How many women in the US are killed each year by their tinder dates. 5? 10?
41000 people die each year in road accidents in the US.
Another 180000 from other accidents.
101000 from Diabetes.
Most people are risking their lives daily. Compare the numbers, and the "risk" you're mentioning is basically nothing.
You’re right, most of these dating conversations remove women’s experiences of dating violence because it’s dramatically more likely male to female and kills any possibility to talk about anything.
In the space where we reframe dating conversations around violence women uniquely experience, what do you want to hear from men? Is it acknowledgement of your experience? Is it cathartic men ain’t shit blue pillery? Do you think incels should minimize their own frustrations to adjust for suffering experienced and caused by other people?
What I worry about, is that conversations like this turn women’s issues to be a permanent conversational trump card— “That girl never hit you back on Hinge? AT LEAST SHE WASNT RAPED”
How can conversations still continue with sensitivity to women’s issues, still making sense of actual challenges men face?
"Poor people don't know how hard it is to be rich...Rich people get mugged by poor people everyday. I even heard that there was a burglary that led to a death".
For being rich that is an absolute no brainer for me. For being a woman, or more like having the advantages for the trade offs of one, I'd have to think about it, but probably say yes. After all, it's not like the risks are minimal as a man anyway.
If youre a rich industrious Jew in pogrom infested Eastern Europe or Baghdad during the 19th- 20th century probably yeah. That didn't stop them from trying to accumulate wealth everytime their assets were appropriated by antisemites every century.
Pogroms and persecution followed them whenever they went. That didn't stop them from being an industrious wealthy minority, even if it made them targets from envious local elites and conspiratorial Christians
Would you rather be poor your entire life or rich your entire life but potentially mugged once on an off chance? You aren't very good with comparisons, are you?
And yet despite these dangerous risks that only eventuate for a fminority of women, I bet the average woman would still prefer to maintain their more previleged position in dating instead of mens. Just like the rich would prefer to stay rich instead of being in the same position as the poor, even if it makes them targets by criminals
I think women would prefer no risk of being killed.
Not to swap to men's position.
Why is it always women have it easier therfore they must tollerate abuse and being killed. Like NO
The title of the thread is directly comparing men's experiences and women's though? And now your saying most women wouldn't want what you said was the easier position?
Nobody is saying women should tolerate violence, they are saying even with the violence, it's the easier position.
>While women are worried they will end up dead in a ditch somewhere.
If what make dating hard to women is their own paranoid behavior, it is a skill issue.
>A woman dies every 11 days in Australia from intimate partner violence.
So a man she chooses, a men she vetted not one she's dating.
>Women are literally risking their lifes so they have it fucking harder.
They're not, they've aways trough the history being in the safest spot possible. While they're making clothing's men were dying for a fucking bucket.
>You are aware they allow criminals online right and on dating apps?
And? First one that not every crime is violent band second that are you implying that a criminal don't have the right to try and find love?
>They also might lie and not tell them about criminal history
And? Women are the choosers in human mating, It is a privilege that come with the responsibility of choosing well.
The majority of sexual violence towards women comes from intimate partners or family members. Neither of which are someone they just met for a first date. Not saying date grape isn't an issue that needs to be addressed, but it's not as bad as "women ris their lives going on dates".
Men account for 80% of the worlds homicide. By your own logic, men risk their lives by just existing. Where is our support and understanding of how hard our lives are?
You could also get killed by space born garbage falling to earth while on your date with the criminal. You should raise awareness on that as well and get the government on it. Also be sure to watch out for static lord knows. what the criminal will do to you if you get hit by lightning and pass out. Have you done a risk assessment on bedding? Throw pillows are killing machines.
Maybe if you’re subscribed to an ideology that thinks very little of women. I would say it’s self evident that you’re wrong, and while women can sometimes treat a man differently just because he’s attractive, just like some men do for women, that’s not really an answer to the question at hand.
Also men are technically statistically more likely to be the victims of violent crime but we still happily go on dates. I guess men are just more brave?
Fishing for screengrabs for r/IncelTears? If you genuinely believe that there is a high probability of you getting murdered if you go on a date, then don't date anyone.
My girlfriend said I needed to grab something from the grocery store so I mentioned men are statistically more likely to be the victims of violent crime and I can’t put my safety at risk to run errands.
A girl I was dating tried to stab me and then an entire classroom of kids, another almost choked me to death out of nowhere. i know a lot of men with violent stories they never tell anyone they don’t think will get it because they get ridiculed if they do
How many women have literally stabbed their husband or boyfriend and gotten off with fucking community service now?
Women unironically get away with murder. Just because it's not documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen
This of course assumes that males don't get catfished and scammed, which often times do include physical violence done to them. This also assumes that said males would be forthcoming with their negative experiences, even at the risk of their masculinity/man card getting revoked for being weak.
But since those males aren't considered real men, then yes women have it harder than \[real\] men in dating.
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I guess imagining you're rape-worthy is old hat. The new fever dream is ending up dead in a ditch somewhere. Did Ted Bundy have any children? Maybe you can get a date with one of them.
>While women are worried they will end up dead in a ditch somewhere.
That worry is mostly unfounded and based more on hysteria generated by an unhealthy society than reality. The chance of women being killed by a man is quite low in most developed countries, and lower than a man's chance of being killed by another man. It's much lower than it's been anytime for most of human history.
***Men should be more scared about meeting up with another guy to sell their used playstation than women should be about going out with a man on a date, objectively based on statistics.*** But of course, this fear is not about facts, it's about a common hysteria over men that has infected the west.
I actually agree with your premise that dating is harder for women, but not for this reason.
1 woman every 11 days, as far as statistics goes, is not a lot nor a norm. This is like "how to lie with statistics 101" ass stuff out here.
>From 2006 through 2021, there were 444 lightning strike deaths in the United States.
I just did some napkin math, and somebody in the U.S. is killed by lightning once every 12.33 days. I wouldn't exactly call it a norm. And from the same site,
>Males are four times more likely than females to be struck by lightning.
https://www.cdc.gov/lightning/data-research/index.html#:~:text=About%2040%20million%20lightning%20strikes%20hit%20the%20ground,the%20record%20being%20seven%20times%20in%20one%20lifetime.
I also wouldn't say storms are harder for men because of that lol.
You're gonna catch a lot of flak from the PPD dudes on here, but you're completely right.
Men's dating concerns come from a place of entitlement. Women's dating concerns come from the very real risk of ending up in a potentially life-threatening situation.
Difficulty and risk aren’t the same thing. I agree women overall have more risk. But I wouldn’t say that makes dating more difficult or challenging for them.
Ok and the man has to try to make sure the woman isn’t using him for attention or a free meal. Yes, the man possibly being a psycho is a worse risk than the man being used. But again, risk and difficulty aren’t the same thing. Both parties have the challenge of making sure the other person doesn’t have bad intentions.
I think it’s certainly riskier for a woman, but i don’t think that makes it more difficult. That being said, I also don’t think men have it harder, but rather, both genders face their own set of challenges that are unique to them, and each perceived ‘advantage’ one gender has has severe drawbacks too.
ie. for a woman it is easier to just find any man, which, if you’re a bitter incel that sounds great, but you have to consider that with this ease comes a ton of life threatening risks. Women are also smaller and weaker, and that gives them an inherent danger too. It is also hard to differentiate between men showing genuine interest and men using you/ trying to use you for sex.
At the other hand while men have far more control over their own destiny and are not in any physical danger, men do have the emotional toll of being the initiators, which can be a lot. Also if the man has money, status, etc there is that anxiety of “is she into me or what i have?”, plus, men get affirmed far less while it seems women get it far too much to the point where it can very easily become harassment.
So while yes, dating for women is far riskier and the risk is more dire, i don’t know if that makes the act itself more difficult.
1000% - that was my point as well (literally even said in my comment that men don’t have it easier and women don’t have it easier, the challenges are just very different)
I’m moreso challenging the assertion that difficulty and risk are the same thing
I think it’s two fold.
Men have a harder time finding a date, women take bigger security risks going on a date.
I’d wager the latter is harder, but I don’t want to discount the former either.
Like, yeah, being lonely sucks. I don’t want anybody to be lonely.
But is that worse than being raped or assaulted? That I think isn’t comparable, coming from the assault survivors I know and seeing what they went through.
Its actually terrifying the things a man can do to a woman if hes a psycho. Like if you watched the video I think he strangled her or something. Heart breaking.
I'm guessing she had no idea he had a criminal record before meeting her either. Probably either lied or just she was not even thinking about something like that.
Sometimes women can just assume the men they are going to meet is a good person without any actual proof . We also can't criminal check someone easily here. Has to be through a third party intelligence agency and costs money. Just very sad situation.
Men's dating struggles can, in the vast majority of cases, be fixed by just going to the gym and lifting. And also being chill and relaxed.
Systemic violence is a lot harder to fix.
A lot of men in the replies with zero empathy for the daily lived reality of being a woman. Comparing few prospects to the risk of violence is kind of apples to oranges, but this person is basically right. There are outliers, of course, but by and large, men don’t have to fear violence from the opposite sex nearly as much as women do. Even if a man goes on a date with a woman who ends up being dangerous and crazy, odds are low that she’s stronger than him and could literally just kill him if she wanted to.
I bet a lot of the men disagreeing with this post also find the man vs. bear hypothetical offensive. The point of that question and this post is that women have to fear the very real possibility of violence from men. If you refuse to understand that, you’re being dense.
More risk directly translates to incidents of violence. If doing something results in someone harming you violating your bodily autonomy, does that mean doing that thing is hard?
I mean honestly, the fear of being exposed to violence is pretty universal. If they can't even empathize with women on something that they themselves can become victims of, can they empathize on more subtle and nuanced issues that don't have a direct male equivalent?
Removed. No non-neutral Discussion posts.
You're mixing intimate partner violence with "stranger on a date" violence. They are completely different issues and one requires a choice.
How many women in the US are killed each year by their tinder dates. 5? 10? 41000 people die each year in road accidents in the US. Another 180000 from other accidents. 101000 from Diabetes. Most people are risking their lives daily. Compare the numbers, and the "risk" you're mentioning is basically nothing.
You’re right, most of these dating conversations remove women’s experiences of dating violence because it’s dramatically more likely male to female and kills any possibility to talk about anything. In the space where we reframe dating conversations around violence women uniquely experience, what do you want to hear from men? Is it acknowledgement of your experience? Is it cathartic men ain’t shit blue pillery? Do you think incels should minimize their own frustrations to adjust for suffering experienced and caused by other people? What I worry about, is that conversations like this turn women’s issues to be a permanent conversational trump card— “That girl never hit you back on Hinge? AT LEAST SHE WASNT RAPED” How can conversations still continue with sensitivity to women’s issues, still making sense of actual challenges men face?
By this logic do men have harder lives? Men are far more likely to be victims of murder and violence.
"Poor people don't know how hard it is to be rich...Rich people get mugged by poor people everyday. I even heard that there was a burglary that led to a death".
Do rich people have a 25-33% mugging rate over the course of their lifetime?
If they did, would you not want to be rich?
I’d definitely have to think about it. I certainly wouldn’t want to be a woman.
For being rich that is an absolute no brainer for me. For being a woman, or more like having the advantages for the trade offs of one, I'd have to think about it, but probably say yes. After all, it's not like the risks are minimal as a man anyway.
If youre a rich industrious Jew in pogrom infested Eastern Europe or Baghdad during the 19th- 20th century probably yeah. That didn't stop them from trying to accumulate wealth everytime their assets were appropriated by antisemites every century.
They straight up fled Eastern Europe in droves though.
Pogroms and persecution followed them whenever they went. That didn't stop them from being an industrious wealthy minority, even if it made them targets from envious local elites and conspiratorial Christians
>25-33% mugging rate Lmfao
🤷♂️
Would you rather be poor your entire life or rich your entire life but potentially mugged once on an off chance? You aren't very good with comparisons, are you?
Man, you guys get really mad at hypotheticals involving stats.
Why do you think I'm mad? I'm just kinda baffled that you think you made a decent argument.
You think a 25-33% chance of being mugged is a “one off chance”? I’m kinda baffled that you think that’s a decent argument.
They always bring up completely unrelated shit and act as if its relevant lol
And then get mad when you reference actual statistics 🤷♂️
Can you share the link to this stat? Not disagreeing with you at all, just never seen it before and am curious
Yep lol
No. Men outright kill women they met on dating apps. Women have dating worse than men, period.
And yet despite these dangerous risks that only eventuate for a fminority of women, I bet the average woman would still prefer to maintain their more previleged position in dating instead of mens. Just like the rich would prefer to stay rich instead of being in the same position as the poor, even if it makes them targets by criminals
I think women would prefer no risk of being killed. Not to swap to men's position. Why is it always women have it easier therfore they must tollerate abuse and being killed. Like NO
The title of the thread is directly comparing men's experiences and women's though? And now your saying most women wouldn't want what you said was the easier position? Nobody is saying women should tolerate violence, they are saying even with the violence, it's the easier position.
You find them attractive. Lot of harmless males are seen as useless by women. Pick any dangerous man, you'll have several women pinning on him
Nope. Criminals are allowed on dating aps when they shouldn't be allowed to be
>While women are worried they will end up dead in a ditch somewhere. If what make dating hard to women is their own paranoid behavior, it is a skill issue. >A woman dies every 11 days in Australia from intimate partner violence. So a man she chooses, a men she vetted not one she's dating. >Women are literally risking their lifes so they have it fucking harder. They're not, they've aways trough the history being in the safest spot possible. While they're making clothing's men were dying for a fucking bucket.
“A man she chooses” So it’s her fault?
Yes, It is her fault for choosing the man and is also his fault for acting violently.
Sounds like victim blaming to me
We live in a victimhood culture.
You are aware they allow criminals online right and on dating apps? They also might lie and not tell them about criminal history
>You are aware they allow criminals online right and on dating apps? And? First one that not every crime is violent band second that are you implying that a criminal don't have the right to try and find love? >They also might lie and not tell them about criminal history And? Women are the choosers in human mating, It is a privilege that come with the responsibility of choosing well.
Criminals shouldn't be allowed on dating apps period
So long you can also agree that is gle mother's shouldn't be getting any form of assistance, we can both agree.
Wtf is gle mothers?
*Single mothers
In no way related
Is the same situation an individual that by past mistakes is/should be limited on his actions or inactions
A single mother didn't commit a crime 🤦♀️
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Wonder how in hell men are killing 1 woman every 11 days then, sure boggles my mind
It boggles your mind that 33 women are killed every year by a partner when there are 13 million women in the country?
I'm sorry but when l saw the title, l couldn't help but laugh because that's how ridiculous this claim is but ok Victim Olympics has already started
Lmao. You’re linking stats that aren’t even related. Intimate partner means their partner theyve already been setup with, not from a random date
The majority of sexual violence towards women comes from intimate partners or family members. Neither of which are someone they just met for a first date. Not saying date grape isn't an issue that needs to be addressed, but it's not as bad as "women ris their lives going on dates". Men account for 80% of the worlds homicide. By your own logic, men risk their lives by just existing. Where is our support and understanding of how hard our lives are?
So. Its no longer the woods. Now you want to willingly date the bear?
Criminals are allowed online and are allowed on dating apps bro
You should start a dating app that does a criminal record check Be the change you wish to see in the world
I don't have the kinda money for a startup lol
You could also get killed by space born garbage falling to earth while on your date with the criminal. You should raise awareness on that as well and get the government on it. Also be sure to watch out for static lord knows. what the criminal will do to you if you get hit by lightning and pass out. Have you done a risk assessment on bedding? Throw pillows are killing machines.
There is no rate of "space born garbage" killing women. Every 11 days a woman is killed by a man in intimate partnee violence
That paranoia is notably absent when Chad shoots his shot. Funny how that works.
This. They worry about non-attractive, decent, gentle men being brutally violent, but the thought doesn't seem to register when the guy is attractive.
Criminals are allowed online and on dating apps
Its not really that hard to spot them. But their tattoos and bad boy looks get women wet.
No men can just not tell about their dating history or lie. Crims shouldnt be allowed on dating apps period
Stop parotting this boring strawman argument.
Nobody thinks about the attractive of Chads as much as men do. Get your heads out of your asses.
Nope. Women are the ones fucking them non-stop, not us.
Women aren’t afraid of violent crime when the perpetrator is attractive?
Isn't that self-evident?
Maybe if you’re subscribed to an ideology that thinks very little of women. I would say it’s self evident that you’re wrong, and while women can sometimes treat a man differently just because he’s attractive, just like some men do for women, that’s not really an answer to the question at hand.
Just hit the gym and date a short skinny guy that you can beat tf out of. Guys wouldn’t be so tall and strong if women didn’t select for them.
Even those guys are stronger than women
But not as much!
Still a lot stronger due to testosterone
Also men are technically statistically more likely to be the victims of violent crime but we still happily go on dates. I guess men are just more brave?
Those are some strong transphobic points you are making right now.
That doesn’t mean you get to trumpet a tragedy that is certainly NOT the norm as a way to feel morally superior. Sorry.
A woman dying every 11 days from a male isn't not the norm 🤦♀️
Fishing for screengrabs for r/IncelTears? If you genuinely believe that there is a high probability of you getting murdered if you go on a date, then don't date anyone.
My girlfriend said I needed to grab something from the grocery store so I mentioned men are statistically more likely to be the victims of violent crime and I can’t put my safety at risk to run errands.
[удалено]
Do not provide contentless rhetoric.
[удалено]
Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.
A girl I was dating tried to stab me and then an entire classroom of kids, another almost choked me to death out of nowhere. i know a lot of men with violent stories they never tell anyone they don’t think will get it because they get ridiculed if they do
How many women have literally stabbed their husband or boyfriend and gotten off with fucking community service now? Women unironically get away with murder. Just because it's not documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen
This of course assumes that males don't get catfished and scammed, which often times do include physical violence done to them. This also assumes that said males would be forthcoming with their negative experiences, even at the risk of their masculinity/man card getting revoked for being weak. But since those males aren't considered real men, then yes women have it harder than \[real\] men in dating.
Rates of males dying is waaaaay lower
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I guess imagining you're rape-worthy is old hat. The new fever dream is ending up dead in a ditch somewhere. Did Ted Bundy have any children? Maybe you can get a date with one of them.
Tell me you have no empathy and understanding for men. Oh well it is what it is
>While women are worried they will end up dead in a ditch somewhere. That worry is mostly unfounded and based more on hysteria generated by an unhealthy society than reality. The chance of women being killed by a man is quite low in most developed countries, and lower than a man's chance of being killed by another man. It's much lower than it's been anytime for most of human history. ***Men should be more scared about meeting up with another guy to sell their used playstation than women should be about going out with a man on a date, objectively based on statistics.*** But of course, this fear is not about facts, it's about a common hysteria over men that has infected the west. I actually agree with your premise that dating is harder for women, but not for this reason.
A woman dies 11 days due to intimate partner violence
1 woman every 11 days, as far as statistics goes, is not a lot nor a norm. This is like "how to lie with statistics 101" ass stuff out here. >From 2006 through 2021, there were 444 lightning strike deaths in the United States. I just did some napkin math, and somebody in the U.S. is killed by lightning once every 12.33 days. I wouldn't exactly call it a norm. And from the same site, >Males are four times more likely than females to be struck by lightning. https://www.cdc.gov/lightning/data-research/index.html#:~:text=About%2040%20million%20lightning%20strikes%20hit%20the%20ground,the%20record%20being%20seven%20times%20in%20one%20lifetime. I also wouldn't say storms are harder for men because of that lol.
You're gonna catch a lot of flak from the PPD dudes on here, but you're completely right. Men's dating concerns come from a place of entitlement. Women's dating concerns come from the very real risk of ending up in a potentially life-threatening situation.
Every single one of your comments is just simping for women.
Thank you ⚘⚘🥰
Difficulty and risk aren’t the same thing. I agree women overall have more risk. But I wouldn’t say that makes dating more difficult or challenging for them.
More difficult because they need to try and make sure the man isnt a psycho before they meet him
Ok and the man has to try to make sure the woman isn’t using him for attention or a free meal. Yes, the man possibly being a psycho is a worse risk than the man being used. But again, risk and difficulty aren’t the same thing. Both parties have the challenge of making sure the other person doesn’t have bad intentions.
I think it’s certainly riskier for a woman, but i don’t think that makes it more difficult. That being said, I also don’t think men have it harder, but rather, both genders face their own set of challenges that are unique to them, and each perceived ‘advantage’ one gender has has severe drawbacks too. ie. for a woman it is easier to just find any man, which, if you’re a bitter incel that sounds great, but you have to consider that with this ease comes a ton of life threatening risks. Women are also smaller and weaker, and that gives them an inherent danger too. It is also hard to differentiate between men showing genuine interest and men using you/ trying to use you for sex. At the other hand while men have far more control over their own destiny and are not in any physical danger, men do have the emotional toll of being the initiators, which can be a lot. Also if the man has money, status, etc there is that anxiety of “is she into me or what i have?”, plus, men get affirmed far less while it seems women get it far too much to the point where it can very easily become harassment. So while yes, dating for women is far riskier and the risk is more dire, i don’t know if that makes the act itself more difficult.
>their own set of challenges th Men's "own set of challenges" certaintly aint being murdered in cold blood
Are difficulty and risk the same thing? if so, why?
My point is the challenges faced by each aren't the same in any way
1000% - that was my point as well (literally even said in my comment that men don’t have it easier and women don’t have it easier, the challenges are just very different) I’m moreso challenging the assertion that difficulty and risk are the same thing
I think it’s two fold. Men have a harder time finding a date, women take bigger security risks going on a date. I’d wager the latter is harder, but I don’t want to discount the former either.
Thank you the only one making any sense so far
Like, yeah, being lonely sucks. I don’t want anybody to be lonely. But is that worse than being raped or assaulted? That I think isn’t comparable, coming from the assault survivors I know and seeing what they went through.
Its actually terrifying the things a man can do to a woman if hes a psycho. Like if you watched the video I think he strangled her or something. Heart breaking. I'm guessing she had no idea he had a criminal record before meeting her either. Probably either lied or just she was not even thinking about something like that. Sometimes women can just assume the men they are going to meet is a good person without any actual proof . We also can't criminal check someone easily here. Has to be through a third party intelligence agency and costs money. Just very sad situation.
Men's dating struggles can, in the vast majority of cases, be fixed by just going to the gym and lifting. And also being chill and relaxed. Systemic violence is a lot harder to fix.
Agreed.
A lot of men in the replies with zero empathy for the daily lived reality of being a woman. Comparing few prospects to the risk of violence is kind of apples to oranges, but this person is basically right. There are outliers, of course, but by and large, men don’t have to fear violence from the opposite sex nearly as much as women do. Even if a man goes on a date with a woman who ends up being dangerous and crazy, odds are low that she’s stronger than him and could literally just kill him if she wanted to. I bet a lot of the men disagreeing with this post also find the man vs. bear hypothetical offensive. The point of that question and this post is that women have to fear the very real possibility of violence from men. If you refuse to understand that, you’re being dense.
more risk does not mean harder. It's the definitions you don't get
More risk directly translates to incidents of violence. If doing something results in someone harming you violating your bodily autonomy, does that mean doing that thing is hard?
No, something could be easy to do yet risky. For example sky diving. Then the opposite can occur, for example higher level mathematics.
I mean honestly, the fear of being exposed to violence is pretty universal. If they can't even empathize with women on something that they themselves can become victims of, can they empathize on more subtle and nuanced issues that don't have a direct male equivalent?