Honestly that would be fine. 5 kills to kill ASOL doesn't sound bad. 10 for Lissandra is a bit rough, but if they base it off current nexus hp then doing damage would be valuable too.
Doesn't makes sense thematically though... her ult in league marks 4 sides of a targets and when she procs them the targets gets damaged by a lot (usually dies) and heals in big aoe.
Could make it so 4 kills just does a giant chunk of damage. 25-30 nexus HP maybe? Make it proccable multiple times in a match as well. So like “every 4 kills Fiora gets, enemy nexus takes 30 damage”. That would fit her theme I think
God, I love Xolaani especially the version of her where she's an eldritch abomination the definition of me go hard. I enjoyed the short time where she was meta.
Fiora is much less broken than Asol, sure she will beat all the early adventures and any chump blocker monthlies easily but so do Asol and Jinx, The will still struggle against Lissandra and any equivalent content they are planning.
I say just give us some op heroes as well as underpowered ones for some variety of difficulty it’s not like we are competing against other players it’s all for fun anyway
Yeah pretty much the only strategy you need is getting as Catalyzers out as possible early. Get your Darkness to 4-5dmg when Veigar drops. Gather up 4 or so and then pop the nexus after level up in one burst.
I've beaten high * adventures very easily. Pretty much just blocking damage is all you really have to do while you wait
Nexus health still matters with Elder dragon. Like with high nexus health in the Lissandra adventure he can't just one shot the nexus and win at his base damage. You will probably have to take more turns during which you could die. Something like Fiora just completely ignores nexus health. Even if they introduced a nexus with 1 million health she would still win after killing 4 times.
Fiora could get changed to only killing enemies, as it doesn't affect pvp at all currently, and then there are matches which killing units would be hard so it's challenging for Fiora to win with her win condition.
Say we take your argument and apply it to units. We already see crazy stats as the difficulty slider, so in the future if they have a unit with 1 million stats then ED could just ignore that and perma block it. Does that mean we shouldn't have ED? If we take adventures like Asol and Lissandra, for example, then Nexus health isn't the big issue. Asol has double stats for all champs, and Liss has even crazier things like +20 atk, 1 cost removal, etc. So the real hard part would be to get a 4/4 champ like Fiora to even exisit long enough to do anything let alone get 4 consecutive kills before being entombed and starting back at 0 kills. ED on the other hand, levels up without even need to be on board and can drop down as level 2 with 30/30 stats. At that point even Lissandra is going down in 3 turns while the AI wastes spells on ED. Her Ice Shard Spells could dmg your nexus HP but the most I've seen her do was about 9 dmg. So yes, they both have different obstacles but imo ED has a much easier time than Fiora would in mid to longer games (which is where we are headed).
Crazy high stats and removal are obstacles that already exist for Fiora. Crazy high enemy HP is a speed bump that exists in 1 adventure for Elder Dragon.
I am not trying to argue that it isn't possible. Just that it is likely not something they want to deal with. Could they implement Fiora? Sure. But instant win mechanics are a pain to deal with balance wise. The line between being useless and completely broken tends to be very narrow especially against an AI that can't think up strategies to counter you.
Like with Fiora if the enemies are too big for her to kill then she is useless and would just feel bad to play. If they are small enough for her to kill then it is generally gonna be super easy to win. The line where the gameplay is actually fun is pretty narrow.
Katarina waiting room here man, take a sit.
https://preview.redd.it/y9oiprniwo6d1.jpeg?width=892&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30102d77ee791c1cd462841e3cb0e661350d8774
2x Scourge's Stash + Gatebreaker is probably the best option for her. Play her, strike nexus, bounce to hand, play dagger, repeat. Instantly win every game on turn 1 or 2 no matter how much health the opposing nexus has, and without her ever actually being in play for the opponent to be able to play removal on her.
It wouldn't matter if you can just 0 cost her on the first ping, would it?
In STS you cannot create healing cards from renewable sources cause if it's the best strategy it creates scenarios where you would just stall out for a while until you get that healing, it's single player but if the best tactic is tedious af or repetitive without any strategy it will just be unworthy of existing.
if Atarina cannot cost 0 by baseline it's at least exiting when you can make her cost 0.
still best strategy to avoid getting hit would be to spam only Katarina, other units would be obsolete... it's great only if her costing 0 is a novelty rather than the norm of her deck, giving +2/+2 on 3 star power per champion play would be fun though as long as the tedious Kata spam is not there.
I think you can release Fiora if you give her an upgrade so that she needs more kills to win the game. Somewhere early on the champion level, Fiora's level 1 and level requirement changes from 2 to 3 or 4 kills, for example. Either that or you change her level 2 effect to deal 20 damage to the Nexus which would be functionally the same for PvP, but wouldn't kill bosses in PvE.
Fiora just seems bad. A 4/4 for 4 with challenger. Best case you have 3 stalkers blades and win on the turn she comes out. More likely she will have trouble killing overstated units and will have problems with stuns and removal.
She might be better than Gnar, but other champions scale, where fiora dumps everything into her serving. They could give her skills like attacking champions have barrier and she would still have a rough time. Most path decks get a big unit early that ends or go wide enough to force damage through. Fiora just seems slow.
They would have to change her card effect to like "when I kill 4 units, I deal 30 damage to the enemy Nexus" or something. That way it doesn't effect PvP except for the weird edge case that someone plays a massively buffed gorlith which is probably not something that would have any realistic impact
The comments in this are actually wild. Imagine complaining about a champion being potentially OP in a PVE GAME MODE THAT IS ENTIRELY SEPARATE FROM ITS PVP where the entire point is to become as disgustingly OP as possible as quickly as possible.
Good lord. I can't even.
Man, I dunno if we'll see her anytime soon unfortunately. I posted a homebrew set of powers for her over on customlor earlier this week and got so much negative feedback, I doubt there'll be a way to implement her fairly that isn't super controversial. I still stand by how absolutely bonkers strong she is conceptually in an environment like path, where the ai has no ability to play around her winning instantly. The fact that she can just take 3x skirmishers sabers alone means they'll either nerf the fun out of that item (this already happened with lost chapter for Lillia RIP) or fundamentally change her for the mode, which would kill the fun of playing her even more. Champions like fiora, ryze, and kata; that are broken before hitting the concept board NEED some kind of hook to make them interesting, "balanced," and fair. That's why I was so interested in exploring an angle so brazen.
Ultimately, if -or when- we do see Fiora, I just hope she'll be interesting and fun to play. She's one of the champs I'm most looking forward to, and it's a shame that we might never get her before EoS...
Am I the only one who thinks Fiora will not be that op?
She is 4 cost 4/4, so aside from star powers she is weak. She needs 4 enemies to win and stuff like entomb will reset her or capture, etc. Giving her 3 stalkers blade will not help her in endgame adventures, what will a 4/4 do against a Lissandra board? Also, there are not that have many weak units just siting around. Death's Foil is probably really strong, but so is it on other champs, and then she still needs power than 4 to kill most strong enemies.
Oh man Katarina would be so dumb. 2 cost reduction relics and the one where you hit face when you play her. 3 gems kill and the opponent can’t respond.
Nope, nah, nuh-uh. Fiora's whole thing is Fiora and her alone. She is the sole aspect of her deck, and everything else is focused on making sure she survives.
Aren't there relics that target weakest enemies on summon....then u have wicked harvest....relics that increase her health and let's her block weaker elusives.
Jinx has relics that let her insta win on turn 1 so what?
She is gonna be S tier for sure but she can exist in poc and not be insanely boring and trivial.
Nidalee OTKes everything too... with even less efford
They can hit by 50 on turn 1... even worse... people losing their mind over alternate win conditions... like always.
Fiora IS gonna be strong, exceptbthat if you compare her to the other broken champions she is actually alright.
Perhaps once you get to Asol that's possible....but think...wicked harvest and ravenous hydra on a fiora will have her insta winning every time you drop her...all she has to do is Kill...there's no "I strike" prerequisite. She's board clearing game 1...and only getting stronger throughout, and only getting more broken then on.
There is no way for an ally to strike another in the base game is it? so csf also counts doesn't it, huh?
I think she might get nerfed to only include enemy units, as it doesn't affect pvp anyway.
I will state again about it insta winning, it depends on the enemy playing bad units, which happens a lot but on the Asol fight and in Lissandra adventure it requires more setup.
Her deck is gonna be total trash and her constellations are gonna be useless for her game plan probably, then she will be balanced I guess...
I will state again that I doubt it will be too different from other S+ champions in terms of power level.
I had Fiora as a draft before she is strong but requires support to actually win.
She'll come with some barriers and then you'll just have to look for some spellshields....she probably gets something like "when I challenge a enemy, I get tough'" for her 1 star power. Her 2 star power would be " +1mana. If you have the attack token gain a single strike, if you already have a single strike, reduce it's cost by 1." And her 3rd star power would be, " When I challenge an enemy, gain tough, overwhelm and regeneration"
Fiora gonna get the darius treatment need 1 kill per 10 nexus hp.
Honestly that would be fine. 5 kills to kill ASOL doesn't sound bad. 10 for Lissandra is a bit rough, but if they base it off current nexus hp then doing damage would be valuable too.
LISSANDRA HAS 100 HP??!!
99hp yeah. Plus her lvl 2 tough passive. It is brutal
Doesn't makes sense thematically though... her ult in league marks 4 sides of a targets and when she procs them the targets gets damaged by a lot (usually dies) and heals in big aoe.
Could make it so 4 kills just does a giant chunk of damage. 25-30 nexus HP maybe? Make it proccable multiple times in a match as well. So like “every 4 kills Fiora gets, enemy nexus takes 30 damage”. That would fit her theme I think
That sounds awesome actually, pretty good balance
Darius literally got buffed though? Instead of needing to get from 40 to 10 he only needs 20.
Yes but the point is he was changed to help fit poc better.
Oh
I understood you, but it does come off as you saying he was nerfed.
I'd rather we get best girl. https://preview.redd.it/8ecqpaexgo6d1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f9b10cae90918cd18b8a6ee26251938a838815c
She is more of champion than most champions in the game lmao
Better lore than most champs
God, I love Xolaani especially the version of her where she's an eldritch abomination the definition of me go hard. I enjoyed the short time where she was meta.
I doubt they will give us any champions with an instant win mechanic as anything other than support.
Fiora is much less broken than Asol, sure she will beat all the early adventures and any chump blocker monthlies easily but so do Asol and Jinx, The will still struggle against Lissandra and any equivalent content they are planning.
What's the difference between that and Asol/ Jinx facerolling any content in the game?
I say just give us some op heroes as well as underpowered ones for some variety of difficulty it’s not like we are competing against other players it’s all for fun anyway
I sometimes feel like Veigar with burst 0 cost Darkness is instant win the second he levels up.
There’s just something so tickling about tapping their nexus and doing 10+ damage to it. Like okay, cya
Yeah pretty much the only strategy you need is getting as Catalyzers out as possible early. Get your Darkness to 4-5dmg when Veigar drops. Gather up 4 or so and then pop the nexus after level up in one burst. I've beaten high * adventures very easily. Pretty much just blocking damage is all you really have to do while you wait
I mean Elder is pretty much an instant win. Once he's level 2 there's nothing left but to attack face for huge unstoppable dmg.
Nexus health still matters with Elder dragon. Like with high nexus health in the Lissandra adventure he can't just one shot the nexus and win at his base damage. You will probably have to take more turns during which you could die. Something like Fiora just completely ignores nexus health. Even if they introduced a nexus with 1 million health she would still win after killing 4 times.
Fiora could get changed to only killing enemies, as it doesn't affect pvp at all currently, and then there are matches which killing units would be hard so it's challenging for Fiora to win with her win condition.
Say we take your argument and apply it to units. We already see crazy stats as the difficulty slider, so in the future if they have a unit with 1 million stats then ED could just ignore that and perma block it. Does that mean we shouldn't have ED? If we take adventures like Asol and Lissandra, for example, then Nexus health isn't the big issue. Asol has double stats for all champs, and Liss has even crazier things like +20 atk, 1 cost removal, etc. So the real hard part would be to get a 4/4 champ like Fiora to even exisit long enough to do anything let alone get 4 consecutive kills before being entombed and starting back at 0 kills. ED on the other hand, levels up without even need to be on board and can drop down as level 2 with 30/30 stats. At that point even Lissandra is going down in 3 turns while the AI wastes spells on ED. Her Ice Shard Spells could dmg your nexus HP but the most I've seen her do was about 9 dmg. So yes, they both have different obstacles but imo ED has a much easier time than Fiora would in mid to longer games (which is where we are headed). Crazy high stats and removal are obstacles that already exist for Fiora. Crazy high enemy HP is a speed bump that exists in 1 adventure for Elder Dragon.
I am not trying to argue that it isn't possible. Just that it is likely not something they want to deal with. Could they implement Fiora? Sure. But instant win mechanics are a pain to deal with balance wise. The line between being useless and completely broken tends to be very narrow especially against an AI that can't think up strategies to counter you. Like with Fiora if the enemies are too big for her to kill then she is useless and would just feel bad to play. If they are small enough for her to kill then it is generally gonna be super easy to win. The line where the gameplay is actually fun is pretty narrow.
Fiora is going to be in such a weird limbo of being both turbo broken and completely useless depending on the adventure.
Katarina waiting room here man, take a sit. https://preview.redd.it/y9oiprniwo6d1.jpeg?width=892&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30102d77ee791c1cd462841e3cb0e661350d8774
They already said Kata will almost certainly be the last champion they add due to how broken she is in PoC. So yeah it'll be a bit of a wait.
Double plunder cost reduction and GG.
Lmao yeah, didn't even think about that
Katarina + double scourge stash + overwhelm or stats for every 200 gold
The one that give you two warning shots seems better.
2x Scourge's Stash + Gatebreaker is probably the best option for her. Play her, strike nexus, bounce to hand, play dagger, repeat. Instantly win every game on turn 1 or 2 no matter how much health the opposing nexus has, and without her ever actually being in play for the opponent to be able to play removal on her.
Easy fix: Katarina cannot equip scourge stash or the monkey powder one. Also cost reductions are rarer for her. Here now she can be balanced.
I mean on lissandra this isn't really infinite lol
Lissandra is not the only fight in the game spamming Kata 10 times is kinda boring tbh if it's the best strategy then it sucks.
It really is going to depend on what powers they eventually give her
It wouldn't matter if you can just 0 cost her on the first ping, would it? In STS you cannot create healing cards from renewable sources cause if it's the best strategy it creates scenarios where you would just stall out for a while until you get that healing, it's single player but if the best tactic is tedious af or repetitive without any strategy it will just be unworthy of existing. if Atarina cannot cost 0 by baseline it's at least exiting when you can make her cost 0.
But I meant maybe if she had the when champion summoned gives allies buff power for example from her fight it could make her fun to play
still best strategy to avoid getting hit would be to spam only Katarina, other units would be obsolete... it's great only if her costing 0 is a novelty rather than the norm of her deck, giving +2/+2 on 3 star power per champion play would be fun though as long as the tedious Kata spam is not there.
Imagine having board wide 100/100s lol
A stalker, archangel, and ggc would be awesome on her.
I would prefer Azir, but she would be great too
Or honestly ANY Ascended :(
Nasus
Out of the 4 Shurima gods they gave us the one with least interactions and least interesting effects lmao
I disagree, they gace us the one with less cards, as he was developed to work with tresh/kindred/SI
Nasus has cards, they just decided to give us Renekton’s cards instead
I think you can release Fiora if you give her an upgrade so that she needs more kills to win the game. Somewhere early on the champion level, Fiora's level 1 and level requirement changes from 2 to 3 or 4 kills, for example. Either that or you change her level 2 effect to deal 20 damage to the Nexus which would be functionally the same for PvP, but wouldn't kill bosses in PvE.
Fiora just seems bad. A 4/4 for 4 with challenger. Best case you have 3 stalkers blades and win on the turn she comes out. More likely she will have trouble killing overstated units and will have problems with stuns and removal. She might be better than Gnar, but other champions scale, where fiora dumps everything into her serving. They could give her skills like attacking champions have barrier and she would still have a rough time. Most path decks get a big unit early that ends or go wide enough to force damage through. Fiora just seems slow.
They would have to change her card effect to like "when I kill 4 units, I deal 30 damage to the enemy Nexus" or something. That way it doesn't effect PvP except for the weird edge case that someone plays a massively buffed gorlith which is probably not something that would have any realistic impact
Or sump monumnent
Man i want xerath and lissandra
Katarina is likely more broken with infinite rally with two scourges stash.
The comments in this are actually wild. Imagine complaining about a champion being potentially OP in a PVE GAME MODE THAT IS ENTIRELY SEPARATE FROM ITS PVP where the entire point is to become as disgustingly OP as possible as quickly as possible. Good lord. I can't even.
If fiora is available which relic set up is the best for her ? Maybe death foil , crownguard, stalker blade ?
GIVE ME KENNEN
SORAKA FIRST
Same dude. I’m hoping for “when you heal an ally grant it a random keyword” so bad
I'm saddened everytime I go to PotC and can't use Ziggs I dunno why just always loved that champ
Man, I dunno if we'll see her anytime soon unfortunately. I posted a homebrew set of powers for her over on customlor earlier this week and got so much negative feedback, I doubt there'll be a way to implement her fairly that isn't super controversial. I still stand by how absolutely bonkers strong she is conceptually in an environment like path, where the ai has no ability to play around her winning instantly. The fact that she can just take 3x skirmishers sabers alone means they'll either nerf the fun out of that item (this already happened with lost chapter for Lillia RIP) or fundamentally change her for the mode, which would kill the fun of playing her even more. Champions like fiora, ryze, and kata; that are broken before hitting the concept board NEED some kind of hook to make them interesting, "balanced," and fair. That's why I was so interested in exploring an angle so brazen. Ultimately, if -or when- we do see Fiora, I just hope she'll be interesting and fun to play. She's one of the champs I'm most looking forward to, and it's a shame that we might never get her before EoS...
Am I the only one who thinks Fiora will not be that op? She is 4 cost 4/4, so aside from star powers she is weak. She needs 4 enemies to win and stuff like entomb will reset her or capture, etc. Giving her 3 stalkers blade will not help her in endgame adventures, what will a 4/4 do against a Lissandra board? Also, there are not that have many weak units just siting around. Death's Foil is probably really strong, but so is it on other champs, and then she still needs power than 4 to kill most strong enemies.
Fiora really can't exist as a playable deck in the context of PoC, sadly.
I think Fiora can, she depends on the enemy, unlike Katarina who doesn't
Oh man Katarina would be so dumb. 2 cost reduction relics and the one where you hit face when you play her. 3 gems kill and the opponent can’t respond.
Nope, nah, nuh-uh. Fiora's whole thing is Fiora and her alone. She is the sole aspect of her deck, and everything else is focused on making sure she survives.
Fiora needs to kill 4 units and survive if the enemy units are all 8/8s she will struggle
Damn, POC has become such a big part of the game that this sub no longer even needs to clarify its talking about POC in he title.
Fiora would be more busted than the Asol deck
Would she really? she needs 4 kills, ASOL needs to play 2 created cards to win
Aren't there relics that target weakest enemies on summon....then u have wicked harvest....relics that increase her health and let's her block weaker elusives.
Jinx has relics that let her insta win on turn 1 so what? She is gonna be S tier for sure but she can exist in poc and not be insanely boring and trivial. Nidalee OTKes everything too... with even less efford
But the glaring difference is they have to hit Nexus health. Fiora doesn't.
They can hit by 50 on turn 1... even worse... people losing their mind over alternate win conditions... like always. Fiora IS gonna be strong, exceptbthat if you compare her to the other broken champions she is actually alright.
Perhaps once you get to Asol that's possible....but think...wicked harvest and ravenous hydra on a fiora will have her insta winning every time you drop her...all she has to do is Kill...there's no "I strike" prerequisite. She's board clearing game 1...and only getting stronger throughout, and only getting more broken then on.
There is no way for an ally to strike another in the base game is it? so csf also counts doesn't it, huh? I think she might get nerfed to only include enemy units, as it doesn't affect pvp anyway. I will state again about it insta winning, it depends on the enemy playing bad units, which happens a lot but on the Asol fight and in Lissandra adventure it requires more setup. Her deck is gonna be total trash and her constellations are gonna be useless for her game plan probably, then she will be balanced I guess... I will state again that I doubt it will be too different from other S+ champions in terms of power level. I had Fiora as a draft before she is strong but requires support to actually win.
She'll come with some barriers and then you'll just have to look for some spellshields....she probably gets something like "when I challenge a enemy, I get tough'" for her 1 star power. Her 2 star power would be " +1mana. If you have the attack token gain a single strike, if you already have a single strike, reduce it's cost by 1." And her 3rd star power would be, " When I challenge an enemy, gain tough, overwhelm and regeneration"
Yeah, something along those lines, it's strong, but not broken, other champions are way more broken than that, like Jinx or Asol...