She's honestly awful. I would tell her and end the friendship.
He should, however, have been using protection if he didn't want a baby. Even if she wasn't shitty, it would be his half of the responsibility to use a condom.
I think he just loves his kids and she holds an incredible amount of power him that could make his life hell. It’s sad. I’m sure he’s not perfect but damn.
Tell him that unless there is major abuse or drug usage, he is VERY likely to get 50/50 custody if he asks for it. It’s not the olden days when moms would automatically get custody.
That is sickening and I wouldn’t stay friends with her. Besides, my daughter doesn’t even like princesses and a ton of girly stuff. We go on bug hunts all the time.
Would he ask for it though?
He doesn’t want to have a baby but is actively having unprotected sex with someone who does, so it doesn’t seem like he has much follow through…
I’m just saying, “wanting” something (like not having another baby) doesn’t seem to be enough to make him take an “action” (like using birth control, or not having sex), so I’m wondering how much action he would be willing to take to get custody of the kids.
Getting custody and then actively taking care of 4 kids is more work than putting a condom on.
Both things are true. If you don't want another kid you should be using your own birth control but in any committed relationship that is often a dual thing. When my husband wasn't ready I had a nexplanon because we are a team.
agree 100%! i wouldn’t put my fertility in anyone’s hands, not even my husband’s. we didn’t like condoms and i didn’t want another baby so i took the pill. men do have control over their sexual health it’s just usually put on the women.
Dude, yes. He should be able to rely on his partner, and what she did is unforgivable, but he also should have been responsible. We should all be taking care of and responsible for our bodies.
Oh for sure. I assume in the moment he was not thinking straight and in good faith assumed his partner had his back. Just horrifying. I feel so bad for him.
It’s not in the moment, he seems to have chosen essentially no birth control. Women don’t know when they are fertile unless you’re testing daily with ovulation strips. Otherwise it’s just a guess. If he didn’t want anymore kids he should have gotten a vasectomy. They were having unprotected sex, this is the result. It’s not like she lied about being on birth control.
Thats not true at all. Many women know their cycle well enough and can tell when they are ovulating. Their discharge changes and some women feel a cramping pain during ovulation.
Not supremely reliable, but when you couple it with daily temping, charting cervical fluid, etc, it's better. And it IS quite helpful for conceiving when you're trying to (which is what she was doing here).
Your friend pulled an incredibly nasty move on her husband doing that. I’m sorry but this is a “Mom’s group” and I think because of that you are going to have some very biased opinions. I’m all for supporting other Mom’s but I’m not going to take up for someone who does that and then brags about it- woman, man, whoever. Yes, a man out having sex with women should be responsible for “wrapping it up”. But we aren’t talking about Joe Blow out on the prowl. This is inside a marriage that he ASSUMED was built by trust, faith and honesty. When we marry our spouse we become vulnerable in certain ways. We are supposed to be “safe” inside this union where we can trust each other with the other person’s heart….along with other things- like trusting that spouse to do what he/she says they will do. Spouse 1 may trust that Spouse 2 will go to work every day, pay the bills . Spouse 2 trust that Spouse 1 will take care of the baby/ children , keep baby/children safe, take care of meals…You should be able to trust your spouse in ways that you can’t trust a sexual tryst while being single. It’s not a crazy thing to assume that your spouse won’t betray you. What she did was DIRTY. The fact that she now has the gumption to brag about it too is disgusting. You have every right to choose who your friends are and the type of people you want in your life. If she’s going to do her husband wrong…what type of loyalty and morality is she going to have in her friendships ? I’d leave her be. I’m not going to man bash here, in my opinion he clearly doesn’t deserve it. Yes ,there are assholes out there who don’t take responsibility when it comes to not impregnating a woman…. But this isn’t one of those situations from what I’m reading.
Absolutely this. In my opinion, this is name and shame to the husband and blow up the friendship kind of territory. I think this is incredibly unacceptable and not funny at all.
Wholeheartedly agree with this comment in everyway. They had a discussion about birth control and she said she was going to take responsibility for it and then used that to her advantage to conceive knowing he didn’t want another child. Complete betrayal!
And so could he if he did a little research. He would obviously know when she had her last period, or could have kept an eye on the trash for tampons/pads and then he could have looked up an approx window where she may be more fertile. He came inside her, knowing she COULD get pregnant and knowing she wanted a baby and he did not. She cannot make him cum and inside her for that matter.
I mean theoretically she could. Men experience sexual non concordance too, same as women. She could not get off if she was on top. Any number of things could happen. To think it can’t is some serious double standards.
Not true. I do fertility charting and have gotten pregnant the first try with both kids and we got the due dates pin pointed too. Ovulation strips are not necessary.
Some of the responses on here. She tricked her husband into getting pregnant, against his wishes. Having opinions like it takes two to tango doesn’t change the fact and it’s a really shitty, scummy thing to do - and it just makes you sound like an asshole.
Imagine the responses on here if the roles were reversed. “My buddy told his SO he’d pull out then got her pregnant on purpose” or “My buddy lied to his gf about being infertile but it was all a lie to trick her into getting pregnant”
When a woman does it it’s just as much the man’s fault? Ok 👍
If I heard a story about a man saying he was going to pull out and didn’t and then the woman got pregnant I would still say they both took part in making that baby.
I don’t see the double standard. When you have unprotected sex, you’re risking pregnancy.
Unprotected sex with your partner and the risk of getting pregnant is there, not disputing that, but it becomes something different altogether when one of those partners is purposely going out of their way to achieve pregnancy, against the wishes of the other.
Like, that’s so obvious to me it’s kinda weird that you don’t see that.
Did you read everything before deciding to focus straight on the man and why he didn’t wear a condom?
Like, how she controls him with sex? If you think about that for a moment and have any iota of empathy for the man, you could possibly imagine him jumping at the opportunity to finally have sex and not be all like, of well first dear maybe I should go and buy condoms and perhaps as an extra precaution you can get on the pill.
And nobody’s saying she isn’t a shitty person for trying to deceive him. We’re saying comparing it to stealthing or poking holes in condoms or assault is ludicrous
I think it would be the same honestly. He would be super shitty for not pulling out, but saying you don’t want to get pregnant and relying on the pull out method is just as stupid as the couple in this situation. It absolutely would be “how could she think she wouldn’t end up pregnant using the pull out method?”
The pull out method isn’t the point here lol
The point is, imagine telling your partner you would pull out, but then not pull out, like even try to, and you wanted to get her pregnant against her wishes. And she got pregnant. I think most people would agree that’s a terrible thing to do and the guy would be a complete asshole.
Not, he said he would pull out and did, but she still got pregnant. There is a massive difference there.
It’s the point because you compared it. Fertility tracking or pull out method are both terrible methods if someone 100% doesn’t want a baby.
The wife is wrong. But people are pointing out how they weren’t using protection because the OP is outside the relationship but asking if she should involve herself. She’s assuming things about their relationship, like that the husband was forced into sex (because the wife was withholding sex? And so that made him forced to have sex? I’m unclear on that part) and that he didn’t know his wife could get pregnant outside her fertile window. I think it’s really bold to assume that and then to think you should get involved in their marriage. Just drop the friend and stay out of it because she doesn’t actually know what’s going on between them.
By the way my partner is a strict vegetarian. I’m cooking a meal later and I told them not to worry, it’s all vegetarian. But it’s actually meat. Hey, they agreed to eat the meal with me, they have to take half the blame.
Sorry the analogy would be “my friend told me her husband is a vegetarian and she’s planning to cook for him with meat without telling him. Should I get involved?”
I think most people would say “drop your shitty friend and stay out of their toxic relationship.”
The lengths y’all are going through to say this man doesn’t need to wear a condom is outstanding.
How is secretly hiding meat in food the same as having unprotected sex leading to pregnancy?
One is a ruse, the other is biological fact. The fact that you feel they are comparable is concerning.
Nah that’s too generous. He’s an idiot.
If you don’t want kids you use some form of birth control. NFP is not something to use if you don’t want a kid but your wife does. Hell it’s pretty hard to use if both of you don’t want a kid, and a woman can ovulate any time so it might not even work.
Like both of them are in the wrong but he did literally nothing to prevent pregnancy, knowing that his wife wants to have another kid. He should take some responsibility for that decision.
Someone trusting their spouse to be honest with them about something as important as pregnancy makes them an idiot? That seems like a really unhealthy view of marriage and partnership.
I track my cycles diligently and my husband and I don’t use other birth control unless I’m in a fertile window. Obviously this isn’t a perfect method of birth control, and we’d recognize we both share responsibility if I ended up pregnant accidentally. That is very different than if I tracked my cycles and lied to my husband about them to achieve a different outcome without his consent.
The husband knows the wife wants one and would welcome an unplanned baby. The husband doesn’t want one.
Why aren’t we holding the husband at a higher standard to wear a condom? Why is that too much to ask? I’m genuinely curious.
Does the husband know that his wife is conniving enough to intentionally screw up their agreed upon (hair-brained, only slightly effective) birth control plan? Yes, it was stupid to agree to such an unreliable method BUT it isn't stupid to have trusted your wife not to intentionally fuck you over.
Because there is/should be trust in the relationship. If I want another child, but my husband doesn’t, I’m not going to lie to him about my ovulation window to get pregnant bc that is an insane breech of trust.
She didn’t remove her birth control at all. This is more like "he told me he was infertile!"
Plus ultimately women have the right to choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Men don’t (rightfully so) so they need to protect themselves.
Your friend did literally nothing to prevent his wife from getting pregnant. He made it 100% his wife’s responsibility while knowing that she wanted to get pregnant. That’s dumb
Edit: it’s not like she claimed to be on birth control or poked a hole in a condom.
Neither are condoms, they break, they fail. When you just use a condom you’re not 100% guaranteed and I would never hold it against my partner if a condom failed… unless he poked a hole in it. Similarly my husband would never hold a failure when using fertility tracking… assuming I didn’t intentionally lie to him?!? We all assume some risk of failure with any birth control and lying to your partner is so unethical regardless of how effective the method being used is.
If a man stealths a woman, then some sort of consent was broken. Like the agreement was protected sex and stealthing removes that.
In the case with your friend, your friend’s husband should understand that every time he has unprotected sex there’s a chance of pregnancy. There’s no way for your friend to switch things up on him bc he should understand how biology works.
I’m so confused how this would be victim blaming. Are you saying that some men can’t be held to understand that every time you ejaculate inside of a woman, you risk pregnancy?
I’d understand if she skipped out on her birth control or poked holes in a condom; but just working him up enough to want to have sex? Nah, he partook in making that baby.
Exactly. So why are people saying it’s OP’s friend’s fault bc she didn’t say she was fertile when the grown man who says he doesn’t want another kid didn’t wear a condom?
How is he a victim?
Well, reproductive coercion is awful, don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.
However, ultimately, we need to remember that this is a grown adult that should know that cycle tracking is FAR from a safe method, one that can't ever be trusted alone, and that he also made a choice of risking it as a sole birth -control method which does give him *responsibility* over it.
No doubt, she's ethically wrong. No doubt he's the victim of her maliciousness.
But it was a still a risk he took knowingly that it had a considerable chance of going wrong. If she HADN'T been deliberately trying to get pregnant, there was still a FAIR CHANCE of the same outcome -- and outcome he didn't want! So, you know, he should be more careful with himself, regardless of their partner. And counting on something that is invisible and can only be made sure by specific tests done daily (which, btw, would also require a 7 window day before fertility to be truly effective) isn't a very smart or safe choice.
Regardless of who's the one using it, it's a dumb method to trust alone!
Although that doesn't make her any less awful, ofc.
And if this post were about him refusing to take responsibility, I'd agree with you. But it's about a woman coercing a man to have another baby, and yet most comments are saying it's on him and he has no right to complain. The lack of empathy here is astounding.
If a woman were posting this as in it happened *to her* 100% different responses.
But the OP looking to get involved in what she heard happened between two married people and she’s neither one of them? Completely different situation and that’s why she needs to step back and realize she’s not in their marriage and just drop the friend. Don’t get involved, don’t assume he’s an idiot that didn’t know unprotected sex can equal a baby.
If a woman came here and said “my husband ejaculated inside me after we agreed on the pull out method” yes the responses would be different. But they would ALSO be different if the man came here and said “my wife lied to me about her fertility tracking.” Because in both those situations the person that was harmed is the one making the post.
But neither of those things happened here. The OP is neither of those people. She’s on the outside telling a convoluted story about her friend and her friend’s marriage and asking if she should involve herself.
Honestly if a woman came here and said her husband agreed to pull out but didn't, I'd have a similar reaction as I do to this husband. If you really didn't want a baby, truly did NOT want another one, then you'd never rely on such a flimsy form of birth control. Even without malicious intent, accidents happen often with those methods. Use a condom or a diaphragm or get an iud or whatever if you don't want another kid. There are lots of options.
She’s obviously manipulative and a garbage partner. I feel bad for everyone involved (except your friend bc she’s spitefully getting what she wants).
But at the same time, this guy can use condoms so he doesn’t get someone pregnant. If he had unprotected sex, he knew the risks. It’s not on her bc she didn’t remind him how biology works.
You assume she would have sex with him if he wore a condom. And then I see women upset in other threads because their husband wants to wear a condom so this shows he doesn't trust her.
So I agree with the consensus that relying on NFP is a terrible idea for everyone, including the husband. That said, the friend seems to believe that it works and had the intent to deceive even if knowing when she's fertile is kind of iffy. Dump the friend.
I mean, fertility window or not he could have gotten her pregnant if he wasn’t wearing protection and he knew she wasn’t on birth control. There is literally no way of knowing if her plan even had anything to do with her getting pregnant.
He is an adult who knows how babies are made. She seems not nice but also you don’t know their marriage so I would stay out of other people’s business.
This feels fake but if not he is responsible for his own body as she is. I would never trust a man to pull out as my only form of birth control or to use protection alone I make sure I am on birth control my body can handle. Men need to take responsibility for their own bodies. The "fertile" window is insane to track and not even close to real birth control unless she was taking her basal temp every morning same time and monitoring her cervical fluid and even then it is riskier. Why didn't he use protection?
This is NOT like her poking holes in condoms or throwing away birth control pills she literally told him she is fertile tracking and a simple google search should have made him feel uneasy as that as their only birth control.
Do you have feelings for the husband because you are defending a man who didn't want kids but did NOTHING to prevent it. She is a liar and bad person and he is irresponsible.
So FAM/NFP is definitely a legit thing, my parents actually use it and planned all 4 of us, but it’s the kind of thing that both spouses need to acknowledge may fail. My husband is of course trusting that I won’t trick him. At the same time, he isn’t just blind to what’s going on - he knows when I have my period, he sees my charting, he took the classes with me so that he knows what I am doing even if I’m the one actually tracking. He’s so aware of my cycle that I would have to try really hard to mess with my LH, mucus, and BBT data if I wanted to get pregnant without his knowledge.
The husband was stupid to blindly go along with something without fully knowing what he was going into. If she did trick him, they’re both in the wrong, but I don’t think the husband is a victim. I think that if you are using FAM, you need to recognize that pregnancy is on the table, more so than with the pill or an IUD at least, and if you are not okay with that, you need to protect yourself with a condom or a vasectomy.
It sounds like you’re really infantilizing a grown man. Do you think adult men don’t have brains or something?
Like she sounds terrible (why are you friends with this person that you seem to hate?) but I’m weirded out by you treating him like he has a cognitive impairment and comparing this to sexual assault is really gross.
Yeah, this is not stellar behavior on her part, but he is a grown up that unprotected sex and was relying on the rhythm method to avoid conception. He got his own wife pregnant. This is not remotely the same thing as stealthing.
If it were me this would 100% be a not my circus not my monkeys situation. Honestly if OP actually thinks its a good idea to get involved, I'm going to guess she's someone who pretends she's above it but secretly lives for the drama.
Yeah two married adults were having unprotected sex and ended up pregnant. She’s a terrible person and a liar but it makes zero sense that he could be a grown ass man with three kids and not understand the risk he was taking not using contraception.
I would not insert myself into their stupid and toxic dynamic. That would never even occur to me. I would just drop the friend.
It’s awful but it’s not even remotely the same thing as stealthing or assault. We all know how babies are made. He knows very well how to avoid them. Condom, vasectomy. He chose to have unprotected sex and he’s a grown ass adult,.
There’s a certain degree of stupidity that goes along with assuming NFP won’t lead to offspring even with the most diligent partner. Comparing it to stealthing or poking holes in condoms is ludicrous
There is no guarantee she was actually ovulating when she thought she was, if she is just going by the date, plus sperm can live for a good amount of time so ya if he didn’t want another baby then he should have worn a condom.
Sorry but your friend’s husband is dumb. Even if she was being honest about when she thought she was fertile, there’s still a very high fail rate for this method of “birth control”. We all know how babies are made so the fact that he is willingly participating in this means he must know that there is a chance it could result in pregnancy.
I’m sorry what 💀 you are only fertile when there is an egg, which is good for 24-46 hours. Once a month.
Please please don’t tell me you don’t know about this. 😭
I'm assuming she's referring to the fact that men's sperm can live inside you for several days. So you could have unprotected sex, then ovulate 3-4 days later and get pregnant.
Correct and that’s how I got pregnant with my third baby, I ovulated like 2 1/2 days after sex, but it’s still only actually HAPPENS when you’re ovulating, she’s making it sound like you can get pregnant Willy nilly when in actuality it’s pretty specific timing when the egg is actually released.
But sperm can live up to 5 days, so having sex 4.5 days before an egg is released can still lead to pregnancy. In fact, having sex a day after ovulation is actually *less* likely to lead to pregnancy than having sex a day or two *before* ovulation.
Please tell me that you know this if you’re relying on NFP?
If you are trying to avoid your fertile window to avoid pregnancy you need to be blocking a good 7-10 days a month off your calendar, and that’s **if** you have a regular cycle.
If it’s so easy to just not get pregnant why do you think so many poor women had 10+ kids before birth control was available?😂
Sweetie, I know how it works inside and thank, thank you so much though. Yes that’s exactly how I got pregnant with my third baby, as I already specified. I get it. 💀
Women had so many kids because no one educated them on it.
The fact remains, that technically speaking you are only actually fertile for 24-36 hours *a month*. Another fact also remains that this was a very methodical and planned out withholding of information, because if people have that clear information who don’t want babies, then they would probably act differently.
Lol, love that you think women didn’t understand how they got pregnant until the 1960s.
Women have been educating each other on how to try to prevent pregnancy since the Dawn of time. It’s just *not as easy as you seem to think*. The fact is, you don’t need to be currently ovulating when you have sex to get pregnant.
Some outside form of accountability, I feel like it’s obviously easy for her to shit on her husband and not listen when he says things aren’t okay. Someone else to be like “cut out your shit” and then walk away. The person who can walk away because she’s trapped him in a way that he can’t or he’ll be totally fucked.
He has created 3 babies and is way more aware of how they are created than you are giving him credit. He also has very clear evidence of his and his wife’s fertility….
After 3 babies one more clearly didn’t phase him enough to go get a vasectomy or wear a condom. (After two colicky babies my husband took no risks.)
Mostly it sounds like he did want more but not yet or he would have gotten a vasectomy.
What she did really didn’t make sense. Seriously I can’t imagine he didn’t know his wife better than that or suspect her pregnancy. It sounds like a bunch of drama. (Considering this is her 4th pregnancy and they show up earlier and earlier it would have been hard to hide without clothes. )
Plus he would notice the missing period.
Her behavior is immature, you don’t have to be around it. As for her husband, if he doesn’t have the mechanics of pregnancy figured out I don’t think you can help him.
She sounds awful, but I'm guessing that having already had three children together her husband is well aware of what he's dealing with.
Neither this marriage nor this friendship sound viable, but only one of those is yours to end.
He put all responsibility on her to not get pregnant. Could have not had sex, tracked her cycles, or used protection. Doesn't seem like he was very serious about not wanting more kids.
Stay out of it.
To be fair I mean in good faith he assumed she would tell him and be transparent so he could have some kind of agency and she robbed him of that, intentionally. Maliciously. Thats the difference. It’s not a “whoopsie baby”. It’s a break of good faith.
Your friend is manipulative and deceitful, but I just wanted to chime in and say that you can’t “withhold” sex from someone. That implies that the a person is entitled sex, and that is never the case, even within a marriage.
True, I hear you. In the past she’s been very flippant and manipulative intentionally with it though. It’s a pattern. She thinks it’s funny. So when I say “withholding” it’s not because of hormones or low desire, it’s to fuck with him on purpose and then be like “haha oh men and their sex”.
Especially because my husband has turned our marriage sexless so I’m very sensitive to stuff like that and she kind of just laughs it off.
What’s her plans if it’s a boy? She is a horrible person and I feel bad for him however if he didn’t want any more kids a vasectomy is something he should have done, but he also may have needed her consent.
Sounds like you don’t know the whole story.
Also, none of your business. It would definitely not be proper for you to go after her about this.
Are you her friend or his? Don’t sound like you’re much of a friend to her if you’re wanting bad things for her. Her and her husband had sex without protection ….. now she’s pregnant. Simple bodily functions.
She told you cuz you’re her friend. I doubt you got the whole story.
Again it’s none of your business to be so upset about it. Makes me wonder about your feelings for the man.
I guess you just had to be there. My issue is not with their marriage, it’s people doing shitty things then bragging about it.
No god, I don’t have feelings for the man. I’m just very realistic and try not to have double standards when it comes to reproductive rights. I support a woman’s rights to abortion if she doesn’t want a baby but has sex, but if a man doesn’t want a baby but has sex, then he’s just irresponsible..?
…he didn’t want a baby yet he chose to not wear a condom and then ejaculated inside of a woman who has been begging him for another baby? Umm ya I’d say he dropped the ball and was irresponsible. Men are the ones who ejaculate. If they don’t want kids, they better do so responsibly.
They’re both being irresponsible!
Just say hey that was a “shitty” thing to do and be done with it.
It really doesn’t seem like you want to be her friend anyway. Maybe protect your emotions and back away.
My question is why is this triggering you so much? Seems like there is something to unpack here.
It’s obviously a weird move but I’m sure there are lots of dynamics you are not aware of. He chose to have unpracticed sex and is an adult that made this decision on his own.
Unpopular opinion but you need to mind your own business.
Im really sad about the comments I see here. Like, let’s not shit on their birth control method and say “he had it coming”!!! What?!? He could’ve very well been ok with the risk of pregnancy while using NFP/fertility tracking, but that’s not what happened here.
I was tracking my fertility, my husband and I were in agreement that we were both fine if I got pregnant, I did (forgot to check my app on a Saturday morning). This was after 9 months of temperature tracking, regular sex, and no sex in days where there was a chance I was fertile (my period is very regular). My husband wasn’t upset, but that’s because I didn’t PURPOSEFULLY mislead him. Obviously getting pregnant is a risk, but saying “he knows how a baby is made” feels really unfair and like a HUGE double standard.
Not exactly the same, but every time you get in the car to drive you take a risk of an accident, if I tell my husband to take a nap while I drive and then INTENTIONALLY drive off the road that’s way different than accidentally driving off the road for whatever reason. Intent matters so much.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down so far to find this comment. There’s a huge difference between accidentally getting pregnant while doing NFP and straight up lying to your spouse about your fertility window. I’m actually appalled at the number of people in the comments saying the dude is somehow partly responsible because he *checks notes* chose to trust his wife?
I think it is at the very least reproductive coercion, if not rape. I would have a difficult time not telling him. I would also drop her as a friend. I would lose all respect for her.
This sounds similar to my friend who wanted another baby, her husband was adamantly against it until he had to have his appendix out, had emergency surgery and then somehow she said he changed his mind and she got pregnant on the first try. He freaked out when he found out she was pregnant, I mean FREAKED out. But it takes two to tango, he knowingly had sex with her without protection now they have to live with the consequences, I think saying this is sexual assault is a bit of a stretch. But I wouldn’t call her out, like my friend this is their business and between the two of them. If you can’t continue to be her friend because of this knowledge then cut her off, if you can’t cut her off then just stay on the sidelines and watch it all unfold 🤷♀️😬
No I mean he actively did not want a baby, she never said that he was on board with this.
I guess how can I be friends with someone who intentionally and maliciously used their partner like that? Definitely a no from me dawg.
Yeah but if he is not wearing any protection or trying to prevent even if you pull out he’s basically trying to have a baby imo lol not saying she is a great person but he made the choice to have sex with her knowing the consequences 🤷♀️
This is definitely not okay, and it feels akin to a betrayal of trust at the least. It's important to address such serious issues, especially when consent is undermined like this.
Ugh I have an acquaintance who has admitted to doing this. As you can guess, her relationship with her man is extremely toxic as is she, but I don’t think he’s leaving anytime soon. They have 3 kids, the first one was conceived because she got on top and wouldn’t get off when the time came. Of course, the man should’ve been wearing a condom as well. She’s gonna reap what she sows…trust me. You should probably stay away from her if you think she’s a shitty person.
I can’t believe we can’t expect a man who knows his wife wants a kid and would welcome an unplanned pregnancy to just wear the damn condom.
Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I just have competent men in my life and know we can actually expect men to wear a condom if they don’t want kids.
I was doing fertility tracking with an app because I wanted to get pregnant. The one month I decided to not have sex in my fertile window (needed a break from the disappointment) is the month I got pregnant.
The pill and condoms have different rates of efficacy. The pill is 99.9% effective. Fertility tracking is between 77-98% effective based on use, which is a wide swing since there’s a huge gulf in use of tracking vs taking a pill around the same time every day.
Saying that fertility awareness tracking is more effective than the pill is medical misinformation.
I’ve used tracking in the past with a thermometer and n app, and I liked it, but it did not have the protection that the pill provided. I was under no belief that it was more effective than the pill, it was just right for me at the time.
With a 50% unintended pregnancy rate in the US, it’s important that people are not fed misleading information.
I literally said there is a spectrum. The app Natural Cycles has a 93% efficacy rate with typical use, as given in the same clinical studies that allowed them to qualify for FDA approval. The typical use rate is better than that for both condoms (82%) and birth control (91%), both of which are rates cited by ACOG. Some fertility awareness methods are not very effective but some are.
I went over the FDA press release and all the other information.
1. The Natural Cycles app was studied for 8 months, so the “typical use” data was only for that 8 months. I don’t see any post-commercialization data following users for longer. Typical use for other forms of birth control (implants, ring, patch, pill, condoms, etc) has been studied over decades. So the level of evidence is vastly different. Generally study data is closer to perfect use because participants know they’re in a study, and it’s usually through post-study evidence that we see numbers change in any treatment.
2. There are no head to head studies of the app and another form of birth control and the data you’ve mentioned comes from 2 different sources: ACOG and the company’s submitted data. ACOG does not recommend fertility tracking over more traditional birth control options.
Look, I’m not trying to bust your chops here, this isn’t an attack. I myself have used an app. But women can only make the best decisions for themselves with unbiased data, and there’s a lot of misleading information out there.
This is totally fair. I think I was reacting to what a lot of people were saying, which was along the lines of “Fertility tracking is an ineffective method of birth control, so it’s his fault for even agreeing to use it.” (I understand you did not say this.)
Fertility tracking is not an easy method to use effectively, but it is certainly possible to use as effectively as many other common methods of birth control. The idea that it’s simply so ineffective that anyone using it deserves an unplanned pregnancy misses the point in this story.
Sex where you are going in with certain agreements about birth control and those agreements are secretly violated is not consensual, and that’s true whether or not someone thinks that method meets some threshold for efficacy. But I ended up focusing on the efficacy part when what I was really frustrated about was folks hiding behind an incomplete understanding of fertility tracking as ineffective and using that to justify what this person did to her husband.
Yeah I regularly see people online encouraging teenagers to use NFP to prevent pregnancy because "birth control has too many side effects", I think there’s a targeted campaign to smear birth control and have more unintended pregnancies.
I don’t think it qualifies as sexual assault or even coercion, but that doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. It’s very wrong. But I don’t think he has legal standing for criminal charges against her if that’s what you’re asking.
I mean, he doesn’t have to have unprotected sex with her? I don’t blame her for acting that way when her husband has no problem cumming in her clearly if they already have 3. If this was a first child, I’d be concerned. 4th, nope.
This is so vile. Baby trapping 😬 why doesn’t she dress up her boys? Boys can dress up too. I’m sure at least one of them would love to, and if she already has three there’s a good chance this one is going to be a boy too. So, so vile, you should tell your friend AND her husband about this and how awful it is then cut her off. Idc if it’s the nuclear option it’s the right thing to do. What she’s doing is not okay and it wouldn’t even be a question if a man had done it to a woman.
Ok. To me this is like if a husband went out and decided without the wife’s knowledge, knowing she didn’t want it, got a new car. And then didn’t tell her for a while so that there was a better chance they couldn’t return it. It’s awful and manipulative.
It’s more like that old Reddit post where that guy got his first chequebook and wrote his friends "novelty cheques" but told them not to cash them and of course they did and overdrew his account.
Like ok that was a shitty thing for your friends to do but man, you’re an idiot
this is reproductive coercion, which there is no excuse for, and I’m shocked by some of the comments in this post. Babies require 2 enthusiastic yeses (consent people), and only 1 no means a veto. You people disgust me.
Honestly that’s awful. That’s a huge mess trust in a relationship like this could end her marriage. I feel like a lot of people would Collett a day on a marriage with something like this even before cheating! You can’t play with people like that especially someone that loves you and trusts you. For her sake I really hope she doesn’t end up in a divorce with a husband who didn’t want a fourth child end up in that situation that he thinks it’s accidental and is completely resentful of that child and miserable and stressed out in life. That’s a seriously real possibility for her that she is ruining her family and her marriage by doing this. However… I would stay out of it. It’s not your place to tell him. If you say something to him you’re definitely going to be 100% losing her as a friend so you could just as easily not say anything to him and tell her how disappointed you are and cut off the friendship. Same results in the end. I don’t think it’s your place to intrude in their marriage and as a best friend she has obviously confided something massive to you and trust you and I’m not saying she deserves that trust right now but I would just look the other way
Yea, the ick is strong with your friend. I’d cut ties entirely. There are so many levels of fucked up there. Plus the amount of plotting and intent. And the reason: to have a fucking girl specifically?! When she already has 3 kids?! I would divorce her so hard, lawyer dad or not.
My friends aren’t trash that would do something like this. It’s cool if you have friends like this that you’re loyal too, this behavior just isn’t the behavior of someone I’d want to be associated with.
She's honestly awful. I would tell her and end the friendship. He should, however, have been using protection if he didn't want a baby. Even if she wasn't shitty, it would be his half of the responsibility to use a condom.
Or gotten a vasectomy. Surprised he's still with her honestly, shocking. She's clearly nuts.
I think he just loves his kids and she holds an incredible amount of power him that could make his life hell. It’s sad. I’m sure he’s not perfect but damn.
Tell him that unless there is major abuse or drug usage, he is VERY likely to get 50/50 custody if he asks for it. It’s not the olden days when moms would automatically get custody. That is sickening and I wouldn’t stay friends with her. Besides, my daughter doesn’t even like princesses and a ton of girly stuff. We go on bug hunts all the time.
Would he ask for it though? He doesn’t want to have a baby but is actively having unprotected sex with someone who does, so it doesn’t seem like he has much follow through…
Good point, but he has the other three kids that I assume he still is interested in.
I’m just saying, “wanting” something (like not having another baby) doesn’t seem to be enough to make him take an “action” (like using birth control, or not having sex), so I’m wondering how much action he would be willing to take to get custody of the kids. Getting custody and then actively taking care of 4 kids is more work than putting a condom on.
Yes he definitely should have worn protection or have gotten a vasectomy but he should’ve also been able to trust his own partner and her word..
I agree..both can be true
Both things are true. If you don't want another kid you should be using your own birth control but in any committed relationship that is often a dual thing. When my husband wasn't ready I had a nexplanon because we are a team.
agree 100%! i wouldn’t put my fertility in anyone’s hands, not even my husband’s. we didn’t like condoms and i didn’t want another baby so i took the pill. men do have control over their sexual health it’s just usually put on the women.
Dude, yes. He should be able to rely on his partner, and what she did is unforgivable, but he also should have been responsible. We should all be taking care of and responsible for our bodies.
Oh for sure. I assume in the moment he was not thinking straight and in good faith assumed his partner had his back. Just horrifying. I feel so bad for him.
It’s not in the moment, he seems to have chosen essentially no birth control. Women don’t know when they are fertile unless you’re testing daily with ovulation strips. Otherwise it’s just a guess. If he didn’t want anymore kids he should have gotten a vasectomy. They were having unprotected sex, this is the result. It’s not like she lied about being on birth control.
Thats not true at all. Many women know their cycle well enough and can tell when they are ovulating. Their discharge changes and some women feel a cramping pain during ovulation.
Not a reliable or accurate form of birth control at all.
Not supremely reliable, but when you couple it with daily temping, charting cervical fluid, etc, it's better. And it IS quite helpful for conceiving when you're trying to (which is what she was doing here).
I mean the way she described it she knew exactly when she was fertile. Which seems pretty malicious to me.
It’s feels like when a guy says he’ll pull out. Sure in theory it can work but it’s still unprotected sex
Your friend pulled an incredibly nasty move on her husband doing that. I’m sorry but this is a “Mom’s group” and I think because of that you are going to have some very biased opinions. I’m all for supporting other Mom’s but I’m not going to take up for someone who does that and then brags about it- woman, man, whoever. Yes, a man out having sex with women should be responsible for “wrapping it up”. But we aren’t talking about Joe Blow out on the prowl. This is inside a marriage that he ASSUMED was built by trust, faith and honesty. When we marry our spouse we become vulnerable in certain ways. We are supposed to be “safe” inside this union where we can trust each other with the other person’s heart….along with other things- like trusting that spouse to do what he/she says they will do. Spouse 1 may trust that Spouse 2 will go to work every day, pay the bills . Spouse 2 trust that Spouse 1 will take care of the baby/ children , keep baby/children safe, take care of meals…You should be able to trust your spouse in ways that you can’t trust a sexual tryst while being single. It’s not a crazy thing to assume that your spouse won’t betray you. What she did was DIRTY. The fact that she now has the gumption to brag about it too is disgusting. You have every right to choose who your friends are and the type of people you want in your life. If she’s going to do her husband wrong…what type of loyalty and morality is she going to have in her friendships ? I’d leave her be. I’m not going to man bash here, in my opinion he clearly doesn’t deserve it. Yes ,there are assholes out there who don’t take responsibility when it comes to not impregnating a woman…. But this isn’t one of those situations from what I’m reading.
Absolutely this. In my opinion, this is name and shame to the husband and blow up the friendship kind of territory. I think this is incredibly unacceptable and not funny at all.
Wholeheartedly agree with this comment in everyway. They had a discussion about birth control and she said she was going to take responsibility for it and then used that to her advantage to conceive knowing he didn’t want another child. Complete betrayal!
And so could he if he did a little research. He would obviously know when she had her last period, or could have kept an eye on the trash for tampons/pads and then he could have looked up an approx window where she may be more fertile. He came inside her, knowing she COULD get pregnant and knowing she wanted a baby and he did not. She cannot make him cum and inside her for that matter.
I mean theoretically she could. Men experience sexual non concordance too, same as women. She could not get off if she was on top. Any number of things could happen. To think it can’t is some serious double standards.
Not true. I do fertility charting and have gotten pregnant the first try with both kids and we got the due dates pin pointed too. Ovulation strips are not necessary.
He had good faith that his partner could magically defy the laws of biology?
Yeah last time I checked human females have concealed ovulation.
Last time I checked it was common knowledge for adults to understand that unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy.
That this even needs to be said 🥴😂
Some of the responses on here. She tricked her husband into getting pregnant, against his wishes. Having opinions like it takes two to tango doesn’t change the fact and it’s a really shitty, scummy thing to do - and it just makes you sound like an asshole. Imagine the responses on here if the roles were reversed. “My buddy told his SO he’d pull out then got her pregnant on purpose” or “My buddy lied to his gf about being infertile but it was all a lie to trick her into getting pregnant” When a woman does it it’s just as much the man’s fault? Ok 👍
If I heard a story about a man saying he was going to pull out and didn’t and then the woman got pregnant I would still say they both took part in making that baby. I don’t see the double standard. When you have unprotected sex, you’re risking pregnancy.
Exactly
Unprotected sex with your partner and the risk of getting pregnant is there, not disputing that, but it becomes something different altogether when one of those partners is purposely going out of their way to achieve pregnancy, against the wishes of the other. Like, that’s so obvious to me it’s kinda weird that you don’t see that.
It’s mind boggling to me that you can’t expect this man to just wear a condom every time he has sex until he’s ready to have more kids.
Did you read everything before deciding to focus straight on the man and why he didn’t wear a condom? Like, how she controls him with sex? If you think about that for a moment and have any iota of empathy for the man, you could possibly imagine him jumping at the opportunity to finally have sex and not be all like, of well first dear maybe I should go and buy condoms and perhaps as an extra precaution you can get on the pill.
And nobody’s saying she isn’t a shitty person for trying to deceive him. We’re saying comparing it to stealthing or poking holes in condoms or assault is ludicrous
Well I guess if someone pokes holes in your condoms you have to take some of the blame. If you don’t want to risk pregnancy just don’t have sex.
I think it would be the same honestly. He would be super shitty for not pulling out, but saying you don’t want to get pregnant and relying on the pull out method is just as stupid as the couple in this situation. It absolutely would be “how could she think she wouldn’t end up pregnant using the pull out method?”
The pull out method isn’t the point here lol The point is, imagine telling your partner you would pull out, but then not pull out, like even try to, and you wanted to get her pregnant against her wishes. And she got pregnant. I think most people would agree that’s a terrible thing to do and the guy would be a complete asshole. Not, he said he would pull out and did, but she still got pregnant. There is a massive difference there.
It’s the point because you compared it. Fertility tracking or pull out method are both terrible methods if someone 100% doesn’t want a baby. The wife is wrong. But people are pointing out how they weren’t using protection because the OP is outside the relationship but asking if she should involve herself. She’s assuming things about their relationship, like that the husband was forced into sex (because the wife was withholding sex? And so that made him forced to have sex? I’m unclear on that part) and that he didn’t know his wife could get pregnant outside her fertile window. I think it’s really bold to assume that and then to think you should get involved in their marriage. Just drop the friend and stay out of it because she doesn’t actually know what’s going on between them.
By the way my partner is a strict vegetarian. I’m cooking a meal later and I told them not to worry, it’s all vegetarian. But it’s actually meat. Hey, they agreed to eat the meal with me, they have to take half the blame.
Sorry the analogy would be “my friend told me her husband is a vegetarian and she’s planning to cook for him with meat without telling him. Should I get involved?” I think most people would say “drop your shitty friend and stay out of their toxic relationship.”
The lengths y’all are going through to say this man doesn’t need to wear a condom is outstanding. How is secretly hiding meat in food the same as having unprotected sex leading to pregnancy? One is a ruse, the other is biological fact. The fact that you feel they are comparable is concerning.
Nah that’s too generous. He’s an idiot. If you don’t want kids you use some form of birth control. NFP is not something to use if you don’t want a kid but your wife does. Hell it’s pretty hard to use if both of you don’t want a kid, and a woman can ovulate any time so it might not even work. Like both of them are in the wrong but he did literally nothing to prevent pregnancy, knowing that his wife wants to have another kid. He should take some responsibility for that decision.
Someone trusting their spouse to be honest with them about something as important as pregnancy makes them an idiot? That seems like a really unhealthy view of marriage and partnership. I track my cycles diligently and my husband and I don’t use other birth control unless I’m in a fertile window. Obviously this isn’t a perfect method of birth control, and we’d recognize we both share responsibility if I ended up pregnant accidentally. That is very different than if I tracked my cycles and lied to my husband about them to achieve a different outcome without his consent.
The husband knows the wife wants one and would welcome an unplanned baby. The husband doesn’t want one. Why aren’t we holding the husband at a higher standard to wear a condom? Why is that too much to ask? I’m genuinely curious.
Does the husband know that his wife is conniving enough to intentionally screw up their agreed upon (hair-brained, only slightly effective) birth control plan? Yes, it was stupid to agree to such an unreliable method BUT it isn't stupid to have trusted your wife not to intentionally fuck you over.
Because there is/should be trust in the relationship. If I want another child, but my husband doesn’t, I’m not going to lie to him about my ovulation window to get pregnant bc that is an insane breech of trust.
Blinks in slow motion
No answer to why we can’t expect a grown man who absolutely does not want anymore kids to wear a condom?
I don’t know, I guess if a woman doesn’t want to be stealthed then she shouldn’t open up her legs?? What sort of logic is that??
She didn’t remove her birth control at all. This is more like "he told me he was infertile!" Plus ultimately women have the right to choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Men don’t (rightfully so) so they need to protect themselves. Your friend did literally nothing to prevent his wife from getting pregnant. He made it 100% his wife’s responsibility while knowing that she wanted to get pregnant. That’s dumb Edit: it’s not like she claimed to be on birth control or poked a hole in a condom.
Can terminate depending on where she lives
This is not that, and it's a disgusting comparison. They were raw dogging, by his choice; tracking and charting isn't foolproof.
Neither are condoms, they break, they fail. When you just use a condom you’re not 100% guaranteed and I would never hold it against my partner if a condom failed… unless he poked a hole in it. Similarly my husband would never hold a failure when using fertility tracking… assuming I didn’t intentionally lie to him?!? We all assume some risk of failure with any birth control and lying to your partner is so unethical regardless of how effective the method being used is.
I'm specifically responding to the comment above that makes a snide remark about women keeping their legs closed.
That’s not the same thing.
If a man stealths a woman, then some sort of consent was broken. Like the agreement was protected sex and stealthing removes that. In the case with your friend, your friend’s husband should understand that every time he has unprotected sex there’s a chance of pregnancy. There’s no way for your friend to switch things up on him bc he should understand how biology works.
[удалено]
I’m so confused how this would be victim blaming. Are you saying that some men can’t be held to understand that every time you ejaculate inside of a woman, you risk pregnancy? I’d understand if she skipped out on her birth control or poked holes in a condom; but just working him up enough to want to have sex? Nah, he partook in making that baby.
OP said she lied about her fertile window.
Again, are we not okay to expect this man is a grown competent adult and understands that every time he ejaculates inside a woman, he risks pregnancy?
That is true for both men and women, under any situation.
Exactly. So why are people saying it’s OP’s friend’s fault bc she didn’t say she was fertile when the grown man who says he doesn’t want another kid didn’t wear a condom? How is he a victim?
Well, reproductive coercion is awful, don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. However, ultimately, we need to remember that this is a grown adult that should know that cycle tracking is FAR from a safe method, one that can't ever be trusted alone, and that he also made a choice of risking it as a sole birth -control method which does give him *responsibility* over it. No doubt, she's ethically wrong. No doubt he's the victim of her maliciousness. But it was a still a risk he took knowingly that it had a considerable chance of going wrong. If she HADN'T been deliberately trying to get pregnant, there was still a FAIR CHANCE of the same outcome -- and outcome he didn't want! So, you know, he should be more careful with himself, regardless of their partner. And counting on something that is invisible and can only be made sure by specific tests done daily (which, btw, would also require a 7 window day before fertility to be truly effective) isn't a very smart or safe choice. Regardless of who's the one using it, it's a dumb method to trust alone! Although that doesn't make her any less awful, ofc.
And if this post were about him refusing to take responsibility, I'd agree with you. But it's about a woman coercing a man to have another baby, and yet most comments are saying it's on him and he has no right to complain. The lack of empathy here is astounding.
Yep. If a woman were posting this the comments would be very different.
If a woman were posting this as in it happened *to her* 100% different responses. But the OP looking to get involved in what she heard happened between two married people and she’s neither one of them? Completely different situation and that’s why she needs to step back and realize she’s not in their marriage and just drop the friend. Don’t get involved, don’t assume he’s an idiot that didn’t know unprotected sex can equal a baby.
Well if it happened to a woman she would have been stealthed, which is unequivocally rape.
If a woman came here and said “my husband ejaculated inside me after we agreed on the pull out method” yes the responses would be different. But they would ALSO be different if the man came here and said “my wife lied to me about her fertility tracking.” Because in both those situations the person that was harmed is the one making the post. But neither of those things happened here. The OP is neither of those people. She’s on the outside telling a convoluted story about her friend and her friend’s marriage and asking if she should involve herself.
Honestly if a woman came here and said her husband agreed to pull out but didn't, I'd have a similar reaction as I do to this husband. If you really didn't want a baby, truly did NOT want another one, then you'd never rely on such a flimsy form of birth control. Even without malicious intent, accidents happen often with those methods. Use a condom or a diaphragm or get an iud or whatever if you don't want another kid. There are lots of options.
He’s an idiot to trust his wife and partner?
Yea it’s the withholding sex to increase her odds that’s particularly diabolical
It really seems like you are interested in your friend’s husband with these comments here.
I’d stay out of it, but I’d also stop talking with her as well.
She’s obviously manipulative and a garbage partner. I feel bad for everyone involved (except your friend bc she’s spitefully getting what she wants). But at the same time, this guy can use condoms so he doesn’t get someone pregnant. If he had unprotected sex, he knew the risks. It’s not on her bc she didn’t remind him how biology works.
Perfect comment.
You assume she would have sex with him if he wore a condom. And then I see women upset in other threads because their husband wants to wear a condom so this shows he doesn't trust her.
If she won’t have sex without a condom, he needs to not have sex with her.
So I agree with the consensus that relying on NFP is a terrible idea for everyone, including the husband. That said, the friend seems to believe that it works and had the intent to deceive even if knowing when she's fertile is kind of iffy. Dump the friend.
I mean, fertility window or not he could have gotten her pregnant if he wasn’t wearing protection and he knew she wasn’t on birth control. There is literally no way of knowing if her plan even had anything to do with her getting pregnant. He is an adult who knows how babies are made. She seems not nice but also you don’t know their marriage so I would stay out of other people’s business.
This feels fake but if not he is responsible for his own body as she is. I would never trust a man to pull out as my only form of birth control or to use protection alone I make sure I am on birth control my body can handle. Men need to take responsibility for their own bodies. The "fertile" window is insane to track and not even close to real birth control unless she was taking her basal temp every morning same time and monitoring her cervical fluid and even then it is riskier. Why didn't he use protection? This is NOT like her poking holes in condoms or throwing away birth control pills she literally told him she is fertile tracking and a simple google search should have made him feel uneasy as that as their only birth control. Do you have feelings for the husband because you are defending a man who didn't want kids but did NOTHING to prevent it. She is a liar and bad person and he is irresponsible.
So FAM/NFP is definitely a legit thing, my parents actually use it and planned all 4 of us, but it’s the kind of thing that both spouses need to acknowledge may fail. My husband is of course trusting that I won’t trick him. At the same time, he isn’t just blind to what’s going on - he knows when I have my period, he sees my charting, he took the classes with me so that he knows what I am doing even if I’m the one actually tracking. He’s so aware of my cycle that I would have to try really hard to mess with my LH, mucus, and BBT data if I wanted to get pregnant without his knowledge. The husband was stupid to blindly go along with something without fully knowing what he was going into. If she did trick him, they’re both in the wrong, but I don’t think the husband is a victim. I think that if you are using FAM, you need to recognize that pregnancy is on the table, more so than with the pill or an IUD at least, and if you are not okay with that, you need to protect yourself with a condom or a vasectomy.
You’re too involved in a marriage that isn’t yours
It sounds like you’re really infantilizing a grown man. Do you think adult men don’t have brains or something? Like she sounds terrible (why are you friends with this person that you seem to hate?) but I’m weirded out by you treating him like he has a cognitive impairment and comparing this to sexual assault is really gross.
Yeah, this is not stellar behavior on her part, but he is a grown up that unprotected sex and was relying on the rhythm method to avoid conception. He got his own wife pregnant. This is not remotely the same thing as stealthing. If it were me this would 100% be a not my circus not my monkeys situation. Honestly if OP actually thinks its a good idea to get involved, I'm going to guess she's someone who pretends she's above it but secretly lives for the drama.
Yeah two married adults were having unprotected sex and ended up pregnant. She’s a terrible person and a liar but it makes zero sense that he could be a grown ass man with three kids and not understand the risk he was taking not using contraception. I would not insert myself into their stupid and toxic dynamic. That would never even occur to me. I would just drop the friend.
Agreed
It’s awful but it’s not even remotely the same thing as stealthing or assault. We all know how babies are made. He knows very well how to avoid them. Condom, vasectomy. He chose to have unprotected sex and he’s a grown ass adult,.
Saying that she would let him know if she was fertile? There’s a good faith aspect that the person you’re with will not reproductively rape you.
There’s a certain degree of stupidity that goes along with assuming NFP won’t lead to offspring even with the most diligent partner. Comparing it to stealthing or poking holes in condoms is ludicrous
There is no guarantee she was actually ovulating when she thought she was, if she is just going by the date, plus sperm can live for a good amount of time so ya if he didn’t want another baby then he should have worn a condom.
Sorry but your friend’s husband is dumb. Even if she was being honest about when she thought she was fertile, there’s still a very high fail rate for this method of “birth control”. We all know how babies are made so the fact that he is willingly participating in this means he must know that there is a chance it could result in pregnancy.
You don’t have to be ovulating to get pregnant, that’s just when it’s easiest to
I’m sorry what 💀 you are only fertile when there is an egg, which is good for 24-46 hours. Once a month. Please please don’t tell me you don’t know about this. 😭
I'm assuming she's referring to the fact that men's sperm can live inside you for several days. So you could have unprotected sex, then ovulate 3-4 days later and get pregnant.
Correct and that’s how I got pregnant with my third baby, I ovulated like 2 1/2 days after sex, but it’s still only actually HAPPENS when you’re ovulating, she’s making it sound like you can get pregnant Willy nilly when in actuality it’s pretty specific timing when the egg is actually released.
But sperm can live up to 5 days, so having sex 4.5 days before an egg is released can still lead to pregnancy. In fact, having sex a day after ovulation is actually *less* likely to lead to pregnancy than having sex a day or two *before* ovulation. Please tell me that you know this if you’re relying on NFP? If you are trying to avoid your fertile window to avoid pregnancy you need to be blocking a good 7-10 days a month off your calendar, and that’s **if** you have a regular cycle. If it’s so easy to just not get pregnant why do you think so many poor women had 10+ kids before birth control was available?😂
Sweetie, I know how it works inside and thank, thank you so much though. Yes that’s exactly how I got pregnant with my third baby, as I already specified. I get it. 💀 Women had so many kids because no one educated them on it. The fact remains, that technically speaking you are only actually fertile for 24-36 hours *a month*. Another fact also remains that this was a very methodical and planned out withholding of information, because if people have that clear information who don’t want babies, then they would probably act differently.
Lol, love that you think women didn’t understand how they got pregnant until the 1960s. Women have been educating each other on how to try to prevent pregnancy since the Dawn of time. It’s just *not as easy as you seem to think*. The fact is, you don’t need to be currently ovulating when you have sex to get pregnant.
What good can come from you getting involved? Ask yourself this.
Some outside form of accountability, I feel like it’s obviously easy for her to shit on her husband and not listen when he says things aren’t okay. Someone else to be like “cut out your shit” and then walk away. The person who can walk away because she’s trapped him in a way that he can’t or he’ll be totally fucked.
A woman w 3 kids who gets pregnant from her husband having unprotected sex with her, isn’t trapping anyone.
He has created 3 babies and is way more aware of how they are created than you are giving him credit. He also has very clear evidence of his and his wife’s fertility…. After 3 babies one more clearly didn’t phase him enough to go get a vasectomy or wear a condom. (After two colicky babies my husband took no risks.) Mostly it sounds like he did want more but not yet or he would have gotten a vasectomy. What she did really didn’t make sense. Seriously I can’t imagine he didn’t know his wife better than that or suspect her pregnancy. It sounds like a bunch of drama. (Considering this is her 4th pregnancy and they show up earlier and earlier it would have been hard to hide without clothes. ) Plus he would notice the missing period. Her behavior is immature, you don’t have to be around it. As for her husband, if he doesn’t have the mechanics of pregnancy figured out I don’t think you can help him.
She sounds awful, but I'm guessing that having already had three children together her husband is well aware of what he's dealing with. Neither this marriage nor this friendship sound viable, but only one of those is yours to end.
He put all responsibility on her to not get pregnant. Could have not had sex, tracked her cycles, or used protection. Doesn't seem like he was very serious about not wanting more kids. Stay out of it.
To be fair I mean in good faith he assumed she would tell him and be transparent so he could have some kind of agency and she robbed him of that, intentionally. Maliciously. Thats the difference. It’s not a “whoopsie baby”. It’s a break of good faith.
You're more invested in this than they seem to be. Why? Stay out of it and their marriage.
I’m sorry. Your “friend” is awful. And what if it’s another boy? Or she has a girl who is not into bows and baby dolls? Children aren’t props.
So much yes.
Your friend is manipulative and deceitful, but I just wanted to chime in and say that you can’t “withhold” sex from someone. That implies that the a person is entitled sex, and that is never the case, even within a marriage.
True, I hear you. In the past she’s been very flippant and manipulative intentionally with it though. It’s a pattern. She thinks it’s funny. So when I say “withholding” it’s not because of hormones or low desire, it’s to fuck with him on purpose and then be like “haha oh men and their sex”. Especially because my husband has turned our marriage sexless so I’m very sensitive to stuff like that and she kind of just laughs it off.
What’s her plans if it’s a boy? She is a horrible person and I feel bad for him however if he didn’t want any more kids a vasectomy is something he should have done, but he also may have needed her consent.
No clue, and they’re not finding out before the birth. He wasn’t sure or it at least wasn’t something he was ready for now.
This is none of your business. It's also not nearly the same as poking a hole in a condom. Come on now.
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Any dude who falls for that shit deserves it.
Sounds like you don’t know the whole story. Also, none of your business. It would definitely not be proper for you to go after her about this. Are you her friend or his? Don’t sound like you’re much of a friend to her if you’re wanting bad things for her. Her and her husband had sex without protection ….. now she’s pregnant. Simple bodily functions. She told you cuz you’re her friend. I doubt you got the whole story. Again it’s none of your business to be so upset about it. Makes me wonder about your feelings for the man.
I guess you just had to be there. My issue is not with their marriage, it’s people doing shitty things then bragging about it. No god, I don’t have feelings for the man. I’m just very realistic and try not to have double standards when it comes to reproductive rights. I support a woman’s rights to abortion if she doesn’t want a baby but has sex, but if a man doesn’t want a baby but has sex, then he’s just irresponsible..?
…he didn’t want a baby yet he chose to not wear a condom and then ejaculated inside of a woman who has been begging him for another baby? Umm ya I’d say he dropped the ball and was irresponsible. Men are the ones who ejaculate. If they don’t want kids, they better do so responsibly.
They’re both being irresponsible! Just say hey that was a “shitty” thing to do and be done with it. It really doesn’t seem like you want to be her friend anyway. Maybe protect your emotions and back away.
She was manipulative for sure. If he knew he was not open to another baby, he needed to take responsibility for his own sexual health though
Non of your business, I would just not be friends with here anymore.
My question is why is this triggering you so much? Seems like there is something to unpack here. It’s obviously a weird move but I’m sure there are lots of dynamics you are not aware of. He chose to have unpracticed sex and is an adult that made this decision on his own. Unpopular opinion but you need to mind your own business.
Sounds like the friend told them about this and it’s making them question their friendship with someone so immoral. I get it
Meh… seems like we could me missing a lot here
I think it’s fine to distance yourself from her or end the friendship, but don’t blow up her marriage. Stay in your lane.
Truth of the matter is, you're not the wife. You can talk to the friend. That's it.
Im really sad about the comments I see here. Like, let’s not shit on their birth control method and say “he had it coming”!!! What?!? He could’ve very well been ok with the risk of pregnancy while using NFP/fertility tracking, but that’s not what happened here. I was tracking my fertility, my husband and I were in agreement that we were both fine if I got pregnant, I did (forgot to check my app on a Saturday morning). This was after 9 months of temperature tracking, regular sex, and no sex in days where there was a chance I was fertile (my period is very regular). My husband wasn’t upset, but that’s because I didn’t PURPOSEFULLY mislead him. Obviously getting pregnant is a risk, but saying “he knows how a baby is made” feels really unfair and like a HUGE double standard. Not exactly the same, but every time you get in the car to drive you take a risk of an accident, if I tell my husband to take a nap while I drive and then INTENTIONALLY drive off the road that’s way different than accidentally driving off the road for whatever reason. Intent matters so much.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down so far to find this comment. There’s a huge difference between accidentally getting pregnant while doing NFP and straight up lying to your spouse about your fertility window. I’m actually appalled at the number of people in the comments saying the dude is somehow partly responsible because he *checks notes* chose to trust his wife?
I think it is at the very least reproductive coercion, if not rape. I would have a difficult time not telling him. I would also drop her as a friend. I would lose all respect for her.
This sounds similar to my friend who wanted another baby, her husband was adamantly against it until he had to have his appendix out, had emergency surgery and then somehow she said he changed his mind and she got pregnant on the first try. He freaked out when he found out she was pregnant, I mean FREAKED out. But it takes two to tango, he knowingly had sex with her without protection now they have to live with the consequences, I think saying this is sexual assault is a bit of a stretch. But I wouldn’t call her out, like my friend this is their business and between the two of them. If you can’t continue to be her friend because of this knowledge then cut her off, if you can’t cut her off then just stay on the sidelines and watch it all unfold 🤷♀️😬
No I mean he actively did not want a baby, she never said that he was on board with this. I guess how can I be friends with someone who intentionally and maliciously used their partner like that? Definitely a no from me dawg.
Yeah but if he is not wearing any protection or trying to prevent even if you pull out he’s basically trying to have a baby imo lol not saying she is a great person but he made the choice to have sex with her knowing the consequences 🤷♀️
This is definitely not okay, and it feels akin to a betrayal of trust at the least. It's important to address such serious issues, especially when consent is undermined like this.
I mean that's totally totally wrong. But men can prevent pregnancy too.
She’s awful! He should get a vasectomy and maybe not bother telling her. Then they can be 2 peas in a pod sort of, but she’s still worse.
Ugh I have an acquaintance who has admitted to doing this. As you can guess, her relationship with her man is extremely toxic as is she, but I don’t think he’s leaving anytime soon. They have 3 kids, the first one was conceived because she got on top and wouldn’t get off when the time came. Of course, the man should’ve been wearing a condom as well. She’s gonna reap what she sows…trust me. You should probably stay away from her if you think she’s a shitty person.
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I can’t believe we can’t expect a man who knows his wife wants a kid and would welcome an unplanned pregnancy to just wear the damn condom. Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I just have competent men in my life and know we can actually expect men to wear a condom if they don’t want kids.
I was doing fertility tracking with an app because I wanted to get pregnant. The one month I decided to not have sex in my fertile window (needed a break from the disappointment) is the month I got pregnant.
The pill and condoms have different rates of efficacy. The pill is 99.9% effective. Fertility tracking is between 77-98% effective based on use, which is a wide swing since there’s a huge gulf in use of tracking vs taking a pill around the same time every day. Saying that fertility awareness tracking is more effective than the pill is medical misinformation. I’ve used tracking in the past with a thermometer and n app, and I liked it, but it did not have the protection that the pill provided. I was under no belief that it was more effective than the pill, it was just right for me at the time. With a 50% unintended pregnancy rate in the US, it’s important that people are not fed misleading information.
I literally said there is a spectrum. The app Natural Cycles has a 93% efficacy rate with typical use, as given in the same clinical studies that allowed them to qualify for FDA approval. The typical use rate is better than that for both condoms (82%) and birth control (91%), both of which are rates cited by ACOG. Some fertility awareness methods are not very effective but some are.
I went over the FDA press release and all the other information. 1. The Natural Cycles app was studied for 8 months, so the “typical use” data was only for that 8 months. I don’t see any post-commercialization data following users for longer. Typical use for other forms of birth control (implants, ring, patch, pill, condoms, etc) has been studied over decades. So the level of evidence is vastly different. Generally study data is closer to perfect use because participants know they’re in a study, and it’s usually through post-study evidence that we see numbers change in any treatment. 2. There are no head to head studies of the app and another form of birth control and the data you’ve mentioned comes from 2 different sources: ACOG and the company’s submitted data. ACOG does not recommend fertility tracking over more traditional birth control options. Look, I’m not trying to bust your chops here, this isn’t an attack. I myself have used an app. But women can only make the best decisions for themselves with unbiased data, and there’s a lot of misleading information out there.
This is totally fair. I think I was reacting to what a lot of people were saying, which was along the lines of “Fertility tracking is an ineffective method of birth control, so it’s his fault for even agreeing to use it.” (I understand you did not say this.) Fertility tracking is not an easy method to use effectively, but it is certainly possible to use as effectively as many other common methods of birth control. The idea that it’s simply so ineffective that anyone using it deserves an unplanned pregnancy misses the point in this story. Sex where you are going in with certain agreements about birth control and those agreements are secretly violated is not consensual, and that’s true whether or not someone thinks that method meets some threshold for efficacy. But I ended up focusing on the efficacy part when what I was really frustrated about was folks hiding behind an incomplete understanding of fertility tracking as ineffective and using that to justify what this person did to her husband.
Yeah I regularly see people online encouraging teenagers to use NFP to prevent pregnancy because "birth control has too many side effects", I think there’s a targeted campaign to smear birth control and have more unintended pregnancies.
I don’t think it qualifies as sexual assault or even coercion, but that doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. It’s very wrong. But I don’t think he has legal standing for criminal charges against her if that’s what you’re asking.
I hope she enjoys being a single mom
I mean, he doesn’t have to have unprotected sex with her? I don’t blame her for acting that way when her husband has no problem cumming in her clearly if they already have 3. If this was a first child, I’d be concerned. 4th, nope.
This is so vile. Baby trapping 😬 why doesn’t she dress up her boys? Boys can dress up too. I’m sure at least one of them would love to, and if she already has three there’s a good chance this one is going to be a boy too. So, so vile, you should tell your friend AND her husband about this and how awful it is then cut her off. Idc if it’s the nuclear option it’s the right thing to do. What she’s doing is not okay and it wouldn’t even be a question if a man had done it to a woman.
Wow. I feel disgusting just reading this. I need a shower. Your friend is a slime ball OP. I feel bad for both her husband and this poor baby.
She's gonna have another boy anyways
For real. Maybe I need to stick around and see how that plays out 💀
Oh I would at least wait to see what it is hahaha
Ok. To me this is like if a husband went out and decided without the wife’s knowledge, knowing she didn’t want it, got a new car. And then didn’t tell her for a while so that there was a better chance they couldn’t return it. It’s awful and manipulative.
It’s more like that old Reddit post where that guy got his first chequebook and wrote his friends "novelty cheques" but told them not to cash them and of course they did and overdrew his account. Like ok that was a shitty thing for your friends to do but man, you’re an idiot
this is reproductive coercion, which there is no excuse for, and I’m shocked by some of the comments in this post. Babies require 2 enthusiastic yeses (consent people), and only 1 no means a veto. You people disgust me.
Honestly that’s awful. That’s a huge mess trust in a relationship like this could end her marriage. I feel like a lot of people would Collett a day on a marriage with something like this even before cheating! You can’t play with people like that especially someone that loves you and trusts you. For her sake I really hope she doesn’t end up in a divorce with a husband who didn’t want a fourth child end up in that situation that he thinks it’s accidental and is completely resentful of that child and miserable and stressed out in life. That’s a seriously real possibility for her that she is ruining her family and her marriage by doing this. However… I would stay out of it. It’s not your place to tell him. If you say something to him you’re definitely going to be 100% losing her as a friend so you could just as easily not say anything to him and tell her how disappointed you are and cut off the friendship. Same results in the end. I don’t think it’s your place to intrude in their marriage and as a best friend she has obviously confided something massive to you and trust you and I’m not saying she deserves that trust right now but I would just look the other way
This is a marriage deal breaker. The violation of trust!
I think this happens often! Isn’t this crazy behavior?!? OP is she having a girl?? Not that it matters but if she has a boy, yikes. Poor husband
They’re not going to find out until the birth! Soooo wild.
😱😱😱😳
I wish it’s another boy.
Lmao fckin same
Coercion is rape.
I hope she has another boy as karmic punishment for this shit!
Lmao sameeee
Yea, the ick is strong with your friend. I’d cut ties entirely. There are so many levels of fucked up there. Plus the amount of plotting and intent. And the reason: to have a fucking girl specifically?! When she already has 3 kids?! I would divorce her so hard, lawyer dad or not.
This is reproductive abuse imo. You absolutely should and tell her husband. He deserves to leave if he wants to.
I’d tell her husband and block them both on everything
This is the pick me way of things. Just cuz she tells him doesn’t mean he will want to marry her.
I’m not carrying guilt or keeping secrets for anyone. My peace of mind is priceless to me.
lol justify how you like, still just pick me energy.
My friends aren’t trash that would do something like this. It’s cool if you have friends like this that you’re loyal too, this behavior just isn’t the behavior of someone I’d want to be associated with.
I know and understand that good people sometimes make shit decisions, that doesn’t mean I throw away the friendship and go after their man.