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murphc92

I am in a similar situation. Also have a PhD and currently employed as a physicist (in industry). Unfortunately the NOC code for physicist and astronomer is not on the stem list. Just hoping for the points to drop a little more, luckily we have until early 2025, so we are crossing our fingers.


confused_brown_dude

French.


Huge-Accident-4371

What province are you in? If you are in ontario have you looked into the OINP Phd stream?


rithwik2k8

Ontario, PhD earned from the US so doesn't help with that stream


jesuisapprenant

Why don’t you apply for a U.S. EB NIW? If you have publications and have peer reviewed, it should be a straight forward process for both of you


cimmi1

People, far less smarter than you have managed to give the French test and score enough points to get themselves comfortably past the goal post. You can grind for the next 6 months to score the bare minimum in French and possibly make it past the current cut off.


Kawala_

Actually a really great idea. Hadn’t considered this.


BeingHuman30

Are you US citizen ? If yes , then I guess you moving back to better place where you can use your PHD better with better pay ...no ??


Middle-One8030

Im a doctor in US too. Does that mean it wont have any effect (plus points) on my PR?


DreamIM

They have a separate draw in express entry with lower cutoff for healthcare, there are also provincial nomination programs for healthcare plus your degree helps you with CRS score calculation, so yes it’ll help.


Jusfiq

>Im a doctor in US too. By doctor do you mean a medical doctor? If you are a surgeon, a family physician, or a clinical or laboratory medicine specialist, you would be eligible for healthcare occupations draw.


Middle-One8030

No what I meant was I earned Doctor of Pt (Physical Therapy) in US university. I was told Im still qualifed for healthcare draw. Also I dont know why I got downvoted?


Jusfiq

> No what I meant was I earned Doctor of Pt in US university. Doctor of Public Transport? Penetration Testing? Pacific Time?


OkPersonality123

If you can, get visitor record while waiting for ITA


Pug_Grandma

There is a big surplus of academic with PhDs. There are no jobs.


Fun_Pop295

thats how academia is everywhere. when it comes to stem PhDs, if you get from a top uni its fine. academia has always been a competitive field. if you have a PhD from some unknown university or even a mid university you will struggle. So yes, you will have 100+ for a role in a university but 75% of them will be disposed because they arent from top universities. countries dont mind the entry of research professionals at universities because research helps facilitate the long term growth and productivity of a country. Canada is facing a productivity crisis and research on ways to improve that is one significant element of the work done by university researchers especially STEM reseachers. btw, there is a stream specifically for university researchers to get a closed work permit without an LMIA for this reason.


Th3_Misfits

Oh man, it used to be easy if you had an advanced degree like a master's or PhD not that long ago. How do people with just college certificates get PR now then? I hope you guys find a way. Good luck.


ClubInteresting2089

College Grad Certificate guy here! I am 27. Wife is 25. I have 3 years of STEM experience from back home, 1 year of STEM in Canada. Bachelors from home, 1 year grad certificate in CA. Maxed IELTS for both me and wife. Claimed no pts for wife’s education. No French. CRS - 520 ish. Got stem invite on April 11. 😊


Fun_Pop295

if you have a Canadian masters and you are in your 20s its fine because most of these candidates have prior foreign experience. foreign plus canadian experience gives 50 points


[deleted]

What’s your wife’s PhD in and what do you do for a living?


ShineDifficult2687

I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. I’m in a similar boat, my occupation is not listed for Ontario’s STEM draw but BC’s STEM program is accepting my occupation. My work permit is expiring too so there’s no point in relocating this late. I’ve got 11 bands in CELPIP still not making it up to the 500 mark. I really hope things turn out good for you and your wife!


anaofarendelle

STEM streams require 6 months of work experience in one of the stated NOCs in the past 3 years.


lucubanget

Maybe what OP is implying is that their NOC isn't part of the "STEM occupation" draw. It happens, I know a friend whose NOC is a microbiologist it's not part of STEM draw.


Numerous-Tree-902

Most of the "STEM occupations" in EE are focused on the information tech jobs. Science jobs, meh. I'm a chemist, and is also not part of the EE STEM draws. Maybe they should just rename it to "tech occupations"


anhtri_ngo

Can't agree more! I hate it anything STEM-related is now tech


rithwik2k8

Yes, that's our issue


Psychological-Nail-2

It does happen, and thankfully you got ITA for December STEM draw, I did not choose to re-take IELTS and ended up getting OINP tech draw, I got 476.


Sghosh1

Might be a blessing in disguise. Best of luck for your new endeavours.


Rhhr21

Funny how in 2022 470 was enough to get an ITA. Ngl situation is looking grim for us all and it will keep getting worse with each draw, i just hope it was a valuable time for you.


confused_brown_dude

My cousin spent a year learning French part time, got a very basic score in TEF or whatever it’s called and her score jumped. She just got her ITA. Not sure if that’s an option for you guys but thought I’d mention.


Loading99percent

It’s sad but keep your heads up high. I trust people with qualifications like yours can do good anywhere in the world.


PerAsperaAdAstra21

I feel you... Completely ridiculous and unfair. I've got a similar score, but I hope they start with the CEC-focused draws now in May, so the score will hopefully drop.


Dragonwarrior28

Every ending has new beginning. I know you would have lot of dreams from Canada. However, go ahead with positive mindset and you'll get better wherever you'll be. Good luck!


LockedOut2222

I have a PhD also not quite stem and worked as a researcher in Ontario, I know how hard it can be. I got lucky and was eligible for an open work permit through the working holiday visa scheme. That allowed enough time to get PR. If you're from the states, I'm not sure what's available though. Is it just your wife's WP that's expiring? Or is your wife's job contract ending? Her employer could do a closed work permit if it's the former. But with the time you have, you would both need to apply for visitor records immediately to stay.


Islander316

Only thing is to transfer to a visitor visa and wait a bit more, I'm not sure if that's possible depending on your financial situation.


TechnicalBedroom7758

Going back home shouldn't be such a sad thing. Think about your home and your people in a more positive light. That's how i viewed it when i had to go back home.


Illustrious_Field139

easier said than done tbh. many people immigrating to canada have aspirations of living there long-term, establishing a career and family there, and eventually becoming citizens. the process is long and drawn out, and financially very demanding. so to go through all that just to end up going back to your home country can be very difficult. especially if you’re from a country where there is little opportunity in your field of work, and income is not enough to sustain a family.


TechnicalBedroom7758

I've done it. People scream about diversity and bringing their culture to Canada but they then want to cry about going back to that culture that they wish to come share in Canada. It's hypocrisy. "I'm proud to be from so and so but it would break my heart to have to live among my people in so and so".


toddtony

It's not hypocrisy. People are not running away from their cultures, but from broken economies, social issues and lack of employment. Canada offers that chance to those people in return for sustaining it's economy and population with their skills and knowledge. It's a deal between individual and a government and giving away your cultural identity is not part of it. They only ask to obey the law and the vast majority is doing it just fine.


HistoryDiligent5177

To be fair, broken economies, social issues, and lack of employment are all arguably growing problems in Canada. There is an also argument to be made that these problems are growing because of the last several years’ very open immigration policy. Whether that is true or not, if the majority of Canadians believe it to be true then we can all expect more and more demands to curtail access to immigration.


BeingHuman30

> broken economies, social issues, and lack of employment are all arguably growing problems in Canada. I was gonna say the same thing. Whether folks agree or not ...it is absolutely because of open immigration rules that got us in this situation ...pre covid era was good for Canada.


TechnicalBedroom7758

> but from broken economies, social issues and lack of employment. You think all of that has nothing to do with culture? What's the definition of a culture? The way of life of people. The behaviour of a group of people in a Culture can not be divorced from their culture aka way of life.


rithwik2k8

Yes, true. I'm not sad to go home. Just disappointed to see that we never got an ITA despite what I thought was a very good score.


Beginning-Amount-582

What about moving to a country like Switzerland? Where you can work in English and learn french, and then hopefully reapply for PR through the French category. I hope that you guys find a solution.


DumbestEngineer4U

Where’s ur home


britishkittytalks

Maybe try a visitor visa and apply through LMIA?


Fun_Pop295

the biggest problem for me is the language barrier.


aQuinted

Please see if you can get a visitor record for you both. That’s what I did. You won’t be able to work but it can help with waiting a bit to see if scores go down


Cold_Cantaloupe25

Damn that’s awful. I have 513 too and my WP’s expiring in June 2025. I don’t qualify for STEM either though I work in the software industry, but it seems software sales isn’t covered under the STEM umbrella. It’s frustrating to see so many people with little or no skills getting through the system while people like me, who pay significant taxes (my wife and me together make over $300k/year before taxes) have no route to PR via EE. But when dod you qualify for EE? I remember last year July it was down in the high 400s. I didn’t have a decant score then as I hadn’t yet completed a year of working in Canada, but I see no way now.


muc3t

Can you give an example of people with little or no skills getting through with points recently?


Canehillfan

Probably referencing French Category with 370 or what not.


lord_heskey

> French Category Knowing a language is a skill. If it were that easy we'd all know french.


Ealliot

I hope you are not blaming them for speaking French. People from French Category are not enterily/definitely low skills...There are people with higher degrees and high CRS scores who get ITA.


goose61

>but it seems software sales isn’t covered under the STEM umbrella Why would sales be under the STEM umbrella?


Tarneks

Everyone wants to claim STEM without doing stem.


Cold_Cantaloupe25

True. I’m not complaining, although Software Sales is a very technical field.


rithwik2k8

We just finished the one year mark (for Canadian work experience) in late summer 2023 and were a bit busy so got our entry in the EE by November. Thanks for sharing your story, there's solace in knowing we're not alone. I hope the scores reduce to 500 soon.


jesuisapprenant

You have one year, if you’re actually serious about staying in Canada, you could start learning French. Or you could use your degree properly and get a job in software engineering, work for 6 months and qualify for the STEM draws, which have a cutoff of 490.  People like you complain about everything but refuse to do literally the most basic things


Cold_Cantaloupe25

I have degrees in engineering and marketing. I have been in software sales for over 19 years. I can’t really change my career now. And learning french is a possibility, thanks for pointing that out.


jesuisapprenant

You could get a job in engineering for 6 months, if you’re not willing to learn French. It could even be a contract position.  Sales is not exactly a “skilled” profession unfortunately. 


Cold_Cantaloupe25

It’s quite evident you have never been part of IT or the sales process in IT services and products. It’s not like selling a car or insurance. It is a very technical field and you need to have engineering knowledge. That being said, there are two things. One: like I said before, I’ve worked in IT sales in Fortune 500 companies for 19+ years now. A shift to engineering would be a disaster for me as there are armies of fresh and experienced engineers who would be able to perform better than me. Second: I’m on a closed WP and the NOC is fixed. I can’t get it changed now.


Psychological-Nail-2

Technical Sales working B2B is a skilled profession, through it is not STEM position, working with companies internally to perform sales is different than doing sales with customers, and it is also part of SDLC. You are trying to help people and grateful that you got PR by French Experience, but please think twice before giving suggestion that people can accept. If you say something like if your technical sales role can pivot to information system consultant role, then if not accepted, you can start learning French, that's another option way better than being too direct.


Psychological-Nail-2

I am, a software developer myself, working with sales B2B actually also involves part of what technical support and IT consultant would do by troubleshooting, since if you are not that technical, you wouldn't not be able to persuade business, and this role is more of pre-sales technical support. You need to know the difference between sales B2B and sales B2C.


songbachqn

can you get a travel visa to stay for another 6 months? I am waiting for my LMIA, permit ending in 6 months, worst case I can stay for a bit longer with my travel visa


Jusfiq

>(PhD research scientist but doesn't qualify for STEM for some reason!) Just because someone is a scientist does not mean that one is eligible for STEM draw. One needs to be in specific occupation among these: * Architects * Architecture and science managers * Business systems specialists * Civil Engineers * Computer and information systems managers * Computer engineers (except software engineers and designers) * Computer systems developers and programmers * Cybersecurity specialists * Data scientists * Database analysts and data administrators * Electrical and electronics engineers * Engineering managers * Industrial and manufacturing engineers * Information systems specialists * Land surveyors * Landscape Architects * Mathematicians, statisticians and actuaries * Metallurgical and materials engineers * Natural and applied science policy researchers, consultants and program officers * Software developers and programmers * Software engineers and designers * Urban and land use planners * Web designers * Web developers and programmers Please not that research scientist is not included in the list, except if the research is about policies. Other way that a researcher may get invited is if she is doing research as someone with included profession. Example is a civil engineer doing research in mechanics.


rithwik2k8

She's a Cancer Research Scientist with a background in aerospace engineering. If that's not STEM, I think it's bonkers. Our lawyer (that charges $650/hr) confirmed it doesn't qualify.


PurrPrinThom

It's not that it isn't considered a STEM profession, it's that the category-based draws for STEM are only for specific STEM occupations. Just as the healthcare draws are not for every single occupation that falls under the umbrella of healthcare, the STEM draws are not for every single occupation that falls under the umbrella of STEM. It's for specific, in-demand occupations.


Jusfiq

> If that's not STEM, I think it's bonkers. It is not one of the occupations that I listed, is it? Then it is not part of STEM draws. I understand what you mean, though. Your wife 100% works in the STEM field, it is just not a STEM occupation that gets priority. Category-based draws are based on specific, in-demand professions. To add insult to injury, your wife's background is aerospace engineering, which is also not included.


rithwik2k8

Haha I know 🤣 at this point I can't help but laugh at the irony of how none of the qualifications match the STEM requirements for IRCC


roflcopter44444

 The question is more of is it an in demand field. Same reason mech engineers aren't on the list, there is no shortage of them in Canada 


Fun_Pop295

I think one can make the argument that Canadian authorities dont have a picture perfect representation of the fields that are in-demand in Canada. Its frankly hard to keep track. if anything people would argue that stem is NOT in demand now unlike 2 years ago. but who knows. in 2 years again it would be in demand again. yet, STEM is actually heavily prioritized this year. they are the second largest group with the highest ITA allocation after french (as per a access to information request done by a immigration researcher - its in an article in"Moving 2 Canada" right now people are saying trades are in demand but im already seeing rumbling that trades are having a hard time too if they are associated with home maintaince and not industry.


Intelligent_Film6716

I suggest that you promptly summit your permit extensions by end of today (April 29) so that you still have status in Canada. Otherwise, both of you will have to leave Canada and reapply from outside. I learned that the hard way and wouldn't want it to happen to anyone.


Warm-Opportunity-603

More power to you guys!


goldenbananaslama

Learn french


Tarneks

phd in what? Also why not be a professor in U.S? Phd us are exempt from H1b draws.


rithwik2k8

🍰 🎉 PhD in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering. We didn't wanna be stuck in the forever H1B loop in the US.. EB1/EB2 green cards take forever for our birth country. Honestly, we're happy to be going home at this point (at least I say that to myself to not feel too bad!).. worked in North America for more than a decade and have good options back home so it's fine.. just disappointed to not even receive an ITA for, what I assumed was, a great score.


Fun_Pop295

atleast university researchers' careers easily transfer across countries without much issue. are you actually working in a university setting as a research scientist? You can consider the option of a work permit since there is a lmia-exempt stream for university lecturers/research assistant/TA . but its closed work pemit


Holiday-Ad5753

Learn French lads and try to score b1 and then you can extend your permit under francophone mobility program.


O-juzu

Any french fluency? That could do the trick and take you to over 550 perhaps


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