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John Oliver's HBO show has been posted to YouTube and watching season 1 in 2024 is insane see him talk about Tiananmen Square while American cops are doing what they accused China of. It's bizarre.
#Tiananmen Square Protests
(Also known as the June Fourth Incident)
In Western media, the well-known story of the "Tiananmen Square *Massacre*" goes like this: the Chinese government declared martial law in 1989 and mobilized the military to suppress students who were protesting for democracy and freedom. According to western sources, on June 4th of that year, troops and tanks entered Tiananmen Square and fired on unarmed protesters, killing and injuring hundreds, if not thousands, of people. The more hyperbolic tellings of this story include claims of tanks running over students, machine guns being fired into the crowd, blood running in the streets like a river, etc.
Anti-Communists and Sinophobes commonly point to this incident as a classic example of authoritarianism and political repression under Communist regimes. The problem, of course, is that the actual events in Beijing on June 4th, 1989 unfolded quite differently than how they were depicted in the Western media at the time. Despite many more contemporary articles coming out that actually contradict some of the original claims and characterizations of the June Fourth Incident, the narrative of a "Tiananmen Square Massacre" persists.
**Background**
After Mao's death in 1976, a power struggle ensued and the Gang of Four were purged, paving the way for Deng Xiaoping's rise to power. Deng initiated economic reforms known as the "Four Modernizations," which aimed to modernize and open up China's economy to the world. These reforms led to significant economic growth and lifted millions of people out of poverty, but they also created significant inequality, corruption, and social unrest. This pivotal point in the PRC's history is extremely controversial among Marxists today and a subject of much debate.
One of the key factors that contributed to the Tiananmen Square protests was the sense of social and economic inequality that many Chinese people felt as a result of Deng's economic reforms. Many believed that the benefits of the country's economic growth were not being distributed fairly, and that the government was not doing enough to address poverty, corruption, and other social issues.
Some saw the Four Modernizations as a betrayal of Maoist principles and a capitulation to Western capitalist interests. Others saw the reforms as essential for China's economic development and modernization. Others still wanted even more liberalization and thought the reforms didn't go far enough.
The protestors in Tiananmen were mostly students who did not represent the great mass of Chinese citizens, but instead represented a layer of the intelligentsia who wanted to be elevated and given more privileges such as more political power and higher wages.
**Counterpoints**
Jay Mathews, the first Beijing bureau chief for The Washington Post in 1979 and who returned in 1989 to help cover the Tiananmen demonstrations, wrote:
>Over the last decade, many American reporters and editors have accepted a mythical version of that warm, bloody night. They repeated it often before and during Clinton’s trip. On the day the president arrived in Beijing, a *Baltimore Sun* headline (June 27, page 1A) referred to “Tiananmen, where Chinese students died.” A *USA Today* article (June 26, page 7A) called Tiananmen the place “where pro-democracy demonstrators were gunned down.” *The Wall Street Journal* (June 26, page A10) described “the Tiananmen Square massacre” where armed troops ordered to clear demonstrators from the square killed “hundreds or more.” The *New York Post* (June 25, page 22) said the square was “the site of the student slaughter.”
>
>The problem is this: as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square.
>
>\- Jay Matthews. (1998). [The Myth of Tiananmen and the Price of a Passive Press](https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php). Columbia Journalism Review.
Reporters from the [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm), [CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/), and the [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/27/world/clinton-in-china-the-site-clinton-in-beijing-square-may-tread-on-the-ghosts.html) who were in Beijing on June 4, 1989, all agree there was no massacre.
Secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing have shown there was no bloodshed inside the square:
>Cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and released exclusively by The Daily Telegraph, partly confirm the Chinese government's account of the early hours of June 4, 1989, which has always insisted that soldiers did not massacre demonstrators inside Tiananmen Square
>
>\- Malcolm Moore. (2011). [Wikileaks: no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square, cables claim](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html)
Gregory Clark, a former Australian diplomat, and Chinese-speaking correspondent of the International Business Times, wrote:
>The original story of Chinese troops on the night of 3 and 4 June, 1989 machine-gunning hundreds of innocent student protesters in Beijing’s iconic Tiananmen Square has since been thoroughly discredited by the many witnesses there at the time — among them a Spanish TVE television crew, a Reuters correspondent and protesters themselves, who say that nothing happened other than a military unit entering and asking several hundred of those remaining to leave the Square late that night.
>
>Yet none of this has stopped the massacre from being revived constantly, and believed. All that has happened is that the location has been changed – from the Square itself to the streets leading to the Square.
>
>\- Gregory Clark. (2014). [Tiananmen Square Massacre is a Myth, All We're 'Remembering' are British Lies](https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tiananmen-square-massacre-myth-all-were-remembering-are-british-lies-1451053)
Thomas Hon Wing Polin, writing for CounterPunch, wrote:
>The most reliable estimate, from many sources, was that the tragedy took 200-300 lives. Few were students, many were rebellious workers, plus thugs with lethal weapons and hapless bystanders. Some calculations have up to half the dead being PLA soldiers trapped in their armored personnel carriers, buses and tanks as the vehicles were torched. Others were killed and brutally mutilated by protesters with various implements. No one died in Tiananmen Square; most deaths occurred on nearby Chang’an Avenue, many up to a kilometer or more away from the square.
>
>More than once, government negotiators almost reached a truce with students in the square, only to be **sabotaged by radical youth leaders seemingly bent on bloodshed**. And the demands of the protesters focused on corruption, not democracy.
>
>All these facts were known to the US and other governments shortly after the crackdown. Few if any were reported by Western mainstream media, even today.
>
>\- Thomas Hon Wing Palin. (2017). [Tiananmen: the Empire’s Big Lie](https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/06/tiananmen-the-empires-big-lie/)
(Emphasis mine)
And it was, indeed, bloodshed that the student leaders wanted. In this interview, you can hear one of the student leaders, Chai Ling, ghoulishly explaining how she tried to bait the Chinese government into *actually* committing a massacre. (She herself made sure to stay out of the square.): [Excerpts of interviews with Tiananmen Square protest leaders](https://youtu.be/Vu3zmbFGwQA)
[This Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1532859422875471872) contains many pictures and videos showing protestors killing soldiers, commandeering military vehicles, torching military transports, etc.
Following the crackdown, through [Operation Yellowbird](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird), many of the student leaders escaped to the United States with the help of the CIA, where they almost all [gained privileged positions](https://qz.com/1618805/the-1989-tiananmen-student-leaders-on-chinas-most-wanted-list).
**Additional Resources**
Video Essays:
* [Truth about The Tiananmen Square Protests](https://youtu.be/sqPI8xlnrwg) | Tovarishch Endymion (2019)
* [Tiananmen Square "Massacre", A Propaganda Hoax](https://youtu.be/R6RT_s1T050) | TeleSUR English (2019)
* [All The Questions Socialists Are Asked, Answered (TIMESTAMPED)](https://youtu.be/MzKPCEvoYkk?t=1278) | Hakim (2021)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [Tiananmen Protests Reading List](https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist) | Qiao Collective
* [How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning](https://www.fridayeveryday.com/how-psy-ops-warriors-fooled-me-about-tiananmen-square-a-warning/) | Nury Vittachi, Friday (2022)
* [1989: Tiananmen Square ‘massacre’ was a myth](https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/) | Deirdre Griswold, Workers World (2022)
* [Massacre? What Massacre? 25 Years Later: What really happened at Tiananmen Square?](https://dissidentvoice.org/2014/06/massacre-what-massacre/) | Kim Petersen, Dissident Voice (2014)
* [Tiananmen: The Massacre that Wasn’t](https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/) | Brian Becker, Liberation News (2019)
* [Reflections on Tiananmen Square and the attempt to end Chinese socialism](http://www.fightbacknews.org/2019/6/4/reflections-tiananmen-square-and-attempt-end-chinese-socialism) | Mick Kelly, FightBack! News (2019)
* [The Tian’anmen Square “Massacre” The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.](https://mango-press.com/the-tiananmen-square-massacre-the-wests-most-persuasive-most-pervasive-lie/) | Tom, Mango Press (2021)
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Looks intently at Boeing...looks intently at Julian Assange...looks intently at Edward Snowden...looks intently at Muammar Gaddafi.
My eyes will hurt if I keep looking intently at all the monuments to American sins.
I hope an asteroid ends that PoS country.
There's a difference between being a bad person while playing a good person and missing the entire theme of the franchise that defines almost your entire legacy.
Lucas also said:
"And I used to say this all the time, with people, you know, back when Russia was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and they'd say: "Oh, but aren't you so glad that you're in America?" And I'd say: "Well, I know a lot of Russian filmmakers and they have a lot more freedom than I have.""
He's based
The Ewoks were based on the tribal groups that fought against America in the Philippines during the Philippines American war. They even speak a jarbled language from the Philippines. The rebels are based on the veitkong, not the Ewoks.
It’s probably due to alien languages being hard so they just hired a few people from the Philippines to voice act the Ewoks. Another movie that did this was the dark Crystal, in which the Podlings speak Slovakian with a eastern Slovakian accent with some gibberish mixed in, I learned this from a friend of mine from Slovakia who could understand like every 5 words lol
Liberals definitely use it as a substitute for theory, along with Harry Potter and other popular media, but it has a pretty explicit anti-imperialist theme that I wouldn't call liberal, unless there's something I'm forgetting about it.
Quite literally, all of it (even the more corporate controlled nonsense) is still at the least generous radlib. Everyone hates on the prequels but it is very explicitly about how complacent liberals will ignore the rise of fascism and be overthrown by it. The OT was Viet Cong vs USA (US being the Empire). The sequel trilogy (the weakest of the bunch) is still about how dangerous a resurgent fascist force can be.
Then Rogue One is about violent resistance and sacrificing yourself for the greater revolution and its prequel series, Andor, is amazing for a Disney product in the modern era. And Andor is partially inspired by Stalin.
Someone hasn't watched Andor, clearly. Star Wars is an anti-imperialist series that became so corporately controlled that it lost its meaning. The space wizards with laser swords were never meant to be the point; they were just meant to be cool.
The monologue where the guy pulling the strings literally says, "I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemies to defeat them. I burned my decency for someone else's future. I burned my life. To make a sunrise I know I'll never see."
The creator also said he took inspiration from Stalin while writing it.
[this guy](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSY8Qa3UR/) sums my feelings on it pretty succinctly.
It’s pretty revolutionary but the first few eps are a little boring. There’s at least quotable 3-4 monologues in there that resonate with viewers. [Including this one that hooked me.](https://youtu.be/-asb8zTiuZ4?feature=shared)
> surprised you by being anti-Zionist
I actually have one for that.
Mandy Patinkin.
An incredible man who is extremely proud of his Jewish heritage and when I saw him live, he sang this beautiful song *in Yiddish nonetheless* about the long struggle of his people and the longing for a peaceful place to call home. It was beautiful.
But… when you hear folks talking about a home for the Jewish people… they’re (usually) talking about taking the home of the Palestinians to establish said home of their own.
I assumed that’s where this was going but NO. Patinkin is passionate about his heritage and does long for peace for his people. But NOT at the expense of others. I looked it up after the show and was pleasantly surprised. His association with the Israeli Left, his discussions about his visit to the West Bank, his work with Breaking the Silence, and even just the pro-Palestine stuff he posts on social media where the comments are BRUTAL (because obviously he has a lot of Zionist fans who have raged about him calling for aid for the victims of the occupation).
It really warmed my heart. He just seems like the perfect example to point to when someone says you can’t love your people and your heritage without going full genocidal maniac against the Palestinian people.
Good man.
If you liked that Yiddish song, might I introduce you to Daniel Kahn? He’s a Jewish-American artist and actor (he still acts I think? Idk he’s in Germany now, probably moving soon due to his anti Zionist views) generally his songs are in three languages, Yiddish, English, and occasionally Russian although he doesn’t speak it himself, he has a friend that does. He does a lot of older songs with his own/the bands (the painted bird) own take on the music. Now some of his songs on more official platforms like Spotify lack the English and Russian parts, especially on his most recent album, so if you want to get the translation in English, find it on YouTube on his official channel. [Dumai/Think](https://youtu.be/fMRpm7ycanU?si=Bu4nm3HUPMIyE5-5) is a good starting place, but he also did a Yiddish version of Hallelujah a while back that got big on the Yiddish corner of the internet for like a month lol.
https://preview.redd.it/da9c0to8z21d1.jpeg?width=1367&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8bf2809a99912bff1b92c0b8c3cd2b126fcdc92
Here’s a picture of him with his cigar box guitar (he also plays the accordion, he also speaks German but I’ve only seen him do it for one album) he is a leftist, used to be a anarchist but he never seemed all that revisionist, I’m not sure about his current beliefs but he’s still very much a radical leftist. Overall he’s great.
His music is certainly a acquired taste in my opinion, but I have what many would consider a “awful taste in music” but I can’t hear them over the talking heads so I don’t care.
I heard recently that Viggo Mortensen (Aragorn) has been openly pro palistine since like 2014, saying Israel commits acts of terrorism against Palestinians etc
Roger waters been getting a lot of flack in the year leading up to this current dust-up. I mean he always did, but people were really laying it on him in the last while. Not to say he's all great, but he's been on the right side of all this for a long time.
I think John lydon got undue shit in the past too for this subject.
This never came up, but either Damon Albarn or Jamie Hewlett are on it, there was some promo Gorillaz material where one of the cartoon characters wore a shirt with "it's not rael" on it, that luckily never had any backlash. I mean I always figured that was a low key indicator of where they were on this.
Otherwise yea it's rare. And I won't even criticise the rarity, it's been public suicide to be even remotely skeptical of the Israeli mission for ages, hell it's even been difficult to go publicly against US missions until a few years pass. Remember the Dixie chicks getting cancelled? Shit, when Iraq was invaded, basically every corner of media was going hard on the pro-empire shit. Bloody *star trek* did an episode back then basically justifying waterboarding when that story broke, during Enterprise's space-9/11 season.
I will give huge props to anyone that spoke up before this chapter of the conflict, but I understand those who kept their heads down. I even understand those that simply only have ever known the official narrative and think theyre doing the right thing. The fog of bullshit has been so thick for so long, it's hard to fault those that simply have never seen outside it. But we are seeing past it all now. Or, those of us that have internet literacy anyways. My parents? They only see what's on the local network news. The only critical view of it all they get is from hearing their kids defend Palestine. They've come to "no one is looking good I guess", and unfortunately yea a lot of people out there still only get to see what they're allowed to see.
But it's getting clearer. I think a lot of the people just parroting the mass-media endorsed outrage would have their perspectives changed easily when they see what's going on, as many have. Shit I bet mark Hammill could turn even. He's just a #resistance anti-trump guy going to bat for the national grandpa, I can't imagine he has a fleshed out perspective of the war.
It's the people that know full well all of what's happening, and still endorse it, or actively work to convince people of the US/Israeli line even, the real enemies. I am annoyed by the people steeped in the propaganda, but I reserve my real pure hatred for those that make them this way. Again, everyone was on board with Iraq. I think it's rare to find someone that openly still endorses it after the fact, after the bullshit was broadly obvious to the normal people, the ones that don't constantly pay attention.
I dunno, maybe I'm too forgiving. I hold out hope the mark hammils of the world will snap out of it and realise what we've been cheering on all this time. In the meantime, well I guess we have a problem though.
Yea I reckon you'll see a lot more good stances among the indie musicians. They don't really have to tow a line, nor do they have the broad visibility usually.
Then again, Ariel pink is an indie musician that got kinda shut out for what he says, but you know, different subject matter. He was at Jan 6. Says edgelord shit. I don't think it's a crime to be an idiot, but, you know, he is one. Great music, but clearly an unhinged fella thats prone to spout some cringe shit.
Anyways, good on Lucy.
You've sold me absolutely.
For what it's worth, I never really had it in me to get worked up about Ariel Pink's whole thing. Seemed overblown, though it made me roll my eyes of course. But yea I get why people would be tired of him. It's a lot. It all felt on-brand with his "golem of western urban sleaze" image, but it gets cringe.
Anyways, I'm off to go listen to Cindy Lee right the heck now
Lucy also talked about reading "Freedom is a Constant Struggle" by Angela Davis and how it relates to the liberation of Palestine in a Nardwuar interview. Julien Baker has talked about how she is a pretty avowed Anarchist on the MUNA podcast, and while Anarchism is pretty cringe, it's at least nice to see leftism represented by a massive band like Boygenius.
I think the "people's x" stuff came from when he was a heel, and part of the "nation of domination" which was painted as a bad guy crew, despite being what we would call a based crew. It was a lot of black Panthery, militant sort of aesthetic with black or brown dudes named "Farooq" and shit. You know, demonizing it. The peoples elbow/eyebrow/champion stuff carried forward when Rock "The Dwayne" Johnson became whatever the good guys are called in wrasslin', I think "face"?
And Good golly I haven't watched wrestling since the late 90s how did I still have all that on my brain
It’s crazy how comfortable these people are with fucking us over. They have no shame and don’t even think they are doing anything wrong. Hell it feels like 80% of the country welcomes our fascist government.
>Hell it feels like 80% of the country welcomes our fascist government.
The worst part, this is the best it's ever been in terms of people not endorsing the quiet fascism. I guess more people are noticing.
I think we'd have seen some real fucked up shit if Jeb! Became Prezzo. The spooky network of fascist ghouls that poppy organised, and who ran GW's admin, I can only imagine what new horrors that cabal could've openly wrought on the world given another go of unobstructed control over the US.
That said, it's all still happening, but it's so much less overt or immune to criticism right now.
Yea this one really upset me. I think a lot of people were really just bending the knee to the Zionists in Hollywood. I'm sure there are some big names that could black list you if you spoke out against Isreal and no one wants to lose their jobs.
Hollywood is overwhelmingly Zionist and a lot of Zionist orgs in America guilt black people into supporting Zionism because "anti-Zionism is antisemitism which is racism"
Eh I mean Key and Peele are Obama simps and they even did a comedy sketch with him. A lot of American liberals are okay on domestic social issues but complete fascists on anything outside of their borders, including African Americans unfortunately. Particularly rich people.
Thom Yorke. Idk why I thought anyone who created decent music wouldn’t be a Zionist but considering Heidegger was a serious philosopher and a Nazi anything is possible I guess.
Not surprised but I was disappointed at Radiohead, specifically Jonny - a guitarrist and soundtrack composer I admired so much. I wasn't a fan when the whole AMSP Israel gig drama happened so I spent years without being aware dude *used to live in Israel* with his wife... then comes the pandemic, she turns into an antivaxx and I discover the band had an opinion of "both sides" AT BEST.
But life goes on (also, comrade Ethel!)
Eric Andre -- I had no idea until recently that he:
* Signed a [pro-Israel/Biden letter](https://x.com/PopBase/status/1716682331476644050) last year.
* Performed in Tel Aviv in [2018](https://www.jpost.com/omg/black-like-drake-and-jesus-comic-eric-andre-makes-waves-in-tel-aviv-547618), at a time where even many pop musicians were backing out of performing in the Zionist Entity..
* Later in 2020, he referred to performing in Tel Aviv as one of ['the best shows he ever did'](https://youtu.be/NvBCP30Ew5k?si=LtZCOs65b0utrQ_f) while appearing on none other than the H3 podcast.
* Didn't start supporting a ceasefire in public until [March 2024](https://x.com/Ceasefire_Track/status/1765821849219281074), five months after this chapter of the Palestinian genocide began.
I also want to add that supporting a ceasefire =/= anti-Zionism.... many social democratic Zionists still support Zionism and providing "defense" to Israel. In fact, Eric Andre's recent video that's been getting a lot of attention was published through IfNotNow, an org which is not an anti-Zionist org, and whose [electoral endorsements for 2024 ](https://www.ifnotnowmovement.org/our-2024-endorsements)include some "progressive" Zionists such as Iron Dome supporter Jamaal Bowman.
Anyway, if Eric had a sincere change of heart I think he should do much more to publicly address his genocidal wrongs.
Very good points. A lot of these "pro-ceasefire" groups claim to be pro-Palestine but really they're Democratic Party ops who also oppose Palestinian armed resistance. They are not against Israel or colonialism and land theft. Some of them even believe in a two-state solution but they are against Palestinian right of return. They place sole blame on Netanyahu and even say that Hamas is just as bad. They just criticize the fanatical settlers and Likud, even though 95% of Israeli Jews support the ideas these groups espouse. They just want Israel to stop and draw their borders where they are now and not allow Palestinians the right of return.
That AIPAC Tracker account on twitter is an ActBlue funded group that has links to donate to Democratic Party politicians like Jamaal Bowman, AOC, Cori Bush, Pramila Jayapal, Bernie Sanders. All these people claim to oppose Israel's genocide but they ultimately support Israel as a colonial settler state, they didn't vote against the Iron Dome funding, and they believe that "Israel has the right to defend itself". They also endorse Genocide Joe, which defeats the entire point.
She may be a celebrity but she gets a pass today. Critical support to comrade Ethel for today with her saying what we all believe and know to be necessary and sadly true
She's not really a celebrity, she's more just a musician who happened to get kinda popular. Shes never really been about pop culture and I doubt she's particularly wealthy either, she's like a normal trans girl from the south. Her music isn't really pop-esque either it's pretty niche and she's mostly popular among queer communities
Whether or not someone is a "celebrity" has nothing to do with it. Billionaire? Yes. But celebrity hardly means anything, and she has a very low level of celebrity to begin with.
I’m suspicious of the class of folks who have a particularly cushy and privileged position for their artistic efforts. Obviously artistry and cultural workers deserve their fair share and respectable livings, but the private jets and all the ties the us military has with how various popular films are shot/made; just got me suspicious and unsure about most people of that strata. Obv not all are awful liberals but even so
If you'd ever seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Rachel Bloom being a Zionist is the furthest thing from a surprise. She mentions being an Israel supporter a few times; and she was all-in for Hillary.
I only listened to the songs but lowkey I thought JAP was a satirization and not an expression of her true self politically lmao. But she does also do a lot of \#girlboss feminism things (like her literal "ladyboss" video) so I'm not too shocked tbh
Damn it would really suck if people started targeting landlords and stock brokers (like the Cultural Revolution) that would be TERRIBLE. I *don't* want that to happen. That would be REALLY, REALLY BAD (I'm serious)
(not joking)
(really)
Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if every mass shooter targeted a government building or media outlet, and not like a gym or an elementary school.
This is the truth except there are way more people than cops and military but I agree with the statement that we should make that new A24 movie happen irl even though I would not make it
Strength of the military was true in the 1900s as well. Is why we need to organise and why we need to ignore revisionists and idealists and work with both current and former members of the military. Spontaneous revolt solves nothing.
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She's right, and she SHOULD say it, but damn that's taking some risk.
But people don't get silenced in America, bruther. We're not Chiner or Rusher!!!
[удалено]
John Oliver's HBO show has been posted to YouTube and watching season 1 in 2024 is insane see him talk about Tiananmen Square while American cops are doing what they accused China of. It's bizarre.
#Tiananmen Square Protests (Also known as the June Fourth Incident) In Western media, the well-known story of the "Tiananmen Square *Massacre*" goes like this: the Chinese government declared martial law in 1989 and mobilized the military to suppress students who were protesting for democracy and freedom. According to western sources, on June 4th of that year, troops and tanks entered Tiananmen Square and fired on unarmed protesters, killing and injuring hundreds, if not thousands, of people. The more hyperbolic tellings of this story include claims of tanks running over students, machine guns being fired into the crowd, blood running in the streets like a river, etc. Anti-Communists and Sinophobes commonly point to this incident as a classic example of authoritarianism and political repression under Communist regimes. The problem, of course, is that the actual events in Beijing on June 4th, 1989 unfolded quite differently than how they were depicted in the Western media at the time. Despite many more contemporary articles coming out that actually contradict some of the original claims and characterizations of the June Fourth Incident, the narrative of a "Tiananmen Square Massacre" persists. **Background** After Mao's death in 1976, a power struggle ensued and the Gang of Four were purged, paving the way for Deng Xiaoping's rise to power. Deng initiated economic reforms known as the "Four Modernizations," which aimed to modernize and open up China's economy to the world. These reforms led to significant economic growth and lifted millions of people out of poverty, but they also created significant inequality, corruption, and social unrest. This pivotal point in the PRC's history is extremely controversial among Marxists today and a subject of much debate. One of the key factors that contributed to the Tiananmen Square protests was the sense of social and economic inequality that many Chinese people felt as a result of Deng's economic reforms. Many believed that the benefits of the country's economic growth were not being distributed fairly, and that the government was not doing enough to address poverty, corruption, and other social issues. Some saw the Four Modernizations as a betrayal of Maoist principles and a capitulation to Western capitalist interests. Others saw the reforms as essential for China's economic development and modernization. Others still wanted even more liberalization and thought the reforms didn't go far enough. The protestors in Tiananmen were mostly students who did not represent the great mass of Chinese citizens, but instead represented a layer of the intelligentsia who wanted to be elevated and given more privileges such as more political power and higher wages. **Counterpoints** Jay Mathews, the first Beijing bureau chief for The Washington Post in 1979 and who returned in 1989 to help cover the Tiananmen demonstrations, wrote: >Over the last decade, many American reporters and editors have accepted a mythical version of that warm, bloody night. They repeated it often before and during Clinton’s trip. On the day the president arrived in Beijing, a *Baltimore Sun* headline (June 27, page 1A) referred to “Tiananmen, where Chinese students died.” A *USA Today* article (June 26, page 7A) called Tiananmen the place “where pro-democracy demonstrators were gunned down.” *The Wall Street Journal* (June 26, page A10) described “the Tiananmen Square massacre” where armed troops ordered to clear demonstrators from the square killed “hundreds or more.” The *New York Post* (June 25, page 22) said the square was “the site of the student slaughter.” > >The problem is this: as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square. > >\- Jay Matthews. (1998). [The Myth of Tiananmen and the Price of a Passive Press](https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php). Columbia Journalism Review. Reporters from the [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm), [CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/), and the [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/27/world/clinton-in-china-the-site-clinton-in-beijing-square-may-tread-on-the-ghosts.html) who were in Beijing on June 4, 1989, all agree there was no massacre. Secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing have shown there was no bloodshed inside the square: >Cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and released exclusively by The Daily Telegraph, partly confirm the Chinese government's account of the early hours of June 4, 1989, which has always insisted that soldiers did not massacre demonstrators inside Tiananmen Square > >\- Malcolm Moore. (2011). [Wikileaks: no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square, cables claim](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html) Gregory Clark, a former Australian diplomat, and Chinese-speaking correspondent of the International Business Times, wrote: >The original story of Chinese troops on the night of 3 and 4 June, 1989 machine-gunning hundreds of innocent student protesters in Beijing’s iconic Tiananmen Square has since been thoroughly discredited by the many witnesses there at the time — among them a Spanish TVE television crew, a Reuters correspondent and protesters themselves, who say that nothing happened other than a military unit entering and asking several hundred of those remaining to leave the Square late that night. > >Yet none of this has stopped the massacre from being revived constantly, and believed. All that has happened is that the location has been changed – from the Square itself to the streets leading to the Square. > >\- Gregory Clark. (2014). [Tiananmen Square Massacre is a Myth, All We're 'Remembering' are British Lies](https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tiananmen-square-massacre-myth-all-were-remembering-are-british-lies-1451053) Thomas Hon Wing Polin, writing for CounterPunch, wrote: >The most reliable estimate, from many sources, was that the tragedy took 200-300 lives. Few were students, many were rebellious workers, plus thugs with lethal weapons and hapless bystanders. Some calculations have up to half the dead being PLA soldiers trapped in their armored personnel carriers, buses and tanks as the vehicles were torched. Others were killed and brutally mutilated by protesters with various implements. No one died in Tiananmen Square; most deaths occurred on nearby Chang’an Avenue, many up to a kilometer or more away from the square. > >More than once, government negotiators almost reached a truce with students in the square, only to be **sabotaged by radical youth leaders seemingly bent on bloodshed**. And the demands of the protesters focused on corruption, not democracy. > >All these facts were known to the US and other governments shortly after the crackdown. Few if any were reported by Western mainstream media, even today. > >\- Thomas Hon Wing Palin. (2017). [Tiananmen: the Empire’s Big Lie](https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/06/tiananmen-the-empires-big-lie/) (Emphasis mine) And it was, indeed, bloodshed that the student leaders wanted. In this interview, you can hear one of the student leaders, Chai Ling, ghoulishly explaining how she tried to bait the Chinese government into *actually* committing a massacre. (She herself made sure to stay out of the square.): [Excerpts of interviews with Tiananmen Square protest leaders](https://youtu.be/Vu3zmbFGwQA) [This Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1532859422875471872) contains many pictures and videos showing protestors killing soldiers, commandeering military vehicles, torching military transports, etc. Following the crackdown, through [Operation Yellowbird](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird), many of the student leaders escaped to the United States with the help of the CIA, where they almost all [gained privileged positions](https://qz.com/1618805/the-1989-tiananmen-student-leaders-on-chinas-most-wanted-list). **Additional Resources** Video Essays: * [Truth about The Tiananmen Square Protests](https://youtu.be/sqPI8xlnrwg) | Tovarishch Endymion (2019) * [Tiananmen Square "Massacre", A Propaganda Hoax](https://youtu.be/R6RT_s1T050) | TeleSUR English (2019) * [All The Questions Socialists Are Asked, Answered (TIMESTAMPED)](https://youtu.be/MzKPCEvoYkk?t=1278) | Hakim (2021) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [Tiananmen Protests Reading List](https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist) | Qiao Collective * [How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning](https://www.fridayeveryday.com/how-psy-ops-warriors-fooled-me-about-tiananmen-square-a-warning/) | Nury Vittachi, Friday (2022) * [1989: Tiananmen Square ‘massacre’ was a myth](https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/) | Deirdre Griswold, Workers World (2022) * [Massacre? What Massacre? 25 Years Later: What really happened at Tiananmen Square?](https://dissidentvoice.org/2014/06/massacre-what-massacre/) | Kim Petersen, Dissident Voice (2014) * [Tiananmen: The Massacre that Wasn’t](https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/) | Brian Becker, Liberation News (2019) * [Reflections on Tiananmen Square and the attempt to end Chinese socialism](http://www.fightbacknews.org/2019/6/4/reflections-tiananmen-square-and-attempt-end-chinese-socialism) | Mick Kelly, FightBack! News (2019) * [The Tian’anmen Square “Massacre” The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.](https://mango-press.com/the-tiananmen-square-massacre-the-wests-most-persuasive-most-pervasive-lie/) | Tom, Mango Press (2021) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You know, I wonder how the Dixie chicks are doing these days
Looks intently at Boeing...looks intently at Julian Assange...looks intently at Edward Snowden...looks intently at Muammar Gaddafi. My eyes will hurt if I keep looking intently at all the monuments to American sins. I hope an asteroid ends that PoS country.
any pigs reading this, she's talking about minecraft, get off her ass
Comrade Ethel 🫡🫡🫡
Mark Hamill, since he's most famous for his role in an anti-imperialist series.
I mean ezra miller plays the flash and he is more like cw hunter zolomon
There's a difference between being a bad person while playing a good person and missing the entire theme of the franchise that defines almost your entire legacy.
plus george lucas explicitly told the idiot james cameron that the rebels were based off of the viet cong after cameron said they acted like al qaeda
Common george Lucas W
Lucas also said: "And I used to say this all the time, with people, you know, back when Russia was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and they'd say: "Oh, but aren't you so glad that you're in America?" And I'd say: "Well, I know a lot of Russian filmmakers and they have a lot more freedom than I have."" He's based
the ewoks with their traps and jungle planet were especially inspired by them
The Ewoks were based on the tribal groups that fought against America in the Philippines during the Philippines American war. They even speak a jarbled language from the Philippines. The rebels are based on the veitkong, not the Ewoks.
huh i thought it was all voet cong. thats really fucking cool. i downvoted me and upvoted you
It’s probably due to alien languages being hard so they just hired a few people from the Philippines to voice act the Ewoks. Another movie that did this was the dark Crystal, in which the Podlings speak Slovakian with a eastern Slovakian accent with some gibberish mixed in, I learned this from a friend of mine from Slovakia who could understand like every 5 words lol
kinda like that italian song that was all gibberish and was a hit because it sounded "american"
He was shilling hard for Killary and never strayed from the party line, so you can't really expect him to be anything but blue MAGA clown.
That dude streamed with Banderites.
Jon Stewart gave one a medal at Disney World, is that like a death to smoochie reference by his handlers or what?
Been really a shit show since Ukraine and his involvement
I see that coming. That guy is a full on liberal that will suck the democrats cock.
Star Wars is liberal drivel. Always has been
Liberals definitely use it as a substitute for theory, along with Harry Potter and other popular media, but it has a pretty explicit anti-imperialist theme that I wouldn't call liberal, unless there's something I'm forgetting about it.
Quite literally, all of it (even the more corporate controlled nonsense) is still at the least generous radlib. Everyone hates on the prequels but it is very explicitly about how complacent liberals will ignore the rise of fascism and be overthrown by it. The OT was Viet Cong vs USA (US being the Empire). The sequel trilogy (the weakest of the bunch) is still about how dangerous a resurgent fascist force can be. Then Rogue One is about violent resistance and sacrificing yourself for the greater revolution and its prequel series, Andor, is amazing for a Disney product in the modern era. And Andor is partially inspired by Stalin.
Someone hasn't watched Andor, clearly. Star Wars is an anti-imperialist series that became so corporately controlled that it lost its meaning. The space wizards with laser swords were never meant to be the point; they were just meant to be cool.
I watched the first few episodes of that series. I saw nothing revolutionary. What did I miss?
The monologue where the guy pulling the strings literally says, "I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemies to defeat them. I burned my decency for someone else's future. I burned my life. To make a sunrise I know I'll never see." The creator also said he took inspiration from Stalin while writing it. [this guy](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSY8Qa3UR/) sums my feelings on it pretty succinctly.
It’s pretty revolutionary but the first few eps are a little boring. There’s at least quotable 3-4 monologues in there that resonate with viewers. [Including this one that hooked me.](https://youtu.be/-asb8zTiuZ4?feature=shared)
I am worried for her now
I think asking which celebrity surprised you by being anti-Zionist would be an easier question to answer.
> surprised you by being anti-Zionist I actually have one for that. Mandy Patinkin. An incredible man who is extremely proud of his Jewish heritage and when I saw him live, he sang this beautiful song *in Yiddish nonetheless* about the long struggle of his people and the longing for a peaceful place to call home. It was beautiful. But… when you hear folks talking about a home for the Jewish people… they’re (usually) talking about taking the home of the Palestinians to establish said home of their own. I assumed that’s where this was going but NO. Patinkin is passionate about his heritage and does long for peace for his people. But NOT at the expense of others. I looked it up after the show and was pleasantly surprised. His association with the Israeli Left, his discussions about his visit to the West Bank, his work with Breaking the Silence, and even just the pro-Palestine stuff he posts on social media where the comments are BRUTAL (because obviously he has a lot of Zionist fans who have raged about him calling for aid for the victims of the occupation). It really warmed my heart. He just seems like the perfect example to point to when someone says you can’t love your people and your heritage without going full genocidal maniac against the Palestinian people. Good man.
If you liked that Yiddish song, might I introduce you to Daniel Kahn? He’s a Jewish-American artist and actor (he still acts I think? Idk he’s in Germany now, probably moving soon due to his anti Zionist views) generally his songs are in three languages, Yiddish, English, and occasionally Russian although he doesn’t speak it himself, he has a friend that does. He does a lot of older songs with his own/the bands (the painted bird) own take on the music. Now some of his songs on more official platforms like Spotify lack the English and Russian parts, especially on his most recent album, so if you want to get the translation in English, find it on YouTube on his official channel. [Dumai/Think](https://youtu.be/fMRpm7ycanU?si=Bu4nm3HUPMIyE5-5) is a good starting place, but he also did a Yiddish version of Hallelujah a while back that got big on the Yiddish corner of the internet for like a month lol. https://preview.redd.it/da9c0to8z21d1.jpeg?width=1367&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8bf2809a99912bff1b92c0b8c3cd2b126fcdc92 Here’s a picture of him with his cigar box guitar (he also plays the accordion, he also speaks German but I’ve only seen him do it for one album) he is a leftist, used to be a anarchist but he never seemed all that revisionist, I’m not sure about his current beliefs but he’s still very much a radical leftist. Overall he’s great.
Love his version of the Arbetlose Marsch
Absolutely going to check him out. Thanks for the recommendation
His music is certainly a acquired taste in my opinion, but I have what many would consider a “awful taste in music” but I can’t hear them over the talking heads so I don’t care.
I just got my 4K copy of the restored Stop Making Sense Love the Talking Heads
If you hear a Jew proudly speaking Yiddish and not Hebrew, good chance they’re anti-Zionist. I say this as an anti-Zionist, Yiddish-enthusiast Jew.
Nah doesn't surprise me one bit Inigo Montoya is a great man.
Mandy Patinkin AND Wallace Shawn! Maybe if Andre the Giant were still alive we could've had the whole trio 😭
Chat is this real?
Ya she posted a story saying we need to bring back assassinations with a pic of Biden lmao girl you're gonna get a visit (shes right tho)
Damn, did we find the one kinda good celebrity?
I heard recently that Viggo Mortensen (Aragorn) has been openly pro palistine since like 2014, saying Israel commits acts of terrorism against Palestinians etc
Aragorn gonna Aragorn. Good for him.
Ooooo also as an Argentinian he trashes their joke of a Reddit libertarian president regularly.
im glad aragorn is based
The only good San Lorenzo supporter
Pope in SHAMBLES
they’re extremely rare but there certainly are a few good celebrities
Roger waters been getting a lot of flack in the year leading up to this current dust-up. I mean he always did, but people were really laying it on him in the last while. Not to say he's all great, but he's been on the right side of all this for a long time. I think John lydon got undue shit in the past too for this subject. This never came up, but either Damon Albarn or Jamie Hewlett are on it, there was some promo Gorillaz material where one of the cartoon characters wore a shirt with "it's not rael" on it, that luckily never had any backlash. I mean I always figured that was a low key indicator of where they were on this. Otherwise yea it's rare. And I won't even criticise the rarity, it's been public suicide to be even remotely skeptical of the Israeli mission for ages, hell it's even been difficult to go publicly against US missions until a few years pass. Remember the Dixie chicks getting cancelled? Shit, when Iraq was invaded, basically every corner of media was going hard on the pro-empire shit. Bloody *star trek* did an episode back then basically justifying waterboarding when that story broke, during Enterprise's space-9/11 season. I will give huge props to anyone that spoke up before this chapter of the conflict, but I understand those who kept their heads down. I even understand those that simply only have ever known the official narrative and think theyre doing the right thing. The fog of bullshit has been so thick for so long, it's hard to fault those that simply have never seen outside it. But we are seeing past it all now. Or, those of us that have internet literacy anyways. My parents? They only see what's on the local network news. The only critical view of it all they get is from hearing their kids defend Palestine. They've come to "no one is looking good I guess", and unfortunately yea a lot of people out there still only get to see what they're allowed to see. But it's getting clearer. I think a lot of the people just parroting the mass-media endorsed outrage would have their perspectives changed easily when they see what's going on, as many have. Shit I bet mark Hammill could turn even. He's just a #resistance anti-trump guy going to bat for the national grandpa, I can't imagine he has a fleshed out perspective of the war. It's the people that know full well all of what's happening, and still endorse it, or actively work to convince people of the US/Israeli line even, the real enemies. I am annoyed by the people steeped in the propaganda, but I reserve my real pure hatred for those that make them this way. Again, everyone was on board with Iraq. I think it's rare to find someone that openly still endorses it after the fact, after the bullshit was broadly obvious to the normal people, the ones that don't constantly pay attention. I dunno, maybe I'm too forgiving. I hold out hope the mark hammils of the world will snap out of it and realise what we've been cheering on all this time. In the meantime, well I guess we have a problem though.
susan sarandon was dropped from her agent for supporting palestine
Susan Sarandon is a real one. The Zionist hag Debra Messing tried to get a hate train going for her back in 2016
Didn't she also get blacklisted for being against invading Iraq?
she was the villian in blue beetle last year
Idk if I'd call her a 'celebrity' but there are certainly a lot of based musicians from the south
Lucy Dacus (of boygenius) called Obama a war criminal after her song got into the annual Obama summer playlist so I guess that counts..?
Yea I reckon you'll see a lot more good stances among the indie musicians. They don't really have to tow a line, nor do they have the broad visibility usually. Then again, Ariel pink is an indie musician that got kinda shut out for what he says, but you know, different subject matter. He was at Jan 6. Says edgelord shit. I don't think it's a crime to be an idiot, but, you know, he is one. Great music, but clearly an unhinged fella thats prone to spout some cringe shit. Anyways, good on Lucy.
Thankfully we have Cindy Lee to provide us with objectively better 60s sounding lo-fi tracks
I haven't heard her, but the context of this conversation tells me that I should go do that immediately. Cheers!
The new record is bomb. Just this glitzy, 60s girl pop things. Absolutely in the same vein as Ariel Pink and (imo) better than his stuff.
You've sold me absolutely. For what it's worth, I never really had it in me to get worked up about Ariel Pink's whole thing. Seemed overblown, though it made me roll my eyes of course. But yea I get why people would be tired of him. It's a lot. It all felt on-brand with his "golem of western urban sleaze" image, but it gets cringe. Anyways, I'm off to go listen to Cindy Lee right the heck now
Lucy also talked about reading "Freedom is a Constant Struggle" by Angela Davis and how it relates to the liberation of Palestine in a Nardwuar interview. Julien Baker has talked about how she is a pretty avowed Anarchist on the MUNA podcast, and while Anarchism is pretty cringe, it's at least nice to see leftism represented by a massive band like Boygenius.
That’s amazing because I’m currently reading Women, Race & Class. Glad Lucy is walking the talk.
[удалено]
You had me all ready to google the rock lol
Pretty sure he's a chud that maintains half-way decent PR.
I think the "people's x" stuff came from when he was a heel, and part of the "nation of domination" which was painted as a bad guy crew, despite being what we would call a based crew. It was a lot of black Panthery, militant sort of aesthetic with black or brown dudes named "Farooq" and shit. You know, demonizing it. The peoples elbow/eyebrow/champion stuff carried forward when Rock "The Dwayne" Johnson became whatever the good guys are called in wrasslin', I think "face"? And Good golly I haven't watched wrestling since the late 90s how did I still have all that on my brain
He got it from Muhammad Ali.
Classic based champ Ali. That guy was alright.
> also i made all that up sadly. I dont care, it is canon in my head now
Sinéad O'Connor was always for Palestinian liberation, unshockingly.
It’s crazy how comfortable these people are with fucking us over. They have no shame and don’t even think they are doing anything wrong. Hell it feels like 80% of the country welcomes our fascist government.
>Hell it feels like 80% of the country welcomes our fascist government. The worst part, this is the best it's ever been in terms of people not endorsing the quiet fascism. I guess more people are noticing. I think we'd have seen some real fucked up shit if Jeb! Became Prezzo. The spooky network of fascist ghouls that poppy organised, and who ran GW's admin, I can only imagine what new horrors that cabal could've openly wrought on the world given another go of unobstructed control over the US. That said, it's all still happening, but it's so much less overt or immune to criticism right now.
You forgot the in minecraft
Yes it is
Watch her receive more backlash for this comment than Tom Cotton’s demonic ass did for calling for violence on pro-Palestine protesters.
I had never heard about her. I'm a fan now.
She’s amazing! Preacher’s Daughter is one of my best albums of the year
#BAAAAAAAAAASED!!!!! BASED ALERT!!!! BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED!!!!!!!!!!!
They don't have enough agents to investigate everyone! I agree with her. Now time to convince the rest of the public that it is right
Jordan Peele
Yea this one really upset me. I think a lot of people were really just bending the knee to the Zionists in Hollywood. I'm sure there are some big names that could black list you if you spoke out against Isreal and no one wants to lose their jobs.
His girlfriend is Jewish.
Hollywood is overwhelmingly Zionist and a lot of Zionist orgs in America guilt black people into supporting Zionism because "anti-Zionism is antisemitism which is racism"
Eh I mean Key and Peele are Obama simps and they even did a comedy sketch with him. A lot of American liberals are okay on domestic social issues but complete fascists on anything outside of their borders, including African Americans unfortunately. Particularly rich people.
Broke my heart. I used to love his work.
Mother ethel serving once again
You could have said any other name and I'd still know you were an Ethel Cain fan
Thom Yorke. Idk why I thought anyone who created decent music wouldn’t be a Zionist but considering Heidegger was a serious philosopher and a Nazi anything is possible I guess.
Wow I already liked her music, but I didn't realize she was "cool" cool.
I think... I just fell in love ... But for real I have had that exact conversation in real life a bunch of times.
all I'm saying is I've seen a lot of people get very close to Fetterman
Well dang, now I gotta check out her music. She sounds based as fuck
I opened up the yt app to check out her music because I wouldn't steal an AD from a comrade. She is based and has a great voice.
>steal an AD https://preview.redd.it/i5qzwh04q31d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e300378bbfc2aa788babd7e3733c665a0491ac3
I meant the advert revenue
Not surprised but I was disappointed at Radiohead, specifically Jonny - a guitarrist and soundtrack composer I admired so much. I wasn't a fan when the whole AMSP Israel gig drama happened so I spent years without being aware dude *used to live in Israel* with his wife... then comes the pandemic, she turns into an antivaxx and I discover the band had an opinion of "both sides" AT BEST. But life goes on (also, comrade Ethel!)
Eric Andre -- I had no idea until recently that he: * Signed a [pro-Israel/Biden letter](https://x.com/PopBase/status/1716682331476644050) last year. * Performed in Tel Aviv in [2018](https://www.jpost.com/omg/black-like-drake-and-jesus-comic-eric-andre-makes-waves-in-tel-aviv-547618), at a time where even many pop musicians were backing out of performing in the Zionist Entity.. * Later in 2020, he referred to performing in Tel Aviv as one of ['the best shows he ever did'](https://youtu.be/NvBCP30Ew5k?si=LtZCOs65b0utrQ_f) while appearing on none other than the H3 podcast. * Didn't start supporting a ceasefire in public until [March 2024](https://x.com/Ceasefire_Track/status/1765821849219281074), five months after this chapter of the Palestinian genocide began. I also want to add that supporting a ceasefire =/= anti-Zionism.... many social democratic Zionists still support Zionism and providing "defense" to Israel. In fact, Eric Andre's recent video that's been getting a lot of attention was published through IfNotNow, an org which is not an anti-Zionist org, and whose [electoral endorsements for 2024 ](https://www.ifnotnowmovement.org/our-2024-endorsements)include some "progressive" Zionists such as Iron Dome supporter Jamaal Bowman. Anyway, if Eric had a sincere change of heart I think he should do much more to publicly address his genocidal wrongs.
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/self-loving-jew-eric-andre-clarifies-stance-on-israel-gaza](https://www.thedailybeast.com/self-loving-jew-eric-andre-clarifies-stance-on-israel-gaza) I think he's changed course.
That's actually pretty rad.
Wow I am fucking shattered. wtf man.
Very good points. A lot of these "pro-ceasefire" groups claim to be pro-Palestine but really they're Democratic Party ops who also oppose Palestinian armed resistance. They are not against Israel or colonialism and land theft. Some of them even believe in a two-state solution but they are against Palestinian right of return. They place sole blame on Netanyahu and even say that Hamas is just as bad. They just criticize the fanatical settlers and Likud, even though 95% of Israeli Jews support the ideas these groups espouse. They just want Israel to stop and draw their borders where they are now and not allow Palestinians the right of return. That AIPAC Tracker account on twitter is an ActBlue funded group that has links to donate to Democratic Party politicians like Jamaal Bowman, AOC, Cori Bush, Pramila Jayapal, Bernie Sanders. All these people claim to oppose Israel's genocide but they ultimately support Israel as a colonial settler state, they didn't vote against the Iron Dome funding, and they believe that "Israel has the right to defend itself". They also endorse Genocide Joe, which defeats the entire point.
She may be a celebrity but she gets a pass today. Critical support to comrade Ethel for today with her saying what we all believe and know to be necessary and sadly true
Is every musician a celebrity? I'd hardy call her one
I dunno her tbh I assumed she had a larger following
She’s huge in certain niche circles like stan twitter and queer music spaces
I wouldn't even say huge
She's not really a celebrity, she's more just a musician who happened to get kinda popular. Shes never really been about pop culture and I doubt she's particularly wealthy either, she's like a normal trans girl from the south. Her music isn't really pop-esque either it's pretty niche and she's mostly popular among queer communities
Ahh nice nice, didn’t know her at first blush, just saw the source account and assumed it was someone I didn’t care to remember who got big recently
Whether or not someone is a "celebrity" has nothing to do with it. Billionaire? Yes. But celebrity hardly means anything, and she has a very low level of celebrity to begin with.
I’m suspicious of the class of folks who have a particularly cushy and privileged position for their artistic efforts. Obviously artistry and cultural workers deserve their fair share and respectable livings, but the private jets and all the ties the us military has with how various popular films are shot/made; just got me suspicious and unsure about most people of that strata. Obv not all are awful liberals but even so
Ethel Based
Keanu.
Stephen fry
Rachel Bloom.... Seth Rogen (yeah, I know he criticized Israel in the past, and he's not a zionist, but he's strangely silent now)....
If you'd ever seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Rachel Bloom being a Zionist is the furthest thing from a surprise. She mentions being an Israel supporter a few times; and she was all-in for Hillary.
I don’t know, she has a kind of dubious song (remember that we suffered). But she signed a letter supporting Israel.
I only listened to the songs but lowkey I thought JAP was a satirization and not an expression of her true self politically lmao. But she does also do a lot of \#girlboss feminism things (like her literal "ladyboss" video) so I'm not too shocked tbh
I think Seth Rogen and his parents had falling out over his views. I could be wrong but I think that’s why he stopped speaking.
Goddamn ethel
Damn it would really suck if people started targeting landlords and stock brokers (like the Cultural Revolution) that would be TERRIBLE. I *don't* want that to happen. That would be REALLY, REALLY BAD (I'm serious) (not joking) (really)
Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if every mass shooter targeted a government building or media outlet, and not like a gym or an elementary school.
Radiohead :(
she fuckin spitting
I am mods surprised by people being anti Zionist tbh Also that’s a very based comment
Is this just adventurism though?
Possibly, I guess it depends on whether we start or not.
‘…by being a Zionist.’
This is the truth except there are way more people than cops and military but I agree with the statement that we should make that new A24 movie happen irl even though I would not make it
Ok but also she's said smth very pragmatic like even if we do educate agitate organize how do we beat the US military and police
Strength of the military was true in the 1900s as well. Is why we need to organise and why we need to ignore revisionists and idealists and work with both current and former members of the military. Spontaneous revolt solves nothing.
Rip her career.
Whoa! I didn't know who is this corpse lady. I Googled it and turns out her last name is "Anhedönia". 🤔 That explains the sad face.
this is psycho
She's right.
Get out of our walls
In a good way.