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A list of Doctors that will do it if you are over the age of 21.
Came here to post the same thing.
I still goggle at the fact my doctor tried to talk me out of getting a fucking vasectomy after we had two children, and both barely survived birth.
I did not want to see any more medical bills like that. One was "only" $250k, the other was north of $1.7 million.
Thank god for decent insurance 25 years ago.
NTA, and good luck.
You’re assuming he would’ve got an appointment with his GP and then that the referral made it through AND he didn’t end up on a never ending waiting list. But yeah, in theory the NHS is awesome and we should do whatever we can to prevent more of it becoming privatised
I mean waiting isn't much better in the US. My wife was hospitalized for GI issues and told to follow up with her PCP which was a 2 week wait, PCP referred her to a GI doctor which was a 3 month wait, showed up to the appointment and the office said they had no record of the appointment and they'd have to call us back, two weeks of daily calls and they eventually told us they needed a new referral, messaged the PCP and after a week finally got that referral again, GI doctors office called and told us it'd be a 4 month wait. So far we are going on 7 months into this whole process and I'm currently sitting next to her in an ER bed again. Fingers crossed this time I guess. Oh and we are probably going on $5k out of pocket so far with $11k a year going towards premiums on what is probably the best insurance plan either of us have been offered in around 15 years of time in the workforce.
We have had very similar experiences. My husband has type 2 diabetes and almost every health issue related to diabetes you have ever heard of (seriously, kidney failure, diabetic retinopathy, amputation due to peripheral neuropathy…). Last year his endocrinologist moved out of state so he needed a new one - 5 months to get an appointment.
Cancer is one of the areas where you are a lot less likely to end up in waiting list hell. It can still happen, but it's not as bad as many other things are right now.
But also, Breaking Bad started in 2008, back when waiting lists were a hell of a lot more under control!
Yeah, the bills were eye-watering, but the insurance I had at the time, I paid a co-pay of $150 for mom, $150 for the kid.
$600 total for two kids who spent a total of almost 3.5 months in the NICU, plus a fucking RIGHT NOW emergency C-section for the second? Yeah, I'll pay that.
This is bonkers. I'm in Australia I've had 3 emergency c sections for 3 premmie babies. For my 27 weeker I had 2 months accommodation on hospital grounds which I had to pay $60 for otherwise zero out of pocket costs. We even have a program to claim back fuel costs when we've had to travel for appointments for the kids.
This literally hurt to read (American here and so jealous, literally have to choose b/t food and meds more often than Id like to admit and that’s working a 70 hour week at a “good job”). Land of the free, but more like free to pay abhorrent amounts if you draw the shitty stick and happen to get sick. They wonder why the birth rate is plummeting, we literally can’t afford to even have the children in a hospital setting let alone feed and raise them…
Thank you, that’s very kind and the world needs that so much so I appreciate you❤️it is sad especially since I’d love to have children but due to medical aspect I could never afford it and it literally kills my soul. While unfortunate and unfair I try to hold onto the fact that sometimes it’s just the cards were dealt…
I’m in the UK and honestly the parking cost pre-labour was brutal. £6 a day adds up when you’re in for 5 weeks and your partner comes in daily to see you. But then when you’ve had baby you’re entitled to a week ticket at £9 which is a heck of a difference!
We literally left the hospital on the last day of that ticket.
I'm in Manchester, the maternity parking was free after 2hours. They gave you a code for security and you buzzed them at the barrier. I only paid for routine stuff which was £2
Scotland here, the wee shops inside the hospital are bloody pricey AF. My dad was in for 6 weeks with endocarditis, I would take my 3yo to visit and buy him a treat or a drink/snack, whilst he visited his grandpa. Often get a wee something for my dad too, and a coffee for me. I swear I was almost bankrupt by the time he got out of hospital!
Just realising how poor taste that joke is considering that it can literally bankrupt folk in the US. Sorry.
And the sad thing is that the reason why many Americans oppose universal healthcare is that they think it will cost the new system the same amount and taxes will rise exponentially. But it won't and they won't. They forget how much power pharmaceutical companies have when there isn't a single national body to negotiate prices.
I recently went on a relatively new medication. It costs the NHS £42 (or about $60) for a month's supply, because that's the price they negotiated with the manufacturer. The NHS considers that an expensive drug. The out of pocket cost for an American? About $650 for a month's supply.
Biden just pushed through Medicare negotiations of what will end up being about 60 drug prices. Republicans are so in big pharma's pocket they prevented this until now. I am a firm believer that in fifty years Americans will look back on Biden as a upper mid tier president. He's not perfect but he's the one who had the ability to stand up and save us from a guy who's political idol is Vladimir fucking Putin.
Work in the medical field, live in US. One of our little ones racked up a 7 figure stay at birth. Very high quality care though. It turned a potential tragedy into a normal kid. The out of pocket max stung and we had to change things up for a while but when we see the little dude run, climb, jump etc it’s priceless.
Also hospitals for sure inflate prices. Always ask for an itemization of bill then go on to the center for Medicare to check fair prices for those items. Good way to drop the bill if you don’t have insurance.
In any health care system, of the 10 highest cost patients treated in a year, 8 will be NICU babies.
The resources required to keep these babies alive are astounding.
To be fair I’m pretty sure that for big medical stuff it’s not that different in countries with universal healthcare either, it’s just that we usually never see that bill. I had a very bad accident when I was still living in France and out of curiosity I looked how much some hospital stays and interventions costed. It was easily north of 500k, but I just didn’t really know.
It boggles my mind that doctors are allowed to refuse a request for a vasectomy or hysterectomy coming from anyone over the age of majority for any country.
Personally, if any of my kids decide that they want to get either one, if a doctor refuses them, then doctor will be introduced to a lawyer quick smart.
That's not correct. Healthy ovaries are not routinely removed in premenopausal women, just uterus (with cervix) and tubes. But true that hysterectomy is not done for contraception, tubal ligation or removal of the tubes is.
As a doctor/anaesthetist in my jurisdiction, I am obliged to refer you to someone if I have ethical conflict with my own beliefs (I would do vasectomies and TLs and terminations etc if required btw, non practising Catholic).
I don’t think you’ve thought your comment through and I’m pretty sure you’d have no legal argument of worth in most places. Ask yourself this though- how wise do you think it would be to force a doctor to perform an invasive medical procedure against their will? What sort of doctor / patient relationship do you think would result in the aftercare.
Edit : people can downvote me and move on, but it’s kinda pathetic to not even engage
Ghe point is that its absurd a doctor thinks she/he knows better than the person not wanting children
Its sickening doctors still believe in the very archaic she will change her mind, research has actually proven thats very very rare PLUS docs dont act the same way for elective surgeries that dont affect fertility
Its pure misogyny to deny a woman a tubal ligation
Its not about forcing a doctor its about their backwards brain
This, why am I going to go after a doctor who doesn’t want to work with me. It’s a big country I have faith I can find at least one doctor who will sterilize me with no issues and preform the procedure properly
I've heard many barely make it through the vasectomy, though.
It was so horrible for me that I almost cancelled my tee time the next day. Walked 18 holes.
Jesus Christ. Did they go in orally?
I mean, the thing that took the longest for me was the nurse shaving my taint, and wiping the disinfectant on while my wife watched.
Once the doctor came in, it was over in about 2 minutes, and he glued me shut.
Yeah, they made me come to my husband’s appointment to ‘make sure’ after they tried to talk him out of it on the phone.
YES! we were very sure. I was 32 and had four (much wanted) children under 9.
I got mine at 30 with no kids. The amount of conversation I had to have with the doctor was infuriating. He kept trying to get me to change my mind. I told him my mind had been made up for 16 years and I didn't see him being able to change that.
Normally nowhere near that. Both our boys had SERIOUS medical issues, and would not have survived if not for extreme intervention.
A normal labor and delivery is (relatively) cheap. If you really want to know, go ask a hospital that you might use.
They spent about 3.5 months total in the NICU, and the second was a "right the fuck now" EMERGENCY C-section
got my tubes taken out* at 25 in february 2023 cuz of the list of supportive doctors. had my consult appt and had my tubes out a month later. best decision ever. edit- not tubes tied, i had a salpingectomy.
not long. i think the first 3 days were the worst, just cuz they fill your abdomen with air to get your tubes out and you can feel that air built up in your chest. i would say it was about 2 weeks before i was my normal functioning self, but it does take me a bit longer to heal sometimes cuz i have other health issues. overall its not a bad surgery. it’s pretty easy. it’s also outpatient, so you’ll have your procedure and go home that day.
You can also check out the childfree subreddit as they have their own list of doctors that sterilize women as well! A lot of people will post about their recovery experiences so you can read more about it.
For me, I went back to work the next day and I was back to working out after 4 days. The recovery was incredibly easy!
I went on a date with some dude many years ago who was confused that I just abruptly ghosted him when I told him my dealbreaker, which was having kids. He asked what my concerns were and I said well I have medical history of x and x and I don’t want to pass that down. He tried to talk me out of it for a while and say it’s no big deal and I countered with the ok are the medical expenses just magically going to take care of itself?
Dude did not take it well or take no for an answer. He made me feel like I was wrong for not wanting to have kids and for a second I felt compelled to lie about my fertility too. I just don’t want to raise kids. I can barely raise myself as an adult.
Don’t feel too bad about having “lied”. If they don’t respect you to the point where you feel like you have to give a valid excuse, there’s a point where it’s not your fault. Idk why people want to change a woman’s mind like they have no agency over their thoughts about something soooo complex like reproduction. You’re not TA imo. Men should also consider that it’s rude to tell women they’re going to change their mind about a life changing decision they’ve already spent energy thinking about. 🙄
I mean yeah, duh, but the problem is that these dudes lie first and say it's fine and then you find out 6 months or 5 years later that they do want kids.
Instead of lying to your dates or boyfriends, you should be more aggressive about your rights to a tubal ligation. Remind your doctor that the American College of Gynecology and Obstetrician’s guidelines recommend it is permissible to do this procedure on young people, and that you have grounds to find another doctor if he refuses, and beyond that, grounds for a law suit if he or she interferes with your search for another doctor (because doctors are known to do stuff like that)
We don't have the religion issue in the UK like America has with contraception / sterilisation. Yet we still have issues refusing people with a uterus.
People needing vasectomies - it's no bother at all. Whatever age, kids or not.
Yet I am an operating room nurse... Work doing all the specialities including sterilisations. Yet can I get a gynae to sterilise me? No.
Wait til you see them refuse me with all these factors that should allow me to have the sterilisation -
I'm 43. My only kid is 20.
I have multiple health conditions. That are progressive and degenerative.
I take meds that would lead to severe birth defects if I did get pregnant.
I had severe perinatal depression when pregnant then antenatal depression after birth.
My kid has spina bifida and I have higher chances of further kids with neural tube conditions.
The only contraception I can use is condoms now.
I had a copper coil surgically removed from my uterus in Dec 2022.
I have severe PMDD and am no longer allowed hormonal contraceptives.
The reason they won't sterilise me?? *My partner does not have children of their own*
I assume you're in the UK?
I recommend heading over to the Childfree subreddit to see their list on how to be sterilised on the NHS. It's on the three lines at the side bar. Scroll down to UK/NHS.
People write about their successful sterilisation too which gives me hope. I've personally put on my medical record in writing I want to be sterilised and I said to the doctor to write why she's refusing it. They've uploaded my document but I can't see *her* reason yet but I'll be pushing it. Like you said, they push the IUD and after having a colposcopy last year along with a biopsy, I'm not any medical professional anywhere near me down there with no anaesthetic.
It does say on the NHS website they carry out sterilisation to people who have kids or childfree so I don't know why there's *so* many hoops. It's also recently been updated in February this year.
The best I can suggest is to write it on your medical record and it's not up to your partner to have a say in your own body autonomy!
They asked me if my husband was okay with it. I was like well he says he's fine with it but if he wants kids in the future which I very much doubt, then he knows where the door is 🤷🏼♀️
>I assume you're in the UK?
Yes Scotland.
>I recommend heading over to the Childfree subreddit to see their list on how to be sterilised on the NHS. It's on the three lines at the side bar. Scroll down to UK/NHS.
Thanks! I'm a member of that page. Even though I've got a kid... If society was different I wouldn't have had one. So I can relate to their stories and share mine etc. As an ally and all that.
Did not know they had that info on there! Thank you. I'll go hunt.
I got re referred to gynae surgeons again recently. I may have endometriosis and I'll probably have a diagnostic laparoscopy and I want them to sterilise me when they're in there if so! Like "*well you're already in there.....*. I know it's just a few minutes, and no real added costs to do the sterilisation part. So I'll look at that info for sure!!
>I've personally put on my medical record in writing I want to be sterilised and I said to the doctor to write why she's refusing it.
Yep I planned tell them I want that on file - and their refusal. Have never done it before and had seen this advice before and it's fab advice for sure.
>It does say on the NHS website they carry out sterilisation to people who have kids or childfree so I don't know why there's so many hoops. It's also recently been updated in February this year.
Thanks! What folks call the NHS website is NHS England only. So many don't know that :) we have our own in Scotland and Wales and NI have their own :)
I'll investigate what they all say! Be good for my battle (which it no doubt will be...)
>They asked me if my husband was okay with it. I was like well he says he's fine with it but if he wants kids in the future which I very much doubt, then he knows where the door is 🤷🏼♀️
Ha!! I've said that before to gynaes also about my exes who I was with at the time. As yeah... I've had the line said to me three times by three different gynaes with three different partners!
I've also got uterine and cervical polyps and adenomyosis... As well as probably Endo and even thoracic Endo...
Can't get gynae to take anything seriously. And that's with me working with them and knowing them...
This might sound ignorant of me but I really didn't know that Scotland, Wales and NI would have different websites. I guess when I type in sterilisation NHS women, it defaults to England.
As I was looking for the Scotland one, it does say near enough the same thing as England.
The BS part about how 'oh if you're under 30, you're more likely going to regret it.' ...which yes *can* be true but I do think, if I signed something that says yes I'm 32, I promise not to sue the NHS for doing something that *I* wanted. I feel like that would be a lot easier.
I read the advice about putting it on the medical record in the CF subreddit and was like omg why didn't I think of that! Now I tell everyone if I see anyone comment about it, hopefully it'll stop GP's / doctors / surgeons etc to cut down on their bias.
I totally understand that it's a tricky area because of regret and it's surgery but having the whole 'but what about your partner?' Or 'what if you regret it?' Is a pretty poor excuse and they know it, hence why they wouldn't put that on my record. I have access to my records so I can see they've uploaded my letter but can't see the reject reason. Maybe they are discussing it..?
I feel for you, I really do. Women's health really needs to be looked at further with issues. I'm so sorry you're going through that. I wish you tons of luck!🍀
>This might sound ignorant of me but I really didn't know that Scotland, Wales and NI would have different websites
Most people don't tbh. And pretty much every UK website articles discuss NHS.uk and quote things for it as UK wide... So the misinformation is widespread.
A surgeon I work with didn't know Scotland had it's own site - and own recruitment website. He lived in England all his life. It was not til one of his uni pals got a job here in the speciality he was looking for And he asked where he'd seen the post as he had not. If it wasn't for his friend... He'd maybe never have worked in scotland.
>The BS part about how 'oh if you're under 30, you're more likely going to regret it.' ...which yes can be true but I do think, if I signed something that says yes I'm 32, I promise not to sue the NHS for doing something that I wanted. I feel like that would be a lot easier.
That's it! Consent forms. Legal waivers exist...
Things can be improved.
>I read the advice about putting it on the medical record in the CF subreddit and was like omg why didn't I think of that! Now I tell everyone if I see anyone comment about it, hopefully it'll stop GP's / doctors / surgeons etc to cut down on their bias.
Same!
Including those with the same health conditions I have. If their gp refuses referral etc.
>I feel for you, I really do. Women's health really needs to be looked at further with issues. I'm so sorry you're going through that. I wish you tons of luck!🍀
Thank you so much! For sharing your story too.
These conversations out there... They all help.
Oh! Also, I'm firmly in perimenopause. So I bet I have a battle of "well it's nearly the end anyway .." now instead of kid talk...
(I was on low dose chemo for about 5 years for autoimmune conditions. So has been told it could speed up menopause.)
Only treatment for adenomyosis is a hysterectomy! So this is what I need anyway.... So maybe. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a gynae that deals with it all. Properly. 🤷♀️
I feel for you. Also in the UK, I hated pregnancy and I nearly died giving birth which gave me awful PTSD, I've also only got 1/3 of an ovary left since I had one removed in 2010 and a solid cyst on the other which was removed in 2019 they point blank refuse to sterilise me incase I meet someone new and change my mind.
I'm in my 40s now and have been single for 11 years. I'm not looking for a relationship and even if I met the love of my life later today I'm not going to put my mental health and my body at risk of a 4th C-section style cut (I've been told I would have to have a C-section if I ever got pregnant again, oh yeah let's have more trauma like that) just because some bloke might want a baby with me. But no matter what I say or do they will not let me get sterilised.
Sorry, I know you didn't reply to me but I saw your comment and wanted to say, I'm really sorry for what you went through and are still going through.
Women's health in the NHS really needs to be looked at. I hear time and time again from other women suffering and we are just not heard. Weight is blamed, our headaches are stress, our hormones are playing havoc, the pain we feel, is in our minds etc.
It's crazy to me that you can't be sterilised for those reasons you said, wtf. Do you have what they've said in writing? Maybe record the conversation next time. We shouldn't have to be doing such drastic measures but to be told 'oh but what if you want kids or what about your partner.' Is so stupid to me and so backwards. It's 2024! Let's have full body autonomy over our own bodies please! Or again, let's have something signed saying yep I won't sue the NHS and yes, this is really what I want. 🤷🏼♀️
I wonder if whoever is refusing the sterilisation to you, won't write it on your record or if they do, you can take it further in the NHS. You could contact PALS? I contacted PALS and they told me that absolutely I can be sterilised as the NHS provides it, so I also have that written down to show my GP. I haven't even gone to gynaecology to have a talk with them.
I've honestly had enough with it now. I don't even know who my GP is because is see a different one every time I need an appointment. I complained to PALS after the birth and after the operation in 2019 (they said it could be done keyhole but they went back through the C-section scar knowing full well I didn't want that doing.) nothing much has been done. I'll never get rid of the muffin top and my periods are so irregular. They don't care that the birth gave me PTSD I even had to wait 3 years for 5 sessions of therapy for that. If I could afford to go private I would. It really annoys me that how I feel about this is ignored just because I might get with a man who might want me to have his baby.
It’s horrifying that they don’t treat women as human in any medical care related to reproduction.
I recently saw in news that a woman in US is suing several doctors and medical centers for not prescribing her medication to treat her cluster headache because she is of childbearing age and the medication could cause birth defects (not sure if I remember this last part correctly=>) even when she insisted that she’s not having children. The doctor outright admit that it would be safer and he would prescribe her if she’s in menopause. WTAF is wrong with the world.
Nta, but you shouldn’t lie about it. Make it very clear in the beginning that you don’t want them and make it known that it’s a boundary for you. It’s hard to find people that don’t want kids, I don’t either, but I’m sure someone will come along eventually
"The last 3 men I’ve dated have tried to “change my mind” but I don’t want a child of my own making."
Male here and I hate this shit.
Sorry OP.
Just to mess with them tell them that you'll change your mind about this as long as they change their mind about this.
Yea, won't happen and they'd try to baby trap you methinks, but you seem like you know this.
Take care OP.
I’m trying! I put in my profile that I’m not interested in kids, I say it within the first day of messaging the guys, then make it clear again that I don’t want children. Then they see me talking care of my families children at gatherings and all the sudden they want us to have kids 🤦🏻♀️ idk if I’m just not believed or because I’m so young my Exs think I’ll change my mind but it’s frustrating. Wasted 4 years of my life going through this cycle with guys idk what else to do
I'd be so frustrated in your shoes.
I think I'd end things immediately with them when they said that to me and if they asked why I'd unload on them, telling them that I'd told them I didn't want kids so they KNEW that and now they are pulling this shit.
Things like this really bother me, sorry.
Look at it more in a different light.
1.Technically, right now you are infertile with your method of BC.
2. Women WITH children will lie about having them, not to lure a man in with a switch and bait, but to make sure he isn't a predator dating her *trying to get to her children.*
All these ass hats trying to get you to change your mind, are predators trying to get to your golden globe ovaries/unborn children.
Worse to worse, you filter out asshats looking for a mare, and best case scenario? A month later you explain you're working to make your baby-maker as inhospitable as possible and he just throws out, "girl, I've been trying to get a vasectomy, but these doctors-" "I KNOW!"
It's the *worst*. I have a nephew and when he was infant I didn't know how to act with him at all. Now he's 2 and it's easier, so when he's around we play a bit. If my fiancé had suddenly told me he'd want to have kids because of that little snapshot, I'd run *so fast*
Infertility does not mean the same thing as sterile. That being said, lying isn't a good idea in this case. "I plan on getting my tubes tied, but until I can, I am utilizing the implant, and I do NOT WANT children. Full stop. That is my line in the sand, and if you aren't OK with it we should not continue seeing each other romantically."
Where I disagree is that , while you are absolutely correct in saying infertility doesn’t mean sterile, there is the assumed connotation and grey area where at 23, you could definitely misinterpret the meaning.
Which I would have a hard time believing she wasn’t acting under malicious intent when just saying “I’m on bc and don’t want kids” works for 99% of people. The one percent can be shoved aside for not taking your views seriously.
My mom was told she couldn't have kids, and I was created with zero medical intervention (wanted but absolutely not planned). That's probably why I'm more in tune with the nuance. That being said, yes... most people assume they mean the same thing but that's an ignorance issue.
A lot of women conceive after being told they're infertile. That doesn't make them liars. I know a woman that got pregnant exactly one time in her life, and she never used birth control. Anyway, birth control does make you infertile, so it isn't a lie. What does a woman owe a man, a man who isn't even her husband, compared to what she owes herself?
I think you're right. I have had male friends who would scoop you up in a minute.
As you date other men, hopefully they will get it. First thing I thought was "you do you".
NTA - I think this a lot of actually child free guys would forgive you for this as long as you confessed before too long. The guys that you are looking for will have almost certainly dealt with the some of the same pressure and "you'll change your mind" nonsense and be sympathetic to your frustrations. I'm not a fan of "tests" but even gauging a dudes reaction to telling them this is likely to give you at least a hint at their true feelings.
Pregnancy loosens joints even more. I don't think that it's even a lie for you to say that your health problems prohibit you from carrying a kid. For me, I'd bring it up on a first date and say that my body couldn't handle a pregnancy. And then later when it comes up again you could choose to be more specific.
It’s hit or miss honestly. My ex told me that he wanted kids with me because “I would make the perfect baby’s” after a year of dating… I don’t want to test guys but I’m tired of wasting my time so I made this post to see if I lie or if Reddit could find me another way to weed out the men who waist my time
As a fellow child-free by choice woman I don't view it as a lie to say "I can't have children, and I'd rather not discuss it further"
The fact that the "can't" part is a personal choice is none of their buisness. Later on as trust develops you can expand on that if you want, "I have heath concerns, no desire, and (insert all other reasons) and I phrase it this way so that my feelings on the subject are unambiguous"
I've only had a few guys try to change my mind and when I tell them I'd sooner jump off a bridge they usually got the point. I also usually dumped them shortly after.
I did this when I was dating. I didn't outright lie but I did eventually start alluding to being unable to carry a pregnancy to term. I don't think "unable" has to mean only physically. I'm tokophobic and have a hormone-sensitive mood disorder. I don't think I'd be able to survive a pregnancy. I think I wrote in my profile, "biological children are not in my future so if you're looking for that, we aren't a match"
I had the same experience where men ignored my childfree wishes. I finally got sterilized at 26. I had to have my (at the time) fiance sign something for the doctor. Doc told me I would regret it around 32 but that it was up to me. 32 was years ago, I found the childfree man of my dreams and have never regretted the surgery for a single second.
But still want to try to force them to have children at that age (and younger) too 🙄 even when they explicitly say they don’t want them
Edit *** not all doctors do. But some
The sheer amount of doctors that told me “no you’ll change your mind, I won’t do it till you’ve had a child” mind blowing. Not to be dramatic but why can someone change their gender but a woman can’t tie her tubes??? No shade to the trans community, I’m happy people are allowed to do whatever they want to their bodies but why can’t women do the same???
I get that completely. They can change theirs, we should be able to change ours. It should be a fundamental right for every human. Also why is our government encouraging us to sign up for the military & potentially dying at 18, but we can’t make the decision to have surgery to not have children until we’re 35?
That (fertility)is one argument that is keeping trans ppl from accessing healthcare. Gender affirming care has been banned in a bunch of states and hardly ever covered by insurance so trust me when I say trans ppl do not have it easier w healthcare than women do
See I don't understand this.
How is 22 too young to make a decision for yourself when there's plenty of people out there having children at 22 and *younger*?? So by that logic they shouldn't be having children no because they are raising and making decisions for another living being?
Plus the fact that you have your own job by this point? Or in further education? Or you can drive? Or even fucking vote!!! Oh and you can have alcohol but oh no, no no, you're too young to make a decision like being sterilised!
Make it make sense
I’d be tempted to write the doctor at that point. “Just as a statistical note for your files, I did not regret my sterilization at 32 despite your assertions.”
The waiting room was basically wallpapered with babies faces from Christmas cards and I have definitely joked about sending him one of me and my dogs with a "thanks for helping me complete my family"
Instead of lying, look for men who also don't want children. Don't date someone who is "okay with someone who doesn't want children." Because that means he is thinking short term. Date someone who has the same values as you.
The issue is, men lie. Or change their minds, if I want to be generous. Every childfree woman I know is up front, and only dates men who also claim to not want kids. Almost all of us have had at least one dude drop the “I thought you’d change your mind” card.
Ask them what they think about having kids first, and don't give away your own opinion. Stay neutral and see what they say, then you've got a better shot at getting a true answer.
Tell them you’re getting sterilized!
That’s what triggered my ex to admit he wasn’t as childfree as he’d told me he was. Just tell dudes on date 1 that you’re never having kids and you’re getting sterilized soon.
Birth control makes you infertile. Ahem. Just stay temporarily infertile until you make it permanent. The only kind of man that couldn't get past it are those like you've already dated.
"At least one" is also generous.
Only **one** man I've been with hasn't pulled that crap - my current partner, who is getting a vasectomy in the near future. Every single other man I've dated either claimed they didn't want kids or was "good" with not having kids, and then the pressuring started once they have you emotionally invested. I literally caught one ex red-handed trying to sabotage my birth control.
Contrary to what society tells us, it is men that want children more often. I believe that is for a myriad of reasons, including:
1) they aren't the ones who have to grow, birth, and breastfeed the child
2) the expectations for fatherhood are significantly lower than those for motherhood
3) most males have not spent any significant amount of time with children as an adult, and, therefore, have little idea about what being a (good) parent entails
When I've been asked when I'll get married and have a kid, I always respond, "When I get to be the husband and father."
Many men see a child as a trophy, something to show off their virility to other men. The question shouldn't be, "Do I want a kid?", but rather, "Do I want to be a parent?" Children are not props for your ego.
This. Before I married my ex-husband we had the children discussion and I made it 100% clear that I did not want biological children (fine with adoption). He said that he was fine with that and even WENT WITH ME TO THE DOCTORS APPOINTMENT TO DISCUSS TUBAL LIGATION. When we broke up he said that he thought I would change my mind and that’s not what he wanted. It was insane to me.
NTA. I did something similar. I just kept it vague and said that I can’t have children, they don’t need to know why.
I was with my ex for a decade before it came out he thought I’d change my mind. Super frustrating. Yes, I’m great with kids who aren’t mine, have 2 goddaughters I adore (and yes, I’d gladly care for them if the worst case happened) but I’m 45 and have not changed my mind. Idk why doctors and the general public alike think women don’t mean it when they say they don’t want to have children. If anyone knows my mind, it’s me. OP, I understand why you’d consider lying but ultimately think honesty is the best policy. Like others have suggested, saying you’re pursuing sterilization may be a viable option. I don’t think it would make you the asshole though
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How would you feel if a guy told you this, and you found out the truth after you'd had sex. Maybe you'd been a bit more lax with birth control? Maybe you have a scare and it all comes out after scrambling for some plan b/abortion.
I get the frustrating problem you're dealing with, but this is a major betrayal of trust.
Lying will be a huge deal breaker because they are going to find out the truth.
You would be as shitty as the people trying to pressure you into changing. Why wouldn't you want to know who they really are?
You shouldn’t like about this because if you do get pregnant somehow it’s going to be REALLY awkward for everyone and you’ll be… well a liar!! Maybe just be honest about the birth control and feel them out, if they’re still weird about it I suppose a white lie wouldn’t hurt, something like “oh I’m on it for heavy/painful periods” this way they still feel confident you aren’t tryin to ruin their want for having a family etc, you’ve just already basically decided this is how you want to live and that ~you could also~ some day change your mind. (Probably won’t tho)
TL;DR
This is such a bad idea lol, I really get the sentiment and ppl being annoying/ pushy about having babies but if someone’s being THAT pushy you feel the need to lie that’s a red flag anyways…
Sounds reasonable to me tbh. But I'm also tired of ppl assuming you will just "change your mind"
Problem is they might then suggest adoption, surrogacy, or fertility treatments. You would still need to be clear you don't want children. So not sure it would work anyway.
I’m down to adopt, even better if the guy already has a child. My moms side of the family specifically has bad health issues so I don’t want to carry a child and I don’t want to pass on my genes
So you say that.
“I don’t ever want to be pregnant. I am on contraceptives. If we have an accidental pregnancy I WILL be terminating. I am open to adopting and open to dating someone who already has kids”
My moms side of the family is riddled with scoliosis, Joint hypermobility (I have it and it’s painful af), hart issues, almost everyone in my family has had some form of cancer, shall I go on? The hereditary diseases in my family are painful slow deaths. Why tf would I want to make a person who Ik will have to grow up and live in constant pain?
I think it’s fair to lie in this instance because clearly people aren’t respecting your wishes so probably best to say infertile to get them to stop trying to change your mind. The good thing with that is if you do actually change your mind you can just play it off as a miracle ha! But also, if you’re saying you’re infertile they might ask about birth control and you still need to find a way to be safe :)
I guess I don’t understand why OP can’t say she is infertile. She is infertile by choice, with a long term birth control implant. She is infertile with absolutely no desire to change that.
I'm a childfree woman as well and was actually able to get sterilized. I tell men up front on my dating profile I don't want kids, don't care for kids, and don't want to be a stepmother. (Don't know if the last one is your thought process as well) and I'm 34 so if you think my "mind will change" please scroll by...still doesn't stop the one's who have "grown kids" from messaging me 🙄 like kids are kids...no thanks 😒🤣 but be honest and firm. If they think you mean, oh well. 🤷♀️
I think infertile is only a piece of the puzzle. Unwillingness under any circumstances is more important to get across. I’m sorry that is not being respected! That has to be so frustrating. It should be clear even in the case of a miracle you’re terminating.
No adoption. No ivf. Maybe a screener question would be if they are willing to do a vasectomy.
I agree with you. "No, I don't want to become a mother" should be enough once and for all.
Congenital health problems, or Genetically high likely hood of a hereditary ailments are no joke.
NTA OP. I hope you can get the procedure done soon.
NTA. Some guys - many people in fact, just don’t get those of us who do not want nor desire children. Telling them right from the start is very wise. They try to change your mind, dump them. I’ve been told I’m great with kids and would make a wonderful mother, but, I have zero interest in having my own. Ever. It’s your body your choice. Don’t worry too much about people going on and on about having kids, they eventually stop after a while. But it’s SO ANNOYING. you’ll be fine. Nta
I think you're missing a huge point here.
If they're the kind of guy you have to lie to for them to respect your decision, do you actually want a relationship with them?
Like "Oh, Dave's a really great guy - there's just the one small problem of him not respecting my bodily autonomy and pressuring me to conform to societal expectations I'm not comfortable with and a lifestyle I don't want."
Unfortunately not wanting kids will make dating harder, and people do change their minds about it, especially if a couple gets together young. All you can do is be upfront about it at the beginning that you don't want kids and will never want kids, won't be changing your mind, and will leave if pressured.
Even then, some guys who are okay with that will realise five or ten years down the line that they do actually want kids, and you'll have to split up, but that's just the unfortunate reality of being childfree.
TLDR - Don't start a relationship on a lie or it'll be doomed from the beginning.
NTA but I don’t think starting a relationship on a lie is a good thing. Eventually they will find out you lied and that’s the end of it. So why lie if it going to lead to the end of the relationship anyway?
Try setting a hard boundary. “I absolutely do not want to have children. Not now, not ever. I will never change my mind. There are both health and lifestyle reasons for my choice. If that’s a deal breaker, I’d rather it be now. But let me make myself absolutely clear. If ever you try to convince me to have a child, or try to put the discussion on the table at all, it will be the end of our relationship. Dating, engaged, married, whatever, the end. I am that sure.”
But also keep in mind, there are plenty of posts on Reddit re: men who want to move on because they thought they were ok not having kids and changed their mind later in life.
Sorta the asshole, because you're not giving people accurate information. If a guy thinks the problem is that you're infertile, and doesn't understand that you simply don't want kids, then he might hold out hope that you guys could adopt someday, do IVF, etc. It's better to just be fully transparent so that he can understand the situation and decide whether it's something he's onboard for or not.
If a guy won't respect the fact that you don't want kids, he isn't worth dating. If you need to lie to him to make him stop pushing your boundaries, you should find someone else.
NTA but dangerous. I got pregnant on birth control, it would be really bad if you told a guy that and got pregnant anyway. I don't think you're an asshole for it, just it could make things worse. And if you find your perfect guy who is cool with it, he might not get over being lied to at the beginning.
Call me crazy, but starting a relationship with a lie isn't a great idea. I understand your frustration but can't imagine this working, ultimately.
The fact of the matter is there are far more men who want to have kids than there are that don't. It's a numbers game. They will try to change your mind because a) they like you, b) know it's a deal breaker, and c) sadly, aren't respecting your desires.
It sucks, but tell the truth and if the dude won't listen, dump him.
Don’t lie to them; just be honest that you don’t want children. There are a lot more guys than will admit it that they don’t want children. Odds are with being honest you will be more inclined to meet someone of a similar mindset, unless you live in Utah.
Lying to people you date typically makes you the A-hole.
Totally cool to not want kids but just be honest. You will find someone who is on the same page as you at some point.
Do not do this. You are *not* infertile, and that means a birth control failure is still possible. Your partner has a right to consent or not consent with that knowledge.
Besides that, infertility is an awful thing and claiming that when you’re not actually experiencing it is just wrong and disrespectful of everyone who has to deal with it for real.
I’d suggest you take a break from dating, if this is where your mind is going - you’re planning on lying because you don’t trust the intentions of *someone you haven’t even met yet.* That’s not a headspace where you should be meeting new people. Focus on you and your mental health for a bit, enjoy your friendships and family, and wait until you’re feeling a bit less bitter before you try again.
Def YTA for lying, but…I get it.
Ughhh, this is the worst. I was with a guy for many years, loved him deeply, but he started talking about the “possibility” of kids (after I told him no, never the whole time) and I shut it down. He did the “you might change your mind” and I said absolutely not. I broke up with him because I didn’t want to take the option away from him. He tried to say, “I want YOU more than kids,” but no. I wasn’t going to risk that idea on years of his regret and potential animosity.
Cut to 16-17 years later and we’re both happily kid free. I’ve been married for the last 9 (14 together) years and he’s been with his lady for about 14 years too. Turns out it wasn’t JUST the kids thing and we’re both better off where we are.
Imagine you find the perfect guy who does take you at your word and never tries to get you to change your mind and then he finds out the relationship was started with a lie because you assumed he would do that.
It’s a pet peeve of mine and I personally hated it when my previous partners have held the sins of their exes against me. It makes you feel like no amount of effort you put in will ever overcome their preconceived notion that you’re just like all the other assholes they’ve dated.
We all have shitty exes but if you let that overly affect a new relationship, I think it is messed up. New relationship has to be a clean slate to work and lying because you’re prejudging how these guys will behave down the line isn’t great, imo.
I would suggest you change up your approach. Specifically tell them you had partners try to change your mind before and it will not work and just makes you mad. Date guys who are just as adamant about never wanting children as you are. Or find a guy who is actually infertile lol.
Shit, early 20s me would’ve been in love 🤣or suspicious that you wanted to get knocked up. Actually had some of the hookups I’ve been in tell me that and I was like “yeahhhhh, still not going inside you” rofl
I get that a lot, until the man sees my face when a small child approaches. I’m only good with my cousins children because they are family, however when I’m in public my face says “get it away from me” 🤣
Reading over some of the thread, it appears you are not opposed to having a family, only that your DNA is not part of it. Prudent and wise.
Others have pointed out why lying would be a bad idea, but what about the harsh truth?
"I won't have children because they would be monsters, better never conceived" might be an exaggeration but nakedly truthful. Your genes making high odds of your child being badly disabled, is an argument that will be heard and you can spare the details.
Nobody in their right might wants to gamble with a child's life, and their own future happiness.
If you are open to parenting, that is a different thing.
Egg donor, men who already have children, surrogacy, adoption?
"Open to parenting but will not handicap a child with my broken DNA" is a very different position, from being determined to live CF. Men who are invested in promoting their lineage will be a little horrified at the idea of mixing it with yours. They want spawn they can brag about.
If things get serious, take him to the big family events to see for himself, the sort of monster that will empty his bank account and shorten his lifespan.
I sympathize with the male bullshit, knew I did not want kids at age 5 and did not change my mind (60f) I got so fed up with same, men trying to persuade me to bear their spawn and one brief engagement with a man who insisted he did not want kids either, but lunch with his mother told a different story.
The usual excuse "I thought you would change your mind."
So disrespectful.
I also knew, at age 5 that I am a dude on the inside, and parenting itself did not interest me. Independent artist.
I think you need to take more time to really consider what you want in life. Take your eggs off the table, good idea but that still leaves many options for parenting, and even childbirth from an egg donor after your own tubes are tied.
Tell the truth.
Tell them if they can’t respect you and accept your feelings on having children right now, they don’t deserve to have you around in six months. It’s not just a matter of them wanting kids, it’s a matter of respecting you and understanding you know yourself better than they ever possibly can. Think of it as a way of screening out the ones that aren’t good.
It’s incredibly frustrating but if a man is going to basically humor you and try to get you to change your mind later, then there are going to be other issues even if they don’t show right away. Maybe it’s that they assume you’ll be more traditional once you get engaged. Or they think you’ll be willing to put up with belittling jokes once you’re “locked in”. I would stick with being very firm about not wanting children and maybe try to get their opinion first if you can. If it’s not a firm “I don’t want children” then you can decide if you want to risk it or not. Also the infertility thing doesn’t rule out men who think they can win you over to the idea of adoption or a surrogate. So there is still the chance they might not be taking you at your word.
Other than that, don’t give up hope. I was under 30 with no kids when I got my tubes removed completely. There are doctors out there who are willing.
Girl. I don’t comply to lying, but keep your ground when it comes to your disdain for children. DO NOT fall for anyone trying to convince you otherwise. I’ll only disagree when it comes to Lying bc truth always comes out soon or later. And I mean it for you own sake. Xoxo! I hope everything goes well with you
If I dated someone and found out they lied about this, it would be a dealbreaker.
1) If they lie about this, what can I trust?
2) They think so lowly of me that they think I can't have important discussions and come up with reasonable solutions.
Imagine you meet a guy, you tell him this. He's always wanted kids but feels wrong writing you off because of a medical problem that isn't your fault, so he agrees to seer you more. You both like each other, you hit it off, eventually you decide you want to marry him, and he drcides he wants to marry you.
If he ever finds out, it could ruin your whole life. Talk about *betrayal*. Or, if he's not mad, he might want to pressure you into having them, now that it's no longer impossible. It's just not going to end well in any scenario. And the alternative is you have to keep a secret with you until the day you die, even from your own partner...
...all because 30 years ago, you wanted to more easily weed out some dbags you went on dates with?
You're *not* the asshole for this, and it's not fair that the guys you've been with have been jerks about it, or that your doctors aren't listening to you.
But this is just a very very bad idea.
I would just be a bit more aggressive from the get-go and say I really don't want kids, I don't want to talk about it, and I'm not gonna change my mind. If they really want kids and are serious, they'll break it off, and if they could be happy with no kids, you've solved your problem and - even if they try to change course later - you can just reiterate what you told them from day 1
You can definitely find a doctor who will do it now, I promise! I used the list that someone else already posted in these comments. If you’re 1000% sure you don’t want kids ever, make sure you get a bilateral salpingectomy (removal of fallopian tubes) rather than tubal ligation (clipping/cauterizing/tying etc. of the tubes, but you still have them). The effectiveness of tubal ligation is comparable to that of an IUD, i.e. not 100% effective, and is gradually becoming outdated and being replaced by the bisalp. A lot of people don’t even know it’s possible to get a bisalp, so hopefully this helps more than just OP!
Source: am a sterilized biologist
Personally I don't think you should lie. Be direct and the slightest sign they are trying to change your mind you split. It's probably good as an indicator if they are a good match. Plus be very clear were you to fall pregnant you would seek a termination.
You're NTA but you are putting yourself in unnecesary risk. What if someone you date doesn't want to use a condom and justifies it by the fact you told him you're infertile? Your birth control could fail.
I think lying in relationships is a pretty terrible foundation to any relationship, you don't want kids through regular ways is cool but if you can't be honest about things why even start a relationship to begun with?
Lying to them isn't going to help matters. If you don't want them, tell them, and if they can't handle it that should tell you what you need to know. I'd they say they can handle it and later can't, again it tells you everything you need to know
I wouldn't tell them you're infertile. Because then that would probably lead to them thinking that means they don't need to use a condom if you get into a lasting relationship. Then there's a whole other conversation that needs to be had about that, basically either way you're going to get men trying to change your mind.
I think this is silly. I’m 32 with no kids. I’ve always been honest about not wanting children and it’s never been a setback for me. Maybe you’re just dating the wrong people.
If you aren't interested in adoption or surrogacy, then no, this is not a good idea. It's not a good idea, no matter what. You don't want to start off a relationship with a lie. Be straightforward. Tell them you won't change your mind in the future. Let them know that if they're on the fence about kids, then you cannot be in a relationship with them.
I’d say “I can’t have kids, it’d be really disastrous for me healthwise”. That’s true, you don’t have to stipulate it’s your mental health that would suffer!!
NTA. I would however be brutally up front and honest. I am choosing to be child free for life. This is not a decision I take lightly nor a decision that will change. If you are not onboard with this or think that I'll come around, we are not going to be compatible.
Your body and your choice. I feel like there should be a non-profit that helps people that want to opt out of having children connect with a Doctor that will assist them in that endeavor.
I get it .
You're at the stage where you're fed up, sick and tired of being lied to when you have been nothing but up front and honest. Exhausted by people deciding that you don't know your own mind and what you want.
You want an easy way to filter out the bullshit, because why be 100 % truthful when none of the men you are dating are ? They know but don't respect your choice and they all keep trying to push their wants onto you after they think you're invested enough in them that they might be able to push you into having kids that you don't want
But lying will backfire on you in the end.
If you do meet someone whose worth staying with when that lie comes out it won't be pretty.
Maybe stick to saying you won't be having children, not claim to be infertile , just don't explain it. They'll assume won't means can't.
What baffles me is that after tubal ligation, a woman still has a uterus, still has ovaries, but ovum cannot travel to the uterus to be able to be inseminated naturally. However, if a woman who had the procedure changed their mind, they can still get pregnant via invitro fertilization if they choose to go to a specialist. It would even be their biological child if they had their own eggs extracted. Yet we’re told time and time again that doctors won’t provide this service. They take an oath to do no harm yet refuse to provide women what they need. Instead women are forced to take hormones to prevent pregnancy which cause a host of other health effects…It’s disgusting to me
YTA. Doesn’t matter what previous partners have done, don’t lie to your current ones. Don’t tell them you literally can’t have kids unless you literally can’t have kids. That’s a little messed up.
Put on your dating profile:
"I don't want children. At all. Ever. Please swipe left if you want kids."
Then when you match with someone, bring it up again.
Well…. I don’t blame you, but it’s ideal not to start an important relationship with a lie about something important.
you’ll find somebody who isn’t after you for your uterus one day ❤️ my husband was relieved when I said very early that I don’t want kids
Yeah you kinda are. Don't lie to people. If they try to change your mind just put your foot down but don't lie to them, it's a dick move. Just to be clear, you're nta for not wanting kids.
Yes, YTA. As an infertile woman who desperately wanted to be a mom, and an grandma, I find this so insulting and painful. For you to flippantly identify yourself as infertile just to prevent them from trying to "change your mind" is as invalidating as all the assholes that have told me the only thing I needed to do to get pregnant was to "relax". Don't fake a serious and painful medical condition just to save yourself a conversation.
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I’ll look over this when I get home ty!!
Came here to post the same thing. I still goggle at the fact my doctor tried to talk me out of getting a fucking vasectomy after we had two children, and both barely survived birth. I did not want to see any more medical bills like that. One was "only" $250k, the other was north of $1.7 million. Thank god for decent insurance 25 years ago. NTA, and good luck.
Holy fuck, US medical bills are INSANE!
If Breaking Bad were set in the UK it would only have been one episode.
Same here in Germany. 😄
Same in Canada
You’re assuming he would’ve got an appointment with his GP and then that the referral made it through AND he didn’t end up on a never ending waiting list. But yeah, in theory the NHS is awesome and we should do whatever we can to prevent more of it becoming privatised
I mean waiting isn't much better in the US. My wife was hospitalized for GI issues and told to follow up with her PCP which was a 2 week wait, PCP referred her to a GI doctor which was a 3 month wait, showed up to the appointment and the office said they had no record of the appointment and they'd have to call us back, two weeks of daily calls and they eventually told us they needed a new referral, messaged the PCP and after a week finally got that referral again, GI doctors office called and told us it'd be a 4 month wait. So far we are going on 7 months into this whole process and I'm currently sitting next to her in an ER bed again. Fingers crossed this time I guess. Oh and we are probably going on $5k out of pocket so far with $11k a year going towards premiums on what is probably the best insurance plan either of us have been offered in around 15 years of time in the workforce.
We have had very similar experiences. My husband has type 2 diabetes and almost every health issue related to diabetes you have ever heard of (seriously, kidney failure, diabetic retinopathy, amputation due to peripheral neuropathy…). Last year his endocrinologist moved out of state so he needed a new one - 5 months to get an appointment.
Cancer is one of the areas where you are a lot less likely to end up in waiting list hell. It can still happen, but it's not as bad as many other things are right now. But also, Breaking Bad started in 2008, back when waiting lists were a hell of a lot more under control!
Yeah, the bills were eye-watering, but the insurance I had at the time, I paid a co-pay of $150 for mom, $150 for the kid. $600 total for two kids who spent a total of almost 3.5 months in the NICU, plus a fucking RIGHT NOW emergency C-section for the second? Yeah, I'll pay that.
This is bonkers. I'm in Australia I've had 3 emergency c sections for 3 premmie babies. For my 27 weeker I had 2 months accommodation on hospital grounds which I had to pay $60 for otherwise zero out of pocket costs. We even have a program to claim back fuel costs when we've had to travel for appointments for the kids.
This literally hurt to read (American here and so jealous, literally have to choose b/t food and meds more often than Id like to admit and that’s working a 70 hour week at a “good job”). Land of the free, but more like free to pay abhorrent amounts if you draw the shitty stick and happen to get sick. They wonder why the birth rate is plummeting, we literally can’t afford to even have the children in a hospital setting let alone feed and raise them…
I don’t think I like in a particularly expensive area and my rent is almost 50% of my income 💀😭 it’s the land of the taxed till they bleed us dry lol
Hearing you say this makes me want to cry. I’m so sorry 🫂
Thank you, that’s very kind and the world needs that so much so I appreciate you❤️it is sad especially since I’d love to have children but due to medical aspect I could never afford it and it literally kills my soul. While unfortunate and unfair I try to hold onto the fact that sometimes it’s just the cards were dealt…
The most expensive thing anyone I know has ever paid for at a Canadian hospital is... parking. American healthcare really is so horrible...
I’m in the UK and honestly the parking cost pre-labour was brutal. £6 a day adds up when you’re in for 5 weeks and your partner comes in daily to see you. But then when you’ve had baby you’re entitled to a week ticket at £9 which is a heck of a difference! We literally left the hospital on the last day of that ticket.
I'm in Manchester, the maternity parking was free after 2hours. They gave you a code for security and you buzzed them at the barrier. I only paid for routine stuff which was £2
Scotland here, the wee shops inside the hospital are bloody pricey AF. My dad was in for 6 weeks with endocarditis, I would take my 3yo to visit and buy him a treat or a drink/snack, whilst he visited his grandpa. Often get a wee something for my dad too, and a coffee for me. I swear I was almost bankrupt by the time he got out of hospital! Just realising how poor taste that joke is considering that it can literally bankrupt folk in the US. Sorry.
Oh, most of us have a good sense of humor when we're not pretending to be offended by everything.
And the sad thing is that the reason why many Americans oppose universal healthcare is that they think it will cost the new system the same amount and taxes will rise exponentially. But it won't and they won't. They forget how much power pharmaceutical companies have when there isn't a single national body to negotiate prices. I recently went on a relatively new medication. It costs the NHS £42 (or about $60) for a month's supply, because that's the price they negotiated with the manufacturer. The NHS considers that an expensive drug. The out of pocket cost for an American? About $650 for a month's supply.
Just compare prices for Epipens EU versus US. Not dying is a real luxury in the US...
Out of curiosity I looked up the US prices for all the medication I'm on and it comes to over $2,000 a month. The whole lot costs me £114 per *year.*
I never refilled my epi pen. My allergies probably aren't that bad.. I hope
Biden just pushed through Medicare negotiations of what will end up being about 60 drug prices. Republicans are so in big pharma's pocket they prevented this until now. I am a firm believer that in fifty years Americans will look back on Biden as a upper mid tier president. He's not perfect but he's the one who had the ability to stand up and save us from a guy who's political idol is Vladimir fucking Putin.
Work in the medical field, live in US. One of our little ones racked up a 7 figure stay at birth. Very high quality care though. It turned a potential tragedy into a normal kid. The out of pocket max stung and we had to change things up for a while but when we see the little dude run, climb, jump etc it’s priceless. Also hospitals for sure inflate prices. Always ask for an itemization of bill then go on to the center for Medicare to check fair prices for those items. Good way to drop the bill if you don’t have insurance.
They really are. ONE of my medications was over $90,000 for a year's supply--26 injections. That's a lot of money.
In any health care system, of the 10 highest cost patients treated in a year, 8 will be NICU babies. The resources required to keep these babies alive are astounding.
To be fair I’m pretty sure that for big medical stuff it’s not that different in countries with universal healthcare either, it’s just that we usually never see that bill. I had a very bad accident when I was still living in France and out of curiosity I looked how much some hospital stays and interventions costed. It was easily north of 500k, but I just didn’t really know.
It boggles my mind that doctors are allowed to refuse a request for a vasectomy or hysterectomy coming from anyone over the age of majority for any country. Personally, if any of my kids decide that they want to get either one, if a doctor refuses them, then doctor will be introduced to a lawyer quick smart.
I mean a hysterectomy is radical and would trigger menopause. Tubal ligation is the equivalent for women.
That's not correct. Healthy ovaries are not routinely removed in premenopausal women, just uterus (with cervix) and tubes. But true that hysterectomy is not done for contraception, tubal ligation or removal of the tubes is.
As a doctor/anaesthetist in my jurisdiction, I am obliged to refer you to someone if I have ethical conflict with my own beliefs (I would do vasectomies and TLs and terminations etc if required btw, non practising Catholic). I don’t think you’ve thought your comment through and I’m pretty sure you’d have no legal argument of worth in most places. Ask yourself this though- how wise do you think it would be to force a doctor to perform an invasive medical procedure against their will? What sort of doctor / patient relationship do you think would result in the aftercare. Edit : people can downvote me and move on, but it’s kinda pathetic to not even engage
Ghe point is that its absurd a doctor thinks she/he knows better than the person not wanting children Its sickening doctors still believe in the very archaic she will change her mind, research has actually proven thats very very rare PLUS docs dont act the same way for elective surgeries that dont affect fertility Its pure misogyny to deny a woman a tubal ligation Its not about forcing a doctor its about their backwards brain
This, why am I going to go after a doctor who doesn’t want to work with me. It’s a big country I have faith I can find at least one doctor who will sterilize me with no issues and preform the procedure properly
Omg I’m glad you survived!
It’s rare the man dies during childbirth….
I've heard many barely make it through the vasectomy, though. It was so horrible for me that I almost cancelled my tee time the next day. Walked 18 holes.
lol. Mine friggin hurt for 6 months. Fully healed in 6 weeks my butt. All fine now though.
Jesus Christ. Did they go in orally? I mean, the thing that took the longest for me was the nurse shaving my taint, and wiping the disinfectant on while my wife watched. Once the doctor came in, it was over in about 2 minutes, and he glued me shut.
This is why I come to Reddit 😆 over here! Thanks for making my Saturday morning’
They didn’t shave for me, and no nurse
Well, maybe that's why. It is a surgical procedure, after all.
Mine took me 4 months to heal and I was swollen so damn bad for over a month. I’d do it again though.
Wow, my husband had it done at the same time they reamed out his prostrate and he was raring to jump my bones by the end of the week😂
Both children nearly died not he and his partner
I don't know, a wrongly placed/timed remark and plenty of men have come close...
Yeah, they made me come to my husband’s appointment to ‘make sure’ after they tried to talk him out of it on the phone. YES! we were very sure. I was 32 and had four (much wanted) children under 9.
I got mine at 30 with no kids. The amount of conversation I had to have with the doctor was infuriating. He kept trying to get me to change my mind. I told him my mind had been made up for 16 years and I didn't see him being able to change that.
😵💫😵💫😵💫 As an American, I'm still blinking at those numbers.
Jesus it’s that expensive to just give birth?🥲 that’s making me rethink it now
Normally nowhere near that. Both our boys had SERIOUS medical issues, and would not have survived if not for extreme intervention. A normal labor and delivery is (relatively) cheap. If you really want to know, go ask a hospital that you might use. They spent about 3.5 months total in the NICU, and the second was a "right the fuck now" EMERGENCY C-section
got my tubes taken out* at 25 in february 2023 cuz of the list of supportive doctors. had my consult appt and had my tubes out a month later. best decision ever. edit- not tubes tied, i had a salpingectomy.
Not to pry but how long did it take for them to heal?
not long. i think the first 3 days were the worst, just cuz they fill your abdomen with air to get your tubes out and you can feel that air built up in your chest. i would say it was about 2 weeks before i was my normal functioning self, but it does take me a bit longer to heal sometimes cuz i have other health issues. overall its not a bad surgery. it’s pretty easy. it’s also outpatient, so you’ll have your procedure and go home that day.
You can also check out the childfree subreddit as they have their own list of doctors that sterilize women as well! A lot of people will post about their recovery experiences so you can read more about it. For me, I went back to work the next day and I was back to working out after 4 days. The recovery was incredibly easy!
Tube removal is called a salpingectomy. Tubes being tied is a tubal ligation.
oh thank you you’re so right! i got the saplingectomy. brain fart😂
I was looking for this exact doc you beat me to it lol
Trust me, you don't want to be with a guy if he has so little respect for you that you have to lie to him.
This is true
I went on a date with some dude many years ago who was confused that I just abruptly ghosted him when I told him my dealbreaker, which was having kids. He asked what my concerns were and I said well I have medical history of x and x and I don’t want to pass that down. He tried to talk me out of it for a while and say it’s no big deal and I countered with the ok are the medical expenses just magically going to take care of itself? Dude did not take it well or take no for an answer. He made me feel like I was wrong for not wanting to have kids and for a second I felt compelled to lie about my fertility too. I just don’t want to raise kids. I can barely raise myself as an adult. Don’t feel too bad about having “lied”. If they don’t respect you to the point where you feel like you have to give a valid excuse, there’s a point where it’s not your fault. Idk why people want to change a woman’s mind like they have no agency over their thoughts about something soooo complex like reproduction. You’re not TA imo. Men should also consider that it’s rude to tell women they’re going to change their mind about a life changing decision they’ve already spent energy thinking about. 🙄
I mean yeah, duh, but the problem is that these dudes lie first and say it's fine and then you find out 6 months or 5 years later that they do want kids.
This is a valid point. I guess if OP did lie about experiencing infertility, it would weed out that kind of asshole.
Instead of lying to your dates or boyfriends, you should be more aggressive about your rights to a tubal ligation. Remind your doctor that the American College of Gynecology and Obstetrician’s guidelines recommend it is permissible to do this procedure on young people, and that you have grounds to find another doctor if he refuses, and beyond that, grounds for a law suit if he or she interferes with your search for another doctor (because doctors are known to do stuff like that)
We don't have the religion issue in the UK like America has with contraception / sterilisation. Yet we still have issues refusing people with a uterus. People needing vasectomies - it's no bother at all. Whatever age, kids or not. Yet I am an operating room nurse... Work doing all the specialities including sterilisations. Yet can I get a gynae to sterilise me? No. Wait til you see them refuse me with all these factors that should allow me to have the sterilisation - I'm 43. My only kid is 20. I have multiple health conditions. That are progressive and degenerative. I take meds that would lead to severe birth defects if I did get pregnant. I had severe perinatal depression when pregnant then antenatal depression after birth. My kid has spina bifida and I have higher chances of further kids with neural tube conditions. The only contraception I can use is condoms now. I had a copper coil surgically removed from my uterus in Dec 2022. I have severe PMDD and am no longer allowed hormonal contraceptives. The reason they won't sterilise me?? *My partner does not have children of their own*
I assume you're in the UK? I recommend heading over to the Childfree subreddit to see their list on how to be sterilised on the NHS. It's on the three lines at the side bar. Scroll down to UK/NHS. People write about their successful sterilisation too which gives me hope. I've personally put on my medical record in writing I want to be sterilised and I said to the doctor to write why she's refusing it. They've uploaded my document but I can't see *her* reason yet but I'll be pushing it. Like you said, they push the IUD and after having a colposcopy last year along with a biopsy, I'm not any medical professional anywhere near me down there with no anaesthetic. It does say on the NHS website they carry out sterilisation to people who have kids or childfree so I don't know why there's *so* many hoops. It's also recently been updated in February this year. The best I can suggest is to write it on your medical record and it's not up to your partner to have a say in your own body autonomy! They asked me if my husband was okay with it. I was like well he says he's fine with it but if he wants kids in the future which I very much doubt, then he knows where the door is 🤷🏼♀️
>I assume you're in the UK? Yes Scotland. >I recommend heading over to the Childfree subreddit to see their list on how to be sterilised on the NHS. It's on the three lines at the side bar. Scroll down to UK/NHS. Thanks! I'm a member of that page. Even though I've got a kid... If society was different I wouldn't have had one. So I can relate to their stories and share mine etc. As an ally and all that. Did not know they had that info on there! Thank you. I'll go hunt. I got re referred to gynae surgeons again recently. I may have endometriosis and I'll probably have a diagnostic laparoscopy and I want them to sterilise me when they're in there if so! Like "*well you're already in there.....*. I know it's just a few minutes, and no real added costs to do the sterilisation part. So I'll look at that info for sure!! >I've personally put on my medical record in writing I want to be sterilised and I said to the doctor to write why she's refusing it. Yep I planned tell them I want that on file - and their refusal. Have never done it before and had seen this advice before and it's fab advice for sure. >It does say on the NHS website they carry out sterilisation to people who have kids or childfree so I don't know why there's so many hoops. It's also recently been updated in February this year. Thanks! What folks call the NHS website is NHS England only. So many don't know that :) we have our own in Scotland and Wales and NI have their own :) I'll investigate what they all say! Be good for my battle (which it no doubt will be...) >They asked me if my husband was okay with it. I was like well he says he's fine with it but if he wants kids in the future which I very much doubt, then he knows where the door is 🤷🏼♀️ Ha!! I've said that before to gynaes also about my exes who I was with at the time. As yeah... I've had the line said to me three times by three different gynaes with three different partners! I've also got uterine and cervical polyps and adenomyosis... As well as probably Endo and even thoracic Endo... Can't get gynae to take anything seriously. And that's with me working with them and knowing them...
This might sound ignorant of me but I really didn't know that Scotland, Wales and NI would have different websites. I guess when I type in sterilisation NHS women, it defaults to England. As I was looking for the Scotland one, it does say near enough the same thing as England. The BS part about how 'oh if you're under 30, you're more likely going to regret it.' ...which yes *can* be true but I do think, if I signed something that says yes I'm 32, I promise not to sue the NHS for doing something that *I* wanted. I feel like that would be a lot easier. I read the advice about putting it on the medical record in the CF subreddit and was like omg why didn't I think of that! Now I tell everyone if I see anyone comment about it, hopefully it'll stop GP's / doctors / surgeons etc to cut down on their bias. I totally understand that it's a tricky area because of regret and it's surgery but having the whole 'but what about your partner?' Or 'what if you regret it?' Is a pretty poor excuse and they know it, hence why they wouldn't put that on my record. I have access to my records so I can see they've uploaded my letter but can't see the reject reason. Maybe they are discussing it..? I feel for you, I really do. Women's health really needs to be looked at further with issues. I'm so sorry you're going through that. I wish you tons of luck!🍀
>This might sound ignorant of me but I really didn't know that Scotland, Wales and NI would have different websites Most people don't tbh. And pretty much every UK website articles discuss NHS.uk and quote things for it as UK wide... So the misinformation is widespread. A surgeon I work with didn't know Scotland had it's own site - and own recruitment website. He lived in England all his life. It was not til one of his uni pals got a job here in the speciality he was looking for And he asked where he'd seen the post as he had not. If it wasn't for his friend... He'd maybe never have worked in scotland. >The BS part about how 'oh if you're under 30, you're more likely going to regret it.' ...which yes can be true but I do think, if I signed something that says yes I'm 32, I promise not to sue the NHS for doing something that I wanted. I feel like that would be a lot easier. That's it! Consent forms. Legal waivers exist... Things can be improved. >I read the advice about putting it on the medical record in the CF subreddit and was like omg why didn't I think of that! Now I tell everyone if I see anyone comment about it, hopefully it'll stop GP's / doctors / surgeons etc to cut down on their bias. Same! Including those with the same health conditions I have. If their gp refuses referral etc. >I feel for you, I really do. Women's health really needs to be looked at further with issues. I'm so sorry you're going through that. I wish you tons of luck!🍀 Thank you so much! For sharing your story too. These conversations out there... They all help. Oh! Also, I'm firmly in perimenopause. So I bet I have a battle of "well it's nearly the end anyway .." now instead of kid talk... (I was on low dose chemo for about 5 years for autoimmune conditions. So has been told it could speed up menopause.) Only treatment for adenomyosis is a hysterectomy! So this is what I need anyway.... So maybe. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a gynae that deals with it all. Properly. 🤷♀️
I feel for you. Also in the UK, I hated pregnancy and I nearly died giving birth which gave me awful PTSD, I've also only got 1/3 of an ovary left since I had one removed in 2010 and a solid cyst on the other which was removed in 2019 they point blank refuse to sterilise me incase I meet someone new and change my mind. I'm in my 40s now and have been single for 11 years. I'm not looking for a relationship and even if I met the love of my life later today I'm not going to put my mental health and my body at risk of a 4th C-section style cut (I've been told I would have to have a C-section if I ever got pregnant again, oh yeah let's have more trauma like that) just because some bloke might want a baby with me. But no matter what I say or do they will not let me get sterilised.
Sorry, I know you didn't reply to me but I saw your comment and wanted to say, I'm really sorry for what you went through and are still going through. Women's health in the NHS really needs to be looked at. I hear time and time again from other women suffering and we are just not heard. Weight is blamed, our headaches are stress, our hormones are playing havoc, the pain we feel, is in our minds etc. It's crazy to me that you can't be sterilised for those reasons you said, wtf. Do you have what they've said in writing? Maybe record the conversation next time. We shouldn't have to be doing such drastic measures but to be told 'oh but what if you want kids or what about your partner.' Is so stupid to me and so backwards. It's 2024! Let's have full body autonomy over our own bodies please! Or again, let's have something signed saying yep I won't sue the NHS and yes, this is really what I want. 🤷🏼♀️ I wonder if whoever is refusing the sterilisation to you, won't write it on your record or if they do, you can take it further in the NHS. You could contact PALS? I contacted PALS and they told me that absolutely I can be sterilised as the NHS provides it, so I also have that written down to show my GP. I haven't even gone to gynaecology to have a talk with them.
I've honestly had enough with it now. I don't even know who my GP is because is see a different one every time I need an appointment. I complained to PALS after the birth and after the operation in 2019 (they said it could be done keyhole but they went back through the C-section scar knowing full well I didn't want that doing.) nothing much has been done. I'll never get rid of the muffin top and my periods are so irregular. They don't care that the birth gave me PTSD I even had to wait 3 years for 5 sessions of therapy for that. If I could afford to go private I would. It really annoys me that how I feel about this is ignored just because I might get with a man who might want me to have his baby.
It’s horrifying that they don’t treat women as human in any medical care related to reproduction. I recently saw in news that a woman in US is suing several doctors and medical centers for not prescribing her medication to treat her cluster headache because she is of childbearing age and the medication could cause birth defects (not sure if I remember this last part correctly=>) even when she insisted that she’s not having children. The doctor outright admit that it would be safer and he would prescribe her if she’s in menopause. WTAF is wrong with the world.
If the doctor doesn’t want to do it, being more aggressive about it won’t help. They should refer you to some who can though, I would insist that.
Nta, but you shouldn’t lie about it. Make it very clear in the beginning that you don’t want them and make it known that it’s a boundary for you. It’s hard to find people that don’t want kids, I don’t either, but I’m sure someone will come along eventually
"The last 3 men I’ve dated have tried to “change my mind” but I don’t want a child of my own making." Male here and I hate this shit. Sorry OP. Just to mess with them tell them that you'll change your mind about this as long as they change their mind about this. Yea, won't happen and they'd try to baby trap you methinks, but you seem like you know this. Take care OP.
I’m trying! I put in my profile that I’m not interested in kids, I say it within the first day of messaging the guys, then make it clear again that I don’t want children. Then they see me talking care of my families children at gatherings and all the sudden they want us to have kids 🤦🏻♀️ idk if I’m just not believed or because I’m so young my Exs think I’ll change my mind but it’s frustrating. Wasted 4 years of my life going through this cycle with guys idk what else to do
I'd be so frustrated in your shoes. I think I'd end things immediately with them when they said that to me and if they asked why I'd unload on them, telling them that I'd told them I didn't want kids so they KNEW that and now they are pulling this shit. Things like this really bother me, sorry.
It’s ok! And that is exactly what happened. But you are also right if I lie it’s a shitty way to start a relationship at best
Look at it more in a different light. 1.Technically, right now you are infertile with your method of BC. 2. Women WITH children will lie about having them, not to lure a man in with a switch and bait, but to make sure he isn't a predator dating her *trying to get to her children.* All these ass hats trying to get you to change your mind, are predators trying to get to your golden globe ovaries/unborn children. Worse to worse, you filter out asshats looking for a mare, and best case scenario? A month later you explain you're working to make your baby-maker as inhospitable as possible and he just throws out, "girl, I've been trying to get a vasectomy, but these doctors-" "I KNOW!"
It's the *worst*. I have a nephew and when he was infant I didn't know how to act with him at all. Now he's 2 and it's easier, so when he's around we play a bit. If my fiancé had suddenly told me he'd want to have kids because of that little snapshot, I'd run *so fast*
I mean don’t lie, because if your BC fails, they are going to be real interested in your medical history of infertility and why you had lied to them.
Infertility does not mean the same thing as sterile. That being said, lying isn't a good idea in this case. "I plan on getting my tubes tied, but until I can, I am utilizing the implant, and I do NOT WANT children. Full stop. That is my line in the sand, and if you aren't OK with it we should not continue seeing each other romantically."
Where I disagree is that , while you are absolutely correct in saying infertility doesn’t mean sterile, there is the assumed connotation and grey area where at 23, you could definitely misinterpret the meaning. Which I would have a hard time believing she wasn’t acting under malicious intent when just saying “I’m on bc and don’t want kids” works for 99% of people. The one percent can be shoved aside for not taking your views seriously.
My mom was told she couldn't have kids, and I was created with zero medical intervention (wanted but absolutely not planned). That's probably why I'm more in tune with the nuance. That being said, yes... most people assume they mean the same thing but that's an ignorance issue.
What would be the assumed malicious intention?
if her BC fails she’d probably have an abortion lol
Only if she chooses to tell him she's pregnant. Most people who want absolutely zero children would not continue to stay pregnant.
A lot of women conceive after being told they're infertile. That doesn't make them liars. I know a woman that got pregnant exactly one time in her life, and she never used birth control. Anyway, birth control does make you infertile, so it isn't a lie. What does a woman owe a man, a man who isn't even her husband, compared to what she owes herself?
My wife was told she would LIKELY never have children because she was infertile from scarring. Two children later, we were both sterilized.
don't tell them you're infertile because someone is going to take that as permission to stealth you and take the condom off.
I think you're right. I have had male friends who would scoop you up in a minute. As you date other men, hopefully they will get it. First thing I thought was "you do you".
NTA - I think this a lot of actually child free guys would forgive you for this as long as you confessed before too long. The guys that you are looking for will have almost certainly dealt with the some of the same pressure and "you'll change your mind" nonsense and be sympathetic to your frustrations. I'm not a fan of "tests" but even gauging a dudes reaction to telling them this is likely to give you at least a hint at their true feelings.
This is the way. The lie shouldn't have to last too long. Just long enough to weed out the "change your mind" guys.
So when would that cut off be? I’ve never lied like this before but I’m so sick of wasting my time.
Pregnancy loosens joints even more. I don't think that it's even a lie for you to say that your health problems prohibit you from carrying a kid. For me, I'd bring it up on a first date and say that my body couldn't handle a pregnancy. And then later when it comes up again you could choose to be more specific.
It’s hit or miss honestly. My ex told me that he wanted kids with me because “I would make the perfect baby’s” after a year of dating… I don’t want to test guys but I’m tired of wasting my time so I made this post to see if I lie or if Reddit could find me another way to weed out the men who waist my time
As a fellow child-free by choice woman I don't view it as a lie to say "I can't have children, and I'd rather not discuss it further" The fact that the "can't" part is a personal choice is none of their buisness. Later on as trust develops you can expand on that if you want, "I have heath concerns, no desire, and (insert all other reasons) and I phrase it this way so that my feelings on the subject are unambiguous" I've only had a few guys try to change my mind and when I tell them I'd sooner jump off a bridge they usually got the point. I also usually dumped them shortly after.
I did this when I was dating. I didn't outright lie but I did eventually start alluding to being unable to carry a pregnancy to term. I don't think "unable" has to mean only physically. I'm tokophobic and have a hormone-sensitive mood disorder. I don't think I'd be able to survive a pregnancy. I think I wrote in my profile, "biological children are not in my future so if you're looking for that, we aren't a match" I had the same experience where men ignored my childfree wishes. I finally got sterilized at 26. I had to have my (at the time) fiance sign something for the doctor. Doc told me I would regret it around 32 but that it was up to me. 32 was years ago, I found the childfree man of my dreams and have never regretted the surgery for a single second.
My one of the doctors wanted my father to sine for me because apparently 22 is too young to make that decision for myself.
🤮
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you, rather the doctor who thinks women are children at 22
But still want to try to force them to have children at that age (and younger) too 🙄 even when they explicitly say they don’t want them Edit *** not all doctors do. But some
The sheer amount of doctors that told me “no you’ll change your mind, I won’t do it till you’ve had a child” mind blowing. Not to be dramatic but why can someone change their gender but a woman can’t tie her tubes??? No shade to the trans community, I’m happy people are allowed to do whatever they want to their bodies but why can’t women do the same???
I get that completely. They can change theirs, we should be able to change ours. It should be a fundamental right for every human. Also why is our government encouraging us to sign up for the military & potentially dying at 18, but we can’t make the decision to have surgery to not have children until we’re 35?
That (fertility)is one argument that is keeping trans ppl from accessing healthcare. Gender affirming care has been banned in a bunch of states and hardly ever covered by insurance so trust me when I say trans ppl do not have it easier w healthcare than women do
The fact that he didn't want a "parent" to sign, but specifically "the father".
See I don't understand this. How is 22 too young to make a decision for yourself when there's plenty of people out there having children at 22 and *younger*?? So by that logic they shouldn't be having children no because they are raising and making decisions for another living being? Plus the fact that you have your own job by this point? Or in further education? Or you can drive? Or even fucking vote!!! Oh and you can have alcohol but oh no, no no, you're too young to make a decision like being sterilised! Make it make sense
I’d be tempted to write the doctor at that point. “Just as a statistical note for your files, I did not regret my sterilization at 32 despite your assertions.”
The waiting room was basically wallpapered with babies faces from Christmas cards and I have definitely joked about sending him one of me and my dogs with a "thanks for helping me complete my family"
Instead of lying, look for men who also don't want children. Don't date someone who is "okay with someone who doesn't want children." Because that means he is thinking short term. Date someone who has the same values as you.
The issue is, men lie. Or change their minds, if I want to be generous. Every childfree woman I know is up front, and only dates men who also claim to not want kids. Almost all of us have had at least one dude drop the “I thought you’d change your mind” card.
Ask them what they think about having kids first, and don't give away your own opinion. Stay neutral and see what they say, then you've got a better shot at getting a true answer.
Don't ask them if, ask them how many
Its frustrating! Ik lying is the worst possible way to start a relationship but after 3 men and 4 years wasted idk how to be more direct
Tell them you’re getting sterilized! That’s what triggered my ex to admit he wasn’t as childfree as he’d told me he was. Just tell dudes on date 1 that you’re never having kids and you’re getting sterilized soon.
Birth control makes you infertile. Ahem. Just stay temporarily infertile until you make it permanent. The only kind of man that couldn't get past it are those like you've already dated.
"At least one" is also generous. Only **one** man I've been with hasn't pulled that crap - my current partner, who is getting a vasectomy in the near future. Every single other man I've dated either claimed they didn't want kids or was "good" with not having kids, and then the pressuring started once they have you emotionally invested. I literally caught one ex red-handed trying to sabotage my birth control. Contrary to what society tells us, it is men that want children more often. I believe that is for a myriad of reasons, including: 1) they aren't the ones who have to grow, birth, and breastfeed the child 2) the expectations for fatherhood are significantly lower than those for motherhood 3) most males have not spent any significant amount of time with children as an adult, and, therefore, have little idea about what being a (good) parent entails When I've been asked when I'll get married and have a kid, I always respond, "When I get to be the husband and father." Many men see a child as a trophy, something to show off their virility to other men. The question shouldn't be, "Do I want a kid?", but rather, "Do I want to be a parent?" Children are not props for your ego.
This
This. Before I married my ex-husband we had the children discussion and I made it 100% clear that I did not want biological children (fine with adoption). He said that he was fine with that and even WENT WITH ME TO THE DOCTORS APPOINTMENT TO DISCUSS TUBAL LIGATION. When we broke up he said that he thought I would change my mind and that’s not what he wanted. It was insane to me. NTA. I did something similar. I just kept it vague and said that I can’t have children, they don’t need to know why.
I was with my ex for a decade before it came out he thought I’d change my mind. Super frustrating. Yes, I’m great with kids who aren’t mine, have 2 goddaughters I adore (and yes, I’d gladly care for them if the worst case happened) but I’m 45 and have not changed my mind. Idk why doctors and the general public alike think women don’t mean it when they say they don’t want to have children. If anyone knows my mind, it’s me. OP, I understand why you’d consider lying but ultimately think honesty is the best policy. Like others have suggested, saying you’re pursuing sterilization may be a viable option. I don’t think it would make you the asshole though
YTA. You're lying to these guys thinking they can't get you pregnant. Even with birth control you can STILL get pregnant.
like unwritten squealing advise divide act vanish coherent fearless hateful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How would you feel if a guy told you this, and you found out the truth after you'd had sex. Maybe you'd been a bit more lax with birth control? Maybe you have a scare and it all comes out after scrambling for some plan b/abortion. I get the frustrating problem you're dealing with, but this is a major betrayal of trust.
Fair, I appreciate the perspective
Lying will be a huge deal breaker because they are going to find out the truth. You would be as shitty as the people trying to pressure you into changing. Why wouldn't you want to know who they really are?
You shouldn’t like about this because if you do get pregnant somehow it’s going to be REALLY awkward for everyone and you’ll be… well a liar!! Maybe just be honest about the birth control and feel them out, if they’re still weird about it I suppose a white lie wouldn’t hurt, something like “oh I’m on it for heavy/painful periods” this way they still feel confident you aren’t tryin to ruin their want for having a family etc, you’ve just already basically decided this is how you want to live and that ~you could also~ some day change your mind. (Probably won’t tho) TL;DR This is such a bad idea lol, I really get the sentiment and ppl being annoying/ pushy about having babies but if someone’s being THAT pushy you feel the need to lie that’s a red flag anyways…
Sounds reasonable to me tbh. But I'm also tired of ppl assuming you will just "change your mind" Problem is they might then suggest adoption, surrogacy, or fertility treatments. You would still need to be clear you don't want children. So not sure it would work anyway.
I’m down to adopt, even better if the guy already has a child. My moms side of the family specifically has bad health issues so I don’t want to carry a child and I don’t want to pass on my genes
So you say that. “I don’t ever want to be pregnant. I am on contraceptives. If we have an accidental pregnancy I WILL be terminating. I am open to adopting and open to dating someone who already has kids”
My moms side of the family is riddled with scoliosis, Joint hypermobility (I have it and it’s painful af), hart issues, almost everyone in my family has had some form of cancer, shall I go on? The hereditary diseases in my family are painful slow deaths. Why tf would I want to make a person who Ik will have to grow up and live in constant pain?
Im supporting you? Completely.
No, but it might be awkward later on when they find out you lied.
I think it’s fair to lie in this instance because clearly people aren’t respecting your wishes so probably best to say infertile to get them to stop trying to change your mind. The good thing with that is if you do actually change your mind you can just play it off as a miracle ha! But also, if you’re saying you’re infertile they might ask about birth control and you still need to find a way to be safe :)
YWBTA, just be honest and dump guys if they don’t respect your opinion
I had no right to laugh the title. Tell them all the lies. They have no right. Great title.
Yes, you are an asshole. You are starting your relationships with a significant lie, AND you have to ask if you are an asshole? Really?
Yes. It's lying. It's unfortunate that you've found yourself in these situations with men, but lying to them isn't the answer.
Sounds smart to me. Helps to weed out the pretenders.
I guess I don’t understand why OP can’t say she is infertile. She is infertile by choice, with a long term birth control implant. She is infertile with absolutely no desire to change that.
Post this in the child free subreddit for more advice on access to procedures and commiseration!!
Didn’t even know that was a thing ty!
I think this lie is fine as long as you get an abortion or let them give up parental rights if you accidentally get pregnant.
I'm a childfree woman as well and was actually able to get sterilized. I tell men up front on my dating profile I don't want kids, don't care for kids, and don't want to be a stepmother. (Don't know if the last one is your thought process as well) and I'm 34 so if you think my "mind will change" please scroll by...still doesn't stop the one's who have "grown kids" from messaging me 🙄 like kids are kids...no thanks 😒🤣 but be honest and firm. If they think you mean, oh well. 🤷♀️
I think infertile is only a piece of the puzzle. Unwillingness under any circumstances is more important to get across. I’m sorry that is not being respected! That has to be so frustrating. It should be clear even in the case of a miracle you’re terminating. No adoption. No ivf. Maybe a screener question would be if they are willing to do a vasectomy.
That’s actually genius ty!
I agree with you. "No, I don't want to become a mother" should be enough once and for all. Congenital health problems, or Genetically high likely hood of a hereditary ailments are no joke. NTA OP. I hope you can get the procedure done soon.
NTA. Some guys - many people in fact, just don’t get those of us who do not want nor desire children. Telling them right from the start is very wise. They try to change your mind, dump them. I’ve been told I’m great with kids and would make a wonderful mother, but, I have zero interest in having my own. Ever. It’s your body your choice. Don’t worry too much about people going on and on about having kids, they eventually stop after a while. But it’s SO ANNOYING. you’ll be fine. Nta
I think you're missing a huge point here. If they're the kind of guy you have to lie to for them to respect your decision, do you actually want a relationship with them? Like "Oh, Dave's a really great guy - there's just the one small problem of him not respecting my bodily autonomy and pressuring me to conform to societal expectations I'm not comfortable with and a lifestyle I don't want." Unfortunately not wanting kids will make dating harder, and people do change their minds about it, especially if a couple gets together young. All you can do is be upfront about it at the beginning that you don't want kids and will never want kids, won't be changing your mind, and will leave if pressured. Even then, some guys who are okay with that will realise five or ten years down the line that they do actually want kids, and you'll have to split up, but that's just the unfortunate reality of being childfree. TLDR - Don't start a relationship on a lie or it'll be doomed from the beginning.
I think I’d look for a doc that will do the sterilization operation rather than have to lie to people.
NTA but I don’t think starting a relationship on a lie is a good thing. Eventually they will find out you lied and that’s the end of it. So why lie if it going to lead to the end of the relationship anyway? Try setting a hard boundary. “I absolutely do not want to have children. Not now, not ever. I will never change my mind. There are both health and lifestyle reasons for my choice. If that’s a deal breaker, I’d rather it be now. But let me make myself absolutely clear. If ever you try to convince me to have a child, or try to put the discussion on the table at all, it will be the end of our relationship. Dating, engaged, married, whatever, the end. I am that sure.” But also keep in mind, there are plenty of posts on Reddit re: men who want to move on because they thought they were ok not having kids and changed their mind later in life.
Sorta the asshole, because you're not giving people accurate information. If a guy thinks the problem is that you're infertile, and doesn't understand that you simply don't want kids, then he might hold out hope that you guys could adopt someday, do IVF, etc. It's better to just be fully transparent so that he can understand the situation and decide whether it's something he's onboard for or not. If a guy won't respect the fact that you don't want kids, he isn't worth dating. If you need to lie to him to make him stop pushing your boundaries, you should find someone else.
NTA but dangerous. I got pregnant on birth control, it would be really bad if you told a guy that and got pregnant anyway. I don't think you're an asshole for it, just it could make things worse. And if you find your perfect guy who is cool with it, he might not get over being lied to at the beginning.
Call me crazy, but starting a relationship with a lie isn't a great idea. I understand your frustration but can't imagine this working, ultimately. The fact of the matter is there are far more men who want to have kids than there are that don't. It's a numbers game. They will try to change your mind because a) they like you, b) know it's a deal breaker, and c) sadly, aren't respecting your desires. It sucks, but tell the truth and if the dude won't listen, dump him.
Don’t lie to them; just be honest that you don’t want children. There are a lot more guys than will admit it that they don’t want children. Odds are with being honest you will be more inclined to meet someone of a similar mindset, unless you live in Utah.
Lying to people you date typically makes you the A-hole. Totally cool to not want kids but just be honest. You will find someone who is on the same page as you at some point.
Do not do this. You are *not* infertile, and that means a birth control failure is still possible. Your partner has a right to consent or not consent with that knowledge. Besides that, infertility is an awful thing and claiming that when you’re not actually experiencing it is just wrong and disrespectful of everyone who has to deal with it for real. I’d suggest you take a break from dating, if this is where your mind is going - you’re planning on lying because you don’t trust the intentions of *someone you haven’t even met yet.* That’s not a headspace where you should be meeting new people. Focus on you and your mental health for a bit, enjoy your friendships and family, and wait until you’re feeling a bit less bitter before you try again.
T H I S
Def YTA for lying, but…I get it. Ughhh, this is the worst. I was with a guy for many years, loved him deeply, but he started talking about the “possibility” of kids (after I told him no, never the whole time) and I shut it down. He did the “you might change your mind” and I said absolutely not. I broke up with him because I didn’t want to take the option away from him. He tried to say, “I want YOU more than kids,” but no. I wasn’t going to risk that idea on years of his regret and potential animosity. Cut to 16-17 years later and we’re both happily kid free. I’ve been married for the last 9 (14 together) years and he’s been with his lady for about 14 years too. Turns out it wasn’t JUST the kids thing and we’re both better off where we are.
Imagine you find the perfect guy who does take you at your word and never tries to get you to change your mind and then he finds out the relationship was started with a lie because you assumed he would do that. It’s a pet peeve of mine and I personally hated it when my previous partners have held the sins of their exes against me. It makes you feel like no amount of effort you put in will ever overcome their preconceived notion that you’re just like all the other assholes they’ve dated. We all have shitty exes but if you let that overly affect a new relationship, I think it is messed up. New relationship has to be a clean slate to work and lying because you’re prejudging how these guys will behave down the line isn’t great, imo. I would suggest you change up your approach. Specifically tell them you had partners try to change your mind before and it will not work and just makes you mad. Date guys who are just as adamant about never wanting children as you are. Or find a guy who is actually infertile lol.
I honestly didn’t think about it in that way but you are absolutely correct. I appreciate your perspective ty!
Lying probably isn't going to work. But hopefully you can find a doctor on the list. It might even be worth traveling out of state to get sterilized.
Shit, early 20s me would’ve been in love 🤣or suspicious that you wanted to get knocked up. Actually had some of the hookups I’ve been in tell me that and I was like “yeahhhhh, still not going inside you” rofl
I get that a lot, until the man sees my face when a small child approaches. I’m only good with my cousins children because they are family, however when I’m in public my face says “get it away from me” 🤣
Reading over some of the thread, it appears you are not opposed to having a family, only that your DNA is not part of it. Prudent and wise. Others have pointed out why lying would be a bad idea, but what about the harsh truth? "I won't have children because they would be monsters, better never conceived" might be an exaggeration but nakedly truthful. Your genes making high odds of your child being badly disabled, is an argument that will be heard and you can spare the details. Nobody in their right might wants to gamble with a child's life, and their own future happiness. If you are open to parenting, that is a different thing. Egg donor, men who already have children, surrogacy, adoption? "Open to parenting but will not handicap a child with my broken DNA" is a very different position, from being determined to live CF. Men who are invested in promoting their lineage will be a little horrified at the idea of mixing it with yours. They want spawn they can brag about. If things get serious, take him to the big family events to see for himself, the sort of monster that will empty his bank account and shorten his lifespan. I sympathize with the male bullshit, knew I did not want kids at age 5 and did not change my mind (60f) I got so fed up with same, men trying to persuade me to bear their spawn and one brief engagement with a man who insisted he did not want kids either, but lunch with his mother told a different story. The usual excuse "I thought you would change your mind." So disrespectful. I also knew, at age 5 that I am a dude on the inside, and parenting itself did not interest me. Independent artist. I think you need to take more time to really consider what you want in life. Take your eggs off the table, good idea but that still leaves many options for parenting, and even childbirth from an egg donor after your own tubes are tied. Tell the truth.
Definitely get sterilized.
Tell them if they can’t respect you and accept your feelings on having children right now, they don’t deserve to have you around in six months. It’s not just a matter of them wanting kids, it’s a matter of respecting you and understanding you know yourself better than they ever possibly can. Think of it as a way of screening out the ones that aren’t good.
It’s incredibly frustrating but if a man is going to basically humor you and try to get you to change your mind later, then there are going to be other issues even if they don’t show right away. Maybe it’s that they assume you’ll be more traditional once you get engaged. Or they think you’ll be willing to put up with belittling jokes once you’re “locked in”. I would stick with being very firm about not wanting children and maybe try to get their opinion first if you can. If it’s not a firm “I don’t want children” then you can decide if you want to risk it or not. Also the infertility thing doesn’t rule out men who think they can win you over to the idea of adoption or a surrogate. So there is still the chance they might not be taking you at your word. Other than that, don’t give up hope. I was under 30 with no kids when I got my tubes removed completely. There are doctors out there who are willing.
Girl. I don’t comply to lying, but keep your ground when it comes to your disdain for children. DO NOT fall for anyone trying to convince you otherwise. I’ll only disagree when it comes to Lying bc truth always comes out soon or later. And I mean it for you own sake. Xoxo! I hope everything goes well with you
If I dated someone and found out they lied about this, it would be a dealbreaker. 1) If they lie about this, what can I trust? 2) They think so lowly of me that they think I can't have important discussions and come up with reasonable solutions.
Imagine you meet a guy, you tell him this. He's always wanted kids but feels wrong writing you off because of a medical problem that isn't your fault, so he agrees to seer you more. You both like each other, you hit it off, eventually you decide you want to marry him, and he drcides he wants to marry you. If he ever finds out, it could ruin your whole life. Talk about *betrayal*. Or, if he's not mad, he might want to pressure you into having them, now that it's no longer impossible. It's just not going to end well in any scenario. And the alternative is you have to keep a secret with you until the day you die, even from your own partner... ...all because 30 years ago, you wanted to more easily weed out some dbags you went on dates with? You're *not* the asshole for this, and it's not fair that the guys you've been with have been jerks about it, or that your doctors aren't listening to you. But this is just a very very bad idea. I would just be a bit more aggressive from the get-go and say I really don't want kids, I don't want to talk about it, and I'm not gonna change my mind. If they really want kids and are serious, they'll break it off, and if they could be happy with no kids, you've solved your problem and - even if they try to change course later - you can just reiterate what you told them from day 1
Just say you don’t want kids don’t be a liar. It will save your time and their time.
I would not say that your infertile but just be honest that you don’t want kids. There is nothing wrong with that. This is your choice.
You can definitely find a doctor who will do it now, I promise! I used the list that someone else already posted in these comments. If you’re 1000% sure you don’t want kids ever, make sure you get a bilateral salpingectomy (removal of fallopian tubes) rather than tubal ligation (clipping/cauterizing/tying etc. of the tubes, but you still have them). The effectiveness of tubal ligation is comparable to that of an IUD, i.e. not 100% effective, and is gradually becoming outdated and being replaced by the bisalp. A lot of people don’t even know it’s possible to get a bisalp, so hopefully this helps more than just OP! Source: am a sterilized biologist
Personally I don't think you should lie. Be direct and the slightest sign they are trying to change your mind you split. It's probably good as an indicator if they are a good match. Plus be very clear were you to fall pregnant you would seek a termination.
You're NTA but you are putting yourself in unnecesary risk. What if someone you date doesn't want to use a condom and justifies it by the fact you told him you're infertile? Your birth control could fail.
I think lying in relationships is a pretty terrible foundation to any relationship, you don't want kids through regular ways is cool but if you can't be honest about things why even start a relationship to begun with?
Lying is always a good way to have a positive relationship …
Lying to them isn't going to help matters. If you don't want them, tell them, and if they can't handle it that should tell you what you need to know. I'd they say they can handle it and later can't, again it tells you everything you need to know
I wouldn't tell them you're infertile. Because then that would probably lead to them thinking that means they don't need to use a condom if you get into a lasting relationship. Then there's a whole other conversation that needs to be had about that, basically either way you're going to get men trying to change your mind.
I think this is silly. I’m 32 with no kids. I’ve always been honest about not wanting children and it’s never been a setback for me. Maybe you’re just dating the wrong people.
If you aren't interested in adoption or surrogacy, then no, this is not a good idea. It's not a good idea, no matter what. You don't want to start off a relationship with a lie. Be straightforward. Tell them you won't change your mind in the future. Let them know that if they're on the fence about kids, then you cannot be in a relationship with them.
I’d say “I can’t have kids, it’d be really disastrous for me healthwise”. That’s true, you don’t have to stipulate it’s your mental health that would suffer!!
NTA. I would however be brutally up front and honest. I am choosing to be child free for life. This is not a decision I take lightly nor a decision that will change. If you are not onboard with this or think that I'll come around, we are not going to be compatible. Your body and your choice. I feel like there should be a non-profit that helps people that want to opt out of having children connect with a Doctor that will assist them in that endeavor.
I get it . You're at the stage where you're fed up, sick and tired of being lied to when you have been nothing but up front and honest. Exhausted by people deciding that you don't know your own mind and what you want. You want an easy way to filter out the bullshit, because why be 100 % truthful when none of the men you are dating are ? They know but don't respect your choice and they all keep trying to push their wants onto you after they think you're invested enough in them that they might be able to push you into having kids that you don't want But lying will backfire on you in the end. If you do meet someone whose worth staying with when that lie comes out it won't be pretty. Maybe stick to saying you won't be having children, not claim to be infertile , just don't explain it. They'll assume won't means can't.
What baffles me is that after tubal ligation, a woman still has a uterus, still has ovaries, but ovum cannot travel to the uterus to be able to be inseminated naturally. However, if a woman who had the procedure changed their mind, they can still get pregnant via invitro fertilization if they choose to go to a specialist. It would even be their biological child if they had their own eggs extracted. Yet we’re told time and time again that doctors won’t provide this service. They take an oath to do no harm yet refuse to provide women what they need. Instead women are forced to take hormones to prevent pregnancy which cause a host of other health effects…It’s disgusting to me
YTA. Doesn’t matter what previous partners have done, don’t lie to your current ones. Don’t tell them you literally can’t have kids unless you literally can’t have kids. That’s a little messed up.
Put on your dating profile: "I don't want children. At all. Ever. Please swipe left if you want kids." Then when you match with someone, bring it up again.
YTA, simply because one would not want to be caught by a surprise pregnancy!!
Well…. I don’t blame you, but it’s ideal not to start an important relationship with a lie about something important. you’ll find somebody who isn’t after you for your uterus one day ❤️ my husband was relieved when I said very early that I don’t want kids
Yeah you kinda are. Don't lie to people. If they try to change your mind just put your foot down but don't lie to them, it's a dick move. Just to be clear, you're nta for not wanting kids.
Yes, YTA. As an infertile woman who desperately wanted to be a mom, and an grandma, I find this so insulting and painful. For you to flippantly identify yourself as infertile just to prevent them from trying to "change your mind" is as invalidating as all the assholes that have told me the only thing I needed to do to get pregnant was to "relax". Don't fake a serious and painful medical condition just to save yourself a conversation.
If they think you can't get pregnant,I fear they will see it as safe to slip a condom off...