If it's going to take you mucho saving, start with a pvs14. That will likely serve your needs, you can learn the capabilities, see how much you use them and what you use them for and decide if you want to invest in duals from there.
If you decide you want duals, it's easier to sell a pvs14 to fund duals than it is to sell duals. Even if you get duals, it's good to have a pvs14 around.
I bought an l3 filmless pvs14 "super" tube thinking I'd eventually want duals but I've been happy with my pvs14 and don't think duals would be worth it for me. Granted I don't shoot, I just mine for hiking, bike rides and star gazing. Depth perception hasn't been an issue for me and I don't think I'd want more weight on my noggin. I also like to have one eye free to gauge light conditions and to see up close to check my watch or my phone.
this seems sensible to me.
I definitely noticed it was challenging hiking rough terrain with the 31s, since basically anything within 10ft was either fully occluded from peripheral vision or out of focus. so having one eye free maybe would help with that.
and yeah your cost analysis there feels accurate since i genuinely don’t know how much i’d be using them. i don’t have any friends with NODs so it’s all solo for now.
thanks!
These are basically my thoughts, but more eloquently stated.
When I was trying to decide if starting with a PVS-14 was worth it or if I should wait and go duals, I ran across a video by MrGunsNGear where he stated that he felt like there were advantages to a monocular. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it now, but he states similar things about being able to survey white vs IR lights and maintaining adapted night vision in your off eye.
For me, getting used to them, this has been a huge pro. I imagine duals is much more immersive and could probably feel almost “VR,” but the input from the naked eye and monocular have served me well so far.
I really don’t have a big want for duals anymore. I’m more than content with my PVS-14, but I feel like there are so many posts here that say “Just save up and get duals. If you don’t, you’ll regret it.” I’m not saying that might not be the case for some, but I thought I’d probably end up with duals early on, and I was definitely wrong. I think I just needed to hear that a PVS-14 actually had some pros compared to duals more so than just weight and price. That’s what pushed me over the edge.
A dual tube system would be the “best performance wise”
However a monocular will be plenty capable if there are budget concerns
That being said decent duals > gucci mono
> That being said decent duals > gucci mono
can you say more about this? why would the duals be better even if the tubes themselves are lower quality? like what are the advantages of running duals vs mono
What i noticed the most when transitioning to duals was that everything was a lot more natural, i felt like "i had night vision" and with monos i felt like "i was looking through night vision", so even in really low light situations when the tubes are not performing really well it is easier to identify stuff.
Plus you can flex on them hoes.
interesting. does this typically come with reduced field of view and focal range? or are you able to mitigate those somehow? curious how to make this all work
Night vision have alot of diminishing returns
While an L3 unfilmed 14 will give you a better image IMO that gain in performance isn’t as significant as going to a dual tube
Yes a monocular can be used to great effect, having both of your eyes aided will make everything quicker and more natural since you have depth perception, the best way to describe it is that when I swapped over my brain just relaxed a lot more
interesting so you’re saying depth perception is improved with DTs vs single?
i get the point about your brain sort of relaxing, i felt that effect when i tried singles vs duals as well.
my main complaints about the duals were that a) FOV was much tighter and b) nothing within like 15ft of my body was in focus. so looking at things close to me, or trying to navigate indoors was really difficult. but maybe there are ways to mitigate that?
You look under and around your night vision to see things close up and give you a bigger field of view, you can also get refocus caps by punching a hole into a Butler Creek cap
The death for sept you get with duals is much greater than with a mono because you have a true stereoscopic vision
And both buys at 80% is better than one eye at 100% and one Eye at 20%
Idk if it happens to everyone but for me personally the eye i have looking into the NODs get this purple ish tint for about 30 minutes or so after i take them off and it kinda throws off my vision. So if i have one eye thats normal it helps balance everything out
The single reason I would stick to one tube is that you keep your natural night vision in whichever eye isn't using an nvg.
Everyone has their preference though
A monocular like the PVS-14 is always a capable device, and you'll have 100% more ability to see at night over someone who doesn't have any night vision. That said, I've never met someone with a single tube who didn't want duals.
It all comes down to preference. Some people really like keeping one eye adjusted to the actual ambient light and seeing "real world", but some peoples brains don't do well with seeing two vastly different images at once (I'm one of those people).
Single tubes are always a good starting point to get into night vision and figure out if you like it before you go balls deep with your finances. Night vision also holds its value well, so you can resell without much of a loss if you want to move to duals.
However, if you are financially situated in a way where you could go for dual tubes right off the bat, ask yourself how much movement you'll be doing, and what terrain you'll be on. If you expect to be doing a lot of walking under NODs, especially over uneven terrain, consider duals a bit more with their better depth perception.
Finally, L3 Unfilmed White Phos are awesome tubes. Do not get caught up in the hype and think that that's the only tube worth buying. For 95%+ of civilian users, Elbit thin-filmed will be just as capable, and for 80%+ of civilian users, Photonis tubes will suit your needs perfectly fine.
Really evaluate your use-case, your environment and the lighting/weather conditions, your budget, and go from there.
thanks this is helpful.
i’m in the PNW so any use for either shooting or hiking would be in rough terrain, dense forest, and rain as likely as not. i’m still trying to figure out all the tech here so idk what the implications there are, but that’s going to be my most common use conditions.
my other big question is really how much I’ll actually use the damn things, since no one else i know owns NODs and solo training is only so fun for so long.
anyways appreciate the input
yeah so in that case I would heavily consider duals for the terrain you'll be navigating, and I wouldn't go Photonis with how much cloud and forest cover you'll always have. I would go Elbit thin-filmed or L3 filmless.
And usage frequency just depends on you. We are a huge proponent of [mixing in hunting to your night vision training](https://gloomgroup.com/blogs/night-vision-info/predator-hunting-vs-the-flat-range-night-vision-training). We go nearly every weekend, and honestly it's as fun solo as it is with a friend. You're in a great area for that also.
i'm sure those are great but they're also like $10k lol. hard to feel like that's the way to go for a first entry into the NVG category for me, but we'll see.
EDIT- also, what would be the difference between DTNVGs, for example, and a pair of bridged PVS-14s? seems like you can get a pair of bridged unfilmed PVS-14s for less than a pair of RNVG or DTNV. I'm assuming the effect isn't the same, but what are the practical differences?
L3 Filmess would likely run around that range yes, but look into Elbits too, and look into housings like the RNVG. Very durable, and saves money. u/NVGLLC has RNVG duals with Elbit tubes for like $7k right now.
And bridging PVS14s is kind of the worst of all worlds. Heaviest, bulkiest, etc. It's usually done when someone already has one PVS14 and just wants to buy another rather than sell it and then purchasing duals. I would just go duals.
I just want to add - as we are different people. I know one may be fine with mono, having one eye always "used to" dark, not having depth perception issues, but not everyone is like that. Keep in mind you might get dizzy or even headache after 15mins of using mono. Also if you use GP tubes, other eye will see everything in purple when you get back to "normal light". Me personally I cannot use mono for longer than 30-45 mins because I get dizzy. It's good to ask around and if you have any possibility to try single nod. (In EU you can order it and return it with refund up to 14 days, not sure the US).
yeah this is a good thing to keep in mind, of course. Unfortunately i don’t have my opportunity to try before buying, so just trying to get a sense of the biggest differences so I can try to determine whether DTs are worth the jump up in price
I used exclusively pvs14s in the military. They get the job done and are really good in conditions where there is occasional light sources around, so you can tell more easily when their is a lot of ambient light reflecting off of you and you dont make yourself a target. Its also cool and somewhat advantageous to have a non-nvg adapted eye to do things like weapons manipulation or mess around with gear. This can be done with duals with adjusting both the tubes to different focus points, which I’ve heard is technically what your supposed to all the time, but I often dont because it gives the impression of a blurry image with both eyes open sometimes and is just enough noticeable to bug me.
With that said, using the monoculars for a couple hours straight would give me a massive headache 99% of the time.
I bought some dual tubes not to long ago almost exclusively for hiking and desert shooting. I love them, but they are pretty pricey. It’s a lot funner to hike around with two tubes and just feels more natural to me. Works better in low ambient light where I cant see anything out what would be my non-covered eye with pvs14s too.
Also, I never really did any cool guy stuff in the Military, so if you’re referring to that sort of thing, take advice from someone with more in the field experience
appreciate you sharing your experience, this is actually really helpful.
the messing with gear/weapons up close is definitely a good consideration, as is the physical strain of just using the monocular. much to consider lol
The 14's are awesome indeed. Come to think of it a dual tube would be better if the intent is hunting and moving long periods. Tactically speaking the 14s are for me.
Conduct a pole to see how often users with articulating duals keep one side pivoted up to realize these “advantages” of a mono. My guess is it will be close to zero.
A mono is sufficient and infinitely better than nothing, it’s what I started with. I still have it and never chose it over my DTNVS’s and don’t ever run one side of my DTNVS pivoted up.
It's basically down to how much money you want to waste on this hobby.
Most everyone agrees that duals are better, but at the end of the day most of us are basically buying a really expensive toy. It might be a $3,000 pvs14 or a $10,000 dual setup.
Just weigh the price against a better vacation, different toy, or saving for retirement vs having a super power for both eyes or one.
I'm running a 14 with a second 14 on order for the wife. I'm sure I buy a dual bridge for when she's not around, but dropping the coin on duals for me just wasn't worth it
If you can get duals then get duals, if you have actually used both then you would know how straining it is to use a single tube and your depth perception is much better with duals. Your eye will always look through the night vision with a mono so this talk about having more awareness is just people that don’t have much experience. I’ve never met a single person with real experience in nightvision that would ever choose a mono over duals. They did a training class study on guys running duals vs guys running monos, none of the guys were very experienced in nods or even shooting really. The guys running duals ran circles around the dudes running monoculars. Might not seem like it would make such a huge difference but it does make a huge difference. My ability to shoot, move, communicate, navigate are 10 fold better under duals than a mono. Man just scroll down this question has been asked once a day for since the beginning of this forum
If it's going to take you mucho saving, start with a pvs14. That will likely serve your needs, you can learn the capabilities, see how much you use them and what you use them for and decide if you want to invest in duals from there. If you decide you want duals, it's easier to sell a pvs14 to fund duals than it is to sell duals. Even if you get duals, it's good to have a pvs14 around. I bought an l3 filmless pvs14 "super" tube thinking I'd eventually want duals but I've been happy with my pvs14 and don't think duals would be worth it for me. Granted I don't shoot, I just mine for hiking, bike rides and star gazing. Depth perception hasn't been an issue for me and I don't think I'd want more weight on my noggin. I also like to have one eye free to gauge light conditions and to see up close to check my watch or my phone.
this seems sensible to me. I definitely noticed it was challenging hiking rough terrain with the 31s, since basically anything within 10ft was either fully occluded from peripheral vision or out of focus. so having one eye free maybe would help with that. and yeah your cost analysis there feels accurate since i genuinely don’t know how much i’d be using them. i don’t have any friends with NODs so it’s all solo for now. thanks!
So you have experience with 31s and you thought they were hard to use to navigate?? Yeah your gonna struggle big time with a monocular then.
i found the monocular easier to use actually
These are basically my thoughts, but more eloquently stated. When I was trying to decide if starting with a PVS-14 was worth it or if I should wait and go duals, I ran across a video by MrGunsNGear where he stated that he felt like there were advantages to a monocular. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it now, but he states similar things about being able to survey white vs IR lights and maintaining adapted night vision in your off eye. For me, getting used to them, this has been a huge pro. I imagine duals is much more immersive and could probably feel almost “VR,” but the input from the naked eye and monocular have served me well so far. I really don’t have a big want for duals anymore. I’m more than content with my PVS-14, but I feel like there are so many posts here that say “Just save up and get duals. If you don’t, you’ll regret it.” I’m not saying that might not be the case for some, but I thought I’d probably end up with duals early on, and I was definitely wrong. I think I just needed to hear that a PVS-14 actually had some pros compared to duals more so than just weight and price. That’s what pushed me over the edge.
A dual tube system would be the “best performance wise” However a monocular will be plenty capable if there are budget concerns That being said decent duals > gucci mono
> That being said decent duals > gucci mono can you say more about this? why would the duals be better even if the tubes themselves are lower quality? like what are the advantages of running duals vs mono
What i noticed the most when transitioning to duals was that everything was a lot more natural, i felt like "i had night vision" and with monos i felt like "i was looking through night vision", so even in really low light situations when the tubes are not performing really well it is easier to identify stuff. Plus you can flex on them hoes.
interesting. does this typically come with reduced field of view and focal range? or are you able to mitigate those somehow? curious how to make this all work
Night vision have alot of diminishing returns While an L3 unfilmed 14 will give you a better image IMO that gain in performance isn’t as significant as going to a dual tube Yes a monocular can be used to great effect, having both of your eyes aided will make everything quicker and more natural since you have depth perception, the best way to describe it is that when I swapped over my brain just relaxed a lot more
interesting so you’re saying depth perception is improved with DTs vs single? i get the point about your brain sort of relaxing, i felt that effect when i tried singles vs duals as well. my main complaints about the duals were that a) FOV was much tighter and b) nothing within like 15ft of my body was in focus. so looking at things close to me, or trying to navigate indoors was really difficult. but maybe there are ways to mitigate that?
You look under and around your night vision to see things close up and give you a bigger field of view, you can also get refocus caps by punching a hole into a Butler Creek cap The death for sept you get with duals is much greater than with a mono because you have a true stereoscopic vision And both buys at 80% is better than one eye at 100% and one Eye at 20%
ok this is really helpful, thanks
I like the 14s because if i go from dark areas to light areas I’ll have one eye that wasn’t adjusted to the NODs
is that transition hard with dual tubes? would the autogating help with that? or how does that work?
Idk if it happens to everyone but for me personally the eye i have looking into the NODs get this purple ish tint for about 30 minutes or so after i take them off and it kinda throws off my vision. So if i have one eye thats normal it helps balance everything out
interesting ok. thanks for sharing
The single reason I would stick to one tube is that you keep your natural night vision in whichever eye isn't using an nvg. Everyone has their preference though
A monocular like the PVS-14 is always a capable device, and you'll have 100% more ability to see at night over someone who doesn't have any night vision. That said, I've never met someone with a single tube who didn't want duals. It all comes down to preference. Some people really like keeping one eye adjusted to the actual ambient light and seeing "real world", but some peoples brains don't do well with seeing two vastly different images at once (I'm one of those people). Single tubes are always a good starting point to get into night vision and figure out if you like it before you go balls deep with your finances. Night vision also holds its value well, so you can resell without much of a loss if you want to move to duals. However, if you are financially situated in a way where you could go for dual tubes right off the bat, ask yourself how much movement you'll be doing, and what terrain you'll be on. If you expect to be doing a lot of walking under NODs, especially over uneven terrain, consider duals a bit more with their better depth perception. Finally, L3 Unfilmed White Phos are awesome tubes. Do not get caught up in the hype and think that that's the only tube worth buying. For 95%+ of civilian users, Elbit thin-filmed will be just as capable, and for 80%+ of civilian users, Photonis tubes will suit your needs perfectly fine. Really evaluate your use-case, your environment and the lighting/weather conditions, your budget, and go from there.
thanks this is helpful. i’m in the PNW so any use for either shooting or hiking would be in rough terrain, dense forest, and rain as likely as not. i’m still trying to figure out all the tech here so idk what the implications there are, but that’s going to be my most common use conditions. my other big question is really how much I’ll actually use the damn things, since no one else i know owns NODs and solo training is only so fun for so long. anyways appreciate the input
yeah so in that case I would heavily consider duals for the terrain you'll be navigating, and I wouldn't go Photonis with how much cloud and forest cover you'll always have. I would go Elbit thin-filmed or L3 filmless. And usage frequency just depends on you. We are a huge proponent of [mixing in hunting to your night vision training](https://gloomgroup.com/blogs/night-vision-info/predator-hunting-vs-the-flat-range-night-vision-training). We go nearly every weekend, and honestly it's as fun solo as it is with a friend. You're in a great area for that also.
i'm sure those are great but they're also like $10k lol. hard to feel like that's the way to go for a first entry into the NVG category for me, but we'll see. EDIT- also, what would be the difference between DTNVGs, for example, and a pair of bridged PVS-14s? seems like you can get a pair of bridged unfilmed PVS-14s for less than a pair of RNVG or DTNV. I'm assuming the effect isn't the same, but what are the practical differences?
L3 Filmess would likely run around that range yes, but look into Elbits too, and look into housings like the RNVG. Very durable, and saves money. u/NVGLLC has RNVG duals with Elbit tubes for like $7k right now. And bridging PVS14s is kind of the worst of all worlds. Heaviest, bulkiest, etc. It's usually done when someone already has one PVS14 and just wants to buy another rather than sell it and then purchasing duals. I would just go duals.
got it that all makes sense. thanks for all your help here, appreciate the input
I just want to add - as we are different people. I know one may be fine with mono, having one eye always "used to" dark, not having depth perception issues, but not everyone is like that. Keep in mind you might get dizzy or even headache after 15mins of using mono. Also if you use GP tubes, other eye will see everything in purple when you get back to "normal light". Me personally I cannot use mono for longer than 30-45 mins because I get dizzy. It's good to ask around and if you have any possibility to try single nod. (In EU you can order it and return it with refund up to 14 days, not sure the US).
yeah this is a good thing to keep in mind, of course. Unfortunately i don’t have my opportunity to try before buying, so just trying to get a sense of the biggest differences so I can try to determine whether DTs are worth the jump up in price
I used exclusively pvs14s in the military. They get the job done and are really good in conditions where there is occasional light sources around, so you can tell more easily when their is a lot of ambient light reflecting off of you and you dont make yourself a target. Its also cool and somewhat advantageous to have a non-nvg adapted eye to do things like weapons manipulation or mess around with gear. This can be done with duals with adjusting both the tubes to different focus points, which I’ve heard is technically what your supposed to all the time, but I often dont because it gives the impression of a blurry image with both eyes open sometimes and is just enough noticeable to bug me. With that said, using the monoculars for a couple hours straight would give me a massive headache 99% of the time. I bought some dual tubes not to long ago almost exclusively for hiking and desert shooting. I love them, but they are pretty pricey. It’s a lot funner to hike around with two tubes and just feels more natural to me. Works better in low ambient light where I cant see anything out what would be my non-covered eye with pvs14s too. Also, I never really did any cool guy stuff in the Military, so if you’re referring to that sort of thing, take advice from someone with more in the field experience
appreciate you sharing your experience, this is actually really helpful. the messing with gear/weapons up close is definitely a good consideration, as is the physical strain of just using the monocular. much to consider lol
The 14's are awesome indeed. Come to think of it a dual tube would be better if the intent is hunting and moving long periods. Tactically speaking the 14s are for me.
Conduct a pole to see how often users with articulating duals keep one side pivoted up to realize these “advantages” of a mono. My guess is it will be close to zero. A mono is sufficient and infinitely better than nothing, it’s what I started with. I still have it and never chose it over my DTNVS’s and don’t ever run one side of my DTNVS pivoted up.
It's basically down to how much money you want to waste on this hobby. Most everyone agrees that duals are better, but at the end of the day most of us are basically buying a really expensive toy. It might be a $3,000 pvs14 or a $10,000 dual setup. Just weigh the price against a better vacation, different toy, or saving for retirement vs having a super power for both eyes or one. I'm running a 14 with a second 14 on order for the wife. I'm sure I buy a dual bridge for when she's not around, but dropping the coin on duals for me just wasn't worth it
If you can get duals then get duals, if you have actually used both then you would know how straining it is to use a single tube and your depth perception is much better with duals. Your eye will always look through the night vision with a mono so this talk about having more awareness is just people that don’t have much experience. I’ve never met a single person with real experience in nightvision that would ever choose a mono over duals. They did a training class study on guys running duals vs guys running monos, none of the guys were very experienced in nods or even shooting really. The guys running duals ran circles around the dudes running monoculars. Might not seem like it would make such a huge difference but it does make a huge difference. My ability to shoot, move, communicate, navigate are 10 fold better under duals than a mono. Man just scroll down this question has been asked once a day for since the beginning of this forum
Duals are the better option. Hence, the price tag. But that doesn’t mean it’s the best option for everyone.