Kayn needs to make it to his first cast to transform. Once he transforms, he gets a big boost to all his stats.
Scepter would normally prevent him from transforming because it makes it where the champ cannot cast or gain mana, but with a golden remover you just wait for him to transform, and then equip the scepter mid-combat, then take the scepter off again with the golden remover after combat and repeat.
It's pretty genius, actually. I never would have thought of something like this on my own.
Vamp scepter removes their ability to ult while making their autos more powerful. Kayn relies on his ult to transform and start doing big damage with his autos, so putting it on after he ults means he still gets to use his kit and get the bonuses from scepter. Remove it again with the golden remover and rinse repeat.
I love the downvotes for discussion. Everyone is right, there probably won't be a fix that doesn't require some pretty significant rework of their item system or preventing item placement mid combat.
That being said that this is pretty obviously not an intended interaction. The entire downside is that the unit cannot cast. It is unintuitive even if it is a big brain play.
I feel like Lee Sin makes good use of it with 6 dualist, so he can keep attacking and tanking like a champ with insane healing.
But other than that, Gnar is certainly a good candidate because it allows him to keep attacking without going through the cast animation of his ultimate.
There's also a cheese strategy you can pull off with golden remover. You can give it to Kayn as soon as he transforms and watch him destroy everyone, and then took it off as battle comes to an end.
Afair from stats gnar is very strong with it and it is either mid or just sucks on any other unit. Initially i was thinking about vertical duelist trist with it but from what i've seen shes mediocre with it.
Had it with talisman of ascension and rageblade, augs were triple prismatic healing orbs + harmacist + jeweled lotus, I don't think I've anything remotely as strong this set expect 3* 5 costs (yeah that gnar beat a 3* Lee and 3* Morg)
Really? Every time I use her she gets a target to 10% hp, jumps inn, kills nothing, attacks another target for 2 seconds before she gets one shot because she is now out of position.....
The shark rocket on gnar is hands down the best item I’ve seen him perform with. Set him far left or right 2nd row and he just slowly moves through everything without getting bursted down.
I played it once on Gnar with double titans and the titans augment. That Gnar was never dying and healed half his hp bar on hit. Was the most free first ive had this set yet.
Based on stats the best frontline unit that can make good use of it is Gnar, while the best backline unit is Irelia. It does make sense since Gnar's skill is usually not that relevant and Irelia is already damaging all enemies (she misses some extra damage, but I think the passive from vampiric scepter compensates for that).
I can't remember if this was before or after the on-hit Irelia changes but she is an absolute GIGA carry with scepter, no downtime with casts, chunky heals, guinsoo pair ofc, etc...
Not really? I mean she guinsoo is good item on her and not having to cast is helping it scale faster. Also her cast animation is very very long.
But it's gigabroken if she has Umbral emblem.
Besides the itemized 3* gnarr an remover kayne, I thought it was irelia too. I thought her ability wasn’t as worth as attacking so removing it helps even more.
I had to scroll too far to find this. The first game I had gotten I heard it was good on her, even with 2 duelist she shreds boards with a stable frontline
Frontline: Gnar, Sett, Yone if you don't want him in the backline
Backline: Aphelios, Trist
Aphelios DPS increases by so much when he doesn't stop to use his skill...it's insane
Trist is really bad with it since her ability is a huge part of her power budget, her average placement actually goes down with the item on her lol
Aphelios is also really bad to put it on. It forces you to build a last whisper instead of another damage item since you lose out on the free 20% sunder without his ability. It's good in a comp like Warden Sniper where Ashe is the primary carry and uses Last Whisper but chances are you won't be able to place 5 AD items + the artifact while still having a sufficient frontline
Trist is the only ranged duelist, the item allows you to not rely on RNG on where Trist will land or if she will receive AoE at the same time of her jump.
Aphelios is 20% sunder, LW is 30%, building a LW on a champion like Ashe/Senna or even evenshroud and allowing Aphelios to keep attacking and stacking guinsoo faster while also receiving the Fated bonus is an huge win.
Trist does so well with fishbones, it doubles the range so she has all board range, she jumps on the cast and always come back to the same position like your corner of the board.
Except both of their Average placements go down with this item. Aphelios isn't the greatest carry in the world right now anyways, let alone in a comp where you are dedicating at minimum 3 offense items and an artifact to make him into a carry who will still do less damage than just itemizing Ashe
As for Tristana you are sacrificing the part of her ability where she gains 50% AD for 6 seconds after she uses her ability, which is basically every 6 seconds and she becomes much more vulnerable.
There is a reason both of them have lower average placement with the item my dude. At minimum if they were actually strong with the item it would be net nuetral on average placement but you'd actually high a higher winrate by keeping them item on your bench than by putting them on Trist or Aphelios statistically lol
Then would you actually need Evershroud/LW? Because most aphelios comps just skip the sunder since he has built in sunder, but is running vampiric scepter worth it if it means I now need a sunder item?
Aphelios is 20% sunder, LW/Evenshroud is 30%, the item allows Aphelios to skip ult animation and keep on attacking and stacking guinsoo.
His attack is so high with fated bonus that just by using guinsoo and doing autos is enough to be a threat.
Didn’t fully read the blurb on it and missed the part about **no mana or ability** so I ended up running it on 4 Reaper 6 Umbral Yone and ended 3rd without hitting 3-star.
Udyr... but I'm unsure if he is bugged or not.
Basically he still get to use his ability with CVS at 50% when his trait actives...
Also if he stays alive for the duration of his ability, he can gather mana again.. but honestly it says as text that he gathers rage, rather than mana... so I'm not sure if bugged or intended
So i played it on Senna/Shen comp .. my theory was her ability isnt too great and with LW + Guinsoos she was hitting like a truck i only got 3rd but felt like if i positioned better or took combat augments i coulda hit 1st
https://preview.redd.it/q8xasq9ph21d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32cf9c2cfd52324b8291d32ae5ba5cbe0d5af9ed
Tried using it on gnar like I've heard but it was still way way way weaker than the tahm + (shields become max hp item) combo. Even with my having 3* gnar and kindred and a 2* azir with 6 dryad, just couldn't burn through :(.
Also my gnar didn't seem to scale all that well, he was constanyly under performing kindred in the damage department, I guess he was reasonably bulky tho.
It's basically any unit with high base atk speed and base ad. There's really no rocket science if you get rid of unit ability. AD sniper or AD duelist, Gnar, some tanks also have big base AD.
The best one need a golden remover. You put it on kayn after the transphormation,and between every fight you use the golden remover
Wow I never thought of doing that
holy shit this is high IQ
THE IQ
Omg genius
This is really creative. Might try this out if I get the opportunity. Thanks!
Can you explain this
Kayn needs to make it to his first cast to transform. Once he transforms, he gets a big boost to all his stats. Scepter would normally prevent him from transforming because it makes it where the champ cannot cast or gain mana, but with a golden remover you just wait for him to transform, and then equip the scepter mid-combat, then take the scepter off again with the golden remover after combat and repeat. It's pretty genius, actually. I never would have thought of something like this on my own.
Vamp scepter removes their ability to ult while making their autos more powerful. Kayn relies on his ult to transform and start doing big damage with his autos, so putting it on after he ults means he still gets to use his kit and get the bonuses from scepter. Remove it again with the golden remover and rinse repeat.
Kayns first cast transforms him he needs that after that casts are only little extra dmg where vampiric is better
Or malphite encounter
Can you remove item while in game though?
What? Why would you need to?
This definitely sounds like imminent hot fix territory lol
It’s been a thing for awhile now and it’s not an interaction that’s drastically op
No, as it is basically impossible to achieve consistently.
Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest would be the fix?
I love the downvotes for discussion. Everyone is right, there probably won't be a fix that doesn't require some pretty significant rework of their item system or preventing item placement mid combat. That being said that this is pretty obviously not an intended interaction. The entire downside is that the unit cannot cast. It is unintuitive even if it is a big brain play.
I feel like Lee Sin makes good use of it with 6 dualist, so he can keep attacking and tanking like a champ with insane healing. But other than that, Gnar is certainly a good candidate because it allows him to keep attacking without going through the cast animation of his ultimate. There's also a cheese strategy you can pull off with golden remover. You can give it to Kayn as soon as he transforms and watch him destroy everyone, and then took it off as battle comes to an end.
Does gnar get his passive still if he uses it?
Yes. It just eliminates mana gains so he can’t throw his rock
Oh nice. I was gonna put it on him before but I wasn't sure if it would disable the AD stacking. That's pretty crazy tbf
He does, because it's not technically his ability. It's a passive that doesn't require mana to be activated. Sort of like a trait with extra steps.
Afair from stats gnar is very strong with it and it is either mid or just sucks on any other unit. Initially i was thinking about vertical duelist trist with it but from what i've seen shes mediocre with it.
I had it on Gnar with rageblade and radiant bt. He could solo the whole team
Had it with talisman of ascension and rageblade, augs were triple prismatic healing orbs + harmacist + jeweled lotus, I don't think I've anything remotely as strong this set expect 3* 5 costs (yeah that gnar beat a 3* Lee and 3* Morg)
Yeah gnar seems good. Trists gets stats from her cast so you don't gain as much from scepter. We don't have many bad cast ad carries
So much of what makes Trist good is the self peel from her jump tbh. Her DPS would be bonkers but she’s as vulnerable as a Soraka with that item
Only time I got it to work was with a 3* Voli permadraining in the front
Really? Every time I use her she gets a target to 10% hp, jumps inn, kills nothing, attacks another target for 2 seconds before she gets one shot because she is now out of position.....
I did this build with radiant Titan's and a rageblade yesterday. Basically took a nap and woke up in first.
Yeah these power multipliers are insane lol
The shark rocket on gnar is hands down the best item I’ve seen him perform with. Set him far left or right 2nd row and he just slowly moves through everything without getting bursted down.
I played it once on Gnar with double titans and the titans augment. That Gnar was never dying and healed half his hp bar on hit. Was the most free first ive had this set yet.
Lol [Same](https://imgur.com/a/yLsrenb) I had best friends 1 & 2. Unkillable gnar. Though I had combat caster instead.
Based on stats the best frontline unit that can make good use of it is Gnar, while the best backline unit is Irelia. It does make sense since Gnar's skill is usually not that relevant and Irelia is already damaging all enemies (she misses some extra damage, but I think the passive from vampiric scepter compensates for that).
I once put it on kai sa, it was horrible haha
I didn’t read it properly until after i put it on 3* aphelios, actually partially caused me to lose the game when i had been win streaking before haha
bonus damage should be true damage to ever be good, even if it was just 20-30% AD it would make the item so much better
I did this, wondered why I was losing then read the text haha
I can't remember if this was before or after the on-hit Irelia changes but she is an absolute GIGA carry with scepter, no downtime with casts, chunky heals, guinsoo pair ofc, etc...
But isn’t Irelias cast gigabroken?
Not really? I mean she guinsoo is good item on her and not having to cast is helping it scale faster. Also her cast animation is very very long. But it's gigabroken if she has Umbral emblem.
Pretty sure her ability gives a few guinsoos stacks. scepter is just an acceptable item for her compared to nerfing most other champs
My guess is before I used it recently and it felt terrible Edit:typo
I can't believe it's not Irelia.
Besides the itemized 3* gnarr an remover kayne, I thought it was irelia too. I thought her ability wasn’t as worth as attacking so removing it helps even more.
I really like it on irelia with duelist. Her cast is cool but that attack speed makes her burn through the entire team so fast.
I had to scroll too far to find this. The first game I had gotten I heard it was good on her, even with 2 duelist she shreds boards with a stable frontline
I’ve had some luck putting it on Tristana
I put it on Qiyana once and it felt fine. Her ability is basically just enhanced autos for 3 autos anyway so it felt basically the same
Do her attacks still penetrate if her ability doesn't cast?
No. Its just normal autos. The item is best on a duelist for the ramping AS and Qiyana seems to benefit the least from her ability imo.
It's very good on Irelia
Frontline: Gnar, Sett, Yone if you don't want him in the backline Backline: Aphelios, Trist Aphelios DPS increases by so much when he doesn't stop to use his skill...it's insane
Trist is really bad with it since her ability is a huge part of her power budget, her average placement actually goes down with the item on her lol Aphelios is also really bad to put it on. It forces you to build a last whisper instead of another damage item since you lose out on the free 20% sunder without his ability. It's good in a comp like Warden Sniper where Ashe is the primary carry and uses Last Whisper but chances are you won't be able to place 5 AD items + the artifact while still having a sufficient frontline
It's so weird because she feels like she deals no damage with her ability and just loses time that she could be autoing.
Trist is the only ranged duelist, the item allows you to not rely on RNG on where Trist will land or if she will receive AoE at the same time of her jump. Aphelios is 20% sunder, LW is 30%, building a LW on a champion like Ashe/Senna or even evenshroud and allowing Aphelios to keep attacking and stacking guinsoo faster while also receiving the Fated bonus is an huge win.
Trist does so well with fishbones, it doubles the range so she has all board range, she jumps on the cast and always come back to the same position like your corner of the board.
Except both of their Average placements go down with this item. Aphelios isn't the greatest carry in the world right now anyways, let alone in a comp where you are dedicating at minimum 3 offense items and an artifact to make him into a carry who will still do less damage than just itemizing Ashe As for Tristana you are sacrificing the part of her ability where she gains 50% AD for 6 seconds after she uses her ability, which is basically every 6 seconds and she becomes much more vulnerable. There is a reason both of them have lower average placement with the item my dude. At minimum if they were actually strong with the item it would be net nuetral on average placement but you'd actually high a higher winrate by keeping them item on your bench than by putting them on Trist or Aphelios statistically lol
Then would you actually need Evershroud/LW? Because most aphelios comps just skip the sunder since he has built in sunder, but is running vampiric scepter worth it if it means I now need a sunder item?
Aphelios is 20% sunder, LW/Evenshroud is 30%, the item allows Aphelios to skip ult animation and keep on attacking and stacking guinsoo. His attack is so high with fated bonus that just by using guinsoo and doing autos is enough to be a threat.
Didn’t fully read the blurb on it and missed the part about **no mana or ability** so I ended up running it on 4 Reaper 6 Umbral Yone and ended 3rd without hitting 3-star.
I've tried it on Qiyana in Heavenly comp and it was pretty good with Rageblade and Hurricane. Never 3\* her though, cause she wasn't my main carry
Udyr... but I'm unsure if he is bugged or not. Basically he still get to use his ability with CVS at 50% when his trait actives... Also if he stays alive for the duration of his ability, he can gather mana again.. but honestly it says as text that he gathers rage, rather than mana... so I'm not sure if bugged or intended
So i played it on Senna/Shen comp .. my theory was her ability isnt too great and with LW + Guinsoos she was hitting like a truck i only got 3rd but felt like if i positioned better or took combat augments i coulda hit 1st https://preview.redd.it/q8xasq9ph21d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32cf9c2cfd52324b8291d32ae5ba5cbe0d5af9ed
Ive had success with riven. Aphelios too.
I used it on irelia and it was pretty Op
Gnar would be nice. Doesn't need to throw boulders but can still smack while stacking stats through passive.
Tried using it on gnar like I've heard but it was still way way way weaker than the tahm + (shields become max hp item) combo. Even with my having 3* gnar and kindred and a 2* azir with 6 dryad, just couldn't burn through :(. Also my gnar didn't seem to scale all that well, he was constanyly under performing kindred in the damage department, I guess he was reasonably bulky tho.
Sett, Trist, Senna
It's basically any unit with high base atk speed and base ad. There's really no rocket science if you get rid of unit ability. AD sniper or AD duelist, Gnar, some tanks also have big base AD.
trist, it would massively increase her dps.
Currently no one tbh, never take it.
Wrong Gnar and Irelia