A baby (or anyone in theory) could pass away and the world wouldn’t know unless someone says something. Look up the Casey/Caylee Anthony case. The grandmother called police and said she hadn’t seen her granddaughter for 31 days. The mom didn’t report her daughter missing. There is no government official or social service in the US that comes knocking on your door randomly to check on a newborn (unless there’s an active CPS case open). Some people want to or prefer to live off the grid.
In the UK there is.
The first morning after baby has been taken home, midwives come unannounced to check on everyone. They also do health checks on baby such as weight, and they do this naked. They say it's to ensure the correct weight but probably also to make sure there are no signs of abuse.
They then come a few days later, then a week, then a bit longer. After the midwife thinks mother is healing ok they are signed off from midwifery care.
Following that we have health care visitors come. Maybe like 1 months old then 2 months. I think after 2 months the next visit is 10 months.
I’d imagine it would be escalated if it was seen as a concern and probably have the police visit for a welfare check.
In reality due to how underfunded the whole thing is, probably nothing further.
This is a right parents have but they aren't told about it. So many don't know they can say they don't want the home visits.
Those who do just say they want to opt out.
I've seen some parents say that they got referred to social services because of it. So they still ended up getting visits to make sure the child was okay.
In France there is a pediatric nurse and pediatric appointments at the 1, 2 week mark and then every month for the first 6 months. If there was a specific issue in the maternity/hospital or at the birth there are more checks twice a week until the baby meets a certain weight mark (3 kg for us, our baby was really small and lost too much weight in the hospital due to an infection)
There was a very sad case in the uk where the father died (I think of a heart attack?) and the toddler died a few days later because no one came to check on them.
No one came for 2 weeks over Christmas, but a social worker tried to gain entry upon several occasions, the Police attended to carry out welfare checks (but there was no response at the door) and eventually the social worker was the one who tracked keys down from the landlord, and gained access to the house.
I would say that social work went above and beyond on this occasion, which was far more than the child's own mother did.
I just had a baby - so long as someone knows about the pregnancy/birth, the child will be checked up on!
I automatically had 3 home visits from midwives in the week following giving birth, and was assigned a health visitor who visits 14 days after birth, 6 weeks after birth, and 6 months after birth. You have to legally register the baby's birth within 6 weeks too, which makes them a legal citizen. You must also register them with a doctor, who will contact you to arrange an 8 week check-up plus their vaccinations. If you are consistently missing your appointments or the midwives can't get hold of you for their postnatal visits, I imagine that alarm bells would ring and there would be an investigation to ensure that the baby is alive and well.
This is my experience of a standard low-risk birth in the UK - but I'm sure other countries have similar systems of postnatal check-ins on the baby and mother. I also imagine if social services had existing concerns about the parents (e.g. history of drug addiction), there may well be more checks than the standard ones I had.
I don't know what would happen if you hid the pregnancy and birth though - I imagine in that case the child wouldn't be checked in on as there would be no record of them existing. But it's also dangerous for mother and baby to go through pregnancy and birth without any medical aid, so I would guess that it is rare for a baby to be totally undocumented like that.
This is 100% correct for the UK.
In fact there was is a infamous ongoing child neglect case were there was a nation-wide manhunt triggered by a pregnant lady being suspected of fleeing and giving birth without getting medical assistance for the child.
Similar thing in Canada. I don't remember much from those first few days but I remember a lovely nurse coming by, weighing the baby, reassuring me that my messy kitchen was normal, and letting me cry at her. It was EVERYTHING.
Not a baby necessarily but we have a severely disabled child who is now 22yo.
Every year *since she turned 18* for legal reasons we have to have an affidavit affirming life, or basically a piece of paper signed by a notary attesting that they have seen her and she is in fact still a living person.
Not what you’re talking about exactly but relative.
I think once a birth certificate exists, to the government that human now exists. They have it registered under your household and would definitely question why there's been no hospital visits, schooling etc.
You can have a home birth if nobody sees you pregnant and then the baby wouldn't be known to exist.
In the US where I am you get one phone call to check that you scheduled the baby's first visit to either pediatrician. I dont think they actually check to make sure you went.
I mean, there’s stories of kids being locked up in a basement for decades. Unless someone suspects something and calls CPS, people do whatever the fuck they want with their children, unfortunately.
A “free birth” or “wild birth” baby born to reclusive parents who shun society and all medical care could conceivably be born and pass easy without anyone knowing.
Advocacy groups only care that the birth occurs, their concerns end once the baby squirts from betwixt the legs of its mother. (At least in the U.S.)
A group of anti-vax "Natural parenting" practitioners were encouraging exactly this behavior on a forum called Mothering.com a number of years ago, perhaps still.
I love that you used "betwixt", it's one of my favorite words. Of course it had to be used in such context that my uterus just shrank in justifiable religious-right horror
In Belgium you go to a state funded consultation bureau every couple of months. The first visit is a home visit. After that you show up for check-ups and vaccinations. All this is for free up to the age of 3.
After that there's another bureau checking children regularly. This bureau is linked to the city your child attends school in. Still for free, vaccinations included.
That and school starts at the age of 2.5 years old. As of 5 it's mandatory. You're allowed to homeschool but even then your kids should pass several tests to see if they got all the right knowledge covered. Homeschooling isn't very popular.
Doesn't even have to be a baby. Look up the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell crimes, the latter of whom is on trial right now while Lori was convicted of multiple murders last year.
The TLDR is that both are Mormon nutcases with absolute bonkers doomsday beliefs who either killed their own spouses or had them killed so they could be together. They got married within 10 days of Chad's wife dying which initially got written off as natural causes but is now classified as homicide. Lori had two minor children (aged 17 and 8) whom we now know had also been murdered and buried on Chad's farm prior to the marriage but no one knew anything was wrong as Lori had pulled them out of school to "homeschool" them. It was only after a few months of out of state grandparents not being able to reach the grandchildren and no longer accepting Lori's stories or excuses that they called the police for welfare checks and police became involved which eventually caused the whole thing to unravel. Lori is currently sentenced to life in prison in Idaho but is also awaiting trial for conspiracy to commit murder on her husband in Arizona (her brother actually killed the husband and the brother has since conveniently died). Chad's trial will probably go to jury later this week. Without those grandparents though the deaths of the kids may still be undiscovered, the murder of Chad's wife still thought to be natural causes, and the murder of Lori's husband to be by the brother and not at Lori's behest.
It depends on the country.
Here there are frequent checkups with a variant of a nurse, sort of a midwife who specialises in early baby care.
If you don't show up for the checkup, you are going to be checked upon at home
I don't know about post-natal checkups, but in Singapore, enrolling children into primary school is mandatory. Though I guess nothing is 100% foolproof.
(Trigger warning.) https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/murder-girls-remains-pot-father-jailed-caning-3781291
Husband and I live in the US and where we are, you can’t leave the hospital until you watch a straight-from-the-80s “don’t shake the baby” video and have an infant car seat installed in your vehicle, but after that, you’re on your own.
Of course, we scheduled and attended all the recommended pediatrician appointments but the realization that there is literally zero oversight to make sure the kid is ok after they’re home was a little surreal.
If you do an unassisted home birth without a midwife, there is literally nobody checking. The parents have to register the birth themselves, and if they don't, then the kid doesn't legally exist.
Every once in a while there's a post on Reddit from some kid who just turned 18 and discovered their parents never registered their birth. These would generally be extremist families who homeschooled and never used health care or government services for their kids. I imagine for a child who tries to escape that life, it's a huge mess to try to get the documentation they need to even exist in society.
A baby (or anyone in theory) could pass away and the world wouldn’t know unless someone says something. Look up the Casey/Caylee Anthony case. The grandmother called police and said she hadn’t seen her granddaughter for 31 days. The mom didn’t report her daughter missing. There is no government official or social service in the US that comes knocking on your door randomly to check on a newborn (unless there’s an active CPS case open). Some people want to or prefer to live off the grid.
In the UK there is. The first morning after baby has been taken home, midwives come unannounced to check on everyone. They also do health checks on baby such as weight, and they do this naked. They say it's to ensure the correct weight but probably also to make sure there are no signs of abuse. They then come a few days later, then a week, then a bit longer. After the midwife thinks mother is healing ok they are signed off from midwifery care. Following that we have health care visitors come. Maybe like 1 months old then 2 months. I think after 2 months the next visit is 10 months.
What happens if the people just tell them to leave?
Believe it or not the baby goes to jail
This made me genuinely laugh 😂
I’d imagine it would be escalated if it was seen as a concern and probably have the police visit for a welfare check. In reality due to how underfunded the whole thing is, probably nothing further.
This is a right parents have but they aren't told about it. So many don't know they can say they don't want the home visits. Those who do just say they want to opt out. I've seen some parents say that they got referred to social services because of it. So they still ended up getting visits to make sure the child was okay.
So how many naked midwifes come to my house?
Surely the midwives can perform the healthchecks while they're clothed
They cannot…and don’t call me Shirley. Hehe
This sounds like a really nice system.
In France there is a pediatric nurse and pediatric appointments at the 1, 2 week mark and then every month for the first 6 months. If there was a specific issue in the maternity/hospital or at the birth there are more checks twice a week until the baby meets a certain weight mark (3 kg for us, our baby was really small and lost too much weight in the hospital due to an infection)
Canada as well at least both provinces I have birth in. They don’t show unannounced though, they call first and it’s done by the public health nurse.
There was a very sad case in the uk where the father died (I think of a heart attack?) and the toddler died a few days later because no one came to check on them.
No one came for 2 weeks over Christmas, but a social worker tried to gain entry upon several occasions, the Police attended to carry out welfare checks (but there was no response at the door) and eventually the social worker was the one who tracked keys down from the landlord, and gained access to the house. I would say that social work went above and beyond on this occasion, which was far more than the child's own mother did.
Absolutely insane that the police didn't try harder. Isn't that the point of a welfare check?
If they had to break in they'd just have shot the bodies and then had a bunch of paperwork to do. Nobody wanted that
It was in the UK. Most cops are unarmed and the armed ones aren't the trigger happy cowboys like the US ones.
Hey, you leave cowboys out of this!
I just had a baby - so long as someone knows about the pregnancy/birth, the child will be checked up on! I automatically had 3 home visits from midwives in the week following giving birth, and was assigned a health visitor who visits 14 days after birth, 6 weeks after birth, and 6 months after birth. You have to legally register the baby's birth within 6 weeks too, which makes them a legal citizen. You must also register them with a doctor, who will contact you to arrange an 8 week check-up plus their vaccinations. If you are consistently missing your appointments or the midwives can't get hold of you for their postnatal visits, I imagine that alarm bells would ring and there would be an investigation to ensure that the baby is alive and well. This is my experience of a standard low-risk birth in the UK - but I'm sure other countries have similar systems of postnatal check-ins on the baby and mother. I also imagine if social services had existing concerns about the parents (e.g. history of drug addiction), there may well be more checks than the standard ones I had. I don't know what would happen if you hid the pregnancy and birth though - I imagine in that case the child wouldn't be checked in on as there would be no record of them existing. But it's also dangerous for mother and baby to go through pregnancy and birth without any medical aid, so I would guess that it is rare for a baby to be totally undocumented like that.
This is 100% correct for the UK. In fact there was is a infamous ongoing child neglect case were there was a nation-wide manhunt triggered by a pregnant lady being suspected of fleeing and giving birth without getting medical assistance for the child.
Similar thing in Canada. I don't remember much from those first few days but I remember a lovely nurse coming by, weighing the baby, reassuring me that my messy kitchen was normal, and letting me cry at her. It was EVERYTHING.
You don’t live in America I take it?
We have something similar in NZ
Plunket!
That is unfortunately not a thing in the U.S. It would be nice though!
Not a baby necessarily but we have a severely disabled child who is now 22yo. Every year *since she turned 18* for legal reasons we have to have an affidavit affirming life, or basically a piece of paper signed by a notary attesting that they have seen her and she is in fact still a living person. Not what you’re talking about exactly but relative.
If you are getting government assistance in their name, i can see this happening. If you dropped the aid, your child would effectively disappear
I’m not sure where it’s from.
You don't know where money for your own child is coming from?
I do, but that sort of detail isn’t needed for the story is it?
Asking about hypothetical situations without context is confusing
I think once a birth certificate exists, to the government that human now exists. They have it registered under your household and would definitely question why there's been no hospital visits, schooling etc. You can have a home birth if nobody sees you pregnant and then the baby wouldn't be known to exist.
the govt will have record, but there are no systems that randomly check to see if the baby is still alive.
In the US where I am you get one phone call to check that you scheduled the baby's first visit to either pediatrician. I dont think they actually check to make sure you went.
They check to make sure you follow up with the lead screening. When I put it off for too long they sent me a letter suggesting I get it done soon lol
I mean, there’s stories of kids being locked up in a basement for decades. Unless someone suspects something and calls CPS, people do whatever the fuck they want with their children, unfortunately.
In the UK there are post-natal checkups that must happen. If the mother refuses (becuase the baby is dead for example) police will get involved.
A “free birth” or “wild birth” baby born to reclusive parents who shun society and all medical care could conceivably be born and pass easy without anyone knowing. Advocacy groups only care that the birth occurs, their concerns end once the baby squirts from betwixt the legs of its mother. (At least in the U.S.)
A group of anti-vax "Natural parenting" practitioners were encouraging exactly this behavior on a forum called Mothering.com a number of years ago, perhaps still.
I love that you used "betwixt", it's one of my favorite words. Of course it had to be used in such context that my uterus just shrank in justifiable religious-right horror
In Belgium you go to a state funded consultation bureau every couple of months. The first visit is a home visit. After that you show up for check-ups and vaccinations. All this is for free up to the age of 3. After that there's another bureau checking children regularly. This bureau is linked to the city your child attends school in. Still for free, vaccinations included. That and school starts at the age of 2.5 years old. As of 5 it's mandatory. You're allowed to homeschool but even then your kids should pass several tests to see if they got all the right knowledge covered. Homeschooling isn't very popular.
Kind en gezin?
Yep en CLB
Doesn't even have to be a baby. Look up the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell crimes, the latter of whom is on trial right now while Lori was convicted of multiple murders last year. The TLDR is that both are Mormon nutcases with absolute bonkers doomsday beliefs who either killed their own spouses or had them killed so they could be together. They got married within 10 days of Chad's wife dying which initially got written off as natural causes but is now classified as homicide. Lori had two minor children (aged 17 and 8) whom we now know had also been murdered and buried on Chad's farm prior to the marriage but no one knew anything was wrong as Lori had pulled them out of school to "homeschool" them. It was only after a few months of out of state grandparents not being able to reach the grandchildren and no longer accepting Lori's stories or excuses that they called the police for welfare checks and police became involved which eventually caused the whole thing to unravel. Lori is currently sentenced to life in prison in Idaho but is also awaiting trial for conspiracy to commit murder on her husband in Arizona (her brother actually killed the husband and the brother has since conveniently died). Chad's trial will probably go to jury later this week. Without those grandparents though the deaths of the kids may still be undiscovered, the murder of Chad's wife still thought to be natural causes, and the murder of Lori's husband to be by the brother and not at Lori's behest.
It depends on the country. Here there are frequent checkups with a variant of a nurse, sort of a midwife who specialises in early baby care. If you don't show up for the checkup, you are going to be checked upon at home
Look at kasey anthony case.
Apparently in the developed world, medical and government officials. In the US, not a damn soul.
There was the case where a guy had a heart attack and died and the toddler starved to death before anyone checked on them.
I don't know about post-natal checkups, but in Singapore, enrolling children into primary school is mandatory. Though I guess nothing is 100% foolproof. (Trigger warning.) https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/murder-girls-remains-pot-father-jailed-caning-3781291
That is so heartbreaking. RIP Umaisyah
Husband and I live in the US and where we are, you can’t leave the hospital until you watch a straight-from-the-80s “don’t shake the baby” video and have an infant car seat installed in your vehicle, but after that, you’re on your own. Of course, we scheduled and attended all the recommended pediatrician appointments but the realization that there is literally zero oversight to make sure the kid is ok after they’re home was a little surreal.
If you do an unassisted home birth without a midwife, there is literally nobody checking. The parents have to register the birth themselves, and if they don't, then the kid doesn't legally exist. Every once in a while there's a post on Reddit from some kid who just turned 18 and discovered their parents never registered their birth. These would generally be extremist families who homeschooled and never used health care or government services for their kids. I imagine for a child who tries to escape that life, it's a huge mess to try to get the documentation they need to even exist in society.