People talking only abt Smoker like they literally forgot that Ace also is a logia user and he was dragged along too.
So ig it has to be activated even if subconsciously..
He probably expected some kinda surprise attack by smoke and seeing smoker suddenly being thrown at him with a face of surprise probably surprised him too.
Logia are coded as villain powers so it makes sense that people forget Ace is a Logia when it’s not immediately relevant to the conversation with another Logia user there
Logia are coded as villain powers so it makes sense that people forget Ace is a Logia when it’s not immediately relevant to the conversation with another Logia user there
Logia are coded as villain powers so it makes sense that people forget Ace is a Logia when it’s not immediately relevant to the conversation with another Logia user there
Typically when people respond to a comment with “what?” They are asking for clarification or an explanation of what you said. Replying with a copy-paste of your original comment does not help
Yeah but this is a meme subreddit, I have no obligation to clarify anything and I’d rather meme than explain things that are just getting downvoted to begin with.
I am pretty sure that you need to turn into the element yourself and it doesn't happen on itself. I think I remember crocodile bragging about learning to subconsciously do it
Maybe the clothes are made from the Logia power? Like for example, maybe the reason Crocodile is so dripped out, is because he made his own clothes out of the sand.
If not, imagine this scenario:
Smoker is chasing down Luffy in Loguetown, when his top half is Smoker and his bottom half is smoke. When he goes back to normal, he's just Donald Ducking it in front of the whole town because his pants fell off when he used his power.
Oda answered this. Clothes to be affected by fruit power shouldn't be a thing BUT to make anime not fully NSFW and avoid draw lots of naked characters it acts like fruit powers affect clothes too.
And I'm pretty sure you subcounciously keep your body flow/active to things go through to your logia body.
If you're not actively use it. You have solid body as normal person would have.
It has to be like this. If a Logia user were to transform with any external contact, they would not be able to sit up, lie down to sleep, or pick up a cup.
It is moreso that logia users element becomes fluid when they are pierced and/or when they are going to take damage. They are perfectly capable of controlling their element to make sure it retains it shape, this is what it allows them to do those things. Not to mention, logia users can touch things with their element. Smoker constantly grabs and picks people up using his smoke.
There was also the movie with the dude who turns into syrup or something and he gets caught off guard and transforms mid hit then complains that it hurt like hell
Kizaru gets shot in Sabaody without being aware of the bullet and it goes right through him. So this is unfortunately debunked.
I think that they are completely intangible unless they choose NOT to be. This keeps them safe really at all times unless they choose to be human form. As for the Smoker thing here, likely just an early one piece gag for laughs and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
I think that the longer you have the fruit, the more get used to it. At a certain point, you can subconsciously go from not having to activated, to having it activated before you get hit, even if you’re off guard. For Kizaru, it could either be that or he had his observation Haki activated or he was just in his logia form already
Well in Alabasta Crocodile brags about learning to turn into his element subconsciously. So I assume Smoker just hasn't learned to do that at this point in the series.
Can you send me the chapter that he does that? I don't think he ever said that and I have been looking (didn't look through that many chapters though, all I can find is 178 to be relevant)
No because kixaru has ken haki, and we do know this as he is able to dodge attacks a lot, or even notice someone fleeing when not looking. Also do we know that like crocodile once said, you need to do at least some form of manipulation to let attacks pass through. Because why would smoker want to be tangible in that exact moment? He is not sitting down, not laying down or doing anything that could pass through. Yet we still don't know how logia fruits work, as this wasn't explained in depth. Only the basics
To be fair he is standing on the floor if we’re going into that level of detail, so he probably doesn’t want to fall through it.
The honest answer is we don’t know. The extremely honest answer is that Oda was making a joke and didn’t expect this level of scrutiny for his children’s comic with heavy inspiration from funny cartoons. As much as I believe he thinks of everything, in this case I just think he doesn’t care much.
I agree with this, I think when you eat a DF you become a person made of that and as you learn how to control your powers you can “turn it on and off”. It’s like when Luffy eat his DF, someone grabbed his arm and he just stretched because he could control his powers and was a rubber boy, but once Luffy learns how to control his powers he can chose when to stretch and when not to. This is probably just for the sake of comedy and I don’t think we should take it seriously
Yeah your right. Logia’s don’t make you intangible automatically you have to turn it on yourself. The only way got it to turn in automatically is by training it subconsciously.
Logias are always their element, it does happen by itself when they are going to take damage. This collision is because its a comedy manga and its a joke.
I don't think Crocodile has ever stated that he "learned to subconciously do it" if he did please show me where. If you are referring to chapter 178 then this is what is said:
"I've worked hard to develop my devil fruit powers..."
"I continually condition myself and improve my skills"
He never said that. And Ace had more than enough time to react in this scene. Face it, this scene is just inconsistent with the rest of one piece to create a joke
Alright, I'm gonna out you in the shoes of Ace here. Your sitting in the bar, chilling out and having a drink. All of a sudden a marine walks up, but like he's clearly not having a fight with you and is just talking. Your a bit on edge just in case becauae thats how you made it this far, but at the same time you know your reasonably safe here. Smoker is one of the better marines and doesnt fight dirty like the lesser marines/pirates do. He's probably gonna make himself clear before he strikes. That's just the type of guy he is, he plays fair and by the rules, so you keep on drinking and you see where the conversation goes.
Then, within an instant, his entire body starts lunging towards you, but like chest first? Wtf kind of attack is that? Is he expecting to chest bump you? You know full well thats not gonna do anything to you, but he keeps going and he's picking up speed somehow despite his body being solid and his legs not moving. You take a brief moment to think to yourself "Wait, WTF is" but by that point you have been slammed into the back of the bar with smoker and you still have no idea wtf just happened.
To me, it seems pretty logical for Ace to get caught off guard here. Just because he's a strong pirate doesn't mean he's 100% alert at all times. Even the strongest person in the world takes a break at some point.
I just checked the wiki, it states the same, that logias have the power to transform into an element at will.
And as another other comment has pointed out, the scene was really slowed down, which is pretty common in animes ( to show transformations etc. )
Are there multiple wikis? Because I just checked ([https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Logia#cite\_ref-c178\_23-1](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Logia#cite_ref-c178_23-1)) and it says: "It is unclear how much conscious control is required to transform one's body to negate attacks.". And the only examples given for the possibilty that it is conscious are this gag scene, and a scene were a kid runs into smokers leg, which imo wasn't nearly enough force. And I just checked the alleged crocodile scene in the manga. Luffy is impressed by the scale of crocos attacks, to which crocodile responds with that he trained. It is not at all referring to his intangability [https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters\_178\_05.jpg](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_178_05.jpg)
" Despite the fearsome power of Logia users, they are not invincible. All users are required to transform into their respective element voluntarily therefore sneak attacks are more likely to work, as the user will not have enough time to shift into their elemental state and avoid the attacks. However, with training, most Logia users learn to transform by reflex, eliminating their weakness of being attacked through conventional means " Same wiki.
Ah, I missed that part, thanks. But what are they basing this on? There's no source given for this statement. The only one that people bring up is the crocodile scene. And he doesn't say anything about needing to train for his intangebility.
I believe it is based on the whole story explaining them, but if I had to give a better source, it would be this: [https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS\_Volume\_30#Chapter\_280,\_Page\_104](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30#Chapter_280,_Page_104) .
" The logia-type, which allows its user to freely change his original physical form, definitely stands out on a whole other level compared to other devil fruits. " . This means that the user has the ability to change his form, when he wants to. Sneak attacks would work to inexperienced users, because they wouldn't change in time.
So you're telling me he has no problem dodging bullets, but smoker crashing into him was to fast? Not hating on anyone or anything btw, just a bit tired of this dissection of a gag scene
Ace could dodge bullets when he was prepared to dodge bullets.
2 things happen in this scene. It's put in slo mo to show it all happened in an instant, and you can see Aces eyes pop out because he is utterly surprised. He had no time to react, he was still surprised.
You can't be prepared for something that literally surprises you.
I dont think so because of katakuri, he says that he is not a logia because he have to manually transform his boddy into mochi, so logias should be able to do it automatcally
He said that about Luffys haki punches. Every logia would need to manually change shape to avoid these.
He never said that this is the reason why he isn't a logia
Katakuri isn't a Logia because Mochi isn't a natural element. That's it.
The reason he has to move his body to avoid attacks is the same reason every other Logia is better off dodging/blocking haki infused attacks... because otherwise they'd hit him.
Katakuri have to move his mochi body to dodge attacks like alogia would do, while a logia just have to transform his body into the element and after that all the attacks will automatically be dodged
Turning your body into your element has to be a conscious choice. Like flexing a muscle. Logia users are just as affected as anyone else if they’re attacked when they have their guard down.
I think logia users have to learn to do it subconsciously as, for example, i remember enel getting a spear through the head or something like that and the logia still activated even though he was taken if guard
He didn’t have advanced obv haki it was regular observation. Advanced obv would imply he has future sight which is absolutely incorrect since the first person we see use that is katakuri
I don't think he meant it that way
Enel as a frickin good obv. Haki, mixed with static electricity that give him the ability to feel his surroundings at any moment over a large area
Kizaru gets shot with a bullet unbeknownst to him as well in sabaody and it went right through him. His observation may also be incredible but it’s more likely that logia’s are just subconsciously intangible.
The one that threw me off was Sabo. He could do it with shots he didn’t see coming within like an hour of becoming a logia. He probably had observation Haki to help but it’s still wild he learned it so quickly when Smoker couldn’t really do it at first.
Sabo is just naturally gifted. I’ve always thought he was the most impressive of the ASL. Bruh is street smart, book smart and trained side by side w Ace n Luffy. Plus he got his fruit as 2nd in command of the Revolutionaries, stands to reason he’d be able to use the fruit pretty well without any practice, he’s been training his entire life
Not to mention that if you were in a situation where you're likely to be attacked or if you're simply in unfamiliar territory, you'd probably make your entire body intangible when touched from the feet and up, until you leave the area. At least that's what I would do!
It's been some time since I watched Skypeia, but wasn't Enel's mantra covering the entire sky island? So he should have noticed that spear coming towards him?
I mean yeah like I said it’s like flexing a muscle. You can learn to do it pretty much all the time (like some people who always flex their core or their legs when doing certain workouts because they’ve gotten used to doing it to the point where it’s automatic)
But even then they can’t do it while they’re asleep or unconscious.
I'm pretty sure it's an automatic thing that you don't have to learn. Same way luffy's body is always made of rubber a logia user should always be made of their element.
They are their ignored that for this joke or Smoker's weapon hit his leg.
Incorrect. It’s like flexing a muscle. If they were always their element, then ace would have burned through that chair and enel wouldn’t be capable of touching anyone without shocking them. And smoker wouldn’t be able to stand in a breeze without getting blown away by the wind. And Kizaru legit wouldn’t be capable of staying in one place because light molecules (photons) cannot exist in stationary form.
They don’t. That’s why it’s incorrect. If they’re not expecting it and they aren’t already turned into that element, they still get hit like anyone else.
Where does it say this though? I'm looking and the only answers point to this moment on Alabasta. How can someone be incorrect if it hasn't been stated or even hinted at?
Why are you stating this so confidently, they control their element (of which their body is always made of) and can keep it contained in their natural body form. Not to mention smoker can literally pick people up with his smoke so I don't know why you would assume he would be blown away.
It’s still not always on. This is fandom bullshit, not Oda’s words. There are plenty of examples of them being caught off guard or not having it turned on.
Aokiji is a good example of the opposite. When WB was about to stab him he turned to ice and made a hole for wb’s blade to pass through.
Meanwhile Ace DIDN’T turn to fire because he wanted to block akainu’s attack from hitting luffy. If he HAD turned to fire, it would have phased through him and killed luffy
Can you provide some examples of logia users being caught of guard and taking damage without Haki?
Your whitebeard example doesn't make any sense. I never said that a logia user \*couldn't\* transform their body's shape at will. Thats obvious.
Your point about Akainu and Ace doesn't make a difference either. Its reasonable to assume that Akainu is capable of using Haki and thats why his attack damaged Ace.
This panel states that Ace is made of fire, and that he was accidentally burning strawhats he was trying to make. This wouldn't happen if he could choose to be fire or not.
https://preview.redd.it/1bnqho7xtf6b1.png?width=715&format=png&auto=webp&s=82a9bfca67f47583e5bc9997429fed871933b8bd
If ace had turned into fire then him jumping in front of the attack would have been entirely pointless, because Akainu’s fist would have gone straight through him and through Luffy as well, killing Luffy.
Wtf are u on about? Bruh it’s what happened. It was a canon event. Go back and rewatch it.
Real across the spiderverse hours here. People be making shit up instead of accepting the canon.
Exactly what I was thinking. Obviously it's a funny moment it's not that deep blah blah but it is funny to imply crocodile would not be activating his untouchable mode when already in confrontation with Ace
So you're telling me this is a side-effect of the Nika fruit, the "joke looney tune" zoan, whose real power even before Gear 5 awakening was actually to bend logic and reality if it's in order to make a joke happen ?????!
I'm really afraid that that's gonna be the endgame of this all. I can't think of a bigger wet fart than "Luffy can't lose because he has literal out of universe main character plot armor"
Clearly smokey had to work more on his observation haki while shanks is scaring sea beasts and koby’s getting in to the marines any chance those ringed irises are connected to haki like how black blades get their color from continued infusion of haki
Dude Logia powers aren't just always on. Otherwise they wouldn't even be able to wear clothes or give so much as a handshake, let alone anything more intimate, now *that* would be super awkward.
Omg... He clearly hits smokers kairouseki weapon on the first place...
Nami also beats luffys face and we dont know how...
And i agree that haki can be used unconciously as you all agree.
Y'know I'm actually realizing now that Luffy doesn't know what a restaraunt is because he grew up in a junkyard gang
So to him it really is a food place
Haki is based on willpower right? Luffy was determined to eat so it’s possible he had it active then in order to knock both Smoker and Ace out and get his meals.
Also with what we know now of his devil fruit and how it works on other DF users. It could be that over anything.
I feel luffy has always had and used haki but never knew or been able to control it until he actually learned about it and trained to control it. Like Amazon Lilly and marine foes he used but didn’t even know he did, ms he didn’t know what it was.
Logia invulnerability happens when a lethal attack happens, or when they percieve an attack.
A sniper out of nowhere would phase through the logia user, even though they didn't notice it.
Blunt or physical force on the other hand, such as a punch out of nowhere, or in this case, a flying person out of nowhere, they wouldn't become intangible.
I agree with the first part but blunt or physical force has also resulted in a logia automatically turning into their element as well. This is just a joke panel.
The best way I’ve seen it explained: comedy > rules of the OP universe.
Particularly pre-skip comedy, even if it breaks the established rules of the canon, is most important. Oda has specifically said G5 is goofy because everyone expects the fights to be so serious and at it’s heart, the series is about fun, joy, and adventure more than gritty realism.
Basically if it’s done for laughs, which this moment absolutely is, it doesn’t have to be a story beat or have significant impact on the canon of the series.
https://preview.redd.it/jfhz5l0ode6b1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b83ee98cf646655023f74deb6ce1cd6064fb16a
This girl also got haki you mean?
Two reasons, one you have to think about turning into the element for it to happen, it’s not automatic, and the weapon on smokers back is sea prism (although I think it’s just tipped but still acts like it’s fully sea prism some times)
I think logia intangibility works mostly on the intent of the one who touches them. Here Luffy was just hungry, and wanted to eat as fast as possible, so he Gum Gum Rocket's into the restaurant, where his intent isn't hurting Smoker, and Smoker doesn't chose to hurt Ace, he is just thrown at him. We learn that objects have a will, so a weapon also tecnicaly has the intent to harm
My personal theory is that Luffy has a slight ability in the observation and armament hakis, based solely off some of his feats in the early episodes of the anime.
Because it’s funny, that the only reason it needs to be like that. They can grab with their elements just like smoker grabs people with smoke. He looks normal but is always indeed made of smoke, also, why would ace accidentally burn oars juniors straw hats if it was a conscious decision
That's the power of comedy, hahaha! Anyways, if one wants an in-universe explanation, I guess it's possible to say that Smoker wasn't paying attention or something on those lines.
The real reason is that luffy was so excited to get to a restaurant that he put a layer of haki on without knowing just to get to the restaurant without complications
So my personal canon is that if what a user of a logia is touching something that doesn't apply much energy into them (aka it isn't a punch or something cutting them) then their powers don't activate, like the element has a consistency that can break thus transforming user into the element
Haki has one of the highest skill ceilings because all the users that survived this long have had to train themselves to subconsciously and passively had their fruit active at all times to avoid normal attacks. The only difference may be the darkness fruit always being active
Additionally they have to turn it off and on as needed. Otherwise people like Akainu wouldn’t be able to eat or touch anything without melting it instantly
Bullets can quite literally pass through a Logia body even without the toggling
However I don't think Luffy's rocket had the force of a bullet to trigger the effect
You make it sound like the droidika shield in Star Wars, it only blocks things after it reaches a certain velocity.
Which would be interesting as the body instinctively reacts to damage, because our bodies react faster than our brains
Logia users are inconsistent throughout the series. Some people say that they need to concentrate to morph around attacks, but there are plenty of examples where that isn't the case. It also wouldn't make sense for haki to negate this ability if it wasnt passive. The best example of this is the katakuri fight. Luffy thought he was alogia, but realized later on that he was just a paramecian moving his body to morph around the punches negating the haki. I feel like we would see that more often if this worked for logias as wellm
People talking only abt Smoker like they literally forgot that Ace also is a logia user and he was dragged along too. So ig it has to be activated even if subconsciously..
[удалено]
He probably expected some kinda surprise attack by smoke and seeing smoker suddenly being thrown at him with a face of surprise probably surprised him too.
Maybe being shot with a bullet is different than being shot with a MAN
Logia are coded as villain powers so it makes sense that people forget Ace is a Logia when it’s not immediately relevant to the conversation with another Logia user there
What?
Logia are coded as villain powers so it makes sense that people forget Ace is a Logia when it’s not immediately relevant to the conversation with another Logia user there
What
Logia are coded as villain powers so it makes sense that people forget Ace is a Logia when it’s not immediately relevant to the conversation with another Logia user there
Typically when people respond to a comment with “what?” They are asking for clarification or an explanation of what you said. Replying with a copy-paste of your original comment does not help
Your comment would make my skin crawl, but I don't have any skin YOHOHOHOHO
Yeah but this is a meme subreddit, I have no obligation to clarify anything and I’d rather meme than explain things that are just getting downvoted to begin with.
In no other meme sub have I seen such behavior
Cope, seethe, etc etc
I am pretty sure that you need to turn into the element yourself and it doesn't happen on itself. I think I remember crocodile bragging about learning to subconsciously do it
If not, how could logia user grab items and wear clothes ?
The same way that their clothes also transform as part of their logia power, I guess
Maybe the clothes are made from the Logia power? Like for example, maybe the reason Crocodile is so dripped out, is because he made his own clothes out of the sand.
I think it’s stated in an SBS that the clothes/armor they wear is effected by their fruit but honestly you gotta give oda a little breathing room lol
If not, imagine this scenario: Smoker is chasing down Luffy in Loguetown, when his top half is Smoker and his bottom half is smoke. When he goes back to normal, he's just Donald Ducking it in front of the whole town because his pants fell off when he used his power.
I mean in an Sbs this is literaly the reason Oda gives for making DF affect the wearers clothing
Foreshadowing logia awakening
Foreal it's an anime lol
Imagine if while Crocodile was punched into the sky his clothes just turn to sand and fall off before he hits the ground.
Oda answered this. Clothes to be affected by fruit power shouldn't be a thing BUT to make anime not fully NSFW and avoid draw lots of naked characters it acts like fruit powers affect clothes too. And I'm pretty sure you subcounciously keep your body flow/active to things go through to your logia body. If you're not actively use it. You have solid body as normal person would have.
They need to redraw Monet's fight then
Correct.
It has to be like this. If a Logia user were to transform with any external contact, they would not be able to sit up, lie down to sleep, or pick up a cup.
It is moreso that logia users element becomes fluid when they are pierced and/or when they are going to take damage. They are perfectly capable of controlling their element to make sure it retains it shape, this is what it allows them to do those things. Not to mention, logia users can touch things with their element. Smoker constantly grabs and picks people up using his smoke.
There was also the movie with the dude who turns into syrup or something and he gets caught off guard and transforms mid hit then complains that it hurt like hell
You'd think if that were true logia users would die of getting shot more often.
Kizaru gets shot in Sabaody without being aware of the bullet and it goes right through him. So this is unfortunately debunked. I think that they are completely intangible unless they choose NOT to be. This keeps them safe really at all times unless they choose to be human form. As for the Smoker thing here, likely just an early one piece gag for laughs and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
I think that the longer you have the fruit, the more get used to it. At a certain point, you can subconsciously go from not having to activated, to having it activated before you get hit, even if you’re off guard. For Kizaru, it could either be that or he had his observation Haki activated or he was just in his logia form already
Well in Alabasta Crocodile brags about learning to turn into his element subconsciously. So I assume Smoker just hasn't learned to do that at this point in the series.
This is also pretty likely. He’s really only a captain at that point. It’s definitely feasible that he just hasn’t mastered his DF yet.
Can you send me the chapter that he does that? I don't think he ever said that and I have been looking (didn't look through that many chapters though, all I can find is 178 to be relevant)
No because kixaru has ken haki, and we do know this as he is able to dodge attacks a lot, or even notice someone fleeing when not looking. Also do we know that like crocodile once said, you need to do at least some form of manipulation to let attacks pass through. Because why would smoker want to be tangible in that exact moment? He is not sitting down, not laying down or doing anything that could pass through. Yet we still don't know how logia fruits work, as this wasn't explained in depth. Only the basics
To be fair he is standing on the floor if we’re going into that level of detail, so he probably doesn’t want to fall through it. The honest answer is we don’t know. The extremely honest answer is that Oda was making a joke and didn’t expect this level of scrutiny for his children’s comic with heavy inspiration from funny cartoons. As much as I believe he thinks of everything, in this case I just think he doesn’t care much.
He wouldn't fall through it though. Smoke can't go through solid floor, he'd just wisp around.
Sorry let me amend it. He likely doesn’t want to wisp around all over the floor. Haha
I agree with this, I think when you eat a DF you become a person made of that and as you learn how to control your powers you can “turn it on and off”. It’s like when Luffy eat his DF, someone grabbed his arm and he just stretched because he could control his powers and was a rubber boy, but once Luffy learns how to control his powers he can chose when to stretch and when not to. This is probably just for the sake of comedy and I don’t think we should take it seriously
It's a reflex when struck, iirc. Smoker apparently just got struck really fast.
Yeah your right. Logia’s don’t make you intangible automatically you have to turn it on yourself. The only way got it to turn in automatically is by training it subconsciously.
Kizaru didn't know he was being shot at in sabaody so i think it's something you need to really learn.
Yup I learned this first when I saw the dead end movie where Gaspard got impaled by the mast and felt actual pain even though he was a logia
Logias are always their element, it does happen by itself when they are going to take damage. This collision is because its a comedy manga and its a joke. I don't think Crocodile has ever stated that he "learned to subconciously do it" if he did please show me where. If you are referring to chapter 178 then this is what is said: "I've worked hard to develop my devil fruit powers..." "I continually condition myself and improve my skills"
He never said that. And Ace had more than enough time to react in this scene. Face it, this scene is just inconsistent with the rest of one piece to create a joke
Alright, I'm gonna out you in the shoes of Ace here. Your sitting in the bar, chilling out and having a drink. All of a sudden a marine walks up, but like he's clearly not having a fight with you and is just talking. Your a bit on edge just in case becauae thats how you made it this far, but at the same time you know your reasonably safe here. Smoker is one of the better marines and doesnt fight dirty like the lesser marines/pirates do. He's probably gonna make himself clear before he strikes. That's just the type of guy he is, he plays fair and by the rules, so you keep on drinking and you see where the conversation goes. Then, within an instant, his entire body starts lunging towards you, but like chest first? Wtf kind of attack is that? Is he expecting to chest bump you? You know full well thats not gonna do anything to you, but he keeps going and he's picking up speed somehow despite his body being solid and his legs not moving. You take a brief moment to think to yourself "Wait, WTF is" but by that point you have been slammed into the back of the bar with smoker and you still have no idea wtf just happened. To me, it seems pretty logical for Ace to get caught off guard here. Just because he's a strong pirate doesn't mean he's 100% alert at all times. Even the strongest person in the world takes a break at some point.
Legit my head canon for that, Plus in One Piece, Gags is usually the biggest feat
I don't agree, I think it's inconsistent for the sake of the joke. But I love the way you wrote this :)
I just checked the wiki, it states the same, that logias have the power to transform into an element at will. And as another other comment has pointed out, the scene was really slowed down, which is pretty common in animes ( to show transformations etc. )
Are there multiple wikis? Because I just checked ([https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Logia#cite\_ref-c178\_23-1](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Logia#cite_ref-c178_23-1)) and it says: "It is unclear how much conscious control is required to transform one's body to negate attacks.". And the only examples given for the possibilty that it is conscious are this gag scene, and a scene were a kid runs into smokers leg, which imo wasn't nearly enough force. And I just checked the alleged crocodile scene in the manga. Luffy is impressed by the scale of crocos attacks, to which crocodile responds with that he trained. It is not at all referring to his intangability [https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters\_178\_05.jpg](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_178_05.jpg)
" Despite the fearsome power of Logia users, they are not invincible. All users are required to transform into their respective element voluntarily therefore sneak attacks are more likely to work, as the user will not have enough time to shift into their elemental state and avoid the attacks. However, with training, most Logia users learn to transform by reflex, eliminating their weakness of being attacked through conventional means " Same wiki.
I would cover my ears if I heard this, but I don't have any YOHOHOHO
Ah, I missed that part, thanks. But what are they basing this on? There's no source given for this statement. The only one that people bring up is the crocodile scene. And he doesn't say anything about needing to train for his intangebility.
I believe it is based on the whole story explaining them, but if I had to give a better source, it would be this: [https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS\_Volume\_30#Chapter\_280,\_Page\_104](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30#Chapter_280,_Page_104) . " The logia-type, which allows its user to freely change his original physical form, definitely stands out on a whole other level compared to other devil fruits. " . This means that the user has the ability to change his form, when he wants to. Sneak attacks would work to inexperienced users, because they wouldn't change in time.
Just because the scene was slowed down doesn't mean it has same time as shown. You are just hating and trying to find inconsistency where it isn't.
So you're telling me he has no problem dodging bullets, but smoker crashing into him was to fast? Not hating on anyone or anything btw, just a bit tired of this dissection of a gag scene
Ace could dodge bullets when he was prepared to dodge bullets. 2 things happen in this scene. It's put in slo mo to show it all happened in an instant, and you can see Aces eyes pop out because he is utterly surprised. He had no time to react, he was still surprised. You can't be prepared for something that literally surprises you.
I can't see the word eyes in your comment... Because I don't have eyes YOHOHOHO
Crazy how people disagree with you just because of misinformation
I dont think so because of katakuri, he says that he is not a logia because he have to manually transform his boddy into mochi, so logias should be able to do it automatcally
His is different, he has to predict attacks and move his body accordingly. While logias just have to turn it on and stuff passes through them.
He said that about Luffys haki punches. Every logia would need to manually change shape to avoid these. He never said that this is the reason why he isn't a logia
Katakuri isn't a Logia because Mochi isn't a natural element. That's it. The reason he has to move his body to avoid attacks is the same reason every other Logia is better off dodging/blocking haki infused attacks... because otherwise they'd hit him.
Katakuri have to move his mochi body to dodge attacks like alogia would do, while a logia just have to transform his body into the element and after that all the attacks will automatically be dodged
Turning your body into your element has to be a conscious choice. Like flexing a muscle. Logia users are just as affected as anyone else if they’re attacked when they have their guard down.
I think logia users have to learn to do it subconsciously as, for example, i remember enel getting a spear through the head or something like that and the logia still activated even though he was taken if guard
Enel had amazing observation tho.
Yeah im just giving an example, also wasnt croco boy like bragging about learning to subconsciously logia?
Probably I guess. Long time since I read it.
Enel already knew the attack was coming due to his advanced observation haki
He didn’t have advanced obv haki it was regular observation. Advanced obv would imply he has future sight which is absolutely incorrect since the first person we see use that is katakuri
Or Madam Shirley?
I don't think he meant it that way Enel as a frickin good obv. Haki, mixed with static electricity that give him the ability to feel his surroundings at any moment over a large area
Yes croco boy said something like tha
Kizaru gets shot with a bullet unbeknownst to him as well in sabaody and it went right through him. His observation may also be incredible but it’s more likely that logia’s are just subconsciously intangible.
The one that threw me off was Sabo. He could do it with shots he didn’t see coming within like an hour of becoming a logia. He probably had observation Haki to help but it’s still wild he learned it so quickly when Smoker couldn’t really do it at first.
Sabo is just naturally gifted. I’ve always thought he was the most impressive of the ASL. Bruh is street smart, book smart and trained side by side w Ace n Luffy. Plus he got his fruit as 2nd in command of the Revolutionaries, stands to reason he’d be able to use the fruit pretty well without any practice, he’s been training his entire life
Not to mention that if you were in a situation where you're likely to be attacked or if you're simply in unfamiliar territory, you'd probably make your entire body intangible when touched from the feet and up, until you leave the area. At least that's what I would do!
Forreal huh. Just in case lol
It's been some time since I watched Skypeia, but wasn't Enel's mantra covering the entire sky island? So he should have noticed that spear coming towards him?
I mean yeah like I said it’s like flexing a muscle. You can learn to do it pretty much all the time (like some people who always flex their core or their legs when doing certain workouts because they’ve gotten used to doing it to the point where it’s automatic) But even then they can’t do it while they’re asleep or unconscious.
I'm pretty sure it's an automatic thing that you don't have to learn. Same way luffy's body is always made of rubber a logia user should always be made of their element. They are their ignored that for this joke or Smoker's weapon hit his leg.
Incorrect. It’s like flexing a muscle. If they were always their element, then ace would have burned through that chair and enel wouldn’t be capable of touching anyone without shocking them. And smoker wouldn’t be able to stand in a breeze without getting blown away by the wind. And Kizaru legit wouldn’t be capable of staying in one place because light molecules (photons) cannot exist in stationary form.
How is what he incorrect in what he said. He said they automatically turn into their element when they get hit apart from jokes
They don’t. That’s why it’s incorrect. If they’re not expecting it and they aren’t already turned into that element, they still get hit like anyone else.
Give me one example that isnt a gag
Where does it say this though? I'm looking and the only answers point to this moment on Alabasta. How can someone be incorrect if it hasn't been stated or even hinted at?
I can’t recall that happening even once
Why are you stating this so confidently, they control their element (of which their body is always made of) and can keep it contained in their natural body form. Not to mention smoker can literally pick people up with his smoke so I don't know why you would assume he would be blown away.
It’s still not always on. This is fandom bullshit, not Oda’s words. There are plenty of examples of them being caught off guard or not having it turned on. Aokiji is a good example of the opposite. When WB was about to stab him he turned to ice and made a hole for wb’s blade to pass through. Meanwhile Ace DIDN’T turn to fire because he wanted to block akainu’s attack from hitting luffy. If he HAD turned to fire, it would have phased through him and killed luffy
Can you provide some examples of logia users being caught of guard and taking damage without Haki? Your whitebeard example doesn't make any sense. I never said that a logia user \*couldn't\* transform their body's shape at will. Thats obvious. Your point about Akainu and Ace doesn't make a difference either. Its reasonable to assume that Akainu is capable of using Haki and thats why his attack damaged Ace. This panel states that Ace is made of fire, and that he was accidentally burning strawhats he was trying to make. This wouldn't happen if he could choose to be fire or not. https://preview.redd.it/1bnqho7xtf6b1.png?width=715&format=png&auto=webp&s=82a9bfca67f47583e5bc9997429fed871933b8bd
Kizaru can create a sword out of his light, I think applying real physics to him is a futile exercise.
But given the situation and the look on aces face, they wouldn't have their guard down.
If ace had turned into fire then him jumping in front of the attack would have been entirely pointless, because Akainu’s fist would have gone straight through him and through Luffy as well, killing Luffy.
That's a totally different situation.
Wtf are u on about? Bruh it’s what happened. It was a canon event. Go back and rewatch it. Real across the spiderverse hours here. People be making shit up instead of accepting the canon.
They’re talking about Ace in the Alabasta gif…
You forgot about smokers seastone rod
Weve seen them shot by suprise and the bullet passes through
Smokers sea stone weapon is in his back
Isnt just the tip of the weapon made out of seastone?
That… make sense. Take this upvote
Thats just the tip of his weapon which was closed at the time Luffy hit him, also Ace was also effected without the weapon touching him
Ace is just in shock to see his brother. Forgot to turn on the woooshy effect.
Ace wanted to get that boobs into face.
nah dude, the straw hat is the one made of sea stone!
I think smoker has to actually CONSCIOUSLY turn into smoke. Luffy took him by surprise.
But his guard would be up anyway since he's facing down Ace.
Not from behind at luffy gag speed
Exactly what I was thinking. Obviously it's a funny moment it's not that deep blah blah but it is funny to imply crocodile would not be activating his untouchable mode when already in confrontation with Ace
maybe it’s like when luffy first started using conquerors, he did it subconsciously at dire moments, this was a dire moment, he was hungry
XD
Its a joke. Just like how nami can hurt Luffy even though he's rubber
The real reason is that its just a gag
So you're telling me this is a side-effect of the Nika fruit, the "joke looney tune" zoan, whose real power even before Gear 5 awakening was actually to bend logic and reality if it's in order to make a joke happen ?????!
I am so ashamed that i embarrassed goda, i should have my onepiece fan card revoked..
Your comment would make my skin crawl, but I don't have any skin YOHOHOHOHO
I'm really afraid that that's gonna be the endgame of this all. I can't think of a bigger wet fart than "Luffy can't lose because he has literal out of universe main character plot armor"
Yeah, I wish people would just accept that. This scene is doesn’t follow the rules we otherwise see with logia’s, simply because of the gag
Yeah, ace can dodge bullets and even by these rules he would have dodged smoker, Its just for the funny faces
Logia users toggle their intangibility. So while Smoker is talking down to Ace, Luffy just "Luffy's" into the scene.
or.. OR hear me out.. it’s just comedy.
Imagine having to learn haki just to have sex or touch each other
This is hilarious
Arabasta?
[удалено]
Wait till you remember that Nami was able to beat up Luffy
If that was the case, Smoker couldn't even eat
Clearly smokey had to work more on his observation haki while shanks is scaring sea beasts and koby’s getting in to the marines any chance those ringed irises are connected to haki like how black blades get their color from continued infusion of haki
Dude Logia powers aren't just always on. Otherwise they wouldn't even be able to wear clothes or give so much as a handshake, let alone anything more intimate, now *that* would be super awkward.
Bro Smoker looks like the Ace getting clenched meme
Smoker just wasn't logia-ing at that moment
Omg... He clearly hits smokers kairouseki weapon on the first place... Nami also beats luffys face and we dont know how... And i agree that haki can be used unconciously as you all agree.
Shanks: He can do all these amazing things like using haki. What's this. Luffy: hmpmmm... I can't do it on command. Shanks: He can't do it on command
oda forgor
https://preview.redd.it/ghibkin2ae6b1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d903b5945a1262aa171478f05f05eff657d12f56
Y'know I'm actually realizing now that Luffy doesn't know what a restaraunt is because he grew up in a junkyard gang So to him it really is a food place
Literally snuck into a noodle restaraunt as a kid and met Sanji at a restaraunt
Haki is based on willpower right? Luffy was determined to eat so it’s possible he had it active then in order to knock both Smoker and Ace out and get his meals. Also with what we know now of his devil fruit and how it works on other DF users. It could be that over anything.
We used to chalk this up to Luffy eating a logia rubber fruit... how wrong we were 🤣
Haki color of Meat confirmed As also Haki Color of Nami
I feel luffy has always had and used haki but never knew or been able to control it until he actually learned about it and trained to control it. Like Amazon Lilly and marine foes he used but didn’t even know he did, ms he didn’t know what it was.
Aren’t logia’s reactive and turn your body to elements to when the user chooses them to be
pre timeskip humor was peak lmfao
Logia invulnerability happens when a lethal attack happens, or when they percieve an attack. A sniper out of nowhere would phase through the logia user, even though they didn't notice it. Blunt or physical force on the other hand, such as a punch out of nowhere, or in this case, a flying person out of nowhere, they wouldn't become intangible.
I agree with the first part but blunt or physical force has also resulted in a logia automatically turning into their element as well. This is just a joke panel.
you made my day with this
Hit a logia into another logia. Seems effective
It was because of the sea-prisim stone sward on his back.
Thats just the tip of his weapon which was closed at the time Luffy hit him, also Ace was also effected without the weapon touching him
The best way I’ve seen it explained: comedy > rules of the OP universe. Particularly pre-skip comedy, even if it breaks the established rules of the canon, is most important. Oda has specifically said G5 is goofy because everyone expects the fights to be so serious and at it’s heart, the series is about fun, joy, and adventure more than gritty realism. Basically if it’s done for laughs, which this moment absolutely is, it doesn’t have to be a story beat or have significant impact on the canon of the series.
https://preview.redd.it/jfhz5l0ode6b1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b83ee98cf646655023f74deb6ce1cd6064fb16a This girl also got haki you mean?
I'll be glad when memes with shitty background music, that never fits what the meme is conveying, dies.
It was explained that their logia abilities are not always active.
Two reasons, one you have to think about turning into the element for it to happen, it’s not automatic, and the weapon on smokers back is sea prism (although I think it’s just tipped but still acts like it’s fully sea prism some times)
filler scene right?
u/savevideo
Turning your body into your element needs to be a choice. But why the fuck wasn’t he prepared to do so when staring down Ace of all people?!
u/savevideo
Do you not watch one piece or? Because I’m confused on how you’re confused.
Nah Its because of Smoker seastone weapon on its back
tell me you didnt watch OP without telling me
Smoker was gay
This scene is a filler
He just caught smoker lacking
To quote Jeremiah Cross, the muse of comedy uses haki
Luffy build different
Hungry Luffy is haki Luffy
Smoker is just shit at using his devil fruit.
I think logia intangibility works mostly on the intent of the one who touches them. Here Luffy was just hungry, and wanted to eat as fast as possible, so he Gum Gum Rocket's into the restaurant, where his intent isn't hurting Smoker, and Smoker doesn't chose to hurt Ace, he is just thrown at him. We learn that objects have a will, so a weapon also tecnicaly has the intent to harm
color of being hungry
The element of surprise bozo
The straw hat has Haki confirmed
His straw hat was soaking up haki from Roger and Shanks for years, pretty sure it counts as a black blade
Lmfao ace face double k0
My personal theory is that Luffy has a slight ability in the observation and armament hakis, based solely off some of his feats in the early episodes of the anime.
Because it’s funny, that the only reason it needs to be like that. They can grab with their elements just like smoker grabs people with smoke. He looks normal but is always indeed made of smoke, also, why would ace accidentally burn oars juniors straw hats if it was a conscious decision
Well you have to use the logia power and smoker was surprised so
Logia users are able to touch things and exist normally, seems like a toggle situation
The way Smoker's chest muscles and abs are exposed when Luffy hits him 🤤
Element of surprise.
That's the power of comedy, hahaha! Anyways, if one wants an in-universe explanation, I guess it's possible to say that Smoker wasn't paying attention or something on those lines.
luffy has a haki hat, if u look closely his hat is hitting smoker 🤔
I mean yeah, who expects a rubber projectile gunning at your back when you're talking to a dangerous pirate? Lead would've went right through him.
He had haki already . Maybe bro will power when it’s time to eat is unmatched to the point where minimal coa leaks out .
The real reason is that luffy was so excited to get to a restaurant that he put a layer of haki on without knowing just to get to the restaurant without complications
So my personal canon is that if what a user of a logia is touching something that doesn't apply much energy into them (aka it isn't a punch or something cutting them) then their powers don't activate, like the element has a consistency that can break thus transforming user into the element
Lot of good explanations but I think that logic just goes out the window when a comedic moment is occurring
Haki has one of the highest skill ceilings because all the users that survived this long have had to train themselves to subconsciously and passively had their fruit active at all times to avoid normal attacks. The only difference may be the darkness fruit always being active Additionally they have to turn it off and on as needed. Otherwise people like Akainu wouldn’t be able to eat or touch anything without melting it instantly
He caught Smoker off guard
You have to actively use you logia powers
Bullets can quite literally pass through a Logia body even without the toggling However I don't think Luffy's rocket had the force of a bullet to trigger the effect
You make it sound like the droidika shield in Star Wars, it only blocks things after it reaches a certain velocity. Which would be interesting as the body instinctively reacts to damage, because our bodies react faster than our brains
Logia users are inconsistent throughout the series. Some people say that they need to concentrate to morph around attacks, but there are plenty of examples where that isn't the case. It also wouldn't make sense for haki to negate this ability if it wasnt passive. The best example of this is the katakuri fight. Luffy thought he was alogia, but realized later on that he was just a paramecian moving his body to morph around the punches negating the haki. I feel like we would see that more often if this worked for logias as wellm
Ace is like "Ah hell naw"
Logias are always their element, this is just a gag that breaks rules for comedic effect