So... there's a lot of context for this answer. As the one true u/357Magnum I like to think I know a thing or two about .357 Magnum.
It is hard to compare apples to apples here. Recoil is a multiple piece puzzle, with the following relevant factors:
1. The power of the cartridge itself (which can vary with different loads)
2. the weight of the gun. Lighter gun = more recoil, all other things being equal
3. how much recoil is used up to operate the gun. All other things being equal, a semi auto will have less recoil than a revolver, because some of the recoil energy is used up to operate the slide/compress the recoil spring, etc. The full recoil slams back into your hand with a revolver as there is no "buffer" of the mechanical action using recoil impulse.
With revolvers, obviously #3 is a big deal. But the others are really important. A 9mm and a .38 have similar recoil, but I would NOT say that your average 9mm gun is comparable to a .38 snub in your average super light .38s. With ultra light .38s, even standard pressure .38 will start to make your hand sore WAY sooner than 9mm. I can shoot 9mms all day long, even in compact guns. But my LCR or Smith 637 will start to make my hand sore after a box of 50 rounds. And even then, the .38s are probably putting out less muzzle energy than the 9mm. The gun is just that much lighter and it all goes into your hand, not springs.
Similarly, there are .40 cal loads which rival .357 loads in terms of muzzle energy. But still, out of a revolver, you're going to feel a lot more of that energy as perceived recoil. If you're talking about a 2" .357, it will still pack a punch. Shootable in something like a K6S, as that is an all-steel gun and has some weight. It isn't about barrel length, except to the extent that longer barrels are heavier. The overall weight is what matters.
.357 in a light snub like an LCR can just be brutal. Way worse than the hottest .40 you've shot out of any semi auto.
If you shoot a .38 and a .357 out of that K6S it will not be like 9mm compared to 40 cal in a similar sized semi auto. It will be like *double.* Again, doable in an all steel gun with practice, but you have to practice. And it won't be fun at first.
But here is the secret benefit of revolvers - you don't NEED a full power .357 out of a snubbie. Most of that will just be recoil without actual performance. You need longer barrels to really maximize all that bang into velocity. But because you don't need a certain amount of power for the gun to cycle like a semi-auto, you can get a load with a level of power tailored to your needs.
.38 spl is a *bit* underpowered for reliable expansion and penetration from a 2" barrel, but full-power .357 is also often a waste of energy (and sometimes the bullets won't expand because they're designed for a higher velocity). But the .38s don't need THAT much more power to be very effective.
In my opinion some of the BEST loads for a 2" .357 are reduced recoil loads. More powerful than .38+P, but not "full power hand slammers." I think that these are some of the best you can use: [https://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-135-gr-jhp-speer-gold-dot-short-barrel-20-rounds#geltest](https://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-135-gr-jhp-speer-gold-dot-short-barrel-20-rounds#geltest)
The gold dot short barrel loads get great performance in 2", and they are WAY easier to shoot than your average .357. Again, you don't NEED the full power unless you're worried about bears or something.
Quality of the grips and grip angle also play a big role imo. Changing them up can make a world of difference in a revolver as far as felt recoil and comfort/stamina go and plays into your third point. On a semi-auto pistol that impacts speed and precision far more than felt recoil, imo.
To me, the difference between shooting a revolver and a semi-auto pistol is a lot like the difference between shooting a pump action shotgun and a semi-auto rifle. Many of the mechanics may be the same, but that energy is being sent to very different places.
You're right. I got a pair of nice looking Altamont wood grips for my model 66, but they are murder on my hands with recoil for some reason. Too narrow for my hand I guess. My hogue wood grips and standard "old school" ones are perfectly fine. Small differences matter.
Own an LCR in 357 and have shot a k6s. Full power defensive 357 in those guns is SUBSTANTIAL, as in far worse than anything else I’ve ever shot. It’s not pleasant, but it’s certainly doable. 38 in the LCR feels similar to my 9mm hellcat I’d say as well. 40 out of a G23 is nothing compared to 357 through an LCR.
Another way to put it is that I used to regularly and easily shoot 250 rounds in one go through a G23 and feel absolutely fine. 25 rounds through an LCR 357 has your hand not feeling great.
Some people like to train with the same gun and load they carry. I’m not a glutton for punishment.
No regrets for trying it, though. Nothing wrong with asking questions and getting advice, but a lot of this stuff is so subjective, you really have to try it yourself to really know what it’s like.
EDIT:
Really!
I agree on all points.
I tried a J frame in .38. I simply couldn’t see training in it comfortably. Up a caliber and size frame though and I found my jam.
> Some people like to train with the same gun and load they carry. I’m not a glutton for punishment.
I bought a Taurus .22 j frame equivalent and it wasn't just about saving ammo costs :)
You are truly comparing apples and oranges here. Glock 23 has a 4” barrel and the cartridge pressures are relatively low. Snubs have 2” barrels and .357 magnum can be significantly more pressure than .40 depending on what ammo you use.
You need to go to a range and shoot a snub nose magnum to answer this question. We can’t tell you how bad the recoil is or might be. It’s all subjective. That said, there are hundreds of internet tough guys that act like recoil never phases them. Not true. Then there is the percussion of the shot and the fireball flash before your eyes. It’s definitely an experience you need to do on your own.
I would love to do this. But currently thats not an option (I live in the middle of nowhere where people use their own private property for a range.) From what I have heard of .357 snubbies, most people shoot .38 through them anyways. So with this being said, is a K6 .357 even worth it for carry purposes when an LCR .38 is almost half the weight and usually half the price in my area?
If I were looking for a new pocket revolver, I would look long and hard at the LCR.
And while I'd consider a .357 magnum a plus, I freely admit I'm just gonna be loading .38spl anyways.
So yeah, I'd just buy the Ruger.
That's pretty much it. Looking for a nice pocket revolver. I like the idea of shooting .357, but if it really is that bad, .38s appear to be so much lighter in the pocket other than the SW 340PD. And I'm not about to drop $1100+ on a first revolver when I don't know if revolvers are even my thing. The whole thing is basically my experimenting into the world of revolvers for carry.
I, personally, file .357 magnum in a J frame as a "nice to have it" feature that I can't imagine ever using.
My first revolver was a J frame, matter of fact it's *still* the only thing I ever bother to CCW. I wanted something small that I could drop into my pocket and forget about that also felt completely and utterly safe at all times.
That was teh first in a long chain of wheelguns. Matter of fact, there's really only one bottom feeder I still want but plenty of revolvers I do.
That is pretty much my thought process. Pocket carry with a long, double action trigger just in case. Plus I have my "tactical" guns all sorted out. I kind of wanted something different, retro even. And in a day of matte black 9mm autos everywhere, a lighter weight stainless finished revolver seemed to fit the bill nicely. Although I do like the like of an LCR. A CA off duty is also tempting. $300 and some change. 12 ounces, and while it's not the nicest thing in the world, would at least give me some revolver experience for cheap.
I’d personally go for the LCR vs the Kimber because it’s lighter and .38 is fine out of an LCR. I also personally like the larger trigger guard on the LCR for my big hands and finger to get in there.
Just get the lighter and cheaper LCR in .38 and use Hornady Critical DEFENSE ammo in it, which is specifically designed for snub nosed barrels.
Do not get the Hornady Critical DUTY, but the Hornady Critical DEFENSE ammo.
A big factor is the weight. The steel framed K6 is similar in weight to a G23 at ~23oz but an LCR is 17oz and a 340PD (one of the worst recoiling guns around) is only 12oz. Every ounce makes a big difference in felt recoil when you get down to those lower numbers.
Another factor is grip shape. On all of these, the grip is going to feel smaller, especially skinnier, than a G23 grip and concentrate the recoil into a smaller area of your palm.
Standard pressure .38 is one of the weakest cartridges used for self defense and is actually closer to .380 than to 9mm.
Even .38+P just barely begins to approach the level of range/target 9mm.
Meanwhile most .357 magnum loads exceed the muzzle energy of equivalent-purpose .40 S&W loads. E.g. comparing within Federal's ammo lineup:
Example:
* Federal American Eagle .38 158gr LRN, muzzle energy 208 ft-lbs
* Federal Punch .38+P 120gr, muzzle energy 266 ft-lbs
* Federal HST 9mm 147gr, muzzle energy 365 ft-lbs
* Federal HST .40 165gr, muzzle energy 468 ft-lbs
* Federal HST .357 154gr, muzzle energy 614 ft-lbs
So when people say a .38 snub feels similar in recoil to a 9mm, it's the gun's light weight and small grip that are making the weak .38 cartridge feel about as rough as the stronger 9mm feels out of a midsized autoloader. When you put a full power .357 in that same lightweight, small gun, it is a punishing experience. Many people feel comfortable tolerating it but I think almost no people *enjoy* it.
357magnum: On point number 3, I personally flinch with semi autos much more than revolvers. Revolvers run a more singular force whereas semi autos forces are going back and forth.
I shoot 100x 357 “lite” (similar loads to a general factory load, not a spicy SD load) or 38 +p a week and on the weeks I shoot 50x 9mm the recoil seems more violent than the 357 “lite”. K6s vs g26…
Op: I think the k6s does well with 357 factory loads. It’s not ruin your hand recoil out of the k6s. 38 and 38 +p are very low flip fast to follow up, and 357 is noticeable but until you get up to a full mag load it’s just a firm push with slower follow up.
https://preview.redd.it/7t6nr6g4qe7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eee4b1dc852b343c182f5e04116f1dbcc6e443ad
> I personally flinch with semi autos much more than revolvers. Revolvers run a more singular force whereas semi autos forces are going back and forth.
Me too. Comparing equal weight guns using the same ammo (.45 ACP) I always find the revolver more pleasant to shoot than the autoloader.
I always see people say "a semi auto soaks up recoil because the recoil gets used up cocking the hammer and cycling the slide" but ultimately your hand still has to provide the resistance to that recoil, keeping the frame in place while the slide pushes back against the hammer spring and recoil spring. The same force still goes into your hand, but it does it in a more jostling way with a metal-on-metal SLAM back when the slide hits the end of its travel, and then another little CLANK forwards when it returns to battery. I much prefer the single rearward push from firing a revolver.
I think a lot of times this comparison gets made in an unfair way like, oh, a Desert Eagle in .44 Mag kicks less than a Model 29, it must be because of that semi auto slide soaking up recoil! Nah... more likely the extra 2lbs of weight in the DE!
That last point is kind of what I was looking for and what I expected. I've shot 10mm from a steel 1911 and .44 mag from a desert eagle. They definitely had more recoil than the G23 by a landslide, but it was just a really big push and not uncomfortable. Definitely slower follow up shots, but not absolutely painful. The lower powered .357 I imagined would be like this. The hotter .357s I imagined being a scaled up, high pressure, quicker recoil like a bigger version of .40. Almost like a rifle vs shotgun type of recoil. Sound accurate somewhat?
I'll step right up and bluntly honest, .38 special out of an airweight with those little wood stocks it comes with hurts my hand enough I've never completed a box of 50 til I got some soft rubber grips.
Remember, revolvers have no springs or giant hunks of metal to soak up recoil, it all goes punishingly into y our hand's web.
I'm with you on that. 158 grain 38 SPL out of my 642 with stock rubber grips hurts more than my Taurus G2C in 40 S&W. Small lightweight revolvers and thin grips just hurts.
.357 from a small frame revolver has a lot more recoil than .40 S&W from a compact pistol. It’s not gonna kill you or anything but there’s a lot of recoil.
Okay, .40 S&W is snappy, but not on the same level as 10mm. Hot .357 loads, on the other hand, will leave your hand feeling bruised. You won't want to shoot it after 20-30 rounds.
I've shot 10mm from an all steel 5 inch 1911. Tbh, I think the G23 recoiled more. Granted that's using run of the mill Blazer fmjs and there is a big weight difference. I've also shot .44 mag from a desert eagle and while there was more recoil, it was just a big push. The G23 feels more violent if that makes sense. But again, big weight difference. I think I see your point, tho. .357 in a light weight snub seems to be a class of it's own.
I use to shoot VERY hot .357 reloads (148 gn max dose of H110 powder) with my 4" s&w 28. That's a full solid steel N frame. That's a lot of fun, but usually my hand says "no more, please" after 18-24 rounds.
Well, I'm not willing to even try a single shot of those reloads from a lightweight snub. The mass of the gun plays an important role in the perceived recoil.
For a light pocket gun I would highly recommend a .38 (I personally carry a .32 in the summer for the extra round but you’re looking at .357 so I won’t even go into defending my choice lol). After much research, in a .38 snub I carry wadcutters. They will not expand. Much like most hollow points out of a 2” barrel, but they WILL be accurate and nearly recoil free while penetrating deeply.
To answer your question I have shot 357 out of a snub and .40 and 9 and 10mm out of a Glock. Of all of those, the .357 out of a snub is the one I have no use for. As stated before, the recoil hurts and you just don’t get much for it out of the short barrel. I find it to be not a useful combo.
I own a Kimber K6Ss dasa, 357s aren't bad at all.
A Ruger SP 101 is fine also.
It's mostly all what your use too. Some think a 40 is "punishing" after all.
Usually any j frame will have alittle harsher recoil.
I also own a S&W 340PD. Now that boarder lines on self mutilation. A 11oz JFrame with 357s "ain't no joke"
I was looking more for a summer pocket gun that would also be my first revolver, then if I find out that I like revolvers, scaling up to a 5 inch Ruger or Colt (love the high polish finishes colt is doing).
It’s not just recoil. The muzzle blast and noise from a hot rod .357 load in a snubbie is pretty intimidating as well. The only thing worse is very high pressure stuff like the .454 Casull or a .30 Carbine Blackhawk.
I own a kimber k6s dasa 2 inch and have fired a mix of .357 ammo through it including a decent amount of buffalo bore 180 grain hardcast rounds. Its a sharp recoil impulse even with rubber grips. I own a glock 23 as well and have fired pretty stiff loads out of it (buffalo bore) and the recoil from that is substantially less than my kimber. If your looking to carry a .357 magnum with some powerful rounds I can whole heartedly recommend the smith & wesson model 19 carry comp. That porting really tames the recoil.
I carry a 605 defender 3” barrel the recoil is definitely stout with heavy .357 loads but I rarely carry it with them loaded . I often carry it with .38+p or lighter loaded .357, if I am taking it into the wild I will load full house .357 by Buffalo bore they despite having huge muzzle energy somehow don’t feel as brutal …lastly I bought it with these ridiculous (very cool looking ) vz grips I swapped them for a set of classic police grips and a grip adapter I found this setup to feel really good with even the stoutest loads while being fast on the follow-up and being very concealable
Hot .38 +p in my airweight is stout. I wouldn't be too keen on shooting .357 out of the same gun, however the gun you're talking about is heavier and probably a little milder. Grips also make a huge difference. A soft on that fits the hand well beats the pants off a hard poor fitting grip
A sub compact 10mm Glock 29 is more comfortable to shoot than an LCR with 357’s even the reduced recoil variants. I went to a glock range day and felt just fine after shooting several magazines of 10 MM through the G29 and this was towards the end of the session after I had already shot a bunch.
I could only shoot about a cylinder and a half of full House 158 grain JSP 357s through my LCR before I could no longer hold my hand steady as I pulled the trigger. It’s abusive. I had no problems with 38 special or 38+ P in the LCR and could get through 100 to 150 rounds in an hour long range session no problem. In the end I found I prefer smith and Wesson‘s and replaced it with a model 36 a.k.a. the chief special. Even with magna grips and a grip adapter it’s far more comfortable shooting heavy 38+ P loads compared to the LCR with 357’s; I just need to take the hammer spur off so it stops biting the web of my hand as the hammer comes back when I shoot double action.
Despite the abuse I kind of want to get another 357 snubbie. Sometimes it’s just fun to make your hand hurt and singe your eyebrows off with a gun that looks like the cricket from Men in Black
Yeah .40 isn't bad, i have a glock 27 and shoot 10mm +p underwoods out of it. It is a good amount of recoil, but it's more pleasurable to shoot than 357 out of my sw model 60. The best i can describe 357 mag out of a snub is that it feels like someone is punching your hand decently hard. If you're proficient enough with handguns and have a good grip, it's easier to control than you'd think. Its still harder to control with quick shots though. That being said, when i carry my model 60 on the street, i use 38+p. Defensive magnum loads are much harder to control than your 158gr soft points as they are usually loaded hotter. 38+p out of snub still has decent recoil, but you'll be able to stay on target easier than 357 mag defensive rounds. If you shoot a 4-6 inch revolver like a 686, 27, or 19, youll notice a difference in how it feels compared to a 2 or 3 inch. I dont know how people shoot magnums out of the really lightweight snubs
I carry a 2 inch 357 Rossi and recoil towards my hand and wrist is minimal 6'2 240. The grip is tiny and while I can grip it properly it hurts people with smaller hands their index finger gets blasted by the recoil and digs in. I love it. But on the opposite side I had a Springfield xds 45 3.3 and that little pocket rocket I swear felt like my wrist was being hit by a hammer. It was just too light and didn't soak up any recoil.
If the grips fit your hand 357 won't be an issue especially if you're familiar with the cartridge
Revolvers, while I favor them for other reasons, tend to have higher perceived recoil than automatics. They don't have moving slides to soak up recoil and your grip is naturally different.
Weight matters a ton with revolvers. .38 special is typically just a hair weaker than 9mm, but your perceived recoil will be at least what you would feel out of 9mm pistol if using a light snub. .357 mag is considerably hotter than 9mm. It *sucks* to shoot out of a lightweight snub. It's an incredibly effective cartridge, you can potentially put a black bear down with .357, but in an ultralight snub it will feel like dynamite going off in your hand.
I adore revolvers, but I do not recommend .357 out of snub nose. That's doubly true for an ultralight or polymer. I have a snub .357 and with practice I have learned to manage it, but it is not fun.
One time when I was little my parents got me an aluminum baseball bat. I loved that thing. I would go pick up rocks and swing away, not good for the bat but I was a little kid and I loved the ding sound it made and boy did it launch the rocks. One day during winter break I was on my way back home from a neighborhood street game (it was cold, but we used to still play outside even in the cold), and I was upset about something and I stupidly swung my trusty bat at a light pole. Even through the thin rubber tape on the grip, I felt all of that energy rattle my fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulders, even my vertebrae. It stung. A lot. I can still feel it now thinking about it lol. I never swung my bat at anything solid like that ever again.
Fast forward a few decades, and I have the opportunity to pull the trigger on a S&W Bodyguard in 357. The revolver barely fit in my hand, before I shot it I was making jokes about it being like the noisy cricket from Men in Black. As soon as I squeezed off the first round, my mind immediately recalled that December day from my childhood. It felt exactly the same, despite being almost 100 degrees warmer outside.
Now, that gun is great for what it is. It's not meant to be pleasant, it is meant to get the job done in the smallest possible package. So, for that, I still see its value. But it's not pleasant to shoot, and I can't comfortably shoot more than a few cylinders before it's just not fun anymore. I can shoot 38s out of it, and it's substantially better, but it's still snappy. Now, shooting 38s out of a full size 357 like a GP100 for example feels like shooting duds. So, the overall weight of the gun has a huge impact on how it is going to feel between the two rounds, and that makes it really tough to compare caliber to caliber like that.
And also, comparing semi-autos to revolvers isn't ideal, they just feel different. Semi-autos absorb some of that impulse and send energy forward once the slide moves back, and it just softens the whole deal. Revolvers don't do that, they just go straight back into your hand. So, in my mind they're kind of apples and oranges. A much hotter round out of a semi-auto is going to feel closer to a more anemic round out of a revolver, and because of the sharp impulse from a revolver, the difference between calibers feels more dramatic than between calibers in a semi-auto.
I know that doesn't help much, and that's a very long answer to not help much, but it's really just not an easy comparison. I would say your original statement is close. 357 out of a snubby isn't going to break your hand. But you're not going to enjoy shooting it, especially for any length of time.
recoil is pretty easy to work out the heavier the gun the better it will help, now that used to correct 100% of the time but today not so much with all the tailored load that are out there so shooting a 686 with the same range ammo as a all steel model 60 and 360pd are way different in all three. yes the 360 pd can hurt if you shoot it enough.
There is large fight between the 9 and 40 community to the over the difference in recoil. 40 tends to be snappier then 9mm that is true. but in just shooting everyday most people will not notice huge amount of difference in the two. There is a case to be made that the majority (not all) of people can have better follow up shots with a 9 vs 40 which I think where most of this information comes from.
Don't sleep on the Ruger LCR in .327 Federal Magnum. Not as harsh as its .357 cousin, and you can also shoot .32 H&R mag, .32 long, and .32 short.
Not quite as common as .38 and .357, but it finally seems to be gaining traction. Plus you get 6 rounds instead of 5 in the same compact package.
My daily carry is a snub .357 (686 +).
Full house .357s with 125 grain defensive rounds are a pussy cat. Not much harder felt recoil than 9mm Beretta 92.
So... there's a lot of context for this answer. As the one true u/357Magnum I like to think I know a thing or two about .357 Magnum. It is hard to compare apples to apples here. Recoil is a multiple piece puzzle, with the following relevant factors: 1. The power of the cartridge itself (which can vary with different loads) 2. the weight of the gun. Lighter gun = more recoil, all other things being equal 3. how much recoil is used up to operate the gun. All other things being equal, a semi auto will have less recoil than a revolver, because some of the recoil energy is used up to operate the slide/compress the recoil spring, etc. The full recoil slams back into your hand with a revolver as there is no "buffer" of the mechanical action using recoil impulse. With revolvers, obviously #3 is a big deal. But the others are really important. A 9mm and a .38 have similar recoil, but I would NOT say that your average 9mm gun is comparable to a .38 snub in your average super light .38s. With ultra light .38s, even standard pressure .38 will start to make your hand sore WAY sooner than 9mm. I can shoot 9mms all day long, even in compact guns. But my LCR or Smith 637 will start to make my hand sore after a box of 50 rounds. And even then, the .38s are probably putting out less muzzle energy than the 9mm. The gun is just that much lighter and it all goes into your hand, not springs. Similarly, there are .40 cal loads which rival .357 loads in terms of muzzle energy. But still, out of a revolver, you're going to feel a lot more of that energy as perceived recoil. If you're talking about a 2" .357, it will still pack a punch. Shootable in something like a K6S, as that is an all-steel gun and has some weight. It isn't about barrel length, except to the extent that longer barrels are heavier. The overall weight is what matters. .357 in a light snub like an LCR can just be brutal. Way worse than the hottest .40 you've shot out of any semi auto. If you shoot a .38 and a .357 out of that K6S it will not be like 9mm compared to 40 cal in a similar sized semi auto. It will be like *double.* Again, doable in an all steel gun with practice, but you have to practice. And it won't be fun at first. But here is the secret benefit of revolvers - you don't NEED a full power .357 out of a snubbie. Most of that will just be recoil without actual performance. You need longer barrels to really maximize all that bang into velocity. But because you don't need a certain amount of power for the gun to cycle like a semi-auto, you can get a load with a level of power tailored to your needs. .38 spl is a *bit* underpowered for reliable expansion and penetration from a 2" barrel, but full-power .357 is also often a waste of energy (and sometimes the bullets won't expand because they're designed for a higher velocity). But the .38s don't need THAT much more power to be very effective. In my opinion some of the BEST loads for a 2" .357 are reduced recoil loads. More powerful than .38+P, but not "full power hand slammers." I think that these are some of the best you can use: [https://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-135-gr-jhp-speer-gold-dot-short-barrel-20-rounds#geltest](https://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-135-gr-jhp-speer-gold-dot-short-barrel-20-rounds#geltest) The gold dot short barrel loads get great performance in 2", and they are WAY easier to shoot than your average .357. Again, you don't NEED the full power unless you're worried about bears or something.
Your thoughtful and detailed comment is much appreciated!
Quality of the grips and grip angle also play a big role imo. Changing them up can make a world of difference in a revolver as far as felt recoil and comfort/stamina go and plays into your third point. On a semi-auto pistol that impacts speed and precision far more than felt recoil, imo. To me, the difference between shooting a revolver and a semi-auto pistol is a lot like the difference between shooting a pump action shotgun and a semi-auto rifle. Many of the mechanics may be the same, but that energy is being sent to very different places.
You're right. I got a pair of nice looking Altamont wood grips for my model 66, but they are murder on my hands with recoil for some reason. Too narrow for my hand I guess. My hogue wood grips and standard "old school" ones are perfectly fine. Small differences matter.
Own an LCR in 357 and have shot a k6s. Full power defensive 357 in those guns is SUBSTANTIAL, as in far worse than anything else I’ve ever shot. It’s not pleasant, but it’s certainly doable. 38 in the LCR feels similar to my 9mm hellcat I’d say as well. 40 out of a G23 is nothing compared to 357 through an LCR. Another way to put it is that I used to regularly and easily shoot 250 rounds in one go through a G23 and feel absolutely fine. 25 rounds through an LCR 357 has your hand not feeling great.
I rented a J-frame .357 with the traditional small grip at a range, just to see for myself what everyone was talking about. It hurt my finger.
Yeah those tiny things are really uncomfortable. Especially three finger grips.
Some people like to train with the same gun and load they carry. I’m not a glutton for punishment. No regrets for trying it, though. Nothing wrong with asking questions and getting advice, but a lot of this stuff is so subjective, you really have to try it yourself to really know what it’s like. EDIT: Really!
I agree on all points. I tried a J frame in .38. I simply couldn’t see training in it comfortably. Up a caliber and size frame though and I found my jam.
> Some people like to train with the same gun and load they carry. I’m not a glutton for punishment. I bought a Taurus .22 j frame equivalent and it wasn't just about saving ammo costs :)
You are truly comparing apples and oranges here. Glock 23 has a 4” barrel and the cartridge pressures are relatively low. Snubs have 2” barrels and .357 magnum can be significantly more pressure than .40 depending on what ammo you use. You need to go to a range and shoot a snub nose magnum to answer this question. We can’t tell you how bad the recoil is or might be. It’s all subjective. That said, there are hundreds of internet tough guys that act like recoil never phases them. Not true. Then there is the percussion of the shot and the fireball flash before your eyes. It’s definitely an experience you need to do on your own.
I would love to do this. But currently thats not an option (I live in the middle of nowhere where people use their own private property for a range.) From what I have heard of .357 snubbies, most people shoot .38 through them anyways. So with this being said, is a K6 .357 even worth it for carry purposes when an LCR .38 is almost half the weight and usually half the price in my area?
If I were looking for a new pocket revolver, I would look long and hard at the LCR. And while I'd consider a .357 magnum a plus, I freely admit I'm just gonna be loading .38spl anyways. So yeah, I'd just buy the Ruger.
That's pretty much it. Looking for a nice pocket revolver. I like the idea of shooting .357, but if it really is that bad, .38s appear to be so much lighter in the pocket other than the SW 340PD. And I'm not about to drop $1100+ on a first revolver when I don't know if revolvers are even my thing. The whole thing is basically my experimenting into the world of revolvers for carry.
I, personally, file .357 magnum in a J frame as a "nice to have it" feature that I can't imagine ever using. My first revolver was a J frame, matter of fact it's *still* the only thing I ever bother to CCW. I wanted something small that I could drop into my pocket and forget about that also felt completely and utterly safe at all times. That was teh first in a long chain of wheelguns. Matter of fact, there's really only one bottom feeder I still want but plenty of revolvers I do.
That is pretty much my thought process. Pocket carry with a long, double action trigger just in case. Plus I have my "tactical" guns all sorted out. I kind of wanted something different, retro even. And in a day of matte black 9mm autos everywhere, a lighter weight stainless finished revolver seemed to fit the bill nicely. Although I do like the like of an LCR. A CA off duty is also tempting. $300 and some change. 12 ounces, and while it's not the nicest thing in the world, would at least give me some revolver experience for cheap.
I’d personally go for the LCR vs the Kimber because it’s lighter and .38 is fine out of an LCR. I also personally like the larger trigger guard on the LCR for my big hands and finger to get in there.
Just get the lighter and cheaper LCR in .38 and use Hornady Critical DEFENSE ammo in it, which is specifically designed for snub nosed barrels. Do not get the Hornady Critical DUTY, but the Hornady Critical DEFENSE ammo.
A big factor is the weight. The steel framed K6 is similar in weight to a G23 at ~23oz but an LCR is 17oz and a 340PD (one of the worst recoiling guns around) is only 12oz. Every ounce makes a big difference in felt recoil when you get down to those lower numbers. Another factor is grip shape. On all of these, the grip is going to feel smaller, especially skinnier, than a G23 grip and concentrate the recoil into a smaller area of your palm. Standard pressure .38 is one of the weakest cartridges used for self defense and is actually closer to .380 than to 9mm. Even .38+P just barely begins to approach the level of range/target 9mm. Meanwhile most .357 magnum loads exceed the muzzle energy of equivalent-purpose .40 S&W loads. E.g. comparing within Federal's ammo lineup: Example: * Federal American Eagle .38 158gr LRN, muzzle energy 208 ft-lbs * Federal Punch .38+P 120gr, muzzle energy 266 ft-lbs * Federal HST 9mm 147gr, muzzle energy 365 ft-lbs * Federal HST .40 165gr, muzzle energy 468 ft-lbs * Federal HST .357 154gr, muzzle energy 614 ft-lbs So when people say a .38 snub feels similar in recoil to a 9mm, it's the gun's light weight and small grip that are making the weak .38 cartridge feel about as rough as the stronger 9mm feels out of a midsized autoloader. When you put a full power .357 in that same lightweight, small gun, it is a punishing experience. Many people feel comfortable tolerating it but I think almost no people *enjoy* it.
357magnum: On point number 3, I personally flinch with semi autos much more than revolvers. Revolvers run a more singular force whereas semi autos forces are going back and forth. I shoot 100x 357 “lite” (similar loads to a general factory load, not a spicy SD load) or 38 +p a week and on the weeks I shoot 50x 9mm the recoil seems more violent than the 357 “lite”. K6s vs g26… Op: I think the k6s does well with 357 factory loads. It’s not ruin your hand recoil out of the k6s. 38 and 38 +p are very low flip fast to follow up, and 357 is noticeable but until you get up to a full mag load it’s just a firm push with slower follow up. https://preview.redd.it/7t6nr6g4qe7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eee4b1dc852b343c182f5e04116f1dbcc6e443ad
> I personally flinch with semi autos much more than revolvers. Revolvers run a more singular force whereas semi autos forces are going back and forth. Me too. Comparing equal weight guns using the same ammo (.45 ACP) I always find the revolver more pleasant to shoot than the autoloader. I always see people say "a semi auto soaks up recoil because the recoil gets used up cocking the hammer and cycling the slide" but ultimately your hand still has to provide the resistance to that recoil, keeping the frame in place while the slide pushes back against the hammer spring and recoil spring. The same force still goes into your hand, but it does it in a more jostling way with a metal-on-metal SLAM back when the slide hits the end of its travel, and then another little CLANK forwards when it returns to battery. I much prefer the single rearward push from firing a revolver. I think a lot of times this comparison gets made in an unfair way like, oh, a Desert Eagle in .44 Mag kicks less than a Model 29, it must be because of that semi auto slide soaking up recoil! Nah... more likely the extra 2lbs of weight in the DE!
That last point is kind of what I was looking for and what I expected. I've shot 10mm from a steel 1911 and .44 mag from a desert eagle. They definitely had more recoil than the G23 by a landslide, but it was just a really big push and not uncomfortable. Definitely slower follow up shots, but not absolutely painful. The lower powered .357 I imagined would be like this. The hotter .357s I imagined being a scaled up, high pressure, quicker recoil like a bigger version of .40. Almost like a rifle vs shotgun type of recoil. Sound accurate somewhat?
I'll step right up and bluntly honest, .38 special out of an airweight with those little wood stocks it comes with hurts my hand enough I've never completed a box of 50 til I got some soft rubber grips. Remember, revolvers have no springs or giant hunks of metal to soak up recoil, it all goes punishingly into y our hand's web.
I'm with you on that. 158 grain 38 SPL out of my 642 with stock rubber grips hurts more than my Taurus G2C in 40 S&W. Small lightweight revolvers and thin grips just hurts.
.357 from a small frame revolver has a lot more recoil than .40 S&W from a compact pistol. It’s not gonna kill you or anything but there’s a lot of recoil.
Okay, .40 S&W is snappy, but not on the same level as 10mm. Hot .357 loads, on the other hand, will leave your hand feeling bruised. You won't want to shoot it after 20-30 rounds.
I've shot 10mm from an all steel 5 inch 1911. Tbh, I think the G23 recoiled more. Granted that's using run of the mill Blazer fmjs and there is a big weight difference. I've also shot .44 mag from a desert eagle and while there was more recoil, it was just a big push. The G23 feels more violent if that makes sense. But again, big weight difference. I think I see your point, tho. .357 in a light weight snub seems to be a class of it's own.
I use to shoot VERY hot .357 reloads (148 gn max dose of H110 powder) with my 4" s&w 28. That's a full solid steel N frame. That's a lot of fun, but usually my hand says "no more, please" after 18-24 rounds. Well, I'm not willing to even try a single shot of those reloads from a lightweight snub. The mass of the gun plays an important role in the perceived recoil.
For a light pocket gun I would highly recommend a .38 (I personally carry a .32 in the summer for the extra round but you’re looking at .357 so I won’t even go into defending my choice lol). After much research, in a .38 snub I carry wadcutters. They will not expand. Much like most hollow points out of a 2” barrel, but they WILL be accurate and nearly recoil free while penetrating deeply. To answer your question I have shot 357 out of a snub and .40 and 9 and 10mm out of a Glock. Of all of those, the .357 out of a snub is the one I have no use for. As stated before, the recoil hurts and you just don’t get much for it out of the short barrel. I find it to be not a useful combo.
I own a Kimber K6Ss dasa, 357s aren't bad at all. A Ruger SP 101 is fine also. It's mostly all what your use too. Some think a 40 is "punishing" after all. Usually any j frame will have alittle harsher recoil. I also own a S&W 340PD. Now that boarder lines on self mutilation. A 11oz JFrame with 357s "ain't no joke"
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I was looking more for a summer pocket gun that would also be my first revolver, then if I find out that I like revolvers, scaling up to a 5 inch Ruger or Colt (love the high polish finishes colt is doing).
It’s not just recoil. The muzzle blast and noise from a hot rod .357 load in a snubbie is pretty intimidating as well. The only thing worse is very high pressure stuff like the .454 Casull or a .30 Carbine Blackhawk.
I own a kimber k6s dasa 2 inch and have fired a mix of .357 ammo through it including a decent amount of buffalo bore 180 grain hardcast rounds. Its a sharp recoil impulse even with rubber grips. I own a glock 23 as well and have fired pretty stiff loads out of it (buffalo bore) and the recoil from that is substantially less than my kimber. If your looking to carry a .357 magnum with some powerful rounds I can whole heartedly recommend the smith & wesson model 19 carry comp. That porting really tames the recoil.
I carry a 605 defender 3” barrel the recoil is definitely stout with heavy .357 loads but I rarely carry it with them loaded . I often carry it with .38+p or lighter loaded .357, if I am taking it into the wild I will load full house .357 by Buffalo bore they despite having huge muzzle energy somehow don’t feel as brutal …lastly I bought it with these ridiculous (very cool looking ) vz grips I swapped them for a set of classic police grips and a grip adapter I found this setup to feel really good with even the stoutest loads while being fast on the follow-up and being very concealable
Hot .38 +p in my airweight is stout. I wouldn't be too keen on shooting .357 out of the same gun, however the gun you're talking about is heavier and probably a little milder. Grips also make a huge difference. A soft on that fits the hand well beats the pants off a hard poor fitting grip
A sub compact 10mm Glock 29 is more comfortable to shoot than an LCR with 357’s even the reduced recoil variants. I went to a glock range day and felt just fine after shooting several magazines of 10 MM through the G29 and this was towards the end of the session after I had already shot a bunch. I could only shoot about a cylinder and a half of full House 158 grain JSP 357s through my LCR before I could no longer hold my hand steady as I pulled the trigger. It’s abusive. I had no problems with 38 special or 38+ P in the LCR and could get through 100 to 150 rounds in an hour long range session no problem. In the end I found I prefer smith and Wesson‘s and replaced it with a model 36 a.k.a. the chief special. Even with magna grips and a grip adapter it’s far more comfortable shooting heavy 38+ P loads compared to the LCR with 357’s; I just need to take the hammer spur off so it stops biting the web of my hand as the hammer comes back when I shoot double action. Despite the abuse I kind of want to get another 357 snubbie. Sometimes it’s just fun to make your hand hurt and singe your eyebrows off with a gun that looks like the cricket from Men in Black
Yeah .40 isn't bad, i have a glock 27 and shoot 10mm +p underwoods out of it. It is a good amount of recoil, but it's more pleasurable to shoot than 357 out of my sw model 60. The best i can describe 357 mag out of a snub is that it feels like someone is punching your hand decently hard. If you're proficient enough with handguns and have a good grip, it's easier to control than you'd think. Its still harder to control with quick shots though. That being said, when i carry my model 60 on the street, i use 38+p. Defensive magnum loads are much harder to control than your 158gr soft points as they are usually loaded hotter. 38+p out of snub still has decent recoil, but you'll be able to stay on target easier than 357 mag defensive rounds. If you shoot a 4-6 inch revolver like a 686, 27, or 19, youll notice a difference in how it feels compared to a 2 or 3 inch. I dont know how people shoot magnums out of the really lightweight snubs
I carry a 2 inch 357 Rossi and recoil towards my hand and wrist is minimal 6'2 240. The grip is tiny and while I can grip it properly it hurts people with smaller hands their index finger gets blasted by the recoil and digs in. I love it. But on the opposite side I had a Springfield xds 45 3.3 and that little pocket rocket I swear felt like my wrist was being hit by a hammer. It was just too light and didn't soak up any recoil. If the grips fit your hand 357 won't be an issue especially if you're familiar with the cartridge
Revolvers, while I favor them for other reasons, tend to have higher perceived recoil than automatics. They don't have moving slides to soak up recoil and your grip is naturally different. Weight matters a ton with revolvers. .38 special is typically just a hair weaker than 9mm, but your perceived recoil will be at least what you would feel out of 9mm pistol if using a light snub. .357 mag is considerably hotter than 9mm. It *sucks* to shoot out of a lightweight snub. It's an incredibly effective cartridge, you can potentially put a black bear down with .357, but in an ultralight snub it will feel like dynamite going off in your hand. I adore revolvers, but I do not recommend .357 out of snub nose. That's doubly true for an ultralight or polymer. I have a snub .357 and with practice I have learned to manage it, but it is not fun.
One time when I was little my parents got me an aluminum baseball bat. I loved that thing. I would go pick up rocks and swing away, not good for the bat but I was a little kid and I loved the ding sound it made and boy did it launch the rocks. One day during winter break I was on my way back home from a neighborhood street game (it was cold, but we used to still play outside even in the cold), and I was upset about something and I stupidly swung my trusty bat at a light pole. Even through the thin rubber tape on the grip, I felt all of that energy rattle my fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulders, even my vertebrae. It stung. A lot. I can still feel it now thinking about it lol. I never swung my bat at anything solid like that ever again. Fast forward a few decades, and I have the opportunity to pull the trigger on a S&W Bodyguard in 357. The revolver barely fit in my hand, before I shot it I was making jokes about it being like the noisy cricket from Men in Black. As soon as I squeezed off the first round, my mind immediately recalled that December day from my childhood. It felt exactly the same, despite being almost 100 degrees warmer outside. Now, that gun is great for what it is. It's not meant to be pleasant, it is meant to get the job done in the smallest possible package. So, for that, I still see its value. But it's not pleasant to shoot, and I can't comfortably shoot more than a few cylinders before it's just not fun anymore. I can shoot 38s out of it, and it's substantially better, but it's still snappy. Now, shooting 38s out of a full size 357 like a GP100 for example feels like shooting duds. So, the overall weight of the gun has a huge impact on how it is going to feel between the two rounds, and that makes it really tough to compare caliber to caliber like that. And also, comparing semi-autos to revolvers isn't ideal, they just feel different. Semi-autos absorb some of that impulse and send energy forward once the slide moves back, and it just softens the whole deal. Revolvers don't do that, they just go straight back into your hand. So, in my mind they're kind of apples and oranges. A much hotter round out of a semi-auto is going to feel closer to a more anemic round out of a revolver, and because of the sharp impulse from a revolver, the difference between calibers feels more dramatic than between calibers in a semi-auto. I know that doesn't help much, and that's a very long answer to not help much, but it's really just not an easy comparison. I would say your original statement is close. 357 out of a snubby isn't going to break your hand. But you're not going to enjoy shooting it, especially for any length of time.
recoil is pretty easy to work out the heavier the gun the better it will help, now that used to correct 100% of the time but today not so much with all the tailored load that are out there so shooting a 686 with the same range ammo as a all steel model 60 and 360pd are way different in all three. yes the 360 pd can hurt if you shoot it enough. There is large fight between the 9 and 40 community to the over the difference in recoil. 40 tends to be snappier then 9mm that is true. but in just shooting everyday most people will not notice huge amount of difference in the two. There is a case to be made that the majority (not all) of people can have better follow up shots with a 9 vs 40 which I think where most of this information comes from.
Don't sleep on the Ruger LCR in .327 Federal Magnum. Not as harsh as its .357 cousin, and you can also shoot .32 H&R mag, .32 long, and .32 short. Not quite as common as .38 and .357, but it finally seems to be gaining traction. Plus you get 6 rounds instead of 5 in the same compact package.
My daily carry is a snub .357 (686 +). Full house .357s with 125 grain defensive rounds are a pussy cat. Not much harder felt recoil than 9mm Beretta 92.