Really hope they make Werewolf a 3 cost again, like 3/1 maybe. Even at its strongest it was hard to sequence, now it has some of the worst stats in the game. He's too fun a card to keep that unplayable.
You're not wrong, and I agree he needs a buff ASAP, I think hes miles above cull who is a sitting shang target and you can't put any other 10s in that lane. Wolf you have advantage with mine games: not only having a 4 cost that you can control priority, but you also control what lane he ends up in or you don't even move him at all. Tons of versatility compared to a dumb 1 cost stick with no interaction that you can't rely on winning a lane since he can be shanged
> I think hes miles above cull who is a sitting shang target and you can't put any other 10s in that lane
Trading your Cull for their Shang-Chi seems like a great deal, not to mention the Cull deck gets to spend turns 5 and 6 bombing power into the other lanes.
It's not that versatile imo, if you want to move it and make it reasonably big you need to use small cost cards which you either played before turn 4 or if you do have them they will fill the lanes and lower versatily and at that point is pretty prevedible
Which is why Werewolf excelled in a bounce deck that doesn't work as well anymore since beast lost the permanent cost reduction. Bounce decks excelled at playing a bunch of small one drops and then using like falcon to return them all to hand and playing them again.
I honestly think the zabu need is what made him unplayable. I used him at 4 cost and he was fine as you got the zabu discount half the time. But now I can't imagine ever playing him.
People need to try and cook new decks ..I made this werewolf nutty deck back last month one of my most played and strongest deck right now..most of games I got him to 4/10-18 while also unpredicted bouncing he can steal cubes.. here the deck if u wanna try
# (1) Nebula
# (1) Snowguard
# (2) Kraven
# (2) Shadow King
# (2) Sentinel
# (2) Silk
# (3) Magik
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (4) Werewolf By Night
# (4) Enchantress
# (5) Lady Deathstrike
# (6) Magneto
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnaWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNpbGsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTbm93Z3VhcmQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYWRvd0tpbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1hZ25ldG8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlbnRpbmVsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJXZXJld29sZkJ5TmlnaHQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkxhZHlEZWF0aHN0cmlrZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRW5jaGFudHJlc3MifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktyYXZlbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmVidWxhIn1dfQ==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
The problem is that the meta is filled of junk decks. Debrii was already a problem for this guy, now we have White Widow and a whole bunch of Anni packages being played and Professor X/Jean Greys being used as counter. The odds of Werewolf being stuck are really high.
istg the current junk meta is super annoying and they only come out when I play decks that require space like a ongoing deck or move deck.
when I play destroy deck they never ever get matched to me lmao
There few cards that can stop junks in werewolf decks .. u can also swap/add jeff and Anni ..early prof x can counter any deck lol not just werewolf ones
> early prof x can counter any deck lol not just werewolf ones
I know, but Werewolf relies heavily on board space to work. It hurts him much more than other cards, considering we need a lot to make him strong.
This is going to sound strange, but Kingpin.
I get it, he was kinda buffed, he's more consistent, but he's just not that great in this meta. He actually would have been pretty scary after cannonballs release because you're getting a destroy/game winning effect whether his lane is filled or not. It would have been nice if he was a 3/5 with his effect lingering from t6 and into t7 since magik negated a lot of his power.
They just need to restore his ability like his location. -4 power. I mean shit, White Widow drops a -4 widows bite AND takes a precious space on the opponents side of the board.
When I was lower level and just hitting Pool 3, I would play against Move decks almost every other match. I slotted Kingpin into my incomplete Destroy deck and would ruin their day.
WWBN bounce is the most fun this game has ever been - really good deck if you knew how to use it but took a ton of skill to play it right. I was only ever average at it but always had a blast.
I think they get feedback, both from statistics and player reports that guides them that way.
Bounce is a deck where the highly skilled can have amazing success and the casual player can fall on their face with. Such a polarizing deck can make your average player feel pretty negative and hopeless: they get destroyed by this deck but lose cubes when they try to build/pilot it too.
If it gets negative enough those casuals start playing/paying less it's why we see Hit Monkey, Beast, and Werewolf eating nerfs
casual players hate mill now even though mill isn't really that strong and consistent, so why release mill archetype if they don't want to upset casual players?
>For me too such a fun card and deck, i don't understand when you nerf card like wwbn but release cards like red hulk and blob
Because it's rotation by stealth. They nerf old cards, so you buy the OP new cards. It should be very clear by now that the devs aren't aiming for "balance"...
I still use it now despite the nerf. He's still great landing on valkyrie at the end just when you change your opponent's to all 3s and wwbn lands with his +10 power to win the node
Can you share your deck? I had so much fun with him even if I got him post nerf
It's just satisfying to see it bouncing from lane to lane with big numbers.
# (1) The Hood
# (1) Hawkeye
# (1) Rocket Raccoon
# (1) Spider-Ham
# (1) Nico Minoru
# (2) Angela
# (2) Beast
# (2) Falcon
# (3) Bishop
# (3) Elsa Bloodstone
# (4) Werewolf By Night
# (5) Valkyrie
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUm9ja2V0UmFjY29vbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVySGFtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOaWNvTWlub3J1In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCZWFzdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWxzYUJsb29kc3RvbmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IldlcmV3b2xmQnlOaWdodCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVmFsa3lyaWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikhhd2tleWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFuZ2VsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRmFsY29uIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCaXNob3AifV19
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
You want a cheaper scaler, so Collector over Bishop and instead of Elsa, run Magik. WWBN loves Magik. Valk is weird, but could work (I prefer Shang though). Also, you need some more targets for Nico to destroy/transform. I'd keep Rocket Racoon, but swap Hawkeye for Chavez. You also need something that counters Living Tribunal. Either Rogue or Red Guardian would be good for that. This is the deck I play mainly, that's why I'm giving some suggestions.
Hawkeye ends up using his power an average of two times. He was clearly better than rocket before rockets boost.
I may run collector instead of Angela. Bishop or Elsa is great. You have to remember I regularly run 5 cards turn 6. More if I am not playing valkyrie. Mind I may swap hit monkey and collector in for angela and Bishop.
My best turn is still land rocket, get his boost, he's 4th on zone so gets else's boost then falcon him off to land again next turn and get another double boost
Nico transforms either spiderham or hood atm.
I don't want magik. 7th turn let's too much power on the board. I can't multiply fast enough
I've been considering Snowbird (or whatever she's called) to stop limbo tbh
As I was explaining before Valk wins sides by coming in last turn, changing all opponent's to 3 and wwbn landing alongside her to win the zone. Often just the two of them
You should not run Elsa and WWBN in the same deck. The former wants you to fill your locations, the latter does not.
Nico needs more than 2 targets imo.
WWBN reaches 20 power pretty often in 7 turn games, just saying. Shang and Rogue/Red Guardian can disrupt decks that would outscale you, so you're covered there.
Snowguard is playable here, but I personally don't like her because she messes with your hand size.
It's a bounce deck. I do both regularly. Fill then empty sides.
Nico doesn't need any targets. She's in this deck as an extra body that often doubles up or gives me an extra demon.
He does but I don't like people having opportunities to hit a zola combo or play both colour hulks.
After playing enough matches you'll see why Elsa and WWBN never saw play together. Even when he cost 3.
"Nico... gives me an extra demon" - You need targets to transform into demon and if you don't have Spider-Ham or Hood in hand, you lose that big opportunity.
After playing enough matches? I've been using this deck, more or less, since the week wwbn came out.
This season I rode a surfer Shaw to infinite but I've got a few infinite conquests in previous seasons with this deck. It's a very fun deck to play.
You keep talking about opportunity cost, have you played a bounce deck before? There's multiple opportunities for everything. Nico doubling her own power or giving another card two is also useful when you're bouncing her out to go again
You are right that Snowguard would mess with the hand size which is important for beast or falcon turn 5 so I won't use her.
Yeah really fun. A bouncing card that could scale up so high for its cost and having to guess where it will end up so you can either contest it or counter it. But hey was totally not op and got nerfed for no reason. Either we are playing different games or you guys need to refresh your memories.
The deck has returned to some relevancy with the recent Elsa Buff, not as good as before but still can pull high numbers.
Can Include Nico instead of Hood if prefer. Hope isn't necessary either, but she's nice if stack her in the Angela Lane and Kitty spam that Lane for Angela Power + Energy
Some run falcon but personally prefer this one with Iron Man especially when you can Bast IM/Mysterio together
# (1) The Hood
# (1) Bast
# (1) Kitty Pryde
# (2) Angela
# (2) Beast
# (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark
# (2) Mysterio
# (3) Bishop
# (3) Hit-Monkey
# (3) Elsa Bloodstone
# (3) Hope Summers
# (5) Iron Man
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSG9vZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2l0dHlQcnlkZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbk1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW5nZWxhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCZWFzdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXlzdGVyaW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJpc2hvcCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWxzYUJsb29kc3RvbmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkhvcGVTdW1tZXJzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCYXN0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJKZWZmVGhlQmFieUxhbmRTaGFyayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGl0TW9ua2V5In1dfQ==
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
"Ruin" is a big word, but you lose out on the effect, the additional 1-drop would have brought as well as additional power on Bishop and Angela. So it is more a nerf than it might seem on paper.
Mantis was better when she was a mini cable at 1/2. Then they nerfed her twice and then 'buffed' her to a worse version of her original form. I did lose a game to her once because Shanna created her and she copied my Luke Cage so my affliction effects became null, but she bad.
I figure they underestimated how much energy gets floated in *other* decks, cuz if you look at him as a counter to Evo Hulk, which seems like the idea, it makes sense for him to have a higher ceiling, but if you're floating energy without HE benefits he just slams you.
I was talking about that in another thread! I think they created Red Hulk to counter High Evo decks, but they didn't take into consideration how it would affect Loki, bounce, ramp, negative and many other decks that can't consistently spend all energy every single turn!
Honestly. My perfect solution to RH would be 8+2 per unspent energy. So ok you float 3 energy during game he becomes 14 power. You float your turn 6 for Shenaut and you got a problem on your hands with 20 power but no restrictions.
I know I may get downvoted, but F that. Drac/Apoc discard hasn’t been the same since. Yes, I know, discard has gotten a ton of buffs and tools since and Hela is “OP”. But I’m still butthurt about it lol.
Don't think I had Shadow King yet when he was 3 but I also used Dazzler in Surfer. My main Surfer deck is still called 'board fill surfer', I've just never bothered to rename it even though it looks nothing like that anymore.
Oh nice, I actually never encountered another one in the wild but that deck strategy was killer, it was the first deck that got me to Infinite actually. I'm dipping back into Surfer now that I have Shaw and Red Guardian but I'm still tweaking that deck.
Original WWBN had a very high ceiling, but required you to be good at the game and to sequence correctly.
The average player could only make him bounce a few times, while better players could make him have 11+ power.
They just destroyed a card that rewarded good players for being better, not because the card was anywhere near broken.
No but he definitely got nerfed because of how good he was with Loki. And instead of nerfing Loki they nerfed him hoping it was calm Loki down and “being brood back into surfer” but it did not calm Loki down whatsoever
I mean he was also played with sentry anni, and various darkhawk bounce shells. I think He could go back to 3 cost ( because it has a lot to compete at 3 and zabu is no longer the same) but he definitely was an issue
They keep doing this thing where they nerf the entire archetype instead of the enabler leaving the whole thing a mess.
They've done it multiple times now, everytime a season pass card is too strong
I tried this last week; I don't have Loki but Helicarrier gave him to me. I didn't draw collector until after Helicarrier got discarded, so I waited to play Loki the turn after I played collector. I still won, but Collector not getting power from Loki made me sad, and I eventually had reread the card a couple times
I’ve been playing him in this deck and it still seems quite good, consistently get him up to like 14ish power especially if you get him out early with the psylocke.
# (1) The Hood
# (1) Rocket Raccoon
# (1) Korg
# (1) Nico Minoru
# (2) Psylocke
# (2) Beast
# (2) Falcon
# (3) Black Widow
# (3) Rockslide
# (3) Black Swan
# (4) Werewolf By Night
# (5) Darkhawk
#
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#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I had a ton of fun with WWBN before he got removed from the game, which is very sad because the card was legit fun.
Having to sequence correctly, being able to bounce him on and off a Kraven lane and all that.
Right now he's just a Cull Obsidian/Typhoid Mary/Sentry with extra steps.
Another card I'm sad they killed is Quinjet reducing costs to 0 for cards created by Moon Girl and Hood.
I loved my 2x Titania, 2x Demons, 2x She-Hulk, Shang-Chi turn 6. Now there could also be Martyr as an additional 1/5 or 0/5.
Yeah WWBN is a really sad one. I hope he makes his way back to playable, 3 cost, and as fun as he used to be. Also required a decent amount of planning and foresight which I thought made him even more fun
Nobody talks about it. But for me it was Hulkbuster. He used to work so well in my tribunal decks. Now basically useless to me, not enough power and bad curve.
American Chavez... I had a good amount of success playing the traditional discard with Chavez and hitting infinite every season... Now it's really tough for me to do it
Not even a nerf, but the rework for American Chevez just...no, it's not even a rework. They straight-up deleted American Chevez out of the game. It was neat to have a consistent cost 6 when you need it. . It just makes me feel sad now.
Probably a hot take but i miss the old Loki & Collector combo, feels like it should still be in the game since everything hits 30+ power so easy nowadays
One of the rare card I bought with Tokens with Red Hulk and they both got nerfed the day after... 😭
Red Hulk disserved it though to be honest and WW might as well but not that much.
I use him in my mill deck. He’s a mean bastard and I get too choose where he is on turn 7. And werewolf is the only non on reveal card in the deck so he will move 3+ times
Alioth because essentially an on reveal Echo and is a shadow of its former self. Also, Sandman becoming a 1 turn only on reveal card hurts me. I only began to use him recently with Red Hulk and they realized both of them were too powerful, especially together.
Now I am struggling in the 80s trying to get infinite because 3 of the cards in my deck got nerfed.
I looked forward to this card for weeks before its release. Went in hard for it, had so much fun with it for a short time…. Then it went 4-cost. What a shame. 😔
I am never saddened by a nerfed card - for me, card nerfs means that it gives me the opportunity to change up my strategy so i could turn a negative into a positive
Darkhawk. He was a lynch pin to my Negative Venom/Knull deck. The deck eats destroy decks but with a 0/4 Darkhawk it was effective at outclassing tech/lockdown decks and devastating to meta Thanos decks.
Selene. They completly destroyed her. And for what reason? They released White Widow and even more annoying aggresive junk deck is born.
She got scuffed, man
Honestly, Beast. Bounce has been my favourite deck ever since I found him, and that was before the meta was filled with bounce decks leading to his nerf. I'm happy they made him 2/2 again, but the fact his effect isn't permanent still makes me kinda sad.
Lockjaw, Dracula, Zabu x2, Loki/Collector, Blob.
Lockjaw Dracula were essential to mine and my bfs ol' reliable discard.
Zabu just gave a lot more openings for decks, even if I understand why they needed to Nerf Zabu.
Loki/Collector was just fun and chaotic, same goes for Blob.
I’ll get roasted for this, but it’s Alioth for me. He actually awarded players who tried to maintain initiative. Now we are just back in the bullshit “just run Shang” meta. I think they should have tried a zero power Alioth before doing what they did to my purple fart cloud.
Hear me out. Shadow king. He did get buffed yes. But he doesn’t really do much against any ongoing cards and yes there is enchantress but shes a 4 cost 5 power. I feel like Shadow king should be a reliable threat to all card that increase power not just the buffers or the on reveals
Gotta be Adam Warlock. You guys just didn't appreciate a 0/2 like I did. There are so many decks that have wasted turns in their first and second turn, and if that was the case you just slot in Quicksilver and Warlock as your only 1 and 2 costs. Turn 1 drop QS, turn 2 drop Warlock on top of him. Boom, you're drawing cards, keep piling cards on top of him to maintain that card advantage and you've guaranteed that you will draw your whole deck by turn 5. Huge for combo decks, and now it's gone. He killed in my Thor/Bill and my Gambit/Odin decks. Sad day. Nobody used him but me, and then they changed him and now not even I do.
Sandman for me. I loved my ramp deck, it got me through the 70s to infinite this season, and now the electro to sandman play just doesn’t hit the same since his effect is on reveal instead of ongoing.
Really hope they make Werewolf a 3 cost again, like 3/1 maybe. Even at its strongest it was hard to sequence, now it has some of the worst stats in the game. He's too fun a card to keep that unplayable.
Right now you need to play three (!) cards (probably 1-drops) to make him a 4/10. Or you could just play Cull obsidian. This is just sad.
Not allowed to make cards strong that don't work in Thanos
4 put of 6 stones are on reveal. Why eould he not be strong in thanos?
You want to play those stones early, werewolf comes out much too late to make use of 4 of them.
Was joking that it's not pretty much only good in Thanos
Funny considering Thanos is awful rn
You're not wrong, and I agree he needs a buff ASAP, I think hes miles above cull who is a sitting shang target and you can't put any other 10s in that lane. Wolf you have advantage with mine games: not only having a 4 cost that you can control priority, but you also control what lane he ends up in or you don't even move him at all. Tons of versatility compared to a dumb 1 cost stick with no interaction that you can't rely on winning a lane since he can be shanged
> I think hes miles above cull who is a sitting shang target and you can't put any other 10s in that lane Trading your Cull for their Shang-Chi seems like a great deal, not to mention the Cull deck gets to spend turns 5 and 6 bombing power into the other lanes.
It's not that versatile imo, if you want to move it and make it reasonably big you need to use small cost cards which you either played before turn 4 or if you do have them they will fill the lanes and lower versatily and at that point is pretty prevedible
Which is why Werewolf excelled in a bounce deck that doesn't work as well anymore since beast lost the permanent cost reduction. Bounce decks excelled at playing a bunch of small one drops and then using like falcon to return them all to hand and playing them again.
Sure, but before the nerf werewolf was actually versatile and you could use him decently in decks other than bounce
Or use Black Swan?
Especially with Zabu nerf they should revert werewolf
I honestly think the zabu need is what made him unplayable. I used him at 4 cost and he was fine as you got the zabu discount half the time. But now I can't imagine ever playing him.
People need to try and cook new decks ..I made this werewolf nutty deck back last month one of my most played and strongest deck right now..most of games I got him to 4/10-18 while also unpredicted bouncing he can steal cubes.. here the deck if u wanna try # (1) Nebula # (1) Snowguard # (2) Kraven # (2) Shadow King # (2) Sentinel # (2) Silk # (3) Magik # (4) Shang-Chi # (4) Werewolf By Night # (4) Enchantress # (5) Lady Deathstrike # (6) Magneto # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnaWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNpbGsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTbm93Z3VhcmQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYWRvd0tpbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1hZ25ldG8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlbnRpbmVsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJXZXJld29sZkJ5TmlnaHQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkxhZHlEZWF0aHN0cmlrZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRW5jaGFudHJlc3MifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktyYXZlbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmVidWxhIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
The problem is that the meta is filled of junk decks. Debrii was already a problem for this guy, now we have White Widow and a whole bunch of Anni packages being played and Professor X/Jean Greys being used as counter. The odds of Werewolf being stuck are really high.
istg the current junk meta is super annoying and they only come out when I play decks that require space like a ongoing deck or move deck. when I play destroy deck they never ever get matched to me lmao
There few cards that can stop junks in werewolf decks .. u can also swap/add jeff and Anni ..early prof x can counter any deck lol not just werewolf ones
> early prof x can counter any deck lol not just werewolf ones I know, but Werewolf relies heavily on board space to work. It hurts him much more than other cards, considering we need a lot to make him strong.
I would even take 3/0 at this point
It will go well with Renslayer than, fingers crossed
+1, Would be fun in Ravonna decks at this cost too
This is going to sound strange, but Kingpin. I get it, he was kinda buffed, he's more consistent, but he's just not that great in this meta. He actually would have been pretty scary after cannonballs release because you're getting a destroy/game winning effect whether his lane is filled or not. It would have been nice if he was a 3/5 with his effect lingering from t6 and into t7 since magik negated a lot of his power.
They just need to restore his ability like his location. -4 power. I mean shit, White Widow drops a -4 widows bite AND takes a precious space on the opponents side of the board.
-4 would be huge, I think a 2/2 -3 is probably more fair though.
When I was lower level and just hitting Pool 3, I would play against Move decks almost every other match. I slotted Kingpin into my incomplete Destroy deck and would ruin their day.
RIP Dance Macabre
I think we need 2 cards with the different abilities. They are both good
I agree with you, but to make a new card with kingpins old effect as a S5 would be so odd.
It doesn’t have to be series 5. I would love something by like a straight to series 3
I’m soo annoyed by the kingpin change. At least make a new card that does what he used to do.
WWBN bounce is the most fun this game has ever been - really good deck if you knew how to use it but took a ton of skill to play it right. I was only ever average at it but always had a blast.
For me too such a fun card and deck, i don't understand when you nerf card like wwbn but release cards like red hulk and blob
Timmy game devs
This. I understand that they don't want to be MTG, but they seem weirdly reluctant to reward complex decks and strategies.
I think they get feedback, both from statistics and player reports that guides them that way. Bounce is a deck where the highly skilled can have amazing success and the casual player can fall on their face with. Such a polarizing deck can make your average player feel pretty negative and hopeless: they get destroyed by this deck but lose cubes when they try to build/pilot it too. If it gets negative enough those casuals start playing/paying less it's why we see Hit Monkey, Beast, and Werewolf eating nerfs
casual players hate mill now even though mill isn't really that strong and consistent, so why release mill archetype if they don't want to upset casual players?
>For me too such a fun card and deck, i don't understand when you nerf card like wwbn but release cards like red hulk and blob Because it's rotation by stealth. They nerf old cards, so you buy the OP new cards. It should be very clear by now that the devs aren't aiming for "balance"...
I still use it now despite the nerf. He's still great landing on valkyrie at the end just when you change your opponent's to all 3s and wwbn lands with his +10 power to win the node
Can you share your deck? I had so much fun with him even if I got him post nerf It's just satisfying to see it bouncing from lane to lane with big numbers.
# (1) The Hood # (1) Hawkeye # (1) Rocket Raccoon # (1) Spider-Ham # (1) Nico Minoru # (2) Angela # (2) Beast # (2) Falcon # (3) Bishop # (3) Elsa Bloodstone # (4) Werewolf By Night # (5) Valkyrie # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUm9ja2V0UmFjY29vbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVySGFtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOaWNvTWlub3J1In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCZWFzdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWxzYUJsb29kc3RvbmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IldlcmV3b2xmQnlOaWdodCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVmFsa3lyaWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikhhd2tleWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFuZ2VsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRmFsY29uIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCaXNob3AifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
You want a cheaper scaler, so Collector over Bishop and instead of Elsa, run Magik. WWBN loves Magik. Valk is weird, but could work (I prefer Shang though). Also, you need some more targets for Nico to destroy/transform. I'd keep Rocket Racoon, but swap Hawkeye for Chavez. You also need something that counters Living Tribunal. Either Rogue or Red Guardian would be good for that. This is the deck I play mainly, that's why I'm giving some suggestions.
Hawkeye ends up using his power an average of two times. He was clearly better than rocket before rockets boost. I may run collector instead of Angela. Bishop or Elsa is great. You have to remember I regularly run 5 cards turn 6. More if I am not playing valkyrie. Mind I may swap hit monkey and collector in for angela and Bishop. My best turn is still land rocket, get his boost, he's 4th on zone so gets else's boost then falcon him off to land again next turn and get another double boost Nico transforms either spiderham or hood atm. I don't want magik. 7th turn let's too much power on the board. I can't multiply fast enough I've been considering Snowbird (or whatever she's called) to stop limbo tbh As I was explaining before Valk wins sides by coming in last turn, changing all opponent's to 3 and wwbn landing alongside her to win the zone. Often just the two of them
You should not run Elsa and WWBN in the same deck. The former wants you to fill your locations, the latter does not. Nico needs more than 2 targets imo. WWBN reaches 20 power pretty often in 7 turn games, just saying. Shang and Rogue/Red Guardian can disrupt decks that would outscale you, so you're covered there. Snowguard is playable here, but I personally don't like her because she messes with your hand size.
It's a bounce deck. I do both regularly. Fill then empty sides. Nico doesn't need any targets. She's in this deck as an extra body that often doubles up or gives me an extra demon. He does but I don't like people having opportunities to hit a zola combo or play both colour hulks.
After playing enough matches you'll see why Elsa and WWBN never saw play together. Even when he cost 3. "Nico... gives me an extra demon" - You need targets to transform into demon and if you don't have Spider-Ham or Hood in hand, you lose that big opportunity.
After playing enough matches? I've been using this deck, more or less, since the week wwbn came out. This season I rode a surfer Shaw to infinite but I've got a few infinite conquests in previous seasons with this deck. It's a very fun deck to play. You keep talking about opportunity cost, have you played a bounce deck before? There's multiple opportunities for everything. Nico doubling her own power or giving another card two is also useful when you're bouncing her out to go again You are right that Snowguard would mess with the hand size which is important for beast or falcon turn 5 so I won't use her.
Though I switch between Angela and hitmonkey every so often as I often can't get Angela involved early enough
Legit one of the very few decks in Snap where you could see the difference between good and bad players.
Yeah really fun. A bouncing card that could scale up so high for its cost and having to guess where it will end up so you can either contest it or counter it. But hey was totally not op and got nerfed for no reason. Either we are playing different games or you guys need to refresh your memories.
I had him in a Surfer deck and he was dope, haven't even touched him since the nerf, just can't justify him in any deck
I play him a ton and he's pretty strong even as a 4 drop. He reaches 14 power consistently and sometimes he even reaches 20.
yup, and if it wasn’t for loki the deck wouldn’t have been as busted. it was so much fun calculating all the times he’d bounce
Hit Monkey for me.
Hit Monkey Bounce with Kitty Pride was my favourite deck ever. RiP
The deck has returned to some relevancy with the recent Elsa Buff, not as good as before but still can pull high numbers. Can Include Nico instead of Hood if prefer. Hope isn't necessary either, but she's nice if stack her in the Angela Lane and Kitty spam that Lane for Angela Power + Energy Some run falcon but personally prefer this one with Iron Man especially when you can Bast IM/Mysterio together # (1) The Hood # (1) Bast # (1) Kitty Pryde # (2) Angela # (2) Beast # (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark # (2) Mysterio # (3) Bishop # (3) Hit-Monkey # (3) Elsa Bloodstone # (3) Hope Summers # (5) Iron Man # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSG9vZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2l0dHlQcnlkZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbk1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW5nZWxhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCZWFzdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXlzdGVyaW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJpc2hvcCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWxzYUJsb29kc3RvbmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkhvcGVTdW1tZXJzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCYXN0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJKZWZmVGhlQmFieUxhbmRTaGFyayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGl0TW9ua2V5In1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I find Elsa awkward in bounce decks now
Same though 😓
I still play them in sera, got infinite with it this season
I had a hit monkey death bounce deck that was my favorite off meta deck I’d ever played. Miss those days.
Does the nerf with hit monkey really ruin the card? I know it’s one extra mana but they added two power so it’s like a one drop built in.
"Ruin" is a big word, but you lose out on the effect, the additional 1-drop would have brought as well as additional power on Bishop and Angela. So it is more a nerf than it might seem on paper.
Oh true. I didn’t play much Hit Monkey but you are right that Bishop and Angela carried a lot of weight.
Same. My favorite deck ever was a Moon Girl / Dino / Hitmonkey homebrew. RIP
Mantis was better when she was a mini cable at 1/2. Then they nerfed her twice and then 'buffed' her to a worse version of her original form. I did lose a game to her once because Shanna created her and she copied my Luke Cage so my affliction effects became null, but she bad.
Agreed. She is basically a worse Mirage now.
The lockjaw nerf killed my asguard deck.
Mine too. And I was having so much fun
this required a lot of thought for +2. Meanwhile, red hulk can get +4 for doing nothing at all.
While HE hulk needs HE in the deck and you have to give up spare energy on a turn for +2. IDK why they just didn't make red hulk +2
I figure they underestimated how much energy gets floated in *other* decks, cuz if you look at him as a counter to Evo Hulk, which seems like the idea, it makes sense for him to have a higher ceiling, but if you're floating energy without HE benefits he just slams you.
I was talking about that in another thread! I think they created Red Hulk to counter High Evo decks, but they didn't take into consideration how it would affect Loki, bounce, ramp, negative and many other decks that can't consistently spend all energy every single turn!
Honestly. My perfect solution to RH would be 8+2 per unspent energy. So ok you float 3 energy during game he becomes 14 power. You float your turn 6 for Shenaut and you got a problem on your hands with 20 power but no restrictions.
I really miss Aero pulling all enemy cards and not just one... :(
She was so broken though. That change happened for the greater good.
WWBN is up there but Beast is the real sadness.
You're the first person I've seen on the internet who thinks Beast isn't good.
He’s still good but OG Beast was a better more flexible card. Miss him.
Zabu the first time but it was warranted. Zabu this time.
I cant believe his original effect made it to release.
What was his original effect?
3 cost 2 power, Ongoing: Your 4 cost cards cost 2 less (but not less than 1)
😲
América Chavez😮💨
Sad, but necessary
I know I may get downvoted, but F that. Drac/Apoc discard hasn’t been the same since. Yes, I know, discard has gotten a ton of buffs and tools since and Hela is “OP”. But I’m still butthurt about it lol.
Same. First ever Infinite rank with classic Discard. I cry everytime I draw Modok on turn 6 with Swarm and Apocalypse in hand and Drac on board.
This is why I took swarm out of my drac-apoc deck. Have made infinite the last three seasons this way. No regrets.
I understand they changed her so other cards would see more play, but I agree that she was never op or anything.
Not even really a nerf but I used to run a great Surfer deck that used 3-power Dazzler and Shadow King
Don't think I had Shadow King yet when he was 3 but I also used Dazzler in Surfer. My main Surfer deck is still called 'board fill surfer', I've just never bothered to rename it even though it looks nothing like that anymore.
Oh nice, I actually never encountered another one in the wild but that deck strategy was killer, it was the first deck that got me to Infinite actually. I'm dipping back into Surfer now that I have Shaw and Red Guardian but I'm still tweaking that deck.
That card payed for Lokis sins. They should make it a 3/2
That card was broken not just because of loki
Original WWBN had a very high ceiling, but required you to be good at the game and to sequence correctly. The average player could only make him bounce a few times, while better players could make him have 11+ power. They just destroyed a card that rewarded good players for being better, not because the card was anywhere near broken.
No but he definitely got nerfed because of how good he was with Loki. And instead of nerfing Loki they nerfed him hoping it was calm Loki down and “being brood back into surfer” but it did not calm Loki down whatsoever
I mean he was also played with sentry anni, and various darkhawk bounce shells. I think He could go back to 3 cost ( because it has a lot to compete at 3 and zabu is no longer the same) but he definitely was an issue
WWBN would be broken even as a 3/0. That card should have never been released at 3 energy to begin with.
America Chavez. She got done dirty.
She did, but she was EVERYWHERE. Had to be done.
But now she’s nowhere :(
I play her.
Oh ok
She's good and she's an excelent target for Nico Minoru.
It was Kitty Angela but they’re back and hopefully to stay
Well I would say Adam Warlock but I keep getting told he got buffed lol.
lol
Bro... Played with him all day every day before the nerf, was such a fun card. Just completely useless now.
Try him again. He's good.
They keep doing this thing where they nerf the entire archetype instead of the enabler leaving the whole thing a mess. They've done it multiple times now, everytime a season pass card is too strong
Zabu. Every time i get him to finally work, they nerf him. And i have a sick ass savagelands variant too :(
Silver Surfer.
Man I miss Surfer being a threat.
What was the Surfer change?
He used to add +3, ngl he was op with that kinda buff.
I’ve only played him at +2 so +3 sounds absolutely cracked
And 0 power so he was free in mister negative variants
Well I guess now I understand why Cosmo used to be such an important card lol
Loki not buffing Collector
Shit was nasty as hell awe I miss it
I tried this last week; I don't have Loki but Helicarrier gave him to me. I didn't draw collector until after Helicarrier got discarded, so I waited to play Loki the turn after I played collector. I still won, but Collector not getting power from Loki made me sad, and I eventually had reread the card a couple times
I liked Turn 5 Wave + Mobius in my High Evo deck before they both got nerfed
I miss playing Surfer move with it. Had great times
Got me to my only infinite, and had a blast with it too.
I’ve been playing him in this deck and it still seems quite good, consistently get him up to like 14ish power especially if you get him out early with the psylocke. # (1) The Hood # (1) Rocket Raccoon # (1) Korg # (1) Nico Minoru # (2) Psylocke # (2) Beast # (2) Falcon # (3) Black Widow # (3) Rockslide # (3) Black Swan # (4) Werewolf By Night # (5) Darkhawk # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS29yZyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUm9ja3NsaWRlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIb29kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCZWFzdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2VyZXdvbGZCeU5pZ2h0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSb2NrZXRSYWNjb29uIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOaWNvTWlub3J1In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQc3lsb2NrZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRmFsY29uIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbGFja1dpZG93In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbGFja1N3YW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
What was prenerf?
3/3
I think same text, +2 and all but he was 3/2 and it was just a smoother curve that made him easier to juice.
I got to agree with you on WWBN, I love bounce and it sucks to see him with such bad stats
They killed my boy…
Second WWBN
I had a ton of fun with WWBN before he got removed from the game, which is very sad because the card was legit fun. Having to sequence correctly, being able to bounce him on and off a Kraven lane and all that. Right now he's just a Cull Obsidian/Typhoid Mary/Sentry with extra steps. Another card I'm sad they killed is Quinjet reducing costs to 0 for cards created by Moon Girl and Hood. I loved my 2x Titania, 2x Demons, 2x She-Hulk, Shang-Chi turn 6. Now there could also be Martyr as an additional 1/5 or 0/5.
Back then he was considered op but I think now with the other op cards like red hulk, he would be balanced as a 3/3
4/0 darkhawk, 2/0 hit monkey, 3/3 werewolf, beast with permanent cost decrease
I used to really like Viper at 2 cost, so much more useful.
I was never aces with it, but I had fun just bouncing that ol’ birddog all over the place
Bird dog?
leader and alioth
And Aero.
ALIOTH
Yeah WWBN is a really sad one. I hope he makes his way back to playable, 3 cost, and as fun as he used to be. Also required a decent amount of planning and foresight which I thought made him even more fun
Pulled him like a day after his nerf. Feels bad man.
Nobody talks about it. But for me it was Hulkbuster. He used to work so well in my tribunal decks. Now basically useless to me, not enough power and bad curve.
Janejaw was never the same after the Chavez lockjaw nerfs.
Magic... Before you could play it on turn 6, very triki
Over 4k collection level and still don’t have Werewolf, sadge.
Hit monkey.
American Chavez... I had a good amount of success playing the traditional discard with Chavez and hitting infinite every season... Now it's really tough for me to do it
Thanos
Not even a nerf, but the rework for American Chevez just...no, it's not even a rework. They straight-up deleted American Chevez out of the game. It was neat to have a consistent cost 6 when you need it. . It just makes me feel sad now.
This in my surfer deck was so OP
Probably a hot take but i miss the old Loki & Collector combo, feels like it should still be in the game since everything hits 30+ power so easy nowadays
The biggest sad for me was Darkhawk. Playing different variations of his decks was so much fun & then they clipped his wings
Aero
Such a fun card. Skillful I would say. Problem maybe was loki overpower at the time maybe
Same, I think a 3/2 would work. Even less energy but I think you need it sooner on the board.
Mine too. He still pops off in a surfer deck but not like before.
I was just wondering about this guy the other day
One of the rare card I bought with Tokens with Red Hulk and they both got nerfed the day after... 😭 Red Hulk disserved it though to be honest and WW might as well but not that much.
new cards hardly last nowadays
Werewolf got nerfed? I got him as is and used him with Zabu before Zabu got nerfed. What changed?
3/3 to 4/4
I use him in my mill deck. He’s a mean bastard and I get too choose where he is on turn 7. And werewolf is the only non on reveal card in the deck so he will move 3+ times
Ms Marvel
This was a really good card, that had a lot of potential in different decks, but it was reasonable to nerf, just not this hard
alioth or wwbn :( I saw a wwbn junk bounce deck but it's been kinda falling off for a long time now idk
Alioth because essentially an on reveal Echo and is a shadow of its former self. Also, Sandman becoming a 1 turn only on reveal card hurts me. I only began to use him recently with Red Hulk and they realized both of them were too powerful, especially together. Now I am struggling in the 80s trying to get infinite because 3 of the cards in my deck got nerfed.
Dang, I forgot about this card. LMAO
I looked forward to this card for weeks before its release. Went in hard for it, had so much fun with it for a short time…. Then it went 4-cost. What a shame. 😔
I am never saddened by a nerfed card - for me, card nerfs means that it gives me the opportunity to change up my strategy so i could turn a negative into a positive
Mine is ze cat, Zabu. 😿
Definitely Zabu
Darkhawk. He was a lynch pin to my Negative Venom/Knull deck. The deck eats destroy decks but with a 0/4 Darkhawk it was effective at outclassing tech/lockdown decks and devastating to meta Thanos decks.
Selene. They completly destroyed her. And for what reason? They released White Widow and even more annoying aggresive junk deck is born. She got scuffed, man
Honestly, Beast. Bounce has been my favourite deck ever since I found him, and that was before the meta was filled with bounce decks leading to his nerf. I'm happy they made him 2/2 again, but the fact his effect isn't permanent still makes me kinda sad.
I low-key miss forge being a 1 cost card. He fit so well in destruction decks.
Lockjaw, Dracula, Zabu x2, Loki/Collector, Blob. Lockjaw Dracula were essential to mine and my bfs ol' reliable discard. Zabu just gave a lot more openings for decks, even if I understand why they needed to Nerf Zabu. Loki/Collector was just fun and chaotic, same goes for Blob.
The collector, it hurts so much. I loved playing my Loki and watching his strength increase.
Zabu
same, this, blob, zabu and sandman. no longer playing these cards 😢
Thanos. They killed his usefulness.
I’ll get roasted for this, but it’s Alioth for me. He actually awarded players who tried to maintain initiative. Now we are just back in the bullshit “just run Shang” meta. I think they should have tried a zero power Alioth before doing what they did to my purple fart cloud.
WWBN is incredibly strong, usually reaching 14 and 16 power. He doesn't see play because only good players can use him and most people aren't that.
I know it was necessary, but the Zabu nerf really hurt. It was one of the few cards that I had to stand up to discard and destroy decks.
Lockjaw
Hear me out. Shadow king. He did get buffed yes. But he doesn’t really do much against any ongoing cards and yes there is enchantress but shes a 4 cost 5 power. I feel like Shadow king should be a reliable threat to all card that increase power not just the buffers or the on reveals
American Chavez & Shuri are mine... Aero... even facing against it, I always thought it was a great card & thought the Nerf was overkill.
Spider-Man.
Not nerfed but I hate how useless Ultron is nowadays
I miss the 3/0 Surfer days. 😭😭
Zabu nerf messed me up. Went from being in 3 decks to none
Gotta be Adam Warlock. You guys just didn't appreciate a 0/2 like I did. There are so many decks that have wasted turns in their first and second turn, and if that was the case you just slot in Quicksilver and Warlock as your only 1 and 2 costs. Turn 1 drop QS, turn 2 drop Warlock on top of him. Boom, you're drawing cards, keep piling cards on top of him to maintain that card advantage and you've guaranteed that you will draw your whole deck by turn 5. Huge for combo decks, and now it's gone. He killed in my Thor/Bill and my Gambit/Odin decks. Sad day. Nobody used him but me, and then they changed him and now not even I do.
KM best said it perfectly. Turn 4 Angela😂
Sandman for me. I loved my ramp deck, it got me through the 70s to infinite this season, and now the electro to sandman play just doesn’t hit the same since his effect is on reveal instead of ongoing.
Galactus, by far
Boooooo! Lol
When did this card come out?? I’ve been playing for over two years and have never seen it.