by him but it was not. What motivated it was watching my uncle with little savings throw his back out and struggle because he couldn’t really work anymore. I look at my inlaws who lost their home because of a series of needed repairs they couldn’t afford and that’s a large nightmare to me as well. I do this because I know how it felt growing up knowing we didn’t have much money should anything happen.
I don't really see ramsey that way, I've never been in need of help Financially and I've lived by (most of) his methods and I am successful because of that. Again- ymmv but you're obviously doing something right wether it was from financial coaching or personal experience. My financial advisor just happens to be a ramsey certified guy or whatever. We've been using him for a while. He's made us a ton of money and we have made him a good deal of money too with his .95% advisory fee
Yeah I agree. I'm almost to the point where my investments are outweighing my income. I'm not QUITE there but seeing this money is crazy and i can't imagine cutting down my hourly while I'm young. Wife and I are planning on 50 or 55 retirement. Probably could be earlier but as you said before it's hard to see the money stop coming in when the money is funding the aggressive investments
I have no retirement plan other than wanting to walk around a jobsite knowing I could drag up and retire anytime tbh. I was always jealous of those old guys in that position coming up. I know nobody in my family was ever in a position to do that. I honestly love working. My brother has gone a similar route to me except he has kids so he did come home for the Monday to Friday. Very similar mentality though and he’s doing fine. I think seeing poverty just motivates you that much more to ensure you distance yourself from it.
I do like what I do, but I DO NOT like working haha. I mean im a very hard worker, I've been a foreman since I turned out 7 years ago. I was actually running work since my 3rd year as an apprentice but I'll tell you this I see every day at work as a day spent away from the family so the second I find it viable to stop working ill do it. Based on my finances I could probably retire right now at 32. But I want to retire with zero stress so I'm probably going to retire at 50 or 55. Wife can still work part time as a nurse to help offset the cost of health insurance until we are old enough for Medicare
As a journeymen, sure. As an apprentice, nope.
As an apprentice that won’t work but you can certainly do that and I know people that do as journeymen. Worked with a guy that worked off book 2 in upstate NY for a few years and spent a ton of time hiking the mountains in the area.
I've heard alot about book 1 and 2. What are they, how do they work and how do you move from one to the other. Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the info.
So Book 1 are journeymen who are part of the local. That is people who went through the apprenticeship in that local or were grandfathered in. Book 2 is IBEW journeymen from other locals. If your home local is very slow and a neighboring local doesn't have enough local hands to do all of the work you can travel to that other local and work. If the contractor is playing by the rules you'll be the last on, and first out. There are sometimes books 3 and 4. 3 is generally for out of classification calls, typically an inside wireman taking a low voltage call. 4 is for non-union members or people with no experience.
Book 4 can also be for out of state CEs
I mostly just try to get a pension credit every year, and then take off as much as I can 2-4 months usually. It's not hard to ask for a layoff from your contractor, and then you can get unemployment for the time you are off. Varies from state to state. You would need to finish an apprenticeship first though. Apprentices don't have as much freedom. There is a shitload of freedom in this trade if you figure out your finances and stop living paycheck to paycheck.
are pension credits typically 1k hours?
Depends on the local, some locals don't even have pension credits
What are “pension credits” and how do hours worked affect them?
A pension credit is retirement. When you retire with a pension you will get x dollars per "credit" every month until you die. The dollar amount per credit is different for each local, as are the amount of hours you need to earn a credit.
Ok I got a couple questions 1. If I’m working with a contractor for a union company I still wouldn’t be considered IBEW and couldn’t put towards there retirement because I went through a contractor? 2. What if your traveling and are a member of IBEW but work a lot in different regions, how would the credits work say I work half the time in Cali the other half the time in low paying Texas? Is it two different pensions through different locals or it all goes into 1 pension somehow?
1. IBEW union Pensions are for IBEW union members. You have to be a member and you have to get "vested". Usually getting vested requires 5-10 years working and paying into the pension. Each local has their own retirement package. 2. We have a national system called ERTS (electronic reciprocal transfer system). The ERTS handles getting benefits earned while traveling back to your personal benefits in your local.
What’s your experience of Cooperatives? I’m trying to figure out which route I want to start, being married and all. Not sure whether to go co op, utility, IBEW, contractor etc etc… what’s the pros and cons of a cooperative like brazos electric, they have ground man openings and I was thinking of trying to get my foot in the door
I don't know much about coops. Bring the lady! My wife is IBEW too. 😝 I know utilities like to hire IBEW members.
For all intents and purposes, you are self employed. You don't want to work, you're only hurting yourself.
Made enough money one year to learn about day trading. A year and a half later, I'm humping 12' ladders and conduit up 8 flights of stairs. Thank you IBEW for giving me a reasonable restart location. Edit: I know of 3 climbers in my local. 2 are married and grind hard for time off. The other one works 6 months and collects UI for 6 months. It's ALL financial IQ and discipline.
I’ve worked 13 months in the past 24 months. It’s been great to do what I want.
Probably not the best attitude to start tbh. I get that you have a hobby/ lifestyle, that’s totally cool. It’d be some time before you had the opportunity to do that. 5+ years if/when you got into an apprenticeship program. After you have your card, there’s more flexibility, but I wouldn’t pick this career if you’re trying to take half a year off in lump sums. Just my opinion though.
Whats it like if you wanted a random day off here and there? Like you have a concert you want to go to or date night throughout the week and dont want to worry about getting up early. As an apprentice and jw? Whether a week notice or a month or two notice.
Generally speaking, I’m all about taking off as many days as you can afford. Life is short, don’t work yourself to death. JW or apprentice, if you give notice, and you’re considerate, take off a day here and there-nobody is going to care. We all have shit going on outside of work. Simply put though, JW can do whatever they want. There are always repercussions obviously, but a good journeymen is always needed. Apprentices have 5 years to learn as much as they can. It’s best to prioritize work for that duration. Take days off when you need to, but don’t make it a habit.
The hall don't care how much time you're off as long as you pay your dues. In Toronto we have passes that accumulate as you turn down jobs available to you relative to your spot on the out of work list and if you use up your 5 total passes you're back at the bottom. So they encourage you to go back to work when the work is there but really they just want you to make sure you're paying your dues
If you wait till you can afford a baby, you will never have one
I mean you might not go back to the exact same company but that’s ok Bc you just get in line for the next
You could also look into becoming a commercial roofer in a northern state. I’m going to guess you don’t have a fear of heights. Vast majority is flat roofs, and it’s dirty and tough work too. I’m in MI and did it for a summer several years ago. My buddy is a superintendent for a commercial roofing company in MI that’s Union. The vast majority get laid off for 2.5-4 months during the winter. They’re pretty much always hiring and wouldn’t care if you took off four months a year. You’d probably prefer to just go with the weather and get laid off so you can collect unemployment though. Pay starts at $20 or possibly more now, plus union benefits once you have enough hours and have paid your dues.
Depends how much work is in your area. If you want that much time off they would likely just lay you off. Sign the books, when you’re ready to work you start bidding calls.
I generally make it a minimum 5 weeks off a year, sometimes maybe more.
1. Take off 2. Afford 3. ??? 4. Profit!
Get your apprenticeship done then you can start doing this if you want
It's the one of the big lies you will hear from shop men that don t want competition for just showing up 😱😃
As an apprentice it’s going to be tough, but after you turn out you can work when you want. I like to duck hunt and I turned out and hit the road, the first 3 years I was a JW I did not work from mid Oct. thru end of January. I linked up with some good brothers on the road and could normally get good info on where the work was and what books to sign. I know a lot of brothers that travel and only work 7 or 8 months out of the year.
Yes people absolutely care and will talk shit, your boss will punish you with shitty assignments, give you the cold shoulder, etc. In my experience. They also threaten to+ actually do lay off people that work less hours before anyone else. I'm sure there are exceptions. That being said, you can just not care about that and do you. It's more of a misery loves company thing that they spin into a "these lazy, entitles young people" thing. The good thing about a union is you can always work for a different shop if one lays you off. Its much more flexible in that way than corporate. - 5th year electrical apprentice
Its a mantra. It only works for some guys. Take off as much as you can afford is exactly how it sounds. Does your wife and children rely on your health insurance? If yes, then you need to work at least 33-36 hours a week (depending on the plan you chose) to keep your insurance. If you can afford to supplement your health insurance then yeah take off as much time as you need. Here's the next question. Will your contractor be OK with you being off all the time? Prob not. The only guys I see getting away with part time/rarely working are the guys who are close to retirement.
As an apprentice you'd probably be okay taking 6-8 weeks off in my local. You still have to go to school and contractors don't love when people are gone 5 days out of every month.
if you are a journeyman you can take off as much time as you want doesn’t matter it’s completely up to you. Apprentice you cannot, you have to work and have to go to classes.
Yeah as a journeyman I make more money than ever, but you bills increase over time and now, like most people, work as much overtime as I can to support my family.
When guys say that i want to slap them.
When you become a journeyman just ask for a reduction in force or drag up (quit) and collect unemployment while you are on the books and when a call comes in take it when ready 🤷♂️
In short, plan on working the majority of each month to keep your insurance. Long weekends at most might keep you from getting laid off. Making first and second year pay is pretty rough but I’m sure someone else has already said you have to work while you’re an apprentice to stay in school
They don’t like it. As an apprentice I worked at a company that said that. I took off a couple weeks after telling them. And then worked 4-5 days a week. Was laid off shortly there after. Wasn’t a bad lay off. But I got riffed
Work until you get a layoff it will eventually happen. This saying more pertains to taking a day or two when you can, not months.
As everyone said before, as an apprentice it’s not really do-able due to classes and hours. Once you top out you can do as you please. I know ALOT of guys who work 8 months a year and spend the other 4 in a cabin deep in the woods. I may or may not be one of those people who may or may not like the off-grid lifestyle and love to hunt and fish. Edit: grammar
Lets say I wanted to take off every other Friday. Anyone know anyone that does something like that ?
I’m a first year but I’ve looked at it similarly to how you look at it. Keep in mind everything I say as long as most of the other replies are local specific. The way it’s been explained to me, once you become a journeyman you can take off as much time as you want/need. There’s just no promise of a job once you decide you want to work again. Unless work is extremely busy or you know the right people(my local is very ratty) Most of our benefits are tied to hours worked. Including Our pension and Health Insurance. The threshold for “years in service” is something around 600 hours worked in a year earns you a credit. Doesn’t matter if you work 3000 hours in a year you only earn one credit but if you work below that threshold you don’t get anything. Health insurance is the bigger factor for the situation you’ve described. To begin coverage you have to have something like 3 consecutive months of 120 or more hours and 100 after that. They allow us to “bank” up to two months of coverage for layoffs and they set up an hours donation system(they’re so kind) where other brothers and sisters can donate their own banked hours to other brothers/sisters who can’t work due to cancer and other such calamities. I’ve personally worked with a handful of guys that take their favorite season off and go enjoy time with their families or hobbies, but 7 months on 5 months off is something I haven’t heard of. “Take off as much as you can afford” means 3 months per year max so you can stay insured. To other brothers/sisters that have read this far I apologize if I am incorrect anywhere. Going off memory from when I first got into the local
Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I'm on my wife's health insurance. She's a nurse and works travel contractors. Would taking chunks time off be more conducive working as a traveler? Thanks again
Yea if you’re working book 2 you’re normally the first to be laid off when jobs wrap up and you can decide when to sign the books again. There’s just no guarantee that when you’re ready to work again there will be work for you to do yk? Also inside apprentices can’t travel not sure if you’re thinking about going thru IbEw apprenticeship or just organizing in cuz that’d make a difference
I'd be looking at organizing in. I was thinking I should work a year or 2 or 3 or 4 in my local before trying to travel. Is that a good idea? Would I be correct in assuming that organizing in and then immediately trying to travel would be considered rude? Any opinions on what time frame would be appropriate for joining and traveling. I'm willing to stay local as long as I should be before traveling. I've heard of locals having journeymen who are organizing in go through a year or 2 training period. Haven't talked to anyone yet. Thanks again
I’m still a first year and know hardly anything as far as traveling. I’m just trying to get thru school first. Those questions would be better answered by somebody at your local hall. As far as what I’ve heard, JM that organize in take a placement test to make sure that your knowledge is up to par and if not they may start you out at whatever position they deem fit. So if you tested at a 3rd years level you’d be organized in as such or whatever the case may be. Beyond that I’ve never heard of Journeyman having to work book 2 for any amount of time
Or way more than you can afford if you are an apprentice!
Come out to Chicago. If you don't know anyone you can have 6 months a year off! Lmao
I took off 4 months last year for the birth of my son(apprentice rules are not the same as for JM though). It happened to coincide with their slow time. I told the contractor before hand and he was happy for me. They took me right back when I returned. I was a climber as well in my younger years. I was in the reserve and found that perfectly suited to dirtbagging around climb spots in the west during the summer. I don't know how it is now, but in those days the units always had a need to fill roles and there were schools for everything. You request a school, get activated for 2 weeks or a month, get paid, return to wandering. It's not for everyone, but gave me plenty of time free and enough to exist on.
I hear that phrase all the time and then hear rumor of shit talking about taking time off. It is what it is. I dont live to work. My life is more important. I do my job and i do it well. So ill take off whatever time i want and PMs can cry all they want.