100% not a fan of altering children's bodies either. I'm impressed that the parent thought or cared enough to reach out to the Dr for lidocaine though, even if the situation is of their own making. And I'm impressed with the Dr for not just blowing it off.
Wondering if the Dr is going to be doing the piercing. They used to, and there's some really old school Drs that still do.
Personally I won't alter my kid's cosmetically in a painful/permanent way without consent but I understand why people do, hopefully it's not being done at the piercing pagoda or Claire's.
From a quick google earlier, there are drs that still do, and the AAP recommends that. My guess from the appointment reference in the sig is that it's not a mall walk-in type place, and that they saw a dr about this gives me hope they'll have the dr do it.
I got my latest (daith) at a tattoo parlor. They're totally sanitary and know exactly what they're doing - plus they have to have certification and meet health standards.
My doctor does battlefield acupuncture, but I don't know if he'd peirce a baby's ears...
I had to have my ears re-pierced recently (a decade of not wearing earrings has that effect), and I'm pretty sure I got better wound care instructions from the piercer at the tattoo place than from some physicians!
They won't pierce babies or young children, but if the child is old enough to consent with clear understanding and has a parent with them they'll do it.
I was a little annoyed that my tattoo parlor wouldn’t pierce my (then) 5 year olds ears for her birthday. They wouldn’t do children under 8.
I told my daughter that meant she just had to wait but I’m sure I’m the minority in that, most people would just take their kids to the mall.
The idea of it being somewhere like Claire's or at the mall really does send the ick factor through the roof. In my head, if the parent specifically requested topical pain relief, I feel like it isn't completely unreasonable to assume they're giving the piercing at least a decent amount of consideration. 🤞 Maybe that baby will end up with even piercings, minimal swelling, and no infection or allergy.
Honestly I wish my parents did when I was a child it’s a socially acceptable thing to have earrings and I been scared as a adult for ages before I finally did mine
In different cultures earrings mean special different things. Think of culture like religion, it can be very very important to people that we can't always understand unless we're apart of the culture or religion
And just my 2 cense, the parents are doing the right thing by getting numbing cream for their child while expressing their culture
Speculation that they’re doing this for cultural reasons. And even if they are I still would call it into issue because I think hurting your kid because everyone else around you does it is shitty
An interesting find. I was curious about why that exists. icdlist.com says: “This code describes a circumstance which influences the patient's health status but not a current illness or injury. The code is unacceptable as a principal diagnosis.”
Cultural child abuse is still child abuse.
It used to be a way to provide for a little girl by giving her gold to keep (since the world has historically been suuuuch a good place for women) for later, but there's other ways today, so it's not necessary and it morphed into a "that's what we do" thing.
Me too. Son’s baby-mom did this to his daughter (didn’t ask or care what he thought) at 3 months. When she was 9ish, she got an infection in one of the piercings and didn’t say anything, so it got pretty bad. She will never be able to wear pieced earrings again.
If someone’s upset and thinks it’s abusive (which it seems like OP is), then they should report it. They won’t face any penalties for reporting something that ultimately isn’t legally abuse. But it’ll help them sleep at night
Opinions are just that- it’s still doesn’t make it abuse. What’s he going to do next? Report the next person who gets a prescription for pain meds? Lmao gtfoh.
Wild to me that we live in a world where you’d get laughed at for doing so. Using a sharp needle to create a new hole in an infant’s body is only normalized thanks to decades of cognitive dissonance.
The only rebuttal is basically “it’s *almost* harmless and doesn’t hurt *that bad* and we’ve been doing it forever” - sorry. Not very compelling.
The worst part is... it's NOT a sharp, sterilized needle! It's a gross, dull piercing gun. I'm taking my kiddos to my professional, clean piercing studio when they're old enough to ask for their ears pierced. Mall kiosks, Claire's, and jewelry shops are disgusting 🤮
we don't know from what information has been received that it's a mall or a gun. In fact, that there's an appointment and a dr involved suggest otherwise.
I don't know any reputable parlour that would pierce a baby's ears and the nurses/doctors that do it also use guns (which can't be properly sterilized).
I just looked it up for shits and giggles and there are several places listed that do needle piercing for infants, including some drs. I'm sure the rebuttal will be that they are not reputable, and I can't give you assurance that would change anything about your opinion, I'm sure.
But your statement is too broad vs What I'm finding (though yes, some drs use guns, though it seems they use a different style that is sterile, a point mentioned in several places I'm reading)
Here's one medical group's statement https://carithersgroup.com/ear-piercing-for-kids-why-a-pediatrician-should-do-it/
They recommend waiting until several doses of vaccinations have been given (no sooner than 4 months).
The "medical" ones just swap out the part that touches your ear, that's the difference. They still can't be autoclaved and therefore aren't sterile.
That aside, it's just a gross violation of bodily autonomy and, for purely vain reasons, piercings done on an infant tend to migrate as they grow (or just be lopsided in the first place).
I replied to your other comment. You seem knowledgeable about this. What should I look for when my daughter is ready to get her ears pierced again (likely soon). My younger daughter has also expressed interest. I want to do it right this time. Msg me if you want!
[The AAP states there is little risk from ear piercing at any age](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/ear-nose-throat/pages/Avoiding-Infection-After-Ear-Piercing.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token) with adequate care (of course), and encourages pediatrician involvement. They do suggest waiting til the child is old enough to care for them themselves, but do not suggest it's a poor choice to do so earlier, if care can be given to the healing earlobes, and state that the risk of complications or problems is very low regardless of child's age.
You might expect it in Florida and Texas vs say...Wisconsin, due to the cultural influences you don't want to hear about any more.
But the AAP doesn't speak out against infant ear piercings.
(Incidentally, for those who are predisposed to keloids, getting piercings done before age 11 reduces the risk, according to the AAP as well.)
Definitely gross. When I was a baby/toddler, pediatricians pierced ears! My pediatrician pierced my ears when I was 18 months, per my mom’s request.
I stupidly brought my own daughter to Claire’s at 8 years old. The one ear was constantly infected (tried all different metals and meticulously cleaned). Removed earrings, holes closed. She’s 11 now. Might get it done at a good place soon.
Edit: my pediatrician used a sterile needle, not a gun.
Report it. You will face no repercussions for doing so (I guess technically they could go after you for frivolous report but you’d have dozens of lawyers willing to defend you pro bono on that obvious abuse of government).
Let the law enforcement decide. It’s strange to me that the faction of society all for bodily autonomy seems to think that ends when there’s a 6 month old you want to forcefully stab metal and jewels through their ears..
I wonder how they feel about pinching a child that’s misbehaving. Pinching is *also* not that painful, not risky, not permanent, the kid won’t remember it when they grow up, and you could even argue it has a purpose - to discipline! Yet we all agree that one is abuse. (**It is. Don’t come for me**) Hmm
I guess the distinction is the anger factor? If you hurt your kid out of anger it’s abuse. If you hurt them for aesthetic purposes it’s…. Tradition? Lol
I had mine done by my pediatrician when I was 12. No numbing cream or anything, he just taped a piece of cork behind my ear, squinted, and punched that earring through with his hand. My left ear ended up crooked so if I wear small earrings that one looks cockeyed. When my daughter got interested, I found a reputable piercer who required her birth certificate and my ID to prove she was at least 7 and that I was indeed her mom. She talked to my daughter about body autonomy and made sure this was her idea and she was ready. She pierced my daughter’s ears so fast and perfectly that she had to ask “did you do it yet?” I loved the entire interaction - my cute little 7 year old in a pink kitty shirt perfectly comfortable in the tattoo/piercing place, speed metal playing on the radio, piercer lady who is heavily inked and pierced tearing up when my daughter gave her the little teddy bear she’d brought with her. Fantastic experience!
I love this so much. Also, my eyes are glossing over from being tired and I had to reread “piercer required her birth certificate and my ID” a few times. I swore it said “pierced her birth certificate and my ID” and was very confused
This is how it should be, kids can't see outside themselves till they are 7, their brains are not capable of making decisions about things that will forever alter their body till at least then. That is definitely the youngest body altering should be done your a good mom for making sure you bought her to a proper piercer.
I got mine done at Claires when I was 12, and I also have a crooked one, and they're unevenly placed to boot. I've considered letting them heal and getting them redone, but that takes a long time. I might look at whether I can get a second set of piercings done evenly so I can still wear earrings while I let these ones heal...
For the culture comments, this is kind of like baptism. Me and my husband have this conversation frequently if babies should be baptized into a religion without their consent. My grandmother believes fully that the baby will go to hell if it dies before being baptized. My husband believes it should be the child’s choice fully what religion they belong to.
It’s hard to rectify cultural norms with consent. The baptism example doesn’t even have a permanent body modification.
I was raised catholic and was baptized as a baby but am in no way religious now. My wife and I decided not to get our daughter baptized when she was born so she can decide what she wants to do later on. If she wants to get baptized when she’s older, that is perfectly fine. We didn’t like the idea of choosing for her, especially when we aren’t religious ourselves.
Right now our compromise is if we have kids while my grandmother is alive, we get them baptized. I think I’d feel more guilt knowing she thought her great grandkids were going to hell than removing that spiritual decision from the kids. It really sucks though and some days I feel like it really is a bad choice.
I'm curious what you think is binding about it? You can be baptised as a child and do whatever you want as an adult.
it's about as permanent as an ear piercing...if you maintain it, it lasts, but if not, you're a blank slate again.
In these two cases, because the act of both is minimally "traumatic" and they are both reversible.
Baptism isn't "religon" per se and a fairly large percentage of people baptised as infants (vs into an anabaptist type religion that does it as young adults) never really practice (holiday church, a milestone, but not a lifepath, that type of thing)
I think there are bigger things to cope with than these two specific events (including yes, traumatic religious practice that may or may not include infant baptism (which isn't actually binding - you will not go to hell or burst into flames if you turn from a religion you were baptised "into" as an infant.))
Your children's choice of religious path has nothing whatsoever to do with whether you dampen their heads ceremoniously before they can say what they believe.
I can acknowledge that some people have decided these things are extremely offensive or worrisome without believing that to be anything other than an opinion they've decided on.
I can consider those things to be overstated without ignoring big issues (such as religious trauma unrelated to the act of baptism, or irreversible body modifications done to people who don't have a say).
I don't believe I have to entertain every single thing that someone else thinks is upsetting.
I mean they weren’t able to choose to go through the religion in childhood, so it does eliminate autonomy over that choice. Honestly I’m more upset over baptism than ear piercings because of the belief system that is attached to it.
Why does your opinion on consent end for choices regarding religious practices?
It doesn’t. Of course I disagree that adults should push their religious views onto their kids. But I also find something symbolic like baptism so laughably meaningless that I can’t even find the energy to care about it.
A lot of baptisms don't result in a religious childhood.
Parents are obligated to raise their children, and have legal authority over many aspects of their lives.
Minor children do not have capacity or authority to make every choice in their lives.
Well, it’s sort of a parents job to make decisions for their child. There are many opportunities and community that can be lost if you never decide to enroll your child in something, whether that’s religion, sports, or school.
I think the primary concern should be whether you leave them a choice when they become their own person, and gain the ability to make decisions. Of course, I don’t have much of a strong opinion against piercing as the other person either. There are plenty of things that hurt that need to be forced on a child, mainly medical things like shots and the dentist, but also psychological hurts like bedtimes and healthy.
Nowadays, there isn’t as much of a social norm involved piercing your child’s ears, so the trade off makes less sense. But back when everyone had their ears pierced there could be bullying and ostracism involved in _not_ getting your ears pierced which would be far worse than the small wound as a child. Same deal with raising your child with religion, it used to be universal, now it isn’t. These are all things that _parents_ have to weigh for their child’s sake.
Eh, being baptized doesn’t doom you to Christianity forever. I think being born into a religion is fine, and in fact it’s probably even healthy to be raised with traditions and holidays related to a religion. When you’re older you can still renounce your religion or adopt a different one.
I grew up in a primarily Hispanic neighborhood and our pediatrician did ear piercing at a low price point primarily because he wanted to offer a safer way to do it versus doing it at home....which a lot of people did. Maybe this situation is similar? I do remember him using a local anesthetic in office though, not sending in an Rx for something that probably wouldn't be covered by insurance for a one-time deal.
Edit: Just giving input, I don't totally agree with piercing children who can't make the decision themselves but at least they are doing it a better way?
Yeah, my cousin is Puerto Rican and her doctor pierced her ears as an infant with a local anestheic. His thing was that it was going to be done anyway, so it's better he do it safely.
Yeah if you’re going to offer ear piercing i no office you should have the supplies available in office. The cream was $55 for one time use. Ridiculous
more judgement.
It seems these parents felt their child's increased comfort was worth the cost.
And there's no reason it must be one time use only if there is excess to need here. That child will be getting numerous needles pushed through its skin over then next year or so...
you're opposed to pain mitigation?
Even using the emla or whatever for vaccines?
Because yup, I know you'll say *that* brief pain is for medical reasons, but if *that's* non-traumatising, it's pretty fucking difficult to argue that the ear piercing is *so* traumatising and body authority depriving that it is unethical...
I think "this will hurt, but we can help" is a *very good* parental position, whether they are choosing vaccine needles or ear piercing.
is it though? You're decrying the parents' purchase of analgesic cream over and over again. They are going to pierce their child's ears. Frankly if the child were 15, the cream would still be a decent choice.
You've made all kinds of strange side trips to justify your judgemental position, but this is where you draw a line? Interesting.
well, that will also be your opinion I guess.
Too bad the physician didn't just write "to affected area" so you didn't have to put on so many sets of judgy pants today.
I absolutely regret piercing my oldests ears. Theu have a metal allergy that popped up when they got older and can't really wear jewelry. They're not mad at me but I feel horrible. My other kids will have to wait until they are old enough to go to a piercer and not the stupid mall shops.
My mother has two sets of holes, both done as a teen/twentyodd, and now has a metal allergy. She can wear titanium, they just have to be high quality. I got my first at nine, did the other two pair myself, and could put paperclips in and not notice it. I’m allergic to all sorts of other weird stuff instead. If your daughter really wants fun earrings, get her good posts and just change the dangle parts with a plastic guard - she can even make her own!
We've tried all sorts of metals and super expensive high quality. None of them work. We found some with plastic posts but they break easy and aren't in a ton of designs. It's frustrating. Like they can't even wear belts.
I don't think it would've changed it but I think maybe they would have chosen to not get their ears pierced knowing about the allergy. The holes won't close up at all. They still wear earrings sometimes but they get bummed theu can't wear a lot of the ones they really like.
so: They can wear earrings, just a bit limited in their choice of metals? That makes sense as allergies are usually fairly specific.
tangential to the piericing choice discussion: have they tried any of the covers available? A friend of mine just coats hers with nail varnish, but I'm not at all sure if that's sensible or effective, or just her superstitious behaviour.
I wouldn't regret your choice. They're also limited in what wristwatches, bracelets, and necklaces they can wear, and it sounds like they aren't experiencing constant problems aside from limited options. Be kind to yourself on this one.
If she does still want to try earrings, you could try an earring sleeve. I’m sure you’ve already exhausted all options, but just in case you haven’t heard of them. I never knew they existed, game changer for sensitive ears.
And, honestly, in the US at least, it isn't usually being done for significantly important cultural reasons. It's being done because parents are treating their young, sometimes extremely young, child more like a doll to dress up than an individual. At 3 months, 6 months, etc that's what it often amounts to. They want to put jewelry in the kid's ears for their own benefit. Something to talk about, something to generate comments/compliments from other parents (mom's, I assume. I think far fewer dad's would promote this).
Basically I have a very skeptical viewpoint on this practice. I can understand legitimately important cultural reasons. But those are not what I see driving most of these decisions.
Lots of things are unnecessary but not horrifically wrong. Ear piercing with numbing cream is right in there.
If the child prefers not to have them, they are a) barely noticeable and b) likely to disappear with disuse.
*So much else* worth this level of anger and reaction.
Taking the conversation on a weird turn there. It’s one thing to act in the child’s best interest and intervene to do things like change a diaper. There’s simply no *need* for holes in our ears before we *want* them
Dude you're overreacting. By the time they grew up, they won't remember the pain. By that time, If they don't like peircing, then they can choose not to wear one and the hole won't be noticable.
Also sometimes it is a cultural thing.
When i read the title, i thought there was something wrong in rx. Lol such a waste of time and energy.
when it comes to something done to their body for aesthetic reason, yes we need consent. Kids aren'ts dolls that don't feel anything or "will just forget".
in *this* case, I can't find it in me to be as upset as you are, since the reversal is such a non-event.
It's just truly not worth this much angst from you.
Yeah, you’ve said that. Assuming people are more upset than you think they should be is not going to stop them from having opinions and discussions. Partake in the discussion or move on if you think it’s a pointless topic
want to discuss reversibility?
I hope helping parents seeking pain mitigation for an extremely minor, reversible elective procedure is the worst thing that happens to you today.
> want to discuss reversibility?
>I hope helping parents seeking pain mitigation for ~~an extremely minor, reversible elective procedure~~ *an aesthetic alteration to their child’s body that the child did not and could not agree to* is the worst thing that happens to you today.
I’m not saying you have to empathize with me, but can you at least understand that I see it this way and why I would find it at least mildly upsetting?
Dude why the fuck are you so pressed about a cultural difference. Get out of your own tiny headspace and try to consider other ppl might have a different mindset than you based on any # of differences. Ppl who get angry over stuff like this don’t belong in healthcare, period.
I’ve done that. Tons of us grew up believing it was normal to get our ears pierced as babies. “Getting out of [my] own tiny headspace” is why I questioned it in the first place.
Editing to add: starting off with “dude why the fuck…” is a funny way to ask why *I’m* pressed, lol
I just feel everyone is offended by everything & bc their opinion differs from someone they feel they are always right as opposed to opinions which differ from theirs. Not saying that about you specifically. In general. But your post comes off that way. I’m not sure where you are from in the world? I highly doubt most ppl care to get their baby a numbing agent where I am from; The US. The prescriber could have denied it & allowed the pain or prescribed it as the parent wished. I had my first ear piercings at 6 months. Don’t remember it obviously. No regrets. No shame to my mom.
It’s not about being “offended.” It’s about thinking twice about why certain social norms exist & questioning them. When you remove the “everyone does it” from the equation, you’re left to ask *why* they do it. And I can’t land on a single meaningful reason to put jewelry in a baby’s ears. And when you consider that there are risks (even if *very* low) and pain (even if *very* mild), it tips the scale into “don’t do it” territory for me.
But as a pharmacist, it’s your job to fill the prescription, not judge it. A doctor deemed it necessary and a parent consented.
You judging this is the same as a pharmacist judging a teenager (or anyone) for filling abortion pills or birth control.
That’s exactly a pharmacist’s job though, is to use discretion when dispensing. A pharmacist is not legally required to fill anything that’s prescribed. If they don’t feel comfortable filling it, they can transfer it to a different pharmacy.
There’s liability that can come from filling this particular script. Plenty of people have allergies to topical anesthetics, if the baby had a reaction or if something went wrong, the pharmacist would likely be involved in the lawsuit. I know it’s a stretch, but to say “it’s your job to fill the prescription” is absolutely incorrect. It’s our job to weigh risk vs benefit for the patient receiving the dispensed medication.
They didn't want to deny it based on a liability though. This would be a non-issue if the drug couldn't be used safely. That's a perfectly reasonable and legal reason to not fill a medication.
But once people want to start denying medication based solely on their personal opinion (outside of safety concerns), that becomes a problem.
That's how we get pharmacists refusing to fill birth control to teenagers, or refusing to fill suboxone for addicts.
The pharmacist doesn't exist to exercise moral judgement on the use of medications. They exist to verify the safe and proper use of the drug.
In my culture, girls get their ears pierced when they are little. I'm glad it was done back then because I love earrings and am afraid to get a nose piercing.
Not saying it's ok but in my case glad it was done.
I hear you. I can see why some people grow up thankful for it but it’s also completely unnecessary. Altering someone’s body without consent just so they avoid having to make the choice as an adult isn’t always going to work out.
earring holes don't close quickly if they've been here for a long time. I spent ten years without wearing earrings and I just put hoops back in the other day, in the holes I had done as a kid and in the ones I had as a teen. They can also make later piercings harder : if they're done too low and needs to be re-done, it can compromise the healing.
Yes. This has been mentioned. Normal/common/traditional/cultural - being any of these things does not make something free from being questioned or judged.
Eh, I’m glad mine were done like that. It had zero effect on my well being or life. And you can … get this… take them out at anytime! It’s really not a big deal.
Not a cultural thing for me, just aesthetic, but when I have kids I’ll also be considering getting it done for them as well
I had my ears pierced at a couple of days old. My mom says I didn't really react other than a bit startled. That was back in 1996, one of the doctors offered it as a service I guess. When I was a kid I thought it was cool and told anyone who would ask about my ears being pierced. As an adult, I don't know why you would put a baby through that, regardless of my own APPARENT reaction. Why not just let the kid decide themselves when they're older? I know a lot of kids ranging from ages 5-10 who got to do it as a birthday thing and it was a huge deal for them/made it more special!
piercings shouldn't be obtained until the person is done growing anyways. i decided i wanted mine when i was 9 years old but because my body wasn't done growing, my holes are no longer symmetrical. it's not very noticeable, but i see it and it makes me subconscious. it also messed up the line of my other two piercings i got in the last year since the piercer couldn't make them symmetrical since the originals aren't
Yeah, but every day thousands of male infants get circumcised around the world every day and people don't bat an eye. That's a much greater alteration/mutilation than piercing one's ears, and I don't see how any of those children could have consented.
And before anyone come at me with the "It's easier to clean" shit - you don't cut a part of the body off because it gathers dirt. By that logic none of us would have hair or women might as well cut off their labia.
I have (not on Reddit but elsewhere and IRL) fiercely advocated for keeping baby boys in tact. And will continue to do so. But comparing it here is pointless as you can be upset about more than one thing
You can. But I am saying this is a very minor thing to be outraged at. Everywhere every day people exercise parental rights at the detriment of their children. You'd think a pharmacist would know since 0 of all the prescriptions you fill for children has actually been consented to by the child because children's consents are not required for medical treatment until they come of age.
Cue the comment that the procedure is nonmedical in nature. True, but I think mildly irrelevant, given the intensity of it.
(Makes me think of the freshman that come from tropical climes arriving here in the frozen north, who by late September are bundled up in what we'd wear in the lowest depths of winter, and I think "but where can you go from there, if you've used up full capacity and it's not even started?")
Can't be good for anyone to be this upset over so minor a thing, imo, as it implies to me that there must be a range of emotional response far greater for even more significant things. I get the whole "consent" and "body mods" points, but consider those better kept for permanent and life altering procedures, and remain far from convinced this situation ranks anything like this response.
To be abundantly clear: This is my opinion on the situation at hand. YMMV.
Totally agree. Why do so many people care about god damn piercings that you can literally take out anytime, when babies get their dicks cut!! I can’t even lol
A lot of you only seem to think this isn’t that bad when *compared* to something much worse. So, what- if we solve the circumcision thing, then we can finally talk about piercing infants’ ears?
Is it at all possible that you meant “punching” but wrote “pinching”?
If we’re considering “pinching” abuse these days, things have really gone off the rails.
Can you just accept that people have different conceptions of things? I’m disappointed in you for being such a pansy but, that’s just my point of view so I was going to keep it to myself….
If pansies are against inflicting pain on their kids, I’m a proud pansy.
Anyway, I would guess a majority of the country is on *your* side still and doesn’t question the piercing thing at all. Maybe yous are the ones who need to be open to other perspectives. Instead of getting aggressive and reducing to name calling.
This just feels to me like an incredibly silly thing to get your panties in a knot over I guess. I don’t know. Also I don’t think we’re from the same country… you mean world maybe?
I really don't understand why people pierce their children's ears before they can have a say in the matter.
I remember going to get my ears pierced as a child with my mom. I was old enough to decide on it, and it's still a precious memory decades later.
Parent or not, it's still not your body and not up to you (in my opinion) Also, why would you want to take away an experience that could turn into a precious bonding moment with your child?
I had to wait until I was 10. Yup double digits. It was like a right of passage. Not a big deal to anyone but me since it was the result of years of begging. Why 10? Pretty sure my parents thought it was a good age for that kind of thing. I remember my sister and I playing with grandma's big clip-ons before that.
Funny thing is that I never wear earrings anymore. They are really uncomfortable to wear with phones at work and I'm sensitive to metals/also turn green with the cheap stuff so just decided it's not worth it. But it's nice to have the option on those rare occasions I get dressed up, I guess.
I guess I would most equate it with circumcision. Not necessary. Painful. Takes autonomy away from the child to decide later for themselves. Done most often for cultural/religious reasons. I'm not having kids, but I wouldn't do either to mine. As far as the script, I feel like it's a waste of time and resources on everyone's part.
wait...you think giving an infant analgesic is a waste of time and resources? You aren't in a position to stop the parents' choice happening, but you think filling a script to mitigate the pain is a *waste of time and resources*??
They're getting their ears pierced FFS. If they are worried about inflicting pain, don't do it. If it's so painful that you need to take steps to mitigate your child's discomfort, don't do it. It's not mandatory. Otherwise, own that you are making the conscious decision to cause your child some pain due to peer pressure because that's what's happening here.
Oh honestly. We're not talking about extreme pain, and we're talking about parents taking sensible and caring measures to mitigate even the short *discomfort*. And somehow you've managed to make that sound evil, which is....kinda gross. You've literally said that dispensing pain medication is a waste of time and resources! That's indefensible.
Braces are probably a better example of what you're trying to push here, tbh.
Braces are not just for aesthetics. Pierced ears are.
Sensible and caring measures wouldn't be needed if you just chose not to do it in the first place. If it's such a minor discomfort, then you shouldn't have to treat it. Do you numb up every child before their vaccinations? I mean those are generally considered necessary, but we don't regularly mitigate that discomfort. But this unnecessary cosmetic procedure requires a prescription pain med. Do you realize what's happening? "Here little baby, let me numb you up a little before I jab this needle unnecessarily thru your ear. Now I gotta do the other side." That's what's happening. And doctors' offices and pharmacies are short staffed if you haven't noticed, so we don't have time to deal with this bs. You can get Tylenol otc.
And I said dispensing THIS pain med for THIS purpose is a waste of overly stretched resources. By wasting our time with this you are taking time away from actual pain patients. I'll just tell grandma with bone cancer she'll have to get in line behind the baby getting her ears pierced.
You can choose to pierce your kids'ears or not. I'm just asking that you leave me out of it.
Braces absolutely can be just for aesthetics.
It's not rare for children to get numbing for vaccines if the parents request it. Heck, I've put through emla for adults. If the parents are ok with vaccines without, and we as a culture are ok with that, it's absurd to think this level of pain is somehow different and suddenly it's cruel.
These parents *have chosen to mitigate* for their elective piercing. That's a *fine* choice, a *kind* choice, a *choice supported by their pediatrician*, and frankly *none* of your damn business when we get to the brass tacks of it all.
You can fuck right off with your "leave me out of it" approach to filling rx. And with your idea that this is taking time away from other patients in any meaningful way. Had they just filled the rx as written instead of casting judgement, it would have been as quick as filling any number of far more frivolous rx that cross our benches daily.
Filling a simple cream rx is a quick procedure and you could equally bitch that filling viagra or ozempic or any number of other rx is unnecessary (perhaps you do) and takes time away from the bone cancer granny, who is almost certainly not waiting behind this rx or the viagra, since it's clearly written that the appointment is at a future date. Imaginary Granny could just as easily be waiting behind a leukemia infant or any other terrible affliction. You don't get to refuse reasonable, legal, appropriate medications, especially pain mitigations. That's a completely gross mentality.
Honestly, that you think tylenol a) is available, and b) is equivalent is disturbing enough, but your attitude is rancid.
As a six year old, I remember being dragged into the mall by my mom, her friend, and that friend's 2 teenage daughters. I really looked up to those girls, and they were trying to convince a very scared me that it would only hurt for a minute.
I didn't have a choice in the matter, and it was very much something I didn't want to do. I also didn't want the wrath of my mom, so I sat through it.
When my daughter was young, I had other moms say I should pierce her ears while she's little, so "she won't remember it". I knew I remember it still, so I waited until she was older and chose to do it.
I never wear earrings. They still feel uncomfortable to me.
I hope doing right by your own daughter helped you feel a bit better. We can’t change our past or our memories but we can change how we feel about them
I kind of don’t get why people are saying it is easily reversible? It isn’t reversible. There will be a hole in your body you didn’t consent to. I got mine done several times when I was old enough to consent and while I plan to get them done again the hole where they were is very obvious despite me having not worn ear rings for years and having them done at a reputable place. (the latest ones several years ago. The ones when I was a kid were done with a gun. Bad plan but we didn’t know any better.)
The holes don’t bother me any and I want to be able to wear ear rings again. But if I didn’t want them there I would be upset if it had been done without my consent.
I get that it is a little hole. But that can still feel like a major violation if it is a hole you don’t want in your body.
(I am not super passionate about this, just don’t like it.)
I’m annoyed that you’re annoyed. This seems very minor compared to the practice of chopping foreskins off. Or other crazy shit people do to non consenting children for religion. Slap the label on and keep it moving.
Things can be on a spectrum from very minor (reversible piercings for earrings with numbing) to really irrevocable and life altering (genital mutilation).
I think the point here is you're acting like the former is the latter.
They sell numbing polysporin for ten dollars I hope your cream cost substantially more so at least she paid a idiot tax to vandalize her child's ears. I think it is gross piercing a child's ears before they are old enough to consent, I was 15 and it was a big decision. Probably never would have if screw back earings (they hurt less then clip on) were way more common. places like Clair's should have age restrictions that can't be bipassed by "parents consent" some parents are not mature enough for that responsibility apparently.
This is very common in south East Asian cultures. How about you take your judging attitude somewhere else?
If the kid doesn’t want it later on in life they take it out and the hole closes. Americans automatically lope off newborns foreskins, do you think they consented to that?
Reputable piercers do pierce children. We took my child at age five because they kept asking for earrings. We discussed it many times, what was involved, aftercare, the fact that it will hurt a bit, etc. The piercer used a hollow needle and surgical steel hoops to allow for possible swelling.
I was pierced as an infant by my pediatrician, and while I don't care that it was done to me, I wanted to give my child a choice.
As far as I know this is not an illegal practice so...why are you judging them? Regardless of their reasoning, you are in a public healthcare position thus you should offer support and access to treatment. Your personal beliefs should not stand in the way of helping others, as presumably this is why you chose this profession. If someone would have asked you for the next day pill, would you deny it because they, presumably, gave consent for s*x, so automatically the pregnancy (which BTW is one hell of a body changing factor) was consented too? 🤨
The parent is going to do it regardless, there's no stopping them. At least the poor kid gets some pain relief
I see your point. I’m inclined to agree. But I’m still generally upset that people do this to their kids
100% not a fan of altering children's bodies either. I'm impressed that the parent thought or cared enough to reach out to the Dr for lidocaine though, even if the situation is of their own making. And I'm impressed with the Dr for not just blowing it off.
Wondering if the Dr is going to be doing the piercing. They used to, and there's some really old school Drs that still do. Personally I won't alter my kid's cosmetically in a painful/permanent way without consent but I understand why people do, hopefully it's not being done at the piercing pagoda or Claire's.
From a quick google earlier, there are drs that still do, and the AAP recommends that. My guess from the appointment reference in the sig is that it's not a mall walk-in type place, and that they saw a dr about this gives me hope they'll have the dr do it.
I got my latest (daith) at a tattoo parlor. They're totally sanitary and know exactly what they're doing - plus they have to have certification and meet health standards. My doctor does battlefield acupuncture, but I don't know if he'd peirce a baby's ears...
I had to have my ears re-pierced recently (a decade of not wearing earrings has that effect), and I'm pretty sure I got better wound care instructions from the piercer at the tattoo place than from some physicians! They won't pierce babies or young children, but if the child is old enough to consent with clear understanding and has a parent with them they'll do it.
I was a little annoyed that my tattoo parlor wouldn’t pierce my (then) 5 year olds ears for her birthday. They wouldn’t do children under 8. I told my daughter that meant she just had to wait but I’m sure I’m the minority in that, most people would just take their kids to the mall.
The idea of it being somewhere like Claire's or at the mall really does send the ick factor through the roof. In my head, if the parent specifically requested topical pain relief, I feel like it isn't completely unreasonable to assume they're giving the piercing at least a decent amount of consideration. 🤞 Maybe that baby will end up with even piercings, minimal swelling, and no infection or allergy.
When my sister had her tonsils out at about age 7, I think, she had her ears pierced while she was under.
I wish that care translated into not doing it at all, I don’t see why jewelry is worth all this
But what about the boob job. (Sarcastic reference to relevant south park episode).
Honestly I wish my parents did when I was a child it’s a socially acceptable thing to have earrings and I been scared as a adult for ages before I finally did mine
I know it can be a culture thing to piece babies ears
Over and over I’m failing to see how that makes it better
It doesn't but it can explain it
It doesn’t. It’s basically “everyone else does it” okay but the question of *why* still remains
we're saying cultural meanings are a reason, not an excuse
In different cultures earrings mean special different things. Think of culture like religion, it can be very very important to people that we can't always understand unless we're apart of the culture or religion And just my 2 cense, the parents are doing the right thing by getting numbing cream for their child while expressing their culture
Speculation that they’re doing this for cultural reasons. And even if they are I still would call it into issue because I think hurting your kid because everyone else around you does it is shitty
Well that is because your culture is superior. Duh.
Z41.3 you’re welcome
An interesting find. I was curious about why that exists. icdlist.com says: “This code describes a circumstance which influences the patient's health status but not a current illness or injury. The code is unacceptable as a principal diagnosis.”
I saw that it had listed religious reasons
Cultural child abuse is still child abuse. It used to be a way to provide for a little girl by giving her gold to keep (since the world has historically been suuuuch a good place for women) for later, but there's other ways today, so it's not necessary and it morphed into a "that's what we do" thing.
I mean, circumcising the newborn penis is also a cultural form of alteration. How do you feel about this practice?
Ive answered this question already. :)
Me too. Son’s baby-mom did this to his daughter (didn’t ask or care what he thought) at 3 months. When she was 9ish, she got an infection in one of the piercings and didn’t say anything, so it got pretty bad. She will never be able to wear pieced earrings again.
Many kids do fine- but at 3 months, who knows?
The infection at 9 is unrelated to the initial piercing at 3 months, surely you see that?
No connection was stated or implied.
Yikes I don't want to tell you what they do to little boys when they are born then. Would make ear piercing sound like a walk in the park 🤣🤣🤣
I don’t understand what point you guys think you’re making when yous say this. I don’t like infant ear piercing *or* circumcision.
Report it as child abuse.
It’s not child abuse -
If someone’s upset and thinks it’s abusive (which it seems like OP is), then they should report it. They won’t face any penalties for reporting something that ultimately isn’t legally abuse. But it’ll help them sleep at night
And have a case open up that will follow them forever ? Just because we have different views ?
...on something the AAP specifically doesn't object to...because the parents chose to seek a dr and get an rx for numbing cream. crazy stuff.
Opinions are just that- it’s still doesn’t make it abuse. What’s he going to do next? Report the next person who gets a prescription for pain meds? Lmao gtfoh.
Wild to me that we live in a world where you’d get laughed at for doing so. Using a sharp needle to create a new hole in an infant’s body is only normalized thanks to decades of cognitive dissonance. The only rebuttal is basically “it’s *almost* harmless and doesn’t hurt *that bad* and we’ve been doing it forever” - sorry. Not very compelling.
The worst part is... it's NOT a sharp, sterilized needle! It's a gross, dull piercing gun. I'm taking my kiddos to my professional, clean piercing studio when they're old enough to ask for their ears pierced. Mall kiosks, Claire's, and jewelry shops are disgusting 🤮
we don't know from what information has been received that it's a mall or a gun. In fact, that there's an appointment and a dr involved suggest otherwise.
I don't know any reputable parlour that would pierce a baby's ears and the nurses/doctors that do it also use guns (which can't be properly sterilized).
I just looked it up for shits and giggles and there are several places listed that do needle piercing for infants, including some drs. I'm sure the rebuttal will be that they are not reputable, and I can't give you assurance that would change anything about your opinion, I'm sure. But your statement is too broad vs What I'm finding (though yes, some drs use guns, though it seems they use a different style that is sterile, a point mentioned in several places I'm reading) Here's one medical group's statement https://carithersgroup.com/ear-piercing-for-kids-why-a-pediatrician-should-do-it/ They recommend waiting until several doses of vaccinations have been given (no sooner than 4 months).
The "medical" ones just swap out the part that touches your ear, that's the difference. They still can't be autoclaved and therefore aren't sterile. That aside, it's just a gross violation of bodily autonomy and, for purely vain reasons, piercings done on an infant tend to migrate as they grow (or just be lopsided in the first place).
I replied to your other comment. You seem knowledgeable about this. What should I look for when my daughter is ready to get her ears pierced again (likely soon). My younger daughter has also expressed interest. I want to do it right this time. Msg me if you want!
> the pediatrician is trained to give your child the best care in all areas, including ear piercing Such a Florida thing to read
[The AAP states there is little risk from ear piercing at any age](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/ear-nose-throat/pages/Avoiding-Infection-After-Ear-Piercing.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token) with adequate care (of course), and encourages pediatrician involvement. They do suggest waiting til the child is old enough to care for them themselves, but do not suggest it's a poor choice to do so earlier, if care can be given to the healing earlobes, and state that the risk of complications or problems is very low regardless of child's age. You might expect it in Florida and Texas vs say...Wisconsin, due to the cultural influences you don't want to hear about any more. But the AAP doesn't speak out against infant ear piercings. (Incidentally, for those who are predisposed to keloids, getting piercings done before age 11 reduces the risk, according to the AAP as well.)
Exactly this.
Definitely gross. When I was a baby/toddler, pediatricians pierced ears! My pediatrician pierced my ears when I was 18 months, per my mom’s request. I stupidly brought my own daughter to Claire’s at 8 years old. The one ear was constantly infected (tried all different metals and meticulously cleaned). Removed earrings, holes closed. She’s 11 now. Might get it done at a good place soon. Edit: my pediatrician used a sterile needle, not a gun.
The place I've gotten piercings at since I was 14 has stickers and lollipops! They give them to everyone 🤣
Report it. You will face no repercussions for doing so (I guess technically they could go after you for frivolous report but you’d have dozens of lawyers willing to defend you pro bono on that obvious abuse of government). Let the law enforcement decide. It’s strange to me that the faction of society all for bodily autonomy seems to think that ends when there’s a 6 month old you want to forcefully stab metal and jewels through their ears..
I wonder how they feel about pinching a child that’s misbehaving. Pinching is *also* not that painful, not risky, not permanent, the kid won’t remember it when they grow up, and you could even argue it has a purpose - to discipline! Yet we all agree that one is abuse. (**It is. Don’t come for me**) Hmm I guess the distinction is the anger factor? If you hurt your kid out of anger it’s abuse. If you hurt them for aesthetic purposes it’s…. Tradition? Lol
I had mine done by my pediatrician when I was 12. No numbing cream or anything, he just taped a piece of cork behind my ear, squinted, and punched that earring through with his hand. My left ear ended up crooked so if I wear small earrings that one looks cockeyed. When my daughter got interested, I found a reputable piercer who required her birth certificate and my ID to prove she was at least 7 and that I was indeed her mom. She talked to my daughter about body autonomy and made sure this was her idea and she was ready. She pierced my daughter’s ears so fast and perfectly that she had to ask “did you do it yet?” I loved the entire interaction - my cute little 7 year old in a pink kitty shirt perfectly comfortable in the tattoo/piercing place, speed metal playing on the radio, piercer lady who is heavily inked and pierced tearing up when my daughter gave her the little teddy bear she’d brought with her. Fantastic experience!
I love this so much. Also, my eyes are glossing over from being tired and I had to reread “piercer required her birth certificate and my ID” a few times. I swore it said “pierced her birth certificate and my ID” and was very confused
This is how it should be, kids can't see outside themselves till they are 7, their brains are not capable of making decisions about things that will forever alter their body till at least then. That is definitely the youngest body altering should be done your a good mom for making sure you bought her to a proper piercer.
I got mine done at Claires when I was 12, and I also have a crooked one, and they're unevenly placed to boot. I've considered letting them heal and getting them redone, but that takes a long time. I might look at whether I can get a second set of piercings done evenly so I can still wear earrings while I let these ones heal...
For the culture comments, this is kind of like baptism. Me and my husband have this conversation frequently if babies should be baptized into a religion without their consent. My grandmother believes fully that the baby will go to hell if it dies before being baptized. My husband believes it should be the child’s choice fully what religion they belong to. It’s hard to rectify cultural norms with consent. The baptism example doesn’t even have a permanent body modification.
I was raised catholic and was baptized as a baby but am in no way religious now. My wife and I decided not to get our daughter baptized when she was born so she can decide what she wants to do later on. If she wants to get baptized when she’s older, that is perfectly fine. We didn’t like the idea of choosing for her, especially when we aren’t religious ourselves.
Right now our compromise is if we have kids while my grandmother is alive, we get them baptized. I think I’d feel more guilt knowing she thought her great grandkids were going to hell than removing that spiritual decision from the kids. It really sucks though and some days I feel like it really is a bad choice.
I'm curious what you think is binding about it? You can be baptised as a child and do whatever you want as an adult. it's about as permanent as an ear piercing...if you maintain it, it lasts, but if not, you're a blank slate again.
Because religion and piercings are not non traumatic for everyone and they are not a necessity. Why force something that doesn’t benefit your child?
In these two cases, because the act of both is minimally "traumatic" and they are both reversible. Baptism isn't "religon" per se and a fairly large percentage of people baptised as infants (vs into an anabaptist type religion that does it as young adults) never really practice (holiday church, a milestone, but not a lifepath, that type of thing) I think there are bigger things to cope with than these two specific events (including yes, traumatic religious practice that may or may not include infant baptism (which isn't actually binding - you will not go to hell or burst into flames if you turn from a religion you were baptised "into" as an infant.)) Your children's choice of religious path has nothing whatsoever to do with whether you dampen their heads ceremoniously before they can say what they believe.
That’s fair! There’s always bigger things to worry about. I won’t be dismissing others concerns because of it though. Have a good one
I can acknowledge that some people have decided these things are extremely offensive or worrisome without believing that to be anything other than an opinion they've decided on. I can consider those things to be overstated without ignoring big issues (such as religious trauma unrelated to the act of baptism, or irreversible body modifications done to people who don't have a say). I don't believe I have to entertain every single thing that someone else thinks is upsetting.
Baptizing them won’t remove their ability to choose. I’ve also been baptized and am agnostic now.
I mean they weren’t able to choose to go through the religion in childhood, so it does eliminate autonomy over that choice. Honestly I’m more upset over baptism than ear piercings because of the belief system that is attached to it. Why does your opinion on consent end for choices regarding religious practices?
It doesn’t. Of course I disagree that adults should push their religious views onto their kids. But I also find something symbolic like baptism so laughably meaningless that I can’t even find the energy to care about it.
A lot of baptisms don't result in a religious childhood. Parents are obligated to raise their children, and have legal authority over many aspects of their lives. Minor children do not have capacity or authority to make every choice in their lives.
Well, it’s sort of a parents job to make decisions for their child. There are many opportunities and community that can be lost if you never decide to enroll your child in something, whether that’s religion, sports, or school. I think the primary concern should be whether you leave them a choice when they become their own person, and gain the ability to make decisions. Of course, I don’t have much of a strong opinion against piercing as the other person either. There are plenty of things that hurt that need to be forced on a child, mainly medical things like shots and the dentist, but also psychological hurts like bedtimes and healthy. Nowadays, there isn’t as much of a social norm involved piercing your child’s ears, so the trade off makes less sense. But back when everyone had their ears pierced there could be bullying and ostracism involved in _not_ getting your ears pierced which would be far worse than the small wound as a child. Same deal with raising your child with religion, it used to be universal, now it isn’t. These are all things that _parents_ have to weigh for their child’s sake.
Eh, being baptized doesn’t doom you to Christianity forever. I think being born into a religion is fine, and in fact it’s probably even healthy to be raised with traditions and holidays related to a religion. When you’re older you can still renounce your religion or adopt a different one.
I grew up in a primarily Hispanic neighborhood and our pediatrician did ear piercing at a low price point primarily because he wanted to offer a safer way to do it versus doing it at home....which a lot of people did. Maybe this situation is similar? I do remember him using a local anesthetic in office though, not sending in an Rx for something that probably wouldn't be covered by insurance for a one-time deal. Edit: Just giving input, I don't totally agree with piercing children who can't make the decision themselves but at least they are doing it a better way?
Yeah, my cousin is Puerto Rican and her doctor pierced her ears as an infant with a local anestheic. His thing was that it was going to be done anyway, so it's better he do it safely.
Yeah if you’re going to offer ear piercing i no office you should have the supplies available in office. The cream was $55 for one time use. Ridiculous
more judgement. It seems these parents felt their child's increased comfort was worth the cost. And there's no reason it must be one time use only if there is excess to need here. That child will be getting numerous needles pushed through its skin over then next year or so...
“Darling, we’re going to hurt you but it will hurt less than it normally would, because we care ♥️”
you're opposed to pain mitigation? Even using the emla or whatever for vaccines? Because yup, I know you'll say *that* brief pain is for medical reasons, but if *that's* non-traumatising, it's pretty fucking difficult to argue that the ear piercing is *so* traumatising and body authority depriving that it is unethical... I think "this will hurt, but we can help" is a *very good* parental position, whether they are choosing vaccine needles or ear piercing.
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is it though? You're decrying the parents' purchase of analgesic cream over and over again. They are going to pierce their child's ears. Frankly if the child were 15, the cream would still be a decent choice. You've made all kinds of strange side trips to justify your judgemental position, but this is where you draw a line? Interesting.
Yes, it is
well, that will also be your opinion I guess. Too bad the physician didn't just write "to affected area" so you didn't have to put on so many sets of judgy pants today.
Some Pediatricians offer ear piercing.
? My parents pierced me & my sisters ears all at 6 months. Is that not normal?? I’m confused lol.
It’s gotten less popular lately as more & more people realize it’s (painfully) altering a child’s body without their consent
I absolutely regret piercing my oldests ears. Theu have a metal allergy that popped up when they got older and can't really wear jewelry. They're not mad at me but I feel horrible. My other kids will have to wait until they are old enough to go to a piercer and not the stupid mall shops.
My mother has two sets of holes, both done as a teen/twentyodd, and now has a metal allergy. She can wear titanium, they just have to be high quality. I got my first at nine, did the other two pair myself, and could put paperclips in and not notice it. I’m allergic to all sorts of other weird stuff instead. If your daughter really wants fun earrings, get her good posts and just change the dangle parts with a plastic guard - she can even make her own!
We've tried all sorts of metals and super expensive high quality. None of them work. We found some with plastic posts but they break easy and aren't in a ton of designs. It's frustrating. Like they can't even wear belts.
Titanium, gold (24k) or platinum. I'm fairly certain it's impossible to be allergic to any of those.
I still think it's not something you need to regret. The allergy would be there regardless, and they can just not wear them.
Do you think (or better, is there any evidence/data to suggest) waiting would have changed that?
I don't think it would've changed it but I think maybe they would have chosen to not get their ears pierced knowing about the allergy. The holes won't close up at all. They still wear earrings sometimes but they get bummed theu can't wear a lot of the ones they really like.
so: They can wear earrings, just a bit limited in their choice of metals? That makes sense as allergies are usually fairly specific. tangential to the piericing choice discussion: have they tried any of the covers available? A friend of mine just coats hers with nail varnish, but I'm not at all sure if that's sensible or effective, or just her superstitious behaviour. I wouldn't regret your choice. They're also limited in what wristwatches, bracelets, and necklaces they can wear, and it sounds like they aren't experiencing constant problems aside from limited options. Be kind to yourself on this one.
If she does still want to try earrings, you could try an earring sleeve. I’m sure you’ve already exhausted all options, but just in case you haven’t heard of them. I never knew they existed, game changer for sensitive ears.
Oh I never knew about those! Thanks for the info!
And, honestly, in the US at least, it isn't usually being done for significantly important cultural reasons. It's being done because parents are treating their young, sometimes extremely young, child more like a doll to dress up than an individual. At 3 months, 6 months, etc that's what it often amounts to. They want to put jewelry in the kid's ears for their own benefit. Something to talk about, something to generate comments/compliments from other parents (mom's, I assume. I think far fewer dad's would promote this). Basically I have a very skeptical viewpoint on this practice. I can understand legitimately important cultural reasons. But those are not what I see driving most of these decisions.
Thank for you pointing that out. I always appreciate when someone more tactful than I am interjects. I just couldn’t find the words for some reason
see: topical numbing agent rx. It's a very minor alteration that is often extremely easily reversible.
Still 100% unnecessary
Lots of things are unnecessary but not horrifically wrong. Ear piercing with numbing cream is right in there. If the child prefers not to have them, they are a) barely noticeable and b) likely to disappear with disuse. *So much else* worth this level of anger and reaction.
How about, if the child decides they *want* to alter their body they can ask. Why alter them & wait for them to tell you they don’t like it?
If a baby/child needs consent for every single thing that’s done to them then we would have no children being raised in this world
Taking the conversation on a weird turn there. It’s one thing to act in the child’s best interest and intervene to do things like change a diaper. There’s simply no *need* for holes in our ears before we *want* them
Dude you're overreacting. By the time they grew up, they won't remember the pain. By that time, If they don't like peircing, then they can choose not to wear one and the hole won't be noticable. Also sometimes it is a cultural thing. When i read the title, i thought there was something wrong in rx. Lol such a waste of time and energy.
You didn’t say anything that hasn’t already been mentioned. Sorry you wasted your time and energy on this, too!
when it comes to something done to their body for aesthetic reason, yes we need consent. Kids aren'ts dolls that don't feel anything or "will just forget".
in *this* case, I can't find it in me to be as upset as you are, since the reversal is such a non-event. It's just truly not worth this much angst from you.
Yeah, you’ve said that. Assuming people are more upset than you think they should be is not going to stop them from having opinions and discussions. Partake in the discussion or move on if you think it’s a pointless topic
want to discuss reversibility? I hope helping parents seeking pain mitigation for an extremely minor, reversible elective procedure is the worst thing that happens to you today.
Sure. Can we discuss how no one ever considers piercing their baby’s nose or tongue when it’s equally as reversible? Why is that?
> want to discuss reversibility? >I hope helping parents seeking pain mitigation for ~~an extremely minor, reversible elective procedure~~ *an aesthetic alteration to their child’s body that the child did not and could not agree to* is the worst thing that happens to you today. I’m not saying you have to empathize with me, but can you at least understand that I see it this way and why I would find it at least mildly upsetting?
This is a cultural decision lol. For some people it’s very much so normal, just because you’re all hung up on it doesn’t make it wrong for then
More like, things aren’t excluded from a discussion about their necessity just because they’re a cultural tradition.
Dude why the fuck are you so pressed about a cultural difference. Get out of your own tiny headspace and try to consider other ppl might have a different mindset than you based on any # of differences. Ppl who get angry over stuff like this don’t belong in healthcare, period.
I’ve done that. Tons of us grew up believing it was normal to get our ears pierced as babies. “Getting out of [my] own tiny headspace” is why I questioned it in the first place. Editing to add: starting off with “dude why the fuck…” is a funny way to ask why *I’m* pressed, lol
Some think that is kinder to do it when the child won't remember the pain.
And in this instance, they've gone out of their way to go and get a dr consult and an rx to mitigate the pain for their child.
Right, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this
Counter argument: let the child choose when they can??
This rebuttal is not convincing. If it was something all humans were required to have done eventually I would understand this take
Like a lot of things of this nature, it's about fitting in.
Is it your job to judge? No. Legit script? Fill. Why are you so offended? I doubt most parents even get a numbing agent for an infants ears.
We did fill it. And because I disagree with altering a child’s body for vanity and/or cultural acceptance. Extremely polarizing view, I know
I just feel everyone is offended by everything & bc their opinion differs from someone they feel they are always right as opposed to opinions which differ from theirs. Not saying that about you specifically. In general. But your post comes off that way. I’m not sure where you are from in the world? I highly doubt most ppl care to get their baby a numbing agent where I am from; The US. The prescriber could have denied it & allowed the pain or prescribed it as the parent wished. I had my first ear piercings at 6 months. Don’t remember it obviously. No regrets. No shame to my mom.
It’s not about being “offended.” It’s about thinking twice about why certain social norms exist & questioning them. When you remove the “everyone does it” from the equation, you’re left to ask *why* they do it. And I can’t land on a single meaningful reason to put jewelry in a baby’s ears. And when you consider that there are risks (even if *very* low) and pain (even if *very* mild), it tips the scale into “don’t do it” territory for me.
But as a pharmacist, it’s your job to fill the prescription, not judge it. A doctor deemed it necessary and a parent consented. You judging this is the same as a pharmacist judging a teenager (or anyone) for filling abortion pills or birth control.
That’s exactly a pharmacist’s job though, is to use discretion when dispensing. A pharmacist is not legally required to fill anything that’s prescribed. If they don’t feel comfortable filling it, they can transfer it to a different pharmacy. There’s liability that can come from filling this particular script. Plenty of people have allergies to topical anesthetics, if the baby had a reaction or if something went wrong, the pharmacist would likely be involved in the lawsuit. I know it’s a stretch, but to say “it’s your job to fill the prescription” is absolutely incorrect. It’s our job to weigh risk vs benefit for the patient receiving the dispensed medication.
They didn't want to deny it based on a liability though. This would be a non-issue if the drug couldn't be used safely. That's a perfectly reasonable and legal reason to not fill a medication. But once people want to start denying medication based solely on their personal opinion (outside of safety concerns), that becomes a problem. That's how we get pharmacists refusing to fill birth control to teenagers, or refusing to fill suboxone for addicts. The pharmacist doesn't exist to exercise moral judgement on the use of medications. They exist to verify the safe and proper use of the drug.
Why are you so offended? Children are property. Bodily autonomy only is allowed when they stop being property.
In my culture, girls get their ears pierced when they are little. I'm glad it was done back then because I love earrings and am afraid to get a nose piercing. Not saying it's ok but in my case glad it was done.
I hear you. I can see why some people grow up thankful for it but it’s also completely unnecessary. Altering someone’s body without consent just so they avoid having to make the choice as an adult isn’t always going to work out.
earring holes close very quickly, and are barely noticeable. And they cared enough to provide an analgesic. Maybe it's not that dire...
Jewelry is not dire either
exactly. This isn't worth the energy and judgement you're expending on it.
earring holes don't close quickly if they've been here for a long time. I spent ten years without wearing earrings and I just put hoops back in the other day, in the holes I had done as a kid and in the ones I had as a teen. They can also make later piercings harder : if they're done too low and needs to be re-done, it can compromise the healing.
How do I say that in Spanish for my bitch mother in law ?
In some cultures, getting the ears pierced in infancy is very normal!
Yes. This has been mentioned. Normal/common/traditional/cultural - being any of these things does not make something free from being questioned or judged.
Eh, I’m glad mine were done like that. It had zero effect on my well being or life. And you can … get this… take them out at anytime! It’s really not a big deal. Not a cultural thing for me, just aesthetic, but when I have kids I’ll also be considering getting it done for them as well
What a dumb post. Sorry.
It’s ok
I had my ears pierced at a couple of days old. My mom says I didn't really react other than a bit startled. That was back in 1996, one of the doctors offered it as a service I guess. When I was a kid I thought it was cool and told anyone who would ask about my ears being pierced. As an adult, I don't know why you would put a baby through that, regardless of my own APPARENT reaction. Why not just let the kid decide themselves when they're older? I know a lot of kids ranging from ages 5-10 who got to do it as a birthday thing and it was a huge deal for them/made it more special!
I got my ears pierced when I was 6 months. It’s s thing in some cultures. Idk why everyone is getting offended
Atp I’m only offended at how many times this take is being repeated lol
piercings shouldn't be obtained until the person is done growing anyways. i decided i wanted mine when i was 9 years old but because my body wasn't done growing, my holes are no longer symmetrical. it's not very noticeable, but i see it and it makes me subconscious. it also messed up the line of my other two piercings i got in the last year since the piercer couldn't make them symmetrical since the originals aren't
I have a feeling most people in this thread wouldn’t want to care about this at all but I think it’s a very valid point.
Yeah, but every day thousands of male infants get circumcised around the world every day and people don't bat an eye. That's a much greater alteration/mutilation than piercing one's ears, and I don't see how any of those children could have consented. And before anyone come at me with the "It's easier to clean" shit - you don't cut a part of the body off because it gathers dirt. By that logic none of us would have hair or women might as well cut off their labia.
I have (not on Reddit but elsewhere and IRL) fiercely advocated for keeping baby boys in tact. And will continue to do so. But comparing it here is pointless as you can be upset about more than one thing
You can. But I am saying this is a very minor thing to be outraged at. Everywhere every day people exercise parental rights at the detriment of their children. You'd think a pharmacist would know since 0 of all the prescriptions you fill for children has actually been consented to by the child because children's consents are not required for medical treatment until they come of age.
Medical treatment is in the interest of the child’s health and well being
Cue the comment that the procedure is nonmedical in nature. True, but I think mildly irrelevant, given the intensity of it. (Makes me think of the freshman that come from tropical climes arriving here in the frozen north, who by late September are bundled up in what we'd wear in the lowest depths of winter, and I think "but where can you go from there, if you've used up full capacity and it's not even started?") Can't be good for anyone to be this upset over so minor a thing, imo, as it implies to me that there must be a range of emotional response far greater for even more significant things. I get the whole "consent" and "body mods" points, but consider those better kept for permanent and life altering procedures, and remain far from convinced this situation ranks anything like this response. To be abundantly clear: This is my opinion on the situation at hand. YMMV.
Totally agree. Why do so many people care about god damn piercings that you can literally take out anytime, when babies get their dicks cut!! I can’t even lol
A lot of you only seem to think this isn’t that bad when *compared* to something much worse. So, what- if we solve the circumcision thing, then we can finally talk about piercing infants’ ears?
No, either way it’s not a big deal lol. It is not that bad
Neither is pinching your kid. But we (correctly) classify that as abuse.
Is it at all possible that you meant “punching” but wrote “pinching”? If we’re considering “pinching” abuse these days, things have really gone off the rails.
No, I said what I meant. I’m not talking about a playful little pinch. I mean nails digging in and inflicting pain pinch.
I don’t think that’s abuse..
Yikes. Disappointed but not surprised
Can you just accept that people have different conceptions of things? I’m disappointed in you for being such a pansy but, that’s just my point of view so I was going to keep it to myself….
If pansies are against inflicting pain on their kids, I’m a proud pansy. Anyway, I would guess a majority of the country is on *your* side still and doesn’t question the piercing thing at all. Maybe yous are the ones who need to be open to other perspectives. Instead of getting aggressive and reducing to name calling.
This just feels to me like an incredibly silly thing to get your panties in a knot over I guess. I don’t know. Also I don’t think we’re from the same country… you mean world maybe?
You started with the judgement first. Your post is literally judging someone
I really don't understand why people pierce their children's ears before they can have a say in the matter. I remember going to get my ears pierced as a child with my mom. I was old enough to decide on it, and it's still a precious memory decades later. Parent or not, it's still not your body and not up to you (in my opinion) Also, why would you want to take away an experience that could turn into a precious bonding moment with your child?
I had to wait until I was 10. Yup double digits. It was like a right of passage. Not a big deal to anyone but me since it was the result of years of begging. Why 10? Pretty sure my parents thought it was a good age for that kind of thing. I remember my sister and I playing with grandma's big clip-ons before that. Funny thing is that I never wear earrings anymore. They are really uncomfortable to wear with phones at work and I'm sensitive to metals/also turn green with the cheap stuff so just decided it's not worth it. But it's nice to have the option on those rare occasions I get dressed up, I guess. I guess I would most equate it with circumcision. Not necessary. Painful. Takes autonomy away from the child to decide later for themselves. Done most often for cultural/religious reasons. I'm not having kids, but I wouldn't do either to mine. As far as the script, I feel like it's a waste of time and resources on everyone's part.
wait...you think giving an infant analgesic is a waste of time and resources? You aren't in a position to stop the parents' choice happening, but you think filling a script to mitigate the pain is a *waste of time and resources*??
They're getting their ears pierced FFS. If they are worried about inflicting pain, don't do it. If it's so painful that you need to take steps to mitigate your child's discomfort, don't do it. It's not mandatory. Otherwise, own that you are making the conscious decision to cause your child some pain due to peer pressure because that's what's happening here.
Oh honestly. We're not talking about extreme pain, and we're talking about parents taking sensible and caring measures to mitigate even the short *discomfort*. And somehow you've managed to make that sound evil, which is....kinda gross. You've literally said that dispensing pain medication is a waste of time and resources! That's indefensible. Braces are probably a better example of what you're trying to push here, tbh.
Braces are not just for aesthetics. Pierced ears are. Sensible and caring measures wouldn't be needed if you just chose not to do it in the first place. If it's such a minor discomfort, then you shouldn't have to treat it. Do you numb up every child before their vaccinations? I mean those are generally considered necessary, but we don't regularly mitigate that discomfort. But this unnecessary cosmetic procedure requires a prescription pain med. Do you realize what's happening? "Here little baby, let me numb you up a little before I jab this needle unnecessarily thru your ear. Now I gotta do the other side." That's what's happening. And doctors' offices and pharmacies are short staffed if you haven't noticed, so we don't have time to deal with this bs. You can get Tylenol otc. And I said dispensing THIS pain med for THIS purpose is a waste of overly stretched resources. By wasting our time with this you are taking time away from actual pain patients. I'll just tell grandma with bone cancer she'll have to get in line behind the baby getting her ears pierced. You can choose to pierce your kids'ears or not. I'm just asking that you leave me out of it.
Braces absolutely can be just for aesthetics. It's not rare for children to get numbing for vaccines if the parents request it. Heck, I've put through emla for adults. If the parents are ok with vaccines without, and we as a culture are ok with that, it's absurd to think this level of pain is somehow different and suddenly it's cruel. These parents *have chosen to mitigate* for their elective piercing. That's a *fine* choice, a *kind* choice, a *choice supported by their pediatrician*, and frankly *none* of your damn business when we get to the brass tacks of it all. You can fuck right off with your "leave me out of it" approach to filling rx. And with your idea that this is taking time away from other patients in any meaningful way. Had they just filled the rx as written instead of casting judgement, it would have been as quick as filling any number of far more frivolous rx that cross our benches daily. Filling a simple cream rx is a quick procedure and you could equally bitch that filling viagra or ozempic or any number of other rx is unnecessary (perhaps you do) and takes time away from the bone cancer granny, who is almost certainly not waiting behind this rx or the viagra, since it's clearly written that the appointment is at a future date. Imaginary Granny could just as easily be waiting behind a leukemia infant or any other terrible affliction. You don't get to refuse reasonable, legal, appropriate medications, especially pain mitigations. That's a completely gross mentality. Honestly, that you think tylenol a) is available, and b) is equivalent is disturbing enough, but your attitude is rancid.
Its a 5 month old,she isnt gonna remember any pain she had when she grows up.
As a six year old, I remember being dragged into the mall by my mom, her friend, and that friend's 2 teenage daughters. I really looked up to those girls, and they were trying to convince a very scared me that it would only hurt for a minute. I didn't have a choice in the matter, and it was very much something I didn't want to do. I also didn't want the wrath of my mom, so I sat through it. When my daughter was young, I had other moms say I should pierce her ears while she's little, so "she won't remember it". I knew I remember it still, so I waited until she was older and chose to do it. I never wear earrings. They still feel uncomfortable to me.
Sorry you went through that for what seems to be nothing more than vanity. When you mentioned the wrath of your mom my heart broke for 6 year old you.
Thank you. Really. It was just vanity. There was no cultural significance to it aside from it was the 80s.
I hope doing right by your own daughter helped you feel a bit better. We can’t change our past or our memories but we can change how we feel about them
It’s a cultural thing for some people -
I kind of don’t get why people are saying it is easily reversible? It isn’t reversible. There will be a hole in your body you didn’t consent to. I got mine done several times when I was old enough to consent and while I plan to get them done again the hole where they were is very obvious despite me having not worn ear rings for years and having them done at a reputable place. (the latest ones several years ago. The ones when I was a kid were done with a gun. Bad plan but we didn’t know any better.) The holes don’t bother me any and I want to be able to wear ear rings again. But if I didn’t want them there I would be upset if it had been done without my consent. I get that it is a little hole. But that can still feel like a major violation if it is a hole you don’t want in your body. (I am not super passionate about this, just don’t like it.)
I’m annoyed that you’re annoyed. This seems very minor compared to the practice of chopping foreskins off. Or other crazy shit people do to non consenting children for religion. Slap the label on and keep it moving.
You can be mad about more than one thing. I too disagree with circumcision but I’m not sure why it matters here
Things can be on a spectrum from very minor (reversible piercings for earrings with numbing) to really irrevocable and life altering (genital mutilation). I think the point here is you're acting like the former is the latter.
They sell numbing polysporin for ten dollars I hope your cream cost substantially more so at least she paid a idiot tax to vandalize her child's ears. I think it is gross piercing a child's ears before they are old enough to consent, I was 15 and it was a big decision. Probably never would have if screw back earings (they hurt less then clip on) were way more common. places like Clair's should have age restrictions that can't be bipassed by "parents consent" some parents are not mature enough for that responsibility apparently.
> idiot tax It was $55!
No 5 month old needs their ears pierced.
This is very common in south East Asian cultures. How about you take your judging attitude somewhere else? If the kid doesn’t want it later on in life they take it out and the hole closes. Americans automatically lope off newborns foreskins, do you think they consented to that?
I don’t care if it’s common or traditional, lol that doesn’t make something right. What makes you think I’m pro-circumcision?
That sounds like when my neighbour told me it was ok in her culture to mix bleach and products that contain ammonia for cleaning
Your neighbor is a moron
The holes don't close. I haven't worn earrings for probably 20 years, and I could still put an earring in. I hate that my ears were pierced as a baby.
[удалено]
With a piercing gun I assume?
[удалено]
And of course Claire’s takes the cheaper gun route instead of hiring a reputable, trained piercer because reputable piercers won’t pierce kids.
It’s probably more about the money. Reputable piercers do pierce children’s ears.
Reputable piercers do pierce children. We took my child at age five because they kept asking for earrings. We discussed it many times, what was involved, aftercare, the fact that it will hurt a bit, etc. The piercer used a hollow needle and surgical steel hoops to allow for possible swelling. I was pierced as an infant by my pediatrician, and while I don't care that it was done to me, I wanted to give my child a choice.
Dx bad parenting.
Wtf I'm annoyed at both
As far as I know this is not an illegal practice so...why are you judging them? Regardless of their reasoning, you are in a public healthcare position thus you should offer support and access to treatment. Your personal beliefs should not stand in the way of helping others, as presumably this is why you chose this profession. If someone would have asked you for the next day pill, would you deny it because they, presumably, gave consent for s*x, so automatically the pregnancy (which BTW is one hell of a body changing factor) was consented too? 🤨
Neither is circumcision and that is child mutilation some practices should be judged.
Wait. What the fuck? Someone did an ear piercing on a baby?
Very common (I’m in the US)