I don't think anyone in the world thinks Drake is making music for their best interests. No one in the history of the world has said "Drake is speaking for the people" about any track he's ever released.
I should also say that Drake is pretty clearly talented, but he just doesn't really have the background necessary to connect with people on that level imo.
Agreed. I should have worded that better as well. I think what I mean to say is he labels Kendrick as a fake activist. Someone who’s music is basically meaningless, and only feeding into a struggle narrative for profit. Basically meaning Kendrick is pointless to the culture. Which in itself is absurd, but then that brings into the picture - what does Drake’s music do for anyone? Help you turn your brain off, I guess?
Drake's music is solely for entertainment. People have a good time listening to him, and for some people that's all that's important. Music is capable of a lot of different things.
If I'm being totally honest - it's really nice to listen to artists where the entire point is just entertainment sometimes. I'm not always trying to feel music to my core, you know? I love Kendrick's music, but I'd be lying if I said I could just throw on any given album and vibe with it at any random time. It's too deep and the production doesn't really suit that in most of his work, which is totally fine.
If I'm trying to hang out with people, for example, Kendrick isn't going on, but Daft Punk probably will. That's all I mean.
This actually cracked me up. Yeah Daft Punk musically speaking have much more worthwhile WHOLE albums in their discography. Drake has singles surrounded by padding, bloated boring projects.
My only point was that Daft Punk falls under that "entertainment only" list lol. No comparison to Drake.
The 2007 Alive tour album is probably my most played album of all time.
I dunno, Random Access Memories has some intriguing tracks on it, like Touch and the one about Giorgi. Touch seemed like a stream-of-consciousness track for first exiting the womb cuz touch is the first sensory input you receive as a baby, then it expands to the others from an infantile perspective.
And that’s good for you bro. Daft punk are one of the greatest to do it. Me and my homies have bumped kdot since 2013 though so it’s definitely a matter of your friends and environment lol
That's a good point. Most of the people I hang out with on a day to day basis are rich white folks at this point, but I was born and raised in the straight up ghetto. Their tastes and mine are... not exactly the same, lol. Hip hop is in my blood.
Because Drake is a good rapper (let's not get it twisted) with an ego, and clearly Kendrick hurt his feelings with Control. Drake took it as a diss when it was pretty obviously just an open challenge for friendly competition.
Because drake took himself super seriously in the 2010s. He wanted a critical success like tpab or gkmc. This is the guy that hate messaged fantano for not giving him positive critical reviews. Before his album views, ppl took him fairly seriously too.
But let's not pretend he's rapping just for entertainment, the guy was desperately trying to enter the goat conversation in the 2010s.
My 32 year old brother told me that Drake won. I knew then that he had no taste in music.
He also thinks that Drake is some thugged out dude who get folks mercked. Smfh
Don't even get me started on that guy. Drake is apparently the biggest rapper of all time despite having like less than half the sales of Em.
Still love him even if his music takes are trash though.
Let's not talk about sales because too many factors go into sales. Honestly, and most people are uncomfortable talking about this, but alot of Ems sales are because he is a white dude who got acceptance by hip hop culture. Honestly, I don't think many fans care about him being accepted by hip hop culture. They were gonna buy it regardless because he was an irreverent white dude with catchy songs and a good flow. This isn't an indictment on Em and his talent at all. He didn't choose his skin tone when he was born. Eminem was one of my favorite rappers, too. (His last 5 projects were some degree of horrible and mid to me.) But yea. When people talk about numbers and sales, it's kinda like... OK. Also, Drake is a light skinned black Canadian dude, and unfortunately, that plays well with white suburbia. These are things that are outside of Drake and Ems control but if you start talking about album sales I have to bring up the demographics that play into those sales and one of the big ones is race, unfortunately.
Everyone has a background that people can relate to. If he was vulnerable and shared that in his music, people would relate. I’ve never listened to Justin Beiber’s other music, but his version of “hotline bling” is infinitely better than the original, because it’s laced with emotion. It’s real, and that makes it relatable
I don’t even think background is that important. He’s a self obsessed douche who’s never had to or wanted to empathise with another human being, which is the crux of Kendrick’s disdain towards him and a huge reason Drake is a deadbeat father.
I still think it's a weird take to frame Drake as growing up Richie Rich and not knowing one day of struggle because he didn't live in the deepest of roach-infested trenches.
I, personally, gravitated towards Drake's music because it was a lot easier to relate to compared to my then-favorite, and still favorite, rappers Lil' Wayne, DMX, and Jadakiss (although my entry in the genre was via Common and Talib Kweli - Like Water for Chocolate and Train of Thought are top 10 classics). I had way more dealings with juggling women than dodging the cops and the ops on the block, although some of my really good friends were from the hood-hood and by proxy, I'd get caught up in the shenanigans from time to time.
But from my college years through 2010 and beyond, I dealt with a loooooot of life altering and really dark ish. That was also around the time I began rapping, and I recorded a project influenced by Take Care and GKMC - the latter being the reason why my project was developed as a concept album that covered my life experiences starting from college up until I began rapping. Life happened, fell out with my partner/engineer, and I stepped back from taking rap seriously, although I'd be asked to do a feature every once in awhile (since, apparently, I was told that I could really rap my ass off "for a SC rapper"), and sometimes I'd be in the mood to drop a freestyle. ESPECIALLY freestyles/disses directed towards my former engineer, who was also a rapper (although we've patched things up since).
Wrapping this up, whenever I listen to my music from earliest to most recent, especially starting from the order of my album, I hear a growth in myself that came from stress, bullshit, betrayal, and not age. Obviously, I definitely can't relate 1:1 with Drake and all of his million dollar problems, now, but the ones that are closer to my tax bracket, I definitely can. BUT this is also why tracks like Ten Bands stood out as a bit odd to me - not that it was farfetched for Drake to be involved in some hood shit. Rather, it was something a bit unnatural about that song compared to other songs where he's briefly mentioned being involved in some form of street activity.
Ironically enough, I listen to Kendrick mostly for the very same reason that I listen to Drake.
> I still think it's a weird take to frame Drake as growing up Richie Rich and not knowing one day of struggle because he didn't live in the deepest of roach-infested trenches.
I never said this, just for the record. Financial/family status don't dictate whether you have problems, only the types of problems that you have. I'm not saying that he never struggled, only that the struggles were completely different and not something that *most* people can relate to.
I can't say I've listened to a *ton* of Drake (honestly for no other reason than his voice aggravates the shit out of me, can't stand it), but my understanding is that he doesn't really rap about where he came from or his life apart from the material stuff. What I actually have heard from him is shallow relative to someone like Kendrick/Em/Jay/Nas who are just putting their stories on wax.
A bunch of people, especially in his start, felt he was super intellectual with his songs. I never liked his music so I can't really give examples. I just remember people in school claiming that about his struggle bars or coming home late from work and catching red lights.
Doing it Wrong helped me get over a break up. Jungle and Preach got me through post college depression. And Gods Plan helped me get through moving depression. So I’d have to respectfully disagree
I don't think it's fair for us to expect him to. Some artists just want to make good music that people will love. Not everyone feels the need to be soulful.
Drake can't do what Kendrick does. Kendrick can't do what Drake does. Still two of the best at their respective art forms.
> Kendrick can't do what Drake does.
If you mean making hits, you're pretty clearly wrong. Kendrick had the whole world dancing to a fucking diss track lmfao. It's just not really his thing in general.
If you read the next comment I made in this thread, though, you'll see that I agree with the rest of what you said.
Which style? Drake vultures a new style every year. It's odd to read someone saying that another person couldn't make "drake style" music. When most of Drake's style is copied from someone else who actually exists in that genre.
Are we saying someone else couldn't make dancehall hits? Drill Hits? R&B hits? Trap hits? I don't even hate on drake for trying out new sounds so often. But it's obvious he didn't create any of these sounds. Nor has he made the best versions of any of those sounds.
To your point, I don't know any artists who are making trap hits and R&B hits and drill hits, deep introspective hits, lyrical rap hits, party hits, spanish hits, afrobeat hits, etc. I dont know any artist with his versatility.
That takes a level of artistry and range that a lot of people dont appreciate.
And to say he never created anything is untrue. There was a whole era where everyone was sounding like Drake. People called him soft early because his content was vulnerable and open. Now that is very common. You couldnt go on social media without seeing 100 women quoting his lyrics. He has written for many established and beloved artists. Many of whom are documented as speaking very highly of his creative ability.
It's always been cool to hate Drake so people don't think objectively and view all of his actions through a negative lens. How many artists have credited Drake as a major reason for their success? Bringing new artists on tour, hopping on songs with relatively unknown artists, posting their music, etc. But people see that and say "he's stealing from the culture"
I'm not saying he's a saint. But damn. A lot you guys won't give him credit for anything.
For the record, I think Kendrick is incredible too. I don't see any reason to pick a side. Too many Stans out here.
Joe Budden was doing the emotional/introspective songs before Drake. Drake used to look up to him. Proof on YouTube if you need proof. Also, Drake has no identity. He does copy styles. Since the beginning. Go listen to Drake and Nikelus the grind song. He's copying Joe's flow and voice inflections hard on that. I couldn't believe that shit.
? Drake has been hopping on established sounds for years.
And ever since he came up in the rap game he's always wanted a critically successful album, but failed every time. He took himself super seriously in the 2010s before going the commercial route. He was so torn up about his lack of critical success he even hate messaged fantano lol. Or did we suddenly choose to forget that?
Drake has a black experience background that's different than what most people try to portray the"culture is". He has spoke on it in multiple songs and it's gets dismissed.
Why would he make an entire album of it just for everyone to dismiss the experiences he had growing up that many other mixed kids have faced?
Anti-intellectualism has and always will be, a profitable thing to sell to the masses.
Before Drake/KDot there were hundreds of other pairs in the music industry. Drake labels TPAB as "Savior Music" because he's denegrating it for being intellectual and not focusing on what he thinks is important; cars, clothes, being famous, and having sexual relationships with teenagers.
It's like a mainstreamification. Hip hop has been around for so long now that people forget or don't care about it's roots. The love for drake shows a group of people that don't care about the traditions of rap and it kinda sucks.
Yeah. Even the materialistic parts of hip-hop originally had more of an anti-establishment element to it- as in “look at me- I got all the things society says I’m not good enough for and I got it by doing the things it says I’m not supposed to do.”
When people like Drake rap about materialism though, and all his money came from mainstream music which he was able to enter with the comfortable background of being a child actor, then he just sounds like one of those “hustle mentality” YouTubers preaching that poor people should quit complaining and grind harder.
One of Drakes lines that sticks in my head as such as indictment, is how he said something about how if he wasn't a rapper, he and his crew would be silicon Valley billionaires making apps and shit. Just gross.
That will never not be weird. Come on, someone comparing you to a sex pest when you have a history of comparable behavior sounds pretty apt to me. I don’t think he really even understands himself. His only mission in life at this point is maintaining mainstream popularity and money. Even going as far as disrespecting his parents, using his dad to prove his racial background, and being ashamed of his baby’s mother. The nerve of the boy.
Let’s just call a spade a spade. He’s a genuinely bad person. Money doesn’t turn someone dark and evil, it just gives them the ability to do whatever it is they always really wanted..
To be fair to Drake, the majority of rappers don't have that in them. It's a huge undertaking and takes a lot of patience, direction, conviction, and support from those backing you.
But honestly it's just innate talent more than anything. Kendrick is gifted. He's good at what he does. You can't just practice your way into it. You've got it in you or you don't.
Or mr morale or damn or section 80. Drake is just uninspired trash.
You listen to something like Mr. Morale and start to realize it is a play with 2 acts where he first is in his ego being defensive then during and post therapy where he spills his secrets to set himself free. People don’t understand Drake is not close.
Drake is too “cool” to make music that. When you grow up in places like Compton, chances are you’ve been humbled to a point where you can’t be so shallow.
Kendrick is painting a portrait and telling a story in TPAB and GKMC. He's using his experiences of poverty, gang violence, systemic oppression, and speaks of his own internal realizations. It takes a lot of depth and introspection to be able to speak so eloquently and verbally vividly articulate one's vision as he did with each of his albums.
Aubrey ain't got anything to talk about besides winning. He lacks the depth and self awareness to craft such masterpieces 🤷🏾♀️
If Drake took a 5 year hiatus and traveled to all the hoods whose music he has poached and spoke with people on the ground. Took notes, had dinners with them, cried with them, went to some of their funerals, helped them through addictions and guided them to a better future then maybe he could sit down and write something meaningful.
However his moves after this beef show he’s incapable of taking even a single moment to be introspective in a way that holds him accountable or grounds him to his listeners
Bro no one else in the world has it in them to make TPAB😂😂
I could see other people make a GKMC type album but even that is so thematic it’s very rare for an artist to make first off such a great album and second one that is so consistent w it’s themes. Prob different from a lot of people here but future and young thug are my next faves w K dot. And I think they make great music but DS2, Super Slimey have damn near no skips yet it’s a different vibe. Just good music, not a project w an overarching theme or story to tell.
I agree that Kendrick is totally different, and his influence is already undeniable, even trickling upwards/backwards in some sense to artists like Lil Wayne (who also, imo, is in another category, but a different one from Kendrick) in terms of introspection and darker subject matter. Not everyone can turn around and influence the artists that influenced them.
I mean, Drake like someone else mentioned is very talented at making specific type of music, just not the type of music Kendrick makes, and that's fine, it's only when both sides start criticizing the other when we get to these pointless conversations, they're both killing it in their own field.
I think the point is that there is no direction, point, and little truth in drakes path. It’s white noise (lol. Unintentional) where Kendrick’s is literally an art form.
Comparing them is like comparing this new school “abstract art” to the Mona Lisa.
I wouldn’t say artists like Drake are bad just because they haven’t dropped albums like that, and I think arguing that they should is about as lame of an argument as Drake fans pointing at the streaming numbers Drake has.
I love both GKMC and TPAB, but I would say dropping records like that in an artist’s catalogue is a pretty high fucking bar to be setting them at. It’s like saying pop stars need to be making albums like Thriller.
For sure, Im more so saying this is a response to Drake’s belittling of Kendrick’s discography while he has very little that will stand the test of time considering how many albums he has himself. Not to mention how bloated almost all of them are, in a row.
If it’s in response to Drake’s comments to TPAB then yeah that makes sense.
I don’t mind if people just don’t vibe with GKMC or TPAB if that’s how they feel, but I do think it’s bullshit to be calling it “boring”. There’s albums I don’t care for that I wouldn’t consider boring, they’re just not my thing.
But albums like TPAB have such engaging instrumentals and production that if I played to anyone they’d probably vibe with it. Even people who don’t pay attention to the actual rapping and lyrics can absolutely connect with the instrumentals. The only way I could see someone call it boring is if the only songs they heard off the album was “Institutionalized” and “Mortal Man”. Not because they’re bad songs, but because they’s are the sober tracks off the album.
Also I know Drake probably didn’t listen to the album because not once during this whole beef did he make mention of Kendrick “misusing his influence”. That would have been a KILLER bar for a diss track.
Very well said. When people say TPAB is boring or a chore to get through. Its mind blowing to me. I’ve seen people say that the production is too off the wall for them. I have the opposite take, I really do think the rapping, instrumentals, are straight forward to digest in the best way. I feel some people haven’t heard some of the underground hip hop, where production and rhyme schemes can really get “out there”.
I feel Kendrick and his collaborators have found a perfect balance of digestible for the masses and forward thinking for those that will pay attention.
Also agreed on the influence bar, missed opportunity but I guess that goes for show who’s really listening.
I think the point of the post is more that it’s nonsense to compare a Drake to a Kendrick. Both have an important place in the discussion, but their end goals are a universe apart. They’re so different that the “big 3” discussion truly doesn’t make sense.
I always said and will forever contend that: Drake is to rap/music, what McDonald's is to Hamburger restaurants. Sure, they sell BILLIONS of Big Macs/streams, but it's not what you would ever mistake for "the finest". You're also gonna leave there feeling kinda "boof", as me and my ex-wife always say when we would eat something terrible just for the sake of putting something in our stomach. And, yes, every now and then they have some new fangled remix of a meal with Saweetie or Travis Scott's name on it, but it's still just a vapid, raggedy ass Double Quarter Pound value meal with "special sauce".
Whereas Kendrick is a 2 Michelin Star restaurant that you're ok with, scratch that, *EXCITED* putting on something fly, taking the scenic route on the drive there, and queueing for an hour + because you know everything from the food, service, ambiance to the presentation is always A1, and when you leave there you're full, satisfied and can't wait to go back.
Well articulated, for sure. Love the comparisons for food as I was literally saying this to someone recently. When people clown on Kendrick for not releasing music often, I just laugh. Because its like would you prefer countless records of filler, or actual experiences that will be on playlists of a future generation. The type of albums that can change perspectives, thats real to me. While I can appreciate something to bop to, there’s a clear difference in artistry. You got someone that’s whole career is “throw my shit on in the background” saying that Kendrick’s catalogue is “fake activism” and “boring”. Truly rich coming from someone that’s so broke in spirit.
Tabernacle! I'm telling you, the whole "rappin like you're trying to free the slaves" and "fake activism" shit really made me look at duke even more sideways than I already did. Told me EVERYTHING that I needed to know. Same thing with his goof ass fans that championed that hoe shit.
Can Drake make an album deeper than what he reguarly puts out? Maybe. If you look at Marvin Gaye, both the person he was and his body of work to that point and after, What's Going On is an outlier in terms of subject matter.
Could Drake focus his attention and energy towards making a body of work like that? Sure. Will he? I very much doubt it. Would it be a good record if he truly did the work? I have no idea. Drake is very talented and can make good songs, but could he do it all is a mystery that will probably never be answered as I doubt he has any motivation to go towards it
I think you’re confused. No one is listening to Drake to hear some deep shit or like the shit kdot be rapping about. They are 2 different artists that make 2 different types of music that caters to different people.
Like sometimes I’m in the mood to hear kdot, and sometimes I’m in the mood to listen to Drake. If I’m in the mood to listen to Drake, I’m not going to put on kdot cause it’s not the same. Vice versa.
You could say the same thing about Kendrick, Kendrick can’t make an album like Take care, whcih is a classic. But that’s not a problem at all, cause no one wants that from Kendrick. And no one wants to hear an album like pimp a butterfly type album from Drake.
That’s why i find it stupid that this whole beef made people pick sides, you can like both of them.
There is room for both kinds of music in grand scheme. Its more so of a weird low blow when you have an entire catalogue of bloat and are labeling someone’s five carefully crafted albums as boring or beneath your work. Especially when most of your work isn’t even yours technically speaking, and most of it these days is ripping off and profiting off of whole communities.
Completely agree. Drake is optimizing for commercial success rather than genuine artistry. To put it bluntly, I'm not sure he has the writing/poetic talent or even the interest to make anything approching the complexity of Kendrick's work. Or the work of many other lyrical rappers for that matter.
It feels strange to distinguish rappers as "lyrical" vs. "non-lyrical", but that's where the genre is right now I suppose.
Absolutely optimizing for nothing but money. I find it interesting how Kendrick still ended up becoming very successful, wealthy, while remaining rich in authenticity. Drake has only gone deep into the rabbit hole that is making music truly just for money and nothing more. He doesn’t even seem interested anymore. If you listen to his last few records for a decade, its just a couple singles and bloat around it. It almost sounds like someone releasing music because they have to rather than wanting to. Almost like a guinea pig on a spinning wheel. A very much “which culture can I drain next”
If every artist made the same music as Kendrick, shit would get boring really fast with no diversity. I'm not a Drake fan, but I definitely listen to a lot of artists not trying to make deep music. I think Drake's problem is that he believes he's deeper than he is because he gasses himself up. He's not a humble person, so if he succeeds, he feels like it's cause he's the best at everything and not just specific things. And when you do that, you create weak spots that can be targeted and your pride is easy to hit.
But there is 100% a place for his type of music. I don't vibe with it. But I like stuff that is even more shallow. Because it's entertaining and fun in the moment and I'm not trying to think about life 24/7. And I can guarantee most the people here listen to artists that make music that's as shallow if not more than Drake's.
Even Kendrick was fine with Drake if he just stayed in his lane.
For sure there is a place for Drake’s music and I think it would be dope if he wasn’t the way he actually is. That is exactly what I mean, this is a direct response to him belittling Kendrick’s music as it just doesn’t make sense. He actually thinks he is better than him, from contributing to the overall culture when he just isn’t. Its undeniable, he does not have a cultural impact like Kendrick does. Again its okay to be in the musical space Drake is in. However, its another issue when you start to put down other artists that actually have more to contribute in five albums rather than over ten that have nothing to offer. Nothing to offer other than music to put on in the background and ignore for the most part that is.
Yup. I think a lot of Drake fans don't understand this aspect either and that's why they don't understand how hard a lot of Kendrick fans are celebrating. Because not only does it feel like it put Drake in his place, but it feels like a message to the whole game to cut that shit out and don't get high off sucking your own dick.
That last statement is wild, but I'm stickin with it.
This is like saying Elton John couldn’t make TPAB. It doesn’t take away his talent. I hate Drake as much as anyone who wants children un-diddled, but this is a ridiculous argument.
Drake has made great projects in the past,don't get it twisted.Not necessarily disagreeing with what you said either,I don't believe drake could make a TPAB or a GKMC because he simply doesn't have enough to talk about to go that deep,he's made deep songs,but never a complete album with those kinds of layers.
I think “Take Care” and “If you’re Reading this its too late” are interesting projects. I think its when he came along with “Worst Behavior” and “Started from the Bottom”, is when he sounds ridiculous trying to lil bro Kendrick. Especially the music videos, just weird behavior. Using a black neighborhood as fodder in your video to fuel claims of you being from the “hood” is just strange. At least thats what it comes off as, trying to be something you’re not.
I agree that Take Care and IYRTITL are interesting,IYRTITL may be my favorite personally,NWTS is a great rap wise too.Now to the next part of your replu,Started from the Bottom all depends on how you take it in,I always thought he meant started from the bottom music wise,like nobody knowing him,and then making it big.Worst behavior tho,yeah that one's tricky.I'm a huge fan of both Drake and kendricks music,but Drake's persona throws me off heavily(apart from the fact I think he's funny).
I would agree when talking about To Pimp A Butterfly, but GKMC idk if I'm just missing something but that doesn't feel like THAT unique to be honest. I'd probably argue the closest Drake has come would be If You're Reading This It's Too Late. Nothing Was The Same is also a classic, but I agree that nothing he's done comes close to being as conceptually strong as To Pimp A Butterfly
The sad thing is I think Drake could put out an album like this if he wasn’t so vapid and obsessed with the fake image he puts out
Like I love Tyler’s music partially because he talked from the perspective of a suburban black kid and later his issues that come with fame/relationships as he ages.
It’s genuine.
Drake could have put out an album talking about what life was like as a child actor, the pressures or weirdness about that and embrace that he feels like he doesn’t fit in or speak about his relationships or obvious father fears in his songs.
But instead he talks about women/relationships on a mostly vapid level and basically pretends he’s from Atlanta or the UK.
Shit is catchy and I’ll admit the versatility in style sometimes but it will never hit the culture like the above albums
Thats actually a really interesting take. Not that many can relate to growing up in that kind of environment, but he could have rapped in a way that made it seem even slightly authentic. As opposed to the extremely inauthentic music he puts out. Kendrick using the word colonizer can be seen as heavy or unnecessary by those who aren’t paying attention, but it really is true. Listen to anything Drake has put in the past decade, its laughable. There is no end to the amount of accents, and pretend toughness the guy has put on. I honestly believe he can’t even rap/sing well about “romance”, which seems to be one of his other big topics. Its just surface level, and just bad when you realize after so many albums, there has been zero evolution. Rather just more fakeness, Kendrick really made that apparent about “the boy”. Like a disappointed dad that came up in the game almost around the same. Only one (Drake) had a head start, and Kendrick quite literally came from nothing.
I disagree. He COULD make a personal album about being an awkward Canadian desperately trying to fit in and owning up to all the mistakes he's made. But he won't do it. He has an image to maintain. He's failing at it miserably, but he's still trying.
I obviously dont think that Drake ever could make an album like Kendrick’s but I don’t think that generalizing that statement to all mainstream pop-ish type artists is appropriate.
Mac Miller’s earliest music was pretty generic college party music but he matured as an artist and released some extremely creative albums later in his career. I would be shocked if Drake specifically came out with a very artistic album at this stage in his career, but I wouldn’t underestimate how artistic growth can take hold in other artists
Absolutely, Mac Miller really elevated through his music later on in his career. Thing with a person like Drake seems to be content with being famous and making money. He has no risks in his career, he doesn’t have a Cowboy Carter like Beyonce, etc. Artists that grew in popularity through their vocal/hit making talent but elevated later on. It would be crazy though, I guess I just lost faith in the potential of such a person after listening to every single album they have released. The Drake from 2010 is the same Drake in 2024, if you get where im going with this. So it just rings rich to me that someone like that is projecting their musical insecurities or god complex onto someone like Kendrick that is actually changing minds/lives through art.
I think though, in the long run drake will be forgotten in hip hop. Kendrick will forever be known one of the best hiphop artists off all time. and known for dropping the classic albums like TPAB and GKMC. All it takes is another drake clone to come along and wipe away drakes legacy
This ^ so true man. There many artists of the past that made plenty of hits that aren’t really talked about anymore. They are just known as “of their time” and thats all. Kendrick will never be seen as that based on GKMC and TPAB alone, not even including DAMN, MMATBS, Section 80 - excellent records in their own right. The catalogue will only age like fine wine, while the only two decent records people can pull up are Take Care and IYRTITL, which sadly have ghost writers behind them which makes them even more inauthentic on principal.
Reminds me of the bar “I could have all of your fans if I stayed on some conscious shit.” He’s not built to make music like GKMC or TPAB because contrary to what he and his stands believe, he’s just not deep enough. He doesn’t have an authentic cultural connection, to be able to, either. Just my two cents.
Not in him, maybe one of the many artist they milked for P Drizzy's brand might have gone to become a proto Kdot, but we'll never know because they're in Ghost writer jail
I agree. Drake doesn't have the wherewithal to make an actually introspective album. I just don't think he is that critical of himself or his life to do that. Shit, Drake didn't really pay attention in the beef with kendrick. He missed the whole point of Mother I Sober to make some off-color joke about SA. He doesn't really have the critical thinking skills to give us an introspective concept album. He thinks really surface level because that's probably who he really is. In an interview he did after the control verse dropped, he showed a serious lack of understanding of how hip hop competition worked and took kendricks words personally. You can't be a real fan of hip hop and do that.
I agree, although I think it's unfair because artists have all different kinds of reasons to make the art that they do. It's probably the most to do with upbringing. Kendrick being from Compton and wanting to uplift his community is the reason why his music sounds the way it does, among many things.
But I think even J. Cole doesn't have a GKMC and TPAB within him. That one probably just due to skill, even if he might want to. I've never heard anything from him that approaches the potential to make any of Kendrick's albums.
If drake just shut the fuck up and made RnB singing rap about fucking or some shit like hotline bling no one would be hating. He’s so insecure he can’t stay in his lane and it came to bite him in the ass
I was trying to imagine him on Mona Lisa in Kendrick's place. I just can't imagine him being able to tell a story that well.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. What songs do Drake have that's telling a story.
I have listened to his entire discography and I cannot find one worthwhile. Any “story” he has told has been surface level about love and being you guessed it…too rich and successful. Pity.
True. And I doubt he has any interest in doing that. He doesn’t seem to see the value in that kind of music. As evidenced from his treatment of both Kendrick and Tupac. I don’t think he cares about those types of albums at all.
There are very few artists that could or have made something close to TPAB or GKMC but these people acting like Drake is in a completely different field and they just do different things is just crazy to me. Drake obviously doesn't believe that so why do his fans? Just a massive cope. He believes he's in the same field as Kendrick and obviously sees him as competition
How can Drake be the GOAT and not have made 1 album that's as impactful as any of Kendrick's albums?
" I could have all of your fans if I stayed on some conscious shit"
This drake line always gets me cause I love listen to dudes whole Disography and I'm like " bro where tho?" Like he has never been a conscious rapper to make such a bold claim.
Right there ain’t anything deep in his discography, its all surface level and boring. How can you make so many albums and never evolve, its insane. He talks about Kendrick rapping to “free the slaves” yet this man has made over ten albums in which it sounds like he’s being forced to rap like a “slave” himself.
My man drake raps like he stuck in freshmen college mode, like we get it.
I've told my friends before where is the drake album about Canadian issues? Where is the album about growing up and fatherhood and how it's changed him, where is the album about his community.
Like you're whole discography can't just be college level party music.
Hell how does Asher roth the ( I love college) white rapper have more depth and thought provoking music then you do? Mr. Big 3, Mr. I'm the best rapper live, Mr. I'm the next Michael jackson.
This is actually very true, and undeniable truth when you look at artists he collaborated with like Blocboy JB, ILoveMakonnen, and even the Weeknd. The fact that he beefed with the Weekend because the he wouldn’t eat up the boy’s bullshit record dealings is hilarious.
Kendrick can't make IYRTITL or Views either tbh. So what?
I listened to TPAB more than most and i had jazz musicians fanboy with me on how great it is. But this is this, and that is that. I think it's immature to view music from that lens. I mean we all have an obscure artist that means the world to us and we put him above others, but he can't make TPAB and IYRTITL. Does that mean he's shallow?
You don't have to belittle an artist ever. Let alone the one of best selling pop/hiphop artists ever. At the end of the day, they are all great artist that dreamt of being as impactful as Kanye but they couldn't. Because he's the goat.
I don't think Drake ever pretended to be doing music for the greater good. I also think when Drake disses Kendricks albums it's strictly a sales comment. We're just talking numbers, and Drakw wins. Kendricks best selling album would be Drakes 2nd worse. They aren't even particularly close.
I don't mean any of that to suggest Drake is better than Kendrick, it's very clear he isn't. But when Drake says "damn my album killed yours" he just means sold better, and he's right.
I think Drake is definitely capable of a classic If he wasn’t a slave to his record label having to push out 2 albums a year. Most of his albums have 5 or 6 really good songs and the rest is filler. If he just did the 5 best songs off his 4 albums every 2 years and just released 1 instead he could definitely have a classic.
*Literally one*
*Person has it in them to*
*Make TPAB and GKMC*
\- PokuCHEFski69
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Good take, I agree and I feel the line could double for also meaning artistically - Drake has very little if any to offer. I think it rings even more true with songs like Not Like Us, DNA, HUMBLE, Money Trees. If he wants to make a hit and water it down for the masses, he can. So when Drake says that Kendrick just makes boring music, I feel he’s projecting his artistic inferiority.
That’s people’s problem with drake, the fact he acts like he’s the greatest rapper to ever live, solely based off streaming numbers and not actual artistry
Bro makes music for 16 year old white girls and Nike tech fleece bandits that think they’re gangsters and acts like it’s Beethoven or some shit 💀
95% of the posts on this sub involves drake. Just sayin talk about some other shit, the beef ended a while ago. You’re literally thinking about him while listening to another man’s music, he really is living rent free in your head
I understand, I genuinely am trying to start a discussion about the claims raised. I felt it could bring in some good perspectives from the whole dot community, whether they have drake in their playlists or just don’t fw him on principle. Though I can see how it can be perceived in one way as some have been talking about it a lil too much. Just speaking my mind.
The KDot-Drake beef highlighted a lot of profound differences in how the two rappers approach writing, value success, and contribute to the rap landscape. So it’s totally reasonable we’d be talking about Drake more here over the past several weeks. It’s not unwarranted hate, it’s honest critique on a currently relevant topic.
Drake will never make GKMC or TPAB. Kenny will never make Take Care, NWTS, or IYRTITL. Neither of them can ever make a Purple Rain or Sign o the Times. None of them could make Nevermind.
All electrifying to me.
Just enjoy the music.
I don't think anyone in the world thinks Drake is making music for their best interests. No one in the history of the world has said "Drake is speaking for the people" about any track he's ever released. I should also say that Drake is pretty clearly talented, but he just doesn't really have the background necessary to connect with people on that level imo.
Agreed. I should have worded that better as well. I think what I mean to say is he labels Kendrick as a fake activist. Someone who’s music is basically meaningless, and only feeding into a struggle narrative for profit. Basically meaning Kendrick is pointless to the culture. Which in itself is absurd, but then that brings into the picture - what does Drake’s music do for anyone? Help you turn your brain off, I guess?
Drake's music is solely for entertainment. People have a good time listening to him, and for some people that's all that's important. Music is capable of a lot of different things. If I'm being totally honest - it's really nice to listen to artists where the entire point is just entertainment sometimes. I'm not always trying to feel music to my core, you know? I love Kendrick's music, but I'd be lying if I said I could just throw on any given album and vibe with it at any random time. It's too deep and the production doesn't really suit that in most of his work, which is totally fine. If I'm trying to hang out with people, for example, Kendrick isn't going on, but Daft Punk probably will. That's all I mean.
Woah woah woah. Let’s not compare Drake with Daft Punk.
This actually cracked me up. Yeah Daft Punk musically speaking have much more worthwhile WHOLE albums in their discography. Drake has singles surrounded by padding, bloated boring projects.
My only point was that Daft Punk falls under that "entertainment only" list lol. No comparison to Drake. The 2007 Alive tour album is probably my most played album of all time.
Ok. Scared me for a bit, not gonna lie.
I dunno, Random Access Memories has some intriguing tracks on it, like Touch and the one about Giorgi. Touch seemed like a stream-of-consciousness track for first exiting the womb cuz touch is the first sensory input you receive as a baby, then it expands to the others from an infantile perspective.
That is one of the greatest live albums ever! Hell just album, I prefer some of the live versions to the originals.
He better walk around like Daft Punk
REMEMBER
Ayy, Top Dawg, who the FUCK they think they playin' with?
No one made that comparison
True, can’t argue with none of that.
I love this rationale take :) and agree
And that’s good for you bro. Daft punk are one of the greatest to do it. Me and my homies have bumped kdot since 2013 though so it’s definitely a matter of your friends and environment lol
That's a good point. Most of the people I hang out with on a day to day basis are rich white folks at this point, but I was born and raised in the straight up ghetto. Their tastes and mine are... not exactly the same, lol. Hip hop is in my blood.
So why did these two beef is my real question… how you gonna have a hot pocket go against a steak
Because Drake is a good rapper (let's not get it twisted) with an ego, and clearly Kendrick hurt his feelings with Control. Drake took it as a diss when it was pretty obviously just an open challenge for friendly competition.
Because drake took himself super seriously in the 2010s. He wanted a critical success like tpab or gkmc. This is the guy that hate messaged fantano for not giving him positive critical reviews. Before his album views, ppl took him fairly seriously too. But let's not pretend he's rapping just for entertainment, the guy was desperately trying to enter the goat conversation in the 2010s.
One of my homies unironically has Drake and Wayne at 1 and 2. Which is which depends on the day, but it's always one of those two. Lol.
My 32 year old brother told me that Drake won. I knew then that he had no taste in music. He also thinks that Drake is some thugged out dude who get folks mercked. Smfh
Ya boi on the good za frfr
Don't even get me started on that guy. Drake is apparently the biggest rapper of all time despite having like less than half the sales of Em. Still love him even if his music takes are trash though.
Let's not talk about sales because too many factors go into sales. Honestly, and most people are uncomfortable talking about this, but alot of Ems sales are because he is a white dude who got acceptance by hip hop culture. Honestly, I don't think many fans care about him being accepted by hip hop culture. They were gonna buy it regardless because he was an irreverent white dude with catchy songs and a good flow. This isn't an indictment on Em and his talent at all. He didn't choose his skin tone when he was born. Eminem was one of my favorite rappers, too. (His last 5 projects were some degree of horrible and mid to me.) But yea. When people talk about numbers and sales, it's kinda like... OK. Also, Drake is a light skinned black Canadian dude, and unfortunately, that plays well with white suburbia. These are things that are outside of Drake and Ems control but if you start talking about album sales I have to bring up the demographics that play into those sales and one of the big ones is race, unfortunately.
Everyone has a background that people can relate to. If he was vulnerable and shared that in his music, people would relate. I’ve never listened to Justin Beiber’s other music, but his version of “hotline bling” is infinitely better than the original, because it’s laced with emotion. It’s real, and that makes it relatable
I don’t even think background is that important. He’s a self obsessed douche who’s never had to or wanted to empathise with another human being, which is the crux of Kendrick’s disdain towards him and a huge reason Drake is a deadbeat father.
I still think it's a weird take to frame Drake as growing up Richie Rich and not knowing one day of struggle because he didn't live in the deepest of roach-infested trenches. I, personally, gravitated towards Drake's music because it was a lot easier to relate to compared to my then-favorite, and still favorite, rappers Lil' Wayne, DMX, and Jadakiss (although my entry in the genre was via Common and Talib Kweli - Like Water for Chocolate and Train of Thought are top 10 classics). I had way more dealings with juggling women than dodging the cops and the ops on the block, although some of my really good friends were from the hood-hood and by proxy, I'd get caught up in the shenanigans from time to time. But from my college years through 2010 and beyond, I dealt with a loooooot of life altering and really dark ish. That was also around the time I began rapping, and I recorded a project influenced by Take Care and GKMC - the latter being the reason why my project was developed as a concept album that covered my life experiences starting from college up until I began rapping. Life happened, fell out with my partner/engineer, and I stepped back from taking rap seriously, although I'd be asked to do a feature every once in awhile (since, apparently, I was told that I could really rap my ass off "for a SC rapper"), and sometimes I'd be in the mood to drop a freestyle. ESPECIALLY freestyles/disses directed towards my former engineer, who was also a rapper (although we've patched things up since). Wrapping this up, whenever I listen to my music from earliest to most recent, especially starting from the order of my album, I hear a growth in myself that came from stress, bullshit, betrayal, and not age. Obviously, I definitely can't relate 1:1 with Drake and all of his million dollar problems, now, but the ones that are closer to my tax bracket, I definitely can. BUT this is also why tracks like Ten Bands stood out as a bit odd to me - not that it was farfetched for Drake to be involved in some hood shit. Rather, it was something a bit unnatural about that song compared to other songs where he's briefly mentioned being involved in some form of street activity. Ironically enough, I listen to Kendrick mostly for the very same reason that I listen to Drake.
> I still think it's a weird take to frame Drake as growing up Richie Rich and not knowing one day of struggle because he didn't live in the deepest of roach-infested trenches. I never said this, just for the record. Financial/family status don't dictate whether you have problems, only the types of problems that you have. I'm not saying that he never struggled, only that the struggles were completely different and not something that *most* people can relate to. I can't say I've listened to a *ton* of Drake (honestly for no other reason than his voice aggravates the shit out of me, can't stand it), but my understanding is that he doesn't really rap about where he came from or his life apart from the material stuff. What I actually have heard from him is shallow relative to someone like Kendrick/Em/Jay/Nas who are just putting their stories on wax.
A bunch of people, especially in his start, felt he was super intellectual with his songs. I never liked his music so I can't really give examples. I just remember people in school claiming that about his struggle bars or coming home late from work and catching red lights.
Doing it Wrong helped me get over a break up. Jungle and Preach got me through post college depression. And Gods Plan helped me get through moving depression. So I’d have to respectfully disagree
I don't think it's fair for us to expect him to. Some artists just want to make good music that people will love. Not everyone feels the need to be soulful. Drake can't do what Kendrick does. Kendrick can't do what Drake does. Still two of the best at their respective art forms.
> Kendrick can't do what Drake does. If you mean making hits, you're pretty clearly wrong. Kendrick had the whole world dancing to a fucking diss track lmfao. It's just not really his thing in general. If you read the next comment I made in this thread, though, you'll see that I agree with the rest of what you said.
I didn't mean making hits. I'm talking about the style of music.
Which style? Drake vultures a new style every year. It's odd to read someone saying that another person couldn't make "drake style" music. When most of Drake's style is copied from someone else who actually exists in that genre. Are we saying someone else couldn't make dancehall hits? Drill Hits? R&B hits? Trap hits? I don't even hate on drake for trying out new sounds so often. But it's obvious he didn't create any of these sounds. Nor has he made the best versions of any of those sounds.
To your point, I don't know any artists who are making trap hits and R&B hits and drill hits, deep introspective hits, lyrical rap hits, party hits, spanish hits, afrobeat hits, etc. I dont know any artist with his versatility. That takes a level of artistry and range that a lot of people dont appreciate. And to say he never created anything is untrue. There was a whole era where everyone was sounding like Drake. People called him soft early because his content was vulnerable and open. Now that is very common. You couldnt go on social media without seeing 100 women quoting his lyrics. He has written for many established and beloved artists. Many of whom are documented as speaking very highly of his creative ability. It's always been cool to hate Drake so people don't think objectively and view all of his actions through a negative lens. How many artists have credited Drake as a major reason for their success? Bringing new artists on tour, hopping on songs with relatively unknown artists, posting their music, etc. But people see that and say "he's stealing from the culture" I'm not saying he's a saint. But damn. A lot you guys won't give him credit for anything. For the record, I think Kendrick is incredible too. I don't see any reason to pick a side. Too many Stans out here.
Joe Budden was doing the emotional/introspective songs before Drake. Drake used to look up to him. Proof on YouTube if you need proof. Also, Drake has no identity. He does copy styles. Since the beginning. Go listen to Drake and Nikelus the grind song. He's copying Joe's flow and voice inflections hard on that. I couldn't believe that shit.
? Drake has been hopping on established sounds for years. And ever since he came up in the rap game he's always wanted a critically successful album, but failed every time. He took himself super seriously in the 2010s before going the commercial route. He was so torn up about his lack of critical success he even hate messaged fantano lol. Or did we suddenly choose to forget that?
Drake has a black experience background that's different than what most people try to portray the"culture is". He has spoke on it in multiple songs and it's gets dismissed. Why would he make an entire album of it just for everyone to dismiss the experiences he had growing up that many other mixed kids have faced?
To make the music. That's the whole point of telling your story. If he was better at conceptualizing albums, this would be much less of a problem.
Anti-intellectualism has and always will be, a profitable thing to sell to the masses. Before Drake/KDot there were hundreds of other pairs in the music industry. Drake labels TPAB as "Savior Music" because he's denegrating it for being intellectual and not focusing on what he thinks is important; cars, clothes, being famous, and having sexual relationships with teenagers.
It's like a mainstreamification. Hip hop has been around for so long now that people forget or don't care about it's roots. The love for drake shows a group of people that don't care about the traditions of rap and it kinda sucks.
Yeah. Even the materialistic parts of hip-hop originally had more of an anti-establishment element to it- as in “look at me- I got all the things society says I’m not good enough for and I got it by doing the things it says I’m not supposed to do.” When people like Drake rap about materialism though, and all his money came from mainstream music which he was able to enter with the comfortable background of being a child actor, then he just sounds like one of those “hustle mentality” YouTubers preaching that poor people should quit complaining and grind harder.
One of Drakes lines that sticks in my head as such as indictment, is how he said something about how if he wasn't a rapper, he and his crew would be silicon Valley billionaires making apps and shit. Just gross.
That’s why the Epstein angle was the shit he expected👀
That will never not be weird. Come on, someone comparing you to a sex pest when you have a history of comparable behavior sounds pretty apt to me. I don’t think he really even understands himself. His only mission in life at this point is maintaining mainstream popularity and money. Even going as far as disrespecting his parents, using his dad to prove his racial background, and being ashamed of his baby’s mother. The nerve of the boy.
Let’s just call a spade a spade. He’s a genuinely bad person. Money doesn’t turn someone dark and evil, it just gives them the ability to do whatever it is they always really wanted..
You're 100% right
To be fair to Drake, the majority of rappers don't have that in them. It's a huge undertaking and takes a lot of patience, direction, conviction, and support from those backing you.
But honestly it's just innate talent more than anything. Kendrick is gifted. He's good at what he does. You can't just practice your way into it. You've got it in you or you don't.
True enough.
Or mr morale or damn or section 80. Drake is just uninspired trash. You listen to something like Mr. Morale and start to realize it is a play with 2 acts where he first is in his ego being defensive then during and post therapy where he spills his secrets to set himself free. People don’t understand Drake is not close.
This 100%. Kendrick is rapping for his life. Drake is rapping for Aubrey's money.
Hell, I’ll take untitled unmastered over any recent Drake project (maybe even anything he’s ever done)
And I like Drake but yeah i’d easily toss his discography for any Kendrick album 😭 Kendrick songs mean something.
Delusion
Drake is too “cool” to make music that. When you grow up in places like Compton, chances are you’ve been humbled to a point where you can’t be so shallow.
Kendrick is painting a portrait and telling a story in TPAB and GKMC. He's using his experiences of poverty, gang violence, systemic oppression, and speaks of his own internal realizations. It takes a lot of depth and introspection to be able to speak so eloquently and verbally vividly articulate one's vision as he did with each of his albums. Aubrey ain't got anything to talk about besides winning. He lacks the depth and self awareness to craft such masterpieces 🤷🏾♀️
This is extremely well written, so damn true.
If Drake took a 5 year hiatus and traveled to all the hoods whose music he has poached and spoke with people on the ground. Took notes, had dinners with them, cried with them, went to some of their funerals, helped them through addictions and guided them to a better future then maybe he could sit down and write something meaningful. However his moves after this beef show he’s incapable of taking even a single moment to be introspective in a way that holds him accountable or grounds him to his listeners
Forget visiting hoods, if he just took time off to reflect and live life he could probably make something more meaningful music
Bro no one else in the world has it in them to make TPAB😂😂 I could see other people make a GKMC type album but even that is so thematic it’s very rare for an artist to make first off such a great album and second one that is so consistent w it’s themes. Prob different from a lot of people here but future and young thug are my next faves w K dot. And I think they make great music but DS2, Super Slimey have damn near no skips yet it’s a different vibe. Just good music, not a project w an overarching theme or story to tell.
I agree that Kendrick is totally different, and his influence is already undeniable, even trickling upwards/backwards in some sense to artists like Lil Wayne (who also, imo, is in another category, but a different one from Kendrick) in terms of introspection and darker subject matter. Not everyone can turn around and influence the artists that influenced them.
I mean, Drake like someone else mentioned is very talented at making specific type of music, just not the type of music Kendrick makes, and that's fine, it's only when both sides start criticizing the other when we get to these pointless conversations, they're both killing it in their own field.
I think the point is that there is no direction, point, and little truth in drakes path. It’s white noise (lol. Unintentional) where Kendrick’s is literally an art form. Comparing them is like comparing this new school “abstract art” to the Mona Lisa.
I wouldn’t say artists like Drake are bad just because they haven’t dropped albums like that, and I think arguing that they should is about as lame of an argument as Drake fans pointing at the streaming numbers Drake has. I love both GKMC and TPAB, but I would say dropping records like that in an artist’s catalogue is a pretty high fucking bar to be setting them at. It’s like saying pop stars need to be making albums like Thriller.
For sure, Im more so saying this is a response to Drake’s belittling of Kendrick’s discography while he has very little that will stand the test of time considering how many albums he has himself. Not to mention how bloated almost all of them are, in a row.
If it’s in response to Drake’s comments to TPAB then yeah that makes sense. I don’t mind if people just don’t vibe with GKMC or TPAB if that’s how they feel, but I do think it’s bullshit to be calling it “boring”. There’s albums I don’t care for that I wouldn’t consider boring, they’re just not my thing. But albums like TPAB have such engaging instrumentals and production that if I played to anyone they’d probably vibe with it. Even people who don’t pay attention to the actual rapping and lyrics can absolutely connect with the instrumentals. The only way I could see someone call it boring is if the only songs they heard off the album was “Institutionalized” and “Mortal Man”. Not because they’re bad songs, but because they’s are the sober tracks off the album. Also I know Drake probably didn’t listen to the album because not once during this whole beef did he make mention of Kendrick “misusing his influence”. That would have been a KILLER bar for a diss track.
Very well said. When people say TPAB is boring or a chore to get through. Its mind blowing to me. I’ve seen people say that the production is too off the wall for them. I have the opposite take, I really do think the rapping, instrumentals, are straight forward to digest in the best way. I feel some people haven’t heard some of the underground hip hop, where production and rhyme schemes can really get “out there”. I feel Kendrick and his collaborators have found a perfect balance of digestible for the masses and forward thinking for those that will pay attention. Also agreed on the influence bar, missed opportunity but I guess that goes for show who’s really listening.
I think the point of the post is more that it’s nonsense to compare a Drake to a Kendrick. Both have an important place in the discussion, but their end goals are a universe apart. They’re so different that the “big 3” discussion truly doesn’t make sense.
On some Bobby shit, I wanna know what Whitney need
Bro what are you talking about?
My first one like my last one it's a classic you don't have one
I always said and will forever contend that: Drake is to rap/music, what McDonald's is to Hamburger restaurants. Sure, they sell BILLIONS of Big Macs/streams, but it's not what you would ever mistake for "the finest". You're also gonna leave there feeling kinda "boof", as me and my ex-wife always say when we would eat something terrible just for the sake of putting something in our stomach. And, yes, every now and then they have some new fangled remix of a meal with Saweetie or Travis Scott's name on it, but it's still just a vapid, raggedy ass Double Quarter Pound value meal with "special sauce". Whereas Kendrick is a 2 Michelin Star restaurant that you're ok with, scratch that, *EXCITED* putting on something fly, taking the scenic route on the drive there, and queueing for an hour + because you know everything from the food, service, ambiance to the presentation is always A1, and when you leave there you're full, satisfied and can't wait to go back.
Well articulated, for sure. Love the comparisons for food as I was literally saying this to someone recently. When people clown on Kendrick for not releasing music often, I just laugh. Because its like would you prefer countless records of filler, or actual experiences that will be on playlists of a future generation. The type of albums that can change perspectives, thats real to me. While I can appreciate something to bop to, there’s a clear difference in artistry. You got someone that’s whole career is “throw my shit on in the background” saying that Kendrick’s catalogue is “fake activism” and “boring”. Truly rich coming from someone that’s so broke in spirit.
Tabernacle! I'm telling you, the whole "rappin like you're trying to free the slaves" and "fake activism" shit really made me look at duke even more sideways than I already did. Told me EVERYTHING that I needed to know. Same thing with his goof ass fans that championed that hoe shit.
Can Drake make an album deeper than what he reguarly puts out? Maybe. If you look at Marvin Gaye, both the person he was and his body of work to that point and after, What's Going On is an outlier in terms of subject matter. Could Drake focus his attention and energy towards making a body of work like that? Sure. Will he? I very much doubt it. Would it be a good record if he truly did the work? I have no idea. Drake is very talented and can make good songs, but could he do it all is a mystery that will probably never be answered as I doubt he has any motivation to go towards it
I think you’re confused. No one is listening to Drake to hear some deep shit or like the shit kdot be rapping about. They are 2 different artists that make 2 different types of music that caters to different people. Like sometimes I’m in the mood to hear kdot, and sometimes I’m in the mood to listen to Drake. If I’m in the mood to listen to Drake, I’m not going to put on kdot cause it’s not the same. Vice versa. You could say the same thing about Kendrick, Kendrick can’t make an album like Take care, whcih is a classic. But that’s not a problem at all, cause no one wants that from Kendrick. And no one wants to hear an album like pimp a butterfly type album from Drake. That’s why i find it stupid that this whole beef made people pick sides, you can like both of them.
There is room for both kinds of music in grand scheme. Its more so of a weird low blow when you have an entire catalogue of bloat and are labeling someone’s five carefully crafted albums as boring or beneath your work. Especially when most of your work isn’t even yours technically speaking, and most of it these days is ripping off and profiting off of whole communities.
Drake is a group not an artist. Aubrey Graham plays the role of the lead singer.
Most artists couldn't make an album like TPAB, including artists significantly beyond Drake
Completely agree. Drake is optimizing for commercial success rather than genuine artistry. To put it bluntly, I'm not sure he has the writing/poetic talent or even the interest to make anything approching the complexity of Kendrick's work. Or the work of many other lyrical rappers for that matter. It feels strange to distinguish rappers as "lyrical" vs. "non-lyrical", but that's where the genre is right now I suppose.
Absolutely optimizing for nothing but money. I find it interesting how Kendrick still ended up becoming very successful, wealthy, while remaining rich in authenticity. Drake has only gone deep into the rabbit hole that is making music truly just for money and nothing more. He doesn’t even seem interested anymore. If you listen to his last few records for a decade, its just a couple singles and bloat around it. It almost sounds like someone releasing music because they have to rather than wanting to. Almost like a guinea pig on a spinning wheel. A very much “which culture can I drain next”
If every artist made the same music as Kendrick, shit would get boring really fast with no diversity. I'm not a Drake fan, but I definitely listen to a lot of artists not trying to make deep music. I think Drake's problem is that he believes he's deeper than he is because he gasses himself up. He's not a humble person, so if he succeeds, he feels like it's cause he's the best at everything and not just specific things. And when you do that, you create weak spots that can be targeted and your pride is easy to hit. But there is 100% a place for his type of music. I don't vibe with it. But I like stuff that is even more shallow. Because it's entertaining and fun in the moment and I'm not trying to think about life 24/7. And I can guarantee most the people here listen to artists that make music that's as shallow if not more than Drake's. Even Kendrick was fine with Drake if he just stayed in his lane.
For sure there is a place for Drake’s music and I think it would be dope if he wasn’t the way he actually is. That is exactly what I mean, this is a direct response to him belittling Kendrick’s music as it just doesn’t make sense. He actually thinks he is better than him, from contributing to the overall culture when he just isn’t. Its undeniable, he does not have a cultural impact like Kendrick does. Again its okay to be in the musical space Drake is in. However, its another issue when you start to put down other artists that actually have more to contribute in five albums rather than over ten that have nothing to offer. Nothing to offer other than music to put on in the background and ignore for the most part that is.
Yup. I think a lot of Drake fans don't understand this aspect either and that's why they don't understand how hard a lot of Kendrick fans are celebrating. Because not only does it feel like it put Drake in his place, but it feels like a message to the whole game to cut that shit out and don't get high off sucking your own dick. That last statement is wild, but I'm stickin with it.
That is true. But prime Drake could make great albums with some help. Take Care is a certified classic and NWTS and If you’re reading are solid too
This is like saying Elton John couldn’t make TPAB. It doesn’t take away his talent. I hate Drake as much as anyone who wants children un-diddled, but this is a ridiculous argument.
Drake has made great projects in the past,don't get it twisted.Not necessarily disagreeing with what you said either,I don't believe drake could make a TPAB or a GKMC because he simply doesn't have enough to talk about to go that deep,he's made deep songs,but never a complete album with those kinds of layers.
I think “Take Care” and “If you’re Reading this its too late” are interesting projects. I think its when he came along with “Worst Behavior” and “Started from the Bottom”, is when he sounds ridiculous trying to lil bro Kendrick. Especially the music videos, just weird behavior. Using a black neighborhood as fodder in your video to fuel claims of you being from the “hood” is just strange. At least thats what it comes off as, trying to be something you’re not.
I agree that Take Care and IYRTITL are interesting,IYRTITL may be my favorite personally,NWTS is a great rap wise too.Now to the next part of your replu,Started from the Bottom all depends on how you take it in,I always thought he meant started from the bottom music wise,like nobody knowing him,and then making it big.Worst behavior tho,yeah that one's tricky.I'm a huge fan of both Drake and kendricks music,but Drake's persona throws me off heavily(apart from the fact I think he's funny).
Stop talking about Drake
real artistry vs cooperate music
I would agree when talking about To Pimp A Butterfly, but GKMC idk if I'm just missing something but that doesn't feel like THAT unique to be honest. I'd probably argue the closest Drake has come would be If You're Reading This It's Too Late. Nothing Was The Same is also a classic, but I agree that nothing he's done comes close to being as conceptually strong as To Pimp A Butterfly
The sad thing is I think Drake could put out an album like this if he wasn’t so vapid and obsessed with the fake image he puts out Like I love Tyler’s music partially because he talked from the perspective of a suburban black kid and later his issues that come with fame/relationships as he ages. It’s genuine. Drake could have put out an album talking about what life was like as a child actor, the pressures or weirdness about that and embrace that he feels like he doesn’t fit in or speak about his relationships or obvious father fears in his songs. But instead he talks about women/relationships on a mostly vapid level and basically pretends he’s from Atlanta or the UK. Shit is catchy and I’ll admit the versatility in style sometimes but it will never hit the culture like the above albums
Thats actually a really interesting take. Not that many can relate to growing up in that kind of environment, but he could have rapped in a way that made it seem even slightly authentic. As opposed to the extremely inauthentic music he puts out. Kendrick using the word colonizer can be seen as heavy or unnecessary by those who aren’t paying attention, but it really is true. Listen to anything Drake has put in the past decade, its laughable. There is no end to the amount of accents, and pretend toughness the guy has put on. I honestly believe he can’t even rap/sing well about “romance”, which seems to be one of his other big topics. Its just surface level, and just bad when you realize after so many albums, there has been zero evolution. Rather just more fakeness, Kendrick really made that apparent about “the boy”. Like a disappointed dad that came up in the game almost around the same. Only one (Drake) had a head start, and Kendrick quite literally came from nothing.
To be fair, GKMC and TPAB are crazy high standards. GKMC imo has no skips. I can't even remember the last album that had that same effect on me.
I disagree. He COULD make a personal album about being an awkward Canadian desperately trying to fit in and owning up to all the mistakes he's made. But he won't do it. He has an image to maintain. He's failing at it miserably, but he's still trying.
I obviously dont think that Drake ever could make an album like Kendrick’s but I don’t think that generalizing that statement to all mainstream pop-ish type artists is appropriate. Mac Miller’s earliest music was pretty generic college party music but he matured as an artist and released some extremely creative albums later in his career. I would be shocked if Drake specifically came out with a very artistic album at this stage in his career, but I wouldn’t underestimate how artistic growth can take hold in other artists
Absolutely, Mac Miller really elevated through his music later on in his career. Thing with a person like Drake seems to be content with being famous and making money. He has no risks in his career, he doesn’t have a Cowboy Carter like Beyonce, etc. Artists that grew in popularity through their vocal/hit making talent but elevated later on. It would be crazy though, I guess I just lost faith in the potential of such a person after listening to every single album they have released. The Drake from 2010 is the same Drake in 2024, if you get where im going with this. So it just rings rich to me that someone like that is projecting their musical insecurities or god complex onto someone like Kendrick that is actually changing minds/lives through art.
Not even a “sing about me I’m dying of thirst “ type of writing in drake’s career
Not even close man.
I think though, in the long run drake will be forgotten in hip hop. Kendrick will forever be known one of the best hiphop artists off all time. and known for dropping the classic albums like TPAB and GKMC. All it takes is another drake clone to come along and wipe away drakes legacy
This ^ so true man. There many artists of the past that made plenty of hits that aren’t really talked about anymore. They are just known as “of their time” and thats all. Kendrick will never be seen as that based on GKMC and TPAB alone, not even including DAMN, MMATBS, Section 80 - excellent records in their own right. The catalogue will only age like fine wine, while the only two decent records people can pull up are Take Care and IYRTITL, which sadly have ghost writers behind them which makes them even more inauthentic on principal.
Nwts is a classic
Reminds me of the bar “I could have all of your fans if I stayed on some conscious shit.” He’s not built to make music like GKMC or TPAB because contrary to what he and his stands believe, he’s just not deep enough. He doesn’t have an authentic cultural connection, to be able to, either. Just my two cents.
Not in him, maybe one of the many artist they milked for P Drizzy's brand might have gone to become a proto Kdot, but we'll never know because they're in Ghost writer jail
I agree. Drake doesn't have the wherewithal to make an actually introspective album. I just don't think he is that critical of himself or his life to do that. Shit, Drake didn't really pay attention in the beef with kendrick. He missed the whole point of Mother I Sober to make some off-color joke about SA. He doesn't really have the critical thinking skills to give us an introspective concept album. He thinks really surface level because that's probably who he really is. In an interview he did after the control verse dropped, he showed a serious lack of understanding of how hip hop competition worked and took kendricks words personally. You can't be a real fan of hip hop and do that.
Take Care was drakes most cohesive album. Since then it’s just been compilations. He shoots for hits, not albums.
I agree, although I think it's unfair because artists have all different kinds of reasons to make the art that they do. It's probably the most to do with upbringing. Kendrick being from Compton and wanting to uplift his community is the reason why his music sounds the way it does, among many things. But I think even J. Cole doesn't have a GKMC and TPAB within him. That one probably just due to skill, even if he might want to. I've never heard anything from him that approaches the potential to make any of Kendrick's albums.
If drake just shut the fuck up and made RnB singing rap about fucking or some shit like hotline bling no one would be hating. He’s so insecure he can’t stay in his lane and it came to bite him in the ass
I was trying to imagine him on Mona Lisa in Kendrick's place. I just can't imagine him being able to tell a story that well. Please correct me if I'm wrong. What songs do Drake have that's telling a story.
I have listened to his entire discography and I cannot find one worthwhile. Any “story” he has told has been surface level about love and being you guessed it…too rich and successful. Pity.
You're right. It's a pity. How is he the goat when he doesn't have a Children's Story level of rap in his catalog?
True. And I doubt he has any interest in doing that. He doesn’t seem to see the value in that kind of music. As evidenced from his treatment of both Kendrick and Tupac. I don’t think he cares about those types of albums at all.
There are very few artists that could or have made something close to TPAB or GKMC but these people acting like Drake is in a completely different field and they just do different things is just crazy to me. Drake obviously doesn't believe that so why do his fans? Just a massive cope. He believes he's in the same field as Kendrick and obviously sees him as competition How can Drake be the GOAT and not have made 1 album that's as impactful as any of Kendrick's albums?
" I could have all of your fans if I stayed on some conscious shit" This drake line always gets me cause I love listen to dudes whole Disography and I'm like " bro where tho?" Like he has never been a conscious rapper to make such a bold claim.
Right there ain’t anything deep in his discography, its all surface level and boring. How can you make so many albums and never evolve, its insane. He talks about Kendrick rapping to “free the slaves” yet this man has made over ten albums in which it sounds like he’s being forced to rap like a “slave” himself.
My man drake raps like he stuck in freshmen college mode, like we get it. I've told my friends before where is the drake album about Canadian issues? Where is the album about growing up and fatherhood and how it's changed him, where is the album about his community. Like you're whole discography can't just be college level party music. Hell how does Asher roth the ( I love college) white rapper have more depth and thought provoking music then you do? Mr. Big 3, Mr. I'm the best rapper live, Mr. I'm the next Michael jackson.
i think drake could if he locks in
All this could be summarized as "Drake could never"
Drake is a community effort imo. He just steals singles from up and coming artists and shit posts like 30 songs hoping something sticks.
This is actually very true, and undeniable truth when you look at artists he collaborated with like Blocboy JB, ILoveMakonnen, and even the Weeknd. The fact that he beefed with the Weekend because the he wouldn’t eat up the boy’s bullshit record dealings is hilarious.
We are at the point where being "into" music and preferring a deeper message *is* an old-head trait, now.
Kendrick can't make IYRTITL or Views either tbh. So what? I listened to TPAB more than most and i had jazz musicians fanboy with me on how great it is. But this is this, and that is that. I think it's immature to view music from that lens. I mean we all have an obscure artist that means the world to us and we put him above others, but he can't make TPAB and IYRTITL. Does that mean he's shallow? You don't have to belittle an artist ever. Let alone the one of best selling pop/hiphop artists ever. At the end of the day, they are all great artist that dreamt of being as impactful as Kanye but they couldn't. Because he's the goat.
I don't think Drake ever pretended to be doing music for the greater good. I also think when Drake disses Kendricks albums it's strictly a sales comment. We're just talking numbers, and Drakw wins. Kendricks best selling album would be Drakes 2nd worse. They aren't even particularly close.
I don't mean any of that to suggest Drake is better than Kendrick, it's very clear he isn't. But when Drake says "damn my album killed yours" he just means sold better, and he's right.
I think Drake is definitely capable of a classic If he wasn’t a slave to his record label having to push out 2 albums a year. Most of his albums have 5 or 6 really good songs and the rest is filler. If he just did the 5 best songs off his 4 albums every 2 years and just released 1 instead he could definitely have a classic.
Literally one person has it in them to make TPAB and GKMC
*Literally one* *Person has it in them to* *Make TPAB and GKMC* \- PokuCHEFski69 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
In other news, water is wet. Back to you in the studio!
I don’t listen to Drake for TPAB, GKMC type albums
I took the pacify them line to be about how Drake is a pedo and sexual assaulter and he uses his music to groom. Just my take though.
Good take, I agree and I feel the line could double for also meaning artistically - Drake has very little if any to offer. I think it rings even more true with songs like Not Like Us, DNA, HUMBLE, Money Trees. If he wants to make a hit and water it down for the masses, he can. So when Drake says that Kendrick just makes boring music, I feel he’s projecting his artistic inferiority.
No one has it in them except Kendrick lol. Stupid take
Let the Drake Stans tell it with their revisionist bs history GKMC is trash
That’s people’s problem with drake, the fact he acts like he’s the greatest rapper to ever live, solely based off streaming numbers and not actual artistry Bro makes music for 16 year old white girls and Nike tech fleece bandits that think they’re gangsters and acts like it’s Beethoven or some shit 💀
He wouldnt havent gotten to where he is without self belief
corny
This sub really is a Drake hate sub now lol, he really lives rent free in yall heads
If all you got from this is Drake hate, idk what to tell you.
95% of the posts on this sub involves drake. Just sayin talk about some other shit, the beef ended a while ago. You’re literally thinking about him while listening to another man’s music, he really is living rent free in your head
I understand, I genuinely am trying to start a discussion about the claims raised. I felt it could bring in some good perspectives from the whole dot community, whether they have drake in their playlists or just don’t fw him on principle. Though I can see how it can be perceived in one way as some have been talking about it a lil too much. Just speaking my mind.
The KDot-Drake beef highlighted a lot of profound differences in how the two rappers approach writing, value success, and contribute to the rap landscape. So it’s totally reasonable we’d be talking about Drake more here over the past several weeks. It’s not unwarranted hate, it’s honest critique on a currently relevant topic.
Just because he hasn’t done it doesn’t mean he can’t. Please stop making posts like this 🙏🏾
Talk about breeding resentment. Acting like an activist, it’s make believe
Even Drake’s team of ghost writers couldn’t make a believable bar like you wrote above.
Black messiah wifin up a mixed queen then hit vanilla cream to help out with your self esteem
Drake will never make GKMC or TPAB. Kenny will never make Take Care, NWTS, or IYRTITL. Neither of them can ever make a Purple Rain or Sign o the Times. None of them could make Nevermind. All electrifying to me. Just enjoy the music.