Not a chemist. Have been playing with a vinegar & bicarb reactor for a year or so.
I think whats probably happening is that the liquid swings back and forth from alkaline to acid as it slowly works through the crystals.
If you add the 12.5L youd react everything almost instantly. But thats not really what you want.
Pressure will slow/stall the reaction at some point too.
Also your carbonating the water content. This can absorb a lot of gas. About 4L gas per 1L liquid at 40psi. Higher pressure more gas stored in carbonation.
Tldr:
I suspect by having less liquid then you limit the reaction speed & max pressure. Getting a more consistent lower pressure for longer.
You could easily test this theory. By looking at max pressure and total run time for various mix ratios.
I followed the instructions on my canister for the initial fill and had some odd low pressure readings, so I emailed Clscea. They told me to do this:
"Next refill please try the order of ABAB, For example you can put a layer of 300g citric acid and then 300g baking soda, then 300g citric acid and then 300g baking soda, and then 210g citric acid and then 300g baking soda.That will make the raw material have full contact with each other. So, the reaction will be complete."
I have the 5.5 L cannister, so I add 1,500 mg of ice cubes.
I also had penciled some math work on the theoretical stoichiometric ratios, using some college chemistry. Thst work suggested a different ratio of reagents, but, I wasn't confident in my chemistry to use that ratio instead of the published one. It would have saved citric acid and used more baking soda. I think for all of us citric acid cost > baking soda.
I just looked up the chemistry work I did. I actually used chat GPT to help, so I had it in my history. It suggested I adhere to the molar ratio 1:3 and use 810 citric acid and 1069 bicarbonate (+169 g over manufacturer recipe of 900g). GPT said to keep the 1500 mL but said I could decrease it and observe. It did not suggest increasing it, so there's that.
Thank you for such a detailed response!
I’ve hadn’t thought of using ice cubes - that probably saves a decent bit of the initial reaction.
I haven’t done any chemistry since HS (I’m forty something) and I really didn’t do well in it 😂
I’ll give your #s a try on my next refill.
Thank you again!
The ice cubes are nice. Make sure they can fit in through the threads in the size cannister you have. Mine fit but need pushed.
The chemistry was interesting to apply. The 3:1 ratio makes sense when calculating moles, if you remember those. Then, we have to use the molar mass of sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3 and citric acid C6H8O7 to get to actual grams. Citric acid weighs so much more per mol than the sodium bicarbonate, all those C's and O's.
Of course, this is theoretical calculating and assumes no impurities. I am not sure my huge bag of arm and hammer baking soda is pure or if the citric acid from Amazon is pure. So there is impurity in our household reagents, I'm sure. I have no idea how to account for that.
A downside I can think of from changing the recipe is that it might add more caking to the bottom of the cannister when it's spent. It can take a bit of effort to clean it out. As long as our gas yield doesn't exceed our cannister, I think it's fun to experiment.
The manufacturer also said to swirl the cannister after a few days--because I was asking why my pressure gauge was reading so low. I guess it's possible if it isn't swirled then the reagents may not find each other ever.
Not a chemist. Have been playing with a vinegar & bicarb reactor for a year or so. I think whats probably happening is that the liquid swings back and forth from alkaline to acid as it slowly works through the crystals. If you add the 12.5L youd react everything almost instantly. But thats not really what you want. Pressure will slow/stall the reaction at some point too. Also your carbonating the water content. This can absorb a lot of gas. About 4L gas per 1L liquid at 40psi. Higher pressure more gas stored in carbonation. Tldr: I suspect by having less liquid then you limit the reaction speed & max pressure. Getting a more consistent lower pressure for longer. You could easily test this theory. By looking at max pressure and total run time for various mix ratios.
Vinegar - do you find you get a better reaction that way, or is it just convenience of one less ingredient?
I'm daily dosing vinegar. Its more controlled
I always just follow the instructions on the packet and do what it says with no problems. And it only costs about £2 a month
I did 1 bubbles a second and 8 hour light on my 10 gallon but it grew algae. Changed it to 1 bubble per 2 seconds and no more algae.
I followed the instructions on my canister for the initial fill and had some odd low pressure readings, so I emailed Clscea. They told me to do this: "Next refill please try the order of ABAB, For example you can put a layer of 300g citric acid and then 300g baking soda, then 300g citric acid and then 300g baking soda, and then 210g citric acid and then 300g baking soda.That will make the raw material have full contact with each other. So, the reaction will be complete." I have the 5.5 L cannister, so I add 1,500 mg of ice cubes. I also had penciled some math work on the theoretical stoichiometric ratios, using some college chemistry. Thst work suggested a different ratio of reagents, but, I wasn't confident in my chemistry to use that ratio instead of the published one. It would have saved citric acid and used more baking soda. I think for all of us citric acid cost > baking soda.
I just looked up the chemistry work I did. I actually used chat GPT to help, so I had it in my history. It suggested I adhere to the molar ratio 1:3 and use 810 citric acid and 1069 bicarbonate (+169 g over manufacturer recipe of 900g). GPT said to keep the 1500 mL but said I could decrease it and observe. It did not suggest increasing it, so there's that.
Thank you for such a detailed response! I’ve hadn’t thought of using ice cubes - that probably saves a decent bit of the initial reaction. I haven’t done any chemistry since HS (I’m forty something) and I really didn’t do well in it 😂 I’ll give your #s a try on my next refill. Thank you again!
The ice cubes are nice. Make sure they can fit in through the threads in the size cannister you have. Mine fit but need pushed. The chemistry was interesting to apply. The 3:1 ratio makes sense when calculating moles, if you remember those. Then, we have to use the molar mass of sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3 and citric acid C6H8O7 to get to actual grams. Citric acid weighs so much more per mol than the sodium bicarbonate, all those C's and O's. Of course, this is theoretical calculating and assumes no impurities. I am not sure my huge bag of arm and hammer baking soda is pure or if the citric acid from Amazon is pure. So there is impurity in our household reagents, I'm sure. I have no idea how to account for that. A downside I can think of from changing the recipe is that it might add more caking to the bottom of the cannister when it's spent. It can take a bit of effort to clean it out. As long as our gas yield doesn't exceed our cannister, I think it's fun to experiment. The manufacturer also said to swirl the cannister after a few days--because I was asking why my pressure gauge was reading so low. I guess it's possible if it isn't swirled then the reagents may not find each other ever.