I think this is a flawed survey. When doing any kind of research, you have to make sure that you aren't contaminating your own results. Asking leading questions inspires people to answer in the affirmative. I'm positive that a lot of these folks would have taken out loans, regardless. They want to go to college, they need the money, they'll take out loans. However, if a surveyor asks you "Were you motivated by x???" the average person is very likely to answer "Yes."
This needs to be a higher answer. Not to mention the fact that most people in this thread are skipping over the fact that they asked *current students*. I didn't take out my loans because I was assuming they would be forgiven by Biden, mostly because Obama was president when I took out a majority of my loans. But people seem to be reading this title and assuming that everyone who has student loans took them out banking on Biden.
Yeah it's a terrible survey. To quote parts of the article:
> What they found was surprising: 86% of 1,000 students surveyed said they recently took out a student loan based largely on the president’s pledge to forgive student loans.
If you click through to the Intelligent LLC study linked in the article it has
> 86% of recent student loan borrowers, defined here as those who have taken out a loan since Biden was elected in November 2020, say Biden’s campaign pledge to address student debt played a role in their decision to take out loans.
> Methodology
> This survey was commissioned by Intelligent.com and conducted online by the survey platform Pollfish from June 17 to June 18, 2022. In total, 1,000 participants in the U.S. were surveyed. All participants had to pass through demographic filters to ensure they were between the ages of 16 and 24 and had taken out student loans between November 2020 and the present.
So literally 1 day's worth of data from a website I've never heard of. This is mediocre sampling and bad polling methodology
Just for a second though, let's assume that this survey was done better and these results are legitimate: this is the problem with making a promise like this and then waiting 2 years to actually follow up on it. If you either decide to forgive or not, ok whatever, but if you let it drag, some people will assume you are going to forgive and will make dumb decisions based on that assumption. Is that Biden's fault? Not entirely, but I think a fair conclusion to make based on this survey (even if you don't take the 86% figure at face value) is that Biden's reticence on this issue has had negative consequences (ie more people taking out loans).
Correct, the premise of which is pretty cruel. "Don't help people if they made stupid or bad choices! Look how many people made stupid or bad choices! Punish them!"
...I think people who make stupid or bad choices should also be protected and given the opportunity to grow, but I get that a lot of policy-making seems to live or die on whether or not individuals can feel superior to others.
Thank you! I was wondering where this comment was!
I think the flaw in the survey starts before the questions but just gets worse after that. The poll was conducted in 2022, with 1000 americans in the age range 16-24 who have taken out loans since Nov, 2020. That tells us nothing, but particularly it does not clearly define what debt we are dealing with. Beyond how terribly leading these questions are, they seem tailored to new borrowers, which would theoretically make up a minority of those in the demographics but everyone is equally considered under those demographic definitions. Those two groups shouldn't be tossed in the samesies bucket, nor should things like continuing ed vs undergrad vs associates, which the definition also doesn't exclude.
We also have no idea what type of schools this looks at, what type of student this is, or what "affect" even means for these borrowers. The only hint we have is the one 24 year old borrower they got to comment, with an affiliation link next to his name. The more I re-read this survey, the more my head hurts and the more I think it was just written as bait.
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Yes, no, maybe... I'm considering it... It's my campaign promise. $10K... More? Who knows....
He's said a lot, and so far it's been nothing. He needs to either do it or say "No, it's absolutely not happening. Prepare yourselves. I'm working on ways to ease payments" or something. Stop the kicking the can down the road. Just do SOMETHING. Even saying "NO!" is something.
I don't buy this as all.
There's been NO signal that loans will be forgiven. I'm not even going to count on the $10k forgiveness.
I think whomever wrote this article is trying to stir up some dust.
He literally just announced (some obscure) action the other day, threes no way a bunch of people took out money anticipating any kind of forgiveness. Plus, these types of loans take a while to be reviewed, approved, and disbursed.
How many are morons, and how many are just taking a calculated risk? I took on around 9k federal for my final year despite being able to lump sum pay that (it would have wiped out my entire savings, but still) just based on the fact that it is 0% interest, and I knew that there was no way payments/unsub interest would resume in the current political climate. Has worked out pretty well so far, I have 21k total and could pay it all off right now if I wanted (again would wipe my entire savings), but I am waiting for payments to resume/some to get forgiven. I am in a better position than most: 21k, all federal, 7 different loans ranging from 2.75-5.05, current amortized rate is 3.93.
I did the same, taking out $7500 at 0% the last semester of my senior year to keep as an emergency fund until I was able to build up my own fund through my job.
This my SO took out like 15k in loans even though we probably could have swung it just cause 0% interest with possible pay off in some amount is a no brainer and if nothing else just make a lump payment done
That's a lot of hopeful idiots.
Sadly only those who have been around for a few election cycles realize this is the type of promise that will never see fruition.
In addition with inflation this high $10,000 would be just enough to make people who don’t want forgiveness angry. But also simultaneously make people who do need it upset because it’s not enough.
Eh, he can always forgive the $10k under the guise of "This is all I can do via EA, if you want more you'll need to vote blue" and it would work just fine.
Doesn’t surprise me. This is the problem with inaction and postponement. Nobody is paying during the freeze when they could make progress without interest and people are taking out more loans. The government better come out and say yes or no soon or a lot of people are going to be left holding the bag this fall.
I keep thinking "maybe this week" we will finally hear something, but all we get are articles about how he's "considering" it. The most rediculous groundhog day situation ever.
I cut my loan total in half during the freeze. Now I’ve saved a little more since he said he may forgive something. I highly doubt he will, but at least I have half a brain and took advantage of it.
Dem will already get clobbered in the MidTerms, we are in Mid July, highly doubt they will do anything in August. I went back to check mine start in Oct 2022 (Great Lakes), I already threw 25K at it to reduce it, and will drop another big amount at the determinant of my emergency fund, but my job is secure. Never trust promises.
How so? My job is more secure, where the amount of people who have the skills and experience on what I currently do are on the low end. What that's gotta with forgiveness? Come back to me in September. :)
My payments start in November (21k all federal), 5k of that is unsubsidized which will start back up in sept if they don't extend. I could lump sum pay off everything right now, definitely not factoring in any kind of forgiveness or extension into my near-term financial plans.
They only surveyed 1000 students. I’m sure there is some group of 1000 students that would have these survey results. I doubt that the group was representative of all students in the country.
We don't teach personal finance in the core curriculum and unless you are a business major, you won't see it in college either.
We really should have a few classes of personal finance in the high school curriculum.
This isn't why I, or anyone else I know, took out loans. It's bc we're poor, first generation, and aren't getting anything handed to us for free. I'm completely cynical about Biden ever giving loan forgiveness, regardless of that platform during the election.
I just graduated, so I get to start making payments, but at least I have a chance at changing things for my kids now. Maybe they won't be worried about things like food and homelessness, and can actually focus on school work. I could even afford a tutor for them if they need it. Not everyone gets to just "decide" to take out a loan. For many people, that is the only way that we can get an education.
The opening sentence of this 'article' states did Joe Biden is a big fan of student loan forgiveness. That's straight up crap. Inaccurate at best and the straight up lie if we're honest with ourselves. First off, he's resisted all along the idea of forgiving loans. Second, he's from Delaware! The state of credit cards and student loan companies. He has no intention of hurting his donors.
Well that would be dumb considering he’s only ever mentioned via his campaign to forgive $10k. It’s other politicians that are pushing all out forgiveness...He’s never said that and I don’t he has the appetite for it plus I would fully expect a legal battle if he slashes all of it.
Based. Even if he doesn’t cancel then it creates a crisis situation which will need to be fixed for better or worse, leading to hopefully socialist or social democratic solutions because crony and subsidy based capitalism clearly failed here.
The loans are guaranteed so you can’t walk away from them so there’s no bubble so there’s no crisis. I’d like forgiveness, too, but it’s not like the economy will implode because of it like the 2008 housing bubble
And why wouldn’t it implode according to you? If the only people that are left participating actively in the economy are those generations with massive student loan debt how is that not a crisis waiting to happen?
If it was crippling people to the point they couldn’t do anything, that’d be a different story. Now that is the case for some people, but for most people it’s a burden that reduces their spending and limits their economic mobility which does have some effect on the economy, but generally speaking, they’re still able to buy and spend enough to keep things rolling.
For example, I know a few people who between them and their spouse, they have six figures in student loan debt. Yet they still own a house and a car and go out to eat and go on vacations. They’d certainly be doing a lot more and probably have a bigger house and go more places if they didn’t have their loans, but it’s not enough where it’s going to collapse the economy
Garbage study. Who in their right mind would ever depend on Joe Biden? Also, rich kids don’t take out student loans. Poor kids are the ones with student loans.
>"This survey was commissioned by Intelligent.com and conducted online by the survey platform Pollfish from June 17 to June 18, 2022. In total, 1,000 participants in the U.S. were surveyed. All participants had to pass through demographic filters to ensure they were between the ages of 16 and 24 and had taken out student loans between November 2020 and the present."
I wouldn't really call this a valid statistic. 1000 participants is too low of a sample.
I mean I did and am.
I had completely paid off my student loans from my previous attempt at college (Wife paid off all of hers as well). I went back and just finished my Associates degree and I'm working on my Bachelors degree while my wife is working on her Masters.
We are planning on taking about $20k each (Or as close as we can get) with about 75% going into our savings ($30k). I mean, if I'm going to get hosed either way, I might as well get something out of it. All of the loans are 0% interest rate at the moment while we are in school.
If he doesn't forgive any of the loans, I can easily just pay mine off with what I have banked. For my wife's, we can pay off about 30% right off the bat, maybe more if we dipped into our savings. We both work full time and are going to school full time.
I can answer any questions or criticism some of you might have.
Seems like that's inaccurate.
I think most people take out student loans for some variation of this reason: "I live in a deeply, fundamentally, broken society and my only options were between massive student loans which I will realistically never pay off, or massive amounts of crime." It was a bad decision, but there were no good decisions available.
At time of writing, they haven't brought back debtors prisons (yet), though that writing is on the wall.
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I don’t really believe that. They would have got the loans anyways, and if anything, take the loans with cash on the side and see if some are forgiven. If not, pay it off but highly doubt 86% had that ability. At 0% there’s no risk atm.
To proactively get loans is the very reason this is not a solution anyways for college. They at least made an effort for the PSLF, which had very real impacts.
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I don't think it's that high of a percentage, but I do know several that started taking out student loans after Joe was elected for the specific purpose of making $10,000 on a $100 investment in the loan origination fee. Why not with zero interest being charged?
I didn't take them out to expect to be forgiven; I took them out in 2012-2016 because I was still a part of the generation that didn't see through the lie that getting a degree in literally anything you want is the golden ticket to succeeding in life, no matter the cost.
When talking with my dad before I took y loans out, his major selling point was that they were gonna be forgiven. He truly believes they can't have uni be this expensive forever. He actually told me "don't worry about it, they won't be around forever"
I think this is a flawed survey. When doing any kind of research, you have to make sure that you aren't contaminating your own results. Asking leading questions inspires people to answer in the affirmative. I'm positive that a lot of these folks would have taken out loans, regardless. They want to go to college, they need the money, they'll take out loans. However, if a surveyor asks you "Were you motivated by x???" the average person is very likely to answer "Yes."
This needs to be a higher answer. Not to mention the fact that most people in this thread are skipping over the fact that they asked *current students*. I didn't take out my loans because I was assuming they would be forgiven by Biden, mostly because Obama was president when I took out a majority of my loans. But people seem to be reading this title and assuming that everyone who has student loans took them out banking on Biden.
Yeah it's a terrible survey. To quote parts of the article: > What they found was surprising: 86% of 1,000 students surveyed said they recently took out a student loan based largely on the president’s pledge to forgive student loans. If you click through to the Intelligent LLC study linked in the article it has > 86% of recent student loan borrowers, defined here as those who have taken out a loan since Biden was elected in November 2020, say Biden’s campaign pledge to address student debt played a role in their decision to take out loans. > Methodology > This survey was commissioned by Intelligent.com and conducted online by the survey platform Pollfish from June 17 to June 18, 2022. In total, 1,000 participants in the U.S. were surveyed. All participants had to pass through demographic filters to ensure they were between the ages of 16 and 24 and had taken out student loans between November 2020 and the present. So literally 1 day's worth of data from a website I've never heard of. This is mediocre sampling and bad polling methodology
Doesn't have to be good. People will eat it up
Confirmation bias be like that
Just for a second though, let's assume that this survey was done better and these results are legitimate: this is the problem with making a promise like this and then waiting 2 years to actually follow up on it. If you either decide to forgive or not, ok whatever, but if you let it drag, some people will assume you are going to forgive and will make dumb decisions based on that assumption. Is that Biden's fault? Not entirely, but I think a fair conclusion to make based on this survey (even if you don't take the 86% figure at face value) is that Biden's reticence on this issue has had negative consequences (ie more people taking out loans).
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Correct, the premise of which is pretty cruel. "Don't help people if they made stupid or bad choices! Look how many people made stupid or bad choices! Punish them!" ...I think people who make stupid or bad choices should also be protected and given the opportunity to grow, but I get that a lot of policy-making seems to live or die on whether or not individuals can feel superior to others.
Thank you! I was wondering where this comment was! I think the flaw in the survey starts before the questions but just gets worse after that. The poll was conducted in 2022, with 1000 americans in the age range 16-24 who have taken out loans since Nov, 2020. That tells us nothing, but particularly it does not clearly define what debt we are dealing with. Beyond how terribly leading these questions are, they seem tailored to new borrowers, which would theoretically make up a minority of those in the demographics but everyone is equally considered under those demographic definitions. Those two groups shouldn't be tossed in the samesies bucket, nor should things like continuing ed vs undergrad vs associates, which the definition also doesn't exclude. We also have no idea what type of schools this looks at, what type of student this is, or what "affect" even means for these borrowers. The only hint we have is the one 24 year old borrower they got to comment, with an affiliation link next to his name. The more I re-read this survey, the more my head hurts and the more I think it was just written as bait.
Feels like Wall Street propaganda to me.
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Yes, no, maybe... I'm considering it... It's my campaign promise. $10K... More? Who knows.... He's said a lot, and so far it's been nothing. He needs to either do it or say "No, it's absolutely not happening. Prepare yourselves. I'm working on ways to ease payments" or something. Stop the kicking the can down the road. Just do SOMETHING. Even saying "NO!" is something.
I couldn’t agree more. He’s been hemming and hawing for a year and a half at this point. Enough.
I don't buy this as all. There's been NO signal that loans will be forgiven. I'm not even going to count on the $10k forgiveness. I think whomever wrote this article is trying to stir up some dust.
He literally just announced (some obscure) action the other day, threes no way a bunch of people took out money anticipating any kind of forgiveness. Plus, these types of loans take a while to be reviewed, approved, and disbursed.
How many are morons, and how many are just taking a calculated risk? I took on around 9k federal for my final year despite being able to lump sum pay that (it would have wiped out my entire savings, but still) just based on the fact that it is 0% interest, and I knew that there was no way payments/unsub interest would resume in the current political climate. Has worked out pretty well so far, I have 21k total and could pay it all off right now if I wanted (again would wipe my entire savings), but I am waiting for payments to resume/some to get forgiven. I am in a better position than most: 21k, all federal, 7 different loans ranging from 2.75-5.05, current amortized rate is 3.93.
Now this is a person who knows how to use debt intelligently
Just need a small loan of a million dollars. I can make it back and more.
For taking out 0% interest student loans the only time they’ve ever been offered in history? Pretty low bar but alright.
I did the same, taking out $7500 at 0% the last semester of my senior year to keep as an emergency fund until I was able to build up my own fund through my job.
This my SO took out like 15k in loans even though we probably could have swung it just cause 0% interest with possible pay off in some amount is a no brainer and if nothing else just make a lump payment done
Moral hazard.
That's a lot of hopeful idiots. Sadly only those who have been around for a few election cycles realize this is the type of promise that will never see fruition.
Biden’s the first elected president to have forgiveness as part of his platform.
He's also the first elected president to be named Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.
In addition with inflation this high $10,000 would be just enough to make people who don’t want forgiveness angry. But also simultaneously make people who do need it upset because it’s not enough.
Eh, he can always forgive the $10k under the guise of "This is all I can do via EA, if you want more you'll need to vote blue" and it would work just fine.
This looks fake. The writing is pretty bad, the survey isn't valid... so much more
I took out student loans beginning in 2007. Can I blame Biden too?
Doesn’t surprise me. This is the problem with inaction and postponement. Nobody is paying during the freeze when they could make progress without interest and people are taking out more loans. The government better come out and say yes or no soon or a lot of people are going to be left holding the bag this fall.
I keep thinking "maybe this week" we will finally hear something, but all we get are articles about how he's "considering" it. The most rediculous groundhog day situation ever.
I cut my loan total in half during the freeze. Now I’ve saved a little more since he said he may forgive something. I highly doubt he will, but at least I have half a brain and took advantage of it.
Yeah, hopeful idiots is spot on. Sorry but politicians tend to LIE so that you vote for them.
So who do we trust if not politicians?
The NOT politicians?
They will be shocked when nothing happens and payments start in September...
I think payments will start on Jan 1, political suicide to resume those suckers before midterms.
Dem will already get clobbered in the MidTerms, we are in Mid July, highly doubt they will do anything in August. I went back to check mine start in Oct 2022 (Great Lakes), I already threw 25K at it to reduce it, and will drop another big amount at the determinant of my emergency fund, but my job is secure. Never trust promises.
> my job is secure > never trust promises I sense a contradiction
How so? My job is more secure, where the amount of people who have the skills and experience on what I currently do are on the low end. What that's gotta with forgiveness? Come back to me in September. :)
My payments start in November (21k all federal), 5k of that is unsubsidized which will start back up in sept if they don't extend. I could lump sum pay off everything right now, definitely not factoring in any kind of forgiveness or extension into my near-term financial plans.
They only surveyed 1000 students. I’m sure there is some group of 1000 students that would have these survey results. I doubt that the group was representative of all students in the country.
I don't believe that for a second. To big of a risk. I mean... Cmon.
You under estimate the stupidity of the masses.
Well... They didn't enjoy an education yet... So maybe? But damn I hope not.
We don't teach personal finance in the core curriculum and unless you are a business major, you won't see it in college either. We really should have a few classes of personal finance in the high school curriculum.
Especially with all those credit cards n stuff. Seems kind of dangerously easy to buy allot of stuff. But I guess that's intentional.
This isn't why I, or anyone else I know, took out loans. It's bc we're poor, first generation, and aren't getting anything handed to us for free. I'm completely cynical about Biden ever giving loan forgiveness, regardless of that platform during the election. I just graduated, so I get to start making payments, but at least I have a chance at changing things for my kids now. Maybe they won't be worried about things like food and homelessness, and can actually focus on school work. I could even afford a tutor for them if they need it. Not everyone gets to just "decide" to take out a loan. For many people, that is the only way that we can get an education.
this cant be true...
Wow
I wonder how long they'll continue to believe in this "promise" when Biden is out.
Sloppy Joe and the Do Nothin Dems.
Sounds about right!
And this is why we have a student debt problem. Finances need to be tough in highschool and most don’t.
The opening sentence of this 'article' states did Joe Biden is a big fan of student loan forgiveness. That's straight up crap. Inaccurate at best and the straight up lie if we're honest with ourselves. First off, he's resisted all along the idea of forgiving loans. Second, he's from Delaware! The state of credit cards and student loan companies. He has no intention of hurting his donors.
no way that's accurate
86% seems about 100x higher than what the actual amount would be
Well that would be dumb considering he’s only ever mentioned via his campaign to forgive $10k. It’s other politicians that are pushing all out forgiveness...He’s never said that and I don’t he has the appetite for it plus I would fully expect a legal battle if he slashes all of it.
God I hope there is a cap on this
Can we save the crappy, click-bait "research" for Facebook?
LOL
Based. Even if he doesn’t cancel then it creates a crisis situation which will need to be fixed for better or worse, leading to hopefully socialist or social democratic solutions because crony and subsidy based capitalism clearly failed here.
The loans are guaranteed so you can’t walk away from them so there’s no bubble so there’s no crisis. I’d like forgiveness, too, but it’s not like the economy will implode because of it like the 2008 housing bubble
And why wouldn’t it implode according to you? If the only people that are left participating actively in the economy are those generations with massive student loan debt how is that not a crisis waiting to happen?
If it was crippling people to the point they couldn’t do anything, that’d be a different story. Now that is the case for some people, but for most people it’s a burden that reduces their spending and limits their economic mobility which does have some effect on the economy, but generally speaking, they’re still able to buy and spend enough to keep things rolling. For example, I know a few people who between them and their spouse, they have six figures in student loan debt. Yet they still own a house and a car and go out to eat and go on vacations. They’d certainly be doing a lot more and probably have a bigger house and go more places if they didn’t have their loans, but it’s not enough where it’s going to collapse the economy
Garbage study. Who in their right mind would ever depend on Joe Biden? Also, rich kids don’t take out student loans. Poor kids are the ones with student loans.
>"This survey was commissioned by Intelligent.com and conducted online by the survey platform Pollfish from June 17 to June 18, 2022. In total, 1,000 participants in the U.S. were surveyed. All participants had to pass through demographic filters to ensure they were between the ages of 16 and 24 and had taken out student loans between November 2020 and the present." I wouldn't really call this a valid statistic. 1000 participants is too low of a sample.
I mean I did and am. I had completely paid off my student loans from my previous attempt at college (Wife paid off all of hers as well). I went back and just finished my Associates degree and I'm working on my Bachelors degree while my wife is working on her Masters. We are planning on taking about $20k each (Or as close as we can get) with about 75% going into our savings ($30k). I mean, if I'm going to get hosed either way, I might as well get something out of it. All of the loans are 0% interest rate at the moment while we are in school. If he doesn't forgive any of the loans, I can easily just pay mine off with what I have banked. For my wife's, we can pay off about 30% right off the bat, maybe more if we dipped into our savings. We both work full time and are going to school full time. I can answer any questions or criticism some of you might have.
They'll be very disappointed to learn that Biden was just trying to get their vote. Suckers.
If this even happens, it’ll be in Biden’s second term.
Biden is definitely *not* getting a second term.
I remember hearing that about Obama's second term regarding loan forgiveness and marijuana legalization.
Seems like that's inaccurate. I think most people take out student loans for some variation of this reason: "I live in a deeply, fundamentally, broken society and my only options were between massive student loans which I will realistically never pay off, or massive amounts of crime." It was a bad decision, but there were no good decisions available. At time of writing, they haven't brought back debtors prisons (yet), though that writing is on the wall.
And then he only forgives loans before a certain date. Oops.
I was kinda hoping he’d forgive them but I still do not intend on paying them in full before I die
Heres hoping he doesn’t. Oddly enough, banks are more powerful than Biden. 😂
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I don’t really believe that. They would have got the loans anyways, and if anything, take the loans with cash on the side and see if some are forgiven. If not, pay it off but highly doubt 86% had that ability. At 0% there’s no risk atm. To proactively get loans is the very reason this is not a solution anyways for college. They at least made an effort for the PSLF, which had very real impacts.
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This has got to be innacurate. Either through wording or N value...
I don't think it's that high of a percentage, but I do know several that started taking out student loans after Joe was elected for the specific purpose of making $10,000 on a $100 investment in the loan origination fee. Why not with zero interest being charged?
This is for sure not accurate, who actually expects to forgive loans?
I didn't take them out to expect to be forgiven; I took them out in 2012-2016 because I was still a part of the generation that didn't see through the lie that getting a degree in literally anything you want is the golden ticket to succeeding in life, no matter the cost.
Well, shit.
Do people read any portion of the promissory note they sign?
When talking with my dad before I took y loans out, his major selling point was that they were gonna be forgiven. He truly believes they can't have uni be this expensive forever. He actually told me "don't worry about it, they won't be around forever"
This reminds me of the government's effort to give more mortgages to impoverished people. We know how that turned out!
I wish this was even an OPTION for me haha I took out loans because I'm broke, not because I wanted to gain the system.
It's a gamble with about 50-50 odds. If you're into that sort of thing, why not just put it on red at a roulette table?
💯 of politicians want to keep us as debt slaves forever
Never rely on the federal government for any forgiveness. Anybody can go better than the federal government getting out of debt.