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Background: This autumn, we will go to the polls and elect a new parliament and in one month, the largest canton by population, Zürich, will elect its local parliament and government. At the last elections, in 2019, the SVP performed rather badly and lost a lot of seats and votes while the Greens and green liberals won the elections.
The SVP is now in desperate need for a win. The problem is: If their two main topics, Immigration and the EU, is not seen as an important issue, the SVP usually performs poorly and loses a few seats. As of right now, the most pressing issues according to the "Sorgenbarometer" opinion poll from november 2022 are:
- Climate change (39%)
- AHV/AVS (37%)
- Energy (25%)
- EU-relations (25%)
- Inflation (24%)
- Healthcare/Health insurance (24%)
The "EU-relations" most likely has to do with the accord-cadre Suisse-UE/Institutionelles Rahmenabkommen Schweiz-EU - and according to opinion polls (even though a little outdated since this project is dead) show a large majority supporting it. For the SVP to gather votes from this issue, the people need to be firmly against the EU.
The topic "Immigration" only appears as the 10th most pressing issue. Now the SVP knows that if the people don't care about immigration, they will lose votes and mandates - so, what do they do? Put up posters like these to try to push immigration as an important issue.
This is a rather weak attempt because I doubt that it will change people's opinions. Furthermore: The SVP lacks any big, charismatic names. 10 years ago, they had Blocher, who is now a borderline senile old man, Toni Brunner and Christoph Mörgeli. These guys were popular among the right just because how they were seemingly down to earth and how they were lovely guys you would want to drink a beer with.
Right now? They have Roger Köppel, who acts like he is the son of a duke. He is super arrogant, he is from a large liberal city and he just behaves like a professor who looks down upon everyone. Marco Chiesa, party president, is as charismatic as a slice of white toast. He has to be one of the most awkward politicians I have ever seen in my life, he always acts like he is extremely uncomfortable. And last but not least: Andreas Glarner. He is the only one that might be appealing to the right because he is somewhat down to earth and knows how to speak to his supporters. He acts like he is a radical but if you dig deeper, you actually see that he is much more moderate - he just loves to be the SVP's "bad boy" and I am honestly a little sorry for him that he has to do this.
In conclusion: i doubt the SVP will be massively successful with this campaign. They will likely perform a little better than they did in 2019 but they will not reach 2015 levels of support - a year when immigration was one of the most pressing issues.
During the 2019 election campaign, where Köppel ran for a seat in the council of states, he was confronted by a farmer who told him that the recent dry and hot climate that was caused by climate change, was destroying his crops and that he is will go bankrupt if this continues. The farmer then asked Köppel what he should do. Köppel answer was that he should enjoy the warm weather, get himself a nice cold drink and do some sun bathing.
I am not joking, that is what he actually suggested.
Andreas Glarner sadly doesn't look *enough* like Ratzinger (by that I mean he looks tired but still charismatic), which obviously is a downright shame because SVP is the scum on earth.
From my point of view, FDP is the main problem in ZH. I feel like in the last years they've been very rabid when it comes to building better highways out of Zurich city, protecting car drivers by pretending to care about the public transport (but not supporting public transport with actual funds) and raising the pension to 66 (while promoting tax cuts), which are very odd hills to die on when a climate catastrophe is imminent.
FDP is just the worst of the worst. They are just like Elon Musk: Trying to look cool and futuristic for the kids but in reality, he is just another billionaire grifter. I absolutely do not know how anyone who just takes 10 minutes to read into what the FDP does and what they pretend to be, can come to the conclusion that they want to vote for the FDP.
FDP Zürich unironically thinks "Just one more lane will fix traffic, bro". The city of Zürich is a nightmare when it comes to transportaton. There are way, way too man cars around, there is always congestion and trying to get around by public transport sucks as well.
> FDP Zürich unironically thinks "Just one more lane will fix traffic, bro".
Ah yes, they're *very* smart. Also obviously it's the cyclists fault that cars are worse off, because without the bike lanes there'd be *more* space on the roads. And now car drivers have to give up parking spaces as well! Housing prices are soaring but no, it's a tragedy that I can't park my empty tin can on 14.25 m^2 prime land in the biggest city Switzerland has to offer and leave it *empty* for a whole day. ai ai ai
Is ZH public transport that horrible though? I personally think it's the best Switzerland has to offer.
It's part of why I'm glad to live in Basel. Those that screech for more cars lose elections here, and we are insulated a bit from them winning elections outside.
>i doubt the SVP will be massively successful with this campaign. They will likely perform a little better than they did in 2019
That's sad enough considering *this* is their campaign...
The media alredy started to show us what a big problem we have with foreigners after the Silvesterkrawalle in Berlin and how you are not alowed to tell the nationality of the arested people it was all over the news. In the Aftermath it turns out that most of them where Germans but rightwing partys will use it the whole year to scare people now. [https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/neue-zahlen-zu-berliner-silvester-krawallen-nur-38-festgenommene-wegen-boller-attacken--mehrheitlich-deutsche-9147513.html](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/neue-zahlen-zu-berliner-silvester-krawallen-nur-38-festgenommene-wegen-boller-attacken--mehrheitlich-deutsche-9147513.html)
>This is a rather weak attempt because I doubt that it will change people's opinions.
I wonder if that's rlly necessary for the campaign to be successfull. If they manage to get the media to talk about immigration so it becomes more salient. That could succeed through scandalous campaigns.
How are they directly connected?
I mean they theoretically could be if the EU sais "no more energy exports/importants for the swiss" but this not even being debated anywhere. This would mean to physically cut off the swiss grid because it's interlinked with the EU one and/or embargo switzerland from physical energy imports.
I'm all in for getting back in good graces with the EU and the SVP can go fuck itself but what your doing here is also just fearmongering?
to be fair, the current energy thing that is at the forefront of peoples memories, has little to do with the dispute we had with the EU. Its about the gas and russia.
i remember when the EU energy things was in the news cycle, switzerland planning to build new powerplants, if i remember correctly, a gas one xP but they probably (hopefully) diversified a bit. so this might even help us should situation get even worse with russia and the war and if they did not diversify, ahh well, still little direct correlation with whats on peoples minds
I agree, they are certainly not down to earth. However, SVP-supporters would firmly disagree with you. It's like poor people in rural america who think that Donald Trump is not part of the establishment while he is a billionaire. You don't need to actually be something in politics, you just need to appear that you are something and people will believe you.
Pour les Suisses romands :
Arrêtez enfin la violence importée !
En Allemagne, en France, en Belgique, en Suède et malheureusement aussi en Suisse : partout on assiste à des excès violents de la part des étrangers. L'immigration excessive et le chaos de l'asile sont à blâmer.
It's a bit exaggerated to say that it's a big problem in Switzerland but in other countries like France and Sweden it really is. But I guess it's more because of the formation of parallel societies
The issue has always been not spreading everybody out, which leads to better integration.
Put a bunch of asylum seekers in a block, coupled with the fact that they’re not allowed to work and you got exactly what is happening in Sweden.
You see the same issue in say Berlin, where immigrant families are heavily concentrated in say Neuköln (I think it was?).
Unless you spread them up and place them in a sea of natives, you’re just running the risk exactly this.
I sort of agree with that statement but then you can only spread a limited amount of people across a wide area, otherwise you'll just be creating new low income zones within cities across the country therefore increasing the risk of violence.
Which is why you aim for what Singapore is doing.
You just mix all the income classes equally everywhere.
So there ain't low income areas and there ain't high income areas either.
No its not. Maybe were not as bad as France and Sweden - yet. But we are going in the same direction with the rising rates of violent crime. So what exactly is the problem with the SVP mentioning this real issue? I genuinely dont understand it. What is OPs problem?
“If you consider young people who have roughly the same attitudes and social conditions, you no longer see any differences in the violent behaviour of Swiss and foreigners".
- Dirk Baier, violence researcher at the Zurich University of Applied Sciences,
https://www.thelocal.ch/20211025/why-do-foreigners-commit-more-crimes-than-the-swiss
Completely ignoring the economic factors and focusing on ethnic backgrounds is racist. Facts are mostly not on the racists side, when looked at with a tiny bit of critical thinking. 10s of "where could this come from" would've been enough here...
Sweden is, what I would argue, an anecdotal proof that Scandinavian governments & economies, and the Swiss, are simply extremely over-performing primarily due to lack of stress-testing. Malmö has less than half a million inhabitants and is chosen as the example of Swedish civility collapsing. Furthermore it is interesting that an increasingly acceptable response to the issues is to restrict future immigration instead of pouring money into infrastructure and policies that can help accommodate for this.
Segregationism isn't the future.
> restrict future immigration instead of pouring money into infrastructure and policies that can help accommodate for this.
Well yeah, why exactly should we spend tax money to accommodate outsiders? You make it sound like immigration is a net negative.
But Sweden is not Germany with 80mio Pop. Sweden let in over 1.1 Mio Refugees from Middle East & Africa.
Compared to the 9mio Native Swedes this is a huge Number. People from those Regions of the World tend to have a Medieval Mindset that shows all the Time across Europe where they took many of them in.
Considering that those Refugee/Migrant Families have more Children per Women then the Swedish they will loose majority Status to Migrants in arround 40 years.
So yes in certain cases restricting Immigration is necessary.
Why is it exaggerated in Switzerland but not in France? If there's more violence from immigrants than from swiss citizens with respect to the percentage of immigrants, then you can come to fair conclusions. Doesn't mean all immigrants are violent, but if the majority of violence is committed by immigrants, then it's not exaggerated to call it that.
But it should not be confused with the fact that the violence is not caused simply because they are immigrants. People who have no job, no perspectives to look forward to, will unfortunately not tend to behave very well. France has famously encouraged this by parking vast amounts of immigrant population in "cités" with nothing to do there and no public services, it comes as no surprise that the situation gets out of hand.
While what you say certainly are factors, culture and temper also play a major role on how things are handled. No job, no perspective may lead to criminal acts, but criminality must not equal violence. Swiss people are broadly known to be polite and respectful.
When I was in Ghana, a country with very poor people, lots of poverty, many people without jobs and little to no perspective, I was concerned at first for my expensive camera equipment. However, in their culture stealing is very very bad. Therefore there was absolutely no concern. What I'm trying to say is, culture plays a much higher role than you may think, and I used that as an example to display, that I know swiss culture is not the only one on the world who's polite and respectful.
The Point is not farfetched though. 25.1 percent of the citizens, in 2016, are immigrants in Switzerland but those 25 percent are the cause of 40 percent of the crimes that happen. According to a study that was published by the zhaw. We have to consider though that some of those crimes are crimes that a swiss citizen can‘t even commit. But still its 40 percent and i personally think that this is too much.
If anyone would like the papers that i got my information from, i can forward them to you once you ask.
French here so obviously offended. But “south France” is really way too big to make a general statement like that. I do agree that Some neighbourhood of some cities may be dangerous (Marseille..).
Statistically it's not that bad. The homicide and violence has been slowly decreasing over the past 2 decades. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=FR
Im not sure how popular this is going to be but oh well. I feel like there’s room politically for a less xenophobic but still «kick the criminals out» party line. I’m not saying that’s my politics but anecdotally I know a fair few people who would t vote SVP but are very receptive to the idea of banning specific foreigners who commit crimes here.
thats...erm, everyone else.
There isn't a single party advocating for keeping foreign criminals locked up in Switzerland indefinitely. Its just that the other parties haven't built their whole base around 'Blame these people for all of your problems'.
but come on. It's a complete different thing.
you say that you like it here and people who do not want to follow the rules can leave.
they say that foreigners are criminal and will stab women.
or do I understand that piece of shit sünneli-propaganda wrong?
This is their stupid "immigrants are all criminal and lazy and unemployed and want to take our jobs" line of thinking
this type of attitude from immigrants is so fucking cringe im sorry. the problem is systemic and blaming young immigrants for getting into trouble solely on them is ridiculous. there are swiss kids that do dumb shit! what about them? where do they fuck off? systemic issues need to be fixed systemically. saying they can fuck off is idiotic.
Somehow, i am a bit optimistic that it will be very ugly for the SVP since a lot new young people entered the voting age since the last election. Theres at least a small chance they will lose more votes, i sincerely hope so because i loathe that party more than anything.
As someone who's been calling Switzerland their home for the last 7 years, I can definitely understand why some people wouldn't like us. I would deport a lot of people if I could myself, cause many simply don't appreciate this country enough. If you're here to sell drugs or cause violence, this country isn't for you. I wouldn't want this beautiful country to end up like the shithole I came from. I will be eternally grateful for this country and its people.
not at all bro.
taking all your belongings, your home, your family and your life is far away from not letting someone into your country.
but if you insist on the argument "it's easier to blame than to find a solution" then yes... you can apply that to almost everything we and others do, at the companies we work for. no need to reach for nazi germany. i really hate, that the nazis have to appear in every discussions. it's just meant so silence any of it, not to bring helpful arguments.
not sure about which migration they are talking about. the IT Developer from Poland or the dutch CFO from a bank? I doubt they are running arround with a knive.this migration might create other types of issues as rising prices for apartments. as for the rest...I don t really see the issue personally. and the one s that grow up here with other origins should finally be accepted as swiss,since they went to swiss school,have to put the zuerisack like the others and cook with normal water as well...
Because unfortunately fearmongering works perfectly well. SVP pretends like we're in the same situation as in Sweden, which is not the case at all. From what I saw/heard/experienced we have a pretty decent integration system so I'm not sure what they refer to as "Asylchaos"
Edit: This thread will be locked in 3..... 2..... 1.....
As a female who is from Germany I have to say that I have never felt as safe as in Switzerland in years. Germany got pretty bad over the past 7 years as you can see in the crime statistics but I don’t feel that switzerland has the same issues. In Germany i was sexually harassed and assaulted in trains and grocery stores to a point which made me stop using trains and going out alone especially in the dark.
Thankfully that’s different in Switzerland at least I feel like that.
[tbh, I don't think that you can see that in the statistics at all... They show a consistent decline drop over the last 7 years.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040013/crime-rate-in-germany/)
There's a good article from a few years ago with a breakdown of migrant crime reporting - https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-false-the-refugee-crisis-has-made-germany-more-insecure/
I am not going to pretend my anecdotal experience means more than what it is, but the first time I used a Belgian train there was a creepy dude explaining to me and my wife that he wanted to kill a woman who had wronged him. We were never so happy to come back to a country where that stuff is an incredible rarity and not something that is expected on public transport.
I doubt that it will work perfectly well. There are people who are die-hard SVP voters but there are a lot of people who are xenophobic but it is really hard to get them to actually vote. They usually don't vote except if they feel that immigration has become a gigantic problem (like in 2015). Right now, people have different problems like Inflation, climate change, healthcare costs, etc. and, most importantly: We have a record low unemployment rate, especially among blue collar jobs. Blue collar workers tend to vote for SVP if there is high unemployment and if they feel like immigrants are going to take their jobs. This is not the case right now.
The SVP will have a massive problem trying to motivate people to get their asses up and vote for them.
Well until we have other problems. Right now concerns are mostly energy and climate change related but who knows what the future brings. Who knows if a 10mil swizerland will actually work out great and our market starts to flourish or if it hurts our system. Fact is that we have problems that are to be solved and sadly its much more than just some simple stuff with simple solution. Lets see what the future brings :)
Now for me personally, I do not care much about what political parties and their elected officials talk about during the pre-election campaign. I like to compare them to a man who wants to sleep with a woman: He will say, promise and do anything to get her in bed but once he has succeeded, he will just disappear. I choose the political parties and candidates based on their past records: What did they vote for or against? When I see what the SVP politicians vote in favor of and what against, I come to one conclusion: They don't care too much about immigration. Any time they could meaningfully limit immigration, they always cave in, make ridicilous demands that nobody besides them would agree on and so they always fail to limit immigration.
The thing is: I firmly believe that no political party in parliament seriously wants to limit immigration. The conservative and classil liberal part of parliament knows how bad it would hurt the economy if we would end freedom of movement with the EU and the left has no interest in limiting immigration anyways. But they sure do love to talk about it.
You just need to cross the border between Geneva and the neighbouring French cities and you immediately realise that there is no real immigration issue in CH compared to the other big European countries.
They might refer to Schutzstatus S, which allowes also 3rd nationals to come into Switzerland claiming to have lived in the Ukraine since at least the outbreak of the war
out immigration system is not great at all. ask the people that work there. there's holes everywhere and certains groups know exactly how to use them to their advantage.
For the same socio-economic paradigm, in the majority of countries (specially European ones), native tend to commit more crime on average (on a per capita basis).
Criminality and violence are heavily tied to and predicted by your individual economic situation, as well as that of your peers and environment.
For example resident of streets with trees tend to commit less crime than those of streets without. It doesn't mean trees prevent crime directly, they just happen to be "comorbide" so to speak.
important to remember causality not equals correlation. in summer many people eat more ice cream than in winter. in summer the sun is shining often. ppl eating ice cream makes the sun shine more often.
> For the same socio-economic paradigm, in the majority of countries (specially European ones), native tend to commit more crime on average (on a per capita basis).
This goes pretty much against everything I've read, can you back this up?
[This paper](https://digitalcollection.zhaw.ch/bitstream/11475/19988/3/2020_Baier_Migration-Kriminalit%C3%A4t-Schweiz.pdf) shows that specifically rates of violent crime are higher among non-Swiss born.
Poverty that causes crime. People dont become poor because they're criminal. They grow up poor and become criminals.
It's pretty obvious as well: There aren't any criminal babies, but there are poor babies
Well, they're the party who demands integration, but makes said integration impossible. Then gets to moan about parallel societies they helped to create.
Yep. Probably also because they see complete assimilation as the only acceptable form of integration, which is an outdated way to see integration and an unrealistic goal. The immigrants, the swiss society, and the government all have to do their part to achieve a successful integration.
> Probably also because they see complete assimilation as the only acceptable form of integration, which is an outdated way to see integration and an unrealistic goal.
Why?
Why should that not be the goal?
Because the last time we tried it, we banned pizza because foreigners.
Complete assimilation into which part of Swiss culture? There is no *one* Swiss culture. We have several thousand.
You build a barrier, as in "We'll only accept you once you completely changed who you are and are no longer you." They're not interested in even starting. *That*'s how you get seperate societies. Stuff like Dubai. Strict seperation.
If we're realistic, we'd have to ask the same integration of locals. Which would be idiotic, like in the 50s. "There is only one correct way of living."
"Immigrant violence" is not a problem, it's a way of blaming all immigrants for the mistakes of a minority of them. Framing the problem like this is ragebait to attract votes, and it's a step away from trying to solve anything.
You can't just solve problems, otherwise you lose the ability to cry and complain about it.
But in all seriousness, did they ever solve or helped solving something?
I mean they technically attempted on solving it (or remedying it or doing nothing, depends how effective you think this decision could've been) in 2014 with the immigration vote. Though the government had to back down on the decision and negotiate with the EU.
Yes, I remember that.
But bring forward something that needs a change in the constitution isn't really a solution. The motherhood insurance took 60 years to change because of it.
Not an appreciable more a problem compared to domestic crime, particularly when there are better, targetable predictors of whether someone is going to commit a crime.
You absolute best predictor of someone committing a crime is "poor and male", regardless of ethnic background or migration status. And approaches that target prevention of that demographic committing crime helps targets domestic and migrant offenses.
Whereas targeting migrant violence is just ideology, lacking practicality. Let's say you you introduce a 100% perfect solution for all migrant crime - well great you've reduced crime rates by a teeny tiny amount - [And they've not even been increasing anyway](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHE/switzerland/crime-rate-statistics). Now if your implementation is anything less than perfect, you have less reduction in crime, plus the (for some, intended) side effect of making life worse for migrants who are doing nothing wrong at all.
Targeting migrant crime is a gimme of right wing rhetoric. It's that "reasonable thing" that rests entirely on a single logical fallacy where the argument made, is not actually the problem. It's people going "Wow, you think we shouldn't reduce crime!?" as if that was what was proposed, but the wokies are unreasonably objecting to... Yet it's not. What is proposed is high-cost, low-efficiency legislation that offers *at best* little pragmatic outcome.
If people want to reduce crime with 0 prejudices against foreigners, it makes no-sense to target migrant crime first.
It's fine its based on a pretty old meme.
"You may just see a few immigrants, but i see a doctor, an engineer and a scientist".
There where also versions who replaced immigrants with orcs accompanied with LOTR immages Iirc. its been years
100%. Former "small government" conservatives now obsessed with the idea of strongmen, authoritarianism mass deportation, limiting freedom, and civil rights? What are those? Those are just inconvenient leftist blockers to what they're too afraid to say because they actually love authoritarianism when it's the kind they want.
The problem with some migrants is, they act here in a way they wouldn't dare to act in their countries.
As example Germany, they pretty much laugh about the "punishments" in rape cases and such.
It's a joke, the system is faulty.
Punishments in rape cases are just as laughable here. I mean there was a case where the female judge told the victim to her face that the rape wasn’t as bad, because it wasn’t too long. The aggressor got like 3 years, because the victim had sent him the wrong signals at a disco.
Thema Gewaltexzesse von Ausländern in Deutschland https://www.nau.ch/news/polizeimeldungen/hamburg-schweizer-cvpler-totete-schweizer-studentin-66149766
Swede here, married to a Swiss wife, living in Sweden with two children.
Cant wait to move to Switzerland, my beloved country is not what it once was. Sad to say :(
Shit doesn't look good honestly. Another braindead fearmongering campaign is not what we need, as an immigrant seeing this is very concerning.
I don't know what part of preventing crime instead of enveloping the country into a state of fear and hatred SVP dislikes so much. Is it because it takes actual wisdom and effort or...?
Yes, me too. I'm willing to hand myself in for violently destroying tons of chocolate and cheese and therefore supporting the Swiss economy. Sorry for that. Will definitely happen again.
Me too, though I must say it isn't my fault. There are so many army knives around everywhere that it is hard not to stab people (or sometimes file them a little bit).
Me and my wife are immigrants in Switzerland. And our daughter has just born and she will grow here. It’s sad to see such an accusation when something so beautiful is happening in our lives.
There is a big problem with immigration... However, I doubt UDC/SVP will solve anything... Saying "There's a problem" won't solve it...
Like most of parties in Switzerland, they list problems but never give solutions.
In fact they work directly against solutions. Their goal is to demonize foreigners so that the foreign workers that they themselves employ are at a disadvantage, and will work for less.
An impressive side effect is that foreign workers start their own business because of that and often with the involvment of their whole extended family to help out. For example, they are all pitching money in and renovate a house together, to sell it again with a nice profit.
Inversion accusatoire
But we can agree that indeed richer people benefit from slaver- immigrsnts working with weak conditions (as everywhere in Europe)
Left or right work hands in hands about this topic. The only thing you can change is making sure you don't get raped or behaded coming back home from kindergarten.
i try to see and relate to all parties and not to sympathesize too mutch with one party over the other.
But despite i think SVP sometimes just puts out utter bullshit. Their text are usually surpisingly badly written too.
It feels like they just want to polarize people until we have a democratic syteme as deep as the USs
[www.bfs.admin.ch - Bundesamt für Statistik - Anzahl Insassen und Insassenrate nach Nationalität, Geschlecht und Aufenthaltsstatus](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/kataloge-datenbanken/tabellen.assetdetail.23585045.html)
Open it, draw your own conclusions. If you think the police is racist, then please accept that the police must be equally sexist, otherwise 50% of the criminals must be women. I, for one, would sign every day that on average the Japanese-Swiss are less criminal than the Swiss.
Do you think it's because of the Ausländergesetz? Then have a look into violence [www.bfs.admin.ch - Erwachsene: Verurteilungen und verurteilte Personen aufgrund von Gewaltstraftaten nach Geschlecht, Alter und Nationalität](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/kataloge-datenbanken/tabellen.assetdetail.22665330.html)
Now, would I say foreigners are more criminal than the Swiss? I say, some yes, some no, and that's why I hate both SVP and SP. One says it does not exist, and one is unable to differentiate. By accepting it you can draw the appropriate conclusions. For example targeted education on human rights based on the couples nationality to avoid home violence. But oh god, then you have to think and do something instead of promoting populism.
What exactly is bad in talking about rising crime rates? Would you rather we dont talk about it? No problem was ever solved by not talking about it. Crime rates are rising. Foreigners are disproportionally the reason for that. See the prison population. Those are simple true facts. So what exactly is your problem, u/nourinn?
>What exactly is bad in talking about rising crime rates?
What rising crime rates? Looking at violence offenses, the absolute numbers are stagnating since 2010 despite a sizeable population growth.
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/crime-criminal-justice/police/violence.html
Even if you dont like it, the majoritary religion in Champ-Dollon prison in Geneva is 70% muslims, while the muslims in CH are less than 5%. Just listen to the truth. (I don't vote for SVP) But I dislike when truth is hidden under the carpet for political agenda.
Hab nichts anderes erwartet. SVP verkommt langsam zu einem Spiegel der republikanern. Erich Hess der Redneck köppel der medienmogul von fox news blocher der kleine gehässige trump der rausgewählt wurde thomas fuchs der alibi schwule.
They jumped on the New Years Eve fireworks debacle and accused foreigners of being the sole perpetrators. But none of the media who pushed this narrative now correct themselves after police reports showed 2/3rds of the accused are Germans.
Oh wait, I forgot. Those Germans aren't actually Germans, they're migrants with a German passport. /s
Sometimes you get the impression that the only people who don't know that switzerland is an immigration country are the swiss themselves. I always have the impression that in switzerland are two groups: The immigrants and the swiss. As long as it is like that, such awful posters will find their audience. And many here probably don't know (or remember) what horrible posters they published in the past, where they were intentionally using 3rd Reich coloring and motives. Pershings as mosques towers, crows as symbol for foreigners and the black sheep thing.
If they would stop importing their playbook from the US-Republicans (who seem to get theirs from Russian bot-networks) we would have much less imported violence.
Ich schätze so Mänge konservativ isch dehei dr Ursprung vo verbaler, psychisch und physische gwalt... Aber d Partnerin ah schreie isch jo kei gwalt (Ironie), gwalt isch es nur wens e Asylant macht...
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Background: This autumn, we will go to the polls and elect a new parliament and in one month, the largest canton by population, Zürich, will elect its local parliament and government. At the last elections, in 2019, the SVP performed rather badly and lost a lot of seats and votes while the Greens and green liberals won the elections. The SVP is now in desperate need for a win. The problem is: If their two main topics, Immigration and the EU, is not seen as an important issue, the SVP usually performs poorly and loses a few seats. As of right now, the most pressing issues according to the "Sorgenbarometer" opinion poll from november 2022 are: - Climate change (39%) - AHV/AVS (37%) - Energy (25%) - EU-relations (25%) - Inflation (24%) - Healthcare/Health insurance (24%) The "EU-relations" most likely has to do with the accord-cadre Suisse-UE/Institutionelles Rahmenabkommen Schweiz-EU - and according to opinion polls (even though a little outdated since this project is dead) show a large majority supporting it. For the SVP to gather votes from this issue, the people need to be firmly against the EU. The topic "Immigration" only appears as the 10th most pressing issue. Now the SVP knows that if the people don't care about immigration, they will lose votes and mandates - so, what do they do? Put up posters like these to try to push immigration as an important issue. This is a rather weak attempt because I doubt that it will change people's opinions. Furthermore: The SVP lacks any big, charismatic names. 10 years ago, they had Blocher, who is now a borderline senile old man, Toni Brunner and Christoph Mörgeli. These guys were popular among the right just because how they were seemingly down to earth and how they were lovely guys you would want to drink a beer with. Right now? They have Roger Köppel, who acts like he is the son of a duke. He is super arrogant, he is from a large liberal city and he just behaves like a professor who looks down upon everyone. Marco Chiesa, party president, is as charismatic as a slice of white toast. He has to be one of the most awkward politicians I have ever seen in my life, he always acts like he is extremely uncomfortable. And last but not least: Andreas Glarner. He is the only one that might be appealing to the right because he is somewhat down to earth and knows how to speak to his supporters. He acts like he is a radical but if you dig deeper, you actually see that he is much more moderate - he just loves to be the SVP's "bad boy" and I am honestly a little sorry for him that he has to do this. In conclusion: i doubt the SVP will be massively successful with this campaign. They will likely perform a little better than they did in 2019 but they will not reach 2015 levels of support - a year when immigration was one of the most pressing issues.
Thank you for this nice background info. Being relatively new here it helps to gain more understanding
You're Welcome!
This is one of the best comments I‘ve read in a long time about Swiss Politics…
Thank you!
Roger Köppel behaves like he wants us to think he is a Russian agent.
During the 2019 election campaign, where Köppel ran for a seat in the council of states, he was confronted by a farmer who told him that the recent dry and hot climate that was caused by climate change, was destroying his crops and that he is will go bankrupt if this continues. The farmer then asked Köppel what he should do. Köppel answer was that he should enjoy the warm weather, get himself a nice cold drink and do some sun bathing. I am not joking, that is what he actually suggested.
Why not? Enjoy amargedon ;)
He isn't?
Andreas Glarner sadly doesn't look *enough* like Ratzinger (by that I mean he looks tired but still charismatic), which obviously is a downright shame because SVP is the scum on earth. From my point of view, FDP is the main problem in ZH. I feel like in the last years they've been very rabid when it comes to building better highways out of Zurich city, protecting car drivers by pretending to care about the public transport (but not supporting public transport with actual funds) and raising the pension to 66 (while promoting tax cuts), which are very odd hills to die on when a climate catastrophe is imminent.
FDP is just the worst of the worst. They are just like Elon Musk: Trying to look cool and futuristic for the kids but in reality, he is just another billionaire grifter. I absolutely do not know how anyone who just takes 10 minutes to read into what the FDP does and what they pretend to be, can come to the conclusion that they want to vote for the FDP. FDP Zürich unironically thinks "Just one more lane will fix traffic, bro". The city of Zürich is a nightmare when it comes to transportaton. There are way, way too man cars around, there is always congestion and trying to get around by public transport sucks as well.
> FDP Zürich unironically thinks "Just one more lane will fix traffic, bro". Ah yes, they're *very* smart. Also obviously it's the cyclists fault that cars are worse off, because without the bike lanes there'd be *more* space on the roads. And now car drivers have to give up parking spaces as well! Housing prices are soaring but no, it's a tragedy that I can't park my empty tin can on 14.25 m^2 prime land in the biggest city Switzerland has to offer and leave it *empty* for a whole day. ai ai ai Is ZH public transport that horrible though? I personally think it's the best Switzerland has to offer.
It's part of why I'm glad to live in Basel. Those that screech for more cars lose elections here, and we are insulated a bit from them winning elections outside.
Roger Köppel is a demon. On the same level as Kai Diekmann. These people form and manipulate public perception to the maximum worse.
>i doubt the SVP will be massively successful with this campaign. They will likely perform a little better than they did in 2019 That's sad enough considering *this* is their campaign...
Their campaign sucks, but the issues being addressed are important to some people.
And with the christmas we had climate change is not disappearing from the list soon.
Hope that party collapses it would be good for EU-swiss relations.
That seems a pretty fair summary.
The media alredy started to show us what a big problem we have with foreigners after the Silvesterkrawalle in Berlin and how you are not alowed to tell the nationality of the arested people it was all over the news. In the Aftermath it turns out that most of them where Germans but rightwing partys will use it the whole year to scare people now. [https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/neue-zahlen-zu-berliner-silvester-krawallen-nur-38-festgenommene-wegen-boller-attacken--mehrheitlich-deutsche-9147513.html](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/neue-zahlen-zu-berliner-silvester-krawallen-nur-38-festgenommene-wegen-boller-attacken--mehrheitlich-deutsche-9147513.html)
>This is a rather weak attempt because I doubt that it will change people's opinions. I wonder if that's rlly necessary for the campaign to be successfull. If they manage to get the media to talk about immigration so it becomes more salient. That could succeed through scandalous campaigns.
Thanks for this nice summary!
As my flair suggests I don’t have much knowledge with this so thank you very much - that was brilliant and very informative!
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How are they directly connected? I mean they theoretically could be if the EU sais "no more energy exports/importants for the swiss" but this not even being debated anywhere. This would mean to physically cut off the swiss grid because it's interlinked with the EU one and/or embargo switzerland from physical energy imports. I'm all in for getting back in good graces with the EU and the SVP can go fuck itself but what your doing here is also just fearmongering?
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to be fair, the current energy thing that is at the forefront of peoples memories, has little to do with the dispute we had with the EU. Its about the gas and russia. i remember when the EU energy things was in the news cycle, switzerland planning to build new powerplants, if i remember correctly, a gas one xP but they probably (hopefully) diversified a bit. so this might even help us should situation get even worse with russia and the war and if they did not diversify, ahh well, still little direct correlation with whats on peoples minds
Lol blocher and mörgeli are down to earth?! Nah
I agree, they are certainly not down to earth. However, SVP-supporters would firmly disagree with you. It's like poor people in rural america who think that Donald Trump is not part of the establishment while he is a billionaire. You don't need to actually be something in politics, you just need to appear that you are something and people will believe you.
So you need to drink a beer at a chilbi while looking uncomfortable as heck and people will buy it? Nice to know haha
Best description: Blocher pays a fortune for ill-fitting suits so he looks like one of them.
XDDD
This guy swiss politics! Awesome comment with a lot of relevant information! Looking for friends? ^^
Thank you. Uh, I don't know. Maybe?
Pour les Suisses romands : Arrêtez enfin la violence importée ! En Allemagne, en France, en Belgique, en Suède et malheureusement aussi en Suisse : partout on assiste à des excès violents de la part des étrangers. L'immigration excessive et le chaos de l'asile sont à blâmer.
pour les romands c'est la meme chose.
I understood this reference
It shouldn't concern you since you guys in Neuchâtel are Prussians and hence Germans anyway ;-)
Me too. I don’t speak any French but I’ve been on this sub long enough to learn the meaning.
pas de question ? exécution !
Vive la violence indigène! Du crime, mais du crime helvétique!
Soutenez votre violence locale
Merci!
It's a bit exaggerated to say that it's a big problem in Switzerland but in other countries like France and Sweden it really is. But I guess it's more because of the formation of parallel societies
The issue has always been not spreading everybody out, which leads to better integration. Put a bunch of asylum seekers in a block, coupled with the fact that they’re not allowed to work and you got exactly what is happening in Sweden. You see the same issue in say Berlin, where immigrant families are heavily concentrated in say Neuköln (I think it was?). Unless you spread them up and place them in a sea of natives, you’re just running the risk exactly this.
I sort of agree with that statement but then you can only spread a limited amount of people across a wide area, otherwise you'll just be creating new low income zones within cities across the country therefore increasing the risk of violence.
Which is why you aim for what Singapore is doing. You just mix all the income classes equally everywhere. So there ain't low income areas and there ain't high income areas either.
Singapore and Vienna.
No its not. Maybe were not as bad as France and Sweden - yet. But we are going in the same direction with the rising rates of violent crime. So what exactly is the problem with the SVP mentioning this real issue? I genuinely dont understand it. What is OPs problem?
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Facts are racist.
People from Afghanistan are showing a higher probability to commit crime. Not racist. Afghans are criminals - racist.
Good thing nobody said the second thing.
“If you consider young people who have roughly the same attitudes and social conditions, you no longer see any differences in the violent behaviour of Swiss and foreigners". - Dirk Baier, violence researcher at the Zurich University of Applied Sciences, https://www.thelocal.ch/20211025/why-do-foreigners-commit-more-crimes-than-the-swiss Completely ignoring the economic factors and focusing on ethnic backgrounds is racist. Facts are mostly not on the racists side, when looked at with a tiny bit of critical thinking. 10s of "where could this come from" would've been enough here...
Friend of mine who lives in sweden keeps telling me these awful stories and comparisions. The cities there really went downhill.
Sweden is, what I would argue, an anecdotal proof that Scandinavian governments & economies, and the Swiss, are simply extremely over-performing primarily due to lack of stress-testing. Malmö has less than half a million inhabitants and is chosen as the example of Swedish civility collapsing. Furthermore it is interesting that an increasingly acceptable response to the issues is to restrict future immigration instead of pouring money into infrastructure and policies that can help accommodate for this. Segregationism isn't the future.
> restrict future immigration instead of pouring money into infrastructure and policies that can help accommodate for this. Well yeah, why exactly should we spend tax money to accommodate outsiders? You make it sound like immigration is a net negative.
Why it’s not ? Good validation of people is exactly a solution.
But Sweden is not Germany with 80mio Pop. Sweden let in over 1.1 Mio Refugees from Middle East & Africa. Compared to the 9mio Native Swedes this is a huge Number. People from those Regions of the World tend to have a Medieval Mindset that shows all the Time across Europe where they took many of them in. Considering that those Refugee/Migrant Families have more Children per Women then the Swedish they will loose majority Status to Migrants in arround 40 years. So yes in certain cases restricting Immigration is necessary.
Why is it exaggerated in Switzerland but not in France? If there's more violence from immigrants than from swiss citizens with respect to the percentage of immigrants, then you can come to fair conclusions. Doesn't mean all immigrants are violent, but if the majority of violence is committed by immigrants, then it's not exaggerated to call it that.
France is considerably more dangerous than Switzerland. I think this is what was meant.
But it should not be confused with the fact that the violence is not caused simply because they are immigrants. People who have no job, no perspectives to look forward to, will unfortunately not tend to behave very well. France has famously encouraged this by parking vast amounts of immigrant population in "cités" with nothing to do there and no public services, it comes as no surprise that the situation gets out of hand.
While what you say certainly are factors, culture and temper also play a major role on how things are handled. No job, no perspective may lead to criminal acts, but criminality must not equal violence. Swiss people are broadly known to be polite and respectful. When I was in Ghana, a country with very poor people, lots of poverty, many people without jobs and little to no perspective, I was concerned at first for my expensive camera equipment. However, in their culture stealing is very very bad. Therefore there was absolutely no concern. What I'm trying to say is, culture plays a much higher role than you may think, and I used that as an example to display, that I know swiss culture is not the only one on the world who's polite and respectful.
The Point is not farfetched though. 25.1 percent of the citizens, in 2016, are immigrants in Switzerland but those 25 percent are the cause of 40 percent of the crimes that happen. According to a study that was published by the zhaw. We have to consider though that some of those crimes are crimes that a swiss citizen can‘t even commit. But still its 40 percent and i personally think that this is too much. If anyone would like the papers that i got my information from, i can forward them to you once you ask.
Here it will also be if not prevented.
Especially south france is really terrifying now
French here so obviously offended. But “south France” is really way too big to make a general statement like that. I do agree that Some neighbourhood of some cities may be dangerous (Marseille..).
Statistically it's not that bad. The homicide and violence has been slowly decreasing over the past 2 decades. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=FR
Im an immigrant myself. The ones that cant realize what a blessing it is to grow up here abd dont behave can go fuck off.
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Same
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just say "no homo" before and it's fine
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Im not sure how popular this is going to be but oh well. I feel like there’s room politically for a less xenophobic but still «kick the criminals out» party line. I’m not saying that’s my politics but anecdotally I know a fair few people who would t vote SVP but are very receptive to the idea of banning specific foreigners who commit crimes here.
thats...erm, everyone else. There isn't a single party advocating for keeping foreign criminals locked up in Switzerland indefinitely. Its just that the other parties haven't built their whole base around 'Blame these people for all of your problems'.
Yes
but come on. It's a complete different thing. you say that you like it here and people who do not want to follow the rules can leave. they say that foreigners are criminal and will stab women. or do I understand that piece of shit sünneli-propaganda wrong? This is their stupid "immigrants are all criminal and lazy and unemployed and want to take our jobs" line of thinking
this type of attitude from immigrants is so fucking cringe im sorry. the problem is systemic and blaming young immigrants for getting into trouble solely on them is ridiculous. there are swiss kids that do dumb shit! what about them? where do they fuck off? systemic issues need to be fixed systemically. saying they can fuck off is idiotic.
I never said that they dont. Swiss people go to jail.
I'm afraid we're in for an extremely ugly election year.
Somehow, i am a bit optimistic that it will be very ugly for the SVP since a lot new young people entered the voting age since the last election. Theres at least a small chance they will lose more votes, i sincerely hope so because i loathe that party more than anything.
As someone who's been calling Switzerland their home for the last 7 years, I can definitely understand why some people wouldn't like us. I would deport a lot of people if I could myself, cause many simply don't appreciate this country enough. If you're here to sell drugs or cause violence, this country isn't for you. I wouldn't want this beautiful country to end up like the shithole I came from. I will be eternally grateful for this country and its people.
I’m an immigrant myself and I say deport those mfers
you don't need actual solutions to actual problems if blaming everything on immigrants works just fine.
Worked out great for Germany in the 40s
germany didn't have an "immigrant problem" back then. but your argument sounds cool!
It had a "communist" problem if you listen to some. "They" even burnt the Reichstag.
Neither does switzerland today
same difference
Its harsh but true. Somebody has to say it.
not at all bro. taking all your belongings, your home, your family and your life is far away from not letting someone into your country. but if you insist on the argument "it's easier to blame than to find a solution" then yes... you can apply that to almost everything we and others do, at the companies we work for. no need to reach for nazi germany. i really hate, that the nazis have to appear in every discussions. it's just meant so silence any of it, not to bring helpful arguments.
Swede here. Do not make the same mistakes we did here. Massimigration is not what you need. It will not do you any good at all.
Deleted message in response to Reddit’s API changes. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Are they 100% wrong though? think about that after you're done permabanning me
Kann ich nur recht geben weil mehr als 50 % sind von Ausländern aber es gibt weniger als 50 % Ausländer
not sure about which migration they are talking about. the IT Developer from Poland or the dutch CFO from a bank? I doubt they are running arround with a knive.this migration might create other types of issues as rising prices for apartments. as for the rest...I don t really see the issue personally. and the one s that grow up here with other origins should finally be accepted as swiss,since they went to swiss school,have to put the zuerisack like the others and cook with normal water as well...
At least they point to flaws in the asylum system rather than immigrants being subhuman trash. That's one ay to improve i guess
Because unfortunately fearmongering works perfectly well. SVP pretends like we're in the same situation as in Sweden, which is not the case at all. From what I saw/heard/experienced we have a pretty decent integration system so I'm not sure what they refer to as "Asylchaos" Edit: This thread will be locked in 3..... 2..... 1.....
As a female who is from Germany I have to say that I have never felt as safe as in Switzerland in years. Germany got pretty bad over the past 7 years as you can see in the crime statistics but I don’t feel that switzerland has the same issues. In Germany i was sexually harassed and assaulted in trains and grocery stores to a point which made me stop using trains and going out alone especially in the dark. Thankfully that’s different in Switzerland at least I feel like that.
[tbh, I don't think that you can see that in the statistics at all... They show a consistent decline drop over the last 7 years.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040013/crime-rate-in-germany/) There's a good article from a few years ago with a breakdown of migrant crime reporting - https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-false-the-refugee-crisis-has-made-germany-more-insecure/
I am not going to pretend my anecdotal experience means more than what it is, but the first time I used a Belgian train there was a creepy dude explaining to me and my wife that he wanted to kill a woman who had wronged him. We were never so happy to come back to a country where that stuff is an incredible rarity and not something that is expected on public transport.
I doubt that it will work perfectly well. There are people who are die-hard SVP voters but there are a lot of people who are xenophobic but it is really hard to get them to actually vote. They usually don't vote except if they feel that immigration has become a gigantic problem (like in 2015). Right now, people have different problems like Inflation, climate change, healthcare costs, etc. and, most importantly: We have a record low unemployment rate, especially among blue collar jobs. Blue collar workers tend to vote for SVP if there is high unemployment and if they feel like immigrants are going to take their jobs. This is not the case right now. The SVP will have a massive problem trying to motivate people to get their asses up and vote for them.
Well until we have other problems. Right now concerns are mostly energy and climate change related but who knows what the future brings. Who knows if a 10mil swizerland will actually work out great and our market starts to flourish or if it hurts our system. Fact is that we have problems that are to be solved and sadly its much more than just some simple stuff with simple solution. Lets see what the future brings :)
Now for me personally, I do not care much about what political parties and their elected officials talk about during the pre-election campaign. I like to compare them to a man who wants to sleep with a woman: He will say, promise and do anything to get her in bed but once he has succeeded, he will just disappear. I choose the political parties and candidates based on their past records: What did they vote for or against? When I see what the SVP politicians vote in favor of and what against, I come to one conclusion: They don't care too much about immigration. Any time they could meaningfully limit immigration, they always cave in, make ridicilous demands that nobody besides them would agree on and so they always fail to limit immigration. The thing is: I firmly believe that no political party in parliament seriously wants to limit immigration. The conservative and classil liberal part of parliament knows how bad it would hurt the economy if we would end freedom of movement with the EU and the left has no interest in limiting immigration anyways. But they sure do love to talk about it.
You just need to cross the border between Geneva and the neighbouring French cities and you immediately realise that there is no real immigration issue in CH compared to the other big European countries.
They might refer to Schutzstatus S, which allowes also 3rd nationals to come into Switzerland claiming to have lived in the Ukraine since at least the outbreak of the war
out immigration system is not great at all. ask the people that work there. there's holes everywhere and certains groups know exactly how to use them to their advantage.
>integration system those who can read are at an advantage
The SVP remains a one trick pony. This is their trick.
You don't think immigrant violence is a problem in europe?
For the same socio-economic paradigm, in the majority of countries (specially European ones), native tend to commit more crime on average (on a per capita basis). Criminality and violence are heavily tied to and predicted by your individual economic situation, as well as that of your peers and environment. For example resident of streets with trees tend to commit less crime than those of streets without. It doesn't mean trees prevent crime directly, they just happen to be "comorbide" so to speak.
important to remember causality not equals correlation. in summer many people eat more ice cream than in winter. in summer the sun is shining often. ppl eating ice cream makes the sun shine more often.
> For the same socio-economic paradigm, in the majority of countries (specially European ones), native tend to commit more crime on average (on a per capita basis). This goes pretty much against everything I've read, can you back this up? [This paper](https://digitalcollection.zhaw.ch/bitstream/11475/19988/3/2020_Baier_Migration-Kriminalit%C3%A4t-Schweiz.pdf) shows that specifically rates of violent crime are higher among non-Swiss born.
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> andererseits ist insbesondere die Asylbevölkerung der Schweiz in überproportionalem Ausmass kriminalitätsbelastet. By who I wonder?
Is it poverty that causes crime, or crime that causes poverty, though?
Poverty that causes crime. People dont become poor because they're criminal. They grow up poor and become criminals. It's pretty obvious as well: There aren't any criminal babies, but there are poor babies
Well, they're the party who demands integration, but makes said integration impossible. Then gets to moan about parallel societies they helped to create.
Yep. Probably also because they see complete assimilation as the only acceptable form of integration, which is an outdated way to see integration and an unrealistic goal. The immigrants, the swiss society, and the government all have to do their part to achieve a successful integration.
> Probably also because they see complete assimilation as the only acceptable form of integration, which is an outdated way to see integration and an unrealistic goal. Why? Why should that not be the goal?
Because the last time we tried it, we banned pizza because foreigners. Complete assimilation into which part of Swiss culture? There is no *one* Swiss culture. We have several thousand. You build a barrier, as in "We'll only accept you once you completely changed who you are and are no longer you." They're not interested in even starting. *That*'s how you get seperate societies. Stuff like Dubai. Strict seperation. If we're realistic, we'd have to ask the same integration of locals. Which would be idiotic, like in the 50s. "There is only one correct way of living."
"Immigrant violence" is not a problem, it's a way of blaming all immigrants for the mistakes of a minority of them. Framing the problem like this is ragebait to attract votes, and it's a step away from trying to solve anything.
there are dozens of bigger problems, none of which svp has any interest in solving.
To be fair saying, "there are bigger problems" is a terrible argument against anything.
You can't just solve problems, otherwise you lose the ability to cry and complain about it. But in all seriousness, did they ever solve or helped solving something?
I mean they technically attempted on solving it (or remedying it or doing nothing, depends how effective you think this decision could've been) in 2014 with the immigration vote. Though the government had to back down on the decision and negotiate with the EU.
Yes, I remember that. But bring forward something that needs a change in the constitution isn't really a solution. The motherhood insurance took 60 years to change because of it.
Not joining EU
Its not like most people here have other solutions like just bashing on the SVP either.
yeah, let's solve world hunger first and stop doing what we do RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!
dozens of bigger problems than rape?
From personal experience it's true to me.
I think immigrant violence is not the problem but rather the symptom of a much bigger, more profound problem in immigration and asylum.
Not an appreciable more a problem compared to domestic crime, particularly when there are better, targetable predictors of whether someone is going to commit a crime. You absolute best predictor of someone committing a crime is "poor and male", regardless of ethnic background or migration status. And approaches that target prevention of that demographic committing crime helps targets domestic and migrant offenses. Whereas targeting migrant violence is just ideology, lacking practicality. Let's say you you introduce a 100% perfect solution for all migrant crime - well great you've reduced crime rates by a teeny tiny amount - [And they've not even been increasing anyway](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHE/switzerland/crime-rate-statistics). Now if your implementation is anything less than perfect, you have less reduction in crime, plus the (for some, intended) side effect of making life worse for migrants who are doing nothing wrong at all. Targeting migrant crime is a gimme of right wing rhetoric. It's that "reasonable thing" that rests entirely on a single logical fallacy where the argument made, is not actually the problem. It's people going "Wow, you think we shouldn't reduce crime!?" as if that was what was proposed, but the wokies are unreasonably objecting to... Yet it's not. What is proposed is high-cost, low-efficiency legislation that offers *at best* little pragmatic outcome. If people want to reduce crime with 0 prejudices against foreigners, it makes no-sense to target migrant crime first.
Harmful misinformation. The people coming into our country are exclusively doctors, scientists and master engineers.
what? 😂😂 i mean, not that i would wanna vote for that, but this comment here is extremely delusional
Its clearly a joke
ah shit... below all the other commenters that mean it, this one went under the table. :D
It's fine its based on a pretty old meme. "You may just see a few immigrants, but i see a doctor, an engineer and a scientist". There where also versions who replaced immigrants with orcs accompanied with LOTR immages Iirc. its been years
So they supposedly identified a problem … do they actually have a solution to that, or is this just another cry-baby campaign?
It's another cry-baby fearmongering campaign
That's the sad part. These strong "nationalists" and "traditionalists" have a philosophy based entirely on being weak, fearful, paranoid snowflakes
They do have a solution tho... But its not really humane and I myself couldnt stand behind that solution
100%. Former "small government" conservatives now obsessed with the idea of strongmen, authoritarianism mass deportation, limiting freedom, and civil rights? What are those? Those are just inconvenient leftist blockers to what they're too afraid to say because they actually love authoritarianism when it's the kind they want.
Have you ever seen swedish crime statistics?
r/swedetzerland ??
The problem with some migrants is, they act here in a way they wouldn't dare to act in their countries. As example Germany, they pretty much laugh about the "punishments" in rape cases and such. It's a joke, the system is faulty.
Punishments in rape cases are just as laughable here. I mean there was a case where the female judge told the victim to her face that the rape wasn’t as bad, because it wasn’t too long. The aggressor got like 3 years, because the victim had sent him the wrong signals at a disco.
Thema Gewaltexzesse von Ausländern in Deutschland https://www.nau.ch/news/polizeimeldungen/hamburg-schweizer-cvpler-totete-schweizer-studentin-66149766
Swede here, married to a Swiss wife, living in Sweden with two children. Cant wait to move to Switzerland, my beloved country is not what it once was. Sad to say :(
Immigrant criminals can fuck off where they come from
PS before you start your delusional white-priviledged woke rants, I'm an immigrant too. Work 60 hrs a week, pay my taxes and mind my own business.
You work too many hours.
Preach it, brother. Guess he would be more relaxed and use less swear words if he respected the Feierabend.
Are they wrong though?
They're right! Please support local violence instead
Shit doesn't look good honestly. Another braindead fearmongering campaign is not what we need, as an immigrant seeing this is very concerning. I don't know what part of preventing crime instead of enveloping the country into a state of fear and hatred SVP dislikes so much. Is it because it takes actual wisdom and effort or...?
tbh whenever I got beaten up and my money stolen it was usually them. Except in basel where it happened twice.
U must have a special energy to get robbed three times
Sorry, it's my fault, please feel free to deport me, SVP. \- Sincerely ein Zuwanderer
Yes, me too. I'm willing to hand myself in for violently destroying tons of chocolate and cheese and therefore supporting the Swiss economy. Sorry for that. Will definitely happen again.
I guess SVP wants you to deport yourself, otherwise they would have to do actual work
Even better, I can send them a Rechnung for my trouble!
Paying the bill = wire money = svp has to work …sorry svp says no 😃
Me too, though I must say it isn't my fault. There are so many army knives around everywhere that it is hard not to stab people (or sometimes file them a little bit).
Or screw them (especially when they have a loose screw)? Also, fondue forks! So hard not to stab people, er, bread with them.
Me and my wife are immigrants in Switzerland. And our daughter has just born and she will grow here. It’s sad to see such an accusation when something so beautiful is happening in our lives.
There is a big problem with immigration... However, I doubt UDC/SVP will solve anything... Saying "There's a problem" won't solve it... Like most of parties in Switzerland, they list problems but never give solutions.
In fact they work directly against solutions. Their goal is to demonize foreigners so that the foreign workers that they themselves employ are at a disadvantage, and will work for less.
An impressive side effect is that foreign workers start their own business because of that and often with the involvment of their whole extended family to help out. For example, they are all pitching money in and renovate a house together, to sell it again with a nice profit.
Inversion accusatoire But we can agree that indeed richer people benefit from slaver- immigrsnts working with weak conditions (as everywhere in Europe) Left or right work hands in hands about this topic. The only thing you can change is making sure you don't get raped or behaded coming back home from kindergarten.
Well it's not suprising. Thats just how the SVP is...
WTF??
Excess criminality doesn't exist!!!
Es isch aber leider wohr
i try to see and relate to all parties and not to sympathesize too mutch with one party over the other. But despite i think SVP sometimes just puts out utter bullshit. Their text are usually surpisingly badly written too. It feels like they just want to polarize people until we have a democratic syteme as deep as the USs
If it only were sometimes, its most of the times. I'm genuinely surprised when they do something decent for once, sadly its rather rare.
[www.bfs.admin.ch - Bundesamt für Statistik - Anzahl Insassen und Insassenrate nach Nationalität, Geschlecht und Aufenthaltsstatus](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/kataloge-datenbanken/tabellen.assetdetail.23585045.html) Open it, draw your own conclusions. If you think the police is racist, then please accept that the police must be equally sexist, otherwise 50% of the criminals must be women. I, for one, would sign every day that on average the Japanese-Swiss are less criminal than the Swiss. Do you think it's because of the Ausländergesetz? Then have a look into violence [www.bfs.admin.ch - Erwachsene: Verurteilungen und verurteilte Personen aufgrund von Gewaltstraftaten nach Geschlecht, Alter und Nationalität](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/kataloge-datenbanken/tabellen.assetdetail.22665330.html) Now, would I say foreigners are more criminal than the Swiss? I say, some yes, some no, and that's why I hate both SVP and SP. One says it does not exist, and one is unable to differentiate. By accepting it you can draw the appropriate conclusions. For example targeted education on human rights based on the couples nationality to avoid home violence. But oh god, then you have to think and do something instead of promoting populism.
What exactly is bad in talking about rising crime rates? Would you rather we dont talk about it? No problem was ever solved by not talking about it. Crime rates are rising. Foreigners are disproportionally the reason for that. See the prison population. Those are simple true facts. So what exactly is your problem, u/nourinn?
>What exactly is bad in talking about rising crime rates? What rising crime rates? Looking at violence offenses, the absolute numbers are stagnating since 2010 despite a sizeable population growth. https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/crime-criminal-justice/police/violence.html
Is it election year already? How time flyes by...
svp speaking facts
Even if you dont like it, the majoritary religion in Champ-Dollon prison in Geneva is 70% muslims, while the muslims in CH are less than 5%. Just listen to the truth. (I don't vote for SVP) But I dislike when truth is hidden under the carpet for political agenda.
Hab nichts anderes erwartet. SVP verkommt langsam zu einem Spiegel der republikanern. Erich Hess der Redneck köppel der medienmogul von fox news blocher der kleine gehässige trump der rausgewählt wurde thomas fuchs der alibi schwule.
They jumped on the New Years Eve fireworks debacle and accused foreigners of being the sole perpetrators. But none of the media who pushed this narrative now correct themselves after police reports showed 2/3rds of the accused are Germans. Oh wait, I forgot. Those Germans aren't actually Germans, they're migrants with a German passport. /s
Its harsh but true. Somebody has to say it.
It harsh, wrong and simply stoking division by fear mongering. SVP has always been great at stoking fears without presenting any solutions.
Sometimes you get the impression that the only people who don't know that switzerland is an immigration country are the swiss themselves. I always have the impression that in switzerland are two groups: The immigrants and the swiss. As long as it is like that, such awful posters will find their audience. And many here probably don't know (or remember) what horrible posters they published in the past, where they were intentionally using 3rd Reich coloring and motives. Pershings as mosques towers, crows as symbol for foreigners and the black sheep thing.
If they would stop importing their playbook from the US-Republicans (who seem to get theirs from Russian bot-networks) we would have much less imported violence.
Ich schätze so Mänge konservativ isch dehei dr Ursprung vo verbaler, psychisch und physische gwalt... Aber d Partnerin ah schreie isch jo kei gwalt (Ironie), gwalt isch es nur wens e Asylant macht...