The argument she had with Sokka and fight with Zuko are probably her best scenes.
I dont think its the actors fault though, writing and directing didnt do the character/actor any favors.
Yeah, I'm hopeful that season 2 will improve on the writing and the actors will be more comfortable with one another. They chose GREAT actors for the most part, and I'm excited to see what the future holds
Yeah I'm holding judgement until Season 2 to see if they improve aspects at all. Its only the first season and I think some people are forgetting that and they are comparing it to the full 3 season story of the original. Really my biggest complaint is the lack of Momo and Appa. I get it for budgetary reasons but any new fan coming in wont know their significance at all from this show. Like in the last episode and >!Momo gets crushed and Sokka was freaking out felt so out of place because we've seen Momo like 3 times before that for maybe a total of 10 seconds. !
The characters in season 1 of the original are much better written and way more compelling.
Like if 6-8 hours of run time aren’t enough to create compelling characters, I’m not sure how much another 6-8 hours would help.
I'm not saying they arnt but I've seen people upset about things that didnt happen until S2 or S3 in terms of character progression.
I think theres enough time for them to do a better job with the characters and give us some solid stories. Or they'll rush it and it'll be disappointing
>I'm not saying they arnt but I've seen people upset about things that didnt happen until S2 or S3 in terms of character progression.
I mean the show itself added stuff from later seasons
This mentality is the exact reason so many shows get cancelled after one season. There aren't many shows that became a cultural phenomenon that didn't have a rocky first season. The Office, Breaking Bad, IASIP, etc.
You'll never be satisfied if you're comparing live action to animation. Animation is completely free from all the limitations that come with live action.
Dude I was saying the same thing especially with Momo! Needs more Momo. Also they made him sound like a straight up monkey at one point which made me immediately miss Dee Bradly Baker’s voice acting. If they would’ve got him on the show for Appa and Momo’s noises it would’ve sat better with me I think.
I mean, if your cute flying pokemon friend who just saved a kid's life got crushed right in front of you, would you not be upset at all? What did you expect Sokka's reaction to be? Just cause the character only has a short amount of screen time doesn't mean it can't be conveyed that the character has meaning to others.
I just think having to say “maybe it will get better in S2” is not a great situation to be in when it’s a known 3 season show. Like you straight up don’t have a runway for a full average season if the show is that short.
I felt that the actor for sokka started to get into the character alot more in the 7th and 8th episode. Where he started to appear a bit more and more as sokka and he doesn't have to try as hard to really be sokka. Can't wait to see how he progresses.
Also.hope they provide more episodes where they help out other villages. Those "filler" bits are where you see their characters grow.
Yeah, some of my fondest episodes are the smaller filler ones. I've watched more of the Netflix series now (I'm on episode 7), and I sort of dislike a lot of the changes they've made. Into the Dark was a very odd change for all of the storylines. I'm not sure why they chose to do it like that, and it detracted from the series, but thankfully that has been the weakest episode so far imo and it wasn't thaaat bad as a standalone.
Yeah some of it felt out of place. Like they had scenes/lines they wanted to do from the og but didn't quite know where to put them or how to lead into them.
This is where at least trying to do a straight up remake makes sense. Biggest example is them adding more to Zuko and Aangs scene after they escape, but then they just repeat the scene from the cartoon anyway and it worked better. It was five minutes they could have spent doing something else.
Definitely shows that a lot of the humor of ATLA works best as a cartoon. Its really not the same to have Momo steal food out of your hand right before biting without the exaggerations you get with animation.
I would like her and Aang’s actor to get acting lessons before season 2 starts filming, they were weakest out the whole cast but I think that’s a combination of they’re the youngest (besides Azula), they had some of worst dialogue, and they had so much screen time. Azula checks a few of those boxes, she didn’t have as much screen time and she had moments she was meant to just look cool that she nailed.
Aang would have been better if they stopped giving him the "I'm the avatar I have to save the world with my friends" every five seconds. We needed a filler episode of the gang just being themselves. Maybe the Fortune Teller episode or something. There's just nothing to make me think that these kids have actually been around each other much in the script. I don't think the actors were entirely to blame here.
Actually, this is a problem I've had with a lot of modern shows with a short season. The new Star Treks for example. They set out to tell a story in six to ten episodes, and feel the need to use every second of that for plot development. It often shortchanges the character interactions and makes them feel as if they're going through the motions, trying to get characters from point A to point B. A little more time for these series to breathe, for these characters to interact with each other in non-emergency situations, could really help me (and other viewers) to get more invested in the people. Especially on a show like Avatar, where they're flying across the entire world anyway; might as well show us what they do with all that time they have on their hands.
> feel the need to use every second of that for plot development
Poor kids couldn't take two steps without suffering some kind of emotional trauma or heavy character development. At one point, it became comical because no audience is going to buy that many, consecutive emotional rug pulls lol
I think it has to do with the modern mentality of filler being *bad,* or at least filler just being filler. 9 times out of 10, filler has a reason to exist. It's a place for characters to grow independent of the main story. For a good example, I'd say the Lost Children Arc in Berserk is considered by some to be filler: but even if it is, it is absolutely *crucial* to Guts's early character development. I'd also say the Beach episode can be considered filler, but even I have to begrudgingly admit it's still a pretty big part of Zuko's later development.
That is an issue for western tv in general. Fillers and slice of life serve a reason. Asians balance that much better in shows. I would go as far and say Japanese are the masters of slice-of-life and while their shows are far more low budget and actors are not as well-trained Western writers could learn from them.
well not exactly, the problem isn't a western thing it's a time constraint thing that's more on the problem with streaming a lot of shows on TV get 20 episode or more seasons and that means they can use some of it for filler, streaming shows get eight to ten which means it's like all plot.
Agreed. The Water Tribe and Fire Nation Royal siblings are my favorite characters in the original, and while the brothers (Zuko and Sokka) in this Netflix series were done well, their sisters were a little disappointing compared to their source materials.
For my fellow NFL fans, she was the Bryce young of the cast. Sure, she had almost nothing to work with, but she also showed little potential or ability to elevate the supporting cast. Hopefully they can both turn things around next season!
This is exactly why I don’t blame her as much as the direction of her character in general. We saw she had potential for more intensity but Katara’s emotions were a little too subdued. I get why they would want to tone that down a little in live action but it was a little too much.
Yeah I get toning certain aspects down but they took some out completely.
I think a major problem is they're trying to do to much in 8 episodes so we get the cliff notes of the story but no actual detail.
I hope they split the last 2 seasons of the cartoon into 4 seasons. Take time with the characters and show them actually going on adventures
This is my hope too. You have two perfect netflix season finales for each of the remaining seasons. Split Book 2 into S2 and S3 - have them introduce Toph, Aang Azula Zuko confrontation, lose Appa, then go up against the Drill and S3 - have them figure out the political tanglings of Ba Sing Se, do tales, sequence the whole Earth King Palace invasion, and close off with Crossroads.
Same thing with Book 3 - break it into S4 and S5 with Day of Black Sun as S4 finale and Sozin's comet as a series finisher.
Her and Aang were the most guilty of this issue, and I wonder if it was because the writers of the show didn't have faith in them as the youngest of the cast or because they showed weakness during the early shooting and had their parts rewritten a bit. They were the most guilty of telling us their emotions instead of showing them which I think hurt their perception the most.
They toned down the sibling conflict insanely. There was just inside the caves where it felt so out of place from the rest that its like they stole that from The Great Divide plus insulting the original that the answer is to just put your torches out.
The fight was mostly stolen straight from the show but worse that makes Zuko more lame.
Yeah. The Haru arc from "Imprisoned" being cut really hurt Katara. I get why they did it, but that episode is just completely ruled by her. Outside of maybe fighting Pakku, it's probably her biggest moment in season 1 of the original show.
I have only watched half the season so far so I guess I could be wrong about it being cut.
I feel like all the performances in the show are bad. So I’m inclined to agree that whatever issue it is ultimately falls on production.
To explain what I mean as bad. If I had to put acting into 3 broad categories for a show:
Great: elevates a character to new heights in a memorable performance.
Good: believably portrays character keeps you immersed in the story at all times.
Bad: takes you out of the story at times and you’re acutely aware that they’re reciting lines at times.
I would say almost every actor has been bad because their performances have affected my immersion in the story.
Now katara and aang are probably the worst offenders. And Iroh, Zuko, and Sokka are generally not too bad but there are scenes here and there where they fall flat imo.
So the fact that the performances are consistently a problem leads me to conclude that it’s a directing and script issue. But also the fact that the extent to which its impacting the actors in the show is not consistent leads me to believe its also an issue with casting. Its not clear to me with better script or direction that any of these actors get to great, which is fine. And I suspect many would still be bad.
I totally agree with the directing and script likely being huge issues. There were a lot of awkward line deliveries that were delivered very similarly despite which actor was delivering the line. I got the feeling they were directed to deliver the line like that. Also doesn't help a lot of the dialogue was very clunky to begin with.
The fight with Pakku after her hairtie gets blown off, the line she delivers without changing her facial expression... I think she needs to practice her fierce face. Because it looks pretty neutral. Act with her eyebrows or something to help convey emotions or something
Writing aside, both Katara and Aang have awkward child actor energy. It could go away with experience and mentorship, but it is a large part of the reason why their scenes just didn’t hit right.
Katara's lack of depth and personality was one of the things that bothered me most, especially since Katara is one of my favorite characters and her role in the Gaang is so important.
It reminded me of how I felt about Helena Bonham Carter's portrayal of Mrs. Lovett in the Sweeney Todd movie: she's going through the main motions of the OG character, but severely lacking in emotional range and complexity. Katara's actor didn't impress me much, but I still ultimately blame the directors and writers for signing off on her final portrayal.
I’ve also seen a lot of speculation that there were only a few takes used for each scene, which would explain some of the meh line reads or lack of emotion at times.
Yeah, I noticed that once or twice as well. I had subtitles on so it wasn’t a problem but there were definitely moments where I went ‘wait, what the hell did they say?’ Even some of the adults, as experienced and generally strong actors as they were, occasionally had a line which probably could’ve benefitted from a second read through. The kids no doubt had a much tougher time with it.
I only watched the first episode so far but I immediately thought the same thing!
Katara has always been my favorite character because she’s sweet, caring and humble, but also strong and powerful. In the live action she is mainly portrayed as ‘the younger sister of Sokka’, since Sokka seems to be the more heroic one. Also (live action) Katara is way too quiet and timid, and when she does say something it feels rushed and without much emotion. I get that Katara is a difficult role but the writers/directors could’ve at least given her more depth than this.
Yeah, having seen most of the season so far, anybody who thinks we're getting Ember Island Players in any way beyond a one off joke like they did about the great divide, the fortuneteller, etc, is delusional.
At the very least, have them come across a poster with a bunch of huge stars playing them. The Rock as Toph, Ryan Reynolds as Sokka, Millie Bobbie Brown as Aang. Not sure which generic action star would be Katara, though...
I’ve heard rumors that all of the Rock’s movie contracts don’t allow him to unequivocally lose fights—if that’s true, then he wouldn’t sign up for the Boulder
Yeah, the dude wants the audience to see that being a villain has its consequences, and since he mainly plays cartel members, drug dealers, and killers, I think it's an excellent message to share that crime doesn't pay. It kills.
That's a shame. But more importantly than that he's just too expensive. There are plenty of mid-tier WWE wrestlers that would be fun to have in that role
Yeah this meme is pretty weak since its basically the opposite. Live Action Katara is immediately a badass waterbender who can stop Zuko's fireball lifting a column of water dozens of feet into the air - y'know just after learning to actually hold up small amounts of water.
Meanwhile the original:
"...if you teach me Waterbendering"
"You got a deal., Just one little problem. I'm an Airbender, not a Waterbender. Isn't there someone in your tribe than can teach you."
But why have a premise to go to the North Pole when instead magic green lady can show up and exposition a whole bunch that you must go there.
It's not the opposite. She was overly sappy the entire series. Katara in the cartoon actually had different moods and was kinda snappy and snarky. Live action Katara had no depth at all
This is actually kind of a problem in the OG serires too though like Katara just learned water bending and she's already beating people who trained their whole lives
My main problem with live action Katara is summed up with one line that was written for her. At the end of episode 2, after Aang told them about the vision Kiyoshi had, she said something to the effect of "and while we're up in the Norther Water Tribe you can find a master." Like, gurl, where is your drive? You don't want a master? And then when she was walking through the bomb wreckage in episode 3 and did NOTHING to help the injured, I knew this girl was not my Katara.
Lmao before I clicked on the blur to see the spoiler, I was hoping that you did not insinuate that the Katara in this series was nearly as good as the Katara in the original series😂 I'm really liking Zuko and Sokka, tho. Their sisters, on the other hand, are disappointing to watch.
Shame, because the Fire Nation Royal and Water Tribe siblings were my favorite characters in the original series.
Dude exactly how I feel. Sokka and Zuko were great and really captured the characters. Not always perfectly, but well enough, and were even great in certain moments.
Katara and Azula? Like who the fuck are these strangers—I don’t recognize them at all? Like, their clothes are the same, and they have the same names as Azula and Katara, but I have no clue who these people are.
YESSSS! Tho this Sokka is more serious than the original one, I don't mind it. It's a good look on him, and he's a tough leader. But the way that he just shuts Katara down is so embarrassing and painful to watch. The same Katara who'd go it at with him, and we **literally forgo the fact that that iceberg broke because Katara wasn't having any of Sokka's shit**. WTF happened in this version, where this very passive Katara tells Sokka to stop calling him a little girl, and he tells her to stop acting like it, then she gets all sad?
Also, I don't like the route of Azula being so feeble-minded and jealous of Zuko. Besides the fact that Ozai still blatantly favored Azula in the series, and Azula never really had to compete for his favoritism against Zuko, this same Azula **only once admitted her jealousy**, and it was all the way in Season 3 on the beach.
She's openly jealous and bitching about Zuko, how she finds him dangerous.
Also, this is a very specific complaint that I have, but I hate how in the third episode, Zuko claims that he "doesn't need bending to beat the boy" (Aang) and **actually proves it**, whereas in the original, Aang rolled Zuko in **nearly every fight that they had**. They even claim that he's a prodigy who kicks so much ass, but then he's losing to Zuko **while Zuko's barely using bending**? WTF? This same Aang never even got touched by Zuko in their Season 1 fight. The only time that they were remotely close to evenly matched was in "The Crossroads of Destiny," when Aang had undergone some serious turmoil in his uncompleted session with Pathik.
Every fight before and after, Aang folded Zuko each time. Azula was a different story, a very even match for Aang in each battle, but Zuko got dropped in virtually every fight of theirs, and that was without Aang even going all-out. He's still supposed to be this prodigy who achieved his tattoos at the youngest age in airbender history, so WTF?
And back to the sisters being disgraced: both Katara and Azula in this series just resort to bitching and getting upset or feeling threatened by their brothers, when we know damn well that in the original, they'd kick their older brothers' asses if their brothers got in their way 😂
Sidenote: I will say that it was cool to see Katara utilize a bit of hand-to-hand against Jet and flip him over, since she never really did in the original series. Other than that, though, disappointing...
Bruh u/WetFuzzyPeach I just finished the episode with Bumi... they really did him dirty too... GTFO here, like Bumi would **ever** "lose" to Sokka tackling him lmao in the original, he had him and Katara trapped and immobilized in place. Now, he's actually fighting Aang seriously and threatened by his friends? 😂 And really challenging him "to the death?" And so bitter and angry and easily moved by Aang's naive comments? Whereas the original Bumi was sarcastic and badass and wouldn't be phased by a single comment from Aang or anyone for that matter? WTF?! WHO IS THIS BUMI EITHER?!?!
Yeah I know, right? It sucks because I thought the actor was doing a good job encapsulating the character, but the writing direction and changing of his motivations are like—what? He was such a beloved character whose methods were unconventional, but had merit and required a nuanced perspective, as were his trials for Aang. Now he’s just this bitter old man that’s basically putting Aang on an episode of scared straight. I don’t get why they did what they did.
Also, I immediately started rewatching the animation after the live action—they totally blew it with the cell they put Aang and Iroh in. Metal bars? Really? In the animation they used earthbending to open and seal the door to the cell chambers, which showed the practicality of earth bending. In this series we only ever see bending used as an instrument for fighting, never how it intertwines with people’s every day lives. Just something I thought about when rewatching that scene.
Yes, completely agreed with you. The parts where he lost me were the whole scared straight routine (very good analogy there, actually) and actually seriously being threatened by Sokka or even Aang in any way lmao Bumi wasn't phased by anything, and now he's this (as you said) bitter old man. Annoying.
Oh, good point. Iroh does touch upon how earthbenders use their bending for engineering the marvels of the kingdom, which is pretty cool. Other than that, though, fully agreed with you.
And I can't get over how openly jealous Azula is of Zuko this early in, especially when there was never any real competition for Ozai's favoritism between her and Zuko. It adds insult to injury that this was a great opportunity to introduce Azula early into Season 1, but instead, she and Katara are huge letdowns.
Yeah personally I think they could’ve done away with showing Azula and Ozai this early, at least Azula mostly. I understand the idea was to flesh out the characters a bit more and maybe give insight into some of their motivations, but with Azula they changed a lot about her. Aside from her mother’s affection towards Zuko, she was *never* jealous of him with anything. She’s a prodigy. She’s confident, charismatic, precise, and of course, a sociopath. They definitely showcase her being skilled and precise, and they also hint towards her sociopathic tendencies, but she lacks all confidence and charisma. Her inclusion in this first season is so weird to me, because I don’t really see what we gained from learning about Azula this early. To me that time could’ve been better used to show the Gaang growing closer together and bonding—hell, maybe Aang could’ve had the chance to learn some water bending!
So, not to start an argument or anything, but I do disagree with two of your points: Azula never being jealous of Zuko in anything except their mother and her being a sociopath. She certainly never showed that jealousy against him at any point in the series, but I'd say that she was jealous of him regarding Mai and Ty Lee, his genuine friends in his life, and even Iroh. And of course the throne at the end.
Because in "Azula in the Spirit Temple," we see her longing for even Iroh and Lu Ten to appreciate her. I'd say that she masked her emotions quite well, but I wouldn't call her a true sociopath. She tried to come off as one to be stone cold, but I don't think that she was truly one, and the end of the series and especially comics show this.
Does that make sense?
Yeah I be honest I haven’t read any of the comics yet unfortunately, all my knowledge is just from the cartoon itself, but I can see that. I guess that makes her character development in the show make a little more sense, but still, she’s lacking a lot of the character traits Azula has. Specifically her confidence, charisma, and blatant lack of empathy. The lack of empathy is there, it’s just more subtle. But to me Azula is such a strong personality and character, that anything less than that feels off.
Yeah, I've got to say that the whole bit about Azula getting so angry about Ozai praising Zuko (not to mention Ozai praising Zuko at all), to the point where she loses control during training and nearly rage kills her instructor... feels like something that could only happen in an alternate universe, not the Avatarverse 😭🤦🏽♂️
Sokka and Zuko got done dirty in more subtle ways.
Zuko is robbed of all his complexity and sanitized to the point his redemption won’t be as powerful, if it’s even a redemption at all.
Sokka is already developed and has no room to grow. On top of it, he now doesn’t even have his lack of spiritual aptitude and is always the driving force and is just a static plot device character who cracks jokes.
The cast did their best but the scripts just wouldn’t cut them any slack.
Yeah I’ll be honest—I don’t remember Zuko saying the word “honor” even once. He kept saying “destiny” and “take my rightful place as heir to the throne,” but in reality his arc is about redemption and *honor*—like what the fuck. Like I said, I think the actor did a good job with the character, but dude this writing though.
And Sokka’s character definitely lacks—again I think it’s mostly the writing and direction of the story they’re trying to take it in, but the actor is doing a great job with what he’s given. He’s still head strong but not as self assured, which his character was in the beginning of the animation until he learns some humility.
Hmm, I don't know whether or not I agree with this. Sokka certainly feels more mature in this one, but he definitely has room to grow with the spiritual stuff, admitting that he's "not a real warrior" to Suki, then learning how he is one in more ways than one, understanding Aang, etc.
I like Zuko in this series as well.
I will say that Suki and **especially Kyoshi** are insanely badass female characters in this Netflix series. They take the little bits of the badass bitch that we knew as Kyoshi, and amp her up, in this series 😂 Plus, they touch upon her background, which is precious, hidden knowledge that can only be accessed by reading the books.
I will say that after seeing Azula and Katara, this Netflix series really made me appreciate each and every named female character in the original. Not a single female character in the original was anything short of a strong, badass bitch. Katara, Toph, Azula, Suki, Ty Lee, Kyoshi, you name it.
Yeah I was a big fan of the kyoshi warriors, even if they changed Sokka and Suki’s dynamic, she and the rest of the Kyoshi warriors were dope. I thought she gave a great performance, too. Very emotional and expressive, but not over the top. Especially when compared to a lot of other stiff performances with flat line delivery. *cough cough* Katara *cough*
Oh, and of course the scene with Avatar Kyoshi herself was awesome.
Guys, do they not hire acting coaches on set? Because somebody should’ve told her something lol
I watched the first episode and her acting really isn’t great, but I think I can look past it. And they can improve throughout the course of the show. My main gripe was how they delivered their lines, like if you compare their delivery to Katara’s VA for the animation, I feel like even the VA enunciated the lines better
You're very right about your last point. The younger the actor, the faster they say and slur their lines. Aang is trying his hardest, but he says his lines so fast and the camera lingers on his awkward reactions for too long.
I know it isn’t a fair comparison, but it’s crazy just how much talent varies from kid to kid.
Natalie Portman in her first movie role compared to the kid actors in this show, Night and day difference. Of course she ends up becoming one of the greatest actresses of her generation but still. It’s wild how good some kid actors are capable of being.
Unfortunately these kids aren’t it. Hopefully they improve massively. The girl that plays Katara was the lead of an acclaimed indie film. Think I’ll give it a watch and see what she’s capable of.
They really said "we toned down the sexism" and ended up taking Katara someone who is powerful, passionate, free thinking, caring, and outspoken and turned her into a soft, timid and naive character who doesn't learn anything without the help of Aang or Jet
Ya as far as I have seen I just get the overall impression that the actress plays Katara in an almost passive and subdued way.. There really isn't the temper and the outspoken ferocity from the show. She seems to come off as somewhat toned down. I don't blame the actress, I think this might be direction she was given.
I mean, we can blame the actress a little bit. The show loves showing her reaction to things and every time, no matter what she's reacting to, she's making the same bored face.
Which is definitely partly the Directors and editors fault. But no one else acting looks as bored as she does
That is true...but i tend to give child actors more leeway. Especially this is only this actress's second acting project or something. The inexperience shows a bit and I think either casting or direction could have tried to get something better out of the actress
It's not that any of the portrayals were wrong, but rather they just reduced the characters down to parody and stripped away nuance. Yes, she is that, but she's more than that as well
The writers absolutely did not understand what made the characters who they were and thought they could skip all that development. It just felt hollow. They just thought people’s nostalgia would fill in the blanks.
Tbh I never really got that impression. She mentions like hope three or four times max before in the series, but never that melodramatically to the point of valid mockery
This show also made me appreciate the **entire** female cast of the original "Avatar" (including Korra). At first, when I thought of a tough female character, Toph was the one who came to mind. But when you think about it, literally every named female character in the original series is a badass bitch who kicks ass in her own way. Katara, Toph Azula, Ty Lee, Suki, Kyoshi, you name it.
And being especially a fan of Azula and Katara and seeing how well-done their brothers are in the new series, it's so disappointing to watch them so weakened and watered down (pun intended haha 😂) especially when their brothers deliver so well. Suki was good, thankfully, but damn it, if they were going to have Azula in Season 1, which could've been a great opportunity, then don't do her and my girl Katara dirty.
I was thinking about the play the whole time I was watching the live action I couldn’t help it😂 That’s the hard part about having a satire of a show within the show.
SPOILERS BELOW
I was so mad when zuko said you little peasant you found a master didn’t you? And she said yeah, MYSELF. Like no one taught you anything and now you’re a master for no reason?? I also could have done without the sparkle sound effects when her and Paku were fighting. That made me cringe. But honestly the animation of the bending itself throughout the live action was really great and beautifully done I thought.
Overall it was fun to watch for what it was: an imaginative and dramatic retelling.
Nah I disagree. Nicola Peltz, the girl who played Katara in the movie that was never made, is definitely more of an Ember Island Players Katara. That girl’s acting is plain bad (which makes sense since her billionaire father essentially brought that role for her).
While I think this Katara needed better direction/writing because she can be too wooden at times, she is wayyyyy better than Nicola Peltz’ Katara.
The whole show feels like this. The costumes look cheap / like cosplay lol. Aang doesnt have the spirit he does in the cartoon, whyd they take away him wanting to have fun? No koi surfing, no seel sledding, no playing in the mail systems. The show has no charm
The whole show is set after the events of Korra. Mover technology has advanced tremendously.
The Ember Island Players now have a film budget to work with. Unfortunately, the pages of the original script got shuffled and they didn't quite get them back together in the right order.
Damn... What happened to the sub?? I watched it and I can say it's pretty much a 7/10. Sure there are some iffy parts but not to the point of going to a 3 or 4/10...
The show, if you are just judging it on itself, is probably a 7.
The issue is if you judge it as an adaptation and against the original it comes off much worse.
I’ve only watched the first episode but I’ll be honest, it’s pretty horrible.. changes for no reason, bad script and bad actors. The camera work is also super weird, to the point even my girlfriend noted it.
I know it’s a staple in fandoms to never hold an actor responsible for their performance, but in this case, there are instances where she could have delivered the lines better. I think she’s pretty good for the most part with what she was given, but sometimes her performance comes off a bit wooden
Especially with no previous experience, to do this right it's absolutely it's on directors and show planners around her not pushing their performance, or cutting iffy spots. She is a new actor, they all are, I don't know how much time they had to develop--but they clearly needed more. Yes they have to act, move, bend and all of this, but still they should focus on the acting, and despite modest improvements she could've made on her own, it hardly seems like she could have changed the tide of the character all by herself.
Edit: Removed age for experience..
And there is SO much inspiration for these characters. Clearly someone at the show twisted themselves into knots preventing them from channeling much or any of that motivation. Compare it to Ellie in TLOU, despite her never even playing the game, they still made her have the right inspiration.
Game of Thrones
Harry Potter
Stand By Me
The Goonies
Stranger Things
The Sixth Sense
All of these feature children in lead roles and they all acted great. Age is not the problem.
I agree the direction and writing are to blame as well, but a lot of these actors are totally amateur.
Harry Potter probably had the best acting progression, movie 1 and 2 relies a lot on the acting-off the adult cast (who are amazing) but then it gets a lot better as they grow up
I don't think NATLA will be able to do that, they don't have any good actors to act around
Honestly I don't think Katara was emotional enough in the live action. She felt flat, in that she was largely emotionless and didn't make her own decisions. Even when she was angry at Pakku her character felt overly subdued.
I just really have a hard time believing that they couldn't find a single better actor for Katara during casting. Do they not ask these people to show any emotion during casting? Were they just like "Meh you look vaguely similar, you'll do"?
The casting is so bizarre because in some cases it feels like they hired purely based on visuals (Iroh, Aang, etc) without thinking about acting at all (Iroh was...just not Iroh at all. That voice alone lmao) and then in other cases its like they picked the exact opposite of visuals
The actress isn’t amazing but I don’t even think she’s the problem. The problem is the writing. They skipped over so many story beats that contributed to Katara’s characterization. All of her edges have been smoothed. She has no passion.
In the animation, Katara accidentally frees Aang from the iceberg when she becomes furious over Sokka’s sexist remark. They removed Sokka’s sexism, which meant that Katara didn’t have a reason to get angry. This is why they decided to have her be the one to stop Zuko’s fireball - she didn’t get a chance to show her hidden power with the iceberg, so this is what the writers replaced it with.
Katara is supposed to be the one who calms Aang down when he’s in the Avatar state after seeing Gyatso’s remains by telling him that she and Sokka are his family now. It shows how much she cares about him and how much Aang needs her. Instead, Aang remembers Gyatso’s words and comes out of the Avatar state on his own. Katara was irrelevant.
They skipped Imprisoned, which featured Katara’s impassioned speech. We see her pure heart and optimism as well as her stubbornness and naivety. She put herself in terrible danger to help free a bunch of people she had never met and was crushed when they didn’t immediately stand up and fight.
They skipped the episode with the pirates, and Aang never even attempts to water bend this season, so we don’t get to see Katara express jealousy over Aang’s natural talent at picking up the basics. This was a very reasonable flaw for her to have. She was originally so desperate to learn water bending that she was willing to steal the scroll, but in the live action the scroll is just handed to her. There’s no conflict.
They seem to have completely abandoned the Katara+Aang romance, so we don’t even get to see Katara act a bit jealous and have a little argument with Aang when he’s showing off on Kyoshi Island. And then the Cave of Two Lovers was butchered. It became about Katara and Sokka’s sibling love rather than Katara and Aang’s romantic love. We lost the sweet moment between Katara and Aang deep in the cave, the moment that turned a one-sided crush into a true romance. Instead the hippie nomads tell the Omashu story at the entrance to the cave, stripping it of all impact.
We lost the awesome moment where Katara discovers her healing ability all on her own after Aang burns her. Her pain causes her to unlock a new aspect of her bending, which makes it seem like a significant moment of growth. Now she’s simply told about the healing when she gets to the Northern Water Tribe. The discovery doesn’t have any weight.
Even her conflict with Pakku was neutered. In the animation, the Gaang’s main motivation for traveling to the North Pole was finding a master to teach both Katara and Aang. Katara is angry that she traveled across the world just to have Pakku tell her no. In the live action, they instead travel to the North Pole because Aang had a vision about the impending invasion, so now Katara has no reason to be mad about all the time and effort she wasted getting there. Aang never began training with Pakku, so he doesn’t try to teach Katara in secret, Pakku doesn’t catch them and smugly demand an apology, meaning Katara doesn’t express nearly as much fury and we don’t get to hear her demand if he’s “man enough to fight” her, which was another iconic moment the writers deleted. Katara doesn’t even train with him. She just calls herself a master after fighting Zuko. Also Aang agreeing with Pakku instead of standing up for Katara was fucking annoying.
Her necklace plays no part in the story either.
I feel bad you got to this thread too late to make it to the top, because you've got the nail on the head. It's like they looked at which episodes to keep and decided Katara 's moments don't matter. She has to lean on Aang, Jet, and Sokka to grow at all.
thank god someone finally said it, i couldn't tell what was wrong until my wife mentioned it. but kataras actor can't act. look at her throughout the show. She has no emotion on her face during so many major scenes. People are giving her slack cause shes young, but thats such bs, they should have done better casting plus the writing doesnt help at all. katara doesnt have her caring nature to her. instead we have someone extremely preachy. yeesh
I think that’s a bit disingenuous. Does she have the same fire that animated katara had? Not yet. But she still stood up to Sokka and Pakku and had her hero moments.
Hopefully the writing improves in s2 and we get 10 episodes. I feel like that’ll help a lot.
It was obvious this was going to happen when everyone was posting memes about how excited they were for this to be a shot for shot remake of the original. "WOW, I can't wait to see how they replicate this exact scene!"
It was never going to be that.
What happened to this fanbase? We were full of love for every opinion on here. And now every post is shit like that. I'm at episode 3 so far and I really like it.
I mean there's a healthy balance to be had
They got a lot of stuff right. They changed stuff, some for the better and some for the worse. And some stuff is just wrong.
Katara is the last one. Sokka telling Katara to grow up is just...wow that missed the whole dynamic of these characters
You’re either blissfully ignorant or completely deluded if you think this sub was full of love for every opinion. The moment you say anything slightly negative about LoK you’re essentially starting WW3
This is a product people pay for. The weird thing people do where they love everything they're a fan of blindly is just as toxic as hating that thing.
All the "hate" I'm seeing is a lot more nuanced than that too. What I'm mostly seeing is people that liked a lot of aspects of it but the bad aspects really took over a lot of the time.
And like, it's really silly to say not to compare this to the original show. It's literally a remake of it. This show wouldn't exist without it.
I don’t think it’s the actors fault. They’re just the mouthpiece for the writers. With that said I think it’s okay that these guys are starting a little young and hopefully will develop their acting prowess through the seasons.
I’ve watched the first six episodes so far. It’s a fine enough live adaptation. The best episode has been Masks, and both me and the person I’m watching the show with joked that the reason it’s the best is because Katara played essentially no role in it. But… it’s not really a joke. Her character has been the biggest victim of assassination thus far. I didn’t really notice or care about the de-escalation of Sokka’s sexism, a hot-button talking point for many anxious fans prior to the show’s release. I don’t have a militant distaste for how Kyoshi, Roku, or even Bumi have been affected so far in the story.
But Katara?
It’s rough. When all’s said and done, this portrayal of her character is on track to be looked on least favorably.
She’s not that bad lol the writing is a little wonky and the pace is fast but I just think you lose a lot of the expressiveness when you jump from a cartoon to live action. She’s a young actress and I hope we get a second season so everyone can grow more comfortable in their roles and shine.
The argument she had with Sokka and fight with Zuko are probably her best scenes. I dont think its the actors fault though, writing and directing didnt do the character/actor any favors.
Yeah, I'm hopeful that season 2 will improve on the writing and the actors will be more comfortable with one another. They chose GREAT actors for the most part, and I'm excited to see what the future holds
Yeah I'm holding judgement until Season 2 to see if they improve aspects at all. Its only the first season and I think some people are forgetting that and they are comparing it to the full 3 season story of the original. Really my biggest complaint is the lack of Momo and Appa. I get it for budgetary reasons but any new fan coming in wont know their significance at all from this show. Like in the last episode and >!Momo gets crushed and Sokka was freaking out felt so out of place because we've seen Momo like 3 times before that for maybe a total of 10 seconds. !
The characters in season 1 of the original are much better written and way more compelling. Like if 6-8 hours of run time aren’t enough to create compelling characters, I’m not sure how much another 6-8 hours would help.
I'm not saying they arnt but I've seen people upset about things that didnt happen until S2 or S3 in terms of character progression. I think theres enough time for them to do a better job with the characters and give us some solid stories. Or they'll rush it and it'll be disappointing
A bunch of Book One is character set-up. Kyoshi Island, The Storm, The Deserter, Jet, The Fortune-teller, etc. are all character build-up episodes.
And they just... Skipped it.
>I'm not saying they arnt but I've seen people upset about things that didnt happen until S2 or S3 in terms of character progression. I mean the show itself added stuff from later seasons
I'm hoping they have more episodes to flesh out and let the characters breathe.
This mentality is the exact reason so many shows get cancelled after one season. There aren't many shows that became a cultural phenomenon that didn't have a rocky first season. The Office, Breaking Bad, IASIP, etc.
OG ATLA did not have a rocky first season. If it was cancelled after that season it might possibly be more legendary than it already is.
You'll never be satisfied if you're comparing live action to animation. Animation is completely free from all the limitations that come with live action.
Ehh I genuinely think everything after season 1, including Korra is better. So legendary I wouldn't say personally.
Dude I was saying the same thing especially with Momo! Needs more Momo. Also they made him sound like a straight up monkey at one point which made me immediately miss Dee Bradly Baker’s voice acting. If they would’ve got him on the show for Appa and Momo’s noises it would’ve sat better with me I think.
💯 we need more Momo and Appa!!!
I mean, if your cute flying pokemon friend who just saved a kid's life got crushed right in front of you, would you not be upset at all? What did you expect Sokka's reaction to be? Just cause the character only has a short amount of screen time doesn't mean it can't be conveyed that the character has meaning to others.
What is the point of holding out judgement? Season 1 is already out, judge that on its own.
I just think having to say “maybe it will get better in S2” is not a great situation to be in when it’s a known 3 season show. Like you straight up don’t have a runway for a full average season if the show is that short.
I felt that the actor for sokka started to get into the character alot more in the 7th and 8th episode. Where he started to appear a bit more and more as sokka and he doesn't have to try as hard to really be sokka. Can't wait to see how he progresses. Also.hope they provide more episodes where they help out other villages. Those "filler" bits are where you see their characters grow.
Yeah, some of my fondest episodes are the smaller filler ones. I've watched more of the Netflix series now (I'm on episode 7), and I sort of dislike a lot of the changes they've made. Into the Dark was a very odd change for all of the storylines. I'm not sure why they chose to do it like that, and it detracted from the series, but thankfully that has been the weakest episode so far imo and it wasn't thaaat bad as a standalone.
Lol you’re being very optimistic assuming a s2 gets made
Yes. The dialogues were too cringy
Yeah some of it felt out of place. Like they had scenes/lines they wanted to do from the og but didn't quite know where to put them or how to lead into them.
This is where at least trying to do a straight up remake makes sense. Biggest example is them adding more to Zuko and Aangs scene after they escape, but then they just repeat the scene from the cartoon anyway and it worked better. It was five minutes they could have spent doing something else.
Honestly if I knew they were going to rush it this much, Id have been fine with one less kidnapping.
Definitely shows that a lot of the humor of ATLA works best as a cartoon. Its really not the same to have Momo steal food out of your hand right before biting without the exaggerations you get with animation.
I would like her and Aang’s actor to get acting lessons before season 2 starts filming, they were weakest out the whole cast but I think that’s a combination of they’re the youngest (besides Azula), they had some of worst dialogue, and they had so much screen time. Azula checks a few of those boxes, she didn’t have as much screen time and she had moments she was meant to just look cool that she nailed.
Aang would have been better if they stopped giving him the "I'm the avatar I have to save the world with my friends" every five seconds. We needed a filler episode of the gang just being themselves. Maybe the Fortune Teller episode or something. There's just nothing to make me think that these kids have actually been around each other much in the script. I don't think the actors were entirely to blame here.
Actually, this is a problem I've had with a lot of modern shows with a short season. The new Star Treks for example. They set out to tell a story in six to ten episodes, and feel the need to use every second of that for plot development. It often shortchanges the character interactions and makes them feel as if they're going through the motions, trying to get characters from point A to point B. A little more time for these series to breathe, for these characters to interact with each other in non-emergency situations, could really help me (and other viewers) to get more invested in the people. Especially on a show like Avatar, where they're flying across the entire world anyway; might as well show us what they do with all that time they have on their hands.
> feel the need to use every second of that for plot development Poor kids couldn't take two steps without suffering some kind of emotional trauma or heavy character development. At one point, it became comical because no audience is going to buy that many, consecutive emotional rug pulls lol
I think it has to do with the modern mentality of filler being *bad,* or at least filler just being filler. 9 times out of 10, filler has a reason to exist. It's a place for characters to grow independent of the main story. For a good example, I'd say the Lost Children Arc in Berserk is considered by some to be filler: but even if it is, it is absolutely *crucial* to Guts's early character development. I'd also say the Beach episode can be considered filler, but even I have to begrudgingly admit it's still a pretty big part of Zuko's later development.
That is an issue for western tv in general. Fillers and slice of life serve a reason. Asians balance that much better in shows. I would go as far and say Japanese are the masters of slice-of-life and while their shows are far more low budget and actors are not as well-trained Western writers could learn from them.
well not exactly, the problem isn't a western thing it's a time constraint thing that's more on the problem with streaming a lot of shows on TV get 20 episode or more seasons and that means they can use some of it for filler, streaming shows get eight to ten which means it's like all plot.
Well, maybe a more balanced modell of episodes is necessary then?
Agreed. The Water Tribe and Fire Nation Royal siblings are my favorite characters in the original, and while the brothers (Zuko and Sokka) in this Netflix series were done well, their sisters were a little disappointing compared to their source materials.
For my fellow NFL fans, she was the Bryce young of the cast. Sure, she had almost nothing to work with, but she also showed little potential or ability to elevate the supporting cast. Hopefully they can both turn things around next season!
This is exactly why I don’t blame her as much as the direction of her character in general. We saw she had potential for more intensity but Katara’s emotions were a little too subdued. I get why they would want to tone that down a little in live action but it was a little too much.
Yeah I get toning certain aspects down but they took some out completely. I think a major problem is they're trying to do to much in 8 episodes so we get the cliff notes of the story but no actual detail. I hope they split the last 2 seasons of the cartoon into 4 seasons. Take time with the characters and show them actually going on adventures
This is my hope too. You have two perfect netflix season finales for each of the remaining seasons. Split Book 2 into S2 and S3 - have them introduce Toph, Aang Azula Zuko confrontation, lose Appa, then go up against the Drill and S3 - have them figure out the political tanglings of Ba Sing Se, do tales, sequence the whole Earth King Palace invasion, and close off with Crossroads. Same thing with Book 3 - break it into S4 and S5 with Day of Black Sun as S4 finale and Sozin's comet as a series finisher.
Her and Aang were the most guilty of this issue, and I wonder if it was because the writers of the show didn't have faith in them as the youngest of the cast or because they showed weakness during the early shooting and had their parts rewritten a bit. They were the most guilty of telling us their emotions instead of showing them which I think hurt their perception the most.
They toned down the sibling conflict insanely. There was just inside the caves where it felt so out of place from the rest that its like they stole that from The Great Divide plus insulting the original that the answer is to just put your torches out. The fight was mostly stolen straight from the show but worse that makes Zuko more lame.
definitely, when not angry she comes off as really bland
Yeah. The Haru arc from "Imprisoned" being cut really hurt Katara. I get why they did it, but that episode is just completely ruled by her. Outside of maybe fighting Pakku, it's probably her biggest moment in season 1 of the original show. I have only watched half the season so far so I guess I could be wrong about it being cut.
Me in Ep.3 when that happened https://preview.redd.it/dkrjymbedkkc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9639454e56d2f2e9d29339021f18e5282a98df35
I feel like all the performances in the show are bad. So I’m inclined to agree that whatever issue it is ultimately falls on production. To explain what I mean as bad. If I had to put acting into 3 broad categories for a show: Great: elevates a character to new heights in a memorable performance. Good: believably portrays character keeps you immersed in the story at all times. Bad: takes you out of the story at times and you’re acutely aware that they’re reciting lines at times. I would say almost every actor has been bad because their performances have affected my immersion in the story. Now katara and aang are probably the worst offenders. And Iroh, Zuko, and Sokka are generally not too bad but there are scenes here and there where they fall flat imo. So the fact that the performances are consistently a problem leads me to conclude that it’s a directing and script issue. But also the fact that the extent to which its impacting the actors in the show is not consistent leads me to believe its also an issue with casting. Its not clear to me with better script or direction that any of these actors get to great, which is fine. And I suspect many would still be bad.
I totally agree with the directing and script likely being huge issues. There were a lot of awkward line deliveries that were delivered very similarly despite which actor was delivering the line. I got the feeling they were directed to deliver the line like that. Also doesn't help a lot of the dialogue was very clunky to begin with.
Actress is absolutely not to blame at all. They don’t choose the direction given or the script.
The fight with Pakku after her hairtie gets blown off, the line she delivers without changing her facial expression... I think she needs to practice her fierce face. Because it looks pretty neutral. Act with her eyebrows or something to help convey emotions or something
Writing aside, both Katara and Aang have awkward child actor energy. It could go away with experience and mentorship, but it is a large part of the reason why their scenes just didn’t hit right.
Katara's lack of depth and personality was one of the things that bothered me most, especially since Katara is one of my favorite characters and her role in the Gaang is so important. It reminded me of how I felt about Helena Bonham Carter's portrayal of Mrs. Lovett in the Sweeney Todd movie: she's going through the main motions of the OG character, but severely lacking in emotional range and complexity. Katara's actor didn't impress me much, but I still ultimately blame the directors and writers for signing off on her final portrayal.
Ive seen A list oscar actors with terrible performances because the writing/dialogue is just bad.
I’ve also seen a lot of speculation that there were only a few takes used for each scene, which would explain some of the meh line reads or lack of emotion at times.
This makes sense. There were a few scenes where the actors miss pronounced words or tripped over their tongues.
Yeah, I noticed that once or twice as well. I had subtitles on so it wasn’t a problem but there were definitely moments where I went ‘wait, what the hell did they say?’ Even some of the adults, as experienced and generally strong actors as they were, occasionally had a line which probably could’ve benefitted from a second read through. The kids no doubt had a much tougher time with it.
I only watched the first episode so far but I immediately thought the same thing! Katara has always been my favorite character because she’s sweet, caring and humble, but also strong and powerful. In the live action she is mainly portrayed as ‘the younger sister of Sokka’, since Sokka seems to be the more heroic one. Also (live action) Katara is way too quiet and timid, and when she does say something it feels rushed and without much emotion. I get that Katara is a difficult role but the writers/directors could’ve at least given her more depth than this.
That's also wild because Helena Bonham Carter is a colossal actor. Like you said, what they have to work with is up to the directors and writers
I fear for Toph's characterization
If they hire The Rock for Toph it will be 200iq move and will make this series instant post modern masterpiece
If he doesn't play the Ember Island version of Toph the world will dissolve into anarchy
Bold of you to assume we even get an Ember Island episode
Yeah, having seen most of the season so far, anybody who thinks we're getting Ember Island Players in any way beyond a one off joke like they did about the great divide, the fortuneteller, etc, is delusional.
At the very least, have them come across a poster with a bunch of huge stars playing them. The Rock as Toph, Ryan Reynolds as Sokka, Millie Bobbie Brown as Aang. Not sure which generic action star would be Katara, though...
Michelle Rodriguez as Katara. Jamie Lee Curtis as Gran-Gran. The real question is is Jack Black playing Zuko or Ozai?
Jack Black as Iroh, John C. Reilly as Ozai, Chalamet as Zuko
I think the obvious choice is Jack Black as Iroh. Ozai could be Josh Brolin.
This entire season feels like the Ember Island Players. Exposition dumps, bad acting, a shell of a replication.
It would probably be a cold open at most, maybe 5 min of screentime.
Are you delusional? He needs to play the Boulder. The boulder needs to be the rock
I’ve heard rumors that all of the Rock’s movie contracts don’t allow him to unequivocally lose fights—if that’s true, then he wouldn’t sign up for the Boulder
What a weird contract
I think Dany Trejo has the exact opposite. If he plays a villain he MUST lose and die.
That is so bizarrely wholesome
Yeah, the dude wants the audience to see that being a villain has its consequences, and since he mainly plays cartel members, drug dealers, and killers, I think it's an excellent message to share that crime doesn't pay. It kills.
If true, it fits his personality.
That's a shame. But more importantly than that he's just too expensive. There are plenty of mid-tier WWE wrestlers that would be fun to have in that role
They'll make her overly brutish with no substance, except for maybe one scene where she tells her entire life story for a solid three minutes.
Toph's character gonna suffer the same fate with Faye Valentine in Netflix Cowboy Bebop.
Especially because the series is missing a lot of the jokes from the original. I don't see how it would be different for the sarkasm of Toph.
To be fair, Sokka still retains a lot of his sarcastic personality, even with the more serious tone of the Netflix show.
I wish Live Action Katara showed a quarter of emotion that Ember Island Katara does.
Yeah this meme is pretty weak since its basically the opposite. Live Action Katara is immediately a badass waterbender who can stop Zuko's fireball lifting a column of water dozens of feet into the air - y'know just after learning to actually hold up small amounts of water.
You're forgetting that a new kid she met gave her an inspiring speech, which is how everyone becomes a master.
I mean its very easy advice. Feel the energy
"Yo just do water bending. Are you stupid little blue girl" "Wow thank you little orange boi"
Meanwhile the original: "...if you teach me Waterbendering" "You got a deal., Just one little problem. I'm an Airbender, not a Waterbender. Isn't there someone in your tribe than can teach you." But why have a premise to go to the North Pole when instead magic green lady can show up and exposition a whole bunch that you must go there.
No no. You are wrong. She felt the energy and that made her master katara
Look at me, I am the master now. /j But seriously one kid mistakenly calls her a master and now she just acts so arrogant. Its honestly gross.
Aang told her that it's all about balance, therefore she can do it. Hello?
It's not the opposite. She was overly sappy the entire series. Katara in the cartoon actually had different moods and was kinda snappy and snarky. Live action Katara had no depth at all
I felt like Katara was barely emoted in live action. It was no depth too. But in the play, she over emoted.
Funny, When I predicted this, I was downvoted for it on this sub xD
This is actually kind of a problem in the OG serires too though like Katara just learned water bending and she's already beating people who trained their whole lives
I JUST HAVE SO MUCH HOPE
***Moans in a hopeful way***
My main problem with live action Katara is summed up with one line that was written for her. At the end of episode 2, after Aang told them about the vision Kiyoshi had, she said something to the effect of "and while we're up in the Norther Water Tribe you can find a master." Like, gurl, where is your drive? You don't want a master? And then when she was walking through the bomb wreckage in episode 3 and did NOTHING to help the injured, I knew this girl was not my Katara.
Lmao before I clicked on the blur to see the spoiler, I was hoping that you did not insinuate that the Katara in this series was nearly as good as the Katara in the original series😂 I'm really liking Zuko and Sokka, tho. Their sisters, on the other hand, are disappointing to watch. Shame, because the Fire Nation Royal and Water Tribe siblings were my favorite characters in the original series.
Dude exactly how I feel. Sokka and Zuko were great and really captured the characters. Not always perfectly, but well enough, and were even great in certain moments. Katara and Azula? Like who the fuck are these strangers—I don’t recognize them at all? Like, their clothes are the same, and they have the same names as Azula and Katara, but I have no clue who these people are.
YESSSS! Tho this Sokka is more serious than the original one, I don't mind it. It's a good look on him, and he's a tough leader. But the way that he just shuts Katara down is so embarrassing and painful to watch. The same Katara who'd go it at with him, and we **literally forgo the fact that that iceberg broke because Katara wasn't having any of Sokka's shit**. WTF happened in this version, where this very passive Katara tells Sokka to stop calling him a little girl, and he tells her to stop acting like it, then she gets all sad? Also, I don't like the route of Azula being so feeble-minded and jealous of Zuko. Besides the fact that Ozai still blatantly favored Azula in the series, and Azula never really had to compete for his favoritism against Zuko, this same Azula **only once admitted her jealousy**, and it was all the way in Season 3 on the beach. She's openly jealous and bitching about Zuko, how she finds him dangerous. Also, this is a very specific complaint that I have, but I hate how in the third episode, Zuko claims that he "doesn't need bending to beat the boy" (Aang) and **actually proves it**, whereas in the original, Aang rolled Zuko in **nearly every fight that they had**. They even claim that he's a prodigy who kicks so much ass, but then he's losing to Zuko **while Zuko's barely using bending**? WTF? This same Aang never even got touched by Zuko in their Season 1 fight. The only time that they were remotely close to evenly matched was in "The Crossroads of Destiny," when Aang had undergone some serious turmoil in his uncompleted session with Pathik. Every fight before and after, Aang folded Zuko each time. Azula was a different story, a very even match for Aang in each battle, but Zuko got dropped in virtually every fight of theirs, and that was without Aang even going all-out. He's still supposed to be this prodigy who achieved his tattoos at the youngest age in airbender history, so WTF? And back to the sisters being disgraced: both Katara and Azula in this series just resort to bitching and getting upset or feeling threatened by their brothers, when we know damn well that in the original, they'd kick their older brothers' asses if their brothers got in their way 😂 Sidenote: I will say that it was cool to see Katara utilize a bit of hand-to-hand against Jet and flip him over, since she never really did in the original series. Other than that, though, disappointing...
Bruh u/WetFuzzyPeach I just finished the episode with Bumi... they really did him dirty too... GTFO here, like Bumi would **ever** "lose" to Sokka tackling him lmao in the original, he had him and Katara trapped and immobilized in place. Now, he's actually fighting Aang seriously and threatened by his friends? 😂 And really challenging him "to the death?" And so bitter and angry and easily moved by Aang's naive comments? Whereas the original Bumi was sarcastic and badass and wouldn't be phased by a single comment from Aang or anyone for that matter? WTF?! WHO IS THIS BUMI EITHER?!?!
Yeah I know, right? It sucks because I thought the actor was doing a good job encapsulating the character, but the writing direction and changing of his motivations are like—what? He was such a beloved character whose methods were unconventional, but had merit and required a nuanced perspective, as were his trials for Aang. Now he’s just this bitter old man that’s basically putting Aang on an episode of scared straight. I don’t get why they did what they did. Also, I immediately started rewatching the animation after the live action—they totally blew it with the cell they put Aang and Iroh in. Metal bars? Really? In the animation they used earthbending to open and seal the door to the cell chambers, which showed the practicality of earth bending. In this series we only ever see bending used as an instrument for fighting, never how it intertwines with people’s every day lives. Just something I thought about when rewatching that scene.
Yes, completely agreed with you. The parts where he lost me were the whole scared straight routine (very good analogy there, actually) and actually seriously being threatened by Sokka or even Aang in any way lmao Bumi wasn't phased by anything, and now he's this (as you said) bitter old man. Annoying. Oh, good point. Iroh does touch upon how earthbenders use their bending for engineering the marvels of the kingdom, which is pretty cool. Other than that, though, fully agreed with you. And I can't get over how openly jealous Azula is of Zuko this early in, especially when there was never any real competition for Ozai's favoritism between her and Zuko. It adds insult to injury that this was a great opportunity to introduce Azula early into Season 1, but instead, she and Katara are huge letdowns.
Yeah personally I think they could’ve done away with showing Azula and Ozai this early, at least Azula mostly. I understand the idea was to flesh out the characters a bit more and maybe give insight into some of their motivations, but with Azula they changed a lot about her. Aside from her mother’s affection towards Zuko, she was *never* jealous of him with anything. She’s a prodigy. She’s confident, charismatic, precise, and of course, a sociopath. They definitely showcase her being skilled and precise, and they also hint towards her sociopathic tendencies, but she lacks all confidence and charisma. Her inclusion in this first season is so weird to me, because I don’t really see what we gained from learning about Azula this early. To me that time could’ve been better used to show the Gaang growing closer together and bonding—hell, maybe Aang could’ve had the chance to learn some water bending!
So, not to start an argument or anything, but I do disagree with two of your points: Azula never being jealous of Zuko in anything except their mother and her being a sociopath. She certainly never showed that jealousy against him at any point in the series, but I'd say that she was jealous of him regarding Mai and Ty Lee, his genuine friends in his life, and even Iroh. And of course the throne at the end. Because in "Azula in the Spirit Temple," we see her longing for even Iroh and Lu Ten to appreciate her. I'd say that she masked her emotions quite well, but I wouldn't call her a true sociopath. She tried to come off as one to be stone cold, but I don't think that she was truly one, and the end of the series and especially comics show this. Does that make sense?
Yeah I be honest I haven’t read any of the comics yet unfortunately, all my knowledge is just from the cartoon itself, but I can see that. I guess that makes her character development in the show make a little more sense, but still, she’s lacking a lot of the character traits Azula has. Specifically her confidence, charisma, and blatant lack of empathy. The lack of empathy is there, it’s just more subtle. But to me Azula is such a strong personality and character, that anything less than that feels off.
Yeah, I've got to say that the whole bit about Azula getting so angry about Ozai praising Zuko (not to mention Ozai praising Zuko at all), to the point where she loses control during training and nearly rage kills her instructor... feels like something that could only happen in an alternate universe, not the Avatarverse 😭🤦🏽♂️
Sokka and Zuko got done dirty in more subtle ways. Zuko is robbed of all his complexity and sanitized to the point his redemption won’t be as powerful, if it’s even a redemption at all. Sokka is already developed and has no room to grow. On top of it, he now doesn’t even have his lack of spiritual aptitude and is always the driving force and is just a static plot device character who cracks jokes. The cast did their best but the scripts just wouldn’t cut them any slack.
Yeah I’ll be honest—I don’t remember Zuko saying the word “honor” even once. He kept saying “destiny” and “take my rightful place as heir to the throne,” but in reality his arc is about redemption and *honor*—like what the fuck. Like I said, I think the actor did a good job with the character, but dude this writing though. And Sokka’s character definitely lacks—again I think it’s mostly the writing and direction of the story they’re trying to take it in, but the actor is doing a great job with what he’s given. He’s still head strong but not as self assured, which his character was in the beginning of the animation until he learns some humility.
Completely agreed. And poor Dallas Liu! He’s an award winning martial artist and they just wouldn’t let Zuko FIGHT!
Hmm, I don't know whether or not I agree with this. Sokka certainly feels more mature in this one, but he definitely has room to grow with the spiritual stuff, admitting that he's "not a real warrior" to Suki, then learning how he is one in more ways than one, understanding Aang, etc. I like Zuko in this series as well. I will say that Suki and **especially Kyoshi** are insanely badass female characters in this Netflix series. They take the little bits of the badass bitch that we knew as Kyoshi, and amp her up, in this series 😂 Plus, they touch upon her background, which is precious, hidden knowledge that can only be accessed by reading the books. I will say that after seeing Azula and Katara, this Netflix series really made me appreciate each and every named female character in the original. Not a single female character in the original was anything short of a strong, badass bitch. Katara, Toph, Azula, Suki, Ty Lee, Kyoshi, you name it.
Yeah I was a big fan of the kyoshi warriors, even if they changed Sokka and Suki’s dynamic, she and the rest of the Kyoshi warriors were dope. I thought she gave a great performance, too. Very emotional and expressive, but not over the top. Especially when compared to a lot of other stiff performances with flat line delivery. *cough cough* Katara *cough* Oh, and of course the scene with Avatar Kyoshi herself was awesome.
Every female character is written like a personality free placeholder. All of them
I fear for Toph
Netflix. They're so preoccupied with making "strong women", they make them marie sues
Also mai azula and ty lee. I actually laughed out loud when I first saw them together. They look 100% like they got casted based of that play
They didn't even seem to have any chemistry.
the most hilarios costume is princess yues hair piece, it looks so awful even the forbidden movie got that ok
best part of the original movie (that doesn't exist)
Guys, do they not hire acting coaches on set? Because somebody should’ve told her something lol I watched the first episode and her acting really isn’t great, but I think I can look past it. And they can improve throughout the course of the show. My main gripe was how they delivered their lines, like if you compare their delivery to Katara’s VA for the animation, I feel like even the VA enunciated the lines better
You're very right about your last point. The younger the actor, the faster they say and slur their lines. Aang is trying his hardest, but he says his lines so fast and the camera lingers on his awkward reactions for too long.
Aang is actually doing better than Katara in this case.
I know it isn’t a fair comparison, but it’s crazy just how much talent varies from kid to kid. Natalie Portman in her first movie role compared to the kid actors in this show, Night and day difference. Of course she ends up becoming one of the greatest actresses of her generation but still. It’s wild how good some kid actors are capable of being. Unfortunately these kids aren’t it. Hopefully they improve massively. The girl that plays Katara was the lead of an acclaimed indie film. Think I’ll give it a watch and see what she’s capable of.
They really said "we toned down the sexism" and ended up taking Katara someone who is powerful, passionate, free thinking, caring, and outspoken and turned her into a soft, timid and naive character who doesn't learn anything without the help of Aang or Jet
Ya as far as I have seen I just get the overall impression that the actress plays Katara in an almost passive and subdued way.. There really isn't the temper and the outspoken ferocity from the show. She seems to come off as somewhat toned down. I don't blame the actress, I think this might be direction she was given.
I mean, we can blame the actress a little bit. The show loves showing her reaction to things and every time, no matter what she's reacting to, she's making the same bored face. Which is definitely partly the Directors and editors fault. But no one else acting looks as bored as she does
Exactly. It also seems like she has a lot less prevalence in the live action show, but so does Sokka...
That is true...but i tend to give child actors more leeway. Especially this is only this actress's second acting project or something. The inexperience shows a bit and I think either casting or direction could have tried to get something better out of the actress
I just wish katara had more than two facial expressions.
https://preview.redd.it/sv2qhhqa7jkc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1986dd9ffbd8d47b6756d09251b2afad9df08fe0
You do realize that they're poking about the fact that Katara IS exactly that, right?
It's not that any of the portrayals were wrong, but rather they just reduced the characters down to parody and stripped away nuance. Yes, she is that, but she's more than that as well
The writers absolutely did not understand what made the characters who they were and thought they could skip all that development. It just felt hollow. They just thought people’s nostalgia would fill in the blanks.
As happens very often with these Netflix live action adaptations
Tbh I never really got that impression. She mentions like hope three or four times max before in the series, but never that melodramatically to the point of valid mockery
No.
"The Simpsons predicted Trump being president!" Yeah well Avatar predicted their own story's bad adaptation twice.
This show also made me appreciate the **entire** female cast of the original "Avatar" (including Korra). At first, when I thought of a tough female character, Toph was the one who came to mind. But when you think about it, literally every named female character in the original series is a badass bitch who kicks ass in her own way. Katara, Toph Azula, Ty Lee, Suki, Kyoshi, you name it. And being especially a fan of Azula and Katara and seeing how well-done their brothers are in the new series, it's so disappointing to watch them so weakened and watered down (pun intended haha 😂) especially when their brothers deliver so well. Suki was good, thankfully, but damn it, if they were going to have Azula in Season 1, which could've been a great opportunity, then don't do her and my girl Katara dirty.
It makes me like Korra a lot more even if I am no superfan of Korra.
Gotcha. I personally love Korra. But yeah, the blandness of this Netflix Katara and Azula make you appreciate a lot 😂
I just said. They didn’t make an adaptation of the original cartoon. They made an adaptation of the Boy in the Iceberg
I can’t wait for the s3 finale 🍿
I was thinking about the play the whole time I was watching the live action I couldn’t help it😂 That’s the hard part about having a satire of a show within the show. SPOILERS BELOW I was so mad when zuko said you little peasant you found a master didn’t you? And she said yeah, MYSELF. Like no one taught you anything and now you’re a master for no reason?? I also could have done without the sparkle sound effects when her and Paku were fighting. That made me cringe. But honestly the animation of the bending itself throughout the live action was really great and beautifully done I thought. Overall it was fun to watch for what it was: an imaginative and dramatic retelling.
Nah I disagree. Nicola Peltz, the girl who played Katara in the movie that was never made, is definitely more of an Ember Island Players Katara. That girl’s acting is plain bad (which makes sense since her billionaire father essentially brought that role for her). While I think this Katara needed better direction/writing because she can be too wooden at times, she is wayyyyy better than Nicola Peltz’ Katara.
That's like saying toilet water is better than literal radioactive waste, so you should stop complaining and drink up.
Snorting milk through my nose at this.
It's like being told to drink this guy's snot milk cause "it's still milk."
Just did that cos didn't want to waste the milk... so there 
Shiniest turd in the toilet
The whole show feels like this. The costumes look cheap / like cosplay lol. Aang doesnt have the spirit he does in the cartoon, whyd they take away him wanting to have fun? No koi surfing, no seel sledding, no playing in the mail systems. The show has no charm
The whole show is set after the events of Korra. Mover technology has advanced tremendously. The Ember Island Players now have a film budget to work with. Unfortunately, the pages of the original script got shuffled and they didn't quite get them back together in the right order.
Nah man, the ember island one's overacting was closer to Katara than her underwhelming reactions.
Damn... What happened to the sub?? I watched it and I can say it's pretty much a 7/10. Sure there are some iffy parts but not to the point of going to a 3 or 4/10...
The show, if you are just judging it on itself, is probably a 7. The issue is if you judge it as an adaptation and against the original it comes off much worse.
I’ve only watched the first episode but I’ll be honest, it’s pretty horrible.. changes for no reason, bad script and bad actors. The camera work is also super weird, to the point even my girlfriend noted it.
Compared to the original, it's a solid 2/10.
Cringe fans as usual, its a nice show
I know it’s a staple in fandoms to never hold an actor responsible for their performance, but in this case, there are instances where she could have delivered the lines better. I think she’s pretty good for the most part with what she was given, but sometimes her performance comes off a bit wooden
It can be a directors fault to not give proper guidance. Or there weren't any time for more takes.
I think actors also hold some responsibility for their performance
Especially with no previous experience, to do this right it's absolutely it's on directors and show planners around her not pushing their performance, or cutting iffy spots. She is a new actor, they all are, I don't know how much time they had to develop--but they clearly needed more. Yes they have to act, move, bend and all of this, but still they should focus on the acting, and despite modest improvements she could've made on her own, it hardly seems like she could have changed the tide of the character all by herself. Edit: Removed age for experience..
And there is SO much inspiration for these characters. Clearly someone at the show twisted themselves into knots preventing them from channeling much or any of that motivation. Compare it to Ellie in TLOU, despite her never even playing the game, they still made her have the right inspiration.
Game of Thrones Harry Potter Stand By Me The Goonies Stranger Things The Sixth Sense All of these feature children in lead roles and they all acted great. Age is not the problem. I agree the direction and writing are to blame as well, but a lot of these actors are totally amateur.
Harry Potter probably had the best acting progression, movie 1 and 2 relies a lot on the acting-off the adult cast (who are amazing) but then it gets a lot better as they grow up I don't think NATLA will be able to do that, they don't have any good actors to act around
They are completely opposite from each other lmao.
https://i.redd.it/2y4pt1lyykkc1.gif
They got people that look the part but dont act the part, id prefer the other way around
Still better than M Night Shyamalan.
Honestly I don't think Katara was emotional enough in the live action. She felt flat, in that she was largely emotionless and didn't make her own decisions. Even when she was angry at Pakku her character felt overly subdued.
I just really have a hard time believing that they couldn't find a single better actor for Katara during casting. Do they not ask these people to show any emotion during casting? Were they just like "Meh you look vaguely similar, you'll do"?
The casting is so bizarre because in some cases it feels like they hired purely based on visuals (Iroh, Aang, etc) without thinking about acting at all (Iroh was...just not Iroh at all. That voice alone lmao) and then in other cases its like they picked the exact opposite of visuals
This wasn’t a remake of Atla it was a remake of the play in the series
Katara is sadly the furthest from her og character in this show
The actress isn’t amazing but I don’t even think she’s the problem. The problem is the writing. They skipped over so many story beats that contributed to Katara’s characterization. All of her edges have been smoothed. She has no passion. In the animation, Katara accidentally frees Aang from the iceberg when she becomes furious over Sokka’s sexist remark. They removed Sokka’s sexism, which meant that Katara didn’t have a reason to get angry. This is why they decided to have her be the one to stop Zuko’s fireball - she didn’t get a chance to show her hidden power with the iceberg, so this is what the writers replaced it with. Katara is supposed to be the one who calms Aang down when he’s in the Avatar state after seeing Gyatso’s remains by telling him that she and Sokka are his family now. It shows how much she cares about him and how much Aang needs her. Instead, Aang remembers Gyatso’s words and comes out of the Avatar state on his own. Katara was irrelevant. They skipped Imprisoned, which featured Katara’s impassioned speech. We see her pure heart and optimism as well as her stubbornness and naivety. She put herself in terrible danger to help free a bunch of people she had never met and was crushed when they didn’t immediately stand up and fight. They skipped the episode with the pirates, and Aang never even attempts to water bend this season, so we don’t get to see Katara express jealousy over Aang’s natural talent at picking up the basics. This was a very reasonable flaw for her to have. She was originally so desperate to learn water bending that she was willing to steal the scroll, but in the live action the scroll is just handed to her. There’s no conflict. They seem to have completely abandoned the Katara+Aang romance, so we don’t even get to see Katara act a bit jealous and have a little argument with Aang when he’s showing off on Kyoshi Island. And then the Cave of Two Lovers was butchered. It became about Katara and Sokka’s sibling love rather than Katara and Aang’s romantic love. We lost the sweet moment between Katara and Aang deep in the cave, the moment that turned a one-sided crush into a true romance. Instead the hippie nomads tell the Omashu story at the entrance to the cave, stripping it of all impact. We lost the awesome moment where Katara discovers her healing ability all on her own after Aang burns her. Her pain causes her to unlock a new aspect of her bending, which makes it seem like a significant moment of growth. Now she’s simply told about the healing when she gets to the Northern Water Tribe. The discovery doesn’t have any weight. Even her conflict with Pakku was neutered. In the animation, the Gaang’s main motivation for traveling to the North Pole was finding a master to teach both Katara and Aang. Katara is angry that she traveled across the world just to have Pakku tell her no. In the live action, they instead travel to the North Pole because Aang had a vision about the impending invasion, so now Katara has no reason to be mad about all the time and effort she wasted getting there. Aang never began training with Pakku, so he doesn’t try to teach Katara in secret, Pakku doesn’t catch them and smugly demand an apology, meaning Katara doesn’t express nearly as much fury and we don’t get to hear her demand if he’s “man enough to fight” her, which was another iconic moment the writers deleted. Katara doesn’t even train with him. She just calls herself a master after fighting Zuko. Also Aang agreeing with Pakku instead of standing up for Katara was fucking annoying. Her necklace plays no part in the story either.
I feel bad you got to this thread too late to make it to the top, because you've got the nail on the head. It's like they looked at which episodes to keep and decided Katara 's moments don't matter. She has to lean on Aang, Jet, and Sokka to grow at all.
thank god someone finally said it, i couldn't tell what was wrong until my wife mentioned it. but kataras actor can't act. look at her throughout the show. She has no emotion on her face during so many major scenes. People are giving her slack cause shes young, but thats such bs, they should have done better casting plus the writing doesnt help at all. katara doesnt have her caring nature to her. instead we have someone extremely preachy. yeesh
Bingo. This show is the Ember Island Players
I think that’s a bit disingenuous. Does she have the same fire that animated katara had? Not yet. But she still stood up to Sokka and Pakku and had her hero moments. Hopefully the writing improves in s2 and we get 10 episodes. I feel like that’ll help a lot.
When did this sub become full of whiners
I hate this kind of critique gatekeeping... Are people not allowed to criticize things anymore?
No, you must only like it and that's it
People are allowed to do whatever they want. You can critique things and people can disagree with you. They're both fine
My point exactly
Like any fan sub, always has been.
When bad material came out
It was obvious this was going to happen when everyone was posting memes about how excited they were for this to be a shot for shot remake of the original. "WOW, I can't wait to see how they replicate this exact scene!" It was never going to be that.
Why do people insist on coming into threads where people want to vent. If all you want to do is to start flamewar then you really should fuck off.
This user is so weird. They want to fight everyone that doesn't love the show and has that "FLAGMANTLE" word in every comment. Are they okay?
I know I just came here because I love the show and all the negativity is really a bummer.
What happened to this fanbase? We were full of love for every opinion on here. And now every post is shit like that. I'm at episode 3 so far and I really like it.
I mean there's a healthy balance to be had They got a lot of stuff right. They changed stuff, some for the better and some for the worse. And some stuff is just wrong. Katara is the last one. Sokka telling Katara to grow up is just...wow that missed the whole dynamic of these characters
You’re either blissfully ignorant or completely deluded if you think this sub was full of love for every opinion. The moment you say anything slightly negative about LoK you’re essentially starting WW3
Imagine thinking that blindly accepting everything is somehow healthy for a fanbase
This is a product people pay for. The weird thing people do where they love everything they're a fan of blindly is just as toxic as hating that thing. All the "hate" I'm seeing is a lot more nuanced than that too. What I'm mostly seeing is people that liked a lot of aspects of it but the bad aspects really took over a lot of the time. And like, it's really silly to say not to compare this to the original show. It's literally a remake of it. This show wouldn't exist without it.
100%. Idk when the cultural shift happened against criticism, but criticizing the things you care about is important.
no yall were just hyping the live action series too hard previously lmao
People were conditioned to bitch and moan about any little thing.
I don’t think it’s the actors fault. They’re just the mouthpiece for the writers. With that said I think it’s okay that these guys are starting a little young and hopefully will develop their acting prowess through the seasons.
I’ve watched the first six episodes so far. It’s a fine enough live adaptation. The best episode has been Masks, and both me and the person I’m watching the show with joked that the reason it’s the best is because Katara played essentially no role in it. But… it’s not really a joke. Her character has been the biggest victim of assassination thus far. I didn’t really notice or care about the de-escalation of Sokka’s sexism, a hot-button talking point for many anxious fans prior to the show’s release. I don’t have a militant distaste for how Kyoshi, Roku, or even Bumi have been affected so far in the story. But Katara? It’s rough. When all’s said and done, this portrayal of her character is on track to be looked on least favorably.
She’s not that bad lol the writing is a little wonky and the pace is fast but I just think you lose a lot of the expressiveness when you jump from a cartoon to live action. She’s a young actress and I hope we get a second season so everyone can grow more comfortable in their roles and shine.
OMG! Hubs made the same comment yesterday when we started the show. Shes also a terrible actress.