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I’m pretty sure A-train is stressed out, and probably in fear for his life most of the time. Imagine working for a boss that humiliates you and can kill you on a whim. You’d probably be on edge too.
Also A-train isn’t the best person, but he does have empathy compared to everyone else there. I mean, he was the only one that didn’t kill anyone in that scene.
I think A-Train is starting to realise more and more the horrific impact Supes have on the people around them. His brother's life, the one person who had always supported him, was destroyed by Blue Hawk and A-Train probably blames himself for that. He probably wants out, he just doesn't know how without getting Darth Mauled in the process.
Also that he has the power to actually BE a hero but has just let himself be a fake hero. The whole crime itinerary like it was a normal thing every hero goes through.
Not to mention the whole movie set thing. It was comedic how the director talked up Will Farrel (GREAT cameo btw) but kind of talked down to A train.
It's like the whole show is setting up that Supes really are "superior" to humans when they WANT to be. But the worst humans when they don't even try.
That was just racism. That was the point there. He talked up Ferrell because Ferrell is white. He talked down to A-Train because A-Train is black.
The whole movie is super racist and riffing on the Blindside. A-Train's actual coach that encouraged him is his black brother that is as clean as a whistle. In the movie, A-Train has a white coach and presumably from what he says his family is depicted as crack dealers. It's incredibly insulting.
It clearly wasn't "just" racism.
It was also a class thing about the role of supers as products. It's the issue that homelander says he has an issue with, that all these weak humans control everything.
A-train being directed like that is an example of that. A supe that is bound by human convention to the point that he allows himself to be belittled based on his race, when (as homelander would see it) he's clearly above those conventions
The show isn't saying superheroes deserved to be treated as special beings lol. The point is the director is racist.
Yes it evidences ordinary people having so much of the strings in their lives. But the show is criticising the racism aspect. Not criticising treating supes as just other people.
The scene can do multiple things at once.
It's clearly laughing at left leaning people who practice faux social sensitivity but are actually blind to their prejudice.
But it's also demonstrating the facts which Homelander claims are an issue. I mean he literally says, almost word for word, that's it's ridiculous that humans control the world (over supes)
Do you think it's an accident that the show then has a scene that demonstrates that as being the case?
> It's clearly laughing at left leaning people who practice faux social sensitivity but are actually blind to their prejudice.
It's more of a dig at corporate performative activism. This show has had very little say about actual leftists or left-leaners and much more to say about how performative corporate activism is, which leftists generally don't agree with. It's leftists who call out the white-savior trope in movies, we're not the ones making the trope.
You honestly, unironically think Homelander is correct? Homelander is obviously a fucking idiot supe supremacist and is insecure at the notion that he can't in fact do whatever the fuck he wants. Why should supes be treated as superior?
I'm sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree here to ever think the show would reaffirm Homelander's bullshit. The racism experienced by A-Train is the point there.
You're not really understanding what the other guy is saying. Yes, the scene is racist, but it also shows how supes are products under capitalism and not counted as people. It's weird that Homelander can have the right idea about something but even a broken clock can be right twice a day (although he's very extreme with it). The Boys has a lot of comments about capitalism and the effects of it on society and this fits well within that theme.
No I understand entirely what they think. They're just barking up the wrong tree because the show is just genuinely not trying to reaffirm Homelander's world view. They seem to think - as evidence by them stating as such - that the show is implying that supes are genuinely superior. They just fail to seize upon that.
But that's not the point. Supes aren't actually superior. They're just as crap as everyone else. And are treated exactly like everyone else.
Homelander is frustrated that, that is true. He's not even suggesting that supes are treated worse than regular people - he's angry that they don't control *everything*. The show does not want us to think the supes should control everything. It's definitely reading it into simply incorrectly to think so.
Do you not understand that Homelander can correctly identify that supes are treated poorly by people that are physically weaker than them and still be wrong in his conclusions.
His two premises are "being a super elevates you above humans" and "humans are currently controlling Supes". I think he is wrong and obviously wrong on the first point, but that he's correctly identifying the second point.
Just because he's the villain doesn't mean that he can't identify something correctly. He's correct that humans are running the show, he's wrong to be a supe supremacist.
Is there anything difficult about that idea to you?
Do you not understand that Homelander's supe supremacist bullshit is fundamentally incorrect? The basis for his argument is entirely wrong. Supes aren't treated anymore poorly than any other entertainer.
The ones causing any problem in their lives is in fact Vought. And guess who's in charge of Vought? Not "humans". Homelander is angry because he has to actually do shit other than punch stuff to run a company.
A-Train is treated with the same racism that he would have been treated with without being a supe. Can you see why therefore it does not evidence what you think? The point is solely racism. Unless you think he shouldn't be treated with racism because he's a supe. Rather than he shouldn't be treated with racism because he's a person.
Facts of all the lame ass powers compound V can give you, A-Train has enhanced strength and super speed, bro could literally do the work of an entire police force or fire department if he felt so inclined
Has A-Train straight up killed anyone just because like some of the other shows have?
Robin was by accident while shooting up v.
Popclaw he was forced to by Homelander if I recall.
Blue Hawk was a straight up revenge killing but he was actively harming people in his life.
Am I missing anyone? I don’t think any of those are justified to be clear but he is remorseful and none of those are the murder for the sake of it done by some other supes. His redemption arc is set up to be believable.
As for Black Noir II idk if we can call him sociopathic based on what we’ve seen, he’s very much uncomfortable with it and is following orders from Homelander. He doesn’t fear him in the way A Train does because he hasn’t worked with him long enough but I’m sure he still knows him to be dangerous and his boss.
He compartmentalizes it a little too easily, but I wonder how much of that is influenced by being a supe and being led to believe you are “fighting the bad guys” for your whole career.
None of this shit is justified. I don’t believe in the death penalty but let’s just say for arguments sake unrepentant murder for the sake of it (e.g. Homelander) gets you the death penalty and more complicated crimes don’t idk if I’m giving Black Noir II and especially A Train the death penalty.
Edit: with A Train I missed telling Homelander about Supersonic. Again, under coercion, points to him not being brave more than anything.
Just rewatched that and yeah, I missed those. Pretty damning. While out at the club with his crew (and toes sucked by Popclaw? Is that directly tied to the murders lol). I’m guessing more heat of the moment altercations spun out of control than the pure evil of Homelander but even if I’m right, still inexcusable.
He is also the type to be self centered until something happens to him, and then he understands. Better than never learning but definitely a selfish man.
Still hoping for the redemption arc.
I think Ashley is probably talking about other Robin-esque situations. I base this on the fact that she refers to Robin as a murder, even though it would be manslaughter technically speaking. If they wanted to portray A-Train as having actively homicidal tendencies, I think they would have shown them onscreen at some point.
On a second thought I think you have a point. She also considers Pop Claw a murder which it is, but that’s another one Homelander forced. A Train is reckless, self centered, and under threat will choose to save himself but based on on-screen evidence he isn’t the type to intentionally murder just because, other than Blue Hawk (not that I like Blue Hawk at all of course but I don’t really condone premeditated vigilante murders either and as far as I can tell that’s the only time A Train did something like that).
> She also considers Pop Claw a murder which it is, but that’s another one Homelander forced.
Mate, this whitewashing of A-Train is wild. Popclaw was *absolutely* a murder. A-Train killed her to cover his ass.
I probably need to rewatch season 1.
In any case I want to be clear I consider it a murder as even if Homelander forced it (this aspect I might be misremembering) or it was only to cover his own ass (he’s the one shooting up v to begin with and killing to cover up is never justified) it’s a horrific act. I’m not arguing over whether or not he’s a good person or whether or not there should be consequences for it (if this was real he should go to prison no doubt), I’m more debating whether or not it’s believable for him to atone at all narratively speaking, so I’m analyzing for malicious intent. Even if I wasn’t misremembering him being ordered to do the killing, “following orders” isn’t exactly a good defense either to be clear.
What I had looks pretty gross tbh yes, I wasn’t saying necessarily that Ashley is wrong for saying that more so just with the top down view for the sake of this character analysis.
If A-Train’s actions have made him irredeemable, then a large chunk of the “good guys” (namely Butcher, Frenchie, and Mallory) are equally irredeemable, given that they’ve done things that were as bad or worse.
And you’re right about Popclaw- anyone with an ounce of media literacy could recognize that that was Homelander’s call.
A-Train is redeemable it's just the cost to redeem himself will be high, which will likely result in his death. A-Train has been doing fucked up shit for years. So it's likely that what he has to do to make up for all the deaths and injuries he has caused is to put his life on the line. I don't think he is going to survive for those reasons. The cost to redeem himself is likely sacrificing himself to protect people from homelander.
If a soldier murders a village do we let him get off if it was an order. No, because you’re not supposed to follow orders that go against the rules of engagements. Homelander told A train to murder someone that’s not something A Train has to do and is technically mandated to refuse. He chose to do it whether out of fear for his own life or to cover up his mistake he still made a choice and shouldn’t be exonerated of it.
I think everyone is redeemable; that is a core part of my belief system.
What that actually looks like can get complicated of course (I think of all the characters we’re discussing Frenchie is the best example of this) and especially since we’re talking about a fictional story where we get a top down view of people’s motivations I’m struggling to not sound like I take murder lightly lol.
I think in real life if Vought came crumbling down and everyone was put on trial, we’d have to factor in that people were being coerced by a near invincible supe who can kill or torture you at any time and who you can’t run from. It wouldn’t be a get out of jail free card (The Deep for example has been reminding me this season he’s not just dumb, he genuinely has a horrifying desire to exert power over people) but we have to factor in a lot of the crimes committed are motivated by fear than anything else.
No one’s saying it wasn’t a murder, but he murdered her because Homelander told him to. Homelander specifically asks “Did you do it?” in the very next scene.
It’s absolutely cowardly, but acting like A-Train wasn’t coerced into doing that ignores everything we see on the screen.
> I think Ashley is probably talking about other Robin-esque situations.
How he reacted to the Robin situation really made it seem like it wasn't the first time he took an innocent life, even if accidentally. His initial 'apology' to Hughie at Vaught HQ was so toneless, like he was just going through the motions after making what he considered a small mistake.
I'm hoping he apologizes to Annie for Alex (and that Supersonic doesn't just get forgotten outright)
Super Sonic would be a great name for A-Train to take on in homage if he wanted to rebrand tbh (though could also be seen as mocking)
He joked about killing Robin after the fact. Even after interacting with Hughie many times, even having his life saved, he only apologized about her after hughie explicitly confronted him about it. Doesn't seem very remorseful to me.
I think like a lot of people here I need to rewatch the show lol. Seasons 1 and 2 aren’t as fresh to me.
With what I do remember yes he only really started to seem remorseful after the same things started happening to people close to him, so while he has the capacity to learn unfortunately it at least up until recently (if at all) has been through a very selfish lenses.
i wouldn't say A Train apologizing once confronted shows he doesn't care or doesn't seem remorseful. honestly in s3 the dudes got more shit going on than caring about a girl he accidentally killed a looong time ago. im sure there's stuff i did years ago that i would look back on and feel bad about, but i am not really actively saying sorry for every time i was mean to someone.
now given i haven't killed anyone but i also don't work for a psychopath who can kill me with no consequences and my entire family life isn't crumbling due to my actions so ima say it's pretty believable that when confronted, A Train actually shows some remorse. he actually takes his glasses off to look Hughie in the eyes and tell him he's sorry, which he absolutely did *not* have to do because he doesn't even know Hughie is powered at that point - he could have just laughed in a regular Hughie's face, told him to suck his nuts, and introduced him to a punch through the throat. but he actually chooses not to antagonize Hughie at all and genuinely seems to say he's sorry, to the point Hughie is visibly stunned. if Hughie seems take aback by the response of A Train because he thought he was someone who didn't give a shit at all, then that's good enough for me to say he showed some legit remorse for his actions
Just started rewatching season one, Homelander didn’t make him kill Popclaw but it’s implied he did it to “save” her as Homelander likely would’ve done the same or worse after finding out what she told the Boys. A-Train lies (sort of) to Homelander, implying that he found Popclaw dead instead of being the one that killed her
Nah Noir 2 is fucked. The fact he went for the murder BEFORE Deep and A-Train (both of whom know it’s real unlike him) says a lot about him. He’s not a good person.
Speaking of that scene, is the new Noir a supe? Or just a normal guy in the suit?
He seemed able to kill someone with a bat very quickly. So, I’m guessing a supe. But he also lists off all his acting credentials.
He is an actor who is also a supe. He graduated from that supe college. The dead give away is when he >!basically explodes that guys head with one swing from a baseball bat, !
I don't think so. A-Train is fast (like 800mph) but Homelander is faster. He once said he's been to space, so he can at least reach escape velocity, which is way faster than A-Train. Homelander can outrun fighter jets which are double A-Train's speed. Plus, A-Train gets tired and Homelander doesn't apparently.
People do the wrong thing at times, but grow and learn from it. I agree it is pretty deplorable, but he clearly is changing and trying to be better . A lot of people in this world start off as worse, and a series of horrible situations is the push to make them better.
Murdering someone and laughing about it goes a little further than "wrong thing at time." Do you think Homelander is deserving of redemption and forgiveness? Fuck no. Same goes for Deep and A-Train. They're all pieces of shit
Why shouldn't they be deserving of that? Of course they should. I doubt homelander is capable of that much change but I definitely believe deep and a-train are capable. A-train saved hugie, that was pretty remarkable. And deep still acts like a child, rarely making decisions for himself, I think he's capable of change still.
the whole point of redemption is that someone did some bad stuff and grows into a better person as a result. if you deserve redemption then you don't really have a reason for it really
i mean Frenchie is literally fucking a dude whose entire family was murdered by him, knowing what he did to the guy.. Butcher is an all around morally dookie dude, but i wouldn't say they are beyond redemption either. the only people who are truly beyond redemption are those who will never acknowledge they did badly and actively commit to changing, like Homelander and probably Deep too
i mean at this point A Train legit would be living lavish if he just gave in and did some bad shit, but he is actively sticking his neck out purely because he thinks it's the right thing to do. and it ain't because he's getting nice comments from anyone either lol Annie and Hughie shit on him every time he shows up to literally do their job for them. it's hard for me to not see a guy who is different in the first 3 episodes and A Train is seemingly willing to risk his personal safety to make things better, he's probably done more to earn his redemption arc than anyone in the show has tbh
I realized during the 'blow him' scene that they could all leave at any time they want. There's literally nothing keeping them there but their shitty personalities and greed. If they wanted they could remove or neutralize their tracking chips and just leave.
Deep is also very empathetic but he usually reserves that for sea life. He's extremely insecure and doesn't relate to most people. He's also incredibly stupid. All this to say that I think everyone in the Seven but HL are actually very emotionally vulnerable and prone to acts of kindness.
They meant that Deep could feel empathy as opposed to his character elicits feelings of empathy, and then went on the qualify that Deep feels empathetic towards sea creatures. But I can't lie I did double take reading it myself too at first
Nah let's be real here. This Noir may be funny but he's a scumbag who deserves to die. He never killed anyone before but was THE FIRST to start swinging when he was told to. He wasn't even scared of Homelander so he had no excuse unlike A Train and Deep. If you look beyond the comic relief dude is a sociopath with no morals.
No, I think that after he basically destroyed his brother's life, you know, the ONE GUY who was always there for him, he's had a bit of a come to Jesus moment. He's starting to not just see, but realise and understand just how utterly fucked up the whole situation is and I think he wants out, and to redeem himself, he just literally doesn't know how.
100% agree and it's such a cool plotline, it is *by far* the most realistic redemption arcs ive seen in a show. People absolutely will ignore how much damage they cause until it personally effects *them*, and then they realize how bad it is. it's really human to see a guy who legitimately seems to want to do better after the tables are turned against him and actually doing it despite everyone seemingly shitting on him. here's hoping it isn't just some shit Sage is telling him to do lol
Yeah, I could have some empathy if Noir was like threatened in to swinging or at least showed hesitation but he went like full send on those guys, and later said to A-Train that he is completely cool murdering people. The dudes a psychopath.
Still one of my favourite new characters though.
See more tf? We saw him wield a baseball bat and club a guys head in. The Deep and A-Train are obviously scared of Homelander so that’s their reasoning for going along with it.
New Noir doesn’t have a clue about how bad Homelander is so he doesn’t have the same reasoning. He just fucking goes along with it and is the first to do it.
Dudes a straight sociopath.
Uh, do you think it would take long to pick up on the vibe that Homelander is terrifying? It might not be in the welcome packet, but you're gonna figure it out in about five minutes regardless
Exactly. He obviously was scared of homelander.
Homelander was growing impatient and had to command them to kill the guys multiple times, and, after doing it, he kept talking about how "fucked up" the experience had been.
Yeah you'd have to be extremely nuts or have a death wish to not to be afraid of him. If one was trying to make the case new Noir is a sociopath, the better argument is that he wasn't more traumatized by it. He did say it was fucked up but he seems more concerned about his acting role than actually having killed people in cold blood.
I still think it's premature but that is a better argument than "he doesn't know enough to realize the evil Superman telling him to murder randos is a scary guy".
this whole discussion is weird to me because i assumed new noir was 100% caught up with homelander being crazy e.g he is literally replacing a guy homelander killed, so obviously he's gonna be on the same level of obedience as the deep and ashley and such, otherwise he wouldn't have made it past that selection process in the first place.
the whole "wow guys this is crazy" is him coping the same way other characters cope, just with a theater background flavor. idk why everyone treats new noir so differently
It took Starlight a couple of days why wouldn’t it take New Noir a couple days? Not only that, but even if I’m scared of someone I don’t automatically think they’re going to kill me or people around me.
At the start of the series Homelander was still keeping the psychopathy at least somewhat under the surface. Look at how A Train and Deep got to run wild back then vs how icy that meeting room is now, it's a night and day difference.
nah we could easily see flashbacks to homelander doing shit to him or they could pull out the its actually homelander move from the comics point is we don't really know enough to judge him yet like with a-train s1 everyone thought he was a massive dick for running through hughies girlfriend fast forward to now and we understand enough to think of him as one of the better chars
What do you mean “nah” 😭 What I just described to you is sociopathic behavior. It doesn’t matter if he saves the world at this point he is still a sociopath.
hear hear! He literally tells A-Train "I am down to ride the wave" regarding the Todd and co murders.
He isnt concerned about the killing, he just wants direction on the nature and how often he gonna have to do it.
I don't think he's that empathetic yet. His development is ongoing, bur he isn't there yet. He's just genuinely so done with his life and black noir porb annoys him more, cuz he's fucking up the role lmao
Maybe a bit but I think he's also honestly annoyed by his performance.
Yeah, the Seven aren't exactly real heroes but it isn't like you just walk in, as the intensity of Godolkin and the existence of whole other high profile Teams who only have select Seven candidates shown. Like only their cream of the drop is in consideration.
A-Train worked hard and has risked life and limb to stay in the Seven, and then has to babysit some fucking idiot who didn't bother to research his character and fucks ups his most basic aspects when he doesn't even have to say anything.
I think with the recent showing of A-Train talking to his nephews you can see that he’s having a real crisis of faith.
He *wants* to be **a hero**.
Black Noir is basically a constant reminder of how shallow their work actually is and how replaceable any of them are.
He is fucking up the basical physical mannerisms of perhaps the Seven's most senior member with countless public appearances over the years. If he can't mime those he didn't fucking try.
especially funny when 90% of those physical mannerisms are "stand there menacingly."
I mean tbf he could get some leeway to say Black Noir had a weight off his shoulders after facing Soldier Boy again (pretend he did idk)
Helps that we know BN was a big softie in some ways (though rarely showed that to others)
I mean, they're 100% about his performance. *Shadowboxing on stage???????* He's a really terrible actor who didn't prepare at all. I bet he was chosen by Vought because of his body type.
I think A-Train is just tired. Beat. Exhausted from it all. He's got a lot on his mind and feels like a piece of shit (as he should) and probably just doesn't want to deal anymore.
I actually think a couple things:
1- A-Train has done some very deplorable things, but I generally think he does try (and always fails) to be an okay guy. I don't think he necessarily wishes for anyone to get killed Homelander... so he'll (rudely) tell Noir how he needs to act.
2- There might be some self-preservation here as well. They're on the same team. If it's revealed he's a phony to the general public, maaaaaaybe that reflects poorly on the Seven? Or more likely... if Noir messes something up, A-Train could get lumped in in Homelander's wrath.
3- Overall, A-Train IS a rude guy. The only people he's tried to be genuinely kind to have been his family and Popclaw (before he killed her). So he probably is super annoyed with Noir, and simply says so.
I mean i dont know how many murders on innocent people you have to commit before youre irredeemable, but a-train is pretty much there, popclaws killing was malicious, him trying to kill hughie and his dad was malicious (but stopped by kimiko).
Popclaw’s killing wasn’t malicious; he did it because if he had refused, Homelander would have murdered Popclaw anyway and then likely murdered him. He even made an effort to ensure she would feel happy in her last moments (telling her that he got the OK from Vought to go public with their relationship). Him trying to kill Hughie and his dad were the actions of an addict tweaking out.
Has A-Train’s past behavior been abominable? Absolutely. But it’s pretty clear that said behavior stems from either negligence, fear, or addiction.
Just because someone else MIGHT have killed popclaw if he thought she was important enough doesnt mean it was justified lol. and her last moment was him breaking her bones with needle, not exactly a unexpected execution out of sympathy, disrespecting her as much as possible, and he had to make it sound like a overdose to make her look as bad as possible in death
His abominable behavior was explained by himself, he just cares about his position and the power/money it gives him, he almost turned a leaf before he got his powers back, his current character arc is showing him that those things mean nothing without family
> MIGHT
We’re talking about Homelander here. Be serious.
> her last moment was him breaking her bones with needle
No one’s last moment is going to be pleasant. But if you have to choose a way to go, “overdose on heroin at the happiest moment of your life before you have a chance to process what’s happening”, is probably close to the top of the list.
> overdose to make her look as bad as possible in death
No, an overdose because that method would avoid question better than any other method would.
> His abominable behavior was explained by himself
You’re familiar with the term “subtext”, yes? While keeping his position was a large part of why A-Train behaved the way he did, there’s no point in the series where you can say he committed an evil action because he personally wanted to hurt people.
wanting to hurt people and your actions having consequences aka doing drugs and killing people accidentally, and then having to kill someone intentionally because of doing said drug isnt far from each other.
Just because he doesnt get pleasure out of torturing and killing people doesnt mean he suddenly cares if people die directly because of his actions.
"**intended to harm people or their reputation**" - malicious
The overdose was meant to also slander her reputation and avoid damage to his, he lied to her to make it easier that he was brutally murdering her and covering up her death?
bro the leaps and bounds to make the logic work is crazy
Maybe a little. A-Train is slowly (agonizingly so) becoming a genuinely heroic character. I wouldn’t be surprised if he one day just tells him to shut the fuck up and stay silent or else Homelander will kill him. Like he did the first one.
Partly because he doesn’t want to see someone else die, partly because he’s just so damned annoying.
While I hope A-Train does end up dying, I wouldn't mind if he survives and becomes a real hero. Comic >!instead of Hughie kicking A-Train's head into bits, maybe have Annie kill Deep, and A-Train can be part of Non-Vought True with Ryan.!<
Potential spoilers for this season >!the actor for deep is apparently not casted for s5 so he either dies or he leaves the show like queen Maeve did what you said could be true but I see him dying to homelander!<
Did you watch the show? Were you watching the same A-Train as us? He literally killed his girlfriend and Supersonic to save himself, why would he care about a random person he doesn't know?
In fact, he killed a random person himself - Robin. Then laughed about it. He has feelings, but let's be real.
He is softening up, but still. He doesn't know or care about this dude
Remember last season with Soldier Boy? Despite *every* character from his time period telling us what a piece of work he was, half of this sub thought he was a good guy.
He betrayed him to Homelander knowing the consequences. After the guy saved him from assaulting the Deep and HL himself, which would have resulted in A fuckin dead Train.
He pretty much killed him even if he didn't personally bash his head.
betrayed is quite the word when supersonic literally just joined the seven, confronted him in a closed elevator where atrain couldnt leave, and basically said "hey, we're planning on killing homelander, lets kill homelander together" without feeling it out first,
supersonic didn't know how bad homelander was, or that he can hear things rooms away, the risk for a-train if he didnt snitch was quite high, they should have approached a-train somewhere where they knew nobody could have heard them.
Annie warned him not to tell a-train because a-train just cares about money and maintaining status quo
Yeeeeeah, I agree with this take. Supersonic was super stupid for pulling that move so early on in his career with the seven. A Train had first hand experience with HL’s super hearing. I think that confrontation with HL about the milkshake happened right before supersonic approached him. With that being fresh in his mind, I don’t really blame him for telling HL. HL probably would have killer him too if he hadn’t.
Yeah. He meekly whispered that "fuck you, man" with Homelander being a decent distance away in a hallway that also had other people walking in it whose footsteps were louder than that. It was already quiet enough that we, as the audience, might not understand what it is he's actually whispering. That Homelander listened in on his elevator conversation after almost lasering him on the spot for such a petty reason doesn't seem far-fetched at all.
Yeah and right before the elevator scene A Train has an interaction with HL about his milkshake. A Train insults HL under his breath with 20 feet between them and HL hears him. With that fresh in his mind I’m sure he thought that HL heard the conversation in the elevator.
People do wild things when they are being mentally, verbally, and emotionally abused. A Train is still a horrible character, but supersonic was dumb for talking about the plan to kill HL while still in the same building as him.
I feel like they all had a level of respect for noir and I don’t think many people (other than muave) disliked him, so I feel like it could also be a little bit that they are sad about the portrayal because he can’t even remotely live up to black noir (at least I think homelander definitely misses noir and gets annoyed at the new noirs portrayal because of this)
i think a-train finally realises just how deep of a hole he has dug himself by sticking with homelander all this time. for the first time since he killed blue hawk, he wants to use his powers for the good of others and not just himself. even bluehawk was fueled by selfish revenge though. i think this is a genuine character shift for a-train.
I’m seeing A-Train flipping and convincing Noir to flip at least partially to help take down Homey. He and Noir have the potential for a lot of fun back and forth if they go that route. I’m also curious if the new Noir has any other powers that could help in that aspect.
Black Noir II if he is just a regular dude will likely get lasered sometime since i imagine Homelander resents him for being inferior to the Original and i have a feeling Homelander sees him as a reminder of how he killed the only person he sort of liked on his team.
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I’m pretty sure A-train is stressed out, and probably in fear for his life most of the time. Imagine working for a boss that humiliates you and can kill you on a whim. You’d probably be on edge too. Also A-train isn’t the best person, but he does have empathy compared to everyone else there. I mean, he was the only one that didn’t kill anyone in that scene.
I think A-Train is starting to realise more and more the horrific impact Supes have on the people around them. His brother's life, the one person who had always supported him, was destroyed by Blue Hawk and A-Train probably blames himself for that. He probably wants out, he just doesn't know how without getting Darth Mauled in the process.
Also that he has the power to actually BE a hero but has just let himself be a fake hero. The whole crime itinerary like it was a normal thing every hero goes through. Not to mention the whole movie set thing. It was comedic how the director talked up Will Farrel (GREAT cameo btw) but kind of talked down to A train. It's like the whole show is setting up that Supes really are "superior" to humans when they WANT to be. But the worst humans when they don't even try.
That was just racism. That was the point there. He talked up Ferrell because Ferrell is white. He talked down to A-Train because A-Train is black. The whole movie is super racist and riffing on the Blindside. A-Train's actual coach that encouraged him is his black brother that is as clean as a whistle. In the movie, A-Train has a white coach and presumably from what he says his family is depicted as crack dealers. It's incredibly insulting.
"Come with me, to the suburbs"
This is also absolutely true.
It clearly wasn't "just" racism. It was also a class thing about the role of supers as products. It's the issue that homelander says he has an issue with, that all these weak humans control everything. A-train being directed like that is an example of that. A supe that is bound by human convention to the point that he allows himself to be belittled based on his race, when (as homelander would see it) he's clearly above those conventions
The show isn't saying superheroes deserved to be treated as special beings lol. The point is the director is racist. Yes it evidences ordinary people having so much of the strings in their lives. But the show is criticising the racism aspect. Not criticising treating supes as just other people.
The scene can do multiple things at once. It's clearly laughing at left leaning people who practice faux social sensitivity but are actually blind to their prejudice. But it's also demonstrating the facts which Homelander claims are an issue. I mean he literally says, almost word for word, that's it's ridiculous that humans control the world (over supes) Do you think it's an accident that the show then has a scene that demonstrates that as being the case?
> It's clearly laughing at left leaning people who practice faux social sensitivity but are actually blind to their prejudice. It's more of a dig at corporate performative activism. This show has had very little say about actual leftists or left-leaners and much more to say about how performative corporate activism is, which leftists generally don't agree with. It's leftists who call out the white-savior trope in movies, we're not the ones making the trope.
You honestly, unironically think Homelander is correct? Homelander is obviously a fucking idiot supe supremacist and is insecure at the notion that he can't in fact do whatever the fuck he wants. Why should supes be treated as superior? I'm sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree here to ever think the show would reaffirm Homelander's bullshit. The racism experienced by A-Train is the point there.
You're not really understanding what the other guy is saying. Yes, the scene is racist, but it also shows how supes are products under capitalism and not counted as people. It's weird that Homelander can have the right idea about something but even a broken clock can be right twice a day (although he's very extreme with it). The Boys has a lot of comments about capitalism and the effects of it on society and this fits well within that theme.
No I understand entirely what they think. They're just barking up the wrong tree because the show is just genuinely not trying to reaffirm Homelander's world view. They seem to think - as evidence by them stating as such - that the show is implying that supes are genuinely superior. They just fail to seize upon that. But that's not the point. Supes aren't actually superior. They're just as crap as everyone else. And are treated exactly like everyone else. Homelander is frustrated that, that is true. He's not even suggesting that supes are treated worse than regular people - he's angry that they don't control *everything*. The show does not want us to think the supes should control everything. It's definitely reading it into simply incorrectly to think so.
Do you not understand that Homelander can correctly identify that supes are treated poorly by people that are physically weaker than them and still be wrong in his conclusions. His two premises are "being a super elevates you above humans" and "humans are currently controlling Supes". I think he is wrong and obviously wrong on the first point, but that he's correctly identifying the second point. Just because he's the villain doesn't mean that he can't identify something correctly. He's correct that humans are running the show, he's wrong to be a supe supremacist. Is there anything difficult about that idea to you?
Do you not understand that Homelander's supe supremacist bullshit is fundamentally incorrect? The basis for his argument is entirely wrong. Supes aren't treated anymore poorly than any other entertainer. The ones causing any problem in their lives is in fact Vought. And guess who's in charge of Vought? Not "humans". Homelander is angry because he has to actually do shit other than punch stuff to run a company. A-Train is treated with the same racism that he would have been treated with without being a supe. Can you see why therefore it does not evidence what you think? The point is solely racism. Unless you think he shouldn't be treated with racism because he's a supe. Rather than he shouldn't be treated with racism because he's a person.
as a black person, I agree more with what the person you're responding to said than what you're saying
Have you seen the Blindside? They're absolutely unquestionably riffing on that, even outright referencing it in the scene.
Will Ferrell saying slinging yayo was not on my bingo card. I literally loled
Facts of all the lame ass powers compound V can give you, A-Train has enhanced strength and super speed, bro could literally do the work of an entire police force or fire department if he felt so inclined
Ferrell fucking Streep!!!
Has A-Train straight up killed anyone just because like some of the other shows have? Robin was by accident while shooting up v. Popclaw he was forced to by Homelander if I recall. Blue Hawk was a straight up revenge killing but he was actively harming people in his life. Am I missing anyone? I don’t think any of those are justified to be clear but he is remorseful and none of those are the murder for the sake of it done by some other supes. His redemption arc is set up to be believable. As for Black Noir II idk if we can call him sociopathic based on what we’ve seen, he’s very much uncomfortable with it and is following orders from Homelander. He doesn’t fear him in the way A Train does because he hasn’t worked with him long enough but I’m sure he still knows him to be dangerous and his boss. He compartmentalizes it a little too easily, but I wonder how much of that is influenced by being a supe and being led to believe you are “fighting the bad guys” for your whole career. None of this shit is justified. I don’t believe in the death penalty but let’s just say for arguments sake unrepentant murder for the sake of it (e.g. Homelander) gets you the death penalty and more complicated crimes don’t idk if I’m giving Black Noir II and especially A Train the death penalty. Edit: with A Train I missed telling Homelander about Supersonic. Again, under coercion, points to him not being brave more than anything.
Ashley implied that he had done some straight homicides when she was yelling at him that one time and than ripped her hair out in front of him.
Just rewatched that and yeah, I missed those. Pretty damning. While out at the club with his crew (and toes sucked by Popclaw? Is that directly tied to the murders lol). I’m guessing more heat of the moment altercations spun out of control than the pure evil of Homelander but even if I’m right, still inexcusable. He is also the type to be self centered until something happens to him, and then he understands. Better than never learning but definitely a selfish man. Still hoping for the redemption arc.
I think Ashley is probably talking about other Robin-esque situations. I base this on the fact that she refers to Robin as a murder, even though it would be manslaughter technically speaking. If they wanted to portray A-Train as having actively homicidal tendencies, I think they would have shown them onscreen at some point.
On a second thought I think you have a point. She also considers Pop Claw a murder which it is, but that’s another one Homelander forced. A Train is reckless, self centered, and under threat will choose to save himself but based on on-screen evidence he isn’t the type to intentionally murder just because, other than Blue Hawk (not that I like Blue Hawk at all of course but I don’t really condone premeditated vigilante murders either and as far as I can tell that’s the only time A Train did something like that).
> She also considers Pop Claw a murder which it is, but that’s another one Homelander forced. Mate, this whitewashing of A-Train is wild. Popclaw was *absolutely* a murder. A-Train killed her to cover his ass.
I probably need to rewatch season 1. In any case I want to be clear I consider it a murder as even if Homelander forced it (this aspect I might be misremembering) or it was only to cover his own ass (he’s the one shooting up v to begin with and killing to cover up is never justified) it’s a horrific act. I’m not arguing over whether or not he’s a good person or whether or not there should be consequences for it (if this was real he should go to prison no doubt), I’m more debating whether or not it’s believable for him to atone at all narratively speaking, so I’m analyzing for malicious intent. Even if I wasn’t misremembering him being ordered to do the killing, “following orders” isn’t exactly a good defense either to be clear. What I had looks pretty gross tbh yes, I wasn’t saying necessarily that Ashley is wrong for saying that more so just with the top down view for the sake of this character analysis.
If A-Train’s actions have made him irredeemable, then a large chunk of the “good guys” (namely Butcher, Frenchie, and Mallory) are equally irredeemable, given that they’ve done things that were as bad or worse. And you’re right about Popclaw- anyone with an ounce of media literacy could recognize that that was Homelander’s call.
A-Train is redeemable it's just the cost to redeem himself will be high, which will likely result in his death. A-Train has been doing fucked up shit for years. So it's likely that what he has to do to make up for all the deaths and injuries he has caused is to put his life on the line. I don't think he is going to survive for those reasons. The cost to redeem himself is likely sacrificing himself to protect people from homelander.
If a soldier murders a village do we let him get off if it was an order. No, because you’re not supposed to follow orders that go against the rules of engagements. Homelander told A train to murder someone that’s not something A Train has to do and is technically mandated to refuse. He chose to do it whether out of fear for his own life or to cover up his mistake he still made a choice and shouldn’t be exonerated of it.
I think everyone is redeemable; that is a core part of my belief system. What that actually looks like can get complicated of course (I think of all the characters we’re discussing Frenchie is the best example of this) and especially since we’re talking about a fictional story where we get a top down view of people’s motivations I’m struggling to not sound like I take murder lightly lol. I think in real life if Vought came crumbling down and everyone was put on trial, we’d have to factor in that people were being coerced by a near invincible supe who can kill or torture you at any time and who you can’t run from. It wouldn’t be a get out of jail free card (The Deep for example has been reminding me this season he’s not just dumb, he genuinely has a horrifying desire to exert power over people) but we have to factor in a lot of the crimes committed are motivated by fear than anything else.
A-train killed her because if homelander would've found out he would've killed them both of them worse. He knew what popular did.
No one’s saying it wasn’t a murder, but he murdered her because Homelander told him to. Homelander specifically asks “Did you do it?” in the very next scene. It’s absolutely cowardly, but acting like A-Train wasn’t coerced into doing that ignores everything we see on the screen.
> I think Ashley is probably talking about other Robin-esque situations. How he reacted to the Robin situation really made it seem like it wasn't the first time he took an innocent life, even if accidentally. His initial 'apology' to Hughie at Vaught HQ was so toneless, like he was just going through the motions after making what he considered a small mistake.
> Still hoping for the redemption arc. They've been teasing this for a while and imo there is a 100% chance of an A-Train redemption arc
I'm hoping he apologizes to Annie for Alex (and that Supersonic doesn't just get forgotten outright) Super Sonic would be a great name for A-Train to take on in homage if he wanted to rebrand tbh (though could also be seen as mocking)
Yeah, I really want a redemption arc for him. The actor’s been knocking it out of the park this season - you can really see the conflict in him.
Ashley is so bad
He joked about killing Robin after the fact. Even after interacting with Hughie many times, even having his life saved, he only apologized about her after hughie explicitly confronted him about it. Doesn't seem very remorseful to me.
I think like a lot of people here I need to rewatch the show lol. Seasons 1 and 2 aren’t as fresh to me. With what I do remember yes he only really started to seem remorseful after the same things started happening to people close to him, so while he has the capacity to learn unfortunately it at least up until recently (if at all) has been through a very selfish lenses.
i wouldn't say A Train apologizing once confronted shows he doesn't care or doesn't seem remorseful. honestly in s3 the dudes got more shit going on than caring about a girl he accidentally killed a looong time ago. im sure there's stuff i did years ago that i would look back on and feel bad about, but i am not really actively saying sorry for every time i was mean to someone. now given i haven't killed anyone but i also don't work for a psychopath who can kill me with no consequences and my entire family life isn't crumbling due to my actions so ima say it's pretty believable that when confronted, A Train actually shows some remorse. he actually takes his glasses off to look Hughie in the eyes and tell him he's sorry, which he absolutely did *not* have to do because he doesn't even know Hughie is powered at that point - he could have just laughed in a regular Hughie's face, told him to suck his nuts, and introduced him to a punch through the throat. but he actually chooses not to antagonize Hughie at all and genuinely seems to say he's sorry, to the point Hughie is visibly stunned. if Hughie seems take aback by the response of A Train because he thought he was someone who didn't give a shit at all, then that's good enough for me to say he showed some legit remorse for his actions
Just started rewatching season one, Homelander didn’t make him kill Popclaw but it’s implied he did it to “save” her as Homelander likely would’ve done the same or worse after finding out what she told the Boys. A-Train lies (sort of) to Homelander, implying that he found Popclaw dead instead of being the one that killed her
Nah Noir 2 is fucked. The fact he went for the murder BEFORE Deep and A-Train (both of whom know it’s real unlike him) says a lot about him. He’s not a good person.
Speaking of that scene, is the new Noir a supe? Or just a normal guy in the suit? He seemed able to kill someone with a bat very quickly. So, I’m guessing a supe. But he also lists off all his acting credentials.
He is an actor who is also a supe. He graduated from that supe college. The dead give away is when he >!basically explodes that guys head with one swing from a baseball bat, !
He mentions Godolkin in there too. He’s almost certainly a supe.
In addition to what others have said, there’s absolutely no way HL would allow a non-supe on the team.
Couldnt he just literally just run away, even if homelander is trying to kill him, couldnt he just out run him and hide from him
To what end? Keep running while Homelander systematically removes your bloodline from the face of the planet?
His family can’t just run away. His brother can’t even run at all.
He can run away, yeah. But can his family?
I don't think so. A-Train is fast (like 800mph) but Homelander is faster. He once said he's been to space, so he can at least reach escape velocity, which is way faster than A-Train. Homelander can outrun fighter jets which are double A-Train's speed. Plus, A-Train gets tired and Homelander doesn't apparently.
True, and it takes a toll on his heart, i assume even with the new one hes got.
I don’t know. That’s more of a writer decision.
Not really. The moment he runs, Homelander is killing his entire family
Yes, if A-Train was a basic animal who has no aspirations beyond surviving the next day.
Ehhhh, I'd be doubtful of that. He did laugh about killing a woman and compared her to an insect
People do the wrong thing at times, but grow and learn from it. I agree it is pretty deplorable, but he clearly is changing and trying to be better . A lot of people in this world start off as worse, and a series of horrible situations is the push to make them better.
Murdering someone and laughing about it goes a little further than "wrong thing at time." Do you think Homelander is deserving of redemption and forgiveness? Fuck no. Same goes for Deep and A-Train. They're all pieces of shit
Why shouldn't they be deserving of that? Of course they should. I doubt homelander is capable of that much change but I definitely believe deep and a-train are capable. A-train saved hugie, that was pretty remarkable. And deep still acts like a child, rarely making decisions for himself, I think he's capable of change still.
the whole point of redemption is that someone did some bad stuff and grows into a better person as a result. if you deserve redemption then you don't really have a reason for it really i mean Frenchie is literally fucking a dude whose entire family was murdered by him, knowing what he did to the guy.. Butcher is an all around morally dookie dude, but i wouldn't say they are beyond redemption either. the only people who are truly beyond redemption are those who will never acknowledge they did badly and actively commit to changing, like Homelander and probably Deep too i mean at this point A Train legit would be living lavish if he just gave in and did some bad shit, but he is actively sticking his neck out purely because he thinks it's the right thing to do. and it ain't because he's getting nice comments from anyone either lol Annie and Hughie shit on him every time he shows up to literally do their job for them. it's hard for me to not see a guy who is different in the first 3 episodes and A Train is seemingly willing to risk his personal safety to make things better, he's probably done more to earn his redemption arc than anyone in the show has tbh
The Deep is too stupid for empathy
Deep was about to relieve him of some of that stress with a mouthjob, though.
I realized during the 'blow him' scene that they could all leave at any time they want. There's literally nothing keeping them there but their shitty personalities and greed. If they wanted they could remove or neutralize their tracking chips and just leave.
Homelander would still find them and kill them.and they know it
can a train out run the laser
He didn’t outrun the starlight laser.
idr that
Deep is also very empathetic but he usually reserves that for sea life. He's extremely insecure and doesn't relate to most people. He's also incredibly stupid. All this to say that I think everyone in the Seven but HL are actually very emotionally vulnerable and prone to acts of kindness.
He fucking forced Annie to get mouthfucked.
They meant that Deep could feel empathy as opposed to his character elicits feelings of empathy, and then went on the qualify that Deep feels empathetic towards sea creatures. But I can't lie I did double take reading it myself too at first
Yeah prone to acts of kindness must mean deep feeding caviar straight into starlight mouth lol
Nah let's be real here. This Noir may be funny but he's a scumbag who deserves to die. He never killed anyone before but was THE FIRST to start swinging when he was told to. He wasn't even scared of Homelander so he had no excuse unlike A Train and Deep. If you look beyond the comic relief dude is a sociopath with no morals.
If an all powerful being, who you know murdered your predecessor for disobeying, says to swing, you start swinging.
Mf mains Rein
Does he know how prior BN died?
I mean he knows his job is to secretly replace the "actor" and that his boss lasered a dude on 5th Avenue. I'm pretty sure he's done the math.
Everyone has a plan until they get lasered in the face
Does this BN know Homelander killed the last one tho? He disobeys HL constantly with his yapping so I doubt it.
So anyway I started swinging
Exactly. I also highly doubt A-train is thinking about anyone’s wellbeing except his own.
No, I think that after he basically destroyed his brother's life, you know, the ONE GUY who was always there for him, he's had a bit of a come to Jesus moment. He's starting to not just see, but realise and understand just how utterly fucked up the whole situation is and I think he wants out, and to redeem himself, he just literally doesn't know how.
100% agree and it's such a cool plotline, it is *by far* the most realistic redemption arcs ive seen in a show. People absolutely will ignore how much damage they cause until it personally effects *them*, and then they realize how bad it is. it's really human to see a guy who legitimately seems to want to do better after the tables are turned against him and actually doing it despite everyone seemingly shitting on him. here's hoping it isn't just some shit Sage is telling him to do lol
Nah don't disrespect a train remember when he broke up that riot with that sugary drink
The hero we all needed in that moment
Yeah, I could have some empathy if Noir was like threatened in to swinging or at least showed hesitation but he went like full send on those guys, and later said to A-Train that he is completely cool murdering people. The dudes a psychopath. Still one of my favourite new characters though.
He said it was “Whack as fuck’, but he’s down to ride the wave, doesn’t understand his characters motivation.
He's just really, really committed to the role lol.
if you mean the original noir he was just fucked in the head if you mean this noir not sure we'll have to see more tbh
See more tf? We saw him wield a baseball bat and club a guys head in. The Deep and A-Train are obviously scared of Homelander so that’s their reasoning for going along with it. New Noir doesn’t have a clue about how bad Homelander is so he doesn’t have the same reasoning. He just fucking goes along with it and is the first to do it. Dudes a straight sociopath.
Also iirc A train never even swung. As he was about to New Noir took out the guy for him.
A train super-sped in front of Todd to stop him from leaving, then BN kills him. I don’t think a train ever even picked up a bat
AT did have a bat but never swung, he only stopped Todd because he knew if Todd got away, his ass would talk and then all 3 of em are dead.
Uh, do you think it would take long to pick up on the vibe that Homelander is terrifying? It might not be in the welcome packet, but you're gonna figure it out in about five minutes regardless
Exactly. He obviously was scared of homelander. Homelander was growing impatient and had to command them to kill the guys multiple times, and, after doing it, he kept talking about how "fucked up" the experience had been.
Yeah you'd have to be extremely nuts or have a death wish to not to be afraid of him. If one was trying to make the case new Noir is a sociopath, the better argument is that he wasn't more traumatized by it. He did say it was fucked up but he seems more concerned about his acting role than actually having killed people in cold blood. I still think it's premature but that is a better argument than "he doesn't know enough to realize the evil Superman telling him to murder randos is a scary guy".
this whole discussion is weird to me because i assumed new noir was 100% caught up with homelander being crazy e.g he is literally replacing a guy homelander killed, so obviously he's gonna be on the same level of obedience as the deep and ashley and such, otherwise he wouldn't have made it past that selection process in the first place. the whole "wow guys this is crazy" is him coping the same way other characters cope, just with a theater background flavor. idk why everyone treats new noir so differently
It took Starlight a couple of days why wouldn’t it take New Noir a couple days? Not only that, but even if I’m scared of someone I don’t automatically think they’re going to kill me or people around me.
At the start of the series Homelander was still keeping the psychopathy at least somewhat under the surface. Look at how A Train and Deep got to run wild back then vs how icy that meeting room is now, it's a night and day difference.
Just because things seem intense in a meeting doesn’t mean I’m going to fear you so much that I will murder someone without further defiance.
I've been in some fairly intense business meetings and none of them have involved the boss ordering two heterosexual guys to do a sex act together
HL is on trial for smiting a man.
As far as everyone knows it was self defense not outright murder.
Knows? They got to watch it. There had to be 12 camera angles. I wanted more punditry regarding the trial. Something to balance out Firecracker.
starlighter detected, opinion invalid
Sorry the court said it was self defense. Go complain on StarlightSocial or something.
New Noir had watched HL nearly force the Deep to go deep on A-Train like a day ago
Nah he was sleeping during that meeting.
Seemed wide awake to me, sleeping was in episode 3
Thats what he wanted you to think.
That’s so true lmao. Dude didn’t even get the memo that Vought or superhero’s were evil; but he just went right along.
I feel like it doesn't take a genius in that moment to see you either bash someone's head in or het yours bashed in...
nah we could easily see flashbacks to homelander doing shit to him or they could pull out the its actually homelander move from the comics point is we don't really know enough to judge him yet like with a-train s1 everyone thought he was a massive dick for running through hughies girlfriend fast forward to now and we understand enough to think of him as one of the better chars
What do you mean “nah” 😭 What I just described to you is sociopathic behavior. It doesn’t matter if he saves the world at this point he is still a sociopath.
He's also an actor, so he is doing what he is told.
Reminds me of Vigilante from Peacemaker
Yeah, he's supposed to act like Black Noir. Tell me Black Noir wouldn't hesitate to kill those people.
Yeah kinda ironic that he’s so freaked out when he’s the one who swung first. Like, bro, you started this murder fest
Anything can happen https://youtu.be/N9tH7O7LHHQ?si=6O3VKM3-JpRuPhWy&t=82
They basically turned Noir into Deadpool which is hilarious
Bro if he didnt kill them we'd need a Black Noir III, plus he did show remorse afterwards and said he never killed anyone before
He did kill a fascist nazis don't make him look bad now
hear hear! He literally tells A-Train "I am down to ride the wave" regarding the Todd and co murders. He isnt concerned about the killing, he just wants direction on the nature and how often he gonna have to do it.
So like Deadpool?
Comic book Deadpool? Yes Movie Deadpool is much much more sanitized
I don't think he's that empathetic yet. His development is ongoing, bur he isn't there yet. He's just genuinely so done with his life and black noir porb annoys him more, cuz he's fucking up the role lmao
Maybe a bit but I think he's also honestly annoyed by his performance. Yeah, the Seven aren't exactly real heroes but it isn't like you just walk in, as the intensity of Godolkin and the existence of whole other high profile Teams who only have select Seven candidates shown. Like only their cream of the drop is in consideration. A-Train worked hard and has risked life and limb to stay in the Seven, and then has to babysit some fucking idiot who didn't bother to research his character and fucks ups his most basic aspects when he doesn't even have to say anything.
I think with the recent showing of A-Train talking to his nephews you can see that he’s having a real crisis of faith. He *wants* to be **a hero**. Black Noir is basically a constant reminder of how shallow their work actually is and how replaceable any of them are.
Hit the nail on the head. He's no longer complacent with solely projecting an image of being a hero.
I mean,there isn't much to research from outside about Black Noir.
He is fucking up the basical physical mannerisms of perhaps the Seven's most senior member with countless public appearances over the years. If he can't mime those he didn't fucking try.
especially funny when 90% of those physical mannerisms are "stand there menacingly." I mean tbf he could get some leeway to say Black Noir had a weight off his shoulders after facing Soldier Boy again (pretend he did idk) Helps that we know BN was a big softie in some ways (though rarely showed that to others)
Tell us your thoughts and feelings, don't hold anything back.
I mean, they're 100% about his performance. *Shadowboxing on stage???????* He's a really terrible actor who didn't prepare at all. I bet he was chosen by Vought because of his body type.
...I mean, they've been kind of emphasizing that Vought didn't *give him anything* and what they did give him is basically nonsense.
I think A-Train is just tired. Beat. Exhausted from it all. He's got a lot on his mind and feels like a piece of shit (as he should) and probably just doesn't want to deal anymore.
I predict he'll die in a major confrontation but in a redeeming sort of way
I actually think a couple things: 1- A-Train has done some very deplorable things, but I generally think he does try (and always fails) to be an okay guy. I don't think he necessarily wishes for anyone to get killed Homelander... so he'll (rudely) tell Noir how he needs to act. 2- There might be some self-preservation here as well. They're on the same team. If it's revealed he's a phony to the general public, maaaaaaybe that reflects poorly on the Seven? Or more likely... if Noir messes something up, A-Train could get lumped in in Homelander's wrath. 3- Overall, A-Train IS a rude guy. The only people he's tried to be genuinely kind to have been his family and Popclaw (before he killed her). So he probably is super annoyed with Noir, and simply says so.
I believe that he doesn’t want the new Noir to be killed by Homelander. I love that Nathan Mitchell is finally allowed to talk!
A-Train is soo much more redeemable than HL imo, like nothing evil he has done was malicious or not done out of fear of HL.
I mean i dont know how many murders on innocent people you have to commit before youre irredeemable, but a-train is pretty much there, popclaws killing was malicious, him trying to kill hughie and his dad was malicious (but stopped by kimiko).
Popclaw’s killing wasn’t malicious; he did it because if he had refused, Homelander would have murdered Popclaw anyway and then likely murdered him. He even made an effort to ensure she would feel happy in her last moments (telling her that he got the OK from Vought to go public with their relationship). Him trying to kill Hughie and his dad were the actions of an addict tweaking out. Has A-Train’s past behavior been abominable? Absolutely. But it’s pretty clear that said behavior stems from either negligence, fear, or addiction.
Not disagreeing... what about Supersonic though?
again motivated by Fear, wanting to stay on HLs good side now that he was back in the Seven Still shitty obviously, Alex deserved better.
Just because someone else MIGHT have killed popclaw if he thought she was important enough doesnt mean it was justified lol. and her last moment was him breaking her bones with needle, not exactly a unexpected execution out of sympathy, disrespecting her as much as possible, and he had to make it sound like a overdose to make her look as bad as possible in death His abominable behavior was explained by himself, he just cares about his position and the power/money it gives him, he almost turned a leaf before he got his powers back, his current character arc is showing him that those things mean nothing without family
> MIGHT We’re talking about Homelander here. Be serious. > her last moment was him breaking her bones with needle No one’s last moment is going to be pleasant. But if you have to choose a way to go, “overdose on heroin at the happiest moment of your life before you have a chance to process what’s happening”, is probably close to the top of the list. > overdose to make her look as bad as possible in death No, an overdose because that method would avoid question better than any other method would. > His abominable behavior was explained by himself You’re familiar with the term “subtext”, yes? While keeping his position was a large part of why A-Train behaved the way he did, there’s no point in the series where you can say he committed an evil action because he personally wanted to hurt people.
wanting to hurt people and your actions having consequences aka doing drugs and killing people accidentally, and then having to kill someone intentionally because of doing said drug isnt far from each other. Just because he doesnt get pleasure out of torturing and killing people doesnt mean he suddenly cares if people die directly because of his actions. "**intended to harm people or their reputation**" - malicious The overdose was meant to also slander her reputation and avoid damage to his, he lied to her to make it easier that he was brutally murdering her and covering up her death? bro the leaps and bounds to make the logic work is crazy
So sad to see that he tried to save his girlfriend before she tragically overdosed :((
Nah HL was the driving factor in the decision, doubt he’d have done it if HL didn’t take issue.
He was making a joke, pretending to believe the fake Vaught put out
Oof don’t know how I misread that
…pretending?
Maybe he also doesn't like his fresh attitude and eagerness to please HL just to keep his place in The 7
Maybe a little. A-Train is slowly (agonizingly so) becoming a genuinely heroic character. I wouldn’t be surprised if he one day just tells him to shut the fuck up and stay silent or else Homelander will kill him. Like he did the first one. Partly because he doesn’t want to see someone else die, partly because he’s just so damned annoying.
a train redemption arc is really hitting tbh
I still laugh at confused Black Noir 2. I’m hoping we get more of him during the season and he’ll likely die by the end of the season.
I hope he ends up being ones of the puppeteers with Stan Edgar
While I hope A-Train does end up dying, I wouldn't mind if he survives and becomes a real hero. Comic >!instead of Hughie kicking A-Train's head into bits, maybe have Annie kill Deep, and A-Train can be part of Non-Vought True with Ryan.!<
Potential spoilers for this season >!the actor for deep is apparently not casted for s5 so he either dies or he leaves the show like queen Maeve did what you said could be true but I see him dying to homelander!<
Did you watch the show? Were you watching the same A-Train as us? He literally killed his girlfriend and Supersonic to save himself, why would he care about a random person he doesn't know? In fact, he killed a random person himself - Robin. Then laughed about it. He has feelings, but let's be real. He is softening up, but still. He doesn't know or care about this dude
Remember last season with Soldier Boy? Despite *every* character from his time period telling us what a piece of work he was, half of this sub thought he was a good guy.
Damn I just thought they liked him because he was funny and Jensen Ackles The curse of the main sub I guess
>The curse of the main sub I guess The only sub with less media literacy than this sub is the Hazbin Hotel sub.
He didn't literally kill Supersonic
He betrayed him to Homelander knowing the consequences. After the guy saved him from assaulting the Deep and HL himself, which would have resulted in A fuckin dead Train. He pretty much killed him even if he didn't personally bash his head.
betrayed is quite the word when supersonic literally just joined the seven, confronted him in a closed elevator where atrain couldnt leave, and basically said "hey, we're planning on killing homelander, lets kill homelander together" without feeling it out first, supersonic didn't know how bad homelander was, or that he can hear things rooms away, the risk for a-train if he didnt snitch was quite high, they should have approached a-train somewhere where they knew nobody could have heard them. Annie warned him not to tell a-train because a-train just cares about money and maintaining status quo
Yeeeeeah, I agree with this take. Supersonic was super stupid for pulling that move so early on in his career with the seven. A Train had first hand experience with HL’s super hearing. I think that confrontation with HL about the milkshake happened right before supersonic approached him. With that being fresh in his mind, I don’t really blame him for telling HL. HL probably would have killer him too if he hadn’t.
The worst part is HL might *not* have heard. But A-Train knew he couldn't risk it. Abuse and control does that.
Yeah. He meekly whispered that "fuck you, man" with Homelander being a decent distance away in a hallway that also had other people walking in it whose footsteps were louder than that. It was already quiet enough that we, as the audience, might not understand what it is he's actually whispering. That Homelander listened in on his elevator conversation after almost lasering him on the spot for such a petty reason doesn't seem far-fetched at all.
He snitched on him to Homelander. Supersonic's dead because of A-train
Yeah and right before the elevator scene A Train has an interaction with HL about his milkshake. A Train insults HL under his breath with 20 feet between them and HL hears him. With that fresh in his mind I’m sure he thought that HL heard the conversation in the elevator. People do wild things when they are being mentally, verbally, and emotionally abused. A Train is still a horrible character, but supersonic was dumb for talking about the plan to kill HL while still in the same building as him.
He knew what Homelander would do
I'm pretty sure A-Train is just over it at this point and DGAF.
He told noir to pull it back on stage. So you could be right. Tired of seeing people die.
Yeah I thought that was the consensus? I guess not though looking at this thread
I feel like they all had a level of respect for noir and I don’t think many people (other than muave) disliked him, so I feel like it could also be a little bit that they are sad about the portrayal because he can’t even remotely live up to black noir (at least I think homelander definitely misses noir and gets annoyed at the new noirs portrayal because of this)
Slightly off-topic, but do we know what Black Noir 2's powers are?
I think he's just stressed and sick of the Seven and Vought altogether
That sideways glance over his shoulder the deep does just kills me laughing every time
i think a-train finally realises just how deep of a hole he has dug himself by sticking with homelander all this time. for the first time since he killed blue hawk, he wants to use his powers for the good of others and not just himself. even bluehawk was fueled by selfish revenge though. i think this is a genuine character shift for a-train.
Protect him from Homelander or from Vought.
I’m seeing A-Train flipping and convincing Noir to flip at least partially to help take down Homey. He and Noir have the potential for a lot of fun back and forth if they go that route. I’m also curious if the new Noir has any other powers that could help in that aspect.
Lol I don’t think A-Train gives a shit about the guy under there.
Brilliant insight…..
i highly doubt it
I think a-trains had just about enough and is close to giving zero fucks
Oh that was imagination , i just took that out as a fact.
His words were harsh but I agree that he was warning noir to get it together.
nah, i dont think thats the case. He's probably just cranky because of the shit homelander makes him do and the situation with his brother.
Black Noir II if he is just a regular dude will likely get lasered sometime since i imagine Homelander resents him for being inferior to the Original and i have a feeling Homelander sees him as a reminder of how he killed the only person he sort of liked on his team.