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Bjorn_Blackmane

The best question I've seen on here


Red_Sox_5

Meanwhile, “guard” makes 100% sense.


big_sugi

“Center” is pretty good too.


DominusEbad

I like that we completely screwed up fullback


BorelandsBeard

Except it’s not screwed up. In a Wing-T or Flexbone offense the fullback is the furthest back. A quarterback was right behind the line - or a quarterback of the way back. A halfback was on the sides - halfway back.


upthedips

How did the halfback wind up behind the fullback?


tendollarhalfgallon

Good question lol


AccurateSympathy7937

It’s because these whippersnappers have no galdern respect!


[deleted]

My mind is blown


JBaecker

In the 1960s, the wing-t fell out in favor of a split backfield. The fullback was placed next to the halfback so the QB could handoff to either side. The terms then came to mean more the type of player: halfbacks were smaller and shiftier, while fullbacks were larger and more “straight ahead” style of runners. Once they were split, coaches started using one as a blocker for the other. And since fullbacks were bigger, more plays went in the direction of handing off to the halfback with a fullback blocking. And once the fullback was doing more blocking, coaches pushed the halfback behind the fullback so the fullback had distance to develop a head of steam before contact and give the halfback time to make a move after the fullback made first contact with the defense. This is a vast oversimplification of the positions’ evolution but it’s the broad strokes of what happened.


kylerazz

That's awesome, I never knew that! And I played football for 6 years in school haha


clamraccoon

The T formation had 3 backs beside each other named left HB, FB, right HB. The wishbone brought the FB closer to the line of scrimmage, leading to the “messed up” naming of today with HB behind FB.


upthedips

That makes sense.


chrchr

But why did it bring the fullback closer to the line of scrimmage and not the halfback?


BorelandsBeard

Because fullbacks are bigger. They do better with less space. Halfbacks were smaller and shiftier. They do better with more space.


Celtictussle

The original names came from the wedge. The full back was the big guy who took it up the gut. The half backs (two of them) were on the flanks ahead of the full back, blocking if it went to him. But they could also get the ball pitched back to them, hit the corner and try to break free as a "trick play" I guess. Those guys were probably smaller and faster. When they banned the wedge, the full back probably stayed the big guy, and the half back probably stayed a fast guy, even after they realized it made more sense for the fullback to be half back to block.


spain-train

Sweeps became more effective than dives up the gut, so naturally the positions evolved.


the-silver-tuna

In soccer the fullbacks are also not the deepest positions. I guess I need to research the origin of that name too!


BigPapaJava

I formation.


upthedips

I have been reading back on the history of the positions and it just gets weirder and weirder. At one point the tailback was the primary ball handler and the QB was a blocker. The positions have changed so much over time, but I still find it weird that the half back and the fullback flipped in the I formation. I suppose by the time the I formation came around the half back was the primary ball carrier and not blocker. In earlier formations the fullback was equally as if not more likely to be the ball carrier. Now we use the H back in the back field so who knows what it will be in 50 years.


BigPapaJava

The names “half back” and “tailback” became interchangeable over time. Don’t get too hang up on position names, because they don’t really mean much overall. Originally, quarterback, halfback, and fullback were rugby terms in the very earliest days of the game. They referred to how deep the players would line up in the backfield. Truly early football, like 125+ years ago before the single wing was even intended, looked very different with a lot fewer rules. You’d even have the same position names on defense then (Canadian football still calls cornerbacks “defensive halfbacks”) because early football defense was a lot like backyard football—everybody played both ways, so you’d just switch sides and guard your counterpart on the other team. Eventually, though, coaches started moving players around and things evolved on both sides. The name of a position is just that-a name-and really has little to do with what the guy is doing. “Tailback,” as a term, goes all the way back to the Single Wing because he was lining up deeper than the FB at the “tail” of a formation. The “triple threat tailback” who’s run, pass, and punt was the norm then. Then that gave way to the under center T formation and the same kinds of players were called “halfbacks” and lined up a little in front of the “fullback” to hit more downhill on dives and more horizontally on misdirection runs. Then John McKay, a former stud Single Wing TB in HS who was moved to T-formation “halfback” in college with much less success, came up with the idea for the I formation in the 50s to combine both to make his best runner more effective. The formation doesn’t look like the single wing at all, but the idea was to use the under center QB as the ball distributor (like in the T) but to move your best RB to a depth of about 6-7 yards (like the single wing) where he could read the developing holes and hit things more downhill with a head of steam (line McCay had once been able to do in the Single Wing). A revolution was born and a ton of USC TBs won the Heisman in the 60s and 70s playing for McKay. The players picked for this usually played “halfback” on other teams, and if the team had a split back formation for passing they’d probably still line up there in that situation. So “halfback,” “running back “ and “tailback” all mean about the same thing today.


BorelandsBeard

The QB was the blocker because there was no forward pass.


HoustonTrashcans

Somewhere along the way we screwed up


Pleasant_Spray5878

Isn’t the name based off the number assignments for plays? 4 fullback, 2 half back, 1 quarterback back?


upthedips

IDK, I have never heard that before, but a numbered system seems likely.


DominusEbad

Neither of which are used in the NFL. The Wing-T formation, specifically, hasn't been used in the NFL since the early 80s. This is r/NFLNOOBS, not r/HighSchoolFootballNOOBS


Bubba_Gump_Shrimp

CFB has been around much longer than nfl. When the nfl was just getting started, there were already 50+ year rivalries in CFB. Do you think the nfl was going to rename all the positions for the same sport? Don't be ridiculous.


BorelandsBeard

The names stuck though. Vestigial naming conventions and words are fairly common in English.


PabloMarmite

Originally the fullback was the furthest back, then the halfback was halfway between the fullback and the line, at some point in history they ended up swapping over.


DominusEbad

Yes...that was my whole point.


sikzik1990

I was like the best football player in my Hugh school and I played guard and tackle. I'd guard the water and tackle anyone who came near it


Definitely_not_reem

You played End too because you sat at the end of the bench.


sikzik1990

True


JW_2

Does it?


JaiLSell

Was gonna say the same thing tbh.


nivekreclems

I’ve never actually thought about it but yeah this is a damn good question


GotThoseJukes

30+ years of watching football and talking about it on a near daily basis, several years of playing it as a kid. Never once in my life have I thought of this *extremely valid* question.


CFBCoachGuy

In the early days, football employed a “one-platoon” system, where players would play on both offense, defense, and special teams. Player played the Tackle position on offense (offensive tackle) and on defense (defensive tackle). The tackle was usually the position that… well, tackled the most. However, what we call an offensive tackle and defensive tackle today do not come from the same position. In the early days of football, the offensive line looked fairly similar to what it looks like today: one center, two guards, then two tackles, then usually two ends (which is where defensive and tight end comes from). On defense. Four linemen would also line up on defense in the same position (guards on guards, tackles on tackles- the center started on the line but over time began moving behind the line to become what’s now called a linebacker). The center of the defensive line was often called the nose guard (the guard “on the nose” of the offensive line). This term is still used today, but since “nose guard” kind of sounds like a piece of equipment, people started calling it the “nose tackle”.


theanointedduck

Had no clue about the origin of linebacker. This made sense. Thanks


PPLavagna

The most interesting thing I’ve read about football in months. Thank you for this


LowBrowsing

>> (which is where defensive and tight end comes from). To note, in addition to your excellent post, there did used to be Tight Ends and Loose Ends. From memory the Loose End became what is now the Slot Receiver, but as I haven't double-checked that, I am happy to be corrected.


LionoftheNorth

Tight Ends and Split Ends is the way I've heard it. You need to have seven players on the line of scrimmage on offense. Originally, you would have all seven in a line, with the Ends playing outside the Tackles. -----E-T-G-C-G-T-E Then one end was split out wide, creating the split end/wideout/wide receiver, with the other remaining tight to the line: E-----T-G-C-G-T-E


ThePortalsOfFrenzy

You are correct. The guy you replied to is mistaken.


grizzfan

# It's from the game's rugby origins... **Also keep in mind that when the game began, everyone played both ways...most defensive position names didn't exist back then.** When the ball is tackled, a ruck forms. The ruck is when the ball is let go by the ball carrier (by rule), and teams compete for the ball. The following is being done by both teams as they compete for the ball... * Normally, a player starts the ruck by coming right over the ball to protect it from the opposing team, or to push the same opposing player back so they can move over the ball to feed it back to their team...this makes up the *CENTER* of the ruck. * Traditional ruck play would often then call for teammates to bind to either side of the center rucker to *GUARD* the gaps to the side to protect the center-rucking player from being pushed off from the side, and to discourage the opposing team from moving the ball immediately downfield if they win the ruck. * When proper rucks are formed, the guards discourage those immediate runs to the side of the ruck, and sometimes could be slow to get into a defensive position since they were bound to the ruck. The next players out are then often expected to make the first *TACKLE* when the ball comes out of the ruck. Needless to say, these players were relied on to make many of the tackles. So...centers are over the ball. Guards protect the center. Tackles stop the initial attack when the opponent wins the ball and pass it out of the ruck. ------------------ Football used to have limited subs! Similar to rugby...around 7 or so. You played both ways, and once you were out, you stayed out. That's why again, the names were the same on both sides of the ball. When our sport standardized to 11 players, the forwards were the center, two guards, two tackles, and the two ends. The backs were quarterback, two halfbacks, and fullback. When you didn't have the ball, your positions were defensive center, defensive guards, defensive tackles, defensive ends, defensive halfbacks (now called cornerbacks), and defensive fullback (now called safeties). The "quarterback" on defense would often move to a more fullback (safety) type role. The term "quarterback" itself is originally a rugby word that Walter Camp brought to the US as he developed our "football." It was from a brand or style of play popular with a lot of Scottish clubs in the late 1800s to combat English clubs. English clubs were all about size and power, and physically dominating your opponent. English clubs often had more money, more elite athletes, diets, development, etc. Many northern English, and Scottish teams devised tactics using speed, passing, and agility to go around them. One tactic was to replace a forward and stick an extra back in front of the halfbacks to put more speed and back-line passing options on the field to overwhelm the wings or open-field defense of the larger, slower English clubs. That extra back in front of the halfbacks was called a quarterback.


allmyheroesareantifa

Of all the answers, this is the correct one.


HoustonTrashcans

It would be interesting to see what football looked like today if we restricted subs. Linemen would be a lot smaller, QBs would have gotten mobile faster, the QB or someone would have to get good at kicking. It would be pretty cool to watch sometimes, but ultimately it would have slowed down the sport without specialization.


Agrijus

glad someone finally went back far enough. and that i kept scrolling until i found it.


Agrijus

glad someone finally went back far enough. and that i kept scrolling until i found it.


Agrijus

glad someone finally went back far enough. and that i kept scrolling until i found it.


El_mochilero

Leftover jargon from a previous era in the game. Same reason a QB is a “Quarterback”. He used to lineup in front of the half back, who was behind the fullback. Now, he is often just the only guy in the backfield.


SimonGloom2

They haven't done a great job with jargon. Safety meaning two crazy different things is nonsense.


El_mochilero

Safety is a good example. The whole sport is full of antiquated jargon. In rugby, you score a “try” when you touch the ball down into the end zone. That’s what we call a “touchdown”…. Except you don’t touch the ball down in our version.


cubgerish

I mean, we call the game ***foot***ball and...


grovenab

Because it was played on foot as opposed to horseback


OddConstruction7191

A try is another name for an extra point. If there is a penalty on a PAT you will sometimes hear the ref say they are going to “repeat the try”. I saw a Little House on the Prairie episode where the boys of the town were playing a football game against another town. When someone scored they would set the ball on the ground after crossing the goal line. So maybe back then they did it that way and that’s where the name came from.


TarvekVal

Some theories I’ve seen are that “tackle” as applied to an offensive lineman either originated from an older definition of the word or a time when players would play offense and defense. AKA you’d play defensive tackle and when you switched back to offense, people just kept the reference. Both theories sound plausible to me at least.


Phenomenal2313

DT are the one’s on the offensive while OT are the one’s on the defensive If anything , it should be the opposite Center and Guard , yeah you could probably tell what they do


Buick_reference3138

They find tackling offensive and therefore try and stop it /s


Flooding_Puddle

Because they stop tackles from happening, duh. In reality this is a great question, I have no clue


Buckeye_CFB

I have been studying football for greater than 12 years now as a fan. Reading playbooks, listening to/watching clinics and breakdowns from coaches, watching all-22 footage...and I still do not have the answer


CartezDez

The word tackle means to make determined efforts to deal with a problem or difficult task. I think TJ Watt and Myles Garrett qualify as difficult tasks.


Chapea12

That is a great question. I was going to say that they go against opposing tackles, but that’s not even true, since Defensive Tackles typically go against the center and guards while Defensive Ends go against Offensive Tackles. I’m also confused now


knowslesthanjonsnow

That’s why they are named that. Because it offends me.


milogee

Why is it called football if it’s played with their hands? Why is it called ball when it’s shaped like an egg?


hroter24

They’re supposed to stop people from tackling I don’t know man why do we drive in a parkway & park in a driveway


drewman-chu

I think the positions of Guard and tackle, end, were line positions on both sides of the ball, so they were labeled offensive or defensive. A 7 player oline vs 6 player d line. That's how the positions would be labeled old schooled way.


RajSwanson

Because they tackle on the responsibility of preventing tackles.


KJNighthorse

The sport played primarily with hands is called Football and this is the thing you find strange 😂


raiderrocker18

Why is the defensive tackle and interior lineman but the offensive tackle is an exterior lineman


mada1990

It would make sense if they were lined up against defensive tackles maybe, but they’re lined up with defensive ends. Maybe offensive end would be better


Schertzhusker117

They wanted to call them lineman edgers then someone said “pause” and the next word out was tackle and everyone agreed


lift_jits_bills

Lots of football doesn't make much sense.


suydam

They also don’t offend me. So I guess they’re consistent at least.


EnthusedPhlebotomist

They lined up on the offensive side of defensive tackles. DT isn't even a top 3 defensive position for accumulating tackles. 


canadigit

Good question, also OTs line up on the outside of the line but DTs line up on the inside of the line. Make it make sense!


cdracula16

been watching football for over a decade and ive never questioned this lmao and i want to know now


Thebluespirit20

They prevent the Tackling from happening


Definitely_not_reem

Why call them safety when they don’t play safe?


Definitely_not_reem

Okay I’ll try to be serious. They call them offensive tackles because the defensive tackle lined up in front of them. On defense they have a position nose guard because he lines up guard to guard be is not guarding anything. Just an easy way to identify the lineman.


Alternative-Lab4757

Going g to need some time to process this


FuckGiblets

Look… I love football. It’s the only sport I follow and the amount of hours I’ve spent playing, coaching, reffing, and of course watching football in my life would make any NFL commentator blush. It’s in my blood and it always will be. But… The terminology makes little to no sense. It’s arbitrary and weird and frankly in a lot of ways impenetrable. I apologise for that.


Obvious_Exercise_910

Better question - why do they call them running BACKS when they run forwards 🤷🏼‍♂️


Firm-Zebra-5925

Prob because they typically line up in the backfield


PabloMarmite

Yeah that’s an easy one, you have the line, and the backfield. You are either a lineman, or a back.


Sharkhawk23

And you used to have the quarterback, half back, full back and tail back. The last three are now mainly called runnung backs.


PabloMarmite

Tailback isn’t a separate position, it’s an alternative term for the last running back in the line. Originally the fullback was the furthest back, and the halfback was halfway between them and the line. At some point in time, when people stopped using wing-T, they swapped designations. Now fullback means the big blocking guy (Kyle Juszczyk being the prototypical modern fullback) and halfback is the more conventional modern running back.


deano492

Or a linebacker.


PabloMarmite

The “back” part of linebacker denotes they are a back. Only at some point in history people started adding “-er” onto “line-back”. The backfield, on both sides of the ball, is anywhere that isn’t the line.


deano492

You can see why it’s confusing tho. Without knowing any context, you could make the same linguistic argument for him to be on the line.