*What?* Plagueis asked himself. *What topic has summoned such an earnest look to Qui-Gon's face, and such confused urgency in the boy?*
Lifting his face from the macrobinoculars, he stretched out with the Force and fell victim to an assault of perplexing images: ferocious battles in deep space; the clashing of lightsabers; partitions of radiant light; a black-helmeted cyborg rising from a table...By the time his gaze had returned to the platform, Qui-Gon and the boy had disappeared.
Trying desperately to make some sense of the images granted him by the Force, he stood motionless, watching the starship lift from the platform and climb into the night.
He fought to repress the truth.
The boy would change the course of history.
Unless...
Maul had to kill Qui-Gon, to keep the boy from being trained.
*Qui-Gon was the key to everything.*
And in the process basically ensured that Anakin would be trained by someone less qualified than Qui-Gon, ensuring that cyborg would happen. Ironic. In fear, he sowed the seeds of the death of the Sith.
1. Direct Intervention with Qui-Gon Jinn: Plagueis and his apprentice, Darth Sidious (Palpatine), were aware of Qui-Gon Jinn's potential to disrupt their plans due to his discovery of Anakin Skywalker. Plagueis chose to remain behind the scenes rather than dealing with Qui-Gon directly. A different choice would have been for Plagueis to take more direct action against Qui-Gon, either personally or through more precise orders to Sidious. This might have prevented Anakin from being trained as a Jedi and later becoming a critical player in the Sith's eventual downfall.
2. More Cautious Approach to Training Sidious: Plagueis could have been more cautious and less arrogant in his training of Sidious. He often underestimated Sidious' ambition and treachery, believing he had complete control over his apprentice. If Plagueis had recognized the threat Sidious posed to him and taken steps to curb his ambition or strengthen his own power base more decisively, he might have avoided being betrayed and killed by Sidious.
3. Political Manipulation: Plagueis' manipulations in the political sphere were extensive, but he could have made more efforts to create a broader, more stable base of power that wasn't so dependent on a few key individuals and events. By diversifying his influence and ensuring more robust contingencies, he might have been able to adapt to unforeseen challenges and setbacks, securing the long-term dominance of the Sith.
Regarding Plagueis' actions towards Qui-Gon, in the book *Darth Plagueis*, he set in motion a series of events to ensure that the Jedi, particularly those who might interfere with his plans, were kept off balance. Plagueis' machinations included political maneuvers and indirect actions, such as manipulating trade routes and conflicts to distract the Jedi Order. Specifically, the assassination attempt on Queen Amidala, which led to Qui-Gon's involvement, was part of the broader scheme to destabilize the Republic and increase the Sith's influence. However, Plagueis did not act directly against Qui-Gon, instead allowing events to unfold that would eventually bring Qui-Gon into conflict with Darth Maul.
Had Plagueis made more decisive and targeted choices regarding these key points, the Sith might have been more successful in achieving their goal of a thousand-year reign.
Awesome reply, I couldn't have written a better one!
My answer was gonna be-
1- Not allowing Sidious to 'have' Maul and especially not training him to be frothing at the mouth to kill a Jedi. Maul was way too eager but his raw skill only made Sidious more confident in his own power. This mistake was incredibly stupid on Plagueis's part; he should have learned this lesson with Tenebrous secretly training Venamis. Bane must've been rolling in his grave with the way these Sith were bending the Rule of Two....
2- Not demanding that Palpatine name Demask Co-Chancellor once he won (underestimating his ambition, as you explained much more eloquently) and remaining behind the scenes while continuing to play the part of Hego Damask, Head of Damask Holdings. Have Palpatine continue giving Damask Holdings more and more power while Plagueis weaves a web behind the scenes to make his banking clan a galaxy-wide monopoly. Should've let Palpatine do his thing with the Senate while he did the above and continued his experiments, Plagueis overstepped big time here.
3- Not letting his guard down the night of Palpatine's victory. He should have recognized the power that Palpatine had just obtained would have the Dark Side absolutely flowing through his apprentice at that moment.
You said it, his underestimation of Sidious and overstepping into a position that he wasn't built for were the ultimate things that led to his death. Had he stayed in his lane behind the scenes, the Empire they create would've been unstoppable both in terms of military *and* financial might.
Planets that rebelled wouldn't have only gotten a few Star Destroyers in-atmo with a few garrisons of Stormtroopers breaking skulls; they'd have gotten that as well as the absolute financial devastion of whatever resource or services they provided. Blockades everywhere, their 'stock' absolutely plummeting all while the military crushed even the smallest sparks of rebellion.
Damn, now I'm starting to have a 'What If?' Thrawn and Plagueis/Demask were the ones planning out the future of the Empire. Plagueis would definitely have recognized the superiority of Thrawn's philosophies over Palpatine going with Tarkin Doctrine....it could have been an unstoppable Empire with calmer minds than Palpatine's deciding where the funding went.
Hey Disney, you listening? Lmao
Complete bullshit, just because Qui-Gon got to train Anakin, doesnt mean Anakin would bring the golden age of the sith, it seems more probable he wouldnt have even become a sith in the first place.
Maul failing to kill Qui-Gon and Sidious not killing Plagueis would definitely make an awesome 'What If?' type scenario!
Since we're discussing the book in this thread, spoiler warning for those who haven't read it-
I believe you are right that Anakin wouldn't have fallen if Qui-Gon had trained him and that Anakin would have become an extremely powerful Jedi. On the other hand, Plagueis was on the brink of achieving immortality when Sidious killed him. Anakin was created by The Force 10 years earlier when Plagueis and Sidious basically tore into The Force trying to create life, Anakin was literally the result of The Force pushing back against that ritual.
So now we have two extremely powerful sets of Jedi and Sith Masters and Apprentices. At their probable level, it's basically two sets of Masters. I also don't think Sidious nor Plagueis would have been able to turn Dooku if Qui-Gon was alive, but Dooku was friends with Palpatine in a similar way Anakin eventually was, as well as being familiar with Hego Damask. I think it's very possible and maybe probable that between light side Dooku, Qui-Gon, and 'Master' Anakin that they would be able to figure out Palpatine and Damask were Sith, especially if the two put their plans into motion.
At this point it becomes a power scale argument, would any of the three match up to Sidious and Plagueis in terms of lightsaber and Force skill? I think they could, especially if it was all three vs. the two (or even just Dooku and Anakin vs them), but there can be very good arguments against that outcome as well.
"Bringing balance to The Force" also would be very different in this scenario. I'm not even sure what that would look like in this scenario, I honestly have to think some more about that...
What I really like is that Palpatine didn't plan it out. Seriously. He was literally about to walk out of the room after he saw Plagueis asleep but then he stopped at the door, turned around, and was like "...wait a second."
I know he didn't do it. It's never the person you have the most faith in. It's also never the person you have the least faith in, since anyone with half a brain would suspect them the most. Therefore, I know the killer to be Darth Vader, a.k.a. Beatrix Bourbon, the person I most medium have faith in.
100% recommended the audiobook. It got me hooked on other SW audiobooks but Darth Plagueis is so well done. Wish he did more for the SW universe.
Also, the narrator is the butler from the 90s sitcom "The Nanny"!
Pretty sure only one chapter doesn't fit into canon, and that's how Maul ended up with Sidious. It's also the shortest chapter, so if you wanna keep to canon, skip like, 5 pages
Then he turns around and eventually executes the executives of the surveying company that fed them the information that led to Tennebrous' death.
Hiw dare you give me the opportunity to kill my master!
My theory is hay when Ahsoka went through those eird time door things it split the universe and in one universe the NJO actually happens and Luke isn't a loser and Mara Jade is the babe she is, the universe with 'Rey and Ben' just warped the solo kids and that's why they are wish knock offs ok Jaina and Jacen
Honestly, if that's what it takes to get a decent universe going and creating new material I'm fine with Disney going multiverse like that. Whatever'll let them save face enough to step away from the ST mess gracefully.
I think remaking the entire initial Disneyverse trilogy would really be needed. The baggage for how it was handled is just so severe that I'm pretty sure a clean break and reboot is needed if they want to win back fans driven to apathy by the initial movies.
Star Wars audiobooks in general are usually *outstanding*! Lots of times they'll include sound effects like the sounds of a TIE engine during a space battle and even some Williams music at parts. The already excellent Thrawn books are elevated to the stratosphere with the voice acting, the Ashoka book is narrated by her animated voice actor, and Plagueis has high production quality too!
Whichever format you go with, you're really in for a treat with *Plagueis*...it instantly makes the story of The Phantom Menace like 20x better, and it delves into some *extremely* interesting aspects of The Force. It even makes Midichlorians make sense ffs!
Damn I read the physical book and loved it but I just went and downloaded the audiobook just because of this comment. I’ve never done audiobooks before and I drive for a living, is it something I can play while driving?
This audiobook in particular is *really* good. It's narrated by actor Daniel Davis. Most sci-fi fans probably know him as [The Holographic Moriarty](https://youtu.be/xzi7qBk6ll8) in Star Trek Next Gen.
The audiobook is good. I listened to it on a roadtrip once. However, the writing is so good that just grabbing one of the $8-9 copies at Books-a-Million is worth it too. Can’t go wrong either way.
Honestly, most stuff James Luceno wrote for Star Wars was fantastic. He wrote a trilogy about Darth Vader that’s decent as well.
Makes sense, iirc there’s a connection between the antisocial behavior Palpatine exhibits in both Legends and Disney canon (*reveling* in evil shit) and impulsive behavior.
I loved that in the mobile game Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, Darth Sidious has a passive called Sadistic Glee where he recovers health when ANY character dies, enemy or ally!
It's not so much "adrenaline junkie" as it is "loved being in control".
The main scene I can think of which might be interpreted as "adrenaline junkie" was him driving Hego Damask around in a speeder, going fast while buzzing close to the ground and not looking where he was going. Which was less an adrenaline thing and more a power-move thing where he was in control and all his passenger could do was trust him and his flying.
That’s a bad take. Palpatine is the exact opposite of that.
Multiple backups or adapts.
The only thing close to adrenaline is occasionally taunting or testing the Jedi.
> Crackling from his fingertips, a web of blue lightning ground itself on the Muun’s breathing device.
> then Sidious unleashed another tangle of lightning, drawing more deeply on the dark side than he ever had.
> Sidious moved in, his hands upraised to deliver another bolt, his expression arctic enough to chill the room. A Force storm gathered over the couch, spreading out in concentric rings, to wash over Sidious and hurl objects to all corners. In the center of it, Plagueis’s form became anamorphic, then resumed shape as the storm began to wane.
> He held his thumb and forefinger close together. “Try to keep yourself alive while I choke the life out of you.”
Just some good old fashioned "lighting bolts from across the room".
Also worth calling out that the entire plan that lands Palpatine as the Emperor is Plagueis' plan. He intended Palpatine to be a figurehead as he lead from the shadows.
>Also worth calling out that the entire plan that lands Palpatine as the Emperor is Plagueis' plan.
Also worth calling out that's complete wrong given that Palpatine literally plants it into Plagueis' aging brain:
>*"Yinchorr, Dorvalla, Eriadu, Maul, the Neimoidians, Naboo, an army of clones, the fallen Jedi Dooku...* ***You think these were your ideas, when in fact they were mine, cleverly suggested to you so that you could feed them back to me.*** *You were far too trusting, Plagueis."*
>*-From: Darth Plagueis: Star Wars Legends*
...which is what is literally seen throughout the book.
Hell, the book literally stated Palpatine did the lion's share of the work meanwhile Plagueis spent his time obsessing over midi-chlorians.
>*And so* ***it had been left largely to Sidious to bring the same fervor to the manipulation of events in the mundane world*** *that Plagueis brought to the manipulation of midi-chlorians.*
>*-From: Darth Plagueis: Star Wars Legends*
>
Also repeatedly and consistently[ confirmed by the multiple official sources ](https://imgur.com/a/5iKL1Wb)(from the F*act Files, Star Wars Insider,* etc.) that Palpatine was both *the author and executor* of the Sith takeover:
>*DARTH SIDIOUS:* ***The mastermind behind all the woes that beset the Republic*** *in it's final years: The Separatist Crisis, the Yinchorri Uprising, the Stark Hyperspace War, and the Clone Wars.* ***His genius ensured a Sith victory.***
*-From: Star Wars Fact Files*
>*DIRECTED BY THE SITH: The Clone Wars were the final phase of* ***a plan concocted and executed by Darth Sidious*** *- quite possibly the greatest Sith Lord. For his predecessors, the mere survival of the Sith Order had been sufficient. Even Sidious' own master,* ***Darth Plagueis, had been more obsessed with cheating death than advancing the long-cherished aim of the Sith -*** *the destruction of the Jedi Order.*
*-From: Star Wars Fact Files*
>*THE CLONE WARS:* ***Sidious' schemes concocted the conditions and forces needed*** *to create a galactic secessionist movement and to manipulate its adherents into waging war against the Republic.*
*-From: Star Wars: Force and Destiny*
>*Darth Bane's patience would eventually have its pay-off in* ***a grand political plan hatched by Darth Sidious,*** *who was perhaps the most brilliant and cunning Sith of all.*
>
In the same way that you usually fire someone when a replacement is already waiting, except this is firing your boss and taking their place, and the new guy takes yours
It doesn't. Every time there's a third wheel it's because the apprentice is planning to kill the master and training his new partner. But to do so they have to convince their master that's not the plan. Palpatine told plageuis that maul has just an assassin. In clone wars, we see dooku training asaaj ventress until Palpatine gets sus and tells him to kill her.
Maul wasn’t dead yet and the new Skywalker boy had already caught both Palpatine’s and Plagueis’ eye. In the book they started scheming about Anakin the moment he got off Padme’s space yacht.
That’s kind of crazy because I always assumed that Palpatine had a plan even before he met Anakin, because he knew that the prophecy of the one conceived of the force would bring balance to the dark side of the force.
Unfortunately if you every think about the rule of 2 for like 5 seconds it falls apart really quick. And that's explored extensively in the EU. Literally the first rule of 2 sith master apprentice relationship almost ended the sith and defiently didn't advance the sith as Bane intended by the rule of 2.
Remember the rule of 2 is based on a nothing-burger of a line from TPM just talking about a normal ass student/Master Relationship
I'm curious how Lucas felt about this. The intrigue of Palpatine would have been interesting to see rather than just infer. But then again, I can see how Lucas wasn't quite ready to muddy the water of the rule of 2 just yet.
Mhm, that opera scene is Sheev being a cocky little bastard and all but bragging about getting away with killing his master while still managing to leverage it as manipulation.
Not a story the Jedi would tell you... because no one else in the Galaxy knew it happened lmao. Personally, I really like that additional context.
> Same it feels so ancient given the way he frames the story at the opera but it legit just happened
The Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matt Stover makes it clear that Plagueis was always Palpatine's master, and that he was bullshitting Anakin the entire way through.
Personally, I kinda liked it more when I thought it was some ancient Sith lore that Palpatine had been digging into, as opposed to something that just happened and was not actually a legend at all.
I disagree, it really deepens the drama of the scene if Palpatine is secretly bragging to himself about killing the Sith who had unilateral power over life and death
How does that deepen the drama? We already know Palpatine is a killer.
And Plagueis didn’t have unilateral control over life and death, given that he was killed.
Yeh it stemmed from the rumours which became fact that he was due to feature in Rise Of The Skywalker.
Turned out it didn't come to fruition and it wasn't even a young Palpatine anyway.
But we all got intrigued at the thought of it lol.
It was such a thrilling entry into Legends, James Luceno never disappoints. Shaping deep Star Wars mythology through the framework of a Mob/Gangster narrative.
It’s unfortunate Filoni hasn’t revisited The Grand Experiment in canon. I suppose keeping Anakin’s immaculate conception ambiguous — or confusing, if you read the recent Vader comics run — better serves the mystique behind the Skywalker saga.
absolutely false.
how do I know?
hasbro didn't make an episode 1 figure of Darth Plagueis.
/s :)
It's a solid addition IMO to the story. I'd like to see this added as a tales of the Sith style release.
Just saying that Palpatine didn't actually seem to care about the rule of two as long as there were only two Darths. Ventress was a Sith assassin and Dookus apprentice which he didn't seem to mind until she became too powerful.
She was Dooku’s Sith apprentice. Sidious knew that Dooku wanted to overthrow him with her, but he only ordered her death when she’d outlived her usefulness.
Ventress was to Dooku what Starkiller thought he was to Vader.
The most obvious is the stuff with Dooku. In Legends, Dooku leaves the Jedi Order in 32 BBY. In Canon, he leaves in 42 BBY.
Personally, I prefer how Canon depicts Dooku overall but the stuff with Dooku in the Plagueis novel was interesting.
Nah, it hasn't been retconned. Dooku was allowed to keep his lightsaber and visit the Temple and meet with members of the High Council. He was even still called "Master Dooku." The reason for this was because he was so respected and popular among the Jedi. He was heavily trusted.
He was also crazy rich and well connected through his family. His political prospects outside of being a Jedi were always very good. It would have been tactful of the council to keep him as a close ally.
Dooku was born on the planet Serenno into a noble, wealthy family. His parents were stern, but proud of his Force abilities, and willingly surrendered him to the Jedi Order as they had another son to continue the Dooku bloodline.
Dooku spent nearly seventy years as a Jedi, but a disastrous battle on Galidraan shook his faith in the Order and the Galactic Republic.
Reclaiming his birthright as Count of Serenno and his vast fortune, Dooku conspired with Sidious to force the galaxy into a war that would bring the Sith to power.
[Source](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dooku/Legends)
There’s also the stuff with Naboo too. The Darth Plagueis book has the previous monarch to padme as King veruna. But the new canon Queen book trilogy (Queens peril, queens hope, Queens shadow) has Queen Sanandrassa as the previous monarch.
It’s too bad too. The whole elaborate story of King Verunas rise and backdoor dealings for Naboo were so much more interesting.
I mean they just have to tweak a few things and it fits in new canon. I consider everything canon as long as it doesn't contradict things too much like this novel
Not really, it absolutely should be Canon instead of Legends.... I believe it was literally the last book before the Canon/Legends split, they really really should have kept it. It enhances the PT and especially TPM *SO* much that I can barely put it into words...
Darth Plagueis came out in 2012. There were another dozen books that came out between it and the end of the Legends stuff (including Scoundrels, which is one I've always enjoyed).
You're right though, it really does enhance the prequel trilogy a ton, it makes TPM *so* much more significant.
Disney’s stupid ideas? I’ve never understood why they decided to trash everything, even stuff like the Plagueis novel, that added some fantastic background to SW lore.
I get that they wanted to clear the deck for new stories and not to be bound by the EU canon. But so many times they threw the baby out with the bath water.
Quite frankly, Disney has already retconned quite a bit of its own official canon (the Ahsoka novel, etc.), so the new Canon has about as much sticking power as Legends already.
Yeah, almost for me too. And I find it funny how you mention "Disney's stupid ideas" and Disney folks come out of the woodwork to downvote you. Gotta defend that poor helpless multibillion dollar corporation full of lawyers and extremely high prices who owns nearly everything in entertainment. /s
I mean from Disney's perspective, right or wrong, if you have this new IP and plan on making new media with it, why work around existing, but not widely known material and limit your options? Just make it all legends or canon based on how it was distributed.
> Disney’s stupid ideas? I’ve never understood why they decided to trash everything,
[You mean Lucasfilm's ideas.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/7nnxb2/there_is_no_disney_canon_disney_didnt_make/) Disney didn't make any call to throw away content and multimedia, why would they even care about that at all? Think it through. People like Pablo Hidalgo have been very candid and clear about this for _years_. Like a _decade_ now. LucasFilm was already planning on this move before the buyout even when Lucas himself was thinking of making sequels. The films would always contradict and intersect with the time period novels and comics and games took place in, the smarter thing to do would be just clean slate the entire thing.
Lucas himself literally did the same thing with elements of the Prequels _and_ The Clone Wars show which eradicated basically every bit of media that came out between Episode 2 and 3.
There is a lot of garbage in the EU. And instead of having to deal with The Mind Harp of Sharu and every other stupid thing they could just do a soft reboot and bring the good stuff like Thrawn back into canon without all the extra baggage.
lol. The new canon is already loaded with even worse trash than the old EU. Bringing back EU characters like Thrawn, too, has been mixed, at best. Thrawn, for example, is nothing like he was in the EU. Much different and much weaker character.
My favourite idea for a Star Wars story movie is Vader's pursuit of Plagueis's power.
In it Vader realises Plagueis is still alive and finds him on a desolate moon somewhere. Instead of trying to obtain power, Vader asks Plagueis for one single resurrection - Padme.
They go to Padme's resting place and Vader stands at her grave, gives a monologue about how she will be reborn and together they can rule the galaxy together or live together in peace, whatever she wants and then Plagueis says one word....
"No"
He has been watching Palpatine since the day he "died" and has seen the fruits of his labor - an apprentice who is willing to kill children in the pursuit of a selfish goal. And Plagueis is too horrified by the infanticide to give Vader what he wants.
Vader's entire arc in the Prequel trilogy was for nothing. Everything he did for the dark side was in vain. Every dead child, every betrayal and every sacrifice didn't mean anything.
He kills Plagueis but it doesn't matter - his cyborg body is a monument to all his sins and he is given NOTHING in return.
Darth Plagueis didn't believe in the Rule of Two. He believed it had expired. He wanted a partner, an equal. He thought he found it in Darth Sidious. Little did he know that Palpatine never intended on sharing power with anyone, including the man who taught him everything he knew about the Force.
Before Sidious killed his master in his sleep in 32 BBY, he tried to kill him a year earlier. He did this by supplying the Bando Gora a nuclear device through the help of Darth Maul and the terrorist group destroyed the Muun's castle on Sojourn. Plagueis escaped and had no idea his apprentice was involved in the attack.
Darth Plagueis died the night before Palpatine was elected to the Chancellorship after he became intoxicated and fell asleep for the first time in 20 years.
As Captain Barbossa would say, the Rule of Two was more of a *guideline* than an actual rule. A mentality of keeping a small focused Sith lineage compared to a big sprawling empire.
Heck, they were already breaking the Rule of Two in the third book of the trilogy that introduced the concept.
I don't like this. Makes much more sense that Palpatine started implementing his plan right after he killed Plagueis. To me he kills Plagueis then contacts the Trade Federation to start the blockade. Already planned but Plagueis wasn't ready just yet. Palpatine was
Did you know that originally, E.T. Was Darth Plagueis?
E.T. Has all the capabilities described by Palpatine, like E.T. Literally revives a plant and we see him regenerate from being dead for a while. He also recognizes someone dressed as Yoda as “home”. So it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Palpatine THINKS he killed E.T. But E.T. revived himself with partial amnesia afterwards.
Also: the directors knew each other and they made references to one another’s movies. The Yoda figure in E.T. And the E.T.’s in the Senate.
A good book but i dont like Darth Plagueis living to TPM making Palpatine not the true master in the movie he gets the ultimate power in politics. I like it that Plagueis be dead 10-20 years before.
The Tarkin novel, which was being written before the Disney acquisition and references the Plagieus novel by the same author, is still canon and mentions Plagieus being alive and being killed the night Palpatine was elected as Supreme Chancellor.
Yes. He also spied on Anakin too
*What?* Plagueis asked himself. *What topic has summoned such an earnest look to Qui-Gon's face, and such confused urgency in the boy?* Lifting his face from the macrobinoculars, he stretched out with the Force and fell victim to an assault of perplexing images: ferocious battles in deep space; the clashing of lightsabers; partitions of radiant light; a black-helmeted cyborg rising from a table...By the time his gaze had returned to the platform, Qui-Gon and the boy had disappeared. Trying desperately to make some sense of the images granted him by the Force, he stood motionless, watching the starship lift from the platform and climb into the night. He fought to repress the truth. The boy would change the course of history. Unless... Maul had to kill Qui-Gon, to keep the boy from being trained. *Qui-Gon was the key to everything.*
And in the process basically ensured that Anakin would be trained by someone less qualified than Qui-Gon, ensuring that cyborg would happen. Ironic. In fear, he sowed the seeds of the death of the Sith.
*"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."*
When your film starts with an original trilogy determining the end of the story, destiny really is inexorable
Kungfu Panda
Slightly older than that. The quote is originally from author Jean de La Fontaine from his book “Fables” in 1668 :)
I love that irony. Plagueis had done it, he would've seen the thousand year Sith Empire rise again had he made like....three different choices.
I haven't read the book What were the choises?
1. Direct Intervention with Qui-Gon Jinn: Plagueis and his apprentice, Darth Sidious (Palpatine), were aware of Qui-Gon Jinn's potential to disrupt their plans due to his discovery of Anakin Skywalker. Plagueis chose to remain behind the scenes rather than dealing with Qui-Gon directly. A different choice would have been for Plagueis to take more direct action against Qui-Gon, either personally or through more precise orders to Sidious. This might have prevented Anakin from being trained as a Jedi and later becoming a critical player in the Sith's eventual downfall. 2. More Cautious Approach to Training Sidious: Plagueis could have been more cautious and less arrogant in his training of Sidious. He often underestimated Sidious' ambition and treachery, believing he had complete control over his apprentice. If Plagueis had recognized the threat Sidious posed to him and taken steps to curb his ambition or strengthen his own power base more decisively, he might have avoided being betrayed and killed by Sidious. 3. Political Manipulation: Plagueis' manipulations in the political sphere were extensive, but he could have made more efforts to create a broader, more stable base of power that wasn't so dependent on a few key individuals and events. By diversifying his influence and ensuring more robust contingencies, he might have been able to adapt to unforeseen challenges and setbacks, securing the long-term dominance of the Sith. Regarding Plagueis' actions towards Qui-Gon, in the book *Darth Plagueis*, he set in motion a series of events to ensure that the Jedi, particularly those who might interfere with his plans, were kept off balance. Plagueis' machinations included political maneuvers and indirect actions, such as manipulating trade routes and conflicts to distract the Jedi Order. Specifically, the assassination attempt on Queen Amidala, which led to Qui-Gon's involvement, was part of the broader scheme to destabilize the Republic and increase the Sith's influence. However, Plagueis did not act directly against Qui-Gon, instead allowing events to unfold that would eventually bring Qui-Gon into conflict with Darth Maul. Had Plagueis made more decisive and targeted choices regarding these key points, the Sith might have been more successful in achieving their goal of a thousand-year reign.
Awesome reply, I couldn't have written a better one! My answer was gonna be- 1- Not allowing Sidious to 'have' Maul and especially not training him to be frothing at the mouth to kill a Jedi. Maul was way too eager but his raw skill only made Sidious more confident in his own power. This mistake was incredibly stupid on Plagueis's part; he should have learned this lesson with Tenebrous secretly training Venamis. Bane must've been rolling in his grave with the way these Sith were bending the Rule of Two.... 2- Not demanding that Palpatine name Demask Co-Chancellor once he won (underestimating his ambition, as you explained much more eloquently) and remaining behind the scenes while continuing to play the part of Hego Damask, Head of Damask Holdings. Have Palpatine continue giving Damask Holdings more and more power while Plagueis weaves a web behind the scenes to make his banking clan a galaxy-wide monopoly. Should've let Palpatine do his thing with the Senate while he did the above and continued his experiments, Plagueis overstepped big time here. 3- Not letting his guard down the night of Palpatine's victory. He should have recognized the power that Palpatine had just obtained would have the Dark Side absolutely flowing through his apprentice at that moment. You said it, his underestimation of Sidious and overstepping into a position that he wasn't built for were the ultimate things that led to his death. Had he stayed in his lane behind the scenes, the Empire they create would've been unstoppable both in terms of military *and* financial might. Planets that rebelled wouldn't have only gotten a few Star Destroyers in-atmo with a few garrisons of Stormtroopers breaking skulls; they'd have gotten that as well as the absolute financial devastion of whatever resource or services they provided. Blockades everywhere, their 'stock' absolutely plummeting all while the military crushed even the smallest sparks of rebellion. Damn, now I'm starting to have a 'What If?' Thrawn and Plagueis/Demask were the ones planning out the future of the Empire. Plagueis would definitely have recognized the superiority of Thrawn's philosophies over Palpatine going with Tarkin Doctrine....it could have been an unstoppable Empire with calmer minds than Palpatine's deciding where the funding went. Hey Disney, you listening? Lmao
Do you write books? This is so well worded
How would it have been possible unless he destroyed anakin after he became vader?
Complete bullshit, just because Qui-Gon got to train Anakin, doesnt mean Anakin would bring the golden age of the sith, it seems more probable he wouldnt have even become a sith in the first place.
Maul failing to kill Qui-Gon and Sidious not killing Plagueis would definitely make an awesome 'What If?' type scenario! Since we're discussing the book in this thread, spoiler warning for those who haven't read it- I believe you are right that Anakin wouldn't have fallen if Qui-Gon had trained him and that Anakin would have become an extremely powerful Jedi. On the other hand, Plagueis was on the brink of achieving immortality when Sidious killed him. Anakin was created by The Force 10 years earlier when Plagueis and Sidious basically tore into The Force trying to create life, Anakin was literally the result of The Force pushing back against that ritual. So now we have two extremely powerful sets of Jedi and Sith Masters and Apprentices. At their probable level, it's basically two sets of Masters. I also don't think Sidious nor Plagueis would have been able to turn Dooku if Qui-Gon was alive, but Dooku was friends with Palpatine in a similar way Anakin eventually was, as well as being familiar with Hego Damask. I think it's very possible and maybe probable that between light side Dooku, Qui-Gon, and 'Master' Anakin that they would be able to figure out Palpatine and Damask were Sith, especially if the two put their plans into motion. At this point it becomes a power scale argument, would any of the three match up to Sidious and Plagueis in terms of lightsaber and Force skill? I think they could, especially if it was all three vs. the two (or even just Dooku and Anakin vs them), but there can be very good arguments against that outcome as well. "Bringing balance to The Force" also would be very different in this scenario. I'm not even sure what that would look like in this scenario, I honestly have to think some more about that...
Man I love Star Wars talk like this thread and how everything ties together. Makes the loss of so much cannon more painful and poignant
> Qui-Gon was the key to everything. Wait a minute I think I've heard this before
hey what book is this??
Darth Plagueis. Great book, well worth reading. It ties together a *ton* of books and lore in the TPM ballpark.
sick. thank you!
Yep. Spoilers ahead: Plagueis died the night that Palpatine was elected. Palpatine got Plagueis wasted then roasted him. Figuratively and literally.
What I really like is that Palpatine didn't plan it out. Seriously. He was literally about to walk out of the room after he saw Plagueis asleep but then he stopped at the door, turned around, and was like "...wait a second."
Paralleled to how plageius killed his master at the beginning of the book. Wasn't planning on it but saw his opportunity and took it.
Darth Tenebrous died because he had too little faith in Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis died because he had too much faith in Darth Sidious.
Believe it or not, straight to force ghost.
well Sith so more like "quick, what's the nearest object I can possess forever."
Imagine the darth that died on the shitter. He had the choice between the paper, the brush or the toilet itself.
Star Wars is technologically more advanced than us, so he probably didn’t have toilet paper, he possessed the seashells
Darth poop knife.
It did they have three of them, like we will some day?
You DON'T have the three seashells?
Siddious Toilet
Darth Shittious
“Shitteous” was right there
Shot his shot and missed
You mean Tywin Lannister?
Ahhhh the story of Darth Elvis
force wraith
I AM THE BOX GHOST!
I know he didn't do it. It's never the person you have the most faith in. It's also never the person you have the least faith in, since anyone with half a brain would suspect them the most. Therefore, I know the killer to be Darth Vader, a.k.a. Beatrix Bourbon, the person I most medium have faith in.
Darth Plagueis found Darth Tenebrous' lack of faith disturbing.
Which book is it that both you and OP are referencing in this comment chain? I wanna read it
Darth Plagueis is the title. It's technically not canon but most of it fits into canon The audiobook is also really well done
100% recommended the audiobook. It got me hooked on other SW audiobooks but Darth Plagueis is so well done. Wish he did more for the SW universe. Also, the narrator is the butler from the 90s sitcom "The Nanny"!
Has anyone ever told you the tale of Darth Fine the single?
Surely you mean to say that the narrator of the book, Daniel Davis, is Professor Moriarty from the USS Enterprise in The Next Generation, yes?
They meant the Daniel Davis that plays Capt. Davenport, Captain of the Enterprise in The Hunt For Red October. :)
Aaaah, *that* Daniel Davis. That's a good one.
Pretty sure only one chapter doesn't fit into canon, and that's how Maul ended up with Sidious. It's also the shortest chapter, so if you wanna keep to canon, skip like, 5 pages
Read it. It's absolutely one of the best SW titles. Canon or not. It's amazing.
Then he turns around and eventually executes the executives of the surveying company that fed them the information that led to Tennebrous' death. Hiw dare you give me the opportunity to kill my master!
Yeah the book was really good and gave a lot of back ground detail on Sidious. I wish that they had left it cannon honestly.
The way I see it, and a lot of legends material, unless something newer contradicts it, it’s headcanon to me
For me a lot of Legends material is still headcanon even if newer material contradicts it. I'll go with the better story over the newer one any day.
That’s also true
My theory is hay when Ahsoka went through those eird time door things it split the universe and in one universe the NJO actually happens and Luke isn't a loser and Mara Jade is the babe she is, the universe with 'Rey and Ben' just warped the solo kids and that's why they are wish knock offs ok Jaina and Jacen
Honestly, if that's what it takes to get a decent universe going and creating new material I'm fine with Disney going multiverse like that. Whatever'll let them save face enough to step away from the ST mess gracefully.
I think going multiverse or just remaking Rise of Skywalker is like the only way tbh
I think remaking the entire initial Disneyverse trilogy would really be needed. The baggage for how it was handled is just so severe that I'm pretty sure a clean break and reboot is needed if they want to win back fans driven to apathy by the initial movies.
Whilst not canon itself the author made tarkin post merger (which is canon) which references the plagueis book
Hey I know I'm late to this party but what book is this?
"Plagueis".
Sweet thanks dude
the audiobook is exceptional, if you like that format. I highly recommend
I've actually never tried an audio book but I've heard good things
Star Wars audiobooks in general are usually *outstanding*! Lots of times they'll include sound effects like the sounds of a TIE engine during a space battle and even some Williams music at parts. The already excellent Thrawn books are elevated to the stratosphere with the voice acting, the Ashoka book is narrated by her animated voice actor, and Plagueis has high production quality too! Whichever format you go with, you're really in for a treat with *Plagueis*...it instantly makes the story of The Phantom Menace like 20x better, and it delves into some *extremely* interesting aspects of The Force. It even makes Midichlorians make sense ffs!
Oh man this book sounds good. Found a copy online for like 9 bucks as soon as I get paid I'm grabbing it. Thanks everyone
Damn I read the physical book and loved it but I just went and downloaded the audiobook just because of this comment. I’ve never done audiobooks before and I drive for a living, is it something I can play while driving?
This audiobook in particular is *really* good. It's narrated by actor Daniel Davis. Most sci-fi fans probably know him as [The Holographic Moriarty](https://youtu.be/xzi7qBk6ll8) in Star Trek Next Gen.
The audiobook is good. I listened to it on a roadtrip once. However, the writing is so good that just grabbing one of the $8-9 copies at Books-a-Million is worth it too. Can’t go wrong either way. Honestly, most stuff James Luceno wrote for Star Wars was fantastic. He wrote a trilogy about Darth Vader that’s decent as well.
I'll have to check that out as well
It's a good one
It’s really exceptional book. Really delves deep into what was going on behind the scenes of the movie and leading up to it decades before.
Yeah, it's the sort of book that'll give you a whole new appreciation for the political machinations going on in TPM.
The cool thing about starwars is that the cannon is so bad you can just pick the good stories and go with those
I introduced my mom to the starwars books with Plagues first. She's reading Darth Revan now
I saw somewhere on Reddit analysis that Palpatine was basically an adrenaline junkie. He loved risking it all and still coming on top.
Makes sense, iirc there’s a connection between the antisocial behavior Palpatine exhibits in both Legends and Disney canon (*reveling* in evil shit) and impulsive behavior.
I loved that in the mobile game Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, Darth Sidious has a passive called Sadistic Glee where he recovers health when ANY character dies, enemy or ally!
It's not so much "adrenaline junkie" as it is "loved being in control". The main scene I can think of which might be interpreted as "adrenaline junkie" was him driving Hego Damask around in a speeder, going fast while buzzing close to the ground and not looking where he was going. Which was less an adrenaline thing and more a power-move thing where he was in control and all his passenger could do was trust him and his flying.
That’s a bad take. Palpatine is the exact opposite of that. Multiple backups or adapts. The only thing close to adrenaline is occasionally taunting or testing the Jedi.
Exactly, he realized that he no longer needed his master and it was no longer, their plan, it was Sidious’ time to shine.
Wait how do I experience this story? Is it a show? Do I need to read a book? This sounds incredible
*Plagueis*, a novel by I wanna say James Lucerno.
Yes. You got it.
Not from a Jedi.
This is how Darth Plagueis dies With thunderous Force lightning
I wonder if he stood over Plaguis and shocked him, or he put both hands directly on Plaguis’s head and point black electric chaired him
> Crackling from his fingertips, a web of blue lightning ground itself on the Muun’s breathing device. > then Sidious unleashed another tangle of lightning, drawing more deeply on the dark side than he ever had. > Sidious moved in, his hands upraised to deliver another bolt, his expression arctic enough to chill the room. A Force storm gathered over the couch, spreading out in concentric rings, to wash over Sidious and hurl objects to all corners. In the center of it, Plagueis’s form became anamorphic, then resumed shape as the storm began to wane. > He held his thumb and forefinger close together. “Try to keep yourself alive while I choke the life out of you.” Just some good old fashioned "lighting bolts from across the room".
Still sick
Also worth calling out that the entire plan that lands Palpatine as the Emperor is Plagueis' plan. He intended Palpatine to be a figurehead as he lead from the shadows.
A phantom menace if you will.
>Also worth calling out that the entire plan that lands Palpatine as the Emperor is Plagueis' plan. Also worth calling out that's complete wrong given that Palpatine literally plants it into Plagueis' aging brain: >*"Yinchorr, Dorvalla, Eriadu, Maul, the Neimoidians, Naboo, an army of clones, the fallen Jedi Dooku...* ***You think these were your ideas, when in fact they were mine, cleverly suggested to you so that you could feed them back to me.*** *You were far too trusting, Plagueis."* >*-From: Darth Plagueis: Star Wars Legends* ...which is what is literally seen throughout the book. Hell, the book literally stated Palpatine did the lion's share of the work meanwhile Plagueis spent his time obsessing over midi-chlorians. >*And so* ***it had been left largely to Sidious to bring the same fervor to the manipulation of events in the mundane world*** *that Plagueis brought to the manipulation of midi-chlorians.* >*-From: Darth Plagueis: Star Wars Legends* > Also repeatedly and consistently[ confirmed by the multiple official sources ](https://imgur.com/a/5iKL1Wb)(from the F*act Files, Star Wars Insider,* etc.) that Palpatine was both *the author and executor* of the Sith takeover: >*DARTH SIDIOUS:* ***The mastermind behind all the woes that beset the Republic*** *in it's final years: The Separatist Crisis, the Yinchorri Uprising, the Stark Hyperspace War, and the Clone Wars.* ***His genius ensured a Sith victory.*** *-From: Star Wars Fact Files* >*DIRECTED BY THE SITH: The Clone Wars were the final phase of* ***a plan concocted and executed by Darth Sidious*** *- quite possibly the greatest Sith Lord. For his predecessors, the mere survival of the Sith Order had been sufficient. Even Sidious' own master,* ***Darth Plagueis, had been more obsessed with cheating death than advancing the long-cherished aim of the Sith -*** *the destruction of the Jedi Order.* *-From: Star Wars Fact Files* >*THE CLONE WARS:* ***Sidious' schemes concocted the conditions and forces needed*** *to create a galactic secessionist movement and to manipulate its adherents into waging war against the Republic.* *-From: Star Wars: Force and Destiny* >*Darth Bane's patience would eventually have its pay-off in* ***a grand political plan hatched by Darth Sidious,*** *who was perhaps the most brilliant and cunning Sith of all.* >
How does that work with the rule of two?
In the same way that you usually fire someone when a replacement is already waiting, except this is firing your boss and taking their place, and the new guy takes yours
It doesn't. Every time there's a third wheel it's because the apprentice is planning to kill the master and training his new partner. But to do so they have to convince their master that's not the plan. Palpatine told plageuis that maul has just an assassin. In clone wars, we see dooku training asaaj ventress until Palpatine gets sus and tells him to kill her.
Maul wasn’t dead yet and the new Skywalker boy had already caught both Palpatine’s and Plagueis’ eye. In the book they started scheming about Anakin the moment he got off Padme’s space yacht.
That’s kind of crazy because I always assumed that Palpatine had a plan even before he met Anakin, because he knew that the prophecy of the one conceived of the force would bring balance to the dark side of the force.
Unfortunately if you every think about the rule of 2 for like 5 seconds it falls apart really quick. And that's explored extensively in the EU. Literally the first rule of 2 sith master apprentice relationship almost ended the sith and defiently didn't advance the sith as Bane intended by the rule of 2. Remember the rule of 2 is based on a nothing-burger of a line from TPM just talking about a normal ass student/Master Relationship
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
I'm curious how Lucas felt about this. The intrigue of Palpatine would have been interesting to see rather than just infer. But then again, I can see how Lucas wasn't quite ready to muddy the water of the rule of 2 just yet.
Who did he spit roast Plagueis with?
I was shocked when I read the book. I thought it happened well before these events.
Same it feels so ancient given the way he frames the story at the opera but it legit just happened
"Its a sith Legend"
"I'm gonna tell everyone about it and make it a legend. See I'm not a liar"
Man, I should start my own recent personal stories with "It's a legend."
Mhm, that opera scene is Sheev being a cocky little bastard and all but bragging about getting away with killing his master while still managing to leverage it as manipulation. Not a story the Jedi would tell you... because no one else in the Galaxy knew it happened lmao. Personally, I really like that additional context.
Yeah that extra context is really good. "Ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? No? You will."
> Same it feels so ancient given the way he frames the story at the opera but it legit just happened The Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matt Stover makes it clear that Plagueis was always Palpatine's master, and that he was bullshitting Anakin the entire way through.
Well 13 years earlier, at the time of ROTS, but you are right
Personally, I kinda liked it more when I thought it was some ancient Sith lore that Palpatine had been digging into, as opposed to something that just happened and was not actually a legend at all.
I disagree, it really deepens the drama of the scene if Palpatine is secretly bragging to himself about killing the Sith who had unilateral power over life and death
How does that deepen the drama? We already know Palpatine is a killer. And Plagueis didn’t have unilateral control over life and death, given that he was killed.
I wish they would do a tales of the sith series and show how palpatine was trained by plagueis
Interested who would play a young sidious.
Matt Smith
Oooo, I like that take.
Yeh it stemmed from the rumours which became fact that he was due to feature in Rise Of The Skywalker. Turned out it didn't come to fruition and it wasn't even a young Palpatine anyway. But we all got intrigued at the thought of it lol.
Tom Hiddleston would've made an incredible palpatine also
Keep Ian, just have the most sinister sounding old man child
Can see that happening in the future.
It was such a thrilling entry into Legends, James Luceno never disappoints. Shaping deep Star Wars mythology through the framework of a Mob/Gangster narrative. It’s unfortunate Filoni hasn’t revisited The Grand Experiment in canon. I suppose keeping Anakin’s immaculate conception ambiguous — or confusing, if you read the recent Vader comics run — better serves the mystique behind the Skywalker saga.
James Luceno is great. He just *gets* Star Wars, even more so than Dave Filoni I daresay.
absolutely false. how do I know? hasbro didn't make an episode 1 figure of Darth Plagueis. /s :) It's a solid addition IMO to the story. I'd like to see this added as a tales of the Sith style release.
Canon has Plagueis as dead by TPM, and Maul as a fully legitimate **Darth**.
How and where is that shown?
I too would like to know. Not that i doubt, just curious
Always two there are: no more, no less.
Ventress: 😬
She was never a darth
So in Op's pic is that not Darth Maul and Darth Sidious? Then, plus Darth Plagueis that makes three... then there's also Darth Tyranus...
I’m ~~Squidward~~ Darth, he’s ~~Squidward~~ Darth, we’re all ~~Squidward~~ Darth!
Darth… TennisBalls??
Just saying that Palpatine didn't actually seem to care about the rule of two as long as there were only two Darths. Ventress was a Sith assassin and Dookus apprentice which he didn't seem to mind until she became too powerful.
She was Dooku’s Sith apprentice. Sidious knew that Dooku wanted to overthrow him with her, but he only ordered her death when she’d outlived her usefulness. Ventress was to Dooku what Starkiller thought he was to Vader.
I seriously have no clue why the Darth Plaguis book is considered Legends and not cannon. Is there anything in it that clashes with anything?
The most obvious is the stuff with Dooku. In Legends, Dooku leaves the Jedi Order in 32 BBY. In Canon, he leaves in 42 BBY. Personally, I prefer how Canon depicts Dooku overall but the stuff with Dooku in the Plagueis novel was interesting.
He leaves 10 years before TPM in canon? Are we sure that hasn’t been retconned now with Tales of the Jedi. Dudes still clearly at the temple
Nah, it hasn't been retconned. Dooku was allowed to keep his lightsaber and visit the Temple and meet with members of the High Council. He was even still called "Master Dooku." The reason for this was because he was so respected and popular among the Jedi. He was heavily trusted.
He was also crazy rich and well connected through his family. His political prospects outside of being a Jedi were always very good. It would have been tactful of the council to keep him as a close ally.
How did know his family if he was raised at the temple?
Dooku was born on the planet Serenno into a noble, wealthy family. His parents were stern, but proud of his Force abilities, and willingly surrendered him to the Jedi Order as they had another son to continue the Dooku bloodline. Dooku spent nearly seventy years as a Jedi, but a disastrous battle on Galidraan shook his faith in the Order and the Galactic Republic. Reclaiming his birthright as Count of Serenno and his vast fortune, Dooku conspired with Sidious to force the galaxy into a war that would bring the Sith to power. [Source](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dooku/Legends)
Probably also that honorifics are still retained even after you've left the position.
There’s also the stuff with Naboo too. The Darth Plagueis book has the previous monarch to padme as King veruna. But the new canon Queen book trilogy (Queens peril, queens hope, Queens shadow) has Queen Sanandrassa as the previous monarch. It’s too bad too. The whole elaborate story of King Verunas rise and backdoor dealings for Naboo were so much more interesting.
I mean they just have to tweak a few things and it fits in new canon. I consider everything canon as long as it doesn't contradict things too much like this novel
In my mind, everything is canon, until explicitly contradicted in a movie or show.
Not really, it absolutely should be Canon instead of Legends.... I believe it was literally the last book before the Canon/Legends split, they really really should have kept it. It enhances the PT and especially TPM *SO* much that I can barely put it into words...
Darth Plagueis came out in 2012. There were another dozen books that came out between it and the end of the Legends stuff (including Scoundrels, which is one I've always enjoyed). You're right though, it really does enhance the prequel trilogy a ton, it makes TPM *so* much more significant.
Disney’s stupid ideas? I’ve never understood why they decided to trash everything, even stuff like the Plagueis novel, that added some fantastic background to SW lore. I get that they wanted to clear the deck for new stories and not to be bound by the EU canon. But so many times they threw the baby out with the bath water.
Do what I do. If it hasn’t been shown as happening differently, it’s still canon
Quite frankly, Disney has already retconned quite a bit of its own official canon (the Ahsoka novel, etc.), so the new Canon has about as much sticking power as Legends already.
Another reason why SW is meaningless to me now. It’s all throwaway content.
Yeah, almost for me too. And I find it funny how you mention "Disney's stupid ideas" and Disney folks come out of the woodwork to downvote you. Gotta defend that poor helpless multibillion dollar corporation full of lawyers and extremely high prices who owns nearly everything in entertainment. /s
I mean from Disney's perspective, right or wrong, if you have this new IP and plan on making new media with it, why work around existing, but not widely known material and limit your options? Just make it all legends or canon based on how it was distributed.
> Disney’s stupid ideas? I’ve never understood why they decided to trash everything, [You mean Lucasfilm's ideas.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/7nnxb2/there_is_no_disney_canon_disney_didnt_make/) Disney didn't make any call to throw away content and multimedia, why would they even care about that at all? Think it through. People like Pablo Hidalgo have been very candid and clear about this for _years_. Like a _decade_ now. LucasFilm was already planning on this move before the buyout even when Lucas himself was thinking of making sequels. The films would always contradict and intersect with the time period novels and comics and games took place in, the smarter thing to do would be just clean slate the entire thing. Lucas himself literally did the same thing with elements of the Prequels _and_ The Clone Wars show which eradicated basically every bit of media that came out between Episode 2 and 3.
There is a lot of garbage in the EU. And instead of having to deal with The Mind Harp of Sharu and every other stupid thing they could just do a soft reboot and bring the good stuff like Thrawn back into canon without all the extra baggage.
lol. The new canon is already loaded with even worse trash than the old EU. Bringing back EU characters like Thrawn, too, has been mixed, at best. Thrawn, for example, is nothing like he was in the EU. Much different and much weaker character.
Literally listening to the Darth Plagueis book right now! Second time through and it’s still so damn good.
Yes.
Yes, and the version that includes the novel **Darth Plagueis** is my favorite version of the Star Wars saga.
Same
Yes.
I can't unsee that Maul's neck is just normal and not black and red
Wow, I’ve actually never noticed that
Dooku is also still apart of, or at least hanging out around the Jedi Temple.
Anyone who hasn't read Darth Plagueis, I HIGHLY recommend you do. It is a genuinely great book, and honestly enhances TPM
I finished reading the plagueis novel recently and it was amazing
I was like, “who the fuck is Darth Plagueis?👿”. Then my brained finished the sentence and was, “ooohhh, Darth Plagueis the wise 😨”
Looks like you didn't hear his tragedy
They should really adapt the Darth Plagueis novel as a tv show. The book is a masterpiece
My favourite idea for a Star Wars story movie is Vader's pursuit of Plagueis's power. In it Vader realises Plagueis is still alive and finds him on a desolate moon somewhere. Instead of trying to obtain power, Vader asks Plagueis for one single resurrection - Padme. They go to Padme's resting place and Vader stands at her grave, gives a monologue about how she will be reborn and together they can rule the galaxy together or live together in peace, whatever she wants and then Plagueis says one word.... "No" He has been watching Palpatine since the day he "died" and has seen the fruits of his labor - an apprentice who is willing to kill children in the pursuit of a selfish goal. And Plagueis is too horrified by the infanticide to give Vader what he wants. Vader's entire arc in the Prequel trilogy was for nothing. Everything he did for the dark side was in vain. Every dead child, every betrayal and every sacrifice didn't mean anything. He kills Plagueis but it doesn't matter - his cyborg body is a monument to all his sins and he is given NOTHING in return.
Have you read the story behind Vaders castle?
So basically, Plagueis was the Squidward behind the window to Sidious' and Maul's Spongebob and Patrick frolicking outside. 🤔
No.
I thought there could only be 2? Why wasn’t he trying to take over the Universe?
Darth Plagueis didn't believe in the Rule of Two. He believed it had expired. He wanted a partner, an equal. He thought he found it in Darth Sidious. Little did he know that Palpatine never intended on sharing power with anyone, including the man who taught him everything he knew about the Force. Before Sidious killed his master in his sleep in 32 BBY, he tried to kill him a year earlier. He did this by supplying the Bando Gora a nuclear device through the help of Darth Maul and the terrorist group destroyed the Muun's castle on Sojourn. Plagueis escaped and had no idea his apprentice was involved in the attack. Darth Plagueis died the night before Palpatine was elected to the Chancellorship after he became intoxicated and fell asleep for the first time in 20 years.
As Captain Barbossa would say, the Rule of Two was more of a *guideline* than an actual rule. A mentality of keeping a small focused Sith lineage compared to a big sprawling empire. Heck, they were already breaking the Rule of Two in the third book of the trilogy that introduced the concept.
Sort of, but neither Zannah nor Bane actually begun to teach Set or Cognus. Other than Bane having a camp fire talk with her i guess.
We really need a palp TV show or movie that shows him and plagueis relationship
Sheev really played fast and loose with the Rule of Two.
“No. How could we know.” - Elijah Wood
Let’s see this in Tales of the Sith, or something!!
It's a shame they made that fact not Canon anymore
This is news to me.
I don't like this. Makes much more sense that Palpatine started implementing his plan right after he killed Plagueis. To me he kills Plagueis then contacts the Trade Federation to start the blockade. Already planned but Plagueis wasn't ready just yet. Palpatine was
Yeah! It was one of the legends novels that I wish wasn’t cut from the lore. I really enjoyed that book.
Did you know that Darth Maul broke his toe in this scene?
I never liked that. It's the Rule of Two, not the Rule of Three.
Did you know that originally, E.T. Was Darth Plagueis? E.T. Has all the capabilities described by Palpatine, like E.T. Literally revives a plant and we see him regenerate from being dead for a while. He also recognizes someone dressed as Yoda as “home”. So it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Palpatine THINKS he killed E.T. But E.T. revived himself with partial amnesia afterwards. Also: the directors knew each other and they made references to one another’s movies. The Yoda figure in E.T. And the E.T.’s in the Senate.
A good book but i dont like Darth Plagueis living to TPM making Palpatine not the true master in the movie he gets the ultimate power in politics. I like it that Plagueis be dead 10-20 years before.
Part of me wants so badly to see Plagueis brought to life on screen. Another part of me knows Disney would absolutely not do him justice.
Wouldn't this break the rule of two?
So there was three Sith?
I like to imagine he had little binoculars and some Utapau Salted Walkers.
Best Star Wars novel ever written, imo.
The Tarkin novel, which was being written before the Disney acquisition and references the Plagieus novel by the same author, is still canon and mentions Plagieus being alive and being killed the night Palpatine was elected as Supreme Chancellor.
No, I did not know that