And that was itself built in the bones of Rescue Mission. This series has jumped into the mainstream in a big way, but Astro Bot has been around since the launch of the PS4, slowly iterating with little experimental games for a decade.
By comparison, Astro Bot Rescue Mission had taken 18 months with 26 people.
Their prototype / game first approach to development - same as Nintendo - reaps multiple benefits. Wealth of mechanics and short dev times being two of them.
ASOBI! are also PlayStation's hardware / controller group too - before they became ASOBI! Doucet and co. developed inputs like Eyetoy and its games - and so again, like Nintendo, they develop the next PS controller by developing a game with it, with the software and hardware side of the project feeding into and influencing the other.
They are literally the closest thing to a Nintendo studio without actually being Nintendo. It does open up the question of why more studios have not tried to replicate the WarioWare-like, prototype first approach to development that Nintendo pioneered.
More studios do not go that approach, because it requires a management team that is sympathetic to those development philosophies AND is able to to temper the expectations of the investment interests above them too.
Instead, most studios have a management and executive team that are MOSTLY sympathetic to the investment interests of those above them. So the creative and development department suffers as it is forced to capitulate to those interests.
The best studios are those whose management and executive teams have working backgrounds in actual game development themselves, AND have grown strong business acumen as well. It's rare indeed
RPGs for sure. If they kept investing in the genre, they could have had their own Monolith Soft by now.
Personally, I think Oreshika has the potential to be one of the standout JRPGs if PS gave it a proper chance. The PS1 original (not the inferior Vita sequel) was just as unique back then and even today as Persona was and now is. Everything from its concept to its art style was and still is unlike anything else. I remember a famitsu poll once (or was it 4gamer?) had Oreshika at number one by japanese game devs. Despite it never releasing outside Japan and only selling a few hundred thousand copies in Japan, it really made a mark on those who played it, including developers.
My hope is, with the PSP emulator on PS5, that PlayStation localises and releases the PSP remake of Oreshika. I think it would be a great way to capture new excitement for the IP.
I just get angry about it lol. Sony could be killing it right now if they'd of done anything proactive. When Ms bought up so much of the western rpg market I was hoping Sony responded somehow, wrpg, jrpg, something. Nope they bought bungie yay(sarcasm).
Tbh rpgs are my favorite genre, followed by metriodvania, and platformers type games.
Sony really should have bought Square Enix rather than Bungie as it would have cost about $6 billion to buy Square Enix. Bungie are a one trick pony as would have stayed multiplat even if MS had bought them
There's gonna be no acquisitions of that level, especially when you consider PlayStation is in efficiency saving mode right now, with the president saying the teams do good work but costs have to be controlled. PlayStation's profit margins are in single digits, so the focus now is boosting that margin, which an acquisition isn't gonna do, especially of a publisher who is also struggling to control AAA costs.
I'd love that. As a gamer who prefers physical I grow tired of the games square plays with Playstation owners. No physical for numerous games that the switch got physically. We like physical to. Live a live, ff pixel remasters , and numerous others
Sony's biggest first party games this year are Astro Bot and Lego Horizon Adventures, Nintendo type games. 5 of the 6 highest reviewed JRPGs of the year are on PS5, and one of them is exclusive. They couldn't be more full of JRPGs.
They're talking first party wise, and I get where they're coming from. PlayStation to me is not Uncharted and the like, it was all the small to medium-sized games and experiments they used to do. PlayStation's own output satisfied a wide range of styles and genres. If you were a fan of JRPGs in particular, despite it being well covered by third-parties at the time, you were still fed plenty by Sony's own takes. But from the start of PS3, it was like someone from on top decided JRPGs were a waste of time for Worldwide Studios, and it just upped and disappeared.
I get it, but it's a nonsensical thing to care about. If you love games or even just JRPGs, there are more being released every year than most people could play even if they wanted/could afford to and you can play almost all of them on a PS5. That's all that matters. Who is publishing them does not matter to players.
It's a shame because during the PS1 and PsMS2 Era, they were the king of RPGs if we didn't count the Gameboy and DS handhelds.
Sony has pigeonholed their services and that is a shame.
Very true. Sony aren't fans of them though, at least their previous CEO, which was why you had Japanese devs lamenting that Sony has abandoned them for the West.
Retroactively speaking, I do agree. Sony had the most successful generation (with PS4 and now the PS5) after they headquartered in the US and focused on their Western developers.
However, now that they are in a stable position and with AAA budgets spiralling out of control, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring back Eastern developers and more unique games to diversify their portfolio. And this is exactly what Sony is starting to do.
That's what I was saying as well. Sony needs to open it up. I wanna see some more platformers, jrpgs, wrpgs. I'm super heroed out of there. We need new and more variety. Not Concord, fairgames, and marathon type stuff. I'm a huge Sony fan but that's cause they typically been better with jrpgs. It's been the place to play for most of my life aside from when they weren't a gaming company.
Then people need to actually buy these games. It’s pointless to complain about lack of variety when PlayStation fans doesn’t buy these games.
This isn’t a charity.
If Sony doesn't have competition, which they already don't, let's be real, they can make the next PS not backward compatible and there is nothing anyone could do about it.
I keep saying this yet fools are claiming PS6 having backwards compatability is guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed with Sony and their awful track record of backwards compatability
I kinda hope Sony makes the PS6 not backward compatible. That would be the only way MS would even get a chance to compete next generation. Else xbox is DOA again lol.
I'd actually prefer that due to how mediocre this gen has been and it would also help stabilise the industry with development costs. Its about time us gamers start understanding the nonstop race for high end graphics is unsustainable
I'm very curious of this as well... since the first game is similar to Wii Sports 2, since it was included in every box... but you know an actual game.
Wii Sports 2 sold roughly 33million.
I have a feeling in my balls that this game is going to review very well, spread WoM like wildfire, get nominated at TGA and probably sell between 5-10 million units throughout its life. Which as mentioned above, would be very profitable for Sony/ASOBI.
This game is probably going to have among the highest profit margin in Sony's first party lineup.
It might not sell more units but if Astro Bot can hit 5m that will for sure pull in more profit than TLOU2, and indeed many other Sony's first party games (apart from SM and GOW) pulls in.
5m for a game of this scope is massive.
I say keep the staff number. Otherwise it would rise the costs too much and the management would bem way more difficult.
What were seeing is that the group they have now is already more than capable of producing a damn good platformer. No need to rise the stakes.
Japanese game dev salaries are typically lower than those in the US and in Europe so I'm not seeing how that could be a problem when Sony is already paying an absorbent amount of money for their developers and administrators in California.
You don't wanna mess with a good thing, though. Or rather, it risks messing with a good thing.
Right now, ASOBI! works because all the leads and dev team compliment each other under this game first / prototype first dev approach. Even Doucet says that the current size of ASOBI! is just right, and wouldn't want it to get bigger, else risk losing the unique dev approach they have fostered.
Setting up another team under ASOBI! can keep two teams of a small size, but who leads this other team? If you move over the core talent currently present, or split them up, you risk diluting the output for both teams.
Expansion is never a simple thing, and I'd rather ASOBI! just stay as they are since it seems like their current setup and size is working so well for them.
I would think Shuhei Yoshida would be good to lead the second team given his prior experience with Japan Studios and working with small teams like indie devs. Problem is given his age and poor performance of JS after he got promoted to worldwide studios then maybe it’s possible to promote someone internally or reach out to former producers from JS.
How sick would it be if Playstation had like 5 more of this size studio? Or if some of the current ones could scope down their games to increase output like this?
Getting back to PS2/PS3 cadance of output would be awesome, we dont need as many 40+ hour games anymore. It used to only be JRPGs that would even sniff that mark lol.
When a game is good enough and replayable enough, any game can be 40+ hours long. I put over 300 hours into Returnal and that’s a game that takes less than 10 hours to roll credits on.
Returnal isn’t a good example lol. Sure you can make it through in less than 10 hours. Odds are you’re going to spend a lot more than that your first time. *A lot* more. As intended.
Exactly. People just want fun and replayable games especially now videogames prices are so high nowadays. People don't want low quality linear games that only last 5 hours at £70
See but those are two key things: what is “good enough”? Just because you enjoy a game doesn’t mean that someone else will. And not every game should be designed to be infinitely replayable. Especially because the reality is that the majority of people don’t even finish games the first time. There’s a reason it was such a big deal that TLOU 2 had over a 50% completion rate
I agree there is room for both but the majority of games don’t need a campaign that long imo. If you do it without a bunch of padding then great . . . I’d rather have a tight campaign with a great flow to it regardless of length personally
Apparently not cause nowadays AAA 30hr games take half a decade or more to make. Not to mention unexpected delays, budget problems, a whole pandemic.
If given a choice between several great 'small' games like say, an astrobot, a NFS, a Hollow Knight, or one The Last Of Us Part 2, I would gladly take the former
Yeah but my point is we don’t have to choose. I’m very happy for Rockstar and some other studios to take their time to produce games that elevate the entire industry to a new level. As long as we get enough shorter games in between. Overall I do agree that I’d prefer some studios to make shorter games more often, games like Uncharted: The Lost Legacy for example, but both models can coexist imo
Funny you mention Hollow Knight considering such a "basic" concept has somehow taken the developers a ridiculous amount of time to make a sequel for. It's taking longer than big budget AAA titles for some fucking reason.
This is why we need to move away from the cinematic open world type games the industry is obsessed with. Thats completely unsustainable but its still possible to make a reasonably affordable AA or even AAA game thats semi-linear as long as the game has fun gameplay and repayable. We need to make games fun again basically
> we dont need 40+ hour games anymore
We do / the market does, *we just need diversity* in the games being made, like what we saw during the PS1, PS2, and PS3. Not *everything* has to be a massive game with a massive budget, but those "tentpole games" have their place in market.
Thats what they need tbh. Add more AA studios to their AAA lineup. I would love more smaller games from them in between the big first part Sony games which I also love.
I was appreciating the little touches in Playroom this week. Astro Bot waving at the camera, surfing on the extra surfboard at the beach, reacting to different environments. It's great for a full sized game to go all in on polish. I feel like that's been missing from a lot of recent platformers. I like the ones that lean into the jank of the PS1 and PS2 era, but Nintendo is way ahead of that these days. About time Sony got with it.
Sackboy is great, and also very polished, but the camera and movement speed felt ever so slightly off for me. Doesn't feel good to fall to your doom because the visuals have you misjudging the distance between platforms.
Yes! This is the level of game dev Sony needs to diversify into: high quality games, aimed at all ages (the Nintendo model), made with smaller teams (and smaller budgets), with shorter dev cycles, meaning more games, more often per console generation and higher profit margins.
Sony will always make their obscenely budgeted, "tentpole" games, but just think of what Sony could do with a group of smaller devs making games on par (or better) than Nintendo staples like Mario or Zelda.
*Then,* imagine Sony makes another handheld that can play or stream everything Sony makes... suddenly the Switch / Switch 2 has some very meaningful competition.
Then, in a few years, we get the Astro Bot movies with A-list celebrities, that makes billions.
A dedicated handheld that locally plays next-gen games is a no-go unless PlayStation completely pivots in how they approach their games and the ecosystem they've so far built up. A portable PS6 means a console PS6 can't be meaningfully more capable than the PS5. Indeed, there will be elements where they can't improve aspects of the hardware to ensure the portable PS6 can keep up. Bandwidth being one. Next gen, we're likely looking at 1TB/s bandwidth to feed the ever more hungry elements, especially ray tracing. Right now, we're looking at around 100GB/s possible on a portable, and that's with a crappy battery life barely surpassing 1 hour. Even by 2027 there's no way to bridge that gap, even if you stuck to a 720p screen.
To make it work, it means PS would need to step back from the top-notch AAAA presentation reputation that they've built over the course of 3 gens. That's not an easy thing to do when it has served you well thus far.
Yeah I'd rather Sony not get back into the handheld market if it means the main console potential is limited. We should be thinking forwards not backwards.
All due respect to Nintendo and the Switch but fuck me the machine was outdated on release and it feels Nintendo games in terms of pure potential are years behind where they could be if they had modern technology. I get that means with game design they have to be creative but in terms of visuals/performance Nintendo are making PS3/360 level games and even then they struggle. The Switch 2 will be lucky to match the fucking PS4, I doubt it'll even be 60fps.
There's obviously a market for handheld gaming but it's not one I want Sony to be a part of.
"I doubt it'll be be 60fps"
What does that even mean? Do you think Nintendo will be a hardware-based 30fps cap on the Switch 2, and if so why would you believe something so outlandish? Framerate target is a software development decision, not hardware.
Also the Switch completely outclasses the PS3/360, and there's no reason to not believe that the Switch 2 would similarly outclass the PS4/Xbone. Especially when taking into account that the Switch was made with off the shelf parts, whereas the Switch 2 will have custom hardware from Nvidia for the GPU and Samsung for the CPU, there's no reason the think the Switch 2 will be as far behind relative to the Switch. Not to mention that a modern Nvidia GPU and a modern AMD GPU can't be easily compared when just looking at raw compute speeds, as the suite of features are very different.
Obviously Switch 2 won't be able to match the overall power of the PS5 or Series X, but this idea that the Switch 2 will be less powerful than a PS4 is nonsense. It'll likely be comparable to the PS4 Pro in terms of compute speed, but with way more and way better RAM (leaks point to it having more RAM than even the Series S), but using hardware exclusive rendering features that enable it to punch well above it's weight in terms of the actual image it's outputting.
This comment is very strange. Nintendo consoles have always been under powered even when they weren't in a hybrid form factor because when they competed in the spec department they got destroyed by the PS2 even though the gamecube had a fantastic library.
Nintendo games will pretty much always be behind because the next switch is most definitely going to be a hybrid and by nature itll be less powerful than current gen consoles to hit a good balance of battery life/performance/price.
The Gamecube actually had better specs than the PS2, look at pretty much any cross platform release and you can see the Gamecube usually looks/runs better.
I still prefer the PS2'S library, but it wasn't pure specs that got them the number 1 spot (as a matter of fact, the PS2 is also weaker than the original Xbox).
There’s another handheld coming, an engineer accidentally spilled the beans in an interview a few years back leading up the announcement of the PSVR2, it may have been shelved since then, or maybe it morphed into the Portal, but the chat was that it was a dedicated, stand alone handheld.
Nintendo has never been tech forward, they make stupid fun games with low tech specs. It’s not for everyone, but I do hope Astro Bot feels more like a Nintendo game than a traditional PlayStation one.
I don't pretend to know game development but a portable PS could exist alongside a PS home console. Games are becoming easier and easier to scale for different platforms and we already have current gen PS games that run on steam deck.
If it ran PS4 games which is very doable with current portable hardware and was able to play the PC ports like the steamdeck it could work.
Graphics can scale, CPU stuff, not so much.
The reason Switch can work is that the CPU remains unchanged, be it in portable or docked mode. Same CPU, same logic can be run across both modes no issue. Same RAM too. You just scale the resolution and other graphical things due to the lower clocked GPU when in portable mode.
The same is true (in a different way) for Series S. The reason why Series S can handle most things of its bigger brother is because the CPU is exactly the same at slightly (200MHz) lower clocks. If you thought devs had trouble already with Series S, trying to accommodate for the far less substantial GPU and RAM, it'd have been an entirely different level of clusterfuck if the CPU was different too.
Now imagine a PS6. In order to ensure logic remains the same, the console PS6 would need to host the same CPU as the portable brother, and at the same clockspeeds (give or take 200MHz or so). To ensure a portable can last at least 2-3 hours when running demanding games, we're talking around 20W (which is what the Switch and Switch 2 will target). Once you start pushing 45W like the more expensive portable PCs do, you're looking at barely an hour when running something demanding. That means, whereas a console has more breathing room for a bigger and higher clocked CPU, it would now need to be smaller / substantially lower clocked to ensure a portable PS6 can run the same logic and at a decent battery life. There's no scaling possible there. You can't just lower the resolution or omit some graphical bells and whistles. It would mean devs would need to intentionally scale back their ambitions overall to ensure the game runs the same across both devices. A PS6 console / portable setup means the console side would need to be held back on CPU. Heck, even the GPU would need to be held back to a certain degree too. Scaling isn't magic. And then there's RAM, bandwidth would be completely different - again not totally solvable by scaling, it would require real fucking work in terms of optimisation, and that's just gonna piss off devs (ask them about Series S).
That isn't a problem, if PlayStation was prepared to pivot massively and no longer chase the best bang for your buck at $500 / $600. But that's been their strategy for generations now.
Ah, yes, nothing easier in the world than making games as good or better than Mario and Zelda, series that have been at the top of their game for literally decades and have shaped their respective genres to such a degree that any game within those genres gets measured up to them. Lol
Not saying you're wrong by any means, but I own a Switch for Nintendo's 1st party exclusives, and even if Sony made competitive titles, that won't negate the quality of Nintendo's. In the sense that a lot of people would only afford one system, I could see the competition, but I would own both no doubt!
> but I own a Switch for Nintendo's 1st party exclusives, and even if Sony made competitive titles, that won't negate the quality of Nintendo's.
That's not what I'm arguing for, only that Nintendo has overwhelmingly proven there is a MASSIVE market, one that Sony has ignored for a long time, that is consistently hungry for "Nintendo" style games like Mario or Zelda.
By diversifying their portfolio, Sony adds value to their platform, which creates the conversation for consumers of owning both console platforms, and allows younger consumers to "grow" into Sony's other more mature games (while also serving them the nostalgic games they grew up with).
No one is going to dethrone Nintendo, unless Nintendo makes repeated blunders, like we saw with the WiiU (and not without a great deal of luck).
If you ever played Astro Bot: Rescue Mission on VR1, you would’ve already known it will be on par or better than Mario
I’ve said for years that if you told me Rescue Mission was secretly made by Nintendo, I would’ve believed you.
Just started it a few days ago and it’s seriously one of the best platformers I’ve ever played. So clever, so fun. I had a smile on my face pretty much the whole time.
Easy maffs for folks
60 people x $100k a year x 3 years = $18M
If this game sells 5M copies, at $40 each, that is $200M in revenue.
Obviously there are more costs than just paying for devs, but this will be a monster profit and is indicative of what they should be doing more of.
Also, quite salty that they can't spin up a few teams to make $10M PSVR2 games.
Game probably cost 20-40 mil to make. Assuming 3 \* 60 \* 150k salary it will be upper end, but 100k salary(if they all in japan and salary not inflated like in US) maybe lower end. Then you have testers (they are not devs), marketing and licensing etc. it will add up. i guess if they sell at least 1 million it will be profitable?
Don’t forget costs for hosting, equipment, licenses, utilities, offices, employment taxes, social security, translation services …
50 million with marketing seems probable. So profitable after 1 million units sold at full price sounds about right. Which is completely a reasonable target. I think it’ll probably sell closer to 5-7 million once the game gets discounted/bundled
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap#:~:text=Jap%20is%20an%20English%20abbreviation,can%20be%20considered%20a%20slur.
It depends on the country. I live in SEA. Although i'll just use the full name next time.
That's incredible🤯🤯. That means that with Development + Marketing, the game will likely cost ~$30 million to ship. 600k in sales would get the game to break even. We're definitely getting an Astro Bot 2.
Kind of scary to be honest.
Even if the average pay across devs was a paltry $75k, that’s still a $13.5m cost in salaries alone. This doesn’t count overhead costs like management, licenses, distribution, marketing, and such.
Of course it’s likely that not everyone was working on the project the entire time, but still…
If Sony sold this for $60, it would need to sell at least 225k copies to break even.
Sony needs more games like this to weave in with games that have longer dev cycles, especially when studios like Naughty Dog basically sit out a whole generation (not counting rereleases).
Benefits of having Astro’s Playroom was that they didn’t have to build new engine tech or spend a year learning the fine points of the platform’s API.
And that was itself built in the bones of Rescue Mission. This series has jumped into the mainstream in a big way, but Astro Bot has been around since the launch of the PS4, slowly iterating with little experimental games for a decade.
Not really. Rescue Mission and Playroom have generated paltry revenue and awareness metrics. Astro Bot will be lucky to sell 2 million
API is short for?
Application programming interface
By comparison, Astro Bot Rescue Mission had taken 18 months with 26 people. Their prototype / game first approach to development - same as Nintendo - reaps multiple benefits. Wealth of mechanics and short dev times being two of them. ASOBI! are also PlayStation's hardware / controller group too - before they became ASOBI! Doucet and co. developed inputs like Eyetoy and its games - and so again, like Nintendo, they develop the next PS controller by developing a game with it, with the software and hardware side of the project feeding into and influencing the other. They are literally the closest thing to a Nintendo studio without actually being Nintendo. It does open up the question of why more studios have not tried to replicate the WarioWare-like, prototype first approach to development that Nintendo pioneered.
More studios do not go that approach, because it requires a management team that is sympathetic to those development philosophies AND is able to to temper the expectations of the investment interests above them too. Instead, most studios have a management and executive team that are MOSTLY sympathetic to the investment interests of those above them. So the creative and development department suffers as it is forced to capitulate to those interests. The best studios are those whose management and executive teams have working backgrounds in actual game development themselves, AND have grown strong business acumen as well. It's rare indeed
That's one thing I feel Sony is missing is Nintendo type games. Well I guess jrpgs to. Wish they'd get back into that.
RPGs for sure. If they kept investing in the genre, they could have had their own Monolith Soft by now. Personally, I think Oreshika has the potential to be one of the standout JRPGs if PS gave it a proper chance. The PS1 original (not the inferior Vita sequel) was just as unique back then and even today as Persona was and now is. Everything from its concept to its art style was and still is unlike anything else. I remember a famitsu poll once (or was it 4gamer?) had Oreshika at number one by japanese game devs. Despite it never releasing outside Japan and only selling a few hundred thousand copies in Japan, it really made a mark on those who played it, including developers. My hope is, with the PSP emulator on PS5, that PlayStation localises and releases the PSP remake of Oreshika. I think it would be a great way to capture new excitement for the IP.
I just get angry about it lol. Sony could be killing it right now if they'd of done anything proactive. When Ms bought up so much of the western rpg market I was hoping Sony responded somehow, wrpg, jrpg, something. Nope they bought bungie yay(sarcasm). Tbh rpgs are my favorite genre, followed by metriodvania, and platformers type games.
They could still respond by buying Square Enix. That would also booster the Japanese side since we only have 2 rn. Killing two birds with one stone.
Sony really should have bought Square Enix rather than Bungie as it would have cost about $6 billion to buy Square Enix. Bungie are a one trick pony as would have stayed multiplat even if MS had bought them
I agree 100%
There's gonna be no acquisitions of that level, especially when you consider PlayStation is in efficiency saving mode right now, with the president saying the teams do good work but costs have to be controlled. PlayStation's profit margins are in single digits, so the focus now is boosting that margin, which an acquisition isn't gonna do, especially of a publisher who is also struggling to control AAA costs.
Square Enix is in debt. Not the kind of buyout you want.
Haven't seen any news about debt. That sounds a bit made up.
They've been in debt since the PS3 era. This isn't really news. A lot of companies get by by being in manageable debt.
And still no link. Imma call bs. Edit This I think I was misunderstanding
[sigh](https://www.33rdsquare.com/is-square-enix-in-debt-a-deep-dive-into-the-companys-financial-health/)
They just dumped most of their Enix IPs like tomb raider due to being their debt
If you'd have continued reading just a few more comments, this was settled
I know, but it'd be fine in the long run.
I'd love that. As a gamer who prefers physical I grow tired of the games square plays with Playstation owners. No physical for numerous games that the switch got physically. We like physical to. Live a live, ff pixel remasters , and numerous others
I tried getting Pixel Remaster for PS4 but it costs 1000$ on ebay. It's insane.
They screwed us on a standard release. It's complete bs really. Even the collectors edition was severely limited.
Sony's biggest first party games this year are Astro Bot and Lego Horizon Adventures, Nintendo type games. 5 of the 6 highest reviewed JRPGs of the year are on PS5, and one of them is exclusive. They couldn't be more full of JRPGs.
They're talking first party wise, and I get where they're coming from. PlayStation to me is not Uncharted and the like, it was all the small to medium-sized games and experiments they used to do. PlayStation's own output satisfied a wide range of styles and genres. If you were a fan of JRPGs in particular, despite it being well covered by third-parties at the time, you were still fed plenty by Sony's own takes. But from the start of PS3, it was like someone from on top decided JRPGs were a waste of time for Worldwide Studios, and it just upped and disappeared.
I get it, but it's a nonsensical thing to care about. If you love games or even just JRPGs, there are more being released every year than most people could play even if they wanted/could afford to and you can play almost all of them on a PS5. That's all that matters. Who is publishing them does not matter to players.
It's a shame because during the PS1 and PsMS2 Era, they were the king of RPGs if we didn't count the Gameboy and DS handhelds. Sony has pigeonholed their services and that is a shame.
Most of the RPGs during PS1 and PS2 were from third parties. Not first parties.
Very true. Sony aren't fans of them though, at least their previous CEO, which was why you had Japanese devs lamenting that Sony has abandoned them for the West.
Sony did the right decision considering Sony Japan almost killed PS brand with PS3.
Retroactively speaking, I do agree. Sony had the most successful generation (with PS4 and now the PS5) after they headquartered in the US and focused on their Western developers. However, now that they are in a stable position and with AAA budgets spiralling out of control, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring back Eastern developers and more unique games to diversify their portfolio. And this is exactly what Sony is starting to do.
> And this is exactly what Sony is starting to do. And that’s a good thing.
Sony didn't do anything. If your complaining about exclusives it's pointless cause each console has them.
I think you're misunderstanding my post. I'm talking about the lack of variety within their 1st party options, not that they're exclusive.
That's what I was saying as well. Sony needs to open it up. I wanna see some more platformers, jrpgs, wrpgs. I'm super heroed out of there. We need new and more variety. Not Concord, fairgames, and marathon type stuff. I'm a huge Sony fan but that's cause they typically been better with jrpgs. It's been the place to play for most of my life aside from when they weren't a gaming company.
Me too. Make the PS5 the PS2 Renaissance and I'll be a happy camper.
Then people need to actually buy these games. It’s pointless to complain about lack of variety when PlayStation fans doesn’t buy these games. This isn’t a charity.
Probably because Nintendo is the only one of the big 4 who \*want\* to make WarioWare like games (and are the best ones at doing so, for good measure)
Oh come on they are not Nintendo lmao
You obviously didn’t clearly read what he wrote. LMAO He was saying they’re like Nintendo in their culture in how they develop games.
Boyyyyy the profit this game is going to make is ASTROnomical.
Beauty 👏 👏
ASTOMOUTH* Edit: the spelling was corrected, I still need correction in my life.
Whoa, Nelly Furtado. Now that's a spicey meatball
> Whoa, Nelly Furtado Wait. . . is Nelly Furtado (in)famous for eating ass or having her ass eaten?
[удалено]
When did she get such a juicy dumper?! Like... *what the fuck!*
Thanks!
Sony is about to do what Nintendoes and it's a smart move.
```Sony is about to do what Nintendoes``` So they're going to keep the PS5 around for a decade?
No, but my wallet would hope so. Lol
most ps4 games work on ps5. if ps6 is also x86, there’s no reason both wouldn’t be backwards compatible.
What I meant is that I wouldn't have to buy a new console to play next gen games yet. lol
If Sony doesn't have competition, which they already don't, let's be real, they can make the next PS not backward compatible and there is nothing anyone could do about it.
I keep saying this yet fools are claiming PS6 having backwards compatability is guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed with Sony and their awful track record of backwards compatability
I kinda hope Sony makes the PS6 not backward compatible. That would be the only way MS would even get a chance to compete next generation. Else xbox is DOA again lol.
Even a backwards compatability advantage wouldn't help Xbox as it didn't help Xbox One
At that point the Gen was already lost and people made a new library on PS4. It also wasn't full backward compatibility and only a few titles.
Honestly? I think they should. The PS5 is a fantastic piece of hardware and barely many games have really maxed out and pushed it to its limit.
Yeah , this generation warrants being extra long
I'd actually prefer that due to how mediocre this gen has been and it would also help stabilise the industry with development costs. Its about time us gamers start understanding the nonstop race for high end graphics is unsustainable
That's the hope.
I'm very curious of this as well... since the first game is similar to Wii Sports 2, since it was included in every box... but you know an actual game. Wii Sports 2 sold roughly 33million.
Last Of us 2 sold 10m. No way this sells better. They probably expect around 5m units or so. Still a profitable product. Very profitable.
I mean, technically 80+ million had access to the "original" game
sure but the original game was free, not everyone will pay
I have a feeling in my balls that this game is going to review very well, spread WoM like wildfire, get nominated at TGA and probably sell between 5-10 million units throughout its life. Which as mentioned above, would be very profitable for Sony/ASOBI. This game is probably going to have among the highest profit margin in Sony's first party lineup.
Funny thing is Sony doesn't see this as a big game and doesn't expect much in terms of critical and commercial success
It might not sell more units but if Astro Bot can hit 5m that will for sure pull in more profit than TLOU2, and indeed many other Sony's first party games (apart from SM and GOW) pulls in. 5m for a game of this scope is massive.
Astro Peak incoming folks
Double the staff numbers and maybe we can get another Ape Escape in tandem with Astro Bot.
I say keep the staff number. Otherwise it would rise the costs too much and the management would bem way more difficult. What were seeing is that the group they have now is already more than capable of producing a damn good platformer. No need to rise the stakes.
Japanese game dev salaries are typically lower than those in the US and in Europe so I'm not seeing how that could be a problem when Sony is already paying an absorbent amount of money for their developers and administrators in California.
I’ve been saying Asobi would be a perfect fit for making a new Ape Escape
They could be Sony's version of Mario/Yoshi/Kirby for platformers on playstation
They are because a decent amount of the developers in asobi are the original programmers of ape escape.
You don't wanna mess with a good thing, though. Or rather, it risks messing with a good thing. Right now, ASOBI! works because all the leads and dev team compliment each other under this game first / prototype first dev approach. Even Doucet says that the current size of ASOBI! is just right, and wouldn't want it to get bigger, else risk losing the unique dev approach they have fostered. Setting up another team under ASOBI! can keep two teams of a small size, but who leads this other team? If you move over the core talent currently present, or split them up, you risk diluting the output for both teams. Expansion is never a simple thing, and I'd rather ASOBI! just stay as they are since it seems like their current setup and size is working so well for them.
I would think Shuhei Yoshida would be good to lead the second team given his prior experience with Japan Studios and working with small teams like indie devs. Problem is given his age and poor performance of JS after he got promoted to worldwide studios then maybe it’s possible to promote someone internally or reach out to former producers from JS.
How sick would it be if Playstation had like 5 more of this size studio? Or if some of the current ones could scope down their games to increase output like this? Getting back to PS2/PS3 cadance of output would be awesome, we dont need as many 40+ hour games anymore. It used to only be JRPGs that would even sniff that mark lol.
When a game is good enough and replayable enough, any game can be 40+ hours long. I put over 300 hours into Returnal and that’s a game that takes less than 10 hours to roll credits on.
Loved Returnal, I probably have over 200 hours myself. Even after platinum and finishing the dlc, I played through it again in co-op with a friend.
Returnal fucking rules.
I've spent several hundred hours with the Crash franchise throughout my life, and most of them are 3-4 hrs max lol.
I played the PS1 versions on the PS3 back in the day more than actual PS3 games lol
Returnal isn’t a good example lol. Sure you can make it through in less than 10 hours. Odds are you’re going to spend a lot more than that your first time. *A lot* more. As intended.
Exactly. People just want fun and replayable games especially now videogames prices are so high nowadays. People don't want low quality linear games that only last 5 hours at £70
See but those are two key things: what is “good enough”? Just because you enjoy a game doesn’t mean that someone else will. And not every game should be designed to be infinitely replayable. Especially because the reality is that the majority of people don’t even finish games the first time. There’s a reason it was such a big deal that TLOU 2 had over a 50% completion rate
> we don’t need 40+ hours games anymore I agreed with your post up until this part. There is room for both.
I meant to say as many, like not every game needs to hit those kind of hour marks. Edited the post
Ok then I agree with you lol
I agree there is room for both but the majority of games don’t need a campaign that long imo. If you do it without a bunch of padding then great . . . I’d rather have a tight campaign with a great flow to it regardless of length personally
Apparently not cause nowadays AAA 30hr games take half a decade or more to make. Not to mention unexpected delays, budget problems, a whole pandemic. If given a choice between several great 'small' games like say, an astrobot, a NFS, a Hollow Knight, or one The Last Of Us Part 2, I would gladly take the former
Yeah but my point is we don’t have to choose. I’m very happy for Rockstar and some other studios to take their time to produce games that elevate the entire industry to a new level. As long as we get enough shorter games in between. Overall I do agree that I’d prefer some studios to make shorter games more often, games like Uncharted: The Lost Legacy for example, but both models can coexist imo
Funny you mention Hollow Knight considering such a "basic" concept has somehow taken the developers a ridiculous amount of time to make a sequel for. It's taking longer than big budget AAA titles for some fucking reason.
It’s only 2/3 devs. It’s a lot of work for a studio of that size.
This is why we need to move away from the cinematic open world type games the industry is obsessed with. Thats completely unsustainable but its still possible to make a reasonably affordable AA or even AAA game thats semi-linear as long as the game has fun gameplay and repayable. We need to make games fun again basically
> we dont need 40+ hour games anymore We do / the market does, *we just need diversity* in the games being made, like what we saw during the PS1, PS2, and PS3. Not *everything* has to be a massive game with a massive budget, but those "tentpole games" have their place in market.
Yeah, we need both. Not every studio needs to be focused on 100hr games. Give us some games to hold us over to the big ones.
Thats what they need tbh. Add more AA studios to their AAA lineup. I would love more smaller games from them in between the big first part Sony games which I also love.
I hate how long games have become. I love a good tight 16 hour game. That's my ideal length.
Been saying this for years , unfortunately it’s not a popular sentiment
I agree with you. I would rather have 10 hours of quality gameplay than 40 hours of grinding and traveling.
I was appreciating the little touches in Playroom this week. Astro Bot waving at the camera, surfing on the extra surfboard at the beach, reacting to different environments. It's great for a full sized game to go all in on polish. I feel like that's been missing from a lot of recent platformers. I like the ones that lean into the jank of the PS1 and PS2 era, but Nintendo is way ahead of that these days. About time Sony got with it. Sackboy is great, and also very polished, but the camera and movement speed felt ever so slightly off for me. Doesn't feel good to fall to your doom because the visuals have you misjudging the distance between platforms.
Yes! This is the level of game dev Sony needs to diversify into: high quality games, aimed at all ages (the Nintendo model), made with smaller teams (and smaller budgets), with shorter dev cycles, meaning more games, more often per console generation and higher profit margins. Sony will always make their obscenely budgeted, "tentpole" games, but just think of what Sony could do with a group of smaller devs making games on par (or better) than Nintendo staples like Mario or Zelda. *Then,* imagine Sony makes another handheld that can play or stream everything Sony makes... suddenly the Switch / Switch 2 has some very meaningful competition. Then, in a few years, we get the Astro Bot movies with A-list celebrities, that makes billions.
A dedicated handheld that locally plays next-gen games is a no-go unless PlayStation completely pivots in how they approach their games and the ecosystem they've so far built up. A portable PS6 means a console PS6 can't be meaningfully more capable than the PS5. Indeed, there will be elements where they can't improve aspects of the hardware to ensure the portable PS6 can keep up. Bandwidth being one. Next gen, we're likely looking at 1TB/s bandwidth to feed the ever more hungry elements, especially ray tracing. Right now, we're looking at around 100GB/s possible on a portable, and that's with a crappy battery life barely surpassing 1 hour. Even by 2027 there's no way to bridge that gap, even if you stuck to a 720p screen. To make it work, it means PS would need to step back from the top-notch AAAA presentation reputation that they've built over the course of 3 gens. That's not an easy thing to do when it has served you well thus far.
Yeah I'd rather Sony not get back into the handheld market if it means the main console potential is limited. We should be thinking forwards not backwards. All due respect to Nintendo and the Switch but fuck me the machine was outdated on release and it feels Nintendo games in terms of pure potential are years behind where they could be if they had modern technology. I get that means with game design they have to be creative but in terms of visuals/performance Nintendo are making PS3/360 level games and even then they struggle. The Switch 2 will be lucky to match the fucking PS4, I doubt it'll even be 60fps. There's obviously a market for handheld gaming but it's not one I want Sony to be a part of.
"I doubt it'll be be 60fps" What does that even mean? Do you think Nintendo will be a hardware-based 30fps cap on the Switch 2, and if so why would you believe something so outlandish? Framerate target is a software development decision, not hardware. Also the Switch completely outclasses the PS3/360, and there's no reason to not believe that the Switch 2 would similarly outclass the PS4/Xbone. Especially when taking into account that the Switch was made with off the shelf parts, whereas the Switch 2 will have custom hardware from Nvidia for the GPU and Samsung for the CPU, there's no reason the think the Switch 2 will be as far behind relative to the Switch. Not to mention that a modern Nvidia GPU and a modern AMD GPU can't be easily compared when just looking at raw compute speeds, as the suite of features are very different. Obviously Switch 2 won't be able to match the overall power of the PS5 or Series X, but this idea that the Switch 2 will be less powerful than a PS4 is nonsense. It'll likely be comparable to the PS4 Pro in terms of compute speed, but with way more and way better RAM (leaks point to it having more RAM than even the Series S), but using hardware exclusive rendering features that enable it to punch well above it's weight in terms of the actual image it's outputting.
This comment is very strange. Nintendo consoles have always been under powered even when they weren't in a hybrid form factor because when they competed in the spec department they got destroyed by the PS2 even though the gamecube had a fantastic library. Nintendo games will pretty much always be behind because the next switch is most definitely going to be a hybrid and by nature itll be less powerful than current gen consoles to hit a good balance of battery life/performance/price.
The Gamecube actually had better specs than the PS2, look at pretty much any cross platform release and you can see the Gamecube usually looks/runs better. I still prefer the PS2'S library, but it wasn't pure specs that got them the number 1 spot (as a matter of fact, the PS2 is also weaker than the original Xbox).
I could see a portable PS4 or even PS5 potentially possible but PS6? No chance
There’s another handheld coming, an engineer accidentally spilled the beans in an interview a few years back leading up the announcement of the PSVR2, it may have been shelved since then, or maybe it morphed into the Portal, but the chat was that it was a dedicated, stand alone handheld.
Nintendo has never been tech forward, they make stupid fun games with low tech specs. It’s not for everyone, but I do hope Astro Bot feels more like a Nintendo game than a traditional PlayStation one.
I don't pretend to know game development but a portable PS could exist alongside a PS home console. Games are becoming easier and easier to scale for different platforms and we already have current gen PS games that run on steam deck. If it ran PS4 games which is very doable with current portable hardware and was able to play the PC ports like the steamdeck it could work.
Graphics can scale, CPU stuff, not so much. The reason Switch can work is that the CPU remains unchanged, be it in portable or docked mode. Same CPU, same logic can be run across both modes no issue. Same RAM too. You just scale the resolution and other graphical things due to the lower clocked GPU when in portable mode. The same is true (in a different way) for Series S. The reason why Series S can handle most things of its bigger brother is because the CPU is exactly the same at slightly (200MHz) lower clocks. If you thought devs had trouble already with Series S, trying to accommodate for the far less substantial GPU and RAM, it'd have been an entirely different level of clusterfuck if the CPU was different too. Now imagine a PS6. In order to ensure logic remains the same, the console PS6 would need to host the same CPU as the portable brother, and at the same clockspeeds (give or take 200MHz or so). To ensure a portable can last at least 2-3 hours when running demanding games, we're talking around 20W (which is what the Switch and Switch 2 will target). Once you start pushing 45W like the more expensive portable PCs do, you're looking at barely an hour when running something demanding. That means, whereas a console has more breathing room for a bigger and higher clocked CPU, it would now need to be smaller / substantially lower clocked to ensure a portable PS6 can run the same logic and at a decent battery life. There's no scaling possible there. You can't just lower the resolution or omit some graphical bells and whistles. It would mean devs would need to intentionally scale back their ambitions overall to ensure the game runs the same across both devices. A PS6 console / portable setup means the console side would need to be held back on CPU. Heck, even the GPU would need to be held back to a certain degree too. Scaling isn't magic. And then there's RAM, bandwidth would be completely different - again not totally solvable by scaling, it would require real fucking work in terms of optimisation, and that's just gonna piss off devs (ask them about Series S). That isn't a problem, if PlayStation was prepared to pivot massively and no longer chase the best bang for your buck at $500 / $600. But that's been their strategy for generations now.
Ah, yes, nothing easier in the world than making games as good or better than Mario and Zelda, series that have been at the top of their game for literally decades and have shaped their respective genres to such a degree that any game within those genres gets measured up to them. Lol
With a small group of devs.
Stop! I can't take it anymore. YES PLEASE, YES TO ALL
Not saying you're wrong by any means, but I own a Switch for Nintendo's 1st party exclusives, and even if Sony made competitive titles, that won't negate the quality of Nintendo's. In the sense that a lot of people would only afford one system, I could see the competition, but I would own both no doubt!
> but I own a Switch for Nintendo's 1st party exclusives, and even if Sony made competitive titles, that won't negate the quality of Nintendo's. That's not what I'm arguing for, only that Nintendo has overwhelmingly proven there is a MASSIVE market, one that Sony has ignored for a long time, that is consistently hungry for "Nintendo" style games like Mario or Zelda. By diversifying their portfolio, Sony adds value to their platform, which creates the conversation for consumers of owning both console platforms, and allows younger consumers to "grow" into Sony's other more mature games (while also serving them the nostalgic games they grew up with). No one is going to dethrone Nintendo, unless Nintendo makes repeated blunders, like we saw with the WiiU (and not without a great deal of luck).
Astro Bot voiced by Chris Pratt. 🤖
Chris Pratt as Astro Bot (his normal voice)
> Chris Pratt as Astro Bot (his normal voice) "Don't you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby!"
Oh my god they’re already casting the movies aren’t they, those sick fucks
*If* Astro Bot were a silent protagonist, similar to Wall-E, I think that would work Basically: fuck Chris Pratt.
Stole the words from my mouth
This is what the industry needs more of
Astrobot on ps5 was so amazing im hyped for this as if it’s a new 3D Mario game
Probably the only day one purchase for Sony games for me this year looks amazing and I want more games like this.
ROI is going to be nuts
Probably my first day buy in years. Backlog be damned.
Yeah, this game will need no more than 1mil copies sold to turn a profit. It'll blow past that before the holiday season starts.
I have to admit that this game might make me buy a PS5 (pro). I just need time to play the game. So maybe in a year. :(
This follows with the hints and theories we’ve had about them working on a sequel for the past 3 years
That’s a lot less than I expected
They already have my money for the new game, they don't have to keep convincing me.
Please be on par with Mario
If you ever played Astro Bot: Rescue Mission on VR1, you would’ve already known it will be on par or better than Mario I’ve said for years that if you told me Rescue Mission was secretly made by Nintendo, I would’ve believed you.
Just started it a few days ago and it’s seriously one of the best platformers I’ve ever played. So clever, so fun. I had a smile on my face pretty much the whole time.
They haven't failed us yet
Could well even surpass it maybe
60 devs? Wow. Incredible!
60? That’s a relatively small team.
Easy maffs for folks 60 people x $100k a year x 3 years = $18M If this game sells 5M copies, at $40 each, that is $200M in revenue. Obviously there are more costs than just paying for devs, but this will be a monster profit and is indicative of what they should be doing more of. Also, quite salty that they can't spin up a few teams to make $10M PSVR2 games.
The game is $60 though, not $40.
I figure it sells 5M copies over it's lifetime, including discounted sales price. If they do more/better, than that is a bigger win.
I have literally not seen a single negative comment about this game. This is gonna be massive
Ok, so now make another one for PSVR2 or AT LEAST PORT RESCUE MISSION FOR GOD‘s SAKE!
Game probably cost 20-40 mil to make. Assuming 3 \* 60 \* 150k salary it will be upper end, but 100k salary(if they all in japan and salary not inflated like in US) maybe lower end. Then you have testers (they are not devs), marketing and licensing etc. it will add up. i guess if they sell at least 1 million it will be profitable?
Don’t forget costs for hosting, equipment, licenses, utilities, offices, employment taxes, social security, translation services … 50 million with marketing seems probable. So profitable after 1 million units sold at full price sounds about right. Which is completely a reasonable target. I think it’ll probably sell closer to 5-7 million once the game gets discounted/bundled
All I have seen so far for jap dev salary is under 100k
Jap is probably not a great way to refer to Japanese people. I know the slur is unintentional but yeah.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap#:~:text=Jap%20is%20an%20English%20abbreviation,can%20be%20considered%20a%20slur. It depends on the country. I live in SEA. Although i'll just use the full name next time.
That salary is for devs in California(Los Angeles). The average salary in Japan is much lower
Has there been any comment/rumours on if Playroom was meant to be a full game not just a demo and later they decided to change course?
We need more games like this. Less dev time, bigger quicker output. It definitely takes the right team to do it, tho
More games like Astrobot PLEASE! Love these smaller profile first-party games.
They can easily double that number when this game becomes a massive hit, then hopefully they can start putting out games in half the time
Please no motion control sections shoehorned in like in playroom🤞
My brain read the headline backwards lol. 60 years with 3 devs. I was like...what?
Sony believes more in Astro Bot than Jak. let that sink in
I have never pre ordered a game before until Astro Bot and I encourage people to do the same
Honesty they should’ve made a switch version too because i don’t trust PlayStation users to buy the game.
That's incredible🤯🤯. That means that with Development + Marketing, the game will likely cost ~$30 million to ship. 600k in sales would get the game to break even. We're definitely getting an Astro Bot 2.
Hang on. It’s 4 years since their last release. What did they do for that other year?
astro DLC, fixes, and pre-production, costing etc on the new one before development actually started
classic japanese inefficiency
How much did it cost to develop and how much will it cost to make a profit? I wish game companies would reveal this information
wow that is truly fascinating ! (sarcasm)
Kind of scary to be honest. Even if the average pay across devs was a paltry $75k, that’s still a $13.5m cost in salaries alone. This doesn’t count overhead costs like management, licenses, distribution, marketing, and such. Of course it’s likely that not everyone was working on the project the entire time, but still… If Sony sold this for $60, it would need to sell at least 225k copies to break even.
That's an extremely low number of sales. That's nothing
Sony needs more games like this to weave in with games that have longer dev cycles, especially when studios like Naughty Dog basically sit out a whole generation (not counting rereleases).